the-compact
Zoning Board Of Appeals Wednesday, July 15, 2026 · 221 min

Bloomfield Township Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting on July 14, 2026

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. Good evening. We'll get started by standing and saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Could we take attendance? So noted. Okay, so I'll need a motion or discussion of the minutes from the June 9th meeting. So we have a motion to approve. Support. Good support. Motion and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. The minutes are approved. So if I could just get the introductory slide up. So as a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees per the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Banners pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing. to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium, address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the board for a request to be successful. An affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides you with a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. I'd like everyone to know that item 16, 5155, King's Gateway, has been postponed. It will not be heard tonight. And item 19, 6400, Telegraph, has been postponed to August.

  2. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing. to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium, address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the board for a request to be successful. An affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides you with a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. I'd like everyone to know that item 16, 5155, King's Gateway, has been postponed. It will not be heard tonight. And item 19, 6400, Telegraph, has been postponed to August. So we won't be taking those up. And we'll start with item 1, 344, Tilbury. Is the applicant ready? Hi, board. So my name is Sabrina Brown with Mosier Design, and I'm here on behalf of the homeowners at 344 Tilbury Road. We are here tonight to respectfully request approval for proposed water features, a built-in bench, and a trellis and water feature in the... rear yard and part of the side yard. These elements are part of a coordinated residential landscape plan intended to create an attractive, functional outdoor living environment while remaining compatible with the home and surrounding neighborhood. This application did go in front of the Bloomfield Village Board and was approved unanimously. I'm not sure if Kathy is here if she wrote a letter. The improvements are modest in scale with the trellis remaining well below the permitted 14-foot height. The trellis, which is the largest element that we are requesting for, is located at least 60 feet from the property lines as required. There is already dense evergreen screening in the rear yard. Where there are a couple gaps, we are proposing those to be filled in for complete screenage of the backyard. I guess kind of back side yard. The only setback variance

  3. And item 19, 6400, Telegraph, has been postponed to August. So we won't be taking those up. And we'll start with item 1, 344, Tilbury. Is the applicant ready? Hi, board. So my name is Sabrina Brown with Mosier Design, and I'm here on behalf of the homeowners at 344 Tilbury Road. We are here tonight to respectfully request approval for proposed water features, a built-in bench, and a trellis and water feature in the... rear yard and part of the side yard. These elements are part of a coordinated residential landscape plan intended to create an attractive, functional outdoor living environment while remaining compatible with the home and surrounding neighborhood. This application did go in front of the Bloomfield Village Board and was approved unanimously. I'm not sure if Kathy is here if she wrote a letter. The improvements are modest in scale with the trellis remaining well below the permitted 14-foot height. The trellis, which is the largest element that we are requesting for, is located at least 60 feet from the property lines as required. There is already dense evergreen screening in the rear yard. Where there are a couple gaps, we are proposing those to be filled in for complete screenage of the backyard. I guess kind of back side yard. The only setback variance tonight involves the side yard water feature at just over four feet long and just a little bit over three feet high. It is a very low profile kind of landscape element rather than building or the occupiable structure. Its placement is necessary to integrate it properly with the architectural and overall site plan or site design that we have created. It will not create privacy, drainage, safety, or visibility concerns to any of the neighbors or to anyone on the road. This proposal will not negatively affect the character of the neighborhood or interfere with the use and enjoyment of the neighboring properties. Instead, it represents a thoughtful and professional coordinated enhancement to the residents. With that being said, I'd be happy to answer. there any questions I did notice that the typo as if you didn't notice by the height of the fountain it should be three foot three foot four inches and I think it was type three foot by four inches high so just wanted to clarify that. Thank you for that clarification any questions from the board? No. So I'll open this to the public I believe Kathy is here.

  4. for complete screenage of the backyard. I guess kind of back side yard. The only setback variance tonight involves the side yard water feature at just over four feet long and just a little bit over three feet high. It is a very low profile kind of landscape element rather than building or the occupiable structure. Its placement is necessary to integrate it properly with the architectural and overall site plan or site design that we have created. It will not create privacy, drainage, safety, or visibility concerns to any of the neighbors or to anyone on the road. This proposal will not negatively affect the character of the neighborhood or interfere with the use and enjoyment of the neighboring properties. Instead, it represents a thoughtful and professional coordinated enhancement to the residents. With that being said, I'd be happy to answer. there any questions I did notice that the typo as if you didn't notice by the height of the fountain it should be three foot three foot four inches and I think it was type three foot by four inches high so just wanted to clarify that. Thank you for that clarification any questions from the board? No. So I'll open this to the public I believe Kathy is here. Good evening board Kathy Weisenborn from Bloomfield Village. Our board did review this proposal we did unanimously approve it the structures are located behind the house as we require there is full screening in that backyard and there's a couple except for a couple spots that the applicant committed to add additional screening so we support the permission and the dimensional various variance requests. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else that like to speak on this item? Okay. And I'll close the public hearing. So you've got a comment in favor I don't know that you need a response to that unless there's something you'd like to add. No. Okay. We appreciate working with Kathy. Okay. Mr. Chair I'll make a motion. Great. With regard to the permission request at the property of 344 Tilbury I move for the. structure water feature adjacent to the house bench trellis and fire feature I move that this request be approved as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to

  5. Good evening board Kathy Weisenborn from Bloomfield Village. Our board did review this proposal we did unanimously approve it the structures are located behind the house as we require there is full screening in that backyard and there's a couple except for a couple spots that the applicant committed to add additional screening so we support the permission and the dimensional various variance requests. Thank you. Thank you. Is there anyone else that like to speak on this item? Okay. And I'll close the public hearing. So you've got a comment in favor I don't know that you need a response to that unless there's something you'd like to add. No. Okay. We appreciate working with Kathy. Okay. Mr. Chair I'll make a motion. Great. With regard to the permission request at the property of 344 Tilbury I move for the. structure water feature adjacent to the house bench trellis and fire feature I move that this request be approved as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as that it is being fully screened is low profile and behind the house with regards to the dimensional variance for the water feature located in the side yard and encroaching 9 feet 5 inches into the required 16 foot side yard setback I move that this variance be approved as requested and based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that it is a corner lot additionally there is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that it will be fully screened unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that it is you know has excessive setbacks and that this is very conducive to the neighborhood and as a result is not self-created so if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and it says here additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the accessory structures from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of planting I did hear Kathy say though good so

  6. standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as that it is being fully screened is low profile and behind the house with regards to the dimensional variance for the water feature located in the side yard and encroaching 9 feet 5 inches into the required 16 foot side yard setback I move that this variance be approved as requested and based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that it is a corner lot additionally there is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that it will be fully screened unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that it is you know has excessive setbacks and that this is very conducive to the neighborhood and as a result is not self-created so if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and it says here additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the accessory structures from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of planting I did hear Kathy say though good so that the additional evergreen plaintiffs have addressed that so let's make sure those happen absolutely support so i have a motion to support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations request is granted thank you guys so calling item two 4831 ballantrae ballantrae yes this is a request for generator standby generator be placed in the front of the house which is of course an issue i fully expected this to be on the side a lot but that began to produce some some problems first of all is that the it's difficult to see but on that on that view on the top right is the garage of the house and so the gas line actually has to go through the garage there is no basement in that area there's no crawl space there's a second story over the garage so there's no attic space that puts the gas line through the area of the garage the the generator i've selected is a fairly large one for the sake of covering air conditioning and

  7. that the additional evergreen plaintiffs have addressed that so let's make sure those happen absolutely support so i have a motion to support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations request is granted thank you guys so calling item two 4831 ballantrae ballantrae yes this is a request for generator standby generator be placed in the front of the house which is of course an issue i fully expected this to be on the side a lot but that began to produce some some problems first of all is that the it's difficult to see but on that on that view on the top right is the garage of the house and so the gas line actually has to go through the garage there is no basement in that area there's no crawl space there's a second story over the garage so there's no attic space that puts the gas line through the area of the garage the the generator i've selected is a fairly large one for the sake of covering air conditioning and uh potentially an electric car down the line uh i don't own an electric car right now but i presume i will shortly so the gas line is serving a large volume that makes the pipe size large and the fact that it has to snake through that area of the garage around some features garage door openers and things like that makes like an equivalent of 140 feet of gas line which suddenly became an issue for me the front actually works out pretty well because there's a garden you can see in and just slightly below and to the right of that red square the red square being the generator that's a garden area between the porch and and the shrub below the generator so a garden area makes a great place to put in screening so we're going to put in evergreens that exceed the height of the machine whereas if you go over on the the other side where the electric meter is the side yard which would be the preferable location or i should say from a zoning standpoint you end up having to

  8. the the generator i've selected is a fairly large one for the sake of covering air conditioning and uh potentially an electric car down the line uh i don't own an electric car right now but i presume i will shortly so the gas line is serving a large volume that makes the pipe size large and the fact that it has to snake through that area of the garage around some features garage door openers and things like that makes like an equivalent of 140 feet of gas line which suddenly became an issue for me the front actually works out pretty well because there's a garden you can see in and just slightly below and to the right of that red square the red square being the generator that's a garden area between the porch and and the shrub below the generator so a garden area makes a great place to put in screening so we're going to put in evergreens that exceed the height of the machine whereas if you go over on the the other side where the electric meter is the side yard which would be the preferable location or i should say from a zoning standpoint you end up having to put screening in the pavement area of the of the driveway and that that turned out to be a big negative the other thing about this is that the the zoning the ordinance probably didn't anticipate the fact that there is no neighbor down where you see the the the ballantrae road sign road label down at the bottom of that image there's a you you below that so it is the pond that looks at the front and so between the fact that there is no neighbor and the fact that the screening would screen it from the road it makes a great location whereas conversely if I was to go with that side location that the ordinance would have expected I really put it right up against the neighbor's bedroom area the house is very close together well I mean they have a generator too and then they wrote a letter accepting of the front location so everything seems to point to that that front location you can hardly see the generator in this top view there's actually some other foliage there that would block it that's not the foliage we would be using it would have

  9. which would be the preferable location or i should say from a zoning standpoint you end up having to put screening in the pavement area of the of the driveway and that that turned out to be a big negative the other thing about this is that the the zoning the ordinance probably didn't anticipate the fact that there is no neighbor down where you see the the the ballantrae road sign road label down at the bottom of that image there's a you you below that so it is the pond that looks at the front and so between the fact that there is no neighbor and the fact that the screening would screen it from the road it makes a great location whereas conversely if I was to go with that side location that the ordinance would have expected I really put it right up against the neighbor's bedroom area the house is very close together well I mean they have a generator too and then they wrote a letter accepting of the front location so everything seems to point to that that front location you can hardly see the generator in this top view there's actually some other foliage there that would block it that's not the foliage we would be using it would have its own right up near the generator so based on these difficulties I'm respectively asking for a variance that would allow me to put that generator in the front we have any questions from the board so your landscape plan in the picture you had it looks like there's is it to our variety and then a brick wall so could you talk about the brick wall yes a lot of the placement is dependent on the fact that that kind of star-shaped thing that I labeled as a shrub there that is Japanese maple and we really kind of fostered that. It does a lot for the front there. The exhaust of the machine will point toward it and really I can't put an evergreen in the exhaust area just like I don't want that exhaust to hit the Japanese maple. So that would have to be a brick structure that matches the brick of the house and therefore taking the brunt of the heat from the machine. Arborbarii, I've just put two on the side there. Again, it's not a very

  10. that would block it that's not the foliage we would be using it would have its own right up near the generator so based on these difficulties I'm respectively asking for a variance that would allow me to put that generator in the front we have any questions from the board so your landscape plan in the picture you had it looks like there's is it to our variety and then a brick wall so could you talk about the brick wall yes a lot of the placement is dependent on the fact that that kind of star-shaped thing that I labeled as a shrub there that is Japanese maple and we really kind of fostered that. It does a lot for the front there. The exhaust of the machine will point toward it and really I can't put an evergreen in the exhaust area just like I don't want that exhaust to hit the Japanese maple. So that would have to be a brick structure that matches the brick of the house and therefore taking the brunt of the heat from the machine. Arborbarii, I've just put two on the side there. Again, it's not a very visible area but it will be shrouded year-round to a height above the machine. And what are those two plantings going to be that are shown on the diagram? What type of? Frank, I'm not a plant person but again guidance being an evergreen, arborbarii, what have you. Again, full screening year-round and over the height of the machine. Because we typically don't allow people to screen with a brick wall. Well in this instance he's indicating that the proposed screening material matches that of the house. Yes. So our zoning ordinance does allow that if it was a picket fence, what have you, that would be different. In this instance he's indicating it's a brick wall that matches the materials of the house. So I think in this we would be able to accept that. Yeah, it looks like the bottom part of it is siding is brick. Got it. Any other questions then? I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this? I'll close public hearing and bring it back.

  11. machine. Arborbarii, I've just put two on the side there. Again, it's not a very visible area but it will be shrouded year-round to a height above the machine. And what are those two plantings going to be that are shown on the diagram? What type of? Frank, I'm not a plant person but again guidance being an evergreen, arborbarii, what have you. Again, full screening year-round and over the height of the machine. Because we typically don't allow people to screen with a brick wall. Well in this instance he's indicating that the proposed screening material matches that of the house. Yes. So our zoning ordinance does allow that if it was a picket fence, what have you, that would be different. In this instance he's indicating it's a brick wall that matches the materials of the house. So I think in this we would be able to accept that. Yeah, it looks like the bottom part of it is siding is brick. Got it. Any other questions then? I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this? I'll close public hearing and bring it back. Mr. Terrell, I'd like to make a motion. In regards to the appeal at 4831 Bonnetray Road for dimensional variance for a generator located in the front yard and immediately adjacent to the structure, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without the generator, it would prevent reasonable use of the property, especially as he anticipates to use it and with the current often power outages that we have. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be heavily screened. It is probably in the best location for that type of screening, being how his house is oriented. Out of unique circumstances of the property, that being said, the existing floor plan of the property provides different kinds of limitations, and because of that, it is not self-created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. An additional evergreen planting will be made within one year, and all permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be made within one year.

  12. Mr. Terrell, I'd like to make a motion. In regards to the appeal at 4831 Bonnetray Road for dimensional variance for a generator located in the front yard and immediately adjacent to the structure, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without the generator, it would prevent reasonable use of the property, especially as he anticipates to use it and with the current often power outages that we have. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be heavily screened. It is probably in the best location for that type of screening, being how his house is oriented. Out of unique circumstances of the property, that being said, the existing floor plan of the property provides different kinds of limitations, and because of that, it is not self-created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. An additional evergreen planting will be made within one year, and all permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be made within one year. required to screen the generator from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the unit at the time of planting. Support. I have motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations your request is granted. Thank you. You're welcome. Next up item three. One, two, three, six. Desia Avenue? Desia. French. Last syllable is silent. My French teacher would be happy. Okay. My name is Rebecca Beery and I'm requesting an eight by ten foot shed to be placed behind my garage. I don't know what else you want to know. No, that's great. I have an older Saab. It's accurate. It's concise. It's good. I have an older Saab. It's a whole Saab story that I would like to fit in my garage and right now cannot fit my garage because of all the other tractor and snowblower and things like that. So I would like to put anybody see your shed from any direction. So that picture

  13. required to screen the generator from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the unit at the time of planting. Support. I have motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations your request is granted. Thank you. You're welcome. Next up item three. One, two, three, six. Desia Avenue? Desia. French. Last syllable is silent. My French teacher would be happy. Okay. My name is Rebecca Beery and I'm requesting an eight by ten foot shed to be placed behind my garage. I don't know what else you want to know. No, that's great. I have an older Saab. It's accurate. It's concise. It's good. I have an older Saab. It's a whole Saab story that I would like to fit in my garage and right now cannot fit my garage because of all the other tractor and snowblower and things like that. So I would like to put anybody see your shed from any direction. So that picture there where the stump is, I am standing where the shed would be. So the both of those pictures are from the edge of the ten foot. So the back is completely covered with, they're not evergreens, there's a fence there. There's a neighbor behind me on Atkinson Road who was supposed to fix her fence and never did. So I never see her. If you want to go back to the other picture, the blue house is actually a rental house. So behind that tree is a deck, which I can never see. And you can't see it on this picture, and I wish I would have included it. But if you go to the right where it says west, there is a dilapidated, ugly, horrible-looking shed that's been there forever. That is clear to my view. If you look at the top picture with my new deck, behind those trees is an old, beat-up garage, which he never uses. And there's another shed on the corner of that tree, which is also not covered. So there's a lot that I can see in my yard. My shed would be behind the garage next to my gate, which is right there at the bottom picture.

  14. I would like to put anybody see your shed from any direction. So that picture there where the stump is, I am standing where the shed would be. So the both of those pictures are from the edge of the ten foot. So the back is completely covered with, they're not evergreens, there's a fence there. There's a neighbor behind me on Atkinson Road who was supposed to fix her fence and never did. So I never see her. If you want to go back to the other picture, the blue house is actually a rental house. So behind that tree is a deck, which I can never see. And you can't see it on this picture, and I wish I would have included it. But if you go to the right where it says west, there is a dilapidated, ugly, horrible-looking shed that's been there forever. That is clear to my view. If you look at the top picture with my new deck, behind those trees is an old, beat-up garage, which he never uses. And there's another shed on the corner of that tree, which is also not covered. So there's a lot that I can see in my yard. My shed would be behind the garage next to my gate, which is right there at the bottom picture. So it would actually be to the east of that gate, which is where my house is. So are you planning on screening the shed? Well, I don't know exactly how I would do that unless I evergreen my whole backyard. I mean, I could do a little bit by the, in front of where the, to the right of the gate. But really, the only place you would see it if you're going, and I don't know because it's not there yet, would be going east. So thank you. on DESIACs, I don't think you would see it from any other direction. Yeah, that was a direction I was most concerned about when I asked the question, and it seems like to the east maybe you'd need, right? Because it's helpful that it's tucked up against the house, but our ordinance requires that it has to be screened 12 months out of the year. So, unfortunately, I've been to the site. Well, I don't have a problem with screening it. I just think that that ordinance should be uniformly enforced to the three ugly sheds that I see all the time. Yeah, there's another brand new shed on Ward Avenue that they just built with a screening porch, and you can see that clearly from every road. And so I gathered from your answer when you were mentioning those, that those irritate you, but at least for tonight, they don't even decide. They don't irritate me to the effect that I don't have a problem planting trees

  15. My shed would be behind the garage next to my gate, which is right there at the bottom picture. So it would actually be to the east of that gate, which is where my house is. So are you planning on screening the shed? Well, I don't know exactly how I would do that unless I evergreen my whole backyard. I mean, I could do a little bit by the, in front of where the, to the right of the gate. But really, the only place you would see it if you're going, and I don't know because it's not there yet, would be going east. So thank you. on DESIACs, I don't think you would see it from any other direction. Yeah, that was a direction I was most concerned about when I asked the question, and it seems like to the east maybe you'd need, right? Because it's helpful that it's tucked up against the house, but our ordinance requires that it has to be screened 12 months out of the year. So, unfortunately, I've been to the site. Well, I don't have a problem with screening it. I just think that that ordinance should be uniformly enforced to the three ugly sheds that I see all the time. Yeah, there's another brand new shed on Ward Avenue that they just built with a screening porch, and you can see that clearly from every road. And so I gathered from your answer when you were mentioning those, that those irritate you, but at least for tonight, they don't even decide. They don't irritate me to the effect that I don't have a problem planting trees as long as it's enforced with the other neighbors around me. If they're grandfathered in, then that's a different story. But, I mean, I just don't know where I'd put them exactly. Do we decide that once the shed is built where the evergreens would go? Is that the plan? Well, typically when you come in, you come in with a screening plan, and you say, this is where I'm going to screen. Well, the only, well, the gate's there, first of all. So I can't put them in front of the gate because that would be where I'd have to pull the tractor in and out. It's the only gate I have. So I could put them to the west of the gate, which I don't have a problem with. So. Okay. Just depending on how you want to line it up. Well, all I can tell you is the standard for the ordinances it has to be screened from public view. And so that's what you'd have to do. And so. you would make the decision. I mean, I think particularly the east, it seems like, and I think you even said it, that's where it might be most visible. So if you could put them there to the east, don't block the gate. It would be to the west. Oh, the east view. Correct, going to the east. Yes, east view. I'm sorry. But like I said, I can't block the gate. Understood. Any other questions? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this? So I'll close by hearing. Any other questions to the applicant or questions about

  16. that I don't have a problem planting trees as long as it's enforced with the other neighbors around me. If they're grandfathered in, then that's a different story. But, I mean, I just don't know where I'd put them exactly. Do we decide that once the shed is built where the evergreens would go? Is that the plan? Well, typically when you come in, you come in with a screening plan, and you say, this is where I'm going to screen. Well, the only, well, the gate's there, first of all. So I can't put them in front of the gate because that would be where I'd have to pull the tractor in and out. It's the only gate I have. So I could put them to the west of the gate, which I don't have a problem with. So. Okay. Just depending on how you want to line it up. Well, all I can tell you is the standard for the ordinances it has to be screened from public view. And so that's what you'd have to do. And so. you would make the decision. I mean, I think particularly the east, it seems like, and I think you even said it, that's where it might be most visible. So if you could put them there to the east, don't block the gate. It would be to the west. Oh, the east view. Correct, going to the east. Yes, east view. I'm sorry. But like I said, I can't block the gate. Understood. Any other questions? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this? So I'll close by hearing. Any other questions to the applicant or questions about the screening or? Yeah, I just want to make sure that we were making it clear to the applicant that, you know, we're not expecting you to put arborvitaes and chloris the entire edge of your yard. It's just, you know, whatever would be appropriate number of feedback from the shed itself, just you can put the arbs right there that will reduce or minimize your investment. You'd only have to have enough arbs to enough height to cover the shed at the time of construction or installation and stuff like that. So. So do you see the yellow shed on that drawing? Yeah. It says 10 feet. So you want me to put arborvitaes all the way around that? Because that's where my garden is. Or do you want them just along on that 15 foot length of fence next to the gate? Or there's an opportunity for people to see it, your neighbors to see it. Right. Like I, unless my neighbor. On the east side, the yellow house goes out in his backyard and moses grass, he's never going to see it. So, because it's behind. I would assume he moses grass. Well, I'm saying. He's got sheep or something.

  17. on this? So I'll close by hearing. Any other questions to the applicant or questions about the screening or? Yeah, I just want to make sure that we were making it clear to the applicant that, you know, we're not expecting you to put arborvitaes and chloris the entire edge of your yard. It's just, you know, whatever would be appropriate number of feedback from the shed itself, just you can put the arbs right there that will reduce or minimize your investment. You'd only have to have enough arbs to enough height to cover the shed at the time of construction or installation and stuff like that. So. So do you see the yellow shed on that drawing? Yeah. It says 10 feet. So you want me to put arborvitaes all the way around that? Because that's where my garden is. Or do you want them just along on that 15 foot length of fence next to the gate? Or there's an opportunity for people to see it, your neighbors to see it. Right. Like I, unless my neighbor. On the east side, the yellow house goes out in his backyard and moses grass, he's never going to see it. So, because it's behind. I would assume he moses grass. Well, I'm saying. He's got sheep or something. Well, I have a border collie, so that might work out. Okay. But I'm saying, like, if you take that picture where I'm standing, my house takes up most of that east side. Yeah. Right. So, you may, I think what my fellow board member was saying is make sure that, because at one point, I think it sounded like you thought you had to put screening across the whole back of your yard. Yeah, that would be a lot. No. We're talking about, you can, people just usually put it right around the shed itself, so you, you know, you could very much limit what you would actually have to screen, just the part that's visible. Okay. I appreciate it. If that makes sense. Makes sense. Okay. So, are you ready for a motion? I think so. I'd be happy to make that motion. Please do. Let's see. So, for the motion for the appeal at 1236 Desiaks Avenue. Okay. Regarding the permission request for the shed, I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards, um, because, um, the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood given the popularity of sheds in that particular area. Yeah.

  18. Well, I have a border collie, so that might work out. Okay. But I'm saying, like, if you take that picture where I'm standing, my house takes up most of that east side. Yeah. Right. So, you may, I think what my fellow board member was saying is make sure that, because at one point, I think it sounded like you thought you had to put screening across the whole back of your yard. Yeah, that would be a lot. No. We're talking about, you can, people just usually put it right around the shed itself, so you, you know, you could very much limit what you would actually have to screen, just the part that's visible. Okay. I appreciate it. If that makes sense. Makes sense. Okay. So, are you ready for a motion? I think so. I'd be happy to make that motion. Please do. Let's see. So, for the motion for the appeal at 1236 Desiaks Avenue. Okay. Regarding the permission request for the shed, I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards, um, because, um, the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood given the popularity of sheds in that particular area. Yeah. If approved, the motion must include an application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And as we've discussed, additional evergreen plantings will be required to screen the shed from public view 365 days a year and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of the planting, not including blocking your entrance to the shed. Support. I have a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations to request as granted. Thank you. So calling item number 4, 1205-Linebach. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Good evening. Good evening. I'm more or less the same as her. I have an old playscape in my backyard that I had to tear down because it was falling down, and I want to put a shed in its spot. I will meet all your setbacks as far as 16 feet off the back wall and 16 feet off the side wall, so it would be more or less in the middle of my backyard where the drawing, where the yellow is.

  19. If approved, the motion must include an application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And as we've discussed, additional evergreen plantings will be required to screen the shed from public view 365 days a year and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of the planting, not including blocking your entrance to the shed. Support. I have a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations to request as granted. Thank you. So calling item number 4, 1205-Linebach. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Good evening. Good evening. I'm more or less the same as her. I have an old playscape in my backyard that I had to tear down because it was falling down, and I want to put a shed in its spot. I will meet all your setbacks as far as 16 feet off the back wall and 16 feet off the side wall, so it would be more or less in the middle of my backyard where the drawing, where the yellow is. I'm looking forward to try and do this in the next couple of months. I will meet all your – if you want me to put evergreens around, I can do that. But if you look where the gate is, that gate is on. 80 to 900 feet back from where the edge of the shed is and that's a four-foot high cyclone fence and it's another 50 feet to get to the roadway and with lots of heavy heavy trees so if I don't have to plant to have her by these or anything I would prefer to do that but other than that I'm asking for is to be able to put that in do we have any questions from the board so when the trees that you're referring to shed their leaves then would they be able to see the shed at that point I suppose they could at that point but that's only during the winter months and then on top of that in my neighborhood we have multiple sheds there I know it's grandfathered in they're exposed but it's the only angle and you can see it and then behind that shed my neighbor's garage is literally on my property line and it's bigger than that and you can see that we only require you to screen areas that would be you know in view when you know the deciduous trees have dropped their leaves and stuff like that

  20. I will meet all your setbacks as far as 16 feet off the back wall and 16 feet off the side wall, so it would be more or less in the middle of my backyard where the drawing, where the yellow is. I'm looking forward to try and do this in the next couple of months. I will meet all your – if you want me to put evergreens around, I can do that. But if you look where the gate is, that gate is on. 80 to 900 feet back from where the edge of the shed is and that's a four-foot high cyclone fence and it's another 50 feet to get to the roadway and with lots of heavy heavy trees so if I don't have to plant to have her by these or anything I would prefer to do that but other than that I'm asking for is to be able to put that in do we have any questions from the board so when the trees that you're referring to shed their leaves then would they be able to see the shed at that point I suppose they could at that point but that's only during the winter months and then on top of that in my neighborhood we have multiple sheds there I know it's grandfathered in they're exposed but it's the only angle and you can see it and then behind that shed my neighbor's garage is literally on my property line and it's bigger than that and you can see that we only require you to screen areas that would be you know in view when you know the deciduous trees have dropped their leaves and stuff like that if you could at least do that just to the height of the shed would it be okay if I turn around dinner along the fence line that way it covers more of my backyard keeping more of my backyard that's entirely up to you I left to me okay I'd be glad to do that your landscaping would be reviewed as part of the permit process yeah so can I go back to the because that when I talk to the staff we talked about the three lots and now I think I recall that we spoke at the counter I remember now. Go ahead. I've actually turned around and requested them to combine all the lots together. Thank you. Because that one lot that's at the top side of the page, that's only 32 feet wide. So the only thing you could put in that lot would be, and right now I have my garages in it, the only thing you could put in there would be a fence. That's the only thing. So it's totally an unusable property. And as you see, my neighbor's garage is right there on the north side of it. Or not the north side, it would be the east side of it, right on the property line. You're going to combine the three lots? I've already requested the township to do so. Correct. Yeah. You could mention it in the motion if you so choose. That would be a condition that the lots are joined, just to make sure that we have it on record.

  21. when you know the deciduous trees have dropped their leaves and stuff like that if you could at least do that just to the height of the shed would it be okay if I turn around dinner along the fence line that way it covers more of my backyard keeping more of my backyard that's entirely up to you I left to me okay I'd be glad to do that your landscaping would be reviewed as part of the permit process yeah so can I go back to the because that when I talk to the staff we talked about the three lots and now I think I recall that we spoke at the counter I remember now. Go ahead. I've actually turned around and requested them to combine all the lots together. Thank you. Because that one lot that's at the top side of the page, that's only 32 feet wide. So the only thing you could put in that lot would be, and right now I have my garages in it, the only thing you could put in there would be a fence. That's the only thing. So it's totally an unusable property. And as you see, my neighbor's garage is right there on the north side of it. Or not the north side, it would be the east side of it, right on the property line. You're going to combine the three lots? I've already requested the township to do so. Correct. Yeah. You could mention it in the motion if you so choose. That would be a condition that the lots are joined, just to make sure that we have it on record. Yeah, I think we ought to put that in just because his request wouldn't be feasible unless that was one lot. I've already requested it. It's actually four lots. Four lots, okay. Yeah, but I've already requested that. I actually got a letter in the mail for them already to say, so I'm trying to get that part done. I hope this is the public. Anyone would like to comment on this? So close it, bring it back. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion. Please do, Ed. Okay. Regarding the appeal at 1205 Leinbach Avenue, the permission request for the shed, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance. Do you have to advise him here? director, the roommate of the heirs and the recruits, whether he did it in the future, I'll be,. with section 42-76 standards because once again the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood given the popularity of sheds in that particular area now I'm going to make this motion with the understanding that all three lots are going to be combined as a result also application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and as we agreed you'd be putting evergreen plantings along any

  22. That would be a condition that the lots are joined, just to make sure that we have it on record. Yeah, I think we ought to put that in just because his request wouldn't be feasible unless that was one lot. I've already requested it. It's actually four lots. Four lots, okay. Yeah, but I've already requested that. I actually got a letter in the mail for them already to say, so I'm trying to get that part done. I hope this is the public. Anyone would like to comment on this? So close it, bring it back. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion. Please do, Ed. Okay. Regarding the appeal at 1205 Leinbach Avenue, the permission request for the shed, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance. Do you have to advise him here? director, the roommate of the heirs and the recruits, whether he did it in the future, I'll be,. with section 42-76 standards because once again the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood given the popularity of sheds in that particular area now I'm going to make this motion with the understanding that all three lots are going to be combined as a result also application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and as we agreed you'd be putting evergreen plantings along any areas where your neighbors might be able to see the shed let's say during the winter time and stuff like that we just need to make sure that it's screened from public view 365 days a year support I have a motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted uh i'm going to take a recess but if i don't have to leave okay do you anticipate uh i'll anticipate coming back okay okay so calling the next item uh three four three one uh devonbrook okay you Thank you. Good evening. My name is Anita, 3431 Devon Brook Drive. I'm here for approval for my invisible fence for my dough, German Sharper.

