the-compact
Zoning Board Of Appeals Wednesday, January 14, 2026 · 226 min

Bloomfield Township Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting on January 13, 2026

Summary

The city council meeting discussed various variance requests, zoning issues, and development projects, including a car wash, market, and residential additions, with neighbors expressing concerns about signage, noise, and impact on their properties.

  • A variance was approved for a generator placement at 3278 Barron Drive with screening and permits required within a year.
  • The city council approved a request for a hot tub and gas fire pit at a residence with conditions.
  • A monument sign for the new DFCU location was proposed for the accessory road near the shopping center and approved.
  • The city council discussed and approved a request for a new structure with signs and a curb cut at 2165 Telegraph Road.
  • A variance was requested to place a generator 20 feet from a building, rather than the required 5 feet, and approved with screening and permits required within a year.

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Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. Good evening. It's 6.30. We'll get started by saying the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. As a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees per the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium, address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the numbers of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confide. to the specific request before the Board. For a request to be successful, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. I'd like to say that Item 3 has been postponed. That's 4-9-5-5 Stonely. That will not be heard this evening. So if you're here for that, that's been postponed. I'd also like to acknowledge that we have a group of students from Bloomfield Hills High School here who have very courageously decided to sit in the front row. So anything you say or do here this evening will certainly have an impact on them. I hope they find this meeting educational and that we meet their expectations. So with that, let's take attendance.

  2. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confide. to the specific request before the Board. For a request to be successful, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. I'd like to say that Item 3 has been postponed. That's 4-9-5-5 Stonely. That will not be heard this evening. So if you're here for that, that's been postponed. I'd also like to acknowledge that we have a group of students from Bloomfield Hills High School here who have very courageously decided to sit in the front row. So anything you say or do here this evening will certainly have an impact on them. I hope they find this meeting educational and that we meet their expectations. So with that, let's take attendance. So noted. And then I'd like a motion to approve or amend the minutes from December 9th, 2025. So moved. Support. So I have a motion and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The minutes are approved. So we'll call the first item. Item 1P6470, Gulfview Dry. Is the applicant ready? Thank you. That's great. That was it, good evening board my name is uh dan mcleish from mcleish building representing the owner at 6470 gulf u drive for the items in front of you this evening and um to kind of we have several on there so i'll kind of keep a brief overall on those uh when we first designed the house uh originally the house was going to the garage was going to face the gulf u side of the site and uh and further looking at it the owner we looked at switching the site to um actually can we pull up the site um there's a colored landscape plan that might be easier for

  3. So noted. And then I'd like a motion to approve or amend the minutes from December 9th, 2025. So moved. Support. So I have a motion and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The minutes are approved. So we'll call the first item. Item 1P6470, Gulfview Dry. Is the applicant ready? Thank you. That's great. That was it, good evening board my name is uh dan mcleish from mcleish building representing the owner at 6470 gulf u drive for the items in front of you this evening and um to kind of we have several on there so i'll kind of keep a brief overall on those uh when we first designed the house uh originally the house was going to the garage was going to face the gulf u side of the site and uh and further looking at it the owner we looked at switching the site to um actually can we pull up the site um there's a colored landscape plan that might be easier for the board okay there was a color okay that's fine so um so the the right side of the house here okay which is faces gulf u um oh oh no i can see it we can't yeah oh i'm sorry oh you can't oh i'm sorry it's fine all right oh okay i thought you could sorry i thought you'd be losing um so we we rotated the garage to um be on the west side of the property now and therefore it triggered a couple items um the first item was the retaining wall on the west side of the property um were presented before you know retaining wall also that sake of ease getting into the garage through that. And then we can also create a level area to where we can screen both properties. The other one that is in front of you is the rear yard retaining wall for a pool. Typical pool in Michigan is around 20 feet. We shrunk this to about 12 feet. And we have a six-foot easement in the backyard as well. So that kind of plays into it.

  4. the board okay there was a color okay that's fine so um so the the right side of the house here okay which is faces gulf u um oh oh no i can see it we can't yeah oh i'm sorry oh you can't oh i'm sorry it's fine all right oh okay i thought you could sorry i thought you'd be losing um so we we rotated the garage to um be on the west side of the property now and therefore it triggered a couple items um the first item was the retaining wall on the west side of the property um were presented before you know retaining wall also that sake of ease getting into the garage through that. And then we can also create a level area to where we can screen both properties. The other one that is in front of you is the rear yard retaining wall for a pool. Typical pool in Michigan is around 20 feet. We shrunk this to about 12 feet. And we have a six-foot easement in the backyard as well. So that kind of plays into it. There's also a drainage issue with the Oakland Hills golf course. We've consulted with them a few times on it. And so this is what we kind of basically developed with the golf course, proposing a retaining wall to help out with some of the drainage issues that they have as well through there. The other large one would be on the right side of the house. There's five ground-mounted units, three ACs, generator, and potential pool equipment. And we show those as well on that side because all the gas electrical comes from the east side of the home. We show it with a screen fence, with a hard surface fence, and then we also are showing it with evergreen screening as well through there. Do you have any of the 3D color pictures? Everything I play with is what we got. I have a drive. Let's do this. I'll shoot. Thank you.

  5. So that kind of plays into it. There's also a drainage issue with the Oakland Hills golf course. We've consulted with them a few times on it. And so this is what we kind of basically developed with the golf course, proposing a retaining wall to help out with some of the drainage issues that they have as well through there. The other large one would be on the right side of the house. There's five ground-mounted units, three ACs, generator, and potential pool equipment. And we show those as well on that side because all the gas electrical comes from the east side of the home. We show it with a screen fence, with a hard surface fence, and then we also are showing it with evergreen screening as well through there. Do you have any of the 3D color pictures? Everything I play with is what we got. I have a drive. Let's do this. I'll shoot. Thank you. Do you know what he's talking about? I'm sorry? Do you know what he's talking about? Geez, I don't. Sorry. Well, I guess that was the fence we were proposing right there. But then in the 3D color drawings, it shows it all in color a little bit more detail. If you go to the next one, yeah, right there. So that's the east side of the house, the Gulfview side. So that greenery that's up near the home, that's where we proposed the ground-mounted units for there. And then also we had proposed the stone columns and wing walls at the entranceway along with the wing walls in this picture as well. The wing walls up by the home, that helps kind of screen the motor court as well through there. That's the rear yard view, the proposed retaining wall. That would be if we're standing on the golf course looking back at the home as well. And then-

  6. Do you know what he's talking about? I'm sorry? Do you know what he's talking about? Geez, I don't. Sorry. Well, I guess that was the fence we were proposing right there. But then in the 3D color drawings, it shows it all in color a little bit more detail. If you go to the next one, yeah, right there. So that's the east side of the house, the Gulfview side. So that greenery that's up near the home, that's where we proposed the ground-mounted units for there. And then also we had proposed the stone columns and wing walls at the entranceway along with the wing walls in this picture as well. The wing walls up by the home, that helps kind of screen the motor court as well through there. That's the rear yard view, the proposed retaining wall. That would be if we're standing on the golf course looking back at the home as well. And then- If you go to one more there, next one. To the right of that view right there, we show an extension of the home with a barbecue grilling area as well. I think there should be one more where you can see the hot tub. Keep going. Right, well, okay, right there. So one of the other various requests is for an above-ground hot tub on the west side between the two neighbors. We picked that area just because it was kind of out of sight, out of mind from the golf course and for all the other neighbors as well. Consulted with the HOA. I've heard from one of the neighbors via a letter. Reached out to him via text to meet him. He was unavailable to meet. I would have thought about meeting him prior, but so far he's 300, 400 feet away from the home, or else I would have actually reached out to him earlier besides yesterday because Andrew had passed on his letter from last week to me. So as well, HOA, I didn't really get anything back from them. I did consult with them, but they told me that they, well, if they're here, I'll let them speak wherever they would like to. So it's a matter of time.

  7. If you go to one more there, next one. To the right of that view right there, we show an extension of the home with a barbecue grilling area as well. I think there should be one more where you can see the hot tub. Keep going. Right, well, okay, right there. So one of the other various requests is for an above-ground hot tub on the west side between the two neighbors. We picked that area just because it was kind of out of sight, out of mind from the golf course and for all the other neighbors as well. Consulted with the HOA. I've heard from one of the neighbors via a letter. Reached out to him via text to meet him. He was unavailable to meet. I would have thought about meeting him prior, but so far he's 300, 400 feet away from the home, or else I would have actually reached out to him earlier besides yesterday because Andrew had passed on his letter from last week to me. So as well, HOA, I didn't really get anything back from them. I did consult with them, but they told me that they, well, if they're here, I'll let them speak wherever they would like to. So it's a matter of time. I may not go into further detail, but I'll leave it at that for now. Do we have any questions from the board? Not yet. Okay. I'd like to open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this item? Sure. Sure. Okay. You can step forward and just give us your name and address. Yeah. Hi, everybody. Greg Turcotte. I live at 6455 Gulfview Drive, so I am slightly north and east of the property, probably the closest house besides Dave Colucci, who lives to the west. And I guess my only comment is I don't approve of the variance request. The bypassing the setbacks just don't seem to make sense. The house is bigger than the property could afford. So that's all I wanted to share tonight. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on the side? Okay. Good evening. I'm Dave Robinson. I'm the president of the Oakland Hills Country Club Subdivision Association,

  8. So it's a matter of time. I may not go into further detail, but I'll leave it at that for now. Do we have any questions from the board? Not yet. Okay. I'd like to open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this item? Sure. Sure. Okay. You can step forward and just give us your name and address. Yeah. Hi, everybody. Greg Turcotte. I live at 6455 Gulfview Drive, so I am slightly north and east of the property, probably the closest house besides Dave Colucci, who lives to the west. And I guess my only comment is I don't approve of the variance request. The bypassing the setbacks just don't seem to make sense. The house is bigger than the property could afford. So that's all I wanted to share tonight. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on the side? Okay. Good evening. I'm Dave Robinson. I'm the president of the Oakland Hills Country Club Subdivision Association, and so I'm representing the association. And on behalf of the association, we are opposed based upon the fact that the six required exceeds the township required setbacks. That's all. Any questions? So your objection is the shouldn't grant any of the variances for setbacks? Just the variances, the six ones. The day age group is taken into the sevens. we were provided by the builder exceed the township zoning requirements okay okay thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item all right so i'll close public hearing and then let the applicant respond well the one comment about this home is too large for the site don't know exact percentage but the allowable buildable area we probably could have built 25 to 30 percent more a larger of a home as well um in the way we oriented and why we had to come for the board is the view you're looking at at the bottom of the screen the gulf view side we rotated the house so that as neighbors drove down gulf view the first

  9. I'm the president of the Oakland Hills Country Club Subdivision Association, and so I'm representing the association. And on behalf of the association, we are opposed based upon the fact that the six required exceeds the township required setbacks. That's all. Any questions? So your objection is the shouldn't grant any of the variances for setbacks? Just the variances, the six ones. The day age group is taken into the sevens. we were provided by the builder exceed the township zoning requirements okay okay thank you is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item all right so i'll close public hearing and then let the applicant respond well the one comment about this home is too large for the site don't know exact percentage but the allowable buildable area we probably could have built 25 to 30 percent more a larger of a home as well um in the way we oriented and why we had to come for the board is the view you're looking at at the bottom of the screen the gulf view side we rotated the house so that as neighbors drove down gulf view the first thing you didn't see was all garage doors the previous house was like that they had a large driveway that came down along there so the owner we're building for was okay flopping the house we probably incurred an extra 70 80 percent in paving costs to wrap a driveway from gulf view all the way over to the other side if the board grants us retaining walls on the west side we'll have that expense um we'll have the expense of screening the entire yard okay which the only area that is not screened is right there in the gulf view where the driveway enters and then obviously on the gulf use or the gulf court side for visual reasons so they could see the view um that way we thought about this very thoroughly um the right the side of the house you're looking on gulf view that's where the furnaces are in the home as well and so it makes sense to put the acs there because for efficiency purposes for the house to cool during the summer months that's the most efficient way uh the power comes off the utility pull at the bottom left side of the screen as well so that's the shortest run for it um gas is along

  10. screen the gulf view side we rotated the house so that as neighbors drove down gulf view the first thing you didn't see was all garage doors the previous house was like that they had a large driveway that came down along there so the owner we're building for was okay flopping the house we probably incurred an extra 70 80 percent in paving costs to wrap a driveway from gulf view all the way over to the other side if the board grants us retaining walls on the west side we'll have that expense um we'll have the expense of screening the entire yard okay which the only area that is not screened is right there in the gulf view where the driveway enters and then obviously on the gulf use or the gulf court side for visual reasons so they could see the view um that way we thought about this very thoroughly um the right the side of the house you're looking on gulf view that's where the furnaces are in the home as well and so it makes sense to put the acs there because for efficiency purposes for the house to cool during the summer months that's the most efficient way uh the power comes off the utility pull at the bottom left side of the screen as well so that's the shortest run for it um gas is along the natural gas is along that side of the road as well for you know hook into a generator as well one second please and you know the other item if we would have had the house rotated back to the gulf view side as well um you know and taking consideration this is a corner lot too so it has its challenges um but i think that you know it was well thought through between all the architects and the owner and everybody involved for this uh and we would you know appreciate draining the um variances tonight any uh questions from the board as for the the spa the hot tub that you have is there a special reason why you put it where it's going to be located or yes because we feared it was probably the it took up the least amount of lawn space it was kind of a you know i don't want to say wasted

  11. pull at the bottom left side of the screen as well so that's the shortest run for it um gas is along the natural gas is along that side of the road as well for you know hook into a generator as well one second please and you know the other item if we would have had the house rotated back to the gulf view side as well um you know and taking consideration this is a corner lot too so it has its challenges um but i think that you know it was well thought through between all the architects and the owner and everybody involved for this uh and we would you know appreciate draining the um variances tonight any uh questions from the board as for the the spa the hot tub that you have is there a special reason why you put it where it's going to be located or yes because we feared it was probably the it took up the least amount of lawn space it was kind of a you know i don't want to say wasted area of the yard but it just kind of tucked itself tightly up into that corner of the yard um we're 100 screened to the neighbor to the west um you can't see it from maple road the home blocks it from the east view and then the only other view that anybody could really see it if you're a member of the golf course and you're walking on the golf course you might see it there so that was a reason why we just thought that was you know the tightest spot to put that can we make any other public comments on that no uh no once once the public hearing is closed there aren't any more comments permitted okay look at the plot plan of the neighborhood though there's a house right there because that's one of the areas where you're encroaching i think it was 10 feet into the 16 foot setback if i see this correctly yeah the hot tub have you communicated with a neighbor to the west and have you gotten blessing from them on this yes um my yes we did meet with them or dropped them off the drawings but we have not

  12. the it took up the least amount of lawn space it was kind of a you know i don't want to say wasted area of the yard but it just kind of tucked itself tightly up into that corner of the yard um we're 100 screened to the neighbor to the west um you can't see it from maple road the home blocks it from the east view and then the only other view that anybody could really see it if you're a member of the golf course and you're walking on the golf course you might see it there so that was a reason why we just thought that was you know the tightest spot to put that can we make any other public comments on that no uh no once once the public hearing is closed there aren't any more comments permitted okay look at the plot plan of the neighborhood though there's a house right there because that's one of the areas where you're encroaching i think it was 10 feet into the 16 foot setback if i see this correctly yeah the hot tub have you communicated with a neighbor to the west and have you gotten blessing from them on this yes um my yes we did meet with them or dropped them off the drawings but we have not heard anything back from him. When did you drop him off the draw? A week ago, I believe it was. Obviously, they were noticed for this, but having them on board, that is a pretty big encroachment. Yes, and we tried via email getting his phone number. We went, you know, we had to go knock on his door to get his contact info, and we reached out to the HOA last week to get phone numbers for all the board members, but for the owner, the trustee that handles the owner's trust, email had to go to him, and I don't even know if he still received all the numbers and contact info for all the HOA members as well, because we were trying to set something up to meet with them. And I originally would have set something up to meet with them, but when we originally started down this road, I believe it was last July or August, the gentleman that spoke. That was the answer I got from Gary Weinhardt, if I said it right, from the HOA that the board doesn't want to meet about any of the HOA or any of the variances. So just kindly, we reached out to them. I got a timeline several times to let them know that this has been tabled for multiple reasons, and just letting them know I was very communicative with them. Just as of last, I believe it was Tuesday, I think they sent me a screenshot of a text about

  13. heard anything back from him. When did you drop him off the draw? A week ago, I believe it was. Obviously, they were noticed for this, but having them on board, that is a pretty big encroachment. Yes, and we tried via email getting his phone number. We went, you know, we had to go knock on his door to get his contact info, and we reached out to the HOA last week to get phone numbers for all the board members, but for the owner, the trustee that handles the owner's trust, email had to go to him, and I don't even know if he still received all the numbers and contact info for all the HOA members as well, because we were trying to set something up to meet with them. And I originally would have set something up to meet with them, but when we originally started down this road, I believe it was last July or August, the gentleman that spoke. That was the answer I got from Gary Weinhardt, if I said it right, from the HOA that the board doesn't want to meet about any of the HOA or any of the variances. So just kindly, we reached out to them. I got a timeline several times to let them know that this has been tabled for multiple reasons, and just letting them know I was very communicative with them. Just as of last, I believe it was Tuesday, I think they sent me a screenshot of a text about a couple questions, really about the fence in the backyard. And so then I reached out again to them, like, okay, now are you guys open for having... in an open dialogue now and he said no so you know I don't know why they're asking me really about the fence questions on you know I was hoping they're reaching out to you know meet with us and walk through all these items as well just so if they what are concerns they had we could address it ahead of this meeting what's the type of illumination that's on the piers electric so what what type of light is that is the light how what size yeah I mean it might be 24 inches tall okay yeah it's right yeah and that picture right there to the left oh I see the light minimal light you know just something just to accent the driveway so you see it coming off the road as well that way in another common was brought the driveway versus off of Maple Road is because donor had can safety concerns pulling out on the Maple Road so he's got young

  14. them. Just as of last, I believe it was Tuesday, I think they sent me a screenshot of a text about a couple questions, really about the fence in the backyard. And so then I reached out again to them, like, okay, now are you guys open for having... in an open dialogue now and he said no so you know I don't know why they're asking me really about the fence questions on you know I was hoping they're reaching out to you know meet with us and walk through all these items as well just so if they what are concerns they had we could address it ahead of this meeting what's the type of illumination that's on the piers electric so what what type of light is that is the light how what size yeah I mean it might be 24 inches tall okay yeah it's right yeah and that picture right there to the left oh I see the light minimal light you know just something just to accent the driveway so you see it coming off the road as well that way in another common was brought the driveway versus off of Maple Road is because donor had can safety concerns pulling out on the Maple Road so he's got young kids and if you had a you know sitter with the kids or something like that so they like to have in the driveway come out on the Gulfview versus on the Maple Road any other questions from the board is this still gonna be a Gulfview address yes sir I'm struggling with the hot tub and yeah and so I am two so a lot of the variances are due the fact he's got two frontages so yeah so those are okay but it just that that hot tub is a pretty significant encroachment you haven't gotten contact you know with the homeowner so i don't feel comfortable with that you know particularly because of how far it's encroaching in the use itself and it would have been a lot better if you would have told me that you had a letter from them saying that they're okay with it absolutely we we knocked on his door we tried going those routes to you know see what concerns he would have and there was no comment about it i didn't i mean i didn't want to really push the guy we asked for a cell number he wouldn't give us a cell phone number so it wasn't like wow we didn't try we're not faulting you we're just explaining how we feel about that request okay so i mean if this

  15. donor had can safety concerns pulling out on the Maple Road so he's got young kids and if you had a you know sitter with the kids or something like that so they like to have in the driveway come out on the Gulfview versus on the Maple Road any other questions from the board is this still gonna be a Gulfview address yes sir I'm struggling with the hot tub and yeah and so I am two so a lot of the variances are due the fact he's got two frontages so yeah so those are okay but it just that that hot tub is a pretty significant encroachment you haven't gotten contact you know with the homeowner so i don't feel comfortable with that you know particularly because of how far it's encroaching in the use itself and it would have been a lot better if you would have told me that you had a letter from them saying that they're okay with it absolutely we we knocked on his door we tried going those routes to you know see what concerns he would have and there was no comment about it i didn't i mean i didn't want to really push the guy we asked for a cell number he wouldn't give us a cell phone number so it wasn't like wow we didn't try we're not faulting you we're just explaining how we feel about that request okay so i mean if this is any to help if we would table that request i'm fine with that the hot tub's not the end of the world there's another spot in the backyard that we could put it um so that's a great comment right but i'm just let's follow up on that could you put it somewhere else so if we voted on everything else yes okay we denied that then you'd have to go somewhere else we just thought it was i'm trying to help you here fine is that good yes sir because you got a motion you can always come back when you have that neighbor's approval and it would be a lot easier for us to allow you to be within five feet of their parking lot but you got to be careful sorry if you're going to deny it prejudice so he can go back in the same spot or i i like going to another location then he sort of yeah yeah it's fine we have another location we just thought okay for everybody neighborhood whatever we thought that that was the best place okay so there is a spot on the golf course side that we definitely can put it you know within them that would impact we're not approving that just so you know he'd have to come back yeah you'll be i know you'll be back so i think we have a motion so the only point would be i guess if you did it without prejudice

  16. try we're not faulting you we're just explaining how we feel about that request okay so i mean if this is any to help if we would table that request i'm fine with that the hot tub's not the end of the world there's another spot in the backyard that we could put it um so that's a great comment right but i'm just let's follow up on that could you put it somewhere else so if we voted on everything else yes okay we denied that then you'd have to go somewhere else we just thought it was i'm trying to help you here fine is that good yes sir because you got a motion you can always come back when you have that neighbor's approval and it would be a lot easier for us to allow you to be within five feet of their parking lot but you got to be careful sorry if you're going to deny it prejudice so he can go back in the same spot or i i like going to another location then he sort of yeah yeah it's fine we have another location we just thought okay for everybody neighborhood whatever we thought that that was the best place okay so there is a spot on the golf course side that we definitely can put it you know within them that would impact we're not approving that just so you know he'd have to come back yeah you'll be i know you'll be back so i think we have a motion so the only point would be i guess if you did it without prejudice he could come back in the same spot with his letter or he could pick the other spot or you could say i have two options sure that might even be better whatever you think of that um that's great so can we have a motion you think i guess you're looking for me that sounds great yeah i would like to make a motion um let's go with the dimensional variances um well first i would like to make a motion without prejudice that we deny the variance for the hot tub encroaching 10 feet into the required 16th step westerly setback based on the fact that the with again no prejudice that um you this was self-created at this time okay that's that's good do i need to get a motion and we approve that like don't we or no so that's a motion is there a second support so motion and support All those in favor of the motion to deny the request for the variance for the hot tub and its encroachment, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? So that's denied without prejudice.

  17. so i think we have a motion so the only point would be i guess if you did it without prejudice he could come back in the same spot with his letter or he could pick the other spot or you could say i have two options sure that might even be better whatever you think of that um that's great so can we have a motion you think i guess you're looking for me that sounds great yeah i would like to make a motion um let's go with the dimensional variances um well first i would like to make a motion without prejudice that we deny the variance for the hot tub encroaching 10 feet into the required 16th step westerly setback based on the fact that the with again no prejudice that um you this was self-created at this time okay that's that's good do i need to get a motion and we approve that like don't we or no so that's a motion is there a second support so motion and support All those in favor of the motion to deny the request for the variance for the hot tub and its encroachment, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? So that's denied without prejudice. Okay. Okay. Now let's have the next motion on the other items. Perfect. So the permission request. In regards to the appeal at 6470 Gulfview for the accessory structures regarding the, I believe it's going to be the fence, the retaining wall. Pool. Pool. Two feet. And the ground mechanical. Yeah. You have a four foot pool fence. And then the four three foot high retaining walls with five foot high illuminated piers located on Gulfview and Maple Road frontages. Yep. As well as the five mechanical units on Gulfview. I move that request be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of the accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood. If this motion is passed, all applications for necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Additional evergreen screenings shall be required along as presented in your packet. So again, specifically for those ground mechanical greenage, I want that to be planted at time of insulation.

  18. So that's denied without prejudice. Okay. Okay. Now let's have the next motion on the other items. Perfect. So the permission request. In regards to the appeal at 6470 Gulfview for the accessory structures regarding the, I believe it's going to be the fence, the retaining wall. Pool. Pool. Two feet. And the ground mechanical. Yeah. You have a four foot pool fence. And then the four three foot high retaining walls with five foot high illuminated piers located on Gulfview and Maple Road frontages. Yep. As well as the five mechanical units on Gulfview. I move that request be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-76 standards because the use of the accessory structures is appropriate to the neighborhood. If this motion is passed, all applications for necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Additional evergreen screenings shall be required along as presented in your packet. So again, specifically for those ground mechanical greenage, I want that to be planted at time of insulation. up to the height of it. You know this but putting it on record. And yeah, installation of those type of plantings must be at or exceeding the height of the structures at time of installation for 12 months of the year. Support. I have motion to support any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Those permission requests are granted so now we have the dimensional variances. Yes, so in regards to the appeal at 6470 Gulfview for the height and setback variances as submitted in our packet. I move the variances to be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because it is a corner lot, so you have two front yard setbacks. There's no injustice to adjoining labors based on the fact that we're going to be screening all of this and screening the entire area. Unique circumstances, a lot have been demonstrated because of the fact that it is a corner lot. So we have two front yard setbacks. This is not self graded because again, it is a corner lot. We've already tried to make accommodations to ensure that garages aren't there and we have tried to screen from all of our neighbors. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction.

  19. up to the height of it. You know this but putting it on record. And yeah, installation of those type of plantings must be at or exceeding the height of the structures at time of installation for 12 months of the year. Support. I have motion to support any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Those permission requests are granted so now we have the dimensional variances. Yes, so in regards to the appeal at 6470 Gulfview for the height and setback variances as submitted in our packet. I move the variances to be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because it is a corner lot, so you have two front yard setbacks. There's no injustice to adjoining labors based on the fact that we're going to be screening all of this and screening the entire area. Unique circumstances, a lot have been demonstrated because of the fact that it is a corner lot. So we have two front yard setbacks. This is not self graded because again, it is a corner lot. We've already tried to make accommodations to ensure that garages aren't there and we have tried to screen from all of our neighbors. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Additional evergreen screenings may be required, but based on the screening plan that's here, I'm happy. Again, as long as it is this current configuration, we're happy. I have a motion in support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Those requests are granted. And I think, I hope you got enough feedback here because that hot tub, you heard kind of from some tangential comments that if it's in another spot, it may impact someone else. So it's important to get, you know, the proper feedback and consider everybody that would be impacted by whatever location that you choose. Sure. Understood. Understood. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Calling item 2P, 2688 South Indian Mound. Is the applicant ready? Hello, board. My name is Jacob Mansour with Track Landscaping. I'm representing my homeowners at 2688 South Indian Mound. We're seeking a permission request. We have a spa 14 by 14. It's one foot above grade. I have a 20 by 20 sport court with a little basketball hoop.

  20. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Additional evergreen screenings may be required, but based on the screening plan that's here, I'm happy. Again, as long as it is this current configuration, we're happy. I have a motion in support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Those requests are granted. And I think, I hope you got enough feedback here because that hot tub, you heard kind of from some tangential comments that if it's in another spot, it may impact someone else. So it's important to get, you know, the proper feedback and consider everybody that would be impacted by whatever location that you choose. Sure. Understood. Understood. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Calling item 2P, 2688 South Indian Mound. Is the applicant ready? Hello, board. My name is Jacob Mansour with Track Landscaping. I'm representing my homeowners at 2688 South Indian Mound. We're seeking a permission request. We have a spa 14 by 14. It's one foot above grade. I have a 20 by 20 sport court with a little basketball hoop. And then an 11 by 7 foot by 10 foot swing day bed structure with a water feature. Everything is within the rear yard setbacks. I don't violate anything there. The entire property line, both side property lines, the rear yard property lines are going to be screened with nine foot, eight foot to nine foot pyramid allis arborvitaes. Every inch of the property line is going to be screened. They're going to be touching when they're planted. They're going to be skyrocketed. No one's going to be able to- see in there if you see some from our renderings that's that little swing structure that we designed as a rain curtain water feature over there and then you can also see a view of the spa and it spills over and it's a little elevated above one of the grades and then it's flush with another one of the grades that's our top-down view of the spa top-down view of the full design front of the house back of the house some of the different elevations and that's my request do we have any questions from the board okay I'll open this to the public anyone like to comment on this item my name is Randolph shine I reside at

  21. And then an 11 by 7 foot by 10 foot swing day bed structure with a water feature. Everything is within the rear yard setbacks. I don't violate anything there. The entire property line, both side property lines, the rear yard property lines are going to be screened with nine foot, eight foot to nine foot pyramid allis arborvitaes. Every inch of the property line is going to be screened. They're going to be touching when they're planted. They're going to be skyrocketed. No one's going to be able to- see in there if you see some from our renderings that's that little swing structure that we designed as a rain curtain water feature over there and then you can also see a view of the spa and it spills over and it's a little elevated above one of the grades and then it's flush with another one of the grades that's our top-down view of the spa top-down view of the full design front of the house back of the house some of the different elevations and that's my request do we have any questions from the board okay I'll open this to the public anyone like to comment on this item my name is Randolph shine I reside at two seven zero nine Indian Mountain South I've seen this proposal go from a quite large and intrusive proposal to one that is a little more modest in scope I still have a couple of reservations one is the wisdom of having an unfenced sports court I'm also concerned about the noise from the sports court I do like the addition of the water feature I think that will help mask some of the noise that might otherwise be generated. So is your request that the sports court actually have a fence around it? I would like to see a fence around the sports court. You mean like a netting or something? Are you worried about balls bouncing around? I'm not because I live across the street in one over. I am not to the rear or to the side of the property.

  22. public anyone like to comment on this item my name is Randolph shine I reside at two seven zero nine Indian Mountain South I've seen this proposal go from a quite large and intrusive proposal to one that is a little more modest in scope I still have a couple of reservations one is the wisdom of having an unfenced sports court I'm also concerned about the noise from the sports court I do like the addition of the water feature I think that will help mask some of the noise that might otherwise be generated. So is your request that the sports court actually have a fence around it? I would like to see a fence around the sports court. You mean like a netting or something? Are you worried about balls bouncing around? I'm not because I live across the street in one over. I am not to the rear or to the side of the property. So I'd be unlikely to get a ball in my yard. Okay, because typically we have people that actually object to the fencing around the sports court. Your position is the opposite. No, I think a sports court should have a fence around it, although since I'm not in a directly abutting property, it's not that big of an issue for me. Okay. Does anyone else who would like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and leave it up to the applicant. Well, Brian, for the same reason you said, a lot of people don't like to see that net. And for this gentleman's concern, I don't see any balls going to the neighbor's lot with the pool fence and the nine-foot-tall arborvities touching each other. If the homeowners want to put a net, they can. If they don't want to, they don't have to. I personally like the net. It stops everything. But it's such a small sports court that it's really not needed. So just a little basketball hoop, 20 feet by 20 feet. feet. It's much smaller than the traditional 30 by 60. It's a half court. It's not a full court. Correct. Are there any other questions? Any other questions on the board? I have a couple if you don't mind. So I'm glad that the sports court is a manageable size. I can tell you

  23. I am not to the rear or to the side of the property. So I'd be unlikely to get a ball in my yard. Okay, because typically we have people that actually object to the fencing around the sports court. Your position is the opposite. No, I think a sports court should have a fence around it, although since I'm not in a directly abutting property, it's not that big of an issue for me. Okay. Does anyone else who would like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and leave it up to the applicant. Well, Brian, for the same reason you said, a lot of people don't like to see that net. And for this gentleman's concern, I don't see any balls going to the neighbor's lot with the pool fence and the nine-foot-tall arborvities touching each other. If the homeowners want to put a net, they can. If they don't want to, they don't have to. I personally like the net. It stops everything. But it's such a small sports court that it's really not needed. So just a little basketball hoop, 20 feet by 20 feet. feet. It's much smaller than the traditional 30 by 60. It's a half court. It's not a full court. Correct. Are there any other questions? Any other questions on the board? I have a couple if you don't mind. So I'm glad that the sports court is a manageable size. I can tell you that is a big win and I appreciate the neighbor talking about how you guys kind of scaled this down based on either feedback from the neighborhood or what may be. Absolutely. So the sports court, when I'm looking at the picture is that the neighbor's property that we can see? So on the back side of it I see cars, I see a retaining wall. No sir, that's our driveway. That is this? Property's driveway. Yes sir. Driveway to the garage. So will the sports court be completely obstructed from neighbor view or public field? Completely 100% obstructed. The entire property already unlike the front side yards already has arbs down both sides. Let's see if I get a shot. Yeah because I was looking at it that's what I was a little confused on. It's kind of hard to see but on that side there's arborvitaes. If he goes back one more slide in that like far right corner where our garages are arborvitaes and some big trees and we're just we're going to continue the line add more. He wants a lot of privacy and he wants it right away. So like I said they're going to be eight to nine feet tall and they're going to be touching when we plant them. That's a great answer. Thank you. Any other questions? Ready for a motion? I have a motion. Dueling motion. In regards to the appeal at

  24. I have a couple if you don't mind. So I'm glad that the sports court is a manageable size. I can tell you that is a big win and I appreciate the neighbor talking about how you guys kind of scaled this down based on either feedback from the neighborhood or what may be. Absolutely. So the sports court, when I'm looking at the picture is that the neighbor's property that we can see? So on the back side of it I see cars, I see a retaining wall. No sir, that's our driveway. That is this? Property's driveway. Yes sir. Driveway to the garage. So will the sports court be completely obstructed from neighbor view or public field? Completely 100% obstructed. The entire property already unlike the front side yards already has arbs down both sides. Let's see if I get a shot. Yeah because I was looking at it that's what I was a little confused on. It's kind of hard to see but on that side there's arborvitaes. If he goes back one more slide in that like far right corner where our garages are arborvitaes and some big trees and we're just we're going to continue the line add more. He wants a lot of privacy and he wants it right away. So like I said they're going to be eight to nine feet tall and they're going to be touching when we plant them. That's a great answer. Thank you. Any other questions? Ready for a motion? I have a motion. Dueling motion. In regards to the appeal at 2688 South Indian Mountain Road. For the accessory structures, I move the request to be approved and submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it fits within the setbacks and is completely screened. If approved, the motion must include an application for unnecessary permits made within one year for the accessory structures and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen plantings shall be required if there's any openings in that the screen plan at the time of construction. No elimination permitted on the sports court and use of the sports court is limited to daytime hours. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you, Board. Have a good night. Thank you. So calling item number 1684 Waddington Road. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Mark Petyak. I'm the owner of the property and the general contractor that will be doing the work on this property. Our request is for a dimensional

  25. 2688 South Indian Mountain Road. For the accessory structures, I move the request to be approved and submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it fits within the setbacks and is completely screened. If approved, the motion must include an application for unnecessary permits made within one year for the accessory structures and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen plantings shall be required if there's any openings in that the screen plan at the time of construction. No elimination permitted on the sports court and use of the sports court is limited to daytime hours. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you, Board. Have a good night. Thank you. So calling item number 1684 Waddington Road. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Mark Petyak. I'm the owner of the property and the general contractor that will be doing the work on this property. Our request is for a dimensional variance that pertains to the front porch of the home. To give you a little context, we purchase this home from, I believe they must have lived there for at least 60 years. The lady who was, I believe, 98 years old. was no longer able to live there and the son who was the trustee was handling the trust and sold it to us mainly because they wanted the home to you know remain they didn't want it to be bulldozed um so our intention and our intention always was to enhance the home restore the home and kind of keep the character of it and keeping within the character of um you know bloomfield village so that's our intention here due to the age of the home uh and the fact that not there haven't been a lot of exterior improvements to it the home is i guess rather one-dimensional um and the fact that the home is sold it currently sits uh you can see that masonry kind of gable on the front sits as non-conforming as is the existing front porch so we're really unable to do any exterior improvements that would add to the architectural appeal of this home so we feel that the addition of this front porch which is like in a very colonial style enhances the architectural and aesthetic appeal of the home

  26. general contractor that will be doing the work on this property. Our request is for a dimensional variance that pertains to the front porch of the home. To give you a little context, we purchase this home from, I believe they must have lived there for at least 60 years. The lady who was, I believe, 98 years old. was no longer able to live there and the son who was the trustee was handling the trust and sold it to us mainly because they wanted the home to you know remain they didn't want it to be bulldozed um so our intention and our intention always was to enhance the home restore the home and kind of keep the character of it and keeping within the character of um you know bloomfield village so that's our intention here due to the age of the home uh and the fact that not there haven't been a lot of exterior improvements to it the home is i guess rather one-dimensional um and the fact that the home is sold it currently sits uh you can see that masonry kind of gable on the front sits as non-conforming as is the existing front porch so we're really unable to do any exterior improvements that would add to the architectural appeal of this home so we feel that the addition of this front porch which is like in a very colonial style enhances the architectural and aesthetic appeal of the home as did the bloomfield village architectural control committee they overwhelmingly approved this particular variance after review so that's our request and more than happy to answer any questions you may have okay i think it's fairly straightforward i'll open this to the public for comment see if see if kathy has some words of wisdom I'm not sure wisdom, but I have words. Kathy Weisenborn representing Bloomfield Village Association. Our board did review this proposal. This is existing non-conforming home into the 40-foot setback. We are seeing a number of proposals like this to add covered front porches. It is a nice update to the look of the front of the home, consistent with the architecture of the home. We think it will be a nice enhancement and we do support, we did approve this and support the variance. Thank you very much. Does anyone else like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board for a motion or discussion.

