the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Thursday, April 30, 2026 · 68 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on April 29, 2026

Summary

City council meeting discusses road issues, funding, and maintenance with the Road Commission for Oakland County, including sinkholes, speed bumps, and neighborhood road funding.

  • Concerns raised about a sinkhole and speeding in a neighborhood.
  • Citizen proposes speed bumps, signage, and lower speed limits in Bluefield Hills.
  • Road Commission for Oakland County responsible for fixing sinkholes and implementing speed bumps.
  • City council discusses safety issues and road patrol presence.
  • New road funding package in Michigan includes changes to gas tax and corporate income tax.

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Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. A quorum, so we can have a meeting. We got the minutes from the advisory committee the March 15th, and we need an approval for those minutes, you all got them, email-wise, we have a motion to approve them. So moved. Been moved. Seconded. Moved and seconded, all those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? All right, before we get to the presentation, a public comment on anything that, and hopefully it's about roads, did you want to make a comment? Okay, yeah, we give name and address and we allow three minutes so that all these other people that are here, it doesn't take forever, but that's okay. Yeah, thank you guys. My name is Eric Goldstein. I live at 4130 Water Wheel Lane. Appreciate it. I know this is a volunteer committee, so I really appreciate everything, Aaron. Thank you. I'm part of the HOA for Bennington Green, which is that community that my street serves on, and there's three-ish concerns that we have, and I'm honestly not sure if this committee is part of all of these concerns, but I feel like I just throw it out there and see what sticks. The first one is there's a fairly big sinkhole that developed on the side of our road, and it's eroding part of the road. You know, I'm 6'2", and I can stand in it. I'm worried about children. I'm worried about children. It's right next to the sewer. I don't know. I don't know. know if it's a road who like who manages it from a road standpoint pretty big man yeah public works like 10 yards 20 yards yeah I mean it's pretty big man so it sounds like the neighbors who have been trying to understand what direction to go for they've been kind of kicked back and forth between different departments and it's affecting the road so perhaps maybe it lands somewhere in your your jurisdiction as well I can give you addresses later as to where it actually is but it's within our community and I'm mainly worried from a safety issue the second thing is we have had a significant issue with in terms of speeding in our neighborhood I've had traffic what do you call the traffic radar things installed there about 49% of people are going above the speed limit I have a five a six-year-old I have a three-year-old last Sunday someone jumped a curb went up over and hit a lamp pole hit children's equipment and kept driving so this is a real issue I think not

  2. The first one is there's a fairly big sinkhole that developed on the side of our road, and it's eroding part of the road. You know, I'm 6'2", and I can stand in it. I'm worried about children. I'm worried about children. It's right next to the sewer. I don't know. I don't know. know if it's a road who like who manages it from a road standpoint pretty big man yeah public works like 10 yards 20 yards yeah I mean it's pretty big man so it sounds like the neighbors who have been trying to understand what direction to go for they've been kind of kicked back and forth between different departments and it's affecting the road so perhaps maybe it lands somewhere in your your jurisdiction as well I can give you addresses later as to where it actually is but it's within our community and I'm mainly worried from a safety issue the second thing is we have had a significant issue with in terms of speeding in our neighborhood I've had traffic what do you call the traffic radar things installed there about 49% of people are going above the speed limit I have a five a six-year-old I have a three-year-old last Sunday someone jumped a curb went up over and hit a lamp pole hit children's equipment and kept driving so this is a real issue I think not only from you know my standpoint but from an overall Bluefield Hills standpoint and I have been working with the chief Gallagher to understand how we can best serve this but my question or ask I guess of your individuals is when when is a speed bump acceptable I'm sure there is some protocol some yes yeah I'm sure that I'm very certain there is and I'm sure a lot goes into that consideration including snowplow usage and whatnot but I feel like it's a that's the only way to solve this we can't control their people's actions and I don't want that I would rather be preemptive rather than reactive and once a child gets hit other things mainly the the speeders that are coming from our neighborhood and I'm not sure if you guys know our neighborhood I got 26 seconds but there's one feeder that goes from Wabik the country club area that goes into our neighborhood and then it's basically just a straightaway so people come in Wabik floor it down our name is there a way to get signage that says no no encroaching during this time frame you know mainly just like 7 to 9 a.m. or you know something like that I've seen there be in different areas two seconds I'm

  3. and hit a lamp pole hit children's equipment and kept driving so this is a real issue I think not only from you know my standpoint but from an overall Bluefield Hills standpoint and I have been working with the chief Gallagher to understand how we can best serve this but my question or ask I guess of your individuals is when when is a speed bump acceptable I'm sure there is some protocol some yes yeah I'm sure that I'm very certain there is and I'm sure a lot goes into that consideration including snowplow usage and whatnot but I feel like it's a that's the only way to solve this we can't control their people's actions and I don't want that I would rather be preemptive rather than reactive and once a child gets hit other things mainly the the speeders that are coming from our neighborhood and I'm not sure if you guys know our neighborhood I got 26 seconds but there's one feeder that goes from Wabik the country club area that goes into our neighborhood and then it's basically just a straightaway so people come in Wabik floor it down our name is there a way to get signage that says no no encroaching during this time frame you know mainly just like 7 to 9 a.m. or you know something like that I've seen there be in different areas two seconds I'm sorry I've seen in different areas where they mentioned you know you no access during specific times and obviously people who are speeding they don't really care about the law as much but I feel like that may I don't know at least give jurisdiction to the cops and police to to try and figure out a better solution to this the the last thing I promise I'm gonna take up all your time is the the speed limit on my neighborhood is 25 miles an hour I think that's I mean obviously it's it's fine if people obeyed that but I really feel like we need to have a lower speed limit 15 miles an hour maybe an assumption that with that mile an hour difference that people might actually be going to 25 miles an hour and again I don't know what's within your guys's wheelhouse but wanted to at least throw it out there as a road related issue great however however wait okay as you know well maybe you don't know I don't know all the roads are counted though you're some the county they're owned by the county so the township has no authority to to speed limits put speed bumps in or any of that now one thing the sinkhole again it's county so that you know the road

  4. know something like that I've seen there be in different areas two seconds I'm sorry I've seen in different areas where they mentioned you know you no access during specific times and obviously people who are speeding they don't really care about the law as much but I feel like that may I don't know at least give jurisdiction to the cops and police to to try and figure out a better solution to this the the last thing I promise I'm gonna take up all your time is the the speed limit on my neighborhood is 25 miles an hour I think that's I mean obviously it's it's fine if people obeyed that but I really feel like we need to have a lower speed limit 15 miles an hour maybe an assumption that with that mile an hour difference that people might actually be going to 25 miles an hour and again I don't know what's within your guys's wheelhouse but wanted to at least throw it out there as a road related issue great however however wait okay as you know well maybe you don't know I don't know all the roads are counted though you're some the county they're owned by the county so the township has no authority to to speed limits put speed bumps in or any of that now one thing the sinkhole again it's county so that you know the road Commission I'm sorry that's this I okay right here but the Road Commission would be the one to fix to contact to fix a sinkhole or something the road commission Oakland Oakland County right are now RC OC yeah but we'll have our guys go out and evaluate it and give them heads up we haven't suited you get the address from Eric it's right at the entrance to our neighborhood park actually so it's kind of precarious location no no it's not it's I approach you don't think you want to say that she got an elevation okay so so the the speed

  5. of that now one thing the sinkhole again it's county so that you know the road Commission I'm sorry that's this I okay right here but the Road Commission would be the one to fix to contact to fix a sinkhole or something the road commission Oakland Oakland County right are now RC OC yeah but we'll have our guys go out and evaluate it and give them heads up we haven't suited you get the address from Eric it's right at the entrance to our neighborhood park actually so it's kind of precarious location no no it's not it's I approach you don't think you want to say that she got an elevation okay so so the the speed bump thing what we found recently is that there is a process to do that now the the thing is that it's it's about volume there's a requirements so much volume I don't have in front of me I have all of it I can if you I can get your email address perhaps I can eat I can send you that document comes from the Road Commission for Oakland County and it was their document and it has specifications how many cars per day etc and it isn't it isn't about speed it's about volume it's a thousand cars a day something like that it's a thousand vehicles yeah so I can send you that yeah again but that again that's the Road Commission Road Commission it's their road they control that they also control speed right and science everything is because they own it for me everything I mentioned yeah okay it's all Road Commission Oakland County Road Commission and you're you're gonna get better the best luck if you emphasize the safety part for sure I mean it's you don't have to have a you know demonstration

