Bloomfield Township Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting on March 10, 2026

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Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

1. 0:00

   I think it's 6.30, we'll start by standing and saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Let's take attendance. Okay, and then I'll need a motion to approve or amend the minutes. I'll move to approve the minutes of the February 10, 2026 meeting. Support. So I have a motion to support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The minutes are approved. As a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees for the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately. As the owner shown on tonight's agenda, there will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium. Address your comment. to the Board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the Board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the Board is required. For a request to be successful, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this helps provide a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. So we'll call the first item 4-6-0-0, Chairing Cross, Item 1-T. Is the applicant ready?

2. 1:15

   Each case will be called separately. As the owner shown on tonight's agenda, there will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium. Address your comment. to the Board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the Board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the Board is required. For a request to be successful, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this helps provide a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. So we'll call the first item 4-6-0-0, Chairing Cross, Item 1-T. Is the applicant ready? Hi. I was here before because my neighbor and I put sheds in our backyard, but I screwed up and didn't have them in the right spot and they even were crossing the property line. So I had a design done and we were coming before you guys, but that kind of stopped quickly because I didn't know, but there was a the city of Bloomfield Township Association. I was in that district and they have even here in the corner of the stricter guidelines than you guys so they pulled me in the hallway so i had to re go back to the drawing board and now i'm back again today and i had them out um to the house and we walked through all their or all the other dimensions where they wanted them and then uh obviously i got a survey done placed them in the appropriate spots and then they they actually stamped and approved it so i satisfied them but i'm before you guys now to see if i can get an approval we have them there we just want to move them uh into the appropriate spots um and we i went ahead already and i did a landscape plan because even if i was getting turned down with the locations of the sheds i was already going to fill that area with trees anyway so i i put a bunch of 16 footers and higher there put a pretty good

3. 2:30

   Hi. I was here before because my neighbor and I put sheds in our backyard, but I screwed up and didn't have them in the right spot and they even were crossing the property line. So I had a design done and we were coming before you guys, but that kind of stopped quickly because I didn't know, but there was a the city of Bloomfield Township Association. I was in that district and they have even here in the corner of the stricter guidelines than you guys so they pulled me in the hallway so i had to re go back to the drawing board and now i'm back again today and i had them out um to the house and we walked through all their or all the other dimensions where they wanted them and then uh obviously i got a survey done placed them in the appropriate spots and then they they actually stamped and approved it so i satisfied them but i'm before you guys now to see if i can get an approval we have them there we just want to move them uh into the appropriate spots um and we i went ahead already and i did a landscape plan because even if i was getting turned down with the locations of the sheds i was already going to fill that area with trees anyway so i i put a bunch of 16 footers and higher there put a pretty good screening um i i think it's satisfied right now with the screening but if i need to put more in i'm going to just look at it i already ordered some more trees but i'm going to look at it once we move the sheds if i need to put a few more in i have no problem doing that and you've worked with your neighbor your neighbor's actually the second agenda item today that's correct i'm representing him um i signed something early on to so he basically i represent him and myself yeah so you're going to cover the second agenda item as well then yes okay which is his shed right right correct yes we wouldn't have you represent someone else. I was hoping you were going to say he had something else going on. No, no. Okay, so the two sheds were, you know, almost next to each other and now you've moved them away from the lot line. You've got the approval of the Bloomfield Estates Homeowner Association which is, you know, a very good thing and you've got screening. Yes, the only thing, we have not moved the sheds yet. No, I know that because you need our approval. Yes. So that's good. Okay. That's good. You're doing a great job. Any questions from the board? Okay.

4. 3:45

   fill that area with trees anyway so i i put a bunch of 16 footers and higher there put a pretty good screening um i i think it's satisfied right now with the screening but if i need to put more in i'm going to just look at it i already ordered some more trees but i'm going to look at it once we move the sheds if i need to put a few more in i have no problem doing that and you've worked with your neighbor your neighbor's actually the second agenda item today that's correct i'm representing him um i signed something early on to so he basically i represent him and myself yeah so you're going to cover the second agenda item as well then yes okay which is his shed right right correct yes we wouldn't have you represent someone else. I was hoping you were going to say he had something else going on. No, no. Okay, so the two sheds were, you know, almost next to each other and now you've moved them away from the lot line. You've got the approval of the Bloomfield Estates Homeowner Association which is, you know, a very good thing and you've got screening. Yes, the only thing, we have not moved the sheds yet. No, I know that because you need our approval. Yes. So that's good. Okay. That's good. You're doing a great job. Any questions from the board? Okay. I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this? I'll close the public hearing and bring it back for questions. Just a couple comments. I did drive by this when it first came on the agenda. I could see you invested in some landscaping and trees, which I really appreciated. Again, if you thought it was 12 feet, you bought 16 foot. There may be a couple gaps that we may need to fill in, but besides that, I can tell that you are trying to ensure that the neighbors and you don't make a negative impact to anybody. Because again, your property does butt along waddles there. So I appreciate that. Unless anybody else says anything, I'd like to make a motion. Anyone else? Okay. Please do. Thank you. All right. We'll go with the permission request. In regards to the appeal at 4600 char crossing, for the accessory structure, I move the request be submitted as approved. Approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards. It's charged with section 42-76 standards. Thank you. because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood, as many people have accessory sheds for some of their lawn equipment, some of those things. And with that, we'll go with the second one, dimensional variance,

5. 5:00

   You're doing a great job. Any questions from the board? Okay. I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this? I'll close the public hearing and bring it back for questions. Just a couple comments. I did drive by this when it first came on the agenda. I could see you invested in some landscaping and trees, which I really appreciated. Again, if you thought it was 12 feet, you bought 16 foot. There may be a couple gaps that we may need to fill in, but besides that, I can tell that you are trying to ensure that the neighbors and you don't make a negative impact to anybody. Because again, your property does butt along waddles there. So I appreciate that. Unless anybody else says anything, I'd like to make a motion. Anyone else? Okay. Please do. Thank you. All right. We'll go with the permission request. In regards to the appeal at 4600 char crossing, for the accessory structure, I move the request be submitted as approved. Approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards. It's charged with section 42-76 standards. Thank you. because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood, as many people have accessory sheds for some of their lawn equipment, some of those things. And with that, we'll go with the second one, dimensional variance, because it's located in the secondary frontage. Correct. In regards to the appeal at 4,600 char crossing for the setback requirement, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because he has a unique lot. There is an additional driveway over there for where some of his workers and some of the maintenance people go, so the location of the shed matches that. There is no injustice to the enjoying neighbors by the reason, first, his neighbor wanted to put a shed next to him, as well as we are going to be over-screening this, which he's already started to do. Unique circumstances of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact of how long this property is. Again, it's a very small portion of his property is on the Waddle's frontage as well. So this is not self-credit because, again, this is how the lot was planted. If this motion is approved, all applications for all necessary permits must be made within five business days. And then additional overgreens plantings may be required so we can complete... Tell us about your neighbor's location. First of all, it's almost identical to mine in the sense of the screening, all the trees, because I did all the plantings on both properties, so it went right across both. So his is actually probably going to be even more shielded than mine. But it's not the same thing. What do you think is the other type of property property that you are doing?

6. 6:15

   because it's located in the secondary frontage. Correct. In regards to the appeal at 4,600 char crossing for the setback requirement, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because he has a unique lot. There is an additional driveway over there for where some of his workers and some of the maintenance people go, so the location of the shed matches that. There is no injustice to the enjoying neighbors by the reason, first, his neighbor wanted to put a shed next to him, as well as we are going to be over-screening this, which he's already started to do. Unique circumstances of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact of how long this property is. Again, it's a very small portion of his property is on the Waddle's frontage as well. So this is not self-credit because, again, this is how the lot was planted. If this motion is approved, all applications for all necessary permits must be made within five business days. And then additional overgreens plantings may be required so we can complete... Tell us about your neighbor's location. First of all, it's almost identical to mine in the sense of the screening, all the trees, because I did all the plantings on both properties, so it went right across both. So his is actually probably going to be even more shielded than mine. But it's not the same thing. What do you think is the other type of property property that you are doing? because the location that we're moving it into is already very mature woods. So he's gonna be shielded more, but I'm also planning on putting a few more pines, because I think pines block during the winter where when the leaves and the foliage falls off the trees, you can see through there. We don't like that. So I'll probably put- Well, and that's the requirement of the ordinance is it has to be obscured 12 months out of the year, so you need to use that regreen. Yeah, that's just common sense to me. I was gonna do that anyways. Okay. All right, any questions from the board? I'll open this to the public. Anyone who'd like to speak? Close the public hearing and bring it back for another motion. I can make a motion. Okay, thank you. I'll start with the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 4530 Charing Cross Road for the accessory structure of a shed, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. Because the use of accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood, again, sheds are very, very common for storing all types of things. Um, in reference to the dimensional variance at the same location of 4530 Charing Cross Road, um, for the accessory structure of a shed, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented,

7. 7:30

   because the location that we're moving it into is already very mature woods. So he's gonna be shielded more, but I'm also planning on putting a few more pines, because I think pines block during the winter where when the leaves and the foliage falls off the trees, you can see through there. We don't like that. So I'll probably put- Well, and that's the requirement of the ordinance is it has to be obscured 12 months out of the year, so you need to use that regreen. Yeah, that's just common sense to me. I was gonna do that anyways. Okay. All right, any questions from the board? I'll open this to the public. Anyone who'd like to speak? Close the public hearing and bring it back for another motion. I can make a motion. Okay, thank you. I'll start with the permission request first. In regards to the appeal at 4530 Charing Cross Road for the accessory structure of a shed, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. Because the use of accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood, again, sheds are very, very common for storing all types of things. Um, in reference to the dimensional variance at the same location of 4530 Charing Cross Road, um, for the accessory structure of a shed, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty. because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome, um, because, uh, without a shed, he would not be able to store unnecessary equipment. Uh, there's no one- justice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be heavily screened 12 months out of the year the unique circumstances of the property is that it has two frontages and that's why he needs a variance and because of that it is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes application for unnecessary permits must be made within five business days and additional evergreen plantings may be required in the same case as yours if there's any gaps to make sure that it is screened from public view it must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting support so I have a motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request yes thank you you're welcome thank you very much so calling the next item 3t 4246 sandy lane and I just want to confirm again who can vote on this one because we this came before us we had quite a robust

8. 8:45

   Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty. because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome, um, because, uh, without a shed, he would not be able to store unnecessary equipment. Uh, there's no one- justice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be heavily screened 12 months out of the year the unique circumstances of the property is that it has two frontages and that's why he needs a variance and because of that it is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes application for unnecessary permits must be made within five business days and additional evergreen plantings may be required in the same case as yours if there's any gaps to make sure that it is screened from public view it must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of planting support so I have a motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request yes thank you you're welcome thank you very much so calling the next item 3t 4246 sandy lane and I just want to confirm again who can vote on this one because we this came before us we had quite a robust discussion some comments and now they're back I'm so just a point of clarification on the detached garage was reviewed and there was deliberation that was held by this board in the at the January meeting because this item was tabled those members that were part of that original deliberation and tabling are the only members that can take action and deliberate on this item so that would exclude I believe it was Carol Rosati as well as Andrea O'Donnell so that they will not be voting on this item so you would need to get four votes from or deliberating correct so they really but then so does that is that clear okay the second part of it is the retaining wall which was existing we did have an opportunity to go out there and we did verify that there's one aspect of it that's currently non-compliant in the field and that is the height of the wall being at five feet that is a new item that has never been heard or deliberated on so therefore all seven members can hear on that item that clear on that so garage that's it's just those who were

9. 10:00

   vote on this one because we this came before us we had quite a robust discussion some comments and now they're back I'm so just a point of clarification on the detached garage was reviewed and there was deliberation that was held by this board in the at the January meeting because this item was tabled those members that were part of that original deliberation and tabling are the only members that can take action and deliberate on this item so that would exclude I believe it was Carol Rosati as well as Andrea O'Donnell so that they will not be voting on this item so you would need to get four votes from or deliberating correct so they really but then so does that is that clear okay the second part of it is the retaining wall which was existing we did have an opportunity to go out there and we did verify that there's one aspect of it that's currently non-compliant in the field and that is the height of the wall being at five feet that is a new item that has never been heard or deliberated on so therefore all seven members can hear on that item that clear on that so garage that's it's just those who were here for the January hearing retaining walls everyone proceed good evening thank you again to the board and township for letting us explore exciting unique project thanks to Harold and Gus Kukovic landscape designer they're here to provide their knowledge as well and make it come to fruition I also want to recognize mr. tree tie he's not present he's a designer yes his name is tree not a tree and not an arbor whitey a tree he's a good guy does incredible landscaping he's done some beautiful renderings but we're returning today just to go over the updated plans update landscape and the red rings are all up to date we'll share our ideas thoughts so we did quarter me a meeting with the members as requested you guys got minutes we're aware of what took place that meeting was discussed it's been quite a journey we feel we've met all the requests from the board and look forward to an approval today but give me a minute just to change gears and take a little off this a few images first here's the property layout this is where my house sits in red okay I've driven two lines there the house the

10. 11:15

    hear on that item that clear on that so garage that's it's just those who were here for the January hearing retaining walls everyone proceed good evening thank you again to the board and township for letting us explore exciting unique project thanks to Harold and Gus Kukovic landscape designer they're here to provide their knowledge as well and make it come to fruition I also want to recognize mr. tree tie he's not present he's a designer yes his name is tree not a tree and not an arbor whitey a tree he's a good guy does incredible landscaping he's done some beautiful renderings but we're returning today just to go over the updated plans update landscape and the red rings are all up to date we'll share our ideas thoughts so we did quarter me a meeting with the members as requested you guys got minutes we're aware of what took place that meeting was discussed it's been quite a journey we feel we've met all the requests from the board and look forward to an approval today but give me a minute just to change gears and take a little off this a few images first here's the property layout this is where my house sits in red okay I've driven two lines there the house the two houses are in question are the neighbors that have some issues can you go to the next next image now the wonderful thing about about you gotta open it yeah you gotta make that giant you can see Google really helps you to decide how big how far this is away and that house is approximately 200 and some feet away and the other image will show the other house is 180 feet away okay so you can see the distances there so what I'd like to talk about right now it's football okay that Lions Packers not Packers go green go green go white go blue all of them I don't want to talk about football I don't want to talk about making a football field in my backyard that's not the intention the intention is to talk about field goals go to the next image real quick everyone's seen a field goal and this is what field goal posts look like size and dimensions it's at 18 feet wide harold how wide is our garage 16 16 wide is the garage how high is the garage uh total from the lowest grade to the very very 56 there's only 28 28 feet high so you got goal

11. 12:30

    where my house sits in red okay I've driven two lines there the house the two houses are in question are the neighbors that have some issues can you go to the next next image now the wonderful thing about about you gotta open it yeah you gotta make that giant you can see Google really helps you to decide how big how far this is away and that house is approximately 200 and some feet away and the other image will show the other house is 180 feet away okay so you can see the distances there so what I'd like to talk about right now it's football okay that Lions Packers not Packers go green go green go white go blue all of them I don't want to talk about football I don't want to talk about making a football field in my backyard that's not the intention the intention is to talk about field goals go to the next image real quick everyone's seen a field goal and this is what field goal posts look like size and dimensions it's at 18 feet wide harold how wide is our garage 16 16 wide is the garage how high is the garage uh total from the lowest grade to the very very 56 there's only 28 28 feet high so you got goal post you got a 60 yard field goal that we're going to kick what do you think the kicker sees from 60 yards well there's a beautiful thing called ai ai is amazing google's amazing and if you can imagine being on board field 60 yards away what do you think you see if you want to click on the next piece let's see what ai says ai tells you the uprights appear the equivalent the width of a standard pencil hamed at arm's length that's what you see at 60 yards that's how far away these people are from my property i know there's some issues we're going to talk about within the ordinance but i want you to know i'm not trying to offend anybody i'm trying to build a beautiful piece of property that enhances bloomfield township foxcroft our neighbors our subdivision the design flows right with my house is this what we all want is a beautiful home to write to enjoy and desire we've done what the board has asked the design so

12. 13:45

    uh total from the lowest grade to the very very 56 there's only 28 28 feet high so you got goal post you got a 60 yard field goal that we're going to kick what do you think the kicker sees from 60 yards well there's a beautiful thing called ai ai is amazing google's amazing and if you can imagine being on board field 60 yards away what do you think you see if you want to click on the next piece let's see what ai says ai tells you the uprights appear the equivalent the width of a standard pencil hamed at arm's length that's what you see at 60 yards that's how far away these people are from my property i know there's some issues we're going to talk about within the ordinance but i want you to know i'm not trying to offend anybody i'm trying to build a beautiful piece of property that enhances bloomfield township foxcroft our neighbors our subdivision the design flows right with my house is this what we all want is a beautiful home to write to enjoy and desire we've done what the board has asked the design so flow flow cleanly with the house if we go back to the older designs we will in a minute you know I attempted to appease everybody here who said you can appease 80% of people 20% of time or something like that whatever you can't please everybody but I'm hoping you'll hear what Gus and Harold can bring to the table and really see some of the requests that we're going to be faced are just unreasonable with that said turn it over to Harold and Gus thank you we're back again greetings welcome for having us back thank you for tabling us and willing to listen to us and have this conversation I know we did send some information Andrea I don't know if he received it today was that given to the board members I do have copies of pass out if I need to what time did you send it over I'm not sure it was this evening if you have copies why don't you do have a letter that you did set but this came in like just very actually just a short while ago too so that's why you probably don't have a hard copy this kind of touches base with where Jim was going we can share two we can share a few okay

13. 15:00

    flow flow cleanly with the house if we go back to the older designs we will in a minute you know I attempted to appease everybody here who said you can appease 80% of people 20% of time or something like that whatever you can't please everybody but I'm hoping you'll hear what Gus and Harold can bring to the table and really see some of the requests that we're going to be faced are just unreasonable with that said turn it over to Harold and Gus thank you we're back again greetings welcome for having us back thank you for tabling us and willing to listen to us and have this conversation I know we did send some information Andrea I don't know if he received it today was that given to the board members I do have copies of pass out if I need to what time did you send it over I'm not sure it was this evening if you have copies why don't you do have a letter that you did set but this came in like just very actually just a short while ago too so that's why you probably don't have a hard copy this kind of touches base with where Jim was going we can share two we can share a few okay I don't need to have one yes we can also put on the doctor that was intentionally done that all right so So this kind of goes into what Jim was going off with, looking at it in a perspective, looking at it from a distance, we talked about what do we need to do to screen pretty much the lower half of this garage, because we agreed at the last meeting that we can contend that that lower half of the garage, because it's built within a wall, if it didn't have the garage door, it would be considered to be a retaining wall carrying the garage above. And in our conversations back then, we decided, well, let's go ahead and screen that lower half to our best ability. And what I provided in this diagram is coming from both neighbors. The upper image is coming from the neighbor, which is at 4234 Valley, or Shady Lane. If you want to throw that one in, that'll show what I just passed out to everybody, everybody in the audience can see. The intent of the ordinance is not to try and screen every development on everybody's property from every vantage point that's possible.

14. 16:15

    we can share two we can share a few okay I don't need to have one yes we can also put on the doctor that was intentionally done that all right so So this kind of goes into what Jim was going off with, looking at it in a perspective, looking at it from a distance, we talked about what do we need to do to screen pretty much the lower half of this garage, because we agreed at the last meeting that we can contend that that lower half of the garage, because it's built within a wall, if it didn't have the garage door, it would be considered to be a retaining wall carrying the garage above. And in our conversations back then, we decided, well, let's go ahead and screen that lower half to our best ability. And what I provided in this diagram is coming from both neighbors. The upper image is coming from the neighbor, which is at 4234 Valley, or Shady Lane. If you want to throw that one in, that'll show what I just passed out to everybody, everybody in the audience can see. The intent of the ordinance is not to try and screen every development on everybody's property from every vantage point that's possible. So the upper section kind of shows a couple of different vantage points from on the deck at the near furthest point out from the house on Shady Lane. On the ground at what appears to be like a little terrace area behind the one portion of it, and then almost adjacent to the property line. And when looking at where the structure is in relationship to the existing retaining wall, the existing retaining wall is already providing screening on that side of the. the lower portion, and that's shown in the sight lines coming off the eyeballs. That lady on that plan's drawn at five foot six tall, so her eyes are like five foot two. So we have that relationship to scale correctly. But in relationship to what's remaining, what you're seeing out of the remainder of that retaining wall or the lower portion of that building is only about a foot and a half of brick, and then the rest of it's siding from that point up. Which is nothing different than if this was an accessory structure built on a flat piece of property adjacent to a flat piece of property. But the fact that our residents or neighbors all around us, including ourselves, are looking into an 18 foot deep bowl changes the whole perspective of

15. 17:30

    The intent of the ordinance is not to try and screen every development on everybody's property from every vantage point that's possible. So the upper section kind of shows a couple of different vantage points from on the deck at the near furthest point out from the house on Shady Lane. On the ground at what appears to be like a little terrace area behind the one portion of it, and then almost adjacent to the property line. And when looking at where the structure is in relationship to the existing retaining wall, the existing retaining wall is already providing screening on that side of the. the lower portion, and that's shown in the sight lines coming off the eyeballs. That lady on that plan's drawn at five foot six tall, so her eyes are like five foot two. So we have that relationship to scale correctly. But in relationship to what's remaining, what you're seeing out of the remainder of that retaining wall or the lower portion of that building is only about a foot and a half of brick, and then the rest of it's siding from that point up. Which is nothing different than if this was an accessory structure built on a flat piece of property adjacent to a flat piece of property. But the fact that our residents or neighbors all around us, including ourselves, are looking into an 18 foot deep bowl changes the whole perspective of how we're looking at this structure. And the intent of the ordinance is not to provide a visual screen around everybody's property to hide this. It's to just basically meet the intent of the ordinance to provide screening in front of retaining walls or screening in front of accessory structures which are not used for motor vehicle and boat parking. So I want to make that clear because that is what the intent is for the upper portion of the garage. It is a garage to house motor vehicles and everything. So we're not here to talk about how do we screen the rest of that. The other diagram, which is at the bottom, is actually off of 4205 Valley Forge. And we showed a couple of different vantage points. So, it's a link to the link to the link to the description. one at grade uh standing down near the property line looking at the this the evergreen uh screen wall that we're proposing and you're not even seeing the brick the whole thing is shaded and the whole thing is covered with that we also have it from the furthest point out on their existing deck and with that said and you're looking down again like the other neighbor you're only seeing about 18 inches of the brick remaining um before you see the other structure and then i did this one to kind of be a little silly i put a person on the second floor looking out the window to kind

16. 18:45

    are looking into an 18 foot deep bowl changes the whole perspective of how we're looking at this structure. And the intent of the ordinance is not to provide a visual screen around everybody's property to hide this. It's to just basically meet the intent of the ordinance to provide screening in front of retaining walls or screening in front of accessory structures which are not used for motor vehicle and boat parking. So I want to make that clear because that is what the intent is for the upper portion of the garage. It is a garage to house motor vehicles and everything. So we're not here to talk about how do we screen the rest of that. The other diagram, which is at the bottom, is actually off of 4205 Valley Forge. And we showed a couple of different vantage points. So, it's a link to the link to the link to the description. one at grade uh standing down near the property line looking at the this the evergreen uh screen wall that we're proposing and you're not even seeing the brick the whole thing is shaded and the whole thing is covered with that we also have it from the furthest point out on their existing deck and with that said and you're looking down again like the other neighbor you're only seeing about 18 inches of the brick remaining um before you see the other structure and then i did this one to kind of be a little silly i put a person on the second floor looking out the window to kind of just prove that we can't screen that um and then also kind of sort of in some of our conversations we were having you know what do we need to do um again with you know do we plant evergreens at the property line well that's almost entirely totally impossible because the height of what those evergreens would have to be at the property line to screen the structure not to mention we can't we talked about this at the last meeting the extreme grade changes and drop-offs makes it very difficult to get equipment in there and then also from the views that you see in the upper right and the upper left hand corner we have some very mature hardwood trees that are in front of behind and on the opposites and along the property line to come in there and to put a screening wall at the property line which was one of the requests that came up at our neighborhood meeting would place harm to those deciduous trees because by the time we cut root balls to get a screen wall of evergreens in there to shield this we would be tearing up all the infrastructure of the existing roots of those hardwoods not to mention with it being shaded most of the time they're probably not going to grow very well and you also have an ordinance to for actually

17. 20:00

    one to kind of be a little silly i put a person on the second floor looking out the window to kind of just prove that we can't screen that um and then also kind of sort of in some of our conversations we were having you know what do we need to do um again with you know do we plant evergreens at the property line well that's almost entirely totally impossible because the height of what those evergreens would have to be at the property line to screen the structure not to mention we can't we talked about this at the last meeting the extreme grade changes and drop-offs makes it very difficult to get equipment in there and then also from the views that you see in the upper right and the upper left hand corner we have some very mature hardwood trees that are in front of behind and on the opposites and along the property line to come in there and to put a screening wall at the property line which was one of the requests that came up at our neighborhood meeting would place harm to those deciduous trees because by the time we cut root balls to get a screen wall of evergreens in there to shield this we would be tearing up all the infrastructure of the existing roots of those hardwoods not to mention with it being shaded most of the time they're probably not going to grow very well and you also have an ordinance to for actually preserve trees on your property and by going in there with heavy equipment and trying to plant these that wouldn't work so i think the solution that we had proposed that we had shared when we resubmitted uh and what we talked about here in the meeting which you said sounds good but we need a visual which now we provided um which was in the packet so if you want to go to your packet um takes care of that and meets the intent of the ordinance um i think you want to go to the new rendering it's there so with the landscape plan so we looked at we complied and we're putting in um arborvitaes along the north property line because again that is the public right of way and we have no control whether or not they're going to cut it down so we have no problem and we are complying with placing evergreen trees there now that gray goes from 12 feet below finish floor to at finish floor of the actual structure above do we need to put 12 foot trees along that entire side and hide the actual accessory structure probably not can they be you know staggered as they go down we can definitely probably look at doing something like that and i can let gus talk about that you

18. 21:15

    and you also have an ordinance to for actually preserve trees on your property and by going in there with heavy equipment and trying to plant these that wouldn't work so i think the solution that we had proposed that we had shared when we resubmitted uh and what we talked about here in the meeting which you said sounds good but we need a visual which now we provided um which was in the packet so if you want to go to your packet um takes care of that and meets the intent of the ordinance um i think you want to go to the new rendering it's there so with the landscape plan so we looked at we complied and we're putting in um arborvitaes along the north property line because again that is the public right of way and we have no control whether or not they're going to cut it down so we have no problem and we are complying with placing evergreen trees there now that gray goes from 12 feet below finish floor to at finish floor of the actual structure above do we need to put 12 foot trees along that entire side and hide the actual accessory structure probably not can they be you know staggered as they go down we can definitely probably look at doing something like that and i can let gus talk about that you as a landscape designer of what the aesthetics of what that would be. As for the lower area, what we looked at doing is creating a three-foot built-up berm, plus or minus, probably a little bit minus, and then level that grade out from that berm to the door, overhead door of the lower area of the garage, so that becomes level grade at that point. It is our intention to plant grass seed in that area or to do sod so it will not be paved. Again, we discussed that trying to get pavement and driveway in here would be ridiculous, so we decided to let's just sod that. There will be an apron in front of the door so that we don't have splashing up or anything. And then that allows us with that three-foot berm not to have to come in and spend seven to eight hundred dollars per arborvitae to put in a 12-foot tree. We can come in with a much lower tree, and Gus will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but we were looking at green giant arborvitaes, and green giant arborvitaes grow two to three feet per year. So we could plant a tree at eight feet or six feet on a three-foot berm, be nine feet up, and within one year, that would be up to 12 feet high, meeting the intent or the request that came from the board

19. 22:30

    as a landscape designer of what the aesthetics of what that would be. As for the lower area, what we looked at doing is creating a three-foot built-up berm, plus or minus, probably a little bit minus, and then level that grade out from that berm to the door, overhead door of the lower area of the garage, so that becomes level grade at that point. It is our intention to plant grass seed in that area or to do sod so it will not be paved. Again, we discussed that trying to get pavement and driveway in here would be ridiculous, so we decided to let's just sod that. There will be an apron in front of the door so that we don't have splashing up or anything. And then that allows us with that three-foot berm not to have to come in and spend seven to eight hundred dollars per arborvitae to put in a 12-foot tree. We can come in with a much lower tree, and Gus will correct me if I'm wrong on this, but we were looking at green giant arborvitaes, and green giant arborvitaes grow two to three feet per year. So we could plant a tree at eight feet or six feet on a three-foot berm, be nine feet up, and within one year, that would be up to 12 feet high, meeting the intent or the request that came from the board to try and screen that lower section of the garage. And that's what we intend on doing, and that's how we're looking at complying with the intent of the ordinance. And at that point, I will open it up for questions to the board. Thank you. Thank you. oh you can go show that yeah let's see what the there's a couple other pictures kind of show again the images of the stone and the images of the arborvitaes were photographs just to kind of go hey this is how it could look if it's pruned and maintained and manicured and then the bottom right hand was the actual rendering of showing where that curve would be and how that would be blocking that from view the other option item we didn't talk about was a retaining wall and I know I put this in an email to the board or to the planning commission that we are going to be excavating out quite a bit of soils while building this garage we will need to balance some of the site at that point we can balance across the back side of that retaining wall which goes from four feet to about five foot three so that it is four feet even across the back and we then meet the intent of the of the step and the height on that retaining wall questions uh just uh in let's go back to the landscape plan so those uh three large tree

20. 23:45

    meeting the intent or the request that came from the board to try and screen that lower section of the garage. And that's what we intend on doing, and that's how we're looking at complying with the intent of the ordinance. And at that point, I will open it up for questions to the board. Thank you. Thank you. oh you can go show that yeah let's see what the there's a couple other pictures kind of show again the images of the stone and the images of the arborvitaes were photographs just to kind of go hey this is how it could look if it's pruned and maintained and manicured and then the bottom right hand was the actual rendering of showing where that curve would be and how that would be blocking that from view the other option item we didn't talk about was a retaining wall and I know I put this in an email to the board or to the planning commission that we are going to be excavating out quite a bit of soils while building this garage we will need to balance some of the site at that point we can balance across the back side of that retaining wall which goes from four feet to about five foot three so that it is four feet even across the back and we then meet the intent of the of the step and the height on that retaining wall questions uh just uh in let's go back to the landscape plan so those uh three large tree those are existing trees no that and the very large deciduous trees to the north that is on the public right of way we're just showing to represent that those are existing again that was part of our conversation that the dpw can come and just cut those down so they're not doing us any good so that's why we're providing that low row of arborvitaes at the north of our garage to provide the screening and those are deciduous those are arborvitaes yes uh the trees are they're getting at the nothing deciduous the arborvitaes are not no no I know that I'm just talking about yeah those are yeah there's a mix of that's not part of your plan you're just showing that as yeah oh those are evergreens okay those are evergreens I'm sorry let's get up here everyone Gus hi guys so the 钓 three dark circles you see the larger ones those are Norway spruce the largest of the evergreen family then get 60 80 foot tall 20 to 30 foot wide the green giant are everybody's it shows them at four three to three foot wide and twelve foot high there if you were putting in 12 footers they're probably more like five foot wide and they go rapid leaves they're about 18 to 24 inches not 30 or 24 to 36 inches but sorry about that but it's all the time at the time of planting what will the height be

21. 25:00

    questions uh just uh in let's go back to the landscape plan so those uh three large tree those are existing trees no that and the very large deciduous trees to the north that is on the public right of way we're just showing to represent that those are existing again that was part of our conversation that the dpw can come and just cut those down so they're not doing us any good so that's why we're providing that low row of arborvitaes at the north of our garage to provide the screening and those are deciduous those are arborvitaes yes uh the trees are they're getting at the nothing deciduous the arborvitaes are not no no I know that I'm just talking about yeah those are yeah there's a mix of that's not part of your plan you're just showing that as yeah oh those are evergreens okay those are evergreens I'm sorry let's get up here everyone Gus hi guys so the 钓 three dark circles you see the larger ones those are Norway spruce the largest of the evergreen family then get 60 80 foot tall 20 to 30 foot wide the green giant are everybody's it shows them at four three to three foot wide and twelve foot high there if you were putting in 12 footers they're probably more like five foot wide and they go rapid leaves they're about 18 to 24 inches not 30 or 24 to 36 inches but sorry about that but it's all the time at the time of planting what will the height be of those well well they're hoping to plant a little with the berm they're hoping to plant something less than the 12 footers but if the 12 footers are required then we need to know exactly the height of those so again we can agree upon that today with the board and everything as to what you want to agree so we can come in and do a three-foot berm like I said with a six-foot tree giving us nine feet and within one year they will be at the height that we're looking at or we can come in with a three foot berm and put an eight foot in there and then that gives us to 11 feet and then within a year we'll be well over that so we can agree as to what the board would think would be acceptable but there's a huge difference in price yeah Yeah, the cost of them is, they're expensive. All right, any questions from the board? Gus, can you please give us your name and information since you're speaking on behalf of the applicant? My name is Gus Kukovic and I am a former, I'm the one who did the original landscape design. I no longer do that. The company is out of business and I now sell landscape supplies for rock bottom stone supply. But I've been in the industry for 37 years, so. So I do have one question. Okay. So it's actually more geared towards Andrea. Mm-hm. So we're supposed to be approving the retaining wall that's five feet.

22. 26:15

    to 36 inches but sorry about that but it's all the time at the time of planting what will the height be of those well well they're hoping to plant a little with the berm they're hoping to plant something less than the 12 footers but if the 12 footers are required then we need to know exactly the height of those so again we can agree upon that today with the board and everything as to what you want to agree so we can come in and do a three-foot berm like I said with a six-foot tree giving us nine feet and within one year they will be at the height that we're looking at or we can come in with a three foot berm and put an eight foot in there and then that gives us to 11 feet and then within a year we'll be well over that so we can agree as to what the board would think would be acceptable but there's a huge difference in price yeah Yeah, the cost of them is, they're expensive. All right, any questions from the board? Gus, can you please give us your name and information since you're speaking on behalf of the applicant? My name is Gus Kukovic and I am a former, I'm the one who did the original landscape design. I no longer do that. The company is out of business and I now sell landscape supplies for rock bottom stone supply. But I've been in the industry for 37 years, so. So I do have one question. Okay. So it's actually more geared towards Andrea. Mm-hm. So we're supposed to be approving the retaining wall that's five feet. So regardless if they do the land balancing, we still have to approve that even if it's upon land balancing, not five feet tall. Well, I think we should save the deliberation discussion retaining wall once we present on that, because I want to get ahead of it. But yeah, the presumption or the applicant is suggesting that based on the backfilling, they will now be fully in compliance with the requirements. So I think that that should be something that would be discussed when we actually get into the retaining wall. Unless it's something that helps you with your deliberation for the garage. I just. Yeah. But you're correct, the intention is that they are going to backfill to now have fully compliant retaining walls that do not need approval by the zoning board. Okay. Any other questions? Not yet. All right. I'd like to open this to the public. And, uh, who, that, hold up, hold up. Raise your hand. hands if you wish to speak on this item. Want to get an idea of how many people? Okay, so do you think you can organize yourself in an orderly manner and sort of give the next person... Okay, very good. Then proceed. Whoever wants to go first.

23. 27:30

    So we're supposed to be approving the retaining wall that's five feet. So regardless if they do the land balancing, we still have to approve that even if it's upon land balancing, not five feet tall. Well, I think we should save the deliberation discussion retaining wall once we present on that, because I want to get ahead of it. But yeah, the presumption or the applicant is suggesting that based on the backfilling, they will now be fully in compliance with the requirements. So I think that that should be something that would be discussed when we actually get into the retaining wall. Unless it's something that helps you with your deliberation for the garage. I just. Yeah. But you're correct, the intention is that they are going to backfill to now have fully compliant retaining walls that do not need approval by the zoning board. Okay. Any other questions? Not yet. All right. I'd like to open this to the public. And, uh, who, that, hold up, hold up. Raise your hand. hands if you wish to speak on this item. Want to get an idea of how many people? Okay, so do you think you can organize yourself in an orderly manner and sort of give the next person... Okay, very good. Then proceed. Whoever wants to go first. House in Foxcroft was built. That was well before Levittown ever was on the radar. So as a community, we've been around for a long time. Foxcroft, as many of you may know, is tree-lined. We have mixed architectural structures. We have a majority of two-story homes and having a 29-foot building in our subdivision, in my opinion, based on my experience of living here, doesn't quite fit. To give you an idea, 29 feet is somewhere between the height of Starbucks and the height of Lifetime Fitness. That's pretty big and to try to cover all that up, good luck. So the tallest structure in Foxcroft, beyond a shadow of a doubt.

24. 28:45

    give the next person... Okay, very good. Then proceed. Whoever wants to go first. House in Foxcroft was built. That was well before Levittown ever was on the radar. So as a community, we've been around for a long time. Foxcroft, as many of you may know, is tree-lined. We have mixed architectural structures. We have a majority of two-story homes and having a 29-foot building in our subdivision, in my opinion, based on my experience of living here, doesn't quite fit. To give you an idea, 29 feet is somewhere between the height of Starbucks and the height of Lifetime Fitness. That's pretty big and to try to cover all that up, good luck. So the tallest structure in Foxcroft, beyond a shadow of a doubt. It doesn't fit with the historical component of our community, and it doesn't fit with the architecture in our community. With that, I thank you for your consideration. Thank you. Hi, my name is Joanne Friday. I live at 4205 Valley Forge, so thank you for hearing us. Okay, this time I'm going to have glasses so I can actually read. I wanted to start with, I rewatched the January 13th board meeting and would like to just clarify a couple points that Mr. Trent Acosta and the architect made in their rebuttal that we have concerns with. They shared a Google image back then, and actually I think it was the same one that they shared tonight, and that was taken in the summer. The trees that they're showing, I'm going to show you what it looks like for this year. They don't have any leaf coverage. None of them are evergreens. They are also very mature, and they are way above the house lines, so they do not provide any coverage at all.