  27. porch which is like in a very colonial style enhances the architectural and aesthetic appeal of the home as did the bloomfield village architectural control committee they overwhelmingly approved this particular variance after review so that's our request and more than happy to answer any questions you may have okay i think it's fairly straightforward i'll open this to the public for comment see if see if kathy has some words of wisdom I'm not sure wisdom, but I have words. Kathy Weisenborn representing Bloomfield Village Association. Our board did review this proposal. This is existing non-conforming home into the 40-foot setback. We are seeing a number of proposals like this to add covered front porches. It is a nice update to the look of the front of the home, consistent with the architecture of the home. We think it will be a nice enhancement and we do support, we did approve this and support the variance. Thank you very much. Does anyone else like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board for a motion or discussion. I'll make a motion. Thank you. The dimensional variance in regards to the appeal at 684 Waddington Road. I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty. Because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome. Because it would actually prevent the reasonable use of the property. As though, you know, a porch would be a great addition. As well as it's a non-conforming structure as it is. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. For one, they do have the support of their association. And also, I think this would be an enhancement to the property. Unique circumstances of the property is that it also is not- and because of that it is not self-created. With that said, applications for all necessary permits must be made. If this motion is approved, all applications with permits must be made within one year for the accessory structure and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. I think that's it. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any

  28. So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board for a motion or discussion. I'll make a motion. Thank you. The dimensional variance in regards to the appeal at 684 Waddington Road. I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty. Because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome. Because it would actually prevent the reasonable use of the property. As though, you know, a porch would be a great addition. As well as it's a non-conforming structure as it is. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. For one, they do have the support of their association. And also, I think this would be an enhancement to the property. Unique circumstances of the property is that it also is not- and because of that it is not self-created. With that said, applications for all necessary permits must be made. If this motion is approved, all applications with permits must be made within one year for the accessory structure and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. I think that's it. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you very much. So item 2-11-23 East Glengarry Circle. Good evening, everyone. My name is Scott Trenary. I'm the homeowner of the house you see here. And my wife, Laura, and I moved into the house last summer, or I guess 2024 summer, with the goal of maintaining what is one of the older homes in the village and keeping it in its original state as much as possible. However, we would like to bring some of the functionality into the 21st century. Namely, we don't have a mudroom at all. You walk immediately into the kitchen. Thank you. which is so small that it can fit a table for four, a family of four in it. And then the garage is fairly narrow, so much so that Laura sometimes has to get into the passenger seat of her car in order to drive. So our plan was to bump the back of the garage out by 12 feet so that we avoid touching the front of the house or expanding the house sideways at all.

  29. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you very much. So item 2-11-23 East Glengarry Circle. Good evening, everyone. My name is Scott Trenary. I'm the homeowner of the house you see here. And my wife, Laura, and I moved into the house last summer, or I guess 2024 summer, with the goal of maintaining what is one of the older homes in the village and keeping it in its original state as much as possible. However, we would like to bring some of the functionality into the 21st century. Namely, we don't have a mudroom at all. You walk immediately into the kitchen. Thank you. which is so small that it can fit a table for four, a family of four in it. And then the garage is fairly narrow, so much so that Laura sometimes has to get into the passenger seat of her car in order to drive. So our plan was to bump the back of the garage out by 12 feet so that we avoid touching the front of the house or expanding the house sideways at all. And that would allow us to add a mudroom and get a small table into the kitchen while slightly increasing the square footage of the garage. That's it. I'll keep it short and see if I can answer any of your questions. Any questions? I'll open this to the public for comment. Thank you. This house is existing, non-conforming to the setback on that right side. The house doesn't sit square to the parallel to the property line, so any extension of that garage is going to encroach further into the setback. This is a pretty modest proposal to bring this into the 21st century for functionality of the home. It is well-designed architecturally. It is appropriate for this house. Also, I don't know if I can't do that. It was the biggest thing about the tower in來到這間駒 by the ground. We'll be right back.

  30. So our plan was to bump the back of the garage out by 12 feet so that we avoid touching the front of the house or expanding the house sideways at all. And that would allow us to add a mudroom and get a small table into the kitchen while slightly increasing the square footage of the garage. That's it. I'll keep it short and see if I can answer any of your questions. Any questions? I'll open this to the public for comment. Thank you. This house is existing, non-conforming to the setback on that right side. The house doesn't sit square to the parallel to the property line, so any extension of that garage is going to encroach further into the setback. This is a pretty modest proposal to bring this into the 21st century for functionality of the home. It is well-designed architecturally. It is appropriate for this house. Also, I don't know if I can't do that. It was the biggest thing about the tower in來到這間駒 by the ground. We'll be right back. So the board did approve this and support the variance of four feet on that right side. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? So I'll close public hearing and bring it back to the board. I have a couple questions. Sure. So is there any ordinance or do we have any permitting specifically for a driveway being on the property line? If they do this, they'll have a 12-foot driveway and that'll go to the property line now, right? It already is. It already does? Yes. And do we have flooding or issues associated with retaining water? No, but the driveway's made out of dirt, so... Are we going to be changing that? Yes. As part of this project, that is the hope to bring the driveway, make it concrete. Okay. So my response to your question would be that the applicant would be required, because they are making a change, they would be required to get a driveway permit to the building division. And what that does is allows the building division to review it and make sure that your change of that driveway does not have any negative impact to your neighbors. Okay. So a permit would be required, so thank you for that question. Perfect. And again, just want to make sure that we don't set you up for liability when water goes onto your neighbor's property and then it also pitches in the right way. So that's where the permitting process will help.

  31. So the board did approve this and support the variance of four feet on that right side. Thank you very much. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? So I'll close public hearing and bring it back to the board. I have a couple questions. Sure. So is there any ordinance or do we have any permitting specifically for a driveway being on the property line? If they do this, they'll have a 12-foot driveway and that'll go to the property line now, right? It already is. It already does? Yes. And do we have flooding or issues associated with retaining water? No, but the driveway's made out of dirt, so... Are we going to be changing that? Yes. As part of this project, that is the hope to bring the driveway, make it concrete. Okay. So my response to your question would be that the applicant would be required, because they are making a change, they would be required to get a driveway permit to the building division. And what that does is allows the building division to review it and make sure that your change of that driveway does not have any negative impact to your neighbors. Okay. So a permit would be required, so thank you for that question. Perfect. And again, just want to make sure that we don't set you up for liability when water goes onto your neighbor's property and then it also pitches in the right way. So that's where the permitting process will help. Understood. Thank you very much. With that, I have no objection. Very good. We want to make a motion. Please go ahead. Okay. Thank you. In regard to the appeal at 11.3 Glengarry Circle, please... For the requested variants, I move the variants be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all of the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the fact that the home is currently noncompliant. There is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors given the fact that we do have approval by the Neighborhood Association and their appreciation for the fact that we would entertain an opportunity to help these homeowners get their home into the 21st century. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given the fact that it is currently a noncompliant structure and is not self-created since these issues came with the home at the time that it was purchased. If the motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the garage addition

  32. So that's where the permitting process will help. Understood. Thank you very much. With that, I have no objection. Very good. We want to make a motion. Please go ahead. Okay. Thank you. In regard to the appeal at 11.3 Glengarry Circle, please... For the requested variants, I move the variants be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all of the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome given the fact that the home is currently noncompliant. There is no injustice to the adjoining neighbors given the fact that we do have approval by the Neighborhood Association and their appreciation for the fact that we would entertain an opportunity to help these homeowners get their home into the 21st century. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given the fact that it is currently a noncompliant structure and is not self-created since these issues came with the home at the time that it was purchased. If the motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the garage addition and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. So calling item 4, 491-1 Burnley. Good evening gentlemen. Thank you for your participation. Evidently there was a time commitment. Oh, they came back. Simon, can we take a picture? At 10 o'clock. It would have helped that you'd ask before we started the meeting. I thought you would need some visual evidence that you met the requirements here. Are we going to have a time stamp on that picture? Sure, you can take a picture.

  33. If the motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the garage addition and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. So calling item 4, 491-1 Burnley. Good evening gentlemen. Thank you for your participation. Evidently there was a time commitment. Oh, they came back. Simon, can we take a picture? At 10 o'clock. It would have helped that you'd ask before we started the meeting. I thought you would need some visual evidence that you met the requirements here. Are we going to have a time stamp on that picture? Sure, you can take a picture. I'm sure somebody has a phone. Do you guys want to stand in front of the board here? That's hilarious. As a model of two teenage boys don't surprise me. Right, right. So what class is this for? AP Gov. AP Gov, okay. Oh, yeah. Wow. Okay. Oh, they're just getting the kids put on the board. I'm like, come on, yeah. No, no, it's just that. We didn't... They're doing this activity. Yeah. AP Gov. There you go. All right. Yay. I have much greater confidence in the future based on your participation. So... So... that was a great exit well they sat in the front they obviously were worried about being seen and they certainly weren't worried about exiting in front of everyone so good for them that's confidence all right item four hi good evening this is Catherine and Michael Ogwin at 4911 Burnley Drive and you know board members I'm requesting a variance for my shed located in the back west corner of my yard along the tree line it sits 10 feet from the property line instead of 16 but over

  34. Sure, you can take a picture. I'm sure somebody has a phone. Do you guys want to stand in front of the board here? That's hilarious. As a model of two teenage boys don't surprise me. Right, right. So what class is this for? AP Gov. AP Gov, okay. Oh, yeah. Wow. Okay. Oh, they're just getting the kids put on the board. I'm like, come on, yeah. No, no, it's just that. We didn't... They're doing this activity. Yeah. AP Gov. There you go. All right. Yay. I have much greater confidence in the future based on your participation. So... So... that was a great exit well they sat in the front they obviously were worried about being seen and they certainly weren't worried about exiting in front of everyone so good for them that's confidence all right item four hi good evening this is Catherine and Michael Ogwin at 4911 Burnley Drive and you know board members I'm requesting a variance for my shed located in the back west corner of my yard along the tree line it sits 10 feet from the property line instead of 16 but over 16 feet from the rear lot line and all other lines the shed is a standard size structure used for seasonal storage of lawn and garden equipment bicycles and outdoor items our yard has unique constraints mature trees and patio and established landscaping that make moving the shed six feet inward very difficult and would significantly reduce usable space the sheds current location is unobtrusive naturally screened and consistent with how our sheds how other sheds are positioned in the neighborhood the variance represents the minimum relief necessary to allow reasonable use of our property while preserving the character of the neighborhood we sincerely appreciate your consideration and hope you grant this request so are you refurbishing the shed so when I was looking at the pictures to prepare I was a bit confused because there were two different colors in the... Sorry. No, it's that. We had to paint it in a certain amount of time in order to have it sealed. So we put it up, and then we... So, no, we're not refurbishing.

  35. corner of my yard along the tree line it sits 10 feet from the property line instead of 16 but over 16 feet from the rear lot line and all other lines the shed is a standard size structure used for seasonal storage of lawn and garden equipment bicycles and outdoor items our yard has unique constraints mature trees and patio and established landscaping that make moving the shed six feet inward very difficult and would significantly reduce usable space the sheds current location is unobtrusive naturally screened and consistent with how our sheds how other sheds are positioned in the neighborhood the variance represents the minimum relief necessary to allow reasonable use of our property while preserving the character of the neighborhood we sincerely appreciate your consideration and hope you grant this request so are you refurbishing the shed so when I was looking at the pictures to prepare I was a bit confused because there were two different colors in the... Sorry. No, it's that. We had to paint it in a certain amount of time in order to have it sealed. So we put it up, and then we... So, no, we're not refurbishing. We just... So that's the current color, is the bottom right? The current color is the top left. Oh, top left. It's the same color as our siding and trim of our house. So what's the bottom right, then? That was just a rendering of the kit that we constructed. Gotcha. Okay. So is that a side view of the shed? So that's the view from looking from the road into our back right-hand corner of our yard. And there is a... We own the side of the landscaping all the way in the back and all the way on the left. So it's completely un... You can't see it from any side of the property. Can we go to the picture with the trees? So is that the screening you're proposing? That was proposing, yep, the height of the shed. But we can still see the shed? It will be... They'll be touching. All the arborvitaes will be touching. And there's actually... I put the arborvitae picture in front of the actual bush line that is actually... It's like putting double.

  36. So, no, we're not refurbishing. We just... So that's the current color, is the bottom right? The current color is the top left. Oh, top left. It's the same color as our siding and trim of our house. So what's the bottom right, then? That was just a rendering of the kit that we constructed. Gotcha. Okay. So is that a side view of the shed? So that's the view from looking from the road into our back right-hand corner of our yard. And there is a... We own the side of the landscaping all the way in the back and all the way on the left. So it's completely un... You can't see it from any side of the property. Can we go to the picture with the trees? So is that the screening you're proposing? That was proposing, yep, the height of the shed. But we can still see the shed? It will be... They'll be touching. All the arborvitaes will be touching. And there's actually... I put the arborvitae picture in front of the actual bush line that is actually... It's like putting double. When you look from the road, there's another bush that goes there. Because the requirement is going to be screened from public use. So you're going to meet that requirement. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, that's an interesting technique to superimpose. Sorry. I'm not very good at this. Well, no. We've not seen that before. First rodeo here. They're almost ghost-like, sort of a ghost tree. All right. So let's open the public hearing. Anyone like to comment on this item? Okay. So close the public hearing and bring it back. So I just want to reiterate. So the screening plan that you propose, that isn't enough trees and that isn't high enough. We all understand that. So again, the picture from the road, you can see it. And the picture from your neighbor's property, we can see it right now, correct? Yeah. That's from the road. Because the one picture you showed, so I can see it right here. Correct. And from your neighbor's property. So we will be planting, because it's 12 foot tall, right? So it's got to be the height of the shed. Absolutely. Completely screened. Because again, it is white, so it kind of stands out a little more. You made it hard. And I understand that it matches, again, get it. But we're asking for forgiveness now, not permission, right? Yes. So as part of that, we're going to make sure we. Absolutely. Perfect. As long as you guys agree to that. Agreed. Then I can understand everything else and I have no objections from the neighbors.

  37. When you look from the road, there's another bush that goes there. Because the requirement is going to be screened from public use. So you're going to meet that requirement. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah, that's an interesting technique to superimpose. Sorry. I'm not very good at this. Well, no. We've not seen that before. First rodeo here. They're almost ghost-like, sort of a ghost tree. All right. So let's open the public hearing. Anyone like to comment on this item? Okay. So close the public hearing and bring it back. So I just want to reiterate. So the screening plan that you propose, that isn't enough trees and that isn't high enough. We all understand that. So again, the picture from the road, you can see it. And the picture from your neighbor's property, we can see it right now, correct? Yeah. That's from the road. Because the one picture you showed, so I can see it right here. Correct. And from your neighbor's property. So we will be planting, because it's 12 foot tall, right? So it's got to be the height of the shed. Absolutely. Completely screened. Because again, it is white, so it kind of stands out a little more. You made it hard. And I understand that it matches, again, get it. But we're asking for forgiveness now, not permission, right? Yes. So as part of that, we're going to make sure we. Absolutely. Perfect. As long as you guys agree to that. Agreed. Then I can understand everything else and I have no objections from the neighbors. Anything else? Well, because it's January, they're not going to be. So I would, I would expect it to be done by May. Okay. That a fair. Fair, done. Okay. All right. All right. I think we get the proof. of a motion I'd love to make one great so I will go with the permission request so for the permission request for the existing shed located at 4911 Brent Brindley Drive for the accessory structure I moved the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate in the neighborhood as many other neighbors have a shed in their yard for yard type tools if that motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be moved within five business days additional ever screen plantings will be required to be the height of the structure and it will be that we cannot see it so there will be no space between the arborvitaes and you have until May 1st in order to plant those so ordinance department will then enforce it after that that gives you guys time to procure them and plant them motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed

  38. Anything else? Well, because it's January, they're not going to be. So I would, I would expect it to be done by May. Okay. That a fair. Fair, done. Okay. All right. All right. I think we get the proof. of a motion I'd love to make one great so I will go with the permission request so for the permission request for the existing shed located at 4911 Brent Brindley Drive for the accessory structure I moved the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate in the neighborhood as many other neighbors have a shed in their yard for yard type tools if that motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be moved within five business days additional ever screen plantings will be required to be the height of the structure and it will be that we cannot see it so there will be no space between the arborvitaes and you have until May 1st in order to plant those so ordinance department will then enforce it after that that gives you guys time to procure them and plant them motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted I gotta do the dimensional oh I only did the permission I didn't do the dimensional all right I retract what I said you'll be there though give me a second in the regards to the appeal at 4911 Brindley Drive for the six-foot variance I move the variance be approved as requested based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all compliance with practical difficulty because combined strict letter of the ordinance we unduly burdensome because it would not allow you to utilize functionality of your backyard there's no injustice to joining neighbors for the reason of we are going to screen it so nobody can see it a unique circumstance of your property has been demonstrated because of the fact of if we move it more to that yard then it'll be allowing for less recreational space for you and your family this is not self-created due to the fact that you have limited space in your backyard if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days and again you already know with the additional evergreen screening that you will be required to plant by may 1st support so i have a motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed now your request is granted just of luck to you thank you so calling item five four eight six one cimarron drive good evening my name is matt

  39. motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted I gotta do the dimensional oh I only did the permission I didn't do the dimensional all right I retract what I said you'll be there though give me a second in the regards to the appeal at 4911 Brindley Drive for the six-foot variance I move the variance be approved as requested based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all compliance with practical difficulty because combined strict letter of the ordinance we unduly burdensome because it would not allow you to utilize functionality of your backyard there's no injustice to joining neighbors for the reason of we are going to screen it so nobody can see it a unique circumstance of your property has been demonstrated because of the fact of if we move it more to that yard then it'll be allowing for less recreational space for you and your family this is not self-created due to the fact that you have limited space in your backyard if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within five business days and again you already know with the additional evergreen screening that you will be required to plant by may 1st support so i have a motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed now your request is granted just of luck to you thank you so calling item five four eight six one cimarron drive good evening my name is matt mosier from osier landscape architecture thanks for having us tonight uh representing the owners at four eight six one cimarron this request is part of a broader project to enhance the house plus some other features in the yard in front of you tonight is the request for a sport court to hit the key things we are within the required setbacks we do have in the landscape plan which is somewhere in here have extensive evergreen screening i think we got 38 new 12 to 14 foot spruces around the yard we've got a um hedge on the lawn along the back of the driveway that's eight feet um and it tucks in nicely in the fact that it kind of sits down below a hill. The neighbor behind us is about 14 feet up on a hill, and it sits down below that. As part of this request, although it does meet the setbacks, we did talk to the neighbors on our street. The one directly affected is in full support, and the other ones surrounding our house, left and into the front, are in support as well. Since it's a pretty straightforward... Oh, one more thing. There is a large septic field in the backyard,

  40. to you thank you so calling item five four eight six one cimarron drive good evening my name is matt mosier from osier landscape architecture thanks for having us tonight uh representing the owners at four eight six one cimarron this request is part of a broader project to enhance the house plus some other features in the yard in front of you tonight is the request for a sport court to hit the key things we are within the required setbacks we do have in the landscape plan which is somewhere in here have extensive evergreen screening i think we got 38 new 12 to 14 foot spruces around the yard we've got a um hedge on the lawn along the back of the driveway that's eight feet um and it tucks in nicely in the fact that it kind of sits down below a hill. The neighbor behind us is about 14 feet up on a hill, and it sits down below that. As part of this request, although it does meet the setbacks, we did talk to the neighbors on our street. The one directly affected is in full support, and the other ones surrounding our house, left and into the front, are in support as well. Since it's a pretty straightforward... Oh, one more thing. There is a large septic field in the backyard, which limits where we can put this court and how far we can be from that septic field, which sort of dictates the placement and orientation. Happy to answer any questions. What's the material the fence is made of? It's a light mesh, so the typical transparent mesh that we generally use. Oh, okay, so it's not a... But it looks like it has... There's like a thicker frame... Well, that's the rendering, guys. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, so it's not actually... I was pitching a man of them like a... I don't know if it was a vinyl or a more sturdy structure, but it's netting. It's that typical nylon thin netting. That's correct. Yep. And the only other question I have before we get... Is along the driveway side, when I look at the landscape plan, it's hard to see. There is going to be a row, a hedge there, so I can't see it along the driveway side. Yeah, so you can kind of see like that, I would call it a paver inlay for the pull-in. That line behind it, the white, that's an eight-foot-tall solid hedge. Dude, you're welcome. Okay, so I will not be able to see it. Not one inch around the property. But now on the left-hand side, you guys are planting spruces, but they're in a staggered formation. So technically will not provide full coverage, correct? It will. That's why we're going with 12 to 14-footers, so that at that six-foot height of where that

  41. There is a large septic field in the backyard, which limits where we can put this court and how far we can be from that septic field, which sort of dictates the placement and orientation. Happy to answer any questions. What's the material the fence is made of? It's a light mesh, so the typical transparent mesh that we generally use. Oh, okay, so it's not a... But it looks like it has... There's like a thicker frame... Well, that's the rendering, guys. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, so it's not actually... I was pitching a man of them like a... I don't know if it was a vinyl or a more sturdy structure, but it's netting. It's that typical nylon thin netting. That's correct. Yep. And the only other question I have before we get... Is along the driveway side, when I look at the landscape plan, it's hard to see. There is going to be a row, a hedge there, so I can't see it along the driveway side. Yeah, so you can kind of see like that, I would call it a paver inlay for the pull-in. That line behind it, the white, that's an eight-foot-tall solid hedge. Dude, you're welcome. Okay, so I will not be able to see it. Not one inch around the property. But now on the left-hand side, you guys are planting spruces, but they're in a staggered formation. So technically will not provide full coverage, correct? It will. That's why we're going with 12 to 14-footers, so that at that six-foot height of where that fence would be, that would be fully covered out of the gate. So you will be completely covering it? Yes. The landscape plan shows a couple openings, but we're going to be taking care of it. Yeah, and the openings that it shows are existing trees, but one, it will be covered, and two is your building department does a very good job on inspections, looking at every angle and all about it. Okay. I'm not, you know I don't love it. I'm totally with you, though. You know I don't love it. I know. Okay. As long as we are on the same page. 100%. I want your applicants, and I understand the practical difficulty with the septic field, but then I need to make sure that I can't see it. So totally respect that and agree. Okay. Thank you, Brian. Okay. So I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? Closed public hearing. I'll bring it back for discussion or a motion. I can make a motion. Thank you. I'll start with the commission request first. In regards to the appeal at 4861 Cimarron Drive for the accessory structure of a sports court, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of .

  42. That's why we're going with 12 to 14-footers, so that at that six-foot height of where that fence would be, that would be fully covered out of the gate. So you will be completely covering it? Yes. The landscape plan shows a couple openings, but we're going to be taking care of it. Yeah, and the openings that it shows are existing trees, but one, it will be covered, and two is your building department does a very good job on inspections, looking at every angle and all about it. Okay. I'm not, you know I don't love it. I'm totally with you, though. You know I don't love it. I know. Okay. As long as we are on the same page. 100%. I want your applicants, and I understand the practical difficulty with the septic field, but then I need to make sure that I can't see it. So totally respect that and agree. Okay. Thank you, Brian. Okay. So I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? Closed public hearing. I'll bring it back for discussion or a motion. I can make a motion. Thank you. I'll start with the commission request first. In regards to the appeal at 4861 Cimarron Drive for the accessory structure of a sports court, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the use of . accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood. This is a very common accessory structure, even so today. In terms of the dimensional variance at the same location of 4861 Cimarron Drive, I move for the variance be approved as requested for the sports courts as well as the fence exceeding four feet. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without the fence over four feet, it would prevent reasonable use of the sports court. There's no injustice to adjourning neighbors because it's going to be well screened and also the property is tucked down low. Unique circumstances of the property, again, because of the septic tank to where the septic field is where it's located. This is the best place for the sports court and because of that it is not self created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the fence in sports court from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the fence at the time of planting. There's no illumination permitted on the sports court and the use of the sport court is limited

  43. accessory structure is appropriate for the neighborhood. This is a very common accessory structure, even so today. In terms of the dimensional variance at the same location of 4861 Cimarron Drive, I move for the variance be approved as requested for the sports courts as well as the fence exceeding four feet. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without the fence over four feet, it would prevent reasonable use of the sports court. There's no injustice to adjourning neighbors because it's going to be well screened and also the property is tucked down low. Unique circumstances of the property, again, because of the septic tank to where the septic field is where it's located. This is the best place for the sports court and because of that it is not self created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen planting shall be required to completely screen the fence in sports court from public view and must meet or exceed the height of the fence at the time of planting. There's no illumination permitted on the sports court and the use of the sport court is limited to daytime hours only. So I have a motion to support. Any discussion? So, Andrea, just to confirm, the building department requires a civil engineer. You can see it in- or plan when we build sports courts, correct? There will have to be, not necessarily sealed by a certified civil engineer, but there will be a determination, as Matt is probably pretty well aware, to determine where the water runoff would be and to ensure that there's no negative water runoff with the construction of your court onto adjacent properties. And there is a fully civil engineered plan that that landscape is over and it's all totally engineered out already. Again, I know you do great work. Totally legitimate question. Thank you. Any further discussion on the motion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. Thank you. Item 6, 1896 West Bend Drive. Good evening, board members. I'm Bree Daneker. I'm the home owner of 1896 West Bend Drive and the variance applicant.

  44. There's no illumination permitted on the sports court and the use of the sport court is limited to daytime hours only. So I have a motion to support. Any discussion? So, Andrea, just to confirm, the building department requires a civil engineer. You can see it in- or plan when we build sports courts, correct? There will have to be, not necessarily sealed by a certified civil engineer, but there will be a determination, as Matt is probably pretty well aware, to determine where the water runoff would be and to ensure that there's no negative water runoff with the construction of your court onto adjacent properties. And there is a fully civil engineered plan that that landscape is over and it's all totally engineered out already. Again, I know you do great work. Totally legitimate question. Thank you. Any further discussion on the motion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. Thank you. Item 6, 1896 West Bend Drive. Good evening, board members. I'm Bree Daneker. I'm the home owner of 1896 West Bend Drive and the variance applicant. I noticed in the agenda that the issue at hand is the placement of the place, my place structure in the backyard being in the rear yard. I just wanted to point out that the rear, I'm on a corner lot, so I'm surrounded by three roads technically. So my rear yard is the north side of the lot, which is where the place structure is currently. Originally, I was requesting a variance for I might say, you know, and I think the record is that my residential playset that is located about three feet from the property line and i realized the requirement is about 16 feet so what i had submitted was support to to kind of showcase the fact that the there's a huge slant in the backyard that's the safest area that i could put the playset it's significantly slanted i also removed a bunch of overgrown overgrown buckthorn and poison ivy to make it a safe area for him to play in the backyard i also planted arborvitae along the east and west property lines to kind of shield from and they're you know not quite mature they're a little bit smaller to sheer shield the east and west side of the property line from view

  45. and the variance applicant. I noticed in the agenda that the issue at hand is the placement of the place, my place structure in the backyard being in the rear yard. I just wanted to point out that the rear, I'm on a corner lot, so I'm surrounded by three roads technically. So my rear yard is the north side of the lot, which is where the place structure is currently. Originally, I was requesting a variance for I might say, you know, and I think the record is that my residential playset that is located about three feet from the property line and i realized the requirement is about 16 feet so what i had submitted was support to to kind of showcase the fact that the there's a huge slant in the backyard that's the safest area that i could put the playset it's significantly slanted i also removed a bunch of overgrown overgrown buckthorn and poison ivy to make it a safe area for him to play in the backyard i also planted arborvitae along the east and west property lines to kind of shield from and they're you know not quite mature they're a little bit smaller to sheer shield the east and west side of the property line from view i think most of the time other than winter when it's very bare it will be pretty well shielded the structure is a small-scale residential set designed to blend in with the landscape it's not you know crazy rainbow colors or anything like that i have some letters of support from the neighbors who are very happy with it and then yeah really moving moving at 16 feet from the property line would make it not so safe of an area for my son to play since it is so slanted and that is the backyard it's the um you know most rear area you that I could put it any questions from the board so the screening the screening it has to be screened you know all year round not just so you had mentioned that when it's not winter it's well screened but it has to be screened all year round so are you planning I didn't know if that was a picture before you planted arborvitae or because it didn't look well screened on the east and west side of the property I had planted arborvitae when I put the play set in so they're

  46. they're a little bit smaller to sheer shield the east and west side of the property line from view i think most of the time other than winter when it's very bare it will be pretty well shielded the structure is a small-scale residential set designed to blend in with the landscape it's not you know crazy rainbow colors or anything like that i have some letters of support from the neighbors who are very happy with it and then yeah really moving moving at 16 feet from the property line would make it not so safe of an area for my son to play since it is so slanted and that is the backyard it's the um you know most rear area you that I could put it any questions from the board so the screening the screening it has to be screened you know all year round not just so you had mentioned that when it's not winter it's well screened but it has to be screened all year round so are you planning I didn't know if that was a picture before you planted arborvitae or because it didn't look well screened on the east and west side of the property I had planted arborvitae when I put the play set in so they're they're pretty small on the side lots and I put the play set in before winter came so it's definitely less shielded now but as I've told the board I'm happy to you know plant more trees to shield it from you know from the streets I'm happy to do that so just because we haven't seen a play structure in some time so refreshed my memory used to have to approve all of them and then we would change the requirement to to what a rear yard 16 feet off the lot lines and then no rainbow coloration which you've already touched upon that neutral tones which it meets that criteria unfortunately in this situation it's it's the practical difficulty of the layout of the property that necessitates a trip to the zoning board because they are required to be in a rear yard in this instance the applicant thus using the side yard tour for the rear yard it's still considered a side yard so it's really due to the location of it um but what i'm saying is those other play structures are in the rear your rear yard wouldn't have the screening requirement oh um is that in is that in the do we still require that or i see a lot of play structures that's actually a very very good question again because this is a

  47. of the property I had planted arborvitae when I put the play set in so they're they're pretty small on the side lots and I put the play set in before winter came so it's definitely less shielded now but as I've told the board I'm happy to you know plant more trees to shield it from you know from the streets I'm happy to do that so just because we haven't seen a play structure in some time so refreshed my memory used to have to approve all of them and then we would change the requirement to to what a rear yard 16 feet off the lot lines and then no rainbow coloration which you've already touched upon that neutral tones which it meets that criteria unfortunately in this situation it's it's the practical difficulty of the layout of the property that necessitates a trip to the zoning board because they are required to be in a rear yard in this instance the applicant thus using the side yard tour for the rear yard it's still considered a side yard so it's really due to the location of it um but what i'm saying is those other play structures are in the rear your rear yard wouldn't have the screening requirement oh um is that in is that in the do we still require that or i see a lot of play structures that's actually a very very good question again because this is a little rare yes that's what i'm saying i'm a little rusty on play structures i we used to i've been doing this a long time in the first 15 years that did many play structures so i'm just trying to understand you know and now there's more sports courts and well i do well it's not completely relevant because i'm saying maybe the screening is important because of the visibility of it but i'm just i'm trying to put it in context so does the township consider it an accessory structure no okay so they're looking up the ordinance right now and so there's no strict requirement about screening noted yeah because that's what i thought because now so now yeah because the intention was to somewhat relax the requirement of a very typical play structure right um so we we drafted it in a way that would be less restrictive more permissive um but again in this instance due to the layout of the property she has a unique circumstance right and but i'm just saying in in in those cases too probably not visible if it's behind or whatever but i'm just

  48. or i see a lot of play structures that's actually a very very good question again because this is a little rare yes that's what i'm saying i'm a little rusty on play structures i we used to i've been doing this a long time in the first 15 years that did many play structures so i'm just trying to understand you know and now there's more sports courts and well i do well it's not completely relevant because i'm saying maybe the screening is important because of the visibility of it but i'm just i'm trying to put it in context so does the township consider it an accessory structure no okay so they're looking up the ordinance right now and so there's no strict requirement about screening noted yeah because that's what i thought because now so now yeah because the intention was to somewhat relax the requirement of a very typical play structure right um so we we drafted it in a way that would be less restrictive more permissive um but again in this instance due to the layout of the property she has a unique circumstance right and but i'm just saying in in in those cases too probably not visible if it's behind or whatever but i'm just trying to help her out here but again putting in context is no only reason why i said that i know she has multiple frontages right that's that's it's out it's out more uh it seems like that location it's it's very visible that's that was why i was asking it it is visible it's also she's three feet from the property line in the easement so even trying to have her put any type of screening it would be in the utility easement which can only put certain plantings and only go so high so it's a different type of ask because then she can't play on the other side of the utility pole because it's not her property yeah she wouldn't be dealing with this but for the fact that she's got to send a secondary fund and that's right she got a slow well it would if she put it three feet from the property line she still would even in the backyard you said you did talk to the adjacent neighbors did i hear that yes yeah i have letters from the adjacent neighbors and the neighbor who originally complained said that she was fine with them now okay that's the reason why i'm here you guys have to close it like a couple wait uh i'll open this to the public anyone like to speak on this side here sure eric phillips um 1974 bayou um i have absolutely zero problem and i'm kitty corner to

  49. trying to help her out here but again putting in context is no only reason why i said that i know she has multiple frontages right that's that's it's out it's out more uh it seems like that location it's it's very visible that's that was why i was asking it it is visible it's also she's three feet from the property line in the easement so even trying to have her put any type of screening it would be in the utility easement which can only put certain plantings and only go so high so it's a different type of ask because then she can't play on the other side of the utility pole because it's not her property yeah she wouldn't be dealing with this but for the fact that she's got to send a secondary fund and that's right she got a slow well it would if she put it three feet from the property line she still would even in the backyard you said you did talk to the adjacent neighbors did i hear that yes yeah i have letters from the adjacent neighbors and the neighbor who originally complained said that she was fine with them now okay that's the reason why i'm here you guys have to close it like a couple wait uh i'll open this to the public anyone like to speak on this side here sure eric phillips um 1974 bayou um i have absolutely zero problem and i'm kitty corner to to the property there um we look out the front of our house towards the what i would consider the backyard Honestly, I didn't even know that the play structure was there until I got the notice. So it blends in perfectly fine. It truly is not like obnoxious or an eyesore or really even visible. It blends in with the trees that are there even in the wintertime. So that's all I wanted to say. Thanks very much. I'm not sure if this is the right time. I'm on the board for Shortwood Hills. So your name and address? My name is Rose Fagan. My address is 2264 Shorehill Drive and I'm on the board for the POA and so I'm representing the board. The board has no issue with the play structure. Ms. Daniker has complied with all requests to try to position this properly and screen the play structure so it is at least visible to passing traffic. And she has planted things which, you know, with the winter, all the greenery is, you know,

  50. side here sure eric phillips um 1974 bayou um i have absolutely zero problem and i'm kitty corner to to the property there um we look out the front of our house towards the what i would consider the backyard Honestly, I didn't even know that the play structure was there until I got the notice. So it blends in perfectly fine. It truly is not like obnoxious or an eyesore or really even visible. It blends in with the trees that are there even in the wintertime. So that's all I wanted to say. Thanks very much. I'm not sure if this is the right time. I'm on the board for Shortwood Hills. So your name and address? My name is Rose Fagan. My address is 2264 Shorehill Drive and I'm on the board for the POA and so I'm representing the board. The board has no issue with the play structure. Ms. Daniker has complied with all requests to try to position this properly and screen the play structure so it is at least visible to passing traffic. And she has planted things which, you know, with the winter, all the greenery is, you know, gone. So it's visible. But I would say, as our neighbor has said, that it is not, it looks good. Aesthetically pleasing. It looks good. It looks nice in the neighborhood and I think it's in line with the environment for our neighborhood. It's very much in line with that. And the structure has been approved by our . . . architectural committee. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? So I'll close public hearing and bring it back to the board. I'd like to make a motion. Please do. So for the dimensional variance, in regards to the appeal at, I don't know, which one is this? Yes, 1896. So 1896 West Bend Drive. For the variance to be three feet from the property line, I move the variance to be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance or strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that she has three front yard setbacks. So she's going to have a road on each side.