  6. don't think you want to say that she got an elevation okay so so the the speed bump thing what we found recently is that there is a process to do that now the the thing is that it's it's about volume there's a requirements so much volume I don't have in front of me I have all of it I can if you I can get your email address perhaps I can eat I can send you that document comes from the Road Commission for Oakland County and it was their document and it has specifications how many cars per day etc and it isn't it isn't about speed it's about volume it's a thousand cars a day something like that it's a thousand vehicles yeah so I can send you that yeah again but that again that's the Road Commission Road Commission it's their road they control that they also control speed right and science everything is because they own it for me everything I mentioned yeah okay it's all Road Commission Oakland County Road Commission and you're you're gonna get better the best luck if you emphasize the safety part for sure I mean it's you don't have to have a you know demonstration of safety problems but the more you push that the more likely they'll listen awesome well i appreciate it you know it sounds like our neighbor was getting kind of a run around with the sinkhole issue so at least we have a direction now and i truly appreciate it i think that's where you need to go to get it done and and again uh mike said that he would have rp you know somebody and work with you and help you get direct get get that done yeah and just so the board here knows eric came to the meeting monday night and spoke to the board of trustees about these same issues and then our chief of police jimmy gallagher was there and spoke to him right and then i met with jimmy the next day so we'll have road patrols in there good and we're able to do more of road patrol road patrols in neighborhoods now because we're almost fully staffed where if you look back over a year ago we were down 14 officers wow which really limited our some of our abilities so now we're almost full so thank you for bringing it to our attention and um we'll we'll keep working with the pd on it and i i did meet with the jimmy gallagher the next day and i i know he talked to you and your other gentleman that was here from ross ross too yeah and just to follow up just to make sure that uh everyone knows i appreciate it you know he was one of the cops uh actually the guy who

  7. of safety problems but the more you push that the more likely they'll listen awesome well i appreciate it you know it sounds like our neighbor was getting kind of a run around with the sinkhole issue so at least we have a direction now and i truly appreciate it i think that's where you need to go to get it done and and again uh mike said that he would have rp you know somebody and work with you and help you get direct get get that done yeah and just so the board here knows eric came to the meeting monday night and spoke to the board of trustees about these same issues and then our chief of police jimmy gallagher was there and spoke to him right and then i met with jimmy the next day so we'll have road patrols in there good and we're able to do more of road patrol road patrols in neighborhoods now because we're almost fully staffed where if you look back over a year ago we were down 14 officers wow which really limited our some of our abilities so now we're almost full so thank you for bringing it to our attention and um we'll we'll keep working with the pd on it and i i did meet with the jimmy gallagher the next day and i i know he talked to you and your other gentleman that was here from ross ross too yeah and just to follow up just to make sure that uh everyone knows i appreciate it you know he was one of the cops uh actually the guy who was standing in the back was outside my house the next day it's fantastic my kid wrote him a letter saying thank you for keeping me safe you know fantastic all right thanks very very much thank you thank you thank you thank you Just one reminder, though, for the, we need to speak into the, and I'm guilty of it myself not doing that, but we need to speak into the microphone so that it gets recorded. Okay, there's nobody else here to speak, so let's move on to the program, to the, yeah, to the agenda. Gary, from RCOC, please. Thank you for having me again today, appreciate you coming back, explain a little bit more about what the road commission does and how our associate, how we partnership with, partner with the township here. We'll, we'll get started right into the presentation here, and actually before I get started, I'll actually, I'll have staff reach out to him, I'll get his information and we'll, we'll talk to him about a number of those things, but just for information, the state law doesn't allow 50. 15 miles an hour, so it's, it's a state law issue, not a road commission or anybody, so, but there's a number of things we can talk to him about there, and the, the whole, I'm sure, this cruise will take a look at it, and if it's something that you can't do, then it'll give it to us, so, we'll take care of that, so.

  8. sure that uh everyone knows i appreciate it you know he was one of the cops uh actually the guy who was standing in the back was outside my house the next day it's fantastic my kid wrote him a letter saying thank you for keeping me safe you know fantastic all right thanks very very much thank you thank you thank you thank you Just one reminder, though, for the, we need to speak into the, and I'm guilty of it myself not doing that, but we need to speak into the microphone so that it gets recorded. Okay, there's nobody else here to speak, so let's move on to the program, to the, yeah, to the agenda. Gary, from RCOC, please. Thank you for having me again today, appreciate you coming back, explain a little bit more about what the road commission does and how our associate, how we partnership with, partner with the township here. We'll, we'll get started right into the presentation here, and actually before I get started, I'll actually, I'll have staff reach out to him, I'll get his information and we'll, we'll talk to him about a number of those things, but just for information, the state law doesn't allow 50. 15 miles an hour, so it's, it's a state law issue, not a road commission or anybody, so, but there's a number of things we can talk to him about there, and the, the whole, I'm sure, this cruise will take a look at it, and if it's something that you can't do, then it'll give it to us, so, we'll take care of that, so. Good. All right, first of all, um, this is just, oh, what was it? Oh. You can see it, actually, it's that one there. Oh. And forward it on your own, or you can give me the nod. How about I just nod to you? I'm going to be some more. Thank you. If you're not, yeah, go ahead. This is a slide, um, we showed last time, and we're, we showed almost everywhere we go, because this is a. critical slide and we remember one thing and every presentation we give is we ask we often get asked why are the roads the way they are they're in such bad shape why is Michigan worse and the simple fact comes down the matter is money money drives everything there's not a rocket science industry we're in the more money you put into it the better roads you get that's that's uniform across the country can everybody be better at what they do absolutely but in general we still do government agencies across the country and we're all gonna fall in that same bucket and this and what's important here is you go back to 1964 where did Michigan spend their tax revenues we were in the we were 43rd out of 50 states and essentially we're in the 40s until just recently in 2015 we had a raise that put us into the 30s and we just got a new one which we'll

  9. 15 miles an hour, so it's, it's a state law issue, not a road commission or anybody, so, but there's a number of things we can talk to him about there, and the, the whole, I'm sure, this cruise will take a look at it, and if it's something that you can't do, then it'll give it to us, so, we'll take care of that, so. Good. All right, first of all, um, this is just, oh, what was it? Oh. You can see it, actually, it's that one there. Oh. And forward it on your own, or you can give me the nod. How about I just nod to you? I'm going to be some more. Thank you. If you're not, yeah, go ahead. This is a slide, um, we showed last time, and we're, we showed almost everywhere we go, because this is a. critical slide and we remember one thing and every presentation we give is we ask we often get asked why are the roads the way they are they're in such bad shape why is Michigan worse and the simple fact comes down the matter is money money drives everything there's not a rocket science industry we're in the more money you put into it the better roads you get that's that's uniform across the country can everybody be better at what they do absolutely but in general we still do government agencies across the country and we're all gonna fall in that same bucket and this and what's important here is you go back to 1964 where did Michigan spend their tax revenues we were in the we were 43rd out of 50 states and essentially we're in the 40s until just recently in 2015 we had a raise that put us into the 30s and we just got a new one which we'll talk about shortly they'll probably when we do this again will put us somewhere in the mid 20s I'm guessing but it took us 60 years to get there it's not overnight going to take us we're not gonna make these roads better it was 60 years of underfunding six decades so it's going to take a while to get these roads back even with some in and our funding again it's not at the top of the country we're in the middle now so it's not like we're gonna be passing a lot of places over the time next so essentially what's that mean you know in general the United States spends an average of about five hundred thirty six dollars a person and Michigan spends four hundred and eight so again if you're looking at you know we just spend less money on roads and you're going to get less out less money spent and less money raised less money spent at the end of the day next but wait yeah everybody's heard about this new funding package in October we got a new funding package which was great we talked about up to that point in time the previous funding package was really in jeopardy of really falling off what we call a fiscal cliff but it was nice to see that the legislature the governor listened and they did come up with some new funding which was very important and very timely we've done a lot of good work over the last 10 years improving our roads if you go back and