25. 30:00

    It doesn't fit with the historical component of our community, and it doesn't fit with the architecture in our community. With that, I thank you for your consideration. Thank you. Hi, my name is Joanne Friday. I live at 4205 Valley Forge, so thank you for hearing us. Okay, this time I'm going to have glasses so I can actually read. I wanted to start with, I rewatched the January 13th board meeting and would like to just clarify a couple points that Mr. Trent Acosta and the architect made in their rebuttal that we have concerns with. They shared a Google image back then, and actually I think it was the same one that they shared tonight, and that was taken in the summer. The trees that they're showing, I'm going to show you what it looks like for this year. They don't have any leaf coverage. None of them are evergreens. They are also very mature, and they are way above the house lines, so they do not provide any coverage at all. Number two, the city was told that the existing walls for the retaining walls are repair and replacement. That's what was said, and that's also not true. Number two. It's new construction. It's new construction, and we can. show that and a Google image when they took down some of the trees and as far as getting big equipment in there they didn't struggle with big equipment when they put in those walls the architect also told the board the height of the walls was to permit was you know verified it as well as Jim said he had remeasured and it met code and again not true the city came out and measured their five feet or five three and four feet the zoning board ended by tabling the appeal and we really appreciate that regardless what happens we feel like you're listening and we appreciate that and they encouraged them to meet with us and determine of compromise we did have that meeting two weeks ago Thursday but we still have some concerns that were not addressed we believe that the goal was for us to emulate what the other appeals were doing which was to try to work together and compromise and unfortunately we don't feel that was met one we're

26. 31:15

    Number two, the city was told that the existing walls for the retaining walls are repair and replacement. That's what was said, and that's also not true. Number two. It's new construction. It's new construction, and we can. show that and a Google image when they took down some of the trees and as far as getting big equipment in there they didn't struggle with big equipment when they put in those walls the architect also told the board the height of the walls was to permit was you know verified it as well as Jim said he had remeasured and it met code and again not true the city came out and measured their five feet or five three and four feet the zoning board ended by tabling the appeal and we really appreciate that regardless what happens we feel like you're listening and we appreciate that and they encouraged them to meet with us and determine of compromise we did have that meeting two weeks ago Thursday but we still have some concerns that were not addressed we believe that the goal was for us to emulate what the other appeals were doing which was to try to work together and compromise and unfortunately we don't feel that was met one we're going to show you I think that was already shown there are pictures of those ten foot hedges this was presented to us please note that now we are adding more racks to have more racks back there then we already have those two walls and they're using that to try to mask the height they also the renditions that they showed they're not even the same so we're still not clear what it's to look like we wondered why those renderings were shown to us when it's not firm when it's not specific and we kind of felt that was one of the purposes that you wanted us to do at the meeting an unmet number two please note how deceiving this picture is it's presented on an angle no it's presented on an angle that would be taken if you were laying down or kneeling in front of this hedge that creates the illusion of height so that you only see the top of the garage you need to be the height of a dog frankly very close to those shrubs for this to be an accurate representation they selectively only

27. 32:30

    together and compromise and unfortunately we don't feel that was met one we're going to show you I think that was already shown there are pictures of those ten foot hedges this was presented to us please note that now we are adding more racks to have more racks back there then we already have those two walls and they're using that to try to mask the height they also the renditions that they showed they're not even the same so we're still not clear what it's to look like we wondered why those renderings were shown to us when it's not firm when it's not specific and we kind of felt that was one of the purposes that you wanted us to do at the meeting an unmet number two please note how deceiving this picture is it's presented on an angle no it's presented on an angle that would be taken if you were laying down or kneeling in front of this hedge that creates the illusion of height so that you only see the top of the garage you need to be the height of a dog frankly very close to those shrubs for this to be an accurate representation they selectively only presented views that truly ignore our view three we also questioned the position of the proposed hedge since our property line is the same elevation as the ravine and our house is actually on the hill a little bit higher than the tragic costas a 12-foot screen shrub will not screen really anything of the garage tower from our house at all this view would only be if we were sitting at the bottom of the ravine which we don't usually sit at the bottom of our ravine and would not help the south side neighbors at all they said they went to the city and spoke with Andrea I spoke with Andrea and that this is what they were told this is what they said so I'm not quoting Andrea I spoke with Andrea last money and she confirmed though that the city wants the neighboring residents plural happy for I'm stood at the bottom of my ravine so you don't have to see a rendition which is higher than their background backyard where the shrub hedge is being suggested okay I have to be

28. 33:45

    those shrubs for this to be an accurate representation they selectively only presented views that truly ignore our view three we also questioned the position of the proposed hedge since our property line is the same elevation as the ravine and our house is actually on the hill a little bit higher than the tragic costas a 12-foot screen shrub will not screen really anything of the garage tower from our house at all this view would only be if we were sitting at the bottom of the ravine which we don't usually sit at the bottom of our ravine and would not help the south side neighbors at all they said they went to the city and spoke with Andrea I spoke with Andrea and that this is what they were told this is what they said so I'm not quoting Andrea I spoke with Andrea last money and she confirmed though that the city wants the neighboring residents plural happy for I'm stood at the bottom of my ravine so you don't have to see a rendition which is higher than their background backyard where the shrub hedge is being suggested okay I have to be honest even even if they do put in 18 to 20 foot trees I'm very nervous about what protections and assurances we can have because of how this is all been unfolding they clearly want to do what they want to do and they clearly want to to have a 12-foot when it's a three-story isn't really accomplishing much of anything they said the last company didn't pull the permits because they didn't have to then later they said they didn't pull the permits because the company went out of business all permits have to be posted in windows and it seems like the owners should have known that and noticed that that was missing five you test them with lessening the visual impact I think one of the terms was it looks like a lifeguard house this was not achieved Jim said that the board that he would put in pine trees or something or something at the board meeting but only offered a 10-foot arborvitae on two more feet of stones which none of that is

29. 35:00

    background backyard where the shrub hedge is being suggested okay I have to be honest even even if they do put in 18 to 20 foot trees I'm very nervous about what protections and assurances we can have because of how this is all been unfolding they clearly want to do what they want to do and they clearly want to to have a 12-foot when it's a three-story isn't really accomplishing much of anything they said the last company didn't pull the permits because they didn't have to then later they said they didn't pull the permits because the company went out of business all permits have to be posted in windows and it seems like the owners should have known that and noticed that that was missing five you test them with lessening the visual impact I think one of the terms was it looks like a lifeguard house this was not achieved Jim said that the board that he would put in pine trees or something or something at the board meeting but only offered a 10-foot arborvitae on two more feet of stones which none of that is gonna help our house views we asked for lack of a better term Christmas trees sorry if that I'm not trying to offend anyone not shrubs and that if like 18 to 20-foot tall trees would could be planted and they said we don't have to as well as Jim saying it's too expensive and he can do what he wants on his property again no discussion or suggestions were listened to from the south side neighbors six we are unclear where the structure is exactly from the distance of the road Jim said at the meeting when they were standing in the driveway that it's 16 feet and he measured it out kind of you know how you can step 16 feet but again if that's so close to the road and that doesn't sound like the distance that was presented before so before the meeting so that's about the tower before the meeting ended we brought up the retaining walls because they had not said anything about those we asked about to have our varieties planted at the five-foot wall that could be 12 because then it would hide both walls

30. 36:15

    offered a 10-foot arborvitae on two more feet of stones which none of that is gonna help our house views we asked for lack of a better term Christmas trees sorry if that I'm not trying to offend anyone not shrubs and that if like 18 to 20-foot tall trees would could be planted and they said we don't have to as well as Jim saying it's too expensive and he can do what he wants on his property again no discussion or suggestions were listened to from the south side neighbors six we are unclear where the structure is exactly from the distance of the road Jim said at the meeting when they were standing in the driveway that it's 16 feet and he measured it out kind of you know how you can step 16 feet but again if that's so close to the road and that doesn't sound like the distance that was presented before so before the meeting so that's about the tower before the meeting ended we brought up the retaining walls because they had not said anything about those we asked about to have our varieties planted at the five-foot wall that could be 12 because then it would hide both walls better yet to put a row at ground level and a second row at the second tier we also asked that they be planted on the south side the response was that the city said they only have to take one foot of dirt and put it in front of the lower five-foot wall again they share this is what the city told them they also said they don't have to do anything for the south side neighbors however when I checked with the city because it is now a variance appeal we can ask for landscape I don't think they're gonna be taking it down but we can ask for landscape screening that could include and as the letter that you sent us that the screening should be for all adjacent neighbors not just one again we reiterated this in the meeting multiple times and it fell on deaf ears unfortunately no compromises were reached I'm sorry but as they shared they felt they needed to meet with us and they met the city's expectation by meeting with us this attitude of constantly doing the bare minimum is very alarming the deck went in with oversights because they didn't tell the truth we asked to meet but no solutions and only the ones presented at the January meeting were even

31. 37:30

    better yet to put a row at ground level and a second row at the second tier we also asked that they be planted on the south side the response was that the city said they only have to take one foot of dirt and put it in front of the lower five-foot wall again they share this is what the city told them they also said they don't have to do anything for the south side neighbors however when I checked with the city because it is now a variance appeal we can ask for landscape I don't think they're gonna be taking it down but we can ask for landscape screening that could include and as the letter that you sent us that the screening should be for all adjacent neighbors not just one again we reiterated this in the meeting multiple times and it fell on deaf ears unfortunately no compromises were reached I'm sorry but as they shared they felt they needed to meet with us and they met the city's expectation by meeting with us this attitude of constantly doing the bare minimum is very alarming the deck went in with oversights because they didn't tell the truth we asked to meet but no solutions and only the ones presented at the January meeting were even offered several questions still exist but due to the tone of the meeting we felt it would not be taken seriously and would not be resolved one is the environmental impact in addition to looking at the garage tower it's important to consider the ravine there and water rain management issues it is a deep ravine and directly across the street is a pond marsh our ravine can become marshy i don't know if that's a word can become marsh like at times how will the ravine runoff be addressed as the flood with this structure again please look at the pictures of the shrub and location how those shrubs are how those shrubs are lined does nothing to show the view from our deck i took pictures from my deck so i can show you exactly what it will look like it does not do anything to shield the tower from our deck um lastly we know this is a civil engineering project with lots of beams and concrete in order

32. 38:45

    but no solutions and only the ones presented at the January meeting were even offered several questions still exist but due to the tone of the meeting we felt it would not be taken seriously and would not be resolved one is the environmental impact in addition to looking at the garage tower it's important to consider the ravine there and water rain management issues it is a deep ravine and directly across the street is a pond marsh our ravine can become marshy i don't know if that's a word can become marsh like at times how will the ravine runoff be addressed as the flood with this structure again please look at the pictures of the shrub and location how those shrubs are how those shrubs are lined does nothing to show the view from our deck i took pictures from my deck so i can show you exactly what it will look like it does not do anything to shield the tower from our deck um lastly we know this is a civil engineering project with lots of beams and concrete in order to hold up the building and plant a car and all of that we're very concerned about it how it's going to be monitored so we wonder with all the mistakes that have been presented before and tonight how many more they are not sharing and how are we supposed to be building trust thank you thank you very much hello and thank you for hearing us again for the second time my name is michelle my husband my husband my husband my husband my husband my husband Thank you. street is our vienna today we live on 4234 sandy lane and we our home is positioned south of the trench of castas exhibit eight which my husband will be showing is actually the view from our kitchen my husband and i attended the landscape review at the trentacostas on thursday march 26th we were extremely surprised to learn the plans did not include our view while reviewing the plans i asked several times what type of screening is planned for our view and the response from jim and harold was the city and andrea said we don't have to do anything i replied i think the city is expecting something to be presented regarding our view no response they just moved on i did ask us

33. 40:00

    um lastly we know this is a civil engineering project with lots of beams and concrete in order to hold up the building and plant a car and all of that we're very concerned about it how it's going to be monitored so we wonder with all the mistakes that have been presented before and tonight how many more they are not sharing and how are we supposed to be building trust thank you thank you very much hello and thank you for hearing us again for the second time my name is michelle my husband my husband my husband my husband my husband my husband Thank you. street is our vienna today we live on 4234 sandy lane and we our home is positioned south of the trench of castas exhibit eight which my husband will be showing is actually the view from our kitchen my husband and i attended the landscape review at the trentacostas on thursday march 26th we were extremely surprised to learn the plans did not include our view while reviewing the plans i asked several times what type of screening is planned for our view and the response from jim and harold was the city and andrea said we don't have to do anything i replied i think the city is expecting something to be presented regarding our view no response they just moved on i did ask us senior landscape designer and his response was you'll see everything and that our view was never part of the plan the last comment jim trinacosta said to me concerns me this is my property i can do whatever i want the january 13th zoning meeting tabled this variance request to encourage the trinacostas to meet with the neighbors to determine a compromise doing absolutely nothing for 4234 sandy lane view is not a compromise we are now standing in front of this board not only for the concerns of garage tower but an additional variance that was also added the two existing retaining walls that is against code not pulling a permit for these returning walls was discussed on january 13th where herald the architect and jim trinacosta told all of you here the board that they verified the height of both walls is four feet the city then came back to measure one wall was five feet and one

34. 41:15

    expecting something to be presented regarding our view no response they just moved on i did ask us senior landscape designer and his response was you'll see everything and that our view was never part of the plan the last comment jim trinacosta said to me concerns me this is my property i can do whatever i want the january 13th zoning meeting tabled this variance request to encourage the trinacostas to meet with the neighbors to determine a compromise doing absolutely nothing for 4234 sandy lane view is not a compromise we are now standing in front of this board not only for the concerns of garage tower but an additional variance that was also added the two existing retaining walls that is against code not pulling a permit for these returning walls was discussed on january 13th where herald the architect and jim trinacosta told all of you here the board that they verified the height of both walls is four feet the city then came back to measure one wall was five feet and one was four feet as i mentioned during the january meeting the city cannot go on good faith what will the place what will be in place as a remedy when he violates the law or bylaws what will deter him from violating what rules are not followed what are the corrective measures we ask these questions so let's talk views um exhibit nine this is the view of the ravine ravine east to west from crabtree lane to the end of sandy lane as you can see beautiful foliage trees beautiful now when we talk about how he's beautifying his area his view stays the same nothing changes you It's the view of the beautiful ravine. Let's keep Trinacosta's views in view. Our view, which is exhibit 11, the view of the ravine is a key reason why the Fridays and us streets bought in Foxcraft.

35. 42:30

    height of both walls is four feet the city then came back to measure one wall was five feet and one was four feet as i mentioned during the january meeting the city cannot go on good faith what will the place what will be in place as a remedy when he violates the law or bylaws what will deter him from violating what rules are not followed what are the corrective measures we ask these questions so let's talk views um exhibit nine this is the view of the ravine ravine east to west from crabtree lane to the end of sandy lane as you can see beautiful foliage trees beautiful now when we talk about how he's beautifying his area his view stays the same nothing changes you It's the view of the beautiful ravine. Let's keep Trinacosta's views in view. Our view, which is exhibit 11, the view of the ravine is a key reason why the Fridays and us streets bought in Foxcraft. It is now not the same. So much rough stonework and removal of trees is taking away the charm of Foxcraft. We get to exhibit 12. This is a signed petition from our neighbors, 95 signatures, and we're just starting. The petition reads, as concerned residents of the Foxcraft subdivision, we oppose the construction of a new third-car garage that is under consideration at 4246 Sandy Lane in Bloomfield Hills. It is our belief that the structure will greatly detract from the overall character and uniqueness of our neighborhood and affect its overall appeal that makes it so valued. We did share the photos of the new proposed design with the neighbors while gathering signatures. I'd like to share some of their comments. Number one, the structure will create a large blind spot concerned about safety. Number two, does not belong in the sub. Too stark from view. This is theroll major blacks elevation affected by air вечہ.

36. 43:45

    why the Fridays and us streets bought in Foxcraft. It is now not the same. So much rough stonework and removal of trees is taking away the charm of Foxcraft. We get to exhibit 12. This is a signed petition from our neighbors, 95 signatures, and we're just starting. The petition reads, as concerned residents of the Foxcraft subdivision, we oppose the construction of a new third-car garage that is under consideration at 4246 Sandy Lane in Bloomfield Hills. It is our belief that the structure will greatly detract from the overall character and uniqueness of our neighborhood and affect its overall appeal that makes it so valued. We did share the photos of the new proposed design with the neighbors while gathering signatures. I'd like to share some of their comments. Number one, the structure will create a large blind spot concerned about safety. Number two, does not belong in the sub. Too stark from view. This is theroll major blacks elevation affected by air вечہ. coming down valley forge no way to match the neighborhood number three no other garages on sandy lane are exposed this would be the only one number four cars are ready in circular driveway now just park another car there number five they already cut down trees already added a moat what when is it enough hate the additional walls oh number six hate the additional walls too much stone and now wants to add more and a garage tower number seven totally changing the view coming into the neighborhood from wing lake now we would see a garage did you tell them that you weren't happy as this one petitioner or one of our neighbors was walking around person said yes and they replied that's not what good neighbors do number nine move to novi they have more land and no trees number ten we couldn't get a variance I think we have a pretty clear picture of the objections which are similar to the ones that were voiced at the first hearing so is there anything new that

37. 45:00

    coming down valley forge no way to match the neighborhood number three no other garages on sandy lane are exposed this would be the only one number four cars are ready in circular driveway now just park another car there number five they already cut down trees already added a moat what when is it enough hate the additional walls oh number six hate the additional walls too much stone and now wants to add more and a garage tower number seven totally changing the view coming into the neighborhood from wing lake now we would see a garage did you tell them that you weren't happy as this one petitioner or one of our neighbors was walking around person said yes and they replied that's not what good neighbors do number nine move to novi they have more land and no trees number ten we couldn't get a variance I think we have a pretty clear picture of the objections which are similar to the ones that were voiced at the first hearing so is there anything new that you'd like to add the only thing that I'd like to add is that there are multiple neighbors thanking us for our continued support for the beauty and character of this neighborhood thank you okay um thank you for all those comments and and the pictures and the prep preparation that you put in. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak on this? All right, I'll close the public hearing and let the applicant respond. I'd like to thank them for doing their homework and showing what they have and presenting to you. So that was nice. Couple of things I think we're taking out of content. I don't think we need to get into stone throwing or pointing fingers or anything along those lines. Well, so let's, why don't we talk? It's kind of hard, I mean, I don't have a list of what each one of those items were. Right, so the request is, you need to sort of soften the visual impact. So why don't we talk specifically now about the height of the screening and then maybe there was an objection to sort of this base that's being put in with stone. So, I'm at words, I lost the words here. Come on up here, guys. As for the stone boulders around that berm,

38. 46:15

    which are similar to the ones that were voiced at the first hearing so is there anything new that you'd like to add the only thing that I'd like to add is that there are multiple neighbors thanking us for our continued support for the beauty and character of this neighborhood thank you okay um thank you for all those comments and and the pictures and the prep preparation that you put in. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak on this? All right, I'll close the public hearing and let the applicant respond. I'd like to thank them for doing their homework and showing what they have and presenting to you. So that was nice. Couple of things I think we're taking out of content. I don't think we need to get into stone throwing or pointing fingers or anything along those lines. Well, so let's, why don't we talk? It's kind of hard, I mean, I don't have a list of what each one of those items were. Right, so the request is, you need to sort of soften the visual impact. So why don't we talk specifically now about the height of the screening and then maybe there was an objection to sort of this base that's being put in with stone. So, I'm at words, I lost the words here. Come on up here, guys. As for the stone boulders around that berm, if they don't like that, fine, we can make that go away. That's just a three-on-one slope. You guys are familiar with all of that. That's a simple thing. Now, again, Harold can come to this. The height of that garage door is what? Eight foot? Seven foot. Seven foot. You put a three-foot berm and a 12-foot plant, that's 15 foot, so for her to say that it's not going to screen that lower portion, that's not true at all. She had to be on the roof of her house to be able to look over that, I would think. just guessing second floor at the minimum again those plants grow 18 to 24 inches a year within a matter of three four years just even more screening so as for michelle and jeff's side there was nothing that was discussed but i would think that jim would you know he wants to get along with the neighbors got to put a few plants on you know for them to screen on their side i'll talk about that he also said he'll talk about that there are some untruths that were said by these folks that i said and i wish i had a list of those that i could comment on but i don't have that so i just i don't like people putting words in my mouth and that's just not fair yeah so again we i think we have a sense of what the neighborhood's objecting to the the quotes just you know repeat

39. 47:30

    As for the stone boulders around that berm, if they don't like that, fine, we can make that go away. That's just a three-on-one slope. You guys are familiar with all of that. That's a simple thing. Now, again, Harold can come to this. The height of that garage door is what? Eight foot? Seven foot. Seven foot. You put a three-foot berm and a 12-foot plant, that's 15 foot, so for her to say that it's not going to screen that lower portion, that's not true at all. She had to be on the roof of her house to be able to look over that, I would think. just guessing second floor at the minimum again those plants grow 18 to 24 inches a year within a matter of three four years just even more screening so as for michelle and jeff's side there was nothing that was discussed but i would think that jim would you know he wants to get along with the neighbors got to put a few plants on you know for them to screen on their side i'll talk about that he also said he'll talk about that there are some untruths that were said by these folks that i said and i wish i had a list of those that i could comment on but i don't have that so i just i don't like people putting words in my mouth and that's just not fair yeah so again we i think we have a sense of what the neighborhood's objecting to the the quotes just you know repeat you know the the general themes we get so we get the picture on that correct yeah so in regards to the retaining wall like i said you know the the stones that we propose there actually match the stones that are already at the base of the uh the ravine coming off of valley forge so again it's not a change of material it's just adding the same material that's around there that berms up three feet the grade between the garage and that berms we're being raised as well we're proposing you know last time you asked me how high was the brick on the back of the garage on that back wall i said it was approximately 12 feet you said can we screen it with 12 feet i said yes so if we come in as we're proposing with a three-foot berm a nine foot tree that puts us right at the 12 feet is what we discussed that is shielding the view completely their comment about you have to be a dog and lying on the ground to see this and that's how it's going to look like that was a rendering to show you what that wall would look like that wall was taken on you know that rendering was taken off of jim's property but the cross sections that i presented and provide you with as you can see with the sight lines those evergreens that we're planning on prepare planting there are screening that lower half so

40. 48:45

    we i think we have a sense of what the neighborhood's objecting to the the quotes just you know repeat you know the the general themes we get so we get the picture on that correct yeah so in regards to the retaining wall like i said you know the the stones that we propose there actually match the stones that are already at the base of the uh the ravine coming off of valley forge so again it's not a change of material it's just adding the same material that's around there that berms up three feet the grade between the garage and that berms we're being raised as well we're proposing you know last time you asked me how high was the brick on the back of the garage on that back wall i said it was approximately 12 feet you said can we screen it with 12 feet i said yes so if we come in as we're proposing with a three-foot berm a nine foot tree that puts us right at the 12 feet is what we discussed that is shielding the view completely their comment about you have to be a dog and lying on the ground to see this and that's how it's going to look like that was a rendering to show you what that wall would look like that wall was taken on you know that rendering was taken off of jim's property but the cross sections that i presented and provide you with as you can see with the sight lines those evergreens that we're planning on prepare planting there are screening that lower half so the statement that what we're providing and what we're proposing will never shield this garage is totally not true i mean it doesn't work that way i don't know what images they showed because they never showed it to the public it would have been nice if they turned around and also shared it with the public so i can't comment on what the images were shown on there um i would like to say a couple of things that were false statements the building is 16 feet from the road that is incorrect we have received sign off from the association board and their architectural uh reviewer robert coulter he was on site with me when we ran tape measures we meet the deed restrictions of 30 feet from the edge of the road we are over 30 feet from the edge of sandy lane and we're like 30 feet and some change off of valley forge so we meet the intent of that or that deed restriction um so the the comment that we're going to be 16 feet and creating a blind spot you is not even the case i mean you can see right from this image here on how far that curve is away from that garage the the trees that are in the public right away are going to actually provide more blind spot than with that new garage a new structure whatever it be um the comment about we

41. 50:00

    those evergreens that we're planning on prepare planting there are screening that lower half so the statement that what we're providing and what we're proposing will never shield this garage is totally not true i mean it doesn't work that way i don't know what images they showed because they never showed it to the public it would have been nice if they turned around and also shared it with the public so i can't comment on what the images were shown on there um i would like to say a couple of things that were false statements the building is 16 feet from the road that is incorrect we have received sign off from the association board and their architectural uh reviewer robert coulter he was on site with me when we ran tape measures we meet the deed restrictions of 30 feet from the edge of the road we are over 30 feet from the edge of sandy lane and we're like 30 feet and some change off of valley forge so we meet the intent of that or that deed restriction um so the the comment that we're going to be 16 feet and creating a blind spot you is not even the case i mean you can see right from this image here on how far that curve is away from that garage the the trees that are in the public right away are going to actually provide more blind spot than with that new garage a new structure whatever it be um the comment about we are saying that on the south side we did not need to provide any our varieties or any green screen or anything on that i think why in our previous meeting the board did not say we like to see some green planting on that side is we have a retaining wall that has boxwoods on top of it and again in the cross section that i showed you that is already one providing screening on that side and two as i described with the change in grade and the severity of the change in grade currently right now is riffraff there to break down and slow down the water coming off that and to reduce any type of erosion putting plant materials such as evergreens or trees will that soil will road out from underneath them and those bushes or those trees will be falling over and so we need to maintain an area in which we can have proper water course which is following what it's currently already doing so again to the comment about how we need to have engineering in this we got to worry about storm water management or water management and impact we're not changing the water course we're keeping it where it's going already and that's shown up in the previous presentation and where we had

42. 51:15

    more blind spot than with that new garage a new structure whatever it be um the comment about we are saying that on the south side we did not need to provide any our varieties or any green screen or anything on that i think why in our previous meeting the board did not say we like to see some green planting on that side is we have a retaining wall that has boxwoods on top of it and again in the cross section that i showed you that is already one providing screening on that side and two as i described with the change in grade and the severity of the change in grade currently right now is riffraff there to break down and slow down the water coming off that and to reduce any type of erosion putting plant materials such as evergreens or trees will that soil will road out from underneath them and those bushes or those trees will be falling over and so we need to maintain an area in which we can have proper water course which is following what it's currently already doing so again to the comment about how we need to have engineering in this we got to worry about storm water management or water management and impact we're not changing the water course we're keeping it where it's going already and that's shown up in the previous presentation and where we had shown the riffraff coming down between the retaining wall and the garage. And if you recall, the breezeway is a bridge to allow that water to flow underneath it, and that is what we propose. So again, how are we changing the water going into that rear yard? We're not. It's maintained and it's being directed to the same location where it's currently directed coming off of Sandy Lane, which is higher than the driveway, and Valley Forge, which is higher than the driveway. So that, again, I think we need to take that in consideration. This is a civil engineering project. It is not a civil engineering project. About monitoring, you have a building apartment. I'm very confident that your building officials know what they're doing. They know how to read plans that are going to be submitted to them, which are going to be prepared by us and our structural engineer. And they will be going out there inspecting this project as it's being constructed. Twice there was a comment about no permit was for the retaining walls. In the original design, Gus will sit there and buy on this. Those retaining walls were designed to be four feet above grade. We are well over eight foot setback to the next one four feet above grade, which you said in the board in the last meeting that permits were not required and

43. 52:30

    shown the riffraff coming down between the retaining wall and the garage. And if you recall, the breezeway is a bridge to allow that water to flow underneath it, and that is what we propose. So again, how are we changing the water going into that rear yard? We're not. It's maintained and it's being directed to the same location where it's currently directed coming off of Sandy Lane, which is higher than the driveway, and Valley Forge, which is higher than the driveway. So that, again, I think we need to take that in consideration. This is a civil engineering project. It is not a civil engineering project. About monitoring, you have a building apartment. I'm very confident that your building officials know what they're doing. They know how to read plans that are going to be submitted to them, which are going to be prepared by us and our structural engineer. And they will be going out there inspecting this project as it's being constructed. Twice there was a comment about no permit was for the retaining walls. In the original design, Gus will sit there and buy on this. Those retaining walls were designed to be four feet above grade. We are well over eight foot setback to the next one four feet above grade, which you said in the board in the last meeting that permits were not required and those retaining walls were not required to come before you as a board. So their comment that we needed to pull permits is false and incorrect. So I want to make that perfectly clear that that is not the case there. At the end. either um more rocks to max the height i think we already addressed that with gus's comments at a three to one we don't need to have any boulders there it could just be lawn and we can alleviate that as an issue um i i do like the comment that this is a 29-foot building and there's no 29-foot buildings at all within foxcroft i'd like to um kind of look at some of your two-story colonials that are in that neighborhood and kind of make argument about that that there might be some and again this structure is not 29 feet it is 29 feet due to the extreme grade changes on this property on the roadside this is a standard garage which is actually lower than the existing attached garage on the house it's currently on and it is just the back side at the very lowest point it's 29 feet but that grade slopes up and then we are back to a standard size garage so it is not a 25 or 29

44. 53:45

    which you said in the board in the last meeting that permits were not required and those retaining walls were not required to come before you as a board. So their comment that we needed to pull permits is false and incorrect. So I want to make that perfectly clear that that is not the case there. At the end. either um more rocks to max the height i think we already addressed that with gus's comments at a three to one we don't need to have any boulders there it could just be lawn and we can alleviate that as an issue um i i do like the comment that this is a 29-foot building and there's no 29-foot buildings at all within foxcroft i'd like to um kind of look at some of your two-story colonials that are in that neighborhood and kind of make argument about that that there might be some and again this structure is not 29 feet it is 29 feet due to the extreme grade changes on this property on the roadside this is a standard garage which is actually lower than the existing attached garage on the house it's currently on and it is just the back side at the very lowest point it's 29 feet but that grade slopes up and then we are back to a standard size garage so it is not a 25 or 29 foot tower i can see if this was a flat piece of land and we built a 29 foot tall garage on there why people would be upset this is not a flat piece of land we have no control over the grade um the the one one comment which i would like the board to comment on or to make comment on the property owner has a right to use their property within the restrictions of these owning ordinance to restrict them would be not giving them the same privileges that other neighbors are allowed to have or other properties are allowed to have so i think where that comment came from where jim said i can do whatever i want with my property was we asked or sorry not we jim asked robert coulter is there any restrictions deed restrictions for me to remove burrs and poison ivy from the underbrush under in the wooded areas because my dog goes out in the yard and comes in with burrs and with poison ivy on them that was the question the comment that returned was oh now you're going to dig up your yard and jim said it's my yard i can do whatever i want on it he was just looking on cleaning up the underbrush so i'm just going to just clarify that but you know what you can

45. 55:00

    feet but that grade slopes up and then we are back to a standard size garage so it is not a 25 or 29 foot tower i can see if this was a flat piece of land and we built a 29 foot tall garage on there why people would be upset this is not a flat piece of land we have no control over the grade um the the one one comment which i would like the board to comment on or to make comment on the property owner has a right to use their property within the restrictions of these owning ordinance to restrict them would be not giving them the same privileges that other neighbors are allowed to have or other properties are allowed to have so i think where that comment came from where jim said i can do whatever i want with my property was we asked or sorry not we jim asked robert coulter is there any restrictions deed restrictions for me to remove burrs and poison ivy from the underbrush under in the wooded areas because my dog goes out in the yard and comes in with burrs and with poison ivy on them that was the question the comment that returned was oh now you're going to dig up your yard and jim said it's my yard i can do whatever i want on it he was just looking on cleaning up the underbrush so i'm just going to just clarify that but you know what you can strike that from the record things are being taken out of content to some degree content so i'd say could you uh wrap up a bit here i am i'm just i want to see if there's any other questions no i'm good to answer i'd be interested to see other questions to the board any other questions okay yep anybody else want to go first no no kick kicks off chris so um i'm well so um you are true in terms of the intent of our ordinance regarding um accessory structures for motor vehicles and boats do not need to have screening correct that's what the ordinance says and if this was on a flat surface we technically won't be talking about the screening but you're also five or six feet from the property line right because that's an easement how many feet are you from the easement that's not an easement no so on the i mean from the public right away yes so from the public right away i think we're probably about five and a half i don't have the plans up in front of me talked about that like that's a different ask but i think we need to talk to andrea because dimensional setback was not a requirement for this variance that that did not come up because it is because it's an accessory structure which is

46. 56:15

    on cleaning up the underbrush so i'm just going to just clarify that but you know what you can strike that from the record things are being taken out of content to some degree content so i'd say could you uh wrap up a bit here i am i'm just i want to see if there's any other questions no i'm good to answer i'd be interested to see other questions to the board any other questions okay yep anybody else want to go first no no kick kicks off chris so um i'm well so um you are true in terms of the intent of our ordinance regarding um accessory structures for motor vehicles and boats do not need to have screening correct that's what the ordinance says and if this was on a flat surface we technically won't be talking about the screening but you're also five or six feet from the property line right because that's an easement how many feet are you from the easement that's not an easement no so on the i mean from the public right away yes so from the public right away i think we're probably about five and a half i don't have the plans up in front of me talked about that like that's a different ask but i think we need to talk to andrea because dimensional setback was not a requirement for this variance that that did not come up because it is because it's an accessory structure which is not supposed to be in the front yard setback and because of the shape and uh location of this uh extreme grade changes and everything this was the best possible location for this structure i'd like to speak i've heard my name a lot um no it's fine it's totally fine i i there's nothing that's been i did but i just wanted to confirm i and i do agree with your statement we since accessory structures are not permitted in the front yard the variance has to do with the location so we don't have prescribed setbacks however i think what you're getting at is if it was a normal home what would the setback be from a road would be a frontage so the requirement in another situation would be 40 feet so that does that help kind of yeah so thank you again so it's a different another ask right so as we kind of work through this that's where i we were talking about the screening for the side which we did which we did because you're right you don't necessarily need to screen it it was part of trying to soften work with the neighbors that was the reason I went down there okay which which we're showing there that we have screen and now we're gonna talk about how high we need to go okay so the other part is if we were just gonna have this as a retaining wall and you guys were

47. 57:30

    this variance that that did not come up because it is because it's an accessory structure which is not supposed to be in the front yard setback and because of the shape and uh location of this uh extreme grade changes and everything this was the best possible location for this structure i'd like to speak i've heard my name a lot um no it's fine it's totally fine i i there's nothing that's been i did but i just wanted to confirm i and i do agree with your statement we since accessory structures are not permitted in the front yard the variance has to do with the location so we don't have prescribed setbacks however i think what you're getting at is if it was a normal home what would the setback be from a road would be a frontage so the requirement in another situation would be 40 feet so that does that help kind of yeah so thank you again so it's a different another ask right so as we kind of work through this that's where i we were talking about the screening for the side which we did which we did because you're right you don't necessarily need to screen it it was part of trying to soften work with the neighbors that was the reason I went down there okay which which we're showing there that we have screen and now we're gonna talk about how high we need to go okay so the other part is if we were just gonna have this as a retaining wall and you guys were gonna completely fill in the bottom story that would need to be screened which we're doing which would need to be screened just like any other retaining wall up to the height of retaining wall which would be 12 feet 12 feet so when we asked for 12 feet or the neighbors that would be the requirement that we'd have for anybody so that is where that comes in so the fact that they are having this as storage it's just I guess more of a better use and just filling it in with one by three and putting gravel in and just making it a slab that is my thought on that I don't know what other board members think but again we also need to soften some of the the rock so I appreciate you guys taking away the rock associated with the three foot retaining wall to build up to that for that makes sense to me and then when we get to the retaining wall we're gonna we're gonna I would love to soften that but we're gonna get there so anybody else have any other questions former comments there's only four or five of us all right well I think why don't we talk about the retaining wall right so the proposal they're you know proposing that they backfill with dirt so that the

48. 58:45

    part is if we were just gonna have this as a retaining wall and you guys were gonna completely fill in the bottom story that would need to be screened which we're doing which would need to be screened just like any other retaining wall up to the height of retaining wall which would be 12 feet 12 feet so when we asked for 12 feet or the neighbors that would be the requirement that we'd have for anybody so that is where that comes in so the fact that they are having this as storage it's just I guess more of a better use and just filling it in with one by three and putting gravel in and just making it a slab that is my thought on that I don't know what other board members think but again we also need to soften some of the the rock so I appreciate you guys taking away the rock associated with the three foot retaining wall to build up to that for that makes sense to me and then when we get to the retaining wall we're gonna we're gonna I would love to soften that but we're gonna get there so anybody else have any other questions former comments there's only four or five of us all right well I think why don't we talk about the retaining wall right so the proposal they're you know proposing that they backfill with dirt so that the isn't needed and I think we need to look at it as it exists today that was my and treat it as if you know they can they can do that but as of today they need the variance well if you're gonna start talking about the retaining wall I would suggest you make it maybe a determination about the garage and then you would now open it up for the retaining wall and then you have your other board members would be allowed to speak so I just really do each other though I mean it's it's hard to look at them because we can soften part again some of the discussion or worries from the neighbors are softening some of those things so as we try to soften it these are ways that we can get there I'm one second then you go so I'm going to ask that you find a way to help soften this so that we can help if what we need to do okay so in regards to the the let's say semicircle which is the evergreen planting on that berm if the berm is coming up 36 inches we can plant nine foot trees on there which will then hit the 12-foot mark so from grade from the lowest grade currently at the rear yard will come up three feet nine foot trees and we'll cover up that we 12 feet above grade at that point so they unless they're stacked you're technically gonna

49. 1:00:00

    isn't needed and I think we need to look at it as it exists today that was my and treat it as if you know they can they can do that but as of today they need the variance well if you're gonna start talking about the retaining wall I would suggest you make it maybe a determination about the garage and then you would now open it up for the retaining wall and then you have your other board members would be allowed to speak so I just really do each other though I mean it's it's hard to look at them because we can soften part again some of the discussion or worries from the neighbors are softening some of those things so as we try to soften it these are ways that we can get there I'm one second then you go so I'm going to ask that you find a way to help soften this so that we can help if what we need to do okay so in regards to the the let's say semicircle which is the evergreen planting on that berm if the berm is coming up 36 inches we can plant nine foot trees on there which will then hit the 12-foot mark so from grade from the lowest grade currently at the rear yard will come up three feet nine foot trees and we'll cover up that we 12 feet above grade at that point so they unless they're stacked you're technically gonna see the peak of you right you're right there you're gonna stagger well yeah because we run into this issue where you put them and then we Christmas tree is young the lady described, then there's an opening in between, we're trying to minimize some of these things. So can I ask the question on that, according to your ordinance, evergreens can be allowed to only screen up to 75%? Okay, so now I guess we will talk about the retaining wall. Well, this is for the grind. No, that's okay, it's a point of clarification. They go together, yeah. So I just want to point a clarification that a landscape plan shall be submitted that identifies, this is retaining wall only, this has nothing to do with the garage. A landscape plan shall be submitted that identifies the side and species of planting to screen the retaining walls. Retaining walls shall be screened with a landscape plan to consist of at least 75% evergreen plantings. Second sentence, that was a long first sentence. Yes. A landscape plan is required identifying evergreen plantings from multiple tiered walls in excess of four feet in combined height.

