the-compact
Zoning Board Of Appeals Wednesday, October 22, 2025 · 124 min

Bloomfield Township Zoning Board of Appeals Meeting on October 21, 2025

Summary

The city council meeting discussed various variance requests, zoning regulations, and drainage concerns for construction projects, sports courts, and accessory structures.

  • Approved variance for generator installation at 5301 South Bradway Boulevard with conditions.
  • Granted permission for detached garage with variances at 3650 Green Tree Road.
  • Approved dimensional variance for home construction at 2705 Turtle Ridge Drive.
  • Discussed and approved sports court construction request with modifications.
  • Addressed drainage concerns and approved motion for sports court and fence at 959 West Hartsdale Road.

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Topics

Transcript

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  1. Good evening. It's 6.30. We'll get started by saying the Pledge of Allegiance, so please stand. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So let's take attendance. So noted. Thank you. And now I'll need a motion to approve the minutes or amend the minutes from September 30th, 2025. So moved. Support. So I have a motion in support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? The minutes are approved. So before I read the introduction, I'd like everyone in the audience to know that item 4, 6470, Gulfview, has been postponed to a future meeting. Item 7, 6450, Navajo Court, has been removed from the agenda. Item 12, tax ID number 19, 17, 276, 016, has been postponed to a future meeting. future meeting. And item 15, 1779, Heron Ridge, has also been postponed to a future meeting. So we won't be taking those up tonight. So as a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees per the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium, address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public.

  2. Item 7, 6450, Navajo Court, has been removed from the agenda. Item 12, tax ID number 19, 17, 276, 016, has been postponed to a future meeting. future meeting. And item 15, 1779, Heron Ridge, has also been postponed to a future meeting. So we won't be taking those up tonight. So as a brief introduction, the Zoning Board of Appeals is a seven-member quasi-judicial body appointed by the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees per the Michigan Zoning Enabling Act. Matters pending before the Zoning Board of Appeals are decided on a case-by-case basis. Any appeal of a decision made by the Zoning Board of Appeals is subject to circuit court review. Each case will be called separately in the order shown on tonight's agenda. There will be an opportunity for public comment at one point during each case. All persons wishing to comment will be asked to provide their name and address at the podium, address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the board. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. tonight, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. So let's call the first case. Item 1, 3350, Burning Bush Road. Is the applicant ready? Hey. Good evening. I'm Kevin Berry, and I live at 3350 Burning Bush Road. And can you tell us what your need is for a variance? We want to install a generator on the west side of our lot, and there's a 10-foot setback requirement,

  3. address your comments to the board and not the applicant or other members of the public. Given the number of appeals tonight, please make your comments brief. Comments by the Neighborhood Association will be considered as part of the factual information presented to the board, but those comments are not the determining factor for approval or denial. Please confine comments to the specific request before the board. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. tonight, an affirmative vote of at least four members present is required. We hope this provides a better understanding of what you can expect at tonight's meeting. So let's call the first case. Item 1, 3350, Burning Bush Road. Is the applicant ready? Hey. Good evening. I'm Kevin Berry, and I live at 3350 Burning Bush Road. And can you tell us what your need is for a variance? We want to install a generator on the west side of our lot, and there's a 10-foot setback requirement, and we would actually be nine feet from the property line. So the request is for a dimensional variance of a foot so we can put that in. We've talked to our neighbors, and they're fine with it, and we've also agreed to put in screening so that it won't be visible from the neighbor's side. And then from the front yard, we have quite a bit of vegetation that prevents any view of it as well. We did also talk to and got approval from Bloomfield Village Association, the manager, Kathy Weisenborn. And so we're here, I'm here, to try to get approval from this board to go forward. Thank you very much. Any questions from the board? Hello? Quick question. Thank you, I'm going to hand over to the board, and I'll try to... So, we're going to take a little bit more if you're going to answer that. condenser is still in that same location. So we don't have one there now. We don't have a generator yet. No, the AC condenser is also in that location. Yes. Yep. Any other questions from the board? So I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? I'll close public comment and bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Thank you. With regard to the appeal at

  4. and we would actually be nine feet from the property line. So the request is for a dimensional variance of a foot so we can put that in. We've talked to our neighbors, and they're fine with it, and we've also agreed to put in screening so that it won't be visible from the neighbor's side. And then from the front yard, we have quite a bit of vegetation that prevents any view of it as well. We did also talk to and got approval from Bloomfield Village Association, the manager, Kathy Weisenborn. And so we're here, I'm here, to try to get approval from this board to go forward. Thank you very much. Any questions from the board? Hello? Quick question. Thank you, I'm going to hand over to the board, and I'll try to... So, we're going to take a little bit more if you're going to answer that. condenser is still in that same location. So we don't have one there now. We don't have a generator yet. No, the AC condenser is also in that location. Yes. Yep. Any other questions from the board? So I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? I'll close public comment and bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Thank you. With regard to the appeal at 3350 Burning Bush Road for the dimensional variance required for the generator encroaching one foot into the required 10 foot side yard setback, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the size of the lot. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reasoning that it is completely surrounded by evergreen plantings. The unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that this is a little more narrow than other lots in the neighborhood and it's not self-created. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? ill full list? So there is no Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Calling next to Item 2, 3501 South Bradway Boulevard. Is the applicant ready? Very good.

  5. 3350 Burning Bush Road for the dimensional variance required for the generator encroaching one foot into the required 10 foot side yard setback, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the size of the lot. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reasoning that it is completely surrounded by evergreen plantings. The unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that this is a little more narrow than other lots in the neighborhood and it's not self-created. So if approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? ill full list? So there is no Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you very much. You're welcome. Calling next to Item 2, 3501 South Bradway Boulevard. Is the applicant ready? Very good. Good evening. Basically what he said. Okay. Yeah, it's very similar. It's good. We like that. We're looking for a one-foot variance as well. We made every effort to try to relocate the generator to a spot that would have been more conducive to the setback. However, because the rear of the house is fully, it's a full deck all the way across the back. The west side of the house is all driveway. And the east side is the only location that we actually can install it. Plus, all the utilities are there. Gas, electric, and such. We had, and we see, and we saw it, and we got approval from the Village Board. And we're here to appeal for a one-foot variance. Any questions from the board? Open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this item? Closed public hearing. Bring it back for a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Sure thing. In regards to the appeal at 5301 South Bradway Boulevard for the...

  6. Good evening. Basically what he said. Okay. Yeah, it's very similar. It's good. We like that. We're looking for a one-foot variance as well. We made every effort to try to relocate the generator to a spot that would have been more conducive to the setback. However, because the rear of the house is fully, it's a full deck all the way across the back. The west side of the house is all driveway. And the east side is the only location that we actually can install it. Plus, all the utilities are there. Gas, electric, and such. We had, and we see, and we saw it, and we got approval from the Village Board. And we're here to appeal for a one-foot variance. Any questions from the board? Open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on this item? Closed public hearing. Bring it back for a motion. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Sure thing. In regards to the appeal at 5301 South Bradway Boulevard for the... generator encroaching one feeding to require a 10-foot side yard setback I move the variance be approved as requested based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter the ordinance will be unduly burdensome because this is a more narrow area and there is no other place in the back of the side yard from this put this generator there's no injustice to you joining neighbors by the reason the fact that he's going to put completely screen this around so that they cannot see it unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated again you cannot put in the back or the side because the driveway as well as the deck this is not self created because you didn't build the house and put it you know that close to the lot line if this is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation additional evergreen evergreen plantings shall be required to screen the general from public view and must meet or exceed the height of generator at the time of planting support I have motion and supported any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you all you're welcome have a good evening you too mr. chairman I'm going to recuse myself in the next item okay I think that's wise so calling the next item three six five zero

  7. generator encroaching one feeding to require a 10-foot side yard setback I move the variance be approved as requested based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with strict letter the ordinance will be unduly burdensome because this is a more narrow area and there is no other place in the back of the side yard from this put this generator there's no injustice to you joining neighbors by the reason the fact that he's going to put completely screen this around so that they cannot see it unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated again you cannot put in the back or the side because the driveway as well as the deck this is not self created because you didn't build the house and put it you know that close to the lot line if this is approved application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to the installation additional evergreen evergreen plantings shall be required to screen the general from public view and must meet or exceed the height of generator at the time of planting support I have motion and supported any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed request is granted thank you all you're welcome have a good evening you too mr. chairman I'm going to recuse myself in the next item okay I think that's wise so calling the next item three six five zero green tree row item three good evening board members my name is Terry Kalinske I live at 3650 green tree road i am seeking permission requests and two-dimensional variance requests related to building a detached garage on our property no it's okay i love these pictures i haven't seen all these yet so the two-dimensional variance requests are related to one is that it is more than 50 percent of the total square foot like the living square footage of our home the second dimensional variance request is that we are requesting an additional two feet into the rear and side setbacks of our lot this will allow us just given the existing driveway and house and like garage location it will allow proper ingress and egress from the detached garage so that's why we're

  8. myself in the next item okay I think that's wise so calling the next item three six five zero green tree row item three good evening board members my name is Terry Kalinske I live at 3650 green tree road i am seeking permission requests and two-dimensional variance requests related to building a detached garage on our property no it's okay i love these pictures i haven't seen all these yet so the two-dimensional variance requests are related to one is that it is more than 50 percent of the total square foot like the living square footage of our home the second dimensional variance request is that we are requesting an additional two feet into the rear and side setbacks of our lot this will allow us just given the existing driveway and house and like garage location it will allow proper ingress and egress from the detached garage so that's why we're requesting that two feet additional to the side and to the rear we have spoken with all of our adjacent neighbors and we have their full support we have received permission from our hoa as well and they have sent an email saying that they have approved this um these pictures um i did want to just share that we did uh have there was a lot of planning that went into this attached garage lots of hours planning this including matching the existing brick of the home and also to have minimal impact of the existing landscaping that is in our yard I just want to thank you for your consideration for this approve or this request are these requests we are eager to continue to invest in our home thank you we have any questions from the board so where is your garage currently so in the black

  9. location it will allow proper ingress and egress from the detached garage so that's why we're requesting that two feet additional to the side and to the rear we have spoken with all of our adjacent neighbors and we have their full support we have received permission from our hoa as well and they have sent an email saying that they have approved this um these pictures um i did want to just share that we did uh have there was a lot of planning that went into this attached garage lots of hours planning this including matching the existing brick of the home and also to have minimal impact of the existing landscaping that is in our yard I just want to thank you for your consideration for this approve or this request are these requests we are eager to continue to invest in our home thank you we have any questions from the board so where is your garage currently so in the black outline of that house it's in the I guess the like bottom left corner in is that garage gonna stay yes okay so you have this in addition to the existing yes the reason that we're wanting and the attached garage I forgot to mention that is due to our business that we have this will fit a tractor and a trailer and a work truck and other things associated with that business okay any other questions from the board all right I'll open this to the public they would like to comment on this item Close public hearing. Bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Sure. So I'm going to put both of them together, the permission request and the dimensional variance. So for the permission request regarding the appeal at 3650 Green Tree Road for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as containing your equipment and household items is the right thing to do.

  10. any questions from the board so where is your garage currently so in the black outline of that house it's in the I guess the like bottom left corner in is that garage gonna stay yes okay so you have this in addition to the existing yes the reason that we're wanting and the attached garage I forgot to mention that is due to our business that we have this will fit a tractor and a trailer and a work truck and other things associated with that business okay any other questions from the board all right I'll open this to the public they would like to comment on this item Close public hearing. Bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion. Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. Sure. So I'm going to put both of them together, the permission request and the dimensional variance. So for the permission request regarding the appeal at 3650 Green Tree Road for the accessory structure, I move the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as containing your equipment and household items is the right thing to do. And then with regard to the dimensional variance required for the detached garage, encroaching two feet into the required 16-foot rear and side yard setbacks, and then additionally, the proposed garage will cause the total accessory space to exceed 50% of the ground floor area of the house. I move that this dimensional variance, hold on here, let me get the verbiage right. I move that the variance be approved as requested and based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict load and ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the, basically, the unique shape of the lot and the way the house is established on it. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that. it is consistent with our homes in the area and the garage is in an appropriate area and oriented on the lot properly unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that the existing floor plan has limitations and this is not self created so if approved all application for necessary permits

  11. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood as containing your equipment and household items is the right thing to do. And then with regard to the dimensional variance required for the detached garage, encroaching two feet into the required 16-foot rear and side yard setbacks, and then additionally, the proposed garage will cause the total accessory space to exceed 50% of the ground floor area of the house. I move that this dimensional variance, hold on here, let me get the verbiage right. I move that the variance be approved as requested and based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict load and ordinance would be unduly burdensome due to the, basically, the unique shape of the lot and the way the house is established on it. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by reason that. it is consistent with our homes in the area and the garage is in an appropriate area and oriented on the lot properly unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that the existing floor plan has limitations and this is not self created so if approved all application for necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be attained prior to construction and I am going to add that a single-family affidavit is required to be submitted to the township support I have motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you did a very nice job calling the next item item 4 nope that's from sure item 5 958 Harsdale 959 is the applicant here 959 Harsdale so I have a motion support to move this item to the end of the agenda all those in favor say aye aye any opposed that one's moved to the end of the agenda let's go go to item 6 to 705 Turtle Ridge

  12. this is not self created so if approved all application for necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be attained prior to construction and I am going to add that a single-family affidavit is required to be submitted to the township support I have motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you did a very nice job calling the next item item 4 nope that's from sure item 5 958 Harsdale 959 is the applicant here 959 Harsdale so I have a motion support to move this item to the end of the agenda all those in favor say aye aye any opposed that one's moved to the end of the agenda let's go go to item 6 to 705 Turtle Ridge Good evening. Good evening. I'm Jeff Dotson from J. William Construction. We are asking to impose into the natural feature setback to build a home on Turtle Ridge. We've done this many times in the past. And as you can see, the impact actually, the correction, there's asking for 21.7 feet, but it's 9.6 feet, not 21.7 feet as encroaching. So it's not as much as that calls for. You said you're encroaching only 9 feet? Yeah, so from the picture, it doesn't look like 21 feet. It's not 21, no. 21 feet, no. I just want to clarify, though, because we also call out the area in which the natural features may have installation of sod and landscaping, and I think that goes beyond. Oh, I see. Okay, so that's why we included the whole thing. Very good. Okay. So how far is the – so you're saying the structure is only 9.6 feet? Okay, and then the rest of the variances for landscaping? Sod, yeah. Okay.

  13. Good evening. Good evening. I'm Jeff Dotson from J. William Construction. We are asking to impose into the natural feature setback to build a home on Turtle Ridge. We've done this many times in the past. And as you can see, the impact actually, the correction, there's asking for 21.7 feet, but it's 9.6 feet, not 21.7 feet as encroaching. So it's not as much as that calls for. You said you're encroaching only 9 feet? Yeah, so from the picture, it doesn't look like 21 feet. It's not 21, no. 21 feet, no. I just want to clarify, though, because we also call out the area in which the natural features may have installation of sod and landscaping, and I think that goes beyond. Oh, I see. Okay, so that's why we included the whole thing. Very good. Okay. So how far is the – so you're saying the structure is only 9.6 feet? Okay, and then the rest of the variances for landscaping? Sod, yeah. Okay. Is this a temporary encroachment or a permanent encroachment? I mean, is it just the building? Permanent. It's the house. Okay. Yeah, the house and then the sod. Okay. And then in discussing this with the staff, evidently the wetlands, you know, in the – development has actually expanded a bit, which makes some of these last lots much closer than when the development was put in 20 years ago, which is an inch of an inch. So if you look at that aerial, you can kind of see the irregular shape to the wetlands as it's expanded. So we don't have an aerial from 20 years ago. But any other feedback from the staff on that? Just because that's part of the hardship here. No, I think that you stated it very accurately in terms of the change. So any other questions from the board on this? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? Close public hearing and bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion or questions? Anything anybody doesn't understand? Are you sodding the entire area there? Yeah. Okay. Because what's there now? What kind of terrain?

  14. Is this a temporary encroachment or a permanent encroachment? I mean, is it just the building? Permanent. It's the house. Okay. Yeah, the house and then the sod. Okay. And then in discussing this with the staff, evidently the wetlands, you know, in the – development has actually expanded a bit, which makes some of these last lots much closer than when the development was put in 20 years ago, which is an inch of an inch. So if you look at that aerial, you can kind of see the irregular shape to the wetlands as it's expanded. So we don't have an aerial from 20 years ago. But any other feedback from the staff on that? Just because that's part of the hardship here. No, I think that you stated it very accurately in terms of the change. So any other questions from the board on this? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? Close public hearing and bring it back to the board for discussion or a motion or questions? Anything anybody doesn't understand? Are you sodding the entire area there? Yeah. Okay. Because what's there now? What kind of terrain? It's like a marsh. Okay. That's what it looks like. It's spotty and it's covered by trees so there's not a lot of growth right there right now. So the reason you're putting this aside is so it would be usable space as opposed to the marsh. Potentially, yeah. Okay. What's the size of this home? It's about 3,500 square foot range. So is that smaller area, Andrea, that's the initial wetlands? Am I reading this correctly? I can't exactly say what the, that aerial is not intended to depict the wetlands. It's just an aerial. That's just kind of a. Fair enough. General idea. Got it. I guess we can do some discussion if we're going to discuss. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're discussing. So I want to go with just the improvement portion where the permanent structure of the house, when you actually look at the depth of the house without the garages, we're talking about 37 feet, right?

  15. Are you sodding the entire area there? Yeah. Okay. Because what's there now? What kind of terrain? It's like a marsh. Okay. That's what it looks like. It's spotty and it's covered by trees so there's not a lot of growth right there right now. So the reason you're putting this aside is so it would be usable space as opposed to the marsh. Potentially, yeah. Okay. What's the size of this home? It's about 3,500 square foot range. So is that smaller area, Andrea, that's the initial wetlands? Am I reading this correctly? I can't exactly say what the, that aerial is not intended to depict the wetlands. It's just an aerial. That's just kind of a. Fair enough. General idea. Got it. I guess we can do some discussion if we're going to discuss. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're discussing. So I want to go with just the improvement portion where the permanent structure of the house, when you actually look at the depth of the house without the garages, we're talking about 37 feet, right? The depth of the house without the two garages, then you add the garages to it, which are 24 feet, and they're basically just asking for a little cutout there. That's not an overly big house. When we talk about, especially Turtle Ridge, so I don't really have a problem with that portion. Because actually, when you look at the size of this house and what they're looking at, if you want to go back, Corey, to, well, actually, I don't know where it'd be, and that. There's a, in our packet, there's a depiction of the plot plan. That makes some sense to me. Now, completely removing almost the entire natural feature setback and putting sod, that's what I'm kind of having a tough time with. But understanding that the size of the home, again, it's not overly deep. And again, In a house of this size, you want to have garage of that size. I can understand that. It's just looking, I think, for some backyard space. There's not much backyard space. And we do have to construct it, so we're going to 10 to 12 feet of just driving machines around it. It's going to chew up the grass there as well. But you could put it back to the original native plantings as a temporary? Yeah, it's possible. Versus a permanent one. I put the house next door, and we did wildflower seeds, and it was really nice. So that might be something that, and this is a spec house as well, so the customer might have grass.

