the-compact
Zoning Board Of Appeals Wednesday, August 12, 2026 · 206 min

Bloomfield Township Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting on August 11, 2026

Transcript

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  1. Good evening. It's 6.30. We'll get started by standing and saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So let's take attendance. So noted. Okay, so I need a motion to approve or amend the minutes from the July 14th meeting. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. The minutes are approved. Before I read the opening statement, I'd like to say that item 12 on the agenda, which is 78 Highland. That item has been postponed and will not be heard this evening. And then item three, which is 900 Timberlake Road. The applicant is not here yet. And we're going to move that to the end of the agenda. Is there anyone here that wants to speak on that one? Item three. Okay, so we'll take care of that with a motion that's later. So why don't we get the... What is the end of the agenda? Thank you. Thank you. So as a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees per the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium. Address your comments to the Board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief.

  2. And we're going to move that to the end of the agenda. Is there anyone here that wants to speak on that one? Item three. Okay, so we'll take care of that with a motion that's later. So why don't we get the... What is the end of the agenda? Thank you. Thank you. So as a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees per the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium. Address your comments to the Board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the Board. But those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the Board. For a request to be successful tonight, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. And so with that we'll call the first item, item 1P5155 Kings Gateway. Is the applicant ready? Ah yeah, so please introduce yourself, give your name and address at the podium. Good afternoon, good evening. Good evening. I am Mark Satawa, one of the homeowners. My wife is laid up just having ankle surgery so I'm here for both of us. And I am the co-owner of 5155 Kings Gateway. So did you just want to review what you're asking for? Well I mean I'm cognizant of

  3. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the Board. But those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the Board. For a request to be successful tonight, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. And so with that we'll call the first item, item 1P5155 Kings Gateway. Is the applicant ready? Ah yeah, so please introduce yourself, give your name and address at the podium. Good afternoon, good evening. Good evening. I am Mark Satawa, one of the homeowners. My wife is laid up just having ankle surgery so I'm here for both of us. And I am the co-owner of 5155 Kings Gateway. So did you just want to review what you're asking for? Well I mean I'm cognizant of the instructions of the busy agenda. I mean I tried to include everything in my application, particularly the supplemental letter that I included. This invisible fence is now over 16 years old. The oldest dog we have is almost nine. Our second dog is almost seven. They've been living with the fence for nine and seven years. We've had no incidents at all. Obviously it's an invisible fence so there's not a visual or structural. Well you variance needed it's just a question of we don't comply with the setbacks and the the front yard portion of the ordinance when we first got our first dog in 2010 we went to invisible fence at the time it was a franchisee we went to them because they were the leader in the industry we were assured by the representative that they would take care of any and all zoning issues ordinance issues compliance etc as busy people we didn't want to get into that minutiae

  4. Gateway. So did you just want to review what you're asking for? Well I mean I'm cognizant of the instructions of the busy agenda. I mean I tried to include everything in my application, particularly the supplemental letter that I included. This invisible fence is now over 16 years old. The oldest dog we have is almost nine. Our second dog is almost seven. They've been living with the fence for nine and seven years. We've had no incidents at all. Obviously it's an invisible fence so there's not a visual or structural. Well you variance needed it's just a question of we don't comply with the setbacks and the the front yard portion of the ordinance when we first got our first dog in 2010 we went to invisible fence at the time it was a franchisee we went to them because they were the leader in the industry we were assured by the representative that they would take care of any and all zoning issues ordinance issues compliance etc as busy people we didn't want to get into that minutiae they installed the visible fence our dogs have been trained on it the when I called them when I got this initial letter saying that we didn't comply of course you can imagine I was a little bit annoyed so I called invisible fence and they basically punted saying like well yeah this was a big problem it was a franchisee at the time they screwed up a lot of stuff so we fired them bought the franchisee back and now it's a corporate store had you done it now we would have done all of that but back then it was an independent franchisee who was making a lot of mistakes so of course my two our dogs don't necessarily understand that there is you know they would have to be retrained that the equipment is now 16 years old so I would have to basically rip it all out reinstall all of it which would also create an issue because the dogs have to get used to not only new correction but new barriers or a new footprint you know we you know I don't really know what else to say if anyone has any questions I'm happy to answer them

  5. issues compliance etc as busy people we didn't want to get into that minutiae they installed the visible fence our dogs have been trained on it the when I called them when I got this initial letter saying that we didn't comply of course you can imagine I was a little bit annoyed so I called invisible fence and they basically punted saying like well yeah this was a big problem it was a franchisee at the time they screwed up a lot of stuff so we fired them bought the franchisee back and now it's a corporate store had you done it now we would have done all of that but back then it was an independent franchisee who was making a lot of mistakes so of course my two our dogs don't necessarily understand that there is you know they would have to be retrained that the equipment is now 16 years old so I would have to basically rip it all out reinstall all of it which would also create an issue because the dogs have to get used to not only new correction but new barriers or a new footprint you know we you know I don't really know what else to say if anyone has any questions I'm happy to answer them that's a useful background thank you does anyone have any questions right now so I'm going to open this to the public is there anyone like to comment on this item okay so close public hearing bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion yeah I have to say I'm I'm I'm surprised that they're here before us after 16 years well I mean there is a thing called latches you know what I'm saying so we want to we received a complaint and then noticing that there had never been any previous approval yeah this I was not aware that had been out there for 16 years yeah I mean it's a long time to yeah that's a significant factor to me when I first looked at it because that's that's a bigger footprint that we typically would allow but for all you know you talk about now you got to pull the whole thing out your dogs are you

  6. know I don't really know what else to say if anyone has any questions I'm happy to answer them that's a useful background thank you does anyone have any questions right now so I'm going to open this to the public is there anyone like to comment on this item okay so close public hearing bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion yeah I have to say I'm I'm I'm surprised that they're here before us after 16 years well I mean there is a thing called latches you know what I'm saying so we want to we received a complaint and then noticing that there had never been any previous approval yeah this I was not aware that had been out there for 16 years yeah I mean it's a long time to yeah that's a significant factor to me when I first looked at it because that's that's a bigger footprint that we typically would allow but for all you know you talk about now you got to pull the whole thing out your dogs are you to it those are some other balancing factors that did you say you're a lawyer no no no no no I you you articulated a very nice position and I know mr. Gittleman my daughter graduated from with high school from yeah I know but I do have I do have a I do have an answer to your question it was a very kind of a weird and some somewhat interesting human interest story if you want to know why it got why the anonymous complaint happened I was sort of at the house when it happened I can answer the question if you're interested if you're not that's fine yeah okay all right so so I was driving home it was about four or five four four thirty in the afternoon my son was home he had let the dogs out and like a lot of 22 year olds you know was probably on his phone in the backyard like text you know doing whatever watching whatever it is they watch and um I was driving down the road and the dogs were so around the side of the house and there was somebody stopped in front of the house with their phone out very obviously videotaping them and I kind of looked at her and I kept pulling around and I pulled in I got out of the car I went into the front and she was like videotaping them because she was there for so long the dogs started barking

  7. to it those are some other balancing factors that did you say you're a lawyer no no no no no I you you articulated a very nice position and I know mr. Gittleman my daughter graduated from with high school from yeah I know but I do have I do have a I do have an answer to your question it was a very kind of a weird and some somewhat interesting human interest story if you want to know why it got why the anonymous complaint happened I was sort of at the house when it happened I can answer the question if you're interested if you're not that's fine yeah okay all right so so I was driving home it was about four or five four four thirty in the afternoon my son was home he had let the dogs out and like a lot of 22 year olds you know was probably on his phone in the backyard like text you know doing whatever watching whatever it is they watch and um I was driving down the road and the dogs were so around the side of the house and there was somebody stopped in front of the house with their phone out very obviously videotaping them and I kind of looked at her and I kept pulling around and I pulled in I got out of the car I went into the front and she was like videotaping them because she was there for so long the dogs started barking yeah and and so she called the animal control people um who was a very nice gentleman who said hey I need to make sure your dogs have had their rabies shots and that they're licensed I resolved that he's like you know by the way as a bonus gift you're gonna hear from the ZBA because I don't think your invisible fence complies with the with the ordinance he said understand I'm not trying to you know give you a hard time I'm obligated to do it and the animal control person then referred this to the ZBA so so we have an email from Mary and John Mills that is saying ask that the zoning ordinance be upheld as the dogs can be quite challenging for the neighbors as they walk by the house neighbors tend to avoid the street in case the dogs are out so that's it seems to be in conflict with the fact that like the time that you I will tell you that four of the houses in our area have dogs they will bark at each other including our the house at our neighbor they these dogs and our neighbors dogs tend to have a friend of me type relationship for whatever reason but there there are dogs all over our subdivision and people are walking up and down the street all

  8. front and she was like videotaping them because she was there for so long the dogs started barking yeah and and so she called the animal control people um who was a very nice gentleman who said hey I need to make sure your dogs have had their rabies shots and that they're licensed I resolved that he's like you know by the way as a bonus gift you're gonna hear from the ZBA because I don't think your invisible fence complies with the with the ordinance he said understand I'm not trying to you know give you a hard time I'm obligated to do it and the animal control person then referred this to the ZBA so so we have an email from Mary and John Mills that is saying ask that the zoning ordinance be upheld as the dogs can be quite challenging for the neighbors as they walk by the house neighbors tend to avoid the street in case the dogs are out so that's it seems to be in conflict with the fact that like the time that you I will tell you that four of the houses in our area have dogs they will bark at each other including our the house at our neighbor they these dogs and our neighbors dogs tend to have a friend of me type relationship for whatever reason but there there are dogs all over our subdivision and people are walking up and down the street all the time including walking their dogs our dogs have never broken the invisible fence there's not been a single incident of our dogs breaking through the invisible vents to go after the dogs that are walking down the street with with their owners it's just there was one particular person I had never seen her before I can only presume she was a new neighbor I don't know that for sure and so you don't know Mary and John I do not okay but I can only assume that's the person probably was yeah okay we're getting a complete picture here so we're balancing a number of factors here I'm glad we have such an experienced and knowledgeable zoning board here that come up with the right motion being a dog owner myself I know that they love to get that each other as they're passing by so I don't see that as a threat to anybody if they're not leaving the property or anything like that I don't think that's a problem it has been in place for 16 years now so I think it's not necessary for us to ask them to redo

  9. dogs all over our subdivision and people are walking up and down the street all the time including walking their dogs our dogs have never broken the invisible fence there's not been a single incident of our dogs breaking through the invisible vents to go after the dogs that are walking down the street with with their owners it's just there was one particular person I had never seen her before I can only presume she was a new neighbor I don't know that for sure and so you don't know Mary and John I do not okay but I can only assume that's the person probably was yeah okay we're getting a complete picture here so we're balancing a number of factors here I'm glad we have such an experienced and knowledgeable zoning board here that come up with the right motion being a dog owner myself I know that they love to get that each other as they're passing by so I don't see that as a threat to anybody if they're not leaving the property or anything like that I don't think that's a problem it has been in place for 16 years now so I think it's not necessary for us to ask them to redo everything now so I may add to that if this was before this is a brand new one I would not be in favor of having a fence on the property line especially on the road yep so the fact that it has been here for 16 years he's right right there are some things there and it was outside his control but we can't change when new neighbors move in and don't feel comfortable or don't feel safe regardless of how great your dogs are new neighbors and neighbors turn over so I have a tough time with offense on the property line so that's where I'm at doesn't mean that it's not your fault bad contract are sometimes why we're here which is a frustrating thing I understand it's it's no on the one side it's encroaching 25 feet right well that's what the but it's it says also encroaching 25 feet in the required 25 foot is it different actually on the drawing then yeah okay when we were looking over the application there was some uncertainty as to what the exact setback was we

  10. it has been in place for 16 years now so I think it's not necessary for us to ask them to redo everything now so I may add to that if this was before this is a brand new one I would not be in favor of having a fence on the property line especially on the road yep so the fact that it has been here for 16 years he's right right there are some things there and it was outside his control but we can't change when new neighbors move in and don't feel comfortable or don't feel safe regardless of how great your dogs are new neighbors and neighbors turn over so I have a tough time with offense on the property line so that's where I'm at doesn't mean that it's not your fault bad contract are sometimes why we're here which is a frustrating thing I understand it's it's no on the one side it's encroaching 25 feet right well that's what the but it's it says also encroaching 25 feet in the required 25 foot is it different actually on the drawing then yeah okay when we were looking over the application there was some uncertainty as to what the exact setback was we clarified that after the notice went out so we just noticed it to the maximum okay because when I look at the notice it's different than that perfect so again so you are six feet off the property line is it six feet off the property line or six feet off the easement it's right on the easement on that on the side of the house it's right on the easement it's basically on the six foot easement which would be on the property right well no no no well it's it's six feet away from people that would be walking maybe that's another way to look at it if you're walking on Lake Crescent the dogs can't get any closer than six feet no they can't that that's not that's a house to the left of that is a house it's another house on King's Gateway I don't know why there's an easement I can only assume it's a utility easement I'm almost certain it's a utility easement okay that's not an easement for pedestrians the the closest the dogs can get is in the front yard on King's Gateway or the side side yard on Lake Crescent okay do you have any room moving just that one side back a little bit that's on Lake Crescent? So it doesn't feel like the dog is up against the road or it's six feet back? It's 26 feet. 26 feet back from the road. Yeah. I feel more comfortable with it now.

  11. application there was some uncertainty as to what the exact setback was we clarified that after the notice went out so we just noticed it to the maximum okay because when I look at the notice it's different than that perfect so again so you are six feet off the property line is it six feet off the property line or six feet off the easement it's right on the easement on that on the side of the house it's right on the easement it's basically on the six foot easement which would be on the property right well no no no well it's it's six feet away from people that would be walking maybe that's another way to look at it if you're walking on Lake Crescent the dogs can't get any closer than six feet no they can't that that's not that's a house to the left of that is a house it's another house on King's Gateway I don't know why there's an easement I can only assume it's a utility easement I'm almost certain it's a utility easement okay that's not an easement for pedestrians the the closest the dogs can get is in the front yard on King's Gateway or the side side yard on Lake Crescent okay do you have any room moving just that one side back a little bit that's on Lake Crescent? So it doesn't feel like the dog is up against the road or it's six feet back? It's 26 feet. 26 feet back from the road. Yeah. I feel more comfortable with it now. Yeah, it's far back. I mean, it's way far back. They can't get close to the road on either side. So one of our concerns is when dogs can run up right to the road or to the sidewalk or walking path is that it can jar people or scare people. Of course it can. So the fact that we can show that we are not right up to the road and there is a 26 foot buffer is a more compelling case. So I think we're ready for a motion. Would you agree? Someone? Sure. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Thank you. In regards to the appeal at, I'm going to go with the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 5155 Kings Gateway for the accessory structure, I move the request to be approved I'm going to say not as noticed but as presented. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the uses of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as we want to have invisible fences so it's not a visual barrier and it keeps his dogs in for safety for them and for his neighbors. Now for the dimensional variance, I'm going to list what what that is, not what was noticed. For the same address, 5155 Kingsgate. practices, if so, you're going to be able to And, Thank you.

  12. I feel more comfortable with it now. Yeah, it's far back. I mean, it's way far back. They can't get close to the road on either side. So one of our concerns is when dogs can run up right to the road or to the sidewalk or walking path is that it can jar people or scare people. Of course it can. So the fact that we can show that we are not right up to the road and there is a 26 foot buffer is a more compelling case. So I think we're ready for a motion. Would you agree? Someone? Sure. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Thank you. In regards to the appeal at, I'm going to go with the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 5155 Kings Gateway for the accessory structure, I move the request to be approved I'm going to say not as noticed but as presented. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the uses of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as we want to have invisible fences so it's not a visual barrier and it keeps his dogs in for safety for them and for his neighbors. Now for the dimensional variance, I'm going to list what what that is, not what was noticed. For the same address, 5155 Kingsgate. practices, if so, you're going to be able to And, Thank you. way for the setback variances. I move the variance to be approved as presented. Based on information presented, the effort did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance should let ordinance be unduly burdensome because this is 16 years old. We are already 26 feet off the closest property line as well as from both sides. So for pedestrian traffic, there is no justice to joining neighbors by the reason of it's been here for 16 years without a single complaint until recently. And again, we are 26 feet away from walking neighbors or pedestrians. And this is not self-created due to the fact that we had a bad contractor 16 years ago who didn't uphold his end of the bargain. Again, so the setback that we're having is a 21-foot variance on the first front yard. And then, can you tell me what the other one is, huh? 10 feet on the west. You can't see the south because the north is fine. So, 16-foot setbacks, that would be 9 feet? Yeah, so 9 feet on his, well, 10 feet. Right? 6 foot. So, 10 foot on the west. 19 on the east. I just don't know what the south is.

  13. way for the setback variances. I move the variance to be approved as presented. Based on information presented, the effort did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance should let ordinance be unduly burdensome because this is 16 years old. We are already 26 feet off the closest property line as well as from both sides. So for pedestrian traffic, there is no justice to joining neighbors by the reason of it's been here for 16 years without a single complaint until recently. And again, we are 26 feet away from walking neighbors or pedestrians. And this is not self-created due to the fact that we had a bad contractor 16 years ago who didn't uphold his end of the bargain. Again, so the setback that we're having is a 21-foot variance on the first front yard. And then, can you tell me what the other one is, huh? 10 feet on the west. You can't see the south because the north is fine. So, 16-foot setbacks, that would be 9 feet? Yeah, so 9 feet on his, well, 10 feet. Right? 6 foot. So, 10 foot on the west. 19 on the east. I just don't know what the south is. I think the south... because it's in the front yard correct okay so that's what's your question so they send that if the motion is approved all necessary permits must be made within five business days for the existing dog fence support I have a motion of support any discussion more than 25 feet it looks like it based on that if the scale is right that's our expert here all right I have a comment I won't be voting in favor I I understand that something even that close if it's impacting neighbors a dog rushing at you or you know barking at the other dogs I think we have an ordinance for a reason

  14. 6 foot. So, 10 foot on the west. 19 on the east. I just don't know what the south is. I think the south... because it's in the front yard correct okay so that's what's your question so they send that if the motion is approved all necessary permits must be made within five business days for the existing dog fence support I have a motion of support any discussion more than 25 feet it looks like it based on that if the scale is right that's our expert here all right I have a comment I won't be voting in favor I I understand that something even that close if it's impacting neighbors a dog rushing at you or you know barking at the other dogs I think we have an ordinance for a reason any other discussion because we've got a motion in a second so now we're going to be voting on the approval just just to recap so all those in favor say aye aye those opposed aye okay motion carries six to one no two it's a two five five to two and you know who the nays are O'Donnell and Meads. Okay. Congratulations. Your request is granted. This wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I have five days to get a permit then through the township. I'm glad you set the bar high for us. Five days then to get a permit through the township? Is that what I have to do? It's an ordinance permit just to verify that you've had approval and that it's located as you say. Okay. Thank you. So calling the next item, item 13350 Franklin. Is the applicant ready? Good evening. Good evening. I'm Calabat Engineering on behalf of the property owner, Saad and Christy Calabat. So we are seeking variance for encroachment into the 25-foot natural feature setback to do some landscape maintenance in connection with a lot of other landscaping maintenance that's happening around the site.

  15. or you know barking at the other dogs I think we have an ordinance for a reason any other discussion because we've got a motion in a second so now we're going to be voting on the approval just just to recap so all those in favor say aye aye those opposed aye okay motion carries six to one no two it's a two five five to two and you know who the nays are O'Donnell and Meads. Okay. Congratulations. Your request is granted. This wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it would be. I have five days to get a permit then through the township. I'm glad you set the bar high for us. Five days then to get a permit through the township? Is that what I have to do? It's an ordinance permit just to verify that you've had approval and that it's located as you say. Okay. Thank you. So calling the next item, item 13350 Franklin. Is the applicant ready? Good evening. Good evening. I'm Calabat Engineering on behalf of the property owner, Saad and Christy Calabat. So we are seeking variance for encroachment into the 25-foot natural feature setback to do some landscape maintenance in connection with a lot of other landscaping maintenance that's happening around the site. Clients recently purchased the home and are going through the process of interior renovation and facade renovation. They have permits on all the current construction activities. Also have a tree removal permit for a couple of trees that were removed in the front yard, which resulted in a replacement quantity of nine under that permit. The additional work that they're looking to do is to clean up the side yards and the back of the property from basically overgrown bushes, shrubs, weed, undergrowth, things like that, that are permitted to do under the natural course of maintaining your property. The final changing clinic of the site is to be, I said, yes, it does not change in the acquiesce, but it's not changing. Thank you. As they get along the sides of the property, as it approaches to the water's edge, they like to continue that work up towards the water's edge so that they can clean up and you don't have a nice clean side yards and then just a 25-foot section of overgrown shrubs and weeds that are not maintained. So we included several pictures of the work in the area that they're looking to tackle. Again, removal of weeds and undercutting of brush material and then trimming. There's some trimming of hedges along the waterfront so that they can enjoy the view of the lake as well

  16. So we are seeking variance for encroachment into the 25-foot natural feature setback to do some landscape maintenance in connection with a lot of other landscaping maintenance that's happening around the site. Clients recently purchased the home and are going through the process of interior renovation and facade renovation. They have permits on all the current construction activities. Also have a tree removal permit for a couple of trees that were removed in the front yard, which resulted in a replacement quantity of nine under that permit. The additional work that they're looking to do is to clean up the side yards and the back of the property from basically overgrown bushes, shrubs, weed, undergrowth, things like that, that are permitted to do under the natural course of maintaining your property. The final changing clinic of the site is to be, I said, yes, it does not change in the acquiesce, but it's not changing. Thank you. As they get along the sides of the property, as it approaches to the water's edge, they like to continue that work up towards the water's edge so that they can clean up and you don't have a nice clean side yards and then just a 25-foot section of overgrown shrubs and weeds that are not maintained. So we included several pictures of the work in the area that they're looking to tackle. Again, removal of weeds and undercutting of brush material and then trimming. There's some trimming of hedges along the waterfront so that they can enjoy the view of the lake as well because those shrubs had not been hedged at all, it seems like. Really here to answer any other questions that you guys have. How long do you think you'll be working in the natural feature setback to get all this done? About a day, not even. That's interesting. This is what I'm confused about. I understand cleaning it up. You're not just pulling it all out and putting grass, are you? So the grass goes all the way up to the water? The grass currently goes up to an existing rip-wrap boulder, like seawall, boulder wall, seawall. So there's boulders in. And most of this is growing in between all the boulders. So it's pulling them out and just cleaning up the boulders. So there will be no, there's a little bit of areas, there's a couple areas where there's some dead plants. material there's like a dead weed tree on the one side we have a picture of when that gets pulled out there will be roots that'll come out with it so there'll be some disturbance to the soil so that area will be restored where it's grass seeded all around it but otherwise we're basically only

  17. There's some trimming of hedges along the waterfront so that they can enjoy the view of the lake as well because those shrubs had not been hedged at all, it seems like. Really here to answer any other questions that you guys have. How long do you think you'll be working in the natural feature setback to get all this done? About a day, not even. That's interesting. This is what I'm confused about. I understand cleaning it up. You're not just pulling it all out and putting grass, are you? So the grass goes all the way up to the water? The grass currently goes up to an existing rip-wrap boulder, like seawall, boulder wall, seawall. So there's boulders in. And most of this is growing in between all the boulders. So it's pulling them out and just cleaning up the boulders. So there will be no, there's a little bit of areas, there's a couple areas where there's some dead plants. material there's like a dead weed tree on the one side we have a picture of when that gets pulled out there will be roots that'll come out with it so there'll be some disturbance to the soil so that area will be restored where it's grass seeded all around it but otherwise we're basically only replacing and seeding the areas where there currently is as they get you know as some of these weeds are larger so they have larger roots as you uproot them they will disturb the soil around them so we want to put that back and seed it but as far as all the way up to the water's edge no that will not be the case because there's an existing riprap boulder wall there most of the cleanup work was is within that boulder area i mean is any of that vegetation wetlands vegetation or is it weeds i mean there's a difference in my mind whether we should have some restoration of some wetlands planting so that's i need further explanation from so it's it's a bit of a mix of both it's predominantly weeds um the areas i mean the unique character of that that waterfront which is different than a lot of the other properties on that lake is that it doesn't have a iron seawall as you look at all the other waterfront properties on that lake they've got pretty much a steel seawall and so their grass vegetation comes right up to that seawall there's not really a uh a defined wetland it's um uh it's you'd be if you get into the water's edge you're you're dealing you you you

  18. that area will be restored where it's grass seeded all around it but otherwise we're basically only replacing and seeding the areas where there currently is as they get you know as some of these weeds are larger so they have larger roots as you uproot them they will disturb the soil around them so we want to put that back and seed it but as far as all the way up to the water's edge no that will not be the case because there's an existing riprap boulder wall there most of the cleanup work was is within that boulder area i mean is any of that vegetation wetlands vegetation or is it weeds i mean there's a difference in my mind whether we should have some restoration of some wetlands planting so that's i need further explanation from so it's it's a bit of a mix of both it's predominantly weeds um the areas i mean the unique character of that that waterfront which is different than a lot of the other properties on that lake is that it doesn't have a iron seawall as you look at all the other waterfront properties on that lake they've got pretty much a steel seawall and so their grass vegetation comes right up to that seawall there's not really a uh a defined wetland it's um uh it's you'd be if you get into the water's edge you're you're dealing you you you with inland lakes and streams which we're not doing we're staying out of the water's edge so we're just cleaning up the weed material that's in the boulders there to provide you know better visibility and access to the lake so on this drawing that we're looking at the areas you're talking about are the two yellow ones there's two different sections no there's three there's three areas there's the two yellow ones which is mostly brush material along the side property line and that's just clearing of the brush and small you know buckthorn and other things that are growing kind of invasively in that area we're doing that work along the entire side so if you notice the green areas on both sides that work is all being done along those sides so we're continuing that up all the way to the front the so that's on the two sides then along the actual waterfront there's that's where we have a lot of pictures that there's areas where there's weed materials growing up through the rocks there's several shrubs that are you know not hedged not even that need to be cleaned and hedged and then there's a pretty dead large weed tree on the one side that needs to be uprooted and pulled out so your photo that says view to the rear to west it's quite tall along there

  19. with inland lakes and streams which we're not doing we're staying out of the water's edge so we're just cleaning up the weed material that's in the boulders there to provide you know better visibility and access to the lake so on this drawing that we're looking at the areas you're talking about are the two yellow ones there's two different sections no there's three there's three areas there's the two yellow ones which is mostly brush material along the side property line and that's just clearing of the brush and small you know buckthorn and other things that are growing kind of invasively in that area we're doing that work along the entire side so if you notice the green areas on both sides that work is all being done along those sides so we're continuing that up all the way to the front the so that's on the two sides then along the actual waterfront there's that's where we have a lot of pictures that there's areas where there's weed materials growing up through the rocks there's several shrubs that are you know not hedged not even that need to be cleaned and hedged and then there's a pretty dead large weed tree on the one side that needs to be uprooted and pulled out so your photo that says view to the rear to west it's quite tall along there you're talking about taking all of that out which one is that I don't think we can flip through that would be depends on the screens that we have so yeah that one oh back 12 o'clock Here on the bottom right, is that the water's edge? Yes, that is. Most of that material, there's shrubs that are, you can see there's a shrub there on the right, one kind of in the center there, and another set of shrubs to the left that are all getting choked out. So those are going to be hedged and trimmed, and the weed material around them is going to be pulled and removed. Got it. What's going to be put in its place? Nothing. Once it's removed? Nothing. There's boulder riprap rock there, which will stay. So we'll just be cleaning up that existing and exposing it. So it'll be lawn? No. The lawn comes up to a boulder riprap seawall. So it's large rocks. These plant materials are growing up in between the rocks. So we're pulling them out and exposing the rocks. We are not placing any new material in that area or along the water's edge. So just along the sides where you're taking those shrubs out, you'll be planting grass.