  23. obtained prior to installation and as we agreed you'd be putting evergreen plantings along any areas where your neighbors might be able to see the shed let's say during the winter time and stuff like that we just need to make sure that it's screened from public view 365 days a year support I have a motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted uh i'm going to take a recess but if i don't have to leave okay do you anticipate uh i'll anticipate coming back okay okay so calling the next item uh three four three one uh devonbrook okay you Thank you. Good evening. My name is Anita, 3431 Devon Brook Drive. I'm here for approval for my invisible fence for my dough, German Sharper. Okay. Could you tell us, you know, because typically we don't... 16 feet front yard and 25 feet backyard, but it's a big property. But what about on the sides there? Everywhere it's invisible fence. No, no. It's encroaching into the 16-foot side yard setbacks. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So typically we don't like the invisible fence to be right up against the property line. So is there...would it be possible to move it back? I'm not sure about it. Okay. Well, think about that. Okay. I'll open this to the public. Does anyone like to speak on this item? Yes. Hello, board. My name is Oscar Garner. I...

  24. Okay. Could you tell us, you know, because typically we don't... 16 feet front yard and 25 feet backyard, but it's a big property. But what about on the sides there? Everywhere it's invisible fence. No, no. It's encroaching into the 16-foot side yard setbacks. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So typically we don't like the invisible fence to be right up against the property line. So is there...would it be possible to move it back? I'm not sure about it. Okay. Well, think about that. Okay. I'll open this to the public. Does anyone like to speak on this item? Yes. Hello, board. My name is Oscar Garner. I... I reside at 3415 Barland Lane. You go back to, okay, the picture. So my home, the front yard is to the back side of my house. So if you cross the road, that is the back side of my house. First and foremost, the issue I have with the invisible fence is it's stated in the ordinance that under Section 826, any person owning a possession or harboring a dog shall not permit the dog to be confined or restrained in any manner anywhere on the lot or parcel except within the rear yard in any area setback such and such and such. This is stated three times in the ordinance in Section 827 as well under Section B as far as invisible fencing that should be maintained or installed in within the rear yard. The reason why I oppose to this is because, again, when I have company, for example, we're in the backyard and people see the dog out front and the question becomes, is he going to come over here? That's first and foremost. The second concern I have with this request is we've already had an Amazon delivery driver bitten by this dog last summer.

  25. I reside at 3415 Barland Lane. You go back to, okay, the picture. So my home, the front yard is to the back side of my house. So if you cross the road, that is the back side of my house. First and foremost, the issue I have with the invisible fence is it's stated in the ordinance that under Section 826, any person owning a possession or harboring a dog shall not permit the dog to be confined or restrained in any manner anywhere on the lot or parcel except within the rear yard in any area setback such and such and such. This is stated three times in the ordinance in Section 827 as well under Section B as far as invisible fencing that should be maintained or installed in within the rear yard. The reason why I oppose to this is because, again, when I have company, for example, we're in the backyard and people see the dog out front and the question becomes, is he going to come over here? That's first and foremost. The second concern I have with this request is we've already had an Amazon delivery driver bitten by this dog last summer. So that is also a concern. Did he get through the fence? I'm not sure if he... got through the fence maybe I don't think he got through the fence but I don't know he may have been out but I don't think the delivery driver knew that there was a dog in the yard so the delivered dog the delivery driver went so the dog but again the dog did bite someone another concern I have with this request is another ordinance as it relates to 8 section 8.24 that says no no person shall own or possess or harbor any dog by which loud freaking habitual barking yelping or howling becomes a nuisance to occupiers of the property and I have multiple plate made multiple calls to not only the police department which I know they can't do nothing they just come out but I've made calls to animal control as well because the dog is out in the front barking all times of 11 12 1 o'clock in the morning at night 5 o'clock in the morning and again this butts up to this is across the street from the backside of my home I recently

  26. The second concern I have with this request is we've already had an Amazon delivery driver bitten by this dog last summer. So that is also a concern. Did he get through the fence? I'm not sure if he... got through the fence maybe I don't think he got through the fence but I don't know he may have been out but I don't think the delivery driver knew that there was a dog in the yard so the delivered dog the delivery driver went so the dog but again the dog did bite someone another concern I have with this request is another ordinance as it relates to 8 section 8.24 that says no no person shall own or possess or harbor any dog by which loud freaking habitual barking yelping or howling becomes a nuisance to occupiers of the property and I have multiple plate made multiple calls to not only the police department which I know they can't do nothing they just come out but I've made calls to animal control as well because the dog is out in the front barking all times of 11 12 1 o'clock in the morning at night 5 o'clock in the morning and again this butts up to this is across the street from the backside of my home I recently planted 10 green giants their babies now to provide me a privacy fence which to to kind of like to not have to see that but at the same time last thing I'll leave with this it also states that the you must have approval from the board to install and invisible fence so clearly this invisible fence was installed without approval for the board from the board so with all the information that I just shared I asked that the board denied this approval thank you very much thank you excuse me sir before you leave where is your home on this so it's right this three four one five yes three four one five okay I see thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item all right I'll close

  27. butts up to this is across the street from the backside of my home I recently planted 10 green giants their babies now to provide me a privacy fence which to to kind of like to not have to see that but at the same time last thing I'll leave with this it also states that the you must have approval from the board to install and invisible fence so clearly this invisible fence was installed without approval for the board from the board so with all the information that I just shared I asked that the board denied this approval thank you very much thank you excuse me sir before you leave where is your home on this so it's right this three four one five yes three four one five okay I see thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item all right I'll close public hearing and let the applicant respond first of all the dog stayed the most of the time he stays inside the house only he get out when he needs to use the bathroom when he needs to do whatever he has to do we go outside it's a big yard we play with him the dog it's very safe very friendly we did have four or five times breaking in our home we did have four or five times breaking our cars and a front the dog is not outside a lot only when he goes and play and when he needs to get out outside Do you know what the size of your lot is? One acre. Okay, so he's got almost a whole acre there. Yes, in the back, yes. It just seems like there's a lot of opportunity to move that in and address, you know, and really comply with the ordinance. So you'd have to have it in your backyard within the setbacks. I think that'd be the only thing I'd be able to approve because I don't see a practical difficulty or a hardship for you to realize you have a big dog,

  28. thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item all right I'll close public hearing and let the applicant respond first of all the dog stayed the most of the time he stays inside the house only he get out when he needs to use the bathroom when he needs to do whatever he has to do we go outside it's a big yard we play with him the dog it's very safe very friendly we did have four or five times breaking in our home we did have four or five times breaking our cars and a front the dog is not outside a lot only when he goes and play and when he needs to get out outside Do you know what the size of your lot is? One acre. Okay, so he's got almost a whole acre there. Yes, in the back, yes. It just seems like there's a lot of opportunity to move that in and address, you know, and really comply with the ordinance. So you'd have to have it in your backyard within the setbacks. I think that'd be the only thing I'd be able to approve because I don't see a practical difficulty or a hardship for you to realize you have a big dog, but you have a pretty big lot there that you have a lot of space. And you just said it's in the house a lot and you just use it to go to the bathroom. Yes. So wouldn't that give him enough? Whatever you guys, whatever you decide, but to me. I like that. That's good. Yeah. To me, I think that he's a very protective dog, very safe dog, and we have a sign in front of the home, beware of the dog. Well, I know that, but we have an ordinance, right? Okay. So we want people to feel safe in their own homes as well, and the purpose behind this ordinance is really designed that way. So in general, there's some latitude with this, but you have enough property there to comply with our ordinance so that you don't need a variance. Yeah. And you seem to be in agreement with me because you... I really don't have a choice. The next word, guys. I'll try and get you. I think whatever is right now, to my opinion, it's good, and I don't have any problem. But like I said, I have to do whatever you guys decide. Because I think that's what the motion, I mean, I can't make the motion, but I think that's, am I speaking for everybody here?

  29. I think that'd be the only thing I'd be able to approve because I don't see a practical difficulty or a hardship for you to realize you have a big dog, but you have a pretty big lot there that you have a lot of space. And you just said it's in the house a lot and you just use it to go to the bathroom. Yes. So wouldn't that give him enough? Whatever you guys, whatever you decide, but to me. I like that. That's good. Yeah. To me, I think that he's a very protective dog, very safe dog, and we have a sign in front of the home, beware of the dog. Well, I know that, but we have an ordinance, right? Okay. So we want people to feel safe in their own homes as well, and the purpose behind this ordinance is really designed that way. So in general, there's some latitude with this, but you have enough property there to comply with our ordinance so that you don't need a variance. Yeah. And you seem to be in agreement with me because you... I really don't have a choice. The next word, guys. I'll try and get you. I think whatever is right now, to my opinion, it's good, and I don't have any problem. But like I said, I have to do whatever you guys decide. Because I think that's what the motion, I mean, I can't make the motion, but I think that's, am I speaking for everybody here? I don't, if you have a contract, go ahead. Yeah, my wife and I, we're dog lovers. We have a dog. Our dog is extremely protective of my wife. So, as soon as anybody starts to approach our property, it will just start barking like crazy. And because of that, we've been forced into a situation where we simply cannot let the dog go out anywhere where she might come in contact with people unless she's on a leash. So, because we don't want her biting the Amazon guy because the dog thinks that the Amazon guy is trying to steal her mom or anything like that. So, we need to come up with a solution that allows you to enjoy the dog and allow the dog to be safe, but also to allow visitors to your property like the Amazon people and your neighbors to be safe as well. So, whatever we come up with, we're going to try and come up with a solution that accomplishes that. So, you're taken care of, your dog is safe, and your neighbors and people who might be visiting your property are safe as well. Okay. So, can we get a motion now that puts it in the backyard? Okay.

  30. Because I think that's what the motion, I mean, I can't make the motion, but I think that's, am I speaking for everybody here? I don't, if you have a contract, go ahead. Yeah, my wife and I, we're dog lovers. We have a dog. Our dog is extremely protective of my wife. So, as soon as anybody starts to approach our property, it will just start barking like crazy. And because of that, we've been forced into a situation where we simply cannot let the dog go out anywhere where she might come in contact with people unless she's on a leash. So, because we don't want her biting the Amazon guy because the dog thinks that the Amazon guy is trying to steal her mom or anything like that. So, we need to come up with a solution that allows you to enjoy the dog and allow the dog to be safe, but also to allow visitors to your property like the Amazon people and your neighbors to be safe as well. So, whatever we come up with, we're going to try and come up with a solution that accomplishes that. So, you're taken care of, your dog is safe, and your neighbors and people who might be visiting your property are safe as well. Okay. So, can we get a motion now that puts it in the backyard? Okay. and puts it within the setbacks or that's my suggestion or in the front as well right yeah so that's I'm saying pull it it's got to pull it back well again I can't make motion I'm giving us some principles I think that would be because it's a big lot right well I think you know that considering and then now so considering that it's a person what the neighbor said and exactly okay so all right so do you understand what we're saying okay okay this is the moment that we've been waiting for building up we got a great crowd okay yeah okay well I'll start with the regards to the emotion I'll start with the permission request first in regards to the appeal at 3431 Devon Brook Drive for the permission of structure for a invisible dog fence I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented with some modifications which I'll also put in in my motion the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 a dash 7.6 standards because the let's see the

  31. and puts it within the setbacks or that's my suggestion or in the front as well right yeah so that's I'm saying pull it it's got to pull it back well again I can't make motion I'm giving us some principles I think that would be because it's a big lot right well I think you know that considering and then now so considering that it's a person what the neighbor said and exactly okay so all right so do you understand what we're saying okay okay this is the moment that we've been waiting for building up we got a great crowd okay yeah okay well I'll start with the regards to the emotion I'll start with the permission request first in regards to the appeal at 3431 Devon Brook Drive for the permission of structure for a invisible dog fence I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented with some modifications which I'll also put in in my motion the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 a dash 7.6 standards because the let's see the accessory structure shall not be objectionable to nearby residents because the applicant has agreed to make some modifications to put the invisible fence within the required setbacks on all sides of the property front back front rear in the sides of that and because of that it will require will actually allow for the neighbors residents anyone visiting the property to feel a little bit more safe in terms of the dimensional variances at the same property at 3431 Devon Drive if you made that motion I don't there's no setbacks okay well then that makes it really short and sweet so be with that said if approved the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within five business days because it is an existing fence and that is the motion support so I have a motion support any discussion so that essentially is with the dog fence being in

  32. compliance with section 42 a dash 7.6 standards because the let's see the accessory structure shall not be objectionable to nearby residents because the applicant has agreed to make some modifications to put the invisible fence within the required setbacks on all sides of the property front back front rear in the sides of that and because of that it will require will actually allow for the neighbors residents anyone visiting the property to feel a little bit more safe in terms of the dimensional variances at the same property at 3431 Devon Drive if you made that motion I don't there's no setbacks okay well then that makes it really short and sweet so be with that said if approved the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within five business days because it is an existing fence and that is the motion support so I have a motion support any discussion so that essentially is with the dog fence being in the backyard not encroaching upon any of the setbacks correct does everyone understand the motion yes the staff got that enforcement second for enforcement all right mr. chairman yes not part of the motion but just neighborly advice to the applicant being a fellow dog owner once again you know once you've got this fence set up you know it's probably a good time to have the training once again and make sure they've got the right setting so the dog is getting alerts early enough in the process that the dog can't get hurt and other people can't get hurt as well. We've had to do that two or three times before the dog finally got the hang of it, so. Thank you. That's a good suggestion. Okay, so I think this is all still part of the discussion of the motion, right? Yes. Okay, so now, all those in favor of the motion, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. As modified, your request is granted. So, if you have any questions about what you have to do, see the staff. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Item 6, 7318, Lindenmere.

  33. support so I have a motion support any discussion so that essentially is with the dog fence being in the backyard not encroaching upon any of the setbacks correct does everyone understand the motion yes the staff got that enforcement second for enforcement all right mr. chairman yes not part of the motion but just neighborly advice to the applicant being a fellow dog owner once again you know once you've got this fence set up you know it's probably a good time to have the training once again and make sure they've got the right setting so the dog is getting alerts early enough in the process that the dog can't get hurt and other people can't get hurt as well. We've had to do that two or three times before the dog finally got the hang of it, so. Thank you. That's a good suggestion. Okay, so I think this is all still part of the discussion of the motion, right? Yes. Okay, so now, all those in favor of the motion, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. As modified, your request is granted. So, if you have any questions about what you have to do, see the staff. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Item 6, 7318, Lindenmere. Good evening. My name is Megan LaGrue, this is my husband Rob, and we're the homeowners at 7318 Lindenmere Drive. We're here to respectfully request the Zoning Board allows a variance for our existing chickens and for permission for the existing accessory structure of a chicken coop. With enclosure on our property, we've raised these four chickens since April of 2024 from chicks, and they are our named pets who produce eggs for us. They are not meat chickens. When we purchased the chickens, we were under the impression that the recent court decision had sided with the Bloomfield Township resident and our right to have chickens, chickens in addition to the Michigan Right to Farm Act. So, we thought we were in the safe zone as far as chickens being allowed. allowed. We did not know that the Diezmann decision had been appealed until we received this letter from the township. So again, we're seeking permission for a small wood and metal chicken coop. It has an existing surrounding metal enclosure that is 13 by 10 foot by 72 in height. Basically, it's a chicken wire and metal structure that surrounds the coop. And the four chickens that are housed therein. Neither the coop nor the fence enclosure are

  34. Good evening. My name is Megan LaGrue, this is my husband Rob, and we're the homeowners at 7318 Lindenmere Drive. We're here to respectfully request the Zoning Board allows a variance for our existing chickens and for permission for the existing accessory structure of a chicken coop. With enclosure on our property, we've raised these four chickens since April of 2024 from chicks, and they are our named pets who produce eggs for us. They are not meat chickens. When we purchased the chickens, we were under the impression that the recent court decision had sided with the Bloomfield Township resident and our right to have chickens, chickens in addition to the Michigan Right to Farm Act. So, we thought we were in the safe zone as far as chickens being allowed. allowed. We did not know that the Diezmann decision had been appealed until we received this letter from the township. So again, we're seeking permission for a small wood and metal chicken coop. It has an existing surrounding metal enclosure that is 13 by 10 foot by 72 in height. Basically, it's a chicken wire and metal structure that surrounds the coop. And the four chickens that are housed therein. Neither the coop nor the fence enclosure are implemented in the ground. They're not permanently installed, and they're easily and frequently moved. To ensure no negative impact on the neighboring properties, the coop is predator-proof and built with high-quality materials which match the aesthetic of our residents. The enclosure is painted a muted green color to blend in. All items are located in the rear yard behind the home, and over 16 feet from any property lines. There is no rooster. The coop is cleaned daily to prevent odors. The feed is stored in rodent-proof containers, and the girls are generally quiet than an average dog. There is currently sufficient 12-month Evergreen screen along the entire back property line. We've put down a deposit with the landscape company to plant the rest. I believe I submitted my landscape plan a bit too late, but on the whole left side of the property line, even with the- house we'll be planting 10 pine trees again the back property line is completely evergreen now and the right-hand side between the garden fence and the property line will be arborvitaes in my application I did submit letters

  35. And the four chickens that are housed therein. Neither the coop nor the fence enclosure are implemented in the ground. They're not permanently installed, and they're easily and frequently moved. To ensure no negative impact on the neighboring properties, the coop is predator-proof and built with high-quality materials which match the aesthetic of our residents. The enclosure is painted a muted green color to blend in. All items are located in the rear yard behind the home, and over 16 feet from any property lines. There is no rooster. The coop is cleaned daily to prevent odors. The feed is stored in rodent-proof containers, and the girls are generally quiet than an average dog. There is currently sufficient 12-month Evergreen screen along the entire back property line. We've put down a deposit with the landscape company to plant the rest. I believe I submitted my landscape plan a bit too late, but on the whole left side of the property line, even with the- house we'll be planting 10 pine trees again the back property line is completely evergreen now and the right-hand side between the garden fence and the property line will be arborvitaes in my application I did submit letters of support from two directly next to us neighbors as well as support from our neighborhood association thank you for your consideration do we have any questions from the board so one of the things you said you said sometimes the chicken coop moves you move it around yeah why would you do that and where do you move it so we in the past had a playground structure so there was kind of a large landscaped oval in the middle of our yard that was not grass and the coop is moved within that circle just to give them fresh grass they really like to peck for bugs in the grass so they're never free-range in the yard they're always in that enclosure and the enclosure just moves around because we move that enclosure around planting arborvitaes right around that doesn't really make sense it would be like an oval of hedges in the middle of your yard which is why we were planting on the side property lines so how big is the enclosure so you said it's an oval

  36. and the property line will be arborvitaes in my application I did submit letters of support from two directly next to us neighbors as well as support from our neighborhood association thank you for your consideration do we have any questions from the board so one of the things you said you said sometimes the chicken coop moves you move it around yeah why would you do that and where do you move it so we in the past had a playground structure so there was kind of a large landscaped oval in the middle of our yard that was not grass and the coop is moved within that circle just to give them fresh grass they really like to peck for bugs in the grass so they're never free-range in the yard they're always in that enclosure and the enclosure just moves around because we move that enclosure around planting arborvitaes right around that doesn't really make sense it would be like an oval of hedges in the middle of your yard which is why we were planting on the side property lines so how big is the enclosure so you said it's an oval well that's just like the actual metal like so there's like a little it almost looks like a dog house in there that they go in overnight you know only like this tall and then obviously that metal structure is hard to help but it's about six feet tall at the very peak and then I forget you got so the oval we're talking about is just the bark chips there see the bark chips it's just an area we had bark chips with our old I see we always keep the chicken coop within that area obviously so it's not a barrier it's just there's no barrier okay yeah correct all right any other questions how much are you moving at any one time moving the coop yeah right it's just moving like I mean there's no it's a little more it might be like six to eight feet over to the side just so yeah well usually just we move it and then wherever we moved it from we just plant grass we just throw some seeds down and then in a few weeks the seeds sprout and then we just move it plant grass over and they're always it's all kept within that enclosure so we're never moving it anywhere like on the grassy part of our yard where like our you know visitors would walk or anything unless they're like within that kind of it's just cedar edge so this is just part of the care of the chickens yeah they like grass they dig up the dirt they dig up the grass till it's dirt and then we move it to fresh grass but all within that small bark chip

  37. well that's just like the actual metal like so there's like a little it almost looks like a dog house in there that they go in overnight you know only like this tall and then obviously that metal structure is hard to help but it's about six feet tall at the very peak and then I forget you got so the oval we're talking about is just the bark chips there see the bark chips it's just an area we had bark chips with our old I see we always keep the chicken coop within that area obviously so it's not a barrier it's just there's no barrier okay yeah correct all right any other questions how much are you moving at any one time moving the coop yeah right it's just moving like I mean there's no it's a little more it might be like six to eight feet over to the side just so yeah well usually just we move it and then wherever we moved it from we just plant grass we just throw some seeds down and then in a few weeks the seeds sprout and then we just move it plant grass over and they're always it's all kept within that enclosure so we're never moving it anywhere like on the grassy part of our yard where like our you know visitors would walk or anything unless they're like within that kind of it's just cedar edge so this is just part of the care of the chickens yeah they like grass they dig up the dirt they dig up the grass till it's dirt and then we move it to fresh grass but all within that small bark chip oval basically could you tell me a little bit more about where you're landscaping your plant is to yeah I have a paper copy so if you look at like this view so you see you can see our neighbor's house right there and there's like a little white you have a little white garden fence so there would be arbor vitae that would completely block both our view of her house and her view of the chicken coop i don't know what that is but yeah so the front is like the bottom right so there's going to be two plantings one's going to be arbor arbor vitae where you can see it's like next to the garden fence and then the other side we're just going to plant evergreen trees it'll kind of match the aesthetic of like the rest of the neighborhood so they're six foot you really shouldn't be able to see it at all um from any view i know one of our neighbors we've got some neighbors here but we've got one of the neighbors to the back we had the chickens for like two years and he didn't even know so uh the picture that you showed with the picket fence that's your garden fence and the that's on the top right side of this diagram yes yes so you're planting there and then you're also planting i'm assuming you know the opposite side as you've shown here yeah and it it appears that

  38. it's dirt and then we move it to fresh grass but all within that small bark chip oval basically could you tell me a little bit more about where you're landscaping your plant is to yeah I have a paper copy so if you look at like this view so you see you can see our neighbor's house right there and there's like a little white you have a little white garden fence so there would be arbor vitae that would completely block both our view of her house and her view of the chicken coop i don't know what that is but yeah so the front is like the bottom right so there's going to be two plantings one's going to be arbor arbor vitae where you can see it's like next to the garden fence and then the other side we're just going to plant evergreen trees it'll kind of match the aesthetic of like the rest of the neighborhood so they're six foot you really shouldn't be able to see it at all um from any view i know one of our neighbors we've got some neighbors here but we've got one of the neighbors to the back we had the chickens for like two years and he didn't even know so uh the picture that you showed with the picket fence that's your garden fence and the that's on the top right side of this diagram yes yes so you're planting there and then you're also planting i'm assuming you know the opposite side as you've shown here yeah and it it appears that you have quite a lot of screening in the back yes it's a wall of existing pine trees what what is it what is it it's just a wall of pine trees thank you so i'm just wondering in my mind so that uh we've got a permission request i guess this is an accessory structure but it's movable right but it's movable so typically we approve accessory structures for a location so they can move it so we didn't we we thought that we were in the right the court decision had allowed for the chickens and because it was not cemented in the ground we didn't think it counted as an accessory structure I believe there was another instance we had something similar I don't know if anybody else recalls that Andrew's not in your head it seems to me there's another situation very similar I suppose there would I guess if there is I guess I first of all would hear from the public hear from the neighbors and maybe that might help guide the decision like these are definitely pets for us I mean we have named them all Schitt's Creek character names and you

  39. planting i'm assuming you know the opposite side as you've shown here yeah and it it appears that you have quite a lot of screening in the back yes it's a wall of existing pine trees what what is it what is it it's just a wall of pine trees thank you so i'm just wondering in my mind so that uh we've got a permission request i guess this is an accessory structure but it's movable right but it's movable so typically we approve accessory structures for a location so they can move it so we didn't we we thought that we were in the right the court decision had allowed for the chickens and because it was not cemented in the ground we didn't think it counted as an accessory structure I believe there was another instance we had something similar I don't know if anybody else recalls that Andrew's not in your head it seems to me there's another situation very similar I suppose there would I guess if there is I guess I first of all would hear from the public hear from the neighbors and maybe that might help guide the decision like these are definitely pets for us I mean we have named them all Schitt's Creek character names and you know I know Megan really cares about you know pets are really important to us just as much as they would be the dog so we're willing to do like we already submitted a landscape plan and I'm having here for our neighbors we're willing to do other changes if we need to to make sure that everyone's comfortable with the chickens okay let's the neighborhood association and this boss has had no complaints all the neighbors are have been extremely supportive and offered to help care for the chickens when we were out of town and we've had nothing but support so far yeah we did see some of the correspondence on it thank you all right I'll open this up to the public I would like to speak on this item good evening my name is Jennifer Flieger thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank This is my husband, David. We live on the adjoining back property, 4849Q Court. And requesting a chicken coop and an enclosure. So 4849, which is right there. When the chickens were first introduced approximately two years ago, the owner invited me to see them and gave me a dozen eggs. At the time, I thought the chickens were interesting and had no reason to believe they'd create a significant impact on neighboring properties.

  40. pets for us I mean we have named them all Schitt's Creek character names and you know I know Megan really cares about you know pets are really important to us just as much as they would be the dog so we're willing to do like we already submitted a landscape plan and I'm having here for our neighbors we're willing to do other changes if we need to to make sure that everyone's comfortable with the chickens okay let's the neighborhood association and this boss has had no complaints all the neighbors are have been extremely supportive and offered to help care for the chickens when we were out of town and we've had nothing but support so far yeah we did see some of the correspondence on it thank you all right I'll open this up to the public I would like to speak on this item good evening my name is Jennifer Flieger thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank you all right thank This is my husband, David. We live on the adjoining back property, 4849Q Court. And requesting a chicken coop and an enclosure. So 4849, which is right there. When the chickens were first introduced approximately two years ago, the owner invited me to see them and gave me a dozen eggs. At the time, I thought the chickens were interesting and had no reason to believe they'd create a significant impact on neighboring properties. However, after living with them for two years, I've now firsthand, we've had firsthand experience with the effect the chickens have on our property and our ability to peacefully enjoy our home. My primary concern is the ongoing noise generated by the chickens. They vocalize throughout the day, beginning in the morning as early as six o'clock, and continue until the evening about sundown. Based on our experience over the two years, the chickens can be heard from inside our home, even when doors and windows are closed. They can also be heard in rooms located on the side of our house, furthest from the chickens in the backyard. The fact that the noise can be heard throughout the home demonstrates the impact extends beyond simply enjoying our backyard. I've brought a video recording with audio that demonstrates the nature and frequency of the noise. Would you like to hear it? So this is from my office that faces the backyard, April 20th, 1230. in the afternoon. I was working. I had the window open. Whoops. They're really loud. Trust them. Yeah, hold on. Let me see. Can we fix this?

  41. At the time, I thought the chickens were interesting and had no reason to believe they'd create a significant impact on neighboring properties. However, after living with them for two years, I've now firsthand, we've had firsthand experience with the effect the chickens have on our property and our ability to peacefully enjoy our home. My primary concern is the ongoing noise generated by the chickens. They vocalize throughout the day, beginning in the morning as early as six o'clock, and continue until the evening about sundown. Based on our experience over the two years, the chickens can be heard from inside our home, even when doors and windows are closed. They can also be heard in rooms located on the side of our house, furthest from the chickens in the backyard. The fact that the noise can be heard throughout the home demonstrates the impact extends beyond simply enjoying our backyard. I've brought a video recording with audio that demonstrates the nature and frequency of the noise. Would you like to hear it? So this is from my office that faces the backyard, April 20th, 1230. in the afternoon. I was working. I had the window open. Whoops. They're really loud. Trust them. Yeah, hold on. Let me see. Can we fix this? Oh, here we go. And that is from inside the house. This is with the window open, but that's the kind of noise we hear throughout the day. And we can't enjoy our outdoors peacefully. Here, let me stop that. I understand that the applicant is proposing to relocate the coop farther from the property line, about 20 feet from the property line. However, we respectively submit that the location of the coop is not the primary issue. The impact on neighboring properties come from the chickens themselves and the noise they generate throughout the day. As the adjacent property owner whose residence is closest to the chickens and the coop, our family experiences the most direct impact from their noise. While other neighbors may have different experiences depending on their distance from the coop, we can

  42. Whoops. They're really loud. Trust them. Yeah, hold on. Let me see. Can we fix this? Oh, here we go. And that is from inside the house. This is with the window open, but that's the kind of noise we hear throughout the day. And we can't enjoy our outdoors peacefully. Here, let me stop that. I understand that the applicant is proposing to relocate the coop farther from the property line, about 20 feet from the property line. However, we respectively submit that the location of the coop is not the primary issue. The impact on neighboring properties come from the chickens themselves and the noise they generate throughout the day. As the adjacent property owner whose residence is closest to the chickens and the coop, our family experiences the most direct impact from their noise. While other neighbors may have different experiences depending on their distance from the coop, we can speak from firsthand experience the effect on our property moving the coop from one location to another may increase setback distance but it doesn't eliminate the source of the noise we respectively asked the board to consider not only whether the proposed location satisfies dimensional requirements but also the practical effect this use has on neighboring properties after two years of living next to the chickens our experience has been that the noise generated by the chickens adversely affects our ability to enjoy our home as the neighboring residents closest to the chickens in the coop our family experiences the most direct impact from that activity i believe that impact should be carefully weighed when determining whether the use is appropriate for this location i want to emphasize this is not a personal issue with our neighbor when the chickens were first introduced we had no reason to believe they would significantly impact the property however living next to them for two years we now know that there's daily noise that impacts the pleasure we get from living at our property thank you for your time and consideration thank you very much is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item

  43. speak from firsthand experience the effect on our property moving the coop from one location to another may increase setback distance but it doesn't eliminate the source of the noise we respectively asked the board to consider not only whether the proposed location satisfies dimensional requirements but also the practical effect this use has on neighboring properties after two years of living next to the chickens our experience has been that the noise generated by the chickens adversely affects our ability to enjoy our home as the neighboring residents closest to the chickens in the coop our family experiences the most direct impact from that activity i believe that impact should be carefully weighed when determining whether the use is appropriate for this location i want to emphasize this is not a personal issue with our neighbor when the chickens were first introduced we had no reason to believe they would significantly impact the property however living next to them for two years we now know that there's daily noise that impacts the pleasure we get from living at our property thank you for your time and consideration thank you very much is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item good evening dear board members my name is jerome i live right on the west side on 7332 lindenmion drive i'm here to speak in support of my neighbors megan and rob We've been living next to this chicken coop for the past two years. We are quite close from the chicken coop, and it's never been a problem. I don't hear them from inside. Yes, when we are outside on our backyard, we can hear them. It's not an issue. It's a very small noise, and I can tell you that dogs around are much more loud and much more an issue. And there's no odor. My neighbors keep a clean and secure coop. I've never seen them wandering around. So those chickens are here for the past two years, and they were here when we bought the house. We never thought that it would be an issue, and it was confirmed that in the past two years it has never been an issue for us. So that's all. Thank you very much. What was your address, sir? 7332, so on the west side. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I'd like to make one more comment. You can't.