  51. And she has planted things which, you know, with the winter, all the greenery is, you know, gone. So it's visible. But I would say, as our neighbor has said, that it is not, it looks good. Aesthetically pleasing. It looks good. It looks nice in the neighborhood and I think it's in line with the environment for our neighborhood. It's very much in line with that. And the structure has been approved by our . . . architectural committee. Thanks for sharing that. Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? So I'll close public hearing and bring it back to the board. I'd like to make a motion. Please do. So for the dimensional variance, in regards to the appeal at, I don't know, which one is this? Yes, 1896. So 1896 West Bend Drive. For the variance to be three feet from the property line, I move the variance to be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance or strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that she has three front yard setbacks. So she's going to have a road on each side. She also has a sloping lot for safety of the place structure. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of all the neighbors or improvement of it. Needs terms of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact that, again, we have three front yard, three road frontages, as well as easement along the back. So even though we are three feet from the property line, there is still additional green space that can help block sound and visible from the neighbors. This is not self-created because of the fact that this is how the house was built. Now, if this application is approved, all necessary permits must be made within five business days. Okay, and I'm not going to require any additional evergreen plantings or any different screening. as is support a motion and support I think that was a very well crafted motion thank you balancing all of the factors all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted if you just come on down to our department it's an ordinance permit where essentially they just want to verify that for the record that everything is located essentially so that's when they say five business days for the existing structure so if any questions you can just come on down to the planning building the ordinance

  52. Yes, 1896. So 1896 West Bend Drive. For the variance to be three feet from the property line, I move the variance to be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance or strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the fact that she has three front yard setbacks. So she's going to have a road on each side. She also has a sloping lot for safety of the place structure. There is no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of all the neighbors or improvement of it. Needs terms of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact that, again, we have three front yard, three road frontages, as well as easement along the back. So even though we are three feet from the property line, there is still additional green space that can help block sound and visible from the neighbors. This is not self-created because of the fact that this is how the house was built. Now, if this application is approved, all necessary permits must be made within five business days. Okay, and I'm not going to require any additional evergreen plantings or any different screening. as is support a motion and support I think that was a very well crafted motion thank you balancing all of the factors all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted if you just come on down to our department it's an ordinance permit where essentially they just want to verify that for the record that everything is located essentially so that's when they say five business days for the existing structure so if any questions you can just come on down to the planning building the ordinance department will help you okay okay so calling item 7 3 8 9 4 Peabody is the applicant ready 3 8 9 4 Peabody mr. chair yes do you want to table it or move it to the end or would we like to deny without prejudice what's that there's people here okay so first I'll open this for public comment anyone like to comment on item 7 okay so no one here to the comment so I guess we what what makes it easier for the staff do you want to move to the end of the agenda see I had a lot of questions for this one. Yeah, I mean, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable giving any direction at this time for the board to take any action based on... No, no, I wasn't saying take any action. I'm just saying deny without prejudice. I'm sorry, I was picking up on what Chris was saying. I think it's whatever.

  53. questions you can just come on down to the planning building the ordinance department will help you okay okay so calling item 7 3 8 9 4 Peabody is the applicant ready 3 8 9 4 Peabody mr. chair yes do you want to table it or move it to the end or would we like to deny without prejudice what's that there's people here okay so first I'll open this for public comment anyone like to comment on item 7 okay so no one here to the comment so I guess we what what makes it easier for the staff do you want to move to the end of the agenda see I had a lot of questions for this one. Yeah, I mean, I certainly wouldn't feel comfortable giving any direction at this time for the board to take any action based on... No, no, I wasn't saying take any action. I'm just saying deny without prejudice. I'm sorry, I was picking up on what Chris was saying. I think it's whatever. If you did a denial without prejudice would have probably the same impact. A denial without prejudice would require them to submit a new application. If they have not been heard on their recent request, and the request remains the same, then I guess I would recommend the tabling. The difference would be without prejudice they have to make a whole new application. So why don't we just table it? Should we move to the end of the agenda, see if they show up and then table it then? Sure, I guess that's what we typically do. Let's do that. For some reason, I don't think they're showing up. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we amend our agenda and move number item to number 7 to number 21. Okay. Support. Motion and support. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Table to the end. We'll take odds. I'm not very sure. All right. Calling the next item, item 8 for 915 Inkster. Good evening. Zach Hanna, DHE, on behalf of the client, the homeowner of this property. We have this property started construction last year. It's a new house construction. And when we try to put the pool, because of the topo of,

  54. I think it's whatever. If you did a denial without prejudice would have probably the same impact. A denial without prejudice would require them to submit a new application. If they have not been heard on their recent request, and the request remains the same, then I guess I would recommend the tabling. The difference would be without prejudice they have to make a whole new application. So why don't we just table it? Should we move to the end of the agenda, see if they show up and then table it then? Sure, I guess that's what we typically do. Let's do that. For some reason, I don't think they're showing up. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that we amend our agenda and move number item to number 7 to number 21. Okay. Support. Motion and support. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? Table to the end. We'll take odds. I'm not very sure. All right. Calling the next item, item 8 for 915 Inkster. Good evening. Zach Hanna, DHE, on behalf of the client, the homeowner of this property. We have this property started construction last year. It's a new house construction. And when we try to put the pool, because of the topo of, you notice that the the house is on a hill because of the top of the land we needed to add a retaining wall so we'll be able to build the pool and adding a hot tub on the basement level and a couple of fireballs on the pool as well so what we are requesting variance for this one and I'm happy to answer any questions we're planning on screening the retaining wall yes well actually the retaining wall is not going to be seen from outside because the top of it's only the driveway if you look at the property you see this driveway going all the way but either way we're going to put additional three on the other side just in case but it's not going to be shown so even the new construction neighbor to your north he's not able to see from their house or yard but either way we're gonna put screening no matter what that sounds like a great answer I like that any other questions I'll open this to the public you would like to comment oh yeah come right up to the microphone and just give us your name and address no no you can do it you can do it at the microphone we don't want you to strain your vocal cords Ellen Callahan 1995 Craigen Drive we my husband and I

  55. you notice that the the house is on a hill because of the top of the land we needed to add a retaining wall so we'll be able to build the pool and adding a hot tub on the basement level and a couple of fireballs on the pool as well so what we are requesting variance for this one and I'm happy to answer any questions we're planning on screening the retaining wall yes well actually the retaining wall is not going to be seen from outside because the top of it's only the driveway if you look at the property you see this driveway going all the way but either way we're going to put additional three on the other side just in case but it's not going to be shown so even the new construction neighbor to your north he's not able to see from their house or yard but either way we're gonna put screening no matter what that sounds like a great answer I like that any other questions I'll open this to the public you would like to comment oh yeah come right up to the microphone and just give us your name and address no no you can do it you can do it at the microphone we don't want you to strain your vocal cords Ellen Callahan 1995 Craigen Drive we my husband and I have the property two houses to the north not the new construction but the one there so I'm curious as to you say there is you have to talk to us sorry I I would like to understand the level of screening as well, not only visually, but also sound. Natural vegetation, like an arborvitae ball, has some sound barrier to it. I just would like to understand what is that level of screening planned. Okay. Anyone else would like to speak on this item? I'm going to close the public hearing. And then, so you can see, you've got to respond to the request. Yeah, we're going to put like evergreens or other trees that can provide a full screening of the visual screening. And also it's going to provide some sound as well. But we're not anticipating any loud use of the pool or anything like that.

  56. to strain your vocal cords Ellen Callahan 1995 Craigen Drive we my husband and I have the property two houses to the north not the new construction but the one there so I'm curious as to you say there is you have to talk to us sorry I I would like to understand the level of screening as well, not only visually, but also sound. Natural vegetation, like an arborvitae ball, has some sound barrier to it. I just would like to understand what is that level of screening planned. Okay. Anyone else would like to speak on this item? I'm going to close the public hearing. And then, so you can see, you've got to respond to the request. Yeah, we're going to put like evergreens or other trees that can provide a full screening of the visual screening. And also it's going to provide some sound as well. But we're not anticipating any loud use of the pool or anything like that. So, I've got a question. Yeah, you might be thinking the same thing. Go ahead, ask your question. So, while we're not going to have an open discussion with the lady, so her question was probably more geared towards sound mitigation from the pool. I believe our board can only enforce the screening associated with the retaining wall, which would be the 10 feet. So, again, if the pool is over 10 feet, the screening plan that you're talking about is only in front of the retaining wall. Oh, thank. Thank you. Correct? No. We're going to put screening on the higher side as well, I mean, because of the top of the lot. So the screening, the trees is going to be all around. Even on the, the pool is going on the south side. Yes. So the screening is going to be all around. It's not going to be only from one side. So the pool will not be visible by any of the neighbors? No. So when you say you're going to be putting screening. Here's all I was thinking. We really need to see a screening, but I don't like to do this, but I really, it's too vague. Right? He's, again, this is important, it seems like it's too vague. And it's not that we're saying no, it's, I can't understand, regardless of some of the

  57. So, I've got a question. Yeah, you might be thinking the same thing. Go ahead, ask your question. So, while we're not going to have an open discussion with the lady, so her question was probably more geared towards sound mitigation from the pool. I believe our board can only enforce the screening associated with the retaining wall, which would be the 10 feet. So, again, if the pool is over 10 feet, the screening plan that you're talking about is only in front of the retaining wall. Oh, thank. Thank you. Correct? No. We're going to put screening on the higher side as well, I mean, because of the top of the lot. So the screening, the trees is going to be all around. Even on the, the pool is going on the south side. Yes. So the screening is going to be all around. It's not going to be only from one side. So the pool will not be visible by any of the neighbors? No. So when you say you're going to be putting screening. Here's all I was thinking. We really need to see a screening, but I don't like to do this, but I really, it's too vague. Right? He's, again, this is important, it seems like it's too vague. And it's not that we're saying no, it's, I can't understand, regardless of some of the neighbors' objections, we have to understand how you're screening this. And you saying it, I don't see it. Whereas some of the other applicants, they showed us 3D renderings, they showed me what that means. They show where, where the trees are going to be planted. And then, then I can hold them to it and so can our ordinance officer. It's hard for us to say it'll be screened. And that's a, that's pretty vague for us. Is the problem is the retaining wall or the pool? I would like to know all of your screening plan so that I can make an objective. Yeah. The problem is you've made a statement that we need clarity on. So you said we're going to, you're going to put screening everywhere and you're going to put it around the pool and everything's going to be surrounded. We need a picture of that. So basically the, the boundary of the lot is going to be all screened with the trees. Is that. Is that. Is that. Is that. make sense it does but what document do you have that i can then say this is for our ordinance officer to enforce we can we can provide it to the township or to the building department or to you guys put it conditional we're fine with that i guess my clarification is um i'm assuming or i shouldn't assume but what i'm hearing is that the intention is to provide for evergreen plantings

  58. And it's not that we're saying no, it's, I can't understand, regardless of some of the neighbors' objections, we have to understand how you're screening this. And you saying it, I don't see it. Whereas some of the other applicants, they showed us 3D renderings, they showed me what that means. They show where, where the trees are going to be planted. And then, then I can hold them to it and so can our ordinance officer. It's hard for us to say it'll be screened. And that's a, that's pretty vague for us. Is the problem is the retaining wall or the pool? I would like to know all of your screening plan so that I can make an objective. Yeah. The problem is you've made a statement that we need clarity on. So you said we're going to, you're going to put screening everywhere and you're going to put it around the pool and everything's going to be surrounded. We need a picture of that. So basically the, the boundary of the lot is going to be all screened with the trees. Is that. Is that. Is that. Is that. make sense it does but what document do you have that i can then say this is for our ordinance officer to enforce we can we can provide it to the township or to the building department or to you guys put it conditional we're fine with that i guess my clarification is um i'm assuming or i shouldn't assume but what i'm hearing is that the intention is to provide for evergreen plantings along the entire northerly lot line where it would impact the resident that spoke and then also you staying along the easterly and southerly so that could be part of the motion if the board were so inclined is to specifically give that condition with evergreen plantings screening along the northerly lot line westerly in you know and then we'd have something um i guess the question is from the northerly screening are you intending on doing the entire northerly lot line or just at some point along the house no just to to cover the area i mean it's up to my client of course but uh in this case will cover the pool area so the pool the pool and retaining wall will not be going to be visible from the north side then i will let the board make their determination based on the information provided so that's you you say it's up to my client if i make a motion it won't be because then if the client says I want to do that then you don't get you. No no no what I mean is the additional screening to the to the west side is not required because there is no pool nothing there but if the client want to put the trees for the entire length of the or the property line

  59. or i shouldn't assume but what i'm hearing is that the intention is to provide for evergreen plantings along the entire northerly lot line where it would impact the resident that spoke and then also you staying along the easterly and southerly so that could be part of the motion if the board were so inclined is to specifically give that condition with evergreen plantings screening along the northerly lot line westerly in you know and then we'd have something um i guess the question is from the northerly screening are you intending on doing the entire northerly lot line or just at some point along the house no just to to cover the area i mean it's up to my client of course but uh in this case will cover the pool area so the pool the pool and retaining wall will not be going to be visible from the north side then i will let the board make their determination based on the information provided so that's you you say it's up to my client if i make a motion it won't be because then if the client says I want to do that then you don't get you. No no no what I mean is the additional screening to the to the west side is not required because there is no pool nothing there but if the client want to put the trees for the entire length of the or the property line that's going to be an extra. So Mr. Henry I'm having a tough time because uh he has mentioned and I can see it from his topography the lot goes down so is his trees on the outside going to be 20 feet because there's such a great change that would be part of the requirement you'd have to we'd have to put a height you know there's that be a minimum height of the tree so and again he has mentioned it and he's right again beautiful home interesting topography that you're probably building through so how do we enforce that or say it based on the fact I don't know what the grade change is and how high it needs to be in order to block that visit like and it would be fair for us to come up with an arbitrary number we're guessing right so what is what is the purpose of the screen maybe we can answer that is why why are we working so he's offered it we've gotten feedback from the neighbor about noise so what's the purpose of this screening as opposed to so it's not there's not a shed that we're being screened here we have a retaining wall and a hot tub so it's a hot tub and retaining wall yeah and whatever that height is yes yes so it would seem like Eight, nine, eight. It just said.

  60. but if the client want to put the trees for the entire length of the or the property line that's going to be an extra. So Mr. Henry I'm having a tough time because uh he has mentioned and I can see it from his topography the lot goes down so is his trees on the outside going to be 20 feet because there's such a great change that would be part of the requirement you'd have to we'd have to put a height you know there's that be a minimum height of the tree so and again he has mentioned it and he's right again beautiful home interesting topography that you're probably building through so how do we enforce that or say it based on the fact I don't know what the grade change is and how high it needs to be in order to block that visit like and it would be fair for us to come up with an arbitrary number we're guessing right so what is what is the purpose of the screen maybe we can answer that is why why are we working so he's offered it we've gotten feedback from the neighbor about noise so what's the purpose of this screening as opposed to so it's not there's not a shed that we're being screened here we have a retaining wall and a hot tub so it's a hot tub and retaining wall yeah and whatever that height is yes yes so it would seem like Eight, nine, eight. It just said. to be screened. So a lot of public views. Yeah, so at 8 feet. But the retaining wall is 10. What's that? The retaining wall is 10 feet. And then what's the height of your hot tub? Oh, the hot tub is 4 feet high. It's shallow, on the basement level. On the basement level. Is that going to be on top of the retaining walls? No, no, no. That's below the retaining wall. So it has to be 10 feet. It has to be 10 feet. And I guess maybe as a further condition we'd say he's got to turn in a drawing to the staff. I mean, I'm trying to avoid coming back, but I understand that. But a screening plan would typically be something that you'd want to look at. Are you looking at the topography? Yeah. Yeah. So what we're thinking is 10 foot, 10 foot evergreen on the perimeter. It looks like it's only a couple feet of difference. From the edge of the pool to the property line, based on this topography.

  61. to be screened. So a lot of public views. Yeah, so at 8 feet. But the retaining wall is 10. What's that? The retaining wall is 10 feet. And then what's the height of your hot tub? Oh, the hot tub is 4 feet high. It's shallow, on the basement level. On the basement level. Is that going to be on top of the retaining walls? No, no, no. That's below the retaining wall. So it has to be 10 feet. It has to be 10 feet. And I guess maybe as a further condition we'd say he's got to turn in a drawing to the staff. I mean, I'm trying to avoid coming back, but I understand that. But a screening plan would typically be something that you'd want to look at. Are you looking at the topography? Yeah. Yeah. So what we're thinking is 10 foot, 10 foot evergreen on the perimeter. It looks like it's only a couple feet of difference. From the edge of the pool to the property line, based on this topography. Okay. So it's 2 feet. So that gives us zero. So depending on how high it has to be, we have to add 2 feet to it, at least. So now we're at 12. And I've gone up above. 12 feet. 12 foot sure are we going to specify the height or are we just going to say it has to be screened at the height of the well to completely screen it you know what I mean I mean are we going to say it has to be 12 feet or are we going to say it has minimum we can say minimum 12 feet that's what I guess the way I word it because then if there's some topography changes or in field changes associated with your clients requirements or your professional expertise then you know what you have to do based on the data provided to date yes and isn't isn't that better for enforcement I mean at least now you've got a height you've got a minimum height as opposed to because I think would be very difficult to then say the height of because of the geography change there's too many variables here I think as long as we had a definitive height 12 feet obviously the intention is for screening purposes so we know what that entails in terms of visual visually um but then just clarifying along what property lines would probably help

  62. From the edge of the pool to the property line, based on this topography. Okay. So it's 2 feet. So that gives us zero. So depending on how high it has to be, we have to add 2 feet to it, at least. So now we're at 12. And I've gone up above. 12 feet. 12 foot sure are we going to specify the height or are we just going to say it has to be screened at the height of the well to completely screen it you know what I mean I mean are we going to say it has to be 12 feet or are we going to say it has minimum we can say minimum 12 feet that's what I guess the way I word it because then if there's some topography changes or in field changes associated with your clients requirements or your professional expertise then you know what you have to do based on the data provided to date yes and isn't isn't that better for enforcement I mean at least now you've got a height you've got a minimum height as opposed to because I think would be very difficult to then say the height of because of the geography change there's too many variables here I think as long as we had a definitive height 12 feet obviously the intention is for screening purposes so we know what that entails in terms of visual visually um but then just clarifying along what property lines would probably help well but I thought so you said you're so you were going to do it on the northern north east and south correct yeah yeah thank you now and then how far how far how far forward either the pool plane or the plane of the back of the home yeah so that way that still gives your client some latitude if they want to create either it comes back in or if they continue down that yes and your clients to be okay with this yeah oh even better he's smiling there that's great give us a thumbs up is this good all right he's still smiling which is even better yeah so I'm ready to make a motion based on that okay support outstanding analysis thank you for your work thank you for doing your best to accommodate neighbors operation and cooperation in the back there and obviously who is in support of it just trying to make sure that it minimizes the impact but not trying to be a barrier to your client

  63. um but then just clarifying along what property lines would probably help well but I thought so you said you're so you were going to do it on the northern north east and south correct yeah yeah thank you now and then how far how far how far forward either the pool plane or the plane of the back of the home yeah so that way that still gives your client some latitude if they want to create either it comes back in or if they continue down that yes and your clients to be okay with this yeah oh even better he's smiling there that's great give us a thumbs up is this good all right he's still smiling which is even better yeah so I'm ready to make a motion based on that okay support outstanding analysis thank you for your work thank you for doing your best to accommodate neighbors operation and cooperation in the back there and obviously who is in support of it just trying to make sure that it minimizes the impact but not trying to be a barrier to your client your inkster road right sorry you gotta give me a second okay this is number eight this is number eight so number eight so four nine we have one five two permissions two permissions for the hot tub and then dimensional so in regards to the appeal at 49 15 inkster road for the permission request for the accessory structure of the hot tub I move the request be submitted as approved based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance of section 42 dash 76 standards because use of this accessory structure is appropriate neighborhood people have these type of things in the back of their home second for the dimensional variance for the application for in regards to appeal at 4915 Inkster Road for the variance for retaining wall that is over four feet I move the variance be approved as amended based information presented on application applicant did demonstrate all compliance for practical difficulty because compliance restrict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because they would not be able to build that pool and spa area because of the unique topography of it there's no justice to the adjoining neighbors because we're gonna be screening it based on what we talked about in a second you can serve this property have been demonstrated because of the fact of unique topography as well as retaining

  64. your inkster road right sorry you gotta give me a second okay this is number eight this is number eight so number eight so four nine we have one five two permissions two permissions for the hot tub and then dimensional so in regards to the appeal at 49 15 inkster road for the permission request for the accessory structure of the hot tub I move the request be submitted as approved based on information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance of section 42 dash 76 standards because use of this accessory structure is appropriate neighborhood people have these type of things in the back of their home second for the dimensional variance for the application for in regards to appeal at 4915 Inkster Road for the variance for retaining wall that is over four feet I move the variance be approved as amended based information presented on application applicant did demonstrate all compliance for practical difficulty because compliance restrict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because they would not be able to build that pool and spa area because of the unique topography of it there's no justice to the adjoining neighbors because we're gonna be screening it based on what we talked about in a second you can serve this property have been demonstrated because of the fact of unique topography as well as retaining wall so that they continue to enjoy their beautiful backyard this is not self credit because again it's unique topography now if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year additional evergreen screenings will be required so along your northern eastern and southern property to the plane of the back of the home will be planting a minimum of 12 foot evergreen so that we cannot see that way I cannot see your hot tub and I cannot see the retaining wall okay we have two firewalls so just to make sure we have those are included as part of the patio we don't take those before the market perfect I would have approved them anyway since you're so nice but we got it through so again so again just so we're clear 12 foot along the northern eastern and southern property to the back plane of the home if the homeowner decides to go further and it's gonna be a minimum of 12 foot either staggered or straight spacing so I can't see threat. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, congratulations. Your request as clarified and modified is granted. Thank you.

  65. demonstrated because of the fact of unique topography as well as retaining wall so that they continue to enjoy their beautiful backyard this is not self credit because again it's unique topography now if this motion is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year additional evergreen screenings will be required so along your northern eastern and southern property to the plane of the back of the home will be planting a minimum of 12 foot evergreen so that we cannot see that way I cannot see your hot tub and I cannot see the retaining wall okay we have two firewalls so just to make sure we have those are included as part of the patio we don't take those before the market perfect I would have approved them anyway since you're so nice but we got it through so again so again just so we're clear 12 foot along the northern eastern and southern property to the back plane of the home if the homeowner decides to go further and it's gonna be a minimum of 12 foot either staggered or straight spacing so I can't see threat. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed, congratulations. Your request as clarified and modified is granted. Thank you. All right, so item 9-4246, Sandy Lane. Thank you board for allowing us to present our project. I am James Trenacosta. This is my wife, Marty Trenacosta. We reside at 4246 Sandy Lane in the Foxcroft sub, which is a really unique sub. I'm sure you're aware of that. We've lived there for eight years. We love the township. We love the subdivision. We love doing really cool things. We have a beautiful sub. We have a unique house and a unique spot on a unique lot. And we want to do a unique project. And you guys could consider it a garage once you see some of the drawings. It's really not a garage. It's more than a garage. It's just a really unique structure we're trying to add to complement our home. You know, with that said, I'd like to turn it over to Harold Remlinger, who's the architect. He's done an amazing job and he can explain more of the project. Lawrence Strongman, who's the architect? We're nowية Mayweather, last part of the business industry, who live in

  66. Opposed, congratulations. Your request as clarified and modified is granted. Thank you. All right, so item 9-4246, Sandy Lane. Thank you board for allowing us to present our project. I am James Trenacosta. This is my wife, Marty Trenacosta. We reside at 4246 Sandy Lane in the Foxcroft sub, which is a really unique sub. I'm sure you're aware of that. We've lived there for eight years. We love the township. We love the subdivision. We love doing really cool things. We have a beautiful sub. We have a unique house and a unique spot on a unique lot. And we want to do a unique project. And you guys could consider it a garage once you see some of the drawings. It's really not a garage. It's more than a garage. It's just a really unique structure we're trying to add to complement our home. You know, with that said, I'd like to turn it over to Harold Remlinger, who's the architect. He's done an amazing job and he can explain more of the project. Lawrence Strongman, who's the architect? We're nowية Mayweather, last part of the business industry, who live in Good evening, Harold Bremlinger, Design Team Plus, 975 East Maple, Birmingham, Michigan. Let's talk about the challenges, most of it dealing with the grade and the topography. I know you looked at the project. You can see the elevations. You know, just to set it in perspective, going west to east on the lot from Shady Lane to the edge of the west driveway, we have three and a half feet of fall in property. So water course right now is all draining from Shady Lane across our front yard onto the driveway. The driveway itself drops another three and a half inches to the east. And then from there, our site drops 13 foot, five inches vertical within 34 feet horizontal. That's about a 39 percent grade when you look at that. So as going north to south, again, we do have topography to deal with. Our driveway is sloping towards the front garage doors of the existing principal structure, and it is dropping approximately one foot two inches towards the existing house. So we have some water course that we need to take a look at. Per the zoning ordinance, our two district requiring 40 foot setback on front yard. This is a corner lot. We have two front yards.

  67. Good evening, Harold Bremlinger, Design Team Plus, 975 East Maple, Birmingham, Michigan. Let's talk about the challenges, most of it dealing with the grade and the topography. I know you looked at the project. You can see the elevations. You know, just to set it in perspective, going west to east on the lot from Shady Lane to the edge of the west driveway, we have three and a half feet of fall in property. So water course right now is all draining from Shady Lane across our front yard onto the driveway. The driveway itself drops another three and a half inches to the east. And then from there, our site drops 13 foot, five inches vertical within 34 feet horizontal. That's about a 39 percent grade when you look at that. So as going north to south, again, we do have topography to deal with. Our driveway is sloping towards the front garage doors of the existing principal structure, and it is dropping approximately one foot two inches towards the existing house. So we have some water course that we need to take a look at. Per the zoning ordinance, our two district requiring 40 foot setback on front yard. This is a corner lot. We have two front yards. The current principal structure is legal non-conforming. It is not 40 feet off of Sandy Lane, nor is it 40 feet off of Valley Forge. Sandy Lane, it's 35 foot four. Valley Forge, it's 38 feet. However, under- the deed restrictions we do meet the requirements of minimum setback which is set by the deed restrictions of 30 feet from the line of the street we are currently over that on both of those and meet the requirements on that the design of the addition is subject to meeting the standards of the foxcroft architectural building guidelines which states under section c um that it requires the building design to be compatible with the historical architectural character fox fox fox croft also under section a or h of that same uh guidelines um it does not allow detached structures therefore our garage is attached with the breezeway which is seen in our drawings we took a look at a couple different options when we were designing the garage one of which was do we do a double loaded uh garages extend to the front of the garage going to the north the problem with that is currently the driveway is a five percent grade if we were to extend that garage further

  68. We have two front yards. The current principal structure is legal non-conforming. It is not 40 feet off of Sandy Lane, nor is it 40 feet off of Valley Forge. Sandy Lane, it's 35 foot four. Valley Forge, it's 38 feet. However, under- the deed restrictions we do meet the requirements of minimum setback which is set by the deed restrictions of 30 feet from the line of the street we are currently over that on both of those and meet the requirements on that the design of the addition is subject to meeting the standards of the foxcroft architectural building guidelines which states under section c um that it requires the building design to be compatible with the historical architectural character fox fox fox croft also under section a or h of that same uh guidelines um it does not allow detached structures therefore our garage is attached with the breezeway which is seen in our drawings we took a look at a couple different options when we were designing the garage one of which was do we do a double loaded uh garages extend to the front of the garage going to the north the problem with that is currently the driveway is a five percent grade if we were to extend that garage further closer to valley forge we would be exceeding 13 grade oakland county uh standards as well as bloomfield township standards require minimum maximum of a 10 grade on driveways we would never be able to meet that and then that would also exacerbate the issue of water runoff coming off of valley forge down the driveway entering into the garage which is at the lower level so we also looked at if we attach the garage to the east We would then be looking at having 13-foot high retaining walls to retain our driveway, the entire length of the driveway to allow a car to be able to turn into that addition, as well as it would affect the existing retaining walls that are there and the terrace landscaping that is currently installed on that property. Our alternative was to do a garage subject further away from the existing doors of the attached garage, allowing any vehicle entering to that garage to be able to back out and head out onto Valley Forge forward instead of backing out. Since there is heavy landscape coverage on the parcel of land, which you can see in the landscape plan with the trees and bushes there to the north, that my client has been maintaining, and that is actually township property currently.

  69. that is currently the driveway is a five percent grade if we were to extend that garage further closer to valley forge we would be exceeding 13 grade oakland county uh standards as well as bloomfield township standards require minimum maximum of a 10 grade on driveways we would never be able to meet that and then that would also exacerbate the issue of water runoff coming off of valley forge down the driveway entering into the garage which is at the lower level so we also looked at if we attach the garage to the east We would then be looking at having 13-foot high retaining walls to retain our driveway, the entire length of the driveway to allow a car to be able to turn into that addition, as well as it would affect the existing retaining walls that are there and the terrace landscaping that is currently installed on that property. Our alternative was to do a garage subject further away from the existing doors of the attached garage, allowing any vehicle entering to that garage to be able to back out and head out onto Valley Forge forward instead of backing out. Since there is heavy landscape coverage on the parcel of land, which you can see in the landscape plan with the trees and bushes there to the north, that my client has been maintaining, and that is actually township property currently. So by having the garage in the position it's at, the breezeway that we're proposing is acting as a bridge. We are not putting foundation underneath it. This will allow all the existing water course and water drainage that is happening on the property to go around the new proposed addition and then enter into the rear yard, not affecting any runoff into the space or affecting any washout or any of that stuff. We are aware that we do exceed the 50% of our principal structure floor. Current existing home is 1,526 square feet. Current attached garage is 687 square feet. The proposed garage is 384 square feet. And right now, even though we are exceeding that percentage, not by much, but slightly, our lot usage allowable in Bloomfield Township's 30% loss usage for this zoning district, we are currently at 8.8% of lot usage only.

  70. Since there is heavy landscape coverage on the parcel of land, which you can see in the landscape plan with the trees and bushes there to the north, that my client has been maintaining, and that is actually township property currently. So by having the garage in the position it's at, the breezeway that we're proposing is acting as a bridge. We are not putting foundation underneath it. This will allow all the existing water course and water drainage that is happening on the property to go around the new proposed addition and then enter into the rear yard, not affecting any runoff into the space or affecting any washout or any of that stuff. We are aware that we do exceed the 50% of our principal structure floor. Current existing home is 1,526 square feet. Current attached garage is 687 square feet. The proposed garage is 384 square feet. And right now, even though we are exceeding that percentage, not by much, but slightly, our lot usage allowable in Bloomfield Township's 30% loss usage for this zoning district, we are currently at 8.8% of lot usage only. I do know there's some dimensional of requests here as well, one being the height. Based on the deed restrictions, keeping with the architectural character of the existing house, matching the roof slopes of the existing houses feels like it's seamless. That then increased the height of it. Unfortunately, we do have over 13 feet of drop. There's nothing we can do about the east side elevation being close to 29 feet. Just for the fact of the uniqueness of this property. And that drop is contiguous on either side of the principal structure. And it just drops off at that point. I'm open to answering any questions that you may have regarding this project. Any questions from the board? Any questions from the board? So, let's open this to the public. Is there's someone here who would like to comment on this item? You're welcome. Okay. Come up and.

