the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Thursday, May 14, 2026 · 100 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on May 13, 2026

Summary

The city council discussed rebuilding roads in Bingham Farms with low cost per home, exploring existing funds, and considering a vote to redirect safety path millage funds to road projects without increasing taxes.

  • Council discussed rebuilding roads and assessments in the village.
  • City council discussed local road funding and infrastructure improvements.
  • Council discussed increasing funding for local road maintenance and infrastructure improvements.
  • Council discussed redirecting safety path millage funds to road projects without increasing tax rate.
  • Council discussed millage rates and potential overrides without increasing taxes.

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Topics

Transcript

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  1. In the Eagle, there was a notice that there's an SAD to rebuild two roads coming off a 13 mile road in Bingham Farms. And they assessed the SAD per home for the total rebuild of these concrete roads, the total was $6,000. I didn't say $60,000, I said $6,000. I said, well, how the hell did they do it? Excuse me, I'm sorry. How did they do it for $6,000, a total rebuild? Working with our COC? Well, more than just that. So I went there to Bingham Farms, and I sat down with the city manager, who used to be at Oakland Township. So she has very good experience in the township setting. And the treasurer, who spent an hour and a half going over this. Because they're a village, one, they get Public Act 51 money. Number two, they can borrow money. I'm not sure. I'm not clear on the concept. There's some fund someplace. They can borrow a very low interest rate. They can mill more. They have millage. They have road millage they have. And, of course, then the fourth part is, of course, the residents. And so when you put them all together, they can build, rebuild these roads. And I mean the total rebuild. Rip it out, build a new one. Six grand per home. And they have several others they want to do. And they don't, you know, several others they want to do. And he said, we want to keep the cost between six and eight thousand dollars per home for the special assessment. I mean, the most part of this investment. on all of it I'm thinking whoa how do you do that and they don't have a road department either they have nothing it's all contracted out so I think we although we've eliminated that discussion become a city because it's just a waste of time at this point it's just not going to happen really because of Public Act 51 basically input because how we what we how was structured how it's structured we're leaving a lot of money on the table we just don't win it's not getting it so anyway that being said I just want to let you know that about that conversation I had with Bingham farms people it was really productive really good they were very nice okay anyway so moving on are you saying though that it might be maybe it's not a conversation for this group or for this meeting but maybe it's a conversation for some time well I believe it is that's only me I think it is because there's a lot of things that can be done if we were you know if we if if we were a village or a city that we can't do now

  2. And I mean the total rebuild. Rip it out, build a new one. Six grand per home. And they have several others they want to do. And they don't, you know, several others they want to do. And he said, we want to keep the cost between six and eight thousand dollars per home for the special assessment. I mean, the most part of this investment. on all of it I'm thinking whoa how do you do that and they don't have a road department either they have nothing it's all contracted out so I think we although we've eliminated that discussion become a city because it's just a waste of time at this point it's just not going to happen really because of Public Act 51 basically input because how we what we how was structured how it's structured we're leaving a lot of money on the table we just don't win it's not getting it so anyway that being said I just want to let you know that about that conversation I had with Bingham farms people it was really productive really good they were very nice okay anyway so moving on are you saying though that it might be maybe it's not a conversation for this group or for this meeting but maybe it's a conversation for some time well I believe it is that's only me I think it is because there's a lot of things that can be done if we were you know if we if if we were a village or a city that we can't do now and you know we talked about what he saw with them and they said yeah we wanted to we wanted to put signage up we didn't want cut through traffic so we put no no turn no no right turn they just did it they just want the council said do it and they put them up they think you know they wanted to put up other do other things as well they just did it so I don't know what makes it different from us but we cannot do that that is correct Royal Commission for Oakland County this procedure we could get certain things done but we have to get their blessing and it's and it's you know they have to but in this village or city they just decided to do and they did it now they do work with the camp with the Road Commission as well but the point is that they have a lot more freedom than we do and it seems like they're able to get a lot more money to be able to interesting to know what the total cost was for the road construction that you're referring to I can get that I have it he gave it all and then I forgot to bring you later in the right assessments well I can get to get that to you but I don't have it with me I get that another at another time but okay so let's move on so so the question I want to ask you all should we go through each one of these and get the

  3. were you know if we if if we were a village or a city that we can't do now and you know we talked about what he saw with them and they said yeah we wanted to we wanted to put signage up we didn't want cut through traffic so we put no no turn no no right turn they just did it they just want the council said do it and they put them up they think you know they wanted to put up other do other things as well they just did it so I don't know what makes it different from us but we cannot do that that is correct Royal Commission for Oakland County this procedure we could get certain things done but we have to get their blessing and it's and it's you know they have to but in this village or city they just decided to do and they did it now they do work with the camp with the Road Commission as well but the point is that they have a lot more freedom than we do and it seems like they're able to get a lot more money to be able to interesting to know what the total cost was for the road construction that you're referring to I can get that I have it he gave it all and then I forgot to bring you later in the right assessments well I can get to get that to you but I don't have it with me I get that another at another time but okay so let's move on so so the question I want to ask you all should we go through each one of these and get the report we want to handle it what do you think we should do just go item one and then have you report okay then let's start because that's what you know yes right okay good so I don't want to all right Jeff and Mike you want to do it Mike you want me to okay you can start Jeff and I'll jump okay he'll go back me up with it and where I get to go afar a number one what we were tasked to do was to try to look at different ways that the township under its current funding and its current availability resources could maybe start directing more money to the local road activity and so uh what we have identified are i call kind of a short term and a medium to long term uh thing on recommendation number one uh the township is now dedicating 250 000 towards uh the road through the general budget if you will what the recommendation is to go to the board and suggest that that be increased by another 250 000 so there would be 500 000 available annually that would go for the road maintenance and infrastructure improvements so that would be

  4. question I want to ask you all should we go through each one of these and get the report we want to handle it what do you think we should do just go item one and then have you report okay then let's start because that's what you know yes right okay good so I don't want to all right Jeff and Mike you want to do it Mike you want me to okay you can start Jeff and I'll jump okay he'll go back me up with it and where I get to go afar a number one what we were tasked to do was to try to look at different ways that the township under its current funding and its current availability resources could maybe start directing more money to the local road activity and so uh what we have identified are i call kind of a short term and a medium to long term uh thing on recommendation number one uh the township is now dedicating 250 000 towards uh the road through the general budget if you will what the recommendation is to go to the board and suggest that that be increased by another 250 000 so there would be 500 000 available annually that would go for the road maintenance and infrastructure improvements so that would be an increase you know increase of 250. we've talked to jason in the budget and that is and with mike and and they that is a doable recommendation the board has to act on it but from the staff viewpoint they can present that and within the budget and the budget here i didn't understand this maybe the budget year for the township starts april 1. it's a different fiscal year than other things you may be familiar with so the idea on come april 1 that there's 250 already identified additional recommendation would be another 250 would go into the to help that so that would be an increase for that uh and so that would be going for the 26 20 27 fiscal year so that would be trying to identify from the current resources something additional funds that go towards the road so that's our recommendation number one okay we'll go through both when we go back recommendation two is looking at uh uh uh sources of current millage that we have in the township and there is we're all familiar with the safety path millage I believe and what we're in it's scheduled to expire and what we're suggesting that that be paused for the short term at

  5. that would go for the road maintenance and infrastructure improvements so that would be an increase you know increase of 250. we've talked to jason in the budget and that is and with mike and and they that is a doable recommendation the board has to act on it but from the staff viewpoint they can present that and within the budget and the budget here i didn't understand this maybe the budget year for the township starts april 1. it's a different fiscal year than other things you may be familiar with so the idea on come april 1 that there's 250 already identified additional recommendation would be another 250 would go into the to help that so that would be an increase for that uh and so that would be going for the 26 20 27 fiscal year so that would be trying to identify from the current resources something additional funds that go towards the road so that's our recommendation number one okay we'll go through both when we go back recommendation two is looking at uh uh uh sources of current millage that we have in the township and there is we're all familiar with the safety path millage I believe and what we're in it's scheduled to expire and what we're suggesting that that be paused for the short term at least the safe because there's been a set of projects and they have been worked on and there are some funds available to finish up any projects that have been pending because they have a little bit of a fund balance and that that that safety path millage which is it's about two and a half million dollars a year it's about 0.44 mills that that be redirected and then we would create a millage for the road and and then maybe revisit we could talk to them about the safety path or the board could maybe revisit that in three or four years when other millages start to mature or other payments start to be made which is like the one that the health care and the retirement that type of thing so what we tried to do in our recommendation is if we can identify some existing available funds now and have a kind of a program or an idea that we could start to see more money flow to the roads from our own resources and we all recognize and we'll get into that later that we got to deal with the Oakland County Road Commission and we've all talked about that but this is how

  6. to expire and what we're suggesting that that be paused for the short term at least the safe because there's been a set of projects and they have been worked on and there are some funds available to finish up any projects that have been pending because they have a little bit of a fund balance and that that that safety path millage which is it's about two and a half million dollars a year it's about 0.44 mills that that be redirected and then we would create a millage for the road and and then maybe revisit we could talk to them about the safety path or the board could maybe revisit that in three or four years when other millages start to mature or other payments start to be made which is like the one that the health care and the retirement that type of thing so what we tried to do in our recommendation is if we can identify some existing available funds now and have a kind of a program or an idea that we could start to see more money flow to the roads from our own resources and we all recognize and we'll get into that later that we got to deal with the Oakland County Road Commission and we've all talked about that but this is how we do something right now have some an impact uh to start to work on that so you know and then that you know with that money that we're seeing from the popular the safety path millage it could be redirected to a road village could then be available for sads you know as a way to help that excellent you know i i agree with it i i have a one little uh edit uh you know in the first bullet in the first page the special assessment district projects right are you on recommendation one or 250 000 towards sad projects yeah right so i just want to add projects if that's okay with you and on the second recommendation i assume that this is a legally feasible right to to the safety millage uh into road whether people voted for safe safety path millage you can put that fund into road now uh is that legally no that might comprise but yeah we'd

  7. we do something right now have some an impact uh to start to work on that so you know and then that you know with that money that we're seeing from the popular the safety path millage it could be redirected to a road village could then be available for sads you know as a way to help that excellent you know i i agree with it i i have a one little uh edit uh you know in the first bullet in the first page the special assessment district projects right are you on recommendation one or 250 000 towards sad projects yeah right so i just want to add projects if that's okay with you and on the second recommendation i assume that this is a legally feasible right to to the safety millage uh into road whether people voted for safe safety path millage you can put that fund into road now uh is that legally no that might comprise but yeah we'd have to the residents would have to vote on it it's it's it's up it's up for renewal in any case yeah so and it it expires it has an expiration yeah the safety path millage we currently have expires in november of 2020 you And so to either renew it or ask the residents if they would take the pause of the safety path of building new paths, we'd still have a reserve fund to maintain what we have, which is, you know, replacing pads that have become damaged or, you know, cutting back growth in areas. We'd still have a reserve fund for that. But to pause the safety path millage and ask from a vote of the people probably would be in the August 2028 vote. That's a primary of would they support taking that money and putting it into roads so we could further invest into our roads without any increase in their tax rate, just redirecting funds. And I think that's Mike's last point is key. We're not increasing millage. All we're doing is maintaining the millage but directing that part of the millage to a different direction that we're talking about.

  8. millage you can put that fund into road now uh is that legally no that might comprise but yeah we'd have to the residents would have to vote on it it's it's it's up it's up for renewal in any case yeah so and it it expires it has an expiration yeah the safety path millage we currently have expires in november of 2020 you And so to either renew it or ask the residents if they would take the pause of the safety path of building new paths, we'd still have a reserve fund to maintain what we have, which is, you know, replacing pads that have become damaged or, you know, cutting back growth in areas. We'd still have a reserve fund for that. But to pause the safety path millage and ask from a vote of the people probably would be in the August 2028 vote. That's a primary of would they support taking that money and putting it into roads so we could further invest into our roads without any increase in their tax rate, just redirecting funds. And I think that's Mike's last point is key. We're not increasing millage. All we're doing is maintaining the millage but directing that part of the millage to a different direction that we're talking about. So there's people, there's no tax increase or no millage increase, and we'll rephrase that. I think, thanks for making it clear. I wasn't clear about going before the voters to make that recommendation come to fruition. So from the township perspective, those are our two recommendations. Because I think at the big picture we're looking at, when we go to the board, we're probably going to have like six, seven, eight recommendations. So from the board, we're looking at, when we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, Thank you. So, you know, I think that these, you know, this was the right number of recognition for this first task. Okay, I want to ask you a question. Maybe Mike, you could help me with this one. As it stands now, we talked about, and the people have talked to us about new construction, about uncapped homes, sales, et cetera, you know, the value is going up. Right. Okay, and we were told that because of that, under Headley, we have to roll back our millage. Mm-hmm. Because we cannot increase. Now, if we, is there a way, I've asked this before, and it's kind of in keeping with this, is there a way that we could override that Headley restriction somehow, or is that considered a new millage?

  9. All we're doing is maintaining the millage but directing that part of the millage to a different direction that we're talking about. So there's people, there's no tax increase or no millage increase, and we'll rephrase that. I think, thanks for making it clear. I wasn't clear about going before the voters to make that recommendation come to fruition. So from the township perspective, those are our two recommendations. Because I think at the big picture we're looking at, when we go to the board, we're probably going to have like six, seven, eight recommendations. So from the board, we're looking at, when we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, we go to the board, Thank you. So, you know, I think that these, you know, this was the right number of recognition for this first task. Okay, I want to ask you a question. Maybe Mike, you could help me with this one. As it stands now, we talked about, and the people have talked to us about new construction, about uncapped homes, sales, et cetera, you know, the value is going up. Right. Okay, and we were told that because of that, under Headley, we have to roll back our millage. Mm-hmm. Because we cannot increase. Now, if we, is there a way, I've asked this before, and it's kind of in keeping with this, is there a way that we could override that Headley restriction somehow, or is that considered a new millage? In other words, let's just say we're at 50. Right. I don't know exactly. We're at 50. Right. And so now, because of increases, we're going to get more money. So they say, well, you've got to come down to 49, or 48, or whatever. Right. Well, how come, if we want to stay at 50, not an increase, just stay there, does that mean we have to do a Headley override? I can't answer that with full confidence, but I'll get you an answer on it. Because that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. I believe we have to go to a vote of the people would have to make that change. So was that considered a millage increase then? Right. But we did just lower our millage rate because we refinanced a bond for the DPW and Senior Center, which you're going to see a slight rollback in your millage rates. And as we're going to go down to 30, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20. Thank you. uh coming up but my record my experience has been that is about it's called the millage override all you're telling people is you're under the headley range but your millage keeps going down we just want to restore it that's it okay so whatever it is that we're at the next year that we have to come back i would is that's what i would like to see because that there is a lot of money there that could be used for the roads it could be used for whatever it could go in the

  10. a new millage? In other words, let's just say we're at 50. Right. I don't know exactly. We're at 50. Right. And so now, because of increases, we're going to get more money. So they say, well, you've got to come down to 49, or 48, or whatever. Right. Well, how come, if we want to stay at 50, not an increase, just stay there, does that mean we have to do a Headley override? I can't answer that with full confidence, but I'll get you an answer on it. Because that's a lot of money. That's a lot of money. I believe we have to go to a vote of the people would have to make that change. So was that considered a millage increase then? Right. But we did just lower our millage rate because we refinanced a bond for the DPW and Senior Center, which you're going to see a slight rollback in your millage rates. And as we're going to go down to 30, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20. Thank you. uh coming up but my record my experience has been that is about it's called the millage override all you're telling people is you're under the headley range but your millage keeps going down we just want to restore it that's it okay so whatever it is that we're at the next year that we have to come back i would is that's what i would like to see because that there is a lot of money there that could be used for the roads it could be used for whatever it could go in the general fund but if would it would it be do you think that it would be something that people would have an appetite for to say well we're not raising we're at 50 we're not going anymore we're just going to stay where you are so we but we need to vote to do that we're not going up right do you think that that's tenable i think here i think it depends upon that what you're doing what you're saying you're going to do with the money because it it would be your how are you going to pick and choose the problem we're going to have is who's going to get the money and who isn't what neighborhood's going to get the money and what is it now i have my own ideas about what i would do to incentivize neighborhoods to be the first in line and then somehow or another we have to come up with the formula to plug in so that these the neighborhoods could stand in line and get their money the problem you're going to have is first of all the people who already have it packaged and come in, I don't know what their reaction to that's going to be. And the other people are going to say, well, how are we going to prioritize? Let's say we have $5 million that we, where's the $5 million going to go?