  10. 2015 we had a raise that put us into the 30s and we just got a new one which we'll talk about shortly they'll probably when we do this again will put us somewhere in the mid 20s I'm guessing but it took us 60 years to get there it's not overnight going to take us we're not gonna make these roads better it was 60 years of underfunding six decades so it's going to take a while to get these roads back even with some in and our funding again it's not at the top of the country we're in the middle now so it's not like we're gonna be passing a lot of places over the time next so essentially what's that mean you know in general the United States spends an average of about five hundred thirty six dollars a person and Michigan spends four hundred and eight so again if you're looking at you know we just spend less money on roads and you're going to get less out less money spent and less money raised less money spent at the end of the day next but wait yeah everybody's heard about this new funding package in October we got a new funding package which was great we talked about up to that point in time the previous funding package was really in jeopardy of really falling off what we call a fiscal cliff but it was nice to see that the legislature the governor listened and they did come up with some new funding which was very important and very timely we've done a lot of good work over the last 10 years improving our roads if you go back and look at what the roads were prior to 2015 compared to they are now they're drastically different condition all the data and shows that so what is this new road funding package first of all the big piece was they essentially took on gas in Michigan we're a handful of states that does this they put a sales tax on top of gas and none of that went to roads so when you're talking three dollars a gallon there's 18 cents four dollars a gallon right now 24 cents was was on gas but wasn't going to roads they changed that they converted that 6% sales tax at the time and it was about 20 percent 20 cent gas that great so we would so that was a nice change there it's simplified things was always that the elephant in the room whenever we talked about road funding they'll say well why don't we get more funding going to roads well they were taking they were skimming some of it off that was actually being paid for people that were driving the roads so that has changed now which is a great thing and that's that's a nice thing to have in fact as a side issue if it gas would be about four cents higher right now if it was the old way not a big deal but it would be higher than it's high out there now but under the sales tax way it would even been higher so it's a little bit less because of that they also and that that

  11. lot of good work over the last 10 years improving our roads if you go back and look at what the roads were prior to 2015 compared to they are now they're drastically different condition all the data and shows that so what is this new road funding package first of all the big piece was they essentially took on gas in Michigan we're a handful of states that does this they put a sales tax on top of gas and none of that went to roads so when you're talking three dollars a gallon there's 18 cents four dollars a gallon right now 24 cents was was on gas but wasn't going to roads they changed that they converted that 6% sales tax at the time and it was about 20 percent 20 cent gas that great so we would so that was a nice change there it's simplified things was always that the elephant in the room whenever we talked about road funding they'll say well why don't we get more funding going to roads well they were taking they were skimming some of it off that was actually being paid for people that were driving the roads so that has changed now which is a great thing and that's that's a nice thing to have in fact as a side issue if it gas would be about four cents higher right now if it was the old way not a big deal but it would be higher than it's high out there now but under the sales tax way it would even been higher so it's a little bit less because of that they also and that that went into the traditional formula that we split up we call an act 51 formula it goes to all the cities the state and villages and road commissions out there then they create a new fund called the neighborhood roads fund and while the name isn't very good in this case it does designate a new final new funding no longer this money that goes in this fund does not go through act 51 anymore the traditional way so people didn't like the way act 51 was set up but that was debated for a long time so now the money that goes into that is distributed a little bit different way favors the local governments a little bit more than it used to so that that's a plus for us so essentially the on the new the new neighborhood funnel about 1.1 to 1.5 billion by 2030 and that comes from they're redirecting nearly 700 million in corporate income tax that was going other places got redirected the roads now and that grows to a billion by 2030 and then they create a new 20% wholesale tax on marijuana which will generate about 420 million dollars a year what we did lose though was a six hundred million dollars that was in that we were getting from the income tax we lost so there was some gain quite a bit

  12. been higher so it's a little bit less because of that they also and that that went into the traditional formula that we split up we call an act 51 formula it goes to all the cities the state and villages and road commissions out there then they create a new fund called the neighborhood roads fund and while the name isn't very good in this case it does designate a new final new funding no longer this money that goes in this fund does not go through act 51 anymore the traditional way so people didn't like the way act 51 was set up but that was debated for a long time so now the money that goes into that is distributed a little bit different way favors the local governments a little bit more than it used to so that that's a plus for us so essentially the on the new the new neighborhood funnel about 1.1 to 1.5 billion by 2030 and that comes from they're redirecting nearly 700 million in corporate income tax that was going other places got redirected the roads now and that grows to a billion by 2030 and then they create a new 20% wholesale tax on marijuana which will generate about 420 million dollars a year what we did lose though was a six hundred million dollars that was in that we were getting from the income tax we lost so there was some gain quite a bit game but then we lost 600 million in theirs so essentially the bottom line is about 1.5 billion dollar with growing to about 1.9 billion by 2030 and then the way it works from there is we actually the funding changes a little bit we actually start to lose a little bit money in that at 2031 so maybe something could work on later down the road so Gary with with the name of neighborhood road funds there is there an implication that it will be directed towards what we would call subdivisions yes and we will so we lost 600 million as I said that this is a little tricky part that's going on right now um it's not really been pushed out there too much but the reality is right now we lost 600 million dollars a year that 600 million I talked about right off the bat on October 1 okay so but we didn't get any new revenue yet so the first four months of this year we were in the negative by about 10 to 15 percent a month so even though we said they were getting more money we were in the hole right now we're in the hole about for us about somewhere in order of 10 to 15 million dollars this year in the hole right now so the gas tax started in January 1 which means we start to see

  13. game but then we lost 600 million in theirs so essentially the bottom line is about 1.5 billion dollar with growing to about 1.9 billion by 2030 and then the way it works from there is we actually the funding changes a little bit we actually start to lose a little bit money in that at 2031 so maybe something could work on later down the road so Gary with with the name of neighborhood road funds there is there an implication that it will be directed towards what we would call subdivisions yes and we will so we lost 600 million as I said that this is a little tricky part that's going on right now um it's not really been pushed out there too much but the reality is right now we lost 600 million dollars a year that 600 million I talked about right off the bat on October 1 okay so but we didn't get any new revenue yet so the first four months of this year we were in the negative by about 10 to 15 percent a month so even though we said they were getting more money we were in the hole right now we're in the hole about for us about somewhere in order of 10 to 15 million dollars this year in the hole right now so the gas tax started in January 1 which means we start to see that in our pockets in April which we just got we got April which was pretty good we just got the main rather than the one that's gonna be coming in May and actually it wasn't very good good so so We have to learn some things about this new revenue source to see where it's really going. The corporate income tax, that new part that goes into the neighborhood roads fund, we probably won't see that until the end of the summer or fall at best case scenario. I want to see if I, the bottom line, what happens there in the marijuana taxes next year. So those two funds that go into that neighborhood road fund, which we'll talk about more in a minute, the issue with those is there's a big delay in them. So corporate income tax, all the corporate income tax for the state is feeding a whole bunch of other places that are taking it first as the year goes on. So in October and November and January, other places are getting that revenue. And then we're the very last ones at the very end of it to get the money. So corporate income taxes are being paid in June, July, August are the ones we're going to get, which we'll then see in August, September, October. So there's a real delay in that every year. So we literally, most of that money will be coming in the following fiscal year for when we're supposed to get it, actually.