  44. good evening dear board members my name is jerome i live right on the west side on 7332 lindenmion drive i'm here to speak in support of my neighbors megan and rob We've been living next to this chicken coop for the past two years. We are quite close from the chicken coop, and it's never been a problem. I don't hear them from inside. Yes, when we are outside on our backyard, we can hear them. It's not an issue. It's a very small noise, and I can tell you that dogs around are much more loud and much more an issue. And there's no odor. My neighbors keep a clean and secure coop. I've never seen them wandering around. So those chickens are here for the past two years, and they were here when we bought the house. We never thought that it would be an issue, and it was confirmed that in the past two years it has never been an issue for us. So that's all. Thank you very much. What was your address, sir? 7332, so on the west side. Okay, thank you. Thank you. I'd like to make one more comment. You can't. Okay. No. Yep. You get one time at the microphone. Is there anyone else that would like to speak? All right. I'll close the public hearing. I'll let all the public can please sit. And then the applicant can respond. Sorry, I'm kind of shocked. That's news to me. They never mention to us any concern about the noise. The chickens do balk, which you heard, when they're laying an egg. It usually... is quite short and it's a shorter and quieter in sound I think than many of the neighborhood dogs barking in our neighborhood so um again that was I'm very surprised and I'm really sorry that you guys were disrupted at all I mean that's not was never our intention yeah yeah yeah I mean it definitely like so two chickens definitely are allowed when they lay eggs they lay one to zero a day so there's definitely some times in the afternoon where that like that I'm sure that was a chicken egg laying sound I mean we generally let them out of the coop a little bit after sunrise it's usually like about seven and then they're back in

  45. You can't. Okay. No. Yep. You get one time at the microphone. Is there anyone else that would like to speak? All right. I'll close the public hearing. I'll let all the public can please sit. And then the applicant can respond. Sorry, I'm kind of shocked. That's news to me. They never mention to us any concern about the noise. The chickens do balk, which you heard, when they're laying an egg. It usually... is quite short and it's a shorter and quieter in sound I think than many of the neighborhood dogs barking in our neighborhood so um again that was I'm very surprised and I'm really sorry that you guys were disrupted at all I mean that's not was never our intention yeah yeah yeah I mean it definitely like so two chickens definitely are allowed when they lay eggs they lay one to zero a day so there's definitely some times in the afternoon where that like that I'm sure that was a chicken egg laying sound I mean we generally let them out of the coop a little bit after sunrise it's usually like about seven and then they're back in the coop at dusk where they're pretty much contained so I'm more than willing to put up an extra layer of trees or something to try to mitigate the sound to our neighbors no matter what happens but I'm still hoping you consider our request how many chickens do you have again four four what's the life expectancy of the chickens like you're asking I keep them away from the hawks yeah which we do I believe it's four to five years and I would assume if you need to you're gonna replace them you give something at the end of their lifespan mm-hmm I mean we've enjoy we enjoy having them as pets again most of the neighbors have been very in favor the eggs are delicious it's a fun hobby that we can do in our our property usually you don't we wouldn't introduce new chickens to the existing we have a since we have a we don't have a big obviously a big farm so we would probably not get new chickens until you know the current ones mostly passed away because it's just different ages but you can place them right you could if we decided to yes I personally love the chicken sounds I think it's a really unique sound just as much as the squirrels

  46. little bit after sunrise it's usually like about seven and then they're back in the coop at dusk where they're pretty much contained so I'm more than willing to put up an extra layer of trees or something to try to mitigate the sound to our neighbors no matter what happens but I'm still hoping you consider our request how many chickens do you have again four four what's the life expectancy of the chickens like you're asking I keep them away from the hawks yeah which we do I believe it's four to five years and I would assume if you need to you're gonna replace them you give something at the end of their lifespan mm-hmm I mean we've enjoy we enjoy having them as pets again most of the neighbors have been very in favor the eggs are delicious it's a fun hobby that we can do in our our property usually you don't we wouldn't introduce new chickens to the existing we have a since we have a we don't have a big obviously a big farm so we would probably not get new chickens until you know the current ones mostly passed away because it's just different ages but you can place them right you could if we decided to yes I personally love the chicken sounds I think it's a really unique sound just as much as the squirrels chattering in our backyard which are louder than the chickens or the turkeys or the turkey so is there anything else you'd like to say before we begin our deliberation officer okay thank you very much all right how does everybody feel about the chickens it's hard to say that there's no injustice to any of the adjoining neighbors unfortunately I feel so unfortunate I kind of feel the same way only I didn't know they made noise every time they laid an egg I thought that was just in the movies and our cartoons but but that all afternoon or is it one hour of the day right and if it's early in the morning or late at night tour if it's daily I mean if it's all day long that's a different story but if it's one hour but then again it depends on the time of day I mean if it's even one hour but at 7 a.m. right you know what I mean so this is very difficult so you know i've been on the zoning board a long time we have a number of different people that have requested chickens and at least the ones that i voted for have been on much larger parcels so i remember there was somebody on five acres because the variance is

  47. sounds I think it's a really unique sound just as much as the squirrels chattering in our backyard which are louder than the chickens or the turkeys or the turkey so is there anything else you'd like to say before we begin our deliberation officer okay thank you very much all right how does everybody feel about the chickens it's hard to say that there's no injustice to any of the adjoining neighbors unfortunately I feel so unfortunate I kind of feel the same way only I didn't know they made noise every time they laid an egg I thought that was just in the movies and our cartoons but but that all afternoon or is it one hour of the day right and if it's early in the morning or late at night tour if it's daily I mean if it's all day long that's a different story but if it's one hour but then again it depends on the time of day I mean if it's even one hour but at 7 a.m. right you know what I mean so this is very difficult so you know i've been on the zoning board a long time we have a number of different people that have requested chickens and at least the ones that i voted for have been on much larger parcels so i remember there was somebody on five acres because the variance is a deviation from 40 acres and then there's a and now we're you know down to somebody that's 0.57 so that's a real uh difficult thing for me to uh look at and say it's okay you know for all the reasons the neighbor said and there could be somebody else that moves in that that doesn't like it so because of the the size of the lot i don't think i can vote for this and i think you know i think and there have been other instances you know where we've at least i've been consistent voting i don't know that we've always gone as a group this way but it requires a larger piece of property well because that that allows you for reports the ability to have a lot more you don't have adjacent even so close no more distance yeah they've been in more you know secluded areas of the township so and i know i mean people enjoy them you know we've had uh kids uh 4h clubs come in there's a lot of benefits of chickens there's data that people try to compare chickens with dogs but i i'm just looking at the ordinance and

  48. on much larger parcels so i remember there was somebody on five acres because the variance is a deviation from 40 acres and then there's a and now we're you know down to somebody that's 0.57 so that's a real uh difficult thing for me to uh look at and say it's okay you know for all the reasons the neighbor said and there could be somebody else that moves in that that doesn't like it so because of the the size of the lot i don't think i can vote for this and i think you know i think and there have been other instances you know where we've at least i've been consistent voting i don't know that we've always gone as a group this way but it requires a larger piece of property well because that that allows you for reports the ability to have a lot more you don't have adjacent even so close no more distance yeah they've been in more you know secluded areas of the township so and i know i mean people enjoy them you know we've had uh kids uh 4h clubs come in there's a lot of benefits of chickens there's data that people try to compare chickens with dogs but i i'm just looking at the ordinance and that's what the ordinance says and I I couldn't vote for it because of the size of the lot and historically as many other sound mitigation proposals for this type of thing not that I'm aware of that have worked I mean the best sound mitigation is the distance yeah or seclusion or maybe solid structure which you wouldn't want to do that with the chickens so yeah as I stated we're you know we're dog owners and you know this is for and she likes peace and quiet and she makes sure the dog is staying quiet and I know if we had chickens next door she'd be asking me to come down to the township whether I want to or not I'd have to come down and complain so yeah so many puns I could make I mean I love the hobby and she's gonna refer my grandma had chickens I love visiting her and seeing the chickens but I just can't imagine it in such a small space next next to neighbors with she had like a 25 acres of properties it's a tough one because chickens are very popular now yeah it's it's very difficult I realize I understand people but I mean I don't know if you guys feel differently but the

  49. that's what the ordinance says and I I couldn't vote for it because of the size of the lot and historically as many other sound mitigation proposals for this type of thing not that I'm aware of that have worked I mean the best sound mitigation is the distance yeah or seclusion or maybe solid structure which you wouldn't want to do that with the chickens so yeah as I stated we're you know we're dog owners and you know this is for and she likes peace and quiet and she makes sure the dog is staying quiet and I know if we had chickens next door she'd be asking me to come down to the township whether I want to or not I'd have to come down and complain so yeah so many puns I could make I mean I love the hobby and she's gonna refer my grandma had chickens I love visiting her and seeing the chickens but I just can't imagine it in such a small space next next to neighbors with she had like a 25 acres of properties it's a tough one because chickens are very popular now yeah it's it's very difficult I realize I understand people but I mean I don't know if you guys feel differently but the size of a lot to be and then you have some testimony from neighbor negative impact and then I'll just I'll just as a lawyer that the recording there's all sorts of problems with that as there's a piece of you know is it turned up too loud when was it taken the frequency of it so that you kind of have to set aside so it's really not based on that sound but really the size of the lot and the size of the variance we're given and then the really to me the feedback or the testimony that we got from the neighbors about it right well i agree with that because the other ones that we have approved have been on larger lots and there was also even with the recording and i understand that but there was also another neighbor who was in support of the chicken but also said that they are aware of the sound i mean they don't have a problem with it they don't object well they'd also endorse that they are making noise but again there are things that their uses that people have you know basketball courts people that generate sound so that that alone to me it's the size of it so it's a farm activity we we have a permitted size sound being one of the reasons but not determinative that we we prefer for a number of a number of reasons and um that's why i couldn't vote for it i'll presume

  50. I understand people but I mean I don't know if you guys feel differently but the size of a lot to be and then you have some testimony from neighbor negative impact and then I'll just I'll just as a lawyer that the recording there's all sorts of problems with that as there's a piece of you know is it turned up too loud when was it taken the frequency of it so that you kind of have to set aside so it's really not based on that sound but really the size of the lot and the size of the variance we're given and then the really to me the feedback or the testimony that we got from the neighbors about it right well i agree with that because the other ones that we have approved have been on larger lots and there was also even with the recording and i understand that but there was also another neighbor who was in support of the chicken but also said that they are aware of the sound i mean they don't have a problem with it they don't object well they'd also endorse that they are making noise but again there are things that their uses that people have you know basketball courts people that generate sound so that that alone to me it's the size of it so it's a farm activity we we have a permitted size sound being one of the reasons but not determinative that we we prefer for a number of a number of reasons and um that's why i couldn't vote for it i'll presume just as to the sound thing and assuming that yeah they do make that noise when they lay eggs whether it be once or to zero a day i don't know if that's any different than a dog barking and a little barking fit for a little bit well we have had people that come in and shown data on that but i'm just i'm i'm looking at the ordinance that we're asked to enforce i'm looking at the size of the variance and for that reason i couldn't vote for it you you Well, Mr. Chair, with that being said, I'd like to make a motion. Okay. Okay. So this is going to be a motion to deny the permission request. In regard to the appeal at 7318 Lindemere Drive, for the accessory structure, I move that the request be denied. Based on the information presented, the applicant did not demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards due to the size of the accessory structure is not compatible with adjoining properties based on the size of the lot. So, here, let me move over to – do we have verbiage if denied? I think if you're denied, you'll have to rely on your green sheet.

  51. we we prefer for a number of a number of reasons and um that's why i couldn't vote for it i'll presume just as to the sound thing and assuming that yeah they do make that noise when they lay eggs whether it be once or to zero a day i don't know if that's any different than a dog barking and a little barking fit for a little bit well we have had people that come in and shown data on that but i'm just i'm i'm looking at the ordinance that we're asked to enforce i'm looking at the size of the variance and for that reason i couldn't vote for it you you Well, Mr. Chair, with that being said, I'd like to make a motion. Okay. Okay. So this is going to be a motion to deny the permission request. In regard to the appeal at 7318 Lindemere Drive, for the accessory structure, I move that the request be denied. Based on the information presented, the applicant did not demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards due to the size of the accessory structure is not compatible with adjoining properties based on the size of the lot. So, here, let me move over to – do we have verbiage if denied? I think if you're denied, you'll have to rely on your green sheet. Okay, sorry. And you'd have to definitely specify all the reasons at the bottom of that green sheet. Okay, even though we're just talking about the permission request, because if we deny the permission – Well, we're talking about the dimensional variance, the 40 acres, so I think that's a better approach to the motion. Okay. Better structure. So, I move the variance be denied as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did not demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty, because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the size of the lot. There would be injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that it is not consistent with the – our other homes in the area and again is not something that is typically placed on a lot this size no unique circumstances with the property have been given and as a result this is self-created due to the fact that the size of the lot does not allow enough space for something that is typically a farming activity support motion and support discussion so i'll just say the permission request relates to the coop itself and then the dimensional variance relates to the chicken so

  52. I think if you're denied, you'll have to rely on your green sheet. Okay, sorry. And you'd have to definitely specify all the reasons at the bottom of that green sheet. Okay, even though we're just talking about the permission request, because if we deny the permission – Well, we're talking about the dimensional variance, the 40 acres, so I think that's a better approach to the motion. Okay. Better structure. So, I move the variance be denied as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did not demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty, because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the size of the lot. There would be injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that it is not consistent with the – our other homes in the area and again is not something that is typically placed on a lot this size no unique circumstances with the property have been given and as a result this is self-created due to the fact that the size of the lot does not allow enough space for something that is typically a farming activity support motion and support discussion so i'll just say the permission request relates to the coop itself and then the dimensional variance relates to the chicken so all right so all all in favor of the motion uh uh to not to deny the request say aye aye any opposed i both you're opposed okay so let's do a roll call i just want to verify i'm sorry asking the motion maker if um there's a time if there is a discussion regarding a time frame for for ordinance enforcement for removal usually there's a okay what is typical for something like this i would say 60 to 90 days okay well let's say uh 60 days from the uh approval of the minutes so that's not being 90. thank you okay roll call um so this is an emotion to deny um o'donnell yes ford yes geo grande yes henry yes osquitz osquitz okay so the motion passes four to one Ah, so I'm sorry, your request is denied. So calling next item item 7.

  53. all right so all all in favor of the motion uh uh to not to deny the request say aye aye any opposed i both you're opposed okay so let's do a roll call i just want to verify i'm sorry asking the motion maker if um there's a time if there is a discussion regarding a time frame for for ordinance enforcement for removal usually there's a okay what is typical for something like this i would say 60 to 90 days okay well let's say uh 60 days from the uh approval of the minutes so that's not being 90. thank you okay roll call um so this is an emotion to deny um o'donnell yes ford yes geo grande yes henry yes osquitz osquitz okay so the motion passes four to one Ah, so I'm sorry, your request is denied. So calling next item item 7. Good evening. My name is Shannon Moore. I'm with Zaremba & Company, landscape architect, representing homeowners John and Linda Lesway at the address of 193 Wadsworth Lane. And tonight we've got two requests before the board. One is a permission request for an outdoor masonry fireplace located in the rear outdoor living area. And the second is a dimensional variance for the proposed front entrance columns. Both requests are part of a comprehensive residential landscape and architectural improvement project that has been carefully designed to complement the existing home and preserve the character of the surrounding neighborhood. We'll start with the permission request. This is a gas fireplace. The architectural materials will match the home. A lot of the details pick up on the language of the European traditional transitional. Put the

  54. Good evening. My name is Shannon Moore. I'm with Zaremba & Company, landscape architect, representing homeowners John and Linda Lesway at the address of 193 Wadsworth Lane. And tonight we've got two requests before the board. One is a permission request for an outdoor masonry fireplace located in the rear outdoor living area. And the second is a dimensional variance for the proposed front entrance columns. Both requests are part of a comprehensive residential landscape and architectural improvement project that has been carefully designed to complement the existing home and preserve the character of the surrounding neighborhood. We'll start with the permission request. This is a gas fireplace. The architectural materials will match the home. A lot of the details pick up on the language of the European traditional transitional. Put the architecture we do end it with a column that's similar to the other details that are on wing walls of the house traditional brick materials the limestone detailing the caps also are consistent with other architectural features on the house we are planning to do significant screening we are at the 14 foot high for the maximum height of the structure itself within the ordinance it is located 16 feet from the property line and then the wing wall or garden wall connects to the corner of the home that's a three-foot garden wall and then the column at the end is is four feet and so it's that that's our permission request request for that item and then our second item are we have two little architectural columns that in the ordinance you need to stay there's a request to stay within 10 feet and based on the existing porch architecture we're

  55. architecture we do end it with a column that's similar to the other details that are on wing walls of the house traditional brick materials the limestone detailing the caps also are consistent with other architectural features on the house we are planning to do significant screening we are at the 14 foot high for the maximum height of the structure itself within the ordinance it is located 16 feet from the property line and then the wing wall or garden wall connects to the corner of the home that's a three-foot garden wall and then the column at the end is is four feet and so it's that that's our permission request request for that item and then our second item are we have two little architectural columns that in the ordinance you need to stay there's a request to stay within 10 feet and based on the existing porch architecture we're trying to line up those entry columns with the porch architectural columns so that it creates this garden court it's proportionate and to scale we're gonna add containers or flowers on top so it's in our architectural element as you enter into the home. I don't see that. Thank you very much. Any questions from the board? I noticed in the pictures that the screening didn't go to the top of the fire column. Is that how it's going to look? Or you're anticipating that the coverage is not going to go to the top of the fireplace? Our goal, so there's an existing hedge in the backyard that we're trying to reuse. And it's about 10, they're about 10 feet tall. If we need to swap those out in the middle section to meet that full height, we have no problem doing that as well. I mean, is it a safety issue or anything like that to do with, okay, thank you. Is the wall that's attached to that three feet or four feet? It's a three-foot wall, but then the column at the end is four feet.

  56. request to stay within 10 feet and based on the existing porch architecture we're trying to line up those entry columns with the porch architectural columns so that it creates this garden court it's proportionate and to scale we're gonna add containers or flowers on top so it's in our architectural element as you enter into the home. I don't see that. Thank you very much. Any questions from the board? I noticed in the pictures that the screening didn't go to the top of the fire column. Is that how it's going to look? Or you're anticipating that the coverage is not going to go to the top of the fireplace? Our goal, so there's an existing hedge in the backyard that we're trying to reuse. And it's about 10, they're about 10 feet tall. If we need to swap those out in the middle section to meet that full height, we have no problem doing that as well. I mean, is it a safety issue or anything like that to do with, okay, thank you. Is the wall that's attached to that three feet or four feet? It's a three-foot wall, but then the column at the end is four feet. What was the safety issue associated with lowering the height? The safety issue? Of the chimney. Because did I hear that there was a safety issue with the fact that it had to be 14 feet? I mean, since you've already got a hedge that does the trick, is there any reason why you couldn't just lower the height so you've got it covered and you don't have to worry about that? Well, we were trying to match some- Well, we were trying to match some- of the existing kind of language of the architecture if you look at the house there's a subtle swoop on the wing walls of the home and so architecturally and proportionally we were working within that 14 feet but we'd be happy to extend the height of the hedge to screen that as as needed because our screening says that okay so the height of the screening has to be at the height of the structure at the time of planting so if that's something that you can do we can do that okay any other questions of the applicant I'll open this to the public you would like to comment on this

  57. It's a three-foot wall, but then the column at the end is four feet. What was the safety issue associated with lowering the height? The safety issue? Of the chimney. Because did I hear that there was a safety issue with the fact that it had to be 14 feet? I mean, since you've already got a hedge that does the trick, is there any reason why you couldn't just lower the height so you've got it covered and you don't have to worry about that? Well, we were trying to match some- Well, we were trying to match some- of the existing kind of language of the architecture if you look at the house there's a subtle swoop on the wing walls of the home and so architecturally and proportionally we were working within that 14 feet but we'd be happy to extend the height of the hedge to screen that as as needed because our screening says that okay so the height of the screening has to be at the height of the structure at the time of planting so if that's something that you can do we can do that okay any other questions of the applicant I'll open this to the public you would like to comment on this good evening I'm Chuck Sally I live at 376 Westbourne I'm also the chair of the homeowners association for Westbourne Westchester village we didn't get plans ahead of this meeting but I'm making an observation a couple of observations here that would be hopefully useful in the discussion about variances number one if you look at that plan there's an awful lot of structure concrete patio whatever that that we believe contributes to lot coverage even though the current dimensions in the township don't have that same view working this particular piece of property has had an experience of water short shifting to adjacent properties just be just based on the way

  58. good evening I'm Chuck Sally I live at 376 Westbourne I'm also the chair of the homeowners association for Westbourne Westchester village we didn't get plans ahead of this meeting but I'm making an observation a couple of observations here that would be hopefully useful in the discussion about variances number one if you look at that plan there's an awful lot of structure concrete patio whatever that that we believe contributes to lot coverage even though the current dimensions in the township don't have that same view working this particular piece of property has had an experience of water short shifting to adjacent properties just be just based on the way has been graded in the past and the way it the way it sits so there's some water issues that are not addressed in this particular request for a variance but should be addressed in the building permit if that's the right process I guess I'm sort of asking a question is that the right process or is that is that something we should raise before this book zoning board I mean whether whether the township engineers have addressed water runoff and drainage well whether whether that will be adequately addressed by the review and the building permit process it is that's part of the well I just want to comment because the photograph that I'm looking at if you can go to the photo Tom of the request I'm just speaking to the request right now on the photograph yeah sorry it appears there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there you go, on the bottom right, it appears, and this may be an answer for a question on behalf of the applicant, it looks like it's being located on the patio, within the patio. So if there's any history of drainage or concerns with this property, that would be something

  59. of water short shifting to adjacent properties just be just based on the way has been graded in the past and the way it the way it sits so there's some water issues that are not addressed in this particular request for a variance but should be addressed in the building permit if that's the right process I guess I'm sort of asking a question is that the right process or is that is that something we should raise before this book zoning board I mean whether whether the township engineers have addressed water runoff and drainage well whether whether that will be adequately addressed by the review and the building permit process it is that's part of the well I just want to comment because the photograph that I'm looking at if you can go to the photo Tom of the request I'm just speaking to the request right now on the photograph yeah sorry it appears there's there's there's there's there's there's there's there you go, on the bottom right, it appears, and this may be an answer for a question on behalf of the applicant, it looks like it's being located on the patio, within the patio. So if there's any history of drainage or concerns with this property, that would be something that we could look into in our department. However, I'm not sure that this particular request would be reviewed for any sort of drainage concerns based on the proposal. MR. Yeah, and so my answer more correctly would have said at the time all that patio and everything was put in, there would have been a drainage plan that was required. This is just a replacement of an existing fireplace that's there. So it's not adding to the . MR. So that picture, the picture depicts the way it's going to be built or the way it exists now? MR. That's the way it exists now. MR. That's the way it exists now. But it's showing the fireplace location. So because I was confused with this this morning. But see the fireplace that's there? It's going to be replaced by this fireplace that has the taller So they're building a bigger fireplace to replace a smaller fireplace. Is that what's happening? MR. Yes. And so your question is, before the board, is 14 feet the right height for that new fireplace? Is that the thing that's before the board? MS. Well, that is one of the things that we would consider, the height of it.

  60. with this property, that would be something that we could look into in our department. However, I'm not sure that this particular request would be reviewed for any sort of drainage concerns based on the proposal. MR. Yeah, and so my answer more correctly would have said at the time all that patio and everything was put in, there would have been a drainage plan that was required. This is just a replacement of an existing fireplace that's there. So it's not adding to the . MR. So that picture, the picture depicts the way it's going to be built or the way it exists now? MR. That's the way it exists now. MR. That's the way it exists now. But it's showing the fireplace location. So because I was confused with this this morning. But see the fireplace that's there? It's going to be replaced by this fireplace that has the taller So they're building a bigger fireplace to replace a smaller fireplace. Is that what's happening? MR. Yes. And so your question is, before the board, is 14 feet the right height for that new fireplace? Is that the thing that's before the board? MS. Well, that is one of the things that we would consider, the height of it. Yes. So my question, along with what the board asked earlier, is there any need for that to be 14 feet high and 5 feet above the existing screening, or do we have to replace all the screening with much taller screening than currently exists? Well, the height fits in the ordinance, but what you're saying is from the screening perspective, correct? Right. So is your request or your feedback is that you'd like it to be completely screened? Well, my request is that you deny the request because I think it's a frivolous request for a 14-foot high fireplace. But that's not my, you're the ones who have to resolve that. My concern is the next stage, the water issue that has been experienced on that property. And there's way too much stuff in that, on that lot that is imperiously. So we, we're not addressing what's on the lot? No, I, I, I, you answered my question. You're right. You can certainly reach out to our department, the planning, building, the ordinance department, and we'd be happy to sit down and go over the plan with you.

  61. Yes. So my question, along with what the board asked earlier, is there any need for that to be 14 feet high and 5 feet above the existing screening, or do we have to replace all the screening with much taller screening than currently exists? Well, the height fits in the ordinance, but what you're saying is from the screening perspective, correct? Right. So is your request or your feedback is that you'd like it to be completely screened? Well, my request is that you deny the request because I think it's a frivolous request for a 14-foot high fireplace. But that's not my, you're the ones who have to resolve that. My concern is the next stage, the water issue that has been experienced on that property. And there's way too much stuff in that, on that lot that is imperiously. So we, we're not addressing what's on the lot? No, I, I, I, you answered my question. You're right. You can certainly reach out to our department, the planning, building, the ordinance department, and we'd be happy to sit down and go over the plan with you. My request is to make, to do a double secure review of the site plan to make sure that this is not going to contribute to the water runoff that's been experienced in the past. Okay. That's the only... Fair enough. That's the only... Let me... Let me... legitimate request other than to challenge the need for a 14-foot high which I hope you guys will take into consideration. Thank you for your feedback. Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak on this? My name is Mike Smith. I live at 3571 Berkshire Drive and I am a member of the Architectural Control Committee as well. Now, this is not the first time we have dealt with this family. So they can't say they don't know that there is an Architectural Control Committee or Homeowners Association because we have had a situation with them in the past.