  20. out so your photo that says view to the rear to west it's quite tall along there you're talking about taking all of that out which one is that I don't think we can flip through that would be depends on the screens that we have so yeah that one oh back 12 o'clock Here on the bottom right, is that the water's edge? Yes, that is. Most of that material, there's shrubs that are, you can see there's a shrub there on the right, one kind of in the center there, and another set of shrubs to the left that are all getting choked out. So those are going to be hedged and trimmed, and the weed material around them is going to be pulled and removed. Got it. What's going to be put in its place? Nothing. Once it's removed? Nothing. There's boulder riprap rock there, which will stay. So we'll just be cleaning up that existing and exposing it. So it'll be lawn? No. The lawn comes up to a boulder riprap seawall. So it's large rocks. These plant materials are growing up in between the rocks. So we're pulling them out and exposing the rocks. We are not placing any new material in that area or along the water's edge. So just along the sides where you're taking those shrubs out, you'll be planting grass. Yeah, in areas where it's just started. In the yellow areas. So nothing is going to be removed between the rocks and the water's edge? Correct. Everything is. But that, the picture I'm looking at those wreaths. The water's edge, nothing will be removed along the water's edge. I'm going to clarify it that way. Nothing will be removed along the water's edge. It will all be. At the water. But all that stuff is right up to the boulders. So that stuff is in the boulders. It's in the boulders. So those wreaths are those type of plant material. That's the water's edge. I see. i see yeah i think we're still not getting the right answer so the wreath that i see right there all the tall non-shrubs are being removed yes because those are in between the rocks correct when you remove all those things you're going to get to clear water is that correct when you remove them you will have clean rocks and then water yes no plant material correct right so the rocks the rocks go right up to the water's edge correct they are what all replacing the metal sea wall there is no sea wall along this and this is the rocks and this does not require eagles approval correct because we're not getting into the water and you already had them review that and give you that yeah do you have a letter from them saying that i don't they i know sometimes they'll give you a letter or an email stating that like we reviewed your case you're good we didn't we

  21. you'll be planting grass. Yeah, in areas where it's just started. In the yellow areas. So nothing is going to be removed between the rocks and the water's edge? Correct. Everything is. But that, the picture I'm looking at those wreaths. The water's edge, nothing will be removed along the water's edge. I'm going to clarify it that way. Nothing will be removed along the water's edge. It will all be. At the water. But all that stuff is right up to the boulders. So that stuff is in the boulders. It's in the boulders. So those wreaths are those type of plant material. That's the water's edge. I see. i see yeah i think we're still not getting the right answer so the wreath that i see right there all the tall non-shrubs are being removed yes because those are in between the rocks correct when you remove all those things you're going to get to clear water is that correct when you remove them you will have clean rocks and then water yes no plant material correct right so the rocks the rocks go right up to the water's edge correct they are what all replacing the metal sea wall there is no sea wall along this and this is the rocks and this does not require eagles approval correct because we're not getting into the water and you already had them review that and give you that yeah do you have a letter from them saying that i don't they i know sometimes they'll give you a letter or an email stating that like we reviewed your case you're good we didn't we didn't get that far i we um knowing that we're not touching the water's edge we we we know we don't need it in the lakes and streams there's no identified wetlands there are you using equipment to do it are you doing it by hand by hand which i think is a delineation isn't it what's that isn't a bigger delineation for eagle eagle doesn't regulate anything uh up to the water's edge unless it's considered wetland unless it's considered wetland correct that's what i was trying to understand so you're saying none of this is regulated wetlands no it's not is that true we don't have anything that identifies it as a wetland in our system you can go into a natural features and remove down and trim it's when you disturb the soils just want to make that clarification that really requires the variance as well as the grass installation right yeah which that is happening predominantly on the sides on the two sides and then there's a there's a picture if you can flip to town of the there's kind of a tree keep going through I'll show you when you it

  22. you a letter or an email stating that like we reviewed your case you're good we didn't we didn't get that far i we um knowing that we're not touching the water's edge we we we know we don't need it in the lakes and streams there's no identified wetlands there are you using equipment to do it are you doing it by hand by hand which i think is a delineation isn't it what's that isn't a bigger delineation for eagle eagle doesn't regulate anything uh up to the water's edge unless it's considered wetland unless it's considered wetland correct that's what i was trying to understand so you're saying none of this is regulated wetlands no it's not is that true we don't have anything that identifies it as a wetland in our system you can go into a natural features and remove down and trim it's when you disturb the soils just want to make that clarification that really requires the variance as well as the grass installation right yeah which that is happening predominantly on the sides on the two sides and then there's a there's a picture if you can flip to town of the there's kind of a tree keep going through I'll show you when you it was on our our second sheet unless you don't okay there's a large weed tree essentially that's you know pretty dead that will need to come out that's kind of close to if you're looking at the water's edge close to the left side where it jets out so when that thing gets removed there's going to be some disturbance to the soil and then you're planning grass in its place there's grass all around the footprint of the tree correct okay yes we have any other questions I'll open this to the public and would like to comment on this close public hearing and this is this is unlike any other requests usually there's other things that are going in this is purely to clean up or there's a restoration yes there's a restoration plan that we see yep you know so we're just kind of relying on that he's just gonna pull stuff and it's it's not a regulated wetland yep well we will require a natural features setback permits yeah and under that permit we would verify that the action and the activity that he is stating is the only activity that's occurring so can we have

  23. town of the there's kind of a tree keep going through I'll show you when you it was on our our second sheet unless you don't okay there's a large weed tree essentially that's you know pretty dead that will need to come out that's kind of close to if you're looking at the water's edge close to the left side where it jets out so when that thing gets removed there's going to be some disturbance to the soil and then you're planning grass in its place there's grass all around the footprint of the tree correct okay yes we have any other questions I'll open this to the public and would like to comment on this close public hearing and this is this is unlike any other requests usually there's other things that are going in this is purely to clean up or there's a restoration yes there's a restoration plan that we see yep you know so we're just kind of relying on that he's just gonna pull stuff and it's it's not a regulated wetland yep well we will require a natural features setback permits yeah and under that permit we would verify that the action and the activity that he is stating is the only activity that's occurring so can we have a motion with that I think we can that would be great in regard to the appeal at 3350 Franklin Road for the dimensional variance request for work within the natural feature setback I move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the fact that what we're doing is simply removing any excess vegetation in the rocky area that is serving as the the metal see what would normally be the metal seawall there is no with justice to the injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the fact that this is not going to impact their view of the lake other than maybe increasing the view of their adjoining neighbors because now they they can actually see beyond these reads that are going up with

  24. activity that he is stating is the only activity that's occurring so can we have a motion with that I think we can that would be great in regard to the appeal at 3350 Franklin Road for the dimensional variance request for work within the natural feature setback I move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the fact that what we're doing is simply removing any excess vegetation in the rocky area that is serving as the the metal see what would normally be the metal seawall there is no with justice to the injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the fact that this is not going to impact their view of the lake other than maybe increasing the view of their adjoining neighbors because now they they can actually see beyond these reads that are going up with the rocks unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated uh given the fact that we don't have that metal seawall right now and we're relying on that that metal seawall the the the rock seawall that goes right up to the water's edge and it's not self-created due to the fact that you know they purchased the home you know in this particular condition and they're trying to improve it so if the motion is approved application for all necessary permits as noted must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to vegetation removal support i have a motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you board members have a great evening you're welcome calling item two two five two one norwood it's the applicant ready

  25. the rocks unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated uh given the fact that we don't have that metal seawall right now and we're relying on that that metal seawall the the the rock seawall that goes right up to the water's edge and it's not self-created due to the fact that you know they purchased the home you know in this particular condition and they're trying to improve it so if the motion is approved application for all necessary permits as noted must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to vegetation removal support i have a motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you board members have a great evening you're welcome calling item two two five two one norwood it's the applicant ready go ahead okay good evening my name is uh heisen thaba My wife and I, Dana, we live at 2521 Norwood Road with our four kids. from one and a half to ten years old. Thanks for taking time to hear our request. I'll try to be brief and address kind of each of the points here. We're requesting three variances related to our backyard project. The location of a spa, a six-foot privacy fence, and a location for pool equipment. Our property is unique because it's at a corner lot with two street frontages compared with a typical interior lot. Our backyard is much more exposed and the required setbacks leave significantly less usable space to design a safe and functional backyard. From the beginning our goal has been to create a backyard that is safe for our family while minimizing the impact on our neighbors. We work closely with our pool designer and builder to evaluate multiple layouts and the plan before you presents the minimal amount of relief necessary to accomplish that. So with the fence there's already substantial existing landscaping and mature trees surrounding majority of

  26. go ahead okay good evening my name is uh heisen thaba My wife and I, Dana, we live at 2521 Norwood Road with our four kids. from one and a half to ten years old. Thanks for taking time to hear our request. I'll try to be brief and address kind of each of the points here. We're requesting three variances related to our backyard project. The location of a spa, a six-foot privacy fence, and a location for pool equipment. Our property is unique because it's at a corner lot with two street frontages compared with a typical interior lot. Our backyard is much more exposed and the required setbacks leave significantly less usable space to design a safe and functional backyard. From the beginning our goal has been to create a backyard that is safe for our family while minimizing the impact on our neighbors. We work closely with our pool designer and builder to evaluate multiple layouts and the plan before you presents the minimal amount of relief necessary to accomplish that. So with the fence there's already substantial existing landscaping and mature trees surrounding majority of the portions of our property. Unfortunately especially along Square Lake Road storms, natural loss have created gaps in screening leaving much of our backyard visible from the main road where there's people walking by and you know a lot of traffic just coming through in that area that can see through portions of the natural landscaping that was there. no no We'll be right back. So with our four young kids, safety is our highest priority, and that's what we kept in mind when we created this plan. The roadway is very busy, and they're probably much busier than when the surrounding homes were built. The township recently conducted traffic monitoring, showing a substantial increase in traffic volume, and we've experienced drivers using this route as a cut-through to avoid congestion, especially from Hickory Grove and Telegraph through to Square Lake Road for access to I-75. The proposed six-foot fence provides an additional layer of separation between our family and the roadway while restoring the privacy that the landscaping no longer consistently provides. A four-foot fence was in consideration, but in certain areas wouldn't provide meaningful privacy or screening on a corner lot.

  27. already substantial existing landscaping and mature trees surrounding majority of the portions of our property. Unfortunately especially along Square Lake Road storms, natural loss have created gaps in screening leaving much of our backyard visible from the main road where there's people walking by and you know a lot of traffic just coming through in that area that can see through portions of the natural landscaping that was there. no no We'll be right back. So with our four young kids, safety is our highest priority, and that's what we kept in mind when we created this plan. The roadway is very busy, and they're probably much busier than when the surrounding homes were built. The township recently conducted traffic monitoring, showing a substantial increase in traffic volume, and we've experienced drivers using this route as a cut-through to avoid congestion, especially from Hickory Grove and Telegraph through to Square Lake Road for access to I-75. The proposed six-foot fence provides an additional layer of separation between our family and the roadway while restoring the privacy that the landscaping no longer consistently provides. A four-foot fence was in consideration, but in certain areas wouldn't provide meaningful privacy or screening on a corner lot. Based on the Planning Department's recommendations, we've incorporated a landscape screening plan that places evergreen plantings between the roadway and the proposed fence. Our goal is for the landscaping to become the primary visual feature over time, with the fence serving as a background element that provides privacy, safety, and screening. With the fence location, we intentionally moved the fence back from the property line to create room for a continuous evergreen planting buffer. This allows the landscaping to soften the appearance of the fence from the roadway while providing privacy for the family and additional screening for the pool equipment. I... What an argument possible that the 9th of Players is like, With regards to the spa, we carefully evaluated several locations for the spa. One side of the pool contains an automatic pool cover, so placing the spa there would interfere with its operation. The other side contains kind of a splash pad or a tanning ledge and would create, with the elevated spa, it creates a hazard with the kids potentially trying to jump off or play there. We also considered moving the spa closer to the house, but that would block important sight lines from the house and patio, making supervision for the kids a little more difficult.

  28. A four-foot fence was in consideration, but in certain areas wouldn't provide meaningful privacy or screening on a corner lot. Based on the Planning Department's recommendations, we've incorporated a landscape screening plan that places evergreen plantings between the roadway and the proposed fence. Our goal is for the landscaping to become the primary visual feature over time, with the fence serving as a background element that provides privacy, safety, and screening. With the fence location, we intentionally moved the fence back from the property line to create room for a continuous evergreen planting buffer. This allows the landscaping to soften the appearance of the fence from the roadway while providing privacy for the family and additional screening for the pool equipment. I... What an argument possible that the 9th of Players is like, With regards to the spa, we carefully evaluated several locations for the spa. One side of the pool contains an automatic pool cover, so placing the spa there would interfere with its operation. The other side contains kind of a splash pad or a tanning ledge and would create, with the elevated spa, it creates a hazard with the kids potentially trying to jump off or play there. We also considered moving the spa closer to the house, but that would block important sight lines from the house and patio, making supervision for the kids a little more difficult. And that's why we chose that as kind of the safest and most functional option while minimizing the requested variance. And finally, the pool equipment, the pool equipment has been located where it minimizes visibility and noise. It'll be screened by both the proposed fence as well as additional evergreen landscaping, so it'll have very little visual impact on neighboring properties. So with that said, throughout this process, every decision from the spa location to the fence and landscaping was made with two goals in mind, keeping the kids safe and minimizing the impact on our neighbors. We respectfully ask for your approval. Thank you. Thank you for that well-organized presentation. Do we have any questions from the board? I think you might want to clarify a discussion that you had with one of our staffers today about your intention to use the fence for pool, around the pool. Thank you very much. I think that it's helpful. yeah it's what do you mean like instead of a privacy fence what is your intention regarding the pool and the fence it's both i mean i mean really it's for it's for privacy but also as a barrier to the to the pool but it's it's it should be three feet additional three feet inside the

  29. sight lines from the house and patio, making supervision for the kids a little more difficult. And that's why we chose that as kind of the safest and most functional option while minimizing the requested variance. And finally, the pool equipment, the pool equipment has been located where it minimizes visibility and noise. It'll be screened by both the proposed fence as well as additional evergreen landscaping, so it'll have very little visual impact on neighboring properties. So with that said, throughout this process, every decision from the spa location to the fence and landscaping was made with two goals in mind, keeping the kids safe and minimizing the impact on our neighbors. We respectfully ask for your approval. Thank you. Thank you for that well-organized presentation. Do we have any questions from the board? I think you might want to clarify a discussion that you had with one of our staffers today about your intention to use the fence for pool, around the pool. Thank you very much. I think that it's helpful. yeah it's what do you mean like instead of a privacy fence what is your intention regarding the pool and the fence it's both i mean i mean really it's for it's for privacy but also as a barrier to the to the pool but it's it's it should be three feet additional three feet inside the the i think the line on there so there should we should be able to we're pushing it more forward to be able to plant evergreens on either side of the fence so on the neighboring side and our side so where are you proposing the fence still three feet the yellow line uh it's that's not that's a dated picture we should have a more updated one so it should be it'll be another three feet in from there so six feet in so six feet total yeah which would allow you to plant exactly and there there actually is existing evergreens already on the neighbor's side and our side but if there's any gaps we plan on filling the entire thing and because it's a pool fence yeah it just happens to be a six foot privacy exactly he's doing a twofer twofer and we know there's uh uh our our neighbors also have young children so we're very cognizant of that that aspect of it any other questions from the board

  30. barrier to the to the pool but it's it's it should be three feet additional three feet inside the the i think the line on there so there should we should be able to we're pushing it more forward to be able to plant evergreens on either side of the fence so on the neighboring side and our side so where are you proposing the fence still three feet the yellow line uh it's that's not that's a dated picture we should have a more updated one so it should be it'll be another three feet in from there so six feet in so six feet total yeah which would allow you to plant exactly and there there actually is existing evergreens already on the neighbor's side and our side but if there's any gaps we plan on filling the entire thing and because it's a pool fence yeah it just happens to be a six foot privacy exactly he's doing a twofer twofer and we know there's uh uh our our neighbors also have young children so we're very cognizant of that that aspect of it any other questions from the board So I'm going to open this to the public. Does anyone like to comment on this item? I'll close the public hearing and bring it back for further questions or a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Wait a minute. Do you have a question? No, I'm just going to make a motion. Go ahead. Okay. Okay. And with respect to the appeal at 2521 Norwood Road, I will do the permission request first. Move to approve the permission request as submitted for the spa and privacy fence accessory structures. As submitted, the submission complies with all the 42-7.6 standards because the accessory structure, the fence, and the spa have been located in the best possible spot in a very limited yard due to the two frontages. Because it is a use that is common in the neighborhood and will not hinder or discourage adjacent property use. As to the dimensional variance request for the spa, approaching eight feet into the 16-foot rear setback and six-foot high for the privacy fence on Square Lake Road, I move that also be approved.

  31. So I'm going to open this to the public. Does anyone like to comment on this item? I'll close the public hearing and bring it back for further questions or a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Wait a minute. Do you have a question? No, I'm just going to make a motion. Go ahead. Okay. Okay. And with respect to the appeal at 2521 Norwood Road, I will do the permission request first. Move to approve the permission request as submitted for the spa and privacy fence accessory structures. As submitted, the submission complies with all the 42-7.6 standards because the accessory structure, the fence, and the spa have been located in the best possible spot in a very limited yard due to the two frontages. Because it is a use that is common in the neighborhood and will not hinder or discourage adjacent property use. As to the dimensional variance request for the spa, approaching eight feet into the 16-foot rear setback and six-foot high for the privacy fence on Square Lake Road, I move that also be approved. approved as requested at the six feet height based on the information provided, the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty in compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to his location on Square Lake Road, the needs for safety and privacy from the traffic and from neighbor children and no injustice there to adjoining neighbors due to the fact that it really is a pool enclosure fence requiring the additional two feet. Should this motion be approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to installation the spot and privacy fence. The additional evergreen plantings that you're proposing and the infill spots will be required to completely screen the items from public view. Can I make one comment? You noted that some of the evergreens may be on your neighbor's

  32. As to the dimensional variance request for the spa, approaching eight feet into the 16-foot rear setback and six-foot high for the privacy fence on Square Lake Road, I move that also be approved. approved as requested at the six feet height based on the information provided, the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty in compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to his location on Square Lake Road, the needs for safety and privacy from the traffic and from neighbor children and no injustice there to adjoining neighbors due to the fact that it really is a pool enclosure fence requiring the additional two feet. Should this motion be approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to installation the spot and privacy fence. The additional evergreen plantings that you're proposing and the infill spots will be required to completely screen the items from public view. Can I make one comment? You noted that some of the evergreens may be on your neighbor's property, understand that you have to provide screening entirely along your property so even if they have one you've got to put one in. Absolutely, that's the point. Thank you. And another point of clarification of M.A. So as submitted said he was going to plan for the documents we had and we sent out to the public it says he's putting on the property line. What we see here says three feet, what he said was six feet. So I want to say that we are not going to do it as submitted it is as amended which would be a six ten foot encroachment six feet off the property line with plantings at exceeding the height of the fence at plantings minimum six feet so I just want to make sure because then we can help hold our people to that standard it'll be good for you are you okay with that I approve as amended and that's less than has been noticed so you guys jumped ahead so we have a motion and we have a second any further discussion so I just want to comment thank you for the precision with which we you know got that motion clarified and amended any other comments

  33. Can I make one comment? You noted that some of the evergreens may be on your neighbor's property, understand that you have to provide screening entirely along your property so even if they have one you've got to put one in. Absolutely, that's the point. Thank you. And another point of clarification of M.A. So as submitted said he was going to plan for the documents we had and we sent out to the public it says he's putting on the property line. What we see here says three feet, what he said was six feet. So I want to say that we are not going to do it as submitted it is as amended which would be a six ten foot encroachment six feet off the property line with plantings at exceeding the height of the fence at plantings minimum six feet so I just want to make sure because then we can help hold our people to that standard it'll be good for you are you okay with that I approve as amended and that's less than has been noticed so you guys jumped ahead so we have a motion and we have a second any further discussion so I just want to comment thank you for the precision with which we you know got that motion clarified and amended any other comments okay all those in favor aye aye any opposed congratulations your request as an end is approved thank you very much so item three is the applicant here oh well that's great great timing come on up yeah you don't need we didn't postpone because I thought maybe you would arrive hello board how are you guys so I am Sabrina Brown with Mosier design and I have the homeowner land for us with me today so we are here this evening seeking approval for two items first a dimensional variance to allow decorative landscape pierce and low wing walls within the required front yard and second permission to locate a proposed cedar pergola within the rear yard the decorative piers and wing walls have been designed very thoughtfully and tastefully to complement the architecture of the home and enhance the overall streetscape along the road as you are aware the features of this nature are extremely common throughout the township and we believe that we are proposing is very much in keeping with

  34. which we you know got that motion clarified and amended any other comments okay all those in favor aye aye any opposed congratulations your request as an end is approved thank you very much so item three is the applicant here oh well that's great great timing come on up yeah you don't need we didn't postpone because I thought maybe you would arrive hello board how are you guys so I am Sabrina Brown with Mosier design and I have the homeowner land for us with me today so we are here this evening seeking approval for two items first a dimensional variance to allow decorative landscape pierce and low wing walls within the required front yard and second permission to locate a proposed cedar pergola within the rear yard the decorative piers and wing walls have been designed very thoughtfully and tastefully to complement the architecture of the home and enhance the overall streetscape along the road as you are aware the features of this nature are extremely common throughout the township and we believe that we are proposing is very much in keeping with the character and quality of the surrounding community the piers and walls are modest in scale and are intended purely as architectural and landscape enhancements they will have no negative impact on adjacent properties visibility traffic or the use and enjoyment of neighboring homes they will also remain not illuminated in accordance with the ordinance requirements we believe the variance request satisfies the practical difficulty standards because the proposed improvements create no adverse impact while allowing the property to incorporate the same type of tasteful landscape and architectural features that are commonly found throughout the township the second request is for a permission to locate a proposed cedar pergola within the rear yard the pergola is located entirely in all required setbacks and is already very well screened by the dense evergreens that surround the property because of this existing screening and its compliant location the structure will not have any visual or other impacts on adjacent properties the pergola has also been designed to complement the architecture and overall landscape plan so that it feels like a natural and appropriate part of the property over Overall, we feel both requests represent well-designed, modest improvements that respect the surrounding properties and are consistent with the character of the Bloomfield Township. We respectfully ask for your support, and I would be happy to answer any questions. Thank you very much.

  35. the township and we believe that we are proposing is very much in keeping with the character and quality of the surrounding community the piers and walls are modest in scale and are intended purely as architectural and landscape enhancements they will have no negative impact on adjacent properties visibility traffic or the use and enjoyment of neighboring homes they will also remain not illuminated in accordance with the ordinance requirements we believe the variance request satisfies the practical difficulty standards because the proposed improvements create no adverse impact while allowing the property to incorporate the same type of tasteful landscape and architectural features that are commonly found throughout the township the second request is for a permission to locate a proposed cedar pergola within the rear yard the pergola is located entirely in all required setbacks and is already very well screened by the dense evergreens that surround the property because of this existing screening and its compliant location the structure will not have any visual or other impacts on adjacent properties the pergola has also been designed to complement the architecture and overall landscape plan so that it feels like a natural and appropriate part of the property over Overall, we feel both requests represent well-designed, modest improvements that respect the surrounding properties and are consistent with the character of the Bloomfield Township. We respectfully ask for your support, and I would be happy to answer any questions. Thank you very much. Any questions? So when I look online, when I look at some of the good aerial photos, some of that screening is still a little light. Did it get thick? It's grown a lot. We do have Green Giants throughout the whole property. It is a lot thicker. I can see some stuff through it, though. You can do a lot, and I just can't see it. So I can see through some of those areas, right? Yep. Is there a way for us to mitigate that? So within the limited space that we have, especially with the new support court, we are limited in the screening that we can locate specifically at that area. I think what you'd see now is, depending on when these pictures were taken, this is probably a couple weeks ago, but the height of these trees are about 12 to 14 feet tall. Their bases have fattened almost two feet since planting, and even by the end of the season, they're all going to be touching and kind of integrated. So we try to hold to the standard that I can't see it at planting. So whether it's a double row, a staggered row, and we try to hold people to that same standard. So before we go to the public, because we've got emails on this, I would love for an idea.

  36. Thank you very much. Any questions? So when I look online, when I look at some of the good aerial photos, some of that screening is still a little light. Did it get thick? It's grown a lot. We do have Green Giants throughout the whole property. It is a lot thicker. I can see some stuff through it, though. You can do a lot, and I just can't see it. So I can see through some of those areas, right? Yep. Is there a way for us to mitigate that? So within the limited space that we have, especially with the new support court, we are limited in the screening that we can locate specifically at that area. I think what you'd see now is, depending on when these pictures were taken, this is probably a couple weeks ago, but the height of these trees are about 12 to 14 feet tall. Their bases have fattened almost two feet since planting, and even by the end of the season, they're all going to be touching and kind of integrated. So we try to hold to the standard that I can't see it at planting. So whether it's a double row, a staggered row, and we try to hold people to that same standard. So before we go to the public, because we've got emails on this, I would love for an idea. of how we can mitigate that mm-hmm so I mean yeah we can absolutely do double evergreens obviously to ensure that at the time that this structure is built which will be a little bit down the road it is not getting installed immediately it is a little bit part of a phase two but we can ensure that obviously that screening is full from all views of the property because obviously there are is screening along the opposite side of the property and just and then just to be really clear on that point I know that Matt and the motion team they drew a beautiful pergola but just to kind of complement with what Sabrina said I don't intend to build this pergola for some time probably at least a couple of years but while we were putting your approvals only good for one year we yes we under we understand that we had submitted the request prior to some other discussion that's exactly right so when we had talked about it since we were putting in just the hard state component we mentioned that we might put in the footings to support something that could later be built but when Matt and Sabrina and team submitted the the request of course the design is on the page I know that's what ended up in the board's agenda it was but just for the purpose of dialogue between us this evening if the boards if the board's

  37. of how we can mitigate that mm-hmm so I mean yeah we can absolutely do double evergreens obviously to ensure that at the time that this structure is built which will be a little bit down the road it is not getting installed immediately it is a little bit part of a phase two but we can ensure that obviously that screening is full from all views of the property because obviously there are is screening along the opposite side of the property and just and then just to be really clear on that point I know that Matt and the motion team they drew a beautiful pergola but just to kind of complement with what Sabrina said I don't intend to build this pergola for some time probably at least a couple of years but while we were putting your approvals only good for one year we yes we under we understand that we had submitted the request prior to some other discussion that's exactly right so when we had talked about it since we were putting in just the hard state component we mentioned that we might put in the footings to support something that could later be built but when Matt and Sabrina and team submitted the the request of course the design is on the page I know that's what ended up in the board's agenda it was but just for the purpose of dialogue between us this evening if the boards if the board's position were that's too far out of a build to be accommodated by an exception or a variance that'd be granted this evening that's something that we could table entirely and just focus on the front peers I just want to be really clear if it's if that's not part of your process let's focus on the one that actually is. Yeah, it would seem to me if you're not going to build it within a year, just, you know, with a lot right now and come back. I'm absolutely fine with that. In fact, that's the clarification. Yes, absolutely. But then would you, if you're doing hardscape there, then you'd have to rip it up to do footings because you'd have to have the footings inspected for, right? I think that's right. I think you'd be taking up footings that are probably several feet by several feet wide. Because of the posts that would actually be supporting this thing are kind of actually smaller than what is visible because we would do probably six by six or eight by eight. We could, it's all dry laid pavers back there. So we pop up the paver. I just try to save some of your money when I'm going to spend it on these trees. For sure. Believe me, we talked about that from making sure it was modular enough and movable enough in the future if we wanted to do it, we could. Okay, just because when we do a planned phase, which is what she's trying to do, we want to think all approaches. So it's great that we're doing that. I appreciate the dialogue. Totally understand, thank you. With respect to the frontiers, their fieldstone, they're consistent with the neighborhood, which is primarily Tudor, ranches, colonials.

  38. purpose of dialogue between us this evening if the boards if the board's position were that's too far out of a build to be accommodated by an exception or a variance that'd be granted this evening that's something that we could table entirely and just focus on the front peers I just want to be really clear if it's if that's not part of your process let's focus on the one that actually is. Yeah, it would seem to me if you're not going to build it within a year, just, you know, with a lot right now and come back. I'm absolutely fine with that. In fact, that's the clarification. Yes, absolutely. But then would you, if you're doing hardscape there, then you'd have to rip it up to do footings because you'd have to have the footings inspected for, right? I think that's right. I think you'd be taking up footings that are probably several feet by several feet wide. Because of the posts that would actually be supporting this thing are kind of actually smaller than what is visible because we would do probably six by six or eight by eight. We could, it's all dry laid pavers back there. So we pop up the paver. I just try to save some of your money when I'm going to spend it on these trees. For sure. Believe me, we talked about that from making sure it was modular enough and movable enough in the future if we wanted to do it, we could. Okay, just because when we do a planned phase, which is what she's trying to do, we want to think all approaches. So it's great that we're doing that. I appreciate the dialogue. Totally understand, thank you. With respect to the frontiers, their fieldstone, they're consistent with the neighborhood, which is primarily Tudor, ranches, colonials. And as the driveways, you know, we could double park or people drive through it right now, people are driving over the grass. These are great markers to just set aside the driveway. And what's the height on them? Four feet. Four feet, so. Correct. Three feet, three feet, six, and then a six foot topper of limestone, so making up to four feet tall. No, so we have four feet, four feet, and then three feet for the mordercore, yeah. There was an email specifically about an eight foot wall. So I was trying to. the length is the eight feet not the height the width of the wing so I just want to make that clear for anybody else who may have a problem with yes what we're talking about for high wise correct totally clear yes I think they taper down to maybe 18 inches or two feet tall if they're widest one foot six inches yeah the walls range from 42 to 30 and then taper down to 18 just to me this I mean this is not a neighborhood where you're seeing these piers and walls it's actually it's actually not true there are quite a few houses in the neighborhood to have this on well not around not around you all I'm saying is you know it's to me it's sort of a little bit out of place yeah when you come in on wind lane I think there are at least at least two homes on the left is you're

  39. which is primarily Tudor, ranches, colonials. And as the driveways, you know, we could double park or people drive through it right now, people are driving over the grass. These are great markers to just set aside the driveway. And what's the height on them? Four feet. Four feet, so. Correct. Three feet, three feet, six, and then a six foot topper of limestone, so making up to four feet tall. No, so we have four feet, four feet, and then three feet for the mordercore, yeah. There was an email specifically about an eight foot wall. So I was trying to. the length is the eight feet not the height the width of the wing so I just want to make that clear for anybody else who may have a problem with yes what we're talking about for high wise correct totally clear yes I think they taper down to maybe 18 inches or two feet tall if they're widest one foot six inches yeah the walls range from 42 to 30 and then taper down to 18 just to me this I mean this is not a neighborhood where you're seeing these piers and walls it's actually it's actually not true there are quite a few houses in the neighborhood to have this on well not around not around you all I'm saying is you know it's to me it's sort of a little bit out of place yeah when you come in on wind lane I think there are at least at least two homes on the left is you're coming from living lane heading up west or heading west from losser to our home and if you were coming into Lone Pine Estates from the lower section off of kind of the Peabody and Lane Lake way you would also see at least a couple of homes there also continuing down Lane Lake towards Lane Lake Court you'd see multiple homes that have illuminated gears with gas lanterns on the front which are approximately this height boarded by Foxwoods we're not going to illuminate them we're not going to put integrated lighting in them whether it's gas or electrical they'll simply be stone the only lighting in the area would be something that's low on the ground landscape in the landscape I understand what you're saying but just you know we don't want to end up with every house having these okay and a lot of times people come in there's a real reason why they need to have them for security or things like that because of the area just what's around it you know it's way too dark so I just tell you my feeling on this I hear you there and I know the pictures that are that the picture that preceded this one with the front yard picture if we can go back or put back even just one slide you can see right

  40. on wind lane I think there are at least at least two homes on the left is you're coming from living lane heading up west or heading west from losser to our home and if you were coming into Lone Pine Estates from the lower section off of kind of the Peabody and Lane Lake way you would also see at least a couple of homes there also continuing down Lane Lake towards Lane Lake Court you'd see multiple homes that have illuminated gears with gas lanterns on the front which are approximately this height boarded by Foxwoods we're not going to illuminate them we're not going to put integrated lighting in them whether it's gas or electrical they'll simply be stone the only lighting in the area would be something that's low on the ground landscape in the landscape I understand what you're saying but just you know we don't want to end up with every house having these okay and a lot of times people come in there's a real reason why they need to have them for security or things like that because of the area just what's around it you know it's way too dark so I just tell you my feeling on this I hear you there and I know the pictures that are that the picture that preceded this one with the front yard picture if we can go back or put back even just one slide you can see right now it's it's completely naked front yard right there are no trees there is no landscaping that's why we called Matt Mosher and the design team to say what can we put here as we protect this driveway people are driving over the inner edge of it there's a there's a sewer cap for our septic it's in that front yard yeah that's really close to tires going over it I'd love to set that off service vehicles visitors to my home etc and driving over that area it's very probably a six foot probably six feet out from the driveway it was now so we're kind of on the left side of the picture on the right you just see small walls right there where the driveway is but otherwise it's completely it's completely empty there are no trees or boxwoods or anything there so we thought the design looked lovely and in keeping with the neighbor any other questions from the board so I'd like to open this to the public so we'd like to comment on this item close the public hearing and bring it back Does anybody have any discussion or feedback? Mr. Chairman, I'd love to make a motion. Or I can do it if you want. The high of here is it's not bothering me. I would love for you to do it.

