the-compact
Zoning Board Of Appeals Wednesday, April 15, 2026 · 139 min

Bloomfield Township Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting on April 14, 2026

Summary

City council meeting discusses zoning, variance requests, and security measures for various properties, including pool fences, cabanas, and commercial signage.

  • Pool fence variance requests were discussed and approved with conditions.
  • A cabana was approved at 6360 Hills Drive with certain conditions.
  • Signage variance requests were granted for Culver's restaurant and Glicos Bakehouse.
  • Security measures were approved for Temple Bethel and a local facility.
  • Driveway width restrictions and emergency access features were discussed.

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Topics

Transcript

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  1. We'll get started by standing in saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Let's take attendance. Okay, so I need a motion to approve the minutes from the March 10th meeting. So moved. Support. Motion to support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. The minutes are approved. As a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bluefield Township Board of Trustees for the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the orders shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium. Address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. comments by the neighborhood association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial please confine comments to the specific request before the board for a request to be successful affirmative vote but at least four members present is required we hope this helps provide a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting and so now let's call the first case item one five two eight zero inksters the afternoon ready yes sir good evening john thompson pba group i also have a large group of friends in the back that will help me if you ask me any difficult questions so we're here tonight uh you have a new homeowner at 5280 easter road on belmont lake the homeowner would like to do some improvements to their home including a gated entrance and significant amount of enhanced landscaping so the kind of a non-typical situation

  2. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium. Address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. comments by the neighborhood association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial please confine comments to the specific request before the board for a request to be successful affirmative vote but at least four members present is required we hope this helps provide a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting and so now let's call the first case item one five two eight zero inksters the afternoon ready yes sir good evening john thompson pba group i also have a large group of friends in the back that will help me if you ask me any difficult questions so we're here tonight uh you have a new homeowner at 5280 easter road on belmont lake the homeowner would like to do some improvements to their home including a gated entrance and significant amount of enhanced landscaping so the kind of a non-typical situation here the there is no principal structure on the township property as the west bloomfield bloomfield township line bisect the property so the principal house is actually in west bloomfield yeah so there's two lots the the house is on the west bloomfield lot and what we're talking about tonight is the other lot which has uh so um so what we are requesting is approval of permission and dimensional variance requests to install a 23 foot wide four foot high gate and a and two five foot four pillars on either side of the gate there was a typo in the notice it said five feet should be five foot four for clarification five feet close notice i think we could live with a couple inches well we'll see we'll have to sorry i shouldn't say that

  3. a gated entrance and significant amount of enhanced landscaping so the kind of a non-typical situation here the there is no principal structure on the township property as the west bloomfield bloomfield township line bisect the property so the principal house is actually in west bloomfield yeah so there's two lots the the house is on the west bloomfield lot and what we're talking about tonight is the other lot which has uh so um so what we are requesting is approval of permission and dimensional variance requests to install a 23 foot wide four foot high gate and a and two five foot four pillars on either side of the gate there was a typo in the notice it said five feet should be five foot four for clarification five feet close notice i think we could live with a couple inches well we'll see we'll have to sorry i shouldn't say that okay all right so the column itself is five feet um we put a capstone on it which made it five foot four okay just for aesthetics um so the purpose of the gate and the enhanced landscaping is to reduce trespassing and improve security um if you would so what we've got is uh is the proposed gates about 40 feet off the property line hidden well behind any of the entrance landscaping so you won't see that gate until you're right in the driveway that gate also allows us the gate position allows us to stack vehicles we provided a turnaround area so any turning movements would be done within the driveway and not out in the street do you know the total acreage of the two lots I do but not okay I know the property really well okay yes do you know the size of the last carol well I can tell you

  4. i think we could live with a couple inches well we'll see we'll have to sorry i shouldn't say that okay all right so the column itself is five feet um we put a capstone on it which made it five foot four okay just for aesthetics um so the purpose of the gate and the enhanced landscaping is to reduce trespassing and improve security um if you would so what we've got is uh is the proposed gates about 40 feet off the property line hidden well behind any of the entrance landscaping so you won't see that gate until you're right in the driveway that gate also allows us the gate position allows us to stack vehicles we provided a turnaround area so any turning movements would be done within the driveway and not out in the street do you know the total acreage of the two lots I do but not okay I know the property really well okay yes do you know the size of the last carol well I can tell you this the house is set way back from the road but the house then it's basically set on the lake so it's not an overly large lot okay it's kind of deceptive when you look at these pictures okay yeah and I don't have the acreage up top of my head here that's okay keep going you're doing a good job I don't want to slow you down okay so in part why the enhanced security is we have a private private owner that's I mean they like the privacy but secondly because there's been cross traffic with people cutting through the property we're going to get down to the beaches so I like an association and such so so by enhancing that landscaping and installing the gate it'll be a visual deterrent from people trying to cross it the property they call it security security landscaping was a term for it which I learned right so so as I mentioned the gate is screened by the landscaping and set back off the Easter to allow vehicle stacking and not affecting the pedestrian via pedestrian or vehicle

  5. I know the property really well okay yes do you know the size of the last carol well I can tell you this the house is set way back from the road but the house then it's basically set on the lake so it's not an overly large lot okay it's kind of deceptive when you look at these pictures okay yeah and I don't have the acreage up top of my head here that's okay keep going you're doing a good job I don't want to slow you down okay so in part why the enhanced security is we have a private private owner that's I mean they like the privacy but secondly because there's been cross traffic with people cutting through the property we're going to get down to the beaches so I like an association and such so so by enhancing that landscaping and installing the gate it'll be a visual deterrent from people trying to cross it the property they call it security security landscaping was a term for it which I learned right so so as I mentioned the gate is screened by the landscaping and set back off the Easter to allow vehicle stacking and not affecting the pedestrian via pedestrian or vehicle traffic we have notified the adjacent neighbors to let them know what we were proposing to do there has been no objection has been received and finally with respect to the gate I'd like to just show the pictures from our neighbors two doors and three doors down at there's a 5980 and 50 105 very similar situations where they have so basically two doors down on the opposite side of the street we have a another gate and entrance similar and then three doors down same thing so it's reoccurring on Easter it's not a busy road so anyways the so there is precedence for neighbors

  6. stacking and not affecting the pedestrian via pedestrian or vehicle traffic we have notified the adjacent neighbors to let them know what we were proposing to do there has been no objection has been received and finally with respect to the gate I'd like to just show the pictures from our neighbors two doors and three doors down at there's a 5980 and 50 105 very similar situations where they have so basically two doors down on the opposite side of the street we have a another gate and entrance similar and then three doors down same thing so it's reoccurring on Easter it's not a busy road so anyways the so there is precedence for neighbors that are in close proximity. With regards to the pillar, again, being five foot four inches high, quite honestly, it's aesthetics. You want that pillar to be a bookend to your gate. It's a typical scenario where you would have your pillar slightly higher than the gate itself. So there's no real hardship there. It's just that the bottom of the good. So with that, I'm happy to go over any of the questionnaire questions or answering your questions. So I think we have the pictures. Does anybody have any questions they'd like to ask? Go ahead, Carol. So I have some concern that we only noticed it for five feet, okay? So are you willing to drop it down to the five feet? If you're telling me that it's going to affect the notice and not just get away with that, then yes. Carol would never say that. Don't ask an attorney any questions like that? Yeah, exactly. We're not going to grant a variance for more than it has been noticed. So can you drop it down to the maximum highest five feet? Yes. Okay. Do you have questions? I'll open this to the public. Do you like to comment on this item?

  7. that are in close proximity. With regards to the pillar, again, being five foot four inches high, quite honestly, it's aesthetics. You want that pillar to be a bookend to your gate. It's a typical scenario where you would have your pillar slightly higher than the gate itself. So there's no real hardship there. It's just that the bottom of the good. So with that, I'm happy to go over any of the questionnaire questions or answering your questions. So I think we have the pictures. Does anybody have any questions they'd like to ask? Go ahead, Carol. So I have some concern that we only noticed it for five feet, okay? So are you willing to drop it down to the five feet? If you're telling me that it's going to affect the notice and not just get away with that, then yes. Carol would never say that. Don't ask an attorney any questions like that? Yeah, exactly. We're not going to grant a variance for more than it has been noticed. So can you drop it down to the maximum highest five feet? Yes. Okay. Do you have questions? I'll open this to the public. Do you like to comment on this item? I'll close the public hearing agreement back then. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion. Please do. I'll do the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 5280 Kingster Road. for the accessory structures of the piers and driveway gate in the front yard without principal structure. I move the request be approved as it was noticed by feeding. Based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structures approved in the neighborhood as you shown other neighbors in that same area at gates and pillars on the property. Second for the dimensional variance in regards to the appeal at again 5280 for the dimensional variance again for the piers, the driveway gate, the front yard. I move the variance be approved as amended by the basic information presented. It did demonstrate compliance with section for all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the letter of the ordinance being unduly burdensome because now they're in strain so it'll be still aesthetically pleasing but it stops people trespassing on the property. There is no justice to the joint aid by the reason some of them actually have this type of feature as well. Needs certain stands on the property have been demonstrated given the fact that again half of it is in Bloomfield Township and

  8. I'll close the public hearing agreement back then. Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion. Please do. I'll do the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 5280 Kingster Road. for the accessory structures of the piers and driveway gate in the front yard without principal structure. I move the request be approved as it was noticed by feeding. Based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structures approved in the neighborhood as you shown other neighbors in that same area at gates and pillars on the property. Second for the dimensional variance in regards to the appeal at again 5280 for the dimensional variance again for the piers, the driveway gate, the front yard. I move the variance be approved as amended by the basic information presented. It did demonstrate compliance with section for all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the letter of the ordinance being unduly burdensome because now they're in strain so it'll be still aesthetically pleasing but it stops people trespassing on the property. There is no justice to the joint aid by the reason some of them actually have this type of feature as well. Needs certain stands on the property have been demonstrated given the fact that again half of it is in Bloomfield Township and half is in West Bloomfield. This is not self created because again only half of the property is in Bloomfield Township the rest is in West Bloomfield which is why it's not the principal structure. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and I'm not going to do suggest any additional evergreen screenings at this time. Support. Can I add something? I think we need to add a home harmless. Oh yeah, sorry. Yes, can you please add a home harmless for our fire department to access? You guys can add a home harmless for our fire department to access? one from us and one from west bloomfield yeah so you'll need to have a whole heartless in mind to west bloomfield for their fire department police department as well as for women so i have a motion of support for the motion any discussion all those in favor say aye aye be opposed congratulations your request as noticed is granted thank you uh calling out to six seven seven five wing lake road hi my name is stephen shepherd i'm the owner of six seven seven five wing lake road

  9. demonstrated given the fact that again half of it is in Bloomfield Township and half is in West Bloomfield. This is not self created because again only half of the property is in Bloomfield Township the rest is in West Bloomfield which is why it's not the principal structure. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and I'm not going to do suggest any additional evergreen screenings at this time. Support. Can I add something? I think we need to add a home harmless. Oh yeah, sorry. Yes, can you please add a home harmless for our fire department to access? You guys can add a home harmless for our fire department to access? one from us and one from west bloomfield yeah so you'll need to have a whole heartless in mind to west bloomfield for their fire department police department as well as for women so i have a motion of support for the motion any discussion all those in favor say aye aye be opposed congratulations your request as noticed is granted thank you uh calling out to six seven seven five wing lake road hi my name is stephen shepherd i'm the owner of six seven seven five wing lake road my wife isn't here and she's with the three kids but we are requesting permission to place a hot tub in our backyard actually my wife and the three kids are asking for permission you're not going to use a hot tub okay uh any questions from the board wait is there any screen planning about that yes yeah about three years ago we placed eight more weight spruces in the backyard as my north neighbor remodeled his house and took down our privacy you so i've already placed three always spruces to the north and then five to the south that was about three years ago and then you can see the dimensions they're going to get to double the size they're currently at 18 feet tall 12 feet wide and we're all three feet every year up to 35 feet 24 feet wide so it's a very minimal gap between the trees currently that should be done within here and there's some pictures of that yeah there's a couple pictures

  10. hi my name is stephen shepherd i'm the owner of six seven seven five wing lake road my wife isn't here and she's with the three kids but we are requesting permission to place a hot tub in our backyard actually my wife and the three kids are asking for permission you're not going to use a hot tub okay uh any questions from the board wait is there any screen planning about that yes yeah about three years ago we placed eight more weight spruces in the backyard as my north neighbor remodeled his house and took down our privacy you so i've already placed three always spruces to the north and then five to the south that was about three years ago and then you can see the dimensions they're going to get to double the size they're currently at 18 feet tall 12 feet wide and we're all three feet every year up to 35 feet 24 feet wide so it's a very minimal gap between the trees currently that should be done within here and there's some pictures of that yeah there's a couple pictures so you're pretty confident that'll screen the hotel absolutely you have to be a little patient and you can put them closer to start but then they're just right on top of each other so this is looking to the front of the house on the left uh right on the right side there is the north that's going to the north property the hotel would be right in that corner there yeah it doesn't look like that they were actually doing so that's it no no what's the view to the east is there a picture of it that's to the um that's to the east uh that's the kobe lane and they have a pool actually in the the bottom picture there oh uh the bottom picture sorry yes that's to kobe lane so that looked to me like that i can't so it looks like some of the vegetation vegetation right is not evergreen? Yeah. So one should be able to see it in that direction? No, he has actually arborbodies in his backyard because he's got a pool that he placed a year ago. He can't count his stuff though. It has to be on your property. Okay. I mean, there's

  11. that should be done within here and there's some pictures of that yeah there's a couple pictures so you're pretty confident that'll screen the hotel absolutely you have to be a little patient and you can put them closer to start but then they're just right on top of each other so this is looking to the front of the house on the left uh right on the right side there is the north that's going to the north property the hotel would be right in that corner there yeah it doesn't look like that they were actually doing so that's it no no what's the view to the east is there a picture of it that's to the um that's to the east uh that's the kobe lane and they have a pool actually in the the bottom picture there oh uh the bottom picture sorry yes that's to kobe lane so that looked to me like that i can't so it looks like some of the vegetation vegetation right is not evergreen? Yeah. So one should be able to see it in that direction? No, he has actually arborbodies in his backyard because he's got a pool that he placed a year ago. He can't count his stuff though. It has to be on your property. Okay. I mean, there's one little space there where it's a walkway into this trail in the backyard. But I'm not sure if there's enough room back there to place any vegetation or trees. There's a fence back there also. So I'm inferring from your comments as you're not, you don't think it's feasible to put any screening to the east there? Is that what you're... Yeah. I'm not sure where I would put it because it's a bunch of brush and trees back there. Are you concerned about them dying due to lack of sunlight or? In the back there? No, I'm not. Yeah, we haven't really... I've been here for 10 years. We haven't really touched that area since I've been there. It'd be quite a job to remove all that brush and to replant anything. But if there's any openings, I could definitely put some Arbor Buddies or something back there if my eastern neighbor was concerned. Because what the motion is going to say, it has to be screened from...

  12. ago. He can't count his stuff though. It has to be on your property. Okay. I mean, there's one little space there where it's a walkway into this trail in the backyard. But I'm not sure if there's enough room back there to place any vegetation or trees. There's a fence back there also. So I'm inferring from your comments as you're not, you don't think it's feasible to put any screening to the east there? Is that what you're... Yeah. I'm not sure where I would put it because it's a bunch of brush and trees back there. Are you concerned about them dying due to lack of sunlight or? In the back there? No, I'm not. Yeah, we haven't really... I've been here for 10 years. We haven't really touched that area since I've been there. It'd be quite a job to remove all that brush and to replant anything. But if there's any openings, I could definitely put some Arbor Buddies or something back there if my eastern neighbor was concerned. Because what the motion is going to say, it has to be screened from... public view so I my observation is there there's one area and that's it that yeah so if you I could put something our variety there would help okay I think you could do that absolutely okay it looks like this is located pretty close to the house what's the distance between the house and how it was 16 feet I believe I haven't measured out in the it's really tucked in in comparison to your patios yeah yeah I we are hoping to get it close to the house yes just for the electrical and convenience sure to shield it more all right well I'm not making the motion so let's open this to the public anyone would like to comment on this closed public hearing bring it back for a motion all right with respect to property located at 6775 Wing Lake Road I would move to grant the permission request for the hot tub because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42 there 7.6 standards the size use and location of the structure is compatible with the Jane adjacent properties and

  13. public view so I my observation is there there's one area and that's it that yeah so if you I could put something our variety there would help okay I think you could do that absolutely okay it looks like this is located pretty close to the house what's the distance between the house and how it was 16 feet I believe I haven't measured out in the it's really tucked in in comparison to your patios yeah yeah I we are hoping to get it close to the house yes just for the electrical and convenience sure to shield it more all right well I'm not making the motion so let's open this to the public anyone would like to comment on this closed public hearing bring it back for a motion all right with respect to property located at 6775 Wing Lake Road I would move to grant the permission request for the hot tub because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42 there 7.6 standards the size use and location of the structure is compatible with the Jane adjacent properties and will not hinder or discourage the use of adjacent properties and things of this nature are harmonious with the neighborhood if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits on there will not protect them from the ends of the어� quince there are some other important secret must be obtained prior to installation of the hot tub I I think your screening is sufficient so I'm not going to add a condition on that we'll see whether that flies or not support motion and support any discussion I'm okay with that I mean I'm sitting on the fence we're open-minded on the board so I think you get my vote so I think the trees he had planted there makes sense okay all those in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you so calling item 3 1500 Kirkway good afternoon or evening Matt Mosier representing the homeowners of 1500 Kirkway Road we have a few variances here to go over with you this evening I'll start in the front this house is being built and came before you guys I don't know maybe a couple years ago at

  14. location of the structure is compatible with the Jane adjacent properties and will not hinder or discourage the use of adjacent properties and things of this nature are harmonious with the neighborhood if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits on there will not protect them from the ends of the어� quince there are some other important secret must be obtained prior to installation of the hot tub I I think your screening is sufficient so I'm not going to add a condition on that we'll see whether that flies or not support motion and support any discussion I'm okay with that I mean I'm sitting on the fence we're open-minded on the board so I think you get my vote so I think the trees he had planted there makes sense okay all those in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you so calling item 3 1500 Kirkway good afternoon or evening Matt Mosier representing the homeowners of 1500 Kirkway Road we have a few variances here to go over with you this evening I'll start in the front this house is being built and came before you guys I don't know maybe a couple years ago at this point part of that approval there was a driveway gate and piers or gates and piers that has since expired and the gate has since been redesigned just aesthetically this gate is four feet tall on each entry the piers are five five feet tall or four and a half feet tall five feet sorry I was thinking of another case yeah five feet tall and then Along with these driveway gates, there are additional piers nicely spaced across the front yard. This particular home resides in what I would call kind of an estate district of the township. Very nice neighborhood, and these type of features are quite common. These piers are purely aesthetic and help to balance the architecture of the house. The house is quite close to the road, so they help to dissipate that architecture out. No fencing in between those, just hedging, and helps with some privacy from the road as well. In the center is just a man-made small bowl fountain that sits in the driveway, because that's more than nine inches tall. That needs your look.