  62. and we'd be happy to sit down and go over the plan with you. My request is to make, to do a double secure review of the site plan to make sure that this is not going to contribute to the water runoff that's been experienced in the past. Okay. That's the only... Fair enough. That's the only... Let me... Let me... legitimate request other than to challenge the need for a 14-foot high which I hope you guys will take into consideration. Thank you for your feedback. Thank you. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak on this? My name is Mike Smith. I live at 3571 Berkshire Drive and I am a member of the Architectural Control Committee as well. Now, this is not the first time we have dealt with this family. So they can't say they don't know that there is an Architectural Control Committee or Homeowners Association because we have had a situation with them in the past. And that was at the time the house was being built. And it had to do with the height of the house that's not coinciding with our criteria of the Homeowners Association. Now, for this project, they have not submitted any application, asked any questions. Thank you. orange. or even let us know they were planning on doing this so again they're sort of running afoul of the homeowners association even though at one point in time mrs lesway wanted to be on the homeowners association i can't understand the rationale of why this chimney needs to be 14 feet tall that seems to be excessive unless they can provide a good explanation as to why but they have chosen i guess not to let the homeowners association know and the members of

  63. And that was at the time the house was being built. And it had to do with the height of the house that's not coinciding with our criteria of the Homeowners Association. Now, for this project, they have not submitted any application, asked any questions. Thank you. orange. or even let us know they were planning on doing this so again they're sort of running afoul of the homeowners association even though at one point in time mrs lesway wanted to be on the homeowners association i can't understand the rationale of why this chimney needs to be 14 feet tall that seems to be excessive unless they can provide a good explanation as to why but they have chosen i guess not to let the homeowners association know and the members of their community know that they are planning on doing this so i would ask that the committee here give this due consideration based upon the fact that these homeowners have not made any attempt to go through the proper channels of the homeowners association of which they are well aware of and have dealt with previously thank you thank you anyone else would like to speak on this item so i'll close the public hearing let the applicant respond so in in response as you can see um it's an existing patio we weren't involved with the existing patio or the existing structure um and so we were under the impression it was like

  64. but they have chosen i guess not to let the homeowners association know and the members of their community know that they are planning on doing this so i would ask that the committee here give this due consideration based upon the fact that these homeowners have not made any attempt to go through the proper channels of the homeowners association of which they are well aware of and have dealt with previously thank you thank you anyone else would like to speak on this item so i'll close the public hearing let the applicant respond so in in response as you can see um it's an existing patio we weren't involved with the existing patio or the existing structure um and so we were under the impression it was like more of like a remove and replace type of application and so happy to submit plans to the hoa as as well and i believe the homeowner was planning to do that as as well um but wanted to get the two little columns in the front approved and and then the reconstruction of the fireplace as part of this as as well so happy to work with the neighbors no no problem um and happy to go through the engineering process we're working with fenn engineering we are aware that um there are some grading um concerns that we fully intend to uh remedy as part of the project so um happy to to have those plans reviewed by the engineering department that's kind of our next step our first step was to um go in front of the board to to make sure we were all on the same page um essentially we we worked within the ordinance and then designed the proportions based on a lot of architectural design so um it's in keeping with the house and

  65. existing patio or the existing structure um and so we were under the impression it was like more of like a remove and replace type of application and so happy to submit plans to the hoa as as well and i believe the homeowner was planning to do that as as well um but wanted to get the two little columns in the front approved and and then the reconstruction of the fireplace as part of this as as well so happy to work with the neighbors no no problem um and happy to go through the engineering process we're working with fenn engineering we are aware that um there are some grading um concerns that we fully intend to uh remedy as part of the project so um happy to to have those plans reviewed by the engineering department that's kind of our next step our first step was to um go in front of the board to to make sure we were all on the same page um essentially we we worked within the ordinance and then designed the proportions based on a lot of architectural design so um it's in keeping with the house and structure um we can certainly uh lower that by a couple feet and still have the proportions i think work very nicely and then we would also um we're we're planning to reuse the existing hedge just because if you look at the pictures it's it's pretty nice and we think we'd be able to transplant it fairly successfully but um noticing that that's the concern and recalling that yep we need to be to the height that's no problem we can get 14 foot plant material on day one that's not a problem so you said you'd do either or you'd lower the chimney or we can we can do both right we'll do the evergreen screening to the top of the top portion of the the fireplace we we like the proportions and the design i think we can maintain the aesthetic by lowering it up to two feet how's everybody feel about that that's seems reasonable fine art of compromising okay so let's have

  66. the proportions based on a lot of architectural design so um it's in keeping with the house and structure um we can certainly uh lower that by a couple feet and still have the proportions i think work very nicely and then we would also um we're we're planning to reuse the existing hedge just because if you look at the pictures it's it's pretty nice and we think we'd be able to transplant it fairly successfully but um noticing that that's the concern and recalling that yep we need to be to the height that's no problem we can get 14 foot plant material on day one that's not a problem so you said you'd do either or you'd lower the chimney or we can we can do both right we'll do the evergreen screening to the top of the top portion of the the fireplace we we like the proportions and the design i think we can maintain the aesthetic by lowering it up to two feet how's everybody feel about that that's seems reasonable fine art of compromising okay so let's have motion. Mr. Chair, I'll attempt to make a motion. Please do. Okay. In regard to the appeal at 193 Wadsworth Lane for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-76 because the location of the accessory structure will not hinder or discourage the use of the property due to it being screened. The accessory structure shall be harmonious to the neighborhood given that there exists one now and it's just a removal and replace and based upon the compromise made by the applicant, I think it will be the size of the accessory structure is compatible with the adjoining. I think you need to put in the motion the height. I'm sorry, the height. As amended, the height being, as applied 414, I believe the applicant agreed two feet so the maximum height of the chimney will be 12 feet, correct? And it will be screened completely by Evergreens. If this motion is approved, the application for all necessary permits and must be made within one year

  67. motion. Mr. Chair, I'll attempt to make a motion. Please do. Okay. In regard to the appeal at 193 Wadsworth Lane for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-76 because the location of the accessory structure will not hinder or discourage the use of the property due to it being screened. The accessory structure shall be harmonious to the neighborhood given that there exists one now and it's just a removal and replace and based upon the compromise made by the applicant, I think it will be the size of the accessory structure is compatible with the adjoining. I think you need to put in the motion the height. I'm sorry, the height. As amended, the height being, as applied 414, I believe the applicant agreed two feet so the maximum height of the chimney will be 12 feet, correct? And it will be screened completely by Evergreens. If this motion is approved, the application for all necessary permits and must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And as we mentioned, additional Evergreens or modified Evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fireplace from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting. think again that being a 12 feet support so i motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is modified as granted calling item 8802 shady hollow lynn cavanaugh with four seasons garden center custom landscape services representing rochelle yang and andre ikub at 802 shady hollow circle and what is the request well the request is is to replace an existing timber wall that is holding up the back side of their drive so from the front of the house you can't even see it it's that great

  68. approved, the application for all necessary permits and must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And as we mentioned, additional Evergreens or modified Evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fireplace from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting. think again that being a 12 feet support so i motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is modified as granted calling item 8802 shady hollow lynn cavanaugh with four seasons garden center custom landscape services representing rochelle yang and andre ikub at 802 shady hollow circle and what is the request well the request is is to replace an existing timber wall that is holding up the back side of their drive so from the front of the house you can't even see it it's that great but the back of the house um you can see it and do you have pictures of what the existing i submitted so that's the it right there the view to the south if you see that old timber um wall that is failing and it has steps and is failing um the area is very heavily wooded and on there view to the south there's like a wing wall of timbers that goes all the way out so that part is also screened from the neighbors we'll be taking that down a little bit trying to make it a more gentler slope their insurance company requested them to do something about well so this is the most minimal footprint we could use the yard the area is very restrictive the flat area VR you can see how it's starting to slope so by doing these two tiered walls was the most

  69. so from the front of the house you can't even see it it's that great but the back of the house um you can see it and do you have pictures of what the existing i submitted so that's the it right there the view to the south if you see that old timber um wall that is failing and it has steps and is failing um the area is very heavily wooded and on there view to the south there's like a wing wall of timbers that goes all the way out so that part is also screened from the neighbors we'll be taking that down a little bit trying to make it a more gentler slope their insurance company requested them to do something about well so this is the most minimal footprint we could use the yard the area is very restrictive the flat area VR you can see how it's starting to slope so by doing these two tiered walls was the most secure way that we could do it sound way we could do it but yet make the least amount of impact what material are you planning to use it's um a brick paver interlocking bricks will it change any of the drainage no thank you are you planning on with this rendering are you planning on putting some kind of screening or ornamental on top of it or well the the homeowners are planning to do plantings on top of it like I said from the street view if you look at the picture from the street view looking up their dry Their drive is off to the side there. Those arborvitaes are on the side, so you can't even see the wall. It's below the drive. And the back area is all wooded. Yeah, so it's supporting that slope away. It is. It's supporting the end of the drive. Under the driveway, yeah. Okay. I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment?

  70. how it's starting to slope so by doing these two tiered walls was the most secure way that we could do it sound way we could do it but yet make the least amount of impact what material are you planning to use it's um a brick paver interlocking bricks will it change any of the drainage no thank you are you planning on with this rendering are you planning on putting some kind of screening or ornamental on top of it or well the the homeowners are planning to do plantings on top of it like I said from the street view if you look at the picture from the street view looking up their dry Their drive is off to the side there. Those arborvitaes are on the side, so you can't even see the wall. It's below the drive. And the back area is all wooded. Yeah, so it's supporting that slope away. It is. It's supporting the end of the drive. Under the driveway, yeah. Okay. I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment? Good evening. My name is Amy Garrett. I'm here on behalf of the HOA of Nantucket Green, and we are – we're in favor of the retaining wall modifications, no issue with that at all. But if you'll see the accessory structure, which was constructed, we believe, in 2022, it is now in disrepair. We've – as a board, we've gotten a lot of complaints about this property, about the accessory structure, as well as a few years ago, they – excuse me – look to use some cinder blocks for landscaping in the front yard. So we talked with the homeowners and came to an agreement about the materials used. So we're just making sure things are – the rules are – ordinances are followed, and maybe the accessory structure is addressed. The yard is generally in disrepair. I'm just going to stay in this building and bokadas. I'll be there for you guys. Thank you. it needs some help but but the only thing we're deciding is the retaining wall so you're pointing to something else in the picture there they said that metal structure that's in the yeah and it's all part of the slope you know we're not deciding about that tonight the only thing we're reciting

  71. Good evening. My name is Amy Garrett. I'm here on behalf of the HOA of Nantucket Green, and we are – we're in favor of the retaining wall modifications, no issue with that at all. But if you'll see the accessory structure, which was constructed, we believe, in 2022, it is now in disrepair. We've – as a board, we've gotten a lot of complaints about this property, about the accessory structure, as well as a few years ago, they – excuse me – look to use some cinder blocks for landscaping in the front yard. So we talked with the homeowners and came to an agreement about the materials used. So we're just making sure things are – the rules are – ordinances are followed, and maybe the accessory structure is addressed. The yard is generally in disrepair. I'm just going to stay in this building and bokadas. I'll be there for you guys. Thank you. it needs some help but but the only thing we're deciding is the retaining wall so you're pointing to something else in the picture there they said that metal structure that's in the yeah and it's all part of the slope you know we're not deciding about that tonight the only thing we're reciting is the retaining wall but the ordinance department can respond to your concerns is well we'll be in touch I'm sorry we're here the whole time to find that out the neighborhood is begging me to do something about it our power that is supposed to be removed before we start the project the whole area is going to be cleaned up and resodded so with the front landscape but on the other side where there's cinder blocks those are being removed and the grade is free and talk taken down so they can get a lawnmower there so normally we don't have conversations between people but here's gonna say after we vote maybe the two of you could talk and give her some okay is there anyone else that would like to comment on this so I'll close public hearing why don't we have a in just a comment that the board could make it as part of their motion that that structure is removed as stated and that would be something that could also be a response to a joy is concerned I don't know enough about what it is or why it's there but oh it's a greenhouse okay

  72. all part of the slope you know we're not deciding about that tonight the only thing we're reciting is the retaining wall but the ordinance department can respond to your concerns is well we'll be in touch I'm sorry we're here the whole time to find that out the neighborhood is begging me to do something about it our power that is supposed to be removed before we start the project the whole area is going to be cleaned up and resodded so with the front landscape but on the other side where there's cinder blocks those are being removed and the grade is free and talk taken down so they can get a lawnmower there so normally we don't have conversations between people but here's gonna say after we vote maybe the two of you could talk and give her some okay is there anyone else that would like to comment on this so I'll close public hearing why don't we have a in just a comment that the board could make it as part of their motion that that structure is removed as stated and that would be something that could also be a response to a joy is concerned I don't know enough about what it is or why it's there but oh it's a greenhouse okay Well, I don't know if I would put that in my motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. So, yeah, so you're saying it's an accessory structure that we don't have a variance for? I guess I'd rather not deal with it because I don't know enough about it. Understood. So include it or? I wouldn't include it. I don't feel comfortable including this. I don't know about it, but it sounds like it's coming down anyway. It's coming down before we show up. So we can dodge the whole thing. And you have some news to share. We want to dodge it. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Yeah. So with regard to the appeal at? 8-0-2 Shady Hollow Circle for the dimensional variance requested for a 6-foot-high retaining wall and two retaining walls currently 3 feet 3 inches apart. I move that this variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the severe topography of the lot. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the fact that this is essentially a very good replacement that's well needed. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given, once again, that there is a severe sloping topography. And as a result, this is not self-created. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year.

  73. Well, I don't know if I would put that in my motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. So, yeah, so you're saying it's an accessory structure that we don't have a variance for? I guess I'd rather not deal with it because I don't know enough about it. Understood. So include it or? I wouldn't include it. I don't feel comfortable including this. I don't know about it, but it sounds like it's coming down anyway. It's coming down before we show up. So we can dodge the whole thing. And you have some news to share. We want to dodge it. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Yeah. So with regard to the appeal at? 8-0-2 Shady Hollow Circle for the dimensional variance requested for a 6-foot-high retaining wall and two retaining walls currently 3 feet 3 inches apart. I move that this variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the severe topography of the lot. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the fact that this is essentially a very good replacement that's well needed. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given, once again, that there is a severe sloping topography. And as a result, this is not self-created. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year. And all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen all retaining walls from public view and must meet or... see the height of the walls at the time of planting. Yet I do understand this is in the backyard and it sounds as though it is not in view of anybody else. And it does appear that they do have some sort of intention to plant something back there. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. The request is granted. Calling item nine. Good evening. I'm Mark Weisberg. This is Carolyn Preger, my wife. We live at 377 Kendry. We are on the corner of Square Lake, Kendry, and Kendry. It's almost like being in commerce where you're at commerce, commerce, and commerce. We requested, well, first of all, when I went to get a permit to erect a fence along the

  74. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year. And all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen all retaining walls from public view and must meet or... see the height of the walls at the time of planting. Yet I do understand this is in the backyard and it sounds as though it is not in view of anybody else. And it does appear that they do have some sort of intention to plant something back there. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. The request is granted. Calling item nine. Good evening. I'm Mark Weisberg. This is Carolyn Preger, my wife. We live at 377 Kendry. We are on the corner of Square Lake, Kendry, and Kendry. It's almost like being in commerce where you're at commerce, commerce, and commerce. We requested, well, first of all, when I went to get a permit to erect a fence along the Square Lake side from what we were understanding as the back of our property to in line with the house, we were told that a four foot fence just needed a permit. Except when I went to get the permit, they said, no, we're sorry, this is your front yard. And I was explaining that we have three front yards. We have our front yard on Square Lake. We have our front yard where our door faces. And then we have our front yard that faces north on the other country. So. So with our application, we decided, well, we'll just ask for a six-foot fence instead of just the four-foot fence that normally would be okay in the permit. So we're asking for a six-foot fence to be erected. It's approximately 24 foot from Square Lake Road, so it is up the hill and away from Square Lake itself. Then I did some reconnaissance, if you will. There are several houses along Square Lake that all have the six-foot fence, two houses that are just like ours that are on the corner of Square Lake and other streets that have the six-foot fence, but they are only two feet from the white rail fence that's along Square Lake.

  75. We requested, well, first of all, when I went to get a permit to erect a fence along the Square Lake side from what we were understanding as the back of our property to in line with the house, we were told that a four foot fence just needed a permit. Except when I went to get the permit, they said, no, we're sorry, this is your front yard. And I was explaining that we have three front yards. We have our front yard on Square Lake. We have our front yard where our door faces. And then we have our front yard that faces north on the other country. So. So with our application, we decided, well, we'll just ask for a six-foot fence instead of just the four-foot fence that normally would be okay in the permit. So we're asking for a six-foot fence to be erected. It's approximately 24 foot from Square Lake Road, so it is up the hill and away from Square Lake itself. Then I did some reconnaissance, if you will. There are several houses along Square Lake that all have the six-foot fence, two houses that are just like ours that are on the corner of Square Lake and other streets that have the six-foot fence, but they are only two feet from the white rail fence that's along Square Lake. This is the fence that we're requesting to put up. It's just your basic dog-eared fence. It'll run from the back of the property line to in line with the house, just as our existing fence is on our north side of our house. This is a picture of a house directly across Square Lake from us, and you can see there's not only just the white rail fence, but also the cyclone fence and a wooden fence. That's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. All right. and there's also yeah there's also one additional picture that I didn't see as part of that but I'm going to show you need be or if you'd like it's a can't remember which street this is it's one street over from that also has a there's is a shadow box fence near where the fences are opposite or the rails are opposite of each other and then this one here is

  76. There are several houses along Square Lake that all have the six-foot fence, two houses that are just like ours that are on the corner of Square Lake and other streets that have the six-foot fence, but they are only two feet from the white rail fence that's along Square Lake. This is the fence that we're requesting to put up. It's just your basic dog-eared fence. It'll run from the back of the property line to in line with the house, just as our existing fence is on our north side of our house. This is a picture of a house directly across Square Lake from us, and you can see there's not only just the white rail fence, but also the cyclone fence and a wooden fence. That's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. That's my favorite one. All right. and there's also yeah there's also one additional picture that I didn't see as part of that but I'm going to show you need be or if you'd like it's a can't remember which street this is it's one street over from that also has a there's is a shadow box fence near where the fences are opposite or the rails are opposite of each other and then this one here is about a foot and a half off of the rail on Square Lake Road I think I can guess why you would want a six-foot fence on that side but I would love to hear your explanation of what I'm sorry I said I could probably anticipate why you would want a six-foot fence on this way like I but I was just curious to know what your rationale was so this is a picture that's directly across the street that faces our house you can't see them but there are two small pieces of fencing that I did put up they're just in the ground so you wouldn't be able to see the fence from Square Lake Road so that's our house our houses yeah okay sure is taken uh from the south side or sorry yeah south side of square lake facing north and our house is behind all of that foliage there so the sixth okay so what what's the

  77. opposite or the rails are opposite of each other and then this one here is about a foot and a half off of the rail on Square Lake Road I think I can guess why you would want a six-foot fence on that side but I would love to hear your explanation of what I'm sorry I said I could probably anticipate why you would want a six-foot fence on this way like I but I was just curious to know what your rationale was so this is a picture that's directly across the street that faces our house you can't see them but there are two small pieces of fencing that I did put up they're just in the ground so you wouldn't be able to see the fence from Square Lake Road so that's our house our houses yeah okay sure is taken uh from the south side or sorry yeah south side of square lake facing north and our house is behind all of that foliage there so the sixth okay so what what's the was it does it's just correct it will not connect anything it doesn't it's just the other item that we were told is that because we have a dog that this is considered to be a dog enclosure but my statement was well we're not running the fence to keep a dog in so i'm not sure how it could become an enclosure for a dog but the the fence that we're looking for what we did was we cleaned up all of that area that is to the south part of our house for usable living space so is this expert fence for privacy for sound barriers for all the above keep going you're doing great right just you want to would you come over here on the side so because you're now using your yard differently you want so is there's a safety path there where people walking no on our side there is not okay and and are you saying that you're you're from that picture you can't see the fence 12 months out of the year it's black well well maybe in the winter i would say probably

  78. so what what's the was it does it's just correct it will not connect anything it doesn't it's just the other item that we were told is that because we have a dog that this is considered to be a dog enclosure but my statement was well we're not running the fence to keep a dog in so i'm not sure how it could become an enclosure for a dog but the the fence that we're looking for what we did was we cleaned up all of that area that is to the south part of our house for usable living space so is this expert fence for privacy for sound barriers for all the above keep going you're doing great right just you want to would you come over here on the side so because you're now using your yard differently you want so is there's a safety path there where people walking no on our side there is not okay and and are you saying that you're you're from that picture you can't see the fence 12 months out of the year it's black well well maybe in the winter i would say probably ten nine or ten months of the year no now you if you were driving down Square Lake Road because of the height of the property line you would have a very difficult time unless you're in a semi truck to be able to see that fence because of the elevation because of the elevation we're approximately ten feet from well actually might be more than that but and it's at least ten feet from Square Lake Road grade level up because typically you know if you want screening your privacy I'm just saying majority of time want sort of vegetation as opposed to fence you've already got stuff there which I guess is inadequate or you can't plant more so we sort of just have this you know unconnected piece of fence where people have asked for you know screening walls or different things and we try and you know soften that or see if there's another way to achieve that objective and you know Square Lake that's a whole other challenge for you because that's certainly not a typical you know neighborhood street that's pretty busy growth so almost everybody seems to have two fences or three when we drive well

  79. ten nine or ten months of the year no now you if you were driving down Square Lake Road because of the height of the property line you would have a very difficult time unless you're in a semi truck to be able to see that fence because of the elevation because of the elevation we're approximately ten feet from well actually might be more than that but and it's at least ten feet from Square Lake Road grade level up because typically you know if you want screening your privacy I'm just saying majority of time want sort of vegetation as opposed to fence you've already got stuff there which I guess is inadequate or you can't plant more so we sort of just have this you know unconnected piece of fence where people have asked for you know screening walls or different things and we try and you know soften that or see if there's another way to achieve that objective and you know Square Lake that's a whole other challenge for you because that's certainly not a typical you know neighborhood street that's pretty busy growth so almost everybody seems to have two fences or three when we drive well the pictures I can't speak to that it does seem like there's a lot of fences in the chain link and you got a the white that white split rail fences where is that in a right-of-way is that that belongs to bloomfield township yes so that's in the right-of-way so that's not right yeah we're yeah we're further we're above that yeah and so you would be able to see this fence from these a couple months out of the year at least when it's winter is there an opportunity to screen it at all the it would be very difficult because of the grade because there's not a level spot that you could actually probably put some kind of planting in unless you were higher up and you did show a rendering of what the fence you were looking to put there is it's going to is it a white fence or is this it's a treated it's a treated fence it's just a wood fence treated would do any of the other houses that have this type of fence or a fence on square like have any screen no I showed you the one the pictures that there was no screening

  80. growth so almost everybody seems to have two fences or three when we drive well the pictures I can't speak to that it does seem like there's a lot of fences in the chain link and you got a the white that white split rail fences where is that in a right-of-way is that that belongs to bloomfield township yes so that's in the right-of-way so that's not right yeah we're yeah we're further we're above that yeah and so you would be able to see this fence from these a couple months out of the year at least when it's winter is there an opportunity to screen it at all the it would be very difficult because of the grade because there's not a level spot that you could actually probably put some kind of planting in unless you were higher up and you did show a rendering of what the fence you were looking to put there is it's going to is it a white fence or is this it's a treated it's a treated fence it's just a wood fence treated would do any of the other houses that have this type of fence or a fence on square like have any screen no I showed you the one the pictures that there was no screening on the one that's on the corner of Emerson in Square Lake that one has zero screening along it and the one across the street as you can see on that one you had the white rail fence along Square Lake then you had a cyclone fence and then the wood fence behind that I mean beyond what you showed us in the pictures are you aware of any fences with any screening on Square Lake oh no I'm not that mostly it's overgrown brush if you will and a lot of the houses that are along there as a matter of fact I think the name of the company O'Brien was just down Square Lake Road cleaning up the overgrown brush all the way down on both sides I go through this area often and I don't recall seeing much screaming on fences do you turn around in our in our driveway that's not me but I have seen a lot of broken white fences that are in the right away so it is can you show it is there a sort of a top view that shows the location of the fence in relation to the existing trees there's something that shows them if you go back to the plan the actual that one right there right along I thought we had something showed yeah so this is Square Lake right here

  81. have any screen no I showed you the one the pictures that there was no screening on the one that's on the corner of Emerson in Square Lake that one has zero screening along it and the one across the street as you can see on that one you had the white rail fence along Square Lake then you had a cyclone fence and then the wood fence behind that I mean beyond what you showed us in the pictures are you aware of any fences with any screening on Square Lake oh no I'm not that mostly it's overgrown brush if you will and a lot of the houses that are along there as a matter of fact I think the name of the company O'Brien was just down Square Lake Road cleaning up the overgrown brush all the way down on both sides I go through this area often and I don't recall seeing much screaming on fences do you turn around in our in our driveway that's not me but I have seen a lot of broken white fences that are in the right away so it is can you show it is there a sort of a top view that shows the location of the fence in relation to the existing trees there's something that shows them if you go back to the plan the actual that one right there right along I thought we had something showed yeah so this is Square Lake right here this is where we're going to put the fence and in this area here it would be between white rail fence and here and it'd be 12 the the fence we're proposing would be 12 feet from the existing white rail fence 24 feet from Square Lake Road from the curb and along this section right here is where the foliage is but you showed us a picture because you said you put some posts up that we couldn't see but that's a picture you took yeah could you show that again Okay, so that's, so your fence is going to be behind all of those trees? Correct. Okay. Yeah, it'll be, those trees right there are about eight foot from the white rail fence. We're going to be another four feet beyond that. So really planting any screening there would be difficult. Yeah, I don't know if you can really tell from there, but this is a grade that goes up at a fairly steep,

  82. along I thought we had something showed yeah so this is Square Lake right here this is where we're going to put the fence and in this area here it would be between white rail fence and here and it'd be 12 the the fence we're proposing would be 12 feet from the existing white rail fence 24 feet from Square Lake Road from the curb and along this section right here is where the foliage is but you showed us a picture because you said you put some posts up that we couldn't see but that's a picture you took yeah could you show that again Okay, so that's, so your fence is going to be behind all of those trees? Correct. Okay. Yeah, it'll be, those trees right there are about eight foot from the white rail fence. We're going to be another four feet beyond that. So really planting any screening there would be difficult. Yeah, I don't know if you can really tell from there, but this is a grade that goes up at a fairly steep, grade. Right, and then also just the shade and the roots and all that. Right. I mean, if you let me, I'd put a retaining wall in and, you know, then I can plant. So I'm going to open the public hearing. Anyone would like to comment on this? So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back. So I think we have a picture. So I'm struggling with this. I mean, it's, you know, don't like just a piece of fence, but he is on Square Lake. Like, normally you want screening. You can't screen it, but it looks pretty dense. Ten minutes out of the year, you can't see it. So two months out of the year, you can. Don't like, I don't like, you know, doing it. But I can kind of see you're trying to use your yard more effectively. And it's a major throwaway. What's that? I mean, it is a major throwaway. And the biggest thing is it's Square Lake. So if it was any place else, I wouldn't do it. But, you know, it's Square Lake. I'm going to. So are you guys okay with it? Yes. Do you have a question? I just. at a question is ours so the um the treated wood is that going to be yeah it's like greeny it's like a light green like very pale green okay i don't know

  83. grade. Right, and then also just the shade and the roots and all that. Right. I mean, if you let me, I'd put a retaining wall in and, you know, then I can plant. So I'm going to open the public hearing. Anyone would like to comment on this? So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back. So I think we have a picture. So I'm struggling with this. I mean, it's, you know, don't like just a piece of fence, but he is on Square Lake. Like, normally you want screening. You can't screen it, but it looks pretty dense. Ten minutes out of the year, you can't see it. So two months out of the year, you can. Don't like, I don't like, you know, doing it. But I can kind of see you're trying to use your yard more effectively. And it's a major throwaway. What's that? I mean, it is a major throwaway. And the biggest thing is it's Square Lake. So if it was any place else, I wouldn't do it. But, you know, it's Square Lake. I'm going to. So are you guys okay with it? Yes. Do you have a question? I just. at a question is ours so the um the treated wood is that going to be yeah it's like greeny it's like a light green like very pale green okay i don't know sort of make sure that if it's a darker color it's going to be harder to see it so right that's what i was thinking uh well weather i think we could we could change it to a cedar fence and that way then it would have more of the brown color to it then when it was treated it then a green naturally kind of yeah i thought it was going to darken or right and blend in that sort of matches the other yeah yeah oh wait this is so this so this was a fence that we had gotten permission to replace the existing fence a few years ago this is the cedar color is that what you're planning on no we weren't but we would have no problem with changing it to the cedar color i don't like regulating color but well i just say a darker you know if you could make it darker and that's the if you like that then like the natural colors

  84. yeah it's like greeny it's like a light green like very pale green okay i don't know sort of make sure that if it's a darker color it's going to be harder to see it so right that's what i was thinking uh well weather i think we could we could change it to a cedar fence and that way then it would have more of the brown color to it then when it was treated it then a green naturally kind of yeah i thought it was going to darken or right and blend in that sort of matches the other yeah yeah oh wait this is so this so this was a fence that we had gotten permission to replace the existing fence a few years ago this is the cedar color is that what you're planning on no we weren't but we would have no problem with changing it to the cedar color i don't like regulating color but well i just say a darker you know if you could make it darker and that's the if you like that then like the natural colors know what I mean by that? Anything that ages over time it becomes. Okay, ready for a motion. I'll make a motion then. I'm getting a lot of people wanting to move. I think we should serve snacks and I think it would change. No, no, no, it's not an airport. Okay, well in regards to the appeal at 377 Kendry for a six foot high fence located on Square Lake Road which is a secondary frontage. I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without this six foot fence on a very busy thoroughfare like Square Lake it would prevent reasonable use of the property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be very difficult to see and there's natural screenings there as well. Unique circumstances of the property, they have multiple frontages. I do understand that. I have three frontages myself. So that is extremely unique and because of that it is not self created.

  85. know what I mean by that? Anything that ages over time it becomes. Okay, ready for a motion. I'll make a motion then. I'm getting a lot of people wanting to move. I think we should serve snacks and I think it would change. No, no, no, it's not an airport. Okay, well in regards to the appeal at 377 Kendry for a six foot high fence located on Square Lake Road which is a secondary frontage. I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without this six foot fence on a very busy thoroughfare like Square Lake it would prevent reasonable use of the property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be very difficult to see and there's natural screenings there as well. Unique circumstances of the property, they have multiple frontages. I do understand that. I have three frontages myself. So that is extremely unique and because of that it is not self created. With that said, if approved the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. I don't think I'm going. I don't think I'm going. to add additional evergreen plantings for the screening of this fence. I do believe that that would be very difficult. I don't know if the plantings would actually survive in that particular area. And I think because of the sloping and all of that and the distance it is from the actual square lake that I'm not going to require additional screenings. Support. So I have a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Can I have a clarification? On the fence material, did you want us to go with the darker or the lighter, doesn't matter? We're not going to, I don't, I mean, I motioned. I don't want to, you know, whatever you, whatever you feel is best. It's best that it is. Whatever you best, just help us out and have it blend in as much as possible. All right, will do. Okay. Okay, thank you. I think we worked with you quite a bit, so. Okay. Item 10. Item 10, there you are. Good evening. My name is Stephen Bonamay from Creative Design Build.

  86. So that is extremely unique and because of that it is not self created. With that said, if approved the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. I don't think I'm going. I don't think I'm going. to add additional evergreen plantings for the screening of this fence. I do believe that that would be very difficult. I don't know if the plantings would actually survive in that particular area. And I think because of the sloping and all of that and the distance it is from the actual square lake that I'm not going to require additional screenings. Support. So I have a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Can I have a clarification? On the fence material, did you want us to go with the darker or the lighter, doesn't matter? We're not going to, I don't, I mean, I motioned. I don't want to, you know, whatever you, whatever you feel is best. It's best that it is. Whatever you best, just help us out and have it blend in as much as possible. All right, will do. Okay. Okay, thank you. I think we worked with you quite a bit, so. Okay. Item 10. Item 10, there you are. Good evening. My name is Stephen Bonamay from Creative Design Build. I'm here on behalf of the Zerwis family, who are the homeowners of 2852 Macefield Court. The Zerwis family came to Creative to renovate their rear yard, and as a part of the project, we are requesting approval for the accessory use of a spa. The proposed spa will be located in the rear yard, immediately adjacent to the patio, providing safe and convenient access from the home. The placement has been carefully selected to integrate with the overall landscape design, while minimize any impact to the neighboring properties. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. There is an existing mature evergreen hedge that already provides substantial year-round screening that we are going to extend to completely enclose the spa and patio from view from the adjacent property or the road. The spa will be equipped with a locking cover that meets all safety standards and will remain secured whenever the spa is not in use. We believe this request is consistent with the intent of the ordinance, creates no adverse impact on the surrounding neighborhood and represents a reasonable access for use of the property. We respectfully ask for your approval of this request, and I can answer any questions. The spa is three feet high. Yes, sir. It says right there.

  87. My name is Stephen Bonamay from Creative Design Build. I'm here on behalf of the Zerwis family, who are the homeowners of 2852 Macefield Court. The Zerwis family came to Creative to renovate their rear yard, and as a part of the project, we are requesting approval for the accessory use of a spa. The proposed spa will be located in the rear yard, immediately adjacent to the patio, providing safe and convenient access from the home. The placement has been carefully selected to integrate with the overall landscape design, while minimize any impact to the neighboring properties. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. There is an existing mature evergreen hedge that already provides substantial year-round screening that we are going to extend to completely enclose the spa and patio from view from the adjacent property or the road. The spa will be equipped with a locking cover that meets all safety standards and will remain secured whenever the spa is not in use. We believe this request is consistent with the intent of the ordinance, creates no adverse impact on the surrounding neighborhood and represents a reasonable access for use of the property. We respectfully ask for your approval of this request, and I can answer any questions. The spa is three feet high. Yes, sir. It says right there. I believe it's up. 38 inches. Three feet, two inches. Okay. Just wanted to see if you read your notes. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Anyone? Close public hearing. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Please. With regard to the appeal at 2852 Macefield Court, for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the accessory structure is not objectionable to nearby residents by the reason that there is sufficient distance to limit the noise. It does not interfere with neighboring properties whatsoever. It is completely screened from neighboring properties. neighboring properties. So, with that being said, if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the spa from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting, although it does look like you have that already accommodated for. Support. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted.