  41. picture if we can go back or put back even just one slide you can see right now it's it's completely naked front yard right there are no trees there is no landscaping that's why we called Matt Mosher and the design team to say what can we put here as we protect this driveway people are driving over the inner edge of it there's a there's a sewer cap for our septic it's in that front yard yeah that's really close to tires going over it I'd love to set that off service vehicles visitors to my home etc and driving over that area it's very probably a six foot probably six feet out from the driveway it was now so we're kind of on the left side of the picture on the right you just see small walls right there where the driveway is but otherwise it's completely it's completely empty there are no trees or boxwoods or anything there so we thought the design looked lovely and in keeping with the neighbor any other questions from the board so I'd like to open this to the public so we'd like to comment on this item close the public hearing and bring it back Does anybody have any discussion or feedback? Mr. Chairman, I'd love to make a motion. Or I can do it if you want. The high of here is it's not bothering me. I would love for you to do it. Really? I would. Yeah, it does. With respect to the property at 900 Timberlake Drive, I would move to approve the request for a dimensional variance because the applicant has demonstrated a practical difficulty. The practical difficulty is by virtue of the shape of the lot, its location on two roads with the road curving around, and the fact that because of that, people are actually using the driveway as cut-throughs, destroying his lawn. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. By reason of this, the way it's facing, it really won't directly impact any of those adjoining neighbors, and the new circumstances of the property have already been described, and it's not self-created. I've got part of the other paper. If approved, application for unnecessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be, no, that's it. All-purpose must be obtained prior to installation of the four non-illuminated piers, and they will be non-illuminated, and please don't come back. Thank you. Thank you.

  42. Really? I would. Yeah, it does. With respect to the property at 900 Timberlake Drive, I would move to approve the request for a dimensional variance because the applicant has demonstrated a practical difficulty. The practical difficulty is by virtue of the shape of the lot, its location on two roads with the road curving around, and the fact that because of that, people are actually using the driveway as cut-throughs, destroying his lawn. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. By reason of this, the way it's facing, it really won't directly impact any of those adjoining neighbors, and the new circumstances of the property have already been described, and it's not self-created. I've got part of the other paper. If approved, application for unnecessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be, no, that's it. All-purpose must be obtained prior to installation of the four non-illuminated piers, and they will be non-illuminated, and please don't come back. Thank you. Thank you. for gates or anything like that okay additional and you will be required to have plantings to screen the illuminated the non-illuminated peers and wing walls from public view and that screening supposed to meet or exceed the height of the items at the time of the planting if we had an actual visual rendering of them you'd see that they're intended to have round boxwoods in front of each one of those walls so that the lower yeah so hold on a second i i should have i didn't realize the comment was going to go on so we have a motion is there a second support motion for any discussion so yeah there is some discussion okay apologies for jumping out of order yeah one second so go ahead we also need a permission request no permission request for the four non-illuminated peers yeah okay so yeah i was just thinking i've heard along that okay all right i'd also move to approve the request for permission for the peers based on the reason that the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7 standards specifically those peers are compatible

  43. for gates or anything like that okay additional and you will be required to have plantings to screen the illuminated the non-illuminated peers and wing walls from public view and that screening supposed to meet or exceed the height of the items at the time of the planting if we had an actual visual rendering of them you'd see that they're intended to have round boxwoods in front of each one of those walls so that the lower yeah so hold on a second i i should have i didn't realize the comment was going to go on so we have a motion is there a second support motion for any discussion so yeah there is some discussion okay apologies for jumping out of order yeah one second so go ahead we also need a permission request no permission request for the four non-illuminated peers yeah okay so yeah i was just thinking i've heard along that okay all right i'd also move to approve the request for permission for the peers based on the reason that the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7 standards specifically those peers are compatible with the adjoining properties and appropriate for the neighborhood and harmonious with the neighborhood support so i believe we're going to treat this as one motion even though they i guess they came in second okay so did you have any discussion on the motion so did you want to i mean typically we don't uh have the applicant helping it part of the discussion but do you have a point that you want to make the first comment that was made about screening that was with regards to the pergola correct and not the walls in front my comment was about the pergola the motion on the floor includes that they're at depending on who makes the motion can ask for screening or softening of hardscape in the front yard so that is promotion in front of the walls or piers yeah we don't want to just drive down the street and see a wall and more stuff yes like you said it's yes why do we do plan to soften the look of them just obviously because it is a lot of stone so we do want to soften that um just to tie into the house so what are you going to soften with because her motion says you have to completely screen it so you have to find a way to tell her that you're going to soften it with because you didn't have a landscape plan yes there's no landscape

  44. demonstrated compliance with section 42-7 standards specifically those peers are compatible with the adjoining properties and appropriate for the neighborhood and harmonious with the neighborhood support so i believe we're going to treat this as one motion even though they i guess they came in second okay so did you have any discussion on the motion so did you want to i mean typically we don't uh have the applicant helping it part of the discussion but do you have a point that you want to make the first comment that was made about screening that was with regards to the pergola correct and not the walls in front my comment was about the pergola the motion on the floor includes that they're at depending on who makes the motion can ask for screening or softening of hardscape in the front yard so that is promotion in front of the walls or piers yeah we don't want to just drive down the street and see a wall and more stuff yes like you said it's yes why do we do plan to soften the look of them just obviously because it is a lot of stone so we do want to soften that um just to tie into the house so what are you going to soften with because her motion says you have to completely screen it so you have to find a way to tell her that you're going to soften it with because you didn't have a landscape plan yes there's no landscape plan like usual understood so basically what we like to do so we obviously have a bunch of round boxwoods kind of integrated in um and so kind of integrating those in touch with the peers and obviously that's something where you want us to provide a landscape plan we can do that i know we've done things after certain approvals as a contingency so we would be more than happy to provide that but adding round boxwoods adding some perennial whether it's an ornamental grass or some sort of perennial that helps buffer it not fully cover it because obviously we are building these beautiful piers that we do want to be visible but obviously kind of softening the stone and then like I said we already do currently have kind of the round boxwoods going on around the motor court area as well as some statement trees but if it is does make sense to have a contingency to provide a more in detail landscape plan for this front area we would obviously be more than happy to do so yes so there's a truly beautiful set of renderings so we can see it yes absolutely and I think this was just done before we had done that

  45. that you're going to soften it with because you didn't have a landscape plan yes there's no landscape plan like usual understood so basically what we like to do so we obviously have a bunch of round boxwoods kind of integrated in um and so kind of integrating those in touch with the peers and obviously that's something where you want us to provide a landscape plan we can do that i know we've done things after certain approvals as a contingency so we would be more than happy to provide that but adding round boxwoods adding some perennial whether it's an ornamental grass or some sort of perennial that helps buffer it not fully cover it because obviously we are building these beautiful piers that we do want to be visible but obviously kind of softening the stone and then like I said we already do currently have kind of the round boxwoods going on around the motor court area as well as some statement trees but if it is does make sense to have a contingency to provide a more in detail landscape plan for this front area we would obviously be more than happy to do so yes so there's a truly beautiful set of renderings so we can see it yes absolutely and I think this was just done before we had done that design of it from the original submission I would like to say I don't think it needs to be the height of the wall I think it should be I agree with that yeah yeah typically you put together a very nice plan yeah yes but the concept is you're not just gonna put a boxwood at each end okay you see a wall in between there has to be absolutely continuous softening yeah because we talked about adding a really beautiful annuals I know you guys kind of want to do that as you zoom in on the top down here well you can see it's a number of spherical the wrong boxwoods around so so could we kind of live with the concept of continuous softening correct yes but not obscuring yes or we could say a certain percentage of it has to be done so I'm gonna do that I don't know who's gonna that you that you yeah I think I think we have trustworthy we have trustworthy applicants is that enough clarification there's gonna be some boxwoods along the length of the wall continuous softening but not obscured some perennials too because the boxwoods do cover too much yes right now yes okay are you willing to

  46. renderings so we can see it yes absolutely and I think this was just done before we had done that design of it from the original submission I would like to say I don't think it needs to be the height of the wall I think it should be I agree with that yeah yeah typically you put together a very nice plan yeah yes but the concept is you're not just gonna put a boxwood at each end okay you see a wall in between there has to be absolutely continuous softening yeah because we talked about adding a really beautiful annuals I know you guys kind of want to do that as you zoom in on the top down here well you can see it's a number of spherical the wrong boxwoods around so so could we kind of live with the concept of continuous softening correct yes but not obscuring yes or we could say a certain percentage of it has to be done so I'm gonna do that I don't know who's gonna that you that you yeah I think I think we have trustworthy we have trustworthy applicants is that enough clarification there's gonna be some boxwoods along the length of the wall continuous softening but not obscured some perennials too because the boxwoods do cover too much yes right now yes okay are you willing to make some you apply for the permit have a landscape yes we'll do all right so I think we have an amendment clarification and my clarification support and support okay so I don't know what I've done with the motion here but are we clear are we going to be able to write this up are you clear pretty good all right so all those in favor of the motion as modified aye yes any opposed congratulations your request as modified as granted no okay well that's done but I am for five four six five Brookdale I'm here on behalf of property owners, Mike and Jill Mast. And your name is? Joseph Mosey, Joseph Mosey Architecture. Okay. They could not be here tonight, so they forwarded a letter of apology. I think, I hope you have and have seen, so they were bummed out they couldn't be here,

  47. because the boxwoods do cover too much yes right now yes okay are you willing to make some you apply for the permit have a landscape yes we'll do all right so I think we have an amendment clarification and my clarification support and support okay so I don't know what I've done with the motion here but are we clear are we going to be able to write this up are you clear pretty good all right so all those in favor of the motion as modified aye yes any opposed congratulations your request as modified as granted no okay well that's done but I am for five four six five Brookdale I'm here on behalf of property owners, Mike and Jill Mast. And your name is? Joseph Mosey, Joseph Mosey Architecture. Okay. They could not be here tonight, so they forwarded a letter of apology. I think, I hope you have and have seen, so they were bummed out they couldn't be here, because these are so much fun and everybody loves them. We're asking for a square footage variance for an accessory structure of 1,055 square feet for our proposed new detached structure that we feel will add beautiful fabric to the neighborhood and have virtually no impact on, excuse me, the surrounding properties. The lot coverage of the current home is typically, or right now, is only 4%. The new structure, with the new structure, it will increase to only 6% of the entire lot. It's a pretty, it's an extremely large parcel. Yeah, because I asked the staff, it's 3.3 acres. Yep. It's a big piece. So the structure will be set back 25 feet from that north property line, based on the home. That's a, an HOA requirement there of 25 feet. So it's further back than the 16 feet that we would otherwise have had to adhere to. The structure itself will actually, as a screen, there's a pool there right now, the existing pool, that is sort of projected out into the backyard. This creates, this building will help create more of a courtyard over there. And rather than be a nuisance, it will actually screen from noise and light and everything.

  48. so they were bummed out they couldn't be here, because these are so much fun and everybody loves them. We're asking for a square footage variance for an accessory structure of 1,055 square feet for our proposed new detached structure that we feel will add beautiful fabric to the neighborhood and have virtually no impact on, excuse me, the surrounding properties. The lot coverage of the current home is typically, or right now, is only 4%. The new structure, with the new structure, it will increase to only 6% of the entire lot. It's a pretty, it's an extremely large parcel. Yeah, because I asked the staff, it's 3.3 acres. Yep. It's a big piece. So the structure will be set back 25 feet from that north property line, based on the home. That's a, an HOA requirement there of 25 feet. So it's further back than the 16 feet that we would otherwise have had to adhere to. The structure itself will actually, as a screen, there's a pool there right now, the existing pool, that is sort of projected out into the backyard. This creates, this building will help create more of a courtyard over there. And rather than be a nuisance, it will actually screen from noise and light and everything. that's going on in the backyard of the house to the neighbors there's always there there's already a dense evergreen natural screening that will we will add to on that north line right now on that north line on the property on the mast property as well as the property next door there's some very large pine trees and some very smaller or some very dense small pine trees as well and edge that moves through there that's been there for for a long time and we're proposing to add to that as well so just to make sure that there is no way that anyone can see from the other property through you have the structure actually is built is designed to be similar to the main house of course so it's got all the same materials will be the continuation of the main structure it's positioned basically opposite of the garage that's there now so there's also a non-conforming garage or structure on the site right now it's basically a storage shed it's kind of a large storage shed it's about four feet from the property line on the north side so that will be removed and then the new structure will be 25 feet away from the

  49. that's going on in the backyard of the house to the neighbors there's always there there's already a dense evergreen natural screening that will we will add to on that north line right now on that north line on the property on the mast property as well as the property next door there's some very large pine trees and some very smaller or some very dense small pine trees as well and edge that moves through there that's been there for for a long time and we're proposing to add to that as well so just to make sure that there is no way that anyone can see from the other property through you have the structure actually is built is designed to be similar to the main house of course so it's got all the same materials will be the continuation of the main structure it's positioned basically opposite of the garage that's there now so there's also a non-conforming garage or structure on the site right now it's basically a storage shed it's kind of a large storage shed it's about four feet from the property line on the north side so that will be removed and then the new structure will be 25 feet away from the property line so you can kind of see it up there on the top of them there's a building right there that's basically about four feet off the line and also the good portion of the structure will be an open-air pair and terrorists that's related to or that will be connected to the pool that kind of as a pool terrorist as well so it's not like it's a big giant block of the structures it's got some open-air pieces to it as well that's pretty much it thank you so any questions let me know any questions from the board I have a question I don't want to be difficult it looks lovely and completely keeping with this size property is it overlapping with the house is it technically in the rear yard or can it be beside the last bit of the house can it be anywhere it's behind the plane of the house so we would consider that a rear yard and it's exceeding the required side yard setback so we would consider that a rear yard okay any other questions what is the actual height is it 20 feet to the chimney or is that to the structure yeah the the structure we carefully designed

  50. so that will be removed and then the new structure will be 25 feet away from the property line so you can kind of see it up there on the top of them there's a building right there that's basically about four feet off the line and also the good portion of the structure will be an open-air pair and terrorists that's related to or that will be connected to the pool that kind of as a pool terrorist as well so it's not like it's a big giant block of the structures it's got some open-air pieces to it as well that's pretty much it thank you so any questions let me know any questions from the board I have a question I don't want to be difficult it looks lovely and completely keeping with this size property is it overlapping with the house is it technically in the rear yard or can it be beside the last bit of the house can it be anywhere it's behind the plane of the house so we would consider that a rear yard and it's exceeding the required side yard setback so we would consider that a rear yard okay any other questions what is the actual height is it 20 feet to the chimney or is that to the structure yeah the the structure we carefully designed the entire structure of the 14-foot height so the 20-foot six yes there's the top of the chimney so trying to meet the spirit of the ordinance you wanted 14 feet for the structure yeah correct yes exactly yeah which is really hard with a 40-foot wide building it's very difficult yeah you can see all the gables and roofs and yeah it was a puzzle to put together yeah exactly and we think that the the chimney adds a little bit of character to it and kind of breaks it up a little bit too pull the stone in the house any other questions the applicant will open this to the public anyone like to comment on this side close the public hearing and bring it back for a motion mr. chair I'll make a motion thank you so with regard to the both the permission requests for the detached garage as well as the dimensional variance request at five four six five Brookdale Road for the permission request I moved that the very I moved that the that the accessory structure the furniture for it be approved is submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the accessory structure is harmonious for the neighborhood given that many of the homes in this area have accessory

  51. chimney or is that to the structure yeah the the structure we carefully designed the entire structure of the 14-foot height so the 20-foot six yes there's the top of the chimney so trying to meet the spirit of the ordinance you wanted 14 feet for the structure yeah correct yes exactly yeah which is really hard with a 40-foot wide building it's very difficult yeah you can see all the gables and roofs and yeah it was a puzzle to put together yeah exactly and we think that the the chimney adds a little bit of character to it and kind of breaks it up a little bit too pull the stone in the house any other questions the applicant will open this to the public anyone like to comment on this side close the public hearing and bring it back for a motion mr. chair I'll make a motion thank you so with regard to the both the permission requests for the detached garage as well as the dimensional variance request at five four six five Brookdale Road for the permission request I moved that the very I moved that the that the accessory structure the furniture for it be approved is submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the accessory structure is harmonious for the neighborhood given that many of the homes in this area have accessory structures similar to this and the lot size can certainly accommodate it with regard to the appeal for the dimensional variance at the same address I move the variance be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance of the strict load of the ordinance to be unduly burdensome due to the due to the size of the lot there's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that this will be screened appropriately with evergreen plantings unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated again because it is a good-sized lot and has plenty of room for this and obviously that's not self created so if the motion is it must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the detached garage additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the detached garage from public view and shall meet or exceed the height of the accessory structure at the time of planting and a single-family affidavit is required to be submitted to the township support support I have motion support any discussion just a clarification he mentioned landscape plan are you requiring that you have a screening for the garage for the garage

  52. neighborhood given that many of the homes in this area have accessory structures similar to this and the lot size can certainly accommodate it with regard to the appeal for the dimensional variance at the same address I move the variance be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance of the strict load of the ordinance to be unduly burdensome due to the due to the size of the lot there's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that this will be screened appropriately with evergreen plantings unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated again because it is a good-sized lot and has plenty of room for this and obviously that's not self created so if the motion is it must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the detached garage additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the detached garage from public view and shall meet or exceed the height of the accessory structure at the time of planting and a single-family affidavit is required to be submitted to the township support support I have motion support any discussion just a clarification he mentioned landscape plan are you requiring that you have a screening for the garage for the garage but also pergola yes okay so is the screening gonna be at the height at planting yes what was that there's a certain height you're looking for for the screening yeah I think that you had mentioned that it's gonna be screened from neighbors right yeah and that's what I was referring to in the motion yep yeah there's yep on the there's there's the plan to be evergreen trees planted in there I guess we haven't picked the size yet but there's a pretty dense screen there already so this will just be probably whatever looks most aesthetically pleasing not just a row of you know probably move them in and out if you want to say a certain size six feet eight feet something like that well be fine we do require that it's at the at the height of the accessory structure and planting but okay we don't always do that we don't screen garages but it's not a garage it's a garage and pergola that's why the space is so big so that's why I wanted to clarify well we don't always screen pergolas too because sometimes pergolas are you know from public view and it sounds like it's been well addressed at the lot line yeah that's why we have discussion of the motion yeah we could

  53. plan are you requiring that you have a screening for the garage for the garage but also pergola yes okay so is the screening gonna be at the height at planting yes what was that there's a certain height you're looking for for the screening yeah I think that you had mentioned that it's gonna be screened from neighbors right yeah and that's what I was referring to in the motion yep yeah there's yep on the there's there's the plan to be evergreen trees planted in there I guess we haven't picked the size yet but there's a pretty dense screen there already so this will just be probably whatever looks most aesthetically pleasing not just a row of you know probably move them in and out if you want to say a certain size six feet eight feet something like that well be fine we do require that it's at the at the height of the accessory structure and planting but okay we don't always do that we don't screen garages but it's not a garage it's a garage and pergola that's why the space is so big so that's why I wanted to clarify well we don't always screen pergolas too because sometimes pergolas are you know from public view and it sounds like it's been well addressed at the lot line yeah that's why we have discussion of the motion yeah we could get deciduous trees in there I think that would be as high as the structure moving pine trees back in there an existing driveway and everything I don't know you know if we can get 15 foot high pines in there I don't know that 15 foot or 14 foot high trees are necessary I feel like maybe the Eve line and we're used to seeing the roofs of buildings and accessory structures so I'd I to me this is more of a softening yeah okay I can't amend anything I'm just throwing out ideas yeah softening screening especially from the neighbor's side and in the range of the Eve height not the entire building is that helpful to the staff enough okay support for the amendment so he was so we have a motion and support for the amendment so all those in favor for the motion as amended say aye aye aye any opposed

  54. the lot line yeah that's why we have discussion of the motion yeah we could get deciduous trees in there I think that would be as high as the structure moving pine trees back in there an existing driveway and everything I don't know you know if we can get 15 foot high pines in there I don't know that 15 foot or 14 foot high trees are necessary I feel like maybe the Eve line and we're used to seeing the roofs of buildings and accessory structures so I'd I to me this is more of a softening yeah okay I can't amend anything I'm just throwing out ideas yeah softening screening especially from the neighbor's side and in the range of the Eve height not the entire building is that helpful to the staff enough okay support for the amendment so he was so we have a motion and support for the amendment so all those in favor for the motion as amended say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request as modified is greeted thank you very much thank you calling item 5 2 2 2 6 0 Devonbrook good evening my name is Dan Martell I'm a resident at 3 2 6 0 Devonbrook with my wife and my youngest daughter at this time my oldest is in college so we are looking to put some extra storage shed in our backyard the larger there's two sheds that we're proposing one is the larger one that will store my lawn tractor and yard tools and the other one will be a pool shed I call it but it's used for you know a little bit of entertaining and storage of some pool toys and vacuum and that sort of stuff we're going to propose evergreens type trees to screen it from from the property and they're going to be shed style shed style structures with board and batten I believe and I don't think I have much else to discuss here but there's no

  55. congratulations your request as modified is greeted thank you very much thank you calling item 5 2 2 2 6 0 Devonbrook good evening my name is Dan Martell I'm a resident at 3 2 6 0 Devonbrook with my wife and my youngest daughter at this time my oldest is in college so we are looking to put some extra storage shed in our backyard the larger there's two sheds that we're proposing one is the larger one that will store my lawn tractor and yard tools and the other one will be a pool shed I call it but it's used for you know a little bit of entertaining and storage of some pool toys and vacuum and that sort of stuff we're going to propose evergreens type trees to screen it from from the property and they're going to be shed style shed style structures with board and batten I believe and I don't think I have much else to discuss here but there's no dimensional variance request or anything it's just a request for a for a permission at this point at this point at this point it's notciast this point don't we're looking at the thank you very much questions so you have a good screening it looks like to the for your southern neighbor the northern neighbor there doesn't seem to be enough screening like with the way your property sits versus theirs it seems like there's a good chance they're going to see those structures yeah we're going to need a plan we're going to be planning anything blocking that's a great answer perfect love it yeah that's it thank you any other questions i'll open this to the public anyone like to comment close public hearing and bring it back for a motion mr chairman i'd like to make a motion thank you so for the permission request in regards to the appeal at 3260 devonbrook drive for the accessory structures too i request him i move the request to be approved as amended based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is approached in the neighborhood as many people have additional sheds because in this area there's not enough storage in your two-car garage and some

  56. batten I believe and I don't think I have much else to discuss here but there's no dimensional variance request or anything it's just a request for a for a permission at this point at this point at this point it's notciast this point don't we're looking at the thank you very much questions so you have a good screening it looks like to the for your southern neighbor the northern neighbor there doesn't seem to be enough screening like with the way your property sits versus theirs it seems like there's a good chance they're going to see those structures yeah we're going to need a plan we're going to be planning anything blocking that's a great answer perfect love it yeah that's it thank you any other questions i'll open this to the public anyone like to comment close public hearing and bring it back for a motion mr chairman i'd like to make a motion thank you so for the permission request in regards to the appeal at 3260 devonbrook drive for the accessory structures too i request him i move the request to be approved as amended based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is approached in the neighborhood as many people have additional sheds because in this area there's not enough storage in your two-car garage and some are on slabs over there so allowing you to have extra storage is appropriate for the neighborhood if this application is approved or approved all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the two sheds additional evergreen screenings will be required so you can completely screen the sheds from public view i know you can't see from telegraph but we're going to see it from that northern neighbor and southern neighbor so i need you to come with a plan state associate fair that's it that's it support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you calling item six eight two five North Valley Chase Road good evening board Tony bearish higher ground landscaping services on the behalf of Krista McNaughton Ikebone we are installing a fireplace it is approximately 11 feet tall and it will encompass two cubbies on either side of it with places to hold wood and the yard has been already

  57. have additional sheds because in this area there's not enough storage in your two-car garage and some are on slabs over there so allowing you to have extra storage is appropriate for the neighborhood if this application is approved or approved all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the two sheds additional evergreen screenings will be required so you can completely screen the sheds from public view i know you can't see from telegraph but we're going to see it from that northern neighbor and southern neighbor so i need you to come with a plan state associate fair that's it that's it support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you calling item six eight two five North Valley Chase Road good evening board Tony bearish higher ground landscaping services on the behalf of Krista McNaughton Ikebone we are installing a fireplace it is approximately 11 feet tall and it will encompass two cubbies on either side of it with places to hold wood and the yard has been already screened with 14 to 16 foot green Giants completely covering and nobody can see anything I believe there's pictures that are accompanying this so it's at the end of a raised patio yeah it's the patio is existing okay and that's the view of where the kind of the fireplace would be the only question I have is how far away is it from the plantings yeah about 20 more than 20 feet perfect yeah don't want them to catch on fire oh yeah any other questions Open this to the public. For comment. Close the public hearing. Bring it back for a motion. Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion. There we go. In regards to the appeal at 825 North Philly Chase Road, for the accessory structure, fireplace and chimney, I'm going to request to be approved and submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it fits. It's tied into the terrace in the back. It is within setbacks

  58. either side of it with places to hold wood and the yard has been already screened with 14 to 16 foot green Giants completely covering and nobody can see anything I believe there's pictures that are accompanying this so it's at the end of a raised patio yeah it's the patio is existing okay and that's the view of where the kind of the fireplace would be the only question I have is how far away is it from the plantings yeah about 20 more than 20 feet perfect yeah don't want them to catch on fire oh yeah any other questions Open this to the public. For comment. Close the public hearing. Bring it back for a motion. Mr. Chair, I'd like to make a motion. There we go. In regards to the appeal at 825 North Philly Chase Road, for the accessory structure, fireplace and chimney, I'm going to request to be approved and submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it fits. It's tied into the terrace in the back. It is within setbacks and there are many other structures in the community that are like this. If approved, the application for all district permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the fireplace. Additional screenings shall be required or may be required to completely screen the fireplace for public view and shall meet or exceed the height of the structure, the time of planting, if there are any openings within that existing landscape. Support. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. So calling item 7288, Orange Lake Drive. My name is Kamal Tolia. I'm representing my client Plum Collage to add an accessory structure. I'm here. You're welcome. the back of his property and considering we have enough foliage on the north side and the east side and we've just putting a necessary structure for a detached garage for his extra large van and that's all I have to say right now so any

  59. to the neighborhood as it fits. It's tied into the terrace in the back. It is within setbacks and there are many other structures in the community that are like this. If approved, the application for all district permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the fireplace. Additional screenings shall be required or may be required to completely screen the fireplace for public view and shall meet or exceed the height of the structure, the time of planting, if there are any openings within that existing landscape. Support. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. So calling item 7288, Orange Lake Drive. My name is Kamal Tolia. I'm representing my client Plum Collage to add an accessory structure. I'm here. You're welcome. the back of his property and considering we have enough foliage on the north side and the east side and we've just putting a necessary structure for a detached garage for his extra large van and that's all I have to say right now so any questions any questions from the board yeah so do we know that the dimension from that corner to the lot line is more than 16 feet yes ma'am yeah it looks like it I'll open this to the public for comment anyone that wishes to comment on this item I will close the public hearing and bring it back for discussion questions why are you going with a 16 foot high garage when we the variant the normal is 14 I didn't realize about the height factor but we can work on that and we can lower the structure down by two feet that's not shouldn't be a problem he has an extra large van yeah so I saw the garage door he already has a big garage door so if you lower the structure it's gonna make it interesting to put a big enough garage door so I think my roof is actually at 412 pitch we might go you know three and a half and then maybe my overall height of the wall exterior wall that 12 feet I might lower down

  60. garage for his extra large van and that's all I have to say right now so any questions any questions from the board yeah so do we know that the dimension from that corner to the lot line is more than 16 feet yes ma'am yeah it looks like it I'll open this to the public for comment anyone that wishes to comment on this item I will close the public hearing and bring it back for discussion questions why are you going with a 16 foot high garage when we the variant the normal is 14 I didn't realize about the height factor but we can work on that and we can lower the structure down by two feet that's not shouldn't be a problem he has an extra large van yeah so I saw the garage door he already has a big garage door so if you lower the structure it's gonna make it interesting to put a big enough garage door so I think my roof is actually at 412 pitch we might go you know three and a half and then maybe my overall height of the wall exterior wall that 12 feet I might lower down to 11 feet so yeah I'm not trying to design this for you I'm trying to just ask some questions no that's all I mean it's a you know it's a detailed structure so he's only looking for a 10-foot high garage door so he can get that big van so I had a big van with a ladder on top of it so he can take that in and it's great to put that away so as they were don't see it and makes a cleaner structure right exactly yeah so are we gonna hold them to 14 feet or we give him up to 16 hoping that he can do 14 well you started the line of questioning there Chris I think well what do you feel about it when it comes to garages I'm a garage guy obviously but as long as your client what they're asked was 16 feet so if they can make it lower they'd be great I think we need to tell them I agree if you do this with some kind of trusses inside you can clear that 10 foot door you know with a pitch roof inside I also will say I don't recommend less than afford well we want your shingles to last so I'll leave it to

  61. to 11 feet so yeah I'm not trying to design this for you I'm trying to just ask some questions no that's all I mean it's a you know it's a detailed structure so he's only looking for a 10-foot high garage door so he can get that big van so I had a big van with a ladder on top of it so he can take that in and it's great to put that away so as they were don't see it and makes a cleaner structure right exactly yeah so are we gonna hold them to 14 feet or we give him up to 16 hoping that he can do 14 well you started the line of questioning there Chris I think well what do you feel about it when it comes to garages I'm a garage guy obviously but as long as your client what they're asked was 16 feet so if they can make it lower they'd be great I think we need to tell them I agree if you do this with some kind of trusses inside you can clear that 10 foot door you know with a pitch roof inside I also will say I don't recommend less than afford well we want your shingles to last so I'll leave it to you design professionals to decide I designed it I mean I've been doing all the drawings for you could go to 14 yeah we can work something out so as long as the the peak of the roof is at 14 that's what you're looking for am i correct unless you're under the variance so yes that's what i'm asking because i understand the need for the garage that's what i'm arguing so as long as you're you can still make a 10-foot door on that with your overhangs that you have yeah great i'm ready to make a motion okay okay mr chairman in regards to the permission request at 288 orange lake drive for the accessory structure i moved the request be approved as amended based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as other people have accessory structures whether it's garages or sheds and again they are doing this to put their work equipment inside which will then create a cleaner neighborhood line a cleaner neighborhood look which is great for the neighbors also for the dimensional variance in regards to again same address i move the variant to be approved as amended based on the information presented the applicant did

  62. recommend less than afford well we want your shingles to last so I'll leave it to you design professionals to decide I designed it I mean I've been doing all the drawings for you could go to 14 yeah we can work something out so as long as the the peak of the roof is at 14 that's what you're looking for am i correct unless you're under the variance so yes that's what i'm asking because i understand the need for the garage that's what i'm arguing so as long as you're you can still make a 10-foot door on that with your overhangs that you have yeah great i'm ready to make a motion okay okay mr chairman in regards to the permission request at 288 orange lake drive for the accessory structure i moved the request be approved as amended based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as other people have accessory structures whether it's garages or sheds and again they are doing this to put their work equipment inside which will then create a cleaner neighborhood line a cleaner neighborhood look which is great for the neighbors also for the dimensional variance in regards to again same address i move the variant to be approved as amended based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance restrict whether the ordinance would be unduly burdensome well i don't it is 50 of the group um he would not be able to put his oversized van in the garage which then would um add to the visual disturbances to the neighborhood there's no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason that you're actually cleaning up and making it easier for you to store your equipment and for your livelihood you start to probably have been demonstrating the fact that you need a 10-foot door this would be the way to do it this is not self created the fact of that is his line of work if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction and i'm not going to require additional evergreen screenings because it is a tax structure support support oh and a single family affidavit is required okay uh so i have a motion in support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is modified is granted thank you okay thank you so calling item 8 2817 turtle grove court hi good evening my name is brad devries i'm the lead architect at sapphire luxury homes i'm here on

  63. address i move the variant to be approved as amended based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance restrict whether the ordinance would be unduly burdensome well i don't it is 50 of the group um he would not be able to put his oversized van in the garage which then would um add to the visual disturbances to the neighborhood there's no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason that you're actually cleaning up and making it easier for you to store your equipment and for your livelihood you start to probably have been demonstrating the fact that you need a 10-foot door this would be the way to do it this is not self created the fact of that is his line of work if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction and i'm not going to require additional evergreen screenings because it is a tax structure support support oh and a single family affidavit is required okay uh so i have a motion in support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is modified is granted thank you okay thank you so calling item 8 2817 turtle grove court hi good evening my name is brad devries i'm the lead architect at sapphire luxury homes i'm here on behalf of joseph and adriana machine machine we are asking for a lot of things tonight um so i'm going to go through them i expect questions so happy to answer those can you hang on yeah of course i was a little confused why don't they need approval for an at-grade pool it's in the secondary front yard okay all right pretty much every that's okay the reason why that is the most of the reason so i appreciate you taking the time tonight to hear our case and like i said i'm going to go through this uh kind of quick overview and i'm happy to answer questions from there so as a member uh razadi just said asked an important question The reason for most of the things we're asking for is because this is a unique property. We have a double frontage. It's addressed to Turtle Grove Court, but it backs up to Turtle Lake Drive. So we effectively have two front yards, and we're asking many of the variances that we're asking tonight are permission requests, I believe, to place structures that are normally permitted only in the rear yard and place them in what is considered front yard but is functionally rear yard.