  16. when you actually look at the depth of the house without the garages, we're talking about 37 feet, right? The depth of the house without the two garages, then you add the garages to it, which are 24 feet, and they're basically just asking for a little cutout there. That's not an overly big house. When we talk about, especially Turtle Ridge, so I don't really have a problem with that portion. Because actually, when you look at the size of this house and what they're looking at, if you want to go back, Corey, to, well, actually, I don't know where it'd be, and that. There's a, in our packet, there's a depiction of the plot plan. That makes some sense to me. Now, completely removing almost the entire natural feature setback and putting sod, that's what I'm kind of having a tough time with. But understanding that the size of the home, again, it's not overly deep. And again, In a house of this size, you want to have garage of that size. I can understand that. It's just looking, I think, for some backyard space. There's not much backyard space. And we do have to construct it, so we're going to 10 to 12 feet of just driving machines around it. It's going to chew up the grass there as well. But you could put it back to the original native plantings as a temporary? Yeah, it's possible. Versus a permanent one. I put the house next door, and we did wildflower seeds, and it was really nice. So that might be something that, and this is a spec house as well, so the customer might have grass. That's a tough one, too. I agree with you. It's not a very large home. That's why I asked for the size of the home. Because they're in the backyard. And it's not in the backyard, but then again, natural future set factors. And how is it not self-created? I wish you wouldn't have told me it was a spec house. That makes it so much harder. Yeah. Well, I was going to say. So to give you some back story, I started Turtle Lake building homes in there in 2000. And this, we were doing homes. I built like six homes on the street. In fact, even the one next door. So, you know, like I said, the wetland moves back up and down. And so it's very difficult. These lots are very steep. They're very shallow. So, and when Dave Payne was the, we had a deal worked out with the development and the township. And there really wasn't an enforcement of the natural future setback. So, So, So, So, you know, to ask for this is really minor. I mean, the garages aren't that large. They're not all these large garages. These lots are very difficult to build on. It's about a 20-foot slope regardless, so it's a lot of hardships involved. Yeah, it's a tough site.

  17. So that might be something that, and this is a spec house as well, so the customer might have grass. That's a tough one, too. I agree with you. It's not a very large home. That's why I asked for the size of the home. Because they're in the backyard. And it's not in the backyard, but then again, natural future set factors. And how is it not self-created? I wish you wouldn't have told me it was a spec house. That makes it so much harder. Yeah. Well, I was going to say. So to give you some back story, I started Turtle Lake building homes in there in 2000. And this, we were doing homes. I built like six homes on the street. In fact, even the one next door. So, you know, like I said, the wetland moves back up and down. And so it's very difficult. These lots are very steep. They're very shallow. So, and when Dave Payne was the, we had a deal worked out with the development and the township. And there really wasn't an enforcement of the natural future setback. So, So, So, So, you know, to ask for this is really minor. I mean, the garages aren't that large. They're not all these large garages. These lots are very difficult to build on. It's about a 20-foot slope regardless, so it's a lot of hardships involved. Yeah, it's a tough site. How is the distance to the wetland area relative to the neighbors or the house next door? Say it again? How does it compare to the house next door in terms of the proximity toward the natural feature setback? You mean is the distance between the natural feature setback for the next door? No, how does it compare to the house next door in terms of is it closer to the natural feature setback compared to the house next door or is it the same or is it farther? The house next door to the right as you look at now is closer to the natural features. So the one you're building would technically be a little further away. Correct. But you said, because you built that house, the one next door, but you put native plantings behind the house? On the left-hand side in between our lots, the client didn't want to put grass, so we planted wildflower seeds. And I can appreciate these are tough lots. I really do, and you have a great issue. There are several lots over here. I'm just having a tough time negating the entire natural feature setback. So we're not trying to negotiate with you. I'm just trying to understand that. The other part I can appreciate and understand. Again, a 35-foot deep home is not very deep, especially for a ranch. So there's a lot of themes there, so we,'ve got torogate the dispositions. Okay.

  18. How is the distance to the wetland area relative to the neighbors or the house next door? Say it again? How does it compare to the house next door in terms of the proximity toward the natural feature setback? You mean is the distance between the natural feature setback for the next door? No, how does it compare to the house next door in terms of is it closer to the natural feature setback compared to the house next door or is it the same or is it farther? The house next door to the right as you look at now is closer to the natural features. So the one you're building would technically be a little further away. Correct. But you said, because you built that house, the one next door, but you put native plantings behind the house? On the left-hand side in between our lots, the client didn't want to put grass, so we planted wildflower seeds. And I can appreciate these are tough lots. I really do, and you have a great issue. There are several lots over here. I'm just having a tough time negating the entire natural feature setback. So we're not trying to negotiate with you. I'm just trying to understand that. The other part I can appreciate and understand. Again, a 35-foot deep home is not very deep, especially for a ranch. So there's a lot of themes there, so we,'ve got torogate the dispositions. Okay. It's not. I don't say this is. I tend to agree. You can see that it's, you know, pinching towards where your buildable envelope is. I appreciate that the front of the house is at its required setback. I guess I'm just wondering again about the, so I don't have any issues with the house, just the plantings back there. I mean, that's self-created, like how much lawn that you want to provide? Well, you know, it's a question of what are we actually saving. Like we have, we want to, we're going to put grass back as opposed to right now there, there is literally nothing. It's just lawn sitting. If you walk down there, I mean, I know you guys go and drive and see, if you walk down that back line, there's deer trail on there. I mean, there's really not a lot there. So whatever we do put there is going to improve what is there. And the line, the natural feature setback moves with the wetland, so it's really hard. I know, but nature's there. I mean, that's, what do you, you know. Well, grass or, or. I think some of the concern is that the natural feature setback is intended to be just that.

  19. It's not. I don't say this is. I tend to agree. You can see that it's, you know, pinching towards where your buildable envelope is. I appreciate that the front of the house is at its required setback. I guess I'm just wondering again about the, so I don't have any issues with the house, just the plantings back there. I mean, that's self-created, like how much lawn that you want to provide? Well, you know, it's a question of what are we actually saving. Like we have, we want to, we're going to put grass back as opposed to right now there, there is literally nothing. It's just lawn sitting. If you walk down there, I mean, I know you guys go and drive and see, if you walk down that back line, there's deer trail on there. I mean, there's really not a lot there. So whatever we do put there is going to improve what is there. And the line, the natural feature setback moves with the wetland, so it's really hard. I know, but nature's there. I mean, that's, what do you, you know. Well, grass or, or. I think some of the concern is that the natural feature setback is intended to be just that. And I think the concern when you put grass in, then there's other things associated with the maintenance of grass. So it kind of removes that, that cleansing natural features. So I think that's kind of what, what the board is concerned about is why. It. couldn't be a native species so I'm just trying to correct me if I'm wrong but that's sort of what I'm hearing is the idea is that that natural features is supposed to be more of a native as opposed to grass so I think that's what they're concerned in the area that you're encroaching into would you be open to replacing it with you know plantings that are would be native to a natural features because then I can see that that would truly be you know disturbing it at the most minimal level possible sure I agree I understand it's not grass but that the intention of the natural features setback is for those more indigenous plants that this is just a question among the board but is it feasible I mean I don't know if this is the right question but is it feasible to ask more of a variance from the front setback versus the rear setback you

  20. I think some of the concern is that the natural feature setback is intended to be just that. And I think the concern when you put grass in, then there's other things associated with the maintenance of grass. So it kind of removes that, that cleansing natural features. So I think that's kind of what, what the board is concerned about is why. It. couldn't be a native species so I'm just trying to correct me if I'm wrong but that's sort of what I'm hearing is the idea is that that natural features is supposed to be more of a native as opposed to grass so I think that's what they're concerned in the area that you're encroaching into would you be open to replacing it with you know plantings that are would be native to a natural features because then I can see that that would truly be you know disturbing it at the most minimal level possible sure I agree I understand it's not grass but that the intention of the natural features setback is for those more indigenous plants that this is just a question among the board but is it feasible I mean I don't know if this is the right question but is it feasible to ask more of a variance from the front setback versus the rear setback you see what I mean so it could the home be moved forward and given a variance yeah we went through this neighborhood they have certain restrictions and how far yeah it looks pretty strict about the HOA yeah he probably knows better than we do yeah we're not going closer I think this is easier for him to do whatever we need here yeah the house is the right spot it's just what once you get a plant behind the house so can you tell me exactly what's this what is the number you need for the house uh i would say we need what were we encroached um you said it was nine feet nine i mean we need another ten because we're going to drive a tractor on yeah that would be a temporary right because technically we play native planting yeah so for the permanent structure it is how many feet uh it's 9.3 9.3 well not with that but it'll be 9.3 for permanent and then it would be a temporary along to do the work in the natural features in the natural features which then he said he would agree to put plantings back that were native to the area if i'm instead of grass that's what he said he was willing to do well he's kind of got a glazed look at his eyes

  21. to ask more of a variance from the front setback versus the rear setback you see what I mean so it could the home be moved forward and given a variance yeah we went through this neighborhood they have certain restrictions and how far yeah it looks pretty strict about the HOA yeah he probably knows better than we do yeah we're not going closer I think this is easier for him to do whatever we need here yeah the house is the right spot it's just what once you get a plant behind the house so can you tell me exactly what's this what is the number you need for the house uh i would say we need what were we encroached um you said it was nine feet nine i mean we need another ten because we're going to drive a tractor on yeah that would be a temporary right because technically we play native planting yeah so for the permanent structure it is how many feet uh it's 9.3 9.3 well not with that but it'll be 9.3 for permanent and then it would be a temporary along to do the work in the natural features in the natural features which then he said he would agree to put plantings back that were native to the area if i'm instead of grass that's what he said he was willing to do well he's kind of got a glazed look at his eyes this is probably the 10th time i've been to the board to ask for the okay variants and yeah it takes longer for me to walk in the door than to walk out because when turtle lake um developer victor international they again had a deal prior to with the the township about the natural features and a symposium in it and they were giving granting the full natural feature setback in that because a lot of times customers might put in a pool or or some patio so they really didn't have much discussion regarded um but i mean i appreciate you know the concern um and if you look at what's there right now even grass would improve upon what's there right now i think that um i agree with you in a sense that it would improve upon the use of the property for the person living in the home um my concern i can't necessarily speak for the board but it sounds like my concern is that to try and minimize the disturbance to this natural features setback you're let's say we're 10 feet into it already for the structure and then you have another 15 feet of somehow trying to well 21.7 um to incorporate some outdoor living space potentially

  22. grass that's what he said he was willing to do well he's kind of got a glazed look at his eyes this is probably the 10th time i've been to the board to ask for the okay variants and yeah it takes longer for me to walk in the door than to walk out because when turtle lake um developer victor international they again had a deal prior to with the the township about the natural features and a symposium in it and they were giving granting the full natural feature setback in that because a lot of times customers might put in a pool or or some patio so they really didn't have much discussion regarded um but i mean i appreciate you know the concern um and if you look at what's there right now even grass would improve upon what's there right now i think that um i agree with you in a sense that it would improve upon the use of the property for the person living in the home um my concern i can't necessarily speak for the board but it sounds like my concern is that to try and minimize the disturbance to this natural features setback you're let's say we're 10 feet into it already for the structure and then you have another 15 feet of somehow trying to well 21.7 um to incorporate some outdoor living space potentially as well as restore the air the natural future setback to somewhat what it should be um and when when you say like ah it's like unusable and whatever finding a fine balance and being courteous of the um native plantings has been kind of a hot button within the town to preserve the natural future setback to preserve the wetlands on and on and on yeah i mean i have a thought we can you know approve the house and let you come back with some with a um a plantings plan for that area i would propose you probably need i'm an architect you probably need five feet of some kind of walking you know around the rest of the house but the rest of it if you could come with a plan that um unfortunately we are looking at these things more carefully for natural plantings and i just throw five feet, eight feet, but not the full 25. Yeah, well, I would probably say 10 feet away, like a walking distance away from the house, because if you notice, it's curved, it's at an angle. It doesn't just go straight across. So it bumps up in the middle, and then it drops back down.

  23. feet of somehow trying to well 21.7 um to incorporate some outdoor living space potentially as well as restore the air the natural future setback to somewhat what it should be um and when when you say like ah it's like unusable and whatever finding a fine balance and being courteous of the um native plantings has been kind of a hot button within the town to preserve the natural future setback to preserve the wetlands on and on and on yeah i mean i have a thought we can you know approve the house and let you come back with some with a um a plantings plan for that area i would propose you probably need i'm an architect you probably need five feet of some kind of walking you know around the rest of the house but the rest of it if you could come with a plan that um unfortunately we are looking at these things more carefully for natural plantings and i just throw five feet, eight feet, but not the full 25. Yeah, well, I would probably say 10 feet away, like a walking distance away from the house, because if you notice, it's curved, it's at an angle. It doesn't just go straight across. So it bumps up in the middle, and then it drops back down. So it's a... I don't know how you feel about coming back with a plan about where that area would be in the dimensions of, say, a lawn or whatever, and then some natural plantings. Yeah, unless you want to grant it where it's approved as is, but then we could only set grass 10 feet from the structure, and then from that point on, it would be maybe a wildflower seeding packet that's natural to natural features. I think that makes sense. But now we're honestly, he asked for 21.7. If we give him 9.7 plus 10 feet, we're literally arguing over two feet now. Well, five feet, actually, because 25 feet, right? So it's like 19. But your dimensional encroachment was 21.7, is what you asked for. No, no. Well, if you look at it, well, in that one area. The other area is we're not really encroaching hardly at all. So it'd be, you'd have 15 feet. So the left side of the house, you'd have 15 feet of... Yeah, that's the way I looked at it. Yeah. We're giving them 10. It's just one area where... There's 25-foot natural feature setback, and we're going to let them put grass. People haveemiocated?

  24. So it bumps up in the middle, and then it drops back down. So it's a... I don't know how you feel about coming back with a plan about where that area would be in the dimensions of, say, a lawn or whatever, and then some natural plantings. Yeah, unless you want to grant it where it's approved as is, but then we could only set grass 10 feet from the structure, and then from that point on, it would be maybe a wildflower seeding packet that's natural to natural features. I think that makes sense. But now we're honestly, he asked for 21.7. If we give him 9.7 plus 10 feet, we're literally arguing over two feet now. Well, five feet, actually, because 25 feet, right? So it's like 19. But your dimensional encroachment was 21.7, is what you asked for. No, no. Well, if you look at it, well, in that one area. The other area is we're not really encroaching hardly at all. So it'd be, you'd have 15 feet. So the left side of the house, you'd have 15 feet of... Yeah, that's the way I looked at it. Yeah. We're giving them 10. It's just one area where... There's 25-foot natural feature setback, and we're going to let them put grass. People haveemiocated? 10 feet away from the house, right? And that's what you said, then the rest is going to be natural planning. So remaining 15 feet. Correct. Isn't that, no? Did I misunderstand that? It's my math off? No, is that right? That's good. Yeah. Should we give them 10? Well, I'm just, that seems reasonable to me. I guess I'd rather not have to come back with the plan. I think we can go forward. I think the staff would appreciate if we made a decision. All right. I'll make a motion. Thank you. Okay. Give it a whirl. With respect to the appeal at 959 West Harsdale Road. No. No. Turtle Ridge. Turtle Ridge, 2705. I'm on the wrong one. What page are you on? I'm on the wrong page. The famous development. With respect to the appeal at 2705 Turtle Ridge Drive, I make a motion to approve the dimensional variance for the home to encroach the 9.2 feet tied to the drawings that you have presented into the natural feature setback. I move this to be approved based on the drawings submitted and the information presented.

  25. 10 feet away from the house, right? And that's what you said, then the rest is going to be natural planning. So remaining 15 feet. Correct. Isn't that, no? Did I misunderstand that? It's my math off? No, is that right? That's good. Yeah. Should we give them 10? Well, I'm just, that seems reasonable to me. I guess I'd rather not have to come back with the plan. I think we can go forward. I think the staff would appreciate if we made a decision. All right. I'll make a motion. Thank you. Okay. Give it a whirl. With respect to the appeal at 959 West Harsdale Road. No. No. Turtle Ridge. Turtle Ridge, 2705. I'm on the wrong one. What page are you on? I'm on the wrong page. The famous development. With respect to the appeal at 2705 Turtle Ridge Drive, I make a motion to approve the dimensional variance for the home to encroach the 9.2 feet tied to the drawings that you have presented into the natural feature setback. I move this to be approved based on the drawings submitted and the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty given the width of the depth of the lot, the modest size house and the need for garage in compliance with the front yard setback. And we'll do that. So, Okay. It would be unduly burdensome for any other situation on this house. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the association approval and the similarity to the adjacent houses. In regards to the dimensional variance from the natural setbacks feature for plantings in that area, I propose a maximum of 10 feet or a minimum of 15 feet from the natural feature setback be addressed with natural plantings. Should this motion be approved, application for all necessary permits be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to construction. Yep, that's just a motion. I just want to make sure that the discussion is about the temporary encroachment as well.