  88. I believe it's up. 38 inches. Three feet, two inches. Okay. Just wanted to see if you read your notes. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Anyone? Close public hearing. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Please. With regard to the appeal at 2852 Macefield Court, for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the accessory structure is not objectionable to nearby residents by the reason that there is sufficient distance to limit the noise. It does not interfere with neighboring properties whatsoever. It is completely screened from neighboring properties. neighboring properties. So, with that being said, if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the spa from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting, although it does look like you have that already accommodated for. Support. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Calling item 11. 3038 Betsy Ross Toronto. Great street for the month of July. It is. My name is Nick Danfuss. I'm the resident at that address, and I am seeking permission requests for a shed and a dimensional variance request for a play structure inside of the setback. Okay, so it looks like the shed is under construction. It is at a more complete stage than that now. That was an older photo. Oh, okay. So it's existing. It's existing. Well, it's in the process of being built. In the process of being existing. Any other questions? Is there a reason why the play structure is within the setback? There's a mature maple tree there that we're trying to take advantage of the shade there. There were some roots. There were some roots. we needed to work around and it ended up being inside of the setback how high is the play structure off the ground 12 feet the peak is 12 feet uh the deck that you see there is uh about four four and a half how long has it been there five years

  89. Calling item 11. 3038 Betsy Ross Toronto. Great street for the month of July. It is. My name is Nick Danfuss. I'm the resident at that address, and I am seeking permission requests for a shed and a dimensional variance request for a play structure inside of the setback. Okay, so it looks like the shed is under construction. It is at a more complete stage than that now. That was an older photo. Oh, okay. So it's existing. It's existing. Well, it's in the process of being built. In the process of being existing. Any other questions? Is there a reason why the play structure is within the setback? There's a mature maple tree there that we're trying to take advantage of the shade there. There were some roots. There were some roots. we needed to work around and it ended up being inside of the setback how high is the play structure off the ground 12 feet the peak is 12 feet uh the deck that you see there is uh about four four and a half how long has it been there five years any other questions openness to public anyone like to comment on this item so close public hearing do you have any attention at screening it uh i can if that's going to be required we can do some evergreens that'd be good that's no problem my crew drawing from my phone here um on the right those are uh existing they block the shed from the roadway and on the south side there uh the play structure there are some existing along the west lot line and then like i said i'm happy to add some more along the north and in that uh southwest corner if needed is the play structure visible from the road or i couldn't tell from that uh with the arborvitaes there no so currently those are currently there correct but those arborvitaes are not on your property oh to the south there uh no those are not on my property is there any way to move it farther away from the fence uh no what if we were to extend if you know

  90. any other questions openness to public anyone like to comment on this item so close public hearing do you have any attention at screening it uh i can if that's going to be required we can do some evergreens that'd be good that's no problem my crew drawing from my phone here um on the right those are uh existing they block the shed from the roadway and on the south side there uh the play structure there are some existing along the west lot line and then like i said i'm happy to add some more along the north and in that uh southwest corner if needed is the play structure visible from the road or i couldn't tell from that uh with the arborvitaes there no so currently those are currently there correct but those arborvitaes are not on your property oh to the south there uh no those are not on my property is there any way to move it farther away from the fence uh no what if we were to extend if you know arborvities across that lot line that we're seeing in the back there yes along the west property line there huh yeah I'd be happy to do that the fact that we can see that house probably means that they can see the play structure and we're trying to make sure that that's not something that's that and the shed are not viewable by the neighbors so you're gonna screen it from public view yes the structure in the shit structure in the show correct and so that means it's gonna our varieties are gonna be to the height of the structure in time so you have to have that at the time of planting planting well respectfully there's a golf simulator in our neighborhood that was approved by this board that has plantings that are not the height of the structure I'm just asking for a similar consideration that's so that that'd be up to the enforcement division okay yeah so we set the standard so if you want to make our enforcement division aware of the golf simulator that's one thing but that you know we're

  91. arborvities across that lot line that we're seeing in the back there yes along the west property line there huh yeah I'd be happy to do that the fact that we can see that house probably means that they can see the play structure and we're trying to make sure that that's not something that's that and the shed are not viewable by the neighbors so you're gonna screen it from public view yes the structure in the shit structure in the show correct and so that means it's gonna our varieties are gonna be to the height of the structure in time so you have to have that at the time of planting planting well respectfully there's a golf simulator in our neighborhood that was approved by this board that has plantings that are not the height of the structure I'm just asking for a similar consideration that's so that that'd be up to the enforcement division okay yeah so we set the standard so if you want to make our enforcement division aware of the golf simulator that's one thing but that you know we're trying to enforce the ordinance yeah I'm not interested in you know taking any action like that I just want to be able to use my property in a similar fashion and we're just trying to be Yeah, it puts us kind of in a bind when something is existing, because normally we could have talked these things through before it was built, so now we're trying to see what we can do, right? And it's, you know, unfortunately, typically we don't even have to approve place structures other than if they're in the setbacks and yours is high and it's in the setback. So the piles for the place structure, those cemented in, is that why you can't move it? That's correct. Well, certainly some sort of screening at least in that section to the height of the place structure in that area, is that feasible? Yeah, I can do that. Okay, that would be great.

  92. division aware of the golf simulator that's one thing but that you know we're trying to enforce the ordinance yeah I'm not interested in you know taking any action like that I just want to be able to use my property in a similar fashion and we're just trying to be Yeah, it puts us kind of in a bind when something is existing, because normally we could have talked these things through before it was built, so now we're trying to see what we can do, right? And it's, you know, unfortunately, typically we don't even have to approve place structures other than if they're in the setbacks and yours is high and it's in the setback. So the piles for the place structure, those cemented in, is that why you can't move it? That's correct. Well, certainly some sort of screening at least in that section to the height of the place structure in that area, is that feasible? Yeah, I can do that. Okay, that would be great. Well, and also because, and I'm just directing this to my fellow board members, in this case, if the property line is back far enough, as long as the arbor varieties are high enough that the, because it's technically not at the top of the thing, but as long as it's obscuring the view of it, you might only need 10 feet as opposed to 14 feet or whatever. Right. That's true. Yeah. It just has to be screened. It just has to be screened. Yeah, and I guess maybe even in this case, what we're looking for is sort of a softening of it. I'm trying to be... reasonable with him because there is a row on the other side that's not his, which he can't count, but certainly right now blocks the view. So, how tall is it, the place, director? 12 at the peak. Okay, so what are you suggesting that you would like to screen it to what height? Would you say eventually? I'd be happy to plant some green giant arborvitaes at 10 feet. And then just use a lot of miracle grow. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. Okay, you guys okay with that or no? I think it's softening that, in that, making that effort to soften it, I mean 10 feet, I mean. Yeah, I think it's been there four years? Five. Five years, okay, so.

  93. Well, and also because, and I'm just directing this to my fellow board members, in this case, if the property line is back far enough, as long as the arbor varieties are high enough that the, because it's technically not at the top of the thing, but as long as it's obscuring the view of it, you might only need 10 feet as opposed to 14 feet or whatever. Right. That's true. Yeah. It just has to be screened. It just has to be screened. Yeah, and I guess maybe even in this case, what we're looking for is sort of a softening of it. I'm trying to be... reasonable with him because there is a row on the other side that's not his, which he can't count, but certainly right now blocks the view. So, how tall is it, the place, director? 12 at the peak. Okay, so what are you suggesting that you would like to screen it to what height? Would you say eventually? I'd be happy to plant some green giant arborvitaes at 10 feet. And then just use a lot of miracle grow. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. Okay, you guys okay with that or no? I think it's softening that, in that, making that effort to soften it, I mean 10 feet, I mean. Yeah, I think it's been there four years? Five. Five years, okay, so. So we're trying to picture balance. Yeah, because it's white. Carol was here, she'd be kicking me, I think. Carol would kick me. But no, I think that would work. Don't you guys think? Reasonable board? No, no, Jason. Okay, let's give him the motion. So what about the shed? We're also screening the shed? Yeah, he said he would screen the shed. Yes. Now what about the height of that screening? Is that to the height of the structure? You can do that because we helped you out on the play structure. Yeah, so I believe I submitted some photos. There are some arborvitaes along the front, and I'd be happy to add them along the side as well. Okay, so that you can't see it. Correct. Public view. Okay. I think we can have the motion. Yeah, that's it. Okay, so let's get to see. We have a very cooperative applicant. Did you open it to the public? I'll open it to the public. Anyone like to speak? I think I did. All right. Here's your second chance. Any of you guys? I know one of you wants to talk. I must have missed it. No? I'll close it. Okay. Now we can have the motion. You ready, Ed? Yes. You're on the verge of a great motion. Relative to the permission request, um, at 3038 Betsy Ross Drive, um, required for the shed.

  94. I mean 10 feet, I mean. Yeah, I think it's been there four years? Five. Five years, okay, so. So we're trying to picture balance. Yeah, because it's white. Carol was here, she'd be kicking me, I think. Carol would kick me. But no, I think that would work. Don't you guys think? Reasonable board? No, no, Jason. Okay, let's give him the motion. So what about the shed? We're also screening the shed? Yeah, he said he would screen the shed. Yes. Now what about the height of that screening? Is that to the height of the structure? You can do that because we helped you out on the play structure. Yeah, so I believe I submitted some photos. There are some arborvitaes along the front, and I'd be happy to add them along the side as well. Okay, so that you can't see it. Correct. Public view. Okay. I think we can have the motion. Yeah, that's it. Okay, so let's get to see. We have a very cooperative applicant. Did you open it to the public? I'll open it to the public. Anyone like to speak? I think I did. All right. Here's your second chance. Any of you guys? I know one of you wants to talk. I must have missed it. No? I'll close it. Okay. Now we can have the motion. You ready, Ed? Yes. You're on the verge of a great motion. Relative to the permission request, um, at 3038 Betsy Ross Drive, um, required for the shed. Um, I move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all of the standards for practical difficulty, um, Um, because there is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the fact that we have agreed to, um, uh, a, um, screening strategy that should mitigate that satisfactorily. Um, and as far as that goes, um, okay, so that we covered the dimensional variance, excuse me, of the permission request. And then for the dimension, dimensional variance, uh, required for the existing play structure encroaching 10 feet into. that required 16-foot side setback, I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with the, based on the information presented,

  95. Relative to the permission request, um, at 3038 Betsy Ross Drive, um, required for the shed. Um, I move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all of the standards for practical difficulty, um, Um, because there is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the fact that we have agreed to, um, uh, a, um, screening strategy that should mitigate that satisfactorily. Um, and as far as that goes, um, okay, so that we covered the dimensional variance, excuse me, of the permission request. And then for the dimension, dimensional variance, uh, required for the existing play structure encroaching 10 feet into. that required 16-foot side setback, I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with the, based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the fact that they would no longer be able to use the structure which they have been using for several years. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the screening plan. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated and it's not self created due to the fact that we are screening it to avoid any possible problems with the neighbors. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days for the existing play structure. Application for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the shed and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and additional evergreen plantings will be required to screen the accessory structures from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of planting as viewed by the neighbors. I have a discussion point. I have a discussion point. I have a discussion point. I have a discussion point.

  96. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with the, based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the fact that they would no longer be able to use the structure which they have been using for several years. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the screening plan. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated and it's not self created due to the fact that we are screening it to avoid any possible problems with the neighbors. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days for the existing play structure. Application for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the shed and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and additional evergreen plantings will be required to screen the accessory structures from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of planting as viewed by the neighbors. I have a discussion point. I have a discussion point. I have a discussion point. I have a discussion point. Because the shed is half built, does that make a difference for an existing, so should the permit be within five days? Okay, five days, yes. I would like to amend that to five days, if I can get support. Support. Okay, we have an amended motion, Mr. Chair. So we have an amended motion. We have amended support. Any further discussion on the amended motion? All those in favor of the amended motion, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request, as modified, has been granted. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Calling item 12. 6487 Sunningdale. Hi, I'm Sunny Dartigan. I'm here on behalf of my husband, Dennis Begovich. We are seeking a variance for our property, 6487 Sunningdale. We've been at the home, living there for six years. We have one of those unique properties with a secondary front yard. And we're just taking this six-foot fence, privacy fence now, because of the, there was a safety path installation, and they removed a lot of,

  97. Because the shed is half built, does that make a difference for an existing, so should the permit be within five days? Okay, five days, yes. I would like to amend that to five days, if I can get support. Support. Okay, we have an amended motion, Mr. Chair. So we have an amended motion. We have amended support. Any further discussion on the amended motion? All those in favor of the amended motion, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request, as modified, has been granted. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Calling item 12. 6487 Sunningdale. Hi, I'm Sunny Dartigan. I'm here on behalf of my husband, Dennis Begovich. We are seeking a variance for our property, 6487 Sunningdale. We've been at the home, living there for six years. We have one of those unique properties with a secondary front yard. And we're just taking this six-foot fence, privacy fence now, because of the, there was a safety path installation, and they removed a lot of, I'm in a lot of party, let's get a little bit of George angle. I mean, of course, I just come from your public, but I ever got some And I met a lot of, like from your parents above it, but I was looking for someone else basically on microphone so far... Thank you. vegetation that was kind of separating us from the maple road and that you know kind of increased a noise barrier to us and um it poses a lot of privacy issues now as you can see the before and after pictures so um that's basically it we're um looking at a six foot it's gonna be at a 40 to 41 feet away from the maple road and i'm looking at a vinyl six foot privacy fence in clay color to match the siding of the house i mean i'm open to any other color suggestions anything um we've looked and talked to many um arborists um horticulturists to see because i know that um screening is preferred however they're all saying i don't they don't think anything's

  98. And we're just taking this six-foot fence, privacy fence now, because of the, there was a safety path installation, and they removed a lot of, I'm in a lot of party, let's get a little bit of George angle. I mean, of course, I just come from your public, but I ever got some And I met a lot of, like from your parents above it, but I was looking for someone else basically on microphone so far... Thank you. vegetation that was kind of separating us from the maple road and that you know kind of increased a noise barrier to us and um it poses a lot of privacy issues now as you can see the before and after pictures so um that's basically it we're um looking at a six foot it's gonna be at a 40 to 41 feet away from the maple road and i'm looking at a vinyl six foot privacy fence in clay color to match the siding of the house i mean i'm open to any other color suggestions anything um we've looked and talked to many um arborists um horticulturists to see because i know that um screening is preferred however they're all saying i don't they don't think anything's going to establish there just because unless we clear cut um the existing vegetation we've looked into um trying to move the fence in but we don't think that that's going to really um work it's not going to align with the edge of the driveway and the it's going to reduce our usable yard space so in that sense we only have about 17 18 feet of that side yard um so it just doesn't really aesthetically look it's not going to look right so is that the uh the safety path there at the base of the fence no that's just an example of the fence itself that i was thinking about like a vinyl fence that's that would like match just as an example of the color of the house so okay so there's the safety path yep that's the existing safety path and do you uh i see some some trees interspersed and then your house is behind there yes are there any arborvitaes back there at the edge of the the wooded area the sparsely wooded area there are no arborvitaes there are some burning bushes on the other side

  99. that um screening is preferred however they're all saying i don't they don't think anything's going to establish there just because unless we clear cut um the existing vegetation we've looked into um trying to move the fence in but we don't think that that's going to really um work it's not going to align with the edge of the driveway and the it's going to reduce our usable yard space so in that sense we only have about 17 18 feet of that side yard um so it just doesn't really aesthetically look it's not going to look right so is that the uh the safety path there at the base of the fence no that's just an example of the fence itself that i was thinking about like a vinyl fence that's that would like match just as an example of the color of the house so okay so there's the safety path yep that's the existing safety path and do you uh i see some some trees interspersed and then your house is behind there yes are there any arborvitaes back there at the edge of the the wooded area the sparsely wooded area there are no arborvitaes there are some burning bushes on the other side which we love um um yeah there's no arborvitaes and i've like i said i've called um a horticulturist an arborist we've actually gone back and forth with an eesd director of the township corey almas asking him okay what can you do as far as the replacement here because this was we talked about trimming this was clearly like removing a lot for us so you can imagine when came back from vacation that we were a little stunned what happened here um and even i have it in writing from them that they don't even think that nothing on that side would actually survive so they're just saying we'll just wait until some native you know undergrowth grows and and things like that they did replace the southwest corner right by the front of the driveway southwest of Sunningdale and maple so we're waiting for that to grow in but nothing further back where the actual where my kid plays where we like to spend some time when you say they said nothing would survive there who is

  100. sparsely wooded area there are no arborvitaes there are some burning bushes on the other side which we love um um yeah there's no arborvitaes and i've like i said i've called um a horticulturist an arborist we've actually gone back and forth with an eesd director of the township corey almas asking him okay what can you do as far as the replacement here because this was we talked about trimming this was clearly like removing a lot for us so you can imagine when came back from vacation that we were a little stunned what happened here um and even i have it in writing from them that they don't even think that nothing on that side would actually survive so they're just saying we'll just wait until some native you know undergrowth grows and and things like that they did replace the southwest corner right by the front of the driveway southwest of Sunningdale and maple so we're waiting for that to grow in but nothing further back where the actual where my kid plays where we like to spend some time when you say they said nothing would survive there who is they yes the director Cory Elmas like the township and along with the arborist that I've you know called to just do the diligence on my part and make sure that before I came here so where would the put the fence be placed then relative to those in that in that picture there is it going to be on this side of the green foliage that we're seeing or is it going to be on the house side it would be on the house side okay so it would be yeah if you can kind of zoom in it would be kind of behind the burning bush if you see it like I'll just kind of point it like like right here okay okay but it would also be hidden because there's that berm the berm is about three feet too you so for the the significant up you know length of the the fence it would be hidden that three feet would be hidden of it and so i think towards the back where um there's a little bit of that slope that's about 18 feet that i um measured it would just be that would not be but there's so

  101. to spend some time when you say they said nothing would survive there who is they yes the director Cory Elmas like the township and along with the arborist that I've you know called to just do the diligence on my part and make sure that before I came here so where would the put the fence be placed then relative to those in that in that picture there is it going to be on this side of the green foliage that we're seeing or is it going to be on the house side it would be on the house side okay so it would be yeah if you can kind of zoom in it would be kind of behind the burning bush if you see it like I'll just kind of point it like like right here okay okay but it would also be hidden because there's that berm the berm is about three feet too you so for the the significant up you know length of the the fence it would be hidden that three feet would be hidden of it and so i think towards the back where um there's a little bit of that slope that's about 18 feet that i um measured it would just be that would not be but there's so much shade there nothing really grows there so it's similar to the other request so this fence doesn't connect to anything no you know it for privacy or along another busy road maple you've got existing trees there that prevent you so you'd have to you know take them down to put in evergreens they're not evergreen so we've kind of got the same set of factors here we're kind of going against the use of the fence to screen but what if there's already mature trees in the spot or in this case we had a safety path that went in that took took some of the other vegetation out yeah so you know you're trying to uh preserve the privacy uh and the the effective safe usage of your yard for your children and i understand that completely i'm a parent myself um as far as the color of the fence one of the things that we're trying to avoid is anything that would attract attention to the fence we don't want people looking at like this fence sticks out i mean if it just blends it so if you could choose uh whatever color you think would kind of blend in and draw the least attention that would be definitely be the least objectionable to anybody yeah

  102. slope that's about 18 feet that i um measured it would just be that would not be but there's so much shade there nothing really grows there so it's similar to the other request so this fence doesn't connect to anything no you know it for privacy or along another busy road maple you've got existing trees there that prevent you so you'd have to you know take them down to put in evergreens they're not evergreen so we've kind of got the same set of factors here we're kind of going against the use of the fence to screen but what if there's already mature trees in the spot or in this case we had a safety path that went in that took took some of the other vegetation out yeah so you know you're trying to uh preserve the privacy uh and the the effective safe usage of your yard for your children and i understand that completely i'm a parent myself um as far as the color of the fence one of the things that we're trying to avoid is anything that would attract attention to the fence we don't want people looking at like this fence sticks out i mean if it just blends it so if you could choose uh whatever color you think would kind of blend in and draw the least attention that would be definitely be the least objectionable to anybody yeah I mean, I'm totally open to that. I just didn't, I was just like, oh, maybe they'll want it to match to the house. You know? I didn't know. So I'm absolutely open to that. That's helpful. Yeah. I thought I did. I'll open a public hearing for this. Nothing? Okay. Close public hearing. I'll make a motion. These guys are saving up their comments. With regard to the appeal at, hang on here, 6487 Sunningdale for the request for six-foot high fence located in the Maple Road secondary frontage. I move that this variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact that this is a corner lot. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason the fact that this fence will essentially be screened by a berm and not be visible from the public. Unique circumstances with this property have been demonstrated because, again, it is a corner

  103. I mean, I'm totally open to that. I just didn't, I was just like, oh, maybe they'll want it to match to the house. You know? I didn't know. So I'm absolutely open to that. That's helpful. Yeah. I thought I did. I'll open a public hearing for this. Nothing? Okay. Close public hearing. I'll make a motion. These guys are saving up their comments. With regard to the appeal at, hang on here, 6487 Sunningdale for the request for six-foot high fence located in the Maple Road secondary frontage. I move that this variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact that this is a corner lot. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason the fact that this fence will essentially be screened by a berm and not be visible from the public. Unique circumstances with this property have been demonstrated because, again, it is a corner lot and has multiple frontages, and this is not self-created. So, if approved, the application must – the application for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. The application must be represented by the Commission, but the application would take all souls 하지-��� Evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fence from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the fence at the time of planting. Yet, I do understand that that may not be possible and that the berm is essentially your evergreen plantings. But if any of those trees were to essentially maybe die off or something like that down the road, if that's the case, it becomes very obvious to the public. You may be required to plant evergreen plantings. It will give us a chance to. Completely understand. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Item 13. Another fence. So very similar. I have a two front yard. Secondary front, yep.

  104. Unique circumstances with this property have been demonstrated because, again, it is a corner lot and has multiple frontages, and this is not self-created. So, if approved, the application must – the application for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. The application must be represented by the Commission, but the application would take all souls 하지-��� Evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fence from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the fence at the time of planting. Yet, I do understand that that may not be possible and that the berm is essentially your evergreen plantings. But if any of those trees were to essentially maybe die off or something like that down the road, if that's the case, it becomes very obvious to the public. You may be required to plant evergreen plantings. It will give us a chance to. Completely understand. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Item 13. Another fence. So very similar. I have a two front yard. Secondary front, yep. Secondary front, yep. Yes. So I have a front yard to South Cranbrook and then South Cranbrook Cross. Um, I have a lot of mature trees that I'm very excited about. Um, with that being said, I am asking for a variance to extend the fence into the front yard on South Cranbrook Cross. Um, we're going to go out with the life center floor today. Um, wow. Very open. So, um, I am very open. Thank you. Voice over to be from home. You are open. 感 mahdoll. Whereas people open. where it lands or if it is approved the structure that's to the back is my current garage so my property line doesn't expand past that and then it would align with the driveway and then proposing to bring the fence three feet up from the existing sidewalk so it's not coming up to the existing sidewalk and then there would be a landscape area that i would be willing to plant for that fence do you have a dog i do so is this is this for the dog um so i have two pugs they cannot be outside for extended amounts of time um they cannot do well in the heat i am typically outside with my dogs

  105. Secondary front, yep. Secondary front, yep. Yes. So I have a front yard to South Cranbrook and then South Cranbrook Cross. Um, I have a lot of mature trees that I'm very excited about. Um, with that being said, I am asking for a variance to extend the fence into the front yard on South Cranbrook Cross. Um, we're going to go out with the life center floor today. Um, wow. Very open. So, um, I am very open. Thank you. Voice over to be from home. You are open. 感 mahdoll. Whereas people open. where it lands or if it is approved the structure that's to the back is my current garage so my property line doesn't expand past that and then it would align with the driveway and then proposing to bring the fence three feet up from the existing sidewalk so it's not coming up to the existing sidewalk and then there would be a landscape area that i would be willing to plant for that fence do you have a dog i do so is this is this for the dog um so i have two pugs they cannot be outside for extended amounts of time um they cannot do well in the heat i am typically outside with my dogs at all times because i have lived in north carolina with hoas who did nothing about barking dogs so i'm very cognizant of that um but it is for the dogs in regards to safety from other dogs coming into the yard because i am in a corner lot there could be a dog coming around the corner i may or may not know especially at night when letting the dogs out um so in regards to is it for the safety of the dogs yes but it's not to leave them out unattended for any extended time so the wonderful thing about our ordinance is that because you own a dog and we now have an enclosed area, we have to treat this as a dog fence even though it may not be the primary reason. So we also have to approve the two existing fences. So I think you said this. The one part of the fence is only three feet away from the sidewalk. So what's the thinking behind that? Again, I'm happy to move it up if it needs to come up. That's good. Yeah, very open to that.

  106. for extended amounts of time um they cannot do well in the heat i am typically outside with my dogs at all times because i have lived in north carolina with hoas who did nothing about barking dogs so i'm very cognizant of that um but it is for the dogs in regards to safety from other dogs coming into the yard because i am in a corner lot there could be a dog coming around the corner i may or may not know especially at night when letting the dogs out um so in regards to is it for the safety of the dogs yes but it's not to leave them out unattended for any extended time so the wonderful thing about our ordinance is that because you own a dog and we now have an enclosed area, we have to treat this as a dog fence even though it may not be the primary reason. So we also have to approve the two existing fences. So I think you said this. The one part of the fence is only three feet away from the sidewalk. So what's the thinking behind that? Again, I'm happy to move it up if it needs to come up. That's good. Yeah, very open to that. Okay. I didn't want it coming up to the sidewalk because again, I've lived in a choice that have allowed that. I know that's potential for issues with dogs passing and comfort of neighbors. Okay. So that helps us. I mean, so it's a dog enclosure fence. We don't want it on the sidewalk. You're old. Yeah. How far away would you? I would still like to utilize some of the side yard, but like I said, very open to that. Well, you can still utilize the side yard. With the fence enclosure. I see. More for enjoyment of the yard. Again, not for leaving the dogs out. Personally, how far is it from the sidewalk to your house? Um, I would say, I think it is 15 feet, 20 feet. Like it's a very short side yard in comparison because the house like goes back from Cranbrook Cross. Love for... Thanks, Ed. ... But South Cranebrook, it is much closer than it is in the front of the house. See, because on the other side, your fence is right on the property line.

  107. That's good. Yeah, very open to that. Okay. I didn't want it coming up to the sidewalk because again, I've lived in a choice that have allowed that. I know that's potential for issues with dogs passing and comfort of neighbors. Okay. So that helps us. I mean, so it's a dog enclosure fence. We don't want it on the sidewalk. You're old. Yeah. How far away would you? I would still like to utilize some of the side yard, but like I said, very open to that. Well, you can still utilize the side yard. With the fence enclosure. I see. More for enjoyment of the yard. Again, not for leaving the dogs out. Personally, how far is it from the sidewalk to your house? Um, I would say, I think it is 15 feet, 20 feet. Like it's a very short side yard in comparison because the house like goes back from Cranbrook Cross. Love for... Thanks, Ed. ... But South Cranebrook, it is much closer than it is in the front of the house. See, because on the other side, your fence is right on the property line. Yeah, I'm assuming. I did not put that fence in. No, no, I'm not. So I'm not. But yes. I'm showing you the area that your dog has to work with. Yes. Yeah, right. So you got all that other room. Yeah. Yes. I believe so. If not, I have a photo. Yes. So I'm proposing, I think they call it a Nantucket style. Again, more to keep it out safe. But I understand it may stick out because it would be visible in the yard. Also, definitely open to, like, black aluminum if that's easier to blend with the yard. Your existing fence, is that the same material? The existing fence is chain link. Oh. And it is shielded by very tall evergreens between the neighbors and I. And then we do have up towards the corner where it was shown on the map is vegetation that shields it from the street as well. We do have to look at the sand. So if we do have a

  108. Yeah, I'm assuming. I did not put that fence in. No, no, I'm not. So I'm not. But yes. I'm showing you the area that your dog has to work with. Yes. Yeah, right. So you got all that other room. Yeah. Yes. I believe so. If not, I have a photo. Yes. So I'm proposing, I think they call it a Nantucket style. Again, more to keep it out safe. But I understand it may stick out because it would be visible in the yard. Also, definitely open to, like, black aluminum if that's easier to blend with the yard. Your existing fence, is that the same material? The existing fence is chain link. Oh. And it is shielded by very tall evergreens between the neighbors and I. And then we do have up towards the corner where it was shown on the map is vegetation that shields it from the street as well. We do have to look at the sand. So if we do have a Were you planning on screening? I have a landscaper who's willing to do what's needed. All right. Well, let me open this to public. I'll open this to the public. Anyone want to speak on this? Closed public hearing. Of course, you guys are saving your energy. Yeah, so I just... Do we have any input on the color, the chosen color or no? It's going to be screened regardless. Okay. Yeah, I'm trying to sort of agree on where the fence is going to be located, right? So it's going to be off the... I do have a map of the fence as well from the fence company. Let me see if I can find that. That might give it a little bit more detail than that.