  15. front this house is being built and came before you guys I don't know maybe a couple years ago at this point part of that approval there was a driveway gate and piers or gates and piers that has since expired and the gate has since been redesigned just aesthetically this gate is four feet tall on each entry the piers are five five feet tall or four and a half feet tall five feet sorry I was thinking of another case yeah five feet tall and then Along with these driveway gates, there are additional piers nicely spaced across the front yard. This particular home resides in what I would call kind of an estate district of the township. Very nice neighborhood, and these type of features are quite common. These piers are purely aesthetic and help to balance the architecture of the house. The house is quite close to the road, so they help to dissipate that architecture out. No fencing in between those, just hedging, and helps with some privacy from the road as well. In the center is just a man-made small bowl fountain that sits in the driveway, because that's more than nine inches tall. That needs your look. That's just, like I said, like a simple, almost a walkable with just a small fountain in it. As we go to the backyard, there is a gas fire pit on the north side of the house. This area in the back is kind of a sunken area, I would call it. So from the road, you actually can't even see back there. It's got retaining and things like that. And then the last item is we're requesting a boardwalk. They're planning on just leaving the natural vegetation along the lake, so we recommended to them a slightly suspended boardwalk that allows for water flow, drainage, critters to live underneath. The roadmap of San Francisco, Texas, Texas, University of California, Texas, Texas, Illinois, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, California, Texas, Arizona, Texas, Texas, Te You all the stuff that helps the environment that would just be a composite wood top and be pretty pretty minimalistic and tasteful to the property so with that being said I'd be happy to answer any questions you guys have. Can I just ask a quick question if it's okay with the chair? It's okay with me. Thank you. Our office had reached out to your you today unfortunately we're able to touch base I'm my question is is the line that's showing traversing the front of the

  16. That needs your look. That's just, like I said, like a simple, almost a walkable with just a small fountain in it. As we go to the backyard, there is a gas fire pit on the north side of the house. This area in the back is kind of a sunken area, I would call it. So from the road, you actually can't even see back there. It's got retaining and things like that. And then the last item is we're requesting a boardwalk. They're planning on just leaving the natural vegetation along the lake, so we recommended to them a slightly suspended boardwalk that allows for water flow, drainage, critters to live underneath. The roadmap of San Francisco, Texas, Texas, University of California, Texas, Texas, Illinois, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, Texas, California, Texas, Arizona, Texas, Texas, Te You all the stuff that helps the environment that would just be a composite wood top and be pretty pretty minimalistic and tasteful to the property so with that being said I'd be happy to answer any questions you guys have. Can I just ask a quick question if it's okay with the chair? It's okay with me. Thank you. Our office had reached out to your you today unfortunately we're able to touch base I'm my question is is the line that's showing traversing the front of the property at what point is it within the right-of-way versus private property because it appears that based on this drawing that there appears to be some structures that are actually within the right-of-way so I just wanted to we want to get clarification on that and maybe you'd be prepared to answer that. Yeah I noticed that Andrea so that one masonry pier needs to move back just to the property line right there the dark black line. Well the fountain's in the right-of-way. Yeah well it's we can move it back it's portable so if that's an issue just move it back. The rest is just landscape. So just a reminder that this board has no authority to grant anything within the public right-of-way so I just want to bring that to that attention into the board as well. Generally what I've done in these is because it's a portable unit and I'm putting under it I can usually get a quick permit from Oakland County right or the Oakland County Road Commission so if the board doesn't have a problem with it we can make it a condition that it has to be approved by Oakland County Road Commission if that's possible I don't know. And then my very last comment then would be a reminder that the Township itself actually does have their own right of way destruction permit that you would secure after Oakland County Road Commission so could we make that I can I don't know I haven't dealt with that before but we could I'm happy to make it a condition if that's an issue it's a very tight lot compared to the street

  17. I'm my question is is the line that's showing traversing the front of the property at what point is it within the right-of-way versus private property because it appears that based on this drawing that there appears to be some structures that are actually within the right-of-way so I just wanted to we want to get clarification on that and maybe you'd be prepared to answer that. Yeah I noticed that Andrea so that one masonry pier needs to move back just to the property line right there the dark black line. Well the fountain's in the right-of-way. Yeah well it's we can move it back it's portable so if that's an issue just move it back. The rest is just landscape. So just a reminder that this board has no authority to grant anything within the public right-of-way so I just want to bring that to that attention into the board as well. Generally what I've done in these is because it's a portable unit and I'm putting under it I can usually get a quick permit from Oakland County right or the Oakland County Road Commission so if the board doesn't have a problem with it we can make it a condition that it has to be approved by Oakland County Road Commission if that's possible I don't know. And then my very last comment then would be a reminder that the Township itself actually does have their own right of way destruction permit that you would secure after Oakland County Road Commission so could we make that I can I don't know I haven't dealt with that before but we could I'm happy to make it a condition if that's an issue it's a very tight lot compared to the street right there it's a little tough any other questions observations or feedback for the applicant okay I'm a little concerned with putting anything into the right-of-way okay so I would be looking for you to push everything out of the right-of-way I am also not feeling the love for the additional peers okay between the gates I don't see any reason for those at all so that's you know kind of where I'm coming from and Carol is that just aesthetic I mean I know we've got a lot of these I think it's aesthetics but it's also you know to me it's just out of place just having these random peers stuck across the front and I think it also leads to somebody saying well geez I have these peers why can't I attach a fence in between them okay I see a potential problem in the future so I you know I can understand why you're asking for the gates but I don't see the need for the peers that's just my personal opinion

  18. a condition if that's an issue it's a very tight lot compared to the street right there it's a little tough any other questions observations or feedback for the applicant okay I'm a little concerned with putting anything into the right-of-way okay so I would be looking for you to push everything out of the right-of-way I am also not feeling the love for the additional peers okay between the gates I don't see any reason for those at all so that's you know kind of where I'm coming from and Carol is that just aesthetic I mean I know we've got a lot of these I think it's aesthetics but it's also you know to me it's just out of place just having these random peers stuck across the front and I think it also leads to somebody saying well geez I have these peers why can't I attach a fence in between them okay I see a potential problem in the future so I you know I can understand why you're asking for the gates but I don't see the need for the peers that's just my personal opinion I've noticed there are other gates in the neighborhood. Are there any other ones, any houses around, surrounding that have the piers and the... I mean, I don't know exact addresses, but there's a lot of piers around. As you know, I think you might be new to the board relatively recently, but I'm here. Please educate me. I've gotten a lot of piers approved, but I'm, as you guys know, very respectful of the thoughts that you guys have and happy to take your comments and respond accordingly. I don't remember you ever having just random piers like this, though. They've always been connected to something. Yeah, like a wall with some piers. Yeah, with a partial wall or something like that, but this is sort of different. You mentioned hedging. Are you planning on putting landscaping between the piers or just... Yeah, it's just a nice, clean, you know, because if you take, like, hedging and you just work it around with no stonework, it just looks a little... It doesn't give it a nice architectural detail because that house is massive along that road. Just bringing a little bit of that architecture out, adding that hedging, both from the neighbor's perspective of giving it a little buffer and from their own privacy, it's just a nice design detail, in my opinion. Any other feedback or comments for the applicant before I open the public hearing?

  19. I've noticed there are other gates in the neighborhood. Are there any other ones, any houses around, surrounding that have the piers and the... I mean, I don't know exact addresses, but there's a lot of piers around. As you know, I think you might be new to the board relatively recently, but I'm here. Please educate me. I've gotten a lot of piers approved, but I'm, as you guys know, very respectful of the thoughts that you guys have and happy to take your comments and respond accordingly. I don't remember you ever having just random piers like this, though. They've always been connected to something. Yeah, like a wall with some piers. Yeah, with a partial wall or something like that, but this is sort of different. You mentioned hedging. Are you planning on putting landscaping between the piers or just... Yeah, it's just a nice, clean, you know, because if you take, like, hedging and you just work it around with no stonework, it just looks a little... It doesn't give it a nice architectural detail because that house is massive along that road. Just bringing a little bit of that architecture out, adding that hedging, both from the neighbor's perspective of giving it a little buffer and from their own privacy, it's just a nice design detail, in my opinion. Any other feedback or comments for the applicant before I open the public hearing? All right, I'll open the public hearing. Anyone like to comment on this item? Close the public hearing, then. Bring it back. Discussion? Motion? Just some discussion. I agree with Carol. See you later. What the hell? I don't know. on um i don't feel comfortable putting in the right away but i understand the architectural detail associated with that the house it has a pretty big scale so trying to have some natural elements with the hedging as well as some stone work that matches the home i get it this area has that there are several homes in this area that have that and they put that detail in so i don't have a problem with the piers they're not random they are designed as part of your landscape plan but i don't feel comfortable putting them in the right away yeah and i understand it's a narrow lot though i i also get that i have no problem as a condition making sure and if it's staff can look at it we can move that pier out of the right away and the pier and the fireball yeah yep and the fountain bowl yeah all that's got to be shoved back okay mr chairman i'd like to make a motion sure i think you've got the kinks worked out yeah so we're going to go with the um permission request so in regards to the appeal at uh 1500 kirkway for the permission request um for the um fire gas fire table piers water feature fountain

  20. Any other feedback or comments for the applicant before I open the public hearing? All right, I'll open the public hearing. Anyone like to comment on this item? Close the public hearing, then. Bring it back. Discussion? Motion? Just some discussion. I agree with Carol. See you later. What the hell? I don't know. on um i don't feel comfortable putting in the right away but i understand the architectural detail associated with that the house it has a pretty big scale so trying to have some natural elements with the hedging as well as some stone work that matches the home i get it this area has that there are several homes in this area that have that and they put that detail in so i don't have a problem with the piers they're not random they are designed as part of your landscape plan but i don't feel comfortable putting them in the right away yeah and i understand it's a narrow lot though i i also get that i have no problem as a condition making sure and if it's staff can look at it we can move that pier out of the right away and the pier and the fireball yeah yep and the fountain bowl yeah all that's got to be shoved back okay mr chairman i'd like to make a motion sure i think you've got the kinks worked out yeah so we're going to go with the um permission request so in regards to the appeal at uh 1500 kirkway for the permission request um for the um fire gas fire table piers water feature fountain i move the variance be approved as amended based information presented the advocate did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter ordinance be unduly burdensome because again we have a tight lot here so again where they're putting it the size of the home and scale um that all is appropriate there is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of several neighbors have things as well as unique circumstances of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that again it is narrow. This doesn't have as much of a setback as some of the other properties along this road. This is not self-created because of the fact again the lot size was a limitation regardless how big the house was. Second for the dimensional variance for the pier gates and water feature in the front yard. For the appeal at 1500 for the accessory structures which I just mentioned I move the variance be approved again as amended. The amendment is they will not be in the right of way. Based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of these accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood because other neighbors in this area have peers, other neighbors have gates, they have fire bowls, and they have that boardwalk walkway going to that beautiful water feature. Now if this

  21. uh 1500 kirkway for the permission request um for the um fire gas fire table piers water feature fountain i move the variance be approved as amended based information presented the advocate did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter ordinance be unduly burdensome because again we have a tight lot here so again where they're putting it the size of the home and scale um that all is appropriate there is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of several neighbors have things as well as unique circumstances of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that again it is narrow. This doesn't have as much of a setback as some of the other properties along this road. This is not self-created because of the fact again the lot size was a limitation regardless how big the house was. Second for the dimensional variance for the pier gates and water feature in the front yard. For the appeal at 1500 for the accessory structures which I just mentioned I move the variance be approved again as amended. The amendment is they will not be in the right of way. Based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of these accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood because other neighbors in this area have peers, other neighbors have gates, they have fire bowls, and they have that boardwalk walkway going to that beautiful water feature. Now if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And then I'm not going to require any additional evergreen screenings at this time for the gas fireplace, the gates, or the water feature. Support. So I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request as modified is approved. I'm on this one too. I'm here to represent the homeowners Matt Mosier at 5766 Kenmore. I think this one's pretty simple. this one is for an attached pergola to the house which is highlighted in the yellow that her below will have a kind of a water we call rain curtain falling from that into the hot tub below it and then the hot tub itself is raised 12 inches out of the ground so that requires your look as well this property is already well screened and going to be even more well screened so none of this stuff should stand out to the neighbors and I feel it's fairly common everything

  22. fire bowls, and they have that boardwalk walkway going to that beautiful water feature. Now if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And then I'm not going to require any additional evergreen screenings at this time for the gas fireplace, the gates, or the water feature. Support. So I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request as modified is approved. I'm on this one too. I'm here to represent the homeowners Matt Mosier at 5766 Kenmore. I think this one's pretty simple. this one is for an attached pergola to the house which is highlighted in the yellow that her below will have a kind of a water we call rain curtain falling from that into the hot tub below it and then the hot tub itself is raised 12 inches out of the ground so that requires your look as well this property is already well screened and going to be even more well screened so none of this stuff should stand out to the neighbors and I feel it's fairly common everything is well within the setbacks and as always we try to make it as tasteful as possible happy to answer any questions does anyone have any questions at this time is there any additional evergreen screening that you're gonna do because it is 10 feet I don't know if your screening is 10 feet is it 10 feet the lot line yeah I mean well we have 10 to 12 for being proposed if you guys want that Chris if it's fine with me you know we've got a nice client who's good with it and I know I know you like screening I want your client to be able to invest by minimally impacting your neighbors so that's great yeah happy to happy to accommodate I'll open this to the public and say we'd like to comment on this item and I'll close the public hearing bring it back for further discussion or a motion mr. chairman we won't make a motion thank you Ed okay in regard to the appeal at 5 7 6 Kenmore Road. I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the use of these structures is

  23. stuff should stand out to the neighbors and I feel it's fairly common everything is well within the setbacks and as always we try to make it as tasteful as possible happy to answer any questions does anyone have any questions at this time is there any additional evergreen screening that you're gonna do because it is 10 feet I don't know if your screening is 10 feet is it 10 feet the lot line yeah I mean well we have 10 to 12 for being proposed if you guys want that Chris if it's fine with me you know we've got a nice client who's good with it and I know I know you like screening I want your client to be able to invest by minimally impacting your neighbors so that's great yeah happy to happy to accommodate I'll open this to the public and say we'd like to comment on this item and I'll close the public hearing bring it back for further discussion or a motion mr. chairman we won't make a motion thank you Ed okay in regard to the appeal at 5 7 6 Kenmore Road. I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the use of these structures is appropriate to the neighborhood given their popularity not only in the neighborhood but throughout the township. If approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to installation of the pergola and the raised spa and the evergreen plantings will be placed as discussed meaning providing full coverage so 10 to 12 foot whatever is required to completely protect or obscure site of this from the neighbors. And that would be the extent of the motion. No motion of support. Motion and I have support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations your request is granted. Appreciate it. Okay. So calling item 52746 Turtle Bluff Drive. Is the applicant here? Thank you, Mr.

  24. dash 7.6 standards because the use of these structures is appropriate to the neighborhood given their popularity not only in the neighborhood but throughout the township. If approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to installation of the pergola and the raised spa and the evergreen plantings will be placed as discussed meaning providing full coverage so 10 to 12 foot whatever is required to completely protect or obscure site of this from the neighbors. And that would be the extent of the motion. No motion of support. Motion and I have support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations your request is granted. Appreciate it. Okay. So calling item 52746 Turtle Bluff Drive. Is the applicant here? Thank you, Mr. I am fine oh okay good evening my name is Ellen Yerkes I'm with Antoni landscape representing dr. Oscar at 2746 turtle bluff drive our project is set in a beautiful neighborhood if you're familiar with it and their backyard happens to have a very significant slope which is why we're here today just by the elevations needed to retain a flat space for their patio they currently don't have a backyard patio set up at all it's a bit of like more of a walkway so we've designed some retaining walls for safety and stability engineering the ground up you can see that bottom left thank you bottom left picture kind of showing the actual grade and what we're gonna have to do to level out that space so the piers end up being taller than you would see from the home or adjacent but they don't have a back neighbor down this slope it's like way down and then a road if there's existing photos I don't know if you can put them up yep that's the backyard that's it that actually is perfect because the view to the backyard

  25. I am fine oh okay good evening my name is Ellen Yerkes I'm with Antoni landscape representing dr. Oscar at 2746 turtle bluff drive our project is set in a beautiful neighborhood if you're familiar with it and their backyard happens to have a very significant slope which is why we're here today just by the elevations needed to retain a flat space for their patio they currently don't have a backyard patio set up at all it's a bit of like more of a walkway so we've designed some retaining walls for safety and stability engineering the ground up you can see that bottom left thank you bottom left picture kind of showing the actual grade and what we're gonna have to do to level out that space so the piers end up being taller than you would see from the home or adjacent but they don't have a back neighbor down this slope it's like way down and then a road if there's existing photos I don't know if you can put them up yep that's the backyard that's it that actually is perfect because the view to the backyard that hill goes all the way down to that road there it's a very steep and we're going to be very cautious with our machines So we're proposing the outdoor amenities here with a counter, piers, and the fireplace in the center that also has a water spillover in the center to complement the architecture of this home. The size of that patio makes sense, and we don't have any additional interference with the neighboring properties. It's all kept within the corners of their house. Any questions? I think Chris may have a question or two. Go ahead. So electric landscaping plan, and it doesn't look like there's any landscaping along the retaining wall. There's a slight amount right there on the bottom left corner where it is softscaped. There is not a plan to have any plants behind there due to the lack of maintenance that they would provide to them.

  26. the backyard that's it that actually is perfect because the view to the backyard that hill goes all the way down to that road there it's a very steep and we're going to be very cautious with our machines So we're proposing the outdoor amenities here with a counter, piers, and the fireplace in the center that also has a water spillover in the center to complement the architecture of this home. The size of that patio makes sense, and we don't have any additional interference with the neighboring properties. It's all kept within the corners of their house. Any questions? I think Chris may have a question or two. Go ahead. So electric landscaping plan, and it doesn't look like there's any landscaping along the retaining wall. There's a slight amount right there on the bottom left corner where it is softscaped. There is not a plan to have any plants behind there due to the lack of maintenance that they would provide to them. So I believe our ordinance states that we have to, right, it's over five feet. Which side is the nine-foot side where you're showing, that's the nine-foot side? It would be the lower end further from the house where the slope is lower. So the further away it gets from the house, the bigger the slope. And that is the side that the roadside sees. So if I'm at the road looking up at this beautiful home, I'm going to see this retaining wall, and then they have the flat surface, correct? That's correct. Yeah. So it has to be... be screened or not sure I would have to read the ordinances I'm not sure that is the case for this wall may I get planning review well we do have a retaining wall ordinance if this is truly considered a retaining wall which in this instance it truly is retaining the patio we do have an ordinance that does require that walls that are considered higher than four feet do have to be screened so we do have a requirement for a wall that height to have some evergreen softening that was the discussion in the Foxcroft the property correct and we enforce them to put significant screening in yes we did so I can understand that I would as a landscaper would ask if this is necessary to be another row of arborvitaes in Bloomfield Township or if we

  27. There is not a plan to have any plants behind there due to the lack of maintenance that they would provide to them. So I believe our ordinance states that we have to, right, it's over five feet. Which side is the nine-foot side where you're showing, that's the nine-foot side? It would be the lower end further from the house where the slope is lower. So the further away it gets from the house, the bigger the slope. And that is the side that the roadside sees. So if I'm at the road looking up at this beautiful home, I'm going to see this retaining wall, and then they have the flat surface, correct? That's correct. Yeah. So it has to be... be screened or not sure I would have to read the ordinances I'm not sure that is the case for this wall may I get planning review well we do have a retaining wall ordinance if this is truly considered a retaining wall which in this instance it truly is retaining the patio we do have an ordinance that does require that walls that are considered higher than four feet do have to be screened so we do have a requirement for a wall that height to have some evergreen softening that was the discussion in the Foxcroft the property correct and we enforce them to put significant screening in yes we did so I can understand that I would as a landscaper would ask if this is necessary to be another row of arborvitaes in Bloomfield Township or if we could mix that up with something shorter because the view would be totally disturbed as you can see it overlooks that lake I understand we're not sure I think the spirit of it is to soften the brick from the retaining wall okay that's doable huh that is doable so I think that's the spirit of it because again when you look at the back of that house obviously it's beautiful but it'll be a lot of hardscape associated with it and the neighbors across the street gonna see that right and it's not like it's not good materials it is beautiful sure but I can't hold you I can't hold other people to a standard and that holds you to it wouldn't expect you to that's no so so you want me to upsell some plans to my customers That's not what I wanted to do. You're being our requirements. So you're not upset. I would be able to comply to that, and I know that they'll understand the advancement of softening that wall. So whatever motion may or may not pass, we'll include some type of provision for that, and then you, as a landscaper, can come with a creative solution to how you'd soften it. Absolutely. It doesn't have to be another row of arborvitaes. Yeah, you seem to be opposed to arborvitaes. I am here, yeah. Yeah, I sense the frustration in your voice. The deer are eating these things, so it's a bummer. You don't like the arborvitae in Bloomfield?

  28. necessary to be another row of arborvitaes in Bloomfield Township or if we could mix that up with something shorter because the view would be totally disturbed as you can see it overlooks that lake I understand we're not sure I think the spirit of it is to soften the brick from the retaining wall okay that's doable huh that is doable so I think that's the spirit of it because again when you look at the back of that house obviously it's beautiful but it'll be a lot of hardscape associated with it and the neighbors across the street gonna see that right and it's not like it's not good materials it is beautiful sure but I can't hold you I can't hold other people to a standard and that holds you to it wouldn't expect you to that's no so so you want me to upsell some plans to my customers That's not what I wanted to do. You're being our requirements. So you're not upset. I would be able to comply to that, and I know that they'll understand the advancement of softening that wall. So whatever motion may or may not pass, we'll include some type of provision for that, and then you, as a landscaper, can come with a creative solution to how you'd soften it. Absolutely. It doesn't have to be another row of arborvitaes. Yeah, you seem to be opposed to arborvitaes. I am here, yeah. Yeah, I sense the frustration in your voice. The deer are eating these things, so it's a bummer. You don't like the arborvitae in Bloomfield? I love them in the right places, but also let's remember that they grow a certain height. They're also eaten up by the deer, and so they're not really beautiful in five years. They only worked two. Well, the great thing is in this case, you get to choose. I'm going to. It's ever graded and it's greens. We're going to use a nice, like, Green Mountain boxwood. There'll be a nice height for it. It's about four feet high. Okay. So that's my question for direction for the staff. If a motion, I just want the board to be clear so that when we go out there in the field, we have an understanding of the expectation of the height. What I'm hearing is softening versus screening, so I guess I just would ask for direction, whatever the determination is from the board. What does the ordinance say? The ordinance says it has to be screened to a certain percentage. Like 80%, right? Some percentage associated with the wall coverage. At time of planting, right? Yes. I know, so, again. Well, again, it's also. It's. We can put reasonable conditions on the grant of any variance, so regardless, if the ordinance said 20%, we could make it more. I just, while they're thinking about that, I just want to make sure that there isn't any area that somebody could fall off.