  71. loss usage for this zoning district, we are currently at 8.8% of lot usage only. I do know there's some dimensional of requests here as well, one being the height. Based on the deed restrictions, keeping with the architectural character of the existing house, matching the roof slopes of the existing houses feels like it's seamless. That then increased the height of it. Unfortunately, we do have over 13 feet of drop. There's nothing we can do about the east side elevation being close to 29 feet. Just for the fact of the uniqueness of this property. And that drop is contiguous on either side of the principal structure. And it just drops off at that point. I'm open to answering any questions that you may have regarding this project. Any questions from the board? Any questions from the board? So, let's open this to the public. Is there's someone here who would like to comment on this item? You're welcome. Okay. Come up and. Hi. My name is Joanne Friday. I live at 4205 Valley Forge, which is directly behind the Terra Costas. I do have several concerns. I know I'm not alone, but due to time, we're going to try to make it so you get out tonight. So the first concern I have is this, because of the elevation, is going to be a three-story garage tower. I don't know what else to call it. Structure. So we live behind, and when we moved into Foxcroft, if you've ever had the pleasure of going to Foxcroft, it is unique. It is gorgeous. It's a setting back in time. This will be the only structure of its nature in the entire neighborhood. Besides the fact that it's setting up a dangerous precedent, it's also, we're going to be looking at it. Our backyard is going to be looking at this three-story structure from the back. So that's two issues. The other one I have is, I don't know which, the bottom, the bottom corner picture, I think that's it. I'm not an architect. So there's a picture. Thank you.

  72. Hi. My name is Joanne Friday. I live at 4205 Valley Forge, which is directly behind the Terra Costas. I do have several concerns. I know I'm not alone, but due to time, we're going to try to make it so you get out tonight. So the first concern I have is this, because of the elevation, is going to be a three-story garage tower. I don't know what else to call it. Structure. So we live behind, and when we moved into Foxcroft, if you've ever had the pleasure of going to Foxcroft, it is unique. It is gorgeous. It's a setting back in time. This will be the only structure of its nature in the entire neighborhood. Besides the fact that it's setting up a dangerous precedent, it's also, we're going to be looking at it. Our backyard is going to be looking at this three-story structure from the back. So that's two issues. The other one I have is, I don't know which, the bottom, the bottom corner picture, I think that's it. I'm not an architect. So there's a picture. Thank you. where the bottom, the ravine height level, is a garage door. The owner reached out to us a couple years ago and said he wanted to build a shed that would house or store a car and then build a driveway down there. And he asked if we'd have a problem with it, and we said we would. He did, in fairness, reach out to us. He said he already had board approval for this proposal and said he would get us a copy of the prints, which we never did get from him. So I have the concern with having the garage on the bottom of the ravine is I'm nervous that he's going to then try to put in the driveway. And the last time he did building, he didn't pull the correct permit that I'm aware of. So I found out from the city, thank you city people, that a wall can be 3 1⁄2 feet, like the wall for a deck, can be 3 1⁄2 feet or reach 8 feet total. Because I'm not an architect, we just took a picture, because I can't describe it. So this, the lower wall is, yeah, the lower wall is 5 feet alone.

  73. where the bottom, the ravine height level, is a garage door. The owner reached out to us a couple years ago and said he wanted to build a shed that would house or store a car and then build a driveway down there. And he asked if we'd have a problem with it, and we said we would. He did, in fairness, reach out to us. He said he already had board approval for this proposal and said he would get us a copy of the prints, which we never did get from him. So I have the concern with having the garage on the bottom of the ravine is I'm nervous that he's going to then try to put in the driveway. And the last time he did building, he didn't pull the correct permit that I'm aware of. So I found out from the city, thank you city people, that a wall can be 3 1⁄2 feet, like the wall for a deck, can be 3 1⁄2 feet or reach 8 feet total. Because I'm not an architect, we just took a picture, because I can't describe it. So this, the lower wall is, yeah, the lower wall is 5 feet alone. The second level is 4 feet. So now I've gone from a picture of all ravine and all trees to over a 9-foot... And this is what you're going to do. There's a lot of trees that's been, As a wall, the trees are designed to make sure concrete walls for the deck and now we're going to build a three-story garage next to it. So it's really changing the whole view and the feel for the, not just the neighborhood, but for our backyard. I'm also concerned about the public safety. It is a corner lot and on the one of the fronts there's a stop sign there on Sandy Lane, but on Valley Forge people really cruise. This is a neighborhood, if you know anything, there are people walking in all weather with all dogs, with children, non-stop. If you build this structure, you're not going to be able to see around it and I'm nervous not so much for the neighbors in all candor, but for the Amazon drivers, Uber, DoorDash, because you, if you're at the stop sign, you can see right now down all of Valley Forge. You will not be able to with this

  74. So this, the lower wall is, yeah, the lower wall is 5 feet alone. The second level is 4 feet. So now I've gone from a picture of all ravine and all trees to over a 9-foot... And this is what you're going to do. There's a lot of trees that's been, As a wall, the trees are designed to make sure concrete walls for the deck and now we're going to build a three-story garage next to it. So it's really changing the whole view and the feel for the, not just the neighborhood, but for our backyard. I'm also concerned about the public safety. It is a corner lot and on the one of the fronts there's a stop sign there on Sandy Lane, but on Valley Forge people really cruise. This is a neighborhood, if you know anything, there are people walking in all weather with all dogs, with children, non-stop. If you build this structure, you're not going to be able to see around it and I'm nervous not so much for the neighbors in all candor, but for the Amazon drivers, Uber, DoorDash, because you, if you're at the stop sign, you can see right now down all of Valley Forge. You will not be able to with this structure being built. It will, it will change that all together. I just, I don't know if that makes sense, hopefully. I know that I'm not alone. I know I'm, I'm speaking on behalf of several neighbors. They didn't want to come all because we didn't want to be here all night, frankly, but we have a lot of concerns about this. So, do you have any questions for me? And there's no indication like this, there was no trees built, there's no shrubs built. We look at this, we look at bright lights, which have been dimmed since I spoke with him, but that's been going on for a few years where I have asked directly, could you please turn the lights down? Because they go right into our bedroom and cast a shadow. And now we're going to have this other structure where I'm concerned, if this is approved, as is, there's an ulterior motive to then have a driveway to a garage that's right now going into a ravine. Do you guys want these? No, thank you. Okay. Anything else I can say? Any questions?

  75. see right now down all of Valley Forge. You will not be able to with this structure being built. It will, it will change that all together. I just, I don't know if that makes sense, hopefully. I know that I'm not alone. I know I'm, I'm speaking on behalf of several neighbors. They didn't want to come all because we didn't want to be here all night, frankly, but we have a lot of concerns about this. So, do you have any questions for me? And there's no indication like this, there was no trees built, there's no shrubs built. We look at this, we look at bright lights, which have been dimmed since I spoke with him, but that's been going on for a few years where I have asked directly, could you please turn the lights down? Because they go right into our bedroom and cast a shadow. And now we're going to have this other structure where I'm concerned, if this is approved, as is, there's an ulterior motive to then have a driveway to a garage that's right now going into a ravine. Do you guys want these? No, thank you. Okay. Anything else I can say? Any questions? Okay, thanks very much. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Yeah. On the side. My name is Bob Cloutier. I live at 612 Lantern Lane in Foxcroft. I'm the building director for the neighborhood, and I sign off on most all of these approvals. This one did get its sign off from the board and myself, though after seeing this additional garage door on the bottom side, I don't know if he's fully the 30 feet from the edge of the road to where the structure begins. which is where I was told he has ample footage for the township's rules. So it makes me very concerned that the distance from Valley Forge to where this new structure will be, this three-story garage structure, accessory garage structure, it's not showing any hardship. He already has a two-car garage attached to the house. This is just a single-car garage on the main level and then another building storage facility down below.

  76. Any questions? Okay, thanks very much. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? Yeah. On the side. My name is Bob Cloutier. I live at 612 Lantern Lane in Foxcroft. I'm the building director for the neighborhood, and I sign off on most all of these approvals. This one did get its sign off from the board and myself, though after seeing this additional garage door on the bottom side, I don't know if he's fully the 30 feet from the edge of the road to where the structure begins. which is where I was told he has ample footage for the township's rules. So it makes me very concerned that the distance from Valley Forge to where this new structure will be, this three-story garage structure, accessory garage structure, it's not showing any hardship. He already has a two-car garage attached to the house. This is just a single-car garage on the main level and then another building storage facility down below. So that being said, and again, it doesn't really fit with the three-story structure, it doesn't really fit with the charm of the neighborhood. Here you are in the ravine and you get this three-story tower accessory structure. So I guess I'm not following. Did you say that it was approved? We did approve it because he said that he had the setback, the 30 feet from the roadside. So, yes, we did approve it, but I'm still challenging the variances. So this is you now or the board? I'm the director, the building director. So is it a qualified approval? I guess I'm not following what you're saying. I would like you, the zoning board, to make sure that he has full compliance with the setbacks from Valley Forge. Okay. Because I don't think the 30 feet is really from the driveway to the edge of the new structure. Okay, thank you very much. That's all right. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? this side can i ask a question to him sure is it bob yeah so you had stated that you as a director had approved it was the was this the same plan that you saw regardless of the setbacks i didn't see these pictures directly no i saw what he had submitted to the city

  77. This is just a single-car garage on the main level and then another building storage facility down below. So that being said, and again, it doesn't really fit with the three-story structure, it doesn't really fit with the charm of the neighborhood. Here you are in the ravine and you get this three-story tower accessory structure. So I guess I'm not following. Did you say that it was approved? We did approve it because he said that he had the setback, the 30 feet from the roadside. So, yes, we did approve it, but I'm still challenging the variances. So this is you now or the board? I'm the director, the building director. So is it a qualified approval? I guess I'm not following what you're saying. I would like you, the zoning board, to make sure that he has full compliance with the setbacks from Valley Forge. Okay. Because I don't think the 30 feet is really from the driveway to the edge of the new structure. Okay, thank you very much. That's all right. Is there anyone else who'd like to speak? this side can i ask a question to him sure is it bob yeah so you had stated that you as a director had approved it was the was this the same plan that you saw regardless of the setbacks i didn't see these pictures directly no i saw what he had submitted to the city which was just some basic drawings with no landscape plans corey do you mind pulling up what you submitted to us and see if it matches so did it look like that that's what it looked like okay so but we see the different elevations we see the side of the back yep the other side and the front so you saw this and this is what you or your board approved correct with the understanding that they had the distance from the roadway to this three-story structure okay the 30 feet awesome thank you so much hello good evening my name is michelle straight and i live at four two three four sandy lane um i am in complete view of four two four six the backyard um and i'm sorry what's your address four two three four sandy lane thank you um if if i can get one of the pictures i can clear um joe can i get the pictures please so i can show them sorry i have a little bit of dry mouth um so

  78. i didn't see these pictures directly no i saw what he had submitted to the city which was just some basic drawings with no landscape plans corey do you mind pulling up what you submitted to us and see if it matches so did it look like that that's what it looked like okay so but we see the different elevations we see the side of the back yep the other side and the front so you saw this and this is what you or your board approved correct with the understanding that they had the distance from the roadway to this three-story structure okay the 30 feet awesome thank you so much hello good evening my name is michelle straight and i live at four two three four sandy lane um i am in complete view of four two four six the backyard um and i'm sorry what's your address four two three four sandy lane thank you um if if i can get one of the pictures i can clear um joe can i get the pictures please so i can show them sorry i have a little bit of dry mouth um so So my husband and I have lived in this house four or five years, and what we are trying to do is, I never received any type of drawing, I never received any type of plan, there was no communication when it comes to what they're looking at building. So there's no communication whatsoever. The only reason why we did receive the floor plan is because when we received the notification from your office, we are a bit concerned because it clearly stated a detached garage. And understanding the Foxcroft deed restrictions, that is not correct. But I do want to show you where my house is based, and this is the beauty I get to look at too, with the bright green lights. And I don't believe my neighbor, Joe, had shared with you that these are much harder than 3 1⁄2 feet when you add them all up, and this particular project did not pull permit. So we have some concerns as, I guess, an entire neighborhood. We did meet with several of our neighbors. We met on Sunday to discuss this, and basically what we want is, before any variation approval

  79. So my husband and I have lived in this house four or five years, and what we are trying to do is, I never received any type of drawing, I never received any type of plan, there was no communication when it comes to what they're looking at building. So there's no communication whatsoever. The only reason why we did receive the floor plan is because when we received the notification from your office, we are a bit concerned because it clearly stated a detached garage. And understanding the Foxcroft deed restrictions, that is not correct. But I do want to show you where my house is based, and this is the beauty I get to look at too, with the bright green lights. And I don't believe my neighbor, Joe, had shared with you that these are much harder than 3 1⁄2 feet when you add them all up, and this particular project did not pull permit. So we have some concerns as, I guess, an entire neighborhood. We did meet with several of our neighbors. We met on Sunday to discuss this, and basically what we want is, before any variation approval is given, we, as the neighbors most impacted, which is myself, Joe, and a couple other neighbors, the other Foxcroft residents. And the other Foxcroft residents. it is. request the following that there is more of a detailed plan that all neighbors could have the opportunity to comment on we need to know the full scope of the structure engineering that must be completed to build the garage tower into the ravine because he's building it into the ravine which is right next to Valley forges which is not too far away from the road so that's that's concerned as well sorry I wish I had some water we'd also like the homeowner to confirm that he is following the Foxcroft deed restriction under detached and that reads no single garages shall be permitted each garage must be attached directly or by an enclosed breezeway to the main building thank you very much super I'll drop one out to tomorrow thanks and so again the restriction reads no single garages shall be permitted each garage must be attached directly or

  80. We met on Sunday to discuss this, and basically what we want is, before any variation approval is given, we, as the neighbors most impacted, which is myself, Joe, and a couple other neighbors, the other Foxcroft residents. And the other Foxcroft residents. it is. request the following that there is more of a detailed plan that all neighbors could have the opportunity to comment on we need to know the full scope of the structure engineering that must be completed to build the garage tower into the ravine because he's building it into the ravine which is right next to Valley forges which is not too far away from the road so that's that's concerned as well sorry I wish I had some water we'd also like the homeowner to confirm that he is following the Foxcroft deed restriction under detached and that reads no single garages shall be permitted each garage must be attached directly or by an enclosed breezeway to the main building thank you very much super I'll drop one out to tomorrow thanks and so again the restriction reads no single garages shall be permitted each garage must be attached directly or by an enclosed breezeway to the main building the plans presented shows the breezeway out to a new porch not to the main building and there's absolutely no verbiage I mean information being shared with us that it is an enclosed breezeway the insurances of beautification if you know our area and you know the ravine my husband and I moved from a lake house to this very special area what we have seen now is trees being pulled without getting permits and that was at the very beginning of our move-in but what we also are seeing is this beautiful piece of artwork I guess you can call it but it's really ruining the beautification and when we hear that he is going to include I guess you can say evergreens utilized to screen we'd like to know exactly what type what size because at this point with some of the other projects that have been done there's a lack of trust and the pelvic public welfare concerns still not enough information to know how close to the

  81. reads no single garages shall be permitted each garage must be attached directly or by an enclosed breezeway to the main building the plans presented shows the breezeway out to a new porch not to the main building and there's absolutely no verbiage I mean information being shared with us that it is an enclosed breezeway the insurances of beautification if you know our area and you know the ravine my husband and I moved from a lake house to this very special area what we have seen now is trees being pulled without getting permits and that was at the very beginning of our move-in but what we also are seeing is this beautiful piece of artwork I guess you can call it but it's really ruining the beautification and when we hear that he is going to include I guess you can say evergreens utilized to screen we'd like to know exactly what type what size because at this point with some of the other projects that have been done there's a lack of trust and the pelvic public welfare concerns still not enough information to know how close to the street this will be and if it will obstruct views on the oncoming traffic the potential impact upon road traffic safety that would be occasioned by local locating a detached garage tower on back Valley Forge must be studied and a preventative measure taken daily the neighborhood is has deliveries delivery vehicles workers trucks and other vehicles in which the drivers send familiar with the neighborhood this detached garage tower is going to be another distraction there are many more questions of understanding regard to this plan we sincerely request the board to pause on approval until Valid details are provided. This city cannot go on good faith for this particular plan. Thank you. Questions? Is there anyone else that'd like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and let the applicant respond to the comments. Excuse me, I would like to respond to the comments.

  82. welfare concerns still not enough information to know how close to the street this will be and if it will obstruct views on the oncoming traffic the potential impact upon road traffic safety that would be occasioned by local locating a detached garage tower on back Valley Forge must be studied and a preventative measure taken daily the neighborhood is has deliveries delivery vehicles workers trucks and other vehicles in which the drivers send familiar with the neighborhood this detached garage tower is going to be another distraction there are many more questions of understanding regard to this plan we sincerely request the board to pause on approval until Valid details are provided. This city cannot go on good faith for this particular plan. Thank you. Questions? Is there anyone else that'd like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and let the applicant respond to the comments. Excuse me, I would like to respond to the comments. In regards to the worries that the structure is too close to the road, the placement of the structure is 32 feet from the edge of Valley Forge and over 50 feet from the edge of Sandy Lane. This will not obstruct any cars going around that corner. It's set back far enough. The current vegetation that's at the edge of Valley Forge blocks your visual view of the people coming down that road. So that's no issue with that. In regards to the retaining walls, my client was contacted by the city regarding that. He did hire a licensed contractor to perform that work. Unfortunately, they did not pull permits, and unfortunately, they are no longer in business. So there's no recourse that we can go back towards them. I do know in a quick measurement that we did. OK. OK. OK. we're looking about four feet vertical to ten feet horizontal for each one of those and there was a conversation with the applicant as he stated as I was aware that the retaining walls were of a concern I did have a discussion based on

  83. Excuse me, I would like to respond to the comments. In regards to the worries that the structure is too close to the road, the placement of the structure is 32 feet from the edge of Valley Forge and over 50 feet from the edge of Sandy Lane. This will not obstruct any cars going around that corner. It's set back far enough. The current vegetation that's at the edge of Valley Forge blocks your visual view of the people coming down that road. So that's no issue with that. In regards to the retaining walls, my client was contacted by the city regarding that. He did hire a licensed contractor to perform that work. Unfortunately, they did not pull permits, and unfortunately, they are no longer in business. So there's no recourse that we can go back towards them. I do know in a quick measurement that we did. OK. OK. OK. we're looking about four feet vertical to ten feet horizontal for each one of those and there was a conversation with the applicant as he stated as I was aware that the retaining walls were of a concern I did have a discussion based on the information presented to our one of our plan reviewers in our departments and if a retaining wall does not exceed four feet in height and it meets the eight foot separation between retaining walls we do not require a permit so there is and then also in the conversations that I had with the gentleman that the dias or at the microphone is that this was a repair and a replacement however I did state that based on them going out there doing the measurements if they verified that something does not comply with our retaining wall ordinance that that would likely necessitate a trip back to the zoning board that is why they went out and did the measurements to determine that it does not exceed four feet in height and that the vertical our retaining wall ordinance does allow for a single retaining wall as long as it's 16 feet off the lot line it can be four feet with an eight-foot separation and then another four feet so we are trying to work with the applicant to determine if it in fact meets the letter of the law okay so we haven't confirmed the four feet yet he's presenting now that he went out and measured at a conversation and I was contacted by someone here from Bloomfield they're coming out tomorrow and I did verify

  84. aware that the retaining walls were of a concern I did have a discussion based on the information presented to our one of our plan reviewers in our departments and if a retaining wall does not exceed four feet in height and it meets the eight foot separation between retaining walls we do not require a permit so there is and then also in the conversations that I had with the gentleman that the dias or at the microphone is that this was a repair and a replacement however I did state that based on them going out there doing the measurements if they verified that something does not comply with our retaining wall ordinance that that would likely necessitate a trip back to the zoning board that is why they went out and did the measurements to determine that it does not exceed four feet in height and that the vertical our retaining wall ordinance does allow for a single retaining wall as long as it's 16 feet off the lot line it can be four feet with an eight-foot separation and then another four feet so we are trying to work with the applicant to determine if it in fact meets the letter of the law okay so we haven't confirmed the four feet yet he's presenting now that he went out and measured at a conversation and I was contacted by someone here from Bloomfield they're coming out tomorrow and I did verify measured it four up 10 back four up okay pretty clear so it was done with superior escape they were the company you guys may have heard of them they went out of business unfortunately so I got no one I'm sorry I interrupted the response as to the comment regarding garages must be attached with an enclosed breezeway that comment is incorrect underneath the Foxcroft architectural guidelines section H accessory structures and uses all its states as detached garages are prohibited unless connected to the primary structure with a breezeway well we're here we give variances from the Bloomfield Township zoning ordinance correct which I'm yeah I'm just commenting to that so that you understand that their comment was incorrect we're not we're not dealing with the deed restrictions and the variances right attached garage okay we had numerous meetings with the subdivision Association we met with David Webb and Robert Coltier on the site we also met with them on a team's call to present to them the renderings so that they can get a better visual of what we were building out there obviously we just verify the plans that were submitted to them are the plans that you see before you there is no bait and switch here that has taken place you know it's it's obvious that you know I know precedence doesn't

  85. measured it four up 10 back four up okay pretty clear so it was done with superior escape they were the company you guys may have heard of them they went out of business unfortunately so I got no one I'm sorry I interrupted the response as to the comment regarding garages must be attached with an enclosed breezeway that comment is incorrect underneath the Foxcroft architectural guidelines section H accessory structures and uses all its states as detached garages are prohibited unless connected to the primary structure with a breezeway well we're here we give variances from the Bloomfield Township zoning ordinance correct which I'm yeah I'm just commenting to that so that you understand that their comment was incorrect we're not we're not dealing with the deed restrictions and the variances right attached garage okay we had numerous meetings with the subdivision Association we met with David Webb and Robert Coltier on the site we also met with them on a team's call to present to them the renderings so that they can get a better visual of what we were building out there obviously we just verify the plans that were submitted to them are the plans that you see before you there is no bait and switch here that has taken place you know it's it's obvious that you know I know precedence doesn't take place but there has been other variances for dimensional setback requirements for detached garage within this area including the a municipal structure that's directly to the east of us, dating back to approximately 1999. However, I know you're not allowed to take that in consideration. I think that we've taken a look at every possible solution of how we can actually get a third parking space here. Instead of having cars parked in the driveway and visually out there at all times. And I hope that you can take in consideration that we do have some extreme challenges with the grade on this property. And that this is a double frontage lot. And we do have some extreme drop off. In regards to the comment on the driveway. This was brought up in our teams meeting with both the president and Robert. And if a driveway was to be installed, they would have to go before the association anyways to have that reviewed and approved of. So that will be going before them if that's the case in the future. But at this point in time, there is no intention to go ahead and put a driveway in attaching to this.

  86. taken place you know it's it's obvious that you know I know precedence doesn't take place but there has been other variances for dimensional setback requirements for detached garage within this area including the a municipal structure that's directly to the east of us, dating back to approximately 1999. However, I know you're not allowed to take that in consideration. I think that we've taken a look at every possible solution of how we can actually get a third parking space here. Instead of having cars parked in the driveway and visually out there at all times. And I hope that you can take in consideration that we do have some extreme challenges with the grade on this property. And that this is a double frontage lot. And we do have some extreme drop off. In regards to the comment on the driveway. This was brought up in our teams meeting with both the president and Robert. And if a driveway was to be installed, they would have to go before the association anyways to have that reviewed and approved of. So that will be going before them if that's the case in the future. But at this point in time, there is no intention to go ahead and put a driveway in attaching to this. And so the area in front of that, is that going to be grass? Right now it's shown as being grass. Yeah. So originally the lower area was for like lawn equipment so that they can get in. Right now to get into the rear yard, you're either entering in from the property to the east. Where you're cutting through the landscape buffer that's between the property line and Valley Forge. Any other questions from the board? We have questions from the board? Yeah. So on your... plan is that the property line that I see the dotted line that goes in the property line comes in and kicks back up again yeah so what how far away is the structure from the property line from the property line we're just over five feet away doesn't ever part of a variance so the complication here yeah the complication here is because this is a detached accessory structure in the eyes of the township we do not allow for detached accessory structures in a front yard the request before you is specific to allowing the variance request is to allow for detached accessory structure in a frontage we do not have a defined front yard setback for these because they are not permitted however you can certainly take under consideration if you feel that the six foot setback is acceptable or maybe you know obviously that can be under your

  87. But at this point in time, there is no intention to go ahead and put a driveway in attaching to this. And so the area in front of that, is that going to be grass? Right now it's shown as being grass. Yeah. So originally the lower area was for like lawn equipment so that they can get in. Right now to get into the rear yard, you're either entering in from the property to the east. Where you're cutting through the landscape buffer that's between the property line and Valley Forge. Any other questions from the board? We have questions from the board? Yeah. So on your... plan is that the property line that I see the dotted line that goes in the property line comes in and kicks back up again yeah so what how far away is the structure from the property line from the property line we're just over five feet away doesn't ever part of a variance so the complication here yeah the complication here is because this is a detached accessory structure in the eyes of the township we do not allow for detached accessory structures in a front yard the request before you is specific to allowing the variance request is to allow for detached accessory structure in a frontage we do not have a defined front yard setback for these because they are not permitted however you can certainly take under consideration if you feel that the six foot setback is acceptable or maybe you know obviously that can be under your consideration but they're not seeking a variance specific to a designated set is it one correct because the variance is due to the location yeah you did mention that you were 32 feet from the edge of this structure to the roadway that is correct based on what you said and then 58 to sandy just over 50 feet yeah let me get back to my document on that so one of the other things that one of the applications the people mentioned was the fact that this is three stories from the back correct even if this was single-story structure in this place it would require significant grading retention walls in the back we would have a three-story structure regardless let's say there's no second story on this so well there's no second story on those are just dormers on a gable roof there's not like a actual second floor other than for storage so there is going to be so is there going to be attic trusses put in this or is this going to be there will be added trusses in there so there will be storage up there that'll be for storage with the floor and all

  88. foot setback is acceptable or maybe you know obviously that can be under your consideration but they're not seeking a variance specific to a designated set is it one correct because the variance is due to the location yeah you did mention that you were 32 feet from the edge of this structure to the roadway that is correct based on what you said and then 58 to sandy just over 50 feet yeah let me get back to my document on that so one of the other things that one of the applications the people mentioned was the fact that this is three stories from the back correct even if this was single-story structure in this place it would require significant grading retention walls in the back we would have a three-story structure regardless let's say there's no second story on this so well there's no second story on those are just dormers on a gable roof there's not like a actual second floor other than for storage so there is going to be so is there going to be attic trusses put in this or is this going to be there will be added trusses in there so there will be storage up there that'll be for storage with the floor and all those things not necessarily finished off for livable space correct because you have to have an affidavit anyways that you can have livable space in it correct well no the affidavit is still for single-family affidavit just a single family they can have technically living space in the detached structure um no they're not there no they're not allowed to have a separate living space meaning like a bathroom and a kitchen but it could technically be finished but it cannot be a living space that's what you're saying it can be finished without all the amenities right if you didn't have a toilet to the shower or cooking or no I think they're gonna be yeah is there gonna be a stairwell there will be so that he connects just to put storage up there yes there a stairwell to the basement no is there a man door in the basement there's a man door from the lower grade into the lower accessory structure yes that's right yes okay so one thing i want to point out this house is a walkout the house itself is three stories plus correct you also have grade changes so i was going back to if yeah you if the

  89. so there will be storage up there that'll be for storage with the floor and all those things not necessarily finished off for livable space correct because you have to have an affidavit anyways that you can have livable space in it correct well no the affidavit is still for single-family affidavit just a single family they can have technically living space in the detached structure um no they're not there no they're not allowed to have a separate living space meaning like a bathroom and a kitchen but it could technically be finished but it cannot be a living space that's what you're saying it can be finished without all the amenities right if you didn't have a toilet to the shower or cooking or no I think they're gonna be yeah is there gonna be a stairwell there will be so that he connects just to put storage up there yes there a stairwell to the basement no is there a man door in the basement there's a man door from the lower grade into the lower accessory structure yes that's right yes okay so one thing i want to point out this house is a walkout the house itself is three stories plus correct you also have grade changes so i was going back to if yeah you if the applicant wanted to build a one story meaning that it does not have the dormers there's nothing in there we would still have 20 something feet on the back side of this correct either retaining wall that would need to be screened or some other aspect which it seems like they don't appreciate the look of that no matter what to accommodate the structure that is correct okay and then they were talking about engineering yes all plans are going to be reviewed by the township engineers the township building to meet or exceed all residential building codes that is correct we will follow the the latest residential building code um we will also have a structural engineer because some of these walls will be acting as retaining walls so we have to treat them that way so that we don't have any washout or any collapse of the driveway um approaching this driveway that's they're existing so again and all those things not only some some of the words where they want to be trust and verified that's where our building department correct department and our consultants so those things will be then verified by a third party to meet all or exceed all those standards yeah um and then do you guys have engineered flooring like how are you guys going to put this it will be a hollow core precast concrete plank with a topping coat so then you'll have a crane put those in that will be correct okay you you

  90. is three stories plus correct you also have grade changes so i was going back to if yeah you if the applicant wanted to build a one story meaning that it does not have the dormers there's nothing in there we would still have 20 something feet on the back side of this correct either retaining wall that would need to be screened or some other aspect which it seems like they don't appreciate the look of that no matter what to accommodate the structure that is correct okay and then they were talking about engineering yes all plans are going to be reviewed by the township engineers the township building to meet or exceed all residential building codes that is correct we will follow the the latest residential building code um we will also have a structural engineer because some of these walls will be acting as retaining walls so we have to treat them that way so that we don't have any washout or any collapse of the driveway um approaching this driveway that's they're existing so again and all those things not only some some of the words where they want to be trust and verified that's where our building department correct department and our consultants so those things will be then verified by a third party to meet all or exceed all those standards yeah um and then do you guys have engineered flooring like how are you guys going to put this it will be a hollow core precast concrete plank with a topping coat so then you'll have a crane put those in that will be correct okay you you and so the only access to that ground level storage is through the that door there's also a man door on the side okay so if you look at the plan there's a man door to the north um entering into that space there's like a little retaining wall that kind of goes around jim's pointing to it where the gentleman's walking in there and that that that lower level is right now the intent is purely for storage storage okay so on that you had said the property to the north which we show in the cut out here is not owned by your client it's township uh north of the property line is not owned by my client it's owned by the i think foxcroft so yeah i don't know we don't know who or uh rcoc maybe right away so because you're talking about one of the questions was about driveways i'm trying to figure out how you'd be able to put a driveway in based on grades you're talking about and if you have to go through improvements of somebody else we would have to go through permits with the township we would have to also uh submit again to the board to get approval to do that and if the driveway was to go in it would have to be going further east to even get into that location yeah i think that'd be very difficult yeah you actually have to get um road commission road commission that's even just yes is there a curb there no what there is is a grade of

  91. and so the only access to that ground level storage is through the that door there's also a man door on the side okay so if you look at the plan there's a man door to the north um entering into that space there's like a little retaining wall that kind of goes around jim's pointing to it where the gentleman's walking in there and that that that lower level is right now the intent is purely for storage storage okay so on that you had said the property to the north which we show in the cut out here is not owned by your client it's township uh north of the property line is not owned by my client it's owned by the i think foxcroft so yeah i don't know we don't know who or uh rcoc maybe right away so because you're talking about one of the questions was about driveways i'm trying to figure out how you'd be able to put a driveway in based on grades you're talking about and if you have to go through improvements of somebody else we would have to go through permits with the township we would have to also uh submit again to the board to get approval to do that and if the driveway was to go in it would have to be going further east to even get into that location yeah i think that'd be very difficult yeah you actually have to get um road commission road commission that's even just yes is there a curb there no what there is is a grade of dirt that a zero turn can go down to get in my backyard to cut which i've got to continue that access back there so they can cut the grass you know so that's really all it's back there and i'm not i don't anticipate paid putting a car ever there i have a 1965 mustang that is going to be stored in the upper level where it's going to be just a beautiful car that's my intention okay but that that was is probably about like for lawn equipment yeah correct down here yeah jim's planning on retire and taking over his own lawn so what is the interior dimension of the height of the the car garage yeah the the lower one nope the upper one we got we have we have uh seven foot overhead door or seven foot overhead door which matches the height of the overhead door on the principal structure and then we probably have maybe about a foot to a foot two above that to allow for the door mechanism to allow it to roll up and operate okay so there's not gonna be a lift in the garage no no no again trying to find more details because obviously the app the neighbors have said they wanted more details yeah jim requested a lift until i told him you know we have to design the floor to allow for the load per foot and he said forget that and he probably wouldn't have his second story correct at that point you would we would be

  92. commission road commission that's even just yes is there a curb there no what there is is a grade of dirt that a zero turn can go down to get in my backyard to cut which i've got to continue that access back there so they can cut the grass you know so that's really all it's back there and i'm not i don't anticipate paid putting a car ever there i have a 1965 mustang that is going to be stored in the upper level where it's going to be just a beautiful car that's my intention okay but that that was is probably about like for lawn equipment yeah correct down here yeah jim's planning on retire and taking over his own lawn so what is the interior dimension of the height of the the car garage yeah the the lower one nope the upper one we got we have we have uh seven foot overhead door or seven foot overhead door which matches the height of the overhead door on the principal structure and then we probably have maybe about a foot to a foot two above that to allow for the door mechanism to allow it to roll up and operate okay so there's not gonna be a lift in the garage no no no again trying to find more details because obviously the app the neighbors have said they wanted more details yeah jim requested a lift until i told him you know we have to design the floor to allow for the load per foot and he said forget that and he probably wouldn't have his second story correct at that point you would we would be even taller and that would that that's not good no not at all that's a little of a bigger ask yes okay so again so you're going to have engineered flooring you're going to have all finishes match the current that is correct all finishes uh shingles trim siding we have the same uh style cedar shake or cedar shake like uh siding in the gable ends which matches the gable ends of the existing house dormer side facing sandy lane are equal to or representative what's already on the existing house facing sandy lane and then as for the lab siding that matches existing house and then the house does have white brick on it the lower area will be as you can see in the renderings white brick as well it's not like we're coming and showing just cinder block they're exposed or porridge concrete exposed so I'll yield to some of my other members of the board I'm taking a lot of questions but something that I don't love five feet from the property line I understand it's unique but I understand that that's technically what not where you're here correct but you're still asking for permission to put it there correct so this is where the give-and-take part comes so the neighbors have talked about being able to see it yes so whether I be I'm a car guy and I