  11. of money there that could be used for the roads it could be used for whatever it could go in the general fund but if would it would it be do you think that it would be something that people would have an appetite for to say well we're not raising we're at 50 we're not going anymore we're just going to stay where you are so we but we need to vote to do that we're not going up right do you think that that's tenable i think here i think it depends upon that what you're doing what you're saying you're going to do with the money because it it would be your how are you going to pick and choose the problem we're going to have is who's going to get the money and who isn't what neighborhood's going to get the money and what is it now i have my own ideas about what i would do to incentivize neighborhoods to be the first in line and then somehow or another we have to come up with the formula to plug in so that these the neighborhoods could stand in line and get their money the problem you're going to have is first of all the people who already have it packaged and come in, I don't know what their reaction to that's going to be. And the other people are going to say, well, how are we going to prioritize? Let's say we have $5 million that we, where's the $5 million going to go? And that would be the same argument then with putting the safety path millage and moving it into roads and having a, it would be the same argument. But everybody gets an equal access to the safety path. Well, I'm talking about if we take it out of there and put it into roads. Yeah, but if you put it into roads, you're going to have to say what roads are going to be and we can talk about this. And Jeff, I have some good news. Our assessor just walked in, so obviously we have people watching us live on TV. So here, we could get your answer there. He doesn't know what the question is. Oh, I thought you, I thought you said he wanted to. Oh, I thought you were watching us on TV. Okay, the question is. I thought we had a viewer. Oh, that would have been, that would have been, that would have been way too cool. I just walked in, I was watching on TV. We had this discussion, we've had this discussion before, okay. What we talked about in the recommendation we just presented was to take the safety path millage, put a pause to it, and then have a vote of the people, again, because it's another millage, to take that same millage and put it into roads. Okay. Okay. And my question, to further that, my question was, and we talked about it.

  12. Let's say we have $5 million that we, where's the $5 million going to go? And that would be the same argument then with putting the safety path millage and moving it into roads and having a, it would be the same argument. But everybody gets an equal access to the safety path. Well, I'm talking about if we take it out of there and put it into roads. Yeah, but if you put it into roads, you're going to have to say what roads are going to be and we can talk about this. And Jeff, I have some good news. Our assessor just walked in, so obviously we have people watching us live on TV. So here, we could get your answer there. He doesn't know what the question is. Oh, I thought you, I thought you said he wanted to. Oh, I thought you were watching us on TV. Okay, the question is. I thought we had a viewer. Oh, that would have been, that would have been, that would have been way too cool. I just walked in, I was watching on TV. We had this discussion, we've had this discussion before, okay. What we talked about in the recommendation we just presented was to take the safety path millage, put a pause to it, and then have a vote of the people, again, because it's another millage, to take that same millage and put it into roads. Okay. Okay. And my question, to further that, my question was, and we talked about it. this before the fact that when we have excess we have more value in the township new construction uncapped homes being sold etc okay but we have to roll back the millage all right and so I said if we didn't roll back the millage that we'd have to go to the vote of the people to stay if let's say we're at 50 I'm making it up I don't know the number let's say we're at 50 mills and we want so the rollback goes to 48 what we say no let's just stay at 50 we're not going to increase you've lived there your house is still capped you're not it's not going up except for rate of inflation five well as usual the is there an appetite to do that would that be feasible is that something that nobody's gonna want to do and that was my question really is knowing that it's a vote that we have to go to the people it's a mill it's a headley override it yeah it's a headley override uh is it an appetite for the the folks out in the township I don't know that answer you know that would some be something that the the voters of the township would obviously make a decision on one way or another um you know is there an appetite to get our roads fixed yep would would that outweigh um you know would that sway

  13. this before the fact that when we have excess we have more value in the township new construction uncapped homes being sold etc okay but we have to roll back the millage all right and so I said if we didn't roll back the millage that we'd have to go to the vote of the people to stay if let's say we're at 50 I'm making it up I don't know the number let's say we're at 50 mills and we want so the rollback goes to 48 what we say no let's just stay at 50 we're not going to increase you've lived there your house is still capped you're not it's not going up except for rate of inflation five well as usual the is there an appetite to do that would that be feasible is that something that nobody's gonna want to do and that was my question really is knowing that it's a vote that we have to go to the people it's a mill it's a headley override it yeah it's a headley override uh is it an appetite for the the folks out in the township I don't know that answer you know that would some be something that the the voters of the township would obviously make a decision on one way or another um you know is there an appetite to get our roads fixed yep would would that outweigh um you know would that sway people to vote for a headley override I I I don't know if it would or wouldn't because the only people it would affect would affect people who just moved in bought a new home well because their house is uncapped now that's going to go up go up and it'll it affect new businesses uh new construction well it would affect everybody because every instead of your millage rates being rolled back they're going to say the same way or the same same small amount right right would it be smaller less than a mill probably or a million yeah okay for sure well along with this i i really would love to see if that's tenable you know what i mean because it's just we seem like we're just getting penalized for the growth that we've got and the increased value you know the the jason uh tice our finance director he'll tell you that we're the only one of the only states in the country that gets penalized three times um with as far as municipalities go with the rollbacks um you know and and some of the other there's two others i can't think of what what his two other examples were um but but we our taxable value were not ours but all communities in michigan taxable value gets really whacked three times

  14. is there an appetite to get our roads fixed yep would would that outweigh um you know would that sway people to vote for a headley override I I I don't know if it would or wouldn't because the only people it would affect would affect people who just moved in bought a new home well because their house is uncapped now that's going to go up go up and it'll it affect new businesses uh new construction well it would affect everybody because every instead of your millage rates being rolled back they're going to say the same way or the same same small amount right right would it be smaller less than a mill probably or a million yeah okay for sure well along with this i i really would love to see if that's tenable you know what i mean because it's just we seem like we're just getting penalized for the growth that we've got and the increased value you know the the jason uh tice our finance director he'll tell you that we're the only one of the only states in the country that gets penalized three times um with as far as municipalities go with the rollbacks um you know and and some of the other there's two others i can't think of what what his two other examples were um but but we our taxable value were not ours but all communities in michigan taxable value gets really whacked three times um you know so it's it's tough i mean it's it's hard for municipalities to uh you know i think the other one was the cpi so it was the cpi limiting the increase the rollbacks and then there's a third one um and and and it is it's tough i mean it's tough to just pick up and generate try and generate new revenue for roads or for you know a parks and rec department or something like that it's not easy for you existing community to do something like that okay thanks I would love to see that as something that we might look at but it's out of the box thinking I think that's a good well I don't know if that Jeff let me ask you would this fit in with what you've recommended to to explore it not to recommend we do it but to explore it or should it be something just completely separate for it what I'm kind of thinking of where we end up with all this I'm trying to think about what are practical rest recommendations we can make that could be implementable okay and not get sidetracked into something a little bit like the whole city discussion and go now maybe we could say here are some immediate recommendations

  15. were not ours but all communities in michigan taxable value gets really whacked three times um you know so it's it's tough i mean it's it's hard for municipalities to uh you know i think the other one was the cpi so it was the cpi limiting the increase the rollbacks and then there's a third one um and and and it is it's tough i mean it's tough to just pick up and generate try and generate new revenue for roads or for you know a parks and rec department or something like that it's not easy for you existing community to do something like that okay thanks I would love to see that as something that we might look at but it's out of the box thinking I think that's a good well I don't know if that Jeff let me ask you would this fit in with what you've recommended to to explore it not to recommend we do it but to explore it or should it be something just completely separate for it what I'm kind of thinking of where we end up with all this I'm trying to think about what are practical rest recommendations we can make that could be implementable okay and not get sidetracked into something a little bit like the whole city discussion and go now maybe we could say here are some immediate recommendations we'd like to see you make we also would like to continue to study and so you get the concept out there but you don't tie it so it's okay so how would you how should we do that well should we not I mean I'm throwing it out there I'd like to see it but I'm only one person I think you know my thought is we could kind of come up with a set of recommendations to go because we're trying to do that by the end of June but also put out there that we're going to continue to look at other alternatives and one of those would be a head of the override and we'll look at that and get back to you can I work so I just don't want to tie you we get everything in there like we're going to increase you know the head of the override that could sink the whole thing okay why why not just submit it to them to the board as a as it is as a suggestion and let them determine if we should pursue it further right yeah right yeah which is what our responsibility together that it's like they have to take the whole but we can that's what we can do our next meeting when we kind of all right refine what we're doing very good as long as i can okay yeah thanks thank you i thought you were watching that's what i thought i might want to add that is that you're going to put it on the spot

  16. discussion and go now maybe we could say here are some immediate recommendations we'd like to see you make we also would like to continue to study and so you get the concept out there but you don't tie it so it's okay so how would you how should we do that well should we not I mean I'm throwing it out there I'd like to see it but I'm only one person I think you know my thought is we could kind of come up with a set of recommendations to go because we're trying to do that by the end of June but also put out there that we're going to continue to look at other alternatives and one of those would be a head of the override and we'll look at that and get back to you can I work so I just don't want to tie you we get everything in there like we're going to increase you know the head of the override that could sink the whole thing okay why why not just submit it to them to the board as a as it is as a suggestion and let them determine if we should pursue it further right yeah right yeah which is what our responsibility together that it's like they have to take the whole but we can that's what we can do our next meeting when we kind of all right refine what we're doing very good as long as i can okay yeah thanks thank you i thought you were watching that's what i thought i might want to add that is that you're going to put it on the spot you know don't make it so small that you're just overriding a little last year's millage rate versus the rolled back 26 millage rate uh you know you you would want to go back to and again we'd have to sit down and figure out how that impacts our 10 mil cap but you want to take that i think the roads was three mills that it was approved for originally something something like that you'd want to you'd want to take that and go all the way back you know try and roll it all the way back as far as you can get it not just the difference between 25 millage and 26 millage because that's going to be i mean you might get a half of a mile rose down yeah it's better than nothing but yeah it's not going to accomplish what and then and then you're going to have to do it every year you know so it's going to have to be on the ballot every year if all you're doing is really kind of just going back from from one year to the prior to the prior year you're going to want to go back as high as you can get it so that you know you don't have to do this every every year I was thinking more conceptually right now what's that I was thinking more conceptual all right rather than pragmatic you know

  17. that's what i thought i might want to add that is that you're going to put it on the spot you know don't make it so small that you're just overriding a little last year's millage rate versus the rolled back 26 millage rate uh you know you you would want to go back to and again we'd have to sit down and figure out how that impacts our 10 mil cap but you want to take that i think the roads was three mills that it was approved for originally something something like that you'd want to you'd want to take that and go all the way back you know try and roll it all the way back as far as you can get it not just the difference between 25 millage and 26 millage because that's going to be i mean you might get a half of a mile rose down yeah it's better than nothing but yeah it's not going to accomplish what and then and then you're going to have to do it every year you know so it's going to have to be on the ballot every year if all you're doing is really kind of just going back from from one year to the prior to the prior year you're going to want to go back as high as you can get it so that you know you don't have to do this every every year I was thinking more conceptually right now what's that I was thinking more conceptual all right rather than pragmatic you know institutionalizing it you know doing it yeah when cities go back when cities go out cities are allotted 20 mill so further their the city operating millage they're allowed 20 mills and so what happens is is that some of the old communities they get down to 13 you know 14 mills somewhere in that area after they've been rolled back for so many years what they what they end up doing is they end up going back to the 20 mills so they don't go back from like 13 to 16 mills they go back from 13 to 20 they go all the way back to the start and then start rolling it back in fact that's what you missed that part of it I talked about meeting with the Bingham farms people who do enrolled thing but that's exactly what he said in the treasure said that they're there they were they're authorized to go he said to 12 mills okay and he said they're at 9 okay yeah so he said we want we want to go back to 12 now I know you said 20 because it's well cities are cities they're different in the village okay well he said he's there and that's exactly what he said that they want to go back to 12 yeah yeah and then that's what you know a lot of the back in the crash when the market crashed and you know five six seven eight that's what a lot of cities did they were down in the you know 14 15 mill range and then

  18. institutionalizing it you know doing it yeah when cities go back when cities go out cities are allotted 20 mill so further their the city operating millage they're allowed 20 mills and so what happens is is that some of the old communities they get down to 13 you know 14 mills somewhere in that area after they've been rolled back for so many years what they what they end up doing is they end up going back to the 20 mills so they don't go back from like 13 to 16 mills they go back from 13 to 20 they go all the way back to the start and then start rolling it back in fact that's what you missed that part of it I talked about meeting with the Bingham farms people who do enrolled thing but that's exactly what he said in the treasure said that they're there they were they're authorized to go he said to 12 mills okay and he said they're at 9 okay yeah so he said we want we want to go back to 12 now I know you said 20 because it's well cities are cities they're different in the village okay well he said he's there and that's exactly what he said that they want to go back to 12 yeah yeah and then that's what you know a lot of the back in the crash when the market crashed and you know five six seven eight that's what a lot of cities did they were down in the you know 14 15 mill range and then Some of them were successful, some of them weren't, but they went all the way back to 20 mills. They didn't go to 16 or 18 mills. They went all the way back to the start. They had to have a vote on that, didn't they? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's why I say some of them were successful, some of them weren't. Okay, very good. Yep. All right, I don't want to belabor it. I just want to get it out. Okay. Thanks, Gary. Anything else? Thank you. Anybody have anything else? Any questions or anything else on this first one? That's a good, this is good stuff. Very good. All right, number two. All right. Available, identify available funding from RCOC, from state 26 budgets, and beyond. We have three recommendations in this category for you. And we're all kind of up to date. We had the presentation at the last meeting from the road commission. So we're kind of, you know, how do we, really the question here is trying to identify ways to work with the road commission and in a cooperative, collaborative way to get to getting some recognition and some funding. And the first recommendation is really stating what's going on now. Mike and the staff have been working with the senior staff of the road commission. And over the last year, 18 months, you have seen a better relationship and some funds flowing.