  64. hi good evening my name is brad devries i'm the lead architect at sapphire luxury homes i'm here on behalf of joseph and adriana machine machine we are asking for a lot of things tonight um so i'm going to go through them i expect questions so happy to answer those can you hang on yeah of course i was a little confused why don't they need approval for an at-grade pool it's in the secondary front yard okay all right pretty much every that's okay the reason why that is the most of the reason so i appreciate you taking the time tonight to hear our case and like i said i'm going to go through this uh kind of quick overview and i'm happy to answer questions from there so as a member uh razadi just said asked an important question The reason for most of the things we're asking for is because this is a unique property. We have a double frontage. It's addressed to Turtle Grove Court, but it backs up to Turtle Lake Drive. So we effectively have two front yards, and we're asking many of the variances that we're asking tonight are permission requests, I believe, to place structures that are normally permitted only in the rear yard and place them in what is considered front yard but is functionally rear yard. So that's going to cover the at-grade pool, the at-grade spa, the four-foot-high pool fence, the pergola that's 12 by 16 by 9, and the play structure as well as the fireplace and the shower. In addition to that, we are asking for pool equipment to be located away from the home structure, and it's located, it's hard to see on this plan. There's a lot of things highlighted, but it's actually kind of all the way, which I think the other one's easier, all the way at the bottom, kind of the square rectangle to the left, kind of the first left rectangle, but that's our pool equipment. And the big reason we're asking for that is basically from the edge of our lanai to the edge of the pool is a stormwater easement. and we are so that's part of the reason a that the pool is kind of pulled away from the structure and all of this is theirs we have some hardscape crossing that easement but we wanted to get all of the you know more more permanent structures out of that easement that's serving a detention basin that's

  65. and place them in what is considered front yard but is functionally rear yard. So that's going to cover the at-grade pool, the at-grade spa, the four-foot-high pool fence, the pergola that's 12 by 16 by 9, and the play structure as well as the fireplace and the shower. In addition to that, we are asking for pool equipment to be located away from the home structure, and it's located, it's hard to see on this plan. There's a lot of things highlighted, but it's actually kind of all the way, which I think the other one's easier, all the way at the bottom, kind of the square rectangle to the left, kind of the first left rectangle, but that's our pool equipment. And the big reason we're asking for that is basically from the edge of our lanai to the edge of the pool is a stormwater easement. and we are so that's part of the reason a that the pool is kind of pulled away from the structure and all of this is theirs we have some hardscape crossing that easement but we wanted to get all of the you know more more permanent structures out of that easement that's serving a detention basin that's directly to our east and in that same sense we do have to go through that easement to do the pool and do the pool equipment but to us it made a lot more sense to run just the singular infrastructural lines to that pool equipment rather all than all of the ins and outs that would come from that pool equipment crossing the easement more times than we would in this scenario so we're asking for that and then finally we are asking for the fireplace wall which is kind of the long rectangular highlight directly south of the spa and the shower wall which is the one that's adjacent to the pool equipment to exceed the I believe four foot minimum and both be six feet tall the reason for this is to further make this backyard private because as I mentioned this is a double frontage Turtle Lake Drive is the main entrance into this neighborhood so and really the only entrance there's kind of the service drive off of Square Lake but this is where literally everyone who lives within this neighborhood is coming into the neighborhood and they'd be driving and they'd be driving

  66. structures out of that easement that's serving a detention basin that's directly to our east and in that same sense we do have to go through that easement to do the pool and do the pool equipment but to us it made a lot more sense to run just the singular infrastructural lines to that pool equipment rather all than all of the ins and outs that would come from that pool equipment crossing the easement more times than we would in this scenario so we're asking for that and then finally we are asking for the fireplace wall which is kind of the long rectangular highlight directly south of the spa and the shower wall which is the one that's adjacent to the pool equipment to exceed the I believe four foot minimum and both be six feet tall the reason for this is to further make this backyard private because as I mentioned this is a double frontage Turtle Lake Drive is the main entrance into this neighborhood so and really the only entrance there's kind of the service drive off of Square Lake but this is where literally everyone who lives within this neighborhood is coming into the neighborhood and they'd be driving and they'd be driving by and you know seeing you at your pool and stuff so this is just to provide a little bit more screening for us there we are proposing to there is existing evergreen screening fully covering that that is probably 20-25 feet high we are proposing to move those trees to the south of all this so we will continue to have full screening as you come in off of Turtle Grove or Turtle Lake so even though these things are going to be two feet higher than the ordinance allows it's going to be completely screened from the other public properties and people coming into the neighborhood and then finally along the east side of the property we do have a retaining wall that is closer in eight feet into the 16 foot side yard that exceeds the in that scenario we can only go to two feet we are proposing a four-foot wall and I will just and this is primarily driven by we have a retaining a big retention pond right there and the grade drops off significantly so this is to a couple with that as our driveway goes along there and then just a little on that that was actually on our previously approved site

  67. by and you know seeing you at your pool and stuff so this is just to provide a little bit more screening for us there we are proposing to there is existing evergreen screening fully covering that that is probably 20-25 feet high we are proposing to move those trees to the south of all this so we will continue to have full screening as you come in off of Turtle Grove or Turtle Lake so even though these things are going to be two feet higher than the ordinance allows it's going to be completely screened from the other public properties and people coming into the neighborhood and then finally along the east side of the property we do have a retaining wall that is closer in eight feet into the 16 foot side yard that exceeds the in that scenario we can only go to two feet we are proposing a four-foot wall and I will just and this is primarily driven by we have a retaining a big retention pond right there and the grade drops off significantly so this is to a couple with that as our driveway goes along there and then just a little on that that was actually on our previously approved site plan but somehow I guess didn't get flagged so we're here asking for that variance as well that's everything we have again the unique characteristics of our properties we have a large detention basin to the east we have double frontage the secondary frontage is on the main entrance to the neighborhood and we have a 20-foot stormwater easement that runs between the house and all of these proposals for us. I think that covers everything. There's a lot there. Like I said, I'm happy to answer any questions you have. Go right ahead, Chris. Hopefully it's an easy one. So the pool fence, you can see that the gate goes into the structure. It did not go further to the north along the driveway and or on top of that retaining wall, correct? The pool fence ends basically at that gate. Correct. So the rest of that yellow line is just that retaining wall because of that basin with the grade change. That's correct. Perfect. Any other questions? I'll open this to the public. Would anyone like to speak on this item? Close the public hearing and bring it back. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. So with regard to both the permission requests for the pergola, outdoor shower, fireplace, play structure, and retaining wall, I move that these requests

  68. then just a little on that that was actually on our previously approved site plan but somehow I guess didn't get flagged so we're here asking for that variance as well that's everything we have again the unique characteristics of our properties we have a large detention basin to the east we have double frontage the secondary frontage is on the main entrance to the neighborhood and we have a 20-foot stormwater easement that runs between the house and all of these proposals for us. I think that covers everything. There's a lot there. Like I said, I'm happy to answer any questions you have. Go right ahead, Chris. Hopefully it's an easy one. So the pool fence, you can see that the gate goes into the structure. It did not go further to the north along the driveway and or on top of that retaining wall, correct? The pool fence ends basically at that gate. Correct. So the rest of that yellow line is just that retaining wall because of that basin with the grade change. That's correct. Perfect. Any other questions? I'll open this to the public. Would anyone like to speak on this item? Close the public hearing and bring it back. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. So with regard to both the permission requests for the pergola, outdoor shower, fireplace, play structure, and retaining wall, I move that these requests be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of these accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood as many in the neighborhood have things similar, and it will not hinder the use of neighbor's property. For the dimensional variance, I'm for the pool fence, pool, spa, pergola, outdoor shower, pool equipment, not in... adjacent to the house fireplace and play structure all located within the Turtle Lake Drive secondary frontage as well as a retaining wall coaching eight feet into the 16 foot easterly side yard setback I move that these be this these variances be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict little or strict letter of the ordinance we unduly burdensome due to the fact there are there is a retention basin to the side of the home there is a stormwater easement and this is also a secondary front yard there is no injustice to the joint neighbors by it is appropriately landscaped and unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated just as I stated and if

  69. pergola, outdoor shower, fireplace, play structure, and retaining wall, I move that these requests be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of these accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood as many in the neighborhood have things similar, and it will not hinder the use of neighbor's property. For the dimensional variance, I'm for the pool fence, pool, spa, pergola, outdoor shower, pool equipment, not in... adjacent to the house fireplace and play structure all located within the Turtle Lake Drive secondary frontage as well as a retaining wall coaching eight feet into the 16 foot easterly side yard setback I move that these be this these variances be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict little or strict letter of the ordinance we unduly burdensome due to the fact there are there is a retention basin to the side of the home there is a stormwater easement and this is also a secondary front yard there is no injustice to the joint neighbors by it is appropriately landscaped and unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated just as I stated and if that is not self-created so if approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and construction of the proposed items additional evergreen plantings may be required to be completely screen the items we discussed and shall meet or exceed the height of the items at the time of planting yet you did make that pretty clear what you were planting it looks to meet that requirement they're very tall existing there you can see the trees thank you I say a motion and support any discussion all is in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations request is granted thank you very much A colleague out of Dye, 5721 Kenmore Road. Good evening. How you doing? Good evening. My name is Ahmed Zahar, and I'm the owner of 5721 Kenmore Road. I'm here to seek approval for existing accessories that I've had, but I never knew I needed permission of accessories at the time.

  70. circumstances with the property have been demonstrated just as I stated and if that is not self-created so if approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and construction of the proposed items additional evergreen plantings may be required to be completely screen the items we discussed and shall meet or exceed the height of the items at the time of planting yet you did make that pretty clear what you were planting it looks to meet that requirement they're very tall existing there you can see the trees thank you I say a motion and support any discussion all is in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations request is granted thank you very much A colleague out of Dye, 5721 Kenmore Road. Good evening. How you doing? Good evening. My name is Ahmed Zahar, and I'm the owner of 5721 Kenmore Road. I'm here to seek approval for existing accessories that I've had, but I never knew I needed permission of accessories at the time. Do you have a sports court? Yeah, we got it approved last year. I think I was the last guy. And so you got those approvals, but you weren't aware that you also needed approvals for these things? That's exactly what happened. One gentleman came in to approve the court, and he saw these. They've been there for like two years or three years, which is a gazebo from Costco that I didn't think. Okay, so these preceded the sports court? These were up before the sports court? Before the sports court. Okay. So he came in, he's like, I don't know, we're talking. He's like, what else are you doing? I go, I got a cold plunge, or like a hot tub, I'm going to put it there. He goes, yes, you can do that because you have the arborvaries around it, and it's like over 18 feet away from the fence. He's like, but this, did you have a... ... permission of accessory and I'm like no I never know because you need to like just go for the CBA and then they can see it but I'm within the setbacks and way far from the neighbors and they never complain and trust me I have some

  71. of accessories at the time. Do you have a sports court? Yeah, we got it approved last year. I think I was the last guy. And so you got those approvals, but you weren't aware that you also needed approvals for these things? That's exactly what happened. One gentleman came in to approve the court, and he saw these. They've been there for like two years or three years, which is a gazebo from Costco that I didn't think. Okay, so these preceded the sports court? These were up before the sports court? Before the sports court. Okay. So he came in, he's like, I don't know, we're talking. He's like, what else are you doing? I go, I got a cold plunge, or like a hot tub, I'm going to put it there. He goes, yes, you can do that because you have the arborvaries around it, and it's like over 18 feet away from the fence. He's like, but this, did you have a... ... permission of accessory and I'm like no I never know because you need to like just go for the CBA and then they can see it but I'm within the setbacks and way far from the neighbors and they never complain and trust me I have some neighbors that you do complain if it bothers if you remember last year I have I do I do remember that yeah exactly what what about the screening for these is there any screen well you could see where the black gazebo right there there's a lot of the bushes and like trees a lot you can't even see and then where the hot tub is also you can't see there's the arms the only one is the pergola and it's only exposed to that neighbor on my on my right side and actually he's the one that helped me put it together so it was never an issue but I did put some arms along the fence two years ago and they died like four of them died so I'm planning anyway because I like my privacy I'm planning to put to cover that screen right there that fence where the arrow points at by the 53 feet number anyway that's I'm planning on doing so there should be no issues any other questions from the board mr. chairman have a couple okay

  72. way far from the neighbors and they never complain and trust me I have some neighbors that you do complain if it bothers if you remember last year I have I do I do remember that yeah exactly what what about the screening for these is there any screen well you could see where the black gazebo right there there's a lot of the bushes and like trees a lot you can't even see and then where the hot tub is also you can't see there's the arms the only one is the pergola and it's only exposed to that neighbor on my on my right side and actually he's the one that helped me put it together so it was never an issue but I did put some arms along the fence two years ago and they died like four of them died so I'm planning anyway because I like my privacy I'm planning to put to cover that screen right there that fence where the arrow points at by the 53 feet number anyway that's I'm planning on doing so there should be no issues any other questions from the board mr. chairman have a couple okay so um i do remember your sports court so i did go by your site today just to double check everything first i want to give you credit your um screening around the sports court is good thank you i would love a couple more trees but that's for enforcement to figure out there there isn't enough screening for these most of the trees you have around it especially to the um hot tub you're absolutely right has great screening yes the other two have screening of plants that will shed their leaves and you'll be able to see it in the winter time which will not only not provide you privacy which you want but then your neighbors will see it so we need to add screening so when we do this we're asking for forgiveness not permission so now we have to do extra things yes to get that so i don't remember seeing any of these in the pictures when you did your sports court so like you do your sports court you show us all these pictures of the different elevations these would have probably come up in that so i must have missed it in that november meeting so i can take blame for that but now i need screening so like i can see inside your neighbor's property i can see the pergola from your gate i'm with you i'm not denying that so not from the gate actually from the from the other side

  73. so um i do remember your sports court so i did go by your site today just to double check everything first i want to give you credit your um screening around the sports court is good thank you i would love a couple more trees but that's for enforcement to figure out there there isn't enough screening for these most of the trees you have around it especially to the um hot tub you're absolutely right has great screening yes the other two have screening of plants that will shed their leaves and you'll be able to see it in the winter time which will not only not provide you privacy which you want but then your neighbors will see it so we need to add screening so when we do this we're asking for forgiveness not permission so now we have to do extra things yes to get that so i don't remember seeing any of these in the pictures when you did your sports court so like you do your sports court you show us all these pictures of the different elevations these would have probably come up in that so i must have missed it in that november meeting so i can take blame for that but now i need screening so like i can see inside your neighbor's property i can see the pergola from your gate i'm with you i'm not denying that so not from the gate actually from the from the other side where where my new neighbor now he's going to tear down the house by the way he's already set and he's going to build but we already talked and i said i'm going to block my side not because of the pergola because he's building anyway and i want my privacy so i'm going to screen it but just toward the fence if you don't mind i just can't see it from any part of any neighbor's property so you did it and again you did a great job on your sports court so if you can do the exact same thing on this then i'll be happy but both not just that one those plants behind it drop their leaves so if i go up to your fence i can see it if i go up to your fence on this side i can see the pergola i need to go into your backyard to see the pergolas i see but could you make an exception because nobody had ever complained about so when we think about exceptions i think about exceptions for people who already asked for permission you're asking for forgiveness yes so that's my difference that's okay so when we ask for forgiveness usually you have to do extra now does that make sense or if you want we can just take that pergola down and we can find a way to work together which pergola the wooded one sure okay now do you have an aerial view of my yard because

  74. your gate i'm with you i'm not denying that so not from the gate actually from the from the other side where where my new neighbor now he's going to tear down the house by the way he's already set and he's going to build but we already talked and i said i'm going to block my side not because of the pergola because he's building anyway and i want my privacy so i'm going to screen it but just toward the fence if you don't mind i just can't see it from any part of any neighbor's property so you did it and again you did a great job on your sports court so if you can do the exact same thing on this then i'll be happy but both not just that one those plants behind it drop their leaves so if i go up to your fence i can see it if i go up to your fence on this side i can see the pergola i need to go into your backyard to see the pergolas i see but could you make an exception because nobody had ever complained about so when we think about exceptions i think about exceptions for people who already asked for permission you're asking for forgiveness yes so that's my difference that's okay so when we ask for forgiveness usually you have to do extra now does that make sense or if you want we can just take that pergola down and we can find a way to work together which pergola the wooded one sure okay now do you have an aerial view of my yard because i already prepared for this um how can i point it out i have an area in the back behind where i put the the arms around the court so and it's it's like very wooded there's a lot of trees you can't even see there's a bonfire there like a natural one nice one is it okay if i move that pergola and put it there so it will be covered from every angle we have to re-notice it i i think it'd probably be if it's closer to a neighbor based on what was noticed i think it would be appropriate to have the proposed location properly noticed so we have to do a re-notice okay so and then a quick question that the the plantings that you say are back there are they deciduous or are they evergreen like you said it's dense but yeah it's dense yeah you it's hard to see like i said i'm clearly like stating this i have i think most of those are trees that drop their leaves yeah he did plant nice again around a sports court he did what we needed we need to do that again so you have to tell me or us

  75. work together which pergola the wooded one sure okay now do you have an aerial view of my yard because i already prepared for this um how can i point it out i have an area in the back behind where i put the the arms around the court so and it's it's like very wooded there's a lot of trees you can't even see there's a bonfire there like a natural one nice one is it okay if i move that pergola and put it there so it will be covered from every angle we have to re-notice it i i think it'd probably be if it's closer to a neighbor based on what was noticed i think it would be appropriate to have the proposed location properly noticed so we have to do a re-notice okay so and then a quick question that the the plantings that you say are back there are they deciduous or are they evergreen like you said it's dense but yeah it's dense yeah you it's hard to see like i said i'm clearly like stating this i have i think most of those are trees that drop their leaves yeah he did plant nice again around a sports court he did what we needed we need to do that again so you have to tell me or us if you're willing to plan plantings around those can i can't i can't vote no no i understand so even if you put it in that back corner we might be asking you for i see the trees they all have to be screened yeah yeah then let's leave it as is but is it okay if i put it toward the fence if i can't see it from the neighbor's property or public view yeah that it's great yes and then are you requiring any certain fee or is it okay right now to like i'm going to use the word that you guys used earlier this afternoon can i get i'm glad you're listening i appreciate that that's going to come back to bite us um well but this is a different case this is not case by case yeah this is not the same thing the which so let's the highest number you have here is eight feet so again we're not talking about a 15 foot tree like the last people had to plant or some people have planted 20 25 foot trees and not blinked an eye we're asking for eight foot trees that are evergreen style so i think that is a reason that is going to be my request i think that's a reasonable ask okay because the eight feet they really like i already spent all my money on other ones the emerald we had to get the emerald the one that deers don't you know deers don't eat them and you're shaded in the back

  76. around a sports court he did what we needed we need to do that again so you have to tell me or us if you're willing to plan plantings around those can i can't i can't vote no no i understand so even if you put it in that back corner we might be asking you for i see the trees they all have to be screened yeah yeah then let's leave it as is but is it okay if i put it toward the fence if i can't see it from the neighbor's property or public view yeah that it's great yes and then are you requiring any certain fee or is it okay right now to like i'm going to use the word that you guys used earlier this afternoon can i get i'm glad you're listening i appreciate that that's going to come back to bite us um well but this is a different case this is not case by case yeah this is not the same thing the which so let's the highest number you have here is eight feet so again we're not talking about a 15 foot tree like the last people had to plant or some people have planted 20 25 foot trees and not blinked an eye we're asking for eight foot trees that are evergreen style so i think that is a reason that is going to be my request i think that's a reasonable ask okay because the eight feet they really like i already spent all my money on other ones the emerald we had to get the emerald the one that deers don't you know deers don't eat them and you're shaded in the back okay can i get away with some arms around like five foot right now and i'll water them quick would that be part of the softening can i get away with it amen yes so you're asking for forgiveness not permission if you came here asking for permission and already did it i i would be more inclined to work with you but you already did this and you it came about when they followed up on something you already asked for so i am not okay with you planting five foot trees the rest of my board may be different i don't want to speak for everybody okay but for me for one vote that is a no so you can see if somebody else will say well i don't want to cause an issue but whatever you guys want and again i appreciate it i understand screening the gazebo the that type of pergola yeah it's not i don't feel needs screening you know i mean if there's something along the property line fine but I mean it's just an airy structure like that that are just yeah this is this is not really it's so I I mean I can understand we're just kind of a frame as opposed to a solid structure so we could you know

  77. the emerald the one that deers don't you know deers don't eat them and you're shaded in the back okay can i get away with some arms around like five foot right now and i'll water them quick would that be part of the softening can i get away with it amen yes so you're asking for forgiveness not permission if you came here asking for permission and already did it i i would be more inclined to work with you but you already did this and you it came about when they followed up on something you already asked for so i am not okay with you planting five foot trees the rest of my board may be different i don't want to speak for everybody okay but for me for one vote that is a no so you can see if somebody else will say well i don't want to cause an issue but whatever you guys want and again i appreciate it i understand screening the gazebo the that type of pergola yeah it's not i don't feel needs screening you know i mean if there's something along the property line fine but I mean it's just an airy structure like that that are just yeah this is this is not really it's so I I mean I can understand we're just kind of a frame as opposed to a solid structure so we could you know you're the screening around the gazebo and the hot tub mm-hmm how does that can you do that to the height of the structure yeah the black one yeah good yeah can reach the middle ground yes okay so you said the black one the one that's built in the structure that's kind of standalone the one that has the roof and everything close this house yeah yeah just a deciduous around it I would agree I would respectfully disagree with that that's okay what I'm sorry oh we're still discussing hopefully you want it around all of the structures I do we're asking for forgiveness on something that we did in this case he's mentioned if you want some privacy this helps them do that I agree with with Carol that the pergola it's very nature is like an area that's what I'm saying so for me yeah yeah I think there's another period

  78. we're just kind of a frame as opposed to a solid structure so we could you know you're the screening around the gazebo and the hot tub mm-hmm how does that can you do that to the height of the structure yeah the black one yeah good yeah can reach the middle ground yes okay so you said the black one the one that's built in the structure that's kind of standalone the one that has the roof and everything close this house yeah yeah just a deciduous around it I would agree I would respectfully disagree with that that's okay what I'm sorry oh we're still discussing hopefully you want it around all of the structures I do we're asking for forgiveness on something that we did in this case he's mentioned if you want some privacy this helps them do that I agree with with Carol that the pergola it's very nature is like an area that's what I'm saying so for me yeah yeah I think there's another period was like that where we don't require the most we do is take pictures underneath that's all just for now we're discussing I appreciate your yes I think so this why don't we make a motion and what we have to do public we haven't done that open the public hearing I would like to comment on this closed public hearing I'd like to make a motion in regards to the appeal at 5721 Kenmore permission request for gazebo hot tub and pergola I make a motion to approve the three structures as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 7.6 standards the size of the accessory structures are compatible with joining properties the locations of the accessory structures all exceed our minimum setback from neighbors and the the structures are harmonious with the neighborhood there's other structures like this and accent the house and there's no dimensional appeal right so given those I move the approval with the inclusion that

  79. was like that where we don't require the most we do is take pictures underneath that's all just for now we're discussing I appreciate your yes I think so this why don't we make a motion and what we have to do public we haven't done that open the public hearing I would like to comment on this closed public hearing I'd like to make a motion in regards to the appeal at 5721 Kenmore permission request for gazebo hot tub and pergola I make a motion to approve the three structures as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 7.6 standards the size of the accessory structures are compatible with joining properties the locations of the accessory structures all exceed our minimum setback from neighbors and the the structures are harmonious with the neighborhood there's other structures like this and accent the house and there's no dimensional appeal right so given those I move the approval with the inclusion that the the the two northerly structures both be completely screened from public view with evergreen screening that are at the height of this structure at the time of well at the time of now and if this motions approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days given that this is a forgiveness situation so I have a motion support discussion so all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed nay motion carries six to one with the Kulinski being the single note okay your request is as modified so you understand what you have to screen you have to screen you too okay yes okay and screen it the same way did the sports court stop really well the closest yep okay all right thanks very much all right thank you I appreciate everyone okay so Carol I'm gonna let you run this I'm gonna step

  80. dimensional appeal right so given those I move the approval with the inclusion that the the the two northerly structures both be completely screened from public view with evergreen screening that are at the height of this structure at the time of well at the time of now and if this motions approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days given that this is a forgiveness situation so I have a motion support discussion so all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed nay motion carries six to one with the Kulinski being the single note okay your request is as modified so you understand what you have to screen you have to screen you too okay yes okay and screen it the same way did the sports court stop really well the closest yep okay all right thanks very much all right thank you I appreciate everyone okay so Carol I'm gonna let you run this I'm gonna step away you can run this item there you go back back in the chair see there you go calling item number 10 1375 scenic court go ahead 1375 scenic court Todd Stamper my wife Pauline sitting down mr. Kulinski it's a permission and a forgiveness maybe here several years ago I went in front of you guys we've did all we've done a ton of work to the house the two pillars that are on side for the gate that were put in for the gate are kind of built into the driveway those were put in that i believe we came in front of you again for a six foot ornamental fence a long echo with pillars that portion was denied i was under the assumption that the other two pillars were fine but they're six feet tall we were just going to take them down to four feet and then when the design came in for the gate the driveway's on an angle so if i put a four foot gate on a four foot the gate would end up being like two feet it'd look kind of ridiculous so if you kind of see how it goes so there's kind of a little bit of a hardship and as well as design um the pillars are you know they're not i mean those two pictures look pretty noticeable it doesn't look like that really you can't really

  81. you I appreciate everyone okay so Carol I'm gonna let you run this I'm gonna step away you can run this item there you go back back in the chair see there you go calling item number 10 1375 scenic court go ahead 1375 scenic court Todd Stamper my wife Pauline sitting down mr. Kulinski it's a permission and a forgiveness maybe here several years ago I went in front of you guys we've did all we've done a ton of work to the house the two pillars that are on side for the gate that were put in for the gate are kind of built into the driveway those were put in that i believe we came in front of you again for a six foot ornamental fence a long echo with pillars that portion was denied i was under the assumption that the other two pillars were fine but they're six feet tall we were just going to take them down to four feet and then when the design came in for the gate the driveway's on an angle so if i put a four foot gate on a four foot the gate would end up being like two feet it'd look kind of ridiculous so if you kind of see how it goes so there's kind of a little bit of a hardship and as well as design um the pillars are you know they're not i mean those two pictures look pretty noticeable it doesn't look like that really you can't really notice them um they're on the side i don't have any neighbors um i know about a month and a half ago i was you guys summons to have us come and uh be a part of the six foot ornamental fence that's going on kirk of the hills all the way down echo i'm really the only one that can see their fence that was approved and i don't care it's fine um for the future i might want to come back for a reconsideration for an ornamental fence as i stated four years ago we get a lot of kids that come up there um the ferris bueller garage attracts a lot of people um last week we had uh 10 kids that weren't from the neighborhood knock on the door ask my wife what we did for a living wanted to take pictures we ended up calling the police because they just weren't kids from the neighborhood uh ended up making a police report people drive up that side of the driveway all the time the plan is in the future off of scenic which we don't need zba approval for we just need permitting uh joe and debbie dumars and myself are in agreeance our one neighbor we're just waiting uh they said they just want to wait a few more years and we're actually going to gate off scenic uh we get people that skateboard in there they drive their e-bikes up the driveway uh just it's not stopped um so we're just uh looking to put gates in off echo to stop

  82. not i mean those two pictures look pretty noticeable it doesn't look like that really you can't really notice them um they're on the side i don't have any neighbors um i know about a month and a half ago i was you guys summons to have us come and uh be a part of the six foot ornamental fence that's going on kirk of the hills all the way down echo i'm really the only one that can see their fence that was approved and i don't care it's fine um for the future i might want to come back for a reconsideration for an ornamental fence as i stated four years ago we get a lot of kids that come up there um the ferris bueller garage attracts a lot of people um last week we had uh 10 kids that weren't from the neighborhood knock on the door ask my wife what we did for a living wanted to take pictures we ended up calling the police because they just weren't kids from the neighborhood uh ended up making a police report people drive up that side of the driveway all the time the plan is in the future off of scenic which we don't need zba approval for we just need permitting uh joe and debbie dumars and myself are in agreeance our one neighbor we're just waiting uh they said they just want to wait a few more years and we're actually going to gate off scenic uh we get people that skateboard in there they drive their e-bikes up the driveway uh just it's not stopped um so we're just uh looking to put gates in off echo to stop that traffic and um so a little bit like i said uh permission and forgiveness it's been a long journey it's been like three years kind of going back and forth so right now where it stands the pillars are there i don't plan on illuminating even though the wires are there for it they're capped off it's it's dark and i have some landscape lighting it's pretty um i'd like the option to but right now i'm not going to and the gate will be up is is set to be a four foot gate but it'll be mounted up higher so that it can when it opens it clears the driveway on an angle any questions quick question if they swung out um they would encroach and i wouldn't be able to pull in i'd be turning left and echo does not have a speed limit it's not enforceable people go 55 down there i've actually we have uh ai cameras and i pick up speed um and If I showed you guys the average speed, you'd be like, wow, that's dangerous. I mean, the kids, especially coming out of Bluefield High School, it's insane. That straightaway is crazy. It's like Tokyo Drift through there. No, it's not even funny. It's crazy. So with the gates swinging out, we would have to be in traffic.