  29. You don't like the arborvitae in Bloomfield? I love them in the right places, but also let's remember that they grow a certain height. They're also eaten up by the deer, and so they're not really beautiful in five years. They only worked two. Well, the great thing is in this case, you get to choose. I'm going to. It's ever graded and it's greens. We're going to use a nice, like, Green Mountain boxwood. There'll be a nice height for it. It's about four feet high. Okay. So that's my question for direction for the staff. If a motion, I just want the board to be clear so that when we go out there in the field, we have an understanding of the expectation of the height. What I'm hearing is softening versus screening, so I guess I just would ask for direction, whatever the determination is from the board. What does the ordinance say? The ordinance says it has to be screened to a certain percentage. Like 80%, right? Some percentage associated with the wall coverage. At time of planting, right? Yes. I know, so, again. Well, again, it's also. It's. We can put reasonable conditions on the grant of any variance, so regardless, if the ordinance said 20%, we could make it more. I just, while they're thinking about that, I just want to make sure that there isn't any area that somebody could fall off. There's going to be a fence or something solid. Correct. Okay. In fact, that photo you see. Sometimes you can't tell by the photo. No, you can see it at the top. That photo above is the exact railing we'll be using. And we're using piers to connect the railing, so it's actually mimicking the architecture of the home. I think it has to be. So absolutely, yeah, it would be scary to deal with that. We actually had one where somebody wasn't going to put one, so that's why I had to ask. 75% is what the ordinance calls for, for walls that are taller than four feet. Which is three feet. No, 75% of the height of the wall. Oh, not of four feet. That's what I thought you just said. Oh, what's the word? Opacity. Opacity. There you go. Opacity. Oh, okay. Opacity. And how high is your wall? Nine feet, right? Nine feet. So you'd be, yeah. I mean, it'd be, I'd be like eight. Just over, almost seven feet. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, understood. We, um, we have, we have some height. I mean, I could, yeah. I think the Green Mountain Boxwoods would be that height. I thought the box.

  30. I just, while they're thinking about that, I just want to make sure that there isn't any area that somebody could fall off. There's going to be a fence or something solid. Correct. Okay. In fact, that photo you see. Sometimes you can't tell by the photo. No, you can see it at the top. That photo above is the exact railing we'll be using. And we're using piers to connect the railing, so it's actually mimicking the architecture of the home. I think it has to be. So absolutely, yeah, it would be scary to deal with that. We actually had one where somebody wasn't going to put one, so that's why I had to ask. 75% is what the ordinance calls for, for walls that are taller than four feet. Which is three feet. No, 75% of the height of the wall. Oh, not of four feet. That's what I thought you just said. Oh, what's the word? Opacity. Opacity. There you go. Opacity. Oh, okay. Opacity. And how high is your wall? Nine feet, right? Nine feet. So you'd be, yeah. I mean, it'd be, I'd be like eight. Just over, almost seven feet. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, understood. We, um, we have, we have some height. I mean, I could, yeah. I think the Green Mountain Boxwoods would be that height. I thought the box. disease was thrown all through the township. They struggled with that last year. Yeah, they sure did. So are we ready for a motion? We didn't open the public hearing. Oh, I'm sorry. I'd like to open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this? Closed public hearing and bring it back. I would love to make a motion on this. Yep. Well, you're a specialist. Well, that was, well, a little of both. I was screening, retaining walls. Yeah, sorry about that. Chris, you're a specialist. Designated motion maker. So in regards to the appeal at, I'm going to go with the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 2746 Turtle Bluff Drive, I move that the accessory structure, which is the gas fire replace, be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood and throughout the township. Second, for the dimensional variance. In regards to the same address at 2746 Turtle Bluff Road, the dimensional variance for a seven-foot-high retaining wall, which exceeds a four-foot in height. Is it seven or is it seven or nine?

  31. disease was thrown all through the township. They struggled with that last year. Yeah, they sure did. So are we ready for a motion? We didn't open the public hearing. Oh, I'm sorry. I'd like to open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this? Closed public hearing and bring it back. I would love to make a motion on this. Yep. Well, you're a specialist. Well, that was, well, a little of both. I was screening, retaining walls. Yeah, sorry about that. Chris, you're a specialist. Designated motion maker. So in regards to the appeal at, I'm going to go with the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 2746 Turtle Bluff Drive, I move that the accessory structure, which is the gas fire replace, be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood and throughout the township. Second, for the dimensional variance. In regards to the same address at 2746 Turtle Bluff Road, the dimensional variance for a seven-foot-high retaining wall, which exceeds a four-foot in height. Is it seven or is it seven or nine? It's probably eight. We asked for nine in the zoning. Do we, what do we notice? That was specifically for the- Seven. Wait. It says seven. It says seven. here it says with illuminated piers at nine feet high so the piers are the nine foot oh due to the height of the lamp yeah so the pier but the retaining wall that which is the only thing we're talking yes seven we'll talk about all that in a second when we get down to it so um i move the variance be uh approved as requested basic information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance particularly ordinance be unduly burdensome because again topography changes on this property would make their backyard unusable uh there is no injustice to adjoining by the reason of we're going to be screening it to an appropriate way unique circumstance of the property have been demonstrated again topography this is not self-created again the slope of that backyard makes the backyard unusable that's not what we want here in bloomfield now um the screening the screening we're going to talk about for the seven

  32. a seven-foot-high retaining wall, which exceeds a four-foot in height. Is it seven or is it seven or nine? It's probably eight. We asked for nine in the zoning. Do we, what do we notice? That was specifically for the- Seven. Wait. It says seven. It says seven. here it says with illuminated piers at nine feet high so the piers are the nine foot oh due to the height of the lamp yeah so the pier but the retaining wall that which is the only thing we're talking yes seven we'll talk about all that in a second when we get down to it so um i move the variance be uh approved as requested basic information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance particularly ordinance be unduly burdensome because again topography changes on this property would make their backyard unusable uh there is no injustice to adjoining by the reason of we're going to be screening it to an appropriate way unique circumstance of the property have been demonstrated again topography this is not self-created again the slope of that backyard makes the backyard unusable that's not what we want here in bloomfield now um the screening the screening we're going to talk about for the seven feet okay so the retaining wall is the part we're screening or as part of my motion we're going to be screening we're going to do 75 percent of that which gets us into the four and a half foot to five foot range so they have to be some type of evergreen tree so that is my requirement i'm not going to require you to screen the peers as part of it if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and i'll permits must be obtained prior to the installation and then uh the screenings as we discuss will be planted and must be within public view and exceed the height as we discussed for the seven foot at the time of planting support i have a motion to support any discussion all's in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is great thank you for working with me appreciate it thank you for working with us uh so calling item 64294 pine tree trail

  33. want here in bloomfield now um the screening the screening we're going to talk about for the seven feet okay so the retaining wall is the part we're screening or as part of my motion we're going to be screening we're going to do 75 percent of that which gets us into the four and a half foot to five foot range so they have to be some type of evergreen tree so that is my requirement i'm not going to require you to screen the peers as part of it if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and i'll permits must be obtained prior to the installation and then uh the screenings as we discuss will be planted and must be within public view and exceed the height as we discussed for the seven foot at the time of planting support i have a motion to support any discussion all's in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is great thank you for working with me appreciate it thank you for working with us uh so calling item 64294 pine tree trail okay i thought i was leaving but uh you got retained on the way out yeah i got retained on the way out to preserve um i actually designed this project a long time ago i didn't realize it was coming in front of the board tonight the landscape uh installer had submitted it that's a quick quick prep though for you i'm i'm reading notes i'm looking at everything um okay so i need a little bit of clarification andrea so it says that uh we've got a retaining wall that's less than eight feet apart i've got the dimension plan front of wall to front of wall is eight feet exactly so can you maybe tell me where what wall work i think it's the the walls for the uh it's at the bottom of the screen close to where pine tree trail is written those are the tiered walls? I think it's the one in back because it talks about the sheer descent coming out of the end of the spa. Okay, so the yellow portion to the top with the two squares and the center waterfall, those are features for the pool. No, I know that. Okay. And over on the right where it says two three-foot-high retaining walls, that's an eight feet of separation encroaching 11 feet. Note that the first wall contains a 10-foot-long sheer descent. So that's the one that's in the spa. So I think there's a mistake because on the plan, in between

  34. okay i thought i was leaving but uh you got retained on the way out yeah i got retained on the way out to preserve um i actually designed this project a long time ago i didn't realize it was coming in front of the board tonight the landscape uh installer had submitted it that's a quick quick prep though for you i'm i'm reading notes i'm looking at everything um okay so i need a little bit of clarification andrea so it says that uh we've got a retaining wall that's less than eight feet apart i've got the dimension plan front of wall to front of wall is eight feet exactly so can you maybe tell me where what wall work i think it's the the walls for the uh it's at the bottom of the screen close to where pine tree trail is written those are the tiered walls? I think it's the one in back because it talks about the sheer descent coming out of the end of the spa. Okay, so the yellow portion to the top with the two squares and the center waterfall, those are features for the pool. No, I know that. Okay. And over on the right where it says two three-foot-high retaining walls, that's an eight feet of separation encroaching 11 feet. Note that the first wall contains a 10-foot-long sheer descent. So that's the one that's in the spa. So I think there's a mistake because on the plan, in between wall to back of wall is seven feet, but front of wall to front of wall is eight feet. So that wouldn't need a variance, I don't think. Okay, so we have a lot of public comment on this tonight, so I guess I'm apprehensive to determine what is correct versus, I mean, I can pull the plan, but. Yeah, they gave me the plan which matches my plan from two years ago, so. I just want to clarify that because I don't know that it needs a variance on that particular item. Mr. Chairman? How about you talk about everything except for that? Yeah. So Tom, basically seven feet from here to the back, but you measure from the back to the front and that wall's a little wide. So it's an eight-foot, there's an eight-foot gap which is the code. And then while you're looking at that, just to click clear. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. on that back wall, on our plan, we had it 16 feet from the property line. Did you get a plan that's updated as closer? I think they're maybe as built. Oh, it's built? Yes. Okay. See, you know how much I know about this. It's okay.

  35. that's the one that's in the spa. So I think there's a mistake because on the plan, in between wall to back of wall is seven feet, but front of wall to front of wall is eight feet. So that wouldn't need a variance, I don't think. Okay, so we have a lot of public comment on this tonight, so I guess I'm apprehensive to determine what is correct versus, I mean, I can pull the plan, but. Yeah, they gave me the plan which matches my plan from two years ago, so. I just want to clarify that because I don't know that it needs a variance on that particular item. Mr. Chairman? How about you talk about everything except for that? Yeah. So Tom, basically seven feet from here to the back, but you measure from the back to the front and that wall's a little wide. So it's an eight-foot, there's an eight-foot gap which is the code. And then while you're looking at that, just to click clear. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. on that back wall, on our plan, we had it 16 feet from the property line. Did you get a plan that's updated as closer? I think they're maybe as built. Oh, it's built? Yes. Okay. See, you know how much I know about this. It's okay. I drove by it today. Okay. So you can walk the property. Got it. Front of the wall to the back. Okay. That's what it is. Perfect. So the plan says something, correct? Okay. So it looks like it was built closer to the property line than what I'm understanding. Is that correct, Andrea? Again, you're kind of in a situation because we had spoken with the applicant and they were prepared to address this and so now you're kind of getting stuck in the middle. Do they all want to address this? Yes. Yeah. I'm just trying to help, so I'm sorry. I'll let the guy that constructed tell you what he did. Hello, Alex Keddie, Luxury Resort Design Build. The walls are inner walls where the neighbor can't see it next to the house where the spa is. So those walls are only four feet and they have a four feet landing and another three and a half feet height wall. That's what they're at, exactly. So it is different than the plan? Correct. Correct. Okay. So we had to retain the elevation of the neighbors because their elevation shows a lot higher than what mammals are designed. So we had to add, we had to retain that earth to get the spa. So they're just going to brush them.

  36. It's okay. I drove by it today. Okay. So you can walk the property. Got it. Front of the wall to the back. Okay. That's what it is. Perfect. So the plan says something, correct? Okay. So it looks like it was built closer to the property line than what I'm understanding. Is that correct, Andrea? Again, you're kind of in a situation because we had spoken with the applicant and they were prepared to address this and so now you're kind of getting stuck in the middle. Do they all want to address this? Yes. Yeah. I'm just trying to help, so I'm sorry. I'll let the guy that constructed tell you what he did. Hello, Alex Keddie, Luxury Resort Design Build. The walls are inner walls where the neighbor can't see it next to the house where the spa is. So those walls are only four feet and they have a four feet landing and another three and a half feet height wall. That's what they're at, exactly. So it is different than the plan? Correct. Correct. Okay. So we had to retain the elevation of the neighbors because their elevation shows a lot higher than what mammals are designed. So we had to add, we had to retain that earth to get the spa. So they're just going to brush them. built in. So we had to build a four-feet wall, a four-feet landing for a landscape back, and another three and a half feet wall. Is the original four-foot wall at least 16 feet off your lot line? I think his property line goes further back. I'm a little uncomfortable knowing the public input and the uncertainty of the information that's being provided, to be honest, but... Yeah, I don't know what's going on. Yeah, the dimensions on this are very important, and it seems, you know, Matt, you're at a really tough spot, and a lot of public comment that we're going to get is, you know, how close the wall is to the property line and the height, and those things are very important numbers for us to have. There's a lot of brush over there already, the neighbor's trees, and that there's this has to be about 10 to 16 feet away from the property line where these walls were built, but we created it to retain the spot where it needs to be at. So we have a four-feet wall, and then a landing where the landscape shrubs going in, and then another three and a half feet wall that goes up. I'm looking at proposed wall locations for this thing.

  37. built in. So we had to build a four-feet wall, a four-feet landing for a landscape back, and another three and a half feet wall. Is the original four-foot wall at least 16 feet off your lot line? I think his property line goes further back. I'm a little uncomfortable knowing the public input and the uncertainty of the information that's being provided, to be honest, but... Yeah, I don't know what's going on. Yeah, the dimensions on this are very important, and it seems, you know, Matt, you're at a really tough spot, and a lot of public comment that we're going to get is, you know, how close the wall is to the property line and the height, and those things are very important numbers for us to have. There's a lot of brush over there already, the neighbor's trees, and that there's this has to be about 10 to 16 feet away from the property line where these walls were built, but we created it to retain the spot where it needs to be at. So we have a four-feet wall, and then a landing where the landscape shrubs going in, and then another three and a half feet wall that goes up. I'm looking at proposed wall locations for this thing. So you're telling me there's probably there's as-built, we could see what this looks like now? Sure. Just were submitted. Sure. Mr. Chairman? Yes. So, you had said that in the field something changed, right, and you guys had to make adjustments in the field? Correct. but it violated the variance and the plot plan that was approved so that's why we're here so but you can't tell me how far they are actually off because we don't have an as-built we just literally have the plot plan which is what the previous term was talking about and that's not necessarily your fault so I think before we can even view anything we need to have a surveyor do an as-built to know what was built and what is encroaching and not encroaching because I have variances that you're asking that I don't know if they're right so I can't I can't in good conscious vote on any of these things without knowing a true as-built and that's not necessarily your fault obviously we're working with other people but I don't feel comfortable going forward with anything if I don't have an as-built to actually know what he's off the property yeah these dimensions are very important so I don't we can't make a determination without the date so I understand we have a lot of public comment here but we can't even hear this comment without it so I would

  38. I'm looking at proposed wall locations for this thing. So you're telling me there's probably there's as-built, we could see what this looks like now? Sure. Just were submitted. Sure. Mr. Chairman? Yes. So, you had said that in the field something changed, right, and you guys had to make adjustments in the field? Correct. but it violated the variance and the plot plan that was approved so that's why we're here so but you can't tell me how far they are actually off because we don't have an as-built we just literally have the plot plan which is what the previous term was talking about and that's not necessarily your fault so I think before we can even view anything we need to have a surveyor do an as-built to know what was built and what is encroaching and not encroaching because I have variances that you're asking that I don't know if they're right so I can't I can't in good conscious vote on any of these things without knowing a true as-built and that's not necessarily your fault obviously we're working with other people but I don't feel comfortable going forward with anything if I don't have an as-built to actually know what he's off the property yeah these dimensions are very important so I don't we can't make a determination without the date so I understand we have a lot of public comment here but we can't even hear this comment without it so I would table it and give the applicant time to have a civil engineer come up with a survey and then re-notice all the neighbors and a stop work order on all that construction until that gets done that is my proposal I would have loved to hear everybody else on the board has to say how many people by raising your hands want to speak on this item came here tonight so we have one two we can tell the public comment yeah I I'd be inclined to take public you Yeah, I think we should. Because they've come to the meeting. Yeah, and I just don't want them to think that when we notice this again, that they're going to have to come back out and reissue their information as well. Yeah, so we may or, well, I don't know if it'll have to be renoticed or not. It's going to be renoticed regardless. Yeah, because. Some of this is coming at us a little unexpected as well. So we had been working with the previous applicant to verify setbacks in the field. We had a staff out there today verifying some measurements. So we felt we were in a good position. But now I'm hearing something that kind of counters that. So I think that it would be wise to follow the suggestion by Mr. Kalinske. And again, I applaud you for being honest and explaining what happened. Because anybody who builds in the field understands there are things that change. It's just the things you had to change create a domino effect.

  39. comment here but we can't even hear this comment without it so I would table it and give the applicant time to have a civil engineer come up with a survey and then re-notice all the neighbors and a stop work order on all that construction until that gets done that is my proposal I would have loved to hear everybody else on the board has to say how many people by raising your hands want to speak on this item came here tonight so we have one two we can tell the public comment yeah I I'd be inclined to take public you Yeah, I think we should. Because they've come to the meeting. Yeah, and I just don't want them to think that when we notice this again, that they're going to have to come back out and reissue their information as well. Yeah, so we may or, well, I don't know if it'll have to be renoticed or not. It's going to be renoticed regardless. Yeah, because. Some of this is coming at us a little unexpected as well. So we had been working with the previous applicant to verify setbacks in the field. We had a staff out there today verifying some measurements. So we felt we were in a good position. But now I'm hearing something that kind of counters that. So I think that it would be wise to follow the suggestion by Mr. Kalinske. And again, I applaud you for being honest and explaining what happened. Because anybody who builds in the field understands there are things that change. It's just the things you had to change create a domino effect. So, but again, you're trying to make sure it doesn't flood the neighbor's property. Not a problem. All right, so I have a procedural question then. So if we take the public comment, we have five people here. If it comes back, it would have to be the five of us to consider it, correct? Correct. If there's deliberation and discussion. So that's. Well, if we deliberate. That's not ideal. Yeah, if we deliberate. But you could open the public hearing and just not close it. We could continue the public hearing until the next meeting. I've never done that. Wow. Yes. You're the chair. You can do whatever you want, Mr. Chairman. Wow. Unrestrained power. Okay, so let's do that. I've never done that. So we're. just going to keep the public hearing open yeah as far as from the applicant's perspective if you could hear out what is about to be presented and then take that back to the principal so that they understand what that would help because we're really big about you know everybody getting along and respecting one another and being heard so if you could take that back and you know you could use that to come back with you know what you believe to be the most

  40. It's just the things you had to change create a domino effect. So, but again, you're trying to make sure it doesn't flood the neighbor's property. Not a problem. All right, so I have a procedural question then. So if we take the public comment, we have five people here. If it comes back, it would have to be the five of us to consider it, correct? Correct. If there's deliberation and discussion. So that's. Well, if we deliberate. That's not ideal. Yeah, if we deliberate. But you could open the public hearing and just not close it. We could continue the public hearing until the next meeting. I've never done that. Wow. Yes. You're the chair. You can do whatever you want, Mr. Chairman. Wow. Unrestrained power. Okay, so let's do that. I've never done that. So we're. just going to keep the public hearing open yeah as far as from the applicant's perspective if you could hear out what is about to be presented and then take that back to the principal so that they understand what that would help because we're really big about you know everybody getting along and respecting one another and being heard so if you could take that back and you know you could use that to come back with you know what you believe to be the most constructive recommendations it's gonna be a lot easier for us to approve if we know that it's not going to be a major issue for our constituents are you clear that what we're gonna do all right so I'm gonna open public hearing and those that like to speak we'll just come up one at a time I think you can kind of organize yourselves give me your name and address I'm William better at 1529 wrote and wrote and my our lot we have four homes around our lot we have our back lot line is 295 feet and we're talking about a hundred and five feet on this project here is on our lot lot line and last month they dug the hole for the pool And just about three weeks ago, they put the gunite in there and they framed it in, put the gunite in and they have the corner of the pool where the projected fire bowls, which we object to, 10 foot from our lot line.

  41. constructive recommendations it's gonna be a lot easier for us to approve if we know that it's not going to be a major issue for our constituents are you clear that what we're gonna do all right so I'm gonna open public hearing and those that like to speak we'll just come up one at a time I think you can kind of organize yourselves give me your name and address I'm William better at 1529 wrote and wrote and my our lot we have four homes around our lot we have our back lot line is 295 feet and we're talking about a hundred and five feet on this project here is on our lot lot line and last month they dug the hole for the pool And just about three weeks ago, they put the gunite in there and they framed it in, put the gunite in and they have the corner of the pool where the projected fire bowls, which we object to, 10 foot from our lot line. We've been there for, my wife has lived there for 50 years. I've been there for 33. And we've had a big change in the neighborhood. So that's fine. We really don't want to see this. But the way the plan is, can you put the plan up there? Well, that corner where the green arrow is, where the green velvet boxwood is, well, that's an area that is the most vulnerable or that we see through. And certainly boxwood aren't going to do it. We've got, there's a 10 foot space. I know where my lot line is. You don't have to go out there and measure the thing. And we want like 16 foot Norwegian spruce all the way along our lot line. And I think our neighbor as well, Josh Stern, he's got about 80 feet on his lot.