  26. and the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty given the width of the depth of the lot, the modest size house and the need for garage in compliance with the front yard setback. And we'll do that. So, Okay. It would be unduly burdensome for any other situation on this house. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by reason of the association approval and the similarity to the adjacent houses. In regards to the dimensional variance from the natural setbacks feature for plantings in that area, I propose a maximum of 10 feet or a minimum of 15 feet from the natural feature setback be addressed with natural plantings. Should this motion be approved, application for all necessary permits be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to construction. Yep, that's just a motion. I just want to make sure that the discussion is about the temporary encroachment as well. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. Oh, I mean, I can amend that we understand temporary encroachment during construction is to be permitted for the whole, yeah. 10 feet is what he asked for. In addition to the 9.3. For temporary? No, I thought. Wouldn't that be the 10 feet from the house that's going to be grass in the rest of the room? I'm going to back out of this conversation. I just want to make sure there was discussion. So let the board discuss. so I understand there may be temporary encroachment during construction that might be the 25 but the final installation would be no more than 15 feet correct or no closer than 15 feet to the natural features and I can add to the motion that temporary during construction but then it would have to be restored and then right that additional be restored so what is that that's part of the motion why don't you state but what the temporary encroachment can be and what the conditions are about restoration okay yep I amend my motion to approve up to the 25 feet for construction purposes but the fifth anything within 15 feet of the natural features is to be restored

  27. I just want to make sure that the discussion is about the temporary encroachment as well. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. Oh, I mean, I can amend that we understand temporary encroachment during construction is to be permitted for the whole, yeah. 10 feet is what he asked for. In addition to the 9.3. For temporary? No, I thought. Wouldn't that be the 10 feet from the house that's going to be grass in the rest of the room? I'm going to back out of this conversation. I just want to make sure there was discussion. So let the board discuss. so I understand there may be temporary encroachment during construction that might be the 25 but the final installation would be no more than 15 feet correct or no closer than 15 feet to the natural features and I can add to the motion that temporary during construction but then it would have to be restored and then right that additional be restored so what is that that's part of the motion why don't you state but what the temporary encroachment can be and what the conditions are about restoration okay yep I amend my motion to approve up to the 25 feet for construction purposes but the fifth anything within 15 feet of the natural features is to be restored per you know with natural planning planning support okay so we have a motion and support support do we have to support any discussion discussion of the motion so I just want to make sure I understand that you're saying ultimately it's a 10-foot encroachment temporarily it'll be up to 25 potentially while building and then the whole area gets for saying it gets restored but but yes permanent encroachment at 10 feet yes Any other discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Well, that's remarkable. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Your request, as modified, is approved. Thank you very much. Thank you for your patience. Calling item 8, 2437, Lost Treeway. Are we skipping 7? 7. Yes, 7 got postponed. 7 was postponed, yeah. Okay, sorry. All right, I'm the same thing.

  28. purposes but the fifth anything within 15 feet of the natural features is to be restored per you know with natural planning planning support okay so we have a motion and support support do we have to support any discussion discussion of the motion so I just want to make sure I understand that you're saying ultimately it's a 10-foot encroachment temporarily it'll be up to 25 potentially while building and then the whole area gets for saying it gets restored but but yes permanent encroachment at 10 feet yes Any other discussion? All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Well, that's remarkable. Congratulations. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Your request, as modified, is approved. Thank you very much. Thank you for your patience. Calling item 8, 2437, Lost Treeway. Are we skipping 7? 7. Yes, 7 got postponed. 7 was postponed, yeah. Okay, sorry. All right, I'm the same thing. Hello. So, this is a motion to add a fireplace and pergola to an existing back patio. The fireplace would be a vented gas fireplace. If it matters, we have all the neighbors have signed off on it. The association architect has signed off on it. Okay. Any questions from the board? We'll open this to public. Would you like to speak on this? Coal's public hearing and bring it back? Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. In regards to the permission request. With Ruth, the room Madam from the iron. There is no longer invisibility with the projet of that DOF. Thank you. at 2437 Lost Tree Lane for the pergola and gas fireplace. I move that the request be approved as cemented. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards

  29. All right, I'm the same thing. Hello. So, this is a motion to add a fireplace and pergola to an existing back patio. The fireplace would be a vented gas fireplace. If it matters, we have all the neighbors have signed off on it. The association architect has signed off on it. Okay. Any questions from the board? We'll open this to public. Would you like to speak on this? Coal's public hearing and bring it back? Mr. Chair, I'll make a motion. In regards to the permission request. With Ruth, the room Madam from the iron. There is no longer invisibility with the projet of that DOF. Thank you. at 2437 Lost Tree Lane for the pergola and gas fireplace. I move that the request be approved as cemented. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structures are appropriate to the neighborhood. This is a very common accessory structure in terms of pergolas and gas fireplaces. The accessory structure should not be objectionable to nearby residents for the fact that it took the time to actually get their approval and their input. So they have approved that as well. And with that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. And additional evergreen planting should be required to screen the pergola and gas fireplace from public view and at the time of installation for 12 months of the year. Oh, I'm sorry. And they shouldn't meet or exceed the height of the... Is there a fence? No. Okay. So they should be screened from public view. Yeah. Support. I have a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Thank you.

  30. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structures are appropriate to the neighborhood. This is a very common accessory structure in terms of pergolas and gas fireplaces. The accessory structure should not be objectionable to nearby residents for the fact that it took the time to actually get their approval and their input. So they have approved that as well. And with that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to construction. And additional evergreen planting should be required to screen the pergola and gas fireplace from public view and at the time of installation for 12 months of the year. Oh, I'm sorry. And they shouldn't meet or exceed the height of the... Is there a fence? No. Okay. So they should be screened from public view. Yeah. Support. I have a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. Thank you. That's calling item 95385 Longmeadow Road. Is the applicant ready? Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we move this to the end of the meeting. Support. So I have motioned support to move this item to the end of the meeting. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? This item is moved. So calling the next item, item 10, 5931 Blanford. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. My name is David Loftson, and I work for Terebreeze, the company that constructed the Kerr building. So I was kind of sent here last week. Quite honestly, the homeowner's not here. I think that we uploaded a file to you. And I believe we're seeking permission to have the structure remain in place. So it's sitting on top of like a patio? Sitting on top of a patio, exactly.

  31. That's calling item 95385 Longmeadow Road. Is the applicant ready? Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion that we move this to the end of the meeting. Support. So I have motioned support to move this item to the end of the meeting. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? This item is moved. So calling the next item, item 10, 5931 Blanford. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. My name is David Loftson, and I work for Terebreeze, the company that constructed the Kerr building. So I was kind of sent here last week. Quite honestly, the homeowner's not here. I think that we uploaded a file to you. And I believe we're seeking permission to have the structure remain in place. So it's sitting on top of like a patio? Sitting on top of a patio, exactly. I believe the plan is to erect foliage and our providers to block the visibility of neighbors. It is not interrupting thoroughfares or pedestrian walkways. It will be looking for security and our providers tosmize diligently and learn from a disturbed timing and not to correct them. Atted to the service in roughness or ny stub. I believe the association president has approved this as well do you know what the height is from the ground to the top of the purple I think it's just under 14 feet 13.8 okay any other questions of this the public they would like to comment on this side close public hearing we're back for discussion motion I can make a motion okay in regards to the peel at five nine three one Blanford for the accessory structure I'm going to cross be approved as submitted based on the information presented they have been to demonstrate the plan section 42 just seven six standards because the size of the structure is compatible with the rear yard of the home and it's also appropriate as there's structures like that in the neighborhood and it does meet the setbacks not too close to the rear or the sides if this is approved the the structure will have to be screened 365

  32. Sitting on top of a patio, exactly. I believe the plan is to erect foliage and our providers to block the visibility of neighbors. It is not interrupting thoroughfares or pedestrian walkways. It will be looking for security and our providers tosmize diligently and learn from a disturbed timing and not to correct them. Atted to the service in roughness or ny stub. I believe the association president has approved this as well do you know what the height is from the ground to the top of the purple I think it's just under 14 feet 13.8 okay any other questions of this the public they would like to comment on this side close public hearing we're back for discussion motion I can make a motion okay in regards to the peel at five nine three one Blanford for the accessory structure I'm going to cross be approved as submitted based on the information presented they have been to demonstrate the plan section 42 just seven six standards because the size of the structure is compatible with the rear yard of the home and it's also appropriate as there's structures like that in the neighborhood and it does meet the setbacks not too close to the rear or the sides if this is approved the the structure will have to be screened 365 days a year and installed that the vegetation should be installed at the height of the pergola when it is constructed or as it's already constructed and the application from necessary permits must be within five business days for the existing pergola support motion support any discussion I just I would like to make it very clear you're asking for forgiveness on something yes so the board is being very nice on this because they could just tell you to take it down but the plantings must meet or exceed the height of it at planting so if it's 14 feet 14 foot we should be 12 months of the year yeah so I understand you got here last minute you're taking those you know the beating here but so just advise your clients that that might be a checkbook thing but yeah in other words it's not to grow to 14 no no we're to install it yeah can I just ask isn't it eight point six feet tall but but not from the ground okay yeah I was asking for it thank you so and because of that it needs to be completely screened so that's the only discussion I have chairman any other discussion all those in favor

  33. or the sides if this is approved the the structure will have to be screened 365 days a year and installed that the vegetation should be installed at the height of the pergola when it is constructed or as it's already constructed and the application from necessary permits must be within five business days for the existing pergola support motion support any discussion I just I would like to make it very clear you're asking for forgiveness on something yes so the board is being very nice on this because they could just tell you to take it down but the plantings must meet or exceed the height of it at planting so if it's 14 feet 14 foot we should be 12 months of the year yeah so I understand you got here last minute you're taking those you know the beating here but so just advise your clients that that might be a checkbook thing but yeah in other words it's not to grow to 14 no no we're to install it yeah can I just ask isn't it eight point six feet tall but but not from the ground okay yeah I was asking for it thank you so and because of that it needs to be completely screened so that's the only discussion I have chairman any other discussion all those in favor of the motion say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted and we look forward to the screening yeah I'm sure he does too okay so calling the next item item 11 three three two nine Chestnut Road my name is Ali Elhamiri I'm the homeowner I want to apologize and ask for your forgiveness we made a mistake hiring a contractor who did not do the right thing and I have one landscape architect Matt Mosier and a wetland consultant, Brooks Williamson, who put a plan together to restore the wetland to its natural features. Okay. Do you have any details about the plan? Yeah. All the technical. Yeah, can you have that? Thank you, Matt Mosier, helping Ali out here with his project at 3329 Chestnut.

  34. that's the only discussion I have chairman any other discussion all those in favor of the motion say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted and we look forward to the screening yeah I'm sure he does too okay so calling the next item item 11 three three two nine Chestnut Road my name is Ali Elhamiri I'm the homeowner I want to apologize and ask for your forgiveness we made a mistake hiring a contractor who did not do the right thing and I have one landscape architect Matt Mosier and a wetland consultant, Brooks Williamson, who put a plan together to restore the wetland to its natural features. Okay. Do you have any details about the plan? Yeah. All the technical. Yeah, can you have that? Thank you, Matt Mosier, helping Ali out here with his project at 3329 Chestnut. He moved into the house and, from what I understand, hired a contractor that did some work down by the water. The EGLE was called and they gave him a violation, so he hired myself and Brooks Williamson to come up with a plan to restore the area. There were several meetings out on site with EGLE to come up with different shrubbery and components that would restore this back to where they were happy with. Subsequently, this plan was submitted to the township for review. This is a plan that the EGLE had supported. So basically, what the mix is, it's a mix of wet-footed shrubs that are rooted, as well as different seed mixes. To essentially do just that is to bring back what was... ... ... technically originally there. These mixes are based on our recommendations and recommendations in coordination with EGLE. So happy to answer any specific questions, but essentially a plan that is- What was the work that was done that

  35. Thank you, Matt Mosier, helping Ali out here with his project at 3329 Chestnut. He moved into the house and, from what I understand, hired a contractor that did some work down by the water. The EGLE was called and they gave him a violation, so he hired myself and Brooks Williamson to come up with a plan to restore the area. There were several meetings out on site with EGLE to come up with different shrubbery and components that would restore this back to where they were happy with. Subsequently, this plan was submitted to the township for review. This is a plan that the EGLE had supported. So basically, what the mix is, it's a mix of wet-footed shrubs that are rooted, as well as different seed mixes. To essentially do just that is to bring back what was... ... ... technically originally there. These mixes are based on our recommendations and recommendations in coordination with EGLE. So happy to answer any specific questions, but essentially a plan that is- What was the work that was done that disrupted this area? They, there was trees and shrubs that they basically destroyed. And it's not supposed to be touched. I was not involved at the time, but the contractor was paid and he disappeared. He's not in the country. He was deployed. Okay, but he wasn't installing stone or walkway or- No, there's no- There's no path or- It's all just dirt and- It looked like he was basically grading the lawn out and went too close to the water. Okay. That's what it came down to. Okay, so that makes more sense. Okay. Any other questions from the board? Open this to the public and I'd like to comment on this item. Close the public hearing and bring it back. I guess the only question I have is, Susan, this is an EGLE supported plan. Do they provide you with, like, approval of this plan or do they have to approve it based on us? Yeah, so they've, there's two approvals. There's the EGLE and then there's you guys. There are two approvals.

  36. plan that is- What was the work that was done that disrupted this area? They, there was trees and shrubs that they basically destroyed. And it's not supposed to be touched. I was not involved at the time, but the contractor was paid and he disappeared. He's not in the country. He was deployed. Okay, but he wasn't installing stone or walkway or- No, there's no- There's no path or- It's all just dirt and- It looked like he was basically grading the lawn out and went too close to the water. Okay. That's what it came down to. Okay, so that makes more sense. Okay. Any other questions from the board? Open this to the public and I'd like to comment on this item. Close the public hearing and bring it back. I guess the only question I have is, Susan, this is an EGLE supported plan. Do they provide you with, like, approval of this plan or do they have to approve it based on us? Yeah, so they've, there's two approvals. There's the EGLE and then there's you guys. There are two approvals. EGLE deals with everything below the ordinary high watermark. You guys are everything above it. So this plan that is coming before you had to be supported by them before we could bring it to you guys. And so that's what myself and Brooks were working through, is to get that support before it came before you. What Matt's referring to is the township's floodplain and wetland permit. That's what he's referring to. And so the ZBA approval is kind of part of that package, that the township won't release the wetland permit until they get approval from the ZBA for their encroachments. Thank you very much. With that, I'll make a motion. Okay. I think we're ready. Okay. I'd like to make a motion for the dimensional variance for the restoration work. At 3329 Chestnut Run Road. In regards to, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty. Because compliance with the stricclet of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome. Because of the presence of wetlands, if we prevent him from restoring him, they won't be restored.

  37. EGLE deals with everything below the ordinary high watermark. You guys are everything above it. So this plan that is coming before you had to be supported by them before we could bring it to you guys. And so that's what myself and Brooks were working through, is to get that support before it came before you. What Matt's referring to is the township's floodplain and wetland permit. That's what he's referring to. And so the ZBA approval is kind of part of that package, that the township won't release the wetland permit until they get approval from the ZBA for their encroachments. Thank you very much. With that, I'll make a motion. Okay. I think we're ready. Okay. I'd like to make a motion for the dimensional variance for the restoration work. At 3329 Chestnut Run Road. In regards to, I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty. Because compliance with the stricclet of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome. Because of the presence of wetlands, if we prevent him from restoring him, they won't be restored. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. I would imagine that the adjoining neighbors, as well as regular township communities, would love to have this wetland back restored to its original, or at least restored to its native. planting. Unique circumstances of the property begin because of the existing wetlands, and although this was self-created, we are moving to bring it back to its natural state. So with that said, if approved, the motion must include applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing work. Excuse me, Ms. Sir? Ms. Sir? It's hard for me to hear her based on your guys' conversation. Can you do me a favor? Okay, thank you so much. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. Thank you. I have a quick question. You guys are cruising through items tonight. I had five and nine. Did you guys already go through all those? Can I present them or no? We did. We moved it to the end. Oh, you did? Okay, I'll wait until the end. Okay. Okay.

  38. Because of the presence of wetlands, if we prevent him from restoring him, they won't be restored. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors. I would imagine that the adjoining neighbors, as well as regular township communities, would love to have this wetland back restored to its original, or at least restored to its native. planting. Unique circumstances of the property begin because of the existing wetlands, and although this was self-created, we are moving to bring it back to its natural state. So with that said, if approved, the motion must include applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing work. Excuse me, Ms. Sir? Ms. Sir? It's hard for me to hear her based on your guys' conversation. Can you do me a favor? Okay, thank you so much. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. Thank you. I have a quick question. You guys are cruising through items tonight. I had five and nine. Did you guys already go through all those? Can I present them or no? We did. We moved it to the end. Oh, you did? Okay, I'll wait until the end. Okay. Okay. We always cruise through the agenda. He knows. That's why he thought he would be okay. Item 13, 4062 overlay. Is the applicant ready? Hello. We're here to propose a sports court, tennis court, not necessarily a variance, but just talk about the dimensions of the sports court to get the recommended size of a the sports court um it was the slides yeah so we're requesting the 108 by 52 i'm sorry can we get your name and address for the record oh sure it's uh christopher bowati 4062 overlay lane it's a uh house that we're uh demoing down doing construction looking to build uh you know i have three children and we love tennis and uh trying to build a really nice backyard and nice home for everybody so we're moving to the area um so we made some changes if you want to talk about the changes we've made with

  39. We always cruise through the agenda. He knows. That's why he thought he would be okay. Item 13, 4062 overlay. Is the applicant ready? Hello. We're here to propose a sports court, tennis court, not necessarily a variance, but just talk about the dimensions of the sports court to get the recommended size of a the sports court um it was the slides yeah so we're requesting the 108 by 52 i'm sorry can we get your name and address for the record oh sure it's uh christopher bowati 4062 overlay lane it's a uh house that we're uh demoing down doing construction looking to build uh you know i have three children and we love tennis and uh trying to build a really nice backyard and nice home for everybody so we're moving to the area um so we made some changes if you want to talk about the changes we've made with um the variance and and things with our um layout we um are requesting basically uh the size of what an official size of a tennis court would be and um we removed the cabana from our plans to not really ask for any variance correct correct um um so in a perfect situation we would like the official 120 by 60 if if that would be allowed because that's what a true tennis court is at that size and we would have uh arborvitaes and replace all the trees and uh have a 10-foot fence around and we sent them the fence in, we also sent the information on the plane elevation and the topographic survey that we also added with the drainage. So there wasn't any issues with that. And everything would be in the back of the property, there's no lights, there's no basketball, very quiet, and it's all gonna be enclosed and pretty much none of the neighbors would see any of the court at all. So yeah, that's why we're here today.