  14. hole right now so the gas tax started in January 1 which means we start to see that in our pockets in April which we just got we got April which was pretty good we just got the main rather than the one that's gonna be coming in May and actually it wasn't very good good so so We have to learn some things about this new revenue source to see where it's really going. The corporate income tax, that new part that goes into the neighborhood roads fund, we probably won't see that until the end of the summer or fall at best case scenario. I want to see if I, the bottom line, what happens there in the marijuana taxes next year. So those two funds that go into that neighborhood road fund, which we'll talk about more in a minute, the issue with those is there's a big delay in them. So corporate income tax, all the corporate income tax for the state is feeding a whole bunch of other places that are taking it first as the year goes on. So in October and November and January, other places are getting that revenue. And then we're the very last ones at the very end of it to get the money. So corporate income taxes are being paid in June, July, August are the ones we're going to get, which we'll then see in August, September, October. So there's a real delay in that every year. So we literally, most of that money will be coming in the following fiscal year for when we're supposed to get it, actually. It's a really unusual situation. They're going to create some interesting accounting things we're going to have to do down the road. The marijuana tax, again, they haven't figured out exactly how they're doing it. But if it's like the current one part they're connecting, we essentially get it a year later. They have to collect it all, figure out what it is, and then they give it to us later. So those two funds, for example, the neighborhood road fund like that, we're not going to see any of that money significant amounts, you know, even though it was last October. it'll be at least a year back to over by a year and a half from then that we actually start to see that money is that is there still litigation going on regarding the marijuana tax there is yes so there certainly is that there's that issue that marijuana tax may never even come now the plus thing is that at least the initial courts have not stopped the collection from happening and the state is starting to collect it so at least they're it's it's going in the right it's that's always a plus if they're not collecting at all it's a real problem so at least they're starting to collect it so whether we ever get that amount or whatever it ever comes that's unknown and that's again a big part of that they would road fund we're talking about we'll talk about a minute so here's just a quick breakdown now where all of our money comes from the revenues so 49% in

  15. So we literally, most of that money will be coming in the following fiscal year for when we're supposed to get it, actually. It's a really unusual situation. They're going to create some interesting accounting things we're going to have to do down the road. The marijuana tax, again, they haven't figured out exactly how they're doing it. But if it's like the current one part they're connecting, we essentially get it a year later. They have to collect it all, figure out what it is, and then they give it to us later. So those two funds, for example, the neighborhood road fund like that, we're not going to see any of that money significant amounts, you know, even though it was last October. it'll be at least a year back to over by a year and a half from then that we actually start to see that money is that is there still litigation going on regarding the marijuana tax there is yes so there certainly is that there's that issue that marijuana tax may never even come now the plus thing is that at least the initial courts have not stopped the collection from happening and the state is starting to collect it so at least they're it's it's going in the right it's that's always a plus if they're not collecting at all it's a real problem so at least they're starting to collect it so whether we ever get that amount or whatever it ever comes that's unknown and that's again a big part of that they would road fund we're talking about we'll talk about a minute so here's just a quick breakdown now where all of our money comes from the revenues so 49% in the gas and diesel 12% would be the mayor would be funding the corporate income tax 7% from marijuana a couple different places and some other pieces their registration fees now the the one part of the note about this is prior to this new change in new revenues always great don't say anything wrong about that but we were down to about gas and diesel being about 40% of our overall revenue which means it's less affected by the electric vehicles and hybrids that are out there now we're up to 49% when there's a big you know people are buying more of those will be a bigger hit in our revenue when that occurs down the road we were trying to get to revenue that was less affected by the electric vehicles they actually went the other way so isn't the gas tax though based upon the dollar amount of the of the purchase of the gasoline it's not based upon the actual gallons you've used the gas tax yeah so yes that's strictly per gallon it's per gallon it's per gallon it's not a percent it's a cent per gallon so we were at about fifty one percent one cents a gallon now so that's what it that's what it is no matter what the cost again there are many states that do that they do the sales tax yeah sales tax is only a handful left we were one of

  16. quick breakdown now where all of our money comes from the revenues so 49% in the gas and diesel 12% would be the mayor would be funding the corporate income tax 7% from marijuana a couple different places and some other pieces their registration fees now the the one part of the note about this is prior to this new change in new revenues always great don't say anything wrong about that but we were down to about gas and diesel being about 40% of our overall revenue which means it's less affected by the electric vehicles and hybrids that are out there now we're up to 49% when there's a big you know people are buying more of those will be a bigger hit in our revenue when that occurs down the road we were trying to get to revenue that was less affected by the electric vehicles they actually went the other way so isn't the gas tax though based upon the dollar amount of the of the purchase of the gasoline it's not based upon the actual gallons you've used the gas tax yeah so yes that's strictly per gallon it's per gallon it's per gallon it's not a percent it's a cent per gallon so we were at about fifty one percent one cents a gallon now so that's what it that's what it is no matter what the cost again there are many states that do that they do the sales tax yeah sales tax is only a handful left we were one of them and we were out of it now so and that's how I was mentioned at the beginning if it wasn't a way to set up right now if it was sales tax now gas tax that should be higher because it's on four dollars a gallon now versus whatever so it appears that 29% of the funding is going is coming from the registration fees of vehicles mm-hmm correct roughly what what's the dollar value of that do you know I do not know okay question I have Gary it's so out of this very nice pie chart how much of that revenue percentage wise is designated for residential roads so small so there's no requirement to that I mean everybody's different so it's on the From the standpoint of our committee, it's pretty meaningless. I'm not saying that to embarrass you or anything. We'll get to some discussion that does change that a little bit now though. We get a small amount, we talked about it last time here, we get a small amount of money which we use to do some maintenance in the subdivisions and

  17. that they do the sales tax yeah sales tax is only a handful left we were one of them and we were out of it now so and that's how I was mentioned at the beginning if it wasn't a way to set up right now if it was sales tax now gas tax that should be higher because it's on four dollars a gallon now versus whatever so it appears that 29% of the funding is going is coming from the registration fees of vehicles mm-hmm correct roughly what what's the dollar value of that do you know I do not know okay question I have Gary it's so out of this very nice pie chart how much of that revenue percentage wise is designated for residential roads so small so there's no requirement to that I mean everybody's different so it's on the From the standpoint of our committee, it's pretty meaningless. I'm not saying that to embarrass you or anything. We'll get to some discussion that does change that a little bit now though. We get a small amount, we talked about it last time here, we get a small amount of money which we use to do some maintenance in the subdivisions and pay Bloomfield Township to do some maintenance. It's obviously not enough to do much in the subdivisions to it. Now, we also talked about last time that most cities who spend more money in there have road millages. That go with two paying for their sub-streets. We can't, the road commission can't have a millage, so we can't raise a millage and then put it into our sub-division streets, which is what most cities and villages do. I got two things, one for myself, one for someone who's not here tonight. But other state, you said, very few states have sales tax. But many states have tolls, and they raise a lot of money. And a lot of money from out-of-state people who go through, okay? So, we've talked about this before, it's impractical to do that. But what would be the ramifications if we were to put tolls on our roads in Michigan? Now, I know it's hypothetical, because I don't think that's going to happen, or it's possible. At least that's a toll. But what would happen if there was? Do you have any idea? Well, the state of Michigan did do a study. They released a study probably a year ago that went through that. And if you go on the state website, you can probably find that on there. ≫ ≫ ≫

  18. we get a small amount of money which we use to do some maintenance in the subdivisions and pay Bloomfield Township to do some maintenance. It's obviously not enough to do much in the subdivisions to it. Now, we also talked about last time that most cities who spend more money in there have road millages. That go with two paying for their sub-streets. We can't, the road commission can't have a millage, so we can't raise a millage and then put it into our sub-division streets, which is what most cities and villages do. I got two things, one for myself, one for someone who's not here tonight. But other state, you said, very few states have sales tax. But many states have tolls, and they raise a lot of money. And a lot of money from out-of-state people who go through, okay? So, we've talked about this before, it's impractical to do that. But what would be the ramifications if we were to put tolls on our roads in Michigan? Now, I know it's hypothetical, because I don't think that's going to happen, or it's possible. At least that's a toll. But what would happen if there was? Do you have any idea? Well, the state of Michigan did do a study. They released a study probably a year ago that went through that. And if you go on the state website, you can probably find that on there. ≫ ≫ ≫ A lot of people may disagree with the results of that study, so I guess experts are going to have different views on it. We're not a pass-through state generally, so it's generally considered. That's one of the reasons why it's not considered. If you raise, I mean, pick your poison and raise it where you raise your revenue. Do you want it in tolls or do you want it in gas tax? Do you want it in registration fees? It doesn't really matter where you raise it. It's what politically the will is and the will of the people to pay for it. And so I'm just saying, my thought on toll roads is that, first of all, you can't toll anything but a freeway. So the revenue has to go back into that road that you toll. I'm not going to say, as a local agency or subdivisions, we're not going to see any of that if somebody tolls those roads. On top of it, you're already paying the gas tax on top of there in your registration to drive a road. Now you're going to pay something on top of it to drive that road. So you're really paying a lot more to drive per mile on that road than any other, but why? And then you have a tremendous amount of overhead, too, that's required to run those toll agencies. So the first portion of all that money you raise goes to another agency to pay them the overhead to take care of that, where if I raise a penny of gas tax, it goes 100% in the roads now. It doesn't cost me any more. But none of that money would flow to residential roads anyway.