  42. And just about three weeks ago, they put the gunite in there and they framed it in, put the gunite in and they have the corner of the pool where the projected fire bowls, which we object to, 10 foot from our lot line. We've been there for, my wife has lived there for 50 years. I've been there for 33. And we've had a big change in the neighborhood. So that's fine. We really don't want to see this. But the way the plan is, can you put the plan up there? Well, that corner where the green arrow is, where the green velvet boxwood is, well, that's an area that is the most vulnerable or that we see through. And certainly boxwood aren't going to do it. We've got, there's a 10 foot space. I know where my lot line is. You don't have to go out there and measure the thing. And we want like 16 foot Norwegian spruce all the way along our lot line. And I think our neighbor as well, Josh Stern, he's got about 80 feet on his lot. line, and we want it fully screened, and they're going to have to interlace them and stagger them to get at least a full barrier at least seven feet up so that we don't have to look at anything, and we don't approve of the fire features that they have on the pool. Mr. Stern submitted a letter with pictures of an example of the Norwegian spruce and the staggering of it, so it's a pretty clear image of what. Mr. Could you put the other pictures of what the area looks like right now? Not that. Look, show the backyard. Okay, that's what the pool looks like now. No, that doesn't look right. We have multiple photographs that we have that we don't necessarily put everything in the PowerPoint, so if there's something in particular you're looking for, we can put it up on the screen. Well, when you look at our, from our backyard, the left corner is like 10 foot away, and they

  43. line, and we want it fully screened, and they're going to have to interlace them and stagger them to get at least a full barrier at least seven feet up so that we don't have to look at anything, and we don't approve of the fire features that they have on the pool. Mr. Stern submitted a letter with pictures of an example of the Norwegian spruce and the staggering of it, so it's a pretty clear image of what. Mr. Could you put the other pictures of what the area looks like right now? Not that. Look, show the backyard. Okay, that's what the pool looks like now. No, that doesn't look right. We have multiple photographs that we have that we don't necessarily put everything in the PowerPoint, so if there's something in particular you're looking for, we can put it up on the screen. Well, when you look at our, from our backyard, the left corner is like 10 foot away, and they want to put the, you know, what you've got in the sheet here is you want these pillars with the fire bowls on top of the pillars that are four foot high, and. And. well and that was in the letters as well there was a you know objection to that say close the line there seemed to be some disagreement over how far it was away so that's why the as builds are important so as long as they you know if they i don't we don't want the fire pots and but if they can go ahead and put norwegian spruce in you know that the 33 years that i've been living there i've planted three different kinds of abrobity i've planted uh different kinds of uh like colorado blue spruce and nothing survives the deer herd that walks through our backyard every day i mean the the abrobity that we've got are like 25 feet tall but they're all eaten up at least seven feet so we see under them and that's why we need the barrier back there to cover everything and so you're concerned about the fire pits they're too close to the lot line that's your real concern yeah i mean we've got you got big trees i mean in the fall and and well the

  44. Well, when you look at our, from our backyard, the left corner is like 10 foot away, and they want to put the, you know, what you've got in the sheet here is you want these pillars with the fire bowls on top of the pillars that are four foot high, and. And. well and that was in the letters as well there was a you know objection to that say close the line there seemed to be some disagreement over how far it was away so that's why the as builds are important so as long as they you know if they i don't we don't want the fire pots and but if they can go ahead and put norwegian spruce in you know that the 33 years that i've been living there i've planted three different kinds of abrobity i've planted uh different kinds of uh like colorado blue spruce and nothing survives the deer herd that walks through our backyard every day i mean the the abrobity that we've got are like 25 feet tall but they're all eaten up at least seven feet so we see under them and that's why we need the barrier back there to cover everything and so you're concerned about the fire pits they're too close to the lot line that's your real concern yeah i mean we've got you got big trees i mean in the fall and and well the other thing is i mean this yard is designed to be an entertainment center and so there's going to be a lot of people in there and whatever they're going to be doing i don't know but uh we would like protection we we like the way it was before it was very peaceful and this is going to be whole change and and the other three yards that we we have around us we have walked through lawns we don't have screening and i sort of expected the same thing and i wish i you had the pictures that i gave you especially the way they look the way this place looks now i mean he took took the whole hill out i mean we had a hill behind us that went went at least probably at least 10 feet above the lot line and it you just cut it all the way back and they have a full walkout so so i'm sorry does your wife want to speak do you yeah she's going to

  45. that's your real concern yeah i mean we've got you got big trees i mean in the fall and and well the other thing is i mean this yard is designed to be an entertainment center and so there's going to be a lot of people in there and whatever they're going to be doing i don't know but uh we would like protection we we like the way it was before it was very peaceful and this is going to be whole change and and the other three yards that we we have around us we have walked through lawns we don't have screening and i sort of expected the same thing and i wish i you had the pictures that i gave you especially the way they look the way this place looks now i mean he took took the whole hill out i mean we had a hill behind us that went went at least probably at least 10 feet above the lot line and it you just cut it all the way back and they have a full walkout so so i'm sorry does your wife want to speak do you yeah she's going to speak my husband is finished because i know he gets his time and i would like to get my time too because i have things i need to say to support what he says okay well i was just thinking since we're looking for the pictures maybe you could speak yeah sure i can do that yeah i'd like to introduce myself um good evening i'm geraldine jones vetter i have continuously owned and lived at 1529 groton road bluefield hills michigan for 50 years and eight months and i will continue to live I have no plans to move, and people around me, even the neighbors across the street, when they were thinking about building, they caught my husband and I when we were in the front yard, and they said, do you like it here? I said, there's no place better. And they built a gorgeous home, and they shared that with others, and now three of their four sons have built homes immediately around this house as well. I was a middle school district for 33.6 years, and I loved every moment,

  46. and they have a full walkout so so i'm sorry does your wife want to speak do you yeah she's going to speak my husband is finished because i know he gets his time and i would like to get my time too because i have things i need to say to support what he says okay well i was just thinking since we're looking for the pictures maybe you could speak yeah sure i can do that yeah i'd like to introduce myself um good evening i'm geraldine jones vetter i have continuously owned and lived at 1529 groton road bluefield hills michigan for 50 years and eight months and i will continue to live I have no plans to move, and people around me, even the neighbors across the street, when they were thinking about building, they caught my husband and I when we were in the front yard, and they said, do you like it here? I said, there's no place better. And they built a gorgeous home, and they shared that with others, and now three of their four sons have built homes immediately around this house as well. I was a middle school district for 33.6 years, and I loved every moment, and I took care of every child the best that I could. My job was to teach all the children, facilitating and maximizing all their learning experiences to the very best of my ability. Now, before I could do my job, I had to make sure our environment was safe, as safe as it could be for every child in the school. That was my job for 33.6 years. Now, doing my teaching to the best of my ability, in the best safe environment for all my children, and family and friends who come to visit at our home, they There we are. we're working on these sl aradaết visuals, run all over the property. They love the hills. They love to go up and down and roll, and they're in every nook and cranny. That's the way children are, and this is very, very important. We want the environment to be safe, and there are very hazardous fireballs that are totally

  47. I was a middle school district for 33.6 years, and I loved every moment, and I took care of every child the best that I could. My job was to teach all the children, facilitating and maximizing all their learning experiences to the very best of my ability. Now, before I could do my job, I had to make sure our environment was safe, as safe as it could be for every child in the school. That was my job for 33.6 years. Now, doing my teaching to the best of my ability, in the best safe environment for all my children, and family and friends who come to visit at our home, they There we are. we're working on these sl aradaết visuals, run all over the property. They love the hills. They love to go up and down and roll, and they're in every nook and cranny. That's the way children are, and this is very, very important. We want the environment to be safe, and there are very hazardous fireballs that are totally unacceptable. The fireballs being six feet into the easement. There should not be anything in the easement. It is totally unacceptable, and one of the pictures shows they can't even put vegetation, even any big trees in there, because there's no room. They built the pool too close to the easement, the property line, and everything. Now, we don't want the fireballs. This is a residential area, not commercial, and even the sign, when you go down Pound Tree Trail, there's an advertisement for the builder that this is going to be a commercial environment, and we've seen that many times, and I thought, I don't get what they're talking about, except I see it in the backyard, in their backyard, and this is a view from my kitchen window, and all the red that you see there to the right is around their place, and it's...

  48. We want the environment to be safe, and there are very hazardous fireballs that are totally unacceptable. The fireballs being six feet into the easement. There should not be anything in the easement. It is totally unacceptable, and one of the pictures shows they can't even put vegetation, even any big trees in there, because there's no room. They built the pool too close to the easement, the property line, and everything. Now, we don't want the fireballs. This is a residential area, not commercial, and even the sign, when you go down Pound Tree Trail, there's an advertisement for the builder that this is going to be a commercial environment, and we've seen that many times, and I thought, I don't get what they're talking about, except I see it in the backyard, in their backyard, and this is a view from my kitchen window, and all the red that you see there to the right is around their place, and it's... way too close to our property line. We do, I do support my husband and our next door neighbor, Josh Stern, who spoke to this, I believe, to you also, Brian Henry, about the 16-foot high Norwegian spruce because the deer eat everything, everything. It is really very, very disgusting. We need these Norwegian spruce, the 16-foot high, closely spaced so that we don't see any of this. And it would be, all of the trees would be on their property, on the Zier property side. We need your help. We really need your help. I have to have a safe environment for everyone that comes to my home, whether it's a child or an adult. I learned that in my 33.6 years of teaching at Pine Lake Elementary School in the Bloomfield Hills School District. I tried my best, and I'm pouring my heart out to you now, to please help us. We need help.

  49. way too close to our property line. We do, I do support my husband and our next door neighbor, Josh Stern, who spoke to this, I believe, to you also, Brian Henry, about the 16-foot high Norwegian spruce because the deer eat everything, everything. It is really very, very disgusting. We need these Norwegian spruce, the 16-foot high, closely spaced so that we don't see any of this. And it would be, all of the trees would be on their property, on the Zier property side. We need your help. We really need your help. I have to have a safe environment for everyone that comes to my home, whether it's a child or an adult. I learned that in my 33.6 years of teaching at Pine Lake Elementary School in the Bloomfield Hills School District. I tried my best, and I'm pouring my heart out to you now, to please help us. We need help. And that's why we say no fireballs and the 16-feet high Norwegian spruce trees lining up all along the back. I don't want to see any of it. We're not commercial. We're a resident. residential neighborhood where family comes and loves to run around do you have any questions for me i i'm sure everybody paid attention in your class they did and you know what every child that i had and i started in kindergarten and went all the way through so i taught everybody they were like my own children and i treated each one individually in addition to structuring things for the group i made sure i connected which with each one of them and many of them are now in the neighborhood in very professional positions my urologist is just down the road so so i think i think we're getting a little off track now so i know i know thank you for you asked contributing to the community in so many ways so i i think i think we need to hear from some of the other people so because we've got we got the picture up that you wanted us to see um okay yeah the one that shows

  50. And that's why we say no fireballs and the 16-feet high Norwegian spruce trees lining up all along the back. I don't want to see any of it. We're not commercial. We're a resident. residential neighborhood where family comes and loves to run around do you have any questions for me i i'm sure everybody paid attention in your class they did and you know what every child that i had and i started in kindergarten and went all the way through so i taught everybody they were like my own children and i treated each one individually in addition to structuring things for the group i made sure i connected which with each one of them and many of them are now in the neighborhood in very professional positions my urologist is just down the road so so i think i think we're getting a little off track now so i know i know thank you for you asked contributing to the community in so many ways so i i think i think we need to hear from some of the other people so because we've got we got the picture up that you wanted us to see um okay yeah the one that shows that the the corner that one fireball is six feet into the easement because the the class bell is ringing for the next next person to talk so okay so could we have the next next person I'm Valerie Heyman Sklar. I'm at 1563 Groton Road. I'm a few doors down and I'm on the pond. So I'm a little bit further on the corner of Jerry. And I'm not as close to the situation as the Stearns and the Vedders, but I'm concerned that the encroachment of the 16 feet is really not neighborly. It doesn't take into effect the way the neighborhood is, how space is really important to the people who have bought

  51. so because we've got we got the picture up that you wanted us to see um okay yeah the one that shows that the the corner that one fireball is six feet into the easement because the the class bell is ringing for the next next person to talk so okay so could we have the next next person I'm Valerie Heyman Sklar. I'm at 1563 Groton Road. I'm a few doors down and I'm on the pond. So I'm a little bit further on the corner of Jerry. And I'm not as close to the situation as the Stearns and the Vedders, but I'm concerned that the encroachment of the 16 feet is really not neighborly. It doesn't take into effect the way the neighborhood is, how space is really important to the people who have bought houses, who lived there for long periods of time. And I really think that it's not a shared standard. That they should really be part of the community, and they're not. And they're pushing and pushing and pushing. And I just don't know where it stops. And if it's not this house, you give it to this house, then the next house who wants to do the same thing, which is right next door to them, will end up in the same situation. And they can't plant trees. And they've taken down beautiful greens that are- 70-year-old trees in exchange for arborvitaes that is not the same and just we're putting up you know privacy fences i mean with arborvitaes so that's the that's my my thoughts thank you very much is there anyone else who'd like to speak

  52. how space is really important to the people who have bought houses, who lived there for long periods of time. And I really think that it's not a shared standard. That they should really be part of the community, and they're not. And they're pushing and pushing and pushing. And I just don't know where it stops. And if it's not this house, you give it to this house, then the next house who wants to do the same thing, which is right next door to them, will end up in the same situation. And they can't plant trees. And they've taken down beautiful greens that are- 70-year-old trees in exchange for arborvitaes that is not the same and just we're putting up you know privacy fences i mean with arborvitaes so that's the that's my my thoughts thank you very much is there anyone else who'd like to speak hi there i'm marion hinton i live at 1555 groton and i think the only person who beats me in terms of residency on this road is mrs vetter we moved to groton in 1983. so i have spent most of my life looking at one of the most peaceful pristine pond views that uh might be fairly unknown to people in bloomfield you know we're talking about groton and dairy as two streets that most people don't traverse you know it's not a major thoroughfare so the level of peace and nature that can be found on this pond is is quite a delightful surprise to most people when we consider the encroachment you that implies great expansion and with great expansion you have great displacement of earth and nature and i will tell you last year as this construction got underway um my pond view disappeared it we were so algae ridden because of runoff that I can tell you it was the worst I had seen in 42 years and so I asked you to consider obviously we have neighborhood norms and and safety and security but just environmentally what it means to keep projects like this within scale because if I can be proponent for the longevity of this pond

  53. hi there i'm marion hinton i live at 1555 groton and i think the only person who beats me in terms of residency on this road is mrs vetter we moved to groton in 1983. so i have spent most of my life looking at one of the most peaceful pristine pond views that uh might be fairly unknown to people in bloomfield you know we're talking about groton and dairy as two streets that most people don't traverse you know it's not a major thoroughfare so the level of peace and nature that can be found on this pond is is quite a delightful surprise to most people when we consider the encroachment you that implies great expansion and with great expansion you have great displacement of earth and nature and i will tell you last year as this construction got underway um my pond view disappeared it we were so algae ridden because of runoff that I can tell you it was the worst I had seen in 42 years and so I asked you to consider obviously we have neighborhood norms and and safety and security but just environmentally what it means to keep projects like this within scale because if I can be proponent for the longevity of this pond I would certainly like to see it prosper for the next 43 years I may not be here to see it but it should outlive us it should you know extend beyond my residency there but we've we and my family have all these years taken great care to maintain the natural beauty of this pond and we've seen it affected gravely in the last 18 months okay anyone else would like to speak so the only variance that we really that was asking we are not 16 feet we followed the plans that were allowed to the only thing we had wanted was so we're the applicant correct oh well uh but Mosher Mosher designed it for me and Alex is my we're kind of doing this in reverse now so I thought I thought you weren't here and that's why Matt Mosher so so do you want us to go forward and so we're gonna need all I was gonna do was take the public comment we need to ask

  54. within scale because if I can be proponent for the longevity of this pond I would certainly like to see it prosper for the next 43 years I may not be here to see it but it should outlive us it should you know extend beyond my residency there but we've we and my family have all these years taken great care to maintain the natural beauty of this pond and we've seen it affected gravely in the last 18 months okay anyone else would like to speak so the only variance that we really that was asking we are not 16 feet we followed the plans that were allowed to the only thing we had wanted was so we're the applicant correct oh well uh but Mosher Mosher designed it for me and Alex is my we're kind of doing this in reverse now so I thought I thought you weren't here and that's why Matt Mosher so so do you want us to go forward and so we're gonna need all I was gonna do was take the public comment we need to ask built so i i think um we need to have those uh the motion the other the other reason we don't want to have uh you you speak is the board that would would be different so so you're going to need to come back my my suggestion is you're going to need to come back and we're going to have to have as built to see where things are built so do you understand that requirement yes okay what i'm saying what they're saying so it's really in your best interest not to say anything here's why right now you've only got five uh people here and if you if you say something or go forward this group would have to uh make the decision we've taken the public comment i'm going to keep it open but if if you don't say anything you would have the opportunity to have a full board with seven people which is really better for you so do you understand how that's better for you so so matt's matt's nodding his head so i think i think you know he kind of understands how this works so so you can just sit down okay and i'm i'm sorry uh i'm gonna do it so we're going to keep the the public hearing open is there anyone else in the public that wants to speak all right so we're going to keep this open so we have a motion now all right i would move to

  55. built so i i think um we need to have those uh the motion the other the other reason we don't want to have uh you you speak is the board that would would be different so so you're going to need to come back my my suggestion is you're going to need to come back and we're going to have to have as built to see where things are built so do you understand that requirement yes okay what i'm saying what they're saying so it's really in your best interest not to say anything here's why right now you've only got five uh people here and if you if you say something or go forward this group would have to uh make the decision we've taken the public comment i'm going to keep it open but if if you don't say anything you would have the opportunity to have a full board with seven people which is really better for you so do you understand how that's better for you so so matt's matt's nodding his head so i think i think you know he kind of understands how this works so so you can just sit down okay and i'm i'm sorry uh i'm gonna do it so we're going to keep the the public hearing open is there anyone else in the public that wants to speak all right so we're going to keep this open so we have a motion now all right i would move to table this item for further information and the submission of as built plans and re-notice as required and to continue the public hearing at that time. MR. Support? So I have a motion and support to get additional information and table all, any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. MR. Any opposed? It's tabled. The applicant understands, and I think that understands what we need. So let's call the next item. Item 7, 4455 Charing Cross. Hello, I'm Dan Fletcher, the owner of 4455 Charing Cross. There's been a little bit of confusion. We just would like to retain the fence that we put up. We did get a permit for the fence. We do have dogs, but we got the permit because there's a big coyote that roams that neighborhood. I think you probably are aware of that. MR. Excuse me. You cannot speak. If you want to carry on a conversation, I'm going to ask you to leave because we're still

  56. all right so we're going to keep this open so we have a motion now all right i would move to table this item for further information and the submission of as built plans and re-notice as required and to continue the public hearing at that time. MR. Support? So I have a motion and support to get additional information and table all, any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. MR. Any opposed? It's tabled. The applicant understands, and I think that understands what we need. So let's call the next item. Item 7, 4455 Charing Cross. Hello, I'm Dan Fletcher, the owner of 4455 Charing Cross. There's been a little bit of confusion. We just would like to retain the fence that we put up. We did get a permit for the fence. We do have dogs, but we got the permit because there's a big coyote that roams that neighborhood. I think you probably are aware of that. MR. Excuse me. You cannot speak. If you want to carry on a conversation, I'm going to ask you to leave because we're still conducting a public meeting here, and we just want to hear from the applicant. So I'll give you some time to step out. I'm sorry. Please continue. Thank you. Yeah, so we got the permit because we wanted to protect our grandchildren when they visit. We do have a small fence there for a new puppy we got. That's me saying no. being trained, but it came along that it actually helps have our defense with the dogs, of course. So where it says we wanted to extend it, we didn't want to do that. We just wanted to show you if we followed the variance code, it would be into our front and side yard. So our house goes up to Waddles and it's up the hill and it's oblong, weird. So you just want the existing thing? Do you just want to retain the existing four foot fence? That's correct. Not that. Perfect. Okay. Trying to make it easy for you. That's correct. We appreciate that. Any questions from the board? I have no questions. Let's open this to the public. Anyone like to speak on this item?