  93. forget that and he probably wouldn't have his second story correct at that point you would we would be even taller and that would that that's not good no not at all that's a little of a bigger ask yes okay so again so you're going to have engineered flooring you're going to have all finishes match the current that is correct all finishes uh shingles trim siding we have the same uh style cedar shake or cedar shake like uh siding in the gable ends which matches the gable ends of the existing house dormer side facing sandy lane are equal to or representative what's already on the existing house facing sandy lane and then as for the lab siding that matches existing house and then the house does have white brick on it the lower area will be as you can see in the renderings white brick as well it's not like we're coming and showing just cinder block they're exposed or porridge concrete exposed so I'll yield to some of my other members of the board I'm taking a lot of questions but something that I don't love five feet from the property line I understand it's unique but I understand that that's technically what not where you're here correct but you're still asking for permission to put it there correct so this is where the give-and-take part comes so the neighbors have talked about being able to see it yes so whether I be I'm a car guy and I love to look at this and this is cool other people do not so we have to take into account that yep so all of my other members here can ask you some questions I want you and your client to come up with some ideas of how we can screen this for those neighbors okay so one of the things bring up with that the neighboring property that's I think directly do east of us I want to say the actual finished floor elevation you want to put in this so I can see what you do you know if you in the photographs that we have with the site if we have something okay go back one more so if you take a look in the bottom left hand image you can see heavy vegetation trees and coverage back there that's continuous along the whole rear power property line the neighboring house so you that's behind if i'm not mistaken i don't have true topography and i didn't go look on google earth but just looking at from a street view their finished floor level is similar in height to what my client's finished floor level is which means they're looking into the canopy of the trees so if i was to screen the lower portion at the property line it wouldn't block anything considering their eye levels above the only way they're going to be able to see down is if they actually walk their property line down in that area to look in and there's already some evergreens that are there and planted there and growing there currently so i mean is it a matter of adding

  94. have talked about being able to see it yes so whether I be I'm a car guy and I love to look at this and this is cool other people do not so we have to take into account that yep so all of my other members here can ask you some questions I want you and your client to come up with some ideas of how we can screen this for those neighbors okay so one of the things bring up with that the neighboring property that's I think directly do east of us I want to say the actual finished floor elevation you want to put in this so I can see what you do you know if you in the photographs that we have with the site if we have something okay go back one more so if you take a look in the bottom left hand image you can see heavy vegetation trees and coverage back there that's continuous along the whole rear power property line the neighboring house so you that's behind if i'm not mistaken i don't have true topography and i didn't go look on google earth but just looking at from a street view their finished floor level is similar in height to what my client's finished floor level is which means they're looking into the canopy of the trees so if i was to screen the lower portion at the property line it wouldn't block anything considering their eye levels above the only way they're going to be able to see down is if they actually walk their property line down in that area to look in and there's already some evergreens that are there and planted there and growing there currently so i mean is it a matter of adding additional evergreens at that point um but you're talking to screen this entire structure are we looking on putting in 30 foot tall evergreens or arborvitaes i mean i'm saying this is where you get to help you and your client get to help work with it because you're asking a big ass to put this in now whether we call a side yard or the practical difficulty will be in that but we've heard from all of the direct neighbors and nobody's in favor of it right so it is hard for us to then say we're going to go against all the neighbors right but i understand we had the approval so that give and take right yep so i need to come up with a good plan for that tell what that's going to be and how did they get pictures that show where the visual is going to be if they weren't on your property were those pictures taken on your property those pictures were taken on our property we can't talk to you but you can say yes or no were you on your property when you took those pictures okay so I'm gonna leave with that they're gonna ask some other okay so you got to come up with something for me okay so I have a comment I think that it has to be screened somehow if that was a the front of the house with the garage door in it there's no need for screening it's the front of

  95. that are there and planted there and growing there currently so i mean is it a matter of adding additional evergreens at that point um but you're talking to screen this entire structure are we looking on putting in 30 foot tall evergreens or arborvitaes i mean i'm saying this is where you get to help you and your client get to help work with it because you're asking a big ass to put this in now whether we call a side yard or the practical difficulty will be in that but we've heard from all of the direct neighbors and nobody's in favor of it right so it is hard for us to then say we're going to go against all the neighbors right but i understand we had the approval so that give and take right yep so i need to come up with a good plan for that tell what that's going to be and how did they get pictures that show where the visual is going to be if they weren't on your property were those pictures taken on your property those pictures were taken on our property we can't talk to you but you can say yes or no were you on your property when you took those pictures okay so I'm gonna leave with that they're gonna ask some other okay so you got to come up with something for me okay so I have a comment I think that it has to be screened somehow if that was a the front of the house with the garage door in it there's no need for screening it's the front of the garage but if there's no driveway whether there's an overhead door there or or windows or anything you still have to have to be screened from the neighbors accessory structure they would have to be screened which some detached garages technically don't I believe our ordinance is that correct but the back of it's really not it's it's not going to be attached garage with a driveway is not a garage our ordinance doesn't differentiate between attached and detached I think historically in terms of practice has been that generally speaking these type of structures don't require screening because they meet the architectural materials of the house they're intended to mirror more of the design of the house so it's still an accessory structure so it still follows the accessory structure ordinance with the screening but historically again due to the nature of some of these detached garages in the architecture the board has sometimes waived okay strict screening I agree with you we need to do something yeah the front of the house is beautiful the back of the house doesn't necessarily meet the charm of the neighborhood and I feel it needs to be screened okay there's no driveway to that door so it's really not a it's an accessory structure from that and it's not a garage yeah and I'd agree with that I mean it

  96. the front of the house with the garage door in it there's no need for screening it's the front of the garage but if there's no driveway whether there's an overhead door there or or windows or anything you still have to have to be screened from the neighbors accessory structure they would have to be screened which some detached garages technically don't I believe our ordinance is that correct but the back of it's really not it's it's not going to be attached garage with a driveway is not a garage our ordinance doesn't differentiate between attached and detached I think historically in terms of practice has been that generally speaking these type of structures don't require screening because they meet the architectural materials of the house they're intended to mirror more of the design of the house so it's still an accessory structure so it still follows the accessory structure ordinance with the screening but historically again due to the nature of some of these detached garages in the architecture the board has sometimes waived okay strict screening I agree with you we need to do something yeah the front of the house is beautiful the back of the house doesn't necessarily meet the charm of the neighborhood and I feel it needs to be screened okay there's no driveway to that door so it's really not a it's an accessory structure from that and it's not a garage yeah and I'd agree with that I mean it the visual impact of it needs to be softened in some way and I think what you're saying is if if you know even if I understand what you're saying about you know the difference in grade but if you're looking at that that picture there that is a lot of structure that you're you're seeing that's very sort of what's that hard surface it's well it's right it's vertical hard surface that is unlike anything in that area right that's that's not and so if you're not you know you know if it's it's just your lawn equipment and I realize that may chop up your art it just we've got to think of some way to lessen the visual impact of that and I think that's what your point was Chris and that you're saying can I ask a question sure what would be wrong with a beautiful brick paper it's still I'm still seeing that structure it still has to be screened yeah so would you be opposed of running a screening like that yeah we're gonna figure out some type of screening if we've got to put pine trees there or something but what we have to commit to something before we give you approval yes yes so that's where you guys the top right yeah so what what I just what I

  97. the visual impact of it needs to be softened in some way and I think what you're saying is if if you know even if I understand what you're saying about you know the difference in grade but if you're looking at that that picture there that is a lot of structure that you're you're seeing that's very sort of what's that hard surface it's well it's right it's vertical hard surface that is unlike anything in that area right that's that's not and so if you're not you know you know if it's it's just your lawn equipment and I realize that may chop up your art it just we've got to think of some way to lessen the visual impact of that and I think that's what your point was Chris and that you're saying can I ask a question sure what would be wrong with a beautiful brick paper it's still I'm still seeing that structure it still has to be screened yeah so would you be opposed of running a screening like that yeah we're gonna figure out some type of screening if we've got to put pine trees there or something but what we have to commit to something before we give you approval yes yes so that's where you guys the top right yeah so what what I just what I just presented to Jim if you can pull up our landscape plan you obviously can't zoom in on that can you but I mean are you Do you understand our point? No, I understand your point. Yeah, no, no, we fully understand your point. And really appreciate that picture here. So I think it may have. So, I mean, placing screening at the property line really is not going to screen the structure. And we can agree upon that. Correct? So what I just showed the gym is maybe off of that northeast corner of the retaining wall, we can do a semi-arc of evergreens to actually screen the view of the lower level of the garage, but allow him to be able to access and get in and out of there. Because if you do that, then it looks like it's two stories as opposed to three. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to solve it. And at that point, we only need to worry about bringing in like 12-foot high evergreens or something like that to actually screen that. And it will screen the lower area in those doors from visual, from the view of the neighbors. We would be more than willing to help do that. So the way you're talking about it right there only helps me on the Valley Forge side. No, that helps on the east side.

  98. yes yes so that's where you guys the top right yeah so what what I just what I just presented to Jim if you can pull up our landscape plan you obviously can't zoom in on that can you but I mean are you Do you understand our point? No, I understand your point. Yeah, no, no, we fully understand your point. And really appreciate that picture here. So I think it may have. So, I mean, placing screening at the property line really is not going to screen the structure. And we can agree upon that. Correct? So what I just showed the gym is maybe off of that northeast corner of the retaining wall, we can do a semi-arc of evergreens to actually screen the view of the lower level of the garage, but allow him to be able to access and get in and out of there. Because if you do that, then it looks like it's two stories as opposed to three. That's what we're trying to do. We're trying to solve it. And at that point, we only need to worry about bringing in like 12-foot high evergreens or something like that to actually screen that. And it will screen the lower area in those doors from visual, from the view of the neighbors. We would be more than willing to help do that. So the way you're talking about it right there only helps me on the Valley Forge side. No, that helps on the east side. So that would come off that retaining wall and then loop up. Do you want to go point at the screen? I'm in love for this. I'm sorry. I wish you had a pointer that worked. I apologize. I like this. What'd you cut? It doesn't work on this kind of screen. So basically what we would do is come off of here and wrap around. Okay. So the Valley would screen any view this way, any view this way. These retaining walls is already coming up, screening the lower area from the home that's already on this side here. And there's trees planted on it. Yes. So again, we're going to be going from the south to the north in a semicircular pattern. Okay. Basically getting us to the bottom of the first floor. Correct. And then we do have new landscaping put in there. We do have some new landscaping places. So the landscaping on the north, how high is that going to be? Is that going to be similar 12-foot trees or a tapered? Well, there is already heavy landscaping. But if it's not a deciduous landscaping, it doesn't count. And landscaping that's not in your property doesn't count. So by planting on anything else doesn't count.

  99. No, that helps on the east side. So that would come off that retaining wall and then loop up. Do you want to go point at the screen? I'm in love for this. I'm sorry. I wish you had a pointer that worked. I apologize. I like this. What'd you cut? It doesn't work on this kind of screen. So basically what we would do is come off of here and wrap around. Okay. So the Valley would screen any view this way, any view this way. These retaining walls is already coming up, screening the lower area from the home that's already on this side here. And there's trees planted on it. Yes. So again, we're going to be going from the south to the north in a semicircular pattern. Okay. Basically getting us to the bottom of the first floor. Correct. And then we do have new landscaping put in there. We do have some new landscaping places. So the landscaping on the north, how high is that going to be? Is that going to be similar 12-foot trees or a tapered? Well, there is already heavy landscaping. But if it's not a deciduous landscaping, it doesn't count. And landscaping that's not in your property doesn't count. So by planting on anything else doesn't count. Let me read what it says over here. Perfect. I love it. Are you good with kind of where we're going now, Scott? Yeah, I think it softens it. Like I say, the front of it matches the architecture of the house. It's beautiful. The back, when I look at that photograph for that rendering, doesn't really fit. I keep thinking of like a lifeguard tower. It almost feels like it's something that you see on a beach. Yeah, so what we have going in right now is right adjacent to the building, that cluster of landscaping, they're bringing in 13 bloom meringue lilacs. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. have a dogwood that's being planted that is that larger tree that is just at the sort of northeast corner of the garage we have 11 dwarf fountain grass which is actually following the curvature of the actual driveway we have 19 millennium elums being planted which those are the little clusters around that rock that's there and then we also have the existing large trees that are along that north elevation so what were the ones that are directly north of the post structure

  100. So by planting on anything else doesn't count. Let me read what it says over here. Perfect. I love it. Are you good with kind of where we're going now, Scott? Yeah, I think it softens it. Like I say, the front of it matches the architecture of the house. It's beautiful. The back, when I look at that photograph for that rendering, doesn't really fit. I keep thinking of like a lifeguard tower. It almost feels like it's something that you see on a beach. Yeah, so what we have going in right now is right adjacent to the building, that cluster of landscaping, they're bringing in 13 bloom meringue lilacs. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. We do all sorts of things. have a dogwood that's being planted that is that larger tree that is just at the sort of northeast corner of the garage we have 11 dwarf fountain grass which is actually following the curvature of the actual driveway we have 19 millennium elums being planted which those are the little clusters around that rock that's there and then we also have the existing large trees that are along that north elevation so what were the ones that are directly north of the post structure that those are the lilacs okay so lilacs are not deciduous they're not year-round they're not deciduous they're not tall enough yep so we can change those out and go with a arb or an evergreen or something that is what what do we think again they should have a bottom they should be 12 feet because the um structure at the bottom where your uh clients walking path is will be at grade if we will so that'll need to match those height yep it needs to soften that side again we're going to do 12 the whole way yeah well it doesn't need to be 12 remember you're going up a slope it doesn't need to be right so they can be adjusted so they're it could or we could still keep it at 12 to soften a little bit or start at five and go to 12. you're not making a good face so yeah so why i i understand what you're what you're so again i'm trying soften it because kind of the whole um when people leave here and nobody's happy it means it's a good compromise so um just like the gentleman before did 12 feet around his entire property to make his deal go through right yep understood again yeah again like i said i mean putting it the

  101. along that north elevation so what were the ones that are directly north of the post structure that those are the lilacs okay so lilacs are not deciduous they're not year-round they're not deciduous they're not tall enough yep so we can change those out and go with a arb or an evergreen or something that is what what do we think again they should have a bottom they should be 12 feet because the um structure at the bottom where your uh clients walking path is will be at grade if we will so that'll need to match those height yep it needs to soften that side again we're going to do 12 the whole way yeah well it doesn't need to be 12 remember you're going up a slope it doesn't need to be right so they can be adjusted so they're it could or we could still keep it at 12 to soften a little bit or start at five and go to 12. you're not making a good face so yeah so why i i understand what you're what you're so again i'm trying soften it because kind of the whole um when people leave here and nobody's happy it means it's a good compromise so um just like the gentleman before did 12 feet around his entire property to make his deal go through right yep understood again yeah again like i said i mean putting it the property line i don't think it's going to do us any justice putting it adjacent to the building like i just pointed out up there with with an arc of 12 12 foot high evergreens i think that would work out um i don't know if you can pull up the photographs of the site again so now andrea how would we enforce that though what we need i would almost prefer that at this point the applicant we either were to draw something up i feel due to the sensitive nature of this um i think that having a actual landscape plan may provide a little more comfort level we can have this landscape plan revised to show that because we did provide a little bit better particularly because you've got you know people that yeah so what i what i want to point out at all they wanted more detail we have some more detail but this is extremely important because this is the my sense of it is that visual impact from that picture is why you're you're getting the comments that you're getting there's a lot of other things and there's like you know there's safe concerns with the road on but that visual impact is dramatic so so you got to soften it these are all existing evergreens full height that are on your property

  102. his deal go through right yep understood again yeah again like i said i mean putting it the property line i don't think it's going to do us any justice putting it adjacent to the building like i just pointed out up there with with an arc of 12 12 foot high evergreens i think that would work out um i don't know if you can pull up the photographs of the site again so now andrea how would we enforce that though what we need i would almost prefer that at this point the applicant we either were to draw something up i feel due to the sensitive nature of this um i think that having a actual landscape plan may provide a little more comfort level we can have this landscape plan revised to show that because we did provide a little bit better particularly because you've got you know people that yeah so what i what i want to point out at all they wanted more detail we have some more detail but this is extremely important because this is the my sense of it is that visual impact from that picture is why you're you're getting the comments that you're getting there's a lot of other things and there's like you know there's safe concerns with the road on but that visual impact is dramatic so so you got to soften it these are all existing evergreens full height that are on your property right so it's the same thing when we say somebody has a shed and they say my neighbor put in property on it is that neighbor could cut it down so so we're not none of those count I'm gonna yield to the board on this again I'm okay with the fact that we'll be planting all 12 foot evergreen whether it's at grade or at the base of grade the entire way but I do understand that how do I enforce it if we just say it out loud without a new landscape plan I'm struggling right now I'm sure I would like something formal I'm just I know so I wanted to express where my head is just right now I'm still really really struggling with it maybe with a formal landscape plan may help I definitely understand the practical difficulty I definitely understand that and I do understand that regardless of what kind of garage you were built it would have to be you know have that because of the topography but what it takes to make it palatable this is maybe challenging so I would I would like to see a formal landscape plan and we can

  103. right so it's the same thing when we say somebody has a shed and they say my neighbor put in property on it is that neighbor could cut it down so so we're not none of those count I'm gonna yield to the board on this again I'm okay with the fact that we'll be planting all 12 foot evergreen whether it's at grade or at the base of grade the entire way but I do understand that how do I enforce it if we just say it out loud without a new landscape plan I'm struggling right now I'm sure I would like something formal I'm just I know so I wanted to express where my head is just right now I'm still really really struggling with it maybe with a formal landscape plan may help I definitely understand the practical difficulty I definitely understand that and I do understand that regardless of what kind of garage you were built it would have to be you know have that because of the topography but what it takes to make it palatable this is maybe challenging so I would I would like to see a formal landscape plan and we can provide that when we go in for permit that's not an issue at all that the board and panel to review prior you need to you need to find a way to convince four people to let you wait do you need So if Ms. Joslyn here isn't on board, you need to make sure all four are comfortable with that. Understood. Joslyn, I understand you're struggling with this. I wish you could see pictures of a house when we bought it to what it is today. I think it's beautiful, don't get me wrong. It is. I think it's beautiful. And I don't think the awesomeness of this, it does look big. Because it's an image. I don't think it's that big. Now it might be tall, but it's not that big. That's all I can say. I want to make everyone happy. I don't want people to be unhappy with me because I'm a neighbor with a huge dog that runs around, okay? So we're going to do whatever it takes to make this right. And I love landscaping. My friend Gus is a genius at figuring this out. We'll have a beautiful plan back to you for permitting. I promise you. So I look at the drawing that was just presented. That arc's too far away from the building still. So it's questionable as to where those trees are planted. The closer to the building that you get, the more it screens it. Correct. So I don't know how to make a call on whether that's the plan or not.

  104. challenging so I would I would like to see a formal landscape plan and we can provide that when we go in for permit that's not an issue at all that the board and panel to review prior you need to you need to find a way to convince four people to let you wait do you need So if Ms. Joslyn here isn't on board, you need to make sure all four are comfortable with that. Understood. Joslyn, I understand you're struggling with this. I wish you could see pictures of a house when we bought it to what it is today. I think it's beautiful, don't get me wrong. It is. I think it's beautiful. And I don't think the awesomeness of this, it does look big. Because it's an image. I don't think it's that big. Now it might be tall, but it's not that big. That's all I can say. I want to make everyone happy. I don't want people to be unhappy with me because I'm a neighbor with a huge dog that runs around, okay? So we're going to do whatever it takes to make this right. And I love landscaping. My friend Gus is a genius at figuring this out. We'll have a beautiful plan back to you for permitting. I promise you. So I look at the drawing that was just presented. That arc's too far away from the building still. So it's questionable as to where those trees are planted. The closer to the building that you get, the more it screens it. Correct. So I don't know how to make a call on whether that's the plan or not. Well, again, we can provide an actual landscape plan to be reviewed by the planning. Well, I think the issue is the board is going to need that information in order to get to a comfort level. Okay. And if it's through permitting, then that takes it out of the board's hand. Got it. And so that leads it to our administrative approval. Yeah. So that I will defer to the board. Okay. Yeah, so my suggestion is that we table this until we have that landscape plan. I don't, I don't think. I feel comfortable voting. I don't feel comfortable voting. it. it without that i think scott you said the same thing so i don't we don't have we'll need that to get you the votes that you want so so i i think i think that's what you're going to have to do so i think directionally and conceptually you've got some feedback to work on with it and so so with the tabling is a tabling just being on the landscape plan while the other items can be approved or how do you want to we i am not going to make i cannot make the motion because i will not get a second to get it approved got it so i can make a motion that will table it so it doesn't cost you additional fees okay that gives you enough time to go with the landscape plan and then hopefully talk to the neighbors whether they like it or not i would hope or implore you to then show it to them they may not like it but then at least we're including them as part of it right they get to see it you have already

  105. So I don't know how to make a call on whether that's the plan or not. Well, again, we can provide an actual landscape plan to be reviewed by the planning. Well, I think the issue is the board is going to need that information in order to get to a comfort level. Okay. And if it's through permitting, then that takes it out of the board's hand. Got it. And so that leads it to our administrative approval. Yeah. So that I will defer to the board. Okay. Yeah, so my suggestion is that we table this until we have that landscape plan. I don't, I don't think. I feel comfortable voting. I don't feel comfortable voting. it. it without that i think scott you said the same thing so i don't we don't have we'll need that to get you the votes that you want so so i i think i think that's what you're going to have to do so i think directionally and conceptually you've got some feedback to work on with it and so so with the tabling is a tabling just being on the landscape plan while the other items can be approved or how do you want to we i am not going to make i cannot make the motion because i will not get a second to get it approved got it so i can make a motion that will table it so it doesn't cost you additional fees okay that gives you enough time to go with the landscape plan and then hopefully talk to the neighbors whether they like it or not i would hope or implore you to then show it to them they may not like it but then at least we're including them as part of it right they get to see it you have already done some beautiful renderings and things they can then see that and hopefully that can soften it and and i do you know i i sense that so we had this issue with uh with the uh retaining walls and you know trust and there's going to be a driveway so i think maybe maybe some dialogue might uh mend some of those uh feelings too so maybe they won't but i i think that that would be helpful for you as well now we we felt that that was the case when we had the meetings with the association board and the architectural review committee so and they felt comfortable with it so that's why i thought that was already handled and taken care of okay well you can kind of kind of see understood no i can understand no okay again i mean i think you know dusting revise this And we can resubmit the plan. Okay. In the meantime, while it's waiting to go before the board again, we can have my client meet with the residents and show them what the landscape plan is going to look like. And we can throw in some evergreens within the rendering. Yeah, I think that would help, too. Again, it would help the board also. Yeah, you wouldn't see any of the thing on the bottom. I mean, you just see everything above the bottom. And it's such a stark color, too. I think that's, I mean, I know it matches, but it...

  106. like it but then at least we're including them as part of it right they get to see it you have already done some beautiful renderings and things they can then see that and hopefully that can soften it and and i do you know i i sense that so we had this issue with uh with the uh retaining walls and you know trust and there's going to be a driveway so i think maybe maybe some dialogue might uh mend some of those uh feelings too so maybe they won't but i i think that that would be helpful for you as well now we we felt that that was the case when we had the meetings with the association board and the architectural review committee so and they felt comfortable with it so that's why i thought that was already handled and taken care of okay well you can kind of kind of see understood no i can understand no okay again i mean i think you know dusting revise this And we can resubmit the plan. Okay. In the meantime, while it's waiting to go before the board again, we can have my client meet with the residents and show them what the landscape plan is going to look like. And we can throw in some evergreens within the rendering. Yeah, I think that would help, too. Again, it would help the board also. Yeah, you wouldn't see any of the thing on the bottom. I mean, you just see everything above the bottom. And it's such a stark color, too. I think that's, I mean, I know it matches, but it... I think that would help get this across the finish line. Yes. So you have our direction. We're not saying no. So I would like to make a motion that we table item number nine and we'll let them come back to us. Support. Do we know when the cutoff date is for resubmission? We have about, we have less than two weeks before we have to notice for the February meeting. Okay. So it's going to depend on, I can't promise you that because it's going to depend on you making the accommodations that the board's asking for. But I will tell you that there's about, you said it was... About 14 or so. We have about 14 days before we have to get our notices out. And we're not going to send out a notice until we've got that landscape plan and you've had that meeting with it. So I would encourage their cooperative, you know, occurrence. So keep us posted. But we do have a noticing deadline for the February meeting. If we don't get it by then, then it would have to go to the March meeting. Okay. And maybe even on your way out, you could set something up and, you know... Yeah. You could... Because it seems like you've got the information to get the plan, get going as soon as you can. So do you want to make the motion? Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to table item number nine and give the applicant more time to come up with a better landscape plan based on the feedback presented from the board.

  107. I think that's, I mean, I know it matches, but it... I think that would help get this across the finish line. Yes. So you have our direction. We're not saying no. So I would like to make a motion that we table item number nine and we'll let them come back to us. Support. Do we know when the cutoff date is for resubmission? We have about, we have less than two weeks before we have to notice for the February meeting. Okay. So it's going to depend on, I can't promise you that because it's going to depend on you making the accommodations that the board's asking for. But I will tell you that there's about, you said it was... About 14 or so. We have about 14 days before we have to get our notices out. And we're not going to send out a notice until we've got that landscape plan and you've had that meeting with it. So I would encourage their cooperative, you know, occurrence. So keep us posted. But we do have a noticing deadline for the February meeting. If we don't get it by then, then it would have to go to the March meeting. Okay. And maybe even on your way out, you could set something up and, you know... Yeah. You could... Because it seems like you've got the information to get the plan, get going as soon as you can. So do you want to make the motion? Yeah, I'd like to make a motion to table item number nine and give the applicant more time to come up with a better landscape plan based on the feedback presented from the board. Support. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? You've got your direction. Thank you. Do you want your thing back, sir? Thank you. Very cool. Thank you. So let's call the next item, item 10, 3278 Barron. Is the applicant ready for item 10, 3278 Barron? Mr. Chairman? Yes. I'd be willing to make a motion to move this to the end of this evening's agenda. So we have a motion to move it to the end of the agenda. Support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. And opposed? Item 10 is to the end. Item 11, 5980 Braymore. Good evening, board. My name is Eric McClellan. I am the owner of the property at 5980 Braymore Road. We are requesting permission approval. And...

  108. Support. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? You've got your direction. Thank you. Do you want your thing back, sir? Thank you. Very cool. Thank you. So let's call the next item, item 10, 3278 Barron. Is the applicant ready for item 10, 3278 Barron? Mr. Chairman? Yes. I'd be willing to make a motion to move this to the end of this evening's agenda. So we have a motion to move it to the end of the agenda. Support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. And opposed? Item 10 is to the end. Item 11, 5980 Braymore. Good evening, board. My name is Eric McClellan. I am the owner of the property at 5980 Braymore Road. We are requesting permission approval. And... a dimensional variance for a sauna that we built in good faith on our property not realizing we needed a permit um we put it in our side yard uh because we did while we didn't realize we needed a permit we did have the common sense to know that we couldn't place it over our septic or drain field and so it is in the very as close to the backyard as we could possibly make it's a freestanding structure it's approximately seven by seven feet it was a kit that we assembled we built a a small pad with pavers and we have a plan to include screening with eight foot blue point junipers along the back the braymore roadside to screen it completely we live in a heavily wooded lot it is up on the top of the hill we've done everything we can to make it blend in with the the property uh especially with the details of the house uh we painted it the same color as the house it is a dark color it is barely visible from the road uh i haven't had any feedback from the neighborhood other than the dog walkers who say wow that looks cool where can we get one and when

  109. a dimensional variance for a sauna that we built in good faith on our property not realizing we needed a permit um we put it in our side yard uh because we did while we didn't realize we needed a permit we did have the common sense to know that we couldn't place it over our septic or drain field and so it is in the very as close to the backyard as we could possibly make it's a freestanding structure it's approximately seven by seven feet it was a kit that we assembled we built a a small pad with pavers and we have a plan to include screening with eight foot blue point junipers along the back the braymore roadside to screen it completely we live in a heavily wooded lot it is up on the top of the hill we've done everything we can to make it blend in with the the property uh especially with the details of the house uh we painted it the same color as the house it is a dark color it is barely visible from the road uh i haven't had any feedback from the neighborhood other than the dog walkers who say wow that looks cool where can we get one and when do we get an invitation to come use the sauna um i think that is all the information i have that and i know that you have the information as well uh so i'm open to any questions so Thank you. do we have any questions from the board I'm gonna wait okay I'll open this to the public and I'd like to come up and speak so my name is David Daley I'm the adjacent neighbor I live on 6000 Bramwell Road so I face at least the structure that you're seeing on the screen from my property so I can see this from my living room I can see it from my driveway I can see from all bedrooms in my house and also where the sound are sitting what you're not seeing from this picture is that on that lot as well as seen from our property this sits the highest point of the ground and so it is very visible from where we live I moved to this property in 2017 was very drawn to the wooded surrounding of the house the lack of structures or extra buildings or you know fences enclosing the house

  110. the neighborhood other than the dog walkers who say wow that looks cool where can we get one and when do we get an invitation to come use the sauna um i think that is all the information i have that and i know that you have the information as well uh so i'm open to any questions so Thank you. do we have any questions from the board I'm gonna wait okay I'll open this to the public and I'd like to come up and speak so my name is David Daley I'm the adjacent neighbor I live on 6000 Bramwell Road so I face at least the structure that you're seeing on the screen from my property so I can see this from my living room I can see it from my driveway I can see from all bedrooms in my house and also where the sound are sitting what you're not seeing from this picture is that on that lot as well as seen from our property this sits the highest point of the ground and so it is very visible from where we live I moved to this property in 2017 was very drawn to the wooded surrounding of the house the lack of structures or extra buildings or you know fences enclosing the house and so you know as of now I do have to say that my home experience has been impacted by this and I did hear that you know from the homeowner that the sauna is not really visible from Braymore but it is visible when you walk on the street it is visible and I also have one more concern I want to communicate so this is a second structure that was erected within within 12 months of in the area there is also an open air enclosure containing a vegetable garden which is encroaching our property line it is built right i i didn't have time to measure this i basically received a notice on the 23rd of last month and so i didn't you know get to do a survey or any you know measurement but on the on my you know side yard on the halfway of the useful part of my side yard right outside you know of my property line there's an enclosure standing as well so i am concerned that um i give this is an indication of additional structures that are continue that are going to

  111. the lack of structures or extra buildings or you know fences enclosing the house and so you know as of now I do have to say that my home experience has been impacted by this and I did hear that you know from the homeowner that the sauna is not really visible from Braymore but it is visible when you walk on the street it is visible and I also have one more concern I want to communicate so this is a second structure that was erected within within 12 months of in the area there is also an open air enclosure containing a vegetable garden which is encroaching our property line it is built right i i didn't have time to measure this i basically received a notice on the 23rd of last month and so i didn't you know get to do a survey or any you know measurement but on the on my you know side yard on the halfway of the useful part of my side yard right outside you know of my property line there's an enclosure standing as well so i am concerned that um i give this is an indication of additional structures that are continue that are going to continue to build that are obstructing uh the the beauty you know of my property uh and also these structures are sitting closer to my property uh than the other houses to these structures so yeah it is impacting us so just wanted to communicate that thank you so anyone else would like to speak on this item so i'll uh close the public hearing did you want to ask any questions before we had the applicant respond or so why don't you can you want you want to respond to the public comments yeah the the structure is 30 feet from the lot line um and we do have plans to completely screen it if we need to put the same kind of planting on the you're gonna have to sign it well yeah you're gonna have to screen it we're gonna have to screen it so we'll we'll do that that's okay yeah so I've driven by this I can see it mm-hmm I know it's there I can understand his perspective his home sits a little bit higher than yours and again while your lot is very treed it's not always deciduous trees right so you point out some evergreen trees like we

  112. that um i give this is an indication of additional structures that are continue that are going to continue to build that are obstructing uh the the beauty you know of my property uh and also these structures are sitting closer to my property uh than the other houses to these structures so yeah it is impacting us so just wanted to communicate that thank you so anyone else would like to speak on this item so i'll uh close the public hearing did you want to ask any questions before we had the applicant respond or so why don't you can you want you want to respond to the public comments yeah the the structure is 30 feet from the lot line um and we do have plans to completely screen it if we need to put the same kind of planting on the you're gonna have to sign it well yeah you're gonna have to screen it we're gonna have to screen it so we'll we'll do that that's okay yeah so I've driven by this I can see it mm-hmm I know it's there I can understand his perspective his home sits a little bit higher than yours and again while your lot is very treed it's not always deciduous trees right so you point out some evergreen trees like we said everybody else those evergreens aren't on your property right so just because he has never green planting in his property that may obstruct it it doesn't count but so three junipers are not gonna do it so like I saw yours and I'm like okay I understand that you have that engineered septic or that's have to go on the back and it takes up the whole backyard so you are asking not only to put this in your side yard we're asking for forgiveness mm-hmm so we ask for those things we need more in return right yes so it's not just the front yard that I'm gonna be treating on it is the side in the back because technically depending on who your backyard neighbor is they could be a possibly see from their property okay this cannot be visible from any other neighbors property fun so that again plantings must be eight feet or greater just our structure and then it can't be separated so that you know they'll grow into it has to be completely visual understood makes sense yes that way your neighbor who is is is is is happen to see this will not be able to see if many part of this property fantastic very clear on that very clear okay and then for the ordinance if there is an accessory structure like a garden of those things or ordinance officer would determine if it's appropriate or not right that's correct we um i don't have any notification i know our ordinance

  113. not always deciduous trees right so you point out some evergreen trees like we said everybody else those evergreens aren't on your property right so just because he has never green planting in his property that may obstruct it it doesn't count but so three junipers are not gonna do it so like I saw yours and I'm like okay I understand that you have that engineered septic or that's have to go on the back and it takes up the whole backyard so you are asking not only to put this in your side yard we're asking for forgiveness mm-hmm so we ask for those things we need more in return right yes so it's not just the front yard that I'm gonna be treating on it is the side in the back because technically depending on who your backyard neighbor is they could be a possibly see from their property okay this cannot be visible from any other neighbors property fun so that again plantings must be eight feet or greater just our structure and then it can't be separated so that you know they'll grow into it has to be completely visual understood makes sense yes that way your neighbor who is is is is is happen to see this will not be able to see if many part of this property fantastic very clear on that very clear okay and then for the ordinance if there is an accessory structure like a garden of those things or ordinance officer would determine if it's appropriate or not right that's correct we um i don't have any notification i know our ordinance um has been made aware of the existing structure um if there's some sort of additional garden structure out there we would have made a determination of whether or not they come before the board so i guess i'll double check with my lead ordinance officer but we generally don't regulate uh vegetable gardens correct so i guess but we can we can certainly double check and make sure that there's nothing that would require zda approval so um just closing the loop so if it's not then nothing we can do if it is then let's come back and adjust it then okay i have no further questions uh are we ready for a motion then sure as long as we have four okay so for the variant for the permission request in regards to the appeal at 5980 braymore road for the accessory structure that's already installed i move the request be approved as amended based information presented the implicate did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structure appropriate to the neighborhood as people have saunas or spas or those type of things in their yard for my dimensional variance

  114. appropriate or not right that's correct we um i don't have any notification i know our ordinance um has been made aware of the existing structure um if there's some sort of additional garden structure out there we would have made a determination of whether or not they come before the board so i guess i'll double check with my lead ordinance officer but we generally don't regulate uh vegetable gardens correct so i guess but we can we can certainly double check and make sure that there's nothing that would require zda approval so um just closing the loop so if it's not then nothing we can do if it is then let's come back and adjust it then okay i have no further questions uh are we ready for a motion then sure as long as we have four okay so for the variant for the permission request in regards to the appeal at 5980 braymore road for the accessory structure that's already installed i move the request be approved as amended based information presented the implicate did demonstrate compliance for section 42-76 standards because the use of accessory structure appropriate to the neighborhood as people have saunas or spas or those type of things in their yard for my dimensional variance because this sauna is located in the side yard and not the rear yard. In regards to the appeal at, again, 5980 Bramwell Road for the side yard variance, I move the variance to be approved as requested based on information presented. The applicant did demonstrate standards for all practical difficulty because compliance restricted level of the ordinance to be on this due to put in the sun because if you put it in the back, you can't put it over a septic field, which would then get it closer to one of the property lines, which would then require another variance. So you're still 30 feet away from the property line. There's no justice to the joint in labor by the reason of we were putting in screening, which I'm going to outline very clearly. And then the unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact of unique topography and your engineer's septic field or a septic field that is very large to that backyard. And this is not self-created because of the fact that I believe that septic field was installed prior to you being there. So with that, if this motion is approved, all application permits must be made within five business days. It says five business days. And then additional evergreen screenings will be required. Those evergreen screenings must be at least eight feet in height on the brain more side, 6,000 brain more side, and then making sure that your neighbor at 59,950 and then 59,650 cannot see it.