50. 1:01:15

    grade at that point so they unless they're stacked you're technically gonna see the peak of you right you're right there you're gonna stagger well yeah because we run into this issue where you put them and then we Christmas tree is young the lady described, then there's an opening in between, we're trying to minimize some of these things. So can I ask the question on that, according to your ordinance, evergreens can be allowed to only screen up to 75%? Okay, so now I guess we will talk about the retaining wall. Well, this is for the grind. No, that's okay, it's a point of clarification. They go together, yeah. So I just want to point a clarification that a landscape plan shall be submitted that identifies, this is retaining wall only, this has nothing to do with the garage. A landscape plan shall be submitted that identifies the side and species of planting to screen the retaining walls. Retaining walls shall be screened with a landscape plan to consist of at least 75% evergreen plantings. Second sentence, that was a long first sentence. Yes. A landscape plan is required identifying evergreen plantings from multiple tiered walls in excess of four feet in combined height. The way it's being proposed, if it's backfilled, it will not be in excess of four feet. Does that? Yes. And because of our setback between walls, each wall is looked at as an individual and not a combined. Correct. Because it's eight feet in between. More than that, yes. So your argument is that if I'm calling this a retaining wall for your first floor, that you only need to do 75%? Is that what your argument is? Well, I'm just asking. Why are you allowed you to bırak this into a building? So as of what you wanted to do, I would still have your hand and open this up empty. Thank you. That was a question, it was an area, it was a question, because you were talking about the peaks, so the question is. I'm trying to find ways for us to, you guys want to get across the finish line? I'm trying to find ways for us to mitigate some of these issues. Maybe that's not at all my job, but. Gus? So the question is, is there, and I know this comes up in commercial and everything else. You know, when we're talking about landscaping, we're talking about planting, it's based on what they will be at maturity, even though they're not being placed or being planted at a mature level. Our ordinance is at times of planting. Can we cover the structure at times of planting? At times of planting, okay. So, you got to come up here. I can't, you know, you can't sit down there and talk. Yes, I'm a little bit.

51. 1:02:30

    A landscape plan is required identifying evergreen plantings from multiple tiered walls in excess of four feet in combined height. The way it's being proposed, if it's backfilled, it will not be in excess of four feet. Does that? Yes. And because of our setback between walls, each wall is looked at as an individual and not a combined. Correct. Because it's eight feet in between. More than that, yes. So your argument is that if I'm calling this a retaining wall for your first floor, that you only need to do 75%? Is that what your argument is? Well, I'm just asking. Why are you allowed you to bırak this into a building? So as of what you wanted to do, I would still have your hand and open this up empty. Thank you. That was a question, it was an area, it was a question, because you were talking about the peaks, so the question is. I'm trying to find ways for us to, you guys want to get across the finish line? I'm trying to find ways for us to mitigate some of these issues. Maybe that's not at all my job, but. Gus? So the question is, is there, and I know this comes up in commercial and everything else. You know, when we're talking about landscaping, we're talking about planting, it's based on what they will be at maturity, even though they're not being placed or being planted at a mature level. Our ordinance is at times of planting. Can we cover the structure at times of planting? At times of planting, okay. So, you got to come up here. I can't, you know, you can't sit down there and talk. Yes, I'm a little bit. So the question is, is how do we get away from the voids between the peaks without doing a stagger, or do we come up with a larger plant and we just top them off for a staggered way? Just plant them a little bit closer together on a staggered. Do you have enough room to do that? Yes. Yes. And again, are we talking about the garage? We're talking about the garage now. Yes. I thought Andrea was talking about the retainer. Well, she was going there, but that's because of the 75. Never mind. And again. All right. So, yes, that can be created. No problem. And that's why we showed that image of it looking more like a hedge when it's done instead of individual little peaks. Correct, but that's more at maturity, right? Yes. That won't be technically. One year. One year. Yeah. They could be turned into that. hedge look. You know, you could top them at 12 foot and just let them row together more. You know, you see it all the time. All the time. So, it's something that could be done. So, what do people think about the height? Because the intent is to cover the basis. So, do you guys think it should be higher or lower? Or higher or minimum nine feet? We're not going lower. I think it needs to be higher. Okay. We originally said 12 feet.

52. 1:03:45

    Yes, I'm a little bit. So the question is, is how do we get away from the voids between the peaks without doing a stagger, or do we come up with a larger plant and we just top them off for a staggered way? Just plant them a little bit closer together on a staggered. Do you have enough room to do that? Yes. Yes. And again, are we talking about the garage? We're talking about the garage now. Yes. I thought Andrea was talking about the retainer. Well, she was going there, but that's because of the 75. Never mind. And again. All right. So, yes, that can be created. No problem. And that's why we showed that image of it looking more like a hedge when it's done instead of individual little peaks. Correct, but that's more at maturity, right? Yes. That won't be technically. One year. One year. Yeah. They could be turned into that. hedge look. You know, you could top them at 12 foot and just let them row together more. You know, you see it all the time. All the time. So, it's something that could be done. So, what do people think about the height? Because the intent is to cover the basis. So, do you guys think it should be higher or lower? Or higher or minimum nine feet? We're not going lower. I think it needs to be higher. Okay. We originally said 12 feet. Yeah. I'm sticking with 12. It's 12 feet with the three foot raised grade. So, nine foot plus three foot equals 12 feet. How about 12 feet plus three feet? That's 15. Yes. And it's compromised. I know it's expensive. This whole thing's expensive. How about on that portion of it, but the one that goes along the road, the straight one. Yeah. We will. All right. We might as well go back and forth. Yes. So, as we go along the road, we're going to start, when is that grade? At the 12 feet, right? Which would match the same as the ones you're... At the very lowest point. Correct. And as we go up, where do you guys think it should be? I don't think 12 feet would be a reasonable accommodation because technically our ordinance says we don't have to block. So, they are trying to accommodate some of the additional needs from the nation. how do you think that should look garage so as we look along the trim

53. 1:05:00

    Okay. We originally said 12 feet. Yeah. I'm sticking with 12. It's 12 feet with the three foot raised grade. So, nine foot plus three foot equals 12 feet. How about 12 feet plus three feet? That's 15. Yes. And it's compromised. I know it's expensive. This whole thing's expensive. How about on that portion of it, but the one that goes along the road, the straight one. Yeah. We will. All right. We might as well go back and forth. Yes. So, as we go along the road, we're going to start, when is that grade? At the 12 feet, right? Which would match the same as the ones you're... At the very lowest point. Correct. And as we go up, where do you guys think it should be? I don't think 12 feet would be a reasonable accommodation because technically our ordinance says we don't have to block. So, they are trying to accommodate some of the additional needs from the nation. how do you think that should look garage so as we look along the trim arborvitaes along the top of this you have a north side as they get the elevation goes from grade down 12 feet so the owner is committed to putting 12 feet arborvitaes at the base which will continue the intent of covering the basement portion of this structure which would be the same as if it was a retaining wall as we continue to go up I had alluded to softening the building as they say this height seems to be a problem for the neighborhood so keep in mind the overhang I want to get you some answers yes it's not supposed to be a deliberate that's supposed to be a cover a negotiation but we're working on it so well you can stagger it but I mean I can't sit here and give you the height of you know every every two feet it's how about at the end doesn't need to be six feet at the end and 12 feet at the end and they can bring it down into a aesthetically pleasing with design architect their design architect again let me help you if you help that makes sense to me to give them a start and an end and

54. 1:06:15

    how do you think that should look garage so as we look along the trim arborvitaes along the top of this you have a north side as they get the elevation goes from grade down 12 feet so the owner is committed to putting 12 feet arborvitaes at the base which will continue the intent of covering the basement portion of this structure which would be the same as if it was a retaining wall as we continue to go up I had alluded to softening the building as they say this height seems to be a problem for the neighborhood so keep in mind the overhang I want to get you some answers yes it's not supposed to be a deliberate that's supposed to be a cover a negotiation but we're working on it so well you can stagger it but I mean I can't sit here and give you the height of you know every every two feet it's how about at the end doesn't need to be six feet at the end and 12 feet at the end and they can bring it down into a aesthetically pleasing with design architect their design architect again let me help you if you help that makes sense to me to give them a start and an end and Mr. Gittleman? I would say 8 to 15. Start up low at 8. And then continue that berm down there? Okay. So you're going to continue a berm so that you can get the same height, right? So 3 feet plus 12 feet equals 15, which you told me earlier with my math. Yeah, we're going to be done. So we'll do that same math on the side so that as we continue out the first couple of arborvitaes, which will be 12 feet, and then as we tailor it down, then we'll go up to 8 feet at the end. Sure. He's spending your money. I'm trying to... You know what? I don't care. I'm not taking the grade. You can spend the money. Done. So that helps soften... That's a big... That's a big... I think that's... That's a big help. Because, again, our ordinance necessarily doesn't do that. Right. But, again, as we balance out where we're putting this garage. So that's most of the landscaping. Landscaping. Anything else from anybody else who has a comment? Yes, I think we can make the motion then on the garage. Okay. And then deal with the... Can I ask you a question? How long do I get to do this? Because I'm looking at the timeline... Can you see...

55. 1:07:30

    Mr. Gittleman? I would say 8 to 15. Start up low at 8. And then continue that berm down there? Okay. So you're going to continue a berm so that you can get the same height, right? So 3 feet plus 12 feet equals 15, which you told me earlier with my math. Yeah, we're going to be done. So we'll do that same math on the side so that as we continue out the first couple of arborvitaes, which will be 12 feet, and then as we tailor it down, then we'll go up to 8 feet at the end. Sure. He's spending your money. I'm trying to... You know what? I don't care. I'm not taking the grade. You can spend the money. Done. So that helps soften... That's a big... That's a big... I think that's... That's a big help. Because, again, our ordinance necessarily doesn't do that. Right. But, again, as we balance out where we're putting this garage. So that's most of the landscaping. Landscaping. Anything else from anybody else who has a comment? Yes, I think we can make the motion then on the garage. Okay. And then deal with the... Can I ask you a question? How long do I get to do this? Because I'm looking at the timeline... Can you see... You have to stay in front of that so that we can hear... Oh, here. How long do I get to build this project now? Because I'm getting in tight time frame with contractors and stuff. You know, I get a year? Is that how long... The variance is good for one year. One year? Okay. So, but... But then you apply for permits. One year to pull a permit. You have one year to pull a permit. That's all. Okay, that's it. Thank you. So I think you can make the motion, Chris. Okay, sounds good. In regards to the permission request for the appeal at 4246 Sandy Lane, for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as many people have three-car garage or secondary structures. And then we'll go to the dimensional. And then in regards to the appeal at 4246 Sandy Lane for the height requirement, right? No, the height is for the retaining wall, right? Yeah, the only thing I gotta do is a permission request on the garage. No, because technically the garage is higher than 14 foot for the accessory structure. So the height for the garage is a variance.

56. 1:08:45

    Can you see... You have to stay in front of that so that we can hear... Oh, here. How long do I get to build this project now? Because I'm getting in tight time frame with contractors and stuff. You know, I get a year? Is that how long... The variance is good for one year. One year? Okay. So, but... But then you apply for permits. One year to pull a permit. You have one year to pull a permit. That's all. Okay, that's it. Thank you. So I think you can make the motion, Chris. Okay, sounds good. In regards to the permission request for the appeal at 4246 Sandy Lane, for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as many people have three-car garage or secondary structures. And then we'll go to the dimensional. And then in regards to the appeal at 4246 Sandy Lane for the height requirement, right? No, the height is for the retaining wall, right? Yeah, the only thing I gotta do is a permission request on the garage. No, because technically the garage is higher than 14 foot for the accessory structure. So the height for the garage is a variance. Okay, so in regards to the variance for the height, that's right, because of the bonus room. I move the variance be approved as we're gonna go amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section for practical difficulty because compliance with Strickler, the ordinance will be unduly burdensome because they're trying to match the aesthetics of the house. So putting the dormer and those things is trying to make it more appealing. As well as it is still lower than the attached structure of the attached garage of the home. There's no adjust to your adjoining neighbors by the reason of we're gonna talk about it. the things we're going to do because of that unique services on the property have been demonstrated given the fact of a significant topography as well as where other places you could put it while maintaining water management and then this is not self-created because of where your property is and your garage your driveway as well as water runoff from the existing road so here are the stipulations you will be putting starting eight foot arborvities to 12 foot arborvities with a three foot berm for a total of 15 feet at the bottom for arborvities for our green giants is that what they are yeah the green giants on the curved wall those will be 12 feet with a three foot berm that three foot berm will

57. 1:10:00

    So the height for the garage is a variance. Okay, so in regards to the variance for the height, that's right, because of the bonus room. I move the variance be approved as we're gonna go amended. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section for practical difficulty because compliance with Strickler, the ordinance will be unduly burdensome because they're trying to match the aesthetics of the house. So putting the dormer and those things is trying to make it more appealing. As well as it is still lower than the attached structure of the attached garage of the home. There's no adjust to your adjoining neighbors by the reason of we're gonna talk about it. the things we're going to do because of that unique services on the property have been demonstrated given the fact of a significant topography as well as where other places you could put it while maintaining water management and then this is not self-created because of where your property is and your garage your driveway as well as water runoff from the existing road so here are the stipulations you will be putting starting eight foot arborvities to 12 foot arborvities with a three foot berm for a total of 15 feet at the bottom for arborvities for our green giants is that what they are yeah the green giants on the curved wall those will be 12 feet with a three foot berm that three foot berm will not have any type of rocks associated with it it'll be grass going up um all if approved all permits must be made within one year and all applications for necessary permits must be made before starting the project and all these evergreen plantings will be required to completely screen it to get your approval support part do we need a single family affidavit for the garage or no oh and then you also thank you so much for that you'll have to sign an affidavit saying that this is single family single family affidavit for the garage thank you very much which basically just says that you're not going to have anybody I will be looking for this one But think thats of it living there so we have a motion and support so discussion so Chris just to clarify you said this must completely screen it and so what I think you need to clarify what you it is the lower structure of the garage yeah it's that for yeah so it's not obviously screening the entire thing but correct okay so our intent and again yeah we've given you the height to where it is and we are going to comply with that all right any other discussion all those in

58. 1:11:15

    green giants on the curved wall those will be 12 feet with a three foot berm that three foot berm will not have any type of rocks associated with it it'll be grass going up um all if approved all permits must be made within one year and all applications for necessary permits must be made before starting the project and all these evergreen plantings will be required to completely screen it to get your approval support part do we need a single family affidavit for the garage or no oh and then you also thank you so much for that you'll have to sign an affidavit saying that this is single family single family affidavit for the garage thank you very much which basically just says that you're not going to have anybody I will be looking for this one But think thats of it living there so we have a motion and support so discussion so Chris just to clarify you said this must completely screen it and so what I think you need to clarify what you it is the lower structure of the garage yeah it's that for yeah so it's not obviously screening the entire thing but correct okay so our intent and again yeah we've given you the height to where it is and we are going to comply with that all right any other discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations five to zero all right so now we're now we're discussing the dimensional variance for the retaining wall which everyone can now discuss so on this as I said I think it needs to be softened as the neighbors continue to talk about and you have worked with us on the softening of these other areas I would like to see similar type of evergreen plantings in front of it so you have boxwoods and the lowest retaining walls are five over tenual right they vary from about three and a half feet to about five foot two or something like that and that's where our issue is the issue is at the five foot two side yes so from my perspective I would like to see box was in front of that up to the 75% coverage associated with it To soften that it matches your landscaping and it will provide Some softening to your neighbors that seem to have a trouble with it now. You're right that the other ones don't require

59. 1:12:30

    we are going to comply with that all right any other discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations five to zero all right so now we're now we're discussing the dimensional variance for the retaining wall which everyone can now discuss so on this as I said I think it needs to be softened as the neighbors continue to talk about and you have worked with us on the softening of these other areas I would like to see similar type of evergreen plantings in front of it so you have boxwoods and the lowest retaining walls are five over tenual right they vary from about three and a half feet to about five foot two or something like that and that's where our issue is the issue is at the five foot two side yes so from my perspective I would like to see box was in front of that up to the 75% coverage associated with it To soften that it matches your landscaping and it will provide Some softening to your neighbors that seem to have a trouble with it now. You're right that the other ones don't require They tell permitting But this one does at this time That is a fact so we're gonna look at it right now at least in my opinion for my vote So what my members here say Question is there any issue with us still balancing regardless because of just the soils being removed? No, but we're still gonna okay. It would still be required that you put the boxwoods in If my my members here believe the same thing I do Yeah, cuz again the two are related We're talking about a visual impact in the softening. I think I think this is part of it. So You totally lost me on this I You know, I get it we've been going forever. Do we require a variance for four-foot high walls? Yes or no? If if the plan is revised in that lower wall is only four feet tall There would be no variance or nothing before the ZVA It's before you right now because the way that is designed in the field is not compliant But if we denied the variance we'd have to bring it down into compliance Correct You You

60. 1:13:45

    Some softening to your neighbors that seem to have a trouble with it now. You're right that the other ones don't require They tell permitting But this one does at this time That is a fact so we're gonna look at it right now at least in my opinion for my vote So what my members here say Question is there any issue with us still balancing regardless because of just the soils being removed? No, but we're still gonna okay. It would still be required that you put the boxwoods in If my my members here believe the same thing I do Yeah, cuz again the two are related We're talking about a visual impact in the softening. I think I think this is part of it. So You totally lost me on this I You know, I get it we've been going forever. Do we require a variance for four-foot high walls? Yes or no? If if the plan is revised in that lower wall is only four feet tall There would be no variance or nothing before the ZVA It's before you right now because the way that is designed in the field is not compliant But if we denied the variance we'd have to bring it down into compliance Correct You You So, Kira, you're saying if we denied it, technically they could balance it and get around it? Then they'd comply. Then they'd comply? Is that what you're saying, Ms. Rosati? I mean, that's two options. Or we could require it, they could ignore it and balance it. Well, and here's the other thing. Regardless of whether the ordinance says 75 percent, okay, if we're granting a variance, we can place reasonable conditions. So, we can make it 100 percent if we want if we believe that's necessary. So, I, you know, wouldn't get hung up on that 75 percent figure at all. Thank you, and I would agree with that. So, if you want to, don't care about the height and want to go with the screening, you know. So, then he could balance it and place the screening on top of it to obscure the entire lower level. And that would soften it and, I think, address a lot of the concerns. So, how's that sound? I hope they get a little more creative than just rows of the same trees, okay? How's that sound? So, well, let me ask you this. Can we, because again, if we balance it and we meet the intent, can we balance it and do boxwoods so that if this... Kind of matches the other levels. Aesthetically pleasing to match the other two elevation of boxwoods.

61. 1:15:00

    So, Kira, you're saying if we denied it, technically they could balance it and get around it? Then they'd comply. Then they'd comply? Is that what you're saying, Ms. Rosati? I mean, that's two options. Or we could require it, they could ignore it and balance it. Well, and here's the other thing. Regardless of whether the ordinance says 75 percent, okay, if we're granting a variance, we can place reasonable conditions. So, we can make it 100 percent if we want if we believe that's necessary. So, I, you know, wouldn't get hung up on that 75 percent figure at all. Thank you, and I would agree with that. So, if you want to, don't care about the height and want to go with the screening, you know. So, then he could balance it and place the screening on top of it to obscure the entire lower level. And that would soften it and, I think, address a lot of the concerns. So, how's that sound? I hope they get a little more creative than just rows of the same trees, okay? How's that sound? So, well, let me ask you this. Can we, because again, if we balance it and we meet the intent, can we balance it and do boxwoods so that if this... Kind of matches the other levels. Aesthetically pleasing to match the other two elevation of boxwoods. That's better than it is now. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think you can do that. Okay. We'd be okay with that. All right. Make the motion, Chris. For the motion. For... Carol, may the... So you can do the motion. Okay, sounds good. In regards to the appeal of 46 Sandy Lane for the height variance. I move the variance be approved as amended. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate standards for practical difficulty because compliance strictly ordinance be duly burdensome. Because there is such a great difference in his backyard. The intent of this was to soften it and ensure that it didn't have erosion associated with his home. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of the plantings we're gonna do to soften it. Unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given the fact that again, you have a significant topography change on this lot. This is not self created because again, the lot was like this when you guys bought it. So we will be requiring, whether you do land balancing or not, you will be utilizing a boxwood type of tree and you will soften that entire lower wall. To match the similar structure that you have with the other beautiful landscaping you've done. If approved, all application for murmurants must be made within five business days. And the additional evergreen plantings will be required because it's an existing retaining wall you need to do within five business days.

62. 1:16:15

    Aesthetically pleasing to match the other two elevation of boxwoods. That's better than it is now. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I think you can do that. Okay. We'd be okay with that. All right. Make the motion, Chris. For the motion. For... Carol, may the... So you can do the motion. Okay, sounds good. In regards to the appeal of 46 Sandy Lane for the height variance. I move the variance be approved as amended. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate standards for practical difficulty because compliance strictly ordinance be duly burdensome. Because there is such a great difference in his backyard. The intent of this was to soften it and ensure that it didn't have erosion associated with his home. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of the plantings we're gonna do to soften it. Unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given the fact that again, you have a significant topography change on this lot. This is not self created because again, the lot was like this when you guys bought it. So we will be requiring, whether you do land balancing or not, you will be utilizing a boxwood type of tree and you will soften that entire lower wall. To match the similar structure that you have with the other beautiful landscaping you've done. If approved, all application for murmurants must be made within five business days. And the additional evergreen plantings will be required because it's an existing retaining wall you need to do within five business days. Submit for five business days, not take care of the work within five business days? Permit. Correct. Permit. Got it. It's gonna be hard to plant an evergreen right now. Well, you can't do your balancing. Well, you could today. Get out there. So I have motion and support, any discussion? All of you here say aye. Aye. Any. I propose your request as modified as granted. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Chris. Calling the next item. Item. Good job, guys. 1P3894PY. Oh, that's sports court. Okay. Okay. You promised. Hello. Hi. Good evening. Good evening. Hopefully mine will not be as cumbersome, and I'll try to get you guys some of your time back. So my name is Drew Ste.

63. 1:17:30

    And the additional evergreen plantings will be required because it's an existing retaining wall you need to do within five business days. Submit for five business days, not take care of the work within five business days? Permit. Correct. Permit. Got it. It's gonna be hard to plant an evergreen right now. Well, you can't do your balancing. Well, you could today. Get out there. So I have motion and support, any discussion? All of you here say aye. Aye. Any. I propose your request as modified as granted. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Chris. Calling the next item. Item. Good job, guys. 1P3894PY. Oh, that's sports court. Okay. Okay. You promised. Hello. Hi. Good evening. Good evening. Hopefully mine will not be as cumbersome, and I'll try to get you guys some of your time back. So my name is Drew Ste. I live at 3894 Peabody with my wife and three kids. We are requesting approval of a sports court in our backyard for family recreational use only. My goal is to create a safe, well-maintained space for my children to ensure it fits with the character of the neighborhood and complies with all of the city requests. And so the goal is to have a family recreational not commercial sports court improves the safety for our children. Unfortunately, our driveway doesn't allow us to play sports. We have a circle driveway and a pitched driveway so they can't play their sports. Minimal visual impact, you know, we'll continue to maintain those trees and add. Thank you. Thank you. I'll see you next time. we need no noise impact we have the support from our surrounding neighbors obviously you know we'll keep the kids inside at appropriate times we believe that the property value will be neutral and or positive drainage and construction will be done properly and pulled proper license by professionals willing to work with the city on that so closing notes are i want to respectfully ask for your support and honor the neighborhood um and ask to have a sports court

64. 1:18:45

    I live at 3894 Peabody with my wife and three kids. We are requesting approval of a sports court in our backyard for family recreational use only. My goal is to create a safe, well-maintained space for my children to ensure it fits with the character of the neighborhood and complies with all of the city requests. And so the goal is to have a family recreational not commercial sports court improves the safety for our children. Unfortunately, our driveway doesn't allow us to play sports. We have a circle driveway and a pitched driveway so they can't play their sports. Minimal visual impact, you know, we'll continue to maintain those trees and add. Thank you. Thank you. I'll see you next time. we need no noise impact we have the support from our surrounding neighbors obviously you know we'll keep the kids inside at appropriate times we believe that the property value will be neutral and or positive drainage and construction will be done properly and pulled proper license by professionals willing to work with the city on that so closing notes are i want to respectfully ask for your support and honor the neighborhood um and ask to have a sports court for the family thanks very much any questions from the board yeah i just want to clarify you're not asking for any kind of fence around that sports court if if it's required we we will just a lot of times people want to catch the balls or no i think that the trees will provide that okay get more exercise chasing the ball uh openness to the public anyone would like to speak close the public hearing bring it back for questions or a motion so i have a couple comments so obviously you know we have a moratorium on sports courts correct your application became no time so one of the big problems we have with sports courts is noise as well as um water runoff and water retention so are you planning on having a civil engineer come up with your plan and have that as part of your package to submit i mean if it's necessary i mean i don't there's a ravine up to the north side of the property and so but if there is runoff needed you know we i believe i forgot who i was talking to but we can you know put in a french drain to catch that and then for your first part of the question we don't play where we don't plan

65. 1:20:00

    want to respectfully ask for your support and honor the neighborhood um and ask to have a sports court for the family thanks very much any questions from the board yeah i just want to clarify you're not asking for any kind of fence around that sports court if if it's required we we will just a lot of times people want to catch the balls or no i think that the trees will provide that okay get more exercise chasing the ball uh openness to the public anyone would like to speak close the public hearing bring it back for questions or a motion so i have a couple comments so obviously you know we have a moratorium on sports courts correct your application became no time so one of the big problems we have with sports courts is noise as well as um water runoff and water retention so are you planning on having a civil engineer come up with your plan and have that as part of your package to submit i mean if it's necessary i mean i don't there's a ravine up to the north side of the property and so but if there is runoff needed you know we i believe i forgot who i was talking to but we can you know put in a french drain to catch that and then for your first part of the question we don't play where we don't plan on playing pickleball which i assume that's the reason why the you know noise audience ordinance or whatever um and so maybe that answers your first question it does but if you happen to move somebody else can play pickleball there so that's where we can't we can't control what you do on that property which is great that's your property yep but talking about the water you don't know if there's a water issue unless you have a civil engineer come up with a plan yeah we can do that so i asking the board if you guys would be okay with i would like to require a civil engineering plan with his permit i think in light of the current situation we have moratorium i think that's prudent makes sense okay and the applicant's good with it so all it does is protect you as well because now you have a civil engineer who comes up to plan it will mitigate any issues between you and your neighbors so i just can't help myself this is a buzzer beater for you you got this in before the moratorium yeah yeah yeah i know you're the last one yeah yeah well we were supposed to be on the january meeting and the times got mixed up no no that's i'm not criticizing i'm just getting побед of it so congratulations making another top no no it's a buzzer beater okay yeah yeah

66. 1:21:15

    to catch that and then for your first part of the question we don't play where we don't plan on playing pickleball which i assume that's the reason why the you know noise audience ordinance or whatever um and so maybe that answers your first question it does but if you happen to move somebody else can play pickleball there so that's where we can't we can't control what you do on that property which is great that's your property yep but talking about the water you don't know if there's a water issue unless you have a civil engineer come up with a plan yeah we can do that so i asking the board if you guys would be okay with i would like to require a civil engineering plan with his permit i think in light of the current situation we have moratorium i think that's prudent makes sense okay and the applicant's good with it so all it does is protect you as well because now you have a civil engineer who comes up to plan it will mitigate any issues between you and your neighbors so i just can't help myself this is a buzzer beater for you you got this in before the moratorium yeah yeah yeah i know you're the last one yeah yeah well we were supposed to be on the january meeting and the times got mixed up no no that's i'm not criticizing i'm just getting побед of it so congratulations making another top no no it's a buzzer beater okay yeah yeah You ready for motion? Sure. Chris is tired, so can someone else pick up the load here? He's had so much good information. Okay. There we go. Okay, I'll start with the permission. Yes, permission first. In regards to the appeal at 3894 Peabody. I'm from Boston. It's Peabody. We say Peabody. Peabody? Yes, I caught myself. My husband's always corrected me. Yeah, I'm from Boston. Okay. In regards to the appeal at 3894 Peabody for the accessory structure of a sports court, I move that. All right, hold on. Uh-oh. I've been corrected that I didn't have a public hearing, so anyone like to speak on this either? I thought you did. I did. You did. Oh. That's okay. I defer to the smarter people. The smarter people. So we had two public hearings on this one. Let's put that in the record that I was asked to hold a second public hearing. Close it again. Bring it back. Okay. All right. So, based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate with the neighborhood. As, again, we do have lots of sports courts. And luckily, this one got in in time.

67. 1:22:30

    You ready for motion? Sure. Chris is tired, so can someone else pick up the load here? He's had so much good information. Okay. There we go. Okay, I'll start with the permission. Yes, permission first. In regards to the appeal at 3894 Peabody. I'm from Boston. It's Peabody. We say Peabody. Peabody? Yes, I caught myself. My husband's always corrected me. Yeah, I'm from Boston. Okay. In regards to the appeal at 3894 Peabody for the accessory structure of a sports court, I move that. All right, hold on. Uh-oh. I've been corrected that I didn't have a public hearing, so anyone like to speak on this either? I thought you did. I did. You did. Oh. That's okay. I defer to the smarter people. The smarter people. So we had two public hearings on this one. Let's put that in the record that I was asked to hold a second public hearing. Close it again. Bring it back. Okay. All right. So, based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate with the neighborhood. As, again, we do have lots of sports courts. And luckily, this one got in in time. In terms of the dimensional variance at 3894 Peabody Drive for the sports court, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practice. It's fantastic. Okay. Thank you. difficulty because compliance with the strict order of the letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of it it would not be able to utilize and prevent reasonable use of the property and as well as having some recreational for his family there's no injustice to their journey neighbors because the it will be heavily screened in unique circumstances again of the properties because it has two frontages and that's why they do need the variance and because of that it is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within all one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the sports court additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the sports court from public view so just make sure that it's screened and shall meet or exceed the height of the sports court at the time of planting which should be pretty easy there's no illumination permitted on the sports court and use of the sport court is limited to daytime hours support my

68. 1:23:45

    And luckily, this one got in in time. In terms of the dimensional variance at 3894 Peabody Drive for the sports court, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practice. It's fantastic. Okay. Thank you. difficulty because compliance with the strict order of the letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of it it would not be able to utilize and prevent reasonable use of the property and as well as having some recreational for his family there's no injustice to their journey neighbors because the it will be heavily screened in unique circumstances again of the properties because it has two frontages and that's why they do need the variance and because of that it is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within all one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction of the sports court additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the sports court from public view so just make sure that it's screened and shall meet or exceed the height of the sports court at the time of planting which should be pretty easy there's no illumination permitted on the sports court and use of the sport court is limited to daytime hours support my motion support any discussion yes point of clarification in your motion can we make sure that we have requires a civil engineering plan prior with permits thank you and also included in that motion will be that it is required to have a silver engineer to examine the water runoff support so I just an amendment and support all those in favor of the amended motion aye aye aye any opposed your request your request is granted your request is granted Calling the next item, Item 2P, Parcel 1917-276-016. Good evening. Good evening. Sean Cherenian. This is the little lake lot we have on Lower Long Lake. I think we're requesting just to replace the front fence that's on Franklin Road that's rusted from when we purchased. And we erected a little shed. And we're going to close it off with some evergreens or like some evervites to block it from the road.