  57. If you want to carry on a conversation, I'm going to ask you to leave because we're still conducting a public meeting here, and we just want to hear from the applicant. So I'll give you some time to step out. I'm sorry. Please continue. Thank you. Yeah, so we got the permit because we wanted to protect our grandchildren when they visit. We do have a small fence there for a new puppy we got. That's me saying no. being trained, but it came along that it actually helps have our defense with the dogs, of course. So where it says we wanted to extend it, we didn't want to do that. We just wanted to show you if we followed the variance code, it would be into our front and side yard. So our house goes up to Waddles and it's up the hill and it's oblong, weird. So you just want the existing thing? Do you just want to retain the existing four foot fence? That's correct. Not that. Perfect. Okay. Trying to make it easy for you. That's correct. We appreciate that. Any questions from the board? I have no questions. Let's open this to the public. Anyone like to speak on this item? I'll close the public hearing. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Please do, Chris. Thank you. So I think our packet might be a little off. So all we're doing is a permission request for the existing dog enclosure fence. And I don't believe, does the existing dog enclosure fence have the encroachment still? I don't think it does. No. It doesn't. It's at least four feet. It's not encroaching into the setback. No. Well, is it along your back property line? Is it like on the property line in the back? It's four feet from the property line. And I do have letters from my neighbors in the back. And I'm just trying to figure out how to make this. That's all. Yeah. I'm. Yeah. I'm any clarification then from so if we're only approving the red the existing fence the red line is that just a permission request then i believe it's the yellow portion that's the request no he said he just said he doesn't want to extend it he just wants the existing fence which permission for the existing the red and there's some miscommunication or my wife is showing if we put the fence up where it would be in the front and on the side okay so we're trying to determine

  58. Anyone like to speak on this item? I'll close the public hearing. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Please do, Chris. Thank you. So I think our packet might be a little off. So all we're doing is a permission request for the existing dog enclosure fence. And I don't believe, does the existing dog enclosure fence have the encroachment still? I don't think it does. No. It doesn't. It's at least four feet. It's not encroaching into the setback. No. Well, is it along your back property line? Is it like on the property line in the back? It's four feet from the property line. And I do have letters from my neighbors in the back. And I'm just trying to figure out how to make this. That's all. Yeah. I'm. Yeah. I'm any clarification then from so if we're only approving the red the existing fence the red line is that just a permission request then i believe it's the yellow portion that's the request no he said he just said he doesn't want to extend it he just wants the existing fence which permission for the existing the red and there's some miscommunication or my wife is showing if we put the fence up where it would be in the front and on the side okay so we're trying to determine if your request is consistent with what the ask was within the notice if i if that is again is it encroaching into the rear setback or side yard setback because technically is this for a dog enclosure yeah it was not for dog closures to protect my grandchildren from the coyote that's there but it's a four foot fence yes so it ended up being a dog enclosure because he has a dog now right so we would have to verify that you complete we'd have to understand what is the setback of that existing fence from both your assuming that the top of your page is north yes and then also what is the the red the part that's measured 34 feet what is the distance of that that line from our side neighbor the richardson we're definitely more than 16 feet back from the side okay from the back we are not the 25 feet it asked for okay that would put us almost onto our patio okay so that being said um and i have letters from both neighbors which you got yeah and it does say that they're encroaching 25 feet so we were safe so we believe that we should you should be able to act based on what

  59. put the fence up where it would be in the front and on the side okay so we're trying to determine if your request is consistent with what the ask was within the notice if i if that is again is it encroaching into the rear setback or side yard setback because technically is this for a dog enclosure yeah it was not for dog closures to protect my grandchildren from the coyote that's there but it's a four foot fence yes so it ended up being a dog enclosure because he has a dog now right so we would have to verify that you complete we'd have to understand what is the setback of that existing fence from both your assuming that the top of your page is north yes and then also what is the the red the part that's measured 34 feet what is the distance of that that line from our side neighbor the richardson we're definitely more than 16 feet back from the side okay from the back we are not the 25 feet it asked for okay that would put us almost onto our patio okay so that being said um and i have letters from both neighbors which you got yeah and it does say that they're encroaching 25 feet so we were safe so we believe that we should you should be able to act based on what was noticed they're talking about expanding it therefore encroaching 25 feet and 16 feet into rear and easterly because we wanted to be very careful and we did presume that it was on the lot line so we should be covered okay sorry i'm it's okay so in regards to permission request for the existing dog fence um at the address of 4455 charring crossroad for the dog fence i move the request be approved we're going to call it as amended okay basic information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for dash 42 dash 40 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate neighborhood you want to protect your dog also having to be for your grand kids again now the dimensional variance for the existing dog fence enclosure i moved the variant for their appeal at the same address again 44 55 chart crossing um i moved the variance be approved as we're going to say amended for the existing dog fence for the one along your back and your side not into that proposed area so again existing red line only um i moved the variance be approved based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance

  60. 25 feet so we were safe so we believe that we should you should be able to act based on what was noticed they're talking about expanding it therefore encroaching 25 feet and 16 feet into rear and easterly because we wanted to be very careful and we did presume that it was on the lot line so we should be covered okay sorry i'm it's okay so in regards to permission request for the existing dog fence um at the address of 4455 charring crossroad for the dog fence i move the request be approved we're going to call it as amended okay basic information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for dash 42 dash 40 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate neighborhood you want to protect your dog also having to be for your grand kids again now the dimensional variance for the existing dog fence enclosure i moved the variant for their appeal at the same address again 44 55 chart crossing um i moved the variance be approved as we're going to say amended for the existing dog fence for the one along your back and your side not into that proposed area so again existing red line only um i moved the variance be approved based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because, again, if we would do the 25 foot off the setback, it'd be onto your patio, would not allow you to be the protection of the dog as well as your grandchildren. There is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of you got letters from them, and again, this is four feet and below. New strict maps of the property have been demonstrated given the fact of, again, your topography of your property as well as its shape is unique to itself. And then this is not self-created because of the fact, again, you have a lot of side yard, not as much depth in that backyard. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be within five business days, okay? And I'm not going to require an additional evergreen screening because you are not putting it into your front yard. Support. Motion to support. Any discussion? Thank you. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request as modified is granted. Thank you. Calling item 86360 Hills Drive. Hi. My name is Rick Wyand. I'm here with Randy Spagna, my partner. I'm with SW Luxury Homes. Our client is out of town on business, I believe. He's not in town.

  61. the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because, again, if we would do the 25 foot off the setback, it'd be onto your patio, would not allow you to be the protection of the dog as well as your grandchildren. There is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of you got letters from them, and again, this is four feet and below. New strict maps of the property have been demonstrated given the fact of, again, your topography of your property as well as its shape is unique to itself. And then this is not self-created because of the fact, again, you have a lot of side yard, not as much depth in that backyard. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be within five business days, okay? And I'm not going to require an additional evergreen screening because you are not putting it into your front yard. Support. Motion to support. Any discussion? Thank you. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request as modified is granted. Thank you. Calling item 86360 Hills Drive. Hi. My name is Rick Wyand. I'm here with Randy Spagna, my partner. I'm with SW Luxury Homes. Our client is out of town on business, I believe. He's not in town. And we're asking for permission to build an accessory structure adjacent to a pool. I think we have a second variance that is. with respect to the guideline size of an accessory structure. With respect to that, we built a relatively, could you go back to the previous screen if possible? Yes, thank you. Our home is, it's a newly constructed home. It could have been as large as 19,000 square feet of first floor coverage. We built it at about six percent, seven percent. And the, had we made it large, a larger garage that would fit more comfortably, easily on the property, we wouldn't be asking for the second variance. Because our formula, I believe, would allow us to, is that correct, Andrea?

  62. And we're asking for permission to build an accessory structure adjacent to a pool. I think we have a second variance that is. with respect to the guideline size of an accessory structure. With respect to that, we built a relatively, could you go back to the previous screen if possible? Yes, thank you. Our home is, it's a newly constructed home. It could have been as large as 19,000 square feet of first floor coverage. We built it at about six percent, seven percent. And the, had we made it large, a larger garage that would fit more comfortably, easily on the property, we wouldn't be asking for the second variance. Because our formula, I believe, would allow us to, is that correct, Andrea? You're saying that if it was, if the house was bigger. We built a small, we built a small house. But if you made the Cabana smaller, you wouldn't need that variance. Right, but we wouldn't be able to, overall, with the Cabana, we're less than 10 percent lot coverage, including the Cabana. So I, I was trying to put this into perspective. Yeah. We, it's a relatively large. You could have had a bigger house and that. That would have changed the ratio of the cabana. We think it's a reasonable request with regard to that. Okay. Any questions from the board? I guess just some points of discussion. Your landscape plan seems to be a little light. So if a motion is approved, I'm going to need additional screening. So those trees are 18 to 22 feet. But if I see gaps in between them. The way you have it, there are gaps in between them. We would be happy to do that. Perfect. Wouldn't we be happy? He would be happy. I wouldn't, a client would as well. We're glad you're happy. We'd like to make you happy. Well, we're here to make people happy. So I like that. I don't want to spend your client's money, but that is a request that you've heard.

  63. Because our formula, I believe, would allow us to, is that correct, Andrea? You're saying that if it was, if the house was bigger. We built a small, we built a small house. But if you made the Cabana smaller, you wouldn't need that variance. Right, but we wouldn't be able to, overall, with the Cabana, we're less than 10 percent lot coverage, including the Cabana. So I, I was trying to put this into perspective. Yeah. We, it's a relatively large. You could have had a bigger house and that. That would have changed the ratio of the cabana. We think it's a reasonable request with regard to that. Okay. Any questions from the board? I guess just some points of discussion. Your landscape plan seems to be a little light. So if a motion is approved, I'm going to need additional screening. So those trees are 18 to 22 feet. But if I see gaps in between them. The way you have it, there are gaps in between them. We would be happy to do that. Perfect. Wouldn't we be happy? He would be happy. I wouldn't, a client would as well. We're glad you're happy. We'd like to make you happy. Well, we're here to make people happy. So I like that. I don't want to spend your client's money, but that is a request that you've heard. No, they would be fine with that. Okay. This was a landscaper's suggestion. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Would you like to come up and give us your name and address? I guess I should get out of the way, right? You defer to the public speaking now. Good evening. I'm Judy Lindstrom, and I'm directionally inept. I live behind this, and it's a lovely house. I live behind the house, so I'm not sure with what he showed where this cabana is going to be. What's your address? I'm sorry, 6239 Thorncrest Drive. So you live to the north, to the north corner. Okay. To me, this is north. This is north. That's what I'm saying. I'm directionally inept. You're doing great. Okay, thank you. I'm assuming that it's going to be next to the garage area from the house or the side of the garage. Yeah, on that side. On the side, okay. And then how far from my property line is the cabana going to be built? And then I'll be solved. Well, he'll answer that. So you, the way it works is you talk to us. Okay, got you. I'm sorry. That's right. You gave those strict instructions. Well, that's okay. Everything I say is loose. That's just

  64. No, they would be fine with that. Okay. This was a landscaper's suggestion. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Would you like to come up and give us your name and address? I guess I should get out of the way, right? You defer to the public speaking now. Good evening. I'm Judy Lindstrom, and I'm directionally inept. I live behind this, and it's a lovely house. I live behind the house, so I'm not sure with what he showed where this cabana is going to be. What's your address? I'm sorry, 6239 Thorncrest Drive. So you live to the north, to the north corner. Okay. To me, this is north. This is north. That's what I'm saying. I'm directionally inept. You're doing great. Okay, thank you. I'm assuming that it's going to be next to the garage area from the house or the side of the garage. Yeah, on that side. On the side, okay. And then how far from my property line is the cabana going to be built? And then I'll be solved. Well, he'll answer that. So you, the way it works is you talk to us. Okay, got you. I'm sorry. That's right. You gave those strict instructions. Well, that's okay. Everything I say is loose. That's just sort of. No, no, I'm trying to follow. Yeah, you have to talk to us. You have to talk to us and then he'll respond. Absolutely. Okay. So I've lived there 10 plus years. That was my parents' home and I purchased it about 10 years ago from them. And it's, their house, the house that they built is lovely and I'm sure that the cabana would be lovely. And I want to be a good neighbor, but I also want to be a little bit selfish. And as the speakers for number six talked about, my yard has become my oasis. I have hundreds of azaleas and roadies, deer that don't eat my things. I don't know why, but I'm glad. But I do know from the people who live directly behind us, they built a cabana and every weekend, it's not as bad now, but every weekend it has forced us to go inside. The music is so loud and it's taken away from my way of living. And so I can't be selfish. I know that there's going to be houses, but I just was concerned when I saw that this was coming and being built. I just want to make sure that they There is reciprocity on both ends. I mean, I'll be quiet. I have a pool, so my nephews are 11 years old, and they're loud on a Saturday morning for sure. But my worry is that I have these huge speakers from the house next to mine directly behind,

  65. gave those strict instructions. Well, that's okay. Everything I say is loose. That's just sort of. No, no, I'm trying to follow. Yeah, you have to talk to us. You have to talk to us and then he'll respond. Absolutely. Okay. So I've lived there 10 plus years. That was my parents' home and I purchased it about 10 years ago from them. And it's, their house, the house that they built is lovely and I'm sure that the cabana would be lovely. And I want to be a good neighbor, but I also want to be a little bit selfish. And as the speakers for number six talked about, my yard has become my oasis. I have hundreds of azaleas and roadies, deer that don't eat my things. I don't know why, but I'm glad. But I do know from the people who live directly behind us, they built a cabana and every weekend, it's not as bad now, but every weekend it has forced us to go inside. The music is so loud and it's taken away from my way of living. And so I can't be selfish. I know that there's going to be houses, but I just was concerned when I saw that this was coming and being built. I just want to make sure that they There is reciprocity on both ends. I mean, I'll be quiet. I have a pool, so my nephews are 11 years old, and they're loud on a Saturday morning for sure. But my worry is that I have these huge speakers from the house next to mine directly behind, and then on the corner I just don't want to have to compete with music and have my lifestyle change simply because this cabana's been built. And it's more not an aesthetic. I think the aesthetics will be fine. I'm hoping that there'll be a lot of landscaping. My house is certainly pretty much covered from seeing the house, but that's my only worry. Okay, thank you for your feedback. You're welcome. Is there anyone else like to speak? So close public hearing and then have the applicant respond. You can come back up and speak into the microphone, please. So that would be the northwest corner of the cabana. On the property line is your property line. Can I speak to her? Or do I want to speak to you or everybody? You're still speaking to us, but okay. I'll sort of pretend I'm speaking. She's listening. She has a lovely yard. I used to live across the street from her. So we're, I can't tell you, I'm not prepared to tell you how many feet we are from her house, but it's a substantial difference. Well, just tell her how far you are from the property line. Can we zoom in on that? I can't. I can't.

  66. from the house next to mine directly behind, and then on the corner I just don't want to have to compete with music and have my lifestyle change simply because this cabana's been built. And it's more not an aesthetic. I think the aesthetics will be fine. I'm hoping that there'll be a lot of landscaping. My house is certainly pretty much covered from seeing the house, but that's my only worry. Okay, thank you for your feedback. You're welcome. Is there anyone else like to speak? So close public hearing and then have the applicant respond. You can come back up and speak into the microphone, please. So that would be the northwest corner of the cabana. On the property line is your property line. Can I speak to her? Or do I want to speak to you or everybody? You're still speaking to us, but okay. I'll sort of pretend I'm speaking. She's listening. She has a lovely yard. I used to live across the street from her. So we're, I can't tell you, I'm not prepared to tell you how many feet we are from her house, but it's a substantial difference. Well, just tell her how far you are from the property line. Can we zoom in on that? I can't. I can't. most it looks like it's about 25 feet from that and then what's the side yard setback the side yard is um 40 50 seat it looks like it's about 67 thank you good work good glasses and then what she has concerns about music um i can tell you our client i don't know if they like music or not okay are there speakers in the cabana uh no we don't plan to have any we have some speakers on the back porch no outdoor speakers so that may mitigate her concern yes and i understand because i heard the same music from her neighbors so you'll you'll treat her like a neighbor well we hope we did while we were there okay all right so back to this though so we've got commitment for screening yes no speakers correct there's a speaker sorry about that i'm afraid i'm going to have to confiscate your phone

  67. most it looks like it's about 25 feet from that and then what's the side yard setback the side yard is um 40 50 seat it looks like it's about 67 thank you good work good glasses and then what she has concerns about music um i can tell you our client i don't know if they like music or not okay are there speakers in the cabana uh no we don't plan to have any we have some speakers on the back porch no outdoor speakers so that may mitigate her concern yes and i understand because i heard the same music from her neighbors so you'll you'll treat her like a neighbor well we hope we did while we were there okay all right so back to this though so we've got commitment for screening yes no speakers correct there's a speaker sorry about that i'm afraid i'm going to have to confiscate your phone uh any any other questions from the board okay then let's have a motion i'd like to make oh oh go ahead carol okay with respect to the property located at 63 60 hills drive with the permission request i would move to approve the permission request for the cabana because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7.6 standards the use is compatible with the neighbors it's appropriate for the neighborhood and does not hinder or discourage the adjacent use of property i would also move to grant the request for the dimensional variance which would allow for the accessory structure to exceed 50 of the ground floor area by 87 square feet because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome this property is large and the home that was constructed was is actually relatively small in comparison to the size of the lot thereby creating this variance need by the accessory structure there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors and the unique circumstances i've discussed with respect to the size of the property

  68. uh any any other questions from the board okay then let's have a motion i'd like to make oh oh go ahead carol okay with respect to the property located at 63 60 hills drive with the permission request i would move to approve the permission request for the cabana because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7.6 standards the use is compatible with the neighbors it's appropriate for the neighborhood and does not hinder or discourage the adjacent use of property i would also move to grant the request for the dimensional variance which would allow for the accessory structure to exceed 50 of the ground floor area by 87 square feet because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome this property is large and the home that was constructed was is actually relatively small in comparison to the size of the lot thereby creating this variance need by the accessory structure there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors and the unique circumstances i've discussed with respect to the size of the property in comparison to the home that was built in the other structures it's not self-created as well application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the campana from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting what did i forget you're looking at me nice again so and single-family affidavit okay and then again how tall is the structure for 13 14 I'm sorry so I always quite was gonna bring all the boards but so the trees will be 14 feet or higher I'm planting so far their plan to be 16 to 22 feet so how about we just say 16 feet okay no I'm playing it for 16 feet thank you wow and you understand the single-family family affidavit as well yes okay Tom explained that to us okay support so I have motion and support any discussion I just quit I don't know we had to address Chris's concern or just looking at the landscape plan making sure that it's

  69. neighbors and the unique circumstances i've discussed with respect to the size of the property in comparison to the home that was built in the other structures it's not self-created as well application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation and evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the campana from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting what did i forget you're looking at me nice again so and single-family affidavit okay and then again how tall is the structure for 13 14 I'm sorry so I always quite was gonna bring all the boards but so the trees will be 14 feet or higher I'm planting so far their plan to be 16 to 22 feet so how about we just say 16 feet okay no I'm playing it for 16 feet thank you wow and you understand the single-family family affidavit as well yes okay Tom explained that to us okay support so I have motion and support any discussion I just quit I don't know we had to address Chris's concern or just looking at the landscape plan making sure that it's more tightly I think they understand it's all I assume we're going to bring it back to okay your screening plan will be reviewed after best part of your building permit to make sure that you're the motion is being met thank you thank you and I imagine your clients want to get this done so you'll do the same no absolutely well perfect so thank you okay okay so we were in the discussion part so now we're gonna vote all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations thank you your request is granted thank you so calling next item item Are we on nine? No, ten. Nine. No, no? Nine. Nineteen-nineteen, Lone Pine. Hello, board. My name is Jacob Mansour. I'm the lead designer here at Triak Landscaping, and I'm here seeking a permission request for a pergola pool house structure. It's within all the setbacks of our yard. It's going to be cladded in the same exact material as the house. It's going to look exactly like the house. In the actual structure, if you could see on those renders, it's just a simple bathroom, and we're going to also do one side of bathroom, one side of pool equipment storage, so we don't have to put the noisy pool equipment by anybody.

  70. Chris's concern or just looking at the landscape plan making sure that it's more tightly I think they understand it's all I assume we're going to bring it back to okay your screening plan will be reviewed after best part of your building permit to make sure that you're the motion is being met thank you thank you and I imagine your clients want to get this done so you'll do the same no absolutely well perfect so thank you okay okay so we were in the discussion part so now we're gonna vote all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations thank you your request is granted thank you so calling next item item Are we on nine? No, ten. Nine. No, no? Nine. Nineteen-nineteen, Lone Pine. Hello, board. My name is Jacob Mansour. I'm the lead designer here at Triak Landscaping, and I'm here seeking a permission request for a pergola pool house structure. It's within all the setbacks of our yard. It's going to be cladded in the same exact material as the house. It's going to look exactly like the house. In the actual structure, if you could see on those renders, it's just a simple bathroom, and we're going to also do one side of bathroom, one side of pool equipment storage, so we don't have to put the noisy pool equipment by anybody. And then attached to that structure is going to be like a pergola, kind of a cost-effective way of gaining a pool house without building all these crazy structures for my clients. And then also seeking a permission request for those typical pillars like we see in these high-end Bloomfield homes with some fire columns, sort of like a nice ambiance to look at centered on the living room in that house. On the left side of the property, there's already existing arborvitae screening by the neighbor. On the right side, there is no neighbor, and we're still going to put some screening there. And on the rear, there also is no house in sight, and I'm going to leave that screening up to them. We still might do it. We just want to see if we're going to go all the way and do that. So this is my request. Any questions from the board? Your neighbor's screening does not count. Okay. I was unaware of that. If you go to that last picture, like they couldn't see in our property at all. But if we want to put our properties against our properties, I mean.