  109. Were you planning on screening? I have a landscaper who's willing to do what's needed. All right. Well, let me open this to public. I'll open this to the public. Anyone want to speak on this? Closed public hearing. Of course, you guys are saving your energy. Yeah, so I just... Do we have any input on the color, the chosen color or no? It's going to be screened regardless. Okay. Yeah, I'm trying to sort of agree on where the fence is going to be located, right? So it's going to be off the... I do have a map of the fence as well from the fence company. Let me see if I can find that. That might give it a little bit more detail than that. Would you want to shift it closer to the house? Is that what you think of? Well, yeah, further away from the... And she doesn't want to impede the use of her yard. So it's going to be... So it's going to be... while we're waiting for her to pull that up may we see the pictures of the actual home the aerial photos no the area i just wanted to see so there's the chain link is that what i'm seeing oh no okay yes so the chain link is behind the evergreens that are currently there okay so you can't even see it and then it's on on the front of the home is towards the um right inside when you're looking at it so it's very hard to see from the street and then on the right where it says view to the east that's where you're thinking of putting yes um i would like for it to kind of come up here to the driveway and then around this tree because the tree roots will probably impede the fence about it a little bit closer um so that just i would like to go around the tree

  110. That might give it a little bit more detail than that. Would you want to shift it closer to the house? Is that what you think of? Well, yeah, further away from the... And she doesn't want to impede the use of her yard. So it's going to be... So it's going to be... while we're waiting for her to pull that up may we see the pictures of the actual home the aerial photos no the area i just wanted to see so there's the chain link is that what i'm seeing oh no okay yes so the chain link is behind the evergreens that are currently there okay so you can't even see it and then it's on on the front of the home is towards the um right inside when you're looking at it so it's very hard to see from the street and then on the right where it says view to the east that's where you're thinking of putting yes um i would like for it to kind of come up here to the driveway and then around this tree because the tree roots will probably impede the fence about it a little bit closer um so that just i would like to go around the tree to provide shade could you estimate how far the tree is from the sidewalk uh i think it's on the she wants the fence in the front yard is this it's the friends in the front yard is this in the front yard no but she needs the front edge so it's on her it looks it's on the side this is secondary yes but her driveway goes around the inside so i did have the fence company out come out and it is proposing 30 feet of fence and that was up three feet from the sidewalk so if that makes sense so starting at the back of your house is that the case just because naturally it would look through an inn where the door is if there's a natural path there the company that I work with works a lot in blue fields and I know to bring the fence up so that's where he suggested of no amount of three feet if not more to accommodate any landscape request

  111. to provide shade could you estimate how far the tree is from the sidewalk uh i think it's on the she wants the fence in the front yard is this it's the friends in the front yard is this in the front yard no but she needs the front edge so it's on her it looks it's on the side this is secondary yes but her driveway goes around the inside so i did have the fence company out come out and it is proposing 30 feet of fence and that was up three feet from the sidewalk so if that makes sense so starting at the back of your house is that the case just because naturally it would look through an inn where the door is if there's a natural path there the company that I work with works a lot in blue fields and I know to bring the fence up so that's where he suggested of no amount of three feet if not more to accommodate any landscape request but as I mentioned I also didn't want to go in because I don't want dogs to be out of fence with two frontages okay how would you let the dog out from your house is there a door so with two frontage where is the front entrance to your home what would you consider your front entrance right there okay you you you they're drawing that would be the back and so then that drawing where it's on the left that's the fence right where it says 30 58 20 okay so you've been here a long time let her come up to the podium but you have to come to the podium and you have to give your name if it helps us with this it's much appreciated

  112. he suggested of no amount of three feet if not more to accommodate any landscape request but as I mentioned I also didn't want to go in because I don't want dogs to be out of fence with two frontages okay how would you let the dog out from your house is there a door so with two frontage where is the front entrance to your home what would you consider your front entrance right there okay you you you they're drawing that would be the back and so then that drawing where it's on the left that's the fence right where it says 30 58 20 okay so you've been here a long time let her come up to the podium but you have to come to the podium and you have to give your name if it helps us with this it's much appreciated i think that's the front my name is melissa kitts and i insisted that she come tonight so i we've never had to come to a town meeting before have you been impressed has it been lived up to it has been has it been good part of that i think the issue too is is that we've purchased it she's had some things done and we haven't been in the house long enough the it's not that far so it wouldn't be permissible i don't think to do a a setback of the 16 feet it you you're asking for part of the problem too is that we were told there we had two front and so you know the side door has a sidewalk that goes to the sidewalk

  113. come to the podium and you have to give your name if it helps us with this it's much appreciated i think that's the front my name is melissa kitts and i insisted that she come tonight so i we've never had to come to a town meeting before have you been impressed has it been lived up to it has been has it been good part of that i think the issue too is is that we've purchased it she's had some things done and we haven't been in the house long enough the it's not that far so it wouldn't be permissible i don't think to do a a setback of the 16 feet it you you're asking for part of the problem too is that we were told there we had two front and so you know the side door has a sidewalk that goes to the sidewalk and she was thinking of putting it up to that sidewalk to kind of make a division so you do have a side door yes okay yes but it wouldn't be included inside the fence because of neighbors coming if that makes sense so there's the back door if you go back to the picture I have a question for you so on that picture the diagram if we're able to to flip back to that that window there is there a door on that side of the house okay so you're not enclosing the door all right but that's probably why you decided to put the fence there was that you could use your door yeah so you could use the door okay that makes sense all right thanks mom I think we get it so if we make a motion because we got it we got to prove you so you got to prove the fences on the property line

  114. two front and so you know the side door has a sidewalk that goes to the sidewalk and she was thinking of putting it up to that sidewalk to kind of make a division so you do have a side door yes okay yes but it wouldn't be included inside the fence because of neighbors coming if that makes sense so there's the back door if you go back to the picture I have a question for you so on that picture the diagram if we're able to to flip back to that that window there is there a door on that side of the house okay so you're not enclosing the door all right but that's probably why you decided to put the fence there was that you could use your door yeah so you could use the door okay that makes sense all right thanks mom I think we get it so if we make a motion because we got it we got to prove you so you got to prove the fences on the property line and then you got to decide you know she asked again I like getting into the colors the white white fence and then how far off you want to let her go from right she's encroaching nine feet into the 16 foot yeah well technically it's a front yard yeah you have to get away from it yeah so I mean you could actually give the dog you know you could put the fence right here it would just be a much smaller I don't know what the access is but it would be much smaller that's all it is for the dog all right is that is that the main reason you're doing this for the dog no it's for enjoyment yeah okay yeah so I mean but for the dog it'd be a little easier but now you get to worry about the dog come to so and she said she's willing to how much would you be willing to pull it in so that it'll still allow you to enjoy that space I could pull it in I would say like six feet five feet

  115. and then you got to decide you know she asked again I like getting into the colors the white white fence and then how far off you want to let her go from right she's encroaching nine feet into the 16 foot yeah well technically it's a front yard yeah you have to get away from it yeah so I mean you could actually give the dog you know you could put the fence right here it would just be a much smaller I don't know what the access is but it would be much smaller that's all it is for the dog all right is that is that the main reason you're doing this for the dog no it's for enjoyment yeah okay yeah so I mean but for the dog it'd be a little easier but now you get to worry about the dog come to so and she said she's willing to how much would you be willing to pull it in so that it'll still allow you to enjoy that space I could pull it in I would say like six feet five feet up from where it is proposed so I think in total if we did the three feet for the landscaping and then five or six feet it would be nice eight nine feet up from the sidewalk into the side yard yeah I think that at work that's what I'm thinking let's do it Mr. Chairman may I make a motion sure as for the permission request regard to the appeal at 580 South Cranbrook Road for the accessory structure I move the request be approved as this submitted or as amended based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 to 7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood a lot of houses have dog enclosure fence it's important that pets remain safe within the yard the accession location the accessory structure will not hinder or discourage the adjacent use of the property due to the modified setback from the sidewalk and again the accessory structure shall be

  116. you to enjoy that space I could pull it in I would say like six feet five feet up from where it is proposed so I think in total if we did the three feet for the landscaping and then five or six feet it would be nice eight nine feet up from the sidewalk into the side yard yeah I think that at work that's what I'm thinking let's do it Mr. Chairman may I make a motion sure as for the permission request regard to the appeal at 580 South Cranbrook Road for the accessory structure I move the request be approved as this submitted or as amended based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 to 7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood a lot of houses have dog enclosure fence it's important that pets remain safe within the yard the accession location the accessory structure will not hinder or discourage the adjacent use of the property due to the modified setback from the sidewalk and again the accessory structure shall be harmonious to the neighborhood given that a lot of houses have dog enclosure fences as for the dimensional barrier dimensional variance request in regard to the appeal at 580 South Cranbrook Road for the setback variance I move the variance be approved as amended based on the inventor information presented to the depth can It did demonstrate all the standards of practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because, as stated, there are two front yards with this property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because by reason of its four-foot fence and it's going to be set even further back from the sidewalk, unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given that, again, there's two front yards. And it's not self-created due to the fact that it's a unique property that has two front yards as amended instead of as submitted three feet from the sidewalk. The applicant has agreed that it will be, what do you say, eight feet from the sidewalk? Eight feet from the sidewalk.

  117. the modified setback from the sidewalk and again the accessory structure shall be harmonious to the neighborhood given that a lot of houses have dog enclosure fences as for the dimensional barrier dimensional variance request in regard to the appeal at 580 South Cranbrook Road for the setback variance I move the variance be approved as amended based on the inventor information presented to the depth can It did demonstrate all the standards of practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because, as stated, there are two front yards with this property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because by reason of its four-foot fence and it's going to be set even further back from the sidewalk, unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given that, again, there's two front yards. And it's not self-created due to the fact that it's a unique property that has two front yards as amended instead of as submitted three feet from the sidewalk. The applicant has agreed that it will be, what do you say, eight feet from the sidewalk? Eight feet from the sidewalk. If this motion is approved, the application for all necessary requirements must be made within five business days for the existing fence. Is that right? I would say one year because the existing fence is not necessarily related to this request. Okay. Application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. One year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the new fencing. And additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fence from public view that must meet or exceed the height of the structure that being four feet at the time of planting. Support. Say a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is as modified as granted. Thank you. item 14 another fence good evening I'm requesting a to be approved for my fence at 350 Concord place I'm Patricia McGaughy and I'm the owner and I'm going to go from an existing fence that is falling apart and it's four feet and I'm requesting to bring it up to six feet and there are other neighbors

  118. If this motion is approved, the application for all necessary requirements must be made within five business days for the existing fence. Is that right? I would say one year because the existing fence is not necessarily related to this request. Okay. Application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. One year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the new fencing. And additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fence from public view that must meet or exceed the height of the structure that being four feet at the time of planting. Support. Say a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is as modified as granted. Thank you. item 14 another fence good evening I'm requesting a to be approved for my fence at 350 Concord place I'm Patricia McGaughy and I'm the owner and I'm going to go from an existing fence that is falling apart and it's four feet and I'm requesting to bring it up to six feet and there are other neighbors in our complex who do have six feet fences already it's going to be a pine shadow box and the HOA has already approved it and my next-door neighbor has approved it and he's in agreement I do have a letter of his approval for it right with me tonight we can take it for the record is this your existing thing here and you're just going to make it and you can see beyond that fence two houses down that neighbor does already have a six foot fence as well well obviously if your HOA approved it there it's kind of standard in the neighborhood open this to the public no okay close the public hearing bring it back Mr. Chair I'll make a motion okay With regard to the appeal at 350 Concord Place for the dimensional variance request for a six-foot high fence located in the rear yard, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict load of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact it prevents reasonable use of her property.

  119. apart and it's four feet and I'm requesting to bring it up to six feet and there are other neighbors in our complex who do have six feet fences already it's going to be a pine shadow box and the HOA has already approved it and my next-door neighbor has approved it and he's in agreement I do have a letter of his approval for it right with me tonight we can take it for the record is this your existing thing here and you're just going to make it and you can see beyond that fence two houses down that neighbor does already have a six foot fence as well well obviously if your HOA approved it there it's kind of standard in the neighborhood open this to the public no okay close the public hearing bring it back Mr. Chair I'll make a motion okay With regard to the appeal at 350 Concord Place for the dimensional variance request for a six-foot high fence located in the rear yard, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict load of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact it prevents reasonable use of her property. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors. It is consistent with other homes in the area. The unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated once again that it is essentially an existing fence and she's simply replacing it and as a result this is not self-created. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fence from plug-in view and must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of planting. I do understand that your HOA probably has already addressed that. And this is in the rear, so. Okay. I mean, does it need any privacy bushes or arborbodies? Thank you. Support. Motion to support any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Thank you for your patience.

  120. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict load of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact it prevents reasonable use of her property. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors. It is consistent with other homes in the area. The unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated once again that it is essentially an existing fence and she's simply replacing it and as a result this is not self-created. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen plantings may be required to screen the fence from plug-in view and must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of planting. I do understand that your HOA probably has already addressed that. And this is in the rear, so. Okay. I mean, does it need any privacy bushes or arborbodies? Thank you. Support. Motion to support any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Thank you for your patience. so calling on 153868 mill spring good evening Ryan Pasquale and thank you for members of the Lord for welcoming us today I am the owner of impero home renovations here on behalf of Richard Feeney who is a owner of three eight six eight mill spring and we're applying for approval for it to build a detached pergola running 21 feet by 39 feet in length and 18 feet in height only due to the height of the fireplace before walking into the project itself I'd like to address the board and some of the audience as well we want to be upfront with the board that we are aware the HOA is has expressed some concerns in opposition which I'm sure you all are made have made been made aware of and that we have they've submitted letters on that behalf we respect that these are generally held views that we don't dismiss them entirely we anticipate the HOA will be speaking here tonight

  121. so calling on 153868 mill spring good evening Ryan Pasquale and thank you for members of the Lord for welcoming us today I am the owner of impero home renovations here on behalf of Richard Feeney who is a owner of three eight six eight mill spring and we're applying for approval for it to build a detached pergola running 21 feet by 39 feet in length and 18 feet in height only due to the height of the fireplace before walking into the project itself I'd like to address the board and some of the audience as well we want to be upfront with the board that we are aware the HOA is has expressed some concerns in opposition which I'm sure you all are made have made been made aware of and that we have they've submitted letters on that behalf we respect that these are generally held views that we don't dismiss them entirely we anticipate the HOA will be speaking here tonight in opposition citing bylaws for accessory structures we take that seriously as an internal matter and it's kind of our conversations our clients will remain with that, with the HOA directly. We'd also like to know specifically of the HOA. Within the HOA, there are many homes that have detached structures, such as pergolas and pool houses within the neighborhood. In fact, I think it's 79 of 360 homes that have accessory structures built into them. Our application, we don't want to reiterate any of those approvals, but it speaks to the general transition of the neighborhood and that the proposed accessory structure that we are considering developing would fit within the community guidelines and architectural elements of the neighborhood. The structure does conform to setback limits provided by the township. And the HOA screening will be heavily installed

  122. views that we don't dismiss them entirely we anticipate the HOA will be speaking here tonight in opposition citing bylaws for accessory structures we take that seriously as an internal matter and it's kind of our conversations our clients will remain with that, with the HOA directly. We'd also like to know specifically of the HOA. Within the HOA, there are many homes that have detached structures, such as pergolas and pool houses within the neighborhood. In fact, I think it's 79 of 360 homes that have accessory structures built into them. Our application, we don't want to reiterate any of those approvals, but it speaks to the general transition of the neighborhood and that the proposed accessory structure that we are considering developing would fit within the community guidelines and architectural elements of the neighborhood. The structure does conform to setback limits provided by the township. And the HOA screening will be heavily installed to screen the structure from the north neighbor by adding a very tall Arborvitae to extend the Arborvitae row that's currently existing that's more on the south side going towards the residents. And it also complies with architectural elements of the neighborhood itself. Finally, before we field questions from the panel, we're going to talk about this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have submitted letters of support from the neighbors. Some may be here. Not to take away any objections, but just to know that within the neighborhood itself, it's not entirely that it's opposed structure within the neighborhood. Any questions? Structure. In the HOA, we got a letter regarding deed restrictions. Are there deed restrictions that prohibit you from erecting this type of accessory structure? So per the HOA, the HOA file that we found online from the 1950s was that there are no detached structures to the home.

  123. And the HOA screening will be heavily installed to screen the structure from the north neighbor by adding a very tall Arborvitae to extend the Arborvitae row that's currently existing that's more on the south side going towards the residents. And it also complies with architectural elements of the neighborhood itself. Finally, before we field questions from the panel, we're going to talk about this. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We have submitted letters of support from the neighbors. Some may be here. Not to take away any objections, but just to know that within the neighborhood itself, it's not entirely that it's opposed structure within the neighborhood. Any questions? Structure. In the HOA, we got a letter regarding deed restrictions. Are there deed restrictions that prohibit you from erecting this type of accessory structure? So per the HOA, the HOA file that we found online from the 1950s was that there are no detached structures to the home. However, as I said, throughout the last several years, more homes, and we have documents that we can share, I can hand out because we didn't have time to submit them. So we looked at the maps of the subdivision that are on the HOA website. All of the lots. This is one piece. There's five different sections of subdivision. All of the lots with the color represent some sort of accessory structure. In total, there's about 25% of the homes in the neighborhood have the accessory structures that go against the bylaws. Here's the next section here. These are all ones that are obvious in aerial images. I'm sure there's more than that, hidden by existing vegetation. You can see that section there is quite a few pools, which is the blue. More in this section.

  124. So per the HOA, the HOA file that we found online from the 1950s was that there are no detached structures to the home. However, as I said, throughout the last several years, more homes, and we have documents that we can share, I can hand out because we didn't have time to submit them. So we looked at the maps of the subdivision that are on the HOA website. All of the lots. This is one piece. There's five different sections of subdivision. All of the lots with the color represent some sort of accessory structure. In total, there's about 25% of the homes in the neighborhood have the accessory structures that go against the bylaws. Here's the next section here. These are all ones that are obvious in aerial images. I'm sure there's more than that, hidden by existing vegetation. You can see that section there is quite a few pools, which is the blue. More in this section. This is our street here where you see there's multiple on the street with other structures. We also have video. I think we should have it on file. If not, I can pull it up of pool houses and accessory structures that have roof lines above. Those are normal uses. Have you had any direct discussion with the HOA? Is it just a blanket? Our deed restrictions don't allow accessory structures. We don't want any accessory structures, end of story. I don't believe it has been end of story. I think it's been ongoing. We've tried to... But I'm saying there hasn't been any... Can you make this smaller or move this? It's just no? Is that... Correct. The way the deeds are written... No, I'm not asking about the deeds. I'm asking about the discussion with the HOA. Have you had any discussion with the HOA? Mildly, or I would say mildly. Okay, and what was the substance of those discussions? Did they actually modify anything? They haven't... Smaller? It's not... It's not a no, but it is that we have a strict policy against detached structures, and I think Rich has had a well meeting with the HOA. All right, so I'll open public hearing. We'll get it, because I mean, our ordinance is not the same as the HOA, so.

  125. More in this section. This is our street here where you see there's multiple on the street with other structures. We also have video. I think we should have it on file. If not, I can pull it up of pool houses and accessory structures that have roof lines above. Those are normal uses. Have you had any direct discussion with the HOA? Is it just a blanket? Our deed restrictions don't allow accessory structures. We don't want any accessory structures, end of story. I don't believe it has been end of story. I think it's been ongoing. We've tried to... But I'm saying there hasn't been any... Can you make this smaller or move this? It's just no? Is that... Correct. The way the deeds are written... No, I'm not asking about the deeds. I'm asking about the discussion with the HOA. Have you had any discussion with the HOA? Mildly, or I would say mildly. Okay, and what was the substance of those discussions? Did they actually modify anything? They haven't... Smaller? It's not... It's not a no, but it is that we have a strict policy against detached structures, and I think Rich has had a well meeting with the HOA. All right, so I'll open public hearing. We'll get it, because I mean, our ordinance is not the same as the HOA, so. All right. What's that? We don't need to go through design or anything, the layout. I'd like to see it just a little bit. Okay, you're right. So the structure is 21 foot wide by 39 foot in length. It is a Douglas fir timber structure. The fireplace and the kitchen area will be built out of, to be determined on the size of stone and brick with limestone that will conform to the general nature of the home. It is at least 10 feet away from the house. It conforms with all setback limits. It will be open air, so there's no dividing walls, other than the fireplace, that's blocking image, that's blocking views from any kind of site lines. It is all in the backyard that it's running alongside of the side of the house, the north, most north side of the house. We are raising elevation to help with drainage. looking at various deployments toridge and the заes. But things canВalculate should observe the files to average. We have to collar group meetings. Thank you. And I'll host Unlock by Ben. Yeah.

  126. is not the same as the HOA, so. All right. What's that? We don't need to go through design or anything, the layout. I'd like to see it just a little bit. Okay, you're right. So the structure is 21 foot wide by 39 foot in length. It is a Douglas fir timber structure. The fireplace and the kitchen area will be built out of, to be determined on the size of stone and brick with limestone that will conform to the general nature of the home. It is at least 10 feet away from the house. It conforms with all setback limits. It will be open air, so there's no dividing walls, other than the fireplace, that's blocking image, that's blocking views from any kind of site lines. It is all in the backyard that it's running alongside of the side of the house, the north, most north side of the house. We are raising elevation to help with drainage. looking at various deployments toridge and the заes. But things canВalculate should observe the files to average. We have to collar group meetings. Thank you. And I'll host Unlock by Ben. Yeah. usability of the backyard there will be a prefab hot tub that is off to the west of the pergola outside of the pergola and all of the landscape material will be done by by dual itself so what's the size of the lot three-quarters of an acre what's the height at the peak of the wooden structure the of the peak of the ridge yeah fifteen foot seven fifteen what fifteen foot seven inches you're saying to the chimney is to the eighteen it's an eighteen feet yeah okay yeah that's all I was asking you was there any discussion could you lower the chimney or bring the roof down there we are open to those I'm saying there isn't any discussion with the HOA on that no okay any other questions from the board so I'm just saying I just wondered if there's any dialogue back and forth I'll open this to the public anyone hear from them okay

  127. usability of the backyard there will be a prefab hot tub that is off to the west of the pergola outside of the pergola and all of the landscape material will be done by by dual itself so what's the size of the lot three-quarters of an acre what's the height at the peak of the wooden structure the of the peak of the ridge yeah fifteen foot seven fifteen what fifteen foot seven inches you're saying to the chimney is to the eighteen it's an eighteen feet yeah okay yeah that's all I was asking you was there any discussion could you lower the chimney or bring the roof down there we are open to those I'm saying there isn't any discussion with the HOA on that no okay any other questions from the board so I'm just saying I just wondered if there's any dialogue back and forth I'll open this to the public anyone hear from them okay hello my name is Suzanne Quinlan commit and I reside at eight six six rock spring road in hickory heights the same neighborhood as dr ruffini and his wife i've lived in hickory heights for 13 years and have known the ruffinis for almost that long i can assure you they take good care of their home and property they've made many improvements to their home on the inside which i assume increases their property value presumably this new project would do the same they have a very large and very private yard i've never even seen the people on the other side of that line of trees that's going to be blocking the purva i also did an ai search regarding this issue which said that covered patios and outdoor kitchens remain highly sought after designers report that over 78 percent of homeowners want a seamless indoor outdoor transition with covered patios outdoor transit or with covered patios cited as a top feature by experts you know ai consulted with us before they gave that answer

  128. forth I'll open this to the public anyone hear from them okay hello my name is Suzanne Quinlan commit and I reside at eight six six rock spring road in hickory heights the same neighborhood as dr ruffini and his wife i've lived in hickory heights for 13 years and have known the ruffinis for almost that long i can assure you they take good care of their home and property they've made many improvements to their home on the inside which i assume increases their property value presumably this new project would do the same they have a very large and very private yard i've never even seen the people on the other side of that line of trees that's going to be blocking the purva i also did an ai search regarding this issue which said that covered patios and outdoor kitchens remain highly sought after designers report that over 78 percent of homeowners want a seamless indoor outdoor transition with covered patios outdoor transit or with covered patios cited as a top feature by experts you know ai consulted with us before they gave that answer that's what our experience has been is people like outdoor stuff yes and the main reason for this continued popularity is extended usability so especially in michigan you can use it in any kind of weather except maybe extreme snowy weather um since this is a current trend uh it would likely be extreme snowy weather um since this is a current trend uh it would likely increase the property and only sale value of their home and in my opinion would also modernize the property and subsequently better the neighborhood so i would say this project is an asset to the township and should be approved thank you very much and thank you for your patience does anyone else like to speak what's that a couple hours good evening hi my name is chris costas i'm also a resident at hickory heights civil engineer by trade i'm a licensed pe as well and i have to appreciate the board's patience and knowledge of the ordinances i've seen a lot of great layouts today and some

  129. cited as a top feature by experts you know ai consulted with us before they gave that answer that's what our experience has been is people like outdoor stuff yes and the main reason for this continued popularity is extended usability so especially in michigan you can use it in any kind of weather except maybe extreme snowy weather um since this is a current trend uh it would likely be extreme snowy weather um since this is a current trend uh it would likely increase the property and only sale value of their home and in my opinion would also modernize the property and subsequently better the neighborhood so i would say this project is an asset to the township and should be approved thank you very much and thank you for your patience does anyone else like to speak what's that a couple hours good evening hi my name is chris costas i'm also a resident at hickory heights civil engineer by trade i'm a licensed pe as well and i have to appreciate the board's patience and knowledge of the ordinances i've seen a lot of great layouts today and some social sketches so applying all your knowledge to some of this and making sense out of it is uh something else but as you can see here though i think this is a well thought out plan uh seen a lot of architectural uh civil or even landscape stuff through my career and uh i think this one's a pretty well thought out i am familiar with this space over here and i do also believe like susie says enhances your experience in this area i think uh rafini's have done a great job with the existing space and this would be a great addition to that thanks very much okay you you you you you Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this? Good evening. I hope I can be understood as much as my voice is getting a little old for the evening. Anyway, my name is Don Frye. I also live in Hickory Heights. I'm on the board of the HOA.

  130. patience and knowledge of the ordinances i've seen a lot of great layouts today and some social sketches so applying all your knowledge to some of this and making sense out of it is uh something else but as you can see here though i think this is a well thought out plan uh seen a lot of architectural uh civil or even landscape stuff through my career and uh i think this one's a pretty well thought out i am familiar with this space over here and i do also believe like susie says enhances your experience in this area i think uh rafini's have done a great job with the existing space and this would be a great addition to that thanks very much okay you you you you you Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this? Good evening. I hope I can be understood as much as my voice is getting a little old for the evening. Anyway, my name is Don Frye. I also live in Hickory Heights. I'm on the board of the HOA. I'm also serving as the architectural liaison. And while I agree that it is a wonderful-looking space from a design standpoint, frankly, it is, from our perspective and from within our deed restrictions, basically attached to the title, to the property, it is not permitted. It's a great idea. I just don't think that it's quite the neighborhood to put this in. And it certainly is, regardless of what the additional findings suggest, it is unique in the neighborhood. There is nothing of this size or scope existing in the neighborhood. There are pool houses. There are some freestanding pergolas, most of which were installed without permits and without permission. And there is one other pergola that is actually attached to the back of the house. To the back of the house, please! Do you yüz, please. which, therefore, removes it from being an accessory structure. Thank you very much. Thank you. Does anyone else like to speak?

  131. Anyway, my name is Don Frye. I also live in Hickory Heights. I'm on the board of the HOA. I'm also serving as the architectural liaison. And while I agree that it is a wonderful-looking space from a design standpoint, frankly, it is, from our perspective and from within our deed restrictions, basically attached to the title, to the property, it is not permitted. It's a great idea. I just don't think that it's quite the neighborhood to put this in. And it certainly is, regardless of what the additional findings suggest, it is unique in the neighborhood. There is nothing of this size or scope existing in the neighborhood. There are pool houses. There are some freestanding pergolas, most of which were installed without permits and without permission. And there is one other pergola that is actually attached to the back of the house. To the back of the house, please! Do you yüz, please. which, therefore, removes it from being an accessory structure. Thank you very much. Thank you. Does anyone else like to speak? Hi. My name is Stephen Aboud, 701 Hickory Heights. I am the president of the HOA, and I want to address two things real quick. There has been a very long email chain between the builder and ourselves about this particular plan. We are here to object to the variance requested for the accessory structure proposed at the Mill Spring Road and to ask the board to deny it. I'm going to try to explain it as plainly as I can. Hickory Heights is governed by recorded deed restrictions. Those are not informal guidelines. They are recorded in the Oakland County records. They were formally preserved by a notice recorded on March 24th, or March 2024, under Michigan's Markable Record Title Act. They are current, and they are enforceable against every lot in the subdivision. Those restrictions are specific about what may be built. They allow one single-family dwelling, a garage, and a fence. And then they say in plain words that no structure other than the dwelling and the garage shall be erected, except a fence. Good looking for a new house to open to a house. I must open the house. The room for 24th, over 24th, over 24th, over 24th, over 24th, over 65th, over 25th, over 27th percent.

  132. Hi. My name is Stephen Aboud, 701 Hickory Heights. I am the president of the HOA, and I want to address two things real quick. There has been a very long email chain between the builder and ourselves about this particular plan. We are here to object to the variance requested for the accessory structure proposed at the Mill Spring Road and to ask the board to deny it. I'm going to try to explain it as plainly as I can. Hickory Heights is governed by recorded deed restrictions. Those are not informal guidelines. They are recorded in the Oakland County records. They were formally preserved by a notice recorded on March 24th, or March 2024, under Michigan's Markable Record Title Act. They are current, and they are enforceable against every lot in the subdivision. Those restrictions are specific about what may be built. They allow one single-family dwelling, a garage, and a fence. And then they say in plain words that no structure other than the dwelling and the garage shall be erected, except a fence. Good looking for a new house to open to a house. I must open the house. The room for 24th, over 24th, over 24th, over 24th, over 24th, over 65th, over 25th, over 27th percent. By naming a garage and a fence, it's the only addition, it closes a circle. A detached pavilion is not inside that circle. The restrictions also require something else before any structure is built. The owner must submit plans, receive the association's written for approval. That approval has not been given here. Now what is actually proposed, the plan shows a detached open-air pavilion, roughly 39 by 21 feet, standing on a masonry columns with full height, stone fireplace, chimney, mounted television, complete outdoor kitchen, and a spa. That is not a patio, that is a building. Consider the scale. This structure is three times larger than anything you guys have seen tonight, alone. And it adds, sorry, it's a massive overbuild in a residential area. The owner intends to add fans and heaters so he can use it for three seasons out of the year. The detail tells you what it really is. A patio does not need heaters. It doesn't need roof, column, condition, three-season space as a building meant to be lived in. If the owner wants year-round condition space of this size, the honest way to build it is

  133. By naming a garage and a fence, it's the only addition, it closes a circle. A detached pavilion is not inside that circle. The restrictions also require something else before any structure is built. The owner must submit plans, receive the association's written for approval. That approval has not been given here. Now what is actually proposed, the plan shows a detached open-air pavilion, roughly 39 by 21 feet, standing on a masonry columns with full height, stone fireplace, chimney, mounted television, complete outdoor kitchen, and a spa. That is not a patio, that is a building. Consider the scale. This structure is three times larger than anything you guys have seen tonight, alone. And it adds, sorry, it's a massive overbuild in a residential area. The owner intends to add fans and heaters so he can use it for three seasons out of the year. The detail tells you what it really is. A patio does not need heaters. It doesn't need roof, column, condition, three-season space as a building meant to be lived in. If the owner wants year-round condition space of this size, the honest way to build it is part of a house, a new wing enclosed with windows or sliding doors that you walk through, not an oversized accessory dropped in the yard. Framed either way, it's a building and our restrictions permit. only the dwelling and the garage and a fence. I want to be fair to the owner. We are not opposed to him improving his property. We tried to find a path forward. There's a long email chain that said that. I told him directly, make it a hardscape, a patio, add grade, outdoor kitchen, fire pit. You do not have, if you do that, you don't have any issues with us. But the board cannot approve are the columns and the chimney and the fireplace and the TV stand. We can't do that. Even when asked, could you put an awning over it? He said no. That wouldn't work. Also, he says that a large structure like this is going to raise property values and make the neighborhood more desirable. With respect, the value of Hickory Heights comes from the restrictions being applied evenly every lot, every year, after year. The board is not here to judge everyone's tastes. We're only here to apply the same rules to this lot that bind every other homeowner.