  19. Some of them were successful, some of them weren't, but they went all the way back to 20 mills. They didn't go to 16 or 18 mills. They went all the way back to the start. They had to have a vote on that, didn't they? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's why I say some of them were successful, some of them weren't. Okay, very good. Yep. All right, I don't want to belabor it. I just want to get it out. Okay. Thanks, Gary. Anything else? Thank you. Anybody have anything else? Any questions or anything else on this first one? That's a good, this is good stuff. Very good. All right, number two. All right. Available, identify available funding from RCOC, from state 26 budgets, and beyond. We have three recommendations in this category for you. And we're all kind of up to date. We had the presentation at the last meeting from the road commission. So we're kind of, you know, how do we, really the question here is trying to identify ways to work with the road commission and in a cooperative, collaborative way to get to getting some recognition and some funding. And the first recommendation is really stating what's going on now. Mike and the staff have been working with the senior staff of the road commission. And over the last year, 18 months, you have seen a better relationship and some funds flowing. Because if you look at some of the last SADs, the road commission was willing to participate in that. And they're waiting. help and so while we're just simply stating the obvious in the first recommendation just to continue that relationship continue that outreach and continue to work with them so they we can find ways to work with the available resources as they exist today so that's that's kind of a state in the obvious recommendation two is now getting into this special funding that we talked about and even they admitted into the stuff we got from the house the house fiscal agency that when the funding occurs under the 2026 budget bill with the incremental for local roads was the county would get forty forty five million dollars that would be their share of the pot so to speak and what we're really suggesting with our second recommendation is that we monitor the timing and availability because there's some uncertainty some different time frames whenever that time frame is and stay close to it so we know when the

  20. And over the last year, 18 months, you have seen a better relationship and some funds flowing. Because if you look at some of the last SADs, the road commission was willing to participate in that. And they're waiting. help and so while we're just simply stating the obvious in the first recommendation just to continue that relationship continue that outreach and continue to work with them so they we can find ways to work with the available resources as they exist today so that's that's kind of a state in the obvious recommendation two is now getting into this special funding that we talked about and even they admitted into the stuff we got from the house the house fiscal agency that when the funding occurs under the 2026 budget bill with the incremental for local roads was the county would get forty forty five million dollars that would be their share of the pot so to speak and what we're really suggesting with our second recommendation is that we monitor the timing and availability because there's some uncertainty some different time frames whenever that time frame is and stay close to it so we know when the money starts to get freed up and then meet with you know be able to monitor that know what's going on then meet with the road commission senior staff to talk about our needs which we'll get into recommendation three their process are going how they're going to allocate that additional incremental 45 million to local roads and then you know and request some specific funding for the township it's a process issue it's having us work and so it's a way to get prepared and be ready so when the money comes available we're not sitting there to say not what are we going to do we've already been proactive and we have a way to be the first ones in the door so to speak so that's what that recommendation is then the third recommendation really talks about possibly getting an update so to help provide the documentation and the analysis of the PACER analysis and I know there's it's done under certain time frames so it's a question is can we get something more current on the PACER report so we could use that as a basis for what we're doing in our analysis and saying these are the improvements

  21. frames whenever that time frame is and stay close to it so we know when the money starts to get freed up and then meet with you know be able to monitor that know what's going on then meet with the road commission senior staff to talk about our needs which we'll get into recommendation three their process are going how they're going to allocate that additional incremental 45 million to local roads and then you know and request some specific funding for the township it's a process issue it's having us work and so it's a way to get prepared and be ready so when the money comes available we're not sitting there to say not what are we going to do we've already been proactive and we have a way to be the first ones in the door so to speak so that's what that recommendation is then the third recommendation really talks about possibly getting an update so to help provide the documentation and the analysis of the PACER analysis and I know there's it's done under certain time frames so it's a question is can we get something more current on the PACER report so we could use that as a basis for what we're doing in our analysis and saying these are the improvements this is the condition of the roads and not have something that's three years out of date and I don't know that so that's the question I don't know how that PACER works I don't maybe somebody else does so but that's the whole idea to get that and get so we this is the process of identifying our needs and we have back back back up and quantitative and analytical data to go when we go to the Road Commission and I also we decided to put a time frame if it's possible because you know maybe funds will start to come in the latter part of 26 early 27 could that PACER analysis be updated by 9 30 26 and Mike maybe you can I just don't know what it takes to get a PACER report done I think the county, road functions, performs that, but that's great to stay on top of that because we need to have that updated information, especially with all these new roads, and I think, was it Steve that said his road was redone seven years ago and it got a yellow, or was that you, John? No, I think it was Steve Harris. Yeah, Steve, yeah. Again, just recognizing the reality, me personally, I think the rest of us,

  22. that as a basis for what we're doing in our analysis and saying these are the improvements this is the condition of the roads and not have something that's three years out of date and I don't know that so that's the question I don't know how that PACER works I don't maybe somebody else does so but that's the whole idea to get that and get so we this is the process of identifying our needs and we have back back back up and quantitative and analytical data to go when we go to the Road Commission and I also we decided to put a time frame if it's possible because you know maybe funds will start to come in the latter part of 26 early 27 could that PACER analysis be updated by 9 30 26 and Mike maybe you can I just don't know what it takes to get a PACER report done I think the county, road functions, performs that, but that's great to stay on top of that because we need to have that updated information, especially with all these new roads, and I think, was it Steve that said his road was redone seven years ago and it got a yellow, or was that you, John? No, I think it was Steve Harris. Yeah, Steve, yeah. Again, just recognizing the reality, me personally, I think the rest of us, were anticipating those funds being available now, and there was a little bit of an education to find out this is, they may have budgeted, you know, three, four, five months ago, but it's going to take 12, 18 months before the money becomes reality, and we know there's also a complication with a lawsuit for part of the money and that type of thing, but this is just to get us ready, but in the process of getting ready, continue to work on relationship building. Excellent job, you provided a draft, and, you know, one of the things I want to, sort of, I wasn't here at the Gary's presentation, but I've seen his road commission presentation, and I'm, I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that getting a huge amount of money from the state under, under this new bill is a, is a real possibility. So, if we are... a township is expecting 45 million plus or minus, you know, part of gold at the end of the year or whenever. We should have our priority of which subdivisions or which

  23. were anticipating those funds being available now, and there was a little bit of an education to find out this is, they may have budgeted, you know, three, four, five months ago, but it's going to take 12, 18 months before the money becomes reality, and we know there's also a complication with a lawsuit for part of the money and that type of thing, but this is just to get us ready, but in the process of getting ready, continue to work on relationship building. Excellent job, you provided a draft, and, you know, one of the things I want to, sort of, I wasn't here at the Gary's presentation, but I've seen his road commission presentation, and I'm, I'm not sure, but I'm guessing that getting a huge amount of money from the state under, under this new bill is a, is a real possibility. So, if we are... a township is expecting 45 million plus or minus, you know, part of gold at the end of the year or whenever. We should have our priority of which subdivisions or which local roads, you know, it's like a shovel-ready projects, you know, so that when the funds are available we can start draining that part and my experience is with Road Commission and other agencies like MDOT is faster you draw the money and then some other communities may not have anything ready and they still have the fund for fiscal year they start putting where people are actually using it. So if you don't use it, you lose it at the end of the fiscal year. That's my understanding. So I think it's already said that in this, but I just wanted to emphasize that that's where we should be, we should be prepared to draw the money from that as soon as that's available rather than spending another six months a year to find which roads are going to get attention, you know. Well, if money is comes from that 45 million, let's say certain amount X amount is going to go to the township. Do they have to specify a project? on your project? You, for the last month, you have to look at the stock the stock market? Click on your stock market,

  24. our priority of which subdivisions or which local roads, you know, it's like a shovel-ready projects, you know, so that when the funds are available we can start draining that part and my experience is with Road Commission and other agencies like MDOT is faster you draw the money and then some other communities may not have anything ready and they still have the fund for fiscal year they start putting where people are actually using it. So if you don't use it, you lose it at the end of the fiscal year. That's my understanding. So I think it's already said that in this, but I just wanted to emphasize that that's where we should be, we should be prepared to draw the money from that as soon as that's available rather than spending another six months a year to find which roads are going to get attention, you know. Well, if money is comes from that 45 million, let's say certain amount X amount is going to go to the township. Do they have to specify a project? on your project? You, for the last month, you have to look at the stock the stock market? Click on your stock market, Or does it just come to the township as a lump sum and say, okay, spend it where you think it's needed? My understanding is, and correct me if I'm wrong, they would spend that money for us, but if we give them a list of roads that we think... Well, that's right. They won't be giving the money. They'll be doing the work. Here is, for example, your subdivision, and here is $8 million for this project. And that's the worst road in the township, you know, because the Pazer diagram is for the whole county, you know. It doesn't have room-filled township as such. So if we can, you know, move ahead and come up with something and prioritize A, B, C, D, E, so here's five projects that are going to use $45 million, so 10 projects that we think is our priority, and they would then be using that rather than them deciding, and it takes a long time for them to decide, you know, where they're going to spend money. It just seemed very apparent in Gary's from Road Commission presentation that despite the fact we've earmarked neighborhood road money,

  25. Or does it just come to the township as a lump sum and say, okay, spend it where you think it's needed? My understanding is, and correct me if I'm wrong, they would spend that money for us, but if we give them a list of roads that we think... Well, that's right. They won't be giving the money. They'll be doing the work. Here is, for example, your subdivision, and here is $8 million for this project. And that's the worst road in the township, you know, because the Pazer diagram is for the whole county, you know. It doesn't have room-filled township as such. So if we can, you know, move ahead and come up with something and prioritize A, B, C, D, E, so here's five projects that are going to use $45 million, so 10 projects that we think is our priority, and they would then be using that rather than them deciding, and it takes a long time for them to decide, you know, where they're going to spend money. It just seemed very apparent in Gary's from Road Commission presentation that despite the fact we've earmarked neighborhood road money, it's still going to be up to them based on traffic volume and safety. So we can earmark all we want, but if we're working with the Road Commission. They're not going to prioritize what we think is a higher priority, and they're not going to tell you And that's the other part They can hold back like right to the set 11th hour my experience with Commission and other agencies in variety of counties if you Give them the if you did your homework and diligence and You know close condition payment assessment some some investment into coming up with the our priorities and Rationale for it. I think then they don't have to do They can't say no because now you have the data It's a database priority Because then it doesn't take that long, you know because You know bureaucracy it might take another six months eight months before you can use that money

  26. that despite the fact we've earmarked neighborhood road money, it's still going to be up to them based on traffic volume and safety. So we can earmark all we want, but if we're working with the Road Commission. They're not going to prioritize what we think is a higher priority, and they're not going to tell you And that's the other part They can hold back like right to the set 11th hour my experience with Commission and other agencies in variety of counties if you Give them the if you did your homework and diligence and You know close condition payment assessment some some investment into coming up with the our priorities and Rationale for it. I think then they don't have to do They can't say no because now you have the data It's a database priority Because then it doesn't take that long, you know because You know bureaucracy it might take another six months eight months before you can use that money Picking up from your point is I agree with what Gary was saying that they have their needs and their demands and what they think and they think They're underfunded part of what we're trying to say is to develop those relationships be there have those conversation so a portion of that 45 goes to local roads and then we're there with some projects that they can Proceed with because I agree there without a voice there without voices maybe from other townships could just take the whole 45 and say work on our projects never say a dime to local roads and we're trying to advocate for local roads get visibility for local roads and have and have them up front so we can get some do everything we can to make sure we get some money I think that part of that goes right along with this recommendation one with you communicate township needs and identification etc because according to what they said is that there's absolutely no obligation to the road commission to put any of that 45 million into neighborhood roads as defined by my driveway you know and so we I think in that exactly right we need to impress upon them that some of that does need to come this way and that's part of working with them I think you know in a positive way

  27. Picking up from your point is I agree with what Gary was saying that they have their needs and their demands and what they think and they think They're underfunded part of what we're trying to say is to develop those relationships be there have those conversation so a portion of that 45 goes to local roads and then we're there with some projects that they can Proceed with because I agree there without a voice there without voices maybe from other townships could just take the whole 45 and say work on our projects never say a dime to local roads and we're trying to advocate for local roads get visibility for local roads and have and have them up front so we can get some do everything we can to make sure we get some money I think that part of that goes right along with this recommendation one with you communicate township needs and identification etc because according to what they said is that there's absolutely no obligation to the road commission to put any of that 45 million into neighborhood roads as defined by my driveway you know and so we I think in that exactly right we need to impress upon them that some of that does need to come this way and that's part of working with them I think you know in a positive way I hate to be an obstructor but my my experience with the road commission is that they're very bureaucratic and they're going to use the money how they want to use the money my one of the things I would like us to look into Mike maybe the townships legal council could look into it through federal guidelines the road commission and I go into more detail in our presentation for Mindy and I did but the road commission owns the roads the residential roads and in Bloomfield township they don't get any money for it but they own it I'm not sure that that absolves them of their responsibility under the under the Disabilities Act and it might be a way to present a federal lawsuit to force them to cooperate with us to come up with the money well I told you my daughter was involved in a lawsuit where she brought Birmingham to the table through through a federal lawsuit for what they were doing with their roads and parking it was twenty million dollars right and and it went

  28. this way and that's part of working with them I think you know in a positive way I hate to be an obstructor but my my experience with the road commission is that they're very bureaucratic and they're going to use the money how they want to use the money my one of the things I would like us to look into Mike maybe the townships legal council could look into it through federal guidelines the road commission and I go into more detail in our presentation for Mindy and I did but the road commission owns the roads the residential roads and in Bloomfield township they don't get any money for it but they own it I'm not sure that that absolves them of their responsibility under the under the Disabilities Act and it might be a way to present a federal lawsuit to force them to cooperate with us to come up with the money well I told you my daughter was involved in a lawsuit where she brought Birmingham to the table through through a federal lawsuit for what they were doing with their roads and parking it was twenty million dollars right and and it went to fixing the problems and so I think it's it's definitely something I feel it's a stick that I feel we should use at the end of the day we're a township we're independent they are not our friends there are there are friends when they want to be our friends but they're not our friends and we need I think to look at every specific Avenue where we can and and since we don't they have the legal responsibility of ownership of the roads I'm not an attorney I'm certainly not an ADA attorney but I'm not sure that that absolves them of their liability for making sure that the roads meet ADA criteria that's interesting okay the topic alone might bring them to the table yeah or you could put duct tape over there no yeah they've already got a roll of duct tape tape handy okay hi anything else on this on these that's very very good stuff in here very well done okay then let's move on um i apologize for the lack of some clarity of some of my my keynotes

  29. their roads and parking it was twenty million dollars right and and it went to fixing the problems and so I think it's it's definitely something I feel it's a stick that I feel we should use at the end of the day we're a township we're independent they are not our friends there are there are friends when they want to be our friends but they're not our friends and we need I think to look at every specific Avenue where we can and and since we don't they have the legal responsibility of ownership of the roads I'm not an attorney I'm certainly not an ADA attorney but I'm not sure that that absolves them of their liability for making sure that the roads meet ADA criteria that's interesting okay the topic alone might bring them to the table yeah or you could put duct tape over there no yeah they've already got a roll of duct tape tape handy okay hi anything else on this on these that's very very good stuff in here very well done okay then let's move on um i apologize for the lack of some clarity of some of my my keynotes but this kind of shows you the way i think which is probably confusing in the way it is um um basically it it just goes through and reiterates kind of what everyone's been talking about and about the constraints of the 10 mil uh limits and sads and things and when you get down to the really the nitty-gritty is on the second i'll be on the on the back end i'm going to go through yeah um um the neighborhood project summary for me kind of uh some way or another the last um projects that were done were all in birming well we call it like bloomfield township and they were able to to secure forty five hundred dollars eighty nine hundred dollars and eleven thousand dollars in refunds per unit so when when we're going to get the five million dollars or whatever we're going to get from the state this forty million dollars

  30. okay then let's move on um i apologize for the lack of some clarity of some of my my keynotes but this kind of shows you the way i think which is probably confusing in the way it is um um basically it it just goes through and reiterates kind of what everyone's been talking about and about the constraints of the 10 mil uh limits and sads and things and when you get down to the really the nitty-gritty is on the second i'll be on the on the back end i'm going to go through yeah um um the neighborhood project summary for me kind of uh some way or another the last um projects that were done were all in birming well we call it like bloomfield township and they were able to to secure forty five hundred dollars eighty nine hundred dollars and eleven thousand dollars in refunds per unit so when when we're going to get the five million dollars or whatever we're going to get from the state this forty million dollars parts one could ask it would be very easy to come up with a formula because i believe the the real logger jam is who's going to get the money and if you have an sad in a certain subdivision that can be subsidized by these column column mini grants um and you get people in the in the subdivision willing to spend some of their own money and you get the township to spend some of its money you can come to it you you eliminate a lot of the of the issues that will arise about who's going to be first in line because if you have all your ducks in a row and you're ready to go and we're able to say let's just say the average is eight thousand dollars per per lot that we're able to subsidize because that's pretty close so now instead of the person having to pay what would it be sixty thousand he's got to pay fifty two thousand and but their project is launched as you know as soon as it can be done and then um i i just think that's what we