  71. In the actual structure, if you could see on those renders, it's just a simple bathroom, and we're going to also do one side of bathroom, one side of pool equipment storage, so we don't have to put the noisy pool equipment by anybody. And then attached to that structure is going to be like a pergola, kind of a cost-effective way of gaining a pool house without building all these crazy structures for my clients. And then also seeking a permission request for those typical pillars like we see in these high-end Bloomfield homes with some fire columns, sort of like a nice ambiance to look at centered on the living room in that house. On the left side of the property, there's already existing arborvitae screening by the neighbor. On the right side, there is no neighbor, and we're still going to put some screening there. And on the rear, there also is no house in sight, and I'm going to leave that screening up to them. We still might do it. We just want to see if we're going to go all the way and do that. So this is my request. Any questions from the board? Your neighbor's screening does not count. Okay. I was unaware of that. If you go to that last picture, like they couldn't see in our property at all. But if we want to put our properties against our properties, I mean. Some type of a screening as you, this has been a, this is kind of a pattern here. Not sure that I'm, I understand like the screening aspect of everything. It's to my understanding that what I'm proposing coincides exactly with the house. It's just detached from the house. Like it's going to be the same pitch of the roof, the same stone, the same stucco. It's really going to look part of that house. The spirit of our ordinance for accessory structures, I believe, unless it's a garage that houses a car or a boat, it requires screening. Gotcha. So you have a detached garage, there's some latitude there. Understood. So, but it still is all up to the board. Understood. So the spirit of our ordinance says that we're going to screen it. So you have a pool house in this that is, how many feet high? At the top point of the roof, it will be 12 feet. So you will be required to have screening on, so that none of your neighbors or anybody from public view can see it, 12 feet at time of planting. Understood. So whether that's an arborvitae, whether that's a tree, whether that's a. Right, evergreen. Whatever you want, that is 365 coverage. Mm-hmm. So I understand that your clients might not have had that. And they have a beautiful plan here. Yeah. That has to be done. Gotcha. And to my understanding, it has to be done. It's been really fun. Yeah. I don't know.

  72. But if we want to put our properties against our properties, I mean. Some type of a screening as you, this has been a, this is kind of a pattern here. Not sure that I'm, I understand like the screening aspect of everything. It's to my understanding that what I'm proposing coincides exactly with the house. It's just detached from the house. Like it's going to be the same pitch of the roof, the same stone, the same stucco. It's really going to look part of that house. The spirit of our ordinance for accessory structures, I believe, unless it's a garage that houses a car or a boat, it requires screening. Gotcha. So you have a detached garage, there's some latitude there. Understood. So, but it still is all up to the board. Understood. So the spirit of our ordinance says that we're going to screen it. So you have a pool house in this that is, how many feet high? At the top point of the roof, it will be 12 feet. So you will be required to have screening on, so that none of your neighbors or anybody from public view can see it, 12 feet at time of planting. Understood. So whether that's an arborvitae, whether that's a tree, whether that's a. Right, evergreen. Whatever you want, that is 365 coverage. Mm-hmm. So I understand that your clients might not have had that. And they have a beautiful plan here. Yeah. That has to be done. Gotcha. And to my understanding, it has to be done. It's been really fun. Yeah. I don't know. on a side that has a neighbor and like and feel the view of a neighbor public view so that you yeah so it's pretty isolated other than that side right right that side that exists with our varieties is the only person who could possibly see them but okay where it's funny because we're planning on doing on the other side and I told them there's nobody there and they they want it on the other side yeah absolutely it's good green is good and you can explain to them what the spirit of the law is absolutely so and again with how beautiful this is I imagine they would like the privacy of course so all right so I'll open the public hearing for this item close public hearing bring it back for a motion mr. chairman I'd love to make a motion thank you in regards to the appeal at 1919 Lone Pine Road for the accessory structure I move the request be submit approved as submitted based information presented well as amended they seem every information presented they did demonstrate compliance for section 42 dash 7 6 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood talked about so plenty of people have this this makes sense for the neighborhood and it'll be a beautiful addition for the property if this motion is approved all application for necessary permits must be

  73. on a side that has a neighbor and like and feel the view of a neighbor public view so that you yeah so it's pretty isolated other than that side right right that side that exists with our varieties is the only person who could possibly see them but okay where it's funny because we're planning on doing on the other side and I told them there's nobody there and they they want it on the other side yeah absolutely it's good green is good and you can explain to them what the spirit of the law is absolutely so and again with how beautiful this is I imagine they would like the privacy of course so all right so I'll open the public hearing for this item close public hearing bring it back for a motion mr. chairman I'd love to make a motion thank you in regards to the appeal at 1919 Lone Pine Road for the accessory structure I move the request be submit approved as submitted based information presented well as amended they seem every information presented they did demonstrate compliance for section 42 dash 7 6 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood talked about so plenty of people have this this makes sense for the neighborhood and it'll be a beautiful addition for the property if this motion is approved all application for necessary permits must be made within one year and all app permits must be obtained prior to the installation of this additional evergreen screenings shall be required and we'll screen the pool house and those gas fire pill Oh, I didn't say, we're also going to say the gas fire pillars from public view and must meet or exceed the height of those structures at time of plantings. Again, 12 feet. Support. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you, Boyd. Have a good night. Thank you. Calling item 10, 810 Highwood. Good evening, everybody. My name is Caitlin Faria. I'm the landscape architect representing the Kubians at 810 Highwood. I have Tony Kubian, one of the homeowners, here with me. And I also have John Beninotti, the pool contractor, here for support. We are here tonight seeking approval for two items. One for a dimensional variance for a pool fence along the western edge of the property, which runs along Squirrel Road.

  74. property if this motion is approved all application for necessary permits must be made within one year and all app permits must be obtained prior to the installation of this additional evergreen screenings shall be required and we'll screen the pool house and those gas fire pill Oh, I didn't say, we're also going to say the gas fire pillars from public view and must meet or exceed the height of those structures at time of plantings. Again, 12 feet. Support. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you, Boyd. Have a good night. Thank you. Calling item 10, 810 Highwood. Good evening, everybody. My name is Caitlin Faria. I'm the landscape architect representing the Kubians at 810 Highwood. I have Tony Kubian, one of the homeowners, here with me. And I also have John Beninotti, the pool contractor, here for support. We are here tonight seeking approval for two items. One for a dimensional variance for a pool fence along the western edge of the property, which runs along Squirrel Road. This is a corner lot, so that's considered a secondary front yard. So that's why we're here for you tonight. The second item is for a permissions request for a tiered decorative fountain located in the rear yard. Yep, and that's shown in the 3D image, which is incorporated into like a rear garden patio. And that would be about six foot height. The exact fixture hasn't been picked, but kind of industry standard for something tiered like that is between four. and a half and six feet so we're here tonight to seek approval for both of those the dimensional variance I just want to address that fence along Squirrel Road that's actually going to be in from the property line and just under 14 feet so at 13 foot 8 we're also planning on screening that with larger evergreens something like a green giant Western Cedar along that Western property between the road and the fence itself so the fence would be screened from public view along the road and then we have the fence is placed in compliant location everywhere else for dog containment so we've brought that in and there's been additional screening that the homeowner would like to

  75. which runs along Squirrel Road. This is a corner lot, so that's considered a secondary front yard. So that's why we're here for you tonight. The second item is for a permissions request for a tiered decorative fountain located in the rear yard. Yep, and that's shown in the 3D image, which is incorporated into like a rear garden patio. And that would be about six foot height. The exact fixture hasn't been picked, but kind of industry standard for something tiered like that is between four. and a half and six feet so we're here tonight to seek approval for both of those the dimensional variance I just want to address that fence along Squirrel Road that's actually going to be in from the property line and just under 14 feet so at 13 foot 8 we're also planning on screening that with larger evergreens something like a green giant Western Cedar along that Western property between the road and the fence itself so the fence would be screened from public view along the road and then we have the fence is placed in compliant location everywhere else for dog containment so we've brought that in and there's been additional screening that the homeowner would like to incorporate actually a mix of deciduous and evergreen along the southern and eastern property lines you have a dog they do and I have to and I have Tony here with me yeah I have Tony here with me he's going to speak to a little like the proactive outreach that we've done with the neighbors we have six letters of support that you should also have in your packet from all surrounding neighbors to this property and I'm here for any questions as well sure yep so my family we're new to Bloomfield Hills so we're very excited to be here I've got two children four and seven and a couple of schnauzers so we're all happy to be here but at any rate we want to be good neighbors of course we spoke to all of our surrounding neighbors uh there are four on our block and two across the street from us across from highwood and i'm happy to say that all of them were willing to sign off and give letters of support for our plan and i certainly appreciate your time and consideration tonight thank you so it says it's a pool fence not a dog fence can it be a pool and dog fence

  76. and there's been additional screening that the homeowner would like to incorporate actually a mix of deciduous and evergreen along the southern and eastern property lines you have a dog they do and I have to and I have Tony here with me yeah I have Tony here with me he's going to speak to a little like the proactive outreach that we've done with the neighbors we have six letters of support that you should also have in your packet from all surrounding neighbors to this property and I'm here for any questions as well sure yep so my family we're new to Bloomfield Hills so we're very excited to be here I've got two children four and seven and a couple of schnauzers so we're all happy to be here but at any rate we want to be good neighbors of course we spoke to all of our surrounding neighbors uh there are four on our block and two across the street from us across from highwood and i'm happy to say that all of them were willing to sign off and give letters of support for our plan and i certainly appreciate your time and consideration tonight thank you so it says it's a pool fence not a dog fence can it be a pool and dog fence pool dog fence yeah see the problem is it wasn't noticed as a dog enclosure area and i do apologize because i'm looking at your application i think we checked that so i yeah that was overlooked and that was a mistake at our end so we're going to have to rectify that situation and bring this back but they certainly could take action on the secondary frontage location of the fence because that would be a variance regardless because the dog fence would be allowed in the secondary frontage and then they could definitely take action on the fountain itself and then what we would do is we could bring you back next month and make sure that you're the first on the agenda but if it's a dog enclosure do we isn't that permitted well it's just a secondary frontage aspect and well the secondary frontage would the fact that we didn't notice it for a dog enclosure and because the fencing along the rear lot line to the south and to the east would be do you know the setbacks of those fencing the set the the oh that's right yeah yeah oh as far as yeah so we're 20 i think we're 21 7 at the closest off

  77. tonight thank you so it says it's a pool fence not a dog fence can it be a pool and dog fence pool dog fence yeah see the problem is it wasn't noticed as a dog enclosure area and i do apologize because i'm looking at your application i think we checked that so i yeah that was overlooked and that was a mistake at our end so we're going to have to rectify that situation and bring this back but they certainly could take action on the secondary frontage location of the fence because that would be a variance regardless because the dog fence would be allowed in the secondary frontage and then they could definitely take action on the fountain itself and then what we would do is we could bring you back next month and make sure that you're the first on the agenda but if it's a dog enclosure do we isn't that permitted well it's just a secondary frontage aspect and well the secondary frontage would the fact that we didn't notice it for a dog enclosure and because the fencing along the rear lot line to the south and to the east would be do you know the setbacks of those fencing the set the the oh that's right yeah yeah oh as far as yeah so we're 20 i think we're 21 7 at the closest off of the east okay and then the south that maintains 25. so we're probably okay there right it's but again it's the roadside that we'll need it still there's a variance if they're 13 and a half feet if the so if the setbacks from what i'm hearing is 16 feet off the side lot line and 25 feet off that rear lot line that would meet the setback requirements for dog enclosure but right now you have a 13 feet correct you said 13 5. in the secondary front yard which would be a variance regardless yeah and the reason for that is that's just an existing kind of like it slopes down from the there's like a little split rail fence along the road i did a little i don't know if the image is in there corey but um it slopes down and there's kind of like a natural spot there that the fence would run and it's also the only flat area up top for them to kind of use so bringing that in it's just not practical so that's why it's 13 foot eight i'd like to open this to the public for comments

  78. oh that's right yeah yeah oh as far as yeah so we're 20 i think we're 21 7 at the closest off of the east okay and then the south that maintains 25. so we're probably okay there right it's but again it's the roadside that we'll need it still there's a variance if they're 13 and a half feet if the so if the setbacks from what i'm hearing is 16 feet off the side lot line and 25 feet off that rear lot line that would meet the setback requirements for dog enclosure but right now you have a 13 feet correct you said 13 5. in the secondary front yard which would be a variance regardless yeah and the reason for that is that's just an existing kind of like it slopes down from the there's like a little split rail fence along the road i did a little i don't know if the image is in there corey but um it slopes down and there's kind of like a natural spot there that the fence would run and it's also the only flat area up top for them to kind of use so bringing that in it's just not practical so that's why it's 13 foot eight i'd like to open this to the public for comments Please come up. Give us your name and address. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Cameron Dash. I live at 884 Highwood Drive, which is just a few blocks away from this. I've lived on Highwood Drive for the last 36 years. I have a swimming pool, and I raised two children living with a swimming pool, so I'm very concerned about pool safety. I'm glad to report that we only had one child fall into the pool, and we had an adult sitting next to them when that happened. I'm here to oppose the proposed fence. While meeting some of the requirements for a dog fence, the deficit definitely does not meet the requirements for a pool fence. I understand that there's some question about the application here. I'm on the East River Farm's number one building committee. We met with the Cubians and the designer and the pool guy to view all this, and so we've had an open discussion about that, and we have not approved this plan. First of all, I'd like to refer to the Bloomfield Township Ordinance 10-2028,

  79. Please come up. Give us your name and address. Good evening. Good evening. My name is Cameron Dash. I live at 884 Highwood Drive, which is just a few blocks away from this. I've lived on Highwood Drive for the last 36 years. I have a swimming pool, and I raised two children living with a swimming pool, so I'm very concerned about pool safety. I'm glad to report that we only had one child fall into the pool, and we had an adult sitting next to them when that happened. I'm here to oppose the proposed fence. While meeting some of the requirements for a dog fence, the deficit definitely does not meet the requirements for a pool fence. I understand that there's some question about the application here. I'm on the East River Farm's number one building committee. We met with the Cubians and the designer and the pool guy to view all this, and so we've had an open discussion about that, and we have not approved this plan. First of all, I'd like to refer to the Bloomfield Township Ordinance 10-2028, which controls the swimming pool fences. This, in turn, is based on the 2015 International Swimming Pool and Spa Code Section 305. Is this the last thing you have to do and the blessing of the with the the And the quote the perimeter barrier the fence design requires that in this section are especially focused on preventing children from having access to an area where potential drowning is high clearly this fence does not keep children away from the pool but keeps children with access available to the pool so the fence needs to be brought in close to the patio area around the pool in order to comply with the international standards which we rely upon on the setback on the west side of the property there's no reason why they can't comply with the 16-foot setbacks required for dog enclosures there's plenty of space there's no there's no practical reason which would require it to be any closer to the the wall there thank you for your comments anyone else would like to speak

  80. First of all, I'd like to refer to the Bloomfield Township Ordinance 10-2028, which controls the swimming pool fences. This, in turn, is based on the 2015 International Swimming Pool and Spa Code Section 305. Is this the last thing you have to do and the blessing of the with the the And the quote the perimeter barrier the fence design requires that in this section are especially focused on preventing children from having access to an area where potential drowning is high clearly this fence does not keep children away from the pool but keeps children with access available to the pool so the fence needs to be brought in close to the patio area around the pool in order to comply with the international standards which we rely upon on the setback on the west side of the property there's no reason why they can't comply with the 16-foot setbacks required for dog enclosures there's plenty of space there's no there's no practical reason which would require it to be any closer to the the wall there thank you for your comments anyone else would like to speak wait are you the applicant I'm the contractor for the pool but you're a pool but but you're part of the applicant yeah can I speak to the code stuff yeah yeah so we're gonna I have to close public hearing before you can speak so is there anyone else would like to speak all right I'll close public hearing so uh you you you you you you you you you you you the applicant can now respond of which the pool contractor can go quickly uh first okay thank you we're currently on a 2018 international pool spot code book i believe that the city has adopted that the whole state has or should have already he's he's you can interpret that that code on the fence many different ways doesn't dictate how far away it needs to be it simply says it has to have a non-climbable barrier 48 inches tall with the gates swinging out it doesn't say how far it can be it's it's not in the code it just says it has to have non-climbable barrier of some sorts around it yeah because all right do you want to uh the applicant or the applicants represented you want

  81. wait are you the applicant I'm the contractor for the pool but you're a pool but but you're part of the applicant yeah can I speak to the code stuff yeah yeah so we're gonna I have to close public hearing before you can speak so is there anyone else would like to speak all right I'll close public hearing so uh you you you you you you you you you you you the applicant can now respond of which the pool contractor can go quickly uh first okay thank you we're currently on a 2018 international pool spot code book i believe that the city has adopted that the whole state has or should have already he's he's you can interpret that that code on the fence many different ways doesn't dictate how far away it needs to be it simply says it has to have a non-climbable barrier 48 inches tall with the gates swinging out it doesn't say how far it can be it's it's not in the code it just says it has to have non-climbable barrier of some sorts around it yeah because all right do you want to uh the applicant or the applicants represented you want to address any other comments about uh moving the fence in or sure um you know we look to the board to make a recommendation just based on the ordinance of bloomfield township and i think we're in compliance here obviously not with the secondary front yard um location but um that's why we're in front of you tonight so we can't even vote on the fence anyways correct no i guess not so i mean does it even matter on the fountain if we're going to table the fence yeah it seems we're going to do it together i think what if they came here and they may be doing the contracting for that those are two separate contractors so again the notice was on our fault so if it was a mistake and the applicant is a different story. I would be inclined to vote on that one. They're wondering if they, they're questioning whether or not to take it. I'm sorry. We have to re-notice. To vote on the fountain tonight? Yeah. Or does it have? I mean, that would be fine if you would like to. I just ask if the fence, I mean, I know it's in the secondary front yard, but if that were at 16, does that change your decision as far as not being able to vote on it? No, our problem is it wasn't noticed as a dog enclosure.

  82. yeah because all right do you want to uh the applicant or the applicants represented you want to address any other comments about uh moving the fence in or sure um you know we look to the board to make a recommendation just based on the ordinance of bloomfield township and i think we're in compliance here obviously not with the secondary front yard um location but um that's why we're in front of you tonight so we can't even vote on the fence anyways correct no i guess not so i mean does it even matter on the fountain if we're going to table the fence yeah it seems we're going to do it together i think what if they came here and they may be doing the contracting for that those are two separate contractors so again the notice was on our fault so if it was a mistake and the applicant is a different story. I would be inclined to vote on that one. They're wondering if they, they're questioning whether or not to take it. I'm sorry. We have to re-notice. To vote on the fountain tonight? Yeah. Or does it have? I mean, that would be fine if you would like to. I just ask if the fence, I mean, I know it's in the secondary front yard, but if that were at 16, does that change your decision as far as not being able to vote on it? No, our problem is it wasn't noticed as a dog enclosure. Okay. So that had to have been. Yes. So it's not, it's, it's the notice part. It's not. Sure. It's not. No, I understand. I just didn't know if maybe that made any difference. So, okay. Yeah. Would you like them to vote on the phone? Do you want to wait? We can wait. I think just one motion next meeting is easier. If you don't mind. Okay. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we table this. Okay. I'll support. Motion and support. Motion to table and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Table. Thanks for your time. We'll make sure you're on the top of the agenda. Thanks, Andrea. Although I know you enjoyed watching tonight. Always. Okay. Good evening. Patrick Funke, Dual Landscape Architecture. We are the petitioners in landscape architecture. It's deja vu. Yeah. We are the landscape architects and petitioners for the Hills of Lone Pine Association. We are the We were here in the fall and received approval for some security fencing along Echo Road, six-foot-high ornamental aluminum, as recommendation from the Bloomfield Township Police Department.