  83. the driveway uh just it's not stopped um so we're just uh looking to put gates in off echo to stop that traffic and um so a little bit like i said uh permission and forgiveness it's been a long journey it's been like three years kind of going back and forth so right now where it stands the pillars are there i don't plan on illuminating even though the wires are there for it they're capped off it's it's dark and i have some landscape lighting it's pretty um i'd like the option to but right now i'm not going to and the gate will be up is is set to be a four foot gate but it'll be mounted up higher so that it can when it opens it clears the driveway on an angle any questions quick question if they swung out um they would encroach and i wouldn't be able to pull in i'd be turning left and echo does not have a speed limit it's not enforceable people go 55 down there i've actually we have uh ai cameras and i pick up speed um and If I showed you guys the average speed, you'd be like, wow, that's dangerous. I mean, the kids, especially coming out of Bluefield High School, it's insane. That straightaway is crazy. It's like Tokyo Drift through there. No, it's not even funny. It's crazy. So with the gates swinging out, we would have to be in traffic. Well, we're 16 feet out, but if you pulled in, you might be sticking out a little bit. We looked at it. Also, too, with the grade difference, those gates would be swinging out. They would be off the ground. Right. Really high. I lived by this property for decades, so I know this area very well. I just was wondering why you even added that second entryway, because before this house was just accessed off a scenic drive. It sort of creates these problems for you and seems unnecessary. Well, first of all, we generally, everybody each zone on how they want their property to look with proper approvals. The driveway is an entrance based on the foliage by my neighbor's house. You literally have to creep out, and you can still get hit by a car. Originally, it was my daughters that are now in college when we did this four years ago. When they were driving, all of that you couldn't see. You still can't. When you turn left off of scenic, you have to creep out, because those cars are coming literally at 40 miles an hour. So that gives us both access in and out.

  84. So with the gates swinging out, we would have to be in traffic. Well, we're 16 feet out, but if you pulled in, you might be sticking out a little bit. We looked at it. Also, too, with the grade difference, those gates would be swinging out. They would be off the ground. Right. Really high. I lived by this property for decades, so I know this area very well. I just was wondering why you even added that second entryway, because before this house was just accessed off a scenic drive. It sort of creates these problems for you and seems unnecessary. Well, first of all, we generally, everybody each zone on how they want their property to look with proper approvals. The driveway is an entrance based on the foliage by my neighbor's house. You literally have to creep out, and you can still get hit by a car. Originally, it was my daughters that are now in college when we did this four years ago. When they were driving, all of that you couldn't see. You still can't. When you turn left off of scenic, you have to creep out, because those cars are coming literally at 40 miles an hour. So that gives us both access in and out. both sides and i like the look of it and i also when we put the garage in wanted that that separate entrance and i i believe having a corner lot um also the grade difference if you remember how the house used to be if there was a little bit of snow you couldn't get up the driveway we had to park in the street i literally yeah i remember this whole frontage though was all vegetation where you have this yeah that's correct that's what it used to look like that's correct and that kind of prompted the grade being a lot easier to get out of the driveway instead of the driveway being like this because it used to be literally we'd park in the street if there's if it snowed when we were out we'd have to park in the street i'd have to go show over the drive we changed the whole elevation when we did the construction any questions any other questions all right gonna open the public hearing i knew there'd be some people here i remember there were people last time come on up well she's coming up was that correct is there a six foot ornamental fence that was approved all along echo no no no because it's all staked up we did not approve the hills in their backyard either oh no you're are you talking about your property no no across echo on the dirt road a back long kirk in the hills i see all the stakes

  85. both sides and i like the look of it and i also when we put the garage in wanted that that separate entrance and i i believe having a corner lot um also the grade difference if you remember how the house used to be if there was a little bit of snow you couldn't get up the driveway we had to park in the street i literally yeah i remember this whole frontage though was all vegetation where you have this yeah that's correct that's what it used to look like that's correct and that kind of prompted the grade being a lot easier to get out of the driveway instead of the driveway being like this because it used to be literally we'd park in the street if there's if it snowed when we were out we'd have to park in the street i'd have to go show over the drive we changed the whole elevation when we did the construction any questions any other questions all right gonna open the public hearing i knew there'd be some people here i remember there were people last time come on up well she's coming up was that correct is there a six foot ornamental fence that was approved all along echo no no no because it's all staked up we did not approve the hills in their backyard either oh no you're are you talking about your property no no across echo on the dirt road a back long kirk in the hills i see all the stakes they were just they were just filling in is that what parts that were where the fence was missing okay because there's several different style fences yeah and that's a you know that's a gated community sure yeah Come on up. Yeah, I'm sorry. I think I'll do it again. Hi, I'm Vera Coolis. I live at 4820 Echo Road. Happy to be his name. And I am, we've only lived there since 1975. And we are come out on a curve, and I'm just going to kind of backtrack a little bit what he was saying here about the danger coming out onto the road. We've lived there quite a few years. Can't see left or right either. We just, you know, have to creep out, which is part of living in a natural area.

  86. your property no no across echo on the dirt road a back long kirk in the hills i see all the stakes they were just they were just filling in is that what parts that were where the fence was missing okay because there's several different style fences yeah and that's a you know that's a gated community sure yeah Come on up. Yeah, I'm sorry. I think I'll do it again. Hi, I'm Vera Coolis. I live at 4820 Echo Road. Happy to be his name. And I am, we've only lived there since 1975. And we are come out on a curve, and I'm just going to kind of backtrack a little bit what he was saying here about the danger coming out onto the road. We've lived there quite a few years. Can't see left or right either. We just, you know, have to creep out, which is part of living in a natural area. The kids he's talking about, I'm not sure, because we never had any trouble with that. But they do run from some of the high school and the middle schools. They do use our road for running during cross-country time. And we don't know that they're there. And sometimes problems happen that way. But I've never had them vandalize or come up and do anything. But I'm going back. I'm going back. on the uh literature on the um that i was reading just before here it says that the pillars are going into a front yard which is this is not a front yard it's a um east of his it's a side yard i guess a side yard that faces echo road and echo road is a natural beauty road where i talked about before and there are certain rules and regulations that govern natural beauty roads and setbacks for leaving nature as it was in this case the nature has been destroyed for his entire east side now the uh he put in boulders he altered the water flow he um yeah what else they put in um took out

  87. which is part of living in a natural area. The kids he's talking about, I'm not sure, because we never had any trouble with that. But they do run from some of the high school and the middle schools. They do use our road for running during cross-country time. And we don't know that they're there. And sometimes problems happen that way. But I've never had them vandalize or come up and do anything. But I'm going back. I'm going back. on the uh literature on the um that i was reading just before here it says that the pillars are going into a front yard which is this is not a front yard it's a um east of his it's a side yard i guess a side yard that faces echo road and echo road is a natural beauty road where i talked about before and there are certain rules and regulations that govern natural beauty roads and setbacks for leaving nature as it was in this case the nature has been destroyed for his entire east side now the uh he put in boulders he altered the water flow he um yeah what else they put in um took out the natural plants excavated everything so that he had elevated to make his driveway that he wants to put this gate on it's quite a steep angle and so he had to make the driveway to quite a steep angle to get up to where he wanted it to and also on the let's see the south side they had to actually fill in with the dirt and he excavated all the dirt into making his as he called it the ferris bueller garage to make it where it is he had to take out all the soil and and put in boulders put in grass took out and he had to make it to the ground and that he did it to the ground and that he was going to make it and he was trying to get it to the ground There is nothing that is from the Natural Beauty Road except some tall trees, which are really suffering now. If you go down and look, they are suffering. They're either dead or they're on their way. There are no leaves on a lot of them. So whatever he did with the excavating has destroyed some of the major trees that he did leave standing. Also, next to where he wants this gate, there's another driveway. It's a gravel driveway going back.

  88. now the uh he put in boulders he altered the water flow he um yeah what else they put in um took out the natural plants excavated everything so that he had elevated to make his driveway that he wants to put this gate on it's quite a steep angle and so he had to make the driveway to quite a steep angle to get up to where he wanted it to and also on the let's see the south side they had to actually fill in with the dirt and he excavated all the dirt into making his as he called it the ferris bueller garage to make it where it is he had to take out all the soil and and put in boulders put in grass took out and he had to make it to the ground and that he did it to the ground and that he was going to make it and he was trying to get it to the ground There is nothing that is from the Natural Beauty Road except some tall trees, which are really suffering now. If you go down and look, they are suffering. They're either dead or they're on their way. There are no leaves on a lot of them. So whatever he did with the excavating has destroyed some of the major trees that he did leave standing. Also, next to where he wants this gate, there's another driveway. It's a gravel driveway going back. So he has actually four driveways, two on Scenic, two on Echo. And so I don't know how these things get approved or not approved or if you have to approve them. I'm not sure how that goes. And I'm not very good at this because I'm talking for more emotion than I am from being a correct in a lot of these things. So the gate that he's talking about, when it does open the way he's talking about, will hit the driveway because it's on a steep angle. If it opens and closes from going on the east side of the driveway rather than the west, then it will close. Like he said, the pillars were denied at a meeting that I was at. One of the meetings that we're at, they were denied. And so was the gate that he wanted to add on. And we thought that was sort of the end of it. And so now he wants to... The pillars seem to have been erected. I don't know if they were erected with permission or not, but they are still there. So he's trying to add a fence on the pillars, which I don't know if they've been approved or not. So it's possibly an unapproved pillar, putting an unapproved gate possibly on those pillars.

  89. It's a gravel driveway going back. So he has actually four driveways, two on Scenic, two on Echo. And so I don't know how these things get approved or not approved or if you have to approve them. I'm not sure how that goes. And I'm not very good at this because I'm talking for more emotion than I am from being a correct in a lot of these things. So the gate that he's talking about, when it does open the way he's talking about, will hit the driveway because it's on a steep angle. If it opens and closes from going on the east side of the driveway rather than the west, then it will close. Like he said, the pillars were denied at a meeting that I was at. One of the meetings that we're at, they were denied. And so was the gate that he wanted to add on. And we thought that was sort of the end of it. And so now he wants to... The pillars seem to have been erected. I don't know if they were erected with permission or not, but they are still there. So he's trying to add a fence on the pillars, which I don't know if they've been approved or not. So it's possibly an unapproved pillar, putting an unapproved gate possibly on those pillars. I do have a little bit of a copy, if you wanted to look up online what a natural beauty road is. This is not all of it. I put on Oakland County and there are specifications of how much natural vegetation and soil you need to leave from the road to whatever you're going to develop. And that, I know we have to kind of follow that ourselves. Let's see here. So I'm kind of a little bit at a quandary about the purpose of the gate and taking away all the soil to make that area look the way it looks right now. If you have any questions, ask me because I don't know if I covered everything. I'll put it in my notes here. Does anyone have any questions? Okay. Thank you very much for your comments. You're welcome.

  90. The pillars seem to have been erected. I don't know if they were erected with permission or not, but they are still there. So he's trying to add a fence on the pillars, which I don't know if they've been approved or not. So it's possibly an unapproved pillar, putting an unapproved gate possibly on those pillars. I do have a little bit of a copy, if you wanted to look up online what a natural beauty road is. This is not all of it. I put on Oakland County and there are specifications of how much natural vegetation and soil you need to leave from the road to whatever you're going to develop. And that, I know we have to kind of follow that ourselves. Let's see here. So I'm kind of a little bit at a quandary about the purpose of the gate and taking away all the soil to make that area look the way it looks right now. If you have any questions, ask me because I don't know if I covered everything. I'll put it in my notes here. Does anyone have any questions? Okay. Thank you very much for your comments. You're welcome. also comello four four five zero echo road and I live a little bit further north from this property I first want to commend the homeowners for doing a great job actually making the house look a lot better where I am a bit confused is how we got into this problem in the first place and that is because that driveway was never there on echo road that was man-made afterwards there was no approval for that and since the last meeting which was September 10 2024 and I was there that had to be looked look through they had to be figured out who actually has decision rights on that driveway whether that is permitted on echo road or not and we were in the same conundrum where it was already built but we're asking for forgiveness at that time it was asked if they could have these pillars and defense and at that time it was denied by miss Rosati but those

  91. also comello four four five zero echo road and I live a little bit further north from this property I first want to commend the homeowners for doing a great job actually making the house look a lot better where I am a bit confused is how we got into this problem in the first place and that is because that driveway was never there on echo road that was man-made afterwards there was no approval for that and since the last meeting which was September 10 2024 and I was there that had to be looked look through they had to be figured out who actually has decision rights on that driveway whether that is permitted on echo road or not and we were in the same conundrum where it was already built but we're asking for forgiveness at that time it was asked if they could have these pillars and defense and at that time it was denied by miss Rosati but those pillars were never torn down and when I read the application it says two existing pillars well they're existing because they weren't torn down so I'm not saying that it shouldn't be approved or should be denied I'm just saying that this is incorrect so I would like the zoning board of appeals to understand that I'd love this to be correct so that we have correct information for the board to decide on and I think that's important to note that's it thank you thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item so closed public hearing let the applicant respond sure there's only the three driveways on the side of the stone the drive the the driveway off echo that's just pea gravel there's trees there you can't park there nobody parks there the driveway was approved in the original plans when I brought them here I went to pull a permit and then the county who controls the vegetation which we worked out and I Bloomfield has given me a driveway permit I believe it's ready

  92. pillars and defense and at that time it was denied by miss Rosati but those pillars were never torn down and when I read the application it says two existing pillars well they're existing because they weren't torn down so I'm not saying that it shouldn't be approved or should be denied I'm just saying that this is incorrect so I would like the zoning board of appeals to understand that I'd love this to be correct so that we have correct information for the board to decide on and I think that's important to note that's it thank you thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item so closed public hearing let the applicant respond sure there's only the three driveways on the side of the stone the drive the the driveway off echo that's just pea gravel there's trees there you can't park there nobody parks there the driveway was approved in the original plans when I brought them here I went to pull a permit and then the county who controls the vegetation which we worked out and I Bloomfield has given me a driveway permit I believe it's ready only because the Road Commission was not requiring you to do the vegetation which was required quite a while ago correct so so it's mine at that time we had to issue the permit so we could have an inspection to ensure that was safe correct but it didn't mitigate the requirement right away right away permit and it's my understanding that the Oakland County Road Commission who is responsible for the beautification And we had a plan to put in like 20 feet because the way the lot lines are, there was like a 20 foot section off of the echo road and Macomb County, or I'm sorry, Oakland County road commission just came in and took seven trees out of that whole entire area. Um, they were cut down about maybe a month ago. I absolutely agreed with him when I said that to Mr. Klinsky, that the fence, those two pillars are built into the rock structure. They were put in prior to me coming in for the, all the fences and the rest of the pillars and, um, that fence and the pillars, a long echo were denied. Okay. I, I, I don't believe at that time that I either a understood that the pillars for the gate were a part of the fence.

  93. worked out and I Bloomfield has given me a driveway permit I believe it's ready only because the Road Commission was not requiring you to do the vegetation which was required quite a while ago correct so so it's mine at that time we had to issue the permit so we could have an inspection to ensure that was safe correct but it didn't mitigate the requirement right away right away permit and it's my understanding that the Oakland County Road Commission who is responsible for the beautification And we had a plan to put in like 20 feet because the way the lot lines are, there was like a 20 foot section off of the echo road and Macomb County, or I'm sorry, Oakland County road commission just came in and took seven trees out of that whole entire area. Um, they were cut down about maybe a month ago. I absolutely agreed with him when I said that to Mr. Klinsky, that the fence, those two pillars are built into the rock structure. They were put in prior to me coming in for the, all the fences and the rest of the pillars and, um, that fence and the pillars, a long echo were denied. Okay. I, I, I don't believe at that time that I either a understood that the pillars for the gate were a part of the fence. I thought the fence and the pillars, a long echo were denied because there's a road that was approved to be there. The road was built per your guys's approval. And I always want to have a gate. There's a ton of gates in the neighborhood right now. It's more of a hardship of for me to have a gate to stop access of the public off echo and kids riding on my driveway and anything else is I would for a four foot gate, which is your guys's requirement. Those pillars need to be two feet taller. I believe the requirement is on the side that if I cut the pillars down to four feet, I would have a two foot gate, maybe a two and a half foot gate, and it would look absolutely terrible. So I'm asking the board for forgiveness and permission to put a four foot gate on my six foot pillars. That's one of my six foot pillars. Thank you. um so i didn't i was here at the start so how long have those piers been there then they've been there since we built the road whatever it was it was prior to the those two pillars were the structure of those piers were built prior to i think even me coming in for the zba for the rest of the fencing and the other stuff those were there they weren't wrapped in aluminum or anything the zba and the you guys denied the fencing along echo and the other pillars and those were there

  94. for the gate were a part of the fence. I thought the fence and the pillars, a long echo were denied because there's a road that was approved to be there. The road was built per your guys's approval. And I always want to have a gate. There's a ton of gates in the neighborhood right now. It's more of a hardship of for me to have a gate to stop access of the public off echo and kids riding on my driveway and anything else is I would for a four foot gate, which is your guys's requirement. Those pillars need to be two feet taller. I believe the requirement is on the side that if I cut the pillars down to four feet, I would have a two foot gate, maybe a two and a half foot gate, and it would look absolutely terrible. So I'm asking the board for forgiveness and permission to put a four foot gate on my six foot pillars. That's one of my six foot pillars. Thank you. um so i didn't i was here at the start so how long have those piers been there then they've been there since we built the road whatever it was it was prior to the those two pillars were the structure of those piers were built prior to i think even me coming in for the zba for the rest of the fencing and the other stuff those were there they weren't wrapped in aluminum or anything the zba and the you guys denied the fencing along echo and the other pillars and those were there so my intent was to come back in we denied it all yeah we denied it all yeah and i i i i i understand that that's i'm telling you that's i had them there already so i was going to come back in to do it again and they had said no you can't do it through planning it would it would it was already all denied and they said come back in under an existing structure explain it explain what you have going on and things have different in the last three years things are just different um different with security reasons different with just the way behavior patterns are so well to get them to swing out is like the only way we're going to lower these things anywhere towards compliance you stated that there's not enough backing distance being difficult to echo road that presumes you're keeping those but If you did new pillars, if we approved new pillars further back that gave you stacking distance for one car to wait for those gates to open, and they opened out, I guess we would have to come back and show us the mathematics or the geometry of whether you can get the piers down to four feet and the gates.

  95. the zba and the you guys denied the fencing along echo and the other pillars and those were there so my intent was to come back in we denied it all yeah we denied it all yeah and i i i i i understand that that's i'm telling you that's i had them there already so i was going to come back in to do it again and they had said no you can't do it through planning it would it would it was already all denied and they said come back in under an existing structure explain it explain what you have going on and things have different in the last three years things are just different um different with security reasons different with just the way behavior patterns are so well to get them to swing out is like the only way we're going to lower these things anywhere towards compliance you stated that there's not enough backing distance being difficult to echo road that presumes you're keeping those but If you did new pillars, if we approved new pillars further back that gave you stacking distance for one car to wait for those gates to open, and they opened out, I guess we would have to come back and show us the mathematics or the geometry of whether you can get the piers down to four feet and the gates. I actually disagree if they swing out. We have four-foot piers with gates. What's that? We do have four-foot piers with gates in the township. Yeah, so I'm looking for you to get to that, and I think you can. And I know you said, oh, they won't be aesthetically pleasing, but if your argument is safety and security, a four-foot gate will stop any of those people coming in, and you might be able to accomplish it by doing a four-foot gate, moving it back, but you would have to come to us with that. I understand that, and what I'm saying to the board is that I would have to take out those boulders, cut the drive, dig new footings. I can just cut two feet off of those and put a two-foot gate on it and leave it, and then I'm within compliance, I believe. And swing it out? No, they can swing it anywhere they want. It would just be a short gate. I am literally just trying to get so it doesn't look ridiculous. But the six-foot pillars that are illuminated are still not supposed to be there. Oh, yeah, the illumination. So you've already agreed you will leave this non-illuminated. I'll never illuminate them. There's landscape lighting. It's fine.

  96. If you did new pillars, if we approved new pillars further back that gave you stacking distance for one car to wait for those gates to open, and they opened out, I guess we would have to come back and show us the mathematics or the geometry of whether you can get the piers down to four feet and the gates. I actually disagree if they swing out. We have four-foot piers with gates. What's that? We do have four-foot piers with gates in the township. Yeah, so I'm looking for you to get to that, and I think you can. And I know you said, oh, they won't be aesthetically pleasing, but if your argument is safety and security, a four-foot gate will stop any of those people coming in, and you might be able to accomplish it by doing a four-foot gate, moving it back, but you would have to come to us with that. I understand that, and what I'm saying to the board is that I would have to take out those boulders, cut the drive, dig new footings. I can just cut two feet off of those and put a two-foot gate on it and leave it, and then I'm within compliance, I believe. And swing it out? No, they can swing it anywhere they want. It would just be a short gate. I am literally just trying to get so it doesn't look ridiculous. But the six-foot pillars that are illuminated are still not supposed to be there. Oh, yeah, the illumination. So you've already agreed you will leave this non-illuminated. I'll never illuminate them. There's landscape lighting. It's fine. okay so they saw the wires there but so no and four feet tall yeah if I do four feet tall you're gonna see a two-foot gate it'll look ridiculous but I am definitely not gonna spend the money to tear up all the boulders and move everything back I wouldn't be able to do that I guess I have a point of clarification for Andrea how are we allowed to approve something that was already denied this went to court there were I don't know if there was one or two court dates mr. Stanford could probably define that and at that point it was suggested that this comes back to the zoning Board of Appeals for consideration under a new application but during that time I believe there was an effort from the ordinance during that time to remove those existing peers which was unsuccessful so here we are with a modified application I think what the court said is send it back in under this and if the ZBA denies it then you're within your right to go to the next level with it option I don't want to go to the next level I I don't think that I'm really they're not even quite at six feet they're like five foot like six or something like that

  97. okay so they saw the wires there but so no and four feet tall yeah if I do four feet tall you're gonna see a two-foot gate it'll look ridiculous but I am definitely not gonna spend the money to tear up all the boulders and move everything back I wouldn't be able to do that I guess I have a point of clarification for Andrea how are we allowed to approve something that was already denied this went to court there were I don't know if there was one or two court dates mr. Stanford could probably define that and at that point it was suggested that this comes back to the zoning Board of Appeals for consideration under a new application but during that time I believe there was an effort from the ordinance during that time to remove those existing peers which was unsuccessful so here we are with a modified application I think what the court said is send it back in under this and if the ZBA denies it then you're within your right to go to the next level with it option I don't want to go to the next level I I don't think that I'm really they're not even quite at six feet they're like five foot like six or something like that we're talking about inches just to not have this teeny little gate and not have to tear up a driveway the driveways heated I can't cut that driveway anyways there's seven miles of tubing going through it well if we had seen or had the proposal I understand that there it was a big project I made mistakes on it I'm fully admitting it I heard from my ordinance officer that the goal of the court but but his attorney wanted it to be argued that he was denied without a reason so we urged him to reapply we accepted the application he would agree to follow the ZBA ruling on the peers yeah I don't I don't I don't know that I I recall that a lot of reasons were articulated for our denial yeah I don't know what happened in court so I remember time about the driveway but I don't remember that I thought we yeah I remember the fence I don't remember my games I honestly don't know I thought it was for him to admit a couple things in the sense that I think you know having a gate for security is a good reason but did we talk about how it should be moved back excuse me should be moved back a

  98. even quite at six feet they're like five foot like six or something like that we're talking about inches just to not have this teeny little gate and not have to tear up a driveway the driveways heated I can't cut that driveway anyways there's seven miles of tubing going through it well if we had seen or had the proposal I understand that there it was a big project I made mistakes on it I'm fully admitting it I heard from my ordinance officer that the goal of the court but but his attorney wanted it to be argued that he was denied without a reason so we urged him to reapply we accepted the application he would agree to follow the ZBA ruling on the peers yeah I don't I don't I don't know that I I recall that a lot of reasons were articulated for our denial yeah I don't know what happened in court so I remember time about the driveway but I don't remember that I thought we yeah I remember the fence I don't remember my games I honestly don't know I thought it was for him to admit a couple things in the sense that I think you know having a gate for security is a good reason but did we talk about how it should be moved back excuse me should be moved back a little bit off of this natural beauty like frontage or what what is decided well there was a concern at the time that all the natural beauty material had been removed so yes it no longer look like it was asked to be had to take down yeah I mean there's to get a gate for security there's a lot of leeway to get what you want I mean I don't know if this is it but what can we do to help him get us gate this these may not be it the only reason I'm here tonight is because the way the way to the gates right the way the gates are made with the driveway it's not a steep drive you guys have been by they just because they're so wide it's just gonna hit when it opens it's more of a hardship you want the gates to swing out I don't even know if code will let the gates swing out I don't think the fire department let's gate swing out I think gates have to swing in what about at the top of the driveway what about what about at the top of the driveway what about landscaping so that driveway is really long if I put it at the top then the kids can just skateboard down the driveway it's it's within the 16 feet limit I'm within my limit of the property lines that's none

  99. did we talk about how it should be moved back excuse me should be moved back a little bit off of this natural beauty like frontage or what what is decided well there was a concern at the time that all the natural beauty material had been removed so yes it no longer look like it was asked to be had to take down yeah I mean there's to get a gate for security there's a lot of leeway to get what you want I mean I don't know if this is it but what can we do to help him get us gate this these may not be it the only reason I'm here tonight is because the way the way to the gates right the way the gates are made with the driveway it's not a steep drive you guys have been by they just because they're so wide it's just gonna hit when it opens it's more of a hardship you want the gates to swing out I don't even know if code will let the gates swing out I don't think the fire department let's gate swing out I think gates have to swing in what about at the top of the driveway what about what about at the top of the driveway what about landscaping so that driveway is really long if I put it at the top then the kids can just skateboard down the driveway it's it's within the 16 feet limit I'm within my limit of the property lines that's none of that is in question I'd love to work I've looked at a million different ways to do it sliding gates something that's not fully 18 feet wide you know maybe there's a little metal thing and you've got to yeah five foot gates to give you a 10 foot opening only one car is going to go through at a time yeah maybe at the bottom so it can clear when it opens so it's going to go up this way so when they open it hits here so maybe we ought to deal with this and he's free to come back and propose something different after listening to what we said yeah we were gonna have to come back but for me it's four feet I think the only option is to move it up the driveway so you can account I don't know that the gates can go this way. The driveway is angled all the way up. It would still open out. Yeah, I don't think, I don't know that you, I have to look at codes, but building my whole life, I have never seen a gate open out into traffic. But you have another entrance. What's that? You have another entrance to that driveway on the other side. Correct. There's two. Correct. So a fire truck can get in there through one of those. Listen, I'm not, that's, I'll just look at it. I'm not, I'm not disagreeing at all. No matter how far he moves them up the driveway,

  100. within the 16 feet limit I'm within my limit of the property lines that's none of that is in question I'd love to work I've looked at a million different ways to do it sliding gates something that's not fully 18 feet wide you know maybe there's a little metal thing and you've got to yeah five foot gates to give you a 10 foot opening only one car is going to go through at a time yeah maybe at the bottom so it can clear when it opens so it's going to go up this way so when they open it hits here so maybe we ought to deal with this and he's free to come back and propose something different after listening to what we said yeah we were gonna have to come back but for me it's four feet I think the only option is to move it up the driveway so you can account I don't know that the gates can go this way. The driveway is angled all the way up. It would still open out. Yeah, I don't think, I don't know that you, I have to look at codes, but building my whole life, I have never seen a gate open out into traffic. But you have another entrance. What's that? You have another entrance to that driveway on the other side. Correct. There's two. Correct. So a fire truck can get in there through one of those. Listen, I'm not, that's, I'll just look at it. I'm not, I'm not disagreeing at all. No matter how far he moves them up the driveway, there's still a permission request. He's still going to have to come back to us. Yeah, we still have our four foot requirement or, that's why we review things in the front yard. The board has to consider the request that's before them. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. We have to vote, we have to vote on what's in front of them, in front of us. I think based on the discussion, we can do that. Yeah, I don't think there's anybody that wants these peers. I mean, unless I'm, tell me, correct me if I'm. Well, and we had, we had ordered them removed within 30 days when we denied it. Right. And they were left there. But for the court action, right, you know, we'd be enforcing, we'd be enforcing what that decision was. And now we're just, I guess, giving that same decision with more reasons. Or it seems to me that's where we're at. I, I, Ms. O'Donnell, I, or, I. know who said it i i don't when we came in we approved a lot of things and i honestly don't remember i thought just the fence and the pillars for the fence were denied not the gate okay and that's the truth i'm not whatever your decision is tonight it is i if i would specifically heard

  101. No matter how far he moves them up the driveway, there's still a permission request. He's still going to have to come back to us. Yeah, we still have our four foot requirement or, that's why we review things in the front yard. The board has to consider the request that's before them. Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. We have to vote, we have to vote on what's in front of them, in front of us. I think based on the discussion, we can do that. Yeah, I don't think there's anybody that wants these peers. I mean, unless I'm, tell me, correct me if I'm. Well, and we had, we had ordered them removed within 30 days when we denied it. Right. And they were left there. But for the court action, right, you know, we'd be enforcing, we'd be enforcing what that decision was. And now we're just, I guess, giving that same decision with more reasons. Or it seems to me that's where we're at. I, I, Ms. O'Donnell, I, or, I. know who said it i i don't when we came in we approved a lot of things and i honestly don't remember i thought just the fence and the pillars for the fence were denied not the gate okay and that's the truth i'm not whatever your decision is tonight it is i if i would specifically heard in in the notice i had i believe said remove the fence or it was denied for the fence and the pillars it wasn't specific to the gate well i think i think the concept is when we told you know to the fence and the pillars you couldn't have a gate because there would be nothing to attach the gate to but in theory i can't have a gate it has to be four foot and it wasn't clear so that's what no you can't have a gate because we ordered those peers removed if i cut them down to four feet i can put a gate on it no you can't unless we tell you you can have a four four foot peers i thought four foot peers were legal in the in the town it still requires approval okay i thought four foot fencing was the requirement but that in the front yard still has to come to us okay i'm asking i'm not again i'm trying to learn through the through the situation so if i cut those to four foot would they be approved you have to come back not by me but you know it's a motion made by the board i don't know what motion the motion's in front like you said but we can vote on it you guys can go ahead no i said i'm good thank you

  102. that's the truth i'm not whatever your decision is tonight it is i if i would specifically heard in in the notice i had i believe said remove the fence or it was denied for the fence and the pillars it wasn't specific to the gate well i think i think the concept is when we told you know to the fence and the pillars you couldn't have a gate because there would be nothing to attach the gate to but in theory i can't have a gate it has to be four foot and it wasn't clear so that's what no you can't have a gate because we ordered those peers removed if i cut them down to four feet i can put a gate on it no you can't unless we tell you you can have a four four foot peers i thought four foot peers were legal in the in the town it still requires approval okay i thought four foot fencing was the requirement but that in the front yard still has to come to us okay i'm asking i'm not again i'm trying to learn through the through the situation so if i cut those to four foot would they be approved you have to come back not by me but you know it's a motion made by the board i don't know what motion the motion's in front like you said but we can vote on it you guys can go ahead no i said i'm good thank you this is someone ready to make a motion regarding the question that's in front of us are you withdrawing your your application no okay I'll make a motion in regards to the appeal at 17 at 1375 scenic court I move I make a motion to deny the dimensional variance for the six-foot high illuminated peers as shown on the drawing based on the information presented the applicant did not demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty compliance with the strict letter the ordinance would not be unduly burdensome in finding a way to have some security on this property with multiple access points that driveway there's no injustice than neighboring you joining neighbors due to the fact of the natural features that could be more readily maintained and it is self-created so that's for the dimensional variance yes for the height of the peers

  103. this is someone ready to make a motion regarding the question that's in front of us are you withdrawing your your application no okay I'll make a motion in regards to the appeal at 17 at 1375 scenic court I move I make a motion to deny the dimensional variance for the six-foot high illuminated peers as shown on the drawing based on the information presented the applicant did not demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty compliance with the strict letter the ordinance would not be unduly burdensome in finding a way to have some security on this property with multiple access points that driveway there's no injustice than neighboring you joining neighbors due to the fact of the natural features that could be more readily maintained and it is self-created so that's for the dimensional variance yes for the height of the peers that's all we need for front yard location or the front yard location of the six-foot peers yes I don't have language for that But if this motion passes, the peers need to be removed until such a time as you want to come back for something that has a hardship. Within 60 days? Within 60 days. Thank you. Of approval of the meeting minutes. Is that what we're saying? Just so he's clear. Support? So I have a motion in support. Any discussion of the motion? Have we, is that, that's just for the dimensional variance. Yeah, but if that's denied it. You don't need the permission. Right. We could address it two separate ways, but, okay, no, never mind. I feel that we, you know, if this is denied, which, okay, there's a second to the motion, then it gives you the opportunity to come back with something that you can get. Trace? Point of clarification from? I would recommend that that is the case, that you say you deny without prejudice to allow him the opportunity to come back.