  115. because this sauna is located in the side yard and not the rear yard. In regards to the appeal at, again, 5980 Bramwell Road for the side yard variance, I move the variance to be approved as requested based on information presented. The applicant did demonstrate standards for all practical difficulty because compliance restricted level of the ordinance to be on this due to put in the sun because if you put it in the back, you can't put it over a septic field, which would then get it closer to one of the property lines, which would then require another variance. So you're still 30 feet away from the property line. There's no justice to the joint in labor by the reason of we were putting in screening, which I'm going to outline very clearly. And then the unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact of unique topography and your engineer's septic field or a septic field that is very large to that backyard. And this is not self-created because of the fact that I believe that septic field was installed prior to you being there. So with that, if this motion is approved, all application permits must be made within five business days. It says five business days. And then additional evergreen screenings will be required. Those evergreen screenings must be at least eight feet in height on the brain more side, 6,000 brain more side, and then making sure that your neighbor at 59,950 and then 59,650 cannot see it. So you have to go past the structures they can't see it and that there's no peekaboo. So you have to stagger them, whatever it is. That way you can continue to enjoy your sauna and your neighbors can continue to enjoy the peace that they have. Wonderful. Support. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. One question. So the permits, that's the permit for the structure and the electrical permits that we'll need to run power to it. Come on down to our department. We'll be more than happy to help you. It's just because it's an existing structure, we have a limited time from the five days. Fantastic. So you'll have to do both. Same thing that I gave to the other person to make sure that we have the ability for those trees to be planted and for you to procure the right trees. I'm going to give you until May 1st in order to plant those. But prior to May 1st, those better be planted. Fantastic. Fair? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is modified as granted. Thank you. Calling item 1230, South Berkshire. Boy, it's too bad the students didn't stay for the whole meeting. They would have learned so much. Yeah. They missed the best part.

  116. and then making sure that your neighbor at 59,950 and then 59,650 cannot see it. So you have to go past the structures they can't see it and that there's no peekaboo. So you have to stagger them, whatever it is. That way you can continue to enjoy your sauna and your neighbors can continue to enjoy the peace that they have. Wonderful. Support. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. One question. So the permits, that's the permit for the structure and the electrical permits that we'll need to run power to it. Come on down to our department. We'll be more than happy to help you. It's just because it's an existing structure, we have a limited time from the five days. Fantastic. So you'll have to do both. Same thing that I gave to the other person to make sure that we have the ability for those trees to be planted and for you to procure the right trees. I'm going to give you until May 1st in order to plant those. But prior to May 1st, those better be planted. Fantastic. Fair? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is modified as granted. Thank you. Calling item 1230, South Berkshire. Boy, it's too bad the students didn't stay for the whole meeting. They would have learned so much. Yeah. They missed the best part. Hi. I'm Christopher Johnson representing the Sigmunds at 30 South Berkshire Drive and hoping to get their dimensional variance for the repair and stabilization of an existing non-conforming barn. Ian and Cole purchased their home at 43575, just to the north of this property on Woodward in 2018, and have taken and have since taken great care to thoughtfully update and restore. Because I wouldn't want my behavior here in the end. That is going to beregations on the website. I don't know. the 100-year-old structure. In early 2025, they purchased the adjacent parcel at 30 South Berkshire as a way to preserve and enjoy the existing landscape and to create a space for a small personal garden that complements the residential character of the property. The property includes a small existing barn structure that has fallen into disrepair. And their intent is to simply stabilize and repair it so it remains safe, functional, and consistent with the character of the site and the residents adjacent to it. The barn sits within all principal setbacks and has a certain historic charm to it that feels a little more than kind of an accessory building. So I think we're going to take great pains in trying to restore it thoughtfully.

  117. Hi. I'm Christopher Johnson representing the Sigmunds at 30 South Berkshire Drive and hoping to get their dimensional variance for the repair and stabilization of an existing non-conforming barn. Ian and Cole purchased their home at 43575, just to the north of this property on Woodward in 2018, and have taken and have since taken great care to thoughtfully update and restore. Because I wouldn't want my behavior here in the end. That is going to beregations on the website. I don't know. the 100-year-old structure. In early 2025, they purchased the adjacent parcel at 30 South Berkshire as a way to preserve and enjoy the existing landscape and to create a space for a small personal garden that complements the residential character of the property. The property includes a small existing barn structure that has fallen into disrepair. And their intent is to simply stabilize and repair it so it remains safe, functional, and consistent with the character of the site and the residents adjacent to it. The barn sits within all principal setbacks and has a certain historic charm to it that feels a little more than kind of an accessory building. So I think we're going to take great pains in trying to restore it thoughtfully. And the Sigmunds are looking to make the necessary repairs and utilize the barn as a space for storage of gardening tools and Kohl's photography and art equipment. We do have letters in support from some of the neighbors and have not heard any opposition yet. Any questions from the board? So I love barns. My house is 105 years old and there's actually a barn that we use because we don't have a basement. there's 22 foot high middle ceilings slant and we got two basketball nets up that my you know kids played basketball and so that's that's nice that you want to do that I'll open this to the public anyone want to comment on this close the public hearing and bring it back for a discussion I'll make a discussion in the motion if you'd like unless you want to Jonathan oh I don't have it I don't have any questions okay yeah I go by today I think it's a great use they've already updated the house very well it's a beautiful home some nice character up

  118. So I think we're going to take great pains in trying to restore it thoughtfully. And the Sigmunds are looking to make the necessary repairs and utilize the barn as a space for storage of gardening tools and Kohl's photography and art equipment. We do have letters in support from some of the neighbors and have not heard any opposition yet. Any questions from the board? So I love barns. My house is 105 years old and there's actually a barn that we use because we don't have a basement. there's 22 foot high middle ceilings slant and we got two basketball nets up that my you know kids played basketball and so that's that's nice that you want to do that I'll open this to the public anyone want to comment on this close the public hearing and bring it back for a discussion I'll make a discussion in the motion if you'd like unless you want to Jonathan oh I don't have it I don't have any questions okay yeah I go by today I think it's a great use they've already updated the house very well it's a beautiful home some nice character up in that northern area of our township so with that I would like to make a motion for the permission request in regards to the appeal at 30 South Berkshire Road for the accessory structure I move the request be approved estimate the basic information presented they did demonstrate compliance of section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure to focus the neighborhood for it's been there for a long time and all we're doing is trying to update it to the current standards and match the aesthetics of what we've already done with that nice home over there for the second for the dimensional variance required because it is in dual frontages and it's only permitted in your rear yard I move the variance at 30 South Berkshire Road be approved at the move I move the variance be approved as requested based on memory information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance be unduly burdensome because we've been knocking the structure down in order to try to build something else which would still require type of variances because it's in the both yards there's no justice to your joining neighbors by the reason of it's already been there and all we're gonna do is make it better than it was a unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated because again this is already here we're making it better and I understand that it is a accessory structure without a permanent residence as well so but again

  119. updated the house very well it's a beautiful home some nice character up in that northern area of our township so with that I would like to make a motion for the permission request in regards to the appeal at 30 South Berkshire Road for the accessory structure I move the request be approved estimate the basic information presented they did demonstrate compliance of section 42-76 standards because the use of this accessory structure to focus the neighborhood for it's been there for a long time and all we're doing is trying to update it to the current standards and match the aesthetics of what we've already done with that nice home over there for the second for the dimensional variance required because it is in dual frontages and it's only permitted in your rear yard I move the variance at 30 South Berkshire Road be approved at the move I move the variance be approved as requested based on memory information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance be unduly burdensome because we've been knocking the structure down in order to try to build something else which would still require type of variances because it's in the both yards there's no justice to your joining neighbors by the reason of it's already been there and all we're gonna do is make it better than it was a unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated because again this is already here we're making it better and I understand that it is a accessory structure without a permanent residence as well so but again it's unique to the property that's how you bought it and then this is not self-credit because again you guys bought it this way if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be made within one year for your bond restoration and all permits must be obtained prior to construction I'm not going to report any type of additional evidence training there isn't any now and again is the next area structure especially with a garage I think it's important so I motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted keep good luck calling the next item item 13 1383 Club Drive good evening my name is Richard Pfeiffer and I live at 1383 Club Drive and my request involves putting boulders along my lakefront which has been eroding

  120. it is a accessory structure without a permanent residence as well so but again it's unique to the property that's how you bought it and then this is not self-credit because again you guys bought it this way if this motion is approved all necessary permits must be made within one year for your bond restoration and all permits must be obtained prior to construction I'm not going to report any type of additional evidence training there isn't any now and again is the next area structure especially with a garage I think it's important so I motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted keep good luck calling the next item item 13 1383 Club Drive good evening my name is Richard Pfeiffer and I live at 1383 Club Drive and my request involves putting boulders along my lakefront which has been eroding over the last few years. I've lived there 50 years. You're probably wondering why now, after being there 50 years. I had a large cottonwood tree on the lakefront that I lost in a storm three or four years ago. And I've been experiencing the erosion since then. And I don't know if that's the reason for it or whatever, but it's become more and more of a problem. So I feel I need to do something about it. And that seems to be the best way to deal with it. So I'm here tonight to try to get your approval to put in those boulders to stop that erosion. Any questions from the board? Open this to the public. There's a comment. Close the public hearing. Bring it back.

  121. over the last few years. I've lived there 50 years. You're probably wondering why now, after being there 50 years. I had a large cottonwood tree on the lakefront that I lost in a storm three or four years ago. And I've been experiencing the erosion since then. And I don't know if that's the reason for it or whatever, but it's become more and more of a problem. So I feel I need to do something about it. And that seems to be the best way to deal with it. So I'm here tonight to try to get your approval to put in those boulders to stop that erosion. Any questions from the board? Open this to the public. There's a comment. Close the public hearing. Bring it back. Well, I'll make a motion. No, any questions? I think we're good. I guess just popped through my head was the boulders, are they okay for the natural features? But I would assume that they get approval for the type. of granite did you are you I'm sorry you want to speak on behalf of there's an Eagle permit required yeah we did submit an application for the plan review with Eagle they haven't gotten to us yet but just following the other properties around that this isn't a unique feature that you know other people have different types of seawalls we're doing something that's very low impact as far as visually and also not you know there's quite a slope going down you won't really even see much of this boulder wall from it's going to be really close to the water level okay actually yeah yeah because we will be they will be required to respond about their Eagle before we would issue them a permit well they

  122. Well, I'll make a motion. No, any questions? I think we're good. I guess just popped through my head was the boulders, are they okay for the natural features? But I would assume that they get approval for the type. of granite did you are you I'm sorry you want to speak on behalf of there's an Eagle permit required yeah we did submit an application for the plan review with Eagle they haven't gotten to us yet but just following the other properties around that this isn't a unique feature that you know other people have different types of seawalls we're doing something that's very low impact as far as visually and also not you know there's quite a slope going down you won't really even see much of this boulder wall from it's going to be really close to the water level okay actually yeah yeah because we will be they will be required to respond about their Eagle before we would issue them a permit well they don't get the Eagle permit doesn't matter what we say yeah so yeah so they do kind of go so when you say required for all necessary permits yeah okay that makes sense but we put that as a condition but if they don't get the Eagle permit they can't program they can't do it okay well then I'll make a motion in regards to the appeal at 1383 Club Drive dimensional variance for the Oh, encroaching into the natural feature setback. I move that the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standard for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without impacting the natural features and putting up that border, he would have continued erosion. There's no injustice to adjourning neighbors because, again, this is going to be on his property. It will not be very visible. Unique circumstances of the property because it has lake frontage and there is times even 50 years later that you have to protect it from further erosion and because of that it is not self-created. Support. If approved, the motion includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within

  123. to respond about their Eagle before we would issue them a permit well they don't get the Eagle permit doesn't matter what we say yeah so yeah so they do kind of go so when you say required for all necessary permits yeah okay that makes sense but we put that as a condition but if they don't get the Eagle permit they can't program they can't do it okay well then I'll make a motion in regards to the appeal at 1383 Club Drive dimensional variance for the Oh, encroaching into the natural feature setback. I move that the variance be approved as requested based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all standard for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because without impacting the natural features and putting up that border, he would have continued erosion. There's no injustice to adjourning neighbors because, again, this is going to be on his property. It will not be very visible. Unique circumstances of the property because it has lake frontage and there is times even 50 years later that you have to protect it from further erosion and because of that it is not self-created. Support. If approved, the motion includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the shoreline erosion control project and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And I'll also add into the motion that, of course, you're going to continue to get your ego permit and that it will be contingent on that. Now support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is going granted. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Calling item 14, 3855 Court Road. Okay. Matt Moser again, representing the homeowners at 3855 Court Road. We have a number. This is a really unique, in my opinion. Hey, captain. Very cool project. We have a number of different variances based on various hardships that we have. To give you guys some context, my clients are a younger couple. They moved in six or seven years ago and have four kids under the age of seven. So the kids are bugging mom and dad for everything the kids want, pools and all that. So we initially started by looking at the rear of the house behind the garage. So we were going to remove the garage doors and look at doing a pool back behind the house.

  124. If approved, the motion includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year for the shoreline erosion control project and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. And I'll also add into the motion that, of course, you're going to continue to get your ego permit and that it will be contingent on that. Now support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is going granted. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Calling item 14, 3855 Court Road. Okay. Matt Moser again, representing the homeowners at 3855 Court Road. We have a number. This is a really unique, in my opinion. Hey, captain. Very cool project. We have a number of different variances based on various hardships that we have. To give you guys some context, my clients are a younger couple. They moved in six or seven years ago and have four kids under the age of seven. So the kids are bugging mom and dad for everything the kids want, pools and all that. So we initially started by looking at the rear of the house behind the garage. So we were going to remove the garage doors and look at doing a pool back behind the house. Upon getting a survey, we ran into the fact that the largest county drain runs right through the back of their driveway. And basically the easement is most of the backyard. So that eliminated all of the backyard options as the easement goes right through the middle of their whole backyard. Fortunately, they have quite a large property and it's in unique shape in that it's a pie. And in that pie, there is a neighbor's driveway that flows to the west of where you see our improvements. And that has a dedicated easement. So we were contending with that as well. So with exploring all of these different items that we were dealing with, we came up with what I think is a fairly nice plan that should be a good example of what you could do with one of the older homes. and not only is this part of the renovations I'm talking about but they're going to be redoing their home as well though to really add some dimension and context to it so I'm going to start from east and go west I think that's the easiest way to do this do we can we put those renderings on I think those give

  125. So we were going to remove the garage doors and look at doing a pool back behind the house. Upon getting a survey, we ran into the fact that the largest county drain runs right through the back of their driveway. And basically the easement is most of the backyard. So that eliminated all of the backyard options as the easement goes right through the middle of their whole backyard. Fortunately, they have quite a large property and it's in unique shape in that it's a pie. And in that pie, there is a neighbor's driveway that flows to the west of where you see our improvements. And that has a dedicated easement. So we were contending with that as well. So with exploring all of these different items that we were dealing with, we came up with what I think is a fairly nice plan that should be a good example of what you could do with one of the older homes. and not only is this part of the renovations I'm talking about but they're going to be redoing their home as well though to really add some dimension and context to it so I'm going to start from east and go west I think that's the easiest way to do this do we can we put those renderings on I think those give you a really nice perspective color renderings yeah okay so a little hard to see but in the this is the proposed additions so in the very top right corner I don't know if you guys can see it on your screens or not but can we zoom in at all that right corner sorry to make you do all that work that top right corner just so we can kind of see that front porch okay so similar to case number one tonight pretty common nowadays is we're proposing just a nice simple front porch to give the house some front dimension this porch basically just covers the existing front steps so it does encroach into the setback but there's a couple things that are unique this particular house sits almost 80 feet from the road so even though we're encroaching in the setback with that front porch we're still significantly further from the road from many of the houses that would be within the 40-foot traditional setback as we move to the west you can't see it in this picture because it's screened and I think one of the points about the screening in this is that we are proposing structures we

  126. easiest way to do this do we can we put those renderings on I think those give you a really nice perspective color renderings yeah okay so a little hard to see but in the this is the proposed additions so in the very top right corner I don't know if you guys can see it on your screens or not but can we zoom in at all that right corner sorry to make you do all that work that top right corner just so we can kind of see that front porch okay so similar to case number one tonight pretty common nowadays is we're proposing just a nice simple front porch to give the house some front dimension this porch basically just covers the existing front steps so it does encroach into the setback but there's a couple things that are unique this particular house sits almost 80 feet from the road so even though we're encroaching in the setback with that front porch we're still significantly further from the road from many of the houses that would be within the 40-foot traditional setback as we move to the west you can't see it in this picture because it's screened and I think one of the points about the screening in this is that we are proposing structures we that screening and a lot of times you know in my world I see people just throwing up a line of screening we're really conscious to try to make it look purposeful to make it look balanced to make it look layered so that you're not just looking at a long line of something so if you see from the landscape and there's nothing to do with your approval but just the time that went into how do we get the aesthetic to feel right across the entire property okay can we scroll back out work so then if we go if we scroll into like the bottom left picture so that's what's within the screening so there's a flat roofed pool house a small pool it's about 15 by 38 and a little covered pergola area the pool house serves as since it is sort of a destination thing it serves as a secondary area to grab a drink or whatever when we're there by the pool obviously helps with road noise off of Corton and we were conscious to keep it as a flat roof so that it could be easily screened from the Corton roadside on the other side there's also screening that neighbor is the only one that is impacted by this in terms of being close to the project and my client who's here

  127. that screening and a lot of times you know in my world I see people just throwing up a line of screening we're really conscious to try to make it look purposeful to make it look balanced to make it look layered so that you're not just looking at a long line of something so if you see from the landscape and there's nothing to do with your approval but just the time that went into how do we get the aesthetic to feel right across the entire property okay can we scroll back out work so then if we go if we scroll into like the bottom left picture so that's what's within the screening so there's a flat roofed pool house a small pool it's about 15 by 38 and a little covered pergola area the pool house serves as since it is sort of a destination thing it serves as a secondary area to grab a drink or whatever when we're there by the pool obviously helps with road noise off of Corton and we were conscious to keep it as a flat roof so that it could be easily screened from the Corton roadside on the other side there's also screening that neighbor is the only one that is impacted by this in terms of being close to the project and my client who's here with me tonight had a nice conversation and we received approval from that neighbor and wished him luck on the project so we did do our due diligence on that so I think with everything we're dealing with here we were able to fit what I feel is a tastefully designed addition to this property with a lot of constraints. And we certainly, and I can go through the practical difficulties, but we certainly have a lot of practical difficulties here. We've got easements all over the place, not only actually in the back, but on the side of the house. We've got a pie-shaped lot that makes it hard to try to fit everything within the required setbacks. We're on a major main road, which requires some buffering. So I feel that we did a pretty good job and, of course, try to be as respectful as we could of the township's ordinances. And in most cases, especially in, like, the back where the neighbor's affected, we met the 16-foot setback and things like that, just so it doesn't affect them at all. As Mr. Kolinsky likes, we've screened the heck out of this thing. So you won't see anything, but happy to answer any questions.

  128. impacted by this in terms of being close to the project and my client who's here with me tonight had a nice conversation and we received approval from that neighbor and wished him luck on the project so we did do our due diligence on that so I think with everything we're dealing with here we were able to fit what I feel is a tastefully designed addition to this property with a lot of constraints. And we certainly, and I can go through the practical difficulties, but we certainly have a lot of practical difficulties here. We've got easements all over the place, not only actually in the back, but on the side of the house. We've got a pie-shaped lot that makes it hard to try to fit everything within the required setbacks. We're on a major main road, which requires some buffering. So I feel that we did a pretty good job and, of course, try to be as respectful as we could of the township's ordinances. And in most cases, especially in, like, the back where the neighbor's affected, we met the 16-foot setback and things like that, just so it doesn't affect them at all. As Mr. Kolinsky likes, we've screened the heck out of this thing. So you won't see anything, but happy to answer any questions. Might as well start now. Do you mind? No, no. I didn't know if you wanted to open the public and then hear some comments. Is there anyone who'd like to speak on this item? Okay. Close public hearing now. Okay. So, yeah, I know this property pretty well. It's a very unique lot. So, again, I understand not only was the backyard with that drain, it's also pretty narrow anyway. So it would have made it very tough to try to fit all those things in. So, I'm one of... our slides can you show me where the fence is going to be is because i know technically pool fences are not screened but you're in the side yard so where is that pool fence can we go to the plan view corey please landscape plan yeah right there so if you look at the yellow it weaves in between all the evergreen trees so the idea is is that you don't see it from the road so because when i look on the road side on the top of that yep so i always think of when i think of a pool fence i think its intent is to screen the pool we're adding some additional yard with that which i understand because of where this is right but is that going to be seen at all from court not not at all and we know that we're that when we place all the plants and it's in there you will not see that pool fence from the neighbors the road any public view okay because we're putting this in

  129. Might as well start now. Do you mind? No, no. I didn't know if you wanted to open the public and then hear some comments. Is there anyone who'd like to speak on this item? Okay. Close public hearing now. Okay. So, yeah, I know this property pretty well. It's a very unique lot. So, again, I understand not only was the backyard with that drain, it's also pretty narrow anyway. So it would have made it very tough to try to fit all those things in. So, I'm one of... our slides can you show me where the fence is going to be is because i know technically pool fences are not screened but you're in the side yard so where is that pool fence can we go to the plan view corey please landscape plan yeah right there so if you look at the yellow it weaves in between all the evergreen trees so the idea is is that you don't see it from the road so because when i look on the road side on the top of that yep so i always think of when i think of a pool fence i think its intent is to screen the pool we're adding some additional yard with that which i understand because of where this is right but is that going to be seen at all from court not not at all and we know that we're that when we place all the plants and it's in there you will not see that pool fence from the neighbors the road any public view okay because we're putting this in the side yard 100 court and roads there i also again i want privacy for them too people are driving down that their lights going to be there yep so i i put that fully on record and that's their intention too it's just the defense goes away to everybody including public view public view so what about on the more south at the bottom end you obviously showed me some big trees is there a hedge that goes all the way on that towards the bottom yeah so so basically you know when we do a fence plan like this it's it's hard to show everything but as you probably know like when we go to actually do those plantings we set them on site okay so we got to we stand at every angle and make sure and like i say and i said it in the last case is um the building department is really on top of that now. They literally stand out there and they look at every angle as well. So I think your concerns with my cases and everybody else's will fortunately be addressed from here forward. I don't do the follow-up where I make sure that's the right thing. I leave it to the professionals. Andrea's team does a good job. I just, this is also on a more main road. So I understand that when they have kids, they want that fence in. I also don't want to see it. And I understand we don't have to do that for pool fences. Yep. But I also don't have to prove it

  130. not see that pool fence from the neighbors the road any public view okay because we're putting this in the side yard 100 court and roads there i also again i want privacy for them too people are driving down that their lights going to be there yep so i i put that fully on record and that's their intention too it's just the defense goes away to everybody including public view public view so what about on the more south at the bottom end you obviously showed me some big trees is there a hedge that goes all the way on that towards the bottom yeah so so basically you know when we do a fence plan like this it's it's hard to show everything but as you probably know like when we go to actually do those plantings we set them on site okay so we got to we stand at every angle and make sure and like i say and i said it in the last case is um the building department is really on top of that now. They literally stand out there and they look at every angle as well. So I think your concerns with my cases and everybody else's will fortunately be addressed from here forward. I don't do the follow-up where I make sure that's the right thing. I leave it to the professionals. Andrea's team does a good job. I just, this is also on a more main road. So I understand that when they have kids, they want that fence in. I also don't want to see it. And I understand we don't have to do that for pool fences. Yep. But I also don't have to prove it in the side yard either. Totally get it. You know, this is an area, they got young kids and I'm sure, I don't know if you have kids or not, but you know, you just want to have that comfort that they're not going to get out to the road and they have a little space to play. So, but you won't see it. So then I also, when we looked at the landscape plan that showed the renderings, which was great, I could see the roof of the structure. Yep. So we'll bring, we'll make sure that when it's done and you're welcome to put it in your motion that you will not, you cannot see the structure from public view. So we'll make sure that those cedars are to the top above that structure. So when you look from Porton, it's not visible. Or the neighbor's property. Now, to give you some context, us architects, we like to show a little bit of that dimension because it looks good, but we know. I understand. I'm just, I'm making sure you and or your clients are mistaken. Totally get it. Or if we have to buy 12-foot trees and make it work because even though it's 10 feet, that that is going to be the requirement. They, they understand. I've went over that with them and totally agree. I just... got to make those renderings look good. I get it. I'm kidding you. It's a give and take. So, besides that, I don't really have anything else. So, I'll say I drive by this a lot. Until we met this morning, I didn't realize that the property behind that has the easement

  131. But I also don't have to prove it in the side yard either. Totally get it. You know, this is an area, they got young kids and I'm sure, I don't know if you have kids or not, but you know, you just want to have that comfort that they're not going to get out to the road and they have a little space to play. So, but you won't see it. So then I also, when we looked at the landscape plan that showed the renderings, which was great, I could see the roof of the structure. Yep. So we'll bring, we'll make sure that when it's done and you're welcome to put it in your motion that you will not, you cannot see the structure from public view. So we'll make sure that those cedars are to the top above that structure. So when you look from Porton, it's not visible. Or the neighbor's property. Now, to give you some context, us architects, we like to show a little bit of that dimension because it looks good, but we know. I understand. I'm just, I'm making sure you and or your clients are mistaken. Totally get it. Or if we have to buy 12-foot trees and make it work because even though it's 10 feet, that that is going to be the requirement. They, they understand. I've went over that with them and totally agree. I just... got to make those renderings look good. I get it. I'm kidding you. It's a give and take. So, besides that, I don't really have anything else. So, I'll say I drive by this a lot. Until we met this morning, I didn't realize that the property behind that has the easement didn't own that furniture. That this, the shape of the slot is extremely unusual. I think you've done a remarkable job because of all those things. It's very visible. It's on Korten. You're trying to have a space for a family to enjoy that's safe. That, you know, it deals with the noise from Korten and likewise is invisible. So, I think given all those constraints with the drain in the back and easement to the side, you know, you're self-interested and you use the word tasteful. But, I do think that this is very well done. Thank you very much. So, I'll make a motion. Go ahead. Yeah. So, again, I'm not against it. I want us to make sure we came to make it very green. No, I respect where you're coming from. Totally. Okay. So, in regards to the appeal. He's a tough grader. So, but that's important. That's right. Again, I want our clients to be able, I want our residents to be able to invest in their properties and be able to love them. I also want to make sure that doesn't have any negative impact on the other person who has their beautiful home and their yard. So, that's where I'm coming from. So, for the, in regards to the appeal.

  132. Until we met this morning, I didn't realize that the property behind that has the easement didn't own that furniture. That this, the shape of the slot is extremely unusual. I think you've done a remarkable job because of all those things. It's very visible. It's on Korten. You're trying to have a space for a family to enjoy that's safe. That, you know, it deals with the noise from Korten and likewise is invisible. So, I think given all those constraints with the drain in the back and easement to the side, you know, you're self-interested and you use the word tasteful. But, I do think that this is very well done. Thank you very much. So, I'll make a motion. Go ahead. Yeah. So, again, I'm not against it. I want us to make sure we came to make it very green. No, I respect where you're coming from. Totally. Okay. So, in regards to the appeal. He's a tough grader. So, but that's important. That's right. Again, I want our clients to be able, I want our residents to be able to invest in their properties and be able to love them. I also want to make sure that doesn't have any negative impact on the other person who has their beautiful home and their yard. So, that's where I'm coming from. So, for the, in regards to the appeal. at 3855 Court and Road for the accessory structures. That includes the cabana, the pergola, the pool, the spa, the gas fire pit, and wall on this. Before I make this, where is the wall? So you have a staircase. Where is the staircase going? The staircase goes down to a basement so we can hide all the equipment underneath the structure. And you don't have to do anything with the equipment. That's great. That's kind of cool. That's really cool. We're going to hide that wall completely? Yeah, the hedge is on the outside of that wall. Really cool. So I move the request to be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance of section 42-76 standards because these accessory structures are appropriate to the neighborhood as many other homes have. Again, spas, pergolas, pools, cabanas, et cetera. In regards to the dimensional variance, at 3855 Court and Road for the accessory structures being placed in anything but the rear yard, I move the request be approved as requested. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because you can't put anything in that backyard because of the easement in the drain. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of we are going to be screening it

  133. at 3855 Court and Road for the accessory structures. That includes the cabana, the pergola, the pool, the spa, the gas fire pit, and wall on this. Before I make this, where is the wall? So you have a staircase. Where is the staircase going? The staircase goes down to a basement so we can hide all the equipment underneath the structure. And you don't have to do anything with the equipment. That's great. That's kind of cool. That's really cool. We're going to hide that wall completely? Yeah, the hedge is on the outside of that wall. Really cool. So I move the request to be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance of section 42-76 standards because these accessory structures are appropriate to the neighborhood as many other homes have. Again, spas, pergolas, pools, cabanas, et cetera. In regards to the dimensional variance, at 3855 Court and Road for the accessory structures being placed in anything but the rear yard, I move the request be approved as requested. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because you can't put anything in that backyard because of the easement in the drain. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of we are going to be screening it so I can't see anything from the road or any neighbor's property, including our fence. The unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated because, again, the shape and, again, that drain and the easements that were- here prior to your clients buying it this is not self-created because of the fact of all those easements were in place prior to your clients buying the property if this motion is approved all applications for necessary permits must be made within one year for the accessory structure and all permits must be obtained prior to construction again additional every green screenings will be required and you will not be able to see us from public view for 12 months out of the year support motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations thank you so much appreciate yes I am 15 four zero zero zero overlay good evening on a reward my name is Roger bus margin a few months ago my partner and I purchased a home at 4,000 overlay court which we intend to turn our for into our forever home we fell in love with the views but

  134. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of we are going to be screening it so I can't see anything from the road or any neighbor's property, including our fence. The unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated because, again, the shape and, again, that drain and the easements that were- here prior to your clients buying it this is not self-created because of the fact of all those easements were in place prior to your clients buying the property if this motion is approved all applications for necessary permits must be made within one year for the accessory structure and all permits must be obtained prior to construction again additional every green screenings will be required and you will not be able to see us from public view for 12 months out of the year support motion support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations thank you so much appreciate yes I am 15 four zero zero zero overlay good evening on a reward my name is Roger bus margin a few months ago my partner and I purchased a home at 4,000 overlay court which we intend to turn our for into our forever home we fell in love with the views but the challenging very challenging sites as you drive in it's a very small drive you can't turn around there's a steep drop on the lakeside there's a septic field the house is very small only two bedrooms so we're hoping that you give us the variance we're requesting due to the challenges like I said the drive you can't go in and actually turn back around and go back out there's no garage in fact you actually have to back up to the neighbors yard and back into their driveway and turn back around as as it is today but on days like this when it's snowy it's actually very dangerous as well the conditions it's it's not being kept up but we also found out that there were a lot of Howard Turner homes in this neighborhood and although this house has been desecrated over the years and some of the character turn taken out we intend to restore it very thoughtfully I'm also an architect by schooling so I have a passion for this do a very modest addition and expand the drive and create a better retaining wall system that's there right now make it safe and be able to turn around and I'm sure our architect Charlie he'd here is going to

  135. the challenging very challenging sites as you drive in it's a very small drive you can't turn around there's a steep drop on the lakeside there's a septic field the house is very small only two bedrooms so we're hoping that you give us the variance we're requesting due to the challenges like I said the drive you can't go in and actually turn back around and go back out there's no garage in fact you actually have to back up to the neighbors yard and back into their driveway and turn back around as as it is today but on days like this when it's snowy it's actually very dangerous as well the conditions it's it's not being kept up but we also found out that there were a lot of Howard Turner homes in this neighborhood and although this house has been desecrated over the years and some of the character turn taken out we intend to restore it very thoughtfully I'm also an architect by schooling so I have a passion for this do a very modest addition and expand the drive and create a better retaining wall system that's there right now make it safe and be able to turn around and I'm sure our architect Charlie he'd here is going to explain a little further thank you no further comments he explained it all perfectly I'm just kidding so anyway thank you for talking to us not hearing our variance the the two things we're trying to bring the attention tonight of the the improvement of the plateau which is not in accordance with the ordinance so what we're proposing is to expand it so that we can actually drive in and turn a vehicle around and that if you go to the site plan it ends up that first kind of drawing the circle or the square at the top the retaining walls and the topography we have to do wouldn't be able to be accomplished the way the ordinance is written just because of the fall off and the angle of the property in the site so we're asking for a variance to the way we would do the retaining walls that you air and a step topography. I think there's a good image further in the presentation of what that looks like. Yeah, that image right there on the bottom right. So what we're talking about doing is expanding a drive plateau and then putting a varied kind of stepping and landscaped retaining wall system with vegetation that would kind of conceal the gravity block walls for the vehicle. So it looks nice against the lake. And so it looks cohesive with the

  136. be able to turn around and I'm sure our architect Charlie he'd here is going to explain a little further thank you no further comments he explained it all perfectly I'm just kidding so anyway thank you for talking to us not hearing our variance the the two things we're trying to bring the attention tonight of the the improvement of the plateau which is not in accordance with the ordinance so what we're proposing is to expand it so that we can actually drive in and turn a vehicle around and that if you go to the site plan it ends up that first kind of drawing the circle or the square at the top the retaining walls and the topography we have to do wouldn't be able to be accomplished the way the ordinance is written just because of the fall off and the angle of the property in the site so we're asking for a variance to the way we would do the retaining walls that you air and a step topography. I think there's a good image further in the presentation of what that looks like. Yeah, that image right there on the bottom right. So what we're talking about doing is expanding a drive plateau and then putting a varied kind of stepping and landscaped retaining wall system with vegetation that would kind of conceal the gravity block walls for the vehicle. So it looks nice against the lake. And so it looks cohesive with the home. Again, this is a really unique home, I will say, for mid-century modern architecture. The second part of the request is the addition on top of the house, which because of lakefront setbacks, you measure that across Gilbert Lake within houses within 500 feet of each side of our house and we end up with a setback that's 159 feet. So this property is uniquely close to the lake already, which makes a non-conforming structure. But we're asking for a variance from that because we're not planning to change the footprint of the house, we're just adding an addition on top. So we're asking for lenience to that. Yeah, you're not moving any closer, you're just going up. Correct. Right. Yeah. It's just the nature of the site's kind of proximity to the lake and the fact that it's on a small lot that's kind of on a peak, I'll say. So with that, you know, we're really excited by this home. Roger is, you know, people for the past 50 years have been, you know, painting this beautiful house, you know, built by. one of frank lloyd wright's builders and taking it apart we want to bring all those qualities back to the house we want to improve the lot and um i believe we have letters from both of his neighbors that are in support of it that we've given to the board already so yeah if i may may add the the

  137. walls for the vehicle. So it looks nice against the lake. And so it looks cohesive with the home. Again, this is a really unique home, I will say, for mid-century modern architecture. The second part of the request is the addition on top of the house, which because of lakefront setbacks, you measure that across Gilbert Lake within houses within 500 feet of each side of our house and we end up with a setback that's 159 feet. So this property is uniquely close to the lake already, which makes a non-conforming structure. But we're asking for a variance from that because we're not planning to change the footprint of the house, we're just adding an addition on top. So we're asking for lenience to that. Yeah, you're not moving any closer, you're just going up. Correct. Right. Yeah. It's just the nature of the site's kind of proximity to the lake and the fact that it's on a small lot that's kind of on a peak, I'll say. So with that, you know, we're really excited by this home. Roger is, you know, people for the past 50 years have been, you know, painting this beautiful house, you know, built by. one of frank lloyd wright's builders and taking it apart we want to bring all those qualities back to the house we want to improve the lot and um i believe we have letters from both of his neighbors that are in support of it that we've given to the board already so yeah if i may may add the the the house steps into the um the terrain quite a bit so we're we're really the addition is very modest and tucked into the land kind of stepped back away from the lake and i've i've walked even though i'm new to the neighborhood i've introduced myself to my neighbors walk them through the plans got two support letters as well as some other people that said they don't oppose it they think it's beautiful and wish me the best of luck so hopefully you feel the same uh openness the public you would like to comment on this item i think the way it is it's already impeding on that hundred foot variance and it's going to ruin the sight line from my house and the view from my house and so i am against the variance

  138. that are in support of it that we've given to the board already so yeah if i may may add the the the house steps into the um the terrain quite a bit so we're we're really the addition is very modest and tucked into the land kind of stepped back away from the lake and i've i've walked even though i'm new to the neighborhood i've introduced myself to my neighbors walk them through the plans got two support letters as well as some other people that said they don't oppose it they think it's beautiful and wish me the best of luck so hopefully you feel the same uh openness the public you would like to comment on this item i think the way it is it's already impeding on that hundred foot variance and it's going to ruin the sight line from my house and the view from my house and so i am against the variance Thank you, sir. Anyone else that would like to speak? I'm Robert Roth. I live at 5575 Shadow Lane. I've been in this neighborhood for many years, and we know this house. And this is one of the houses that was built before really permits were gone because it's less than like 40 feet away from the water. And the thing that we're really worried about, he may be doing a lot of things, he wants to go toward the water, so he'll be 40 feet off the water. We have no houses that are within 150 feet. So when he moves in 50 feet to go up the second load, he's out of audience, and he's against the rules of our area. So we're worried about that and worried about you looking at it. He's talking about the lot being small. It's a very small house. I think it was kind of a beach house way back when in the 40s. And it's really small, and you've got to change everything here.