69. 1:25:00

    sports court and use of the sport court is limited to daytime hours support my motion support any discussion yes point of clarification in your motion can we make sure that we have requires a civil engineering plan prior with permits thank you and also included in that motion will be that it is required to have a silver engineer to examine the water runoff support so I just an amendment and support all those in favor of the amended motion aye aye aye any opposed your request your request is granted your request is granted Calling the next item, Item 2P, Parcel 1917-276-016. Good evening. Good evening. Sean Cherenian. This is the little lake lot we have on Lower Long Lake. I think we're requesting just to replace the front fence that's on Franklin Road that's rusted from when we purchased. And we erected a little shed. And we're going to close it off with some evergreens or like some evervites to block it from the road. And the fence is five feet? So it's the existing fence. We're just replacing it with the exact same height, exact same material. And the existing fence is? Five feet tall. Okay. It's a black chain link. Okay. Any other questions? No, just point of clarification. Your lot is 17 feet wide. I think it's like 20-something. Whoa. 17 feet. Oh, from the front and the back is the width. So, like, the width. Yeah. So, why I bring that up is normal accessory structures have to be within 16 feet of the property line. You can't meet that because of this. So that's a unique circumstance of your property. So, I think that's kind of everything. but how do you plan on screening it I was gonna see I don't want to block it from the road because people like to see lower Long Lake when they're driving on Franklin or walking so I was gonna put some everybody's in front of it just blocking the shed which is I think it's about four and a half or five feet wide yeah because it basically drops down yes so you'll get it so it's basically at the height of the shed yeah but then still allows that Lakeview yeah another unique circumstance yes any other questions I'll open this to the

70. 1:26:15

    And the fence is five feet? So it's the existing fence. We're just replacing it with the exact same height, exact same material. And the existing fence is? Five feet tall. Okay. It's a black chain link. Okay. Any other questions? No, just point of clarification. Your lot is 17 feet wide. I think it's like 20-something. Whoa. 17 feet. Oh, from the front and the back is the width. So, like, the width. Yeah. So, why I bring that up is normal accessory structures have to be within 16 feet of the property line. You can't meet that because of this. So that's a unique circumstance of your property. So, I think that's kind of everything. but how do you plan on screening it I was gonna see I don't want to block it from the road because people like to see lower Long Lake when they're driving on Franklin or walking so I was gonna put some everybody's in front of it just blocking the shed which is I think it's about four and a half or five feet wide yeah because it basically drops down yes so you'll get it so it's basically at the height of the shed yeah but then still allows that Lakeview yeah another unique circumstance yes any other questions I'll open this to the public hi I'm Terry Fenner I live at 3701 Franklin I've been there 33 years this year my property is right across Franklin to this property actually is probably the same thing that's given to me by the township I pulled out of my driveway on here we go we can show you this one June 6 and this was a view okay and then on June 8th I came back and this was a view so I went over I came over here to the township office and I asked him this happened over the weekend where's the permit was our permit because you know there's many ordinances for some joins yeah use site that has not been handled and if a permit had been pulled I'm sure we wouldn't be here several non-compliance one located in the front yard that is the front yard on Franklin screen as you talk but if you really look at the

71. 1:27:30

    unique circumstance yes any other questions I'll open this to the public hi I'm Terry Fenner I live at 3701 Franklin I've been there 33 years this year my property is right across Franklin to this property actually is probably the same thing that's given to me by the township I pulled out of my driveway on here we go we can show you this one June 6 and this was a view okay and then on June 8th I came back and this was a view so I went over I came over here to the township office and I asked him this happened over the weekend where's the permit was our permit because you know there's many ordinances for some joins yeah use site that has not been handled and if a permit had been pulled I'm sure we wouldn't be here several non-compliance one located in the front yard that is the front yard on Franklin screen as you talk but if you really look at the structure I'm not really I'm not a landscaper but you can just come I show you throughout the seasons that it is not going to be screened or it isn't screened at this point and if you look at this one and then that one so we don't have any way to put any plantings you've got cement there it's right up to the neighbor's lat line it'll be very difficult and even if you did put those I've got green Giants all around my property and they grow fast and pretty much I'd be seeing the green Giants and no legs so for it to cite that to give it the lake view that's very kind of you but I don't think I'd see it the shed is unsightly nobody wants to see it I walked there every day with a bunch of other walkers I had somebody say oh did someone put a port-a-potty in front of that you you you you

72. 1:28:45

    front yard on Franklin screen as you talk but if you really look at the structure I'm not really I'm not a landscaper but you can just come I show you throughout the seasons that it is not going to be screened or it isn't screened at this point and if you look at this one and then that one so we don't have any way to put any plantings you've got cement there it's right up to the neighbor's lat line it'll be very difficult and even if you did put those I've got green Giants all around my property and they grow fast and pretty much I'd be seeing the green Giants and no legs so for it to cite that to give it the lake view that's very kind of you but I don't think I'd see it the shed is unsightly nobody wants to see it I walked there every day with a bunch of other walkers I had somebody say oh did someone put a port-a-potty in front of that you you you you lot I mean it's it's very unsightly there's really no hardship to remove it because it came in in the middle of the night it could be taken out in the middle of the night too I worry about the president because on this area there are a lot of little pieces of lots that do not have structures on it so if we allow this one we're going to have at every 17 feet is that what we said we're gonna see another shed it's just it's it's going to be very unsightly the last thing I want to cite is I have a deed restriction that cites that we cannot put a structure there on property unless there is another residence or a building itself I did have someone look at it but and and this is what pretty much is across the street from it I really don't I can see the shed from my upstairs my porch I pull out I see it coming out of my driveway and you know it's it's very

73. 1:30:00

    lot I mean it's it's very unsightly there's really no hardship to remove it because it came in in the middle of the night it could be taken out in the middle of the night too I worry about the president because on this area there are a lot of little pieces of lots that do not have structures on it so if we allow this one we're going to have at every 17 feet is that what we said we're gonna see another shed it's just it's it's going to be very unsightly the last thing I want to cite is I have a deed restriction that cites that we cannot put a structure there on property unless there is another residence or a building itself I did have someone look at it but and and this is what pretty much is across the street from it I really don't I can see the shed from my upstairs my porch I pull out I see it coming out of my driveway and you know it's it's very unsightly and I really respectfully request that you deny the application the application onto the black fence if look at the fencing it's all horrible I agree with you on that and it I don't think it's five feet I think it's the normal four feet the comments come to I'm sorry but the black fence it would be higher is what I've been told and what's there and I would be willing to put on what we have but not black because I think if as a collective group it'd be nice to replace the whole fencing so I really and that one I don't have a too strong of opinion but on the shot I do thank you very much okay is there anyone else would like to speak on this item I'll close the public hearing and let the applicant respond so I respect her a lot I don't I never met you but I respect her a lot I mean if I can do something to soften it up and put a smaller one it's not an expensive structure we put

74. 1:31:15

    porch I pull out I see it coming out of my driveway and you know it's it's very unsightly and I really respectfully request that you deny the application the application onto the black fence if look at the fencing it's all horrible I agree with you on that and it I don't think it's five feet I think it's the normal four feet the comments come to I'm sorry but the black fence it would be higher is what I've been told and what's there and I would be willing to put on what we have but not black because I think if as a collective group it'd be nice to replace the whole fencing so I really and that one I don't have a too strong of opinion but on the shot I do thank you very much okay is there anyone else would like to speak on this item I'll close the public hearing and let the applicant respond so I respect her a lot I don't I never met you but I respect her a lot I mean if I can do something to soften it up and put a smaller one it's not an expensive structure we put but we are not the only ones I think I'm the only one without a structure I'm one of the lake lots and there's actually what's before us yeah we're looking at your request yeah it is you're gonna it's in a spot where it can't be screened so she's got a point well I have property before it before the fence there's property that's where I was gonna put the everybody's so and then there's there's probably about four feet after it between the structure and line so I have property on both sides of it where I can add something to block it but it will be screened from public view so when the walkers go by they're not gonna see it I mean I could yeah absolutely I don't know about from every angle because if you're walking towards lost late standard is public view so yes I'm a very public spot there yes yes so you're gonna have to meet that if you want to keep the shed okay I could screen the fence but I didn't want to because I respect them to want to look at the lake when they're walking or whatnot screening the shed is the same so I have the same issue is she's talking

75. 1:32:30

    something to soften it up and put a smaller one it's not an expensive structure we put but we are not the only ones I think I'm the only one without a structure I'm one of the lake lots and there's actually what's before us yeah we're looking at your request yeah it is you're gonna it's in a spot where it can't be screened so she's got a point well I have property before it before the fence there's property that's where I was gonna put the everybody's so and then there's there's probably about four feet after it between the structure and line so I have property on both sides of it where I can add something to block it but it will be screened from public view so when the walkers go by they're not gonna see it I mean I could yeah absolutely I don't know about from every angle because if you're walking towards lost late standard is public view so yes I'm a very public spot there yes yes so you're gonna have to meet that if you want to keep the shed okay I could screen the fence but I didn't want to because I respect them to want to look at the lake when they're walking or whatnot screening the shed is the same so I have the same issue is she's talking about how she doesn't have that view so if we make him screen any of it we're going to more limit the view right yeah because again this very unique circumstance before I purchased the property I I mean I spent a lot of money on landscaping but before I purchased it you couldn't see the lake it was pretty much blocked off like all trees the fence you couldn't barely see it was all like vines grown on it so I cleaned it so you can actually see the lake so so what is the need for the shed I mean I have a I have a pontoon boat a couple jet skis yeah just get water necessities you know could a tackle box so again we're talking about height that's the issue I mean I can probably like it's not like the end of the world so I can get something that's half the height if that makes her happy I want me I want to make the neighbors happy it's not like that big of a deal for me so and I didn't know I needed a permit for like one of those kind of structures so it's not a permanent structure it's just kind of one of those I don't have a problem with switching it to make her happy I can exchange numbers with her because she lives across the street and I want to make sure yeah profile jump in it yeah so a lot of people now are using these

76. 1:33:45

    whatnot screening the shed is the same so I have the same issue is she's talking about how she doesn't have that view so if we make him screen any of it we're going to more limit the view right yeah because again this very unique circumstance before I purchased the property I I mean I spent a lot of money on landscaping but before I purchased it you couldn't see the lake it was pretty much blocked off like all trees the fence you couldn't barely see it was all like vines grown on it so I cleaned it so you can actually see the lake so so what is the need for the shed I mean I have a I have a pontoon boat a couple jet skis yeah just get water necessities you know could a tackle box so again we're talking about height that's the issue I mean I can probably like it's not like the end of the world so I can get something that's half the height if that makes her happy I want me I want to make the neighbors happy it's not like that big of a deal for me so and I didn't know I needed a permit for like one of those kind of structures so it's not a permanent structure it's just kind of one of those I don't have a problem with switching it to make her happy I can exchange numbers with her because she lives across the street and I want to make sure yeah profile jump in it yeah so a lot of people now are using these out outdoor storage boxes next to their deck or whatever you know maybe like three or four feet tall or whatever and they're deep and they hold a lot of stuff maybe something like that one or two of them next to each other that wouldn't really impinge the view in any way and I think that's reasonable that you've got an opportunity to store some stuff yeah on your property without you know inconveniencing your neighbors yeah honestly I don't have a problem with that if that's if that would make them happy it's not a big deal for me so I just want to make sure I can replace the fence because I felt like that wasn't safe when people walked by someone could like the door doesn't even shut so what you described it is more of like a deck box right so that you wouldn't necessarily need approval for a deck box would he well I guess I'd be I am a little careful to make you that assessment based on the fact that I'm not 100% sure what his ultimate proposal would be. Right, so I don't want to direct the board to say, do something that may or may not result in needing to come back here. So we're open to that. I mean, if it's hidden from the road, I mean, I can go like half the height, and that's not a problem.

77. 1:35:00

    make sure yeah profile jump in it yeah so a lot of people now are using these out outdoor storage boxes next to their deck or whatever you know maybe like three or four feet tall or whatever and they're deep and they hold a lot of stuff maybe something like that one or two of them next to each other that wouldn't really impinge the view in any way and I think that's reasonable that you've got an opportunity to store some stuff yeah on your property without you know inconveniencing your neighbors yeah honestly I don't have a problem with that if that's if that would make them happy it's not a big deal for me so I just want to make sure I can replace the fence because I felt like that wasn't safe when people walked by someone could like the door doesn't even shut so what you described it is more of like a deck box right so that you wouldn't necessarily need approval for a deck box would he well I guess I'd be I am a little careful to make you that assessment based on the fact that I'm not 100% sure what his ultimate proposal would be. Right, so I don't want to direct the board to say, do something that may or may not result in needing to come back here. So we're open to that. I mean, if it's hidden from the road, I mean, I can go like half the height, and that's not a problem. So are you okay with removing the structure because of the height? I'll remove that, and I'll just bring something that's half the height. That you won't be able to see. And actually, if she's the one who lives across the street, I don't have a problem with giving her my number and having her okay. That would be great. Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. So we're going to deny that request for the shed. For the shed. Now, what about the fence? It's a better fence. It looks like the one next to it is four feet. We're going to go at the same exact height, and we measured it twice because, you know, they're all the same exact height all the way across. I asked the other neighbors if they want to replace them, but they don't. Can we just make the motion to match the height of this? Yeah, just wanted to match. All right. And then are we going to make a color? What color is the other neighbor's fences? They're all rusted. So I was just going to go with the brand new. Don't need to match the rust color. I was going to go black only because they don't have lost their, like, coated, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

78. 1:36:15

    I mean, if it's hidden from the road, I mean, I can go like half the height, and that's not a problem. So are you okay with removing the structure because of the height? I'll remove that, and I'll just bring something that's half the height. That you won't be able to see. And actually, if she's the one who lives across the street, I don't have a problem with giving her my number and having her okay. That would be great. Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. So we're going to deny that request for the shed. For the shed. Now, what about the fence? It's a better fence. It looks like the one next to it is four feet. We're going to go at the same exact height, and we measured it twice because, you know, they're all the same exact height all the way across. I asked the other neighbors if they want to replace them, but they don't. Can we just make the motion to match the height of this? Yeah, just wanted to match. All right. And then are we going to make a color? What color is the other neighbor's fences? They're all rusted. So I was just going to go with the brand new. Don't need to match the rust color. I was going to go black only because they don't have lost their, like, coated, you know? Yeah. Yeah. what yeah yeah what are you what are you holding a picture up there oh i see okay okay so yeah so you make it okay i'd like to make a motion sure with regard to the appeal at um lot number 19-17-276-016 for the i'm going to go with the permission request first um i move the request be denied as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did not demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards due to the uh the use of accessory structure is inappropriate to the neighborhood as it is a hindrance and discouragement of the neighbor's view of the lake and um with this part if denied the motion must include uh the existing side to be removed within 60 days from the approval of today's meeting minutes on top of that i'm going to add a add to this motion for the dimensional variance of the forfeit high fence for for it to as as proposed as we just discussed here to match the existing neighbor

79. 1:37:30

    what yeah yeah what are you what are you holding a picture up there oh i see okay okay so yeah so you make it okay i'd like to make a motion sure with regard to the appeal at um lot number 19-17-276-016 for the i'm going to go with the permission request first um i move the request be denied as submitted based on the information presented the applicant did not demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards due to the uh the use of accessory structure is inappropriate to the neighborhood as it is a hindrance and discouragement of the neighbor's view of the lake and um with this part if denied the motion must include uh the existing side to be removed within 60 days from the approval of today's meeting minutes on top of that i'm going to add a add to this motion for the dimensional variance of the forfeit high fence for for it to as as proposed as we just discussed here to match the existing neighbor fences i move that that motion be um approved as revised based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict lettered ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact that this is a you know lakeside lot and there is no injustice to the joining neighbors by reason that there are other fences that are similar and we're just looking to match that unique circumstances with this property have been demonstrated once again that it is a lake frontage and as a result is not self created so with this part of the motion if approved it must include application for necessary permits to be made within five business days for the existing fence no I'm sorry application for necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the fence and what do we decide about evergreen plantings here with the fence support and I'd like to add something to that with respect to the height of the fence to meet the height of the neighbor's fence but not to exceed five feet okay that sounds good all right so is everybody clear because this is a bit unusual I think we discussed you know both both these

80. 1:38:45

    forfeit high fence for for it to as as proposed as we just discussed here to match the existing neighbor fences i move that that motion be um approved as revised based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict lettered ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact that this is a you know lakeside lot and there is no injustice to the joining neighbors by reason that there are other fences that are similar and we're just looking to match that unique circumstances with this property have been demonstrated once again that it is a lake frontage and as a result is not self created so with this part of the motion if approved it must include application for necessary permits to be made within five business days for the existing fence no I'm sorry application for necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the fence and what do we decide about evergreen plantings here with the fence support and I'd like to add something to that with respect to the height of the fence to meet the height of the neighbor's fence but not to exceed five feet okay that sounds good all right so is everybody clear because this is a bit unusual I think we discussed you know both both these results so I think everybody's clear and and you're in agreement with it which we really appreciate I'm fine believe me when we put it up we just wanted to put our stuff in there that we don't use okay thank you for your cooperative nature Mr. Chair you've got support as amended all right so all those in favor of the bundle that we've put together say aye aye any opposed so both of your so one of your request is denied one is granted as you wished so it was really kind of worked out in advance thank you so much yeah good for you so we're calling the next item item 3p 4955 Stoneland good evening my name is Jason Kamser I represent Brian and Vanessa Vantage who are sitting here in the room this evening we also have Sabrina from Osher and I have a couple representatives here from great eggs great oaks excuse me landscape we're here for permission to approve a 30 by 60 sports court which was submitted prior to the issuance of the

81. 1:40:00

    because this is a bit unusual I think we discussed you know both both these results so I think everybody's clear and and you're in agreement with it which we really appreciate I'm fine believe me when we put it up we just wanted to put our stuff in there that we don't use okay thank you for your cooperative nature Mr. Chair you've got support as amended all right so all those in favor of the bundle that we've put together say aye aye any opposed so both of your so one of your request is denied one is granted as you wished so it was really kind of worked out in advance thank you so much yeah good for you so we're calling the next item item 3p 4955 Stoneland good evening my name is Jason Kamser I represent Brian and Vanessa Vantage who are sitting here in the room this evening we also have Sabrina from Osher and I have a couple representatives here from great eggs great oaks excuse me landscape we're here for permission to approve a 30 by 60 sports court which was submitted prior to the issuance of the moratorium along with an eight-foot safety netting around that court I will note that this is part of a larger plan that was previously approved the sports court is in a now proposed different location as part of that original approval there was civil engineering done regarding the grading of the property water flow so the the water issues have all already been addressed as part of this original plan the Vantage's live at this property with their two boys they're eight in four years old they've designed this new location in a place that's safe for the children. They're able to see the children when they're inside the house, play on the sports court. There's no electrical on the sports court. There's no speakers on the sports court. There's no lighting on the sports court. It's only to be used during daylight hours. Since they've installed their pool and their cabana, which were approved, there have been no noise complaints or other issues from the neighbors.

82. 1:41:15

    approve a 30 by 60 sports court which was submitted prior to the issuance of the moratorium along with an eight-foot safety netting around that court I will note that this is part of a larger plan that was previously approved the sports court is in a now proposed different location as part of that original approval there was civil engineering done regarding the grading of the property water flow so the the water issues have all already been addressed as part of this original plan the Vantage's live at this property with their two boys they're eight in four years old they've designed this new location in a place that's safe for the children. They're able to see the children when they're inside the house, play on the sports court. There's no electrical on the sports court. There's no speakers on the sports court. There's no lighting on the sports court. It's only to be used during daylight hours. Since they've installed their pool and their cabana, which were approved, there have been no noise complaints or other issues from the neighbors. We believe this is a low density, customary request. As the township knows, there's been a whole lot of sports courts previously approved, including one of the neighbors at 4989 Stonely, who is here as well. They have a 30 by 60 foot court with six foot netting, which is in the same general vicinity. So we believe that having the two courts and the general side will lessen impact on other neighbors as well. But we believe that this request is also customary with 60 by 30 courts that were approved on Bradford, on Shoneth, on Old Orchard, similar one at 57 foot by 30 was on Cimarron. A 70 by 35 was approved on Heron Ridge Drive. We have one on Harsdale, Snowshoe Circle, Cherokee Lane, and a smaller one on Oak Hills Drive. The proposed location is set up in specify. which is up there meets all setback requirements it's located at grade and it's oriented inward at a point much further away from the nearest northerly neighbor it's also much farther from the neighbor than most other requests that

83. 1:42:30

    We believe this is a low density, customary request. As the township knows, there's been a whole lot of sports courts previously approved, including one of the neighbors at 4989 Stonely, who is here as well. They have a 30 by 60 foot court with six foot netting, which is in the same general vicinity. So we believe that having the two courts and the general side will lessen impact on other neighbors as well. But we believe that this request is also customary with 60 by 30 courts that were approved on Bradford, on Shoneth, on Old Orchard, similar one at 57 foot by 30 was on Cimarron. A 70 by 35 was approved on Heron Ridge Drive. We have one on Harsdale, Snowshoe Circle, Cherokee Lane, and a smaller one on Oak Hills Drive. The proposed location is set up in specify. which is up there meets all setback requirements it's located at grade and it's oriented inward at a point much further away from the nearest northerly neighbor it's also much farther from the neighbor than most other requests that have been brought before motion as well in terms of disturbance between the sports court and other structures in regards to the fencing we believe that this need is not self-created but it's this necessary in order to keep the balls on the court avoid errant bounces avoid young children especially running off the court chasing those balls and you know issues that could arise from there we believe it has a functional necessity that's tied directly to the safety and it's reasonable with the recreational uses this board has approved in the past you know these the fantasies are really good neighbors I can I can vouch for the fact that I have a relative who has a autistic son who lives in that neighborhood and he loves bouncing the ball on sports courts and he you know he's looking forward to being able to use their sports court when this is approved in addition there's going to be substantial screening by a trees we're proposing an additional 17 12-foot black hill spruce or techni arborvitae correct me if I'm misstating these and 26 wintergreen arborvitae hedges that will form a 12-foot hedge

84. 1:43:45

    neighbor it's also much farther from the neighbor than most other requests that have been brought before motion as well in terms of disturbance between the sports court and other structures in regards to the fencing we believe that this need is not self-created but it's this necessary in order to keep the balls on the court avoid errant bounces avoid young children especially running off the court chasing those balls and you know issues that could arise from there we believe it has a functional necessity that's tied directly to the safety and it's reasonable with the recreational uses this board has approved in the past you know these the fantasies are really good neighbors I can I can vouch for the fact that I have a relative who has a autistic son who lives in that neighborhood and he loves bouncing the ball on sports courts and he you know he's looking forward to being able to use their sports court when this is approved in addition there's going to be substantial screening by a trees we're proposing an additional 17 12-foot black hill spruce or techni arborvitae correct me if I'm misstating these and 26 wintergreen arborvitae hedges that will form a 12-foot hedge around there so they'll be substantial screening from the neighbors we believe based on the location the screening that there'll be no injustice to the neighbors and as I mentioned I know one of the board members stepped out for a second there'll be no issues with water because it's already been the property's already been reviewed by a civil engineer with that I'm happy to answer any questions so go back to the 2022 approval so just everybody knows there originally that location was approved correct sure I was intentionally skipped over the history but I'll go through a little yeah why don't you just do that because I think that's an important context sure in 2022 an entire backyard plan was approved and include a sports court which is highlighted there in yellow and had a cabana it had a pool after approval the construction team installed it in the if I got my directions right I think that's the northerly corner if you go to the next slide it's shown on the next slide

85. 1:45:00

    around there so they'll be substantial screening from the neighbors we believe based on the location the screening that there'll be no injustice to the neighbors and as I mentioned I know one of the board members stepped out for a second there'll be no issues with water because it's already been the property's already been reviewed by a civil engineer with that I'm happy to answer any questions so go back to the 2022 approval so just everybody knows there originally that location was approved correct sure I was intentionally skipped over the history but I'll go through a little yeah why don't you just do that because I think that's an important context sure in 2022 an entire backyard plan was approved and include a sports court which is highlighted there in yellow and had a cabana it had a pool after approval the construction team installed it in the if I got my directions right I think that's the northerly corner if you go to the next slide it's shown on the next slide yeah and that's where it was actually installed it met all setback requirements but during the hearing requesting that it was denied so were the homeowners present I think that's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the when the construction was going on with the sports court i mean they lived in the house they lived there okay yeah they lived there and there so they saw it being built in that location i just want to make sure you understand they saw it being built in that location and the people building it their their builders represented to them that they didn't think that they needed to come back here because it met all setback requirements okay um unfortunately we ended up in court over that issue um unbeknownst to us at that time there was also a green card that had been issued by the township there was an inspector actually approved that location if you go to the next slide uh in the next location i'm sorry go back that one uh inspector actually approved it as part of the overall inspection so that also added to the belief that hey this was an acceptable location um we altered the plans reoriented it 90 degrees moved it a little bit um but wait a minute wasn't didn't this then this was denied then so then then uh you came so after

86. 1:46:15

    right I think that's the northerly corner if you go to the next slide it's shown on the next slide yeah and that's where it was actually installed it met all setback requirements but during the hearing requesting that it was denied so were the homeowners present I think that's the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the when the construction was going on with the sports court i mean they lived in the house they lived there okay yeah they lived there and there so they saw it being built in that location i just want to make sure you understand they saw it being built in that location and the people building it their their builders represented to them that they didn't think that they needed to come back here because it met all setback requirements okay um unfortunately we ended up in court over that issue um unbeknownst to us at that time there was also a green card that had been issued by the township there was an inspector actually approved that location if you go to the next slide uh in the next location i'm sorry go back that one uh inspector actually approved it as part of the overall inspection so that also added to the belief that hey this was an acceptable location um we altered the plans reoriented it 90 degrees moved it a little bit um but wait a minute wasn't didn't this then this was denied then so then then uh you came so after after it was uh built in the in in the application other than what was approved you you came before us and that was denied correct okay and then like i said parties unfortunately ended up in court and there was a court order stating that the board has to record so that it's better than so so you're here by court order so you're here correct okay so and now the only difference in the request today from where it was built that it's it's sort of turned is that right correct it's gonna I mean it's going to be turned I mean the current court will have to be ripped out in a new court installed yeah and you know just for clarity we're not seeking a hardship waiver as to the location of the cost of tearing it out or anything else and we're asking the board to consider this as a new request you know similar that's why you flipped it so what what's wrong with the original location why well I think there's a couple things number one from inside the house you can't see it okay it's harder to see the kids playing on the court from there that's number one number two it's also closer to the neighbor hold on

87. 1:47:30

    um but wait a minute wasn't didn't this then this was denied then so then then uh you came so after after it was uh built in the in in the application other than what was approved you you came before us and that was denied correct okay and then like i said parties unfortunately ended up in court and there was a court order stating that the board has to record so that it's better than so so you're here by court order so you're here correct okay so and now the only difference in the request today from where it was built that it's it's sort of turned is that right correct it's gonna I mean it's going to be turned I mean the current court will have to be ripped out in a new court installed yeah and you know just for clarity we're not seeking a hardship waiver as to the location of the cost of tearing it out or anything else and we're asking the board to consider this as a new request you know similar that's why you flipped it so what what's wrong with the original location why well I think there's a couple things number one from inside the house you can't see it okay it's harder to see the kids playing on the court from there that's number one number two it's also closer to the neighbor hold on wasn't this the original didn't the homeowner originally request this location wasn't that their idea well it was a design that was offered by their design consultant and it was one that they believed was okay a reasonable design and then during the course of construction their their team said hey you know we think it would be better over here you've got some difficult facts so I I'm just no I understand that and they're important to go through yeah you know but again the boards to look at this as a fresh application so that's why I kind of skipped over it but I'm happy that we're talking about it yeah because the design team said hey look at it makes a whole lot more sense you know the neighbor that fronts losser this is you know it's less it's gonna be less visual to them it's farther away from their house it's more visually it's it just flows better and now we got a neighbor here at three four nine eight nine who's gonna have a basketball court over here so now instead of having you know two basketball courts on complete opposite sides we have them so succinctly give us the reason why the location you're proposing today is better than what was approved just give me your bullet point why is this location better for your clients and why should we

88. 1:48:45

    there that's number one number two it's also closer to the neighbor hold on wasn't this the original didn't the homeowner originally request this location wasn't that their idea well it was a design that was offered by their design consultant and it was one that they believed was okay a reasonable design and then during the course of construction their their team said hey you know we think it would be better over here you've got some difficult facts so I I'm just no I understand that and they're important to go through yeah you know but again the boards to look at this as a fresh application so that's why I kind of skipped over it but I'm happy that we're talking about it yeah because the design team said hey look at it makes a whole lot more sense you know the neighbor that fronts losser this is you know it's less it's gonna be less visual to them it's farther away from their house it's more visually it's it just flows better and now we got a neighbor here at three four nine eight nine who's gonna have a basketball court over here so now instead of having you know two basketball courts on complete opposite sides we have them so succinctly give us the reason why the location you're proposing today is better than what was approved just give me your bullet point why is this location better for your clients and why should we ignore the fact that we already denied something that's in the same spot we approved one that's in a completely different spot and now you're here in front of us again well I would say number one this is to be looked at as if it is a brand new application regardless of what was built or what was previously approved so I think we have to start out the court order says yeah tell me so you appealed it to the circuit court we have the circuit court rule and you had to consider this application as a new application because when we some so there was two issues in front of the court number one it was an appeal of the denial for the court in this general vicinity court upheld your determination that that that you didn't have to approve that correct okay okay however we submitted an alternative design this one and the original detachment said we're not going to hear it court said no you are required to hear as a new application so it's a new application it doesn't matter what was built it doesn't matter what was approved or denied it's like any other sports court coming front of you you have to consider it whether or not this

89. 1:50:00

    bullet point why is this location better for your clients and why should we ignore the fact that we already denied something that's in the same spot we approved one that's in a completely different spot and now you're here in front of us again well I would say number one this is to be looked at as if it is a brand new application regardless of what was built or what was previously approved so I think we have to start out the court order says yeah tell me so you appealed it to the circuit court we have the circuit court rule and you had to consider this application as a new application because when we some so there was two issues in front of the court number one it was an appeal of the denial for the court in this general vicinity court upheld your determination that that that you didn't have to approve that correct okay okay however we submitted an alternative design this one and the original detachment said we're not going to hear it court said no you are required to hear as a new application so it's a new application it doesn't matter what was built it doesn't matter what was approved or denied it's like any other sports court coming front of you you have to consider it whether or not this design okay is appropriate well knowing that we have a moratorium you know going to look at this whole issue because these sports courts have continued to grow over time and knowing that we previously approved a 30 by 50 why did you grow 10 feet well it allows for two basketball nets I mean look they're not playing five on five these are four years the four-year-old and an eight-year-old but it allows for a more appropriately sized court and it also it aligns more with what this board has approved historically for you know a number of different well you know I guess I'm I'm not happy adding ten feet on to it okay well but again we're looking at a it is a brand new application regardless of what was in front of here you would know that I don't like them this big okay I'm being pretty consistent here so just something to keep in mind if you're willing to reduce the size at all I can certainly talk to my clients I know

90. 1:51:15

    sports court coming front of you you have to consider it whether or not this design okay is appropriate well knowing that we have a moratorium you know going to look at this whole issue because these sports courts have continued to grow over time and knowing that we previously approved a 30 by 50 why did you grow 10 feet well it allows for two basketball nets I mean look they're not playing five on five these are four years the four-year-old and an eight-year-old but it allows for a more appropriately sized court and it also it aligns more with what this board has approved historically for you know a number of different well you know I guess I'm I'm not happy adding ten feet on to it okay well but again we're looking at a it is a brand new application regardless of what was in front of here you would know that I don't like them this big okay I'm being pretty consistent here so just something to keep in mind if you're willing to reduce the size at all I can certainly talk to my clients I know They're sitting here, and if they want to come up and address that, you know. Well, why don't, let's just see if there's any other, so is there anything else you'd like to say? I didn't mean to. No, no, no. Well, so again, we're looking at this. This is useful history. No, no. So, and in regards to the moratorium, we were back in the court, and I think there was a 14 or 15 month delay from when the court ordered that the township set this from hearing to when this was originally scheduled. Back in December, we had a conflict. We asked for it to be set in February. I should strike that. It was noticed improperly in December, so it had to be. Hey, you're here now. Right, so we're here now. But when we're talking about the moratorium, part of the delay in coming back here had to do with all this. I just want to. No, no, that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's not an issue. But again, this location, it's furthest from the neighbors. It's at a place that requires the least amount of grading. Water flow will be least impacted here. It's visually aesthetic. It fits with the entire design of the entire backyard. And it's a safest area where the Vantage's can see their kids when they're inside. Okay. And the kids are on the court. Any other questions?

91. 1:52:30

    They're sitting here, and if they want to come up and address that, you know. Well, why don't, let's just see if there's any other, so is there anything else you'd like to say? I didn't mean to. No, no, no. Well, so again, we're looking at this. This is useful history. No, no. So, and in regards to the moratorium, we were back in the court, and I think there was a 14 or 15 month delay from when the court ordered that the township set this from hearing to when this was originally scheduled. Back in December, we had a conflict. We asked for it to be set in February. I should strike that. It was noticed improperly in December, so it had to be. Hey, you're here now. Right, so we're here now. But when we're talking about the moratorium, part of the delay in coming back here had to do with all this. I just want to. No, no, that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's not an issue. But again, this location, it's furthest from the neighbors. It's at a place that requires the least amount of grading. Water flow will be least impacted here. It's visually aesthetic. It fits with the entire design of the entire backyard. And it's a safest area where the Vantage's can see their kids when they're inside. Okay. And the kids are on the court. Any other questions? Not right now. I'd like to open this to the public. I'd like to speak on this item. Please come up and give your name and address. Yes, Lord. Just that. When the pool was built back in June 2023, after being approved in 2022, no screening was put in. Back in January 2024, when we had the other ZBE meeting about two years ago, still no screening. And today, March 2026, just about a week ago, no screening. Even though the applicant had, of course, committed that he would perform, can we go to the next slide, screening, as you can see, this is from 2022, close to four years ago, when he committed to put the necessary screening, none of that has been done. And I understand that he wouldn't want to do that as part of the sports cause is concerned, which is on the left of that picture. Maybe you can go back to the prior picture. On the left, you don't see it here, or you see maybe a little glimpse is where the sports court is. So we are exposed to a lot of this, you know, recreational, or what you want to call it, outdoors area. And again, I understand you want to postpone the screening of the sports

92. 1:53:45

    Any other questions? Not right now. I'd like to open this to the public. I'd like to speak on this item. Please come up and give your name and address. Yes, Lord. Just that. When the pool was built back in June 2023, after being approved in 2022, no screening was put in. Back in January 2024, when we had the other ZBE meeting about two years ago, still no screening. And today, March 2026, just about a week ago, no screening. Even though the applicant had, of course, committed that he would perform, can we go to the next slide, screening, as you can see, this is from 2022, close to four years ago, when he committed to put the necessary screening, none of that has been done. And I understand that he wouldn't want to do that as part of the sports cause is concerned, which is on the left of that picture. Maybe you can go back to the prior picture. On the left, you don't see it here, or you see maybe a little glimpse is where the sports court is. So we are exposed to a lot of this, you know, recreational, or what you want to call it, outdoors area. And again, I understand you want to postpone the screening of the sports court, but I understand why I didn't proceed with the screening of the rest of the property, the pergola, the cabana, as you were supposed to. So let's go back to the second slide, if you don't mind. The main question here is, let's go to the third slide, I'm so sorry. Is this proposal any better than what we had before? Is it better than what was approved 2022? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? So maybe it's a new approval, I mean a new, I understand, proposal, but at the same time I'm wondering why indeed that one wouldn't work, and is this one any better? One of the issues we had about the proposal that was denied in 2024 is that it wasn't screened properly. And so what I see today in fact is even worse in terms of screening than what was there in 2024. The reason is that both in 22 and in 24 at least the homeowner was proposing large spruce trees that would be staggered. In fact one of the reasons it was denied in 2024 is that there was not enough space in the back of that court to place those staggered trees. Today's, if you go to the next slide please, when we look at, I don't know how much you

93. 1:55:00

    outdoors area. And again, I understand you want to postpone the screening of the sports court, but I understand why I didn't proceed with the screening of the rest of the property, the pergola, the cabana, as you were supposed to. So let's go back to the second slide, if you don't mind. The main question here is, let's go to the third slide, I'm so sorry. Is this proposal any better than what we had before? Is it better than what was approved 2022? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? Is it better than what we had before? So maybe it's a new approval, I mean a new, I understand, proposal, but at the same time I'm wondering why indeed that one wouldn't work, and is this one any better? One of the issues we had about the proposal that was denied in 2024 is that it wasn't screened properly. And so what I see today in fact is even worse in terms of screening than what was there in 2024. The reason is that both in 22 and in 24 at least the homeowner was proposing large spruce trees that would be staggered. In fact one of the reasons it was denied in 2024 is that there was not enough space in the back of that court to place those staggered trees. Today's, if you go to the next slide please, when we look at, I don't know how much you can see there, but the homeowner is proposing trees first of all on the top left side there, you can see that there are staggers trees, but he proposed what is called technic cedars, which grow only 12 feet tall. We are, as you might know or not, I don't know, we are elevated compared to that property which is different than for example the neighbor. And so we are about 12, 15 feet at the first floor. I am not speaking about second floor or anything, the first floor, so those technic trees wouldn't do anything to us. The other trees I am proposing are Black Hill spruce, they grow only 6 inches a year, they are a very slow grower, and again there would be essentially no staggering things, the smaller trees wouldn't. and do enough to offer the screening that we need. When it comes to the winter green hedge, you see there on the side, right, by the proposed sports court, those are even more narrow, and I heard that they grow to 12 feet, I think you said, the winter hedge, which I don't know how that is kind of, any kind of screening provide for us. The issue is, while the homeowner rotated the court, which I appreciate considering that, he has not changed the issue of the lack of spacing

94. 1:56:15

    Today's, if you go to the next slide please, when we look at, I don't know how much you can see there, but the homeowner is proposing trees first of all on the top left side there, you can see that there are staggers trees, but he proposed what is called technic cedars, which grow only 12 feet tall. We are, as you might know or not, I don't know, we are elevated compared to that property which is different than for example the neighbor. And so we are about 12, 15 feet at the first floor. I am not speaking about second floor or anything, the first floor, so those technic trees wouldn't do anything to us. The other trees I am proposing are Black Hill spruce, they grow only 6 inches a year, they are a very slow grower, and again there would be essentially no staggering things, the smaller trees wouldn't. and do enough to offer the screening that we need. When it comes to the winter green hedge, you see there on the side, right, by the proposed sports court, those are even more narrow, and I heard that they grow to 12 feet, I think you said, the winter hedge, which I don't know how that is kind of, any kind of screening provide for us. The issue is, while the homeowner rotated the court, which I appreciate considering that, he has not changed the issue of the lack of spacing around the court, and that's why he's now in a position where he can't put those tagger trees, in other words, we're in the same situation we were last time, three years ago, where there is not enough space to put the necessary screening. The other thing also to notice is that, for example, on the north, on the top there, northwest side, if we go back to a few slides back, if you don't mind, no, that one. On the very left, you see that they used to be, no, sorry, I'm showing you the wrong drawing, I'm sorry, go forward, I'm so sorry. This one, this is what was approved in 2022, no, I'm confusing in drawing, I'm trying to go as quickly as possible, but let's jump to that one. The other thing that the new drawing doesn't show, you see the black line there? That is actually a fence, and you can see a picture on the right of that fence, which is somewhere between six feet and 10 feet from the back lot line. Okay, so- So, So in the drawings that the homeowner is presenting right now, there's not even any mentioning of that fence. So I have no idea if those trees would be behind a fence, in the front of it. I have no idea. Can you go back to the prior picture? You see here, there's no indication of any fence whatsoever.

95. 1:57:30

    he has not changed the issue of the lack of spacing around the court, and that's why he's now in a position where he can't put those tagger trees, in other words, we're in the same situation we were last time, three years ago, where there is not enough space to put the necessary screening. The other thing also to notice is that, for example, on the north, on the top there, northwest side, if we go back to a few slides back, if you don't mind, no, that one. On the very left, you see that they used to be, no, sorry, I'm showing you the wrong drawing, I'm sorry, go forward, I'm so sorry. This one, this is what was approved in 2022, no, I'm confusing in drawing, I'm trying to go as quickly as possible, but let's jump to that one. The other thing that the new drawing doesn't show, you see the black line there? That is actually a fence, and you can see a picture on the right of that fence, which is somewhere between six feet and 10 feet from the back lot line. Okay, so- So, So in the drawings that the homeowner is presenting right now, there's not even any mentioning of that fence. So I have no idea if those trees would be behind a fence, in the front of it. I have no idea. Can you go back to the prior picture? You see here, there's no indication of any fence whatsoever. What they call to be the fence actually is a lot line. So practically spoken, what they're proposing here, A, would not offer enough screening and B, cannot even be implemented as is because it doesn't show things like what is the mix of those trees, the little trees versus the big ones. What about the fence? On which side of the fence where you're going to put this? So that's definitely the issue about the screening. The next thing I want to speak about is just the justification for location of this place. I have not heard any compelling evidence of why it needs to be there compared to where it was originally approved, where there's much more space, by the way, to do the proper screening. As you can see, for example, I think I mentioned already, on the northwest side, there is no screening proposed. So that neighbor on that side somehow was the first proposal in 2022, and even the one in 2024 was offering screening. Somehow that screening is gone. I don't know why. Even though from that point of view, the court over there is much more appropriate because maybe this time we can go back to that slide over there. On the left, there are the June 2022 approved. You can see there are trees around also that side.