  40. um so we made some changes if you want to talk about the changes we've made with um the variance and and things with our um layout we um are requesting basically uh the size of what an official size of a tennis court would be and um we removed the cabana from our plans to not really ask for any variance correct correct um um so in a perfect situation we would like the official 120 by 60 if if that would be allowed because that's what a true tennis court is at that size and we would have uh arborvitaes and replace all the trees and uh have a 10-foot fence around and we sent them the fence in, we also sent the information on the plane elevation and the topographic survey that we also added with the drainage. So there wasn't any issues with that. And everything would be in the back of the property, there's no lights, there's no basketball, very quiet, and it's all gonna be enclosed and pretty much none of the neighbors would see any of the court at all. So yeah, that's why we're here today. Yeah, so what we're looking at here, my name is Xander Bogarts, I'm the architect, what we're looking at here is the previous site plan that was approved in July of this year, we were before the board. We had asked for 120 by 60, and we had some back and forth and we went to 78 by 36, which is the plane area only, no overrun. So we agreed to do that and then we got back and I spoke with Chris and we said, no, that's not gonna work for the sport of tennis, we need a wider. So this, again, this site plan is the one from July, we've since modified it. The tennis court is a similar size, the cabana is gone, we don't have a cabana at all. And we've rotated the pool 90 degrees from this configuration that you see in front of you right now. So, um, I have the current one here that was submitted if, uh, if you want to- The tennis court is 500 meters long. Last week, we want to install that old 1955 chassis. So I found my earthquake in the house to get down is the middle wall 60s. I was hanging with the highubs 60 perيد over here, but I will see that the So as we mentioned consciously, we'll see this sort of technicality. You

  41. Yeah, so what we're looking at here, my name is Xander Bogarts, I'm the architect, what we're looking at here is the previous site plan that was approved in July of this year, we were before the board. We had asked for 120 by 60, and we had some back and forth and we went to 78 by 36, which is the plane area only, no overrun. So we agreed to do that and then we got back and I spoke with Chris and we said, no, that's not gonna work for the sport of tennis, we need a wider. So this, again, this site plan is the one from July, we've since modified it. The tennis court is a similar size, the cabana is gone, we don't have a cabana at all. And we've rotated the pool 90 degrees from this configuration that you see in front of you right now. So, um, I have the current one here that was submitted if, uh, if you want to- The tennis court is 500 meters long. Last week, we want to install that old 1955 chassis. So I found my earthquake in the house to get down is the middle wall 60s. I was hanging with the highubs 60 perيد over here, but I will see that the So as we mentioned consciously, we'll see this sort of technicality. You You can see here the setback, the 16-foot setback, 35-foot setback, and then again the 16. We're well within those setbacks. So as you all know, the sports court can go further into those setbacks, we're not even doing that, we're staying within the bounds. We're showing arborvitaes on three sides, those will be 10 feet tall. We would like a 10-foot netting between the arborvitaes and the sports court, but last time we were here, the 10-foot fence netting was not recommended, 6-foot was proposed. So we would prefer the 10-foot, but if 6-foot is what we'll get, we'll accept the 6-foot. And you can see here the cabana is gone and we've rotated the pool 90 degrees. We are under the allowable square footage by 19 square feet. I can get the actual numbers, but we're allowed 6,515 square feet and we're at 6,496, so just just under. So really this is a...

  42. You can see here the setback, the 16-foot setback, 35-foot setback, and then again the 16. We're well within those setbacks. So as you all know, the sports court can go further into those setbacks, we're not even doing that, we're staying within the bounds. We're showing arborvitaes on three sides, those will be 10 feet tall. We would like a 10-foot netting between the arborvitaes and the sports court, but last time we were here, the 10-foot fence netting was not recommended, 6-foot was proposed. So we would prefer the 10-foot, but if 6-foot is what we'll get, we'll accept the 6-foot. And you can see here the cabana is gone and we've rotated the pool 90 degrees. We are under the allowable square footage by 19 square feet. I can get the actual numbers, but we're allowed 6,515 square feet and we're at 6,496, so just just under. So really this is a... permission request we're not asking for any variances I'm sorry yes 10 foot would be the variance for the netting correct I'm sorry say it again when you say allowable surface area what are you referring to okay good question so I think that's a different ordinance so we don't review that in the township and I think it may be so sorry to interrupt you but surface area are you talking about the playing size of this court or surface area I'm not sure what I don't know you just said the total area you're under by 19 feet I think that's your question is what are you referring to in the ordinance it says you're allowed a certain percentage in the rear setback unless I've completely misunderstood you're allowed a certain percentage in the rear setback and then a different percentage between the rear setback and the rear of your house and you add that up and that's the it's the size of the that's part of our zoning ordinance no but thank you for the extra homework well then Andrea I'm confused because you and I spoke before about accessory structures

  43. permission request we're not asking for any variances I'm sorry yes 10 foot would be the variance for the netting correct I'm sorry say it again when you say allowable surface area what are you referring to okay good question so I think that's a different ordinance so we don't review that in the township and I think it may be so sorry to interrupt you but surface area are you talking about the playing size of this court or surface area I'm not sure what I don't know you just said the total area you're under by 19 feet I think that's your question is what are you referring to in the ordinance it says you're allowed a certain percentage in the rear setback unless I've completely misunderstood you're allowed a certain percentage in the rear setback and then a different percentage between the rear setback and the rear of your house and you add that up and that's the it's the size of the that's part of our zoning ordinance no but thank you for the extra homework well then Andrea I'm confused because you and I spoke before about accessory structures versus accessory uses and and how how would I know I'm not sure but all I know is what's before the board now is a permission request for a sports court in the ten-foot-high fence that's what's before the board right you you we want to have an offline conversation about another request that I don't feel as part of our ordinance we can but I think that right now I think the board understands the request is for the sports court and the fence we have any other questions from the board okay open this public anyone like to comment on this I don't close the public comment bring it back go ahead I want to thank you for some of the additional information you put in this packet versus the last one we approved it understanding the overruns and after doing some research understanding that basically you're asking with the new size you're proposing which is the one away by 52 it gives you 8 feet on each side for any running after tennis balls as well as 15 front and back so the point of what you're trying to what you're asking for and the rationale for it is the fact that if you're running after the ball it's not just the in bounds area yes it is as

  44. then Andrea I'm confused because you and I spoke before about accessory structures versus accessory uses and and how how would I know I'm not sure but all I know is what's before the board now is a permission request for a sports court in the ten-foot-high fence that's what's before the board right you you we want to have an offline conversation about another request that I don't feel as part of our ordinance we can but I think that right now I think the board understands the request is for the sports court and the fence we have any other questions from the board okay open this public anyone like to comment on this I don't close the public comment bring it back go ahead I want to thank you for some of the additional information you put in this packet versus the last one we approved it understanding the overruns and after doing some research understanding that basically you're asking with the new size you're proposing which is the one away by 52 it gives you 8 feet on each side for any running after tennis balls as well as 15 front and back so the point of what you're trying to what you're asking for and the rationale for it is the fact that if you're running after the ball it's not just the in bounds area yes it is as you're running for to play those you don't want to be going off of that surface in order to trip or fall or cause any harm to the players if I'm understand so I appreciate the additional information because that makes a lot more sense versus I want this size right and when I when we research it it doesn't show that so that's where it helps when we have the applicants here because then they can explain it's not just a want here's the need yeah and the need is I mean the full size of a court is is 120 I mean that's the official size and but I guess there was some pushback last time I wasn't here I was out of the country and then it didn't make quite much sense I'm like how did this go so wrong you know but so I think a lot of the pushback from the board is we originally started with sports courts that were like 30 by 50 or yeah basketball hoops yeah and then they just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger and we're trying to just understand some of these different needs and depending on if the applicants here or not or their architect they don't necessarily can convey the emotion of the sport they can speak to the ordinance or the impact of the neighbors or the total non-permeable square footage of the lot that's what they're really good at but not understanding the sports and yes so I mean the sport is a true sport a true basketball court is the is

  45. if you're running after the ball it's not just the in bounds area yes it is as you're running for to play those you don't want to be going off of that surface in order to trip or fall or cause any harm to the players if I'm understand so I appreciate the additional information because that makes a lot more sense versus I want this size right and when I when we research it it doesn't show that so that's where it helps when we have the applicants here because then they can explain it's not just a want here's the need yeah and the need is I mean the full size of a court is is 120 I mean that's the official size and but I guess there was some pushback last time I wasn't here I was out of the country and then it didn't make quite much sense I'm like how did this go so wrong you know but so I think a lot of the pushback from the board is we originally started with sports courts that were like 30 by 50 or yeah basketball hoops yeah and then they just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger and we're trying to just understand some of these different needs and depending on if the applicants here or not or their architect they don't necessarily can convey the emotion of the sport they can speak to the ordinance or the impact of the neighbors or the total non-permeable square footage of the lot that's what they're really good at but not understanding the sports and yes so I mean the sport is a true sport a true basketball court is the is the is the 120 by 80 I mean 120 by 60 that's that's that is if you go to any court in the country it's it's that's the size well I think sometimes people also have a concern about potential runoff when you have these large flat surfaces and with the traditional torrential range that we are getting I mean I can speak from only experience there's a lot of runoff and so sometimes when you have these large flat surfaces that's also a concern so that's when we did this we did topographic we paid this yeah he's it's a 1% slope and he says there would be no issues with this drainage that's he did a survey which I agree with you that is one of my big concerns is water runoff but after talking with Andrew again this is a brand new construction so you're gonna have a civil engineer you're gonna have people as part of the drainage plan but also when we get these permits as part of it our building department does look into this to make sure that they have a drainage plant or have some type of civil engineer who stamps it which is what this gentleman is he's your liability and he's worth that you pay him

  46. and yes so I mean the sport is a true sport a true basketball court is the is the is the 120 by 80 I mean 120 by 60 that's that's that is if you go to any court in the country it's it's that's the size well I think sometimes people also have a concern about potential runoff when you have these large flat surfaces and with the traditional torrential range that we are getting I mean I can speak from only experience there's a lot of runoff and so sometimes when you have these large flat surfaces that's also a concern so that's when we did this we did topographic we paid this yeah he's it's a 1% slope and he says there would be no issues with this drainage that's he did a survey which I agree with you that is one of my big concerns is water runoff but after talking with Andrew again this is a brand new construction so you're gonna have a civil engineer you're gonna have people as part of the drainage plan but also when we get these permits as part of it our building department does look into this to make sure that they have a drainage plant or have some type of civil engineer who stamps it which is what this gentleman is he's your liability and he's worth that you pay him and he he's your liability which is great yeah I'd say we were confused and I think you've you know kind of clarified it because I I looked this up you know as part of this agenda item the dimensions of the singles court are 78 by 27 doubles court is 78 by 36 and then there's a recommended buffer area which is what you've added which is necessary because the lines are not where everyone plays right so you got to stand behind it to serve there you got to go back for certain shots so this now makes sense any thoughts on the 10 foot screen yeah so typically I I think the 10 foot fence is too high and I support six so we have six I I'd say I'd go to seven but I I'm okay with six is this a fence or net you so it's a netting so I mean six foot I mean we'll be chasing a lot of balls I mean yeah I mean you know so I mean I'm assuming with the arbor vigors being 10

  47. what this gentleman is he's your liability and he's worth that you pay him and he he's your liability which is great yeah I'd say we were confused and I think you've you know kind of clarified it because I I looked this up you know as part of this agenda item the dimensions of the singles court are 78 by 27 doubles court is 78 by 36 and then there's a recommended buffer area which is what you've added which is necessary because the lines are not where everyone plays right so you got to stand behind it to serve there you got to go back for certain shots so this now makes sense any thoughts on the 10 foot screen yeah so typically I I think the 10 foot fence is too high and I support six so we have six I I'd say I'd go to seven but I I'm okay with six is this a fence or net you so it's a netting so I mean six foot I mean we'll be chasing a lot of balls I mean yeah I mean you know so I mean I'm assuming with the arbor vigors being 10 foot at least that will probably stop a lot of the balls from going into the yard but you kind of need 10 foot only because I mean six foot's like here they just fouls I mean they're gonna go all over the place you're planting 10 foot yeah the arbor vigors are going to be above that are going to be blocking everything so that's other screen so I don't have a problem with the 10 feet of its netting that's why I wanted to get the clarification I know what sports you do need and it's black it's the black netting so can we have a motion okay now in the buffer area and the netting mr. chair I'll make a motion sure that'd be great board is ready okay so with regard to the permission request at 4-0-6-2 overly lane for the I'm gonna call it a tennis court granted it is a sports court and it does not include the cabana so I'd like to make that clarification I move that the request be approved as modif

  48. mean yeah I mean you know so I mean I'm assuming with the arbor vigors being 10 foot at least that will probably stop a lot of the balls from going into the yard but you kind of need 10 foot only because I mean six foot's like here they just fouls I mean they're gonna go all over the place you're planting 10 foot yeah the arbor vigors are going to be above that are going to be blocking everything so that's other screen so I don't have a problem with the 10 feet of its netting that's why I wanted to get the clarification I know what sports you do need and it's black it's the black netting so can we have a motion okay now in the buffer area and the netting mr. chair I'll make a motion sure that'd be great board is ready okay so with regard to the permission request at 4-0-6-2 overly lane for the I'm gonna call it a tennis court granted it is a sports court and it does not include the cabana so I'd like to make that clarification I move that the request be approved as modif Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood, as there are many sports courts within Bloomfield Township. And I'd like to also note that the location of this accessory structure does not hinder or discourage the use of adjacent properties due to the fact that it will be screened with 10-foot tall evergreen plantings. With the dimensional variance, I move that it also be approved as presented because the fence being 10-feet tall exceeding the 4-foot height limit, I'm going to suggest that we stick with the 10-feet because it's going to be screened. So I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance is unduly burdensome based on the fact that this is reasonable use of the property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the fact that it is screened with evergreen plantings. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that it's actually a very good, perfect use of the property and this is not self-created.

  49. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-7.6 standards because the use of the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood, as there are many sports courts within Bloomfield Township. And I'd like to also note that the location of this accessory structure does not hinder or discourage the use of adjacent properties due to the fact that it will be screened with 10-foot tall evergreen plantings. With the dimensional variance, I move that it also be approved as presented because the fence being 10-feet tall exceeding the 4-foot height limit, I'm going to suggest that we stick with the 10-feet because it's going to be screened. So I move that the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all the standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter of the ordinance is unduly burdensome based on the fact that this is reasonable use of the property. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the fact that it is screened with evergreen plantings. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that it's actually a very good, perfect use of the property and this is not self-created. So, let me scroll down here. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made with... in one year all permits must be obtained prior to commencing construction and additional evergreen planting shall be required to screen the fence from public view and plantings must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of installation for 12 months of the year there there should be no elimination and the use is during daytime hours only I agree with that and the use should be within daytime hours only thank you so we have a motion support clarification okay any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you for coming back and helping us yeah my pleasure calling the next item six six six six Wing Lake Road good evening good evening Casa Malhu six six six Wing Lake Road seeking approval

  50. Unique circumstances with the property have been demonstrated given that it's actually a very good, perfect use of the property and this is not self-created. So, let me scroll down here. If approved, the motion must include application for all necessary permits to be made with... in one year all permits must be obtained prior to commencing construction and additional evergreen planting shall be required to screen the fence from public view and plantings must meet or exceed the height of the structure at the time of installation for 12 months of the year there there should be no elimination and the use is during daytime hours only I agree with that and the use should be within daytime hours only thank you so we have a motion support clarification okay any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you for coming back and helping us yeah my pleasure calling the next item six six six six Wing Lake Road good evening good evening Casa Malhu six six six Wing Lake Road seeking approval permission for a 12 by 20 greenhouse that will be approximately 12 feet in height it'll sit in the back in the rear yard within all the required setbacks and it'll match the architecture of the house and at the time of erection it will have all the So you won't be able to see this from any direction? No, we already have some of the green giant Aberavite in place that are at that height and it will just be a continuation of it. So from Sly Court is probably going to be the most view that you'll see of the greenhouse and that's where we're going to continue the the row. Okay. Any other questions from the board? Open this to the public for comment. Anyone like to comment? Close the public hearing. We have a comment for you.

  51. Wing Lake Road good evening good evening Casa Malhu six six six Wing Lake Road seeking approval permission for a 12 by 20 greenhouse that will be approximately 12 feet in height it'll sit in the back in the rear yard within all the required setbacks and it'll match the architecture of the house and at the time of erection it will have all the So you won't be able to see this from any direction? No, we already have some of the green giant Aberavite in place that are at that height and it will just be a continuation of it. So from Sly Court is probably going to be the most view that you'll see of the greenhouse and that's where we're going to continue the the row. Okay. Any other questions from the board? Open this to the public for comment. Anyone like to comment? Close the public hearing. We have a comment for you. Good evening, board. Good evening. Brian Ritter with Wing Lake Farms Association or Wing Lake Farms Inc. Resident 6800 Franklin Road. Actually, I used to own this house. I know the property quite well. I cleared the backyard. The only thing we did communicate with the homeowner regarding this matter and everything is within all of the setbacks. The only thing that we would ask is that it be properly screened. I think they are currentlyação eterna. They have a car that has, many people, several of them have come up with the scientific framework. The early動iseenラst SiRawks Commons Couperin. Airport Green Valley First, with CAF να Annる DNI anditor zurück. David公式可以 towards a negative report or less primarily from the Sly Court side. It appears as though they have already done some arborvitaes along the back line, which is the adjoining neighbor which half their house is visible to that property. So we would ask that the board approve this application on behalf of the homeowner.