  139. Thank you, sir. Anyone else that would like to speak? I'm Robert Roth. I live at 5575 Shadow Lane. I've been in this neighborhood for many years, and we know this house. And this is one of the houses that was built before really permits were gone because it's less than like 40 feet away from the water. And the thing that we're really worried about, he may be doing a lot of things, he wants to go toward the water, so he'll be 40 feet off the water. We have no houses that are within 150 feet. So when he moves in 50 feet to go up the second load, he's out of audience, and he's against the rules of our area. So we're worried about that and worried about you looking at it. He's talking about the lot being small. It's a very small house. I think it was kind of a beach house way back when in the 40s. And it's really small, and you've got to change everything here. So I'm not sure that you can do this variance. That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? May I add something, please? Yes, so hold on a second. I'll close public hearing and then you can respond. What I want to say is I tried approaching Mr. Kakos several times, actually. You can just talk to us. The house is not in front of his house at all. In fact, there's a lot of trees there. It's a very heavily vegetated lot. You can't even see this house. If you literally look at the height that we're going, we're way below the height restrictions. Like I said, half the house is tucked into the landscape. The people that would be immediately affected would be my two neighbors on overlay. One is right above me and she thinks it's a beautiful addition. In fact, the addition that we're doing is it's tucked back to the southwest side of the house so that it doesn't impede in anybody's views or anything like that either.

  140. And it's really small, and you've got to change everything here. So I'm not sure that you can do this variance. That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? May I add something, please? Yes, so hold on a second. I'll close public hearing and then you can respond. What I want to say is I tried approaching Mr. Kakos several times, actually. You can just talk to us. The house is not in front of his house at all. In fact, there's a lot of trees there. It's a very heavily vegetated lot. You can't even see this house. If you literally look at the height that we're going, we're way below the height restrictions. Like I said, half the house is tucked into the landscape. The people that would be immediately affected would be my two neighbors on overlay. One is right above me and she thinks it's a beautiful addition. In fact, the addition that we're doing is it's tucked back to the southwest side of the house so that it doesn't impede in anybody's views or anything like that either. So it was very thoughtfully done that we don't disrupt the neighborhood at all and respect the architecture. I guess I'll just add, we're not moving the house anywhere closer to the lake. The footprint's the same. We're just adding a portion to the top of the house that's furthest back from the lake. So we're already trying to conform to the ordinance as much as possible by pushing the addition all the way to the back where it is the only place we could do it on the property. I think there are no pays who are as fast as a property who have been assigned here. But still, at the historical place and contemplating yourself, the time you've kept your attent Sac, Yeah, that's the way our notes read. Okay. Any questions from the board? Sure. Might as well start. So a couple things. Support letters. Can you tell me what neighbors here provide you with support letters? 14007 and 14014. 14007 is actually the house that's probably the closest to my house. All right. Corey, can you put your thing over it? Apparently I'm older than I think because I can't see any. I'm sorry. What's that? 14007. Can you point out where it is? I'm sorry, 4007. Okay. Yeah, that'd be great if you just touch it. So you have a support letter from the two closest to your neighbors?

  141. so that it doesn't impede in anybody's views or anything like that either. So it was very thoughtfully done that we don't disrupt the neighborhood at all and respect the architecture. I guess I'll just add, we're not moving the house anywhere closer to the lake. The footprint's the same. We're just adding a portion to the top of the house that's furthest back from the lake. So we're already trying to conform to the ordinance as much as possible by pushing the addition all the way to the back where it is the only place we could do it on the property. I think there are no pays who are as fast as a property who have been assigned here. But still, at the historical place and contemplating yourself, the time you've kept your attent Sac, Yeah, that's the way our notes read. Okay. Any questions from the board? Sure. Might as well start. So a couple things. Support letters. Can you tell me what neighbors here provide you with support letters? 14007 and 14014. 14007 is actually the house that's probably the closest to my house. All right. Corey, can you put your thing over it? Apparently I'm older than I think because I can't see any. I'm sorry. What's that? 14007. Can you point out where it is? I'm sorry, 4007. Okay. Yeah, that'd be great if you just touch it. So you have a support letter from the two closest to your neighbors? Correct. That have no objection. And you submitted that already to the board? Yes, I did. Perfect. And then the two applicants that came up here are the two, so 25, so he's to yourself. 5525 on shadow lane. I tried calling and stopped by, never responded to me. And that's the gentleman that I believe that came up. Yes, that was one and then 75, Corey. Yeah. 75 is three houses down. Okay. So Chris is not working so I can't show it. Okay, perfect. Even in Florida. No. Okay. So, okay. So the two neighbors, and again, the proposed addition is going to be closest to the neighbor that's directly to the west. Directive to the west. 4-0-0-7, correct. Okay, so because I did get calls specifically on this, talking about obstruction of their views. So I wanted to see who that was and understand it, because people did reach out to me concerning this, and I wanted to understand that, to understand why. How far is a retaining wall from the water? It should be shown on the site point. Yeah, when you look like, again, I have okay vision, I don't have that good of vision, and when they scan this. Do you have our architectural one we can flip to?

  142. So you have a support letter from the two closest to your neighbors? Correct. That have no objection. And you submitted that already to the board? Yes, I did. Perfect. And then the two applicants that came up here are the two, so 25, so he's to yourself. 5525 on shadow lane. I tried calling and stopped by, never responded to me. And that's the gentleman that I believe that came up. Yes, that was one and then 75, Corey. Yeah. 75 is three houses down. Okay. So Chris is not working so I can't show it. Okay, perfect. Even in Florida. No. Okay. So, okay. So the two neighbors, and again, the proposed addition is going to be closest to the neighbor that's directly to the west. Directive to the west. 4-0-0-7, correct. Okay, so because I did get calls specifically on this, talking about obstruction of their views. So I wanted to see who that was and understand it, because people did reach out to me concerning this, and I wanted to understand that, to understand why. How far is a retaining wall from the water? It should be shown on the site point. Yeah, when you look like, again, I have okay vision, I don't have that good of vision, and when they scan this. Do you have our architectural one we can flip to? This one? Yeah. What is it? So, um. You have to think about, like, that's what hers looks like. I can't. You just zoom in. Yeah, can we zoom in a way? That's awesome. I have your, if you want to look at these. Because again, that yellow area is where you're improving it, so while we said we're not adding to the house, we are adding to the hardscape. Footprint. A footprint or a hardscape to it that is going to be within, not the setback that they're used to. So I just want to make sure that's, that is on record that we are doing that. It isn't a variance, but we are doing it. Yes, we have to do a plateau up there, so they'll be a retaining wall. So I drew sections through that to show the heights, right? Those are on the exhibits too. Does that help? It was, we had, the footprint of the house isn't changing, but the footprint of the driveway is going to be going closer to the water. So I want to just make sure we're technically saying the right thing. Okay. If that makes sense. Yes. be doing that and arguing with it just right so we make it on record so right okay again the neighbors are going to be mostly impacted are the ones that are in favor of it the house is already non-conforming right so if he put an

  143. Do you have our architectural one we can flip to? This one? Yeah. What is it? So, um. You have to think about, like, that's what hers looks like. I can't. You just zoom in. Yeah, can we zoom in a way? That's awesome. I have your, if you want to look at these. Because again, that yellow area is where you're improving it, so while we said we're not adding to the house, we are adding to the hardscape. Footprint. A footprint or a hardscape to it that is going to be within, not the setback that they're used to. So I just want to make sure that's, that is on record that we are doing that. It isn't a variance, but we are doing it. Yes, we have to do a plateau up there, so they'll be a retaining wall. So I drew sections through that to show the heights, right? Those are on the exhibits too. Does that help? It was, we had, the footprint of the house isn't changing, but the footprint of the driveway is going to be going closer to the water. So I want to just make sure we're technically saying the right thing. Okay. If that makes sense. Yes. be doing that and arguing with it just right so we make it on record so right okay again the neighbors are going to be mostly impacted are the ones that are in favor of it the house is already non-conforming right so if he put an air conditioning on this house it'd be non-conforming and have an issue correct so similar to what we do with the village it's a matter of does it negatively affect it or how is the impact so and where he's putting that addition the neighbor to that side has no problem and apparently doesn't obstruct their view and the neighbor to the south who came here at five five two five still appears have a pretty good Lakeview right so it's not like it is completely unobstructed those are my thoughts if he was gonna obstruct any person's view and they came here and protested and I'm gonna have a problem but it looks like the neighbor who could be affected is not in problem of it and still has a high enough elevation that this won't affect their view I'm just out of curiosity what is the square foot of the original home square footage mm-hmm close to 3,000 I think but that half of that's the basement most of it is just underground so the house right now is 2,400 square feet and it's 3,000 if you do count the basement with it and it's got two bedrooms a very tight home 2,400 square feet first floor and how much is this square foot of the addition

  144. favor of it the house is already non-conforming right so if he put an air conditioning on this house it'd be non-conforming and have an issue correct so similar to what we do with the village it's a matter of does it negatively affect it or how is the impact so and where he's putting that addition the neighbor to that side has no problem and apparently doesn't obstruct their view and the neighbor to the south who came here at five five two five still appears have a pretty good Lakeview right so it's not like it is completely unobstructed those are my thoughts if he was gonna obstruct any person's view and they came here and protested and I'm gonna have a problem but it looks like the neighbor who could be affected is not in problem of it and still has a high enough elevation that this won't affect their view I'm just out of curiosity what is the square foot of the original home square footage mm-hmm close to 3,000 I think but that half of that's the basement most of it is just underground so the house right now is 2,400 square feet and it's 3,000 if you do count the basement with it and it's got two bedrooms a very tight home 2,400 square feet first floor and how much is this square foot of the addition I believe it's about 800 square feet, something of that size, maybe a little smaller than that actually. I'm sorry. It wasn't a trick question, I'm sorry. It's just a number. I'm okay with it. Anybody have any other questions? Any other questions? Make a motion. I'll make a motion then. Make sure I'm looking at the right one. Okay. Dimensional variance. In regards to the appeal at, is it 4,000 overly? Yep. Of 4,000 overly for the retaining wall to exceed 4 feet in height, for the second story addition encroaching 58 feet in the required 100 foot lake front setback, and for increasing the nonconformity. I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical

  145. I believe it's about 800 square feet, something of that size, maybe a little smaller than that actually. I'm sorry. It wasn't a trick question, I'm sorry. It's just a number. I'm okay with it. Anybody have any other questions? Any other questions? Make a motion. I'll make a motion then. Make sure I'm looking at the right one. Okay. Dimensional variance. In regards to the appeal at, is it 4,000 overly? Yep. Of 4,000 overly for the retaining wall to exceed 4 feet in height, for the second story addition encroaching 58 feet in the required 100 foot lake front setback, and for increasing the nonconformity. I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty, because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome. Basically, because without actually this addition in making it safer for driving and space, it would prevent reasonable use of the property. That would prevent reasonable use of the property. That would prevent reasonable use of the property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. For one, the most impactful neighbors, the adjacent neighbors, are in support of it. I think also that it will make the home actually much more buildable. Unique circumstances of the property, again, because it is also currently non-conforming, and also because of the lake frontage and where the home is positioned on the lot closer to the lake makes it actually more challenging as well. And because of all of that, it is not self-created. So with that said, if approved, the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? Yes. For the retaining wall, we're going to require screening. He has a screening plan, but it's technically not full screening. He is providing ways. It is really only the water side, but I know other retaining walls of this size we require.

  146. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty, because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome. Basically, because without actually this addition in making it safer for driving and space, it would prevent reasonable use of the property. That would prevent reasonable use of the property. That would prevent reasonable use of the property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. For one, the most impactful neighbors, the adjacent neighbors, are in support of it. I think also that it will make the home actually much more buildable. Unique circumstances of the property, again, because it is also currently non-conforming, and also because of the lake frontage and where the home is positioned on the lot closer to the lake makes it actually more challenging as well. And because of all of that, it is not self-created. So with that said, if approved, the motion also includes application for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? Yes. For the retaining wall, we're going to require screening. He has a screening plan, but it's technically not full screening. He is providing ways. It is really only the water side, but I know other retaining walls of this size we require. So I'm just... Okay. It's up to you. It's your motion. I just wanted to discuss it as a board. Yeah, I mean, I'm okay with it without screening. I was thinking without it. Well, when we looked at those renderings, I wasn't quite sure if the screening needed to occur, because it wasn't necessarily visible. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, right. That's what I just wanted to discuss. That's what I thought. Perfect. And it looked architecturally pleasing to go with the... Right. Right. It was meant to be seen. Well that's why we have discussion on the motion so it's great. So we're good? Okay. So all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations your request is granted. Thank you. Thank you very much. Item 16. 3063, Franklin. It's me again. Zach, DHE. This, we submitted the ZBA last year also on this pool and the retaining wall but for a reason I think the spa and the fireballs were not included in the motion or in the letter at the end. So when we went to the building department, we built the spa but then when we came to the fireballs, it wasn't

  147. It is really only the water side, but I know other retaining walls of this size we require. So I'm just... Okay. It's up to you. It's your motion. I just wanted to discuss it as a board. Yeah, I mean, I'm okay with it without screening. I was thinking without it. Well, when we looked at those renderings, I wasn't quite sure if the screening needed to occur, because it wasn't necessarily visible. That's what I was thinking. Yeah, right. That's what I just wanted to discuss. That's what I thought. Perfect. And it looked architecturally pleasing to go with the... Right. Right. It was meant to be seen. Well that's why we have discussion on the motion so it's great. So we're good? Okay. So all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations your request is granted. Thank you. Thank you very much. Item 16. 3063, Franklin. It's me again. Zach, DHE. This, we submitted the ZBA last year also on this pool and the retaining wall but for a reason I think the spa and the fireballs were not included in the motion or in the letter at the end. So when we went to the building department, we built the spa but then when we came to the fireballs, it wasn't in the minutes I guess. So that's why we submitted again for this one. And these are before you because they're not immediately adjacent to the house on a patio. They're a little bit different. They're setbacks separate from the house. They're not on that patio immediately adjacent. That's why it's before you. Does the height make a difference? So we also have a hot tub and a gas fire pit? Yes. Okay. You want to talk about those a little bit or the hot tub? Yeah. That's what I said. I mean, we submitted this ZBA last year. year also, but it wasn't included in the motion at the end or for a reason. So the SPA was built already, and the building department approved it, and we built it. But then when we came to the firewalls, they said the SPA also was not included in the last year's ZBA minutes. So that's why we submitted another ZBA this year, just to go over this and get the approval.

  148. building department, we built the spa but then when we came to the fireballs, it wasn't in the minutes I guess. So that's why we submitted again for this one. And these are before you because they're not immediately adjacent to the house on a patio. They're a little bit different. They're setbacks separate from the house. They're not on that patio immediately adjacent. That's why it's before you. Does the height make a difference? So we also have a hot tub and a gas fire pit? Yes. Okay. You want to talk about those a little bit or the hot tub? Yeah. That's what I said. I mean, we submitted this ZBA last year. year also, but it wasn't included in the motion at the end or for a reason. So the SPA was built already, and the building department approved it, and we built it. But then when we came to the firewalls, they said the SPA also was not included in the last year's ZBA minutes. So that's why we submitted another ZBA this year, just to go over this and get the approval. How high is the hot tub? No, it's flat with the surface, maybe one foot only. Okay. All right. I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to speak on this item? And I'll close the public hearing. Bring it back to the board. So we have the fire bowls set atop a pier, the hot tub, which is level with the ground, a gas fire pit. I can make a motion. Okay. In regards to the appeal at 3063 Franklin Road for the four 3x3x4 tall gas fire bowls on a pier, also a 10x14 hot tub and a gas fire pit. I move that the request be approved to submit it based on information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6. standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it is in the rear of the residence and it doesn't encroach any of the setbacks if approved the application must include application for unnecessary

  149. How high is the hot tub? No, it's flat with the surface, maybe one foot only. Okay. All right. I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to speak on this item? And I'll close the public hearing. Bring it back to the board. So we have the fire bowls set atop a pier, the hot tub, which is level with the ground, a gas fire pit. I can make a motion. Okay. In regards to the appeal at 3063 Franklin Road for the four 3x3x4 tall gas fire bowls on a pier, also a 10x14 hot tub and a gas fire pit. I move that the request be approved to submit it based on information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6. standards because the use of accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as it is in the rear of the residence and it doesn't encroach any of the setbacks if approved the application must include application for unnecessary permits made within one year for accessory structures and all permits must be obtained prior to construction evergreen planting how do we screen this it was included in the last year the screening was included in the last year we're going to put evergreen all around to to screen the the area so the hot tub and the surround is fully screened yeah yeah that was in last year's EVA okay well I still like to add that the additional screening may be required if there's any openings in this screening that is planned from public view and plantings must meet or exceed the height of the accessory structures at time installation for 12 months out of the year support yeah motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations thank you thank you item 17 2165 telegraph good evening everyone my name is Paul Dieters I am with Metro signs and lighting one one four four four for Colts Avenue in Mormon

  150. the setbacks if approved the application must include application for unnecessary permits made within one year for accessory structures and all permits must be obtained prior to construction evergreen planting how do we screen this it was included in the last year the screening was included in the last year we're going to put evergreen all around to to screen the the area so the hot tub and the surround is fully screened yeah yeah that was in last year's EVA okay well I still like to add that the additional screening may be required if there's any openings in this screening that is planned from public view and plantings must meet or exceed the height of the accessory structures at time installation for 12 months out of the year support yeah motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations thank you thank you item 17 2165 telegraph good evening everyone my name is Paul Dieters I am with Metro signs and lighting one one four four four for Colts Avenue in Mormon I'm here before you this evening for a monument sign for the new DFCU location. As we had mentioned and gone to this for the DRB before, I think you know this is on the accessory road going back in towards the shopping center. There's just an awful lot going on there. And it's going to be a little bit difficult for clients for DFCU to discern how to enter into the building. There's no entrance off of telegraph, people are going pretty fast, you get in, it would be really nice and I think add to the safety for the site to have this sign there. I think it's appropriately sized and having a sign there prevents their customers from passing that and if they get past that entranceway they have to go into the parking lot and turn around to get back there. I just think that this makes a lot of sense from a practical standpoint, a safety standpoint, and it will just make a lot easier for their customers to navigate through there. Any questions from the board? Open this to the public. Is that a fake out there? It's too late for that. I admire your humor this late in the evening.

  151. I'm here before you this evening for a monument sign for the new DFCU location. As we had mentioned and gone to this for the DRB before, I think you know this is on the accessory road going back in towards the shopping center. There's just an awful lot going on there. And it's going to be a little bit difficult for clients for DFCU to discern how to enter into the building. There's no entrance off of telegraph, people are going pretty fast, you get in, it would be really nice and I think add to the safety for the site to have this sign there. I think it's appropriately sized and having a sign there prevents their customers from passing that and if they get past that entranceway they have to go into the parking lot and turn around to get back there. I just think that this makes a lot of sense from a practical standpoint, a safety standpoint, and it will just make a lot easier for their customers to navigate through there. Any questions from the board? Open this to the public. Is that a fake out there? It's too late for that. I admire your humor this late in the evening. So a closed public hearing and bring it back for a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. In regards to the appeal at 2165 Telegraph Road for the dimensional variance. for having a one accessory sign and logo exceeding 5% of the total area of the sign. I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the unique fact that there's no curb cut off of Telegraph for this. You're going in off of that side lot, and then there's not a secondary one if they miss the entrance. Again, there's no injustice to the joint in laborers by the reason of, again, it's all commercial in that area. Is this sign lit? Yes, it is, internally. Internally, and it'll be lit all the time? No, only during their hours of operation in the evening. So, well, in the winter, it'll stay till how late? When do you like it? So we typically close at 5. Yeah. So it'll be shut off, not with the automatic lights that are illuminating your parking lot? So typically, we need to use a motor light distribution.

  152. I admire your humor this late in the evening. So a closed public hearing and bring it back for a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. In regards to the appeal at 2165 Telegraph Road for the dimensional variance. for having a one accessory sign and logo exceeding 5% of the total area of the sign. I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all stands for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of the unique fact that there's no curb cut off of Telegraph for this. You're going in off of that side lot, and then there's not a secondary one if they miss the entrance. Again, there's no injustice to the joint in laborers by the reason of, again, it's all commercial in that area. Is this sign lit? Yes, it is, internally. Internally, and it'll be lit all the time? No, only during their hours of operation in the evening. So, well, in the winter, it'll stay till how late? When do you like it? So we typically close at 5. Yeah. So it'll be shut off, not with the automatic lights that are illuminating your parking lot? So typically, we need to use a motor light distribution. It's usually as long as they're practical for when there's an activity at their drive-through for the ATMs and things, but that's at your discretion. Yeah, I know. I don't even have my motion now. Do we have a normal on this, Andrea? I'm not aware of any lights within this area near that shopping center that have time provisions on it. Okay. That's fine. So, again, there's no injustice to your joint in neighbors by the reason of, again, this is a commercial area. It's a commercial area. It's a commercial area. It's a commercial area. It's a commercial area. of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact that again there's no curb cut off Telegraph Road and this is going to be part of that out access into that shopping center. This is not self created due to the fact that again you guys were not giving a curb cut this is just for this new structure. If approved all necessary permits must be obtained prior to construction and all necessary permits must be made within one year. Support. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Calling item 1840 East Square Lake.

  153. It's usually as long as they're practical for when there's an activity at their drive-through for the ATMs and things, but that's at your discretion. Yeah, I know. I don't even have my motion now. Do we have a normal on this, Andrea? I'm not aware of any lights within this area near that shopping center that have time provisions on it. Okay. That's fine. So, again, there's no injustice to your joint in neighbors by the reason of, again, this is a commercial area. It's a commercial area. It's a commercial area. It's a commercial area. It's a commercial area. of this property have been demonstrated because of the fact that again there's no curb cut off Telegraph Road and this is going to be part of that out access into that shopping center. This is not self created due to the fact that again you guys were not giving a curb cut this is just for this new structure. If approved all necessary permits must be obtained prior to construction and all necessary permits must be made within one year. Support. Motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Calling item 1840 East Square Lake. He waited this long. Hello my name is Robert O'Quinn. I work with Allied signs. I started doing this back in 91 for that man's company right there. This year I'll be 54. I've like I said been installing signs out in the field for many years. No no you're 55 after this meeting. It's a whole lot easier than well than high-rises on the freeway let me tell you. I'm sorry what item are you here for? Square Lake? Yes I am. I'm here for the Clean Express Auto Car Wash. So we skipped over Andy who just walked in but we did? No he said that was 17 this is 18. Can we just approve 17? never mind I'm gonna go ahead sir so we have a few few items here the sign they want to propose signs on here and the one free vacuums is more of informational signs is how I see that it's what we would call a flat cut sign kind of like the badge here on your on your desk but it's really more like the name plates

  154. He waited this long. Hello my name is Robert O'Quinn. I work with Allied signs. I started doing this back in 91 for that man's company right there. This year I'll be 54. I've like I said been installing signs out in the field for many years. No no you're 55 after this meeting. It's a whole lot easier than well than high-rises on the freeway let me tell you. I'm sorry what item are you here for? Square Lake? Yes I am. I'm here for the Clean Express Auto Car Wash. So we skipped over Andy who just walked in but we did? No he said that was 17 this is 18. Can we just approve 17? never mind I'm gonna go ahead sir so we have a few few items here the sign they want to propose signs on here and the one free vacuums is more of informational signs is how I see that it's what we would call a flat cut sign kind of like the badge here on your on your desk but it's really more like the name plates above where it's information where they're not where they're not using as a trademark if you will got it okay and if the the neighbor had a complaint if you would as a party store cold beer well he's not putting free beer out there free bears information everybody knows a party store is cold beer and as far as the height on the clean Express Auto wash it has to be below the roof line isn't the roof line at the top of the parapet wall I mean that sign would be really low I'm not gonna argue against ordinance and planning on this man you know and then the other thing was the little logo that's next to the sea and clean wash It's proportioned to the rest of the signs, it's a neat little package. The two signs combined don't total the allowable square footage. Got any questions?

  155. the badge here on your on your desk but it's really more like the name plates above where it's information where they're not where they're not using as a trademark if you will got it okay and if the the neighbor had a complaint if you would as a party store cold beer well he's not putting free beer out there free bears information everybody knows a party store is cold beer and as far as the height on the clean Express Auto wash it has to be below the roof line isn't the roof line at the top of the parapet wall I mean that sign would be really low I'm not gonna argue against ordinance and planning on this man you know and then the other thing was the little logo that's next to the sea and clean wash It's proportioned to the rest of the signs, it's a neat little package. The two signs combined don't total the allowable square footage. Got any questions? I'd like to open this to the public. Anyone? All right. So you've been so patient. I'm Greg Adams, 61 Douglas Drive, and I'm here with my wife, Patty Hine. We are the residents most heavily affected by what happens on the west side of that brick wall. I've been here many times over the years when they put in a drainage basin on the other side, then they built a Tim Hortons and tore that down. And we've been putting up with some pretty extensive earth work for the last five months. But the signage caught my attention. We did not get any information notifying us that there was going to be a car wash going in there. Otherwise, I would have been here to talk about a sound issue, which we had difficulty with before. But since this all went down before we got any notification that a car wash was even going to go in there, I am concerned about, you know, light pollution, being able to see a sign that's going to be 22 and a half.

  156. I'd like to open this to the public. Anyone? All right. So you've been so patient. I'm Greg Adams, 61 Douglas Drive, and I'm here with my wife, Patty Hine. We are the residents most heavily affected by what happens on the west side of that brick wall. I've been here many times over the years when they put in a drainage basin on the other side, then they built a Tim Hortons and tore that down. And we've been putting up with some pretty extensive earth work for the last five months. But the signage caught my attention. We did not get any information notifying us that there was going to be a car wash going in there. Otherwise, I would have been here to talk about a sound issue, which we had difficulty with before. But since this all went down before we got any notification that a car wash was even going to go in there, I am concerned about, you know, light pollution, being able to see a sign that's going to be 22 and a half. half feet you know from where that building is and the wall is only six feet high I don't want to stare at a sign day and night but a question to the township what are the hours of operation for the car wash going to be when will these lights be on I don't have the hours of operation that was part of the package that would have been submitted to the township board we did have conversation with Colbury estates and I could verify that you I'm sorry if you didn't receive the notice but we do notice every within 500 feet that the forklift truck working on the site is 50 feet from where I sit in my couch I know it's not a 24-hour operation I don't have it off the top my head the hours of operation for the car wash we can certainly get that information and follow-up you'd like to leave your phone number with Corey we can certainly follow-up the hours of operation for you okay we don't live in Colbury estates we live in Colbury Hills there's a difference okay there are two separate subdivisions I want to clarify that for the record

  157. half feet you know from where that building is and the wall is only six feet high I don't want to stare at a sign day and night but a question to the township what are the hours of operation for the car wash going to be when will these lights be on I don't have the hours of operation that was part of the package that would have been submitted to the township board we did have conversation with Colbury estates and I could verify that you I'm sorry if you didn't receive the notice but we do notice every within 500 feet that the forklift truck working on the site is 50 feet from where I sit in my couch I know it's not a 24-hour operation I don't have it off the top my head the hours of operation for the car wash we can certainly get that information and follow-up you'd like to leave your phone number with Corey we can certainly follow-up the hours of operation for you okay we don't live in Colbury estates we live in Colbury Hills there's a difference okay there are two separate subdivisions I want to clarify that for the record Colbury Hills I probably misspoke okay so and we did not receive notification as we did not receive notification on other matters but we won't go into that so I was kind of as you know that we did get a letter about the signage but we didn't get a letter about what was going to go in there we can certainly check our records we keep a record of one notices went out for site plan so we can certainly take a look and do some all we would know if we got it because it would be on our refrigerator yeah and none of our adjacent neighbors understood and the township has told us before that we've gotten communication when we did not we have lived in that home 42 years and we have improved the property beautiful outside and inside and we're we're we are probably the oldest residents in our sunday mansion and we're very disappointed to hear about this before notice to come to a hearing and we have been here all evening waiting to speak on this matter and no one has spoken to us about the car wash no one has come people are out there at 6 30 a.m. in the morning with heavy duty equipment I get up at 7 and the equipment is already running

  158. there's a difference okay there are two separate subdivisions I want to clarify that for the record Colbury Hills I probably misspoke okay so and we did not receive notification as we did not receive notification on other matters but we won't go into that so I was kind of as you know that we did get a letter about the signage but we didn't get a letter about what was going to go in there we can certainly check our records we keep a record of one notices went out for site plan so we can certainly take a look and do some all we would know if we got it because it would be on our refrigerator yeah and none of our adjacent neighbors understood and the township has told us before that we've gotten communication when we did not we have lived in that home 42 years and we have improved the property beautiful outside and inside and we're we're we are probably the oldest residents in our sunday mansion and we're very disappointed to hear about this before notice to come to a hearing and we have been here all evening waiting to speak on this matter and no one has spoken to us about the car wash no one has come people are out there at 6 30 a.m. in the morning with heavy duty equipment I get up at 7 and the equipment is already running so these are items that our department planning building an ordinance would be more than happy to sit down this is the first we've heard from you we need to check into it we don't know that anybody has checked into this any of this and our house just quakes they're operating multiple heavy equipment machinery uh uh I think part of the reason we're a little upset, when the Tim Hortons went in and they put in the drainage basin over there, they brought in a vibratory compactor. They were two and a half months behind schedule, so they brought in a vibratory compactor that's only used on interstates to try to pack the backfill in over the drainage basin. It shattered every brick and piece of mortar on our house. We filed a lawsuit. We tried to go recover the costs, not knowing that a private citizen cannot sue a Michigan business and go to trial. It has to go into arbitration.