96. 1:58:45

    You see here, there's no indication of any fence whatsoever. What they call to be the fence actually is a lot line. So practically spoken, what they're proposing here, A, would not offer enough screening and B, cannot even be implemented as is because it doesn't show things like what is the mix of those trees, the little trees versus the big ones. What about the fence? On which side of the fence where you're going to put this? So that's definitely the issue about the screening. The next thing I want to speak about is just the justification for location of this place. I have not heard any compelling evidence of why it needs to be there compared to where it was originally approved, where there's much more space, by the way, to do the proper screening. As you can see, for example, I think I mentioned already, on the northwest side, there is no screening proposed. So that neighbor on that side somehow was the first proposal in 2022, and even the one in 2024 was offering screening. Somehow that screening is gone. I don't know why. Even though from that point of view, the court over there is much more appropriate because maybe this time we can go back to that slide over there. On the left, there are the June 2022 approved. You can see there are trees around also that side. the northwestern side, and you can see that the coal being further away from the lot line and the fence, there is more space to put the necessary trees to perform the staggering effect that we are speaking about, including the pool area and all that. Let's move to the next slide, next one again. So the question, of course, we've been wondering is why is it that there is such a compelling reason to put the coal there, for, as I mentioned, it's not screened properly, especially considering the high and the fact that it's so close to the lot line and there is a fence. One reason, of course, is that maybe they don't like it where it was originally, which was close to their front, but that means you can see there the yellow where it was approved is right next to the fence in the front of their parking area there or driveway, but now they want us to deal with that because in our case, our house is very close to that new location location, and definitely that sports court is quite closer to the front and the side, and you saw also even the back, than the sports court of the other neighbor. I don't know why one would say that they are roughly in the same location compared to us. That's simply not the case. But here's another thing that's quite interesting to notice. So I'm saying that's one reason why they might want to put the court in that corner because

97. 2:00:00

    the northwestern side, and you can see that the coal being further away from the lot line and the fence, there is more space to put the necessary trees to perform the staggering effect that we are speaking about, including the pool area and all that. Let's move to the next slide, next one again. So the question, of course, we've been wondering is why is it that there is such a compelling reason to put the coal there, for, as I mentioned, it's not screened properly, especially considering the high and the fact that it's so close to the lot line and there is a fence. One reason, of course, is that maybe they don't like it where it was originally, which was close to their front, but that means you can see there the yellow where it was approved is right next to the fence in the front of their parking area there or driveway, but now they want us to deal with that because in our case, our house is very close to that new location location, and definitely that sports court is quite closer to the front and the side, and you saw also even the back, than the sports court of the other neighbor. I don't know why one would say that they are roughly in the same location compared to us. That's simply not the case. But here's another thing that's quite interesting to notice. So I'm saying that's one reason why they might want to put the court in that corner because they don't want to have to deal with it at their front, but they want us to deal with it at the front. The next thing that is quite interesting, and let's go to the next slide, if you don't mind, is we spoke about the sports court having indeed two hoops, yet… In the application that they presented this time again, you see it at the bottom, it's highlighted. They again were showing a single hoop, which they have done now three times, the exact same drawing, as if to say that's what the sport's going to be. I appreciate that at least we recognize, in fact, it's not one hoop, it's actually two hoops. So we're not speaking about simple gaming like they mentioned in the application. This is, I can't read from here, but I think they mentioned that it is comparable to regular outdoor activities. It is no, our children's playing. It is two teams that would be playing against one another, which is obviously quite more noisy. But there's another thing that I discovered after, in fact, the last meeting. It was my son, in fact, who pointed to it. You see those white lines there on the court? You know what it is? That's pickleball. So here's someone who stands in front of us, is again claiming nothing about what really the sport's call is all about. He's admitting about the hoops, but the pickleball is clearly there. Of course they haven't played yet. They said there have not been any complaints.

98. 2:01:15

    So I'm saying that's one reason why they might want to put the court in that corner because they don't want to have to deal with it at their front, but they want us to deal with it at the front. The next thing that is quite interesting, and let's go to the next slide, if you don't mind, is we spoke about the sports court having indeed two hoops, yet… In the application that they presented this time again, you see it at the bottom, it's highlighted. They again were showing a single hoop, which they have done now three times, the exact same drawing, as if to say that's what the sport's going to be. I appreciate that at least we recognize, in fact, it's not one hoop, it's actually two hoops. So we're not speaking about simple gaming like they mentioned in the application. This is, I can't read from here, but I think they mentioned that it is comparable to regular outdoor activities. It is no, our children's playing. It is two teams that would be playing against one another, which is obviously quite more noisy. But there's another thing that I discovered after, in fact, the last meeting. It was my son, in fact, who pointed to it. You see those white lines there on the court? You know what it is? That's pickleball. So here's someone who stands in front of us, is again claiming nothing about what really the sport's call is all about. He's admitting about the hoops, but the pickleball is clearly there. Of course they haven't played yet. They said there have not been any complaints. A, I understand that we're not supposed to play there in the first place because of the appeal process. Secondly, of course they are not going to play pickleball when obviously they are not divulging the fact that there is a pickleball there. Do you have any issue with the original location that was approved in 2022? No. Okay. Anything else? Well, one more thing is that coordinate is 50 feet, which means there's a lot of pickleball. Yes. 3060 is required for pickleball. I have a few other things, but I don't think I need to go, unless you want me. I think you've got to just put it in a minute. I think we have the adjustment because as you're speaking I think I think you came with your wife originally in the back there yeah she came in the first hearing and so this is coming back to me now so I remember this okay okay does anybody have any questions yeah remember them too thank you very much okay is there anyone else would like to speak on this hello everyone this is a Jason sit to four nine eight nine it's only I'm the Jason neighbor to the south just wanted to mention I mean the sport court is there I know he was speaking of putting the hedging and the green the green fencing and he was waiting to do that because you know he didn't know how this was gonna

99. 2:02:30

    They said there have not been any complaints. A, I understand that we're not supposed to play there in the first place because of the appeal process. Secondly, of course they are not going to play pickleball when obviously they are not divulging the fact that there is a pickleball there. Do you have any issue with the original location that was approved in 2022? No. Okay. Anything else? Well, one more thing is that coordinate is 50 feet, which means there's a lot of pickleball. Yes. 3060 is required for pickleball. I have a few other things, but I don't think I need to go, unless you want me. I think you've got to just put it in a minute. I think we have the adjustment because as you're speaking I think I think you came with your wife originally in the back there yeah she came in the first hearing and so this is coming back to me now so I remember this okay okay does anybody have any questions yeah remember them too thank you very much okay is there anyone else would like to speak on this hello everyone this is a Jason sit to four nine eight nine it's only I'm the Jason neighbor to the south just wanted to mention I mean the sport court is there I know he was speaking of putting the hedging and the green the green fencing and he was waiting to do that because you know he didn't know how this was gonna play out so he didn't want to spend no money on that and he did promise to put that fencing around there I don't have a problem with where he wants to put the front of the sport court where it currently is how he wants to place it now so that's the only comment I have really I mean I really don't have a problem with it and I'm the closest one to him so it's up to you guys what you guys decide so which house is yours on the I'm the directly adjacent to them south side okay all right thank you very much anyone else would like to speak on this so hold on the public hearing isn't over yet sorry this is the homeowner freeze and there could be it at its current location there could be trees on both sides of the fences we saw a picture from the homeowner's house that went right back and i wish it was still here but we saw it went right back to see the pool and in that line you would see the sports court in its original location what you couldn't see in that picture was where the sports court would be in its proposed location and it's important to note and i don't know if you have the color version of this it's in the packet yeah there are already a number of evergreens there

100. 2:03:45

     the green fencing and he was waiting to do that because you know he didn't know how this was gonna play out so he didn't want to spend no money on that and he did promise to put that fencing around there I don't have a problem with where he wants to put the front of the sport court where it currently is how he wants to place it now so that's the only comment I have really I mean I really don't have a problem with it and I'm the closest one to him so it's up to you guys what you guys decide so which house is yours on the I'm the directly adjacent to them south side okay all right thank you very much anyone else would like to speak on this so hold on the public hearing isn't over yet sorry this is the homeowner freeze and there could be it at its current location there could be trees on both sides of the fences we saw a picture from the homeowner's house that went right back and i wish it was still here but we saw it went right back to see the pool and in that line you would see the sports court in its original location what you couldn't see in that picture was where the sports court would be in its proposed location and it's important to note and i don't know if you have the color version of this it's in the packet yeah there are already a number of evergreens there this is taken obviously with no foliage there's some big trees but when we're looking at that white house which is the losser house that's the garage side that is not their living space so when we're sitting when they're sitting there saying we're in our looking out of our house that's not where they're they're eating that's not where they're dining that's the garage side of the house so you know we we believe that by installing 12-foot trees to begin with it will grow substantially taller but we are certainly open to additional screening if that is uh necessary and again i also want to mention you know we're talking about a four-year-old and an eight-year-old we're not running a men's league here it's not five on five basketball this is to be used during daylight hours during summer hours when people are outside they're playing when the kids are swimming when they have friends over you know to the extent there's noise there's recourse if they're out there after dark or if they're out there after hours when they're not supposed to be there but that's not what's going to be proposed that's not what's going to happen and that's not what's proposed we're talking about activities of little children during daylight hours mr. Fanners I don't know if you have anything

101. 2:05:00

     the color version of this it's in the packet yeah there are already a number of evergreens there this is taken obviously with no foliage there's some big trees but when we're looking at that white house which is the losser house that's the garage side that is not their living space so when we're sitting when they're sitting there saying we're in our looking out of our house that's not where they're they're eating that's not where they're dining that's the garage side of the house so you know we we believe that by installing 12-foot trees to begin with it will grow substantially taller but we are certainly open to additional screening if that is uh necessary and again i also want to mention you know we're talking about a four-year-old and an eight-year-old we're not running a men's league here it's not five on five basketball this is to be used during daylight hours during summer hours when people are outside they're playing when the kids are swimming when they have friends over you know to the extent there's noise there's recourse if they're out there after dark or if they're out there after hours when they're not supposed to be there but that's not what's going to be proposed that's not what's going to happen and that's not what's proposed we're talking about activities of little children during daylight hours mr. Fanners I don't know if you have anything else there hi my name is Brian Fantish it's nice to meet the board in the panel mr. Henry you asked that almost three years ago why my wife and I were not here we have two children four and eight years old two sons we're very good people I'm a practicing attorney for 26 years in the community no criminal record never been arrested before never been charged with anything before same with my wife Vanessa our child was sick back in January I think mr. Ford I didn't bring that up today I don't know the reason I'm bringing it up is okay it's a new application today to start a new and you asked about what transpired in the past and part of the minutes and part of the record of that hearing we were called anarchists because we were not here and no one knew the reason we were at the end of the of the meeting that it was stated this is anarchy and people like this shouldn't should be here today and there wasn't a reason you did not mr. Zotti you did not I believe mr. Ford did and afterwards mr. Henry agreed so I I just want to I want to introduce you to myself to tell you we're good people we have no record and you just made a face

102. 2:06:15

     children during daylight hours mr. Fanners I don't know if you have anything else there hi my name is Brian Fantish it's nice to meet the board in the panel mr. Henry you asked that almost three years ago why my wife and I were not here we have two children four and eight years old two sons we're very good people I'm a practicing attorney for 26 years in the community no criminal record never been arrested before never been charged with anything before same with my wife Vanessa our child was sick back in January I think mr. Ford I didn't bring that up today I don't know the reason I'm bringing it up is okay it's a new application today to start a new and you asked about what transpired in the past and part of the minutes and part of the record of that hearing we were called anarchists because we were not here and no one knew the reason we were at the end of the of the meeting that it was stated this is anarchy and people like this shouldn't should be here today and there wasn't a reason you did not mr. Zotti you did not I believe mr. Ford did and afterwards mr. Henry agreed so I I just want to I want to introduce you to myself to tell you we're good people we have no record and you just made a face I'm trying to think back of, I don't remember that, but it was a long time ago. It was in the minutes. We have it. We have the record. But in any event, we're here to start fresh and we're here to start anew. And we're here to comply with the new plans. However, what was never disclosed to the board as well, and I'll have you put it on. The court in its current location in its current location where it says final approval for the sports court in clear writing. This was never disclosed on any freedom of information request or to this board back many years ago. So I just want the panel and the board to be aware that it was approved on July 26, 2023 in its current location. You cannot have lights. We cannot have electricity. You cannot have anything on that court from an electrical standpoint. But this was approved where it currently is at almost three years ago, potentially. And put whatever screening is required of us in to go forward and do this at an extreme expense.

103. 2:07:30

     I'm trying to think back of, I don't remember that, but it was a long time ago. It was in the minutes. We have it. We have the record. But in any event, we're here to start fresh and we're here to start anew. And we're here to comply with the new plans. However, what was never disclosed to the board as well, and I'll have you put it on. The court in its current location in its current location where it says final approval for the sports court in clear writing. This was never disclosed on any freedom of information request or to this board back many years ago. So I just want the panel and the board to be aware that it was approved on July 26, 2023 in its current location. You cannot have lights. We cannot have electricity. You cannot have anything on that court from an electrical standpoint. But this was approved where it currently is at almost three years ago, potentially. And put whatever screening is required of us in to go forward and do this at an extreme expense. We are only in front of the board today, and we could not add any trees during these last two years because of ongoing litigation. We had to spend $50,000 just to have this hearing today to allow this board and the new composition. of the board thankfully i am jewish also my wife is catholic there was a member on the board at one point in time and said jews are the scum of the earth and it is our turn today to just hat miss fakie she's no longer here so i am grateful and thankful that there's a new composition on this board and we have an adjacent neighbor who's willing obviously and stated that there's no objection so i'm just asking the seven of you and respectfully requesting that we keep either keep the court in existing condition or allow us to tilt it for today's new application it meets all the setbacks it meets all the screening requirements and we're willing to spend the expense and time to do so even though keeping in mind the township is previously approved by one of their inspectors with the green card final approval of the court in its existing location that none of you were aware of many years ago thank you uh welcome glad you could join us thank you uh may i address the board

104. 2:08:45

     in to go forward and do this at an extreme expense. We are only in front of the board today, and we could not add any trees during these last two years because of ongoing litigation. We had to spend $50,000 just to have this hearing today to allow this board and the new composition. of the board thankfully i am jewish also my wife is catholic there was a member on the board at one point in time and said jews are the scum of the earth and it is our turn today to just hat miss fakie she's no longer here so i am grateful and thankful that there's a new composition on this board and we have an adjacent neighbor who's willing obviously and stated that there's no objection so i'm just asking the seven of you and respectfully requesting that we keep either keep the court in existing condition or allow us to tilt it for today's new application it meets all the setbacks it meets all the screening requirements and we're willing to spend the expense and time to do so even though keeping in mind the township is previously approved by one of their inspectors with the green card final approval of the court in its existing location that none of you were aware of many years ago thank you uh welcome glad you could join us thank you uh may i address the board sure uh mr vantage made a representation that the township issued an approval for the location of the sports court in its current location um he is referencing a green um sticker which was placed i believe on a chair i believe on a chair on you this property by the electrical inspector, which was finaling an electrical permit. It was not an inspection of the location of the court in any way, and the electrical inspector does not have the authority to review the location of the sports court. So I wanted to make that clear for the members of the board. Yes. Thank you. I'm familiar with the green stickers, and I had a lot of same thoughts in my head. You know, I know how litigation goes, so I could see how, you know, that might have been brought up in the litigation, so I understand that. Does anybody have any other questions for the applicant or our counsel?

105. 2:10:00

     of many years ago thank you uh welcome glad you could join us thank you uh may i address the board sure uh mr vantage made a representation that the township issued an approval for the location of the sports court in its current location um he is referencing a green um sticker which was placed i believe on a chair i believe on a chair on you this property by the electrical inspector, which was finaling an electrical permit. It was not an inspection of the location of the court in any way, and the electrical inspector does not have the authority to review the location of the sports court. So I wanted to make that clear for the members of the board. Yes. Thank you. I'm familiar with the green stickers, and I had a lot of same thoughts in my head. You know, I know how litigation goes, so I could see how, you know, that might have been brought up in the litigation, so I understand that. Does anybody have any other questions for the applicant or our counsel? Because this is kind of... What is the hardship for moving it from the area that we originally approved that has their other... structures to the side yard that seems to be really away from all the other structures? Well, again, we're looking at a brand new application, so... Whether it's a brand new application or not, it's still a valid question as to why it's away from the other structures in the yard. Well, I guess respectfully, I've got to disagree, because according to the ordinance, you're supposed to look at a site plan for permission as to whether it meets all setback requirements, which this location does. And so... So you're looking at it as if that application had never come before you before. I know it's hard to take it. I actually was looking at it with some of the neighbor feedback. So that's the reason for my question. Is there any reason why that is? I'm sorry. That's the reason for my question is with some of the neighbor feedback, is there a reason why it's further away from the other structures in the yard? It's further away from the other structures in that corner because it allows for them to play, and again, it gives them a good view from the inside of the house,

106. 2:11:15

     Because this is kind of... What is the hardship for moving it from the area that we originally approved that has their other... structures to the side yard that seems to be really away from all the other structures? Well, again, we're looking at a brand new application, so... Whether it's a brand new application or not, it's still a valid question as to why it's away from the other structures in the yard. Well, I guess respectfully, I've got to disagree, because according to the ordinance, you're supposed to look at a site plan for permission as to whether it meets all setback requirements, which this location does. And so... So you're looking at it as if that application had never come before you before. I know it's hard to take it. I actually was looking at it with some of the neighbor feedback. So that's the reason for my question. Is there any reason why that is? I'm sorry. That's the reason for my question is with some of the neighbor feedback, is there a reason why it's further away from the other structures in the yard? It's further away from the other structures in that corner because it allows for them to play, and again, it gives them a good view from the inside of the house, and it's not the first thing you step on when you walk in from the backyard. And again, aesthetically, it makes more sense back there as well, and it's farthest from that neighbor's house as well. I don't understand the step-on part. Could you explain that for a minute? Again, I'm trying to balance the fact that we're looking at this. I'm just trying to understand that. No, no, I understand that. In the original location, you walk in from the driveway. There's a gate, and then the court would have been like right there. I don't know if you can see the fence line, but... Yeah. Yeah, so you're really walking in, and the first thing you're stepping into is the court. So this makes it... But that's not part of this application. But again, that's... So why is the sport court further away from the other structures? We cannot refer to anything in the past, right? No, correct. I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood your question. It's in that corner because, again, it's the farthest location from the neighbors. It's... It's... It's... it's the way the backyard flows, there are some grading issues as well, and so this way there are issues in terms of grading, whereas other places it would have had to be graded. So it makes more sense, and it also just kind of sets it away from the pool. So if advantages are swimming,

107. 2:12:30

     because it allows for them to play, and again, it gives them a good view from the inside of the house, and it's not the first thing you step on when you walk in from the backyard. And again, aesthetically, it makes more sense back there as well, and it's farthest from that neighbor's house as well. I don't understand the step-on part. Could you explain that for a minute? Again, I'm trying to balance the fact that we're looking at this. I'm just trying to understand that. No, no, I understand that. In the original location, you walk in from the driveway. There's a gate, and then the court would have been like right there. I don't know if you can see the fence line, but... Yeah. Yeah, so you're really walking in, and the first thing you're stepping into is the court. So this makes it... But that's not part of this application. But again, that's... So why is the sport court further away from the other structures? We cannot refer to anything in the past, right? No, correct. I'm sorry. I must have misunderstood your question. It's in that corner because, again, it's the farthest location from the neighbors. It's... It's... It's... it's the way the backyard flows, there are some grading issues as well, and so this way there are issues in terms of grading, whereas other places it would have had to be graded. So it makes more sense, and it also just kind of sets it away from the pool. So if advantages are swimming, and they have guests over swimming, and the boys are playing basketball, they're not on top of each other either. Going along with what Andrea was saying, okay, if I were to look at this in the first instance like you're asking me to do, knowing that I don't love sports courts, okay, I've made that pretty clear, I understand you're trying to swing it around, but what I would say to you is I would be more inclined to look favorably on this if once you swung it around, you brought it in closer to your existing structures that are in the backyard, thereby bringing it farther away from the houses that are around you and giving you more room to screen. I also would want you to consider knocking it back down to the original 30 by 50 foot size, okay? I think if you bring it in closer, it makes sense. It actually ends up almost being behind the house in terms of looking from the front, and leaves that green area along the back and sides for the neighbors.

108. 2:13:45

     So if advantages are swimming, and they have guests over swimming, and the boys are playing basketball, they're not on top of each other either. Going along with what Andrea was saying, okay, if I were to look at this in the first instance like you're asking me to do, knowing that I don't love sports courts, okay, I've made that pretty clear, I understand you're trying to swing it around, but what I would say to you is I would be more inclined to look favorably on this if once you swung it around, you brought it in closer to your existing structures that are in the backyard, thereby bringing it farther away from the houses that are around you and giving you more room to screen. I also would want you to consider knocking it back down to the original 30 by 50 foot size, okay? I think if you bring it in closer, it makes sense. It actually ends up almost being behind the house in terms of looking from the front, and leaves that green area along the back and sides for the neighbors. I think advantages are willing to accommodate both of those requests if there's an approval move it in closer to your pool okay I mean right now it's it's shoved in the back corner okay you've got looks to be a decent sized area between the house or behind the house say the pools here and here's the end of the house house oh but it could be moved over in tighter so it's more behind your house and closer to the pool no if it's closer to the pool it's not going to be closer to their home no it's gonna be able to be screened the neighbor and you're gonna need to come up to the podium if you're gonna keep talking to me if you start again I'm sorry my directions are a little bit off here so if we start moving it to the top of the screen it moves it closer to the loss or house while it does move it no the pool is still in between the pool and the pool house are still in between the

109. 2:15:00

     I think advantages are willing to accommodate both of those requests if there's an approval move it in closer to your pool okay I mean right now it's it's shoved in the back corner okay you've got looks to be a decent sized area between the house or behind the house say the pools here and here's the end of the house house oh but it could be moved over in tighter so it's more behind your house and closer to the pool no if it's closer to the pool it's not going to be closer to their home no it's gonna be able to be screened the neighbor and you're gonna need to come up to the podium if you're gonna keep talking to me if you start again I'm sorry my directions are a little bit off here so if we start moving it to the top of the screen it moves it closer to the loss or house while it does move it no the pool is still in between the pool and the pool house are still in between the laws or house sure but I mean if that's what the board desires I think I'm sure I think they're willing to accommodate that I don't know how the rest of the board you know so I'm sorry that the public hearing is closed although you know we have a hand up from the last or neighbor because it is well first of all he he doesn't like his current location so and I think he has he's worried about the screening he's worried about some other things and I agree with you moving it closer to the other structures but I I'm just guessing the hands being raised because that's that's a problem but we have to give him some guidance here if if if this location isn't going to get four votes I ask a question sure for our township attorney yes is it a fact that we have to look at this as a new proposal or is an amended proposal based on the court order like an amended proposal based on the court so that means history is relevant yes okay so that changes my perspective on this so you had

110. 2:16:15

     does move it no the pool is still in between the pool and the pool house are still in between the laws or house sure but I mean if that's what the board desires I think I'm sure I think they're willing to accommodate that I don't know how the rest of the board you know so I'm sorry that the public hearing is closed although you know we have a hand up from the last or neighbor because it is well first of all he he doesn't like his current location so and I think he has he's worried about the screening he's worried about some other things and I agree with you moving it closer to the other structures but I I'm just guessing the hands being raised because that's that's a problem but we have to give him some guidance here if if if this location isn't going to get four votes I ask a question sure for our township attorney yes is it a fact that we have to look at this as a new proposal or is an amended proposal based on the court order like an amended proposal based on the court so that means history is relevant yes okay so that changes my perspective on this so you had mentioned that we have as you know I'm not a proponent of sports courts but I believe in property rights I always want civil engineering and this type of thing I will have trouble trusting some of this process when you guys had a plan and somehow the contractors missed a location by like 200 feet well as the size of the court changed from approved to what was built. Those are facts. So I have a tough time and being able to enforce that whatever is done here will be completed based on relevant history. So I have to respectfully disagree with the city attorney, the township attorney, because this was ordered back here through a writ of mandamus and the writ of mandamus was a new application to consider it at this location and the court ordered that this board hear that application. It wasn't a remand, it wasn't an amended application, it was a new application that we sought approval. So respectfully I have to

111. 2:17:30

     relevant yes okay so that changes my perspective on this so you had mentioned that we have as you know I'm not a proponent of sports courts but I believe in property rights I always want civil engineering and this type of thing I will have trouble trusting some of this process when you guys had a plan and somehow the contractors missed a location by like 200 feet well as the size of the court changed from approved to what was built. Those are facts. So I have a tough time and being able to enforce that whatever is done here will be completed based on relevant history. So I have to respectfully disagree with the city attorney, the township attorney, because this was ordered back here through a writ of mandamus and the writ of mandamus was a new application to consider it at this location and the court ordered that this board hear that application. It wasn't a remand, it wasn't an amended application, it was a new application that we sought approval. So respectfully I have to disagree with that point. Perfect. Counsel? Counsel? Yes. Is it your stance that we're relative history matters? It is my stance that the history of the property does matter. Perfect. So I'm always gonna go with our experts whether that is my director of planning or my township attorney. Regardless, every time we have a piece of property we review the prior ZBA history on that property. We always do that. So, you know, as part of our review we aren't necessarily reviewing what we've done on this property before. Understood. But I want to make it clear. what's happened should not be held against my clients in terms of what was built, what was approved, how it was built, and it shouldn't be used as a basis to say, well, you built it in the wrong spot, so we're going to hold that against you in this case. But then you also had said early that you have one board member who wants to make sure that the civil engineering is done properly, which is true, I continue to do that. Yeah, we don't have a problem with having it engineer. But it hasn't been done. Well, it was.

112. 2:18:45

     it was a new application that we sought approval. So respectfully I have to disagree with that point. Perfect. Counsel? Counsel? Yes. Is it your stance that we're relative history matters? It is my stance that the history of the property does matter. Perfect. So I'm always gonna go with our experts whether that is my director of planning or my township attorney. Regardless, every time we have a piece of property we review the prior ZBA history on that property. We always do that. So, you know, as part of our review we aren't necessarily reviewing what we've done on this property before. Understood. But I want to make it clear. what's happened should not be held against my clients in terms of what was built, what was approved, how it was built, and it shouldn't be used as a basis to say, well, you built it in the wrong spot, so we're going to hold that against you in this case. But then you also had said early that you have one board member who wants to make sure that the civil engineering is done properly, which is true, I continue to do that. Yeah, we don't have a problem with having it engineer. But it hasn't been done. Well, it was. There is no way a civil engineer would have allowed you to put it in one area and built it in another. And if that's a condition, we can have it re-engineered. We don't believe there's any issues, but if that's a condition of approval, we don't have a problem with that. And if I'm looking at it as a new application, there's a moratorium on it. So it would have to be based on when the application was submitted. Well, it's based on when the court ordered that the township hear the application. And when was that? I don't know, 14 or 15 months ago. Is that true? I'm looking for the precise state. As long as it's more than- Well, it was- It was prior to the moratorium. The moratorium was not raised by anybody in the court. That's irrelevant. Yeah, they're in advance of the deadline for the moratorium, so we're considering it. Yeah, and if engineering's a condition, we're not opposed to that. You know, the advantages are more than willing to work with the township to bring this to a head, to get an approval, and to have something where we can all just move on with this process, and they can have their kids out there- and join their backyard as we go into summer. What I don't understand is, I mean, you did have an approval. You did. You had an approval for a different location. And their contractor said, hey, we believe that we should put it here because of. I'm sorry, go ahead.

113. 2:20:00

     There is no way a civil engineer would have allowed you to put it in one area and built it in another. And if that's a condition, we can have it re-engineered. We don't believe there's any issues, but if that's a condition of approval, we don't have a problem with that. And if I'm looking at it as a new application, there's a moratorium on it. So it would have to be based on when the application was submitted. Well, it's based on when the court ordered that the township hear the application. And when was that? I don't know, 14 or 15 months ago. Is that true? I'm looking for the precise state. As long as it's more than- Well, it was- It was prior to the moratorium. The moratorium was not raised by anybody in the court. That's irrelevant. Yeah, they're in advance of the deadline for the moratorium, so we're considering it. Yeah, and if engineering's a condition, we're not opposed to that. You know, the advantages are more than willing to work with the township to bring this to a head, to get an approval, and to have something where we can all just move on with this process, and they can have their kids out there- and join their backyard as we go into summer. What I don't understand is, I mean, you did have an approval. You did. You had an approval for a different location. And their contractor said, hey, we believe that we should put it here because of. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, continue. You know, let's remember, the Fantages didn't go out there with a bucket and shovel and start building a sports court. Their experts who they hired who have worked with this township multiple, multiple times said, hey, we believe it's back here, and we believe because a sports court was approved, we can build it in a different location because it meets the setbacks and because it meets all of the township requirements. With all due respect, we're trying to work with you. So if your contractor said that's not a good location for it, you can always come back to us with that situation and have it approved appropriately. not just built without the necessary approvals. Well, and that's why they came back. That's where oftentimes, you know, people kind of, it's not the way, it's, first of all, I can't stand sports courts, but you have a right to use your property. I understand that. Sure. And look, that was a mistake, and the Fantages came back asking for approval. I've asked you before, what's the hardship why it isn't there? And your answers don't seem to be really hardships. I'm not sure that hardship's part of the test here. Oh, okay. It is for the netting. It's for the netting. Thank you.

114. 2:21:15

     No, I didn't mean to cut you off. No, continue. You know, let's remember, the Fantages didn't go out there with a bucket and shovel and start building a sports court. Their experts who they hired who have worked with this township multiple, multiple times said, hey, we believe it's back here, and we believe because a sports court was approved, we can build it in a different location because it meets the setbacks and because it meets all of the township requirements. With all due respect, we're trying to work with you. So if your contractor said that's not a good location for it, you can always come back to us with that situation and have it approved appropriately. not just built without the necessary approvals. Well, and that's why they came back. That's where oftentimes, you know, people kind of, it's not the way, it's, first of all, I can't stand sports courts, but you have a right to use your property. I understand that. Sure. And look, that was a mistake, and the Fantages came back asking for approval. I've asked you before, what's the hardship why it isn't there? And your answers don't seem to be really hardships. I'm not sure that hardship's part of the test here. Oh, okay. It is for the netting. It's for the netting. Thank you. we're looking at a site plan approval whether it meets I mean we look at the zoning ordinance we look at we look at forty seven point six standards that's what we're looking at right and what we look at are some of the things are its impact on adjacent properties right so you know I guess I've said what my thoughts are on this I don't doesn't sound like anyone on the board agrees with me so I think we need to go some way with this so let me ask this so you had the litigation and you can't did you talk to the loss or neighbor we have tried repeatedly to try and work something out you know okay the advantages have tried in the past to talk I did not call them I I said I sent a letter I had conversations with their attorney at that point unfortunately we weren't able to get a resolution but at the end of the day you know we're here for a new request that we believe complies with all requirements of

115. 2:22:30

     we're looking at a site plan approval whether it meets I mean we look at the zoning ordinance we look at we look at forty seven point six standards that's what we're looking at right and what we look at are some of the things are its impact on adjacent properties right so you know I guess I've said what my thoughts are on this I don't doesn't sound like anyone on the board agrees with me so I think we need to go some way with this so let me ask this so you had the litigation and you can't did you talk to the loss or neighbor we have tried repeatedly to try and work something out you know okay the advantages have tried in the past to talk I did not call them I I said I sent a letter I had conversations with their attorney at that point unfortunately we weren't able to get a resolution but at the end of the day you know we're here for a new request that we believe complies with all requirements of the ordinance yeah and so I think it's important for all of us you know we're trying to keep an open mind on it and you know it's important that we do this fairly and I would just say as I'm trying to go back you know typically if there was an objection like this from the neighbor and there was some sort of willingness which it sounds like there is counselor to potentially move it a bit or or screen it there might be some dialogue about that right because now you know you moved it you know quite a bit it is a bit and I you know if you're are you saying that it's futile to say you know talk to the neighbor because that's not possible and too much has happened to have productive dialogue we are we are more than willing to have dialogue but my understanding that the conversation has been unless it's in the originally approved location they don't want to have any conversations I mean they're here if that's a mis- that's a mis- that's a mis- that's a mis- that's a mis- that's what he said before we we've been talking Mr. Fanta he usually sorry a few times ago once Mr. I forgot his name proposing originally to keep recording the same things that's what he's been trying to show different kinds of evergreens that didn't work

116. 2:23:45

     the ordinance yeah and so I think it's important for all of us you know we're trying to keep an open mind on it and you know it's important that we do this fairly and I would just say as I'm trying to go back you know typically if there was an objection like this from the neighbor and there was some sort of willingness which it sounds like there is counselor to potentially move it a bit or or screen it there might be some dialogue about that right because now you know you moved it you know quite a bit it is a bit and I you know if you're are you saying that it's futile to say you know talk to the neighbor because that's not possible and too much has happened to have productive dialogue we are we are more than willing to have dialogue but my understanding that the conversation has been unless it's in the originally approved location they don't want to have any conversations I mean they're here if that's a mis- that's a mis- that's a mis- that's a mis- that's a mis- that's what he said before we we've been talking Mr. Fanta he usually sorry a few times ago once Mr. I forgot his name proposing originally to keep recording the same things that's what he's been trying to show different kinds of evergreens that didn't work he's never proposed to move the world elsewhere this is the first time I see it and I'm willing to work with him if you were to move it like someone proposed to grow it to a house so he can move all screen and he gets further away from the front of our house okay I I have not and it's a very good question Mr. I have not spoken to Mr. DeSmet Mr. DeSmet Or his fiancee in over a year and a half other than seeing him today. We have steered clear of each other Understandable, I agree with miss Rosati We are willing to they have concessions and try to end this and start You know the spring fall whenever you can put in the trees do it as soon as possible to bring this matter to a close Make it 30 by 50 don't have a problem with that move it in if you want it closer as she recommended As mr. Kalinske stated in regards to any type of civil engineering anything that's required of us I have no problem doing and complying and bringing this matter bringing this matter to a close But I do not have a problem with those concessions if the board does do that and we we have our landscape team here great oaks landscaping who's Ready willing and able to start as soon as the you know proper timeline is granted and our motion motion construction team as well willing to

117. 2:25:00

     Mr. Fanta he usually sorry a few times ago once Mr. I forgot his name proposing originally to keep recording the same things that's what he's been trying to show different kinds of evergreens that didn't work he's never proposed to move the world elsewhere this is the first time I see it and I'm willing to work with him if you were to move it like someone proposed to grow it to a house so he can move all screen and he gets further away from the front of our house okay I I have not and it's a very good question Mr. I have not spoken to Mr. DeSmet Mr. DeSmet Or his fiancee in over a year and a half other than seeing him today. We have steered clear of each other Understandable, I agree with miss Rosati We are willing to they have concessions and try to end this and start You know the spring fall whenever you can put in the trees do it as soon as possible to bring this matter to a close Make it 30 by 50 don't have a problem with that move it in if you want it closer as she recommended As mr. Kalinske stated in regards to any type of civil engineering anything that's required of us I have no problem doing and complying and bringing this matter bringing this matter to a close But I do not have a problem with those concessions if the board does do that and we we have our landscape team here great oaks landscaping who's Ready willing and able to start as soon as the you know proper timeline is granted and our motion motion construction team as well willing to Start to get to work So you know it does seem that there's some flexibility You know again. I don't want to Regulate a discussion with the neighbor, but again if this was a first impression that that's what I would do so all the parties would sort of have to Forget the past be having a productive dialogue about You know, you know, it's on a different side of the house and Showing the screening for that and sharing it with the neighbor, I think it'd be helpful Are you amenable to that? Just shake your head. Yeah Right Can we take it to the end? What's that? Can we give it to the end of the meeting? Make a decision? Uh, you know what? I'd say why don't we try that? Well, we'll put you to the end of the meeting

118. 2:26:15

     Ready willing and able to start as soon as the you know proper timeline is granted and our motion motion construction team as well willing to Start to get to work So you know it does seem that there's some flexibility You know again. I don't want to Regulate a discussion with the neighbor, but again if this was a first impression that that's what I would do so all the parties would sort of have to Forget the past be having a productive dialogue about You know, you know, it's on a different side of the house and Showing the screening for that and sharing it with the neighbor, I think it'd be helpful Are you amenable to that? Just shake your head. Yeah Right Can we take it to the end? What's that? Can we give it to the end of the meeting? Make a decision? Uh, you know what? I'd say why don't we try that? Well, we'll put you to the end of the meeting Let's talk now and see if you can make any progress and you can come back. What do you guys want a resolution? You have an opportunity to do it right now. End of the meeting Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we move this agenda item to the end of the meeting. Support So I motion to support any discussion. Are you are you willing to do that counselor? That's that's up to my clients. I don't have them. I think that's in your best interest Okay, because because you come back and say hey, we're never going to agree or whatever, but he's here You know talk to him, you know, and again you asked us to Consider it new I I'd ask all of you to consider this relationship new and try and work at it from that standpoint What's that understood we'll give it a conversation. Okay. Thanks so much Why don't you take the plan and put a little pen to paper? Okay? Okay, if you can do that you You yeah can we draw these yeah absolutely thank you all right uh item number one now we're starting we've climbed the mountain to item number one calling item number one six five four over hill

119. 2:27:30

     Uh, you know what? I'd say why don't we try that? Well, we'll put you to the end of the meeting Let's talk now and see if you can make any progress and you can come back. What do you guys want a resolution? You have an opportunity to do it right now. End of the meeting Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we move this agenda item to the end of the meeting. Support So I motion to support any discussion. Are you are you willing to do that counselor? That's that's up to my clients. I don't have them. I think that's in your best interest Okay, because because you come back and say hey, we're never going to agree or whatever, but he's here You know talk to him, you know, and again you asked us to Consider it new I I'd ask all of you to consider this relationship new and try and work at it from that standpoint What's that understood we'll give it a conversation. Okay. Thanks so much Why don't you take the plan and put a little pen to paper? Okay? Okay, if you can do that you You yeah can we draw these yeah absolutely thank you all right uh item number one now we're starting we've climbed the mountain to item number one calling item number one six five four over hill hi hi everybody my name is charles hyde um i'm the architect for the proposed work on the projects um i'm here representing uh ryan mcnerney who's the owner of the property and we have a we're basically planning to build an addition above the existing garage which has a portion of its of the footprint that's non-conforming it's going over the side setback and we've gone in front of the village's architectural review committee and they've approved the project as it is and we're coming in front of you just to kind of clarify that get your approval as well okay any questions to the board i'll open this to the public and we'd like to comment close public hearing and bring it back mr chair i'll make a motion thank you with regard to the appeal at 654 over hill road for the uh dimensional variance required for the proposed second floor addition to be constructed on the existing non-conforming structure i move that this uh variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact the house is already um non-compliant there's no injustice to the detroit neighbors

120. 2:28:45

     calling item number one six five four over hill hi hi everybody my name is charles hyde um i'm the architect for the proposed work on the projects um i'm here representing uh ryan mcnerney who's the owner of the property and we have a we're basically planning to build an addition above the existing garage which has a portion of its of the footprint that's non-conforming it's going over the side setback and we've gone in front of the village's architectural review committee and they've approved the project as it is and we're coming in front of you just to kind of clarify that get your approval as well okay any questions to the board i'll open this to the public and we'd like to comment close public hearing and bring it back mr chair i'll make a motion thank you with regard to the appeal at 654 over hill road for the uh dimensional variance required for the proposed second floor addition to be constructed on the existing non-conforming structure i move that this uh variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact the house is already um non-compliant there's no injustice to the detroit neighbors by a reason that this is pretty common for that type of lot in the area and the location, the orientation of the home on the lot. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that there are currently excessive setbacks and that it's not self-created. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction for the second floor addition. Support. Support. I have a motion to support any discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you. Calling item 2, 3225 East Bradford. Hello board. My name is Sabrina Brown with Mosier Design and I'm here on behalf of the homeowners at 3225 East Bradford to request a permission variance to locate a hot tub in the rear yard of the property. The proposed hot tub will be located more than 16 feet from all property lines, meeting the required setback. Additionally, the installation will be appropriately screened with the existing evergreens that currently reside at the house. This ensures that it does not create any visual impact or nuisance for surrounding homes.