  52. Good evening, board. Good evening. Brian Ritter with Wing Lake Farms Association or Wing Lake Farms Inc. Resident 6800 Franklin Road. Actually, I used to own this house. I know the property quite well. I cleared the backyard. The only thing we did communicate with the homeowner regarding this matter and everything is within all of the setbacks. The only thing that we would ask is that it be properly screened. I think they are currentlyação eterna. They have a car that has, many people, several of them have come up with the scientific framework. The early動iseenラst SiRawks Commons Couperin. Airport Green Valley First, with CAF να Annる DNI anditor zurück. David公式可以 towards a negative report or less primarily from the Sly Court side. It appears as though they have already done some arborvitaes along the back line, which is the adjoining neighbor which half their house is visible to that property. So we would ask that the board approve this application on behalf of the homeowner. Thank you. Thank you very much. Does anyone else like to speak on this matter? I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board. I'd like to make a motion. Sure. Mr. Chairman. In regards to the property at 4573 Kirkcaldy Road, I move that the... That's... Mrs. Wingman. 666. 666 Wingman. Say number 14. It's because we're starting half an hour early, I think, is the reason. We're skipping items and... Some of the agenda items are jumping. I'm looking at the right drawing. I'll start over. We're moving at lightning speed during the speedings, as Matt has told us, so we know that. I would like to make a motion to approve a permission request in regard to 666 Wing Lake for the accessory structure per the drawings attached to the landscape plan. Thank you, Matt. they be submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the size of the extract accessory structure is modest and compatible with the joining properties the use as a pot and shed or whatever is common in our township and

  53. Thank you. Thank you very much. Does anyone else like to speak on this matter? I'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board. I'd like to make a motion. Sure. Mr. Chairman. In regards to the property at 4573 Kirkcaldy Road, I move that the... That's... Mrs. Wingman. 666. 666 Wingman. Say number 14. It's because we're starting half an hour early, I think, is the reason. We're skipping items and... Some of the agenda items are jumping. I'm looking at the right drawing. I'll start over. We're moving at lightning speed during the speedings, as Matt has told us, so we know that. I would like to make a motion to approve a permission request in regard to 666 Wing Lake for the accessory structure per the drawings attached to the landscape plan. Thank you, Matt. they be submitted based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because the size of the extract accessory structure is modest and compatible with the joining properties the use as a pot and shed or whatever is common in our township and the location will not hinder or discourage adjacent use of property due to its location and the screening that has been suggested especially along slide court should this motion be approved application for all necessary permits meet must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to construction again the evergreen plantings particularly that your neighbors have mentioned to the height of the structure when it's installed support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you item 15 has been postponed so I'll call you item 16 good evening I'm Larry Goldwald I reside at 4573 perfect you

  54. properties the use as a pot and shed or whatever is common in our township and the location will not hinder or discourage adjacent use of property due to its location and the screening that has been suggested especially along slide court should this motion be approved application for all necessary permits meet must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to construction again the evergreen plantings particularly that your neighbors have mentioned to the height of the structure when it's installed support motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you item 15 has been postponed so I'll call you item 16 good evening I'm Larry Goldwald I reside at 4573 perfect you Calde with my fiancee who is reestablishers herself she grew up at this house so there's a little history there and how things were done and what we're trying to do to improve them what we're requesting is to have a pool shed that was moved on easement earlier on when we were doing remodeling the house one of the inspectors said hey do you do yourself a favor and move this be you know cuz and we'll redo your plan put your approved site and that pad for a future shed pool shed so hence this is where we're at and we're requesting that we approve that site for a shed all the setbacks are there it's more than 30 feet from the back it's probably almost 100 feet to the back lot line and there I there is one of the pictures I sent in or plots I put in for a screen as we look at it would be to the right side of the house that's where you would see probably the possible shed and we're gonna be planting there anyways but it can't be done right now it'd have to be done in the spring because of the size of

  55. Calde with my fiancee who is reestablishers herself she grew up at this house so there's a little history there and how things were done and what we're trying to do to improve them what we're requesting is to have a pool shed that was moved on easement earlier on when we were doing remodeling the house one of the inspectors said hey do you do yourself a favor and move this be you know cuz and we'll redo your plan put your approved site and that pad for a future shed pool shed so hence this is where we're at and we're requesting that we approve that site for a shed all the setbacks are there it's more than 30 feet from the back it's probably almost 100 feet to the back lot line and there I there is one of the pictures I sent in or plots I put in for a screen as we look at it would be to the right side of the house that's where you would see probably the possible shed and we're gonna be planting there anyways but it can't be done right now it'd have to be done in the spring because of the size of bushes in the frost line other than that I don't know what other recommendations you would have I know there is a shed that's there that was moved that was from her dad built back in 1960s that shed going to stay or go out that'll go that'll go unless unless we're allowed to keep it you know no better answer is the shed is going to go okay there you go that's a simple that uh yeah so that shed will be taken down as soon as we get the new one the reason for there you see the pool we have lawn furniture pool equipment that's what that's their store and you have a pad there now yes yes yes and it's been approved it has a rat wall around it and everything else Dean when we were doing the garage he came out and approved it sure any other questions openness to the public and I would like to comment on this item close the public hearing and bring it back mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion in regards to the appeal at 4573 Calde Road for the accessory structure I move the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all compliance with section 42 dash 76 standards because the size of the accessory the accessory structure is compatible with the adjoining properties

  56. can't be done right now it'd have to be done in the spring because of the size of bushes in the frost line other than that I don't know what other recommendations you would have I know there is a shed that's there that was moved that was from her dad built back in 1960s that shed going to stay or go out that'll go that'll go unless unless we're allowed to keep it you know no better answer is the shed is going to go okay there you go that's a simple that uh yeah so that shed will be taken down as soon as we get the new one the reason for there you see the pool we have lawn furniture pool equipment that's what that's their store and you have a pad there now yes yes yes and it's been approved it has a rat wall around it and everything else Dean when we were doing the garage he came out and approved it sure any other questions openness to the public and I would like to comment on this item close the public hearing and bring it back mr. chairman I'd like to make a motion in regards to the appeal at 4573 Calde Road for the accessory structure I move the request be approved as submitted based information presented the applicant did demonstrate all compliance with section 42 dash 76 standards because the size of the accessory the accessory structure is compatible with the adjoining properties based on the fact that several properties with pools have sheds for their pool equipment as well as their outdoor furniture and then the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood based on the fact that other neighbors have this if approved the motion must include and will include application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing the installation of the shed additional evergreen screenings shall be required to screen the shed from public view and plantings me to exceed the height of the structure at a time of installation for 12 months of the year i have a motion in support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you you have a good evening uh you too uh calling the next item item 17 1250 kensington row good evening um my name is page page comedo i'm the athletic director at academy of the sacred heart at 1250 kensington road i'm also joined by our head of school mr damien herman and we are seeking approval to install a 14-foot scoreboard on the southeast corner of our lower varsity athletic

  57. accessory the accessory structure is compatible with the adjoining properties based on the fact that several properties with pools have sheds for their pool equipment as well as their outdoor furniture and then the use of this accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood based on the fact that other neighbors have this if approved the motion must include and will include application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing the installation of the shed additional evergreen screenings shall be required to screen the shed from public view and plantings me to exceed the height of the structure at a time of installation for 12 months of the year i have a motion in support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted thank you you have a good evening uh you too uh calling the next item item 17 1250 kensington row good evening um my name is page page comedo i'm the athletic director at academy of the sacred heart at 1250 kensington road i'm also joined by our head of school mr damien herman and we are seeking approval to install a 14-foot scoreboard on the southeast corner of our lower varsity athletic field in addition to also installing a eight foot by seven feet six inch tall shed that would be on the south side of the athletic field set off from the 50 yard line the scoreboard does have an audio component to it so the purpose of that is to be able to play pre-game or to be able to have pre-game announcements um and that shed's main purpose is to house the audio amplifier equipment the shed will also be painted a dark evergreen color so it won't be that white that stark white color um upon recommendation from the township we did meet with our north and south side neighbors to address some of their concerns that have been brought to light throughout this process we are continuing to work with them and collaboration and partnership to see this project moving forward and so what were those concerns that were voiced mainly the screening component so the both structures will be screened so to height so that we will have 14 foot Arbor Vitae screening the scoreboard and then eight foot Arbor Vitae that will be screening the shed and the other concern was the sound so

  58. approval to install a 14-foot scoreboard on the southeast corner of our lower varsity athletic field in addition to also installing a eight foot by seven feet six inch tall shed that would be on the south side of the athletic field set off from the 50 yard line the scoreboard does have an audio component to it so the purpose of that is to be able to play pre-game or to be able to have pre-game announcements um and that shed's main purpose is to house the audio amplifier equipment the shed will also be painted a dark evergreen color so it won't be that white that stark white color um upon recommendation from the township we did meet with our north and south side neighbors to address some of their concerns that have been brought to light throughout this process we are continuing to work with them and collaboration and partnership to see this project moving forward and so what were those concerns that were voiced mainly the screening component so the both structures will be screened so to height so that we will have 14 foot Arbor Vitae screening the scoreboard and then eight foot Arbor Vitae that will be screening the shed and the other concern was the sound so there is a max decibel level with the sound equipment to 130 decibels obviously what we will not be playing it that loud we will keep within the township ordinance or the township recommendations for sound any other questions from the board I do so the Planning Commission previously had listened to some of the complaints or some of the concerns the neighbors had in particularly maintenance and then the time prior to the games and things like that that your audio equipment will be in use are there any parameters that you would suggest that would address those concerns specifically so we have been working with the neighbors in terms of addressing the maintenance issues and so those are we're already looking to remove trees and reinstall some trees to to height to take care of some of those those concerns As far as the playing of pre-game music or the announcing component, national anthem, again, I'm looking for the township's recommendation on the level at which you feel would be acceptable.

  59. Vitae that will be screening the shed and the other concern was the sound so there is a max decibel level with the sound equipment to 130 decibels obviously what we will not be playing it that loud we will keep within the township ordinance or the township recommendations for sound any other questions from the board I do so the Planning Commission previously had listened to some of the complaints or some of the concerns the neighbors had in particularly maintenance and then the time prior to the games and things like that that your audio equipment will be in use are there any parameters that you would suggest that would address those concerns specifically so we have been working with the neighbors in terms of addressing the maintenance issues and so those are we're already looking to remove trees and reinstall some trees to to height to take care of some of those those concerns As far as the playing of pre-game music or the announcing component, national anthem, again, I'm looking for the township's recommendation on the level at which you feel would be acceptable. We also, I mean, we don't have lights on the field. The latest that you could possibly hear sound would be at like 6 p.m. Right. And then, I mean, school gets out at, what, 2.30 or something like that? 2.45, 3.15, depending on the learning community. It would start approximately when? Typically, we start our games at around 4.30 or 5 o'clock. Okay, so maybe. So that would start about 45 minutes before. The pre-game announcements would be five minutes before the game. Okay. Are there games on the weekend as well? There could be. There could be. It would be typically a morning, Saturday morning game. But everything's earlier. It's really not going to be at the evening time, okay? Those usually start around 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning. Any other questions? There's no night games in late spring or early fall? Nothing that really exceeds past 6.30, 7 o'clock. Because you don't have lights on the field? No lights. We have no lights. There's no lights on the field. No. It's a grass field. No lights. There's no glow ball competition. Any other questions? I'll open this up.

  60. As far as the playing of pre-game music or the announcing component, national anthem, again, I'm looking for the township's recommendation on the level at which you feel would be acceptable. We also, I mean, we don't have lights on the field. The latest that you could possibly hear sound would be at like 6 p.m. Right. And then, I mean, school gets out at, what, 2.30 or something like that? 2.45, 3.15, depending on the learning community. It would start approximately when? Typically, we start our games at around 4.30 or 5 o'clock. Okay, so maybe. So that would start about 45 minutes before. The pre-game announcements would be five minutes before the game. Okay. Are there games on the weekend as well? There could be. There could be. It would be typically a morning, Saturday morning game. But everything's earlier. It's really not going to be at the evening time, okay? Those usually start around 10 or 11 o'clock in the morning. Any other questions? There's no night games in late spring or early fall? Nothing that really exceeds past 6.30, 7 o'clock. Because you don't have lights on the field? No lights. We have no lights. There's no lights on the field. No. It's a grass field. No lights. There's no glow ball competition. Any other questions? I'll open this up. to the public? Anyone like to comment on this? Okay, I'll close the public hearing. Motion? Discussion? Sure. Okay. Sure, I'll take it. Perfect. Fighting over the motion, that's great. So, this is a permission request. Okay, yep. So, in regards to the appeal, at 1250 Kensington Road, my son used to go there. Long time ago. I moved that. Were you part of the fundraiser for the scoreboard? No, well, he's, well, I don't want to tell you, he's 30 now. Oh, okay, all right. My son is 30 years old, so that was a long time. Now I just put how old I am out there. But anyway, so that was a long time ago, so no. But I did do a lot of fundraising back in the day. Okay, with that said, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because of the use of the accessory structures in terms of the scoreboard and the shed are appropriate for a school. They need a scoreboard for their games

  61. to the public? Anyone like to comment on this? Okay, I'll close the public hearing. Motion? Discussion? Sure. Okay. Sure, I'll take it. Perfect. Fighting over the motion, that's great. So, this is a permission request. Okay, yep. So, in regards to the appeal, at 1250 Kensington Road, my son used to go there. Long time ago. I moved that. Were you part of the fundraiser for the scoreboard? No, well, he's, well, I don't want to tell you, he's 30 now. Oh, okay, all right. My son is 30 years old, so that was a long time. Now I just put how old I am out there. But anyway, so that was a long time ago, so no. But I did do a lot of fundraising back in the day. Okay, with that said, I move that the request be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because of the use of the accessory structures in terms of the scoreboard and the shed are appropriate for a school. They need a scoreboard for their games and they'll need the shed for the audio equipment. The accessory should also be non-adjectional to nearby residents because it's going to be screened at the height of both structures and they are still working with the community. nieünde to make sure that they are going to abide by the noise ordinances as well. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen planting shall be required to screen the accessory structures from public view and the plantings must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of installation for 12 months of the year. Support. So I have a motion to support any discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations for your request to screen. Thank you. I appreciate it. Okay. You're welcome. Calling the next item item 18-550-Hewlett. Good evening. My name is Jordan Bideggeri. I'm the contractor working on the Verner Estates. This is a different one. What? This is a different Hewlett address. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're like two more up. Sorry. I saw Hewlett. I know. I know.

  62. in terms of the scoreboard and the shed are appropriate for a school. They need a scoreboard for their games and they'll need the shed for the audio equipment. The accessory should also be non-adjectional to nearby residents because it's going to be screened at the height of both structures and they are still working with the community. nieünde to make sure that they are going to abide by the noise ordinances as well. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to installation. Additional evergreen planting shall be required to screen the accessory structures from public view and the plantings must meet or exceed the height of the structures at the time of installation for 12 months of the year. Support. So I have a motion to support any discussion. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations for your request to screen. Thank you. I appreciate it. Okay. You're welcome. Calling the next item item 18-550-Hewlett. Good evening. My name is Jordan Bideggeri. I'm the contractor working on the Verner Estates. This is a different one. What? This is a different Hewlett address. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're like two more up. Sorry. I saw Hewlett. I know. I know. It's confusing. That threw me for a little bit of a loop. Everyone's jumping the gun on these agenda items. Yeah. It's because of the 6.30 start time. Well, good evening. Thanks, everybody. My name is Paul Dieters. I am with Metro Signs and Lighting 11444 Cults Avenue in Warren. Before you hear this evening, on behalf of the Operating Engineers Union, they're looking to replace a severely outdated sign that they've had the- for a number of years a wooden sign that is uh it's basically fallen apart uh that one that says 550 there and they had another real estate one adjacent to it but moving into this building uh and would like something to identify this to their membership here before you for a setback variance in essence with the setback the sign would basically have to be even with the parking lot there's a severe slope downward from the road there and very mature trees our only option would be to put it into that island that would be basically perpendicular to the road it's a very narrow island if there's any kind of snow plowing or anything uh be difficult to see plus it's so far

  63. It's confusing. That threw me for a little bit of a loop. Everyone's jumping the gun on these agenda items. Yeah. It's because of the 6.30 start time. Well, good evening. Thanks, everybody. My name is Paul Dieters. I am with Metro Signs and Lighting 11444 Cults Avenue in Warren. Before you hear this evening, on behalf of the Operating Engineers Union, they're looking to replace a severely outdated sign that they've had the- for a number of years a wooden sign that is uh it's basically fallen apart uh that one that says 550 there and they had another real estate one adjacent to it but moving into this building uh and would like something to identify this to their membership here before you for a setback variance in essence with the setback the sign would basically have to be even with the parking lot there's a severe slope downward from the road there and very mature trees our only option would be to put it into that island that would be basically perpendicular to the road it's a very narrow island if there's any kind of snow plowing or anything uh be difficult to see plus it's so far down this is at the end of a basically a dead end street with virtually no traffic at the far end so they're just hoping that uh instead of having to cut some a bunch of trees down to get this thing to match the setback that you'd grant uh some leniency for that okay any questions from the board is this going to be lit sign it's non-illuminated perfect i'll open this to the public and would like to comment on this item i'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board i'd love to make a motion that'd be great thank you in regards to the appeal at 550 hewlett drive for the dimensional variance you encroaching 22 feet into the required 25 foot setback I move the variance be approved as requested based information presented they did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of where the positioning is of the road easement as well as the setbacks would put it to where people couldn't even see it and or would not be able to maintain the parking lot appropriately there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of

  64. narrow island if there's any kind of snow plowing or anything uh be difficult to see plus it's so far down this is at the end of a basically a dead end street with virtually no traffic at the far end so they're just hoping that uh instead of having to cut some a bunch of trees down to get this thing to match the setback that you'd grant uh some leniency for that okay any questions from the board is this going to be lit sign it's non-illuminated perfect i'll open this to the public and would like to comment on this item i'll close the public hearing and bring it back to the board i'd love to make a motion that'd be great thank you in regards to the appeal at 550 hewlett drive for the dimensional variance you encroaching 22 feet into the required 25 foot setback I move the variance be approved as requested based information presented they did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because of where the positioning is of the road easement as well as the setbacks would put it to where people couldn't even see it and or would not be able to maintain the parking lot appropriately there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of first nobody here is complaining they're all the neighbors are gonna be commercial industrial so and then there's no illumination unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that we're trying to keep the trees we like trees here in Bloomfield so we're trying to minimize the impact of nature and then this is not self created because the road easement as well as the location of the parking lot in the island were not built by you if approved the application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing the installation second so I motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted very good thank you you're welcome calling item 19 2 4 0 5 South Telegraph terrific well sorry back again I want to have a different case here I'm on behalf of galling dealership mr. galling is here with me and matt godfrey the the gm of the dealership in case you have any questions of them but once again as you can see here they had a sign um that was back in the access road getting back to costco uh it was damaged and uh basically what they'd like to do is replace the

  65. appropriately there's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors by the reason of first nobody here is complaining they're all the neighbors are gonna be commercial industrial so and then there's no illumination unique circumstance of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that we're trying to keep the trees we like trees here in Bloomfield so we're trying to minimize the impact of nature and then this is not self created because the road easement as well as the location of the parking lot in the island were not built by you if approved the application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing the installation second so I motion and support any discussion all those in favor say aye aye any opposed congratulations your request is granted very good thank you you're welcome calling item 19 2 4 0 5 South Telegraph terrific well sorry back again I want to have a different case here I'm on behalf of galling dealership mr. galling is here with me and matt godfrey the the gm of the dealership in case you have any questions of them but once again as you can see here they had a sign um that was back in the access road getting back to costco uh it was damaged and uh basically what they'd like to do is replace the sign pretty much in the exact same spot uh as where where it had been previously if it were to move it back farther would be into a nice landscaping area that they have uh the other thing is it's a little bit different configuration uh the previous sign sat basically at ground level anytime we got any snow uh it was blocked uh in addition to that it was really tough with landscaping equipment this sign has a nice decorative base that goes with it um much more aesthetically pleasing it'll be a much nicer looking piece the actual identification is going down in size but just the way the township calculates the area it's it's just a hair larger than what the previous one was but that's really just due to the base of the pedestal that's going to get it up off of the ground so the sign's the same it's the pedestal that's bigger it's a little different configuration i i think in your packet you have there a picture in fact i have it if it's okay to approach the board with this oh we can turn on our overhead oh you can see it was very plain looking at you

  66. getting back to costco uh it was damaged and uh basically what they'd like to do is replace the sign pretty much in the exact same spot uh as where where it had been previously if it were to move it back farther would be into a nice landscaping area that they have uh the other thing is it's a little bit different configuration uh the previous sign sat basically at ground level anytime we got any snow uh it was blocked uh in addition to that it was really tough with landscaping equipment this sign has a nice decorative base that goes with it um much more aesthetically pleasing it'll be a much nicer looking piece the actual identification is going down in size but just the way the township calculates the area it's it's just a hair larger than what the previous one was but that's really just due to the base of the pedestal that's going to get it up off of the ground so the sign's the same it's the pedestal that's bigger it's a little different configuration i i think in your packet you have there a picture in fact i have it if it's okay to approach the board with this oh we can turn on our overhead oh you can see it was very plain looking at you just sat right at grade, what you have in the packet there is a much nicer looking modern sign, much more functional. Yeah, and more visible, yeah. Correct, okay. So I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on? That'd be great, thank you. In regards to the appeal at 2405 South Telegraph Road for the 40 foot ground sign encroaching 10 feet in the required 25 foot setback, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter, the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because not only would it not be visible to their business, it'd be pushing back into a mature landscaping that's been there for a while. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of this sign has already been here, been approved by us for several years. Unique circumstances of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that, again, they're trying to make sure this is far enough away so that snow plowing and any type of maintenance for the road will not be impeding the sign, as well as, again, the sign was already here. And this is not self-created due to the fact that, I hope you guys didn't damage your own sign to replace it, but somebody damages the sign and you're just replacing it to advertise for your business. Support.