  104. so that's for the dimensional variance yes for the height of the peers that's all we need for front yard location or the front yard location of the six-foot peers yes I don't have language for that But if this motion passes, the peers need to be removed until such a time as you want to come back for something that has a hardship. Within 60 days? Within 60 days. Thank you. Of approval of the meeting minutes. Is that what we're saying? Just so he's clear. Support? So I have a motion in support. Any discussion of the motion? Have we, is that, that's just for the dimensional variance. Yeah, but if that's denied it. You don't need the permission. Right. We could address it two separate ways, but, okay, no, never mind. I feel that we, you know, if this is denied, which, okay, there's a second to the motion, then it gives you the opportunity to come back with something that you can get. Trace? Point of clarification from? I would recommend that that is the case, that you say you deny without prejudice to allow him the opportunity to come back. So that is up to the board to make that determination. I would like to add deny without prejudice to the motion. I support the amendment. Thank you. Yes. But he still has within 60 days. The six-foot height. So either he can come back within 60 days with a revised plan, or it has to be removed. Is that correct, Andrea? Well, these have to be removed anyway, because his revised plan can't be this. Okay. Because we've denied it twice. I want to understand it for him. I want to understand it for him. Denying without. prejudice allows the property owner to come back with a new request I would say that that would be a completely separate request than the denial that is currently being motioned okay thank you are you are you clear on that you're not you know I would think that under you are correct this this would get denied it doesn't matter if prejudice because I'm coming back in correct under something new whatever you want to do yes yeah yeah I think keeping in mind all the things we said tonight so that maybe you know you have a chance so are we clear for the minutes on what the motion states yeah the applicant has to remove

  105. I would recommend that that is the case, that you say you deny without prejudice to allow him the opportunity to come back. So that is up to the board to make that determination. I would like to add deny without prejudice to the motion. I support the amendment. Thank you. Yes. But he still has within 60 days. The six-foot height. So either he can come back within 60 days with a revised plan, or it has to be removed. Is that correct, Andrea? Well, these have to be removed anyway, because his revised plan can't be this. Okay. Because we've denied it twice. I want to understand it for him. I want to understand it for him. Denying without. prejudice allows the property owner to come back with a new request I would say that that would be a completely separate request than the denial that is currently being motioned okay thank you are you are you clear on that you're not you know I would think that under you are correct this this would get denied it doesn't matter if prejudice because I'm coming back in correct under something new whatever you want to do yes yeah yeah I think keeping in mind all the things we said tonight so that maybe you know you have a chance so are we clear for the minutes on what the motion states yeah the applicant has to remove the peers within 60 days after the approval of this meetings minutes which would occur at the September ZBA so 60 days from the September ZBA and then do we have the reasons articulated because I think that's important okay all right so I think we're good on the motion so all those in favor say aye aye any opposed your request is denied without prejudice well I have a copy of that prior to the sick or does it have to be approved again in September that you denied it well I get a letter in the mail so the go ahead we don't send out letters in the mail you can get a copy of the draft notes of the minutes but they won't be approved until the next meeting if you want to request a draft copy of the minutes you can FOIA that and then I believe that we have to exactly how many days business days eight business days to provide you a draft I just didn't know if that was under this circumstance that's probably not for denial usually we send letters up for a permit reminder okay but maybe you will be getting a letter to remind you to remove I guess I will double-check you know okay I appreciate it guys have a good night okay calling the next item 11 3 4 2 2 Chickering Lane

  106. clear for the minutes on what the motion states yeah the applicant has to remove the peers within 60 days after the approval of this meetings minutes which would occur at the September ZBA so 60 days from the September ZBA and then do we have the reasons articulated because I think that's important okay all right so I think we're good on the motion so all those in favor say aye aye any opposed your request is denied without prejudice well I have a copy of that prior to the sick or does it have to be approved again in September that you denied it well I get a letter in the mail so the go ahead we don't send out letters in the mail you can get a copy of the draft notes of the minutes but they won't be approved until the next meeting if you want to request a draft copy of the minutes you can FOIA that and then I believe that we have to exactly how many days business days eight business days to provide you a draft I just didn't know if that was under this circumstance that's probably not for denial usually we send letters up for a permit reminder okay but maybe you will be getting a letter to remind you to remove I guess I will double-check you know okay I appreciate it guys have a good night okay calling the next item 11 3 4 2 2 Chickering Lane hello good evening my name is Beth Hussey and I am the co-owner of 3 4 2 2 Chickering Lane and we are seeking approval looking for permission to put up a shed in our backyard we're actually replacing a shed that was there when we purchased the house we took the shed down the shed is in the back in a heavily wooded area and I believe we would need a variance because it is five or four or five feet from the prop our neighbor's property line and it is the property line is in the middle of a heavily wooded area it's in the middle of the woods and I think that's it so why is it important you have it that close to the property line um it's it's kind of well for one thing we're we're putting it right where there was already a shed it's in kind of a perfect place

  107. good night okay calling the next item 11 3 4 2 2 Chickering Lane hello good evening my name is Beth Hussey and I am the co-owner of 3 4 2 2 Chickering Lane and we are seeking approval looking for permission to put up a shed in our backyard we're actually replacing a shed that was there when we purchased the house we took the shed down the shed is in the back in a heavily wooded area and I believe we would need a variance because it is five or four or five feet from the prop our neighbor's property line and it is the property line is in the middle of a heavily wooded area it's in the middle of the woods and I think that's it so why is it important you have it that close to the property line um it's it's kind of well for one thing we're we're putting it right where there was already a shed it's in kind of a perfect place for it it cannot be seen by really any person not even us it's kind of surrounded by the woods so it's it's perfectly hidden it's in a great spot otherwise it would be kind of right in the middle of the yard in view of everybody any other questions I'll open this to the public for comment anyone would like to comment I think one more thing there is I think we're required to provide screening the one thing is I think that's another variance we're asking for because well first of all it's already very heavily screened by all the woods there and if we were to plant anything it's it's so wooded that the Sun doesn't shine there nothing would live anything that we were to plant that's all I wanted to add hi my name is Roy and any I live at 3200 chickering I'm the president of the Canterbury Hills Improvement Association and I went

  108. one thing we're we're putting it right where there was already a shed it's in kind of a perfect place for it it cannot be seen by really any person not even us it's kind of surrounded by the woods so it's it's perfectly hidden it's in a great spot otherwise it would be kind of right in the middle of the yard in view of everybody any other questions I'll open this to the public for comment anyone would like to comment I think one more thing there is I think we're required to provide screening the one thing is I think that's another variance we're asking for because well first of all it's already very heavily screened by all the woods there and if we were to plant anything it's it's so wooded that the Sun doesn't shine there nothing would live anything that we were to plant that's all I wanted to add hi my name is Roy and any I live at 3200 chickering I'm the president of the Canterbury Hills Improvement Association and I went down and looked at the um site where the old barn was or shed and saw pictures of the winter time of with the the shed in there and it's it's like in a cave of woods and now i went down last night and took a look at it and saw you know the the cavern that's left because the old shed is gone and you know i had driven by there i have walked by there you cannot it's definitely out of sight from all angles and and the property that it's five feet away from is an annexed uh vacant lot it was annexed from canterbury hills into brookside to become part of a large lot so there's there's nobody that's going to see it when they put it up

  109. down and looked at the um site where the old barn was or shed and saw pictures of the winter time of with the the shed in there and it's it's like in a cave of woods and now i went down last night and took a look at it and saw you know the the cavern that's left because the old shed is gone and you know i had driven by there i have walked by there you cannot it's definitely out of sight from all angles and and the property that it's five feet away from is an annexed uh vacant lot it was annexed from canterbury hills into brookside to become part of a large lot so there's there's nobody that's going to see it when they put it up and the the thing about um shielding it with harbor vitis or something they just won't make it back there because there's so much shade so those are my remarks thank you that's very helpful anyone else would like to speak on this so I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board motion thank you so with regard to the appeal for the permission request for a shed as well as the dimensional variance request for a shed encroaching 12 feet into the 16 foot required rear yard setback for the permission request I moved that it is approved as presented based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because there is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that it is not visible and then with the dimensional variance request I move that it also be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because complying with the strict letter

  110. to become part of a large lot so there's there's nobody that's going to see it when they put it up and the the thing about um shielding it with harbor vitis or something they just won't make it back there because there's so much shade so those are my remarks thank you that's very helpful anyone else would like to speak on this so I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board motion thank you so with regard to the appeal for the permission request for a shed as well as the dimensional variance request for a shed encroaching 12 feet into the 16 foot required rear yard setback for the permission request I moved that it is approved as presented based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because there is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that it is not visible and then with the dimensional variance request I move that it also be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because complying with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact it is a large lot and it is not visible by any other neighbors and there is a water or you know a section that's running through a property that would make it harder to put in the middle of her property there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors like I stated earlier unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated that even though it's close to the lot line there's nobody that is you know no residents that's on the other side lot line and as a result it's not self-created so if approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the shed additional evergreen plantings I will not have them be required since it's likely that they will not grow support motion and support any discussion yes according the app on this application shows 19 from the property line so can you build it nine feet from the property line not four feet I'm sorry I can't hear you in your drawing it says nine feet from the property line can we do nine feet versus the four feet that was noticed not really because we'd have to take trees out and stuff to move it that way so instead of taking trees out to

  111. all standards for practical difficulty because complying with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact it is a large lot and it is not visible by any other neighbors and there is a water or you know a section that's running through a property that would make it harder to put in the middle of her property there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors like I stated earlier unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated that even though it's close to the lot line there's nobody that is you know no residents that's on the other side lot line and as a result it's not self-created so if approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the shed additional evergreen plantings I will not have them be required since it's likely that they will not grow support motion and support any discussion yes according the app on this application shows 19 from the property line so can you build it nine feet from the property line not four feet I'm sorry I can't hear you in your drawing it says nine feet from the property line can we do nine feet versus the four feet that was noticed not really because we'd have to take trees out and stuff to move it that way so instead of taking trees out to move it we rather encroach the neighbor is that correct well I mean I guess that's technically what I'm saying but the the property line is in the middle of the woods the neighbor can't see it nor does the neighbor mind so this neighbor but if they move the new neighbor like we've had before may mind yeah they might if they want to take the whole forest out you never know we never know so so I was like the point of the discussion so while it's her motion I would like it to reflect the nine feet not the noticed four feet are you reusing an existing footing or anything from the previous one no it's all new I mean it's no we took it off out but it's kind of sort of very limited space that it can go back in because it's like literally in this small clearing where the shed would fit so it's aligned basically the same way it's just bigger yeah it's it's we're putting it in exactly the same spot we're actually moving in a slight bit further away from the property line it was I think a foot closer so we moved it as much as we could away from that property line but I'd like to keep the motion as with the new shed being in the

  112. take trees out and stuff to move it that way so instead of taking trees out to move it we rather encroach the neighbor is that correct well I mean I guess that's technically what I'm saying but the the property line is in the middle of the woods the neighbor can't see it nor does the neighbor mind so this neighbor but if they move the new neighbor like we've had before may mind yeah they might if they want to take the whole forest out you never know we never know so so I was like the point of the discussion so while it's her motion I would like it to reflect the nine feet not the noticed four feet are you reusing an existing footing or anything from the previous one no it's all new I mean it's no we took it off out but it's kind of sort of very limited space that it can go back in because it's like literally in this small clearing where the shed would fit so it's aligned basically the same way it's just bigger yeah it's it's we're putting it in exactly the same spot we're actually moving in a slight bit further away from the property line it was I think a foot closer so we moved it as much as we could away from that property line but I'd like to keep the motion as with the new shed being in the same location as the old shed sounds like it's one foot further away from the property line mm-hmm I think for enforcement we just need it just there was a motion on the table I think there is a motion on table so I'll let you guys decide how you want it but I think there needs to be a defined yeah we can't of course we can enforce where the old shed was so it's the old shed was at four feet four feet so let's keep it at four feet keep it at four feet okay isn't that what the motion says okay so are we ready to vote then is the discussion over any other discussion all those in favor of the motion say aye aye any opposed nay so um Klinsky one no thank you Item 12 has been postponed. We're moving to item 13, 1825 Delrose Drive.

  113. could away from that property line but I'd like to keep the motion as with the new shed being in the same location as the old shed sounds like it's one foot further away from the property line mm-hmm I think for enforcement we just need it just there was a motion on the table I think there is a motion on table so I'll let you guys decide how you want it but I think there needs to be a defined yeah we can't of course we can enforce where the old shed was so it's the old shed was at four feet four feet so let's keep it at four feet keep it at four feet okay isn't that what the motion says okay so are we ready to vote then is the discussion over any other discussion all those in favor of the motion say aye aye any opposed nay so um Klinsky one no thank you Item 12 has been postponed. We're moving to item 13, 1825 Delrose Drive. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Cassan Abdelnoub from GIV and Associates Architect. I'm representing the owner that is next to me, Dr. Zakar. And first, we want to thank you for having us here tonight. It's been a long night. And thank you for the building and the planning department that's been helping us through the process with this project. What we're here in front of you, we started this project in 2025. There was an existing house on that property and the property was around 60 feet close to the water. With the new design, we wanted to meet all the codes and requirements. So we moved back the house, the house itself, almost to 96 feet away from the water. And because of the sight line that we have to go 500 feet on either side, the setback ended up being, for the deck, it's around 81 feet. So, and we met all the codes and requirements. The house is getting built. Let's gottors. So, thank you. And, here's how I found it.

  114. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Cassan Abdelnoub from GIV and Associates Architect. I'm representing the owner that is next to me, Dr. Zakar. And first, we want to thank you for having us here tonight. It's been a long night. And thank you for the building and the planning department that's been helping us through the process with this project. What we're here in front of you, we started this project in 2025. There was an existing house on that property and the property was around 60 feet close to the water. With the new design, we wanted to meet all the codes and requirements. So we moved back the house, the house itself, almost to 96 feet away from the water. And because of the sight line that we have to go 500 feet on either side, the setback ended up being, for the deck, it's around 81 feet. So, and we met all the codes and requirements. The house is getting built. Let's gottors. So, thank you. And, here's how I found it. we got the permit in 2025 October and we have the basements we were putting the framing right now and through the process because of the angled property line with the water and we end up having a very angled terrace in the front on them on the water side and it was kind of tight but we got the permit we kept going with it and we didn't build it yet and as we discuss it with the owner the shape is kind of tight and we talked to our both neighbors from both sides and they agreed with us I mean they said you're building this house you have a very tight Porsche we're okay if you can make it straight so we're keeping one line on that side we keeping it but we've just taken a parallel line to the house instead of having angled with the water and we have two letters from the neighbors they agree with us and so we decided to submit to the township and get

  115. we got the permit in 2025 October and we have the basements we were putting the framing right now and through the process because of the angled property line with the water and we end up having a very angled terrace in the front on them on the water side and it was kind of tight but we got the permit we kept going with it and we didn't build it yet and as we discuss it with the owner the shape is kind of tight and we talked to our both neighbors from both sides and they agreed with us I mean they said you're building this house you have a very tight Porsche we're okay if you can make it straight so we're keeping one line on that side we keeping it but we've just taken a parallel line to the house instead of having angled with the water and we have two letters from the neighbors they agree with us and so we decided to submit to the township and get you permission just to work with you if you can give us that will help that make the house a little bit better and we have more space for the Porsche and that was our submitting we have seven feet so that seven feet will be close will become 75 feet for this part of the setback the minimum setback in these homes are 50 feet so we're still way away we're only 70 70 75 feet so and the existing house was almost 60 feet so we're working with the township but we want you help to to work with us to make that house work better for my client that's his first house he's excited actually he's a doctor all over the u.s. and he decided to come back to Michigan so we're very proud of him and his family is probably when they're here and we just want to ask that question to you and just make get you permission for that the second variance that they're asking us we didn't know about it's actually we start building the house we get approved twice we submitted the site but once we submitted for that variance I think the township thought that we need to check

  116. neighbors they agree with us and so we decided to submit to the township and get you permission just to work with you if you can give us that will help that make the house a little bit better and we have more space for the Porsche and that was our submitting we have seven feet so that seven feet will be close will become 75 feet for this part of the setback the minimum setback in these homes are 50 feet so we're still way away we're only 70 70 75 feet so and the existing house was almost 60 feet so we're working with the township but we want you help to to work with us to make that house work better for my client that's his first house he's excited actually he's a doctor all over the u.s. and he decided to come back to Michigan so we're very proud of him and his family is probably when they're here and we just want to ask that question to you and just make get you permission for that the second variance that they're asking us we didn't know about it's actually we start building the house we get approved twice we submitted the site but once we submitted for that variance I think the township thought that we need to check if the grading is good on both sides because the houses we have a walkout and the two houses are a little bit higher so we do have these retaining walls that was approved and I think in the code you have to be two feet or minimum I think we have two feet six and so if you go two feet six two feet six two and one of them is two feet four and we have between these terraces there's each one six feet six feet and seven feet so the requirement may be eight feet but these are already been approved we didn't know that we need to get a variance for them I'm not sure if we're supposed to say it we're taking for asking for help with it because we thought we already meet the requirements so this one too we just want to ask you help with us to help us and if we go with eight feet on each side and make it so the the house is almost 75 feet wide and we take 32 feet so we end up with 30 feet at the center and the grade is actually it goes down so most of these we tell you well they're

  117. submitted for that variance I think the township thought that we need to check if the grading is good on both sides because the houses we have a walkout and the two houses are a little bit higher so we do have these retaining walls that was approved and I think in the code you have to be two feet or minimum I think we have two feet six and so if you go two feet six two feet six two and one of them is two feet four and we have between these terraces there's each one six feet six feet and seven feet so the requirement may be eight feet but these are already been approved we didn't know that we need to get a variance for them I'm not sure if we're supposed to say it we're taking for asking for help with it because we thought we already meet the requirements so this one too we just want to ask you help with us to help us and if we go with eight feet on each side and make it so the the house is almost 75 feet wide and we take 32 feet so we end up with 30 feet at the center and the grade is actually it goes down so most of these we tell you well they're asking us they're gonna end up being one feet high so really it's kind of kind of it's a hardship to disturb the backyard it's a hardship to keep even put chairs and have a house that you can use so we're here to ask for these two various the one we knew about but we just want your help for it the second one we didn't know about but we just want to ask you help for it and I can answer any questions you have and so I have a question yes on the site plan yeah so for that deck that you want to encroach you haven't shown the square deck that you want what's that you haven't shown the deck shape that you're requesting oh i thought it was submitted we submitted the permit for it so we submitted the actual variance request but it was uh submitted is it going to be square there where it's supposed to be yes i mean we have it drawn out that's a wedge right now i believe here i do not i mean this might be the smaller copy just right here you can if you would like to

  118. and the grade is actually it goes down so most of these we tell you well they're asking us they're gonna end up being one feet high so really it's kind of kind of it's a hardship to disturb the backyard it's a hardship to keep even put chairs and have a house that you can use so we're here to ask for these two various the one we knew about but we just want your help for it the second one we didn't know about but we just want to ask you help for it and I can answer any questions you have and so I have a question yes on the site plan yeah so for that deck that you want to encroach you haven't shown the square deck that you want what's that you haven't shown the deck shape that you're requesting oh i thought it was submitted we submitted the permit for it so we submitted the actual variance request but it was uh submitted is it going to be square there where it's supposed to be yes i mean we have it drawn out that's a wedge right now i believe here i do not i mean this might be the smaller copy just right here you can if you would like to oh yeah he can put it on the screen i just want to understand our highlights it's a rectangular deck and there's a triangle that we would be yeah i don't know if that was even if that was for something else yeah it's right now there that's the wedge i wanted to see yeah i just showed it in red where we're asking but actually the one we submitted is that the square oh okay yeah that's the official one that was submitted to all right how deep is that deck from the wall of the house to the railing willring to the wall we have maybe like that's all right so we have maybe that's okay that's looks like 12 feet and it's curved inside so you add another 4 feet but it's 12 feet so it's not really most of the decks and the neighbors they all have the same thing but the reason is because of the water unfortunately like having a

  119. oh yeah he can put it on the screen i just want to understand our highlights it's a rectangular deck and there's a triangle that we would be yeah i don't know if that was even if that was for something else yeah it's right now there that's the wedge i wanted to see yeah i just showed it in red where we're asking but actually the one we submitted is that the square oh okay yeah that's the official one that was submitted to all right how deep is that deck from the wall of the house to the railing willring to the wall we have maybe like that's all right so we have maybe that's okay that's looks like 12 feet and it's curved inside so you add another 4 feet but it's 12 feet so it's not really most of the decks and the neighbors they all have the same thing but the reason is because of the water unfortunately like having a trapezoidal shape just isn't I mean takes away from it makes a lot of dead space realistically not only in the deck but also in the porch downstairs or the patio downstairs so if I wanted to have you know in the future and I have kids and I wanted to play on the pool on the balcony or downstairs the patio would be nice to just have an actual nice shape is so that's one of my hardships as well it's just having playable usable area but 12 feet seems reasonable to me and if you were gonna say it was 18 might be a little different discussion thank you thank you any other questions open this to the public anyone like to come on this or you know close public hearing bring it back mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion yep in regards to the appeal at 1825 Delrose Drive for the permission request I move the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of these accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood based on the fact of the retaining wall on the terrace to ensure that you have the appropriate space for your walk

  120. thing but the reason is because of the water unfortunately like having a trapezoidal shape just isn't I mean takes away from it makes a lot of dead space realistically not only in the deck but also in the porch downstairs or the patio downstairs so if I wanted to have you know in the future and I have kids and I wanted to play on the pool on the balcony or downstairs the patio would be nice to just have an actual nice shape is so that's one of my hardships as well it's just having playable usable area but 12 feet seems reasonable to me and if you were gonna say it was 18 might be a little different discussion thank you thank you any other questions open this to the public anyone like to come on this or you know close public hearing bring it back mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion yep in regards to the appeal at 1825 Delrose Drive for the permission request I move the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of these accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood based on the fact of the retaining wall on the terrace to ensure that you have the appropriate space for your walk out as well as a proper appropriate grading for your use as well as the neighbors second for the dimensional variance same address 1825 Delrose Drive for the terrace encroaching seven feet into the 81 average setback the retaining wall with less than eight feet required separation distance and exceeding four feet in height being no taller than 10 feet I prove the variance be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance strict letter the ordinance be unduly burdensome because again the odd shape lot he also did move the home so he did actually increase the average setback there is no justice to you join a neighbor by the reason of the fact that other neighbors have a similar thing and we are still making it better than it was prior to you guys starting your construction the extent the unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrating the fact again it's angled to the water which creates angled in separation for all those and again this is not self-credit due to the fact that again a 12-foot deck off the top off your house is completely reasonable and again the water frontage was not created by you guys if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the terrace and then you may need additional evergreen screenings to soften the terrace from

  121. out as well as a proper appropriate grading for your use as well as the neighbors second for the dimensional variance same address 1825 Delrose Drive for the terrace encroaching seven feet into the 81 average setback the retaining wall with less than eight feet required separation distance and exceeding four feet in height being no taller than 10 feet I prove the variance be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance strict letter the ordinance be unduly burdensome because again the odd shape lot he also did move the home so he did actually increase the average setback there is no justice to you join a neighbor by the reason of the fact that other neighbors have a similar thing and we are still making it better than it was prior to you guys starting your construction the extent the unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrating the fact again it's angled to the water which creates angled in separation for all those and again this is not self-credit due to the fact that again a 12-foot deck off the top off your house is completely reasonable and again the water frontage was not created by you guys if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the terrace and then you may need additional evergreen screenings to soften the terrace from public view again those terraces are going to be internal to you so your is not going to see it so again may not shall support or motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your help, guys. Thank you. I think this is your pattern. So, calling the next item, item 14, 4-0-1-1 Blackthorn. Good evening. My name is Ken Zurich. My wife and I own 4-0-1-1 Blackthorn Court. And I'm here today to ask for approval and variance to add an additional detached garage. I currently have a home built in 1957. And it has a six-foot door opening with a seven-foot tall plastered ceiling. And I love automobiles, and I have too many. And I need...

  122. then you may need additional evergreen screenings to soften the terrace from public view again those terraces are going to be internal to you so your is not going to see it so again may not shall support or motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for your help, guys. Thank you. I think this is your pattern. So, calling the next item, item 14, 4-0-1-1 Blackthorn. Good evening. My name is Ken Zurich. My wife and I own 4-0-1-1 Blackthorn Court. And I'm here today to ask for approval and variance to add an additional detached garage. I currently have a home built in 1957. And it has a six-foot door opening with a seven-foot tall plastered ceiling. And I love automobiles, and I have too many. And I need... ...truck... ...attached garage. So, I have a pretty good-sized lot. And you can see here, I'm on a cul-de-sac. I back up to Maple Road. I'm... ...all four corners of my lot, except the bit of 40-foot frontage on the court, is covered with trees and pine trees. and Arbor Vitae, including the length of my driveway. So the only person that could possibly see a part of this new garage is if someone were standing in my driveway at the court looking along my home, you might be able to see that upper right corner of the garage. And if so, certainly could plant some kind of screening there. The other part of this variance, I guess I should say that part of this variance includes the height. So I'd like to have a 10-foot ceiling in this garage for eventual someday perhaps putting a car lift for additional storage and or the use of a Tahoe

  123. And I need... ...truck... ...attached garage. So, I have a pretty good-sized lot. And you can see here, I'm on a cul-de-sac. I back up to Maple Road. I'm... ...all four corners of my lot, except the bit of 40-foot frontage on the court, is covered with trees and pine trees. and Arbor Vitae, including the length of my driveway. So the only person that could possibly see a part of this new garage is if someone were standing in my driveway at the court looking along my home, you might be able to see that upper right corner of the garage. And if so, certainly could plant some kind of screening there. The other part of this variance, I guess I should say that part of this variance includes the height. So I'd like to have a 10-foot ceiling in this garage for eventual someday perhaps putting a car lift for additional storage and or the use of a Tahoe or Suburban to be able to park in there appropriately and not in my driveway currently. Architect Paul Weir is here with me. And he's drawn up a garage that looks exactly like the house. We currently have a garage door with panels along the right side. We have brick columns on either side of the door and then white siding along the peak. So the second garage will look just like it. And the height, frankly, with the eight-foot door is very proportional to the current garage with the six-foot door. So I'm asking for permission to build that and... to allow them to that variance of the height of the garage. Thank you very much. Any questions from the board? Do you have a basement? Do you have a basement in your current home? Part of it is basement. So your other need is the fact that you don't have enough storage in your current home? That's part of it, certainly. I have, in fact, we're debating about what now, because who's going to have what in what garage if this gets approved? And are you planning on trusting the garage or stick-building it?