  134. If the owner wants year-round condition space of this size, the honest way to build it is part of a house, a new wing enclosed with windows or sliding doors that you walk through, not an oversized accessory dropped in the yard. Framed either way, it's a building and our restrictions permit. only the dwelling and the garage and a fence. I want to be fair to the owner. We are not opposed to him improving his property. We tried to find a path forward. There's a long email chain that said that. I told him directly, make it a hardscape, a patio, add grade, outdoor kitchen, fire pit. You do not have, if you do that, you don't have any issues with us. But the board cannot approve are the columns and the chimney and the fireplace and the TV stand. We can't do that. Even when asked, could you put an awning over it? He said no. That wouldn't work. Also, he says that a large structure like this is going to raise property values and make the neighborhood more desirable. With respect, the value of Hickory Heights comes from the restrictions being applied evenly every lot, every year, after year. The board is not here to judge everyone's tastes. We're only here to apply the same rules to this lot that bind every other homeowner. That's why this mattered. That's why it matters in this decision. A variance addresses the township's ordinances. It does not and cannot override a private deed restriction. If this board grants the variance, it will not make the structure permissible. It will only have the homeowner a township permit for something that the covenants prohibit and place him in direct conflict with his own association. Denying a variance avoids that. Finally, consistency. a comparable detached structure was proposed elsewhere in hickory heights the association did not approve it and this board denied it after neighbors objected the same reasoning applies here for all these reasons the board of directors and the property owners of hickory heights respectfully ask you to deny the variance thank you for your time i'm glad to answer any question so is is so there's a back and forth on this so is the objection that it's an accessory structure oh yeah so it's yeah and so if it was attached to the house so if it's that that size and was attached to the house would it be okay it it wouldn't be an accessory structure i'm not going to say it's going to be okay so but i'm just trying to understand what your objection

  135. tastes. We're only here to apply the same rules to this lot that bind every other homeowner. That's why this mattered. That's why it matters in this decision. A variance addresses the township's ordinances. It does not and cannot override a private deed restriction. If this board grants the variance, it will not make the structure permissible. It will only have the homeowner a township permit for something that the covenants prohibit and place him in direct conflict with his own association. Denying a variance avoids that. Finally, consistency. a comparable detached structure was proposed elsewhere in hickory heights the association did not approve it and this board denied it after neighbors objected the same reasoning applies here for all these reasons the board of directors and the property owners of hickory heights respectfully ask you to deny the variance thank you for your time i'm glad to answer any question so is is so there's a back and forth on this so is the objection that it's an accessory structure oh yeah so it's yeah and so if it was attached to the house so if it's that that size and was attached to the house would it be okay it it wouldn't be an accessory structure i'm not going to say it's going to be okay so but i'm just trying to understand what your objection your objection is to the scale of it but only because it's not attached to the house right i mean you attach it to the house it's not an accessory structure then it becomes a wing of the house right right okay thanks is there anybody else would like to speak good evening board my name is sean hermes i live directly to the east of uh mr dr ruffini my address is 3884 mil spring i am the closest uh property physical uh geographically to the house where this is being built is is is is is Thank you. Let me see. If you see where the outline in black, I'm directly kind of southeast. Nobody has a better view of the backyard area of the Rafini residents than I do or my family does. I wholeheartedly disagree with everything the association said. I think they're overly political. I think they pick and choose who they approve and don't approve. When they said this is a unique structure, they're incorrect. There are plenty of structures throughout the neighborhoods that have large structures in the back of them.

  136. i'm not going to say it's going to be okay so but i'm just trying to understand what your objection your objection is to the scale of it but only because it's not attached to the house right i mean you attach it to the house it's not an accessory structure then it becomes a wing of the house right right okay thanks is there anybody else would like to speak good evening board my name is sean hermes i live directly to the east of uh mr dr ruffini my address is 3884 mil spring i am the closest uh property physical uh geographically to the house where this is being built is is is is is Thank you. Let me see. If you see where the outline in black, I'm directly kind of southeast. Nobody has a better view of the backyard area of the Rafini residents than I do or my family does. I wholeheartedly disagree with everything the association said. I think they're overly political. I think they pick and choose who they approve and don't approve. When they said this is a unique structure, they're incorrect. There are plenty of structures throughout the neighborhoods that have large structures in the back of them. They said that it doesn't add the property value. The only thing that increases the property value is following their rules. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry. That is an absolute silly thing to say. Mr. Rafini keeps his property in better condition than any other neighbor that I have. Building this structure will increase his property value. My property value and all the property values around the neighborhood. I ask that you guys approve this. And I understand that the HOA has certain rules that have to be followed. Your approval would only allow us to, well, us or Mr. Rafini. I am an attorney, by the way, so I would gladly challenge the HOA's legality on this matter if you guys were to approve this. I think you guys should approve it. Like I said before. there's plenty of structures around the neighborhood like this and I think that this is being denied for all the wrong reasons the only other objection besides from the HOA that I'm aware of is one of the neighbors claiming that they're

  137. There are plenty of structures throughout the neighborhoods that have large structures in the back of them. They said that it doesn't add the property value. The only thing that increases the property value is following their rules. That's ridiculous. I'm sorry. That is an absolute silly thing to say. Mr. Rafini keeps his property in better condition than any other neighbor that I have. Building this structure will increase his property value. My property value and all the property values around the neighborhood. I ask that you guys approve this. And I understand that the HOA has certain rules that have to be followed. Your approval would only allow us to, well, us or Mr. Rafini. I am an attorney, by the way, so I would gladly challenge the HOA's legality on this matter if you guys were to approve this. I think you guys should approve it. Like I said before. there's plenty of structures around the neighborhood like this and I think that this is being denied for all the wrong reasons the only other objection besides from the HOA that I'm aware of is one of the neighbors claiming that they're worried about smoke but from what I saw was that this is an 18 foot request rather than 14 I'm not a physics major of any kind but what I do know is that heat rises smoke rises because it's less dense than the air around it so if this were to be 14 feet that would I would think become a problem because windows especially on a two-story house are generally around 16 to 18 feet in height especially if the house itself is about 20 feet high so I don't think that's much of a concern with that said I I strongly encourage this board to approve this and I can answer any questions you guys might have I have one you had mentioned that there are several such structures in the neighborhood use are you saying that there are several such structures of the similar size of a pergola but is that what you're saying are you saying that there's several accessory structures that are detached in the neighborhood I just want clarification yeah no absolutely so without actually going in somebody's backyard and measuring things out I can't say the exact size but if you drive through the neighborhood there's plenty that are visible that you can see I get that they're supposed to not be visible

  138. from the HOA that I'm aware of is one of the neighbors claiming that they're worried about smoke but from what I saw was that this is an 18 foot request rather than 14 I'm not a physics major of any kind but what I do know is that heat rises smoke rises because it's less dense than the air around it so if this were to be 14 feet that would I would think become a problem because windows especially on a two-story house are generally around 16 to 18 feet in height especially if the house itself is about 20 feet high so I don't think that's much of a concern with that said I I strongly encourage this board to approve this and I can answer any questions you guys might have I have one you had mentioned that there are several such structures in the neighborhood use are you saying that there are several such structures of the similar size of a pergola but is that what you're saying are you saying that there's several accessory structures that are detached in the neighborhood I just want clarification yeah no absolutely so without actually going in somebody's backyard and measuring things out I can't say the exact size but if you drive through the neighborhood there's plenty that are visible that you can see I get that they're supposed to not be visible but some of them are. And if you drive through the neighborhood you can look like but there are other accessory structures that don't seem to be attached to properties in other people's backyards. And I've only seen them by driving through neighborhoods not that I'm going around looking for them. So yeah. I have a question for the speaker. So you said that you're probably the closest neighbor to him. Do you think from a visual perspective this is going to be an annoying sight to anybody around the neighborhood? I mean are they going to be seeing this all the time and it's going to be in their face? And I don't think so. If you guys want if you guys are able to pull up really I know they're putting something on the screen but if you're able to pull up the point. We live on a cul-de-sac and it's very very very difficult to see each other's backyard. So if you notice lines of sight are not very you know the other neighbors right there. There are and you know there's a lot there's I mean we were talking about 10 or 15 feet of large trees here all throughout here. This neighbor here has like 30 I'm guessing about 25-30 feet high arborvary. Arborvary is if I'm saying it correctly.

  139. but some of them are. And if you drive through the neighborhood you can look like but there are other accessory structures that don't seem to be attached to properties in other people's backyards. And I've only seen them by driving through neighborhoods not that I'm going around looking for them. So yeah. I have a question for the speaker. So you said that you're probably the closest neighbor to him. Do you think from a visual perspective this is going to be an annoying sight to anybody around the neighborhood? I mean are they going to be seeing this all the time and it's going to be in their face? And I don't think so. If you guys want if you guys are able to pull up really I know they're putting something on the screen but if you're able to pull up the point. We live on a cul-de-sac and it's very very very difficult to see each other's backyard. So if you notice lines of sight are not very you know the other neighbors right there. There are and you know there's a lot there's I mean we were talking about 10 or 15 feet of large trees here all throughout here. This neighbor here has like 30 I'm guessing about 25-30 feet high arborvary. Arborvary is if I'm saying it correctly. There's trees all around this property line right here. So the only really risk of any... seeing would be me, which I have zero objection to, I don't care if I see it or not, potentially this house, but I would think that would easily be fixed by putting up some, you know, additional carpet ladies. So, no, I don't think anyone would see it. There's, like I said, there's trees all over here. In fact, Mr. Dini's children and my children, or what house? Oh, I'm sorry. That's my house right here. Sorry. I was pointing through on one of them. Sorry. This house and that house, I apologize. So, let me go backwards and say that there's, our providers are right here. Those 25-foot ones are right over here. There's some trees right over here, and there's basically trees all around, all going all across this property line as well. And our, my children, his, Mr. Dini's son, actually, you know, built like a little, it's like a little area where they kind of go into a little forest area, where they kind of like, maybe a little camp type of thing. There's no structure there or anything, but they'll take, like, you know, little, you know, little tools and stuff like that there, and you can't even see each other

  140. has like 30 I'm guessing about 25-30 feet high arborvary. Arborvary is if I'm saying it correctly. There's trees all around this property line right here. So the only really risk of any... seeing would be me, which I have zero objection to, I don't care if I see it or not, potentially this house, but I would think that would easily be fixed by putting up some, you know, additional carpet ladies. So, no, I don't think anyone would see it. There's, like I said, there's trees all over here. In fact, Mr. Dini's children and my children, or what house? Oh, I'm sorry. That's my house right here. Sorry. I was pointing through on one of them. Sorry. This house and that house, I apologize. So, let me go backwards and say that there's, our providers are right here. Those 25-foot ones are right over here. There's some trees right over here, and there's basically trees all around, all going all across this property line as well. And our, my children, his, Mr. Dini's son, actually, you know, built like a little, it's like a little area where they kind of go into a little forest area, where they kind of like, maybe a little camp type of thing. There's no structure there or anything, but they'll take, like, you know, little, you know, little tools and stuff like that there, and you can't even see each other through the neighbors. So, no, it's going to be very difficult for anybody to see, especially if they, you know, fix, you know, or put something up on that top part of the line between 3840 and 3886. Thanks very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak? So, I'm going to close the public hearing. And you can... you for your comments you can step away so i'm sorry that i've closed public hearing so i'm i'm sorry so i'd like to have a response from the so obviously we're asking for the zba's approval um thank you for your time i i do want to just be candid about the scale um it is a large um accessory structure any smaller so i was just saying you know 18 foot high pavilion we've done bigger um smaller however i know it's drawn a lot of negative i know it's drawn a lot of negative attention um but we don't see that size alone um is a factor to say no right so i'm just asking you

  141. little, you know, little tools and stuff like that there, and you can't even see each other through the neighbors. So, no, it's going to be very difficult for anybody to see, especially if they, you know, fix, you know, or put something up on that top part of the line between 3840 and 3886. Thanks very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak? So, I'm going to close the public hearing. And you can... you for your comments you can step away so i'm sorry that i've closed public hearing so i'm i'm sorry so i'd like to have a response from the so obviously we're asking for the zba's approval um thank you for your time i i do want to just be candid about the scale um it is a large um accessory structure any smaller so i was just saying you know 18 foot high pavilion we've done bigger um smaller however i know it's drawn a lot of negative i know it's drawn a lot of negative attention um but we don't see that size alone um is a factor to say no right so i'm just asking you is there is there any way to maybe reduce the size of the pavilion so it's 18 feet high do you need 18 feet so i'm going to squeeze yeah yeah i get it so um what did those this is 21 by 39 by 18. that's that's the height of the fireplace it's not the height of the ridge okay high of the ridge is 15 7. um the current arbor vitae blocking the the house to the north they're 20 22 22 20 feet high side of that graph we'll be bringing in additional our variety that are at least 16 18 feet in height and we'll grow with it we'll match the 20 within a year and the 20s only will continue the only way to make it smaller but the chimney small would be to convert to gas and lower the chimney invented out this side of the fireplace so but you don't know if there's any

  142. attention um but we don't see that size alone um is a factor to say no right so i'm just asking you is there is there any way to maybe reduce the size of the pavilion so it's 18 feet high do you need 18 feet so i'm going to squeeze yeah yeah i get it so um what did those this is 21 by 39 by 18. that's that's the height of the fireplace it's not the height of the ridge okay high of the ridge is 15 7. um the current arbor vitae blocking the the house to the north they're 20 22 22 20 feet high side of that graph we'll be bringing in additional our variety that are at least 16 18 feet in height and we'll grow with it we'll match the 20 within a year and the 20s only will continue the only way to make it smaller but the chimney small would be to convert to gas and lower the chimney invented out this side of the fireplace so but you don't know if there's any negotiability on the part of your client like you know 15 about 12 feet I mean that's two to two times the height of the peak of the ridge yeah so because the timbers the way they're engineered they're roughly 15 to 16 inches in depth so we need this and we obviously you care about watershed and the condition of a roof and the longevity of the structure so it is a 612 pitch and to support the weight of those trusses we those timber trusses we need that we need that height like I said we can reduce the height of the chimney to cap it at the ridge and convert the gas and you were able to direct vent it out to the back of the fireplace instead of going up to the top well therefore you don't need to you don't need the two-foot clearance on top and on the height we only have Chimney has to be two feet above the roof line. Yeah. All right, so repeat that again. Would be to not have the chimney extend two feet above and go to a gas fireplace and vent the gas fireplace out the side of the...

  143. side of the fireplace so but you don't know if there's any negotiability on the part of your client like you know 15 about 12 feet I mean that's two to two times the height of the peak of the ridge yeah so because the timbers the way they're engineered they're roughly 15 to 16 inches in depth so we need this and we obviously you care about watershed and the condition of a roof and the longevity of the structure so it is a 612 pitch and to support the weight of those trusses we those timber trusses we need that we need that height like I said we can reduce the height of the chimney to cap it at the ridge and convert the gas and you were able to direct vent it out to the back of the fireplace instead of going up to the top well therefore you don't need to you don't need the two-foot clearance on top and on the height we only have Chimney has to be two feet above the roof line. Yeah. All right, so repeat that again. Would be to not have the chimney extend two feet above and go to a gas fireplace and vent the gas fireplace out the side of the... The side of the fireplace. So what would the height of the chimney be? Which would allow us to reduce the height of the chimney to the cabinet at the ridge. So are you proposing that? Could you do that? Okay. Okay. So how tall would it be then? 17-7 to the top of the ridge. Which is indicated on the plan. No, sorry. I thought the top of the ridge was shorter than that. 15-7. 15-7. So the ridge would stay the same, you're talking, but the... Correct, because we do want to... I mean, you have eight-foot clearance from when you walk on the patio deck into the lanai or the pergola itself. And we'd like to keep that eight-foot-six. Rich, Dr. Ruffini is a tall guy. So these pillars that are holding up the roof structure right here, those pillars, they can't be shorter and still support the roof? They can be shorter. I mean, maybe six inches. Eight feet is what you want to keep as an opening to enter. And I mean, think of your living room. You don't have anything lower than eight feet normally. So, I mean, we could...

  144. and go to a gas fireplace and vent the gas fireplace out the side of the... The side of the fireplace. So what would the height of the chimney be? Which would allow us to reduce the height of the chimney to the cabinet at the ridge. So are you proposing that? Could you do that? Okay. Okay. So how tall would it be then? 17-7 to the top of the ridge. Which is indicated on the plan. No, sorry. I thought the top of the ridge was shorter than that. 15-7. 15-7. So the ridge would stay the same, you're talking, but the... Correct, because we do want to... I mean, you have eight-foot clearance from when you walk on the patio deck into the lanai or the pergola itself. And we'd like to keep that eight-foot-six. Rich, Dr. Ruffini is a tall guy. So these pillars that are holding up the roof structure right here, those pillars, they can't be shorter and still support the roof? They can be shorter. I mean, maybe six inches. Eight feet is what you want to keep as an opening to enter. And I mean, think of your living room. You don't have anything lower than eight feet normally. So, I mean, we could... potentially getting six inches. Explain again to me why you have to have the pitch the way it is. It's the way the timbers are constructed because of the weight of them and the webbing. Well, it's also a very large structure. If you're talking 21 by 39, right? So the roof, I mean, it's quite a... It's a very heavy, I mean, just being timbers, each one is thousands of pounds. Was there ever any consideration to attach it to the house? We have not thought about that yet. Okay. Just curious. Well, the only downside from that from construction... There are other structures in the township that are, you know, I just want to say similar in size, but have been attached to the house. Just, I've just, you know, I have a hard time blatantly going against the deed. I mean, I'm trying to work with you, trying to get, you deserve to be able to use your property the way you want to. But also, it's hard for me to go against an HOA's and the whole deed stuff. If you're able to get something that you want and work within some degree of what's out there, I mean, we can give, you can give something. Hopefully, you'll come up with something that you're happy with.

  145. potentially getting six inches. Explain again to me why you have to have the pitch the way it is. It's the way the timbers are constructed because of the weight of them and the webbing. Well, it's also a very large structure. If you're talking 21 by 39, right? So the roof, I mean, it's quite a... It's a very heavy, I mean, just being timbers, each one is thousands of pounds. Was there ever any consideration to attach it to the house? We have not thought about that yet. Okay. Just curious. Well, the only downside from that from construction... There are other structures in the township that are, you know, I just want to say similar in size, but have been attached to the house. Just, I've just, you know, I have a hard time blatantly going against the deed. I mean, I'm trying to work with you, trying to get, you deserve to be able to use your property the way you want to. But also, it's hard for me to go against an HOA's and the whole deed stuff. If you're able to get something that you want and work within some degree of what's out there, I mean, we can give, you can give something. Hopefully, you'll come up with something that you're happy with. Sure. I understand that. And thank you for your comments. Do we have pictures of our supporting alert showing the vegetation in the back of the house? So, while he's looking for that, you know, just for, um... clarity sake I mean this isn't Washington we don't want it to be Washington we'd like everybody to just get along and respect one another the ability to use your property but also be considerate of your neighbors I mean that's what we're really looking for here and I totally agree and I hope and pray for the same the the only downside attaching to the houses I we're trying to find an image of the back is attaching the house would require extensive construction to the home itself replacing the slope of the roof that it's kind of the overhang that comes off of the first that comes off of the the two-foot overhang and then he has three windows that support his kids bedroom so it'd be an obstruction to the windows yeah he wants outdoor living space he's got the means or wants this space because it fits yeah it's larger you know and I will say we've had a lot of deed restrictions come in front of us I don't

  146. you're happy with. Sure. I understand that. And thank you for your comments. Do we have pictures of our supporting alert showing the vegetation in the back of the house? So, while he's looking for that, you know, just for, um... clarity sake I mean this isn't Washington we don't want it to be Washington we'd like everybody to just get along and respect one another the ability to use your property but also be considerate of your neighbors I mean that's what we're really looking for here and I totally agree and I hope and pray for the same the the only downside attaching to the houses I we're trying to find an image of the back is attaching the house would require extensive construction to the home itself replacing the slope of the roof that it's kind of the overhang that comes off of the first that comes off of the the two-foot overhang and then he has three windows that support his kids bedroom so it'd be an obstruction to the windows yeah he wants outdoor living space he's got the means or wants this space because it fits yeah it's larger you know and I will say we've had a lot of deed restrictions come in front of us I don't think I've ever heard of one that prohibits all accessory structures so it's attached it's pretty it's pretty restrictive yet we've had you know sheds restricted we've had you know certain height restrictions no basketball hoops we've never had one that absolutely prohibits accessory structures which we allow I mean we have an ordinance and a process for doing that and then we have larger space so I'm you know I wish that they would be able to come out with some sort of compromise. I'm sure. He'd have a much easier time of proving it if we knew that we had consensus. Yeah. Well, that's why I was asking. I don't know what the exchange was. It's, you know, the president of the association, you know, said there was some dialogue on it, but I don't know if it was like, because believe me, I've been involved in a lot of negotiations over my career, you know, proposal A is here and the other proposal is here and they're really not that close. I don't know if there was much effort to sort of get. There was an ask for permission and just an ask for clarity on, you know, on my end for the restrictions. And each of his emails, he kind of ended it with, let's see here.

  147. will say we've had a lot of deed restrictions come in front of us I don't think I've ever heard of one that prohibits all accessory structures so it's attached it's pretty it's pretty restrictive yet we've had you know sheds restricted we've had you know certain height restrictions no basketball hoops we've never had one that absolutely prohibits accessory structures which we allow I mean we have an ordinance and a process for doing that and then we have larger space so I'm you know I wish that they would be able to come out with some sort of compromise. I'm sure. He'd have a much easier time of proving it if we knew that we had consensus. Yeah. Well, that's why I was asking. I don't know what the exchange was. It's, you know, the president of the association, you know, said there was some dialogue on it, but I don't know if it was like, because believe me, I've been involved in a lot of negotiations over my career, you know, proposal A is here and the other proposal is here and they're really not that close. I don't know if there was much effort to sort of get. There was an ask for permission and just an ask for clarity on, you know, on my end for the restrictions. And each of his emails, he kind of ended it with, let's see here. Because I'll just say I don't feel an obligation to help the association enforce its restrictions at the same time. The scale of this is pretty big. That's all. So those are sort of two observations I'd share with you in trying to make this work. And I, you know, I don't want to build it for you. I don't want to, you know, if you're saying, and the comment was, it was connected, you know, no, no objection, which seems now you're not really objecting to the scale of it because it's, you're just, you know, it's not that far away from the house, but it's, but it's, it's then kind of going back to want to make sure that. The world. Thank you. the restrictions are enforced, so. Is this something where we would table it and then give them the opportunity to do this? I don't know if, I don't know if, here's what I'd say, because you're here, I'll just give you this, and the President's here, if you, we're gonna take another matter. You guys go out and talk in the hall. If there's any hope of further dialogue, maybe we'll do it, but tell us what progress you make. So why don't we postpone this to the end of the hearing?

  148. And each of his emails, he kind of ended it with, let's see here. Because I'll just say I don't feel an obligation to help the association enforce its restrictions at the same time. The scale of this is pretty big. That's all. So those are sort of two observations I'd share with you in trying to make this work. And I, you know, I don't want to build it for you. I don't want to, you know, if you're saying, and the comment was, it was connected, you know, no, no objection, which seems now you're not really objecting to the scale of it because it's, you're just, you know, it's not that far away from the house, but it's, but it's, it's then kind of going back to want to make sure that. The world. Thank you. the restrictions are enforced, so. Is this something where we would table it and then give them the opportunity to do this? I don't know if, I don't know if, here's what I'd say, because you're here, I'll just give you this, and the President's here, if you, we're gonna take another matter. You guys go out and talk in the hall. If there's any hope of further dialogue, maybe we'll do it, but tell us what progress you make. So why don't we postpone this to the end of the hearing? Let him talk now, because I don't know that there's a good foundation here, but. And I agree with you. I mean, in each of his emails, his lengthy emails to me, you know, it states, you know, nothing has meant, nothing of this is meant to close off a conversation. So he's been, you know, very, you know, welcome to input. It's just, it seems to be that the deed restriction in their view, you know, circumvents the townships. Right, because if the position is and you can't have an accessory structure, then your only option would be to attach it, which I don't know that. Which makes things more expensive. Yeah, would you say you don't want to do that? And one note on attaching it, the square footage and scale of the whole thing is appropriate for the township and comply with lock coverage and square footage of the house and regulations of coverage in the rear yard specifically. So in terms of scale, it is appropriate for the size of the lock. That's a good point. So it's just scale as interpretation. Yeah, right. For this specific. that's going to be the mid to the high inches. It's going to be the largest form of the low inches in the middle though. Well, yeah, in the neighborhood that you're in and everything that surrounds it, which isn't, I mean, if you look at it, he backs up to Squirrel Road. He is on a cul-de-sac. You know, I mean, there's. And there's many projects in the township that dwarves the scale of this home and property. I've worked on many of them. I've gotten, we've got a purpose.

  149. So why don't we postpone this to the end of the hearing? Let him talk now, because I don't know that there's a good foundation here, but. And I agree with you. I mean, in each of his emails, his lengthy emails to me, you know, it states, you know, nothing has meant, nothing of this is meant to close off a conversation. So he's been, you know, very, you know, welcome to input. It's just, it seems to be that the deed restriction in their view, you know, circumvents the townships. Right, because if the position is and you can't have an accessory structure, then your only option would be to attach it, which I don't know that. Which makes things more expensive. Yeah, would you say you don't want to do that? And one note on attaching it, the square footage and scale of the whole thing is appropriate for the township and comply with lock coverage and square footage of the house and regulations of coverage in the rear yard specifically. So in terms of scale, it is appropriate for the size of the lock. That's a good point. So it's just scale as interpretation. Yeah, right. For this specific. that's going to be the mid to the high inches. It's going to be the largest form of the low inches in the middle though. Well, yeah, in the neighborhood that you're in and everything that surrounds it, which isn't, I mean, if you look at it, he backs up to Squirrel Road. He is on a cul-de-sac. You know, I mean, there's. And there's many projects in the township that dwarves the scale of this home and property. I've worked on many of them. I've gotten, we've got a purpose. Well, I haven't seen all, I wouldn't, I don't know if there's many. And that's why I was, yeah, my memory's bad, so, you know, don't remember. As I said, the size can't, can't, you know, be the deterring factor, because it still conforms with all the townships, ordinances, and compliance, you know, rules and regulations. And that's why I want to show these pictures on the scene, because from what we could see from driving on the road, there are. I was listening to what you were going to say. And then I jumped in. He's ready to really, he's chomping at the bit to make a motion. Oh, do you want to make a motion? Do you want to make a motion? Yes, I'd like to make a motion that we defer this to the end of our meeting to allow the, an opportunity for these individuals to discuss, to see if we've got some common ground that would help us reach consensus, not only amongst themselves, but with the board to allow this to move forward or get other direction. Okay, but unless they come back, and I think we've got to make a decision tonight, unless, unless they come back with some sort of, yeah. Yeah. What's that? I guess my thought would be that I'm not sure that they'll, will know.

  150. And there's many projects in the township that dwarves the scale of this home and property. I've worked on many of them. I've gotten, we've got a purpose. Well, I haven't seen all, I wouldn't, I don't know if there's many. And that's why I was, yeah, my memory's bad, so, you know, don't remember. As I said, the size can't, can't, you know, be the deterring factor, because it still conforms with all the townships, ordinances, and compliance, you know, rules and regulations. And that's why I want to show these pictures on the scene, because from what we could see from driving on the road, there are. I was listening to what you were going to say. And then I jumped in. He's ready to really, he's chomping at the bit to make a motion. Oh, do you want to make a motion? Do you want to make a motion? Yes, I'd like to make a motion that we defer this to the end of our meeting to allow the, an opportunity for these individuals to discuss, to see if we've got some common ground that would help us reach consensus, not only amongst themselves, but with the board to allow this to move forward or get other direction. Okay, but unless they come back, and I think we've got to make a decision tonight, unless, unless they come back with some sort of, yeah. Yeah. What's that? I guess my thought would be that I'm not sure that they'll, will know. few minutes is going to address but well unless they feel like there there could be some further productive right and then we'd have to come back and make a decision one way or the other but I guess once I mean we tried this once before and it actually did work we had something that worked out so I'll let's try we'll defer this one we have a motion and so you made a motion to put it in support and we've only got two more items so it's not going to be a long discussion okay okay so we're going to first the end of the meeting and then we'll bring you back after you talk thanks that's a good idea okay okay I'm sorry all those in favor aye aye any opposed okay item 17 443 Fox River I'm the resident at 443 Fox River Drive I'm here to reach your approval for the variance of gazebo that

  151. few minutes is going to address but well unless they feel like there there could be some further productive right and then we'd have to come back and make a decision one way or the other but I guess once I mean we tried this once before and it actually did work we had something that worked out so I'll let's try we'll defer this one we have a motion and so you made a motion to put it in support and we've only got two more items so it's not going to be a long discussion okay okay so we're going to first the end of the meeting and then we'll bring you back after you talk thanks that's a good idea okay okay I'm sorry all those in favor aye aye any opposed okay item 17 443 Fox River I'm the resident at 443 Fox River Drive I'm here to reach your approval for the variance of gazebo that I've been existing for at least three years over three years I have done my best work with the zoning board by adding more trees around the existing gazebo. Those trees, within a certain period of time, they will grow at least 15 to 20 feet and also on the outside I have a berm where we have ornament grass and they will grow as far as four to six feet from the road. The structure itself kind of blends in with the home. I'm just asking you guys for approval that it will remain in place.