  67. just sat right at grade, what you have in the packet there is a much nicer looking modern sign, much more functional. Yeah, and more visible, yeah. Correct, okay. So I'll open this to the public. Anyone like to comment on? That'd be great, thank you. In regards to the appeal at 2405 South Telegraph Road for the 40 foot ground sign encroaching 10 feet in the required 25 foot setback, I move the variance be approved as requested. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with a strict letter, the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because not only would it not be visible to their business, it'd be pushing back into a mature landscaping that's been there for a while. There's no injustice to adjoining neighbors by the reason of this sign has already been here, been approved by us for several years. Unique circumstances of this property have been demonstrated given the fact that, again, they're trying to make sure this is far enough away so that snow plowing and any type of maintenance for the road will not be impeding the sign, as well as, again, the sign was already here. And this is not self-created due to the fact that, I hope you guys didn't damage your own sign to replace it, but somebody damages the sign and you're just replacing it to advertise for your business. Support. Motion. With that, all applications for necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing installation. And then support. Support. So I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All's in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. the opposed. Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you very much. Go green. It's going to be a tough week. It's been a tough season so far. Good to see you. You have to put it out there. I think Michigan State was like a 21-point favorite three years ago and won, so you never know. Never lose home. Number 20. Yeah, you never know. We're praying that we can play well. You need a monsoon or some other. We need a snowstorm. Snowstorm. All right, calling item 20. 555, Hewlett. Sorry, I jumped the gun there. That's all right. It's understandable. Again, my name's Jordan Bidegary. I'm the contractor doing the Werner Estates water main replacement for the township currently, and we're requesting, well, we've been using this property that HRC owns for our temporary staging area to aid the project, and I guess I'm officially

  68. Motion. With that, all applications for necessary permits must be made within one year, and all permits must be obtained prior to commencing installation. And then support. Support. So I have a motion and support. Any discussion? All's in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. the opposed. Congratulations, your request is granted. Thank you very much. Go green. It's going to be a tough week. It's been a tough season so far. Good to see you. You have to put it out there. I think Michigan State was like a 21-point favorite three years ago and won, so you never know. Never lose home. Number 20. Yeah, you never know. We're praying that we can play well. You need a monsoon or some other. We need a snowstorm. Snowstorm. All right, calling item 20. 555, Hewlett. Sorry, I jumped the gun there. That's all right. It's understandable. Again, my name's Jordan Bidegary. I'm the contractor doing the Werner Estates water main replacement for the township currently, and we're requesting, well, we've been using this property that HRC owns for our temporary staging area to aid the project, and I guess I'm officially hoping to get your okay to continue to use it for the project. And the deadline for your request, you're going to be needed until? We should be there until December, and then the restoration would occur in the spring to plant the grass back. So, because we have to put an actual date in the motion, so it's December 31st? Good. Thank you. Yeah, it would be safe. Okay. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? A closed public hearing. Bring it back. All right, Mr. Chairman, I'd love to make a motion. Okay. In regards to the appeal at 555 Pullitt Drive for the, I'm not going to say accessory structure, but for the use of vacant land to be used for temporary outdoor storage or construction materials, I move the request to be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-76 standards because the use of this type of vacant property is appropriate to the neighborhood. Again, this is a commercial industrial area, and you're doing this so that you can continue to aid us

  69. that HRC owns for our temporary staging area to aid the project, and I guess I'm officially hoping to get your okay to continue to use it for the project. And the deadline for your request, you're going to be needed until? We should be there until December, and then the restoration would occur in the spring to plant the grass back. So, because we have to put an actual date in the motion, so it's December 31st? Good. Thank you. Yeah, it would be safe. Okay. Any other questions? Open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? A closed public hearing. Bring it back. All right, Mr. Chairman, I'd love to make a motion. Okay. In regards to the appeal at 555 Pullitt Drive for the, I'm not going to say accessory structure, but for the use of vacant land to be used for temporary outdoor storage or construction materials, I move the request to be approved as submitted. Based on information presented, the applicant did demonstrate compliance with Section 42-76 standards because the use of this type of vacant property is appropriate to the neighborhood. Again, this is a commercial industrial area, and you're doing this so that you can continue to aid us in making sure we do a great job on the burner of state water. Under budget, under time, right? Yes. Isn't that the goal? Yeah. It's part of this. No. So, obviously, that's what we're doing here. So, if the motion is approved, again, the temporary outdoor construction materials will be permitted until December 31st, and then after that, you'll have to restore it. Just to note, the restoration would occur, like, in April, like, as weather permits. Yeah. When weather permitting. Yes. So, we had a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. So, Matt, did you want to come and present your... two which I think is is it five and nine five and nine okay so our meetings now start at 630 I don't know if that is what three I'm like man in like six minutes they went through like ten no no I'm fast I'm not that fast I couldn't believe it anyway thank you for accommodating me Matt Mosier representing the homeowners at 959 West Harsdale fairly straightforward request this is for a sport court with a six-foot fence around it or a ball stop I should say a

  70. Again, this is a commercial industrial area, and you're doing this so that you can continue to aid us in making sure we do a great job on the burner of state water. Under budget, under time, right? Yes. Isn't that the goal? Yeah. It's part of this. No. So, obviously, that's what we're doing here. So, if the motion is approved, again, the temporary outdoor construction materials will be permitted until December 31st, and then after that, you'll have to restore it. Just to note, the restoration would occur, like, in April, like, as weather permits. Yeah. When weather permitting. Yes. So, we had a motion to support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Your request is granted. Thank you. So, Matt, did you want to come and present your... two which I think is is it five and nine five and nine okay so our meetings now start at 630 I don't know if that is what three I'm like man in like six minutes they went through like ten no no I'm fast I'm not that fast I couldn't believe it anyway thank you for accommodating me Matt Mosier representing the homeowners at 959 West Harsdale fairly straightforward request this is for a sport court with a six-foot fence around it or a ball stop I should say a pergola viewing area off to the side and a gas fire pit like always we made sure that the court complies with the setback requirements we have large evergreen trees being planned around the court some neighbors won't have to look at it and then from the fire pit same thing on the other side plenty of nice screening and like I said fairly straightforward so happy to answer any questions any questions from the board I'll open this to the public they would like to speak on this item good evening I'm Rhonda Schwartz I live at 560 5060 Pine Valley Road in Brooklyn Pilt Hills I've lived there for the last month years I wanted to speak about the opposition to the variance request for nine five nine West Hairsdale Road they are requesting a 30 foot 60 foot sports court the progola and the gas fire pit so there's a long-standing unresolved

  71. for a sport court with a six-foot fence around it or a ball stop I should say a pergola viewing area off to the side and a gas fire pit like always we made sure that the court complies with the setback requirements we have large evergreen trees being planned around the court some neighbors won't have to look at it and then from the fire pit same thing on the other side plenty of nice screening and like I said fairly straightforward so happy to answer any questions any questions from the board I'll open this to the public they would like to speak on this item good evening I'm Rhonda Schwartz I live at 560 5060 Pine Valley Road in Brooklyn Pilt Hills I've lived there for the last month years I wanted to speak about the opposition to the variance request for nine five nine West Hairsdale Road they are requesting a 30 foot 60 foot sports court the progola and the gas fire pit so there's a long-standing unresolved issue regarding drainage and runoff this project raises serious questions about stormwater runoff and damage and drainage issues at the townships been aware of for several years particularly find the development of nine five five West Hardsdale's Road Ken Nish and 955 Lone Pine Road and my husband Jeff Schwartz have raised these concerns with several township officials over the past two and a half years despite our ongoing communications or knowledge of the issue there is still no permanent solution in place and yet here we are again evaluating another development proposal that will add more surface and more runoff without addressing the underlying problems that already affect the neighborhood so what's happening to the ground during and after rainstorms Lone Pine Road create is creating dangerous driving conditions the floods forcing vehicles to swerve or slowly abruptly including township fire and police vehicles the runoff from Lone Pine Road flows directly into Ken Nish's property at nine five five Lone Pine Road overflows his pond and spills onto our front lawn turning it into a drainage basin this is not an occasional issue it happens every time it rains

  72. court the progola and the gas fire pit so there's a long-standing unresolved issue regarding drainage and runoff this project raises serious questions about stormwater runoff and damage and drainage issues at the townships been aware of for several years particularly find the development of nine five five West Hardsdale's Road Ken Nish and 955 Lone Pine Road and my husband Jeff Schwartz have raised these concerns with several township officials over the past two and a half years despite our ongoing communications or knowledge of the issue there is still no permanent solution in place and yet here we are again evaluating another development proposal that will add more surface and more runoff without addressing the underlying problems that already affect the neighborhood so what's happening to the ground during and after rainstorms Lone Pine Road create is creating dangerous driving conditions the floods forcing vehicles to swerve or slowly abruptly including township fire and police vehicles the runoff from Lone Pine Road flows directly into Ken Nish's property at nine five five Lone Pine Road overflows his pond and spills onto our front lawn turning it into a drainage basin this is not an occasional issue it happens every time it rains The source of this water is not just from Lone Pine, but that originates from the accumulated runoff from multiple properties, specifically the new big homes along Harsdale's road. There has been no clear or enforceable runoff migration plan presented for the proposed structure at Harsdale. Given what we already know and what the township already knows, it would be highly responsible to approve new variances without requiring that the existing infrastructure problems be resolved first. Zoning exists to preserve the livability, character, and safety of our neighborhoods, allowing oversized accessory structures with no plan for managing environmental impacts determines that mission. The township must not continue to approve new development in this corridor while residents bear the cost, literally and figuratively, of unchecked runoff and flooding. Let me also say that these proposed structures, especially the 1,800-foot, square-foot sports court, are disappropriate to the character and scale of the neighborhood. This is not a minor enhancement. It is a major recreational installation that would introduce increased runoff from the additional man-made concrete and structures impacting the surrounding homes.

  73. The source of this water is not just from Lone Pine, but that originates from the accumulated runoff from multiple properties, specifically the new big homes along Harsdale's road. There has been no clear or enforceable runoff migration plan presented for the proposed structure at Harsdale. Given what we already know and what the township already knows, it would be highly responsible to approve new variances without requiring that the existing infrastructure problems be resolved first. Zoning exists to preserve the livability, character, and safety of our neighborhoods, allowing oversized accessory structures with no plan for managing environmental impacts determines that mission. The township must not continue to approve new development in this corridor while residents bear the cost, literally and figuratively, of unchecked runoff and flooding. Let me also say that these proposed structures, especially the 1,800-foot, square-foot sports court, are disappropriate to the character and scale of the neighborhood. This is not a minor enhancement. It is a major recreational installation that would introduce increased runoff from the additional man-made concrete and structures impacting the surrounding homes. It is well within the board's authority to require appropriate environmental planning to uphold the standards set forth in the township's ordinance. I'm asking that the board deny the request very much. Thank you. for 959 West Harsdale Road at this time require a formal site-specific runoff immigration plan as part of any further consideration work with the township staff including mr. Almas and the engineering team to develop a comprehensive solution to the drainage issues that's affecting this area particularly the properties on Harsdale Road which is impacting safety on Lone Pine Road and my property on 5060 Pond Valley Road and Ken Nish's property on 955 Lone Pine Road thank you for your time and your consideration thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item I'll close public hearing and let the applicant respond drainage is certainly a big issue these days on all projects one thing that we've been doing actually is we've been working with the township on a enhanced civil engineered site plan for this

  74. It is a major recreational installation that would introduce increased runoff from the additional man-made concrete and structures impacting the surrounding homes. It is well within the board's authority to require appropriate environmental planning to uphold the standards set forth in the township's ordinance. I'm asking that the board deny the request very much. Thank you. for 959 West Harsdale Road at this time require a formal site-specific runoff immigration plan as part of any further consideration work with the township staff including mr. Almas and the engineering team to develop a comprehensive solution to the drainage issues that's affecting this area particularly the properties on Harsdale Road which is impacting safety on Lone Pine Road and my property on 5060 Pond Valley Road and Ken Nish's property on 955 Lone Pine Road thank you for your time and your consideration thank you very much is there anyone else would like to speak on this item I'll close public hearing and let the applicant respond drainage is certainly a big issue these days on all projects one thing that we've been doing actually is we've been working with the township on a enhanced civil engineered site plan for this particular site in that as you guys know when any kind of permit is submitted the township has a experts on their team that evaluate that site plan and ensure that the drainage patterns are sufficient for the improvements that are being proposed so I absolutely have compassion for for her concerns and they're certainly valid but on any of the projects that we they're all fully civil engineered for all the drainage. In this particular case that's where you see those dotted lines just past the court, that's a natural features buffer. So there is actually kind of like a stream area down there. So regardless if we don't do anything or have a court or not, the water's going there. A court of this size, I mean, is it going to flood the neighborhood? No, it's going to add a little bit more runoff, but nothing significant from my experience. But what I can tell you, and on any project we do, is there is a fully civil engineered plan that the township will thoroughly review,

  75. working with the township on a enhanced civil engineered site plan for this particular site in that as you guys know when any kind of permit is submitted the township has a experts on their team that evaluate that site plan and ensure that the drainage patterns are sufficient for the improvements that are being proposed so I absolutely have compassion for for her concerns and they're certainly valid but on any of the projects that we they're all fully civil engineered for all the drainage. In this particular case that's where you see those dotted lines just past the court, that's a natural features buffer. So there is actually kind of like a stream area down there. So regardless if we don't do anything or have a court or not, the water's going there. A court of this size, I mean, is it going to flood the neighborhood? No, it's going to add a little bit more runoff, but nothing significant from my experience. But what I can tell you, and on any project we do, is there is a fully civil engineered plan that the township will thoroughly review, and from my experience recently, will not issue a permit unless they feel that it's fully taking into account the additional runoff and the drainage patterns. So that's something that they have a stopgap with to make sure that these type of improvements hopefully don't cause more issue. Was the staff aware of any of the... Yeah, I can comment briefly on a recent email that I actually just received from Mr. Kenneth Nisch referring to, this has been an ongoing, from my understanding, it's been an ongoing issue with a lot of the residents in that area. And this was actually, has been occurring for quite a while. from my understanding. There were conversations between Patty and Chris regarding the flooding issue, which at that time there was a conversation with Oakland County regarding them having to clean out the drainage under Lone Pine. And Mr. Nitsch refers to that since that was mitigated, it's been somewhat mitigated. So this being brought up to our attention now, this was previously a drainage issue that has been occurring. There was conversations, as I stated,

  76. that the township will thoroughly review, and from my experience recently, will not issue a permit unless they feel that it's fully taking into account the additional runoff and the drainage patterns. So that's something that they have a stopgap with to make sure that these type of improvements hopefully don't cause more issue. Was the staff aware of any of the... Yeah, I can comment briefly on a recent email that I actually just received from Mr. Kenneth Nisch referring to, this has been an ongoing, from my understanding, it's been an ongoing issue with a lot of the residents in that area. And this was actually, has been occurring for quite a while. from my understanding. There were conversations between Patty and Chris regarding the flooding issue, which at that time there was a conversation with Oakland County regarding them having to clean out the drainage under Lone Pine. And Mr. Nitsch refers to that since that was mitigated, it's been somewhat mitigated. So this being brought up to our attention now, this was previously a drainage issue that has been occurring. There was conversations, as I stated, previously, it's now being brought to our attention that there's still some ongoing drainage issues in this area. And since Mr. Nitsch sent out this email this week, there has been another follow-up contact made with Oakland County Road Commission to help address some of the drainage concerns that are occurring within the roadway. I can't speak specifically in regards to other drainage concerns that are occurring or what's happening on this specific site. I can just respond to what I'm hearing from the applicant that they're addressing drainage concerns and that requirement for their permit submittal. But I do believe that based on my most recent email that there are still some ongoing concerns with multiple homes in the area. However, I'm not, I'm not prepared to talk about the impact of this specific site on the overall drainage. I was just asking you if you had knowledge. Yeah. But there is knowledge of a drainage issue. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. a very long answer that's okay i apologize that's important that's important background thank you okay any other questions of matt regarding the drainage or anything else about this um i guess just discussion from the board um i brought this up with andrea several times about