  31. parts one could ask it would be very easy to come up with a formula because i believe the the real logger jam is who's going to get the money and if you have an sad in a certain subdivision that can be subsidized by these column column mini grants um and you get people in the in the subdivision willing to spend some of their own money and you get the township to spend some of its money you can come to it you you eliminate a lot of the of the issues that will arise about who's going to be first in line because if you have all your ducks in a row and you're ready to go and we're able to say let's just say the average is eight thousand dollars per per lot that we're able to subsidize because that's pretty close so now instead of the person having to pay what would it be sixty thousand he's got to pay fifty two thousand and but their project is launched as you know as soon as it can be done and then um i i just think that's what we have to think about how that mess is going to be easy to wade through because it's going to be horrible you know these people that have already paid their money they don't want to see anybody else get any money you know you we're not an altruistic society so because I have something doesn't mean I should share that with you at least that's the way some people are and so I look at it and I say that's to me that's something that we need to consider to come up with a some side of an SAD formula where we use these these pools of money that have been made available to us and I think through cooperation the the the the Road Commission was they were that's isn't that where they got the money for these refunds Mike no the refunds were really from the cost came in lower but they also were putting a reserve that fund away and the reserve balance was just too high so that was some of it and then so it was a kind of going by the amount right so I and I don't I must say I'm not an engineer so I don't understand why that there was such a disparity and how much each lot was

  32. project is launched as you know as soon as it can be done and then um i i just think that's what we have to think about how that mess is going to be easy to wade through because it's going to be horrible you know these people that have already paid their money they don't want to see anybody else get any money you know you we're not an altruistic society so because I have something doesn't mean I should share that with you at least that's the way some people are and so I look at it and I say that's to me that's something that we need to consider to come up with a some side of an SAD formula where we use these these pools of money that have been made available to us and I think through cooperation the the the the Road Commission was they were that's isn't that where they got the money for these refunds Mike no the refunds were really from the cost came in lower but they also were putting a reserve that fund away and the reserve balance was just too high so that was some of it and then so it was a kind of going by the amount right so I and I don't I must say I'm not an engineer so I don't understand why that there was such a disparity and how much each lot was getting charged and there were sewers involved and things like that but I just think we have to come up with something to give the the people to say okay we're going to subsidize you by 50 to 50 percent whatever the cost is and at that point in time I think that the frustration is is at a level that people just say fine there'll be more likely to say I'm all in like in our subdivision I went through and you only have to replace about twenty to thirty percent of the concrete it's all cement and it's and that's kind of in line with what we did with your one of your predecessors before this last predecessor that one way back and so you just go okay that's that's what it is I think right today the way the feelings are we had a kid break his leg make his arm riding his bike the kids can't ride their bikes everybody kind of sees it we got these kids riding these super scooters they're probably going 30 miles an hour the kids got no helmet on what you know I could say it's not my fault and they're just cruising along they're

  33. I don't understand why that there was such a disparity and how much each lot was getting charged and there were sewers involved and things like that but I just think we have to come up with something to give the the people to say okay we're going to subsidize you by 50 to 50 percent whatever the cost is and at that point in time I think that the frustration is is at a level that people just say fine there'll be more likely to say I'm all in like in our subdivision I went through and you only have to replace about twenty to thirty percent of the concrete it's all cement and it's and that's kind of in line with what we did with your one of your predecessors before this last predecessor that one way back and so you just go okay that's that's what it is I think right today the way the feelings are we had a kid break his leg make his arm riding his bike the kids can't ride their bikes everybody kind of sees it we got these kids riding these super scooters they're probably going 30 miles an hour the kids got no helmet on what you know I could say it's not my fault and they're just cruising along they're gonna hit it and you know the crack is this big I said they're gonna hit a crack and you can't even walk on the street and you know it's it's I think people are frustrated to a point well they're just don't go in and do it and are you you know is it we could if you get more money then you could increase the allocation for a lot you get less money you know somewhere another I think there has to be something thought about how are you going to prioritize who stands first in line to get the money which I don't want to be in the room or if you if you if you make the rule if you if you have these things ready then we'll consider your you know your application or something like that that's that's the gist of what i kind of came to having gone through this and failed have people um approve it and as soon as it they it failed everybody said well i would have voted for i said okay one thing i think you need to be careful of is that yes they they got they didn't really get they didn't get a refund really it's not well it's still money is money but it's not new money that came in it's because the cost was over projected

  34. you know I could say it's not my fault and they're just cruising along they're gonna hit it and you know the crack is this big I said they're gonna hit a crack and you can't even walk on the street and you know it's it's I think people are frustrated to a point well they're just don't go in and do it and are you you know is it we could if you get more money then you could increase the allocation for a lot you get less money you know somewhere another I think there has to be something thought about how are you going to prioritize who stands first in line to get the money which I don't want to be in the room or if you if you if you make the rule if you if you have these things ready then we'll consider your you know your application or something like that that's that's the gist of what i kind of came to having gone through this and failed have people um approve it and as soon as it they it failed everybody said well i would have voted for i said okay one thing i think you need to be careful of is that yes they they got they didn't really get they didn't get a refund really it's not well it's still money is money but it's not new money that came in it's because the cost was over projected and the reserves were over estimated i mean i'm sorry and so the it's not that they they got a pile of cash it's just now that what they owe is going to be lower well if they if they didn't have that they would have had to pay it no i get that but maybe the recommendation is is that we is that the the estimates and the engineering has to be has to be looked at closer by our people to make sure they're not overestimating the costs to make it and because we have to bond that extra cost or you can make them always pay for that fee which is what they ended up justifying it the engineering and the estimating fees are part of the deal if you want to do an sad you have an sad fund you have an engineering fund and you have an actual construction fund the construction fund is that's what the sad and and the the bucket of money over here there's a sharing of those funds you but the and it's part it's one of the criticism that a lot of the neighborhoods have voiced and i don't know if it's it's it's not on it's it's it's not untrue in some cases that they they

  35. still money is money but it's not new money that came in it's because the cost was over projected and the reserves were over estimated i mean i'm sorry and so the it's not that they they got a pile of cash it's just now that what they owe is going to be lower well if they if they didn't have that they would have had to pay it no i get that but maybe the recommendation is is that we is that the the estimates and the engineering has to be has to be looked at closer by our people to make sure they're not overestimating the costs to make it and because we have to bond that extra cost or you can make them always pay for that fee which is what they ended up justifying it the engineering and the estimating fees are part of the deal if you want to do an sad you have an sad fund you have an engineering fund and you have an actual construction fund the construction fund is that's what the sad and and the the bucket of money over here there's a sharing of those funds you but the and it's part it's one of the criticism that a lot of the neighborhoods have voiced and i don't know if it's it's it's not on it's it's it's not untrue in some cases that they they overestimate how much it's going to be because they think if they get more money that they're gonna it'll be it'll you know they can be sloppy on their construction and we we should we should uh be be aware of that and kind of just go on but that's sort of where i'm at with that with this because otherwise i i you know we're floating around while we're getting this money you have a lot of roads that have to be addressed how are you going to pick them out there are some ideas when we get to ours there's some ideas that we float in in our presentation of how you go about doing that yeah i think you have to do it where the revenue comes from i just want to uh clarify as an engineer uh the estimate you know it's usually they put 30 percent contingency in the estimate and when it it goes uh beyond what they estimated you know the help breaks loose you know nobody likes to pay more what they're told so you know it's a human nature engineers being a human they would estimate they put you Thank you.

  36. i don't know if it's it's it's not on it's it's it's not untrue in some cases that they they overestimate how much it's going to be because they think if they get more money that they're gonna it'll be it'll you know they can be sloppy on their construction and we we should we should uh be be aware of that and kind of just go on but that's sort of where i'm at with that with this because otherwise i i you know we're floating around while we're getting this money you have a lot of roads that have to be addressed how are you going to pick them out there are some ideas when we get to ours there's some ideas that we float in in our presentation of how you go about doing that yeah i think you have to do it where the revenue comes from i just want to uh clarify as an engineer uh the estimate you know it's usually they put 30 percent contingency in the estimate and when it it goes uh beyond what they estimated you know the help breaks loose you know nobody likes to pay more what they're told so you know it's a human nature engineers being a human they would estimate they put you Thank you. 30 percent contingency in every estimate so that it covers in case of some sewer break or waterway break or something while happening and included in that project. People love to get money back, but if they don't want to pay more, if the construction estimate contracted bids higher than what was estimated, then it's hard. So I think just to clarify how the estimates work, if you lower the estimate and actually the bids come in higher, then what do you do? Either you reject all the bids or you start over again. Well, but the question is though, the bid came in at X. The bid came in at X and you said, okay, do it. But the construction cost, the actual cost of it came in at X minus something. The problem is when the bid come in, you accept the bid, one of the problems is that you bond. Am I right? You bond for the X, but now the construction cost is X minus something, but you've already bonded and you're paying interest on that.

  37. 30 percent contingency in every estimate so that it covers in case of some sewer break or waterway break or something while happening and included in that project. People love to get money back, but if they don't want to pay more, if the construction estimate contracted bids higher than what was estimated, then it's hard. So I think just to clarify how the estimates work, if you lower the estimate and actually the bids come in higher, then what do you do? Either you reject all the bids or you start over again. Well, but the question is though, the bid came in at X. The bid came in at X and you said, okay, do it. But the construction cost, the actual cost of it came in at X minus something. The problem is when the bid come in, you accept the bid, one of the problems is that you bond. Am I right? You bond for the X, but now the construction cost is X minus something, but you've already bonded and you're paying interest on that. And that's an issue because that's more money that has to come out of the township. But the point I made before is it's not like someone paid the $50,000 and now they're getting $8,000 back. So, let's go back. So, let's go back. So, let's go back. So, I'm leaving. They were told they're going to pay this $50,000, and then all of them said, no, you're not going to pay that, you're going to pay $42,000, okay? So they didn't actually get a refund, they just got an adjustment in what they're going to owe in the next 10, 15 years, whatever that is. But see, the problem, that's all well and good, and the assignment you got was just to see what the funding was, what the millage was, or what the funding is. The problem is that even, so at $42,000, it's still way too much. Even though it came in lower, and so you got $8,000 reduced in what you're going to owe, it's still way too much. It's still a lot of money, okay? And so I think part of the things that Jeff's report or the earlier reports talked about is how are we going to get more money into the system, more participation, so that that $42,000 then becomes $22,000 or some other number, you know, it comes down from there. That's all, but just because they got a reduction in what's going to happen in the future, it's still way too much money.

  38. but you've already bonded and you're paying interest on that. And that's an issue because that's more money that has to come out of the township. But the point I made before is it's not like someone paid the $50,000 and now they're getting $8,000 back. So, let's go back. So, let's go back. So, let's go back. So, I'm leaving. They were told they're going to pay this $50,000, and then all of them said, no, you're not going to pay that, you're going to pay $42,000, okay? So they didn't actually get a refund, they just got an adjustment in what they're going to owe in the next 10, 15 years, whatever that is. But see, the problem, that's all well and good, and the assignment you got was just to see what the funding was, what the millage was, or what the funding is. The problem is that even, so at $42,000, it's still way too much. Even though it came in lower, and so you got $8,000 reduced in what you're going to owe, it's still way too much. It's still a lot of money, okay? And so I think part of the things that Jeff's report or the earlier reports talked about is how are we going to get more money into the system, more participation, so that that $42,000 then becomes $22,000 or some other number, you know, it comes down from there. That's all, but just because they got a reduction in what's going to happen in the future, it's still way too much money. And again, I said Bingham Farms was $6,000, here it's $60,000. Now, okay, no, it's not $60,000, it's $48,000 because it was a $12,000 reduction. Okay, so now it's $48,000. You see where I'm going with that? I mean, it's still way too high, no matter how you slice it. So I think, well, okay, that's fine. Let's continue. Any other questions about that? I just want to ask- These are just thoughts. Okay. Go ahead. No, that's- Oh, I want to ask a question about one other thing though. I don't know- No, I don't- That's do we help from you? I don't know where it's going to fit in this. Maybe it's coming. Looking at other alternatives where we talked about the township pulling permits from the county to do something less expensive than total rebuild down to the, you know, where it's possible to reduce those costs. Where does that, where does that recommendation fit into, anything we've already talked about? Or is that coming, where would that fit? I haven't seen that, but that's, I think it would be negotiable with the county, the road commission. Okay. I mean, especially like in Westchester Village, I mean, we've done some carve outs there, right, and it turned out very well. Extremely well, right. Right. Okay, but I'm just saying on a macro level, where in this report would that, would that come in?

  39. And again, I said Bingham Farms was $6,000, here it's $60,000. Now, okay, no, it's not $60,000, it's $48,000 because it was a $12,000 reduction. Okay, so now it's $48,000. You see where I'm going with that? I mean, it's still way too high, no matter how you slice it. So I think, well, okay, that's fine. Let's continue. Any other questions about that? I just want to ask- These are just thoughts. Okay. Go ahead. No, that's- Oh, I want to ask a question about one other thing though. I don't know- No, I don't- That's do we help from you? I don't know where it's going to fit in this. Maybe it's coming. Looking at other alternatives where we talked about the township pulling permits from the county to do something less expensive than total rebuild down to the, you know, where it's possible to reduce those costs. Where does that, where does that recommendation fit into, anything we've already talked about? Or is that coming, where would that fit? I haven't seen that, but that's, I think it would be negotiable with the county, the road commission. Okay. I mean, especially like in Westchester Village, I mean, we've done some carve outs there, right, and it turned out very well. Extremely well, right. Right. Okay, but I'm just saying on a macro level, where in this report would that, would that come in? I mean, we have to let people know that that is an alternative that we're looking at. Mm-hm. Where would we put that, under what, under what topic is what I'm, what I'm getting at? I think we have to, we don't have it in any of these topics. Okay. And any of these outline items. Okay. All right. Well, we'll talk about it. Okay. Good. Moving on. Anything else on that subject? All right. Then moving to item five, investigate any funding possibilities for Oakland County, federal, et cetera. Okay. Thank you. Mike and Steve, who's not here. Yes. Yes. So just also, I want to apologize. There is a ribbon cutting for a new credit union, Dearborn Federal Credit Union, opening up a telegraph. If I need to be. Thank you. there. So I'm going to leave at 530. I apologize. But time. Well, we're increasing the tax base. So that can't be that good. Yeah. Yeah, but we're reducing the millage. We're reducing the millage. So I apologize. But we looked at the relationship with the county and the county leaders because what we're trying to do here is to reduce and have more participation with these costs in roads, right? Like Jeff was saying, how do we get that number down so it isn't such