  159. 30 a.m. in the morning with heavy duty equipment I get up at 7 and the equipment is already running so these are items that our department planning building an ordinance would be more than happy to sit down this is the first we've heard from you we need to check into it we don't know that anybody has checked into this any of this and our house just quakes they're operating multiple heavy equipment machinery uh uh I think part of the reason we're a little upset, when the Tim Hortons went in and they put in the drainage basin over there, they brought in a vibratory compactor. They were two and a half months behind schedule, so they brought in a vibratory compactor that's only used on interstates to try to pack the backfill in over the drainage basin. It shattered every brick and piece of mortar on our house. We filed a lawsuit. We tried to go recover the costs, not knowing that a private citizen cannot sue a Michigan business and go to trial. It has to go into arbitration. So when we went into arbitration, the three attorneys sat there and said, well, you've made a good point. You've made a good point. We're going to split it down the middle. You both have fault. We got enough out of it only to cover our legal fees. Three years ago, the house was deteriorating because of all the cracks. The moisture was getting in over the winter, kept pushing the bricks apart farther and farther. Three years ago, I had to use seven cans of spray foam to fill all the cracks that were getting wider and wider. We had mice, chipmunks, voles, all kinds of insects all through our house. So we finally bit the bullet, spent $82,000 to rebrick the entire house. Put a pair of enferom's preschool. Put out some sn aos-picks. Some snags signs that were Diplastics the other. But it was better than this 33-year-old Frank madame also said, You did not BROWN to do all kinds of sécurité layers. That's better than that. When we redid it, we put up structural plywood, glued and screwed it into place, taped all the edges, house wrapped. We did a lead quality construction project on the house. It is now surviving the pounding that it's taking from the current construction. So you have an important story to tell and you stayed a very long time. We don't want to divert on that. We want to talk about the signs. Yeah, because we're the zoning board. All we're considering is the signs, but I can empathize to your frustration and you

  160. So when we went into arbitration, the three attorneys sat there and said, well, you've made a good point. You've made a good point. We're going to split it down the middle. You both have fault. We got enough out of it only to cover our legal fees. Three years ago, the house was deteriorating because of all the cracks. The moisture was getting in over the winter, kept pushing the bricks apart farther and farther. Three years ago, I had to use seven cans of spray foam to fill all the cracks that were getting wider and wider. We had mice, chipmunks, voles, all kinds of insects all through our house. So we finally bit the bullet, spent $82,000 to rebrick the entire house. Put a pair of enferom's preschool. Put out some sn aos-picks. Some snags signs that were Diplastics the other. But it was better than this 33-year-old Frank madame also said, You did not BROWN to do all kinds of sécurité layers. That's better than that. When we redid it, we put up structural plywood, glued and screwed it into place, taped all the edges, house wrapped. We did a lead quality construction project on the house. It is now surviving the pounding that it's taking from the current construction. So you have an important story to tell and you stayed a very long time. We don't want to divert on that. We want to talk about the signs. Yeah, because we're the zoning board. All we're considering is the signs, but I can empathize to your frustration and you sat here a long time and you have things that you want to share with the township. So you need to do that with the building department. There's a trustee here, but yeah, all we are voting on tonight is the sign. Right, and we want to talk about this. Okay. Okay. Okay. Do you mind sitting at the... We'll invite you to our backyard, please. Do you mind talking at the podium so now we can hear you? Yes. We'll invite you to our backyard, okay? And you come stand there and please come while this construction is happening and we'll also invite you to come and look at the signs, okay? Because those signs, that's what we're going to see in our backyard. We have a beautifully landscaped backyard that we have spent 42 years creating. And I'll also answer that at this point though. And I've been We are gardeners. We are horticulturists. We have trees. We take pride in our yard. Everybody in our neighborhood enjoys our yard. We don't want to wake up. Right now, I'm waking up in the morning, and when I'm having my cup of coffee,

  161. All we're considering is the signs, but I can empathize to your frustration and you sat here a long time and you have things that you want to share with the township. So you need to do that with the building department. There's a trustee here, but yeah, all we are voting on tonight is the sign. Right, and we want to talk about this. Okay. Okay. Okay. Do you mind sitting at the... We'll invite you to our backyard, please. Do you mind talking at the podium so now we can hear you? Yes. We'll invite you to our backyard, okay? And you come stand there and please come while this construction is happening and we'll also invite you to come and look at the signs, okay? Because those signs, that's what we're going to see in our backyard. We have a beautifully landscaped backyard that we have spent 42 years creating. And I'll also answer that at this point though. And I've been We are gardeners. We are horticulturists. We have trees. We take pride in our yard. Everybody in our neighborhood enjoys our yard. We don't want to wake up. Right now, I'm waking up in the morning, and when I'm having my cup of coffee, I'm seeing a crane setting out there. And the bucket of the crane, and I'm talking about that because the signs are going to be as intrusive as that crane. We're going to see them from our back patio, where we entertain, from our family room. There's no reason for these signs to have a variance, to be taller, bigger, wider. It's a car wash. If they comply with the township codes that currently exist, we'll be happy. So, again, the sign is going to be facing Square Lake. Your property will not be able to see the sign. Yeah, but we didn't know what it was going to look like. So, if we can go back to show where the sign, or where Nate's, I think it's another one, right there. So, if you can see, C and D are facing Square Lake. So, you're, and I know where your home is, but you can't see it. Yeah, what, my question was, we've got a 22-foot, 4-inch height here. This is the main building. This part sticks up. Is that opaque in the back, so that there's no light going backward? Oh, absolutely. No light going backward. Okay. Yeah.

  162. Right now, I'm waking up in the morning, and when I'm having my cup of coffee, I'm seeing a crane setting out there. And the bucket of the crane, and I'm talking about that because the signs are going to be as intrusive as that crane. We're going to see them from our back patio, where we entertain, from our family room. There's no reason for these signs to have a variance, to be taller, bigger, wider. It's a car wash. If they comply with the township codes that currently exist, we'll be happy. So, again, the sign is going to be facing Square Lake. Your property will not be able to see the sign. Yeah, but we didn't know what it was going to look like. So, if we can go back to show where the sign, or where Nate's, I think it's another one, right there. So, if you can see, C and D are facing Square Lake. So, you're, and I know where your home is, but you can't see it. Yeah, what, my question was, we've got a 22-foot, 4-inch height here. This is the main building. This part sticks up. Is that opaque in the back, so that there's no light going backward? Oh, absolutely. No light going backward. Okay. Yeah. I think that's on the face. The only two signs, correct? Correct, that are facing the road. The road, not your property. Again, that's where help and communication can help with that. But even if they're lit, we have to, if we're in the backyard, if we're enjoying an evening outside. The light will be facing north. Okay. Okay. That's achievable. I feel better. Because I can have signs not going to make any difference to your property or your background. Perfect. Now, the noise, we'll be back. Well, again, we're just deciding on the signs. Right. You know, and if there's, where are the vacuums going? They're all inside. Everything's inside. Pardon? They're inside. Really? So no outdoor vacuums? Right. And I would think, could they get more information? I got, Corey got their phone number. We'll probably reach out to them. I'd appreciate it. And again, I'm sorry you had to get all this information in a zoning board meeting. I gave you more time than. Well, we would like to be informed about what is happening next to us. We feel we're not informed. We also know there's a resolution for Western.

  163. I think that's on the face. The only two signs, correct? Correct, that are facing the road. The road, not your property. Again, that's where help and communication can help with that. But even if they're lit, we have to, if we're in the backyard, if we're enjoying an evening outside. The light will be facing north. Okay. Okay. That's achievable. I feel better. Because I can have signs not going to make any difference to your property or your background. Perfect. Now, the noise, we'll be back. Well, again, we're just deciding on the signs. Right. You know, and if there's, where are the vacuums going? They're all inside. Everything's inside. Pardon? They're inside. Really? So no outdoor vacuums? Right. And I would think, could they get more information? I got, Corey got their phone number. We'll probably reach out to them. I'd appreciate it. And again, I'm sorry you had to get all this information in a zoning board meeting. I gave you more time than. Well, we would like to be informed about what is happening next to us. We feel we're not informed. We also know there's a resolution for Western. Has that some notification gone out on that? These are great questions they have now at this point. But to talk to Flynn. Honestly, I'm more than happy. My name's Andrea. And my team, we're more than happy to sit with you. I'm just saying. Come to you. That's. have those discussions not at 10 o'clock at night more than happy with you but i just want to make this clear this is off topic i know it is well you you don't when i call and when my husband calls we don't get answers we know someone will call and no one ever does all set thank you so much ma'am i appreciate your time thank you guys for waiting so long that's that's pretty important we elected you so pretty important so mind if i just speak to this real quick brian sure so the board ma'am so the board is only board of appeals here are appointed bodies by your elected officials the members the men and women that are on this board are appointed by the board of trustees they are members of the community so they are not elected if you were mad at your elected you're mad at me and my colleagues on the board of trustees so those are the people you can talk to about the site plan that was where i would tell you to voice your concerns as well as the planning the members here are appointed and are great so they're not elected i'm the one you

  164. We also know there's a resolution for Western. Has that some notification gone out on that? These are great questions they have now at this point. But to talk to Flynn. Honestly, I'm more than happy. My name's Andrea. And my team, we're more than happy to sit with you. I'm just saying. Come to you. That's. have those discussions not at 10 o'clock at night more than happy with you but i just want to make this clear this is off topic i know it is well you you don't when i call and when my husband calls we don't get answers we know someone will call and no one ever does all set thank you so much ma'am i appreciate your time thank you guys for waiting so long that's that's pretty important we elected you so pretty important so mind if i just speak to this real quick brian sure so the board ma'am so the board is only board of appeals here are appointed bodies by your elected officials the members the men and women that are on this board are appointed by the board of trustees they are members of the community so they are not elected if you were mad at your elected you're mad at me and my colleagues on the board of trustees so those are the people you can talk to about the site plan that was where i would tell you to voice your concerns as well as the planning the members here are appointed and are great so they're not elected i'm the one you made it if you're made it elected okay that's my name we no worries we do it for the thrill and excitement so thank you well and again i i um on behalf of everybody i'm very sorry that you you had to come to this forum to share all those things we hope that you got you know better information now and where to get more and i And at least we will explain to you what the signs are, where they're located and where they're facing. So just one less thing. And thank you for your patience. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back for discussion or a motion. I would like to make a motion. In regards to the appeal, actually before we get started, does anybody have any problems with the height of it being in the parapet versus the main structure? No. So in regards to the appeal at 40 East Square Lake Road for the variance of the sign exceeding total area, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical

  165. planning the members here are appointed and are great so they're not elected i'm the one you made it if you're made it elected okay that's my name we no worries we do it for the thrill and excitement so thank you well and again i i um on behalf of everybody i'm very sorry that you you had to come to this forum to share all those things we hope that you got you know better information now and where to get more and i And at least we will explain to you what the signs are, where they're located and where they're facing. So just one less thing. And thank you for your patience. Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this item? So I'll close the public hearing and bring it back for discussion or a motion. I would like to make a motion. In regards to the appeal, actually before we get started, does anybody have any problems with the height of it being in the parapet versus the main structure? No. So in regards to the appeal at 40 East Square Lake Road for the variance of the sign exceeding total area, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the straitler ordinance would be unduly burdensome because they're trying to show the free vacuums where that is as well as where the main sign is for it. All that is going to be facing Square Lake Road and not facing any adjacent residential to the west or south. There is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of, again, this illuminated sign will not be providing any light pollution from the sign to the east neighbors or the southern neighbors. Unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that, again, this is a long Square Lake Road with heavy traffic and a lot of traffic. So based on that, you would understand why you'd have a sign of that size and where it is. And this is not self credit because, again, Square Lake Road is eight lanes in that area. So, again, heavily traveled. We need it. assigned so people can see it so they're not quickly pulling off or causing any disturbances to the roadway. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Support. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. Thanks. Thank you very much. Hopefully I'll see you again. Not on the side of the freeway while

  166. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the straitler ordinance would be unduly burdensome because they're trying to show the free vacuums where that is as well as where the main sign is for it. All that is going to be facing Square Lake Road and not facing any adjacent residential to the west or south. There is no justice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of, again, this illuminated sign will not be providing any light pollution from the sign to the east neighbors or the southern neighbors. Unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that, again, this is a long Square Lake Road with heavy traffic and a lot of traffic. So based on that, you would understand why you'd have a sign of that size and where it is. And this is not self credit because, again, Square Lake Road is eight lanes in that area. So, again, heavily traveled. We need it. assigned so people can see it so they're not quickly pulling off or causing any disturbances to the roadway. If this motion is approved, application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Support. I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. Thanks. Thank you very much. Hopefully I'll see you again. Not on the side of the freeway while I'm not high-rise. Okay. Calling the next item item 19-42931 Woodward. Number 19? 42931 Woodward. Is there any one here? I'm a resident, so... As am I. Oh. Thanks for waiting. Thanks for you. How about we open it up for public comment? Oh, there's... Unfortunately, you can't see... The applicant's not here. All right. Well, then we'll open the public hearing. What the heck? You guys waited long enough. Thank you. My name is Donald Bradley. I live at 2623 Colonial Way. We're Peggy and Ty. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We've never met one. All right. Homecoming. Thank you. Good to see you. You got my message? I did. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. I live at 2623 Colonial Way in the Colonial State Subdivision. The mall, which is that area where they're going to place this market, Western Market,

  167. Thank you very much. Hopefully I'll see you again. Not on the side of the freeway while I'm not high-rise. Okay. Calling the next item item 19-42931 Woodward. Number 19? 42931 Woodward. Is there any one here? I'm a resident, so... As am I. Oh. Thanks for waiting. Thanks for you. How about we open it up for public comment? Oh, there's... Unfortunately, you can't see... The applicant's not here. All right. Well, then we'll open the public hearing. What the heck? You guys waited long enough. Thank you. My name is Donald Bradley. I live at 2623 Colonial Way. We're Peggy and Ty. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. We've never met one. All right. Homecoming. Thank you. Good to see you. You got my message? I did. God bless you. Thank you. Thank you. I live at 2623 Colonial Way in the Colonial State Subdivision. The mall, which is that area where they're going to place this market, Western Market, and again, notification. I never got notified. I'm a busy physician. I saw this notice. My wife said, did you see what they're going to do here? I said, what do you mean? Our home sits right behind this area where they're going to place this dock, this docking area. It sits right behind the store. I've been living there since 1986. I've been there 40 years, so we got a little seniority there. I've seen Perry's, Rite Aid, Chicken Shack, Jimmy John's, you name it, evolution-wise, in terms of this location. The biggest thing for us is it's an eyesore. I look right off my kitchen window to the area where they want to place this dock. There's garbage bins there. We complained to the townships historically, and they made the other restaurants put tops on the garbage bins. There's a six-feet wall there, but the trash is higher than the walls. The biggest problem with odor is the summertime with decaying garbage and, you know, oil from the frying of chicken and what have you. Motheraj eran, is the real thing. The way that today's a poor thing, you can get it.

  168. The mall, which is that area where they're going to place this market, Western Market, and again, notification. I never got notified. I'm a busy physician. I saw this notice. My wife said, did you see what they're going to do here? I said, what do you mean? Our home sits right behind this area where they're going to place this dock, this docking area. It sits right behind the store. I've been living there since 1986. I've been there 40 years, so we got a little seniority there. I've seen Perry's, Rite Aid, Chicken Shack, Jimmy John's, you name it, evolution-wise, in terms of this location. The biggest thing for us is it's an eyesore. I look right off my kitchen window to the area where they want to place this dock. There's garbage bins there. We complained to the townships historically, and they made the other restaurants put tops on the garbage bins. There's a six-feet wall there, but the trash is higher than the walls. The biggest problem with odor is the summertime with decaying garbage and, you know, oil from the frying of chicken and what have you. Motheraj eran, is the real thing. The way that today's a poor thing, you can get it. awful place now you want to place a supermarket there and we can't imagine how it's gonna be with vegetables and trucks coming in dumpsters coming in so I'm opposed to this whole project completely and I I think it's a sad thing these are some of my colleagues I mean we have a club there I had never met any of them because I'm so busy but when I saw this I had to come forth and talk about this so that's my issue I don't think this should be go forward with this this is a bad situation I wish I had known about the market I would have been at the bus zoning office regarding that so but as far as them putting this cutting this down so trucks can get in and get out it's a high traffic area people do come there and dump trash in the dumpster because the dumpsters are always open so we got a real issue there thank you so we're the zoning board yes we're here to consider a sign variance and then a variance from the size of the loading dock so it's actually going to be smaller than we typically decide so no one's here to present on it but you so it's sort of similar to the comments made earlier is you're I think upset about the use and we're not we're not deciding the

  169. awful place now you want to place a supermarket there and we can't imagine how it's gonna be with vegetables and trucks coming in dumpsters coming in so I'm opposed to this whole project completely and I I think it's a sad thing these are some of my colleagues I mean we have a club there I had never met any of them because I'm so busy but when I saw this I had to come forth and talk about this so that's my issue I don't think this should be go forward with this this is a bad situation I wish I had known about the market I would have been at the bus zoning office regarding that so but as far as them putting this cutting this down so trucks can get in and get out it's a high traffic area people do come there and dump trash in the dumpster because the dumpsters are always open so we got a real issue there thank you so we're the zoning board yes we're here to consider a sign variance and then a variance from the size of the loading dock so it's actually going to be smaller than we typically decide so no one's here to present on it but you so it's sort of similar to the comments made earlier is you're I think upset about the use and we're not we're not deciding the use we're just deciding whether a secondary sign goes in or whether a loading dock that's smaller than what we normally require can go in so those only two things we have the authority to decide. And we certainly can get you in touch with the local developer who has one in Ferndale. I know that he'd be more than happy to talk with you prior to going to the Township Board. So again, if you'd like to give us your information, we'd be more than happy to put you in touch and you can become more familiar with their operations. Thank you. Because we're not deciding the use. That's not within the scope of our authority. We're deciding on if the sign is a problem. So let's speak of the sign and the loading dock. Those are where the, I hope your words are regarding. I'm Tom Westman. I'm the president of Colonial States Property Owners Association. My wife, Peggy, is the treasurer. I'm the recently elected after Jill Gruber after 14 years or whatever. Anyway, Mr. Bradley contacted us the other night and he, via an email, regarding what's going on with this loading dock. Nobody knows. None of us have seen any of the plans. It's a cluster behind there

  170. earlier is you're I think upset about the use and we're not we're not deciding the use we're just deciding whether a secondary sign goes in or whether a loading dock that's smaller than what we normally require can go in so those only two things we have the authority to decide. And we certainly can get you in touch with the local developer who has one in Ferndale. I know that he'd be more than happy to talk with you prior to going to the Township Board. So again, if you'd like to give us your information, we'd be more than happy to put you in touch and you can become more familiar with their operations. Thank you. Because we're not deciding the use. That's not within the scope of our authority. We're deciding on if the sign is a problem. So let's speak of the sign and the loading dock. Those are where the, I hope your words are regarding. I'm Tom Westman. I'm the president of Colonial States Property Owners Association. My wife, Peggy, is the treasurer. I'm the recently elected after Jill Gruber after 14 years or whatever. Anyway, Mr. Bradley contacted us the other night and he, via an email, regarding what's going on with this loading dock. Nobody knows. None of us have seen any of the plans. It's a cluster behind there already. And from his house, I drove by his, in through the alley today, and from his house, all you see is dumpsters, the top, because the dumpsters are seven feet tall. The wall is six feet tall. His house is probably 15 foot elevated. We just want to have an opportunity to talk. Clil them to the door for 1, 2 o'clock. Now that's the fault of the venue. and we thought we would have that opportunity tonight to talk with whoever's building this loading dock and what are they gonna do to get rid of the trash crusher, the dumpsters, the lighting that should be shielded downward is that there's no shielding at all on those lights and those wall packs burn all night. So this is not the board for that. I understand it. Well, we just found that out. Well, you were just trying to get information and the applicant's not here to answer any of those. Thank you. We were kind of hoping he was and he was thinking I was. We hit the jackpot tonight with really so many... Who should we, how do we get in touch with or how do we find out what exactly is the plan? We absolutely have, we always encourage developers

  171. this loading dock. Nobody knows. None of us have seen any of the plans. It's a cluster behind there already. And from his house, I drove by his, in through the alley today, and from his house, all you see is dumpsters, the top, because the dumpsters are seven feet tall. The wall is six feet tall. His house is probably 15 foot elevated. We just want to have an opportunity to talk. Clil them to the door for 1, 2 o'clock. Now that's the fault of the venue. and we thought we would have that opportunity tonight to talk with whoever's building this loading dock and what are they gonna do to get rid of the trash crusher, the dumpsters, the lighting that should be shielded downward is that there's no shielding at all on those lights and those wall packs burn all night. So this is not the board for that. I understand it. Well, we just found that out. Well, you were just trying to get information and the applicant's not here to answer any of those. Thank you. We were kind of hoping he was and he was thinking I was. We hit the jackpot tonight with really so many... Who should we, how do we get in touch with or how do we find out what exactly is the plan? We absolutely have, we always encourage developers to reach out to the neighbors. We certainly have no issues setting up a meeting and we can certainly share it with you in our department. We got your phone numbers and addresses. I'll reach out to you as early as tomorrow and we will sit down and have a discussion. I do want to note that their plan for garbage is interior to their building. Perfect. Okay. So, and I also want to, I just want to note that they are a local business in Ferndale and they are very, I'm just saying they'll be very interested and I'm sure hearing your comments and we'll be more than happy to sit down and go further. It's a welcome addition to the neighborhood. Thank you. I have one comment, Mr. Henry. Sure. So, Andrea, for these residents, they're going to pay attention. Thanks so much. When we have a change of use in an occupancy, does it go to the- does it go to the board of trustees it will be going the board of trustees has already been in the planning commission it will come to the board of trustees um i believe excuse me excuse me miss sir we're talking about stuff you may want to listen to okay so i asked andrea director of planning a building if when we do a site plan or change of use of this business where does it go to get approval where they talk about the lighting the location of these in these accessory where does

  172. We absolutely have, we always encourage developers to reach out to the neighbors. We certainly have no issues setting up a meeting and we can certainly share it with you in our department. We got your phone numbers and addresses. I'll reach out to you as early as tomorrow and we will sit down and have a discussion. I do want to note that their plan for garbage is interior to their building. Perfect. Okay. So, and I also want to, I just want to note that they are a local business in Ferndale and they are very, I'm just saying they'll be very interested and I'm sure hearing your comments and we'll be more than happy to sit down and go further. It's a welcome addition to the neighborhood. Thank you. I have one comment, Mr. Henry. Sure. So, Andrea, for these residents, they're going to pay attention. Thanks so much. When we have a change of use in an occupancy, does it go to the- does it go to the board of trustees it will be going the board of trustees has already been in the planning commission it will come to the board of trustees um i believe excuse me excuse me miss sir we're talking about stuff you may want to listen to okay so i asked andrea director of planning a building if when we do a site plan or change of use of this business where does it go to get approval where they talk about the lighting the location of these in these accessory where does it all go it goes to the board of trustees and it did already go to the planning commission so i i'm taking a little off guard on a couple things tonight regarding people not being informed but it will be um there will still be a township board hearing and the intention obviously is that we would engage with those neighbors prior to going to township board so any your your concerns are addressed so then that'll be at the formal board they will not be able to get approval until the board of trustees not this board your elected board that has a meeting uh the second and fourth monday and then at that meeting you can voice your concerns talk to the developer and maybe any changes to the site plan based on some of these concerns can be made but again if you have questions you work with the planning department as well as the developer to help engage prior to that that way they're on the same page and it's a lot easier for them to get approval when they have neighbors that are excited and engaged okay so you're not far behind there's still ways for your voice to be heard Perfect. Just one comment I'd like to add to that. We had this lighting issue with the... God dang it, sorry. ...and they just blasted right into our house. Okay.

  173. to get approval where they talk about the lighting the location of these in these accessory where does it all go it goes to the board of trustees and it did already go to the planning commission so i i'm taking a little off guard on a couple things tonight regarding people not being informed but it will be um there will still be a township board hearing and the intention obviously is that we would engage with those neighbors prior to going to township board so any your your concerns are addressed so then that'll be at the formal board they will not be able to get approval until the board of trustees not this board your elected board that has a meeting uh the second and fourth monday and then at that meeting you can voice your concerns talk to the developer and maybe any changes to the site plan based on some of these concerns can be made but again if you have questions you work with the planning department as well as the developer to help engage prior to that that way they're on the same page and it's a lot easier for them to get approval when they have neighbors that are excited and engaged okay so you're not far behind there's still ways for your voice to be heard Perfect. Just one comment I'd like to add to that. We had this lighting issue with the... God dang it, sorry. ...and they just blasted right into our house. Okay. And we've got to still rule on this. We're running a meeting here, so... Thank you, guys. I've lost all control of the meeting, so you can help me if you can go out. You can talk about lighting out in the hall. All right. So, Mr. Chairman, based on the fact that the applicant is not here, I would like to table this for another meeting. We're either going to do that or we're going to... I don't want to... If we... I think we have to. Well, because if we deny it with no cause, they have to then re-notice... Why did they show up? What's the matter? Come on. So I don't necessarily want the applicant to have to pay additional fees and re-notice... Well, they will re-notice when it comes to the tabling. So are there additional fees for them if we do that? The town should beat that fee? I don't love that either. Well, I guess I'm unsure what the question is. They've made application. They paid a fee. They're not here. I would... We wouldn't necessarily charge them again if it was tabled. Are you talking about denying it? Well, if I deny it because I don't... Why is it... Why should the township pay for the noticing when the applicant didn't necessarily take the time for it? But we don't have anything to deny. Then he comes. I guess I can't speak to why they're not... I... I can't speak to why they're not here. Doesn't it? I mean... We would have the reason for denial. Is it... Denial without... I don't know... Without cause. Without prejudice. No, no, it's not just for me. But when it was very risky, sorry. It just has the idea, there… I definitely can't speak to, and I'll say, yes, the There's one in garnered. Ok, let's not speak to to theakkerawolüs. Okay, let's just come back to you. Hey man, to appeal.

  174. Okay. And we've got to still rule on this. We're running a meeting here, so... Thank you, guys. I've lost all control of the meeting, so you can help me if you can go out. You can talk about lighting out in the hall. All right. So, Mr. Chairman, based on the fact that the applicant is not here, I would like to table this for another meeting. We're either going to do that or we're going to... I don't want to... If we... I think we have to. Well, because if we deny it with no cause, they have to then re-notice... Why did they show up? What's the matter? Come on. So I don't necessarily want the applicant to have to pay additional fees and re-notice... Well, they will re-notice when it comes to the tabling. So are there additional fees for them if we do that? The town should beat that fee? I don't love that either. Well, I guess I'm unsure what the question is. They've made application. They paid a fee. They're not here. I would... We wouldn't necessarily charge them again if it was tabled. Are you talking about denying it? Well, if I deny it because I don't... Why is it... Why should the township pay for the noticing when the applicant didn't necessarily take the time for it? But we don't have anything to deny. Then he comes. I guess I can't speak to why they're not... I... I can't speak to why they're not here. Doesn't it? I mean... We would have the reason for denial. Is it... Denial without... I don't know... Without cause. Without prejudice. No, no, it's not just for me. But when it was very risky, sorry. It just has the idea, there… I definitely can't speak to, and I'll say, yes, the There's one in garnered. Ok, let's not speak to to theakkerawolüs. Okay, let's just come back to you. Hey man, to appeal. I've never come denying it since they didn't bother to show up, but really, geez, if it's that important way to show up. If they have to resubmit and reduce, that's on them, they didn't show up. I'm leaving it up to you, I just, I don't love the fact that us as taxpayers are going to have to pay for noticing because they didn't take the time to do it. That's the only reason for a denial versus a resident. But are we going to deny the other two that didn't show up? Yeah, that's part of the two. I think it should be tabled. I think we're a little tired and cranky. Sorry. We need to set you. I don't know how much the extra cost is for, you know, I think we just tabled it. I would like to make a motion that we are going to be tabling number 19 for a future meeting. Can we put them all together? Because there's no one here for the other two that we... I need a motion of support. All right, so we have a motion to table item 19-42931 Woodward. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Moved to table. So why don't we call item 20, 1050 East Square Lake Road, and then we can do the same with the others.

  175. I've never come denying it since they didn't bother to show up, but really, geez, if it's that important way to show up. If they have to resubmit and reduce, that's on them, they didn't show up. I'm leaving it up to you, I just, I don't love the fact that us as taxpayers are going to have to pay for noticing because they didn't take the time to do it. That's the only reason for a denial versus a resident. But are we going to deny the other two that didn't show up? Yeah, that's part of the two. I think it should be tabled. I think we're a little tired and cranky. Sorry. We need to set you. I don't know how much the extra cost is for, you know, I think we just tabled it. I would like to make a motion that we are going to be tabling number 19 for a future meeting. Can we put them all together? Because there's no one here for the other two that we... I need a motion of support. All right, so we have a motion to table item 19-42931 Woodward. All those in favor, say aye. Aye. Moved to table. So why don't we call item 20, 1050 East Square Lake Road, and then we can do the same with the others. Thank you. Tommy, you really are in a tough spot, so go right ahead. Well, we started this project 13 years ago, in 2013. Well, if we have a man from 16. Well, if you lose our WEA sport, you can create the service, for instance. Thank you. and Andrea probably remembers that the first meeting we had in this room the room was totally filled TV cameras were here so it's fitting that the last of maybe 10 12 meetings we've had on this project is to an empty audience so sorry a little punch drunk ran out of things to read and we're mostly mostly going associates 4351 Delamere Court where I look Michigan here requesting a variance to allow us to excuse me to place a generator at 20 feet rather than the required five feet from the building the five feet would be sort of too close for this kind of generator and would disrupt the sidewalks we're placing it in a

  176. Thank you. Tommy, you really are in a tough spot, so go right ahead. Well, we started this project 13 years ago, in 2013. Well, if we have a man from 16. Well, if you lose our WEA sport, you can create the service, for instance. Thank you. and Andrea probably remembers that the first meeting we had in this room the room was totally filled TV cameras were here so it's fitting that the last of maybe 10 12 meetings we've had on this project is to an empty audience so sorry a little punch drunk ran out of things to read and we're mostly mostly going associates 4351 Delamere Court where I look Michigan here requesting a variance to allow us to excuse me to place a generator at 20 feet rather than the required five feet from the building the five feet would be sort of too close for this kind of generator and would disrupt the sidewalks we're placing it in a existing landscape area we've modified the landscape plan to provide screening on all three sides the pictures I submitted show pictures from the site of the generator looking around you can't see anybody else see anybody nobody can see us so the generator will be 20 feet south of the meeting room building behind the building so southwest southwest okay all right and so you can't see it from the street oh no you can't see that you can barely see the building from the street yes precisely yeah okay I'm a neighbor so I mean I have no problem with that I mean I got generated myself all right let's open this in the public close the public hearing I've lived in my house for 40 years I have so mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion sure so in regards to the dimensional variance regarding the generator not being directly adjacent to

  177. this kind of generator and would disrupt the sidewalks we're placing it in a existing landscape area we've modified the landscape plan to provide screening on all three sides the pictures I submitted show pictures from the site of the generator looking around you can't see anybody else see anybody nobody can see us so the generator will be 20 feet south of the meeting room building behind the building so southwest southwest okay all right and so you can't see it from the street oh no you can't see that you can barely see the building from the street yes precisely yeah okay I'm a neighbor so I mean I have no problem with that I mean I got generated myself all right let's open this in the public close the public hearing I've lived in my house for 40 years I have so mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion sure so in regards to the dimensional variance regarding the generator not being directly adjacent to the building and being 20 feet away I move that the variance be approved as requested based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all the practical difficulty because compliance to the ordinance we unduly burdensome because of where some of these other improvements are parking sidewalk you would not be able to adequately screen it which would then make it unable for you to do that there's no injustice to join neighbors by the fact that we're gonna be screening it from three sides so nobody can see it and we've modified our landscape plan so that any evergreen were to be at the height of the product at installation unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated because of the fact again some of our hardscapes and where we're putting it is so that we can screen it and then this is not self created because of the fact of getting those hardscapes for the existing buildings if this is approved you Thank you. all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen screenings will be required so that it is screened 365 and all of those evergreen screenings will be at or exceed the height of the units at the time of installation. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Your rest is granted. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good evening. All right, so we have item seven,

  178. dimensional variance regarding the generator not being directly adjacent to the building and being 20 feet away I move that the variance be approved as requested based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all the practical difficulty because compliance to the ordinance we unduly burdensome because of where some of these other improvements are parking sidewalk you would not be able to adequately screen it which would then make it unable for you to do that there's no injustice to join neighbors by the fact that we're gonna be screening it from three sides so nobody can see it and we've modified our landscape plan so that any evergreen were to be at the height of the product at installation unique circumstances of the property have been demonstrated because of the fact again some of our hardscapes and where we're putting it is so that we can screen it and then this is not self created because of the fact of getting those hardscapes for the existing buildings if this is approved you Thank you. all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen screenings will be required so that it is screened 365 and all of those evergreen screenings will be at or exceed the height of the units at the time of installation. Support. So I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Your rest is granted. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good evening. All right, so we have item seven, which is a sports court. So we'd have to postpone that 3894 Peabody. Okay. Motion to postpone that. Support. Motion to support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That item is postponed. Now the next one, the Barron Drive is a generator adjacent to building. Do we want to try and present that so we don't have another, can we do that one? So it is adjacent and they're just, they're asking for permission because- Not immediately adjacent to the house. Not immediately adjacent. Oh, not immediately adjacent. And according to the documents, not immediately adjacent because of windows and makeup air for their generators, I mean, for their furnace and some of those things. So that is their hardship according to the documents provided. And they're still providing a 45, 60 foot, they're in a 100 foot setback to that adjacent neighbors. So they're pretty large setbacks. And we got screening. So they're all ready? they will be required to screen we didn't have any objections right what number was it oh wait り we did open for them number 10. number 10. yeah this is baron drive mr chairman i'd like to make

  179. All right, so we have item seven, which is a sports court. So we'd have to postpone that 3894 Peabody. Okay. Motion to postpone that. Support. Motion to support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? That item is postponed. Now the next one, the Barron Drive is a generator adjacent to building. Do we want to try and present that so we don't have another, can we do that one? So it is adjacent and they're just, they're asking for permission because- Not immediately adjacent to the house. Not immediately adjacent. Oh, not immediately adjacent. And according to the documents, not immediately adjacent because of windows and makeup air for their generators, I mean, for their furnace and some of those things. So that is their hardship according to the documents provided. And they're still providing a 45, 60 foot, they're in a 100 foot setback to that adjacent neighbors. So they're pretty large setbacks. And we got screening. So they're all ready? they will be required to screen we didn't have any objections right what number was it oh wait り we did open for them number 10. number 10. yeah this is baron drive mr chairman i'd like to make a motion well let me just just for the heck of it public hearing open public hearing closed okay so for the dimensional variance at 3278 baron drive i move that we approve the variance as requested regarding the fact the generator is going to be 10 feet from the property basic information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance particular the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of how the walkout is additional makeup air first furnace and windows would make it unsafe in any other location there is no justice to join the neighbors by the reason of we will enforce the fact that he is going to have to screen it at or to the height or exceed the height at plant plantings uh the height of the unit 365 so nobody can see it unique circumstances it's probably been demonstrated because of the fact of where the windows are and walkout basement this is not this is not self-created because of how the house was designed if this is approved all necessary permits must be made prior to installation and all must be made within one year and additional overheard screenings shall be required as part of his um application support so motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed request is granted do i have a motion to return no we have election

  180. we did open for them number 10. number 10. yeah this is baron drive mr chairman i'd like to make a motion well let me just just for the heck of it public hearing open public hearing closed okay so for the dimensional variance at 3278 baron drive i move that we approve the variance as requested regarding the fact the generator is going to be 10 feet from the property basic information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance particular the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of how the walkout is additional makeup air first furnace and windows would make it unsafe in any other location there is no justice to join the neighbors by the reason of we will enforce the fact that he is going to have to screen it at or to the height or exceed the height at plant plantings uh the height of the unit 365 so nobody can see it unique circumstances it's probably been demonstrated because of the fact of where the windows are and walkout basement this is not this is not self-created because of how the house was designed if this is approved all necessary permits must be made prior to installation and all must be made within one year and additional overheard screenings shall be required as part of his um application support so motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed request is granted do i have a motion to return no we have election of officers this january yeah let's keep so um we have to so it could be a single motion or i guess the board will have to do that there's two positions for officers uh vice chair certainly currently being served by jocelyn and chair brian henry so do you guys still would like to do that is that something that you guys would like to see after tonight why who would not want to keep doing yeah sure yeah i'll do it i don't know you guys would have me i would like to make a motion that we have our chair b brian henry and then our vice chair b jocelyn support yes motion and support all those in favor say aye aye any opposed all right thank you thank you yeah absolutely all right thank you for your continued support it was a 10-minute term right i didn't read the five points uh support if i live that long you will so all is in favor of the motion to adjourn say aye aye aye opposed we're adjourned