121. 2:30:00

     by a reason that this is pretty common for that type of lot in the area and the location, the orientation of the home on the lot. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that there are currently excessive setbacks and that it's not self-created. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction for the second floor addition. Support. Support. I have a motion to support any discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you. Calling item 2, 3225 East Bradford. Hello board. My name is Sabrina Brown with Mosier Design and I'm here on behalf of the homeowners at 3225 East Bradford to request a permission variance to locate a hot tub in the rear yard of the property. The proposed hot tub will be located more than 16 feet from all property lines, meeting the required setback. Additionally, the installation will be appropriately screened with the existing evergreens that currently reside at the house. This ensures that it does not create any visual impact or nuisance for surrounding homes. For safety, the hot tub will be equipped with a locking cover which adjusts the township's safety requirements for these type of installations. I would also like to note that this proposal was reviewed by the homeowners association and it did receive their approval. This proposal is available. Being that this is a simple request, I would be happy to answer any questions. I got a couple. Yes. Let's go back to some of the screening. Okay. I just like that. It looks like it. I said that to the staff this morning. Yeah. So the screening right there, view to the rear, that is not. Got to beat that up. That's not at the level at which I would expect your company to be doing or which we would approve. Yes. So we can all agree that that is going to be new plantings. And I was also thinking, you know, people stage houses when they take, you really should have staged that better. That's not a. Yeah. It's not good. So I can see. Absolutely. So I can see both West. Oh, sorry. View Weir and South. I can see the neighbors. Mm-hmm. So that's a. Okay. So we want to make sure we're on the same page. That's a non-starter. So we will then plant plantings. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Close the public hearing. Bring it back. Mr. Chair, I can make a motion.

122. 2:31:15

     This ensures that it does not create any visual impact or nuisance for surrounding homes. For safety, the hot tub will be equipped with a locking cover which adjusts the township's safety requirements for these type of installations. I would also like to note that this proposal was reviewed by the homeowners association and it did receive their approval. This proposal is available. Being that this is a simple request, I would be happy to answer any questions. I got a couple. Yes. Let's go back to some of the screening. Okay. I just like that. It looks like it. I said that to the staff this morning. Yeah. So the screening right there, view to the rear, that is not. Got to beat that up. That's not at the level at which I would expect your company to be doing or which we would approve. Yes. So we can all agree that that is going to be new plantings. And I was also thinking, you know, people stage houses when they take, you really should have staged that better. That's not a. Yeah. It's not good. So I can see. Absolutely. So I can see both West. Oh, sorry. View Weir and South. I can see the neighbors. Mm-hmm. So that's a. Okay. So we want to make sure we're on the same page. That's a non-starter. So we will then plant plantings. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Close the public hearing. Bring it back. Mr. Chair, I can make a motion. Great. In regards to the appeal at 3225 East Bradford Drive for accessory structure hot tub. I'm going to request to be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it fits within the setbacks. It is behind the house and it will be fully screened 12 months out of the year. Oh. It's good. It's good. Yep. For all necessary permits must be within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the hot tub Additional overgrainings of plantings shall be required to completely screen the shed from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at time of planting for 12 months out of the year Support with an amendment. Can I clarify? Sorry, I was looking at this so that hot tub is only like 18 inches out of the ground and there is a hedge going on the patio in between I know it's really deceiving because it's full height right now, but that is being recessed into the ground Yes, as long as you can't see it. So and again, it's as amended because we said that you may have to plan additional and you agreed. Yes All right Are you clear is everything so we have a motion that was embedded in support

123. 2:32:30

     Mr. Chair, I can make a motion. Great. In regards to the appeal at 3225 East Bradford Drive for accessory structure hot tub. I'm going to request to be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it fits within the setbacks. It is behind the house and it will be fully screened 12 months out of the year. Oh. It's good. It's good. Yep. For all necessary permits must be within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the hot tub Additional overgrainings of plantings shall be required to completely screen the shed from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the structure at time of planting for 12 months out of the year Support with an amendment. Can I clarify? Sorry, I was looking at this so that hot tub is only like 18 inches out of the ground and there is a hedge going on the patio in between I know it's really deceiving because it's full height right now, but that is being recessed into the ground Yes, as long as you can't see it. So and again, it's as amended because we said that you may have to plan additional and you agreed. Yes All right Are you clear is everything so we have a motion that was embedded in support And I think we have clarification on how the hot tub is going to be recessed into the ground So all those with that background all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed congratulations your request is granted You must have another she always says I have two more item three a sports court Submitted before this is the last one. Okay, well Just I love sports courts just as they're not what I go on record. I love them. I like the challenge. So bring it on So again My name is Sabrina with Mosier Design, and I'm here tonight representing the homeowners at 2630 Turtle Lake. The homeowner is also here as well in attendance, should there be any questions. We are here tonight for three requests, which is a sport court with a six-foot-tall perimeter mesh netting, two fire bowls on piers located on the pool patio, as well as a five-foot retaining wall that does act as one side of the pool, specifically that is highlighted.

124. 2:33:45

     Are you clear is everything so we have a motion that was embedded in support And I think we have clarification on how the hot tub is going to be recessed into the ground So all those with that background all those in favor say aye aye aye opposed congratulations your request is granted You must have another she always says I have two more item three a sports court Submitted before this is the last one. Okay, well Just I love sports courts just as they're not what I go on record. I love them. I like the challenge. So bring it on So again My name is Sabrina with Mosier Design, and I'm here tonight representing the homeowners at 2630 Turtle Lake. The homeowner is also here as well in attendance, should there be any questions. We are here tonight for three requests, which is a sport court with a six-foot-tall perimeter mesh netting, two fire bowls on piers located on the pool patio, as well as a five-foot retaining wall that does act as one side of the pool, specifically that is highlighted. From a permission request standpoint, all three elements fully comply with the township's requirements. Each feature is located more than 16 feet from the property lines, and the design includes substantial evergreen plantings to screen the features from neighbor views. From a dimensional variance perspective, we believe the request meets the township standards for practical difficulty. First, the proposed features are common amenities throughout the Turtle Lake community and are consistent with the character of the surrounding properties. Second, the features do not create any negative impacts to the neighboring properties. In particular, the sports netting is designed specifically to contain the balls within the play area. It is transparent in nature, and the proposed six-foot height is consistent with prior approvals within the community. Third, the retaining wall associated with the infinity pool is necessary due to the steep grades present on the lot. Constructing a single properly designed wall allows the design to integrate naturally within the site. Without this approach, the alternative would be requiring multiple steps between... walls that does have that kind of five foot in between or the eight foot required in between them which would be more visually intrusive and less aesthetically appropriate for this lakeside setting we know that drains site drainage is major concern i want to note that the site has already been engineered by a respected civil engineer to include a robust water retention system

125. 2:35:00

     From a permission request standpoint, all three elements fully comply with the township's requirements. Each feature is located more than 16 feet from the property lines, and the design includes substantial evergreen plantings to screen the features from neighbor views. From a dimensional variance perspective, we believe the request meets the township standards for practical difficulty. First, the proposed features are common amenities throughout the Turtle Lake community and are consistent with the character of the surrounding properties. Second, the features do not create any negative impacts to the neighboring properties. In particular, the sports netting is designed specifically to contain the balls within the play area. It is transparent in nature, and the proposed six-foot height is consistent with prior approvals within the community. Third, the retaining wall associated with the infinity pool is necessary due to the steep grades present on the lot. Constructing a single properly designed wall allows the design to integrate naturally within the site. Without this approach, the alternative would be requiring multiple steps between... walls that does have that kind of five foot in between or the eight foot required in between them which would be more visually intrusive and less aesthetically appropriate for this lakeside setting we know that drains site drainage is major concern i want to note that the site has already been engineered by a respected civil engineer to include a robust water retention system that is shown by that circle that is by the plant key this will also ultimately be reviewed by the township's engineer upon submission of the permit as a second set of eyes ensuring that it will not create any negative impact on drainage and water management finally i would also like to note that turtle lake homeowners association has reviewed this proposal and has provided their approval and i would be happy to answer any questions is is there a fence or something that goes on the top of that uh retaining wall for the pool for the pool fence i believe it is going below the retaining wall okay so it's not so it's not double stacked oh okay it's not the pool isn't even with the top of the retaining wall correct the pool is even with the top of the retaining wall okay then it drops off five feet yeah technically yeah and if you look at the section it actually is like two feet of the of an infinity edge and then like two or three feet of a trough wall the max height of that trough wall is three feet and then as it gets closer to the house the grade does slope up so it is shorter there this is the it's three feet at the tallest of us

126. 2:36:15

     been engineered by a respected civil engineer to include a robust water retention system that is shown by that circle that is by the plant key this will also ultimately be reviewed by the township's engineer upon submission of the permit as a second set of eyes ensuring that it will not create any negative impact on drainage and water management finally i would also like to note that turtle lake homeowners association has reviewed this proposal and has provided their approval and i would be happy to answer any questions is is there a fence or something that goes on the top of that uh retaining wall for the pool for the pool fence i believe it is going below the retaining wall okay so it's not so it's not double stacked oh okay it's not the pool isn't even with the top of the retaining wall correct the pool is even with the top of the retaining wall okay then it drops off five feet yeah technically yeah and if you look at the section it actually is like two feet of the of an infinity edge and then like two or three feet of a trough wall the max height of that trough wall is three feet and then as it gets closer to the house the grade does slope up so it is shorter there this is the it's three feet at the tallest of us stone wall and then the rest is essentially like a water wall okay so you're only gonna fall off three feet then if you fall over the infinity edge which you should not but yes so this is the public anyone like to comment on this closed public hearing bring it back so again the only things I would like to comment on or what are you gonna do staggered trees yes yep so if you look at the landscape plan on both sides we do have staggered trees as well as a hedge on the lakeside of the sport court fencing above the wall so it will be at the same grade and then go higher that is a taller hedge so that it does screen that defense clarifying on the water mitigation I would imagine you'd have one anyways because it's a brand new construction but it'll be stand by a civil engineer prior to perfect Mr. Chairman I'll make a motion unless anybody has any other questions go right ahead so in regards to the permission request at 2630 Turtle Lake Drive for the accessory structure for the sports court and the Fire Bowls I move the request be

127. 2:37:30

     stone wall and then the rest is essentially like a water wall okay so you're only gonna fall off three feet then if you fall over the infinity edge which you should not but yes so this is the public anyone like to comment on this closed public hearing bring it back so again the only things I would like to comment on or what are you gonna do staggered trees yes yep so if you look at the landscape plan on both sides we do have staggered trees as well as a hedge on the lakeside of the sport court fencing above the wall so it will be at the same grade and then go higher that is a taller hedge so that it does screen that defense clarifying on the water mitigation I would imagine you'd have one anyways because it's a brand new construction but it'll be stand by a civil engineer prior to perfect Mr. Chairman I'll make a motion unless anybody has any other questions go right ahead so in regards to the permission request at 2630 Turtle Lake Drive for the accessory structure for the sports court and the Fire Bowls I move the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as as you know many people like sports courts as well as the Fire Bowls and those type of feature of the body patterns and the Fire Bowls the way around they are all the same way as you can see the things. Second, for the dimensional variance, for the six foot high net for the sports court, and then the five foot high retaining wall for the infinity pool, but again, the biggest you're going to see is that three foot drop. So in regards to the, again, 2630 Turtle Lake, for those two variances, I move the variances be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance, particularly the ordinance would be unduly burdened so because there is a pretty big grade difference on this property as you slope down. So you need that retaining wall as well as to kind of hold back for all that water retention that you talked about. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of the fact that we're making sure water mitigation is taken care of and then we're doing extra screening to ensure that there is no visual associated with the sports court. The circumstances of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that we have that grade change as part of that. And then this is not self created because again, this lot which was just recently created is downward sloping and we're trying to match the topography. If approved, application for all necessary permits

128. 2:38:45

     accessory structure for the sports court and the Fire Bowls I move the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as as you know many people like sports courts as well as the Fire Bowls and those type of feature of the body patterns and the Fire Bowls the way around they are all the same way as you can see the things. Second, for the dimensional variance, for the six foot high net for the sports court, and then the five foot high retaining wall for the infinity pool, but again, the biggest you're going to see is that three foot drop. So in regards to the, again, 2630 Turtle Lake, for those two variances, I move the variances be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance, particularly the ordinance would be unduly burdened so because there is a pretty big grade difference on this property as you slope down. So you need that retaining wall as well as to kind of hold back for all that water retention that you talked about. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of the fact that we're making sure water mitigation is taken care of and then we're doing extra screening to ensure that there is no visual associated with the sports court. The circumstances of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that we have that grade change as part of that. And then this is not self created because again, this lot which was just recently created is downward sloping and we're trying to match the topography. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of construction of the sports court and fire bowls and the retaining wall. Additional evergreen plantings shall be required to completely screen that sports court, fire bowls and the retaining wall from public view and will meet to exceed the height of the structures at time of planting. No illumination of the sports court is allowed. The sports court is limited to daytime hours. Support. Thank you. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No, just as to the sides of the sports court. Thank you. Okay. What the heck, let's do the roll call. You don't have to roll call. Okay. It was only me, right? Are we confirming that? All right. It's just Carol. Just me. Just Carol. It's just Carol. All right. Your request is approved. Thank you. All right, number four. So calling the next item, item four, 7015 Franklin Road. Okay. Again, Sabrina Brown with Mojo Design and I'm here representing the homeowners at 7015 Franklin Road.

129. 2:40:00

     sloping and we're trying to match the topography. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of construction of the sports court and fire bowls and the retaining wall. Additional evergreen plantings shall be required to completely screen that sports court, fire bowls and the retaining wall from public view and will meet to exceed the height of the structures at time of planting. No illumination of the sports court is allowed. The sports court is limited to daytime hours. Support. Thank you. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? No, just as to the sides of the sports court. Thank you. Okay. What the heck, let's do the roll call. You don't have to roll call. Okay. It was only me, right? Are we confirming that? All right. It's just Carol. Just me. Just Carol. It's just Carol. All right. Your request is approved. Thank you. All right, number four. So calling the next item, item four, 7015 Franklin Road. Okay. Again, Sabrina Brown with Mojo Design and I'm here representing the homeowners at 7015 Franklin Road. I'm here regarding three items associated with the improvements to the new property, which I will briefly explain. The first item is a dimensional variance request for a decorative landscape wall in the front of the property. This wall is purely decorative in nature and is intended to enhance the overall landscape design and architectural character of the property. Features like this are very common throughout the neighborhood and many nearby homes incorporate similar landscape walls, entry elements, and architectural features within their front yard landscape. From a practical difficulty standpoint, the request is driven by the desire to create a cohesive landscape design that is consistent with the character of the surrounding community. Without the variance, it becomes difficult to incorporate. you 나올 terms or wine list of measures that do you can analyze your water elicitous Great idea, design element that is widely present in the neighborhood and contributes positively to the visual quality of the streetscape. Importantly, the wall does not create any harm to the surrounding properties, it does not obstruct visibility, create safety concerns, or impact neighboring properties in any negative way. Instead, it serves as a modest landscape feature that enhances the appearance of the property and remains consistent with the established character of the area. The second and third items involve permission requests for a decorative fountain feature and a shade sail canopy in the rear yard.

130. 2:41:15

     Okay. Again, Sabrina Brown with Mojo Design and I'm here representing the homeowners at 7015 Franklin Road. I'm here regarding three items associated with the improvements to the new property, which I will briefly explain. The first item is a dimensional variance request for a decorative landscape wall in the front of the property. This wall is purely decorative in nature and is intended to enhance the overall landscape design and architectural character of the property. Features like this are very common throughout the neighborhood and many nearby homes incorporate similar landscape walls, entry elements, and architectural features within their front yard landscape. From a practical difficulty standpoint, the request is driven by the desire to create a cohesive landscape design that is consistent with the character of the surrounding community. Without the variance, it becomes difficult to incorporate. you 나올 terms or wine list of measures that do you can analyze your water elicitous Great idea, design element that is widely present in the neighborhood and contributes positively to the visual quality of the streetscape. Importantly, the wall does not create any harm to the surrounding properties, it does not obstruct visibility, create safety concerns, or impact neighboring properties in any negative way. Instead, it serves as a modest landscape feature that enhances the appearance of the property and remains consistent with the established character of the area. The second and third items involve permission requests for a decorative fountain feature and a shade sail canopy in the rear yard. The ordinance requires these types of features to be located more than 16 feet from the property line and are screened from neighboring views. Both of these requirements are fully met. The surrounding proposed landscaping provides appropriate screening, which ensures that the features do not create any visual impact for the neighboring properties. These elements are intended to enhance the outdoor living environment while remaining respectful to the surrounding properties and compliant with the ordinance standards. There is a neighborhood behind them that we also want to screen because they are at the end of like a cul-de-sac. As you can see from that picture. Lastly, I would like to note that the Neighborhood Association has reviewed these requests and have provided their approval, indicating that the proposed features are consistent with expectations and characters of the community. I would be happy to answer any questions. I just want to confirm the height of the landscape wall is 28 inches, right? Correct. Any other questions? We'll open this to the public. Any comment? Closed public hearing. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Great. With regard to the two appeals at 7015 Franklin Road, I'll go with the permission request first. I move the request be approved is submitted based on the information presented that the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards

131. 2:42:30

     The ordinance requires these types of features to be located more than 16 feet from the property line and are screened from neighboring views. Both of these requirements are fully met. The surrounding proposed landscaping provides appropriate screening, which ensures that the features do not create any visual impact for the neighboring properties. These elements are intended to enhance the outdoor living environment while remaining respectful to the surrounding properties and compliant with the ordinance standards. There is a neighborhood behind them that we also want to screen because they are at the end of like a cul-de-sac. As you can see from that picture. Lastly, I would like to note that the Neighborhood Association has reviewed these requests and have provided their approval, indicating that the proposed features are consistent with expectations and characters of the community. I would be happy to answer any questions. I just want to confirm the height of the landscape wall is 28 inches, right? Correct. Any other questions? We'll open this to the public. Any comment? Closed public hearing. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Great. With regard to the two appeals at 7015 Franklin Road, I'll go with the permission request first. I move the request be approved is submitted based on the information presented that the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the water curtain feature and the shade sale is an accessory structure that is harmonious with the neighborhood and their landscape plan. Further, in regard to the dimensional variance for the landscape wall to be located in the front yard, I move that that be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact that this is a way for them to create their front yard landscape and have it blend with the rest of the neighborhood. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the same reason, and unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given that this is a sloping lot, and this landscape feature, I would say, landscape wall will enhance it. As a result, it is not self-created. So, if approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to the construction of the water curtain feature, the shade sale, and the landscape wall. I am going to...

132. 2:43:45

     I move the request be approved is submitted based on the information presented that the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the water curtain feature and the shade sale is an accessory structure that is harmonious with the neighborhood and their landscape plan. Further, in regard to the dimensional variance for the landscape wall to be located in the front yard, I move that that be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the fact that this is a way for them to create their front yard landscape and have it blend with the rest of the neighborhood. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the same reason, and unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated given that this is a sloping lot, and this landscape feature, I would say, landscape wall will enhance it. As a result, it is not self-created. So, if approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to the construction of the water curtain feature, the shade sale, and the landscape wall. I am going to... that additional evergreen plantings shall be required to completely screen the accessory structures from public view and must meet or exceed the height of structures at the time of planting it did appear that you had some good landscaping already in your plan so that appears to be fine support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations three for three there you go going next item item five three five three nine walbury a familiar voice hi board i'm ready with action fence i'm here representing my homeowner for three five three nine walby drive um we're looking to put up a four foot tall black aluminum fence and as shown in the drawing um the hardship here is uh the yard backs up to squirrel and since it's on two streets technically this is a front yard but it's not the front yard so i was confused when they kicked back to me i'm happy to answer any questions yeah you're in a secondary frontage yeah any questions isn't there a fence already along that's a long yeah so you said the hardship is that there's a the road there for safety isn't there already a fence yes there's a fence there

133. 2:45:00

     that additional evergreen plantings shall be required to completely screen the accessory structures from public view and must meet or exceed the height of structures at the time of planting it did appear that you had some good landscaping already in your plan so that appears to be fine support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations three for three there you go going next item item five three five three nine walbury a familiar voice hi board i'm ready with action fence i'm here representing my homeowner for three five three nine walby drive um we're looking to put up a four foot tall black aluminum fence and as shown in the drawing um the hardship here is uh the yard backs up to squirrel and since it's on two streets technically this is a front yard but it's not the front yard so i was confused when they kicked back to me i'm happy to answer any questions yeah you're in a secondary frontage yeah any questions isn't there a fence already along that's a long yeah so you said the hardship is that there's a the road there for safety isn't there already a fence yes there's a fence there but there's animals that still go through both sides and she has nieces and nephews that come over all the time or want to be coming to bringing the house to her she just wants to make sure no animals can okay yeah I live in the area there's a ton of critters so but your plan also has no there's no screening there's no screening simply because there's a large canopy over top of this if you grow if you try and grow anything underneath it it's all dead back there but when we have fences that are not for pools we screen them so I'm having a tough time with the screening plan because there isn't any because you if you if you plant an evergreen underneath a deciduous tree it will just die if if you look at the open there's no good overhead if you look at Google by today I've had an opportunity this is a beautiful street yes so right there the Google overhead if you zoomed in on that there's no sunlight can penetrate that so you're not getting anything below you can see all those trees there but that means the neighbors will always see your fence

134. 2:46:15

     that there's a the road there for safety isn't there already a fence yes there's a fence there but there's animals that still go through both sides and she has nieces and nephews that come over all the time or want to be coming to bringing the house to her she just wants to make sure no animals can okay yeah I live in the area there's a ton of critters so but your plan also has no there's no screening there's no screening simply because there's a large canopy over top of this if you grow if you try and grow anything underneath it it's all dead back there but when we have fences that are not for pools we screen them so I'm having a tough time with the screening plan because there isn't any because you if you if you plant an evergreen underneath a deciduous tree it will just die if if you look at the open there's no good overhead if you look at Google by today I've had an opportunity this is a beautiful street yes so right there the Google overhead if you zoomed in on that there's no sunlight can penetrate that so you're not getting anything below you can see all those trees there but that means the neighbors will always see your fence forever but there's one in his secondary side yard front yard and side it's not just the backyard that we're doing yeah did you actually pass by the house on squirrel road or did you go down the wall I want want Walbury okay yeah if you look at it from square from swell and all swirl it's hard to see because of the elevation I get that but with some trees you can hardly see it either too it's it's real thick in there I've been salt in the landscape because um Cory asked me about a landscape plan for it and I consulted a landscaper and he said if you try and grow anything in there underneath that canopy, it's just not going to grow. No neighbors are going to complain about that. Yeah, there's a lot of trees in there and it's not, but, might as well open up the public comment and see what people think. Yeah, open this to the public. Hi, my name is Jeff Duma, D-O-U-M-A. In October, I purchased the house at 3617 Walbury, about three doors down from this home. So I know all about this backyard, I know all about Squirrel.

135. 2:47:30

     forever but there's one in his secondary side yard front yard and side it's not just the backyard that we're doing yeah did you actually pass by the house on squirrel road or did you go down the wall I want want Walbury okay yeah if you look at it from square from swell and all swirl it's hard to see because of the elevation I get that but with some trees you can hardly see it either too it's it's real thick in there I've been salt in the landscape because um Cory asked me about a landscape plan for it and I consulted a landscaper and he said if you try and grow anything in there underneath that canopy, it's just not going to grow. No neighbors are going to complain about that. Yeah, there's a lot of trees in there and it's not, but, might as well open up the public comment and see what people think. Yeah, open this to the public. Hi, my name is Jeff Duma, D-O-U-M-A. In October, I purchased the house at 3617 Walbury, about three doors down from this home. So I know all about this backyard, I know all about Squirrel. And for the last 30 some years, I've lived about five blocks away at 1020 Dowling. During that time, I've served as a director of Eastover Farms HOA and have heard many requests for privacy fences and dog fences and whatever fences, okay? When I received the notice from the ZBA, and I do appreciate so much in hearing from this board when we have these types of issues. Being new to the neighborhood, I went down to the neighbors and and I met, I think Mrs. Brochert, I don't know the name or what have you. It's sort of a pretty peaceful tool. And I still don't know where this fence is supposed to go, what its purpose is, what materials it's going to be. It kind of was eventually brought to my attention that this is a privacy fence intended to keep out turkeys and coyotes. That causes me some alarm considering that coyotes can climb fences and

136. 2:48:45

     And for the last 30 some years, I've lived about five blocks away at 1020 Dowling. During that time, I've served as a director of Eastover Farms HOA and have heard many requests for privacy fences and dog fences and whatever fences, okay? When I received the notice from the ZBA, and I do appreciate so much in hearing from this board when we have these types of issues. Being new to the neighborhood, I went down to the neighbors and and I met, I think Mrs. Brochert, I don't know the name or what have you. It's sort of a pretty peaceful tool. And I still don't know where this fence is supposed to go, what its purpose is, what materials it's going to be. It kind of was eventually brought to my attention that this is a privacy fence intended to keep out turkeys and coyotes. That causes me some alarm considering that coyotes can climb fences and turkeys fly in my neighborhood. I have them through this neighborhood just as I do in my Dowling neighborhood all the time, okay? It is wooded back there, certainly along Squirrel. And there is a fence on Squirrel so that kids can't get out to Squirrel. But no one, including the Walter Briggs Mansion across the street, has those kinds of established privacy fences. They're just not there. Wildlife is a challenge, I get it, okay? I'm a gardener, deer have eaten so much of my landscape, I save money to replace it. I know the challenges over there. And that has been the case as neighbors have come in to my other neighborhood. But the openness, the beauty of the area. So are you opposed to the fence altogether? What's that? What do you want to do with the fence? Yeah. Are you opposed to the fence altogether? No, I mean, that's why I tried to get an idea. Is this a gardening fence? Are we trying to keep some privacy for a certain area or what have you? But in that particular neighborhood, just to have a privacy fence to try and keep nature out, yes, I would be opposed to that.

137. 2:50:00

     That causes me some alarm considering that coyotes can climb fences and turkeys fly in my neighborhood. I have them through this neighborhood just as I do in my Dowling neighborhood all the time, okay? It is wooded back there, certainly along Squirrel. And there is a fence on Squirrel so that kids can't get out to Squirrel. But no one, including the Walter Briggs Mansion across the street, has those kinds of established privacy fences. They're just not there. Wildlife is a challenge, I get it, okay? I'm a gardener, deer have eaten so much of my landscape, I save money to replace it. I know the challenges over there. And that has been the case as neighbors have come in to my other neighborhood. But the openness, the beauty of the area. So are you opposed to the fence altogether? What's that? What do you want to do with the fence? Yeah. Are you opposed to the fence altogether? No, I mean, that's why I tried to get an idea. Is this a gardening fence? Are we trying to keep some privacy for a certain area or what have you? But in that particular neighborhood, just to have a privacy fence to try and keep nature out, yes, I would be opposed to that. And I'm asking. It's not a privacy fence. Yeah, so it's not a privacy fence. Okay, so, again, still, maybe I don't understand, am I seeing this from Walbury? So, what's the purpose of the fence if it's not to block that whole area? What would you call it? It's a aluminum fence that's open. It's not a privacy fence that's solid. Do you see what it looks like there? At what point in the house is that? On the side? I don't know. I was going to, that's an example. That's just a sample of the fence. Perhaps Corey could show the site plan that he has in his hand. That's where the fence is. I believe that there's an existing chain. Oh, okay. There's an existing chain link fence that this applicant is asking to connect to. And they're proposing to connect to it from the house. Yeah. Okay, so, again, that would still move forward and the neighbors on either side would still have a fence there and there's no way to block that fence. So, we would still be able to see that fence, correct? So, your objection is you don't want to see the fence? I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence.

138. 2:51:15

     But in that particular neighborhood, just to have a privacy fence to try and keep nature out, yes, I would be opposed to that. And I'm asking. It's not a privacy fence. Yeah, so it's not a privacy fence. Okay, so, again, still, maybe I don't understand, am I seeing this from Walbury? So, what's the purpose of the fence if it's not to block that whole area? What would you call it? It's a aluminum fence that's open. It's not a privacy fence that's solid. Do you see what it looks like there? At what point in the house is that? On the side? I don't know. I was going to, that's an example. That's just a sample of the fence. Perhaps Corey could show the site plan that he has in his hand. That's where the fence is. I believe that there's an existing chain. Oh, okay. There's an existing chain link fence that this applicant is asking to connect to. And they're proposing to connect to it from the house. Yeah. Okay, so, again, that would still move forward and the neighbors on either side would still have a fence there and there's no way to block that fence. So, we would still be able to see that fence, correct? So, your objection is you don't want to see the fence? I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. I don't want to see the fence. So I guess to your point, the beauty of the area is the openness of the area. That's just the fact of the matter for all of the acreage around in that area. This ZBA has been pretty consistent in not allowing fences in many of these situations without being able to protect the fence. There are some that are maybe gardening or lower or what have you, okay, that are not visually distracting. But in this particular sense, I would say it would be distracting. And then it would just be a matter of it moving down the 12 homes in Walbury, because once the fence is there, then everybody keeps the next turkeys out. We do have wildlife. I get it, okay? But fencing it out, fencing out the wildlife has never worked. And it won't work in this particular instance. And I ask this ZBA to deny this petition. Thank you. Does anyone else like to speak on this item? So we'll close. Oh, you come up to speak on it. Okay. So we'll close public hearing and you can respond.

139. 2:52:30

     So I guess to your point, the beauty of the area is the openness of the area. That's just the fact of the matter for all of the acreage around in that area. This ZBA has been pretty consistent in not allowing fences in many of these situations without being able to protect the fence. There are some that are maybe gardening or lower or what have you, okay, that are not visually distracting. But in this particular sense, I would say it would be distracting. And then it would just be a matter of it moving down the 12 homes in Walbury, because once the fence is there, then everybody keeps the next turkeys out. We do have wildlife. I get it, okay? But fencing it out, fencing out the wildlife has never worked. And it won't work in this particular instance. And I ask this ZBA to deny this petition. Thank you. Does anyone else like to speak on this item? So we'll close. Oh, you come up to speak on it. Okay. So we'll close public hearing and you can respond. Yeah, as we pointed out, it's not a privacy fence. And then this house actually sits up on a little bit of a hill, so if you're driving down Walbury, you're not going to see it at all. Oh, I see. Like, I'm in that bottom right picture. We'll close the door. See you next time. Thank you. I'm standing in my doorway in my truck to get a better picture so I'm actually about like 10 feet in the air taking a photo so when the fence is in the back if you're driving by you're not gonna see it can I ask for a point of clarification if I'm looking at the site plan that's been provided are you stating that the fence that there's an existing chain link fence along Squirrel Road you're not touching that existing chain link fence you are before you to get approval with the red highlighted areas to connect to the existing Squirrel Road fence and the reason you're here is because that happens to fall into what we consider to be a secondary front yard so I just want to make that very clear I think there's a little confusion the request is for a four foot high aluminum fence in the red on your screen to connect to an existing chain link fence along Squirrel Road the applicant is here before you because it does fall with what we would consider a secondary front it's not the height it's the

140. 2:53:45

     Yeah, as we pointed out, it's not a privacy fence. And then this house actually sits up on a little bit of a hill, so if you're driving down Walbury, you're not going to see it at all. Oh, I see. Like, I'm in that bottom right picture. We'll close the door. See you next time. Thank you. I'm standing in my doorway in my truck to get a better picture so I'm actually about like 10 feet in the air taking a photo so when the fence is in the back if you're driving by you're not gonna see it can I ask for a point of clarification if I'm looking at the site plan that's been provided are you stating that the fence that there's an existing chain link fence along Squirrel Road you're not touching that existing chain link fence you are before you to get approval with the red highlighted areas to connect to the existing Squirrel Road fence and the reason you're here is because that happens to fall into what we consider to be a secondary front yard so I just want to make that very clear I think there's a little confusion the request is for a four foot high aluminum fence in the red on your screen to connect to an existing chain link fence along Squirrel Road the applicant is here before you because it does fall with what we would consider a secondary front it's not the height it's the secondary front right but if this were a standard lot I wouldn't be here this would have been approved stamped I'd already be done but because it doubles up to Squirrel that's our whole problem so you are putting the fence along the north and south brand the property line yes well I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think the north side technically we're gonna be in just a little bit because there's a big fat tree there that i can't get isn't that in itself a variance no no i can bring it in i just can't go the only time there's setbacks for a fence would be is if it was being used for a dog enclosure so there's not a required setback the variance is solely on the fact that they're placing a fence in what we consider to be a secondary front yard so it's all because of squirrel row so the applicant is or the speaker is accurate and stating that had it not be a secondary frontage this item would not be before you well there's already an existing fence on squirrel on the squirrel row side correct so he's not replacing that or anything he's linking up to it so

141. 2:55:00

     with what we would consider a secondary front it's not the height it's the secondary front right but if this were a standard lot I wouldn't be here this would have been approved stamped I'd already be done but because it doubles up to Squirrel that's our whole problem so you are putting the fence along the north and south brand the property line yes well I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think the north side technically we're gonna be in just a little bit because there's a big fat tree there that i can't get isn't that in itself a variance no no i can bring it in i just can't go the only time there's setbacks for a fence would be is if it was being used for a dog enclosure so there's not a required setback the variance is solely on the fact that they're placing a fence in what we consider to be a secondary front yard so it's all because of squirrel row so the applicant is or the speaker is accurate and stating that had it not be a secondary frontage this item would not be before you well there's already an existing fence on squirrel on the squirrel row side correct so he's not replacing that or anything he's linking up to it so then but why are we looking at the secondary frontage because that's still the front yard still a front yard yeah but it's an existing fence already we're not looking are we looking at we're connected no red yes he wants that that i understand that that lies in the front yard for the zone so that's why we need the variance because of the waldry side because the squirrel road side i think you're asking a very practical um interpretation of our ordinance as it determines frontages in yards our ordinance would define this as a secondary front yard so anything that's in that behind the house Is the front yard. If this was backed up to another home. You're used to seeing it and considering it, so that's where the confusion probably lies is because that entire yard, if you draw a line, that entire yard is not technically a rear yard, which is where it would be permitted by right. Okay, I got you now. So to confirm, Andrea, if this backed up to another home, not a road, and he made this exact application, it would just go through the permitting process, we would not be noticing our neighbors, that would be an appropriate use without screenage.