  19. A lot of people may disagree with the results of that study, so I guess experts are going to have different views on it. We're not a pass-through state generally, so it's generally considered. That's one of the reasons why it's not considered. If you raise, I mean, pick your poison and raise it where you raise your revenue. Do you want it in tolls or do you want it in gas tax? Do you want it in registration fees? It doesn't really matter where you raise it. It's what politically the will is and the will of the people to pay for it. And so I'm just saying, my thought on toll roads is that, first of all, you can't toll anything but a freeway. So the revenue has to go back into that road that you toll. I'm not going to say, as a local agency or subdivisions, we're not going to see any of that if somebody tolls those roads. On top of it, you're already paying the gas tax on top of there in your registration to drive a road. Now you're going to pay something on top of it to drive that road. So you're really paying a lot more to drive per mile on that road than any other, but why? And then you have a tremendous amount of overhead, too, that's required to run those toll agencies. So the first portion of all that money you raise goes to another agency to pay them the overhead to take care of that, where if I raise a penny of gas tax, it goes 100% in the roads now. It doesn't cost me any more. But none of that money would flow to residential roads anyway. It would not. And so just to clarify, part of the dysfunctional relationship is the road commission essentially owns the residential roads, but you don't have the authority to tax. That's the race. That's the race. tax revenue for those roads right the township doesn't own the roads and the county doesn't own the roads but does the county or the township have the legal authority to raise a tax for the roads that you don't own yes yes they do yes through a millage yep and we just it wasn't a local roads but an Independence Township they wanted they were worried about their primary roads that are wrote the road commission roads and they raised a millage just to improve those roads so the other one is someone who's not here Jay Shaw is not here and he emailed and I'm gonna just read it exactly as he sent it with the question he said under in a quote under the new budget comma RCOC will will increase subdivision repaving participation end quote and the question is how is this increased computed by the township I know where that call came from but he sent it I was asked to read it so let me get to that we can touch on

  20. But none of that money would flow to residential roads anyway. It would not. And so just to clarify, part of the dysfunctional relationship is the road commission essentially owns the residential roads, but you don't have the authority to tax. That's the race. That's the race. tax revenue for those roads right the township doesn't own the roads and the county doesn't own the roads but does the county or the township have the legal authority to raise a tax for the roads that you don't own yes yes they do yes through a millage yep and we just it wasn't a local roads but an Independence Township they wanted they were worried about their primary roads that are wrote the road commission roads and they raised a millage just to improve those roads so the other one is someone who's not here Jay Shaw is not here and he emailed and I'm gonna just read it exactly as he sent it with the question he said under in a quote under the new budget comma RCOC will will increase subdivision repaving participation end quote and the question is how is this increased computed by the township I know where that call came from but he sent it I was asked to read it so let me get to that we can touch on all that related to subdivision I'm sure it's the right at the end of the day whatever wants to hear about them also so what in that neighborhood road fund what happens all that money it goes into it the first hundred million in it goes to local bridges so that that's a nice thing that helps everybody there's a lot of bridges out so many bridges that need help out there and this will help go to get some of those bridges fit fixed statewide 40 million for grade separation at railroads those out there people are doing that they want money for and they politically got it 100 million now 35% goes to transit 65% is doing infrastructure projects authority fund which the best we can tell it's like gobbledygook for governor's projects to do transit we guess it's the best of our knowledge and then the 20% goes to MDOT and then the remaining funds go to the county roads and city villages so and these are all in order that this money is received on top of all the other state I mentioned in the beginning all these other state components that get the money we are the very last very last tip of it at the end that finally sees the money so any money that comes in it there's this very end of the fiscal year before we will see any of that money is that prescriptive in the legislation or is that administrative decisions prescriptive

  21. from but he sent it I was asked to read it so let me get to that we can touch on all that related to subdivision I'm sure it's the right at the end of the day whatever wants to hear about them also so what in that neighborhood road fund what happens all that money it goes into it the first hundred million in it goes to local bridges so that that's a nice thing that helps everybody there's a lot of bridges out so many bridges that need help out there and this will help go to get some of those bridges fit fixed statewide 40 million for grade separation at railroads those out there people are doing that they want money for and they politically got it 100 million now 35% goes to transit 65% is doing infrastructure projects authority fund which the best we can tell it's like gobbledygook for governor's projects to do transit we guess it's the best of our knowledge and then the 20% goes to MDOT and then the remaining funds go to the county roads and city villages so and these are all in order that this money is received on top of all the other state I mentioned in the beginning all these other state components that get the money we are the very last very last tip of it at the end that finally sees the money so any money that comes in it there's this very end of the fiscal year before we will see any of that money is that prescriptive in the legislation or is that administrative decisions prescriptive that's the way the legislation was laid out the neighborhood road fund here we go on that we talked about the delay in getting those funds does not provide significantly more money than the dollars have been distributed through that 51 and initially there was a tremendous shift to put the most that money in the local roads it by the time it went through the political process and wins and came out at the end there was not nearly as much difference as what we would typically would have seen anyway so again that it became it's a different fund but it's not going to change the way we do business a whole lot relative to the amount of money we receive the distribution actually in 2031 the five years from now she drops for us will start losing money in that fund because they redistribute the money different ways and the state gets more money. Obviously, the wholesale Marirana tax is still in court. We mentioned about being later in the year as well with that in number five. Six with these funds will cover 100% of local road culverts now. It used to be 50-50, so this is one area the local governments will see, and we've done several culverts with Bluefield Township in the last five or six years that the township had to cover half the cost.

  22. prescriptive in the legislation or is that administrative decisions prescriptive that's the way the legislation was laid out the neighborhood road fund here we go on that we talked about the delay in getting those funds does not provide significantly more money than the dollars have been distributed through that 51 and initially there was a tremendous shift to put the most that money in the local roads it by the time it went through the political process and wins and came out at the end there was not nearly as much difference as what we would typically would have seen anyway so again that it became it's a different fund but it's not going to change the way we do business a whole lot relative to the amount of money we receive the distribution actually in 2031 the five years from now she drops for us will start losing money in that fund because they redistribute the money different ways and the state gets more money. Obviously, the wholesale Marirana tax is still in court. We mentioned about being later in the year as well with that in number five. Six with these funds will cover 100% of local road culverts now. It used to be 50-50, so this is one area the local governments will see, and we've done several culverts with Bluefield Township in the last five or six years that the township had to cover half the cost. We will no longer have that. It's not required into law anymore, so we will be paying for those, and those are getting expensive now. They used to be $300,000 and $400,000 a culvert. They're generally averaging $70,000, $809,000 a culvert now, so a significant amount of money there to do a culvert. And culverts, just to define those, those are something less than 20 feet. Once it hits 20 feet, it's defined as a bridge and gets different funding. Under 20 feet. It may look like a bridge, but it's a culvert. So it doesn't matter what it looks like. It's the span that it carries over the river. And then despite the neighborhood name, there are no restrictions on where money can be spent. Okay, again, the name is not great here. We can spend that money anywhere the Road Commission chooses to spend that money. It's no different than any other dollar we get. The only thing that changed was the local, we can't make a local pay for a culvert now, 50%. That's about the only thing that... changed okay just that's that's the law okay that's how the law is written all right next so does that mean that the the money basically just goes into the road commission's general fund and right wherever you have a whole you you use that it doesn't necessarily mean any any of it goes to the neighborhood correct