  77. previously, it's now being brought to our attention that there's still some ongoing drainage issues in this area. And since Mr. Nitsch sent out this email this week, there has been another follow-up contact made with Oakland County Road Commission to help address some of the drainage concerns that are occurring within the roadway. I can't speak specifically in regards to other drainage concerns that are occurring or what's happening on this specific site. I can just respond to what I'm hearing from the applicant that they're addressing drainage concerns and that requirement for their permit submittal. But I do believe that based on my most recent email that there are still some ongoing concerns with multiple homes in the area. However, I'm not, I'm not prepared to talk about the impact of this specific site on the overall drainage. I was just asking you if you had knowledge. Yeah. But there is knowledge of a drainage issue. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. a very long answer that's okay i apologize that's important that's important background thank you okay any other questions of matt regarding the drainage or anything else about this um i guess just discussion from the board um i brought this up with andrea several times about water mitigation and water runoff and as the applicant has stated as well as andrea has confirmed that they do have to get civil engineering or a survey on file to do stormwater management so when some of these plans were put together and some of this was done these were 40 and 50 years ago so now they have to be brought up to new codes and again while their applicant will have to hire their own civil engineer it is then reviewed by ours so there is a vetting process to ensure that not only the right experts are looking at it but we are adhering to the standards of today not 50 years ago so um in theory based on our more stringent standards um some of these sites will actually create more improvement because there are um mitigation techniques that they have to now adhere to that they didn't 60 years ago so um that has always been my concern with these so i'm glad you brought this up it's also a new site so it also has a civil engineer part of the new site as well as a site plan and plot plan and adding this to it will be required as well which you know as well as andrea and i have talked about and the township has gotten really good about getting more stringent on dealing with these water issues because to your point they are a big issue um and i'm just

  78. um i guess just discussion from the board um i brought this up with andrea several times about water mitigation and water runoff and as the applicant has stated as well as andrea has confirmed that they do have to get civil engineering or a survey on file to do stormwater management so when some of these plans were put together and some of this was done these were 40 and 50 years ago so now they have to be brought up to new codes and again while their applicant will have to hire their own civil engineer it is then reviewed by ours so there is a vetting process to ensure that not only the right experts are looking at it but we are adhering to the standards of today not 50 years ago so um in theory based on our more stringent standards um some of these sites will actually create more improvement because there are um mitigation techniques that they have to now adhere to that they didn't 60 years ago so um that has always been my concern with these so i'm glad you brought this up it's also a new site so it also has a civil engineer part of the new site as well as a site plan and plot plan and adding this to it will be required as well which you know as well as andrea and i have talked about and the township has gotten really good about getting more stringent on dealing with these water issues because to your point they are a big issue um and i'm just in the recent reviews fortunately we have a lot of projects here that they've really been watching that which is which is a good thing right and uh so so anyway you know we can only do as much as we can do which is you know hire professionals to do a full engineered site plan the township has their own professionals that review it and uh you know to your point um some of these sites are probably being improved while others are a problem but we always try to make an improvement on the jobs that we're working on so again i always go back to the experts right i'm not a civil engineer so i can't speak to it that's why we hire experts and require them to come up with the application so um my biggest complaint on this is i don't think the screening is adequate to be quite honest like even on your screening plan like i don't think there's enough screening to adequately screen this from all sides based on we're happy to add whatever and i know the inspectors are good at that now too i just want to make sure because obviously any any trees we add help soak up any of the water which helps mitigate some of that issue but it also helps with um some of the noise that some of the neighbors have been talking about well i mean i'm glad that you shared the information i'm glad that you're sensitive to it and i'm also very compassionate about what you you shared because the and i'm very very sensitive to water runoff because of all of

  79. in the recent reviews fortunately we have a lot of projects here that they've really been watching that which is which is a good thing right and uh so so anyway you know we can only do as much as we can do which is you know hire professionals to do a full engineered site plan the township has their own professionals that review it and uh you know to your point um some of these sites are probably being improved while others are a problem but we always try to make an improvement on the jobs that we're working on so again i always go back to the experts right i'm not a civil engineer so i can't speak to it that's why we hire experts and require them to come up with the application so um my biggest complaint on this is i don't think the screening is adequate to be quite honest like even on your screening plan like i don't think there's enough screening to adequately screen this from all sides based on we're happy to add whatever and i know the inspectors are good at that now too i just want to make sure because obviously any any trees we add help soak up any of the water which helps mitigate some of that issue but it also helps with um some of the noise that some of the neighbors have been talking about well i mean i'm glad that you shared the information i'm glad that you're sensitive to it and i'm also very compassionate about what you you shared because the and i'm very very sensitive to water runoff because of all of these flat surfaces these really large homes that are being built um and then we're also getting a lot more rain i mean we have droughts but then when it rains it pulls and we see lots of floods and so I just want to just make sure that we are very sensitive to this one runoff issue and so the more we talk about it and more we're sensitive to it I think the better so I just wanted to add that as well because that is a major concern I've seen it with my own property and I've seen it with others and this is something that comes up very often and we also with that Andrea had mentioned that this is something that is known so I'm glad you're looking into it and hopefully if and I'll just put this out there as well that even after we have some engineers look at it after it's been mitigated that's been permitted that if there is an issue after that there is some kind of follow-up on that as well and I think that's fair to our community that you know a lot of times we think we're mitigating but if we continue to see the drain on drainage issues or runoff issues that haven't been

  80. about what you you shared because the and i'm very very sensitive to water runoff because of all of these flat surfaces these really large homes that are being built um and then we're also getting a lot more rain i mean we have droughts but then when it rains it pulls and we see lots of floods and so I just want to just make sure that we are very sensitive to this one runoff issue and so the more we talk about it and more we're sensitive to it I think the better so I just wanted to add that as well because that is a major concern I've seen it with my own property and I've seen it with others and this is something that comes up very often and we also with that Andrea had mentioned that this is something that is known so I'm glad you're looking into it and hopefully if and I'll just put this out there as well that even after we have some engineers look at it after it's been mitigated that's been permitted that if there is an issue after that there is some kind of follow-up on that as well and I think that's fair to our community that you know a lot of times we think we're mitigating but if we continue to see the drain on drainage issues or runoff issues that haven't been mitigated or maybe we didn't anticipate that we have some kind of follow-up or follow through on that does anybody have a problem with the six-foot fence versus on the fence on this this is a fencer netting this is just sport court netting so do we have a motion I think we're ready you you Who wants it? Jump on it. I'll make a motion. Okay, great. After I just made my speech. Yeah, I think you should. All right. So I'll start with the permission request first in regards to the appeal at 959 West Hartsdale Road for the accessory structure of a pergola, gas, fire, pit, and sports court. I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because of the use of the accessory structures appropriate for the neighborhood. Again, these are very common accessory structures. And the accessory structure shall not be objectionable to nearby residents because they will be adequately screened as well as they will also be taken in consideration

  81. to see the drain on drainage issues or runoff issues that haven't been mitigated or maybe we didn't anticipate that we have some kind of follow-up or follow through on that does anybody have a problem with the six-foot fence versus on the fence on this this is a fencer netting this is just sport court netting so do we have a motion I think we're ready you you Who wants it? Jump on it. I'll make a motion. Okay, great. After I just made my speech. Yeah, I think you should. All right. So I'll start with the permission request first in regards to the appeal at 959 West Hartsdale Road for the accessory structure of a pergola, gas, fire, pit, and sports court. I move that the request be approved as submitted based on the information presented. The applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42-7.6 standards because of the use of the accessory structures appropriate for the neighborhood. Again, these are very common accessory structures. And the accessory structure shall not be objectionable to nearby residents because they will be adequately screened as well as they will also be taken in consideration any drainage or runoff issues through civil engineering and permits. In terms of the dimensional variance at the same location for the six-foot tall fence exceeding the requirement of four feet, I also move that that be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because any netting fence shorter than six feet tall would prevent reasonable use of the sports court. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be also screened. ianee circumstance ianee circumstance Thank you. with the property with the existing floor plan where the sports courts will be located. This is appropriate for a six-foot netting fence, and because of that, it is not self-created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for unnecessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to commencing installation. Additional Evergreen planting shall be required to screen the sports court, fences, pergola, and gas pit from public view, and the planting must exceed or meet the height

  82. because they will be adequately screened as well as they will also be taken in consideration any drainage or runoff issues through civil engineering and permits. In terms of the dimensional variance at the same location for the six-foot tall fence exceeding the requirement of four feet, I also move that that be approved as submitted. Based on the information presented, the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty because compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance would be unduly burdensome because any netting fence shorter than six feet tall would prevent reasonable use of the sports court. There's no injustice to the adjoining neighbors because it will be also screened. ianee circumstance ianee circumstance Thank you. with the property with the existing floor plan where the sports courts will be located. This is appropriate for a six-foot netting fence, and because of that, it is not self-created. With that said, if approved, the motion also includes applications for unnecessary permits must be made within one year. All permits must be obtained prior to commencing installation. Additional Evergreen planting shall be required to screen the sports court, fences, pergola, and gas pit from public view, and the planting must exceed or meet the height of the structure at the time of installation for 12 months of the year. There is also no illumination permitted on the sports court, and the use of the sports court is limited to daytime hours. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. So calling the next item, item 9, 5385 Long Meadow. Okay, similar situation. This one's on a large lot on Long Meadow. This is actually for a tennis court, and similar to the case that I heard a while ago, whenever we do a tennis court, we put the netting at 10 feet so that the tennis balls have a better chance of staying within the court. The only change that you guys don't see here is we actually moved the court into 20 feet off the property line instead of 16. Got the ring, but the 9-8 feet on the court. That's just the time of the court. for the Neighborhood Association setback, so it's actually a little further in the property. We have it fully screened. And I should add that there are two pergolas over some seating areas as well. But again, everything in keeping with what else is

  83. fences, pergola, and gas pit from public view, and the planting must exceed or meet the height of the structure at the time of installation for 12 months of the year. There is also no illumination permitted on the sports court, and the use of the sports court is limited to daytime hours. Support. I have a motion in support. Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Congratulations. Request is granted. So calling the next item, item 9, 5385 Long Meadow. Okay, similar situation. This one's on a large lot on Long Meadow. This is actually for a tennis court, and similar to the case that I heard a while ago, whenever we do a tennis court, we put the netting at 10 feet so that the tennis balls have a better chance of staying within the court. The only change that you guys don't see here is we actually moved the court into 20 feet off the property line instead of 16. Got the ring, but the 9-8 feet on the court. That's just the time of the court. for the Neighborhood Association setback, so it's actually a little further in the property. We have it fully screened. And I should add that there are two pergolas over some seating areas as well. But again, everything in keeping with what else is in this neighborhood and what's out there, so happy to answer any questions. Any questions for the board? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? Close the public hearing, bring it back for questions, discussion. Mr. Chairman, I have a couple questions. Ask away. First, did you get approval from the HOA? Yeah, we sent all the plans over to Brian Batchelor, Butchler, or whatever. So our notes show that you did not receive approval from the HOA. He gave us, he gave me, I talked to him just the other day, he gave me a verbal on the phone, so he has all the plans. Why did they, did someone write you or something? It's written at the bottom of our agenda, so let me pull the file. So maybe before you make those adjustments? I mean, Matt, the letters in the file. No, I mean, we sent them plans. I mean, I have the emails right here, back and forth with them. So, I guess why the township looks into that. Maybe they didn't submit it or something to you guys, I don't know. So, let's see what we got. So, let's see what we got.

  84. But again, everything in keeping with what else is in this neighborhood and what's out there, so happy to answer any questions. Any questions for the board? I'll open this to the public. Anyone would like to comment on this item? Close the public hearing, bring it back for questions, discussion. Mr. Chairman, I have a couple questions. Ask away. First, did you get approval from the HOA? Yeah, we sent all the plans over to Brian Batchelor, Butchler, or whatever. So our notes show that you did not receive approval from the HOA. He gave us, he gave me, I talked to him just the other day, he gave me a verbal on the phone, so he has all the plans. Why did they, did someone write you or something? It's written at the bottom of our agenda, so let me pull the file. So maybe before you make those adjustments? I mean, Matt, the letters in the file. No, I mean, we sent them plans. I mean, I have the emails right here, back and forth with them. So, I guess why the township looks into that. Maybe they didn't submit it or something to you guys, I don't know. So, let's see what we got. So, let's see what we got. we'll let them look into that first question second question is as you heard we talked to the gentleman before you did you hear that one way yeah that's what I was talking about yep so he reduced his sports court because I know you guys say it's 60 by 120 we have a problem with these sports courts being sizing so the other gentleman on overly was able to reduce it that still allowed that runoff or the running for those tennis balls and reduced it in order to look 58 by 106 so 108 yep okay too so the letter that we have on states that as the be bi be I a architectural director I received notification from the township a request is submitted to go before the zoning board I understand you'd like to build a sports court on your property at five three five long meadow for reference I've included a copy of the neighborhood deed restrictions the deed restriction speaks to some differences regarding setbacks the Bloomfield Estates Improvement Association requires a 25 foot for any permanent outbuilding on the property slightly stricter than the township 16 foot as a result this necessitates modifications to the placement of your sports court when the

  85. we'll let them look into that first question second question is as you heard we talked to the gentleman before you did you hear that one way yeah that's what I was talking about yep so he reduced his sports court because I know you guys say it's 60 by 120 we have a problem with these sports courts being sizing so the other gentleman on overly was able to reduce it that still allowed that runoff or the running for those tennis balls and reduced it in order to look 58 by 106 so 108 yep okay too so the letter that we have on states that as the be bi be I a architectural director I received notification from the township a request is submitted to go before the zoning board I understand you'd like to build a sports court on your property at five three five long meadow for reference I've included a copy of the neighborhood deed restrictions the deed restriction speaks to some differences regarding setbacks the Bloomfield Estates Improvement Association requires a 25 foot for any permanent outbuilding on the property slightly stricter than the township 16 foot as a result this necessitates modifications to the placement of your sports court when the drawings have been redrafted which I think is what Matt's referring to please contact me directly for an approval stamp prior to resubmitting to the township for their consideration approval so it looks like we received this letter on October 7 it sounds like maybe there's been more recent conversations. You just spoke to it being further off the lot line. So are you indicating now that you would meet the 25-foot deed restrictions? Correct. So we did two things. We made the court a little bit smaller. So right now it's 16. And so we made the court smaller to get to the 25, and that's what we resubmitted to them. Everything, too, is relative. I mean, that last lot we looked at is quite a bit smaller than this lot. So I get where you're coming from, but, you know, everything's relative. So the court right now would be 9 feet smaller, so 60 by, what is that, 108 or whatever it is, or 110. You know, I guess what's your concern about the, I mean, there's a lot of tennis courts that I've done here in the township without too much trouble on smaller lots. Is it just a runoff concern, or?

  86. necessitates modifications to the placement of your sports court when the drawings have been redrafted which I think is what Matt's referring to please contact me directly for an approval stamp prior to resubmitting to the township for their consideration approval so it looks like we received this letter on October 7 it sounds like maybe there's been more recent conversations. You just spoke to it being further off the lot line. So are you indicating now that you would meet the 25-foot deed restrictions? Correct. So we did two things. We made the court a little bit smaller. So right now it's 16. And so we made the court smaller to get to the 25, and that's what we resubmitted to them. Everything, too, is relative. I mean, that last lot we looked at is quite a bit smaller than this lot. So I get where you're coming from, but, you know, everything's relative. So the court right now would be 9 feet smaller, so 60 by, what is that, 108 or whatever it is, or 110. You know, I guess what's your concern about the, I mean, there's a lot of tennis courts that I've done here in the township without too much trouble on smaller lots. Is it just a runoff concern, or? I guess there's a bigger issue with sports courts in totality, which is something that we're going to try to address either at the ZBA or at the Township Board, so that either we can streamline this process or make it more cut and dry for not only developers, but residents as they move into their area. Sure. I think that would make it easier for them to understand the rules. Because right now it's kind of a plug and play at times. Right. But either way, so, because I thought you said 20 feet out the bracket line, so you're saying it's 25 feet out the bracket line? It's what's going on. whatever the their setback was 25 or whatever it was okay you know that's so that's what we sent back to them so 25 off the rear setback or the rears like I think like 60 feet or something like that it's that closest corner there that you see yeah that's 25 okay yeah so right there and in your picture it shows 16 but the the plan that got submitted to them is that whatever there's is 20 25 whatever it is okay it's just hard we're going off the plan you submitted so because now you're not with yet no I'm with yet so okay so since the other gentleman was able to make his modified to that other why are you and or your client unable to make it to the 58 by 108 I'd have to talk to my client I mean I'm

  87. Is it just a runoff concern, or? I guess there's a bigger issue with sports courts in totality, which is something that we're going to try to address either at the ZBA or at the Township Board, so that either we can streamline this process or make it more cut and dry for not only developers, but residents as they move into their area. Sure. I think that would make it easier for them to understand the rules. Because right now it's kind of a plug and play at times. Right. But either way, so, because I thought you said 20 feet out the bracket line, so you're saying it's 25 feet out the bracket line? It's what's going on. whatever the their setback was 25 or whatever it was okay you know that's so that's what we sent back to them so 25 off the rear setback or the rears like I think like 60 feet or something like that it's that closest corner there that you see yeah that's 25 okay yeah so right there and in your picture it shows 16 but the the plan that got submitted to them is that whatever there's is 20 25 whatever it is okay it's just hard we're going off the plan you submitted so because now you're not with yet no I'm with yet so okay so since the other gentleman was able to make his modified to that other why are you and or your client unable to make it to the 58 by 108 I'd have to talk to my client I mean I'm this is the first time I'm dealing with this here in terms of asking us to make some that smaller because usually I mean I've done a lot of tennis courts here in the township so standard size for tennis court 60 by 120 in that other case obviously they had a smaller lot so I can talk to the client but for my expertise I don't see that big of an issue at this size of a lot with a with a normal size tennis court you know in terms of drainage and stuff will obviously have a whole civil engineered plan that deals with all that so I don't I don't know what the if nobody sees the court from the outside what the you know I'm trying to get at what the concern is I mean we're not We're not doing anything different than we've done in the past. We're not trying to jam a 60 by 120 on a small village lot or something like that, which we actually have that too. So I totally respect where you're coming from. I'm just, this is the first time I'm ever hearing this come up. And any project that we do, and we do it at the highest professional level there is. We don't screw around with any type of shenanigans here. And so anything I design is going to be proportional to a space. It's going to feel right. It's not going to look overdone.