  124. a car lift for additional storage and or the use of a Tahoe or Suburban to be able to park in there appropriately and not in my driveway currently. Architect Paul Weir is here with me. And he's drawn up a garage that looks exactly like the house. We currently have a garage door with panels along the right side. We have brick columns on either side of the door and then white siding along the peak. So the second garage will look just like it. And the height, frankly, with the eight-foot door is very proportional to the current garage with the six-foot door. So I'm asking for permission to build that and... to allow them to that variance of the height of the garage. Thank you very much. Any questions from the board? Do you have a basement? Do you have a basement in your current home? Part of it is basement. So your other need is the fact that you don't have enough storage in your current home? That's part of it, certainly. I have, in fact, we're debating about what now, because who's going to have what in what garage if this gets approved? And are you planning on trusting the garage or stick-building it? I'm sorry? Is it going to be trust or stick-built? So you can get the extra height? Yeah. I think I know where you're going. Yeah, you need more than 10 feet to put a lift in, I think. From my experience. Well, that's maybe I requested a 10-foot, but the builder wants to put it up on a block or two first. So the ceiling may be 10-6 or 10-7 or whatever he lastly described it. I don't recall the exact height. In my experience, you can get them in 10 feet, the lifts and whatnot. But it's going to be a very shallow. Most of the lifts, this isn't just providing some. Everything, most of them are 12 is what, depending on the type of car you have. Yes, you can get it. I have a garage that's 10 feet. It is a very tough lift, depending on what type of cars you have. Yeah. So... I understand. There we go. Oh, you probably scissor-trusted inside, and you gave more money. That's what I did. It's not something we discussed in that detail. All right. Well, I just feel like it's a little tall. I mean, you said that it matches, you know, the architecture of the house,

  125. And are you planning on trusting the garage or stick-building it? I'm sorry? Is it going to be trust or stick-built? So you can get the extra height? Yeah. I think I know where you're going. Yeah, you need more than 10 feet to put a lift in, I think. From my experience. Well, that's maybe I requested a 10-foot, but the builder wants to put it up on a block or two first. So the ceiling may be 10-6 or 10-7 or whatever he lastly described it. I don't recall the exact height. In my experience, you can get them in 10 feet, the lifts and whatnot. But it's going to be a very shallow. Most of the lifts, this isn't just providing some. Everything, most of them are 12 is what, depending on the type of car you have. Yes, you can get it. I have a garage that's 10 feet. It is a very tough lift, depending on what type of cars you have. Yeah. So... I understand. There we go. Oh, you probably scissor-trusted inside, and you gave more money. That's what I did. It's not something we discussed in that detail. All right. Well, I just feel like it's a little tall. I mean, you said that it matches, you know, the architecture of the house, but your eave on your house is probably under 8 or 9 feet, and the eave on this building is 11. It's going to be quite a mismatch if you could, I don't know, a little more scissor-trusting, a little more massaging. No, I understand that. But that's just me. If I could give you another piece of data, my neighbor to the north, which would be the only one that possibly could see if she crouched down and looked under the pine trees, she's up on a hill, so her house is up there in my garage even with that 7-foot, maybe 2 feet higher ceiling would be way lower than her house. That's good to know. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Anyone like a comment? Close the public hearing and bring it back. With respect to property located at 4-0-1-1 Blackthorn Court, I would move to grant the permission request for a detached garage because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. An additional garage is not atypical. there's a southwest of the expansive landscape.

  126. I mean, you said that it matches, you know, the architecture of the house, but your eave on your house is probably under 8 or 9 feet, and the eave on this building is 11. It's going to be quite a mismatch if you could, I don't know, a little more scissor-trusting, a little more massaging. No, I understand that. But that's just me. If I could give you another piece of data, my neighbor to the north, which would be the only one that possibly could see if she crouched down and looked under the pine trees, she's up on a hill, so her house is up there in my garage even with that 7-foot, maybe 2 feet higher ceiling would be way lower than her house. That's good to know. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Anyone like a comment? Close the public hearing and bring it back. With respect to property located at 4-0-1-1 Blackthorn Court, I would move to grant the permission request for a detached garage because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. An additional garage is not atypical. there's a southwest of the expansive landscape. and that kind of structure is compatible with the neighborhood with respect to the dimensional variance I would move to approve that as well for the height and the fact that it would structure would exceed 50% of the ground floor area for the reason that the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty those practical difficulties are by virtue of the first the location of the property which backs up to Maple Road very heavily traveled road the odd shape of the lot on the cul-de-sac and the location of the house is it sits on that lot because it was put in 1957 as he says and it's angled in a way that it sort of limits the area that can be built upon and there would be no injustice to the neighbors by virtue of the existing foliage and the fact that the property sits lower than the adjacent properties and this is not self-created if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the detached garage and a single-family affidavit is required to be submitted to the township I'm not going to require additional screening on this support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank

  127. and that kind of structure is compatible with the neighborhood with respect to the dimensional variance I would move to approve that as well for the height and the fact that it would structure would exceed 50% of the ground floor area for the reason that the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty those practical difficulties are by virtue of the first the location of the property which backs up to Maple Road very heavily traveled road the odd shape of the lot on the cul-de-sac and the location of the house is it sits on that lot because it was put in 1957 as he says and it's angled in a way that it sort of limits the area that can be built upon and there would be no injustice to the neighbors by virtue of the existing foliage and the fact that the property sits lower than the adjacent properties and this is not self-created if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the detached garage and a single-family affidavit is required to be submitted to the township I'm not going to require additional screening on this support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you calling item 156580 red maple lane good evening good evening Brandon Davis here requesting permission not forgiveness at least I have that going for me I am joined here today by my wife who is the owner of record for the property Alicia Barry and also by the director of operations for our contractor Francisco this request that we're bringing before you today is permission and dimensional variance to install a fence in the back of our property located at six five eight zero red maple lane the purpose for this is to create a larger area for our dogs or two dogs that will be living at the property with us I also want to be clear we are not currently residing there we will be moving in in October after we get some work done to the house but that's when the the dogs will be there and we want to give them a little bit more space the house does currently have an existing fence in the back area that is for the pool if you look at the option one graphic there the pool is in the lower left corner the

  128. all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you calling item 156580 red maple lane good evening good evening Brandon Davis here requesting permission not forgiveness at least I have that going for me I am joined here today by my wife who is the owner of record for the property Alicia Barry and also by the director of operations for our contractor Francisco this request that we're bringing before you today is permission and dimensional variance to install a fence in the back of our property located at six five eight zero red maple lane the purpose for this is to create a larger area for our dogs or two dogs that will be living at the property with us I also want to be clear we are not currently residing there we will be moving in in October after we get some work done to the house but that's when the the dogs will be there and we want to give them a little bit more space the house does currently have an existing fence in the back area that is for the pool if you look at the option one graphic there the pool is in the lower left corner the fence kind of goes around it bus almost back up to the property line in the back there so really for all intents and purposes this is kind of more of an extension of what's already existing than it is you know adding an entirely new structure although we will be as you can see hopefully extending that quite a bit to give our dogs the maximum amount of room to run around and play and Again, really, this is a safety and security issue as it pertains to the dogs. All along the property there, well, at least mostly along the property there on Lassa Road, that's all screened from the road by an existing grove of trees, large grove of trees. Couldn't even put a number on how many trees are out there blocking our property from the road. We're going to keep them. We want to keep them there. They're great for screening, great for sound screening. They're also great for a little bit of shade, maybe keep the energy bill down a little bit. And this is a great representation, although obviously the grass in the front, that would be Lassa Road there. But this is a representation of what we're trying to get to here. As you can see, we have the existing grove of trees. Those arborvitae there we're planning to plant, as evident in our landscape plan that we submitted along with this.

  129. for the pool if you look at the option one graphic there the pool is in the lower left corner the fence kind of goes around it bus almost back up to the property line in the back there so really for all intents and purposes this is kind of more of an extension of what's already existing than it is you know adding an entirely new structure although we will be as you can see hopefully extending that quite a bit to give our dogs the maximum amount of room to run around and play and Again, really, this is a safety and security issue as it pertains to the dogs. All along the property there, well, at least mostly along the property there on Lassa Road, that's all screened from the road by an existing grove of trees, large grove of trees. Couldn't even put a number on how many trees are out there blocking our property from the road. We're going to keep them. We want to keep them there. They're great for screening, great for sound screening. They're also great for a little bit of shade, maybe keep the energy bill down a little bit. And this is a great representation, although obviously the grass in the front, that would be Lassa Road there. But this is a representation of what we're trying to get to here. As you can see, we have the existing grove of trees. Those arborvitae there we're planning to plant, as evident in our landscape plan that we submitted along with this. So there'll be 25 to 30 arborvitae that'll go along and then back along the back as well, which is a private access driveway. Now, that's the only place that we have neighbors that could see this fencing. We have two neighbors back there. I've spoken to the one neighbor that's immediately to the south of us. This will be a great depiction here. Can you go back to the other picture here? So we don't have a picture of the south. I did include one in what I submitted, but we don't have that here. The point is that the neighbor to the south can see this proposed area from the private access driveway. There's even another neighbor. There's a little more 설명ist that I bought it foria square x4. And the top level that Bastogonibil is to be able to focus us on our side of the north is. back there you can see it's six six three six so there's a private access driveway that runs there between our property six five eight zero six six five zero six six three six right there thank you for the zoom in in my discussions with the owner at six six five zero not only did he voice support for what we're proposing to do here he had also indicated that he and our other neighbor there who I have not spoken with yet at six six three six we're planning on putting our providey along their side of the private access driveway so this was very much in line with what we're proposing to keep with

  130. Those arborvitae there we're planning to plant, as evident in our landscape plan that we submitted along with this. So there'll be 25 to 30 arborvitae that'll go along and then back along the back as well, which is a private access driveway. Now, that's the only place that we have neighbors that could see this fencing. We have two neighbors back there. I've spoken to the one neighbor that's immediately to the south of us. This will be a great depiction here. Can you go back to the other picture here? So we don't have a picture of the south. I did include one in what I submitted, but we don't have that here. The point is that the neighbor to the south can see this proposed area from the private access driveway. There's even another neighbor. There's a little more 설명ist that I bought it foria square x4. And the top level that Bastogonibil is to be able to focus us on our side of the north is. back there you can see it's six six three six so there's a private access driveway that runs there between our property six five eight zero six six five zero six six three six right there thank you for the zoom in in my discussions with the owner at six six five zero not only did he voice support for what we're proposing to do here he had also indicated that he and our other neighbor there who I have not spoken with yet at six six three six we're planning on putting our providey along their side of the private access driveway so this was very much in line with what we're proposing to keep with the character of what they want to do with their own property so I just want to be very clear about that that that's what was indicated to me by the neighbor at six six five zero I have not spoken the neighbor at six six three six the reason for that is one we don't live there yet so we're not spending a lot of time over there and two they have the entirety of the front of their property fenced off with the gate so it's not approachable to knock and introduce myself so that's the situation over there that's what we're proposing to do we did include a couple of different designs to basically give you all the choice what would be the most palatable for this 16 board here I think that's about it I'm happy to answer any questions y'all may have oh the one last thing I do want to say is we there was a graphic back there if you could go back that showed a fencing material there we go that's what we're looking to do it is consistent with already what already exists with the pool fencing same material same design won't look any different so the continuity will be the same and that now is all I have happy to answer any questions you might have so let's go back to the picture with option one and option two mm-hmm so those are you're saying we can pick pretty much and anything in between now we would much

  131. driveway so this was very much in line with what we're proposing to keep with the character of what they want to do with their own property so I just want to be very clear about that that that's what was indicated to me by the neighbor at six six five zero I have not spoken the neighbor at six six three six the reason for that is one we don't live there yet so we're not spending a lot of time over there and two they have the entirety of the front of their property fenced off with the gate so it's not approachable to knock and introduce myself so that's the situation over there that's what we're proposing to do we did include a couple of different designs to basically give you all the choice what would be the most palatable for this 16 board here I think that's about it I'm happy to answer any questions y'all may have oh the one last thing I do want to say is we there was a graphic back there if you could go back that showed a fencing material there we go that's what we're looking to do it is consistent with already what already exists with the pool fencing same material same design won't look any different so the continuity will be the same and that now is all I have happy to answer any questions you might have so let's go back to the picture with option one and option two mm-hmm so those are you're saying we can pick pretty much and anything in between now we would much prefer option one because again it would just give the dogs more space we grow our family in the future you know more secure safe area back there and that's really the main thing you know obviously with the pool we're going to be using that space for hanging out and whatnot so really just trying to get the most that we can out of that particular part of the property we'll probably be timeout screening but I have another question do we see a picture you said of the existing fence that's there that's what I was going to ask is it so what is not six you're not number I actually in the plans it should call for four or six we would have preferred six just because of the height the privacy all that good stuff again willing to go for that's totally fine if that's consistent with what's already there if you go back to the pictures though there there may be one I know I did include one okay okay bottom right it is behind the V tree right there you can just barely see it is it a privacy but it's not it's not it is it is black iron aluminum looks like

  132. saying we can pick pretty much and anything in between now we would much prefer option one because again it would just give the dogs more space we grow our family in the future you know more secure safe area back there and that's really the main thing you know obviously with the pool we're going to be using that space for hanging out and whatnot so really just trying to get the most that we can out of that particular part of the property we'll probably be timeout screening but I have another question do we see a picture you said of the existing fence that's there that's what I was going to ask is it so what is not six you're not number I actually in the plans it should call for four or six we would have preferred six just because of the height the privacy all that good stuff again willing to go for that's totally fine if that's consistent with what's already there if you go back to the pictures though there there may be one I know I did include one okay okay bottom right it is behind the V tree right there you can just barely see it is it a privacy but it's not it's not it is it is black iron aluminum looks like you know it's aluminum fencing but it's meant to look like that black wrought iron fencing you know so that's what it is that's what we're gonna keep with consistently you know just keep it looking nice it's nice it is nice you know we may we got a little guy so we may have to do something to keep him from pulling a Houdini act through the the bottom there but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it oh definitely dog definitely definitely dog yeah you know I gotta get my necklace well you definitely have a unique lot I guess I mean the outlines of that amount of fence maybe or somewhere in between it's more a question of I think you've heard us tonight talk about screening on the outside so where you put the fence relative your property line to to fit the evergreen or providing kind of things indeed and again the focus will be on behind that grove of trees there we don't want to disturb that we want to leave it as it is it's nice it keeps our property screened very well and we're just we just want to add to it we honestly we were already planning on adding more to it

  133. you know it's aluminum fencing but it's meant to look like that black wrought iron fencing you know so that's what it is that's what we're gonna keep with consistently you know just keep it looking nice it's nice it is nice you know we may we got a little guy so we may have to do something to keep him from pulling a Houdini act through the the bottom there but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it oh definitely dog definitely definitely dog yeah you know I gotta get my necklace well you definitely have a unique lot I guess I mean the outlines of that amount of fence maybe or somewhere in between it's more a question of I think you've heard us tonight talk about screening on the outside so where you put the fence relative your property line to to fit the evergreen or providing kind of things indeed and again the focus will be on behind that grove of trees there we don't want to disturb that we want to leave it as it is it's nice it keeps our property screened very well and we're just we just want to add to it we honestly we were already planning on adding more to it anyway so you know just making it as full as possible and you know that's on the losser side correct your option one is showing the fence you know and I don't know many feet but closer probably than what we would end up with we and I mean I mean that to say that even if you were to say build it however you want to build it that drawing wouldn't exact I know yes but that did what you wouldn't do I understand that but but it would be further back there's no the trees that are there unless or are they evergreen some of them yeah there's so many at all from the picture are they in the easement yeah no no they're past they're on your property there are our property yeah as far as I know yeah because whatever screening you do if you really zoom in on that you can see I mean it is it's full it's it's trees it's shrubs vines you know it's you can't see our house through there it's not like we're trying to screen the neighbors across but there's a sidewalk but there's a walking this is true as well yeah people and we

  134. want to add to it we honestly we were already planning on adding more to it anyway so you know just making it as full as possible and you know that's on the losser side correct your option one is showing the fence you know and I don't know many feet but closer probably than what we would end up with we and I mean I mean that to say that even if you were to say build it however you want to build it that drawing wouldn't exact I know yes but that did what you wouldn't do I understand that but but it would be further back there's no the trees that are there unless or are they evergreen some of them yeah there's so many at all from the picture are they in the easement yeah no no they're past they're on your property there are our property yeah as far as I know yeah because whatever screening you do if you really zoom in on that you can see I mean it is it's full it's it's trees it's shrubs vines you know it's you can't see our house through there it's not like we're trying to screen the neighbors across but there's a sidewalk but there's a walking this is true as well yeah people and we want the dog running right up to them right that's one of the big things we've talked about yeah correct well which is why we talked about some of those setbacks mm-hmm but you offered the latitude between option one and option two there's a lot of space between there is which is great because I'm not in favor of option one because I need this space not only for your screening but to make sure it's safe for both your son or a future family and that dog mm-hmm so is option two 16 feet from the property line how far because you your other need is the fact you have two frontages correct that's the other thing this is an anomalous property here thank you can you tell me what the square footage of that area would be not great it looks like it'd be really small no very very much not good um but uh what and that also would terminate at the edge of our house that was the logic behind option two is that it would go out and terminate at the edge of the house we obviously want more space going that way towards losser um but that was the logic there

  135. there's a sidewalk but there's a walking this is true as well yeah people and we want the dog running right up to them right that's one of the big things we've talked about yeah correct well which is why we talked about some of those setbacks mm-hmm but you offered the latitude between option one and option two there's a lot of space between there is which is great because I'm not in favor of option one because I need this space not only for your screening but to make sure it's safe for both your son or a future family and that dog mm-hmm so is option two 16 feet from the property line how far because you your other need is the fact you have two frontages correct that's the other thing this is an anomalous property here thank you can you tell me what the square footage of that area would be not great it looks like it'd be really small no very very much not good um but uh what and that also would terminate at the edge of our house that was the logic behind option two is that it would go out and terminate at the edge of the house we obviously want more space going that way towards losser um but that was the logic there was that you know if we kind of stopped it at the end at the edge of the house right there it wouldn't be going out into that um secondary front yard or or i believe that's what it's called there on losser um so that was kind of the logic what is the set what do you what is your step back currently so option two how far away from the property line is that fence proposed so for option two it's quite a distance um i may have to defer to francisco about 35 feet 35 feet so why don't we just move it over a little bit move it to the 16th 16 feet from the property like in between two options yeah you okay oh Francis yes my my contractor here Francisco yeah the first the first step that the first options for the property line is about 16 feet 18 feet around it okay it's a lot of woods in there so I cannot you know like see where's the property line but it's about 18 16 feet because this is the scaling is

  136. house we obviously want more space going that way towards losser um but that was the logic there was that you know if we kind of stopped it at the end at the edge of the house right there it wouldn't be going out into that um secondary front yard or or i believe that's what it's called there on losser um so that was kind of the logic what is the set what do you what is your step back currently so option two how far away from the property line is that fence proposed so for option two it's quite a distance um i may have to defer to francisco about 35 feet 35 feet so why don't we just move it over a little bit move it to the 16th 16 feet from the property like in between two options yeah you okay oh Francis yes my my contractor here Francisco yeah the first the first step that the first options for the property line is about 16 feet 18 feet around it okay it's a lot of woods in there so I cannot you know like see where's the property line but it's about 18 16 feet because this is the scaling is a little different for us that's why so yeah I think we have our answer don't we yeah for example the house up there how far do you think the house edge is to the lot line to Lasserow from Lasserow to the side of your house maybe 50 60 feet yeah bring it right to 16 feet and you're good so which is already a variance if you came in from the lot line 16 feet exactly that's the issue the secondary front and then return it to the house exactly there's a side door all right I think we've got a good number I'd like to open this to the public yeah would like to comment close public hearing and are you like the 16 yes okay yes mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion in regards to the permission requests at 6580 red maple lane I move that the accessory structure be

  137. where's the property line but it's about 18 16 feet because this is the scaling is a little different for us that's why so yeah I think we have our answer don't we yeah for example the house up there how far do you think the house edge is to the lot line to Lasserow from Lasserow to the side of your house maybe 50 60 feet yeah bring it right to 16 feet and you're good so which is already a variance if you came in from the lot line 16 feet exactly that's the issue the secondary front and then return it to the house exactly there's a side door all right I think we've got a good number I'd like to open this to the public yeah would like to comment close public hearing and are you like the 16 yes okay yes mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion in regards to the permission requests at 6580 red maple lane I move that the accessory structure be approved as we're gonna call it amended based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because use of this accessory structure is appropriate the neighborhood as other people have dog fences second for the dimensional variance at 6580 red maple lane in regards to the variance for the secondary frontage associated with the fence which we're gonna do 16 feet to Lasser Road and we're gonna do do you know what your southern lot off was like we're right on the edge right there on the southern line yeah is there enough room to put so I need like three feet yes yeah that would be the minimum mm-hmm because you need to be able to put in our variety yes correct correct and there is okay so three feet to the southern so we do not be 16 you would not be 25 feet into the rear setback I'm allowing 22 feet into it basic information presented the epic did demonstrate all things for practical difficulty because compliance strictly ordinance to be unduly burdensome because again he's matching the current pool fencing and he is gonna ensure that the dog does not create any type of safety issues for his neighbor as well as for the pool there is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of we are completely screening it with our provided plans

  138. requests at 6580 red maple lane I move that the accessory structure be approved as we're gonna call it amended based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because use of this accessory structure is appropriate the neighborhood as other people have dog fences second for the dimensional variance at 6580 red maple lane in regards to the variance for the secondary frontage associated with the fence which we're gonna do 16 feet to Lasser Road and we're gonna do do you know what your southern lot off was like we're right on the edge right there on the southern line yeah is there enough room to put so I need like three feet yes yeah that would be the minimum mm-hmm because you need to be able to put in our variety yes correct correct and there is okay so three feet to the southern so we do not be 16 you would not be 25 feet into the rear setback I'm allowing 22 feet into it basic information presented the epic did demonstrate all things for practical difficulty because compliance strictly ordinance to be unduly burdensome because again he's matching the current pool fencing and he is gonna ensure that the dog does not create any type of safety issues for his neighbor as well as for the pool there is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of we are completely screening it with our provided plans To the height of this fence the unique services other property have been demonstrating the fact that it has two frontages as well as a Access road behind it. This is not self-created because again This is a lot that was planted prior to you guys buying it if all permit if this motion is approved All application for permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of this dog Finch and again, I will require evergreen screenings to the height of the dog fence, which is four feet at time of planting support motion and support any discussion Falls in favor say aye. Aye. All right. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request says modified screen. Thank you I just want to commend you. It's late evening and you did a nice job with your presentation and a lot of energy Thank you a lot of people a lot of people running out of gas By this point in the evening and you had good energy All right So calling item 16 7 480 Bingham Road Good evening I'm Jen Birch. I'm a regional property manager for Glens of Bloomfield Which is a hundred and forty five unit apartment and townhome community at 14 mile and Telegraph

  139. To the height of this fence the unique services other property have been demonstrating the fact that it has two frontages as well as a Access road behind it. This is not self-created because again This is a lot that was planted prior to you guys buying it if all permit if this motion is approved All application for permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of this dog Finch and again, I will require evergreen screenings to the height of the dog fence, which is four feet at time of planting support motion and support any discussion Falls in favor say aye. Aye. All right. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request says modified screen. Thank you I just want to commend you. It's late evening and you did a nice job with your presentation and a lot of energy Thank you a lot of people a lot of people running out of gas By this point in the evening and you had good energy All right So calling item 16 7 480 Bingham Road Good evening I'm Jen Birch. I'm a regional property manager for Glens of Bloomfield Which is a hundred and forty five unit apartment and townhome community at 14 mile and Telegraph I'm here today with my trusted Action Fence which is Beacon's fencing provider Here to seek approval on a dimensional variance Music on fencing requirements to install a dog park community for my residents and the dog accessory structures that are fixed to the ground yes and those okay and all of your residents are interested or you've pulled them it's a it's an amenity that they want it is others won't be complaining no so we've actually been putting a lot into the property we recently installed a fitness center the dog park is part of our plans to enhance the exterior so many residents nowadays have pets and we're trying to make the space more usable and enjoyable for them you really can't see this from any road because it's an interior of the correct so we're heavily wooded along that primary fence wall and the only way you would see this is if you were to drive onto our property and

  140. Which is a hundred and forty five unit apartment and townhome community at 14 mile and Telegraph I'm here today with my trusted Action Fence which is Beacon's fencing provider Here to seek approval on a dimensional variance Music on fencing requirements to install a dog park community for my residents and the dog accessory structures that are fixed to the ground yes and those okay and all of your residents are interested or you've pulled them it's a it's an amenity that they want it is others won't be complaining no so we've actually been putting a lot into the property we recently installed a fitness center the dog park is part of our plans to enhance the exterior so many residents nowadays have pets and we're trying to make the space more usable and enjoyable for them you really can't see this from any road because it's an interior of the correct so we're heavily wooded along that primary fence wall and the only way you would see this is if you were to drive onto our property and approach further in that is the best location for our dog park based on you know the space and the land that we have and the distance away from the parking lots and the buildings any other questions I think it's a really nice idea yeah yeah it's a great investment for your residents and again just actually right right up the street at the other other end of Lincoln Hills you a dog park but that's the city of Birmingham you have to buy a non-resident pass to use that and it's used quite a bit so this is nice I love this to the public anyone like to comment on the dog park close public hearing motion I'll make a motion in respect to the permission request at 7480 Bingham Road for a dimensional variance for a dog containment fence located in the telegraph front yard frontage I propose approval of the variance as submitted on the drawings based on the information prevent presented the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty

  141. the only way you would see this is if you were to drive onto our property and approach further in that is the best location for our dog park based on you know the space and the land that we have and the distance away from the parking lots and the buildings any other questions I think it's a really nice idea yeah yeah it's a great investment for your residents and again just actually right right up the street at the other other end of Lincoln Hills you a dog park but that's the city of Birmingham you have to buy a non-resident pass to use that and it's used quite a bit so this is nice I love this to the public anyone like to comment on the dog park close public hearing motion I'll make a motion in respect to the permission request at 7480 Bingham Road for a dimensional variance for a dog containment fence located in the telegraph front yard frontage I propose approval of the variance as submitted on the drawings based on the information prevent presented the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty compliance so on yeah compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance we'd be unduly burdensome because the telegraph frontage on this multiple family development is not the intention of this ordinance it's well screened from telegraph and set back there there's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of it's indeed an amenity to the community and the unique circumstances have been demonstrated the permission request as a permission request approved also the size of the accessory the accessory structure at the height proposed the design is what we're seeing in a lot of neighborhoods and will be harmonious with the your development if the motion approves application from necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to the installation of the dog fence and dog accessory structures I'm not going to require additional evergreen screening given the location within this parcel support motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is greater

  142. compliance so on yeah compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance we'd be unduly burdensome because the telegraph frontage on this multiple family development is not the intention of this ordinance it's well screened from telegraph and set back there there's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of it's indeed an amenity to the community and the unique circumstances have been demonstrated the permission request as a permission request approved also the size of the accessory the accessory structure at the height proposed the design is what we're seeing in a lot of neighborhoods and will be harmonious with the your development if the motion approves application from necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to the installation of the dog fence and dog accessory structures I'm not going to require additional evergreen screening given the location within this parcel support motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is greater so calling the next time item 17 6400 telegraph good evening my name is mark weimum and I'm here on behalf of the ownership of property I might not be as enthusiastic as the earlier gentlemen because I'm frankly tired everybody has different talents there you go there you go fair enough fair enough so I promise you I won't fall asleep so this is the property behind the Starbucks at maple and telegraph you may be familiar with I've got Eric Krusky with me who's one of the dentists from farm brick dental and they've been a tenant now for close to 10 years and for whatever reason this corner seems to suffer the worst power outages of any area any other properties the area it never fails when dte goes down this corner gets shut down for whatever reason and i don't know particularly what causes it but it's literally this small little segment and the challenge has been and i can let you know eric speak on behalf of the the practice they could

  143. opposed congratulations your request is greater so calling the next time item 17 6400 telegraph good evening my name is mark weimum and I'm here on behalf of the ownership of property I might not be as enthusiastic as the earlier gentlemen because I'm frankly tired everybody has different talents there you go there you go fair enough fair enough so I promise you I won't fall asleep so this is the property behind the Starbucks at maple and telegraph you may be familiar with I've got Eric Krusky with me who's one of the dentists from farm brick dental and they've been a tenant now for close to 10 years and for whatever reason this corner seems to suffer the worst power outages of any area any other properties the area it never fails when dte goes down this corner gets shut down for whatever reason and i don't know particularly what causes it but it's literally this small little segment and the challenge has been and i can let you know eric speak on behalf of the the practice they could be in the middle of doing procedures with anesthesia and equipment and so on and so forth and the power goes out and there's just nothing you can do we've talked to them about we've looked at you know a lot of different options and what we've come up with is locating a generator that simply serves just the dental practice is not going to be a full building generator just a life safety function to keep their office operating the critical systems operating should the power fail when they're when the practice is open um we we i did talk to our electrician we can limit the hours of operation of the generator um to the weekdays i don't think you guys are working on the weekends um and uh we can also set the exercise cycling time for whenever you know there's a weekly exercise cycling happy to do it whenever you like um i i did google earth so it may not be precise but i believe the generator is about 66 feet away from the nearest building at foxcroft

  144. challenge has been and i can let you know eric speak on behalf of the the practice they could be in the middle of doing procedures with anesthesia and equipment and so on and so forth and the power goes out and there's just nothing you can do we've talked to them about we've looked at you know a lot of different options and what we've come up with is locating a generator that simply serves just the dental practice is not going to be a full building generator just a life safety function to keep their office operating the critical systems operating should the power fail when they're when the practice is open um we we i did talk to our electrician we can limit the hours of operation of the generator um to the weekdays i don't think you guys are working on the weekends um and uh we can also set the exercise cycling time for whenever you know there's a weekly exercise cycling happy to do it whenever you like um i i did google earth so it may not be precise but i believe the generator is about 66 feet away from the nearest building at foxcroft I included some pictures, but there's a driveway, and then there's the carports, and then you can see the buildings, and that's about 66 feet away from where the generator would be. And at that level, I think Andrea had asked, I think we calculated it would be about 61.8 dB when it's running. What's the square footage of the dental office? It's about 5,000 square feet. Okay, so it's not a massive generator. No. It's just for us. Yeah. Okay. And so it's just Monday through Friday. What are the hours of operation? So we're open on Monday 7 to 7, Tuesday 7 to 7, Wednesday until 7, and then Thursday, Friday, we're done around 2. I think, though, that we had put in, we would request 7 to 7 just so that if they're, you know, we don't have to come back if they change their hours during the week and that kind of stuff. So it would be Monday through Friday 7 to 7. Is it something that you're able to put on the rooftop? We looked at doing that. We didn't contemplate it originally, and so we really don't have the space for it.