  23. had to cover half the cost. We will no longer have that. It's not required into law anymore, so we will be paying for those, and those are getting expensive now. They used to be $300,000 and $400,000 a culvert. They're generally averaging $70,000, $809,000 a culvert now, so a significant amount of money there to do a culvert. And culverts, just to define those, those are something less than 20 feet. Once it hits 20 feet, it's defined as a bridge and gets different funding. Under 20 feet. It may look like a bridge, but it's a culvert. So it doesn't matter what it looks like. It's the span that it carries over the river. And then despite the neighborhood name, there are no restrictions on where money can be spent. Okay, again, the name is not great here. We can spend that money anywhere the Road Commission chooses to spend that money. It's no different than any other dollar we get. The only thing that changed was the local, we can't make a local pay for a culvert now, 50%. That's about the only thing that... changed okay just that's that's the law okay that's how the law is written all right next so does that mean that the the money basically just goes into the road commission's general fund and right wherever you have a whole you you use that it doesn't necessarily mean any any of it goes to the neighborhood correct that's correct you know this is slides a little bit out of order but I'll get the back more details on that in a second but what does this mean for the road Commission this year was supposed to be 46 million based on what everything that was the number they kept giving us from the state but that number is gonna probably be more like 5 or 10 now based on what we're waiting it's gonna go from 46 to 10 yeah yeah because it's all being pushed they got pushed back a year essentially but FY 27 it should be the 45 46 yes yes correct correct right and then probably the 28 will now be the 61 year they're doing so well but again we're it's early on in this money until we see the money really coming in this is all projections and people are this is what they're projecting me the money right show me the money and I don't know it's tough to spend it until you have it put it that way so and then so how will we use this money and this is an important part first of all these are we're waiting we're you know until we get all the money coming and we know exactly what you get you can't nail down everything we can start to put priorities together and start saying you know this is where we want to put some emphasis on where the money

  24. that it doesn't necessarily mean any any of it goes to the neighborhood correct that's correct you know this is slides a little bit out of order but I'll get the back more details on that in a second but what does this mean for the road Commission this year was supposed to be 46 million based on what everything that was the number they kept giving us from the state but that number is gonna probably be more like 5 or 10 now based on what we're waiting it's gonna go from 46 to 10 yeah yeah because it's all being pushed they got pushed back a year essentially but FY 27 it should be the 45 46 yes yes correct correct right and then probably the 28 will now be the 61 year they're doing so well but again we're it's early on in this money until we see the money really coming in this is all projections and people are this is what they're projecting me the money right show me the money and I don't know it's tough to spend it until you have it put it that way so and then so how will we use this money and this is an important part first of all these are we're waiting we're you know until we get all the money coming and we know exactly what you get you can't nail down everything we can start to put priorities together and start saying you know this is where we want to put some emphasis on where the money So we will be doing more overlays and concrete repairs out there. We typically have a, this year we'll be doing 50 miles of overlays across the county. We've done 700 miles over the last eight to nine years. And we're going to continue that program and expand that program to get all of our major roads in good shape. Place culverts on local roads, again, I talked about that 50-50. We have a lot of culverts out there across the county. Bloomfield Township not being one of them because they were always stepping up to the table to pay, but there's a lot of them that won't pay. And these culverts are getting worse and worse and worse to what they're going to fail. So this will, now we can get back to doing that because, so some of our initial money from the neighborhood road funds are going to go right into paying that 50% of the culverts, for culverts now. When you refer to repaving more roads, that doesn't appear to be a neighborhood residential road. So you're not referring to this money going to residential neighborhood. Correct, correct. That's our primary road system, our 900 miles of primary roads. More intersection safety improvements, again, an area where we have always had difficult money getting funding for, but an area we feel is a high safety need is that improving intersection safety, and we're going to be doing more of that.

  25. So we will be doing more overlays and concrete repairs out there. We typically have a, this year we'll be doing 50 miles of overlays across the county. We've done 700 miles over the last eight to nine years. And we're going to continue that program and expand that program to get all of our major roads in good shape. Place culverts on local roads, again, I talked about that 50-50. We have a lot of culverts out there across the county. Bloomfield Township not being one of them because they were always stepping up to the table to pay, but there's a lot of them that won't pay. And these culverts are getting worse and worse and worse to what they're going to fail. So this will, now we can get back to doing that because, so some of our initial money from the neighborhood road funds are going to go right into paying that 50% of the culverts, for culverts now. When you refer to repaving more roads, that doesn't appear to be a neighborhood residential road. So you're not referring to this money going to residential neighborhood. Correct, correct. That's our primary road system, our 900 miles of primary roads. More intersection safety improvements, again, an area where we have always had difficult money getting funding for, but an area we feel is a high safety need is that improving intersection safety, and we're going to be doing more of that. We will be increasing road paving participation with subdivisions, SADs, SADs will still exist, but we will, we will be putting, right now we put half of our administration expenses into it now, and we'll start putting an additional amount into those. those as well to the extent we don't know how much right now well we've done a few this year we added some money this year to a few of them as we started we started going here but the exact number and in the full program well we're gonna wait to see how much we real money we really get you know if we get our full we forget our whole amount of money we'll put a lot more money in if half the money comes that they said we're gonna get we're not gonna build a put as much that was I think that's the one the question that yes yes absolutely absolutely and we want to make a difference in that and when we know the difficulty in that area we hear it you know the money is there we're we're gonna make a big impact there but we we just don't know what that money is yet realistically do you think it'll be about this time next year that you'll really know how much money you have and then how much that participation can be yeah yeah I would I would think a year from now we have a very good understanding where the money is coming in at that point and we'll be able to make a more informed decision it doesn't mean we're not gonna help now we're gonna help we're just not

  26. but an area we feel is a high safety need is that improving intersection safety, and we're going to be doing more of that. We will be increasing road paving participation with subdivisions, SADs, SADs will still exist, but we will, we will be putting, right now we put half of our administration expenses into it now, and we'll start putting an additional amount into those. those as well to the extent we don't know how much right now well we've done a few this year we added some money this year to a few of them as we started we started going here but the exact number and in the full program well we're gonna wait to see how much we real money we really get you know if we get our full we forget our whole amount of money we'll put a lot more money in if half the money comes that they said we're gonna get we're not gonna build a put as much that was I think that's the one the question that yes yes absolutely absolutely and we want to make a difference in that and when we know the difficulty in that area we hear it you know the money is there we're we're gonna make a big impact there but we we just don't know what that money is yet realistically do you think it'll be about this time next year that you'll really know how much money you have and then how much that participation can be yeah yeah I would I would think a year from now we have a very good understanding where the money is coming in at that point and we'll be able to make a more informed decision it doesn't mean we're not gonna help now we're gonna help we're just not putting a formal program that says we will put X amount in for all these things for all for all these come in as they come one off we're gonna take a look to see how we can help them and try and see what we can do for them but we'll put an official program out that everybody's putting special assessments together can say hey we've got this much money when I go out so they'll know ahead of time going in to how much help we'll be getting so so that's something we want to get to that point because we feel that's the point that we want to get the help with the momentum of their seat is what they need to know up front what they're going to be getting so the only way to avoid an SAD is that if it's a safety traffic issue at this point or they're always going to be homeowner participation and fixing the roads in front there's always gonna be as far as long until they unless they change the funding structure of how we get money if you know right now we don't receive any you know property taxes so if unless they change the way that goes or where money comes from no special assessments will still be done and and even even at the city level so they still have to special assess to in places even as cities where they have road villages so and to get money from public at 51 so yeah