142. 2:56:15

     so he's not replacing that or anything he's linking up to it so then but why are we looking at the secondary frontage because that's still the front yard still a front yard yeah but it's an existing fence already we're not looking are we looking at we're connected no red yes he wants that that i understand that that lies in the front yard for the zone so that's why we need the variance because of the waldry side because the squirrel road side i think you're asking a very practical um interpretation of our ordinance as it determines frontages in yards our ordinance would define this as a secondary front yard so anything that's in that behind the house Is the front yard. If this was backed up to another home. You're used to seeing it and considering it, so that's where the confusion probably lies is because that entire yard, if you draw a line, that entire yard is not technically a rear yard, which is where it would be permitted by right. Okay, I got you now. So to confirm, Andrea, if this backed up to another home, not a road, and he made this exact application, it would just go through the permitting process, we would not be noticing our neighbors, that would be an appropriate use without screenage. Yep. Correct. So that's why I'm okay with it. I'm okay that I can't screen it because other than the fact that it's a secondary frontage, he'd get it. But what was it with the dog? If there was a dog, it would be different, a dog enclosure? We have different setbacks, right? Okay, we don't have to find setbacks for a fence if it's not being used for dog enclosure. Does this person have a dog? No, not very well. There's a dog in the picture. There was a dog there when I missed it. There's a dog in the picture? I think that's just a stock photo. Yeah, that's not the actual fence. Okay. I will say if there is a report that there is a dog that is being, if this is being used for dog enclosure, then if the township was aware of that, then they would have to come back then and address the dog enclosure provisions. But based on the information, we're responding to the information applications we've received, and those are our ordinances. Okay. That's the... That's our ordinances. Okay, I'm making a motion. With respect to the property located at 3539 Walgreens Drive, I would move to grant the request for a dimensional variance to allow the fence to

143. 2:57:30

     So to confirm, Andrea, if this backed up to another home, not a road, and he made this exact application, it would just go through the permitting process, we would not be noticing our neighbors, that would be an appropriate use without screenage. Yep. Correct. So that's why I'm okay with it. I'm okay that I can't screen it because other than the fact that it's a secondary frontage, he'd get it. But what was it with the dog? If there was a dog, it would be different, a dog enclosure? We have different setbacks, right? Okay, we don't have to find setbacks for a fence if it's not being used for dog enclosure. Does this person have a dog? No, not very well. There's a dog in the picture. There was a dog there when I missed it. There's a dog in the picture? I think that's just a stock photo. Yeah, that's not the actual fence. Okay. I will say if there is a report that there is a dog that is being, if this is being used for dog enclosure, then if the township was aware of that, then they would have to come back then and address the dog enclosure provisions. But based on the information, we're responding to the information applications we've received, and those are our ordinances. Okay. That's the... That's our ordinances. Okay, I'm making a motion. With respect to the property located at 3539 Walgreens Drive, I would move to grant the request for a dimensional variance to allow the fence to be located in the secondary frontage of Square Lake Road. Because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty. The practical difficulty is demonstrated by virtue of the shape of the lot and the location of two frontages, which makes it difficult. In addition, there's already an existing fence along Squirrel Road, and these small segments will simply connect to that to enclose it. The location of the fence will not hinder or discourage adjacent property, and it's not self-created. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year, all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the fence. I am not gonna require any evergreen plantings on this because of the location of it. Support. Motion and support, any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you. Okay. Andrea, I'm, oh, you, are you leaving? What? I was gonna leave too. Can't do it. Yeah. I'll do it. Yeah, all right. Go ahead, Carol, you run. Okay. Okay.

144. 2:58:45

     I would move to grant the request for a dimensional variance to allow the fence to be located in the secondary frontage of Square Lake Road. Because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty. The practical difficulty is demonstrated by virtue of the shape of the lot and the location of two frontages, which makes it difficult. In addition, there's already an existing fence along Squirrel Road, and these small segments will simply connect to that to enclose it. The location of the fence will not hinder or discourage adjacent property, and it's not self-created. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year, all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the fence. I am not gonna require any evergreen plantings on this because of the location of it. Support. Motion and support, any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you. Okay. Andrea, I'm, oh, you, are you leaving? What? I was gonna leave too. Can't do it. Yeah. I'll do it. Yeah, all right. Go ahead, Carol, you run. Okay. Okay. we're calling calling item number seven two nine nine three all gate all right I'm calling 171 South Williamsbury Road how about that one okay Phil Anstead 171 South Williamsbury Road I'm here with architect some folks in the Homeware Association one of our neighbors and my wife so we're just proposing we have a modest renovation to our house and our lots are small so the design has been done to update modernize our house to current standards we kind of want to age in place is our plan here we've been here 37 years so in that process and the design we're requesting a variance of four feet in the back in that process I sent an information packet to all my neighbors nine surrounding neighbor houses with

145. 3:00:00

     we're calling calling item number seven two nine nine three all gate all right I'm calling 171 South Williamsbury Road how about that one okay Phil Anstead 171 South Williamsbury Road I'm here with architect some folks in the Homeware Association one of our neighbors and my wife so we're just proposing we have a modest renovation to our house and our lots are small so the design has been done to update modernize our house to current standards we kind of want to age in place is our plan here we've been here 37 years so in that process and the design we're requesting a variance of four feet in the back in that process I sent an information packet to all my neighbors nine surrounding neighbor houses with detail showing them everything and ability to contact me and the two homes the only two that are going to see anything physically where it comes back they've actually signed and I've sent all this to you you Kelly she has copies of the signatures from the two only two neighbors will see it and the homeowner Association sent a letter also proving it giving their support okay I'm gonna open the public hearing anyone here want to comment on this item come on up hi my name is Brad Ziegler I live at 196 South Williamsbury and I just want to support Phil and his wife doing this we love seeing the beautification and modernization thank you anyone else want to comment all right I'm gonna close the public hearing mr. chairman I would like to make a motion yep in regards to the appeal at 171 South Willsbury Road for the variance for the proposed encroachment four feet into the required 35 foot rear setback I move the variance be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with

146. 3:01:15

     in that process I sent an information packet to all my neighbors nine surrounding neighbor houses with detail showing them everything and ability to contact me and the two homes the only two that are going to see anything physically where it comes back they've actually signed and I've sent all this to you you Kelly she has copies of the signatures from the two only two neighbors will see it and the homeowner Association sent a letter also proving it giving their support okay I'm gonna open the public hearing anyone here want to comment on this item come on up hi my name is Brad Ziegler I live at 196 South Williamsbury and I just want to support Phil and his wife doing this we love seeing the beautification and modernization thank you anyone else want to comment all right I'm gonna close the public hearing mr. chairman I would like to make a motion yep in regards to the appeal at 171 South Willsbury Road for the variance for the proposed encroachment four feet into the required 35 foot rear setback I move the variance be approved as requested based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance we unduly burdened some because not be able to age in place you have a tight backyard as it is so this will allow you to make a modest adjustment to the home there is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of they're all here in support of it which was great that you informed your neighbors prior to coming here unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that this is part of the narrow areas in that area this is not self-created the fact that this was a platted sub and this is how it's platted if approved all applications for permits must be made within one year And all necessary permits must be obtained prior to the construction of the home addition. Support. If I motion and support any discussion, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Have you enjoyed the meeting, Glenda? Was it entertaining? I've been so happy. I saw your smile. Yeah, you were smiling a lot, Glenda. We miss you. Okay. Calling the next item, Item 7, 2993, Aldgate. All right. Good evening, guys. My name is Harris Mandrick. I am a new homeowner at 2993, Aldgate Drive. I apologize for the five-week-old baby that was crying in the hallway, but it's definitely past the bedtime.

147. 3:02:30

     demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance we unduly burdened some because not be able to age in place you have a tight backyard as it is so this will allow you to make a modest adjustment to the home there is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of they're all here in support of it which was great that you informed your neighbors prior to coming here unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that this is part of the narrow areas in that area this is not self-created the fact that this was a platted sub and this is how it's platted if approved all applications for permits must be made within one year And all necessary permits must be obtained prior to the construction of the home addition. Support. If I motion and support any discussion, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Have you enjoyed the meeting, Glenda? Was it entertaining? I've been so happy. I saw your smile. Yeah, you were smiling a lot, Glenda. We miss you. Okay. Calling the next item, Item 7, 2993, Aldgate. All right. Good evening, guys. My name is Harris Mandrick. I am a new homeowner at 2993, Aldgate Drive. I apologize for the five-week-old baby that was crying in the hallway, but it's definitely past the bedtime. And I'm here. Mine, too. I'm ready to start crying. And there's been enough crying inside, too, so I didn't really hear the baby. Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you so much. Simply requesting a permission to construct a six-foot or a four-foot fence along Opdyke. And then also on the side with my neighbor, 2981, on the left. I think it's facing north. And also on the right, which is Hickory Grove. So this property is very unique that actually on the Hickory Grove, that's actually the Bloomfield Hills Township. And then obviously the back, Opdyke, very busy. So I'm simply just wanting to do an offense. I've got a five-week-old. I want to be able to, you know, play soccer. with him when he grows up and just a little more privacy because that intersection is pretty busy so a lot of cars being there and I simply just want to kind of make protect the family. Recently a few weeks ago there was an accident somebody drove off of Hickory Grove and actually impacted my property so just another safety measure when I play with my boy and my wife hopefully many many kids in the backyard so I also submitted that information to the township so simple request I know a really big opposition a six-foot fence I'm

148. 3:03:45

     And I'm here. Mine, too. I'm ready to start crying. And there's been enough crying inside, too, so I didn't really hear the baby. Yeah. No, thank you. Thank you so much. Simply requesting a permission to construct a six-foot or a four-foot fence along Opdyke. And then also on the side with my neighbor, 2981, on the left. I think it's facing north. And also on the right, which is Hickory Grove. So this property is very unique that actually on the Hickory Grove, that's actually the Bloomfield Hills Township. And then obviously the back, Opdyke, very busy. So I'm simply just wanting to do an offense. I've got a five-week-old. I want to be able to, you know, play soccer. with him when he grows up and just a little more privacy because that intersection is pretty busy so a lot of cars being there and I simply just want to kind of make protect the family. Recently a few weeks ago there was an accident somebody drove off of Hickory Grove and actually impacted my property so just another safety measure when I play with my boy and my wife hopefully many many kids in the backyard so I also submitted that information to the township so simple request I know a really big opposition a six-foot fence I'm definitely okay with the forefoot I already have plans to put privacy screens and arborvides on the left side facing a north to make sure to comply with my neighbors request so simple request hopefully you guys can approve it thank you so much for your time. So you're saying you only want a four-foot fence? I'm requesting a six-foot but I'm able to go soft I think that the the to his purpose of verbiage I've heard a lot. Or a compromise or? Compromise four-foot fences. You're open-minded. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah I'm a homeowner you know six weeks or so so I think I'm only paid two mortgages I'm just trying to make this a little home a family unit with the five week old so pretty simple request open to any suggestions. I just want to make a point of clarification that was in the application it was brought to our attention that the new homeowner did was aware that there previously were chickens approved this property however based on that previous motion by the the new homeowner did was the CBA in action, the applicant understands, the homeowner understands that the township does not grant the ability for them to have chickens on this property. That they would in fact, if and when, although based on our conversation at this time he's a little busy, I think, to want chickens.

149. 3:05:00

     township so simple request I know a really big opposition a six-foot fence I'm definitely okay with the forefoot I already have plans to put privacy screens and arborvides on the left side facing a north to make sure to comply with my neighbors request so simple request hopefully you guys can approve it thank you so much for your time. So you're saying you only want a four-foot fence? I'm requesting a six-foot but I'm able to go soft I think that the the to his purpose of verbiage I've heard a lot. Or a compromise or? Compromise four-foot fences. You're open-minded. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah I'm a homeowner you know six weeks or so so I think I'm only paid two mortgages I'm just trying to make this a little home a family unit with the five week old so pretty simple request open to any suggestions. I just want to make a point of clarification that was in the application it was brought to our attention that the new homeowner did was aware that there previously were chickens approved this property however based on that previous motion by the the new homeowner did was the CBA in action, the applicant understands, the homeowner understands that the township does not grant the ability for them to have chickens on this property. That they would in fact, if and when, although based on our conversation at this time he's a little busy, I think, to want chickens. Or he doesn't really have plans to have chickens. But I at least wanted to, I just wanted to put that out there, so because there was notification in the application which did concern some people that read the application. So we did do some research, reached out to our attorney, and the determination has been made that the motion was very clear and specific to that approval at the time. And that anything to occur at 2993 Allgate regarding chickens would have to come back to the zoning board. So I just want to make that very clear. No chickens. And the fence would be installed 17 feet from the property line with my next door neighbor. 40 feet from Opdyke, start of Opdyke Street, going to my property, and also 40 feet from Hickory Grove, which is a fronted roach. Yeah, so that's 40 feet from the road. What about from your property line? And I'm not sure about the property line. I don't know what it says on there. It says it's in. Yeah, so when we say there's your property and then there's the easement, so that's where we have to, we have to discuss that. Okay. And I'm not against fences. I just want to make sure they're screened. Yes, when they are screened actually on the Hickory Grove side, the full section is screened with junipers. Okay.

150. 3:06:15

     That they would in fact, if and when, although based on our conversation at this time he's a little busy, I think, to want chickens. Or he doesn't really have plans to have chickens. But I at least wanted to, I just wanted to put that out there, so because there was notification in the application which did concern some people that read the application. So we did do some research, reached out to our attorney, and the determination has been made that the motion was very clear and specific to that approval at the time. And that anything to occur at 2993 Allgate regarding chickens would have to come back to the zoning board. So I just want to make that very clear. No chickens. And the fence would be installed 17 feet from the property line with my next door neighbor. 40 feet from Opdyke, start of Opdyke Street, going to my property, and also 40 feet from Hickory Grove, which is a fronted roach. Yeah, so that's 40 feet from the road. What about from your property line? And I'm not sure about the property line. I don't know what it says on there. It says it's in. Yeah, so when we say there's your property and then there's the easement, so that's where we have to, we have to discuss that. Okay. And I'm not against fences. I just want to make sure they're screened. Yes, when they are screened actually on the Hickory Grove side, the full section is screened with junipers. Okay. spruces, other bushes that I don't know what they are because I've learned a lot through this process and similar along Obdike there is spruces there are 30 feet bushes that you can see. I posted some Google images from spring, summer, and fall that really kind of hide that corner. It does not appeal to any drivers on the intersection. It's actually pretty simple what I'm what I'm asking and then obviously with my neighbor on 2981 I've already started the process of getting privacy screens to be at least five or six feet minimum five so if you guys approve the four I've already kind of met that requirement to make sure that I abide by his his grievances towards me and my family. All right so any other questions? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to speak on this? I apologize for not bringing a basketball but this is a lot easier. The problem I represent 2981, the homeowner there Ian Bauer, my name is John McCausland

151. 3:07:30

     spruces, other bushes that I don't know what they are because I've learned a lot through this process and similar along Obdike there is spruces there are 30 feet bushes that you can see. I posted some Google images from spring, summer, and fall that really kind of hide that corner. It does not appeal to any drivers on the intersection. It's actually pretty simple what I'm what I'm asking and then obviously with my neighbor on 2981 I've already started the process of getting privacy screens to be at least five or six feet minimum five so if you guys approve the four I've already kind of met that requirement to make sure that I abide by his his grievances towards me and my family. All right so any other questions? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to speak on this? I apologize for not bringing a basketball but this is a lot easier. The problem I represent 2981, the homeowner there Ian Bauer, my name is John McCausland and I'm an attorney. I've been hired in this respect to oppose the application as presented. Now I listened to what the Homo had to say this evening and I can't object to a four-foot fence if he wants a four-foot fence then he doesn't need my approval or anyone's approval I don't think what I do want to point out is that the building and use restrictions did govern the this homeowners Association which no longer exists and can and so will no longer enforce the building and use restrictions which leaves the neighbors to do it those building and use restrictions say that you cannot build a fence north of the rear line of the property or forward of the rear line of the property in this case I guess it would be west so if he's willing and he sounds like he's willing to to make some accommodations if he's willing to push

152. 3:08:45

     problem I represent 2981, the homeowner there Ian Bauer, my name is John McCausland and I'm an attorney. I've been hired in this respect to oppose the application as presented. Now I listened to what the Homo had to say this evening and I can't object to a four-foot fence if he wants a four-foot fence then he doesn't need my approval or anyone's approval I don't think what I do want to point out is that the building and use restrictions did govern the this homeowners Association which no longer exists and can and so will no longer enforce the building and use restrictions which leaves the neighbors to do it those building and use restrictions say that you cannot build a fence north of the rear line of the property or forward of the rear line of the property in this case I guess it would be west so if he's willing and he sounds like he's willing to to make some accommodations if he's willing to push his fence back so that it doesn't go any further west then the rear line of the property we won't be objecting to that and that's now gonna and if he's willing to keep the fence at four feet we won't have any objection to that and the final issue we have is on his drawings and in his applications he indicates that he will be building a hedge on the outside defense to screen it that will be six foot high if the fence is only four foot high he doesn't need a six foot high hedge and the building and use restrictions specifically say he can't exceed four foot for any hedges that he would build anyway and I realize you're not here to enforce building and use restrictions but I just want you to know what we're up against if if he is not willing to to soften his position so when when you say when you say we are you talking about you and your client or who's the my client okay okay but in any event Mike my client who is the most specifically affected

153. 3:10:00

     sounds like he's willing to to make some accommodations if he's willing to push his fence back so that it doesn't go any further west then the rear line of the property we won't be objecting to that and that's now gonna and if he's willing to keep the fence at four feet we won't have any objection to that and the final issue we have is on his drawings and in his applications he indicates that he will be building a hedge on the outside defense to screen it that will be six foot high if the fence is only four foot high he doesn't need a six foot high hedge and the building and use restrictions specifically say he can't exceed four foot for any hedges that he would build anyway and I realize you're not here to enforce building and use restrictions but I just want you to know what we're up against if if he is not willing to to soften his position so when when you say when you say we are you talking about you and your client or who's the my client okay okay but in any event Mike my client who is the most specifically affected neighbor would would oppose any fence that is higher than four feet any shrubbery that's higher than four feet and any fence that comes ahead of or past the rear edge of the structure on the property okay that they clarified it because I wasn't clear on what you might get out the fact clean of the home yeah it doesn't yeah okay thanks very much My name is Edward Bauer. I own the house at 2981 Elgate with my mother. John's one of our attorneys, 97 years old. My aunt's 101. Both of them live in the houses independently. Yes, we have people coming over. The problem I have is that, according to the drawings, he wants to put that within the

154. 3:11:15

     okay okay but in any event Mike my client who is the most specifically affected neighbor would would oppose any fence that is higher than four feet any shrubbery that's higher than four feet and any fence that comes ahead of or past the rear edge of the structure on the property okay that they clarified it because I wasn't clear on what you might get out the fact clean of the home yeah it doesn't yeah okay thanks very much My name is Edward Bauer. I own the house at 2981 Elgate with my mother. John's one of our attorneys, 97 years old. My aunt's 101. Both of them live in the houses independently. Yes, we have people coming over. The problem I have is that, according to the drawings, he wants to put that within the property line at seven feet versus 16 feet. My mother's house was built in 1962. She built the house and she lives there along with my aunt. She lives down the street. When you open up the door wall, the only place my mom can sit, it only has one door wall. She's going to look right at this. What I'm asking you guys is to keep this at the 16 feet on his property. not allow it to come in to seven feet that the drawing and that he's requested because it's just going to make a quote from my mom says, you know, she's lived in the house 62 years and she'll feel like she's in a prison. And, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong, she probably only has a couple of years to go, but I'm just trying to make a question. make sure that the rest of her life is okay. And again, we've lived in the house, we've built the houses. What John speaks of is the rural building company put deed restrictions that are covenants on all the properties.

155. 3:12:30

     The problem I have is that, according to the drawings, he wants to put that within the property line at seven feet versus 16 feet. My mother's house was built in 1962. She built the house and she lives there along with my aunt. She lives down the street. When you open up the door wall, the only place my mom can sit, it only has one door wall. She's going to look right at this. What I'm asking you guys is to keep this at the 16 feet on his property. not allow it to come in to seven feet that the drawing and that he's requested because it's just going to make a quote from my mom says, you know, she's lived in the house 62 years and she'll feel like she's in a prison. And, you know, I mean, don't get me wrong, she probably only has a couple of years to go, but I'm just trying to make a question. make sure that the rest of her life is okay. And again, we've lived in the house, we've built the houses. What John speaks of is the rural building company put deed restrictions that are covenants on all the properties. And even the deed he took to the property four months ago shows it, incites the deed restrictions. And so what we're saying is that our position's pretty firm, the fact that you guys might not say that they're part of the township, however, they're part of the land. And I'm just asking that you keep this at 16 foot, not allow the second request he has if you look in your file for that. And also in the file, you'll see that he wanted to have, he originally put in there in your August 21st about the chickens. And I brought him up with your staff here very hard. We had a lot of problems with the chickens. My mother was in the hospital at the time. And I didn't know about it when you guys approved the chickens previously with the bells. And the chickens got out a couple of times, they scared my mother. They're, I mean, and there was poop everywhere. We're not considering, we're not considering a variance for chickens. Okay, so the chickens are totally off the table. Yeah, we made that clear at the start. Okay, so my.

156. 3:13:45

     What John speaks of is the rural building company put deed restrictions that are covenants on all the properties. And even the deed he took to the property four months ago shows it, incites the deed restrictions. And so what we're saying is that our position's pretty firm, the fact that you guys might not say that they're part of the township, however, they're part of the land. And I'm just asking that you keep this at 16 foot, not allow the second request he has if you look in your file for that. And also in the file, you'll see that he wanted to have, he originally put in there in your August 21st about the chickens. And I brought him up with your staff here very hard. We had a lot of problems with the chickens. My mother was in the hospital at the time. And I didn't know about it when you guys approved the chickens previously with the bells. And the chickens got out a couple of times, they scared my mother. They're, I mean, and there was poop everywhere. We're not considering, we're not considering a variance for chickens. Okay, so the chickens are totally off the table. Yeah, we made that clear at the start. Okay, so my. last question is then why are the chicken coops all still there there's three chicken coops presently on the property today that'll be a conversation I will have to have with our attorney the the assess those okay well I guess that helps you okay I mean I just want to make sure yeah yeah I mean so we're talking about a very elderly ladies you know in my hand now at two nine five three which is two houses away if you look you know she does have a four-foot chain-link fence which is fine and you know it's been there since 1966 so I mean we're not opposed to that we're just I just don't want my mom to feel like she's all of a sudden closed in if you could understand what I'm saying thanks so much anyone else like to speak on this closed public hearing and I guess I think you wait I actually tried to connect with him and explain to him and work with him what would be the best to appease him and I've actually sent additional site plans where I would start my fence from the edge of the house which meets the 17 feet from his property line and I tried to work with him in person over the phone unfortunately he was very aggressive to my eight eight

157. 3:15:00

     last question is then why are the chicken coops all still there there's three chicken coops presently on the property today that'll be a conversation I will have to have with our attorney the the assess those okay well I guess that helps you okay I mean I just want to make sure yeah yeah I mean so we're talking about a very elderly ladies you know in my hand now at two nine five three which is two houses away if you look you know she does have a four-foot chain-link fence which is fine and you know it's been there since 1966 so I mean we're not opposed to that we're just I just don't want my mom to feel like she's all of a sudden closed in if you could understand what I'm saying thanks so much anyone else like to speak on this closed public hearing and I guess I think you wait I actually tried to connect with him and explain to him and work with him what would be the best to appease him and I've actually sent additional site plans where I would start my fence from the edge of the house which meets the 17 feet from his property line and I tried to work with him in person over the phone unfortunately he was very aggressive to my eight eight month pregnant wife and so really this conversation is really new I'm I just want to build a fence I can start it at 17 feet from his property line which is the edge of the left or north side of my house go all the way down and then take a right then be done with it so uh unfortunately i've been focused on changing diapers and being that's good um and what's the height of the fence four feet four feet four feet all right ready yeah i'll make the motion but okay uh we're gonna make a motion as amended so we'll talk about all those things yep so based on the appeal um in regards to the appeal at 2993 aldgate drive for the um dimensional variance for the fence located in two road frontages i move the variance be approved as amended um based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because you have two frontages both um hickory grove and updike updike i'm looking at the map thank you um there's no injustice to you join a neighbor by the reason of we've mitigated all their issues when we go down the as amended uh unique surfaces of the property have been demonstrated given the fact that again you have two road frontages it's not self-created because you have applied a lot so the mitigate the amendments you're going to

158. 3:16:15

     person over the phone unfortunately he was very aggressive to my eight eight month pregnant wife and so really this conversation is really new I'm I just want to build a fence I can start it at 17 feet from his property line which is the edge of the left or north side of my house go all the way down and then take a right then be done with it so uh unfortunately i've been focused on changing diapers and being that's good um and what's the height of the fence four feet four feet four feet all right ready yeah i'll make the motion but okay uh we're gonna make a motion as amended so we'll talk about all those things yep so based on the appeal um in regards to the appeal at 2993 aldgate drive for the um dimensional variance for the fence located in two road frontages i move the variance be approved as amended um based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because you have two frontages both um hickory grove and updike updike i'm looking at the map thank you um there's no injustice to you join a neighbor by the reason of we've mitigated all their issues when we go down the as amended uh unique surfaces of the property have been demonstrated given the fact that again you have two road frontages it's not self-created because you have applied a lot so the mitigate the amendments you're going to go off of your home which will be 17 feet from the property line going straight back with a four foot fence you will go to again more than 16 feet away from the back lot line going across and the rest of your um drawing here but again the big amendment is going to be a four foot fence and it will be 17 feet from his property line okay again because you're going four foot we cannot require um We can't require any type of screening due to the fact that we can't, unless the board thinks that we should along that one side. Well, I think they were willing to put some screening in, so. But if you want to save me a few dollars so I can afford more diapers, I'm thrilled. We'll do a four-foot, we'll do four-foot screening along the northern end of that property. All it done, sir. So, with that, if this application is approved, all permits must be obtained within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the fence. And evergreen screenings shall be required along the northern end, and I will not require any screening along the east, west, or south. Support? Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here.

159. 3:17:30

     it's not self-created because you have applied a lot so the mitigate the amendments you're going to go off of your home which will be 17 feet from the property line going straight back with a four foot fence you will go to again more than 16 feet away from the back lot line going across and the rest of your um drawing here but again the big amendment is going to be a four foot fence and it will be 17 feet from his property line okay again because you're going four foot we cannot require um We can't require any type of screening due to the fact that we can't, unless the board thinks that we should along that one side. Well, I think they were willing to put some screening in, so. But if you want to save me a few dollars so I can afford more diapers, I'm thrilled. We'll do a four-foot, we'll do four-foot screening along the northern end of that property. All it done, sir. So, with that, if this application is approved, all permits must be obtained within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the fence. And evergreen screenings shall be required along the northern end, and I will not require any screening along the east, west, or south. Support? Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I'm glad to be here. Congratulations. Okay. I just wanted to clarify. The fence can't come. It's got to remain rear to the rear line of that. Yes. It's going to be coming off his house at 17 feet. Thank you. Thank you for being reasonable. Easy. Okay. Calling item 8, 5531 Lane Lake Court. Is the applicant ready? Oh, no. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good evening. Hi, my name is Tom O'Gorman. I'm here on behalf of All Around Pools, answer any questions to get this permit through. It's late, right? So it's a spa in the rear yard, 10 by 6 feet.

160. 3:18:45

     I'm glad to be here. Congratulations. Okay. I just wanted to clarify. The fence can't come. It's got to remain rear to the rear line of that. Yes. It's going to be coming off his house at 17 feet. Thank you. Thank you for being reasonable. Easy. Okay. Calling item 8, 5531 Lane Lake Court. Is the applicant ready? Oh, no. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Good evening. Hi, my name is Tom O'Gorman. I'm here on behalf of All Around Pools, answer any questions to get this permit through. It's late, right? So it's a spa in the rear yard, 10 by 6 feet. The only reason it's before you is because it's an accessory structure, nine inches above grade. Nine inches? That's the ordinance, accessory structures, but it's two feet. That's why it's before you is because it's over nine inches above grade. Gotcha, okay. All right, well, everyone's digesting that. I'll look for this to the public. Close it to the public. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Okay. With regard to the appeal at 5531 Lane Lake Court for the raised spa, the permission request, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits that has to be made within one year. And all- permits must be obtained prior to installation of the raised spa additional evergreen plantings may be or shall be required to completely screen the spa from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the spa at the time of planting support i have motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you very much

161. 3:20:00

     The only reason it's before you is because it's an accessory structure, nine inches above grade. Nine inches? That's the ordinance, accessory structures, but it's two feet. That's why it's before you is because it's over nine inches above grade. Gotcha, okay. All right, well, everyone's digesting that. I'll look for this to the public. Close it to the public. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Okay. With regard to the appeal at 5531 Lane Lake Court for the raised spa, the permission request, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits that has to be made within one year. And all- permits must be obtained prior to installation of the raised spa additional evergreen plantings may be or shall be required to completely screen the spa from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the spa at the time of planting support i have motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you very much so calling the next item 2920 london wall uh this property is owned by my brother so i'm going to uh recuse myself and let jocelyn hi my name is phil brecht with indigo pool and spa i am here on behalf of 2920 london wall uh homeowners um we are planning on putting a grade level pool so we don't have anything raised uh the issue becomes where the equipment's located uh the ordinance says that it must be on the side of the house uh within 10 feet you have 10 feet property line we only have 11 feet our only option would be in the backyard um it has to be adjacent to the house there is an air conditioner right at that corner um so we can't put it right up to the house and it's all windows in the back so we are proposing that the equipment pads about approximately 10 feet from the house will be properly screened with five foot arborvitaes a couple of the homeowners actually live up above so they're not going to see it and then there's the one to the north um and that's they should be screened properly there too and not be able to see that so so we are requesting a variance in the location of the equipment

162. 3:21:15

     all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you very much so calling the next item 2920 london wall uh this property is owned by my brother so i'm going to uh recuse myself and let jocelyn hi my name is phil brecht with indigo pool and spa i am here on behalf of 2920 london wall uh homeowners um we are planning on putting a grade level pool so we don't have anything raised uh the issue becomes where the equipment's located uh the ordinance says that it must be on the side of the house uh within 10 feet you have 10 feet property line we only have 11 feet our only option would be in the backyard um it has to be adjacent to the house there is an air conditioner right at that corner um so we can't put it right up to the house and it's all windows in the back so we are proposing that the equipment pads about approximately 10 feet from the house will be properly screened with five foot arborvitaes a couple of the homeowners actually live up above so they're not going to see it and then there's the one to the north um and that's they should be screened properly there too and not be able to see that so so we are requesting a variance in the location of the equipment any questions from the board then open the public hearing anyone like to speak to this matter then I'll close the public hearing bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion with respect to the property located at 2920 London Wall I would move to approve the request for a dimensional variance for the brown mountain mechanical pool equipment to be located 10 feet from the principal structure because the app that has demonstrated practical difficulty specifically it's a very odd shaped lot the location is hindered by the existing location the air conditioner the small side yard and the fact that there are rear windows all along the back and the utilities come in in that area there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors and the unique circumstances I've described and they are not self-created if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the equipment additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the ground-mounted mechanical pool equipment from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the unit at the time of planting

163. 3:22:30

     any questions from the board then open the public hearing anyone like to speak to this matter then I'll close the public hearing bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion with respect to the property located at 2920 London Wall I would move to approve the request for a dimensional variance for the brown mountain mechanical pool equipment to be located 10 feet from the principal structure because the app that has demonstrated practical difficulty specifically it's a very odd shaped lot the location is hindered by the existing location the air conditioner the small side yard and the fact that there are rear windows all along the back and the utilities come in in that area there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors and the unique circumstances I've described and they are not self-created if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year all permits must be obtained prior to the installation of the equipment additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the ground-mounted mechanical pool equipment from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the unit at the time of planting support I have a motion in support any discussion all those in favor aye opposed congratulations thank you next item up number 10 I'm sorry Brian I'm sorry I just couldn't 45 70 Burnley Drive I don't mean come for a builder for a 4570 Burnley brothers here he's the owner of the house the variance we're asking for us to be able to we did an addition on the back of the house and that's where his existing generator was and we knew want to move to the side of the house he's gonna build a wrap-around deck so the deck's gonna be in the way of putting right next to the house so we want to put it about 20 feet outside the house just one one little addition okay all right any questions so it would be behind that there's there's everybody's going across the front it would be behind that

164. 3:23:45

     pool equipment from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the unit at the time of planting support I have a motion in support any discussion all those in favor aye opposed congratulations thank you next item up number 10 I'm sorry Brian I'm sorry I just couldn't 45 70 Burnley Drive I don't mean come for a builder for a 4570 Burnley brothers here he's the owner of the house the variance we're asking for us to be able to we did an addition on the back of the house and that's where his existing generator was and we knew want to move to the side of the house he's gonna build a wrap-around deck so the deck's gonna be in the way of putting right next to the house so we want to put it about 20 feet outside the house just one one little addition okay all right any questions so it would be behind that there's there's everybody's going across the front it would be behind that and then we would continue to everybody to go around okay the openness to the public and we'd like to comment first I'd like to thank the board for notifying me that there was going to be a change to my next door neighbor my name is Donna green and I live at 45 five 40 Burnley Drive I've lived there for eight months and no one lives in that house and so I have never been able to talk to the neighbor about anything going on with it I've only met him for five minutes one day so my what I basically have her questions as to what is happening here so one of my questions is when I look at the the city zoning 44 42-5 13 natural feature setback I don't know how far if you look in the top left side there that green is a creek and so

165. 3:25:00

     that there's there's everybody's going across the front it would be behind that and then we would continue to everybody to go around okay the openness to the public and we'd like to comment first I'd like to thank the board for notifying me that there was going to be a change to my next door neighbor my name is Donna green and I live at 45 five 40 Burnley Drive I've lived there for eight months and no one lives in that house and so I have never been able to talk to the neighbor about anything going on with it I've only met him for five minutes one day so my what I basically have her questions as to what is happening here so one of my questions is when I look at the the city zoning 44 42-5 13 natural feature setback I don't know how far if you look in the top left side there that green is a creek and so I'm not since there's no dimensions on there I have no idea if it's going to be 25 feet away from it I also don't know how you count it whether it's in the middle of the creek or whether it's you know at the edge where it goes down so that was one question is it away is it what are you from that the second question was with the generator I don't care where the generator goes but there there's no deck in the back right now there's nothing in the back there's nothing there I couldn't find a permit for it but I don't understand how to find permits that easily and then the other question was there's a big space in the backyard I wasn't you the question is why is it is the shed being put on the side yard instead of the backyard again I have questions I don't have objections right now because I don't know answers to the questions and I think those are my only questions okay thank you so much is anyone else would like to speak on this so close the public hearing let the applicant answer the questions the shed will be 29 foot

166. 3:26:15

     know how far if you look in the top left side there that green is a creek and so I'm not since there's no dimensions on there I have no idea if it's going to be 25 feet away from it I also don't know how you count it whether it's in the middle of the creek or whether it's you know at the edge where it goes down so that was one question is it away is it what are you from that the second question was with the generator I don't care where the generator goes but there there's no deck in the back right now there's nothing in the back there's nothing there I couldn't find a permit for it but I don't understand how to find permits that easily and then the other question was there's a big space in the backyard I wasn't you the question is why is it is the shed being put on the side yard instead of the backyard again I have questions I don't have objections right now because I don't know answers to the questions and I think those are my only questions okay thank you so much is anyone else would like to speak on this so close the public hearing let the applicant answer the questions the shed will be 29 foot from the center of the creek 22 foot from the creek I believe the ordinance says we got to be at least 20 feet from the creek I don't know if that ordinance is saying from the center or the edge it would be from the edge of the water that's how it's defined within the ordinance so that should be clear yes so so sorry two foot from the edge of the creek okay so that now poses another issue which is now you don't meet the natural feature setback of 20 feet of 25 feet oh so my record perhaps a consideration would be made is that you can get it out of the 25 feet yes or you're gonna have to come back and get an approval to encroach into the natural feature setback okay so yeah we can move it the two feet or three feet to get it from that edge for sure no it's 22 inch You said 25. From the edge of the water? From the edge of the, there's a bank there. Okay, the drawing's kind of deceptive. So the answer to the question from the neighbor is we do have ordinance, we do have follow-up.

167. 3:27:30

     public hearing let the applicant answer the questions the shed will be 29 foot from the center of the creek 22 foot from the creek I believe the ordinance says we got to be at least 20 feet from the creek I don't know if that ordinance is saying from the center or the edge it would be from the edge of the water that's how it's defined within the ordinance so that should be clear yes so so sorry two foot from the edge of the creek okay so that now poses another issue which is now you don't meet the natural feature setback of 20 feet of 25 feet oh so my record perhaps a consideration would be made is that you can get it out of the 25 feet yes or you're gonna have to come back and get an approval to encroach into the natural feature setback okay so yeah we can move it the two feet or three feet to get it from that edge for sure no it's 22 inch You said 25. From the edge of the water? From the edge of the, there's a bank there. Okay, the drawing's kind of deceptive. So the answer to the question from the neighbor is we do have ordinance, we do have follow-up. Anytime something like this is installed, we do have, whether it's somebody from our building division, if there's a building permit, or we also have somebody from our ordinance department, if it's not a building permit, it's only an ordinance. What they'll do is they will go out there to verify that the location is in fact, consistent with what is being presented. And if there is a question regarding that 25 foot setback, we could certainly, and the board could also make the recommendation that that's field verified to ensure that it's 25 feet off that water's edge, that may help alleviate some of her concerns. So that's just to try to answer any of those questions. I'd be free to answer any more or if there's, if there are any from the board. So do we consider it as is and just put a condition related to the environmental feature setback? I'm saying that you certainly could do that. I think we should just do that. And then you get that big hedge in front. You're going to put a couple of arborvitaes next to the generator so that can't be seen from the neighbor, correct? Yes. And then you'll plant them on this. And then you'll plant... ...