  83. No, our problem is it wasn't noticed as a dog enclosure. Okay. So that had to have been. Yes. So it's not, it's, it's the notice part. It's not. Sure. It's not. No, I understand. I just didn't know if maybe that made any difference. So, okay. Yeah. Would you like them to vote on the phone? Do you want to wait? We can wait. I think just one motion next meeting is easier. If you don't mind. Okay. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we table this. Okay. I'll support. Motion and support. Motion to table and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Table. Thanks for your time. We'll make sure you're on the top of the agenda. Thanks, Andrea. Although I know you enjoyed watching tonight. Always. Okay. Good evening. Patrick Funke, Dual Landscape Architecture. We are the petitioners in landscape architecture. It's deja vu. Yeah. We are the landscape architects and petitioners for the Hills of Lone Pine Association. We are the We were here in the fall and received approval for some security fencing along Echo Road, six-foot-high ornamental aluminum, as recommendation from the Bloomfield Township Police Department. After we received approval, some of the owners within the Hills and Loan Pine Association requested that we continue the fence along the common areas that were approved. So we went in front of the Design Review Board and received unanimous approval, just a couple weeks ago. And we are here today to request the dimensional variance along Echo Road for the four properties listed in the application. And I'm here to answer any questions. So this now will connect that whole section, right? Correct. It'll be one continuous fence. We had talked about that, like it seemed interesting associated with the kind of choppiness of the fence. Yeah, so the police department only identified initially public areas that the Hills and Loan Pine owned. And then once the neighbors started to, you know, understood what we were proposing, they wanted to take down their ugly fences or farm fences and continue this fence. So it'll be contiguous along Echo Road. It's very heavily vegetated during the growing season. I remember the, I remember the, I remember the,

  84. We were here in the fall and received approval for some security fencing along Echo Road, six-foot-high ornamental aluminum, as recommendation from the Bloomfield Township Police Department. After we received approval, some of the owners within the Hills and Loan Pine Association requested that we continue the fence along the common areas that were approved. So we went in front of the Design Review Board and received unanimous approval, just a couple weeks ago. And we are here today to request the dimensional variance along Echo Road for the four properties listed in the application. And I'm here to answer any questions. So this now will connect that whole section, right? Correct. It'll be one continuous fence. We had talked about that, like it seemed interesting associated with the kind of choppiness of the fence. Yeah, so the police department only identified initially public areas that the Hills and Loan Pine owned. And then once the neighbors started to, you know, understood what we were proposing, they wanted to take down their ugly fences or farm fences and continue this fence. So it'll be contiguous along Echo Road. It's very heavily vegetated during the growing season. I remember the, I remember the, I remember the, MR. I'll open this to the public. Do you have any questions? MR. So you have to come to the microphone, Mr. Dash. MR. That's a regulatory question. So this section of road is a state scenic byway? It is? MS. It's not a state road. Echo road. It's not a state road. It's not a state road. It's a state scenic byway. And there are requirements that it must preserve. My question is, is that in conflict with the state requirements? No. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak? Close public hearing. Bring it back for discussion or motion. This fence will be located on private property, not in the public right-of-way of Echo road. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. Please do. In regards to the appeal at the following addresses, 4826 West Wickford, 4760 West Wickford, 1258 Connington Row, 1268 Connington Row, for the dimensional variance for the install of a six-foot-high fence along the hills of Lone Pine perimeter,

  85. MR. I'll open this to the public. Do you have any questions? MR. So you have to come to the microphone, Mr. Dash. MR. That's a regulatory question. So this section of road is a state scenic byway? It is? MS. It's not a state road. Echo road. It's not a state road. It's not a state road. It's a state scenic byway. And there are requirements that it must preserve. My question is, is that in conflict with the state requirements? No. Thank you. Anyone else would like to speak? Close public hearing. Bring it back for discussion or motion. This fence will be located on private property, not in the public right-of-way of Echo road. Okay. Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. Please do. In regards to the appeal at the following addresses, 4826 West Wickford, 4760 West Wickford, 1258 Connington Row, 1268 Connington Row, for the dimensional variance for the install of a six-foot-high fence along the hills of Lone Pine perimeter, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulties. Difficulty because compliance strictly ordinance be unduly burdensome because again, they were having trespassers people walking under their property and it was identified by the police department to have this type of security. There is no injustice to join neighbors by the reason of these are the neighbors requesting it. And again, this is a heavily wooded area. Very dense. Neek circumstances have probably been demonstrated given the fact that again, there's already fencing that's approved in certain areas. This creates a continuity of the same type of fencing. This is not self created because again, we already approved variances for fencing in these other public areas. This will just continue to connect it and make it more visually appealing to our residents. If this is approved, all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of any products. Support. Motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you very much. Calling item 12, 7400 Telegraph.

  86. 1258 Connington Row, 1268 Connington Row, for the dimensional variance for the install of a six-foot-high fence along the hills of Lone Pine perimeter, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulties. Difficulty because compliance strictly ordinance be unduly burdensome because again, they were having trespassers people walking under their property and it was identified by the police department to have this type of security. There is no injustice to join neighbors by the reason of these are the neighbors requesting it. And again, this is a heavily wooded area. Very dense. Neek circumstances have probably been demonstrated given the fact that again, there's already fencing that's approved in certain areas. This creates a continuity of the same type of fencing. This is not self created because again, we already approved variances for fencing in these other public areas. This will just continue to connect it and make it more visually appealing to our residents. If this is approved, all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of any products. Support. Motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you very much. Calling item 12, 7400 Telegraph. Good evening. I'm Melanie Weber. I'm representing 7400 Telegraph Road, Temple Bethel. We're proposing the installation of two access controlled gates along our Telegraph Road frontage, a pull gate located at the northmost point of the property near 14 Mile and a lift gate position closer to our building. Together these gates will create a controlled entry point that significantly strengthens the safety and security of our campus. This system is a vital security measure designed to protect our community, students, and staff by ensuring that any authorized individuals can access the property, especially during school hours and active programming. In today's environment, this level of access control is essential to maintaining a safe and secure campus. Both gates will be fully integrated into our security infrastructure, and the lift gate will properly be equipped with access capabilities for local police and fire departments, ensuring immediate unobstructed entry for first responders at all times. This installation is a proactive and necessary step in enhancing our overall security and reflects an unwavering commitment to providing a safe, secure, and well-protected environment

  87. Good evening. I'm Melanie Weber. I'm representing 7400 Telegraph Road, Temple Bethel. We're proposing the installation of two access controlled gates along our Telegraph Road frontage, a pull gate located at the northmost point of the property near 14 Mile and a lift gate position closer to our building. Together these gates will create a controlled entry point that significantly strengthens the safety and security of our campus. This system is a vital security measure designed to protect our community, students, and staff by ensuring that any authorized individuals can access the property, especially during school hours and active programming. In today's environment, this level of access control is essential to maintaining a safe and secure campus. Both gates will be fully integrated into our security infrastructure, and the lift gate will properly be equipped with access capabilities for local police and fire departments, ensuring immediate unobstructed entry for first responders at all times. This installation is a proactive and necessary step in enhancing our overall security and reflects an unwavering commitment to providing a safe, secure, and well-protected environment for all of our utilized on campus. Thank you very much. Any questions? I just have. Which gate? Both of them. The lift gate is the one that's closer to the building, that you see on the right-hand side, and the one on the left side is the pole gate. Which is going to be more towards the northern side for the new development, right? Correct, yes. Okay. Yeah, just the lift gate seems like, I totally understand why you want this, okay, don't take any of this negative, but it just seems like the lift gate, you just drive right through it. It's just a wooden arm, right? No, it's electric. It's what? I mean, I just have to, I mean, you can, you cannot enter into the- You can't, you can't enter into the- I mean, you cannot enter into the- property it's only for exiting the property this is Carol is suggesting it's not a strong enough period yeah that's not for us to know I just was curious why you selected that because it's you can just drive right through that right just a thought was this recommended by your security yes it was discussed by the Federation with their security as well as with our security team and other local law enforcement's that Bloomfield Hills Township fully

  88. reflects an unwavering commitment to providing a safe, secure, and well-protected environment for all of our utilized on campus. Thank you very much. Any questions? I just have. Which gate? Both of them. The lift gate is the one that's closer to the building, that you see on the right-hand side, and the one on the left side is the pole gate. Which is going to be more towards the northern side for the new development, right? Correct, yes. Okay. Yeah, just the lift gate seems like, I totally understand why you want this, okay, don't take any of this negative, but it just seems like the lift gate, you just drive right through it. It's just a wooden arm, right? No, it's electric. It's what? I mean, I just have to, I mean, you can, you cannot enter into the- You can't, you can't enter into the- I mean, you cannot enter into the- property it's only for exiting the property this is Carol is suggesting it's not a strong enough period yeah that's not for us to know I just was curious why you selected that because it's you can just drive right through that right just a thought was this recommended by your security yes it was discussed by the Federation with their security as well as with our security team and other local law enforcement's that Bloomfield Hills Township fully supports us and they've been amazing helping us navigate for all of this and everything has been discussed with them I just I have the same reaction when I looked at it but I mean it's not for us and they do it also and they can always come back and upgrade if they want right exactly this is the start in the right something to watch and think about when you know I appreciate that hopefully you never have to use it I'll open the public anyone would like to speak on the side my good neighbors for 30 plus years if they want to put in something like this I'm all for it that's wonderful thanks Tom that's really nice you just stay through this meeting to say that so anyone else would like to speak close public hearing and bring it back for a motion let's go you want to go care about me too sure I'll go with respect to prep I would love to. Okay. So with respect to the variance request, we're going to go permission request first. At 7400 Telegraph Road, I approve the, for the accessory structure, I approve the variance be approved as submitted.

  89. team and other local law enforcement's that Bloomfield Hills Township fully supports us and they've been amazing helping us navigate for all of this and everything has been discussed with them I just I have the same reaction when I looked at it but I mean it's not for us and they do it also and they can always come back and upgrade if they want right exactly this is the start in the right something to watch and think about when you know I appreciate that hopefully you never have to use it I'll open the public anyone would like to speak on the side my good neighbors for 30 plus years if they want to put in something like this I'm all for it that's wonderful thanks Tom that's really nice you just stay through this meeting to say that so anyone else would like to speak close public hearing and bring it back for a motion let's go you want to go care about me too sure I'll go with respect to prep I would love to. Okay. So with respect to the variance request, we're going to go permission request first. At 7400 Telegraph Road, I approve the, for the accessory structure, I approve the variance be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood because, again, we've seen the changes in time, what's going on. So additional security at your facility makes perfect sense. Secondary, for the dimensional variance, because the gates are going to be in the front yard, at the appeal at 7400 Telegraph Road, I move the variance be approved as requested based on information presented that the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because you'd not be able to provide security for your congregation. There is no justice to your joining by the reason of not only do your neighbors are in support of it, but again, this is about safety. Unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given the fact that we can all read the news and see what's going on. So, again, additional security measures on that property would be perfect. This is not self-created due to the environmental factors. If approved, all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to any installation. Support, but I have something to add if possible. I noticed in reading when you went to the design review board, the fire department had four specific recommendations for you, and I would like to incorporate those as part of our motion as well. Yes. And that would be from the April 1, 2020.

  90. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood because, again, we've seen the changes in time, what's going on. So additional security at your facility makes perfect sense. Secondary, for the dimensional variance, because the gates are going to be in the front yard, at the appeal at 7400 Telegraph Road, I move the variance be approved as requested based on information presented that the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because you'd not be able to provide security for your congregation. There is no justice to your joining by the reason of not only do your neighbors are in support of it, but again, this is about safety. Unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given the fact that we can all read the news and see what's going on. So, again, additional security measures on that property would be perfect. This is not self-created due to the environmental factors. If approved, all necessary permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to any installation. Support, but I have something to add if possible. I noticed in reading when you went to the design review board, the fire department had four specific recommendations for you, and I would like to incorporate those as part of our motion as well. Yes. And that would be from the April 1, 2020. 26 meeting. And to hold harmless. If that's okay. Yes. Is that one of those ones in there? Why don't you let her know in case she can't remember. Yeah. I think she remembers. Okay. The driveway width myth. The driveway width must not be further restricted. The gates must include emergency access features such as a Knox key switch for emergency entry and SOS emergency vehicle preemption system and a full open mechanism that allows the gates to automatically open upon power loss or activation. Correct. Yes. Okay. Perfect. I just think the minutes should reflect that. That's a great idea. And hold harmless. Correct. And the hold harmless. Which you meant to add. I did meant to add. Thank you so much for helping me, Carol. Okay. Support for the amended. So we have a motion of support for the amended motion with some really great detail in it. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Calling item 132527. Telegraph.

  91. 26 meeting. And to hold harmless. If that's okay. Yes. Is that one of those ones in there? Why don't you let her know in case she can't remember. Yeah. I think she remembers. Okay. The driveway width myth. The driveway width must not be further restricted. The gates must include emergency access features such as a Knox key switch for emergency entry and SOS emergency vehicle preemption system and a full open mechanism that allows the gates to automatically open upon power loss or activation. Correct. Yes. Okay. Perfect. I just think the minutes should reflect that. That's a great idea. And hold harmless. Correct. And the hold harmless. Which you meant to add. I did meant to add. Thank you so much for helping me, Carol. Okay. Support for the amended. So we have a motion of support for the amended motion with some really great detail in it. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Calling item 132527. Telegraph. Good evening. Richie Ato with BCD Bloomfield is the property owner and Evelyn. Here's the tenant that's getting ready to open up a great new bakery in the township. So I need to take care. That's all. And we're here again for around the seventh or eighth time because our monument sign is a necessary part of letting people know how to get in and out of the property. And since the ordinance only allows one sign, even though there's an existing sign that's been approved, every time a tenant needs to add a spot on that monument sign, as well as their building sign, it requires a variance. So we're here for that variance, and also the prior tenant on the corner had two signs because it's hard to see the way the building is rotated. Obviously, it's a difficult site. We have our addresses on Telegraph Road, but yet we have no telegraph ingress or egress. It's shared with the property next door. So we respectfully ask for the variance, for the excess and square footage to have the two building signs, as well as the name on the existing monument sign that's been in existence for many years.

  92. Good evening. Richie Ato with BCD Bloomfield is the property owner and Evelyn. Here's the tenant that's getting ready to open up a great new bakery in the township. So I need to take care. That's all. And we're here again for around the seventh or eighth time because our monument sign is a necessary part of letting people know how to get in and out of the property. And since the ordinance only allows one sign, even though there's an existing sign that's been approved, every time a tenant needs to add a spot on that monument sign, as well as their building sign, it requires a variance. So we're here for that variance, and also the prior tenant on the corner had two signs because it's hard to see the way the building is rotated. Obviously, it's a difficult site. We have our addresses on Telegraph Road, but yet we have no telegraph ingress or egress. It's shared with the property next door. So we respectfully ask for the variance, for the excess and square footage to have the two building signs, as well as the name on the existing monument sign that's been in existence for many years. And, you know, we'll keep coming back if ever another tenant needed to have a name on it because that's the whole purpose of the sign. And if you have a minute or two, I'd like to introduce Evelyn to tell you just a little bit about the business that she's planning to open here shortly. Sure thing. You've waited this long. We can listen to what you're cooking up. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi, I'm Evelyn. This is Glicos Bakehouse. It's going to be based off of my Greek heritage, some traditional bakes as well as in-house baked everything from bake from your baguettes to your focaccias. All your sandwiches will be baked on our home baked breads, all our pastries, everything is in-house locally sourced and green and organic. So it's going to be hopefully very delightful. We will hopefully open some point mid this summer. I just wanted to make one note if I could in regard to the sign and the extra square footage. The other units, so this unit used to be one whole unit that was separated into two units and the other units on the building do have like

  93. So we respectfully ask for the variance, for the excess and square footage to have the two building signs, as well as the name on the existing monument sign that's been in existence for many years. And, you know, we'll keep coming back if ever another tenant needed to have a name on it because that's the whole purpose of the sign. And if you have a minute or two, I'd like to introduce Evelyn to tell you just a little bit about the business that she's planning to open here shortly. Sure thing. You've waited this long. We can listen to what you're cooking up. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi, I'm Evelyn. This is Glicos Bakehouse. It's going to be based off of my Greek heritage, some traditional bakes as well as in-house baked everything from bake from your baguettes to your focaccias. All your sandwiches will be baked on our home baked breads, all our pastries, everything is in-house locally sourced and green and organic. So it's going to be hopefully very delightful. We will hopefully open some point mid this summer. I just wanted to make one note if I could in regard to the sign and the extra square footage. The other units, so this unit used to be one whole unit that was separated into two units and the other units on the building do have like this white alcove of like a concrete base behind and we are assigned against all brick and brown brick, which is why we just wanted it to stand out a little bit. And so I just wanted to make that point. I think we did submit images at the design planning meeting of our neighbors and their signage, I believe. So I just wanted to note that, but thank you for your time. Will you be full now? Is there any other space left after this? Yeah, I took the last one. That's what I thought. You're full now, right? The reason there's five positions on the sign is because the last tenant that moved in, the Verizon, they took one on the sign, seagulled for the next two. The second one. So this is where we can stay the next one. You can go to the next one. The third one is the other room. The fifth one is the first term. two spaces they wanted more space because they liked it the location and being in the township so i don't know what will happen with the with the last panel but we may ask to put the address there just to make it easier to identify okay i'll open this to the public you want to comment on this sign close public hearing and we'll need a motion with respect for property located at 2527 south telegraph road i would move

  94. one whole unit that was separated into two units and the other units on the building do have like this white alcove of like a concrete base behind and we are assigned against all brick and brown brick, which is why we just wanted it to stand out a little bit. And so I just wanted to make that point. I think we did submit images at the design planning meeting of our neighbors and their signage, I believe. So I just wanted to note that, but thank you for your time. Will you be full now? Is there any other space left after this? Yeah, I took the last one. That's what I thought. You're full now, right? The reason there's five positions on the sign is because the last tenant that moved in, the Verizon, they took one on the sign, seagulled for the next two. The second one. So this is where we can stay the next one. You can go to the next one. The third one is the other room. The fifth one is the first term. two spaces they wanted more space because they liked it the location and being in the township so i don't know what will happen with the with the last panel but we may ask to put the address there just to make it easier to identify okay i'll open this to the public you want to comment on this sign close public hearing and we'll need a motion with respect for property located at 2527 south telegraph road i would move to grant the request for dimensional variance because the applicant has demonstrated uh practical difficulty um this property is unique both in its size and the way it's located on the are two very heavily traveled roads in addition the building itself is not positioned straight on any road and is angled making it difficult to actually see what tenants are within the structure and i think that's unique to the property and creates a real difficulty and it's not self-created if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the signs support motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted good luck. Thank you very much. Thank you. And the part of the public comment of the next Senate, I support Mr. Butler. Okay, so calling item 14, 1801, South Telegraph.

  95. and we'll need a motion with respect for property located at 2527 south telegraph road i would move to grant the request for dimensional variance because the applicant has demonstrated uh practical difficulty um this property is unique both in its size and the way it's located on the are two very heavily traveled roads in addition the building itself is not positioned straight on any road and is angled making it difficult to actually see what tenants are within the structure and i think that's unique to the property and creates a real difficulty and it's not self-created if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the signs support motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted good luck. Thank you very much. Thank you. And the part of the public comment of the next Senate, I support Mr. Butler. Okay, so calling item 14, 1801, South Telegraph. Last but not least. Good evening, Jim Butler with PEA Group. I'm here on behalf of J. Zimmer Development Company. We are proposing the construction of a new Culver's restaurant on Telegraph Road. Essentially, it'll be in the parking lot of the existing Lowe's facility, essentially on the frontage of that piece. So tonight, we're asking your consideration for two permission requests and six-dimensional variances. I'll handle the permission request and gentlemen from Metro Science will be handling the signage. The first request is related to the location of the ground transformer. This is a unique parcel once we divide this thing up. Our transformer is located at the rear of our building. It's close proximity to the rear of the building. But unfortunately, given the way the parcel is laid out, it doesn't fall in the rear setback. It actually falls in the side yard setback. For us to put it into this rear setback, we'd have to move it from the building and put it more towards the north. It is fully screened. It's actually screened by the dumpster that's there. And we do have vegetative screening around it. The second The second

  96. Last but not least. Good evening, Jim Butler with PEA Group. I'm here on behalf of J. Zimmer Development Company. We are proposing the construction of a new Culver's restaurant on Telegraph Road. Essentially, it'll be in the parking lot of the existing Lowe's facility, essentially on the frontage of that piece. So tonight, we're asking your consideration for two permission requests and six-dimensional variances. I'll handle the permission request and gentlemen from Metro Science will be handling the signage. The first request is related to the location of the ground transformer. This is a unique parcel once we divide this thing up. Our transformer is located at the rear of our building. It's close proximity to the rear of the building. But unfortunately, given the way the parcel is laid out, it doesn't fall in the rear setback. It actually falls in the side yard setback. For us to put it into this rear setback, we'd have to move it from the building and put it more towards the north. It is fully screened. It's actually screened by the dumpster that's there. And we do have vegetative screening around it. The second The second um permission request is for a a shed we have an over incised dumpster location if corey can kind of zoom in on that area behind the building there are two dumpsters there are two containers that are there and then there is a shed that we are proposing that is contained within the dumpster enclosure this is for snowblowers for landscaping for power washing things like that to maintain the property thank you jim good evening everyone my name is paul leaders i am with metro signs and lighting 11444 cults avenue in warren and and as jim had mentioned here we sort of have an unusual location um and so as a result of that the the owner is asking for your consideration for some additional wall signage but it's part of the the challenge of this location is because the building's orientation to the road and also the topography for southbound traffic when they're come approaching the site they're cresting a hill there and there's several trees in the median between this as you know cars are going to be traveling at an awfully high high rate of speed

  97. um permission request is for a a shed we have an over incised dumpster location if corey can kind of zoom in on that area behind the building there are two dumpsters there are two containers that are there and then there is a shed that we are proposing that is contained within the dumpster enclosure this is for snowblowers for landscaping for power washing things like that to maintain the property thank you jim good evening everyone my name is paul leaders i am with metro signs and lighting 11444 cults avenue in warren and and as jim had mentioned here we sort of have an unusual location um and so as a result of that the the owner is asking for your consideration for some additional wall signage but it's part of the the challenge of this location is because the building's orientation to the road and also the topography for southbound traffic when they're come approaching the site they're cresting a hill there and there's several trees in the median between this as you know cars are going to be traveling at an awfully high high rate of speed there there's not a traffic light immediately adjacent to this what we're hoping to be able to do is get some wall signage that will make it easier for cars to be able to get into the proper lane you you identify where the Culver's is so that they can enter the site. We do have a ground sign that you don't see here that's been approved as part of the package or applied for that's fairly small. The issue is that the ground sign, just the way everything laid out, is 95 feet north of the entry drive. That's really a long way away for somebody going probably 60 miles an hour, let's call it at least, on telegraph there. So having some wall signs a little bit higher up in their sight line, preferably facing telegraph, and then the south elevation maybe over the front door, even as they're headed north, which is I know we're asking for a lot, but it's difficult to see this location. So we're asking to be able to have these relatively modestly sized Culver's identifications. signs on the building to enable people to identify that a little bit easier as they're heading into that from Telegraph Road.