  27. decision it doesn't mean we're not gonna help now we're gonna help we're just not putting a formal program that says we will put X amount in for all these things for all for all these come in as they come one off we're gonna take a look to see how we can help them and try and see what we can do for them but we'll put an official program out that everybody's putting special assessments together can say hey we've got this much money when I go out so they'll know ahead of time going in to how much help we'll be getting so so that's something we want to get to that point because we feel that's the point that we want to get the help with the momentum of their seat is what they need to know up front what they're going to be getting so the only way to avoid an SAD is that if it's a safety traffic issue at this point or they're always going to be homeowner participation and fixing the roads in front there's always gonna be as far as long until they unless they change the funding structure of how we get money if you know right now we don't receive any you know property taxes so if unless they change the way that goes or where money comes from no special assessments will still be done and and even even at the city level so they still have to special assess to in places even as cities where they have road villages so and to get money from public at 51 so yeah yeah but you're talking about say that the number is 46 billion or 45 is what's kind of that number that could be coming a year from now and you guys start to think about like half of that money would go for this SAD program or you've started to have some ballpark ideas of how that would 45 would be distributed we haven't had any serious conversations because the money's not there right now I mean it's not going to be no you're I mean a big chunk of that's going to these other areas too I mean subdivisions would probably you know see you're looking at a couple million in that area depending how many SADs you have every year you have a different number of SADs go in different sizes so it could be one year we could put hardly any in and next year we could put five or six you know because there's a whole bunch of them so it just it depends on the number of sads the cost of those sads and then how much money we get which we don't know any of those variables right now does that make sense you know we can come back okay what what i got no where it doesn't make sense is that we had our representative in here who said that who worked on getting the passage of the bill and i think the bill even had the name if i understand it local roads or local road and then you on your one slide you

  28. cities where they have road villages so and to get money from public at 51 so yeah yeah but you're talking about say that the number is 46 billion or 45 is what's kind of that number that could be coming a year from now and you guys start to think about like half of that money would go for this SAD program or you've started to have some ballpark ideas of how that would 45 would be distributed we haven't had any serious conversations because the money's not there right now I mean it's not going to be no you're I mean a big chunk of that's going to these other areas too I mean subdivisions would probably you know see you're looking at a couple million in that area depending how many SADs you have every year you have a different number of SADs go in different sizes so it could be one year we could put hardly any in and next year we could put five or six you know because there's a whole bunch of them so it just it depends on the number of sads the cost of those sads and then how much money we get which we don't know any of those variables right now does that make sense you know we can come back okay what what i got no where it doesn't make sense is that we had our representative in here who said that who worked on getting the passage of the bill and i think the bill even had the name if i understand it local roads or local road and then you on your one slide you said there was no one which were no restrictions so we were told in august or september that this was going to be the local road initiative so we had anticipation of that kind of funding it was going to be earmarked for local roads yeah and here's what we're hearing from you today that's not the case right and that's because the legislation got changed or you have more flexibility in what you do plus if if marijuana goes tap city there's no money it's a big issue it'll be a big issue and making lake and laws legislation is as as i can tell you it's it's this law gets passed that after three all-nighters at four in the morning most of these people have been i mean no offense to the legislators but it's ten thousand pages and they're not going to read that as everything changes and they did they know that we weren't we were going to lose money for a while this year every one of our came to us and said you're gonna get a whole bunch of money stuck knocked over where is it okay so they they they don't always know everything that's every letter of the law everything that's in there they're told higher level things and some of it in the process of developing and doing horse trading in the process they some things get lost and at this point like I said that at the end of the day

  29. had the name if i understand it local roads or local road and then you on your one slide you said there was no one which were no restrictions so we were told in august or september that this was going to be the local road initiative so we had anticipation of that kind of funding it was going to be earmarked for local roads yeah and here's what we're hearing from you today that's not the case right and that's because the legislation got changed or you have more flexibility in what you do plus if if marijuana goes tap city there's no money it's a big issue it'll be a big issue and making lake and laws legislation is as as i can tell you it's it's this law gets passed that after three all-nighters at four in the morning most of these people have been i mean no offense to the legislators but it's ten thousand pages and they're not going to read that as everything changes and they did they know that we weren't we were going to lose money for a while this year every one of our came to us and said you're gonna get a whole bunch of money stuck knocked over where is it okay so they they they don't always know everything that's every letter of the law everything that's in there they're told higher level things and some of it in the process of developing and doing horse trading in the process they some things get lost and at this point like I said that at the end of the day it's the the funds name is going to be a is a problem because people think that's what it's for you talked about some specific things in that law where it was going to be you know something for culverts and 100 million here but when you get down to the rest of the funds what I'm trying to understand and be able to explain to people is that was why isn't the rest of the money out of the 46 million increase that you're going to get over your normal funding through the A51 why is the Road Commission saying well we're not obligated to honor that intent that's where I don't know how to explain that because I understand he had a couple haircuts getting down to the net number available but at that point philosophically wouldn't be the commitment to put those to local roads or pictures towards what are you where's the money going because that's the philosophy well philosophically we have to make that decision right any company has to make decision where's the best place to spend that money where do we get the most bang for a buck where's gonna be the most safety impact we're gonna get what's going to affect the most number of people out there so we have we have to take all those considerations when we're looking at something no offense to subdivisions but

  30. some things get lost and at this point like I said that at the end of the day it's the the funds name is going to be a is a problem because people think that's what it's for you talked about some specific things in that law where it was going to be you know something for culverts and 100 million here but when you get down to the rest of the funds what I'm trying to understand and be able to explain to people is that was why isn't the rest of the money out of the 46 million increase that you're going to get over your normal funding through the A51 why is the Road Commission saying well we're not obligated to honor that intent that's where I don't know how to explain that because I understand he had a couple haircuts getting down to the net number available but at that point philosophically wouldn't be the commitment to put those to local roads or pictures towards what are you where's the money going because that's the philosophy well philosophically we have to make that decision right any company has to make decision where's the best place to spend that money where do we get the most bang for a buck where's gonna be the most safety impact we're gonna get what's going to affect the most number of people out there so we have we have to take all those considerations when we're looking at something no offense to subdivisions but and despite it's very personal a lot of people we don't have a lot of injuries and actions and subdivisions okay I do on my primaries and major roads and intersections and that's where we should spend our money to be safe out there so so so you view this legislation your budgets like 229 million approximately annually before this extra money okay so then you get the extra money but because you have other needs in these other areas it's the position of the Road Commission as we stand today but even though the attempt was to go to local roads you have these other needs that you consider a higher priority there's no obligation I don't know what I don't know what the intent was okay what they were trying to do was improve road funding across all these areas and that's what we're doing there I don't know what the intent was their intent to how much was supposed to go anywhere there was never that was this ever discussed they just said they were raising more money and all these areas should get better which is what's going to happen we get more money in the subdivisions we'll get more money in our primary roads more money in the safety improvements everything is going to get better because they were all in a deficit wrote the local roads and they was with the only thing that we're having problems so that money's got to go across to fix all of our issues that we have out there not just the

  31. and despite it's very personal a lot of people we don't have a lot of injuries and actions and subdivisions okay I do on my primaries and major roads and intersections and that's where we should spend our money to be safe out there so so so you view this legislation your budgets like 229 million approximately annually before this extra money okay so then you get the extra money but because you have other needs in these other areas it's the position of the Road Commission as we stand today but even though the attempt was to go to local roads you have these other needs that you consider a higher priority there's no obligation I don't know what I don't know what the intent was okay what they were trying to do was improve road funding across all these areas and that's what we're doing there I don't know what the intent was their intent to how much was supposed to go anywhere there was never that was this ever discussed they just said they were raising more money and all these areas should get better which is what's going to happen we get more money in the subdivisions we'll get more money in our primary roads more money in the safety improvements everything is going to get better because they were all in a deficit wrote the local roads and they was with the only thing that we're having problems so that money's got to go across to fix all of our issues that we have out there not just the neighborhood the neighborhoods are going to get better and they're going to see more money you know we could always debate how much money they and we're all could be in that if you're if your sole purpose is to raise money for the subdivision Street you're going to push for that if your sole money is to save fatality lives out on primary intersections you're going to say all of our money should go there so we have to we have to divvy that up and make a make a determination that makes it best for the public it's the most bang for the buck at the end of the day across the board not to be awkward but the name of the bill was neighborhood road funding and so i think that is a signal as to the intent and now we can talk politics maybe it was a show game but um when it says neighborhood road funding we think um a lot of money is going to be dedicated to the neighborhood roads and you're telling us not a dime is dedicated to the neighborhood roads not a dime is required to be dedicated that's what i'm saying we will be giving money to the local roads okay i understand but um it didn't say local grading uh it didn't say intersections it didn't say culverts it didn't say bridges in the name of the the legislation so um i'm not looking to you but um you can see the