  40. I mean, we have to let people know that that is an alternative that we're looking at. Mm-hm. Where would we put that, under what, under what topic is what I'm, what I'm getting at? I think we have to, we don't have it in any of these topics. Okay. And any of these outline items. Okay. All right. Well, we'll talk about it. Okay. Good. Moving on. Anything else on that subject? All right. Then moving to item five, investigate any funding possibilities for Oakland County, federal, et cetera. Okay. Thank you. Mike and Steve, who's not here. Yes. Yes. So just also, I want to apologize. There is a ribbon cutting for a new credit union, Dearborn Federal Credit Union, opening up a telegraph. If I need to be. Thank you. there. So I'm going to leave at 530. I apologize. But time. Well, we're increasing the tax base. So that can't be that good. Yeah. Yeah, but we're reducing the millage. We're reducing the millage. So I apologize. But we looked at the relationship with the county and the county leaders because what we're trying to do here is to reduce and have more participation with these costs in roads, right? Like Jeff was saying, how do we get that number down so it isn't such a burden to the homeowner, number one? The state, we're still working with the state, looking at additional road funding constantly. We have to stay there to keep petitioning them for their assistance. And then as the federal government, most of that money goes to just our federal roads, my understanding. You know, what they give to us is for, I think, our federal highways. I don't think any of that trickles down to the county or local roads. It goes through MDOT. Yeah. Right. It goes through MDOT. But I want to just bring to light that when we take on an SAD, we're taking on debt. And how much SAD debt should the township take on? Because eventually it's going to affect, it could affect, and we don't know, it could affect our SAD. S&P rating. And if our S&P rating right now, we have a triple A rating, if it gets changed, that changes our credit score and what we can borrow for, right? So do we look at how

  41. in roads, right? Like Jeff was saying, how do we get that number down so it isn't such a burden to the homeowner, number one? The state, we're still working with the state, looking at additional road funding constantly. We have to stay there to keep petitioning them for their assistance. And then as the federal government, most of that money goes to just our federal roads, my understanding. You know, what they give to us is for, I think, our federal highways. I don't think any of that trickles down to the county or local roads. It goes through MDOT. Yeah. Right. It goes through MDOT. But I want to just bring to light that when we take on an SAD, we're taking on debt. And how much SAD debt should the township take on? Because eventually it's going to affect, it could affect, and we don't know, it could affect our SAD. S&P rating. And if our S&P rating right now, we have a triple A rating, if it gets changed, that changes our credit score and what we can borrow for, right? So do we look at how much debt do we take on because we're really only at the tip of the iceberg with these SADs. If you look, we have over 200 miles of roads. I couldn't even guesstimate how many road miles we've done so far. Do you take on and you create a number, and this may not be for the committee, maybe this is more just go to the trustees, but you set a number and say let's call it, I'm just throwing a number out there, $70 million or $75 million of debt the township would take on. Once you hit that, you have to wait until another SAD is paid off and that's removed and then we can take on new debt. Or if we can't take any more debt, do they just have to go to the county and have the county handle the SAD and it comes out of our hands? So just a thought. And again, I think the objective here is we we need to understand regular cash flow to do two things, road maintenance and road repair and rebuilding. And you

  42. that changes our credit score and what we can borrow for, right? So do we look at how much debt do we take on because we're really only at the tip of the iceberg with these SADs. If you look, we have over 200 miles of roads. I couldn't even guesstimate how many road miles we've done so far. Do you take on and you create a number, and this may not be for the committee, maybe this is more just go to the trustees, but you set a number and say let's call it, I'm just throwing a number out there, $70 million or $75 million of debt the township would take on. Once you hit that, you have to wait until another SAD is paid off and that's removed and then we can take on new debt. Or if we can't take any more debt, do they just have to go to the county and have the county handle the SAD and it comes out of our hands? So just a thought. And again, I think the objective here is we we need to understand regular cash flow to do two things, road maintenance and road repair and rebuilding. And you When I talk about road maintenance, I look at the village that just has all these new roads. Well, within the next five to seven years, those roads through frost and freeze will start to show wear and tear, cracking, which means we're going to have to come in and do filling, right? Crack filling, yeah. Crack filling and maybe other repair. And we'll work with the county on that. And then we'll have to have money set aside. And you've got to think long term that the new roads are 30-year estimate life, right? So we're setting up not just for today, but we're setting up a pattern for the next 25 to 30 years. So we need revenue to do that. So let's just keep those things in mind that I get where people who have paid for SADs now don't want to pay any more, but they may need the maintenance in the next five to seven years and any major default in the road because warranties will be all expired, somebody's going to have to come in and fix that road for them because they're going to expect it, right? Well, except in those, let's say it's five years before you have to do some crack filling or whatever,

  43. When I talk about road maintenance, I look at the village that just has all these new roads. Well, within the next five to seven years, those roads through frost and freeze will start to show wear and tear, cracking, which means we're going to have to come in and do filling, right? Crack filling, yeah. Crack filling and maybe other repair. And we'll work with the county on that. And then we'll have to have money set aside. And you've got to think long term that the new roads are 30-year estimate life, right? So we're setting up not just for today, but we're setting up a pattern for the next 25 to 30 years. So we need revenue to do that. So let's just keep those things in mind that I get where people who have paid for SADs now don't want to pay any more, but they may need the maintenance in the next five to seven years and any major default in the road because warranties will be all expired, somebody's going to have to come in and fix that road for them because they're going to expect it, right? Well, except in those, let's say it's five years before you have to do some crack filling or whatever, those five years you have zero, zero money spent. That's right. None. That's right. Where you would have had if they hadn't been rebuilt. Yep, that's right. The other thing is, you talked about the credit rating. Now, Supposing, shouldn't we know, let's say we're a triple A rating, okay, so now we're at let's say 75 million, but you go over that, all of a sudden they may, standard poor's may say, well now you're double A plus, what's the difference? It'd be a difference in the interest rate, I'm sure, by what? Is it enough to matter or is it going to shut us, no more, you can't borrow it? We don't know the answer to that either. Maybe we're willing to go there if that happens. Maybe we're willing to go to double A plus. Right. Maybe it's de minimis. Right. What? It's de minimis. Yes. It's not enough to care about. Care about. Well that's what I meant, that's my point. Is it, right? Yeah. So we could talk about it and I don't, you know, when you're slicing the bread that thin, okay, so now they win, you've got a worse credit rating. Well the other thing is, would they reduce it, because this debt is a guaranteed repayment, it's not like a debt that could be defaulted on. It's coming in, it's going on on your tax bill.

  44. Well, except in those, let's say it's five years before you have to do some crack filling or whatever, those five years you have zero, zero money spent. That's right. None. That's right. Where you would have had if they hadn't been rebuilt. Yep, that's right. The other thing is, you talked about the credit rating. Now, Supposing, shouldn't we know, let's say we're a triple A rating, okay, so now we're at let's say 75 million, but you go over that, all of a sudden they may, standard poor's may say, well now you're double A plus, what's the difference? It'd be a difference in the interest rate, I'm sure, by what? Is it enough to matter or is it going to shut us, no more, you can't borrow it? We don't know the answer to that either. Maybe we're willing to go there if that happens. Maybe we're willing to go to double A plus. Right. Maybe it's de minimis. Right. What? It's de minimis. Yes. It's not enough to care about. Care about. Well that's what I meant, that's my point. Is it, right? Yeah. So we could talk about it and I don't, you know, when you're slicing the bread that thin, okay, so now they win, you've got a worse credit rating. Well the other thing is, would they reduce it, because this debt is a guaranteed repayment, it's not like a debt that could be defaulted on. It's coming in, it's going on on your tax bill. Mm-hmm. You know, it's an SAD. Right. It's not like we're borrowing money that, you know, it could, we could default on it, because we just don't have the revenue. Right. But it's a guaranteed income stream. Right. From that. So the other question would be, the experts to answer, would, if we went over that amount, would it actually change, because this is a guaranteed revenue stream, to repay it? Right. Okay. So just some thoughts, and I apologize, but I want to, I've got to support the community. And then the last thing, and this is more for. fred and mindy in their report so i talked to some of the engineers both at the road commission our engineers and we talked about heavy road equipment on our roads and they indicated um we might have left off that we need to include in there fred is uh trash trucks are very damaging to our roads because of the weight they carry and the axles so what trash trucks oh trash trash trucks probably the heaviest truck comes down our road anytime that's what they're saying well i go into more detail in our in our discussion yeah i read your report yeah but essentially uh what uh what the road commission told us was that uh council can't make any rules on what type of truck or what type

  45. It's coming in, it's going on on your tax bill. Mm-hmm. You know, it's an SAD. Right. It's not like we're borrowing money that, you know, it could, we could default on it, because we just don't have the revenue. Right. But it's a guaranteed income stream. Right. From that. So the other question would be, the experts to answer, would, if we went over that amount, would it actually change, because this is a guaranteed revenue stream, to repay it? Right. Okay. So just some thoughts, and I apologize, but I want to, I've got to support the community. And then the last thing, and this is more for. fred and mindy in their report so i talked to some of the engineers both at the road commission our engineers and we talked about heavy road equipment on our roads and they indicated um we might have left off that we need to include in there fred is uh trash trucks are very damaging to our roads because of the weight they carry and the axles so what trash trucks oh trash trash trucks probably the heaviest truck comes down our road anytime that's what they're saying well i go into more detail in our in our discussion yeah i read your report yeah but essentially uh what uh what the road commission told us was that uh council can't make any rules on what type of truck or what type of vehicle can go on any residential road in bluefield township no you you can't but what you're alluding to here is we have to start charging and putting money aside and create through the permitting process yeah i get into that too but but but what there's a loophole that what what gary kind of opened himself up to in my conversation with him was is that well they they they can't restrict tandem trucks for example from not having access to residential roads because if they're doing them if if they're doing a major road they have to have cut throughs all right well in my neighborhood for example lincoln is a cut through right wedgewood is not a cut through you know so i think that we could negotiate with the road commission so that the township for example could pass a rule that says along with permitting process for new construction tandem trucks for example are not allowed uh in residential roads other than on cut through roads now if the house is being built on lincoln you can't stop them but it's being built on parkhurst or old mill or old mill you can stop them and i think we could use

  46. road commission told us was that uh council can't make any rules on what type of truck or what type of vehicle can go on any residential road in bluefield township no you you can't but what you're alluding to here is we have to start charging and putting money aside and create through the permitting process yeah i get into that too but but but what there's a loophole that what what gary kind of opened himself up to in my conversation with him was is that well they they they can't restrict tandem trucks for example from not having access to residential roads because if they're doing them if if they're doing a major road they have to have cut throughs all right well in my neighborhood for example lincoln is a cut through right wedgewood is not a cut through you know so i think that we could negotiate with the road commission so that the township for example could pass a rule that says along with permitting process for new construction tandem trucks for example are not allowed uh in residential roads other than on cut through roads now if the house is being built on lincoln you can't stop them but it's being built on parkhurst or old mill or old mill you can stop them and i think we could use that to negotiate with the road commission as a reasonable solution but i what i guess i'm asking is that maybe you need to look at trash trucks as well into this mix yeah i think i we just picked tandem trucks because they're the most obvious thing to look at but but uh but i think once you get into that process i think that that the township needs to look at what types of vehicles should we be limiting maybe the trash trucks need to have three axles instead of two axles right i don't know you know but uh what i know is that the the new trash company that we hired is the worst trash company we've had in our neighborhood in 20 years they often don't pick the trash up till the they often don't finish until seven or eight o'clock at night i won't go there but yeah we're having some intense meetings coming up with them right now yeah very intense meetings coming up with 5 30 you have one minute to get there yeah okay thank you well they won't start till he gets there no it started but it's um yeah i hope to make well you got a speech to make you can make that yeah i want to be in the picture from there you go you'll look cute instead of trash truck or any truck just say something like 50 000 pounds per axle or some

  47. it's being built on parkhurst or old mill or old mill you can stop them and i think we could use that to negotiate with the road commission as a reasonable solution but i what i guess i'm asking is that maybe you need to look at trash trucks as well into this mix yeah i think i we just picked tandem trucks because they're the most obvious thing to look at but but uh but i think once you get into that process i think that that the township needs to look at what types of vehicles should we be limiting maybe the trash trucks need to have three axles instead of two axles right i don't know you know but uh what i know is that the the new trash company that we hired is the worst trash company we've had in our neighborhood in 20 years they often don't pick the trash up till the they often don't finish until seven or eight o'clock at night i won't go there but yeah we're having some intense meetings coming up with them right now yeah very intense meetings coming up with 5 30 you have one minute to get there yeah okay thank you well they won't start till he gets there no it started but it's um yeah i hope to make well you got a speech to make you can make that yeah i want to be in the picture from there you go you'll look cute instead of trash truck or any truck just say something like 50 000 pounds per axle or some such number so that it includes everything about that is is what we are looking at in the recommendation right rather than saying because trash truck could be yeah it depends what they're picking up yeah they're picking up recycling they're probably heavy if they're picking up lawn waste they're probably like so you know you you just you just say you know what's what the weight is instead of saying what what kind of truck it is but the reality is we don't have the authority to do that you just touched on another area where that township to city thing yeah which we're not going to talk about but in a city they have all over birmingham you say no through trucks except local delivery right right we can't do that yeah we can't do another example right there okay so i think i think what the township could do with the with in the trash area is that we negotiate the contracts with the trash companies we did we can negotiate the contract that says to pick up this type of trash you have to have this type of truck that's not changing the rules of what can go in our neighborhood through the rc oc that's making it contractual on them to use a three-axle truck to pick up recycling

  48. instead of trash truck or any truck just say something like 50 000 pounds per axle or some such number so that it includes everything about that is is what we are looking at in the recommendation right rather than saying because trash truck could be yeah it depends what they're picking up yeah they're picking up recycling they're probably heavy if they're picking up lawn waste they're probably like so you know you you just you just say you know what's what the weight is instead of saying what what kind of truck it is but the reality is we don't have the authority to do that you just touched on another area where that township to city thing yeah which we're not going to talk about but in a city they have all over birmingham you say no through trucks except local delivery right right we can't do that yeah we can't do another example right there okay so i think i think what the township could do with the with in the trash area is that we negotiate the contracts with the trash companies we did we can negotiate the contract that says to pick up this type of trash you have to have this type of truck that's not changing the rules of what can go in our neighborhood through the rc oc that's making it contractual on them to use a three-axle truck to pick up recycling for example instead of a two axle truck and I don't know whether it's this one or whether we move off the other thing that has I think we may want to surface as a recommendation is that the SADs are not tax deductible they show up on your tax bill which you think okay I can deduct my tax bill and they're not taxable so we may want to mention that that effort because we're talking about how we got to do all these improvements if we keep coming back they're going to be SADs and if we're going to have more SADs I think we also would think about that people wouldn't mind if you were able to deduct their SADs that would take some of the pain off yeah and right now the climate is right to do this all this monkey business and we've got to take advantage of that and because people are dialed in and understand that that takes money to do this and we only have certain amount of money and we're going to do it the right way and everybody has to pay to get into the game otherwise you can't sit back and go the government

  49. for example instead of a two axle truck and I don't know whether it's this one or whether we move off the other thing that has I think we may want to surface as a recommendation is that the SADs are not tax deductible they show up on your tax bill which you think okay I can deduct my tax bill and they're not taxable so we may want to mention that that effort because we're talking about how we got to do all these improvements if we keep coming back they're going to be SADs and if we're going to have more SADs I think we also would think about that people wouldn't mind if you were able to deduct their SADs that would take some of the pain off yeah and right now the climate is right to do this all this monkey business and we've got to take advantage of that and because people are dialed in and understand that that takes money to do this and we only have certain amount of money and we're going to do it the right way and everybody has to pay to get into the game otherwise you can't sit back and go the government should pay for everything well you can say that until they put you under but you know what the recommendation would be that the township board reach out to the appropriate legislators and they should be lobbying that deduction I mean if there's not that groundswell or that application people aren't advocating it's not going to happen so I would suggest that we maybe want to include that and say you guys have got to be advocating we can't we're just an advisor I'm not convinced our representatives are hell raisers and Lance well they're pretty benign but I think it's something we need to recognize and make sure the people in the pain SED that would be good yeah that's a good that's a good another thing to put on by letting my mention that okay all right I suppose yeah if you add a lot of these little things up it becomes something yeah yeah all right next other funding sources that's now up to you with the damage control tap of the damage mitigation okay I apologize this is a draft we we threw out everything two days ago and started over again because of