  98. between this as you know cars are going to be traveling at an awfully high high rate of speed there there's not a traffic light immediately adjacent to this what we're hoping to be able to do is get some wall signage that will make it easier for cars to be able to get into the proper lane you you identify where the Culver's is so that they can enter the site. We do have a ground sign that you don't see here that's been approved as part of the package or applied for that's fairly small. The issue is that the ground sign, just the way everything laid out, is 95 feet north of the entry drive. That's really a long way away for somebody going probably 60 miles an hour, let's call it at least, on telegraph there. So having some wall signs a little bit higher up in their sight line, preferably facing telegraph, and then the south elevation maybe over the front door, even as they're headed north, which is I know we're asking for a lot, but it's difficult to see this location. So we're asking to be able to have these relatively modestly sized Culver's identifications. signs on the building to enable people to identify that a little bit easier as they're heading into that from Telegraph Road. So as you're going north on Telegraph and you've got the Lowe's on your right-hand side, that sign is actually past where you're supposed to turn and it goes? It's 100 feet north of it. Holy smokes. Yeah, it's going to make it really difficult because, but we couldn't put it right next to the Lowe's sign and it's not really on their property. It's a little bit farther away, and most people would generally think that that ground sign is right at the entry. And they're going to need to identify the building before that, and what they're going to have to do is they're going to have to turn around twice to get back in there, and that's probably going to cost them some customers if that's the case. I could make a comment that the ground sign could be considered to be their primary sign by right because it complies. Okay, so that could technically be removed from this request in the sense if that's their one permitted sign because it complies. Okay. We listed it because of all the secondary, tertiary, and however you go up amount of signs,

  99. signs on the building to enable people to identify that a little bit easier as they're heading into that from Telegraph Road. So as you're going north on Telegraph and you've got the Lowe's on your right-hand side, that sign is actually past where you're supposed to turn and it goes? It's 100 feet north of it. Holy smokes. Yeah, it's going to make it really difficult because, but we couldn't put it right next to the Lowe's sign and it's not really on their property. It's a little bit farther away, and most people would generally think that that ground sign is right at the entry. And they're going to need to identify the building before that, and what they're going to have to do is they're going to have to turn around twice to get back in there, and that's probably going to cost them some customers if that's the case. I could make a comment that the ground sign could be considered to be their primary sign by right because it complies. Okay, so that could technically be removed from this request in the sense if that's their one permitted sign because it complies. Okay. We listed it because of all the secondary, tertiary, and however you go up amount of signs, so I just want to put that before the board for consideration. Okay. Chairman, I have a question. I don't have a question on the sign. I'm going to go back to the other gentleman. Do most of your culvers have sheds on the property? Yes. Really? That's a standard feature? Yeah. Do you normally put them in that? Typically, they're within the enclosure. Are they taller than the enclosure? Yes, for the most part, because they want the roof to be sloped, so you have snow load on top of it. Yeah. I don't love being able to see it, but if you notice, I'm big on screening. Yes. So you've got to sit through two hours of it. that so it's hard for me to give you something that i think i'm consistent so that's the thing i got to figure out so well if you come up with a solution for that because i don't think we can make the garage enclosure the garbage enclosure taller right no isn't that a standard is it standard it's standard 68 yeah and if it's taller is that a different variance we don't actually have a height requirement for um uh dumpster enclosures it the general rule of thumb is that

  100. so I just want to put that before the board for consideration. Okay. Chairman, I have a question. I don't have a question on the sign. I'm going to go back to the other gentleman. Do most of your culvers have sheds on the property? Yes. Really? That's a standard feature? Yeah. Do you normally put them in that? Typically, they're within the enclosure. Are they taller than the enclosure? Yes, for the most part, because they want the roof to be sloped, so you have snow load on top of it. Yeah. I don't love being able to see it, but if you notice, I'm big on screening. Yes. So you've got to sit through two hours of it. that so it's hard for me to give you something that i think i'm consistent so that's the thing i got to figure out so well if you come up with a solution for that because i don't think we can make the garage enclosure the garbage enclosure taller right no isn't that a standard is it standard it's standard 68 yeah and if it's taller is that a different variance we don't actually have a height requirement for um uh dumpster enclosures it the general rule of thumb is that is to clear and cover the enclosures that are inside of it this instance is a little bit different than that okay so the spirit of it is to cover and block view whatever is in there that's the spirit of it so that's why six feet is normal because that's the height of most garbage dumpsters and stuff so again not trying to be nipped no i understand i get your point it's unusual i looked at it i thought that the shed threw me off i never noticed that at culver's before i didn't either okay i would love to see what my board members think about how we can address that problem unless it's not a problem for them well unless you don't want to give them the shed i don't know how you can't really how much taller is the shed than the how tall is the shed um it's just under 10 feet the high point to the top of the shed because it's sloped you yeah I mean if you look at the location of this whole thing I mean the shed with the Culver's isn't doesn't bother me I understand there's probably sheds in the lowest parking lot so as I think about this I think more so I guess in the

  101. have a height requirement for um uh dumpster enclosures it the general rule of thumb is that is to clear and cover the enclosures that are inside of it this instance is a little bit different than that okay so the spirit of it is to cover and block view whatever is in there that's the spirit of it so that's why six feet is normal because that's the height of most garbage dumpsters and stuff so again not trying to be nipped no i understand i get your point it's unusual i looked at it i thought that the shed threw me off i never noticed that at culver's before i didn't either okay i would love to see what my board members think about how we can address that problem unless it's not a problem for them well unless you don't want to give them the shed i don't know how you can't really how much taller is the shed than the how tall is the shed um it's just under 10 feet the high point to the top of the shed because it's sloped you yeah I mean if you look at the location of this whole thing I mean the shed with the Culver's isn't doesn't bother me I understand there's probably sheds in the lowest parking lot so as I think about this I think more so I guess in the sphere of the law yeah yeah for this location it's kind of blends in yes if you had to put it somewhere wheel barrels out there okay what about the number of signs that's a lot of signs yeah it's just it's a tough spot if you think about like that parking lot as it is right now if you go into Lowe's that is that that is a tough parking lot as it is yeah and then are you guys removing trees from there as part of your plan because it's really screen there it really is because of the tuck back so are they illuminated signs yes they are this is that the standard signage set up for a Culver's yes it is yeah there's a corporate package so that's I mean I think there's a notation there that says you can't any adjustments to this

  102. lowest parking lot so as I think about this I think more so I guess in the sphere of the law yeah yeah for this location it's kind of blends in yes if you had to put it somewhere wheel barrels out there okay what about the number of signs that's a lot of signs yeah it's just it's a tough spot if you think about like that parking lot as it is right now if you go into Lowe's that is that that is a tough parking lot as it is yeah and then are you guys removing trees from there as part of your plan because it's really screen there it really is because of the tuck back so are they illuminated signs yes they are this is that the standard signage set up for a Culver's yes it is yeah there's a corporate package so that's I mean I think there's a notation there that says you can't any adjustments to this layout must be submitted to Culver franchising systems so so this is standard so hypothetically the Culver's is on 15 mile and Clawson has the same sign package they're presented the same sign package there is some latitude that that by community but the franchisees are obligated 45 years ago oh this is what we have to have no they don't so why and I know that McDonald's has different signage but they didn't use to we were a trendsetter and we first of all the franchisee owns and operates other Culver's in the area and they've had to be respectful to local codes as well he's under an obligation to present the package that the franchisees that's what I figured so so that's the ask that's here but they also want to be respectful to the community and to have something that's going to be nice and fit in with with the community this is a very very difficult site to find though so you know if there are if there are some things maybe that the tagline sign that says the the Butterburger that could go and and I and I would just say too is the sign that's proposed on the

  103. layout must be submitted to Culver franchising systems so so this is standard so hypothetically the Culver's is on 15 mile and Clawson has the same sign package they're presented the same sign package there is some latitude that that by community but the franchisees are obligated 45 years ago oh this is what we have to have no they don't so why and I know that McDonald's has different signage but they didn't use to we were a trendsetter and we first of all the franchisee owns and operates other Culver's in the area and they've had to be respectful to local codes as well he's under an obligation to present the package that the franchisees that's what I figured so so that's the ask that's here but they also want to be respectful to the community and to have something that's going to be nice and fit in with with the community this is a very very difficult site to find though so you know if there are if there are some things maybe that the tagline sign that says the the Butterburger that could go and and I and I would just say too is the sign that's proposed on the rear of the building sort of facing the Lowe's lot exactly that doesn't do a whole lot of good here but there is a really strong case for all three of the others And if the three of them in the aggregate are less than the 120 square feet that would be allowed. So I think we would be under the allowable sign area if we were to go at that point. And none of them will be able to, you know, there won't be a proliferation of signs because the viewing angles for each of them are so distinct. And I'm down with that. So are you saying you're dropping the request for the sign in the rear and the two Butterburgers signs? We would like to have all of them, but if the board didn't see fit for it, we would understand your ruling to that. Okay. So you cannot, we're speaking in code here, you can't on your own drop it, but you'd be okay. But I'm saying is, okay, you'd be, you'd walk out of here smiling if we made that motion. That you're willing to accept a variance we would grant. Maybe not totally smiling, but because this is recorded, you'd be yourself. We gave it our best shot.

  104. that could go and and I and I would just say too is the sign that's proposed on the rear of the building sort of facing the Lowe's lot exactly that doesn't do a whole lot of good here but there is a really strong case for all three of the others And if the three of them in the aggregate are less than the 120 square feet that would be allowed. So I think we would be under the allowable sign area if we were to go at that point. And none of them will be able to, you know, there won't be a proliferation of signs because the viewing angles for each of them are so distinct. And I'm down with that. So are you saying you're dropping the request for the sign in the rear and the two Butterburgers signs? We would like to have all of them, but if the board didn't see fit for it, we would understand your ruling to that. Okay. So you cannot, we're speaking in code here, you can't on your own drop it, but you'd be okay. But I'm saying is, okay, you'd be, you'd walk out of here smiling if we made that motion. That you're willing to accept a variance we would grant. Maybe not totally smiling, but because this is recorded, you'd be yourself. We gave it our best shot. Something like that. Yes. Now the one in the back of the building, I understand, but it's also delineating the front door, right? The back of the building. The back of the building. The lowest facing sign. The middle one on the right. So it'll have the canopy as well as that one sign, correct? Can we see the other angle? So the one that Jim is pointing to, that's the back of the building that faces lowest. That's the back of the building. That's facing north, right? Or kind of north. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Thank you very much. No, no, no, the drive-through one is the one that really faces north, that would be, that one. That's the important one, is people are cresting the hill to be able to see. I will say that loses. Because they won't see that ground sign. No, I, yeah. I have no problem with the cover, brand simple signs. I mean. Yeah, if we could just remove that one butter burger thing, I mean. I'd take the one off the back too, I don't think it's necessary. Either of them. Well, you need, you need those two votes, so. Okay. Okay. I would take the one off the back. I, I mean, it's, you know, if somebody's in the Lowe's parking lot, and those are the only ones that are going to see that, they know they've already passed the Culver's.

  105. We gave it our best shot. Something like that. Yes. Now the one in the back of the building, I understand, but it's also delineating the front door, right? The back of the building. The back of the building. The lowest facing sign. The middle one on the right. So it'll have the canopy as well as that one sign, correct? Can we see the other angle? So the one that Jim is pointing to, that's the back of the building that faces lowest. That's the back of the building. That's facing north, right? Or kind of north. Yeah. That's it. Yeah. Thank you very much. No, no, no, the drive-through one is the one that really faces north, that would be, that one. That's the important one, is people are cresting the hill to be able to see. I will say that loses. Because they won't see that ground sign. No, I, yeah. I have no problem with the cover, brand simple signs. I mean. Yeah, if we could just remove that one butter burger thing, I mean. I'd take the one off the back too, I don't think it's necessary. Either of them. Well, you need, you need those two votes, so. Okay. Okay. I would take the one off the back. I, I mean, it's, you know, if somebody's in the Lowe's parking lot, and those are the only ones that are going to see that, they know they've already passed the Culver's. Correct. So I would, I would say in this instance, that, that one could go. Yeah. I don't think we're going to be harming the customers in any way. Or the success of this location. Or the success of the business. Yep. What are the sight lines you see is, or who's going to see the north east sign, Culver's sign? This one with the drive-thru? Not, yeah, I guess, not the drive-thru window, but the drive-thru, I guess, going into the drive-thru. That's the one that talked about accident. That's the one that we said we would get rid of. Oh, that's the one. Okay. Yeah. Discombined. I still believe that. That's the facing Lowe's parking lot. And it still faces commercial property to the north. Got it. That's still commercial. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be the right. Yeah. I just wanted to point on the landscape plan that they are identifying that they're adding along the dumpster enclosure near the shed area. They are proposing a six foot high evergreen hedge along that wall line. So just suggesting that if there was a concern about the visibility of the shed that possibly there would be a consideration to increase the height of the evergreens if that was something that was amenable. Perfect. What's the ground-mounted transformer? That's it right there. Oh, I missed it.

  106. I, I mean, it's, you know, if somebody's in the Lowe's parking lot, and those are the only ones that are going to see that, they know they've already passed the Culver's. Correct. So I would, I would say in this instance, that, that one could go. Yeah. I don't think we're going to be harming the customers in any way. Or the success of this location. Or the success of the business. Yep. What are the sight lines you see is, or who's going to see the north east sign, Culver's sign? This one with the drive-thru? Not, yeah, I guess, not the drive-thru window, but the drive-thru, I guess, going into the drive-thru. That's the one that talked about accident. That's the one that we said we would get rid of. Oh, that's the one. Okay. Yeah. Discombined. I still believe that. That's the facing Lowe's parking lot. And it still faces commercial property to the north. Got it. That's still commercial. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to be the right. Yeah. I just wanted to point on the landscape plan that they are identifying that they're adding along the dumpster enclosure near the shed area. They are proposing a six foot high evergreen hedge along that wall line. So just suggesting that if there was a concern about the visibility of the shed that possibly there would be a consideration to increase the height of the evergreens if that was something that was amenable. Perfect. What's the ground-mounted transformer? That's it right there. Oh, I missed it. Sorry. That's the transformer back where you put the transformer on. Oh, because it's in the side yard. I wondered why we had that. Yeah, because it should be in the rear yard. Unfortunately, the way this property lays out is by definition. Yeah, I'm not so sure I agree with Corey, but it is a sign. Right. It is. Okay. Carol, I want to make the motion since you... Wait, I've got to open the public hearing. Oh, sorry. All right, so I'm going to open the public hearing. So I want to put into the record that Karen Sheldon, who lives in Unit 26B, came at the start of the meeting, talked to me, wanted to note her objection, and then there... And she is in Unit 26B, and Rick Kedziersky, who's in Unit 26B, who's in Unit 26B, who is in Unit 26B, who is in Unit 26B. in Unit 24 also had a letter objecting. So we had two objections to this. Karen's feedback kind of was the same thing as too many signs. And I think we've kind of addressed some of it

  107. was something that was amenable. Perfect. What's the ground-mounted transformer? That's it right there. Oh, I missed it. Sorry. That's the transformer back where you put the transformer on. Oh, because it's in the side yard. I wondered why we had that. Yeah, because it should be in the rear yard. Unfortunately, the way this property lays out is by definition. Yeah, I'm not so sure I agree with Corey, but it is a sign. Right. It is. Okay. Carol, I want to make the motion since you... Wait, I've got to open the public hearing. Oh, sorry. All right, so I'm going to open the public hearing. So I want to put into the record that Karen Sheldon, who lives in Unit 26B, came at the start of the meeting, talked to me, wanted to note her objection, and then there... And she is in Unit 26B, and Rick Kedziersky, who's in Unit 26B, who's in Unit 26B, who is in Unit 26B, who is in Unit 26B. in Unit 24 also had a letter objecting. So we had two objections to this. Karen's feedback kind of was the same thing as too many signs. And I think we've kind of addressed some of it with some of the ideas that we've suggested that the applicant seems to be OK with. So I'll just read that. Yep, all right, so I'll now close the public hearing and then we can bring it back for a motion. OK, I guess I'm doing this one. With regard to the property located at 1801 South Telegraph Road, this is for the proposed new culvert. I would move to grant the permission request for the required shed because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. This is a commercial area, and the size, use, and location of the structure is compatible with that area. I would also move to grant the dimensional variance for signage. Now, in part, and I don't know how to read all these through, but I would move to approve the signs as submitted with the exclusion of the sign on the rear of the building and the sign that says, what do you call it? You're going to make a shield for the point. I don't know the recognition, but I don't know the one, but I don't know if that's

  108. And I think we've kind of addressed some of it with some of the ideas that we've suggested that the applicant seems to be OK with. So I'll just read that. Yep, all right, so I'll now close the public hearing and then we can bring it back for a motion. OK, I guess I'm doing this one. With regard to the property located at 1801 South Telegraph Road, this is for the proposed new culvert. I would move to grant the permission request for the required shed because the applicant has demonstrated compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. This is a commercial area, and the size, use, and location of the structure is compatible with that area. I would also move to grant the dimensional variance for signage. Now, in part, and I don't know how to read all these through, but I would move to approve the signs as submitted with the exclusion of the sign on the rear of the building and the sign that says, what do you call it? You're going to make a shield for the point. I don't know the recognition, but I don't know the one, but I don't know if that's Butterburgers sign and approve the rest based on a practical difficulty. The practical difficulty is due to the unique location of the property, the way the building is situated on the property, the fact that it's on a very highly traveled road with a commercial use right next door that blocks the visibility to some extent. And because of that, compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be burdensome. And there's no injustice to the surrounding commercial properties and it's not self created. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to installation. Support. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? I just want to go first. Yes. Good discussion. Oh, I knew I missed something. So are we going to make them screen the shed? Well, if it's my understanding correctly, right now the plan shows screening to the height of the wall. Which is six feet. Yes. The shed is 11 feet.

  109. Butterburgers sign and approve the rest based on a practical difficulty. The practical difficulty is due to the unique location of the property, the way the building is situated on the property, the fact that it's on a very highly traveled road with a commercial use right next door that blocks the visibility to some extent. And because of that, compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be burdensome. And there's no injustice to the surrounding commercial properties and it's not self created. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to installation. Support. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? I just want to go first. Yes. Good discussion. Oh, I knew I missed something. So are we going to make them screen the shed? Well, if it's my understanding correctly, right now the plan shows screening to the height of the wall. Which is six feet. Yes. The shed is 11 feet. So you can plant six feet arborvitae in there? Yes. Okay, then I'm going to amend my motion to include that they'll be screening on the side of the shed that's visible from the road. roadway to be at the height of 11 feet when planted. Huh? Wherever it is. Oh, you're only screening the north side. Yes. No, I want to screen where you see. When I look at the picture in here. Because it's concrete all around it? Right here, this picture. Oh, I guess it's in the rear. Yeah, here. This is where they're proposing a six-foot planting. It's a sidewalk. I was suggesting that they could be increased if that was a concern. Yes. But that's really the only place that they're screening it, and there's the shed. Oh. I know. They still can't screen it. They can't screen it. You can't screen it. Well, actually, they kind of can. Isn't there a planting right there? Isn't there some? Yeah, but that's on the other side. Where are slopes? I don't think you can screen it. I don't think you can screen it. Yeah, that's mine. I think go with the planting shown on the plant, unless you have a better idea, Chris. Again, I want to be consistent, that's all.

  110. The shed is 11 feet. So you can plant six feet arborvitae in there? Yes. Okay, then I'm going to amend my motion to include that they'll be screening on the side of the shed that's visible from the road. roadway to be at the height of 11 feet when planted. Huh? Wherever it is. Oh, you're only screening the north side. Yes. No, I want to screen where you see. When I look at the picture in here. Because it's concrete all around it? Right here, this picture. Oh, I guess it's in the rear. Yeah, here. This is where they're proposing a six-foot planting. It's a sidewalk. I was suggesting that they could be increased if that was a concern. Yes. But that's really the only place that they're screening it, and there's the shed. Oh. I know. They still can't screen it. They can't screen it. You can't screen it. Well, actually, they kind of can. Isn't there a planting right there? Isn't there some? Yeah, but that's on the other side. Where are slopes? I don't think you can screen it. I don't think you can screen it. Yeah, that's mine. I think go with the planting shown on the plant, unless you have a better idea, Chris. Again, I want to be consistent, that's all. Yeah. I don't think it works here. That's fine. With the cement. Well, because if it would just be 11 feet, we'd see the other side of it. It wouldn't do anything. Yeah. So it would be aesthetically not pleasing. Right. So. Okay. Thank you for your attempt. So we'll take the motion as original. All right, wait. So I just want to ask there, because I don't know if I counted right. Was there one or two Butterburger signs? There's one. There's just one. No Butterburgers. Okay. So there's no Butterburgers. No Butterburgers all. All right. So we just have signs on. three sides and the ground signs okay so I have a motion and support all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request as modified as granted okay thank you so do we have a motion to adjourn so moved there's a second all those in favor aye we're adjourned I was going to welcome our new member