168. 3:28:45

     is we do have ordinance, we do have follow-up. Anytime something like this is installed, we do have, whether it's somebody from our building division, if there's a building permit, or we also have somebody from our ordinance department, if it's not a building permit, it's only an ordinance. What they'll do is they will go out there to verify that the location is in fact, consistent with what is being presented. And if there is a question regarding that 25 foot setback, we could certainly, and the board could also make the recommendation that that's field verified to ensure that it's 25 feet off that water's edge, that may help alleviate some of her concerns. So that's just to try to answer any of those questions. I'd be free to answer any more or if there's, if there are any from the board. So do we consider it as is and just put a condition related to the environmental feature setback? I'm saying that you certainly could do that. I think we should just do that. And then you get that big hedge in front. You're going to put a couple of arborvitaes next to the generator so that can't be seen from the neighbor, correct? Yes. And then you'll plant them on this. And then you'll plant... ... Can you plant, you can't plant evergreens into the natural feature setback, can you? Would that be disturbing the natural feature setback? So perhaps there would be a consideration that there would have to, I mean you can't do anything the natural feature setback which includes the planting. So thank you for that point. So then, so the question now has to be from the board regarding what the appropriate location would work for the applicant. Do you have enough room to- It is in a tree area. But- So there's natural trees there currently. But luckily you were nice enough to show us these photos that without any type of greenery on those trees, I can see the neighbors back, I can see my neighbor's house. Correct, yeah, that's not, they're not evergreens. So we need to plant an evergreen style tree so that they can't be seen, like the arborbodies you were talking about. Which is what my plan was until she said I can't. She didn't say you couldn't, she just provided you a way not to have to come back to ZBA and not get approved. Thank you. So I think that was very helpful, is what I think. I'm guessing by what you saw tonight, you don't want to come back. I don't. So do you- Especially being number 10. Do you have enough room to move that shed five more feet or six feet? Because an arborbavitae is going to be at least two feet, which you can't plant a natural feature setback. So no plantings can be within 25 feet. So I got to keep the tree 25 foot from the edge.

169. 3:30:00

     Can you plant, you can't plant evergreens into the natural feature setback, can you? Would that be disturbing the natural feature setback? So perhaps there would be a consideration that there would have to, I mean you can't do anything the natural feature setback which includes the planting. So thank you for that point. So then, so the question now has to be from the board regarding what the appropriate location would work for the applicant. Do you have enough room to- It is in a tree area. But- So there's natural trees there currently. But luckily you were nice enough to show us these photos that without any type of greenery on those trees, I can see the neighbors back, I can see my neighbor's house. Correct, yeah, that's not, they're not evergreens. So we need to plant an evergreen style tree so that they can't be seen, like the arborbodies you were talking about. Which is what my plan was until she said I can't. She didn't say you couldn't, she just provided you a way not to have to come back to ZBA and not get approved. Thank you. So I think that was very helpful, is what I think. I'm guessing by what you saw tonight, you don't want to come back. I don't. So do you- Especially being number 10. Do you have enough room to move that shed five more feet or six feet? Because an arborbavitae is going to be at least two feet, which you can't plant a natural feature setback. So no plantings can be within 25 feet. So I got to keep the tree 25 foot from the edge. Yes. Yes. So that's what we'll do. And you have enough room to do that? Yes. Your deck's going to be buttoned up to your shed. Shed. That's a proposed deck. So, and that's the side. So he's got a door wall coming out the side and then there's three door walls coming out the- back so we haven't drawn the deck up yeah you could adjust the size of that though yeah okay let's go okay uh mr chairman i'd like to make a motion uh in regards to the appeal at 4570 brindley drive in regards uh for the accessory structure uh the accessory structure i move the request be approved as amended based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of an accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood many people have sheds they use this type of structure for the dimensional variance in regards to the generator being located 22 feet from the primary structure i move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that those as accessory structures of your deck and those other things you can't keep it that close to the structure um also there will

170. 3:31:15

     So I got to keep the tree 25 foot from the edge. Yes. Yes. So that's what we'll do. And you have enough room to do that? Yes. Your deck's going to be buttoned up to your shed. Shed. That's a proposed deck. So, and that's the side. So he's got a door wall coming out the side and then there's three door walls coming out the- back so we haven't drawn the deck up yeah you could adjust the size of that though yeah okay let's go okay uh mr chairman i'd like to make a motion uh in regards to the appeal at 4570 brindley drive in regards uh for the accessory structure uh the accessory structure i move the request be approved as amended based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of an accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood many people have sheds they use this type of structure for the dimensional variance in regards to the generator being located 22 feet from the primary structure i move the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that those as accessory structures of your deck and those other things you can't keep it that close to the structure um also there will be no uh injustice to join a neighbor by the reason of we're going to be significantly from the property line so not going to hear it they're not going to see it because we're also going to put screenage unique circumstances the property have been demonstrated given the fact of again we have that wrap around decks we can't put it on that side uh it's not self-created due to the fact of how the deck is and the structure of the home the amendments you will have to be a minimum of 25 feet from the natural feature setback with your plantings okay um that's for both the generator plantings as well as the plantings for the shed and that'll be field verified so that you guys don't get in any accidental trouble that way it saves you and address any concerns with that if this motion is approved all permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the shed or the generator additional evergreen screening shall be required to completely screen that shed and generator from public view and must meet to exceed the height of that generator and shed at the time of planting support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request this modified is granted calling item 11 1680 forest lane

171. 3:32:30

     your deck and those other things you can't keep it that close to the structure um also there will be no uh injustice to join a neighbor by the reason of we're going to be significantly from the property line so not going to hear it they're not going to see it because we're also going to put screenage unique circumstances the property have been demonstrated given the fact of again we have that wrap around decks we can't put it on that side uh it's not self-created due to the fact of how the deck is and the structure of the home the amendments you will have to be a minimum of 25 feet from the natural feature setback with your plantings okay um that's for both the generator plantings as well as the plantings for the shed and that'll be field verified so that you guys don't get in any accidental trouble that way it saves you and address any concerns with that if this motion is approved all permits must be obtained within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation of the shed or the generator additional evergreen screening shall be required to completely screen that shed and generator from public view and must meet to exceed the height of that generator and shed at the time of planting support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request this modified is granted calling item 11 1680 forest lane evening I'm Kevin Taliaferro homeowner of 1680 forest lane so I'm just here for a request for a shed I built which you can see on the drawing there I built it for my wife for her pottery her potting and I didn't I built it up to the specifications I just didn't know I needed to get a variance so I apologize for that so that's why we're here today I have my notes screening yeah yeah so that's that's our plan we built it right now so well so the only problem is those are real trees. That is correct. They are MS Paint's finest trees, but I was planning on putting arborvitaes there at the end of the driveway to screen it. So that only screens from forest, doesn't screen your neighbor, so. Yeah. On the two sides, so technically I have that same thing in my... Yeah, because it looks it looks like you need more than what your images showed. So the the property line on the south side, that's a parking lot for a church, and that's like dense forest there, so you can't see through it. And there's, yeah, I don't know how I

172. 3:33:45

     evening I'm Kevin Taliaferro homeowner of 1680 forest lane so I'm just here for a request for a shed I built which you can see on the drawing there I built it for my wife for her pottery her potting and I didn't I built it up to the specifications I just didn't know I needed to get a variance so I apologize for that so that's why we're here today I have my notes screening yeah yeah so that's that's our plan we built it right now so well so the only problem is those are real trees. That is correct. They are MS Paint's finest trees, but I was planning on putting arborvitaes there at the end of the driveway to screen it. So that only screens from forest, doesn't screen your neighbor, so. Yeah. On the two sides, so technically I have that same thing in my... Yeah, because it looks it looks like you need more than what your images showed. So the the property line on the south side, that's a parking lot for a church, and that's like dense forest there, so you can't see through it. And there's, yeah, I don't know how I can... I mean I can surround the thing in trees, but that was the only way you can truly see it. And then my other neighbor has a bunch of arborvitaes blocking his house, so he can't even see out his house. So you can't count the neighbors. It has to be green on your property, and it has to be evergreen screening, so if you have... I'm happy to put... Okay, because that's what the motion is gonna say. Yeah. And so, okay. I mean, I can put the forest in there. As long as you're good with that. Yeah. All right. So I'm happy to plan it. Open this to the public. Anyone like to comment? Close the public hearing and bring it back. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Thank you. With regard to the permission request at 1680 Forest Lane for the shed, I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards, because the use of this type of accessory structure... is appropriate to the neighborhood so um if approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within five business days and i am going to add that evergreen planting shall be required to screen up a public field

173. 3:35:00

     forest there, so you can't see through it. And there's, yeah, I don't know how I can... I mean I can surround the thing in trees, but that was the only way you can truly see it. And then my other neighbor has a bunch of arborvitaes blocking his house, so he can't even see out his house. So you can't count the neighbors. It has to be green on your property, and it has to be evergreen screening, so if you have... I'm happy to put... Okay, because that's what the motion is gonna say. Yeah. And so, okay. I mean, I can put the forest in there. As long as you're good with that. Yeah. All right. So I'm happy to plan it. Open this to the public. Anyone like to comment? Close the public hearing and bring it back. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Thank you. With regard to the permission request at 1680 Forest Lane for the shed, I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards, because the use of this type of accessory structure... is appropriate to the neighborhood so um if approved the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within five business days and i am going to add that evergreen planting shall be required to screen up a public field support uh so i have motion to support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted uh so calling the next item 60 60 old orchard hello my name is alex jackson i'm with architectural resource part of the design team representing um stewart and heather sundell our clients who are here today and we're seeking a dimensional variance to rebuild a existing porch uh half of it in the exact same footprint that it currently has and then the other half in a slightly smaller footprint that would encroach less into the natural feature setback and that portion would be a screen porch so our clients uh preemptively delineated that there was a wetland on their site and um the red line on the site plan that you can see

174. 3:36:15

     days and i am going to add that evergreen planting shall be required to screen up a public field support uh so i have motion to support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted uh so calling the next item 60 60 old orchard hello my name is alex jackson i'm with architectural resource part of the design team representing um stewart and heather sundell our clients who are here today and we're seeking a dimensional variance to rebuild a existing porch uh half of it in the exact same footprint that it currently has and then the other half in a slightly smaller footprint that would encroach less into the natural feature setback and that portion would be a screen porch so our clients uh preemptively delineated that there was a wetland on their site and um the red line on the site plan that you can see that is the natural feature setback so the existing deck and part of the garage is currently within that setback so they would like to basically just rebuild in a slightly smaller footprint what they have with the added screen porch so they can enjoy their private backyard area okay any questions from the board open this to the public who would like to comment on this item close public hearing bring it back for discussion questions so the encroachment is going you say he's going to be unless a smaller footprint so what is the encroachment for their proposed so currently the deck encroaches 18 feet so there's a seven foot buffer between the delineated and the existing deck and the new deck will be less you're reducing you're reducing the encroachment

175. 3:37:30

     that is the natural feature setback so the existing deck and part of the garage is currently within that setback so they would like to basically just rebuild in a slightly smaller footprint what they have with the added screen porch so they can enjoy their private backyard area okay any questions from the board open this to the public who would like to comment on this item close public hearing bring it back for discussion questions so the encroachment is going you say he's going to be unless a smaller footprint so what is the encroachment for their proposed so currently the deck encroaches 18 feet so there's a seven foot buffer between the delineated and the existing deck and the new deck will be less you're reducing you're reducing the encroachment all right with respect to property located at 6060 old orchard drive i would move to grant the request for a conventional variance 擊 carbon going so except to allow the deck and non-screened porch to encroach 18 feet into the 25-foot natural features setback because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty. This is an odd-shaped lot, and there is an existing non-conforming deck that sits there now. What they're proposing is to replace that deck but make it less non-conforming, which actually improves the situation. There'll be no injustice to the adjoining neighbors, and it's not self-created. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to the rebuild and repair of the existing deck and porch. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Did you guys want to? No. So calling item 136255, Telegraph.

176. 3:38:45

     all right with respect to property located at 6060 old orchard drive i would move to grant the request for a conventional variance 擊 carbon going so except to allow the deck and non-screened porch to encroach 18 feet into the 25-foot natural features setback because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty. This is an odd-shaped lot, and there is an existing non-conforming deck that sits there now. What they're proposing is to replace that deck but make it less non-conforming, which actually improves the situation. There'll be no injustice to the adjoining neighbors, and it's not self-created. If approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to the rebuild and repair of the existing deck and porch. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Did you guys want to? No. So calling item 136255, Telegraph. Good evening. My name is Matthew Stein, 7411 Old Mill Road in Bloomfield Hills. And I'm here representing Primrose Schools. This is regarding the existing monument sign at the property. We're requesting a small variance to allow the 39 square foot sign, which slightly exceeds the ordinance. That's a small variance to allow the 19, 355結構 to allow the 5 children to allow the 4th limit of 32 square foot, as well as to allow the sign height to remain a few inches above the six foot height requirement. From a practical standpoint, we feel these deviations are minimal and not visually significant, especially when considering the scale of the property in the surrounding areas. The sign was designed and professionally constructed and installed with illumination in a way that does not create glare, does not obstruct sight lines, or create any safety concerns for motorists or pedestrians. For these reasons, we respectfully ask the board to approve the variance request so that Primrose schools may continue operating with a reasonable, well-integrated identification sign that serves families in the community. Thank you for your time and consideration. So how did this happen? Yeah. So this, you know, we, yeah, just.

177. 3:40:00

     So calling item 136255, Telegraph. Good evening. My name is Matthew Stein, 7411 Old Mill Road in Bloomfield Hills. And I'm here representing Primrose Schools. This is regarding the existing monument sign at the property. We're requesting a small variance to allow the 39 square foot sign, which slightly exceeds the ordinance. That's a small variance to allow the 19, 355結構 to allow the 5 children to allow the 4th limit of 32 square foot, as well as to allow the sign height to remain a few inches above the six foot height requirement. From a practical standpoint, we feel these deviations are minimal and not visually significant, especially when considering the scale of the property in the surrounding areas. The sign was designed and professionally constructed and installed with illumination in a way that does not create glare, does not obstruct sight lines, or create any safety concerns for motorists or pedestrians. For these reasons, we respectfully ask the board to approve the variance request so that Primrose schools may continue operating with a reasonable, well-integrated identification sign that serves families in the community. Thank you for your time and consideration. So how did this happen? Yeah. So this, you know, we, yeah, just. So there was an original submission to the design review board that I believe made it all the way through ZBA, is that correct? So our company, we're the sign contractor, we were. No, I remember when you came. Yeah, so two locations and we inadvertently grabbed the plans from one location and it got submitted into this packet. Um, so that made it all the way through to construction. Um, when actually it was caught before construction, there was an amended permit application that was submitted to the township, um, that we were given written approval on. Uh, we received an email from the township that said that the amended app. was approved so we went ahead and constructed the sign we then had the building inspector come out to inspect and it was denied because it was it wasn't built according to what you guys had approved all right look this the public you'd like to comment on this no no we have another item after this oh they would like to make a motion so this went through the design review

178. 3:41:15

     So this, you know, we, yeah, just. So there was an original submission to the design review board that I believe made it all the way through ZBA, is that correct? So our company, we're the sign contractor, we were. No, I remember when you came. Yeah, so two locations and we inadvertently grabbed the plans from one location and it got submitted into this packet. Um, so that made it all the way through to construction. Um, when actually it was caught before construction, there was an amended permit application that was submitted to the township, um, that we were given written approval on. Uh, we received an email from the township that said that the amended app. was approved so we went ahead and constructed the sign we then had the building inspector come out to inspect and it was denied because it was it wasn't built according to what you guys had approved all right look this the public you'd like to comment on this no no we have another item after this oh they would like to make a motion so this went through the design review board so so did the other location get a smaller sign the the radius of the Primrose logo is the same size okay yeah I just wonder where the other plan said okay go ahead sorry no this would be time for a motion team we can rally here the sign no okay I'll take it I know he wants to spread it around I can't make a motion dimensional brands in regards to the appeal at 6255 Telegraph Road for dimensional variance for a existing monument side that's exceeding the maximum square footage and height I move that the branch be approved requested based on the information presented the applicant to demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because to actually remove it would actually for the scope of the property and the size of the property

179. 3:42:30

     oh they would like to make a motion so this went through the design review board so so did the other location get a smaller sign the the radius of the Primrose logo is the same size okay yeah I just wonder where the other plan said okay go ahead sorry no this would be time for a motion team we can rally here the sign no okay I'll take it I know he wants to spread it around I can't make a motion dimensional brands in regards to the appeal at 6255 Telegraph Road for dimensional variance for a existing monument side that's exceeding the maximum square footage and height I move that the branch be approved requested based on the information presented the applicant to demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because to actually remove it would actually for the scope of the property and the size of the property probably that sign is appropriate there's no injustice to the joining neighbors again it's a it's a sign monument sign that'll make the location visible I unique circumstances with the property again because it's a school they will definitely need to make sure that people know exactly where it is and can see the sign and because of that kid is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within five business days because it's existing sure so we have an existing permit amended application in we'll follow up okay she's just making sure that it's it's followed up accordingly with their approval support so I have a motion and support any discussion so okay all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is great thank you for your time all right so let's recall item 3 p 4 9 5 5

180. 3:43:45

     would actually for the scope of the property and the size of the property probably that sign is appropriate there's no injustice to the joining neighbors again it's a it's a sign monument sign that'll make the location visible I unique circumstances with the property again because it's a school they will definitely need to make sure that people know exactly where it is and can see the sign and because of that kid is not self-created with that said if approved the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within five business days because it's existing sure so we have an existing permit amended application in we'll follow up okay she's just making sure that it's it's followed up accordingly with their approval support so I have a motion and support any discussion so okay all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is great thank you for your time all right so let's recall item 3 p 4 9 5 5 Stonely? Do we have a motion to put it back? I'd like to make a motion that we bring back Stonely. Second. Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Back on the agenda. Good evening again. Jason Canvasser here on behalf of the Vantage's. We've had some very lengthy conversations downstairs. We appreciate you affording us that opportunity. I'm pleased to announce that I think we have an agreement, obviously subject to your approval with the Lasser owners who are still here. So, if it's okay, I'll go through with the terms that we believe are agreed to by the parties. That might be a good idea, Corey, for you to show you on the- Perfect. I think he was reading. We can show on the overhead, actually. We try. I said on Birmingham's BZA, we don't have anything fancy like this. Oh, if we make it to 10-30, we have late night snacks and drinks. I'm going to tell Jeff that and see if he'll start bringing in some chocolate cookies or something like that. We're going to order pizza? Yeah, exactly. So, the parties believe that it's in their both best interest to keep the court where it's currently built,

181. 3:45:00

     Stonely? Do we have a motion to put it back? I'd like to make a motion that we bring back Stonely. Second. Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Back on the agenda. Good evening again. Jason Canvasser here on behalf of the Vantage's. We've had some very lengthy conversations downstairs. We appreciate you affording us that opportunity. I'm pleased to announce that I think we have an agreement, obviously subject to your approval with the Lasser owners who are still here. So, if it's okay, I'll go through with the terms that we believe are agreed to by the parties. That might be a good idea, Corey, for you to show you on the- Perfect. I think he was reading. We can show on the overhead, actually. We try. I said on Birmingham's BZA, we don't have anything fancy like this. Oh, if we make it to 10-30, we have late night snacks and drinks. I'm going to tell Jeff that and see if he'll start bringing in some chocolate cookies or something like that. We're going to order pizza? Yeah, exactly. So, the parties believe that it's in their both best interest to keep the court where it's currently built, but reduce the size to 30 by 50, so they'll cut off a 10-foot portion. Let's see. Shown there. That would be the portion that they've cut off. Sorry. What's your favorite part? there'll be no pickleball on the court as I mentioned the fence doesn't exactly follow the property line but they're going to agree to keep the fence where it is the proposed landscaping the the trees the arborvitae are going to be staggered on both sides of the fence to help create more screening yep I'll get there I got you I got you so the as it relates to those trees the party is going to work on trees that are 11 to 13 feet at the time of planning with a maturity height of 25 to 30 feet to further increase the the border between the properties you know obviously subject to any DT restrictions there is some some power lines that run in that area and the parties understand that DTE no matter what you play it may come in and chop the top of those trees off anyways

182. 3:46:15

     So, the parties believe that it's in their both best interest to keep the court where it's currently built, but reduce the size to 30 by 50, so they'll cut off a 10-foot portion. Let's see. Shown there. That would be the portion that they've cut off. Sorry. What's your favorite part? there'll be no pickleball on the court as I mentioned the fence doesn't exactly follow the property line but they're going to agree to keep the fence where it is the proposed landscaping the the trees the arborvitae are going to be staggered on both sides of the fence to help create more screening yep I'll get there I got you I got you so the as it relates to those trees the party is going to work on trees that are 11 to 13 feet at the time of planning with a maturity height of 25 to 30 feet to further increase the the border between the properties you know obviously subject to any DT restrictions there is some some power lines that run in that area and the parties understand that DTE no matter what you play it may come in and chop the top of those trees off anyways but the goal is to put trees that are going to be 11 to 13 feet at the time of planting with a maturity height of 25 to 30 feet the there's been some conversations about music and I know music isn't part of this request but as an accommodation an agreement to try to better the relationship with between the parties the loss or owners have agreed that they'll contact the fantasies at the old if the advantage is music is ever too loud and the advantages will adjust the levels accordingly they want to be good neighbors i remember that came up at the prior two hearings so i'm glad to address that yeah you know they want to work together and really the concern is when uh the loss owners are on their terrace or balcony and you know having uh peers big at in the morning he doesn't want to hear um you know the kids music and that's that's certainly understandable and they understand sometimes on fourth of july there may be a little bit of a uh a party then the music may be a little bit louder they'll work together and i think this was a really good breakthrough between the parties this is a good we had a lot of discussion i'll just leave it at that but i think um the party's in agreement we we hope we find you find this acceptable to approve happy to answer any questions and they're still here if you have any questions as

183. 3:47:30

     matter what you play it may come in and chop the top of those trees off anyways but the goal is to put trees that are going to be 11 to 13 feet at the time of planting with a maturity height of 25 to 30 feet the there's been some conversations about music and I know music isn't part of this request but as an accommodation an agreement to try to better the relationship with between the parties the loss or owners have agreed that they'll contact the fantasies at the old if the advantage is music is ever too loud and the advantages will adjust the levels accordingly they want to be good neighbors i remember that came up at the prior two hearings so i'm glad to address that yeah you know they want to work together and really the concern is when uh the loss owners are on their terrace or balcony and you know having uh peers big at in the morning he doesn't want to hear um you know the kids music and that's that's certainly understandable and they understand sometimes on fourth of july there may be a little bit of a uh a party then the music may be a little bit louder they'll work together and i think this was a really good breakthrough between the parties this is a good we had a lot of discussion i'll just leave it at that but i think um the party's in agreement we we hope we find you find this acceptable to approve happy to answer any questions and they're still here if you have any questions as well so does that accurately reflect what yes i mean i'm saying yes with the condition that i don't read and i presume you read everything and i suppose this would be transferred somehow in a letter or something like that it's going to be in the minutes okay it's going to be in the minutes this is okay yeah i want to make sure that can i get a photo uh a couple of that yeah you should take a picture look at it yeah sure i want to show all that is reflected well ultimately it's going to be a motion made by the board whatever the motion is it'll be a motion made by the board right which will be the stipulation of the board can i see that yeah sorry my handwriting is not the best and after you know i was i was going to give you a b plus i think that's fairly okay sister gerontia would like that she would be okay with that that was pretty good after a long day and still no dinner i mean i'm kudos to everybody who's still here you didn't bring snacks no snacks fifth grade handwriting chairman henry sister gerontia couple questions yes go ahead so when you talk about the fence are you talking about the white fence you're talking about the fence for the pickle for the sports court oh i'm sorry that's a good clarification so you're going to be putting staggered trees that are 11 to 13 feet

184. 3:48:45

     acceptable to approve happy to answer any questions and they're still here if you have any questions as well so does that accurately reflect what yes i mean i'm saying yes with the condition that i don't read and i presume you read everything and i suppose this would be transferred somehow in a letter or something like that it's going to be in the minutes okay it's going to be in the minutes this is okay yeah i want to make sure that can i get a photo uh a couple of that yeah you should take a picture look at it yeah sure i want to show all that is reflected well ultimately it's going to be a motion made by the board whatever the motion is it'll be a motion made by the board right which will be the stipulation of the board can i see that yeah sorry my handwriting is not the best and after you know i was i was going to give you a b plus i think that's fairly okay sister gerontia would like that she would be okay with that that was pretty good after a long day and still no dinner i mean i'm kudos to everybody who's still here you didn't bring snacks no snacks fifth grade handwriting chairman henry sister gerontia couple questions yes go ahead so when you talk about the fence are you talking about the white fence you're talking about the fence for the pickle for the sports court oh i'm sorry that's a good clarification so you're going to be putting staggered trees that are 11 to 13 feet at time of planting on time of planting on both sides of that fence right so you see how there's two there's basically two lines are staggered right now kind of i'd love it to zoom in well so why don't you correct me if i'm wrong since i'm at the microphone and they can hear me better so where's our pointer do we have our pointer we can't see it number there you go oh so basically if you take the the closer line and you put it on the other side of the fence you know you're basically moving one line of trees if you want to look at that as two different lines so if you look at like this tree this tree this tree this one this one we'd be moving them over here onto this side of the fence and that is your property on their property it's still our property But so the because the fence doesn't go all the way to the property. Okay, so it's still on our property Sure It's kind of a settlement Better and Brian correct me if I'm wrong the line with the mouse here the line that you see over here

185. 3:50:00

     a good clarification so you're going to be putting staggered trees that are 11 to 13 feet at time of planting on time of planting on both sides of that fence right so you see how there's two there's basically two lines are staggered right now kind of i'd love it to zoom in well so why don't you correct me if i'm wrong since i'm at the microphone and they can hear me better so where's our pointer do we have our pointer we can't see it number there you go oh so basically if you take the the closer line and you put it on the other side of the fence you know you're basically moving one line of trees if you want to look at that as two different lines so if you look at like this tree this tree this tree this one this one we'd be moving them over here onto this side of the fence and that is your property on their property it's still our property But so the because the fence doesn't go all the way to the property. Okay, so it's still on our property Sure It's kind of a settlement Better and Brian correct me if I'm wrong the line with the mouse here the line that you see over here Over here Over there. Yeah, it's a property line Okay, in reality there's a fence that's a little bit within six to ten feet Which is not shown on the drawing barely visible and so we're going to keep the fence where it is Which is on the inside of their lot and essentially the trees that you see there will be ruffling the same place Except the fence is effectively in between those two I see you're gonna make sense. I have like a mirror mirror You're basically going to be screen you're going to be screening the fence. Yeah, right from both sides Got it. Yeah, that's a good point of clarification Only that distance or along that whole property line Okay, okay, and then what about we have an updated plan to see because I can see it from Lone Pine So you guys putting additional trees in front of the sports court because we can see the sports court now Yeah, there was also I think that is it the wiggly line is the arborbites That are not there because again, right you said during litigation. We did not plant those things, right? I got from the street

186. 3:51:15

     Better and Brian correct me if I'm wrong the line with the mouse here the line that you see over here Over here Over there. Yeah, it's a property line Okay, in reality there's a fence that's a little bit within six to ten feet Which is not shown on the drawing barely visible and so we're going to keep the fence where it is Which is on the inside of their lot and essentially the trees that you see there will be ruffling the same place Except the fence is effectively in between those two I see you're gonna make sense. I have like a mirror mirror You're basically going to be screen you're going to be screening the fence. Yeah, right from both sides Got it. Yeah, that's a good point of clarification Only that distance or along that whole property line Okay, okay, and then what about we have an updated plan to see because I can see it from Lone Pine So you guys putting additional trees in front of the sports court because we can see the sports court now Yeah, there was also I think that is it the wiggly line is the arborbites That are not there because again, right you said during litigation. We did not plant those things, right? I got from the street from the street, what about the front? You're talking about from the Stonely? Where am I, I gotta find it. Go to the pictures. So, yeah. So again, as we, we're trying to get you there, right? We're like 90% of the way there. I just, we can't see it from Stonely. So where do you guys wanna, when I make this motion, where are we gonna put additional trees so that I can't see anything from Stonely? Are you thinking to have, this is the fence line, right? Yeah. So are you suggesting arborvitaes along this fence line? I don't, I can't see the fence you guys have around your sports court. I can see it now. There's no landscaping plan for the front. So I super appreciate what you've been able to do here. We're like 90% there. Would you be willing to put the same type of trees along the fence line in front there, along the Stonely? Yeah, I mean, if we have to, sure. Great. That sounds great to me. Great to people. No, well. Yeah, you just get sunscreen and not fill the same size. Right. I was gonna suggest those same size.

187. 3:52:30

     from the street, what about the front? You're talking about from the Stonely? Where am I, I gotta find it. Go to the pictures. So, yeah. So again, as we, we're trying to get you there, right? We're like 90% of the way there. I just, we can't see it from Stonely. So where do you guys wanna, when I make this motion, where are we gonna put additional trees so that I can't see anything from Stonely? Are you thinking to have, this is the fence line, right? Yeah. So are you suggesting arborvitaes along this fence line? I don't, I can't see the fence you guys have around your sports court. I can see it now. There's no landscaping plan for the front. So I super appreciate what you've been able to do here. We're like 90% there. Would you be willing to put the same type of trees along the fence line in front there, along the Stonely? Yeah, I mean, if we have to, sure. Great. That sounds great to me. Great to people. No, well. Yeah, you just get sunscreen and not fill the same size. Right. I was gonna suggest those same size. No, I... Chris, I appreciate it. I think the arborvitae along there is okay. I don't think you have to make them. Okay, as long as we can do something, because you have an eighth. How big is your fencing around that sports court? You also have an entrance in there, too, because we have a little, like, yeah. You do. Yeah, you do. Okay. Screen somehow. I'm sorry? No, you're right. And you have that little gate to get inside that side. Yeah. But the point is, you have to, you have to, I can't see the sports court from Stonely. So I'm going to make a motion that you guys have to screen it. Whether it's inside your property, inside the fence, I can't see it. So to your landscape architect. You got me? Yep. Okay. But what's, what's the distance from the sports court from Stonely? Roughly. You can see it from the street. I can see it from the street. No, I know you can see it. Wait a minute, wait a minute. There's, that's the proposal, but it's what they're looking at is the one that swung the other way. Correct. Where it's currently built. Yeah, so when I drove by today, I could still see everything in front. Yes. It's the, it's the.

188. 3:53:45

     I was gonna suggest those same size. No, I... Chris, I appreciate it. I think the arborvitae along there is okay. I don't think you have to make them. Okay, as long as we can do something, because you have an eighth. How big is your fencing around that sports court? You also have an entrance in there, too, because we have a little, like, yeah. You do. Yeah, you do. Okay. Screen somehow. I'm sorry? No, you're right. And you have that little gate to get inside that side. Yeah. But the point is, you have to, you have to, I can't see the sports court from Stonely. So I'm going to make a motion that you guys have to screen it. Whether it's inside your property, inside the fence, I can't see it. So to your landscape architect. You got me? Yep. Okay. But what's, what's the distance from the sports court from Stonely? Roughly. You can see it from the street. I can see it from the street. No, I know you can see it. Wait a minute, wait a minute. There's, that's the proposal, but it's what they're looking at is the one that swung the other way. Correct. Where it's currently built. Yeah, so when I drove by today, I could still see everything in front. Yes. It's the, it's the. Staying in the current location, just shortening. Becoming smaller. Correct. With, with these additional screening features. Correct. Yep. Got it. So, okay, so I'm going to make a motion that it'll be more than eight feet for whatever screening you have along Stonely. You guys are more than, I believe, have amazing plantings and are going to make sure that this isn't an issue, right? I think we want to get this behind us, don't we? I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. Thank you. Do we have four votes? Shorten? No, but I don't see it. Whether it's this way, it's not going to be a list of this. Mr. Henry, I'm asking if I make a motion, do I have four other people that are, do they have any other objections or thoughts? No, I want to commend all of you for reaching this. You know, I was thinking back, unfortunately, you have to go through litigation and all this time to get to this point. I appreciate the Lord, and I have an open mind, but I truly want to thank you all for this. We love what you're doing. We just want everybody to. Do you remember all of these? Yes. You do? Yeah, I remember both of them. No, I was just saying the rendition, the new amendments. You want me to do it?

189. 3:55:00

     Staying in the current location, just shortening. Becoming smaller. Correct. With, with these additional screening features. Correct. Yep. Got it. So, okay, so I'm going to make a motion that it'll be more than eight feet for whatever screening you have along Stonely. You guys are more than, I believe, have amazing plantings and are going to make sure that this isn't an issue, right? I think we want to get this behind us, don't we? I think so. I think so. I think so. I think so. Thank you. Do we have four votes? Shorten? No, but I don't see it. Whether it's this way, it's not going to be a list of this. Mr. Henry, I'm asking if I make a motion, do I have four other people that are, do they have any other objections or thoughts? No, I want to commend all of you for reaching this. You know, I was thinking back, unfortunately, you have to go through litigation and all this time to get to this point. I appreciate the Lord, and I have an open mind, but I truly want to thank you all for this. We love what you're doing. We just want everybody to. Do you remember all of these? Yes. You do? Yeah, I remember both of them. No, I was just saying the rendition, the new amendments. You want me to do it? I can do it. Okay, you got it. Do you want to pass it to me? Oh, no, then you got it, Carol. Go ahead. I don't know. I've done plenty today. Okay. All right. With respect to property located at 4955 Stonelay Road, let's see. I first moved to grant the request for a permission for the sports court because the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. The size and use and location of the structure is compatible with adjoining properties, and it is appropriate for the neighborhood. With respect to the dimensional variance, I am going, oh, wait. I have to put the permission with that. All right. All right. Thank you. Okay, it's going to be the following conditions on the permission approval. Yeah. First, the size of the court is going to be reduced from 30 by 60 to 30 by 50, with the 10 feet being removed from the west, is it west? Northwest. Northwest side of the existing court. Second.

190. 3:56:15

     You want me to do it? I can do it. Okay, you got it. Do you want to pass it to me? Oh, no, then you got it, Carol. Go ahead. I don't know. I've done plenty today. Okay. All right. With respect to property located at 4955 Stonelay Road, let's see. I first moved to grant the request for a permission for the sports court because the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards. The size and use and location of the structure is compatible with adjoining properties, and it is appropriate for the neighborhood. With respect to the dimensional variance, I am going, oh, wait. I have to put the permission with that. All right. All right. Thank you. Okay, it's going to be the following conditions on the permission approval. Yeah. First, the size of the court is going to be reduced from 30 by 60 to 30 by 50, with the 10 feet being removed from the west, is it west? Northwest. Northwest side of the existing court. Second. The applicant will install additional evergreen plantings, and they will include staggering the trees on the outside of the fence along the rear lot line, all the way down, and they will be 11 to 13 feet at the time of planting, with a maturity height of 25 to 30 feet, subject to DTE coming in and cutting them down. All right. Now, I can put a condition on that they won't play pickleball. You talked about that, but we really can't enforce that. But I'm just going to simply say for the record that the parties here have agreed that they won't play pickleball. The record can note that. The parties have also agreed. The ballpark has also agreed that they might do their work alongside others, and go to the lobby next to they wouldn't do their work with film. that they will keep the music at a reasonable volume and if there's any question about the music that they will contact each other and adjust the levels accordingly in addition we're going to require evergreen plantings along the

191. 3:57:30

     Second. The applicant will install additional evergreen plantings, and they will include staggering the trees on the outside of the fence along the rear lot line, all the way down, and they will be 11 to 13 feet at the time of planting, with a maturity height of 25 to 30 feet, subject to DTE coming in and cutting them down. All right. Now, I can put a condition on that they won't play pickleball. You talked about that, but we really can't enforce that. But I'm just going to simply say for the record that the parties here have agreed that they won't play pickleball. The record can note that. The parties have also agreed. The ballpark has also agreed that they might do their work alongside others, and go to the lobby next to they wouldn't do their work with film. that they will keep the music at a reasonable volume and if there's any question about the music that they will contact each other and adjust the levels accordingly in addition we're going to require evergreen plantings along the side to screen the sports court from stone lay drive as well and we'll do those at the same height of plantings as the rest with respect to the dimensional variance did I get it all that's perfect one other is that we are going to require a civil engineering plan for stormwater management for the updated sports court needed civil engineering plan okay and no illumination okay with respect the dimensional variance I would move to approve that because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty of allowing the eight-foot netting is appropriate for the sports court to keep the balls in the court and it's not self created if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days and the additional evergreen plantings will be required as we stated so that the sports court is completely screened from public view and no illumination is permitted on the sports court and use of the sports court is limited to daytime hours

192. 3:58:45

     accordingly in addition we're going to require evergreen plantings along the side to screen the sports court from stone lay drive as well and we'll do those at the same height of plantings as the rest with respect to the dimensional variance did I get it all that's perfect one other is that we are going to require a civil engineering plan for stormwater management for the updated sports court needed civil engineering plan okay and no illumination okay with respect the dimensional variance I would move to approve that because the applicant has demonstrated practical difficulty of allowing the eight-foot netting is appropriate for the sports court to keep the balls in the court and it's not self created if approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days and the additional evergreen plantings will be required as we stated so that the sports court is completely screened from public view and no illumination is permitted on the sports court and use of the sports court is limited to daytime hours for the existing court for the permit for the permit you have to get a permit and the plantings are going to be have to have to be installed no later than i'm going to make it may 1st of 20 recommending may 31st with weather all right may 31st and the amount of trees we're asking him to get will be hard to procure in that time plan so support so when can you get them when can you get all right i'll give you i'll give you until july 1st okay 2026 support july 1st before that we want to before you have your party yeah before july 1st we have a motion to support so we have a motion support any discussion of this motion good i don't know all those in favor say aye aye congratulations

193. 4:00:00

     for the existing court for the permit for the permit you have to get a permit and the plantings are going to be have to have to be installed no later than i'm going to make it may 1st of 20 recommending may 31st with weather all right may 31st and the amount of trees we're asking him to get will be hard to procure in that time plan so support so when can you get them when can you get all right i'll give you i'll give you until july 1st okay 2026 support july 1st before that we want to before you have your party yeah before july 1st we have a motion to support so we have a motion support any discussion of this motion good i don't know all those in favor say aye aye congratulations mr chairman i'd like to make a motion that we adjourn do we have a motion to adjourn support All those in favor say aye. Aye.