  50. to pay to get into the game otherwise you can't sit back and go the government should pay for everything well you can say that until they put you under but you know what the recommendation would be that the township board reach out to the appropriate legislators and they should be lobbying that deduction I mean if there's not that groundswell or that application people aren't advocating it's not going to happen so I would suggest that we maybe want to include that and say you guys have got to be advocating we can't we're just an advisor I'm not convinced our representatives are hell raisers and Lance well they're pretty benign but I think it's something we need to recognize and make sure the people in the pain SED that would be good yeah that's a good that's a good another thing to put on by letting my mention that okay all right I suppose yeah if you add a lot of these little things up it becomes something yeah yeah all right next other funding sources that's now up to you with the damage control tap of the damage mitigation okay I apologize this is a draft we we threw out everything two days ago and started over again because of new information that we were receiving but I think this is a and we'll clean it up before the next meeting so we really kind of summarize that you know township roads are old but there's no doubt that the deterioration of our roads is being accelerated by new construction which seems to be pretty widespread throughout the township I think that that is anecdotal uh to say but i think that you can look at areas and subdivisions where the roads have been replaced in the last seven or eight years and where there's a lot of construction and see the deterioration that's already happening yeah it's a question will our engineers testify to that i don't know i mean that's important yeah because um if if they won't that means one thing if they will it could be you know big feather well i would approach them and say can you give us a a statement on where we are with the roads and um and those let's say it came up as important issue and we're trying to maintain the relevance that they are otherwise they're not relevant they're not doing

  51. draft we we threw out everything two days ago and started over again because of new information that we were receiving but I think this is a and we'll clean it up before the next meeting so we really kind of summarize that you know township roads are old but there's no doubt that the deterioration of our roads is being accelerated by new construction which seems to be pretty widespread throughout the township I think that that is anecdotal uh to say but i think that you can look at areas and subdivisions where the roads have been replaced in the last seven or eight years and where there's a lot of construction and see the deterioration that's already happening yeah it's a question will our engineers testify to that i don't know i mean that's important yeah because um if if they won't that means one thing if they will it could be you know big feather well i would approach them and say can you give us a a statement on where we are with the roads and um and those let's say it came up as important issue and we're trying to maintain the relevance that they are otherwise they're not relevant they're not doing what they're supposed to do yeah well it's certainly i'm sure we can find somebody but i i look at again i use my neighborhood as examples because of the fact that i'm i'm in that neighborhood all the time but the roads where there has been a lot of new construction are significantly worse than the roads that have not had construction and okay it's anecdotal but i agree with you we'll find somebody that'll you know yeah because like our our neighborhood we have no new construction yeah i know it's whatever's there is there i have a good friend who retired from the road commission a couple years ago and he's not particularly a a bureaucrat so i'd rather i'd rather refer him but what really comes down to is what we looked at is this dysfunctional relationship pertaining to the residential roads that exists between the township the oakland county road commission in oakland county rc oc owns all the all the residential roads in bloomfield township but it has no funding mechanism to pay for repairs or replacement they also have full authority over restricting vehicle type acts that have access to township residential roads that seems to be

  52. trying to maintain the relevance that they are otherwise they're not relevant they're not doing what they're supposed to do yeah well it's certainly i'm sure we can find somebody but i i look at again i use my neighborhood as examples because of the fact that i'm i'm in that neighborhood all the time but the roads where there has been a lot of new construction are significantly worse than the roads that have not had construction and okay it's anecdotal but i agree with you we'll find somebody that'll you know yeah because like our our neighborhood we have no new construction yeah i know it's whatever's there is there i have a good friend who retired from the road commission a couple years ago and he's not particularly a a bureaucrat so i'd rather i'd rather refer him but what really comes down to is what we looked at is this dysfunctional relationship pertaining to the residential roads that exists between the township the oakland county road commission in oakland county rc oc owns all the all the residential roads in bloomfield township but it has no funding mechanism to pay for repairs or replacement they also have full authority over restricting vehicle type acts that have access to township residential roads that seems to be working can i just ask one thing i know this is it's just a peculiar thing with me and these things i i really don't like the term dysfunctional relationship well how else would you describe i i wouldn't describe it as anything because it really you play your hand out right there about how you're going to go into the into the the the the um uh coliseum okay and then it's just i don't think it's it's just not something if someone was writing something to me and they said i'm a dysfunctional person right on the first sentence i'm going to have a different attitude that that i just have a relationship between the roc and the aac and whatever other c's there are okay it's just that's just the way it doesn't change it taking the word out doesn't change the rest of the presentation yeah what is the relationship that's what you could add And some people would say it's moronic or something like that. Anyway. No, point taken. So the township has no ownership and possibly no responsibility of the residential roads, but it does have control over the home permitting process that contributes to the accelerated wear on the residential roads.

  53. restricting vehicle type acts that have access to township residential roads that seems to be working can i just ask one thing i know this is it's just a peculiar thing with me and these things i i really don't like the term dysfunctional relationship well how else would you describe i i wouldn't describe it as anything because it really you play your hand out right there about how you're going to go into the into the the the the um uh coliseum okay and then it's just i don't think it's it's just not something if someone was writing something to me and they said i'm a dysfunctional person right on the first sentence i'm going to have a different attitude that that i just have a relationship between the roc and the aac and whatever other c's there are okay it's just that's just the way it doesn't change it taking the word out doesn't change the rest of the presentation yeah what is the relationship that's what you could add And some people would say it's moronic or something like that. Anyway. No, point taken. So the township has no ownership and possibly no responsibility of the residential roads, but it does have control over the home permitting process that contributes to the accelerated wear on the residential roads. The township has no authority over vehicle restrictions. But the township benefits financially from higher taxes being levied on the new and larger homes that are replacing older homes. I don't know what it is, what the statistical background is. We can probably get that through the township, but again. But let me just say, they don't. Because the way Henley works, if they get that extra money, they have to have to roll back the millage. So they don't get a real financial benefit out of that. They may, because that one particular property has more money, brings in more, because now it's a $2 million house, not a $500,000 house. But then the whole millage gets rolled back. So that money doesn't actually come in, in addition, on the whole scale, on the whole thing. You've got to be careful about that. I don't know how to word it. But they don't actually, the township doesn't actually get a significant benefit from the new construction or the uncapped house. So you're saying is that in a house that was being taxed at $200,000 or $300,000 that had a...

  54. but it does have control over the home permitting process that contributes to the accelerated wear on the residential roads. The township has no authority over vehicle restrictions. But the township benefits financially from higher taxes being levied on the new and larger homes that are replacing older homes. I don't know what it is, what the statistical background is. We can probably get that through the township, but again. But let me just say, they don't. Because the way Henley works, if they get that extra money, they have to have to roll back the millage. So they don't get a real financial benefit out of that. They may, because that one particular property has more money, brings in more, because now it's a $2 million house, not a $500,000 house. But then the whole millage gets rolled back. So that money doesn't actually come in, in addition, on the whole scale, on the whole thing. You've got to be careful about that. I don't know how to word it. But they don't actually, the township doesn't actually get a significant benefit from the new construction or the uncapped house. So you're saying is that in a house that was being taxed at $200,000 or $300,000 that had a... street value of $500,000 got replaced by a $3.5 million house, and the net value of the tax increase to the township and the county was zero? Well, not zero, but it's very low. It's very, it's only, I think we got a report was a 3% increase. 3%. If I'm not mistaken, that's... How can that be? Because the millage gets rolled back. Yeah, but I think that 3% increase was township-wise. It's cash. Yeah. It's not. It's a forecast for the next year. Okay. On a long-term, this is true, what you're saying. If the value of property goes up over time, it does help township, but on a year-to-year basis, you roll back because of the... But even on a long-term basis, it only increases a very small amount. Again, it's the discussion we had earlier. If the tax goes up a million dollars, then they have to roll back the millage from the 50 that there was to get that million the next year, now it goes to 49, so that million dollars becomes $50,000. Okay, but there's... Overall in the whole township. But there's still a countable incremental revenue stream.

  55. street value of $500,000 got replaced by a $3.5 million house, and the net value of the tax increase to the township and the county was zero? Well, not zero, but it's very low. It's very, it's only, I think we got a report was a 3% increase. 3%. If I'm not mistaken, that's... How can that be? Because the millage gets rolled back. Yeah, but I think that 3% increase was township-wise. It's cash. Yeah. It's not. It's a forecast for the next year. Okay. On a long-term, this is true, what you're saying. If the value of property goes up over time, it does help township, but on a year-to-year basis, you roll back because of the... But even on a long-term basis, it only increases a very small amount. Again, it's the discussion we had earlier. If the tax goes up a million dollars, then they have to roll back the millage from the 50 that there was to get that million the next year, now it goes to 49, so that million dollars becomes $50,000. Okay, but there's... Overall in the whole township. But there's still a countable incremental revenue stream. Jason Tice, I think, told us it's about 3%. 3%. 3% of what number? Well, from your year. 3%. 3%. This year, next year, it'll be 3% more net after the rollback. All right. All right. But what's... What are we counting? If it's 3% of $100 million, it's a very countable number. Okay, I don't know how much it is, how much the increase was, but it's only a 3% increase, which is not a significant increase. That's less than inflation. Well, if it's more than zero, I think taxpayers would consider it to be significant. Okay, all right. At least my opinion. But you've just got to be careful that there's no windfall. The township doesn't get a windfall because of new construction. There is a small increase, but it's not a windfall. Okay. Okay, but they are getting an increased tax revenue. We did not use the word windfall. So, you know, what we're proposing is that the township should understand the poor condition of the roads, but it does nothing to change how it implements and controls and monitors the permitting process. I can tell you just from my knowledge in my neighborhood, the way that our township road people monitor road damage from new construction

  56. But there's still a countable incremental revenue stream. Jason Tice, I think, told us it's about 3%. 3%. 3% of what number? Well, from your year. 3%. 3%. This year, next year, it'll be 3% more net after the rollback. All right. All right. But what's... What are we counting? If it's 3% of $100 million, it's a very countable number. Okay, I don't know how much it is, how much the increase was, but it's only a 3% increase, which is not a significant increase. That's less than inflation. Well, if it's more than zero, I think taxpayers would consider it to be significant. Okay, all right. At least my opinion. But you've just got to be careful that there's no windfall. The township doesn't get a windfall because of new construction. There is a small increase, but it's not a windfall. Okay. Okay, but they are getting an increased tax revenue. We did not use the word windfall. So, you know, what we're proposing is that the township should understand the poor condition of the roads, but it does nothing to change how it implements and controls and monitors the permitting process. I can tell you just from my knowledge in my neighborhood, the way that our township road people monitor road damage from new construction is somebody goes out from the building department and they take pictures of the road in front of the house. Before an occupancy permit is issued, they take pictures again. And if there are potholes, the builder is responsible for filling the potholes. Now, if you look at the... Now, if you look at the... science of how a pothole forms it takes a lot of wear and tear on the underlayment of the road before you actually get a pothole there are more scientific ways that we could be doing this and that's all we're proposing um and and as i said earlier i'm not convinced that that the road commission doesn't have some liability under the federal uh federal ada law how is there live how's that how does that work the ada law well it's a federal law that requires that requires that you whatever you're doing you you have to you have to meet the federal ada requirements and if you street yeah no it's everything so now in the accessibility does that require you to have a sidewalk

  57. I can tell you just from my knowledge in my neighborhood, the way that our township road people monitor road damage from new construction is somebody goes out from the building department and they take pictures of the road in front of the house. Before an occupancy permit is issued, they take pictures again. And if there are potholes, the builder is responsible for filling the potholes. Now, if you look at the... Now, if you look at the... science of how a pothole forms it takes a lot of wear and tear on the underlayment of the road before you actually get a pothole there are more scientific ways that we could be doing this and that's all we're proposing um and and as i said earlier i'm not convinced that that the road commission doesn't have some liability under the federal uh federal ada law how is there live how's that how does that work the ada law well it's a federal law that requires that requires that you whatever you're doing you you have to you have to meet the federal ada requirements and if you street yeah no it's everything so now in the accessibility does that require you to have a sidewalk i don't i don't know that it requires you to have a sidewalk but it requires you to have a may require you to have a a pathway that people can't fall on or that somebody in a walker can can go through okay or somebody in a wheelchair can go through you know it may or may not cover the ada law may or may not cover a kid on a scooter but i'm pretty sure it covers a person in a wheelchair or it covers a person walking uh yeah but i mean again it's it's it's a disabilities act so let's give you an example uh when the safety path or sidewalk meets the road yeah there's a little required that is an ADA requirement right yes right that that's just that's one example example and and just from the line to conjure up in my mind what we could sue him over and that would be good well I don't know that we have to sue him over well no somebody has to sue the federal government yeah when this happened they're used to it when this happened in Birmingham a while ago like like I was using as an example it happened because of the fact that my daughter was in an unsafe condition being in a manual wheelchair because of

  58. yeah no it's everything so now in the accessibility does that require you to have a sidewalk i don't i don't know that it requires you to have a sidewalk but it requires you to have a may require you to have a a pathway that people can't fall on or that somebody in a walker can can go through okay or somebody in a wheelchair can go through you know it may or may not cover the ada law may or may not cover a kid on a scooter but i'm pretty sure it covers a person in a wheelchair or it covers a person walking uh yeah but i mean again it's it's it's a disabilities act so let's give you an example uh when the safety path or sidewalk meets the road yeah there's a little required that is an ADA requirement right yes right that that's just that's one example example and and just from the line to conjure up in my mind what we could sue him over and that would be good well I don't know that we have to sue him over well no somebody has to sue the federal government yeah when this happened they're used to it when this happened in Birmingham a while ago like like I was using as an example it happened because of the fact that my daughter was in an unsafe condition being in a manual wheelchair because of how Birmingham had constructed parking spots on roads and they were held accountable for it they were taken to federal court and they eventually settled out of court and agreed to spend five million dollars a year for four years in a row under under guidelines and under under authority authoritative overview on how to fix what they had done and what you find is in and when it pertains that it's much easier to understand when it pertains to housing you can get a certificate of occupancy from the township and you can even get a certificate of occupancy from the state that says that you meet guidelines those guidelines don't necessarily absolve you from the ADA guidelines and you can still be sued for not meeting the ADA guidelines even though you have gotten certificates of occupancy or authority from from the municipality and the state if you're interested in more my daughter and and a lawyer from Oakland County travel around the state giving presentations on this topic we'll see what we get there yeah so what can

  59. daughter was in an unsafe condition being in a manual wheelchair because of how Birmingham had constructed parking spots on roads and they were held accountable for it they were taken to federal court and they eventually settled out of court and agreed to spend five million dollars a year for four years in a row under under guidelines and under under authority authoritative overview on how to fix what they had done and what you find is in and when it pertains that it's much easier to understand when it pertains to housing you can get a certificate of occupancy from the township and you can even get a certificate of occupancy from the state that says that you meet guidelines those guidelines don't necessarily absolve you from the ADA guidelines and you can still be sued for not meeting the ADA guidelines even though you have gotten certificates of occupancy or authority from from the municipality and the state if you're interested in more my daughter and and a lawyer from Oakland County travel around the state giving presentations on this topic we'll see what we get there yeah so what can be done you know it's really what it comes down to and and when Mindy and I looked at it's like why would I even agree to a to an SAD in my neighborhood when my neighborhood is about 25% redone with new houses I think there are seven or eight new homes and under construction in my neighborhood right now they're all between five and seven thousand square feet why would I agree to spend seven year eighty thousand dollars to repair the replace the road in front of my house it's only going to get destroyed because of the fact that we don't have any safeguards in place I feel that you know I'd like to know from the townships permitting process when was the last time that they even looked at the permitting process and updated it if I were going to take a guess I would say it's probably just been periodically updated from 40 or 50 years ago we feel that it could write it's likely just an evolution the processes are on scientific right now and outdated at best