  88. client unable to make it to the 58 by 108 I'd have to talk to my client I mean I'm this is the first time I'm dealing with this here in terms of asking us to make some that smaller because usually I mean I've done a lot of tennis courts here in the township so standard size for tennis court 60 by 120 in that other case obviously they had a smaller lot so I can talk to the client but for my expertise I don't see that big of an issue at this size of a lot with a with a normal size tennis court you know in terms of drainage and stuff will obviously have a whole civil engineered plan that deals with all that so I don't I don't know what the if nobody sees the court from the outside what the you know I'm trying to get at what the concern is I mean we're not We're not doing anything different than we've done in the past. We're not trying to jam a 60 by 120 on a small village lot or something like that, which we actually have that too. So I totally respect where you're coming from. I'm just, this is the first time I'm ever hearing this come up. And any project that we do, and we do it at the highest professional level there is. We don't screw around with any type of shenanigans here. And so anything I design is going to be proportional to a space. It's going to feel right. It's not going to look overdone. I know there's plenty of houses in this community that look like a parking lot. That's not the level that we design at. So I can talk to them, but I don't think our request is unreasonable based on the size of this lot. I mean, it's a huge lot. I have a quick question. Are you done? Sure. So I may have misheard you, but I would like some clarification. I heard you earlier say something along the lines that the length of the support court would be reduced by nine feet based upon keeping it within setback. Right. That's correct. So the nine feet from the 120 gets you at 111. That's right. And so just for reference is that's not too far off of what the board was saying. It's kind of what we're comfortable approving. I know you have precedents, but that doesn't necessarily apply to the specific case. So, I mean, we were asking for something close to 58, which is two feet smaller than your width by 108, which is very similar to. 111 i don't know how you feel about that i'm just throwing it out there it's yeah i mean listen if it's negotiating feet i i i any of you know me i'm here to work with you guys i'm here to represent my client you know i'm not i'm not here to try to be argumentative at all i'm just here to present

  89. It's not going to look overdone. I know there's plenty of houses in this community that look like a parking lot. That's not the level that we design at. So I can talk to them, but I don't think our request is unreasonable based on the size of this lot. I mean, it's a huge lot. I have a quick question. Are you done? Sure. So I may have misheard you, but I would like some clarification. I heard you earlier say something along the lines that the length of the support court would be reduced by nine feet based upon keeping it within setback. Right. That's correct. So the nine feet from the 120 gets you at 111. That's right. And so just for reference is that's not too far off of what the board was saying. It's kind of what we're comfortable approving. I know you have precedents, but that doesn't necessarily apply to the specific case. So, I mean, we were asking for something close to 58, which is two feet smaller than your width by 108, which is very similar to. 111 i don't know how you feel about that i'm just throwing it out there it's yeah i mean listen if it's negotiating feet i i i any of you know me i'm here to work with you guys i'm here to represent my client you know i'm not i'm not here to try to be argumentative at all i'm just here to present so if the board if i i guess similar similar to what you're saying chris is that going forward it's good for guys like us to know what the board you know because i don't want to come in front of you it's like the last case i come in front of you with a six-foot fence because i know that's what's okay i appreciate that yes and so i want to come in front of you with cases that i'm not i'm here to work with you guys not against you guys so if that's what the board's going to do on these tennis courts i'll just tell every client that it's got to be no more than let's say 110 by 58 uh and it but it's also not it's it's property by property specific right if you got a huge lot it might be different if if that's where the board feels today i'm sure that reducing it two feet uh foot on each side and putting it at 110 or whatever you said it's totally fine i'm not you know i i'll make a decision for my client um and if that's where the overall board feels uh i'm good with it well i mean thank you for you know talking about that i'm not sure how does the board feel this is the time to discuss it yeah i mean is there any input from the planning commission you know in terms of you know what's the master plan can everybody have something like this and it's just something that we well endorse or i say you

  90. my client you know i'm not i'm not here to try to be argumentative at all i'm just here to present so if the board if i i guess similar similar to what you're saying chris is that going forward it's good for guys like us to know what the board you know because i don't want to come in front of you it's like the last case i come in front of you with a six-foot fence because i know that's what's okay i appreciate that yes and so i want to come in front of you with cases that i'm not i'm here to work with you guys not against you guys so if that's what the board's going to do on these tennis courts i'll just tell every client that it's got to be no more than let's say 110 by 58 uh and it but it's also not it's it's property by property specific right if you got a huge lot it might be different if if that's where the board feels today i'm sure that reducing it two feet uh foot on each side and putting it at 110 or whatever you said it's totally fine i'm not you know i i'll make a decision for my client um and if that's where the overall board feels uh i'm good with it well i mean thank you for you know talking about that i'm not sure how does the board feel this is the time to discuss it yeah i mean is there any input from the planning commission you know in terms of you know what's the master plan can everybody have something like this and it's just something that we well endorse or i say you planning cushion and that planning cushion doesn't necessarily monitor so so I look this up right so so I think Matt's right so I've looked up the dimensions of a court and the recommended buffer area gets you to 120 by 60 now that doesn't mean we can approve that but if you're starting with that as sort of the standard what's the why then as to why that would bother us to give somebody a standard sized court right there are more I've been doing this for 20 years there are more and more things going into people's backyards it's not only this there's kitchenettes there's TV walls that we have all sorts of things now so we have to think this through as to what would the why be that's got a good point if it's a big lot or whatever to have that what's considered a standard court with buffer area what's the why behind it right so we have drainage we just dealt with that in the last issue so but it's got right we already went same thing you said the last ones years this has got to be engineered we have to have the property drainage seems like he's got a lot of screening maybe he can add some screening to it but you know if you have you have people I don't play tennis but if people enjoy that as an activity and they're

  91. planning cushion and that planning cushion doesn't necessarily monitor so so I look this up right so so I think Matt's right so I've looked up the dimensions of a court and the recommended buffer area gets you to 120 by 60 now that doesn't mean we can approve that but if you're starting with that as sort of the standard what's the why then as to why that would bother us to give somebody a standard sized court right there are more I've been doing this for 20 years there are more and more things going into people's backyards it's not only this there's kitchenettes there's TV walls that we have all sorts of things now so we have to think this through as to what would the why be that's got a good point if it's a big lot or whatever to have that what's considered a standard court with buffer area what's the why behind it right so we have drainage we just dealt with that in the last issue so but it's got right we already went same thing you said the last ones years this has got to be engineered we have to have the property drainage seems like he's got a lot of screening maybe he can add some screening to it but you know if you have you have people I don't play tennis but if people enjoy that as an activity and they're serious about it they're gonna want a standard court they're gonna play doubles they're gonna play singles and they're going to have enough space around it so that you know if you're really good player right I guess you're gonna get it back for the serve so you need more room again i don't play but i watch maybe along this front like if what we're going at really um is about runoff like the amount of your all of our lots that we're paying bring up i have a question for the township because we are obviously a zoning board and not tasked with drainage but is it and it may get everybody to a point of understanding what the goal is is it um from the engineering department anywhere near a goal that all water should be maintained on your own property oh that's always that's always the goal and that's the requirement is that you can't the issue becomes and i'm sure scott's probably familiar familiar with this as well the issue becomes if there is differentiating between what the new runoff is as long as the the way it's written is that you can't add additional runoff you can't increase

  92. people I don't play tennis but if people enjoy that as an activity and they're serious about it they're gonna want a standard court they're gonna play doubles they're gonna play singles and they're going to have enough space around it so that you know if you're really good player right I guess you're gonna get it back for the serve so you need more room again i don't play but i watch maybe along this front like if what we're going at really um is about runoff like the amount of your all of our lots that we're paying bring up i have a question for the township because we are obviously a zoning board and not tasked with drainage but is it and it may get everybody to a point of understanding what the goal is is it um from the engineering department anywhere near a goal that all water should be maintained on your own property oh that's always that's always the goal and that's the requirement is that you can't the issue becomes and i'm sure scott's probably familiar familiar with this as well the issue becomes if there is differentiating between what the new runoff is as long as the the way it's written is that you can't add additional runoff you can't increase so it would it would be great if we could go back retroactively and make sure there was absolutely zero runoff on adjacent properties but our role and responsibility is to make sure that whatever is being newly installed is not increasing or adding to an existing condition the engineering can fix that there could be leach basins and dry wells absolutely oh absolutely that's my question what are we designing to work boards, and those are the things that the engineering department's reviewing. Well no, our building department actually, and we are making sure, as Matt noted, we are being much more stringent based on the feedback we've had. I think we're kind of at a point right now where there's- Well you have to be based on the number of things that are going, right? Exactly. You could have a whole row of tennis courts, right? And then what are you going to do? So I think in conversations that I've had with some, is I think that this is going to be a greater discussion, that's probably going to come back for some ordinance amendment considerations, but I think that this is a good starting point. But again, that doesn't necessarily answer the issues related to this submittal, but I think that this is being brought to, is a higher recognition at the township level overall.

  93. is as long as the the way it's written is that you can't add additional runoff you can't increase so it would it would be great if we could go back retroactively and make sure there was absolutely zero runoff on adjacent properties but our role and responsibility is to make sure that whatever is being newly installed is not increasing or adding to an existing condition the engineering can fix that there could be leach basins and dry wells absolutely oh absolutely that's my question what are we designing to work boards, and those are the things that the engineering department's reviewing. Well no, our building department actually, and we are making sure, as Matt noted, we are being much more stringent based on the feedback we've had. I think we're kind of at a point right now where there's- Well you have to be based on the number of things that are going, right? Exactly. You could have a whole row of tennis courts, right? And then what are you going to do? So I think in conversations that I've had with some, is I think that this is going to be a greater discussion, that's probably going to come back for some ordinance amendment considerations, but I think that this is a good starting point. But again, that doesn't necessarily answer the issues related to this submittal, but I think that this is being brought to, is a higher recognition at the township level overall. So is there a chance, Matt, that this, they might need dry wells or items here in their drainage plan? Yeah, I actually just got the civil engineer drawing back yesterday from Horizon, and he's got, he's adding another catch basin and a dry well, because to Andrea's point, they're doing a good job now of really reviewing and saying, is all this water that is being added or redirected, is it being handled? And so, you know, I mean, commending the building department, they're doing a good job of that. So on this one, we had to add another catch basin and a dry well to accommodate the extra runoff. So we want to add a little bit to our tank, but when we're in here, we're going to have And so, it's going to add a little bit of a bucket or some pressure here, we're going to add a little bit of the space. And so it's going to add a little bit of the cover that I didn't and you know just be sure we're not putting that water on other people's properties well I think for the zoning board because we're not going to be there for that but we know that's the mission that it is site-by-site specific yeah that's a portion that's what we've always said is proportion to the lot and I find this one quite a bit different than the earlier one yeah should I make a motion sure okay it's a good discussion no absolutely are you asking for a 10

  94. think that this is being brought to, is a higher recognition at the township level overall. So is there a chance, Matt, that this, they might need dry wells or items here in their drainage plan? Yeah, I actually just got the civil engineer drawing back yesterday from Horizon, and he's got, he's adding another catch basin and a dry well, because to Andrea's point, they're doing a good job now of really reviewing and saying, is all this water that is being added or redirected, is it being handled? And so, you know, I mean, commending the building department, they're doing a good job of that. So on this one, we had to add another catch basin and a dry well to accommodate the extra runoff. So we want to add a little bit to our tank, but when we're in here, we're going to have And so, it's going to add a little bit of a bucket or some pressure here, we're going to add a little bit of the space. And so it's going to add a little bit of the cover that I didn't and you know just be sure we're not putting that water on other people's properties well I think for the zoning board because we're not going to be there for that but we know that's the mission that it is site-by-site specific yeah that's a portion that's what we've always said is proportion to the lot and I find this one quite a bit different than the earlier one yeah should I make a motion sure okay it's a good discussion no absolutely are you asking for a 10 foot fence no they only want six okay in report I've got to find my title sheet it's number nine number nine okay so I'll start with the permission request in respect to the proposal for 5385 long meadow permission request for a sports court sense and pergola I move that the application be approved per the drawings attached the drawing submitted based on the information provided the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the size of the accessory structure is a standard tennis court on a lot that is appropriate sized for full-size tennis court the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood there are a number of them and will continue to be in the township the location the accessory structure does not hinder adjacent use of property of the neighbors and is harmonious with the neighborhood as well

  95. a motion sure okay it's a good discussion no absolutely are you asking for a 10 foot fence no they only want six okay in report I've got to find my title sheet it's number nine number nine okay so I'll start with the permission request in respect to the proposal for 5385 long meadow permission request for a sports court sense and pergola I move that the application be approved per the drawings attached the drawing submitted based on the information provided the applicant did demonstrate compliance with section 42 dash 7.6 standards because the size of the accessory structure is a standard tennis court on a lot that is appropriate sized for full-size tennis court the accessory structure is appropriate to the neighborhood there are a number of them and will continue to be in the township the location the accessory structure does not hinder adjacent use of property of the neighbors and is harmonious with the neighborhood as well as the fence proposed I also make a motion to approve the dimensional variance for the 10-foot tall screen fencing to approve the dimensional variance for the 10-foot tall fencing a move the merits be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty the 10-foot height is required for the stated use of the tennis court that's being approved and compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance it would be unduly burdensome for the youth proposed also there's no injustice the neighbors as it will be screened to the full height and additional to both the permission and the dimensional variance it must be 25 feet off the lot lines per the Association approvals should the motion pass application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to commencing installation

  96. of property of the neighbors and is harmonious with the neighborhood as well as the fence proposed I also make a motion to approve the dimensional variance for the 10-foot tall screen fencing to approve the dimensional variance for the 10-foot tall fencing a move the merits be approved as requested based on the information presented the applicant did demonstrate all standards for practical difficulty the 10-foot height is required for the stated use of the tennis court that's being approved and compliance with the strict letter of the ordinance it would be unduly burdensome for the youth proposed also there's no injustice the neighbors as it will be screened to the full height and additional to both the permission and the dimensional variance it must be 25 feet off the lot lines per the Association approvals should the motion pass application for all necessary permits must be made within one year and all permits obtained prior to commencing installation support so we have a motion and support no discussion so in your in your motion i i believe you you said there's no injustice because it's going to be screened to the height so you're clear on that right so it's got to be screened to the height uh at the time it's put in any other discussion what about illumination and daytime hours yeah it's no illumination i'd like to add that to the um the amendment okay the hours of use are daytime and no illumination is included and then the only other discussion is we're not approving it as submitted because originally was submitted as 60 by 120 it is 60 by 111. exactly yeah and i'll meet the association setbacks yep support all right so i have a motion support amendment support clarification i think we're going to get the minutes right on this right we got the numbers he's got ai going back there all right so all those in favor as uh amended and clarified say aye aye any opposed congratulations you guys appreciate your request is granted as clarified thanks

  97. support so we have a motion and support no discussion so in your in your motion i i believe you you said there's no injustice because it's going to be screened to the height so you're clear on that right so it's got to be screened to the height uh at the time it's put in any other discussion what about illumination and daytime hours yeah it's no illumination i'd like to add that to the um the amendment okay the hours of use are daytime and no illumination is included and then the only other discussion is we're not approving it as submitted because originally was submitted as 60 by 120 it is 60 by 111. exactly yeah and i'll meet the association setbacks yep support all right so i have a motion support amendment support clarification i think we're going to get the minutes right on this right we got the numbers he's got ai going back there all right so all those in favor as uh amended and clarified say aye aye any opposed congratulations you guys appreciate your request is granted as clarified thanks all right so uh do i have a motion to adjourn are there any more items do is anyone in the audience uh have something else have something else at all You do? What is your address? Snowshoe Circle? Did we put another one to the end? No. Did you receive a notice in the paper, in the mail, for tonight's meeting? Yes. Hold on. I haven't seen it yet. Do you happen to have your letter? Do you have any notice with you? No, please. Okay. Snowshoe. I don't know if you have our agenda. I didn't think they were sitting there for entertainment. I know. Very patient, too. Yeah, very patient. 5-8-3-0, Snowshoe Circle is on the agenda for November 11th. November 11th meeting. Oh, you've sat here all night. I'm so sorry. Well, at least you got a lot of tips. I'm sorry, but that's our November. It looks like you're towards the end of November, so you would have never gotten a notice for tonight's meeting. I've got five to, I've got five to the end of November 11th.

  98. congratulations you guys appreciate your request is granted as clarified thanks all right so uh do i have a motion to adjourn are there any more items do is anyone in the audience uh have something else have something else at all You do? What is your address? Snowshoe Circle? Did we put another one to the end? No. Did you receive a notice in the paper, in the mail, for tonight's meeting? Yes. Hold on. I haven't seen it yet. Do you happen to have your letter? Do you have any notice with you? No, please. Okay. Snowshoe. I don't know if you have our agenda. I didn't think they were sitting there for entertainment. I know. Very patient, too. Yeah, very patient. 5-8-3-0, Snowshoe Circle is on the agenda for November 11th. November 11th meeting. Oh, you've sat here all night. I'm so sorry. Well, at least you got a lot of tips. I'm sorry, but that's our November. It looks like you're towards the end of November, so you would have never gotten a notice for tonight's meeting. I've got five to, I've got five to the end of November 11th. It was today. Well, perhaps you could explain how the notices have to go. Yeah. I guess I'd have to see that letter. We just don't have any materials to look at. And we didn't know if you're... What's that? It's happening every time. No. It's not. Okay, so there's a miscommunication because we also have, he's checking the list of all the notices that went out for this month and we're not seeing your address. So I would suggest you contact our department and come in. We certainly can make sure you're at the front of the agenda for November as you sat through all night. We can put you on the top of the agenda for November, but we don't have a record of ever sending out a notice to you. So if there was a miscommunication, I would suggest that you actually, can we talk after the meeting tonight instead of right now during the meeting? Let's talk after the meeting.

  99. I've got five to, I've got five to the end of November 11th. It was today. Well, perhaps you could explain how the notices have to go. Yeah. I guess I'd have to see that letter. We just don't have any materials to look at. And we didn't know if you're... What's that? It's happening every time. No. It's not. Okay, so there's a miscommunication because we also have, he's checking the list of all the notices that went out for this month and we're not seeing your address. So I would suggest you contact our department and come in. We certainly can make sure you're at the front of the agenda for November as you sat through all night. We can put you on the top of the agenda for November, but we don't have a record of ever sending out a notice to you. So if there was a miscommunication, I would suggest that you actually, can we talk after the meeting tonight instead of right now during the meeting? Let's talk after the meeting. Okay, thank you. Thank you for your patience. We apologize for that. So do I have a motion to adjourn? So moved. No, I can't make the motion. Okay, so moved in. Second. Second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Do any opposed? The meeting is adjourned.