  145. I included some pictures, but there's a driveway, and then there's the carports, and then you can see the buildings, and that's about 66 feet away from where the generator would be. And at that level, I think Andrea had asked, I think we calculated it would be about 61.8 dB when it's running. What's the square footage of the dental office? It's about 5,000 square feet. Okay, so it's not a massive generator. No. It's just for us. Yeah. Okay. And so it's just Monday through Friday. What are the hours of operation? So we're open on Monday 7 to 7, Tuesday 7 to 7, Wednesday until 7, and then Thursday, Friday, we're done around 2. I think, though, that we had put in, we would request 7 to 7 just so that if they're, you know, we don't have to come back if they change their hours during the week and that kind of stuff. So it would be Monday through Friday 7 to 7. Is it something that you're able to put on the rooftop? We looked at doing that. We didn't contemplate it originally, and so we really don't have the space for it. Like, we have rooftop units up there, and there's some structural components that are involved with that. So, unfortunately, we didn't design it around that, not really having a lot of prescience, thinking that that would be a good thing to have. hindsight it would have been a good thing to contemplate but unfortunately we're coming in long after the fact so at this point no and so I'm sorry you said the decimal level of the generator when running is 65 no we well we we calculated that and Andrew I don't know if you talk to your engineer at all or not but we calculated based on the specs the 100 kW unit at 66 feet would be approximately 61.8 decibels you know at at the point of the nearest apartment or condominium and I don't know if that's consistent with what you I don't know if you can have any information on this but do you know if they typically go out when you do I believe they do I think it's just that one I think it is that one corner but that's a good question running you know some of them might be running you know it seems to just hit I think it hits the

  146. We didn't contemplate it originally, and so we really don't have the space for it. Like, we have rooftop units up there, and there's some structural components that are involved with that. So, unfortunately, we didn't design it around that, not really having a lot of prescience, thinking that that would be a good thing to have. hindsight it would have been a good thing to contemplate but unfortunately we're coming in long after the fact so at this point no and so I'm sorry you said the decimal level of the generator when running is 65 no we well we we calculated that and Andrew I don't know if you talk to your engineer at all or not but we calculated based on the specs the 100 kW unit at 66 feet would be approximately 61.8 decibels you know at at the point of the nearest apartment or condominium and I don't know if that's consistent with what you I don't know if you can have any information on this but do you know if they typically go out when you do I believe they do I think it's just that one I think it is that one corner but that's a good question running you know some of them might be running you know it seems to just hit I think it hits the shoppings the the shopping center where you know we're Trader Joe's we're Trader Joe's you know across the street yeah it hits us and I think it hits Foxcroft I don't think it goes much beyond that it just are there any other generators on the property any other tenants that have generated no this would be the only one first one and so what's the decimal level right at the unit do you know I I think it was set was it 72 at the unit so to as part of a if it were approved in that location there would be obviously it would be a permit that would be required and part of that permit would review would be a measurement of the decibel readings 25 feet from the unit and from 25 feet from the unit it would have to demonstrate no more than a 70 decibel reading and based on our rough estimation from the location past the drive aisle past the carports I came up with approximately 55 feet distance but again all of that would have to be reviewed and would have to meet the decibel reading at the time of a permit and if in speaking to our electrical inspector today is that there are ways that there

  147. running you know some of them might be running you know it seems to just hit I think it hits the shoppings the the shopping center where you know we're Trader Joe's we're Trader Joe's you know across the street yeah it hits us and I think it hits Foxcroft I don't think it goes much beyond that it just are there any other generators on the property any other tenants that have generated no this would be the only one first one and so what's the decimal level right at the unit do you know I I think it was set was it 72 at the unit so to as part of a if it were approved in that location there would be obviously it would be a permit that would be required and part of that permit would review would be a measurement of the decibel readings 25 feet from the unit and from 25 feet from the unit it would have to demonstrate no more than a 70 decibel reading and based on our rough estimation from the location past the drive aisle past the carports I came up with approximately 55 feet distance but again all of that would have to be reviewed and would have to meet the decibel reading at the time of a permit and if in speaking to our electrical inspector today is that there are ways that there is sound mitigation opportunity for generators but obviously we don't want to we don't want to lean on to that we'd like to see that it complies with that decibel reading at that 25 foot measurement and we would require screening anyway which is going to help with that level as well well this the screw there's there's actually a row of arborvitaes there there's the fence there's the driveway and then there's the carports so there's quite a bit of stuff in between so there's you couldn't put any more in uh we could I I'm just not sure that I'm not sure that like um you're I think I've got some pictures something you'll make it different yeah yeah I'm not sure that it would really appreciate and I also was told that they because I showed him the specs yeah that you shared with me and they he did say that doesn't have an option to have it on silent mode when it's doing the test run so it sounds like that would be another I wasn't and that's something that someone read that yeah that's something that we could require as well and remember this you know I can't speak for the doctors but I suspect that when the power goes out you know they're not gonna be they're

  148. of a permit and if in speaking to our electrical inspector today is that there are ways that there is sound mitigation opportunity for generators but obviously we don't want to we don't want to lean on to that we'd like to see that it complies with that decibel reading at that 25 foot measurement and we would require screening anyway which is going to help with that level as well well this the screw there's there's actually a row of arborvitaes there there's the fence there's the driveway and then there's the carports so there's quite a bit of stuff in between so there's you couldn't put any more in uh we could I I'm just not sure that I'm not sure that like um you're I think I've got some pictures something you'll make it different yeah yeah I'm not sure that it would really appreciate and I also was told that they because I showed him the specs yeah that you shared with me and they he did say that doesn't have an option to have it on silent mode when it's doing the test run so it sounds like that would be another I wasn't and that's something that someone read that yeah that's something that we could require as well and remember this you know I can't speak for the doctors but I suspect that when the power goes out you know they're not gonna be they're gonna be finishing up what they're doing and then closing the office I don't imagine they're gonna be I mean I don't know ideally this is for patient safety finishing what we're doing patients that are under anesthesia because power goes out we're in the middle procedure it's hard to even it's not like a home use where you're keeping the refrigerator right now we want safety feature our safety patient safety as the number one thing reason okay so the idea is finish up whatever they need to do while the power is out then I suspect the office closes you know until it restarts type of thing and this is just for the dental practice right strictly for the dental practice yeah how far is it from the property line it's very close to the property line you can you can see the proposed generator the property line is you know this fence line just to the side of that are there other locations that would work well for you no we've tried working on this for like over a year I looked at possibly putting it over by the dumpsters over closer to bows and from a practical standpoint it was just it got it got crazy trying to figure out how to economically and

  149. I suspect that when the power goes out you know they're not gonna be they're gonna be finishing up what they're doing and then closing the office I don't imagine they're gonna be I mean I don't know ideally this is for patient safety finishing what we're doing patients that are under anesthesia because power goes out we're in the middle procedure it's hard to even it's not like a home use where you're keeping the refrigerator right now we want safety feature our safety patient safety as the number one thing reason okay so the idea is finish up whatever they need to do while the power is out then I suspect the office closes you know until it restarts type of thing and this is just for the dental practice right strictly for the dental practice yeah how far is it from the property line it's very close to the property line you can you can see the proposed generator the property line is you know this fence line just to the side of that are there other locations that would work well for you no we've tried working on this for like over a year I looked at possibly putting it over by the dumpsters over closer to bows and from a practical standpoint it was just it got it got crazy trying to figure out how to economically and feasibly installing a generator that far away from the practice the the the jet the generators right across the street from the meter room so it's like all the power to the building is right there and you know anywhere else you go on the property you have to go through the pavement you know cut up pavement and route whatever the lines are and it's very cumbersome so there's really no other practical location except in that green belt there and we literally put it as close to the meter room as you could get up any other questions from the board because we know we're going to hear from the public all right I'm assuming those like to speak on this raise your hand okay so I'm opening a public hearing why don't you come up and you're the only one that raised your hand okay well first of all I'd like to thank you for a very interesting evening I thought I'd be here about an hour and a half but I'm Debbie Allison

  150. was just it got it got crazy trying to figure out how to economically and feasibly installing a generator that far away from the practice the the the jet the generators right across the street from the meter room so it's like all the power to the building is right there and you know anywhere else you go on the property you have to go through the pavement you know cut up pavement and route whatever the lines are and it's very cumbersome so there's really no other practical location except in that green belt there and we literally put it as close to the meter room as you could get up any other questions from the board because we know we're going to hear from the public all right I'm assuming those like to speak on this raise your hand okay so I'm opening a public hearing why don't you come up and you're the only one that raised your hand okay well first of all I'd like to thank you for a very interesting evening I thought I'd be here about an hour and a half but I'm Debbie Allison for that no it's it's totally fine i'm debbie allison and in true transparency i am the board president of foxcroft of bloomfield but i'm actually here as patient and you don't know that i have um 11 family members and i've had more that have been um patients at farm brook dental for probably uh i'm gonna give my age away but over 50 years how long was ron ron went to school with my dad mike lodish no i was i was a baby um in any event i'm i'm going to um cut to the chase i'm writing and i'm here not as the board president i'm here as a personal patient i'm writing uh and i sent an email to express my strong support for the proposed generator installation request submitted by farm brook dental as a resident and my property was on there i'm at 460 buildings gate i'm not close to where the generous but i'm really close to where the parking lot is um i'm here to talk to you about two of

  151. for that no it's it's totally fine i'm debbie allison and in true transparency i am the board president of foxcroft of bloomfield but i'm actually here as patient and you don't know that i have um 11 family members and i've had more that have been um patients at farm brook dental for probably uh i'm gonna give my age away but over 50 years how long was ron ron went to school with my dad mike lodish no i was i was a baby um in any event i'm i'm going to um cut to the chase i'm writing and i'm here not as the board president i'm here as a personal patient i'm writing uh and i sent an email to express my strong support for the proposed generator installation request submitted by farm brook dental as a resident and my property was on there i'm at 460 buildings gate i'm not close to where the generous but i'm really close to where the parking lot is um i'm here to talk to you about two of my family members who um have both had primary cancers three times uh one of them is younger than me and her she's been trying to get tired she's not the first one of them is younger than me and her family members in school 50s and the other is 85 years old and now you know might know who I am yeah my mother has one lung basically that functions and has had massive problems with her teeth due to chemotherapy and radiation and so is my sister they're both patients and we do have a lot of power outages and it's only our condo complex this area our clubhouse is lucky enough to be on the firehouses grid so they're never impacted and some of Foxcroft homes are impacted when the power goes out you will often hear generators kick on in the homes behind us and some in our neighborhood my mother with her one lung if she's in the middle of a procedure and I have been a health

  152. generous but i'm really close to where the parking lot is um i'm here to talk to you about two of my family members who um have both had primary cancers three times uh one of them is younger than me and her she's been trying to get tired she's not the first one of them is younger than me and her family members in school 50s and the other is 85 years old and now you know might know who I am yeah my mother has one lung basically that functions and has had massive problems with her teeth due to chemotherapy and radiation and so is my sister they're both patients and we do have a lot of power outages and it's only our condo complex this area our clubhouse is lucky enough to be on the firehouses grid so they're never impacted and some of Foxcroft homes are impacted when the power goes out you will often hear generators kick on in the homes behind us and some in our neighborhood my mother with her one lung if she's in the middle of a procedure and I have been a health care worker I'm now fourth generation is under grave harm and actually could die if they're just simply giving her some gas and anesthetizing her and she loves to spend money at farmbrook dental we kid her that she's wasting our inheritance with all of her teeth work but again due to chemotherapy with her beautiful teeth exactly so what I want to share with you is some of my neighbors who didn't last here we're coming here tonight to tell you this is terrible but really it's what it is DTE is not going to change the grid system for this small area we've been asking as a board for many years I trust that the township is going to adhere to positioning in the setbacks noise mitigation and the screening it's public health and a safety item in my opinion the power doesn't go out often but when

  153. my mother with her one lung if she's in the middle of a procedure and I have been a health care worker I'm now fourth generation is under grave harm and actually could die if they're just simply giving her some gas and anesthetizing her and she loves to spend money at farmbrook dental we kid her that she's wasting our inheritance with all of her teeth work but again due to chemotherapy with her beautiful teeth exactly so what I want to share with you is some of my neighbors who didn't last here we're coming here tonight to tell you this is terrible but really it's what it is DTE is not going to change the grid system for this small area we've been asking as a board for many years I trust that the township is going to adhere to positioning in the setbacks noise mitigation and the screening it's public health and a safety item in my opinion the power doesn't go out often but when it does if it was your family member my ex-husband's an anesthesiologist and things can happen very quickly and even though the fire departments across the street we'd like to see Pat Lodish live another 15 years to be a hundred and so I'm going to respectfully ask you to approve this due to the fact that it is public safety those guys don't want to work when the power goes out they're going to safely assure patients out of anesthesia and out of procedures and I'm sure get them out the door and I fully support that as a health care worker and maybe some day you guys can help us get DTE to fix our little power issue there other than that my family submitted a bunch of emails and that's really all I have to say so thank you very much and we never as we have our board meeting here our annual meeting sit in your chairs but it's been a riveting evening and I want to thank you all for it. That's all. Thank you. Well I've had the pleasure of meeting her mom. She's quite

  154. health and a safety item in my opinion the power doesn't go out often but when it does if it was your family member my ex-husband's an anesthesiologist and things can happen very quickly and even though the fire departments across the street we'd like to see Pat Lodish live another 15 years to be a hundred and so I'm going to respectfully ask you to approve this due to the fact that it is public safety those guys don't want to work when the power goes out they're going to safely assure patients out of anesthesia and out of procedures and I'm sure get them out the door and I fully support that as a health care worker and maybe some day you guys can help us get DTE to fix our little power issue there other than that my family submitted a bunch of emails and that's really all I have to say so thank you very much and we never as we have our board meeting here our annual meeting sit in your chairs but it's been a riveting evening and I want to thank you all for it. That's all. Thank you. Well I've had the pleasure of meeting her mom. She's quite sprightly. She's a piece of work isn't she? She's very colorful. She should have met Doc Lodish. No, no, no, no, but I've always enjoyed my interactions with her mom. So hold on just a second. That was a wonderful surprise. Thank you very, very much because I wasn't quite expecting that. I did read the letters. Is there anyone else would like to speak on this? Close the public hearing. I don't know that there's a need to respond. I think are you ready for a motion? Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. And thank you again for your patience. With regard to the dimensional variance requests at 6400 Telegraph Road, I move that the appeal be approved as presented as requested based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the order. to be unduly burdensome due to the fact that there are other generators in the area power during a medical procedure is important there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason that it is screened with a wall and other

  155. to thank you all for it. That's all. Thank you. Well I've had the pleasure of meeting her mom. She's quite sprightly. She's a piece of work isn't she? She's very colorful. She should have met Doc Lodish. No, no, no, no, but I've always enjoyed my interactions with her mom. So hold on just a second. That was a wonderful surprise. Thank you very, very much because I wasn't quite expecting that. I did read the letters. Is there anyone else would like to speak on this? Close the public hearing. I don't know that there's a need to respond. I think are you ready for a motion? Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. And thank you again for your patience. With regard to the dimensional variance requests at 6400 Telegraph Road, I move that the appeal be approved as presented as requested based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the order. to be unduly burdensome due to the fact that there are other generators in the area power during a medical procedure is important there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason that it is screened with a wall and other screening materials and the township will hold them accountable for being below the noise ordinance unique circumstances with the property have demonstrated considering that power goes out often and as a result that's not self-created so if approved the motion must include all application for necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation the generator it does say here additional evergreen plantings shall be required but I'm gonna say may be required because some sort of mitigation if it's necessary may need to be done based on the township decibel levels support support motion support any discussion so on that point so there there is a wall that's going up yeah so there's an existing screen of arborbites and it's gonna just go just past where that that's a little smoking area bench that's pretty well screened yeah okay yeah got it then all right so any other discussion all those in favor say I I

  156. adjoining neighbors by reason that it is screened with a wall and other screening materials and the township will hold them accountable for being below the noise ordinance unique circumstances with the property have demonstrated considering that power goes out often and as a result that's not self-created so if approved the motion must include all application for necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation the generator it does say here additional evergreen plantings shall be required but I'm gonna say may be required because some sort of mitigation if it's necessary may need to be done based on the township decibel levels support support motion support any discussion so on that point so there there is a wall that's going up yeah so there's an existing screen of arborbites and it's gonna just go just past where that that's a little smoking area bench that's pretty well screened yeah okay yeah got it then all right so any other discussion all those in favor say I I Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. Thanks for your time. And, Chris, thanks for advocating for greenery in our neighborhoods. We love it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good night. Calling the next item, item 18, 42931 Woodward Avenue. Good evening, ZVA board. My name is Steve Savagio. It's my son, Stephen Savagio. We're partners in business, and my best boy here. I actually have two boys. They're both really, really good. Nevertheless, we are here tonight. We won't tell your other son. I was going to say. I saw all my grandkids. You're my favorite one. Is he watching? He might be. He might be. Okay. So we are in the middle of building out Nourished by Western Market is the name of the business, and we're located at 42391. 42931 Woodward Avenue, corner of Square Lake and Woodward. So we have a slight hardship there with the viewing of the building and the identification of it. It's not the building that you can't see. It's you can't see the markings on the building because it faces northeast. So if you're traveling northbound on Woodward Avenue, you can't see the sign until you get

  157. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. Thanks for your time. And, Chris, thanks for advocating for greenery in our neighborhoods. We love it. Thank you. Appreciate it. Have a good night. Calling the next item, item 18, 42931 Woodward Avenue. Good evening, ZVA board. My name is Steve Savagio. It's my son, Stephen Savagio. We're partners in business, and my best boy here. I actually have two boys. They're both really, really good. Nevertheless, we are here tonight. We won't tell your other son. I was going to say. I saw all my grandkids. You're my favorite one. Is he watching? He might be. He might be. Okay. So we are in the middle of building out Nourished by Western Market is the name of the business, and we're located at 42391. 42931 Woodward Avenue, corner of Square Lake and Woodward. So we have a slight hardship there with the viewing of the building and the identification of it. It's not the building that you can't see. It's you can't see the markings on the building because it faces northeast. So if you're traveling northbound on Woodward Avenue, you can't see the sign until you get to the intersection of Square Lake and Woodward, which is actually too late to actually get over if you were to get over, or if you're trying to make the stop prior to the actual shopping center. So what we're asking for is a variance on the 120 square feet of signage to add a second sign that faces south on the side of the building. And as you see it to the right there, that's the east elevation. The front sign is 20 by 5, which is 100 square feet. The other sign is 3 by 12, which is 36 square feet, total of 136 square feet. And so the ask is the variance of the second sign and 16 additional square feet. Because of the scale of the building, how big it is, this is done by the sign company and helped out by our design team as far as sizing to make sure it fits and looks right in comparison to what the building size is. And I have some other photos here if you need them. I don't know if you have other photos of the actual sight lines from the street. We're really familiar with this property. We've already dealt with some variances related to it. And in the two roads that you abut, this makes sense.

  158. So if you're traveling northbound on Woodward Avenue, you can't see the sign until you get to the intersection of Square Lake and Woodward, which is actually too late to actually get over if you were to get over, or if you're trying to make the stop prior to the actual shopping center. So what we're asking for is a variance on the 120 square feet of signage to add a second sign that faces south on the side of the building. And as you see it to the right there, that's the east elevation. The front sign is 20 by 5, which is 100 square feet. The other sign is 3 by 12, which is 36 square feet, total of 136 square feet. And so the ask is the variance of the second sign and 16 additional square feet. Because of the scale of the building, how big it is, this is done by the sign company and helped out by our design team as far as sizing to make sure it fits and looks right in comparison to what the building size is. And I have some other photos here if you need them. I don't know if you have other photos of the actual sight lines from the street. We're really familiar with this property. We've already dealt with some variances related to it. And in the two roads that you abut, this makes sense. And it's actually kind of like a... It's all about sight lines and entry. And we think that the sign company's done a great job designing the sign. It's a nice upscale sign. It doesn't flash. It doesn't go weird. It's nice. It's not crazy. And we're respectfully asking for a variance. Thanks very much. Any other questions? A little openness to the public. Anyone who would like to speak? Closed public. carry and bring it back for a motion in regards for the dimensional variance in regards to the appeal at 42 931 woodward avenue for the variance for the two wall signs i move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance was strictly under the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because again in the corner of two major roads and again woodward is fast so trying to have people come to your business which is what you want you need to have some signage to capture both north and south traffic there is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the fact of again other people in this area have these type of signs um unique search of this property been demonstrated given the fact again you have two frontages on a road that does 50 plus miles an hour this is not self-created because again the way the building was oriented was done

  159. And in the two roads that you abut, this makes sense. And it's actually kind of like a... It's all about sight lines and entry. And we think that the sign company's done a great job designing the sign. It's a nice upscale sign. It doesn't flash. It doesn't go weird. It's nice. It's not crazy. And we're respectfully asking for a variance. Thanks very much. Any other questions? A little openness to the public. Anyone who would like to speak? Closed public. carry and bring it back for a motion in regards for the dimensional variance in regards to the appeal at 42 931 woodward avenue for the variance for the two wall signs i move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance was strictly under the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because again in the corner of two major roads and again woodward is fast so trying to have people come to your business which is what you want you need to have some signage to capture both north and south traffic there is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the fact of again other people in this area have these type of signs um unique search of this property been demonstrated given the fact again you have two frontages on a road that does 50 plus miles an hour this is not self-created because again the way the building was oriented was done before you guys bought it or are leasing it and making your improvements if approved all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of those signs support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request thank you very much uh october mid to end is when we're projecting just so you know so we appreciate word of mouth be great we love you guys and we really want to be a part of the community we're looking forward to it you've done a great job thank you got a good boy there i'm very fortunate Calling item 19, 43003 Woodward Avenue. Yes, I'm Paul Ferguson standing in from Northern Sign Company, standing in for the Kafaris. They apologized that they had a kind of emergency midday and said they wouldn't be able to make it. So we are actually seeking a variance for a second sign located at 43003 Woodward Avenue. As you can see, again, we just discussed that intersection. Not only do people travel fast, on an average, 45,000 vehicles go through that intersection on a daily basis.

  160. plus miles an hour this is not self-created because again the way the building was oriented was done before you guys bought it or are leasing it and making your improvements if approved all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of those signs support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request thank you very much uh october mid to end is when we're projecting just so you know so we appreciate word of mouth be great we love you guys and we really want to be a part of the community we're looking forward to it you've done a great job thank you got a good boy there i'm very fortunate Calling item 19, 43003 Woodward Avenue. Yes, I'm Paul Ferguson standing in from Northern Sign Company, standing in for the Kafaris. They apologized that they had a kind of emergency midday and said they wouldn't be able to make it. So we are actually seeking a variance for a second sign located at 43003 Woodward Avenue. As you can see, again, we just discussed that intersection. Not only do people travel fast, on an average, 45,000 vehicles go through that intersection on a daily basis. This is a unique parcel, too, because it actually has two easements, but the one that comes off a square lake going westbound is a little hectic. And the one that comes off of southbound Woodward seems to be more of a desired entrance because you've got the lights there slowing the traffic down so you can pull your way in. Kind of using that sign on that elevation. I believe it's the east elevation. We're looking for the sign there as the additional sign to try to pull people into that easement. Any questions? Is the sign on the inside of it that shows liquor going to be removed? You already have a sign inside? Yes, yes. It's being black. Yes, yes. Yes, any of the window signage that... I think it's a big part, so... Yes, I am. Umm... I am right in my... guys deem non-compliant they were more than willing to remove it so cuz I was on the board when we approved you guys getting a liquor license not you you're the sign company the problem is I would love to talk to the applicant yeah no I kind of know the history I know you're the sign guy but I do know the history

  161. Not only do people travel fast, on an average, 45,000 vehicles go through that intersection on a daily basis. This is a unique parcel, too, because it actually has two easements, but the one that comes off a square lake going westbound is a little hectic. And the one that comes off of southbound Woodward seems to be more of a desired entrance because you've got the lights there slowing the traffic down so you can pull your way in. Kind of using that sign on that elevation. I believe it's the east elevation. We're looking for the sign there as the additional sign to try to pull people into that easement. Any questions? Is the sign on the inside of it that shows liquor going to be removed? You already have a sign inside? Yes, yes. It's being black. Yes, yes. Yes, any of the window signage that... I think it's a big part, so... Yes, I am. Umm... I am right in my... guys deem non-compliant they were more than willing to remove it so cuz I was on the board when we approved you guys getting a liquor license not you you're the sign company the problem is I would love to talk to the applicant yeah no I kind of know the history I know you're the sign guy but I do know the history of um so that was a big deal so now we're gonna blast the building with liquor signs it's really hard for me when it was really hard and it took a lot from the board to even allow that so I'm having a real tough time with this one because I want this business to be successful they've made great investments I don't know if you need the sign on Square Lake the other sign will capture both westbound people going westbound on Square Lake you'll see it and you're gonna get all the woodward traffic with the other sign again you've been so sensitive to the liquor signs and the and liquor in the township to blast it all over is like you're asking for people to want to take it away that's my opinion I'd love to hear my colleagues I can I can see that point I mean you know I'm not trying to take business from you by the way you know well again but I I know this is new because I remember you know the first time I saw one of these ago this is kind of a change and so I think your points well taken Chris I I just give him the one same reaction

  162. kind of know the history I know you're the sign guy but I do know the history of um so that was a big deal so now we're gonna blast the building with liquor signs it's really hard for me when it was really hard and it took a lot from the board to even allow that so I'm having a real tough time with this one because I want this business to be successful they've made great investments I don't know if you need the sign on Square Lake the other sign will capture both westbound people going westbound on Square Lake you'll see it and you're gonna get all the woodward traffic with the other sign again you've been so sensitive to the liquor signs and the and liquor in the township to blast it all over is like you're asking for people to want to take it away that's my opinion I'd love to hear my colleagues I can I can see that point I mean you know I'm not trying to take business from you by the way you know well again but I I know this is new because I remember you know the first time I saw one of these ago this is kind of a change and so I think your points well taken Chris I I just give him the one same reaction So I want you to sell signs. I do. I would suggest that if you're concerned about the sign that says liquor, then make sure that's part of your motion that that's removed as well. Okay. I appreciate that. And the thing is, he's getting a sign. It's not like you're not giving him a sign. Right. So, I mean, nothing's going to negatively impact the business. Okay. Again, I'm not the owner, but let's go. We've got to make a public comment. The gentleman's been waiting. I would like to, anyone, would you like to comment on this openness to public hearing? Was there anything? Were you here for something else? Apparently, I'm not on the agenda. I've got to notice that on 3355 Barland, last name Cassidy, someone applied for me for two sheds, and I'm just here to. Well, we did two sheds, but not on Cassidy. Not on Barland. Well, anyway, let's, wait a minute, I just, I went, so I'm going to close the public hearing. Let's bring it back for a motion, then we'll talk to you. I'll make this motion, since I'm the one who's doing it. So, in regards to the dimensional variance at 43003 Woodward Avenue, I approve, for the variance, for the dimensional variance for the two wall signs,

  163. So I want you to sell signs. I do. I would suggest that if you're concerned about the sign that says liquor, then make sure that's part of your motion that that's removed as well. Okay. I appreciate that. And the thing is, he's getting a sign. It's not like you're not giving him a sign. Right. So, I mean, nothing's going to negatively impact the business. Okay. Again, I'm not the owner, but let's go. We've got to make a public comment. The gentleman's been waiting. I would like to, anyone, would you like to comment on this openness to public hearing? Was there anything? Were you here for something else? Apparently, I'm not on the agenda. I've got to notice that on 3355 Barland, last name Cassidy, someone applied for me for two sheds, and I'm just here to. Well, we did two sheds, but not on Cassidy. Not on Barland. Well, anyway, let's, wait a minute, I just, I went, so I'm going to close the public hearing. Let's bring it back for a motion, then we'll talk to you. I'll make this motion, since I'm the one who's doing it. So, in regards to the dimensional variance at 43003 Woodward Avenue, I approve, for the variance, for the dimensional variance for the two wall signs, I move the variance to be approved as amended. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance is strictly the ordinance to be unduly burdensome, because, again, like they said, there are two very. fast roads here and it's hard for them to be able to have signage to capture that audience. There is no injustice to you joining here by the reason of when you get to the amended part you'll know. The unique circumstance of the property have been demonstrated. Again, frontages on both Woodward and Square Lake. This is not self-created. The self-created part is why we're removing it. So I am only willing to put the sign on the east facing portion of the building. I would like the sign removed on the southern portion of the building and the sign removed on the interior that says liquor. So the only sign that's being approved is the liquor sign as shown here on the east side of the building. Support. If approved, all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of signs and you have 60 days, not you, but your applicant has 60 days to remove that interior sign or be ticketed. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? The request is approved in part and denied in part.

  164. I approve, for the variance, for the dimensional variance for the two wall signs, I move the variance to be approved as amended. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance is strictly the ordinance to be unduly burdensome, because, again, like they said, there are two very. fast roads here and it's hard for them to be able to have signage to capture that audience. There is no injustice to you joining here by the reason of when you get to the amended part you'll know. The unique circumstance of the property have been demonstrated. Again, frontages on both Woodward and Square Lake. This is not self-created. The self-created part is why we're removing it. So I am only willing to put the sign on the east facing portion of the building. I would like the sign removed on the southern portion of the building and the sign removed on the interior that says liquor. So the only sign that's being approved is the liquor sign as shown here on the east side of the building. Support. If approved, all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of signs and you have 60 days, not you, but your applicant has 60 days to remove that interior sign or be ticketed. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? The request is approved in part and denied in part. Sure. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Appreciate waiting. No problem. Have a good evening guys. Make sure they know you're the messenger. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I just discovered where it was. It's my neighbor. Oh yeah. I just said that. It has happened before. And I told you about could I put a carport in it and just a few days later I got that. Oh my gosh I'm so sorry. That was different. I just, I just said, I go, I bet that he got a notice for another property. Yes, yeah. We haven't had two sheds. Oh my goodness gracious. I wish he would have let us know. Give him one of our gift baskets. Yes. Don't we have a township gift basket? Oh, come on. So do we have a motion to adjourn? Support. All those in favor of adjourn, we're adjourned. We are adjourned. We are adjourned. We are adjourned. He was adjourned.