  60. giving presentations on this topic we'll see what we get there yeah so what can be done you know it's really what it comes down to and and when Mindy and I looked at it's like why would I even agree to a to an SAD in my neighborhood when my neighborhood is about 25% redone with new houses I think there are seven or eight new homes and under construction in my neighborhood right now they're all between five and seven thousand square feet why would I agree to spend seven year eighty thousand dollars to repair the replace the road in front of my house it's only going to get destroyed because of the fact that we don't have any safeguards in place I feel that you know I'd like to know from the townships permitting process when was the last time that they even looked at the permitting process and updated it if I were going to take a guess I would say it's probably just been periodically updated from 40 or 50 years ago we feel that it could write it's likely just an evolution the processes are on scientific right now and outdated at best um and and and need to be updated incorporate approach that utilizes databases and ai the very pertinent questions to highlight what we will implement there's also huge disconnect between taxation residential road ownership and residential road funding as we've already discussed i'm not going to go into that we recommend the following actions to be looked at track demolition and construction permits by neighborhood slash hoa construction type with square footage and whether it has a basement or no basement this is these are important things because i i believe i'm not sure if our neighborhood exemplifies the township in general but our neighborhood in particular has gone from when i moved in 20 22 years ago the average house in our neighborhood was 26 to 29 000 square feet and about 20 of them had basements 80 didn't have basements really yeah well the houses that are going in today are averaging between 5 500 square feet and 7 000 square feet with full basements with tall ceilings but their footprint on the land is the same well

  61. um and and and need to be updated incorporate approach that utilizes databases and ai the very pertinent questions to highlight what we will implement there's also huge disconnect between taxation residential road ownership and residential road funding as we've already discussed i'm not going to go into that we recommend the following actions to be looked at track demolition and construction permits by neighborhood slash hoa construction type with square footage and whether it has a basement or no basement this is these are important things because i i believe i'm not sure if our neighborhood exemplifies the township in general but our neighborhood in particular has gone from when i moved in 20 22 years ago the average house in our neighborhood was 26 to 29 000 square feet and about 20 of them had basements 80 didn't have basements really yeah well the houses that are going in today are averaging between 5 500 square feet and 7 000 square feet with full basements with tall ceilings but their footprint on the land is the same well footprint's bigger the footprint but it meets the setback requirements because the lots are big okay so you know if you track if you track demolition and construction permits by HOA, by the size of construction and by basement, you can start looking at how much mass is being removed from the property and how much mass is being brought into the property during the construction process. And that's an important thing to look at. Maintain a database of new residential construction by neighborhood and HOA. We don't do that today. Limit the number of active permits in a specific geographic area and create a staged timing for new approvals. That way you're not having three new houses go in on Old Mill Road within a certain period, within a given period of time. Because again, this house, new construction today, if it's a custom built house, it's taking two to three years to build. Really? Yeah. Absolutely. One across the street from you is almost three years now. Yeah. I hope my wife and I live to be 80, 90 years old.

  62. square feet with full basements with tall ceilings but their footprint on the land is the same well footprint's bigger the footprint but it meets the setback requirements because the lots are big okay so you know if you track if you track demolition and construction permits by HOA, by the size of construction and by basement, you can start looking at how much mass is being removed from the property and how much mass is being brought into the property during the construction process. And that's an important thing to look at. Maintain a database of new residential construction by neighborhood and HOA. We don't do that today. Limit the number of active permits in a specific geographic area and create a staged timing for new approvals. That way you're not having three new houses go in on Old Mill Road within a certain period, within a given period of time. Because again, this house, new construction today, if it's a custom built house, it's taking two to three years to build. Really? Yeah. Absolutely. One across the street from you is almost three years now. Yeah. I hope my wife and I live to be 80, 90 years old. Based the cost of permits on gross weight of demolition, what's being removed from the existing house and how much is coming in. And I use this example in my first presentation before I joined the committee. The house across the street from me is over 6,000 square feet, has a full basement. And we calculated that a million pounds of dirt were hauled away from that job site in tandem trucks. So for example, For example, if we implemented a 1% construction tax on a new home costing $2.5 million, it would be $25,000. Quite honestly, it's a rounding error. Nobody's going to stop a new construction project in Bloomfield Township because they're leaving Birmingham where they're paying $30,000 a year in property taxes. And they're building a $2.5 to $3 million home in our township. And they're not going to go somewhere else because we're charging them $25,000 or 1% of what the cost is. It can't be free. Now, the value of that is that this money could then be tracked by what neighborhood it comes from,

  63. I hope my wife and I live to be 80, 90 years old. Based the cost of permits on gross weight of demolition, what's being removed from the existing house and how much is coming in. And I use this example in my first presentation before I joined the committee. The house across the street from me is over 6,000 square feet, has a full basement. And we calculated that a million pounds of dirt were hauled away from that job site in tandem trucks. So for example, For example, if we implemented a 1% construction tax on a new home costing $2.5 million, it would be $25,000. Quite honestly, it's a rounding error. Nobody's going to stop a new construction project in Bloomfield Township because they're leaving Birmingham where they're paying $30,000 a year in property taxes. And they're building a $2.5 to $3 million home in our township. And they're not going to go somewhere else because we're charging them $25,000 or 1% of what the cost is. It can't be free. Now, the value of that is that this money could then be tracked by what neighborhood it comes from, and it could be allocated for road maintenance and repairs in that subdivision. We're not doing that today. Anyway, earlier we were talking about, like, if you get this pot of money, how do you decide where you're going to use it at? Well, if we get this kind of pot of money and we track where the revenue is being generated from, you can sell it back to the taxpayers by saying that money is going to go right back into your neighborhood. Tax sharing. Tax sharing. Maybe the amount that we get incrementally is not that much, but, again, I believe it's countable. I believe that the township should, we should look at recommending that 20. percent of incremental revenue over an eight to 10 year period would be allocated for maintaining roads in the neighborhood where the where the revenue came from again if we had a database which we don't have today that would be really easy to track and we could also go to the county and ask the county for the same thing that right now they're completely washing their hands of the problem they don't own the roads they don't have any responsibility but they make money when when

  64. Now, the value of that is that this money could then be tracked by what neighborhood it comes from, and it could be allocated for road maintenance and repairs in that subdivision. We're not doing that today. Anyway, earlier we were talking about, like, if you get this pot of money, how do you decide where you're going to use it at? Well, if we get this kind of pot of money and we track where the revenue is being generated from, you can sell it back to the taxpayers by saying that money is going to go right back into your neighborhood. Tax sharing. Tax sharing. Maybe the amount that we get incrementally is not that much, but, again, I believe it's countable. I believe that the township should, we should look at recommending that 20. percent of incremental revenue over an eight to 10 year period would be allocated for maintaining roads in the neighborhood where the where the revenue came from again if we had a database which we don't have today that would be really easy to track and we could also go to the county and ask the county for the same thing that right now they're completely washing their hands of the problem they don't own the roads they don't have any responsibility but they make money when when the house gets gets gets rebuilt so we've got to start taking the people that are getting money from this from this functional relationship or dysfunctional relationship and start making them at least share a portion of that money over some period of time now how do you do this i we're certainly don't have the credentials in order to make that uh that recommendation but but we certainly should should recommend that that the township implement a plan to fund a consultant to recommend what kind of changes could be made to the permitting process that would allow us to track uh track new construction and also go back through database and track what construction has happened over the past eight or ten years and implement a new construction tax of one percent on new housing costs as a part of the permitting process and allocate this revenue for roads in the neighborhoods where the construction occurred. And then also implement the 20% incremental tax sharing. Now, again, I apologize for how drafty this is,

  65. problem they don't own the roads they don't have any responsibility but they make money when when the house gets gets gets rebuilt so we've got to start taking the people that are getting money from this from this functional relationship or dysfunctional relationship and start making them at least share a portion of that money over some period of time now how do you do this i we're certainly don't have the credentials in order to make that uh that recommendation but but we certainly should should recommend that that the township implement a plan to fund a consultant to recommend what kind of changes could be made to the permitting process that would allow us to track uh track new construction and also go back through database and track what construction has happened over the past eight or ten years and implement a new construction tax of one percent on new housing costs as a part of the permitting process and allocate this revenue for roads in the neighborhoods where the construction occurred. And then also implement the 20% incremental tax sharing. Now, again, I apologize for how drafty this is, but we will clean it up and put it into a better presentation that also takes out the word dysfunctional. He's used it twice, though, just so you know. I know, I know. And I take your comment. I think it's a good comment. I have a few. I agree with Dr. Gary about dysfunctional, but I just have a couple of other similar things. You know, wherever you have Oakland County, you should, you know, I would put RCOC that way because Road Commission is a separate agency. It's not, and so it doesn't get mixed up with the Oakland County government. That's addressed in the very first paragraph where it separates that the, I identify that the township as an entity, Oakland County Road Commission as an entity under RCOC, and Oakland County as an entity under OC. But it probably is worth mentioning it more than once. Yeah, the third bullet has Oakland County, so it's kind of, and then the second bullet about, Thank you, Mr. retired. We can try to sit about Department of Justice, Thank you.

  66. Now, again, I apologize for how drafty this is, but we will clean it up and put it into a better presentation that also takes out the word dysfunctional. He's used it twice, though, just so you know. I know, I know. And I take your comment. I think it's a good comment. I have a few. I agree with Dr. Gary about dysfunctional, but I just have a couple of other similar things. You know, wherever you have Oakland County, you should, you know, I would put RCOC that way because Road Commission is a separate agency. It's not, and so it doesn't get mixed up with the Oakland County government. That's addressed in the very first paragraph where it separates that the, I identify that the township as an entity, Oakland County Road Commission as an entity under RCOC, and Oakland County as an entity under OC. But it probably is worth mentioning it more than once. Yeah, the third bullet has Oakland County, so it's kind of, and then the second bullet about, Thank you, Mr. retired. We can try to sit about Department of Justice, Thank you. You know, I would use local roads, you know, not just because they do, the road commission do take care of, like, Long Lake Road or, you know, major arteries, they do take care of those, but they don't pay attention to any subdivision local roads. So if you, wherever you put roads, if you put local in front of it, that would make, you know, in my opinion. The reason that we didn't do that was because of the fact that from Gary's presentation last meeting, as you may remember, he commented that, you know, they allocate the funds that they get for those sort of main arteries. You know, the roads that get completely ignored in the financial relationship of things are residential roads. Yeah, they will say that, if I understand, the road commission will say that they use funds to do, you know, all the mile roads or Long Lakes or things like that, and they run out of funds to do local roads, so there's no funding that they allocate to the local roads.

  67. You know, I would use local roads, you know, not just because they do, the road commission do take care of, like, Long Lake Road or, you know, major arteries, they do take care of those, but they don't pay attention to any subdivision local roads. So if you, wherever you put roads, if you put local in front of it, that would make, you know, in my opinion. The reason that we didn't do that was because of the fact that from Gary's presentation last meeting, as you may remember, he commented that, you know, they allocate the funds that they get for those sort of main arteries. You know, the roads that get completely ignored in the financial relationship of things are residential roads. Yeah, they will say that, if I understand, the road commission will say that they use funds to do, you know, all the mile roads or Long Lakes or things like that, and they run out of funds to do local roads, so there's no funding that they allocate to the local roads. One other quick, you know, the sentence that township understands the poor condition of the residential roads, but does nothing. One other quick, you want to repeat if you've got to go to the street of the road? Out of STUDENT? That's right, I think. That's one of the biggest things you could say about, the road business people would say But, you know, it's an emergency if you don't go to the building. change you know so but then we have a one mill road millage and and they do something they have a road department and they do you know repair and do you know pot hole replacement things like that on a local road I think that so Township does something yeah it taxes people it taxes people for more money just like I say yeah I think I can make that bullet more specific to the permitting process I think your reasoning is correct yeah you've done a lot of detailed research so appreciate that yeah I just know on the point the point why the what you're trying to the points are well taken just because of the fact as I said this is very drafty and it didn't it was it was being worked on today we need we need to do need to move on we're supposed to be until 6 but we're gonna have to finish stay until we're done okay well I think we can move on I think we

  68. out of funds to do local roads, so there's no funding that they allocate to the local roads. One other quick, you know, the sentence that township understands the poor condition of the residential roads, but does nothing. One other quick, you want to repeat if you've got to go to the street of the road? Out of STUDENT? That's right, I think. That's one of the biggest things you could say about, the road business people would say But, you know, it's an emergency if you don't go to the building. change you know so but then we have a one mill road millage and and they do something they have a road department and they do you know repair and do you know pot hole replacement things like that on a local road I think that so Township does something yeah it taxes people it taxes people for more money just like I say yeah I think I can make that bullet more specific to the permitting process I think your reasoning is correct yeah you've done a lot of detailed research so appreciate that yeah I just know on the point the point why the what you're trying to the points are well taken just because of the fact as I said this is very drafty and it didn't it was it was being worked on today we need we need to do need to move on we're supposed to be until 6 but we're gonna have to finish stay until we're done okay well I think we can move on I think we can do that just move on to the next job right move on to the next topic and that would be about PA 51 this is a real slippery slope so what everybody understands what public act 51 is all about it talks about how monies are collected and then dispersed to certain agencies and those agencies be being the Michigan Department of Transportation, the counties, and then cities and villages. The problem that we have is that Public Act 51 does not include townships as a recipient of the funds. Therefore, we at the township are dependent upon the Road Commission of Oakland County in our case. And as we heard in a couple of presentations from RCOC, their priorities are based on safety and traffic volumes. So if you look at subdivision streets, there's not much traffic volume, and it has to be a real problem in order to be a safety issue. So therefore, neighborhood roads hardly ever get any attention

  69. have to finish stay until we're done okay well I think we can move on I think we can do that just move on to the next job right move on to the next topic and that would be about PA 51 this is a real slippery slope so what everybody understands what public act 51 is all about it talks about how monies are collected and then dispersed to certain agencies and those agencies be being the Michigan Department of Transportation, the counties, and then cities and villages. The problem that we have is that Public Act 51 does not include townships as a recipient of the funds. Therefore, we at the township are dependent upon the Road Commission of Oakland County in our case. And as we heard in a couple of presentations from RCOC, their priorities are based on safety and traffic volumes. So if you look at subdivision streets, there's not much traffic volume, and it has to be a real problem in order to be a safety issue. So therefore, neighborhood roads hardly ever get any attention from the RCOC for repair or replacement, and so it puts the financial burden onto the respective homeowners. So back in February, I sent a couple emails to Donnie Steele, the representative in our area, state representative in our area, and her admin got back to me and set up a meeting, had a discussion with her, basically talking about the neighborhood road fund that had been proposed through House Bill 4230, where $2.5 billion would be allocated for local road maintenance. And under the cloak of darkness, it was agreed to fund it, but it omitted the fact of any subdivision road was no longer specified in that bill. So that was a problem. So then Donnie had mentioned, and we addressed this earlier today, that we should establish a good relationship with the RCOC and potentially attend some of their board meetings if there are issues within the township we want to address that RCOC could do, but doesn't have the priority to do that, that we become the squeaky wheel for them.