  152. I'm the resident at 443 Fox River Drive I'm here to reach your approval for the variance of gazebo that I've been existing for at least three years over three years I have done my best work with the zoning board by adding more trees around the existing gazebo. Those trees, within a certain period of time, they will grow at least 15 to 20 feet and also on the outside I have a berm where we have ornament grass and they will grow as far as four to six feet from the road. The structure itself kind of blends in with the home. I'm just asking you guys for approval that it will remain in place. All right. Thank you. Any questions from the board? I'll open this to the public hearing. You want to speak on this? We'll close the public hearing. So to the right of that picture, is that a sidewalk or? Hmm. Right there with the dirt. Yeah. Is that a path? No, that's a burn right there that I added some dirt to raise it up. So, because previous, I tried to put a verbite. there so wait a minute go back it wouldn't grow that picture there so i don't i'm not oriented is this where is your house then isn't that is it the gazebo that's my house right there where the gazebo is facing up like to the right to the right so the house is to the right of the picture right okay and so this this path here is is that a walking path or no the part of your property yes okay i thought that was a okay so let's go back to the uriel now okay oh i see and so the gazebo is oh i see it it's right underneath the numbers

  153. All right. Thank you. Any questions from the board? I'll open this to the public hearing. You want to speak on this? We'll close the public hearing. So to the right of that picture, is that a sidewalk or? Hmm. Right there with the dirt. Yeah. Is that a path? No, that's a burn right there that I added some dirt to raise it up. So, because previous, I tried to put a verbite. there so wait a minute go back it wouldn't grow that picture there so i don't i'm not oriented is this where is your house then isn't that is it the gazebo that's my house right there where the gazebo is facing up like to the right to the right so the house is to the right of the picture right okay and so this this path here is is that a walking path or no the part of your property yes okay i thought that was a okay so let's go back to the uriel now okay oh i see and so the gazebo is oh i see it it's right underneath the numbers is that where it is yes under the 443 oh okay okay so then you see that i got it all right that path so it faces oak brook yes it would be visible okay all right so i think we're oriented right right it's two front a lot of times you don't screen gazebos completely because they're kind of open air and he's got some screening on it okay so i think we get it so we're gonna make a motion yeah do you know the height of the earth is able just by 10 feet 10 feet anybody else have any questions i think we're ready I'll make a motion if there's no other questions. So I'll start with the permission first. In regards to the appeal at 443 Fox River Drive for the accessory structure of a gazebo located in the secondary frontage, I move that the request be an existing gazebo, I should say. I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood

  154. is that where it is yes under the 443 oh okay okay so then you see that i got it all right that path so it faces oak brook yes it would be visible okay all right so i think we're oriented right right it's two front a lot of times you don't screen gazebos completely because they're kind of open air and he's got some screening on it okay so i think we get it so we're gonna make a motion yeah do you know the height of the earth is able just by 10 feet 10 feet anybody else have any questions i think we're ready I'll make a motion if there's no other questions. So I'll start with the permission first. In regards to the appeal at 443 Fox River Drive for the accessory structure of a gazebo located in the secondary frontage, I move that the request be an existing gazebo, I should say. I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood as these types of accessory structures like gazebos attached to the home are very common. In terms of the dimensional variance, at the same location of 443 Fox River Drive for the gazebo, I also move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without it, it would prevent reasonable use of the property so he could have some shelter for outdoor entertainment. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it is somewhat screened and it is still an open-air structure. Unique circumstances of the property, he has multiple frontages, and so that does make it very unique, and because of that, it is not self-created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days because it's existing. I am not going to... to recommend additional evergreen plantings for the gazebo because he does have some plantings there and again it is a very open structure so I am not going to recommend additional screenings support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed

  155. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood as these types of accessory structures like gazebos attached to the home are very common. In terms of the dimensional variance, at the same location of 443 Fox River Drive for the gazebo, I also move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without it, it would prevent reasonable use of the property so he could have some shelter for outdoor entertainment. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it is somewhat screened and it is still an open-air structure. Unique circumstances of the property, he has multiple frontages, and so that does make it very unique, and because of that, it is not self-created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days because it's existing. I am not going to... to recommend additional evergreen plantings for the gazebo because he does have some plantings there and again it is a very open structure so I am not going to recommend additional screenings support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations request is granted so nice it's going to look even better thank you so much your neighbors love that you could still plan them that's true very nice it's going to even be better you can you even return trees i don't know oh okay item 18. have a blessed evening yes you're so patient you still have energy hi my name is katie greening i'm one of the residents at 6751 white pine court i am here to seeking approval for the permission request for existing invisible dog fence um encroaching 16 feet in to 25 feet i'm not going to read all that you guys can see that so we have an invisible dog fence that was already there um i know ignorance is no excuse we had no idea of permit needed to be pulled neither did you

  156. support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations request is granted so nice it's going to look even better thank you so much your neighbors love that you could still plan them that's true very nice it's going to even be better you can you even return trees i don't know oh okay item 18. have a blessed evening yes you're so patient you still have energy hi my name is katie greening i'm one of the residents at 6751 white pine court i am here to seeking approval for the permission request for existing invisible dog fence um encroaching 16 feet in to 25 feet i'm not going to read all that you guys can see that so we have an invisible dog fence that was already there um i know ignorance is no excuse we had no idea of permit needed to be pulled neither did you invisible fence we've had invisible fences and other neighboring towns not that that is an excuse but they didn't require a permit to be pulled so two years ago we I moved in that's my father Chuck reading he owns the place we moved in I brought that long a dog okay it's for a dog sorry it's for a dog they already have a poodle the poodle that you could kind of not have to have an electric fence for my dog you do she's prey driven so she wants to chase all the squirrels out of the neighborhood and that becomes in a danger issue right for the family the way our lot is situated on that court is we are it doesn't really look like a diamond right there we have no backyard essentially to put up a fence and if we did put up a fence we obviously would have come in front of you uh-huh but there it wouldn't be of anything for the dog and it's um we're built into like a berm I call it bunker so to speak so the first floor and then there's a second floor where it goes down to that bottom part of our backyard with the dogs we can't he can't go up and down the stairs at 88 so as I said we didn't know that we needed to get all this permission so yes our invisible fence does circle the

  157. invisible fence we've had invisible fences and other neighboring towns not that that is an excuse but they didn't require a permit to be pulled so two years ago we I moved in that's my father Chuck reading he owns the place we moved in I brought that long a dog okay it's for a dog sorry it's for a dog they already have a poodle the poodle that you could kind of not have to have an electric fence for my dog you do she's prey driven so she wants to chase all the squirrels out of the neighborhood and that becomes in a danger issue right for the family the way our lot is situated on that court is we are it doesn't really look like a diamond right there we have no backyard essentially to put up a fence and if we did put up a fence we obviously would have come in front of you uh-huh but there it wouldn't be of anything for the dog and it's um we're built into like a berm I call it bunker so to speak so the first floor and then there's a second floor where it goes down to that bottom part of our backyard with the dogs we can't he can't go up and down the stairs at 88 so as I said we didn't know that we needed to get all this permission so yes our invisible fence does circle the lot because essentially our front yard is our backyard because we don't have that the neighbors have had no issue with they all know her um the neighbor across the street just went to Greenland or he would have been here to speak on our behalf there's another neighbor has a dog she's okay with it no nobody seems to have any problems with our animals in the they don't leave she doesn't leave my dog which is would be the one that they would be worried about she's more afraid of it than the poodle so the poodle doesn't leave it either but he'll go closer to it than she will so we're just asking for permission to keep our front yard our backyard for for the dog's purpose so the only thing I worry about is so you know let's say you move somebody else comes in with a dog I mean that's a big enclosure mm-hmm it's going through the front so it just seems the same thing I'd say to you as I said to the previous applicant couldn't you just put it in the backyard and there is no back they don't go back here there's the backyard is this they don't have anything

  158. that we needed to get all this permission so yes our invisible fence does circle the lot because essentially our front yard is our backyard because we don't have that the neighbors have had no issue with they all know her um the neighbor across the street just went to Greenland or he would have been here to speak on our behalf there's another neighbor has a dog she's okay with it no nobody seems to have any problems with our animals in the they don't leave she doesn't leave my dog which is would be the one that they would be worried about she's more afraid of it than the poodle so the poodle doesn't leave it either but he'll go closer to it than she will so we're just asking for permission to keep our front yard our backyard for for the dog's purpose so the only thing I worry about is so you know let's say you move somebody else comes in with a dog I mean that's a big enclosure mm-hmm it's going through the front so it just seems the same thing I'd say to you as I said to the previous applicant couldn't you just put it in the backyard and there is no back they don't go back here there's the backyard is this they don't have anything it's this so basically this is not really our lot line back here right from what we've been told but uh it's a forest right there there is no matter to put a fence to and that would also be downstairs and you have to go downstairs and you can't do stairs okay so even if we you know treated that as your front yard you're you're still encroaching into the setbacks oh yeah we're encroaching we're aware we didn't realize that there was right so that's all i'm saying because there wasn't if we were to do it by it was all due respect if we were to do it by your encroachments the invisible fence would be in our house because we don't have i mean it's not a big one yeah and you have two frontages too as well right yeah i mean we would the invisible fence would literally be in the middle of our house that certainly seems to be a hardship it does no one's complaining about it i'm too uh proactive about it and it's too late for me to he doesn't want to argue they wore him down so i'll open this

  159. they don't have anything it's this so basically this is not really our lot line back here right from what we've been told but uh it's a forest right there there is no matter to put a fence to and that would also be downstairs and you have to go downstairs and you can't do stairs okay so even if we you know treated that as your front yard you're you're still encroaching into the setbacks oh yeah we're encroaching we're aware we didn't realize that there was right so that's all i'm saying because there wasn't if we were to do it by it was all due respect if we were to do it by your encroachments the invisible fence would be in our house because we don't have i mean it's not a big one yeah and you have two frontages too as well right yeah i mean we would the invisible fence would literally be in the middle of our house that certainly seems to be a hardship it does no one's complaining about it i'm too uh proactive about it and it's too late for me to he doesn't want to argue they wore him down so i'll open this to the public i don't want to comment on this close public hearing and bring it back for a motion i'll be one to make a motion please do okay so relative to the permission request for the invisible dog fence uh in regard to the appeal at 6751 white pine court um i move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because um the location of the accessory structure will not hinder or discourage the adjacent use of the property due really to the layout of the lot. And then relative to the dimensional variance for a request for the existing structure. Regard to the appeal at 6751 White Pine Court, I move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because

  160. about it and it's too late for me to he doesn't want to argue they wore him down so i'll open this to the public i don't want to comment on this close public hearing and bring it back for a motion i'll be one to make a motion please do okay so relative to the permission request for the invisible dog fence uh in regard to the appeal at 6751 white pine court um i move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because um the location of the accessory structure will not hinder or discourage the adjacent use of the property due really to the layout of the lot. And then relative to the dimensional variance for a request for the existing structure. Regard to the appeal at 6751 White Pine Court, I move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the layout and size of the lot. There is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors for the same. And the fact is the real purpose is to make sure this not only protects the dog, but the neighbors unique, unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated as we stated. And it's not self created because this is the lot that they have to work with. And they've done what they believe to be their best to accommodate the needs of their neighbors and their dog. If approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days for the existing invisible dog fence. So we have to do a permit? Yeah. So we have to come fill out the permit. It's an ordinance. Okay. If you come into our office. So just come here and ask for the permit. To the building. division correct okay within five days okay thank you I'll stick somebody else on that but okay motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you for keeping an eye on this young guy

  161. The applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the layout and size of the lot. There is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors for the same. And the fact is the real purpose is to make sure this not only protects the dog, but the neighbors unique, unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated as we stated. And it's not self created because this is the lot that they have to work with. And they've done what they believe to be their best to accommodate the needs of their neighbors and their dog. If approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days for the existing invisible dog fence. So we have to do a permit? Yeah. So we have to come fill out the permit. It's an ordinance. Okay. If you come into our office. So just come here and ask for the permit. To the building. division correct okay within five days okay thank you I'll stick somebody else on that but okay motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you for keeping an eye on this young guy there we go well it seems like they should be coming in pretty soon otherwise we could sneak up to the next meeting I know we don't want a table oh boy I'm just going to wait for the chair yeah no problem it's been a long night yeah sorry to add to it it's all right that's what we're here for

  162. thank you for keeping an eye on this young guy there we go well it seems like they should be coming in pretty soon otherwise we could sneak up to the next meeting I know we don't want a table oh boy I'm just going to wait for the chair yeah no problem it's been a long night yeah sorry to add to it it's all right that's what we're here for Okay, they're back, Mr. Chair. Uh, did you make any progress? I think we had a very casual conversation, and it was very kind of helpful to hear, you know, their covenants and their limitations on accessory structures. There were several comments made, you know, kind of like, is there a way to take the structure and tone it down a little bit to, you know, appeal more to the architectural community or to fit within the architectural elements of the neighborhood? I think the current plan reflects that. Mr. Ruffini will, you know, will work with HOA in gaining approval from the HOA and the architectural committee to kind of, you know, bring this to light. The other option is we're going to attach a component of it, you know, to the side of the house, and it would be fall under more of a building, um, building issue, condition.

  163. Okay, they're back, Mr. Chair. Uh, did you make any progress? I think we had a very casual conversation, and it was very kind of helpful to hear, you know, their covenants and their limitations on accessory structures. There were several comments made, you know, kind of like, is there a way to take the structure and tone it down a little bit to, you know, appeal more to the architectural community or to fit within the architectural elements of the neighborhood? I think the current plan reflects that. Mr. Ruffini will, you know, will work with HOA in gaining approval from the HOA and the architectural committee to kind of, you know, bring this to light. The other option is we're going to attach a component of it, you know, to the side of the house, and it would be fall under more of a building, um, building issue, condition. Um, there is a way to keep the current structure and attach an element to the house to, so it's more permanent to the structure, and it's current. location. The HOA has seen that, you know, it's just their, it's like, it's the restrictions that's set in the deed. And they said until kind of someone gets involved to kind of rewrite that terminology, that it doesn't, they can't, he can't say no on behalf of the board, the entire board today. But I felt that he was a little more optimistic having those conversations today. Is this accurate? Are you, do you want to say anything? Is this accurate? But in the meantime, just simply building something because the main company is wrong. It doesn't

  164. and it would be fall under more of a building, um, building issue, condition. Um, there is a way to keep the current structure and attach an element to the house to, so it's more permanent to the structure, and it's current. location. The HOA has seen that, you know, it's just their, it's like, it's the restrictions that's set in the deed. And they said until kind of someone gets involved to kind of rewrite that terminology, that it doesn't, they can't, he can't say no on behalf of the board, the entire board today. But I felt that he was a little more optimistic having those conversations today. Is this accurate? Are you, do you want to say anything? Is this accurate? But in the meantime, just simply building something because the main company is wrong. It doesn't strike us to you. It doesn't affect something. So, it's sort of like, go ahead and do it and ask you to get this. I wouldn't, that's an accurate, I would not have a builder that would construct something without going through the proper channels. But I will just, I'll end it with, I'm asking the board's permission to approve this request given that it conforms to all of the townships. Zoning boards, we have at least some standing when we have these board decisions with the HOA and other members of the community. I don't feel like tabling it would be productive. Is that what you're saying? That's a discussion you have as a homeowner. Well, the two items of discussion are regarding the height of the fireplace. And the spa on the patio, so we already conceded to reduce the height of the fireplace, and the spa on the patio wasn't really a discussion, but we already approved one tonight in a tighter area. So we assume that's a non-factor, because the prefabricated spa sitting on the patio.

  165. But in the meantime, just simply building something because the main company is wrong. It doesn't strike us to you. It doesn't affect something. So, it's sort of like, go ahead and do it and ask you to get this. I wouldn't, that's an accurate, I would not have a builder that would construct something without going through the proper channels. But I will just, I'll end it with, I'm asking the board's permission to approve this request given that it conforms to all of the townships. Zoning boards, we have at least some standing when we have these board decisions with the HOA and other members of the community. I don't feel like tabling it would be productive. Is that what you're saying? That's a discussion you have as a homeowner. Well, the two items of discussion are regarding the height of the fireplace. And the spa on the patio, so we already conceded to reduce the height of the fireplace, and the spa on the patio wasn't really a discussion, but we already approved one tonight in a tighter area. So we assume that's a non-factor, because the prefabricated spa sitting on the patio. So if this is considered the maximum extent of development, and we may make concessions with HOA. So is it ready for approval based on conceding the height of the fireplace, because that's the one note, the metro note, that's requested to be changed? Does anybody have anything else? I mean, I can't make a motion. I mean, I didn't think they were going to come back with a plan. It doesn't sound like they want to postpone it. You want a decision, yay or nay, tonight. I would appreciate that. Okay. So, one more note there. The scale of it. if it was attached to the house could be approved by the hoi the the pure discrepancy in the way that the deeds are written is that it's detached from the house yeah see that that to me is an unreasonable i mean they can suit enforce it if they want but in today's environment i don't think that that certainly it's not consistent with all the decisions we've made in the 20 years i've been here right people have things in the yard they've increased in scale you know where this

  166. So if this is considered the maximum extent of development, and we may make concessions with HOA. So is it ready for approval based on conceding the height of the fireplace, because that's the one note, the metro note, that's requested to be changed? Does anybody have anything else? I mean, I can't make a motion. I mean, I didn't think they were going to come back with a plan. It doesn't sound like they want to postpone it. You want a decision, yay or nay, tonight. I would appreciate that. Okay. So, one more note there. The scale of it. if it was attached to the house could be approved by the hoi the the pure discrepancy in the way that the deeds are written is that it's detached from the house yeah see that that to me is an unreasonable i mean they can suit enforce it if they want but in today's environment i don't think that that certainly it's not consistent with all the decisions we've made in the 20 years i've been here right people have things in the yard they've increased in scale you know where this is situated and the landscaping is pretty substantial which is what we've always done it's on a cul-de-sac it backs up the squirrel so they conceded the height of the chimney i'm okay with it so i'd vote in favor of it so if somebody wants to make a motion i just i think i just would like to make sure that the homeowners association feels that what has been described is okay do you have any other comments or anything i just want to make sure you i mean any other yeah but yeah i mean i'm just okay i just want to make sure you had there are three you prove one you're prove them all and i just can't do that as an age away president I'm not asking you to approve. I just wanted to make sure you had an opportunity to... And he's got restrictions that say nothing, so he can't. Can we just table it regardless? I move to table this until a future meeting.

  167. been here right people have things in the yard they've increased in scale you know where this is situated and the landscaping is pretty substantial which is what we've always done it's on a cul-de-sac it backs up the squirrel so they conceded the height of the chimney i'm okay with it so i'd vote in favor of it so if somebody wants to make a motion i just i think i just would like to make sure that the homeowners association feels that what has been described is okay do you have any other comments or anything i just want to make sure you i mean any other yeah but yeah i mean i'm just okay i just want to make sure you had there are three you prove one you're prove them all and i just can't do that as an age away president I'm not asking you to approve. I just wanted to make sure you had an opportunity to... And he's got restrictions that say nothing, so he can't. Can we just table it regardless? I move to table this until a future meeting. Support. Okay. So I have a motion and support to table. Any discussion? I don't think we should table it. I don't know that there's any more information that we're going to have that would make this any better. I just don't like... I mean, like we're trying to design this up here. If we lower it, then it turns into a gas thing. I think it's getting away from... That's something that Mr. Ruffini is okay with and that brings it more into conformity on why I do this. I'm willing to... I mean, I give a little out, you know, like if that helps it, you know, I don't have to trust. And here's the thing. If we table it, the only people who can vote on it are the five of us. True. Good point, actually. It's not going to... Nothing's going to change. Unless they asked to postpone it and came back to a seven-member body. Postpone it for the purpose of... I mean, maybe that is... Or... I'm going to let the board listen to what they've heard because now I'm going to... It's getting late for me too, so... Right, but I'm saying it... So... So... So...

  168. I move to table this until a future meeting. Support. Okay. So I have a motion and support to table. Any discussion? I don't think we should table it. I don't know that there's any more information that we're going to have that would make this any better. I just don't like... I mean, like we're trying to design this up here. If we lower it, then it turns into a gas thing. I think it's getting away from... That's something that Mr. Ruffini is okay with and that brings it more into conformity on why I do this. I'm willing to... I mean, I give a little out, you know, like if that helps it, you know, I don't have to trust. And here's the thing. If we table it, the only people who can vote on it are the five of us. True. Good point, actually. It's not going to... Nothing's going to change. Unless they asked to postpone it and came back to a seven-member body. Postpone it for the purpose of... I mean, maybe that is... Or... I'm going to let the board listen to what they've heard because now I'm going to... It's getting late for me too, so... Right, but I'm saying it... So... So... So... You're at a disadvantage because you only have four people voting. We can't even seem to, excuse me, five, you need four out of the five. How can we get this back in front of a full board? No, I don't, at this point, I don't think we can, unless it was denied without prejudice and they could submit a new application for a totally new hearing. Okay. So there's another option. You guys can deny it without prejudice because I'm in favor of it. If you're not, you know, it's, we need to make a decision to give the homeowner guidance. So either two options, approve it with the modification on the chimney or deny it without prejudice and he's got to come back. And then you could have a seven person board, which you may have a better or different feeling on. So somebody's got to make a motion. Okay. We got a motion on the floor though, right? Do we want to withdraw the motion or vote on that? We'll withdraw it. We'll withdraw it. We'll withdraw it. The motion was just withdrawn by the mover. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that helps us. We've been going back and forth about this the whole time and, you know, redoing their

  169. You're at a disadvantage because you only have four people voting. We can't even seem to, excuse me, five, you need four out of the five. How can we get this back in front of a full board? No, I don't, at this point, I don't think we can, unless it was denied without prejudice and they could submit a new application for a totally new hearing. Okay. So there's another option. You guys can deny it without prejudice because I'm in favor of it. If you're not, you know, it's, we need to make a decision to give the homeowner guidance. So either two options, approve it with the modification on the chimney or deny it without prejudice and he's got to come back. And then you could have a seven person board, which you may have a better or different feeling on. So somebody's got to make a motion. Okay. We got a motion on the floor though, right? Do we want to withdraw the motion or vote on that? We'll withdraw it. We'll withdraw it. We'll withdraw it. The motion was just withdrawn by the mover. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think that helps us. We've been going back and forth about this the whole time and, you know, redoing their things. Okay. Well, then if you want to deny it without prejudice, then he gets a fresh. What does the board think? I mean, what do you think, Jesslyn? I'm trying to figure out what we're struggling with. as a board and because also obviously there's a struggle I mean I would I mean it was this height of it which they had agreed to reduce I mean it is it's huge in terms of square footage in my opinion with that kind of a height of a roof over it I am sensitive to the community and how they feel about it so that would be the association and it doesn't appear that they were on the same page there why don't we make a motion to deny it without prejudice because I I just think having this happen again with five people is not to the benefit of the homeowner and maybe there will be some modification to it I I don't think

  170. We've been going back and forth about this the whole time and, you know, redoing their things. Okay. Well, then if you want to deny it without prejudice, then he gets a fresh. What does the board think? I mean, what do you think, Jesslyn? I'm trying to figure out what we're struggling with. as a board and because also obviously there's a struggle I mean I would I mean it was this height of it which they had agreed to reduce I mean it is it's huge in terms of square footage in my opinion with that kind of a height of a roof over it I am sensitive to the community and how they feel about it so that would be the association and it doesn't appear that they were on the same page there why don't we make a motion to deny it without prejudice because I I just think having this happen again with five people is not to the benefit of the homeowner and maybe there will be some modification to it I I don't think so but at least that would sort of I get that would that would I think achieve the benefit of what you're trying it would achieve what you're trying to do with a motion to table postpone probably so yeah so it's a it's a different way to get to the same way and it has the added benefit of more people more people and I you know we can see that you know the applicant is willing to negotiate and i would just ask the board please you know we we see this every month and your the regulations that you've got are really unique they're really not in line with the other subs in the township so it's and i know you know that so it's something to revisit to see if we can if we can move there too and because we've got to allow people the opportunity to use their property in an appropriate fashion so so did you want to talk about your drainage i mean so your drainage issue or no is the only concern at this point in time the relationship with the homeowners association because the approval of it's yeah it's it fits within the the guidelines and hoa doesn't have any restrictions from setback limits or square footage of accessory structures

  171. of the homeowner and maybe there will be some modification to it I I don't think so but at least that would sort of I get that would that would I think achieve the benefit of what you're trying it would achieve what you're trying to do with a motion to table postpone probably so yeah so it's a it's a different way to get to the same way and it has the added benefit of more people more people and I you know we can see that you know the applicant is willing to negotiate and i would just ask the board please you know we we see this every month and your the regulations that you've got are really unique they're really not in line with the other subs in the township so it's and i know you know that so it's something to revisit to see if we can if we can move there too and because we've got to allow people the opportunity to use their property in an appropriate fashion so so did you want to talk about your drainage i mean so your drainage issue or no is the only concern at this point in time the relationship with the homeowners association because the approval of it's yeah it's it fits within the the guidelines and hoa doesn't have any restrictions from setback limits or square footage of accessory structures that that supersede any of the townships thing um guidelines and it fits within all the conforms with all of those the zoning board um issues so like i said i hate to talk only about size because there are other structures that have been approved yeah it's unfair to kind of just say size is the only limited factor when it fits with all the guidelines and it was arc created and with two different architects to conform into that footprint the only thing you can say is that the size for this uh seems to be a little larger than most that's the only thing and then he has drainage from his neighboring his neighbor on the north as well as squirrel he's had oil spills from other things so he's this this addition allows him to use his yard 100% of the time versus 40% because he has videos and images of his yard and his next door neighbor being flooded throughout the

  172. and hoa doesn't have any restrictions from setback limits or square footage of accessory structures that that supersede any of the townships thing um guidelines and it fits within all the conforms with all of those the zoning board um issues so like i said i hate to talk only about size because there are other structures that have been approved yeah it's unfair to kind of just say size is the only limited factor when it fits with all the guidelines and it was arc created and with two different architects to conform into that footprint the only thing you can say is that the size for this uh seems to be a little larger than most that's the only thing and then he has drainage from his neighboring his neighbor on the north as well as squirrel he's had oil spills from other things so he's this this addition allows him to use his yard 100% of the time versus 40% because he has videos and images of his yard and his next door neighbor being flooded throughout the spring and in the fall because of the water runoff from three sides so in any event this this allows him to better enjoy his his space well I have a thought because actually I just changed my my thinking because it sounds like as the homeowner and you representing him that you wanted to you would like to have a decision tonight that's what I'm hearing so and I do think we can make progress with the HOA I think I think we should vote on it and people vote the way they wish so but what vote on what what are we voting on well okay emotion emotion okay that's right no one has made a motion yeah so I'm willing to make a motion okay what is your motion going to say okay I am going to, I would like to make a motion to approve it with an amendment of the reduced height that he had suggested of the chimney coming down. Okay.

  173. images of his yard and his next door neighbor being flooded throughout the spring and in the fall because of the water runoff from three sides so in any event this this allows him to better enjoy his his space well I have a thought because actually I just changed my my thinking because it sounds like as the homeowner and you representing him that you wanted to you would like to have a decision tonight that's what I'm hearing so and I do think we can make progress with the HOA I think I think we should vote on it and people vote the way they wish so but what vote on what what are we voting on well okay emotion emotion okay that's right no one has made a motion yeah so I'm willing to make a motion okay what is your motion going to say okay I am going to, I would like to make a motion to approve it with an amendment of the reduced height that he had suggested of the chimney coming down. Okay. And so would you vote for that? And the gas? And, well, whatever required, if he has to reduce it, he has to decide what would that require, because I'm not technically equipped to say it has to be, yes. It has to be, because for natural learning, it has to be twice. And then, Ed, would you vote for that? So, I would. Okay. Because I'm hoping that we'll get some more consensus. Okay, so, I mean, I'm not going to screw the bill. What about Bryant? Okay. Support. All right. Well, I just want to make sure, because otherwise we should have a motion to deny without president. All right, go make the motion then. Okay. So, I will start with the permission request first at 3868 Mill Spring Road. I'm sorry? Keep going. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. For the pavilion with a wood-burning fireplace and spa, I move that the request be approved as amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the accessory structure should be more harmonious to the neighborhood, given that the applicant has agreed to reduce the height.

  174. Okay. And so would you vote for that? And the gas? And, well, whatever required, if he has to reduce it, he has to decide what would that require, because I'm not technically equipped to say it has to be, yes. It has to be, because for natural learning, it has to be twice. And then, Ed, would you vote for that? So, I would. Okay. Because I'm hoping that we'll get some more consensus. Okay, so, I mean, I'm not going to screw the bill. What about Bryant? Okay. Support. All right. Well, I just want to make sure, because otherwise we should have a motion to deny without president. All right, go make the motion then. Okay. So, I will start with the permission request first at 3868 Mill Spring Road. I'm sorry? Keep going. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. For the pavilion with a wood-burning fireplace and spa, I move that the request be approved as amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the accessory structure should be more harmonious to the neighborhood, given that the applicant has agreed to reduce the height. of it in terms of the dimensional variance at 3868 Mill Spring Road for a 21 by 39 foot reduced height pavilion of 16 is it because it's 18 or 15 7 15 7 okay from the peak in the chimney is was 18 17 it was like 17 9 or something like that on the Prince okay and you're going to reduce it by to the height so 15 7 15 7 yes that's that's good so as amended with the reduced height of the chimney to 15 7 to meet the peak of the pavilion I move that the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because the it's a corner lot there's no injustice to the joining neighbors because of what the amendment of reducing the height of it it will be much more harmonious and I would think much less objectionable unique circumstances of the property beginning it

  175. of it in terms of the dimensional variance at 3868 Mill Spring Road for a 21 by 39 foot reduced height pavilion of 16 is it because it's 18 or 15 7 15 7 okay from the peak in the chimney is was 18 17 it was like 17 9 or something like that on the Prince okay and you're going to reduce it by to the height so 15 7 15 7 yes that's that's good so as amended with the reduced height of the chimney to 15 7 to meet the peak of the pavilion I move that the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because the it's a corner lot there's no injustice to the joining neighbors because of what the amendment of reducing the height of it it will be much more harmonious and I would think much less objectionable unique circumstances of the property beginning it also has multiple frontages and this is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to instill additional evergreens may be required to screen the accessory structure from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting I did not address the spa I didn't have that in my okay and the permission request at 3883 68 thank you I'm just going from memory um for the spa as well I move that that be approved as submitted based on information presented applicant to distribute to demonstrate compliance with section 42 desk six 7.6 standards because the use of a century structure is appropriate for the neighborhood as spas are very common and if approved also the applications for those necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and I'm not sure if the spa needs to be planting but I'm in including that as part of the overall project with the additional screen you know they have they have

  176. harmonious and I would think much less objectionable unique circumstances of the property beginning it also has multiple frontages and this is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to instill additional evergreens may be required to screen the accessory structure from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting I did not address the spa I didn't have that in my okay and the permission request at 3883 68 thank you I'm just going from memory um for the spa as well I move that that be approved as submitted based on information presented applicant to distribute to demonstrate compliance with section 42 desk six 7.6 standards because the use of a century structure is appropriate for the neighborhood as spas are very common and if approved also the applications for those necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and I'm not sure if the spa needs to be planting but I'm in including that as part of the overall project with the additional screen you know they have they have substantial screening around the whole thing just to make sure that it's screened from public view I have a motion and support is there any discussion all those in favor say aye aye thank you any opposed congratulations your request as modified is granted do I have a motion to adjourn yes all those in favor Aye. Aye. Aye, aye, aye. We're adjourned.