  70. So therefore, neighborhood roads hardly ever get any attention from the RCOC for repair or replacement, and so it puts the financial burden onto the respective homeowners. So back in February, I sent a couple emails to Donnie Steele, the representative in our area, state representative in our area, and her admin got back to me and set up a meeting, had a discussion with her, basically talking about the neighborhood road fund that had been proposed through House Bill 4230, where $2.5 billion would be allocated for local road maintenance. And under the cloak of darkness, it was agreed to fund it, but it omitted the fact of any subdivision road was no longer specified in that bill. So that was a problem. So then Donnie had mentioned, and we addressed this earlier today, that we should establish a good relationship with the RCOC and potentially attend some of their board meetings if there are issues within the township we want to address that RCOC could do, but doesn't have the priority to do that, that we become the squeaky wheel for them. In March, I reached out to State Senator Jeremy Moss, and through an email, he admitted that legislation had been introduced many times to try including townships for Public Act 51. Nothing had ever been adopted. They did have in 2025, a Senate Bill 150, which was proposed that distributes the funds to local governments instead of through the local road agencies, but it hasn't received any attraction in the Transportation Committee. I looked up Senate Bill 150, and even though my contact had mentioned that it was going to direct funding towards the municipalities, it still, strangely, did not include townships in that. So whether that moves forward or not, it still wouldn't happen. help other in townships. His recommendation though was to reach out to the Michigan Townships Association, the MTA, because apparently they have been dealing with issues like this in the past. So I submitted a detailed question on their website, didn't hear anything back, got a contact from the

  71. In March, I reached out to State Senator Jeremy Moss, and through an email, he admitted that legislation had been introduced many times to try including townships for Public Act 51. Nothing had ever been adopted. They did have in 2025, a Senate Bill 150, which was proposed that distributes the funds to local governments instead of through the local road agencies, but it hasn't received any attraction in the Transportation Committee. I looked up Senate Bill 150, and even though my contact had mentioned that it was going to direct funding towards the municipalities, it still, strangely, did not include townships in that. So whether that moves forward or not, it still wouldn't happen. help other in townships. His recommendation though was to reach out to the Michigan Townships Association, the MTA, because apparently they have been dealing with issues like this in the past. So I submitted a detailed question on their website, didn't hear anything back, got a contact from the township of a Judy Allen at the MTA. I emailed her a couple of times, never got any responses back to call her cell phone, left messages on two different occasions, never heard back. So I called the main number of the MTA a couple of weeks ago and spoke with a person there and explained to her what I was interested in doing. She says, oh, sounds like you need to talk to Judy Allen. So she transferred me to Judy's desk, left a message and haven't had a response back yet from that. So I think it's a slippery slope trying to get Public Act 51 to be changed. But again, through perseverance, possibly we can get something involved, but it sounds like pretty much beating a dead horse. With the recommendation though to the township board, with the recommendation in the report, say, we need to address this. You can't say how we can do it, but can we say the township board, we recommend. We recommend.

  72. I submitted a detailed question on their website, didn't hear anything back, got a contact from the township of a Judy Allen at the MTA. I emailed her a couple of times, never got any responses back to call her cell phone, left messages on two different occasions, never heard back. So I called the main number of the MTA a couple of weeks ago and spoke with a person there and explained to her what I was interested in doing. She says, oh, sounds like you need to talk to Judy Allen. So she transferred me to Judy's desk, left a message and haven't had a response back yet from that. So I think it's a slippery slope trying to get Public Act 51 to be changed. But again, through perseverance, possibly we can get something involved, but it sounds like pretty much beating a dead horse. With the recommendation though to the township board, with the recommendation in the report, say, we need to address this. You can't say how we can do it, but can we say the township board, we recommend. We recommend. that this is part of the problem we need to find a solution to it which would be the two issues one is being more involved with the RC OC which it sounds like we are anyhow and the other one would potentially be to push the MTA to raise the voice yes yes that's what I'm at agreed you know you can't do anything you're not going to change it really not now I like your list of how many times they turned you down ignored me well I use ignore this kind of for both the state representative as well as the state center it took at least two emails before anything came back and that's changing the subject line to say second notice second request whatever so you really do have to become a squeaky wheel with the legislative people it's an election year it never ceases these people right they get elected the least they can do is they rather is a call yeah they might not like it but you know but they go any more any questions that's it that was good about this no I just want to say that you

  73. that this is part of the problem we need to find a solution to it which would be the two issues one is being more involved with the RC OC which it sounds like we are anyhow and the other one would potentially be to push the MTA to raise the voice yes yes that's what I'm at agreed you know you can't do anything you're not going to change it really not now I like your list of how many times they turned you down ignored me well I use ignore this kind of for both the state representative as well as the state center it took at least two emails before anything came back and that's changing the subject line to say second notice second request whatever so you really do have to become a squeaky wheel with the legislative people it's an election year it never ceases these people right they get elected the least they can do is they rather is a call yeah they might not like it but you know but they go any more any questions that's it that was good about this no I just want to say that you know as long as I've been in business for 45 years we've been looking at act 51 with those commissions and you know several communities we used to be municipal engineers so that has been ongoing And the northern communities have a different agenda, and southeast Michigan has a lot more requirements, and it goes back and forth. And it was done in 1951, and it's still been amended several times, but it's just not, you know. But I think I see in our report, we can put that something to look at, but it's going to be a fight for a small township like us to fight the... All right, now, next step. Next step. Next step. The next meeting we have, Sue, is what? It's the beginning of June. Two weeks. Two weeks. No, there wasn't one. We decided not to have the one after Memorial Day, so it's going to be June 10th. June 10th. Okay, so at that meeting, we should probably talk about how we're going to put this report to the Board of Trustees.

  74. any questions that's it that was good about this no I just want to say that you know as long as I've been in business for 45 years we've been looking at act 51 with those commissions and you know several communities we used to be municipal engineers so that has been ongoing And the northern communities have a different agenda, and southeast Michigan has a lot more requirements, and it goes back and forth. And it was done in 1951, and it's still been amended several times, but it's just not, you know. But I think I see in our report, we can put that something to look at, but it's going to be a fight for a small township like us to fight the... All right, now, next step. Next step. Next step. The next meeting we have, Sue, is what? It's the beginning of June. Two weeks. Two weeks. No, there wasn't one. We decided not to have the one after Memorial Day, so it's going to be June 10th. June 10th. Okay, so at that meeting, we should probably talk about how we're going to put this report to the Board of Trustees. Is that all right? Okay. We have to put it together. Somehow it's got to go together. What do you want us to do beforehand? I mean, do you want, like, to put little paragraphs of summaries or something like that? Because I can't submit all this as they throw it back at me like spaghetti. I know. Well, you can't. Some of this, like... Well, you... was just presented, there's a lot there. I think the first question, do we want to do a written report or do we want to do a PowerPoint? I think a written report's better. And a PowerPoint is, but if we do a written report, then if we write out what we want to say, and let's just see how it goes, and we'll have to edit it to make sure we don't. But we have to stand up at the podium and talk to the board of trustees, right? Well, we can do that. But after they've read it, no, submit the report because I think it's more professional to give them a report that they have in their hand that tells them these are our recommendations, and we'll make bullet points specifically to the recommendations.

  75. Okay, so at that meeting, we should probably talk about how we're going to put this report to the Board of Trustees. Is that all right? Okay. We have to put it together. Somehow it's got to go together. What do you want us to do beforehand? I mean, do you want, like, to put little paragraphs of summaries or something like that? Because I can't submit all this as they throw it back at me like spaghetti. I know. Well, you can't. Some of this, like... Well, you... was just presented, there's a lot there. I think the first question, do we want to do a written report or do we want to do a PowerPoint? I think a written report's better. And a PowerPoint is, but if we do a written report, then if we write out what we want to say, and let's just see how it goes, and we'll have to edit it to make sure we don't. But we have to stand up at the podium and talk to the board of trustees, right? Well, we can do that. But after they've read it, no, submit the report because I think it's more professional to give them a report that they have in their hand that tells them these are our recommendations, and we'll make bullet points specifically to the recommendations. There isn't one recommendation that's any less important than the next one, so da-da-da-da-da. And you can stand up and say, well, this is our recommendations, and we go through that. But they're the ones that are driving the car here, not anyone in this room right now. But I do think. Except Susan, maybe. I do think, using my own Mindy and I report as an example, it's a rougher shape than some of the other reports, but I think all the reports can be precipitated down from what we read today and precipitated down to what are the action items that need to be done. The reason I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Well, rather than going through the history of the why. Yeah, and I have to go through the whys. And then I think, as a committee, we can prioritize which ones are more important. You know, because they don't all have equal weight because they all don't have equal potential. No, I'm just saying they all should be considered. But the point, the reason I brought that up is, you know, there's two things. When you give a report to the Board of Trustees, you give them a report. But at the same time, you're talking to the whole township.

  76. that tells them these are our recommendations, and we'll make bullet points specifically to the recommendations. There isn't one recommendation that's any less important than the next one, so da-da-da-da-da. And you can stand up and say, well, this is our recommendations, and we go through that. But they're the ones that are driving the car here, not anyone in this room right now. But I do think. Except Susan, maybe. I do think, using my own Mindy and I report as an example, it's a rougher shape than some of the other reports, but I think all the reports can be precipitated down from what we read today and precipitated down to what are the action items that need to be done. The reason I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Well, rather than going through the history of the why. Yeah, and I have to go through the whys. And then I think, as a committee, we can prioritize which ones are more important. You know, because they don't all have equal weight because they all don't have equal potential. No, I'm just saying they all should be considered. But the point, the reason I brought that up is, you know, there's two things. When you give a report to the Board of Trustees, you give them a report. But at the same time, you're talking to the whole township. You're talking to people all over that are looking at this and looking for answers. And so when you report to a municipal board, you're talking also to everybody. Even though sometimes when you say to them something that you know and they know, the people that are sitting there or I'm watching, they don't know. That's my point. So are we going to just submit a written report or are we also going to, from that written report, stand up at the podium and say, this is what we've done and tell everybody how we're working. We should do both because a written report would be like a document for, if there's a committee three, two or three years from now, there's another committee. They can look at what we did, all this hard work. Still be talking about it. And, you know, it's a blue ribbon committee. You know, anytime there is a citizen come up with a, you know, concern. Okay, you know what I suggest then? What we do is formulate, like you said, go through it and undraft it. you know make it make it and then make a report but out of each one summarize it with bullet points down condense it down so that one of us you whoever is doing the report can stand up there and and and and give it so that people can

  77. But at the same time, you're talking to the whole township. You're talking to people all over that are looking at this and looking for answers. And so when you report to a municipal board, you're talking also to everybody. Even though sometimes when you say to them something that you know and they know, the people that are sitting there or I'm watching, they don't know. That's my point. So are we going to just submit a written report or are we also going to, from that written report, stand up at the podium and say, this is what we've done and tell everybody how we're working. We should do both because a written report would be like a document for, if there's a committee three, two or three years from now, there's another committee. They can look at what we did, all this hard work. Still be talking about it. And, you know, it's a blue ribbon committee. You know, anytime there is a citizen come up with a, you know, concern. Okay, you know what I suggest then? What we do is formulate, like you said, go through it and undraft it. you know make it make it and then make a report but out of each one summarize it with bullet points down condense it down so that one of us you whoever is doing the report can stand up there and and and and give it so that people can understand that this is what we've done for the last year and a half well yeah you're doing two things you're trying to show them wherever you've been and that you're this is a learned opinion about where you could go right it's not something you just you know made up when you were walking into Oakland County I think the I think the presentation that was would be given by somebody from from our committee would just capture the the action items the written report that we submit would put the history behind the action items that way we're only presenting the action items to the to the people no I just try to think about structure so we have consistency do we for each one of these categories we talk about define the issue or the problem and then there's the recommendations yeah I think you have a paragraph that is announces what you're talking about and then you give bullets underneath it to kind of say these are the action item points or whatever it is you want to make it to set it up and then I don't think it's necessary to go back to our first presentation and go through the history out what's going on no at all no unless they have unless they have a short-term memory problem yeah

  78. doing the report can stand up there and and and and give it so that people can understand that this is what we've done for the last year and a half well yeah you're doing two things you're trying to show them wherever you've been and that you're this is a learned opinion about where you could go right it's not something you just you know made up when you were walking into Oakland County I think the I think the presentation that was would be given by somebody from from our committee would just capture the the action items the written report that we submit would put the history behind the action items that way we're only presenting the action items to the to the people no I just try to think about structure so we have consistency do we for each one of these categories we talk about define the issue or the problem and then there's the recommendations yeah I think you have a paragraph that is announces what you're talking about and then you give bullets underneath it to kind of say these are the action item points or whatever it is you want to make it to set it up and then I don't think it's necessary to go back to our first presentation and go through the history out what's going on no at all no unless they have unless they have a short-term memory problem yeah So we would have an intro paragraph about the area, and then we say this is kind of the issue of the problem, and here's the recommendations to the rest. And, you know, I'll make sure I do the same, but we'll get them into the desk, and then as people go through them, then they can kind of weed out some where it gets a little choppy. I mean, let's talk about how we're going to do that, a brief overview or an introduction, and then each person, you know, like we did the first one. We separate it out to different people doing it. I thought that had a nice touch. I think that's good. The homework. That way they just wouldn't hate me or you or somebody else. Can I have to share, pretty much other than Fred and Mindy, the reports are pretty much what you guys presented today. I don't think there's anybody that needs to go back over. Oh, okay, so now there's you. But what I'm saying, I can come together. I can, like, compile it all for the next meeting and even start the PowerPoint like we did last time with just the bulleted points. Because tonight I was going through a lot of the points, but like you're saying, if you work on it in the next week or so by the next meeting, because it's a month away, I can get this preliminary report that you guys can look over on that last meeting so that we're not just kicking this down the road.

  79. So we would have an intro paragraph about the area, and then we say this is kind of the issue of the problem, and here's the recommendations to the rest. And, you know, I'll make sure I do the same, but we'll get them into the desk, and then as people go through them, then they can kind of weed out some where it gets a little choppy. I mean, let's talk about how we're going to do that, a brief overview or an introduction, and then each person, you know, like we did the first one. We separate it out to different people doing it. I thought that had a nice touch. I think that's good. The homework. That way they just wouldn't hate me or you or somebody else. Can I have to share, pretty much other than Fred and Mindy, the reports are pretty much what you guys presented today. I don't think there's anybody that needs to go back over. Oh, okay, so now there's you. But what I'm saying, I can come together. I can, like, compile it all for the next meeting and even start the PowerPoint like we did last time with just the bulleted points. Because tonight I was going through a lot of the points, but like you're saying, if you work on it in the next week or so by the next meeting, because it's a month away, I can get this preliminary report that you guys can look over on that last meeting so that we're not just kicking this down the road. So each of us would do our section with a kind of an intro of the issue. And I can even take, like, what you guys presented today. Yeah. Yeah. That's right, what Jeff was saying. Okay. I feel like the format could be, you know. again like we talk what is the problem what is the solution and what are our recommendations that's if we stick to that format that's I think it's going to keep it that'll be good all right that's great I think this is this worked out really very good all right thank you 609 I know we have someone coming in before the next for the next meeting we should anticipate or be extended in time let's don't get ourselves trapped we gotta leave it I have no problem with that you're the boss so maybe you post the meeting as an hour and a half when we get through it okay as we used to say when you're writing a term paper get it over with you know yeah and with a little luck we can be at the point where we're ready to roll yeah all right motion to adjourn all right

  80. I can get this preliminary report that you guys can look over on that last meeting so that we're not just kicking this down the road. So each of us would do our section with a kind of an intro of the issue. And I can even take, like, what you guys presented today. Yeah. Yeah. That's right, what Jeff was saying. Okay. I feel like the format could be, you know. again like we talk what is the problem what is the solution and what are our recommendations that's if we stick to that format that's I think it's going to keep it that'll be good all right that's great I think this is this worked out really very good all right thank you 609 I know we have someone coming in before the next for the next meeting we should anticipate or be extended in time let's don't get ourselves trapped we gotta leave it I have no problem with that you're the boss so maybe you post the meeting as an hour and a half when we get through it okay as we used to say when you're writing a term paper get it over with you know yeah and with a little luck we can be at the point where we're ready to roll yeah all right motion to adjourn all right motion adjourned and we're adjourned