  32. across to fix all of our issues that we have out there not just the neighborhood the neighborhoods are going to get better and they're going to see more money you know we could always debate how much money they and we're all could be in that if you're if your sole purpose is to raise money for the subdivision Street you're going to push for that if your sole money is to save fatality lives out on primary intersections you're going to say all of our money should go there so we have to we have to divvy that up and make a make a determination that makes it best for the public it's the most bang for the buck at the end of the day across the board not to be awkward but the name of the bill was neighborhood road funding and so i think that is a signal as to the intent and now we can talk politics maybe it was a show game but um when it says neighborhood road funding we think um a lot of money is going to be dedicated to the neighborhood roads and you're telling us not a dime is dedicated to the neighborhood roads not a dime is required to be dedicated that's what i'm saying we will be giving money to the local roads okay i understand but um it didn't say local grading uh it didn't say intersections it didn't say culverts it didn't say bridges in the name of the the legislation so um i'm not looking to you but um you can see the disappointment in the public when it says neighborhood road funding and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't end it up we're not better off i would never name it that if you asked me that there's a very poor name for it okay but it's not the name doesn't you know they name these things for crazy things they come up with crazy acronyms they come up with stuff i bet The name of it versus what comes out of it's not, I can't do anything about it. I want to make it clear, this isn't personal to you, or the road commission, but- But it is. You can see the, I hope you can see the disappointment. Yeah, I certainly do, and that's what we can take into account when we're deciding where this money goes. But I think the disconnect here is not the fault of the road commission. I think it's the legislature that essentially put an inappropriate name on a piece of legislation that was misleading, that now as you drill down into it, I'm just trying to say, I don't believe, Gary, I'm not trying to protect you or anything, but I don't believe the road commission decided how to take this pot of money and say, well, we can just move it all over here.

  33. say bridges in the name of the the legislation so um i'm not looking to you but um you can see the disappointment in the public when it says neighborhood road funding and it doesn't it doesn't it doesn't end it up we're not better off i would never name it that if you asked me that there's a very poor name for it okay but it's not the name doesn't you know they name these things for crazy things they come up with crazy acronyms they come up with stuff i bet The name of it versus what comes out of it's not, I can't do anything about it. I want to make it clear, this isn't personal to you, or the road commission, but- But it is. You can see the, I hope you can see the disappointment. Yeah, I certainly do, and that's what we can take into account when we're deciding where this money goes. But I think the disconnect here is not the fault of the road commission. I think it's the legislature that essentially put an inappropriate name on a piece of legislation that was misleading, that now as you drill down into it, I'm just trying to say, I don't believe, Gary, I'm not trying to protect you or anything, but I don't believe the road commission decided how to take this pot of money and say, well, we can just move it all over here. It's basically the way the law was developed by the legislature. Well, the law didn't give any protection to do what we thought it would do, which was the local roads. Right. So from there, going forward, we haven't changed anything we've done over the last 45 years. Right. Because they've always had the discretion to either not fund something or fund something. And no one here can make that decision, obviously, but that's the level of disappointment. But the one difference is there's an additional $45 million. That's right. Yeah, that we may not have never seen. That's right, but the road commission budget now will get it. 45 million may ask a question sorry for jumping in so could you give us some advice and counsel then since you're here and you're presenting to us how do we make our voices heard to help inform you to inform the process to prioritize the people you see in front of you with the challenges we have with the people we represent who are very frustrated about the SAT history about the SAT currency about the future and about everything you're also aware of so what what could we say into whom do we say it to make it clear what our priorities

  34. but I don't believe the road commission decided how to take this pot of money and say, well, we can just move it all over here. It's basically the way the law was developed by the legislature. Well, the law didn't give any protection to do what we thought it would do, which was the local roads. Right. So from there, going forward, we haven't changed anything we've done over the last 45 years. Right. Because they've always had the discretion to either not fund something or fund something. And no one here can make that decision, obviously, but that's the level of disappointment. But the one difference is there's an additional $45 million. That's right. Yeah, that we may not have never seen. That's right, but the road commission budget now will get it. 45 million may ask a question sorry for jumping in so could you give us some advice and counsel then since you're here and you're presenting to us how do we make our voices heard to help inform you to inform the process to prioritize the people you see in front of you with the challenges we have with the people we represent who are very frustrated about the SAT history about the SAT currency about the future and about everything you're also aware of so what what could we say into whom do we say it to make it clear what our priorities are well first of all you do legislators they're ones who write the laws and in oversee this entire process but to help you at RCOC again getting them they give us the the tools to do what we need to do they have to write that into the laws on a time-sensitive basis though right now how do we help you in the immediate term not the longer term to be our voice with people or with whom should we be conversing to make sure it's clear what our objectives are and that would be people like me okay in the end your township supervisors and townships the city managers all them together they get together we speak with them we meet with them and in those conversations and let you know where their priorities of their citizens are even when we do just exactly the overlays on the primary roads we don't do that in the vacuum Mike's given his staff has given us recommendations for things that we listen to the locals say hey I'm going to do four miles in your community this year if you got a priority based on your system where you hear from your citizens then we want we want to know that we hear stuff too we get who are we get you know 40,000 contacts a year from the citizens so when we hear from them we prioritize we put those on our list as well so in front of you you have all of us we represent a lot of the township

  35. what could we say into whom do we say it to make it clear what our priorities are well first of all you do legislators they're ones who write the laws and in oversee this entire process but to help you at RCOC again getting them they give us the the tools to do what we need to do they have to write that into the laws on a time-sensitive basis though right now how do we help you in the immediate term not the longer term to be our voice with people or with whom should we be conversing to make sure it's clear what our objectives are and that would be people like me okay in the end your township supervisors and townships the city managers all them together they get together we speak with them we meet with them and in those conversations and let you know where their priorities of their citizens are even when we do just exactly the overlays on the primary roads we don't do that in the vacuum Mike's given his staff has given us recommendations for things that we listen to the locals say hey I'm going to do four miles in your community this year if you got a priority based on your system where you hear from your citizens then we want we want to know that we hear stuff too we get who are we get you know 40,000 contacts a year from the citizens so when we hear from them we prioritize we put those on our list as well so in front of you you have all of us we represent a lot of the township so we cannot speak for everyone individually but we are a voice of a lot of people so I'm just trying to help facilitate getting to a solution to share information to help and this and this is helpful this interaction the partnership that we have dealing with staff level on a daily basis you know work through your the township supervisor is a great place because it provides one voice out of him to us because otherwise you're gonna come with one somebody else is gonna come with a different priority and stuff if it comes from the supervisor comes with one voice and one priority you've been he's been given a direction to talk to us that's the best way to do it and we work through that way and it works works real well we partner up and do a lot of things together I want to go a little bit different direction here we keep what we're focusing which we should be doing on funding how to pay for it but one of the in our mission statement one of the things that's in there is also an item about autonomy of the roads and the gentleman who mr. Goldstein brought one subject up we didn't even talk to talk about it he said about putting signs of no encroaching meaning no right turn certain times or whatever how do we work with the Road Commission to loosen some of those rules

  36. well so in front of you you have all of us we represent a lot of the township so we cannot speak for everyone individually but we are a voice of a lot of people so I'm just trying to help facilitate getting to a solution to share information to help and this and this is helpful this interaction the partnership that we have dealing with staff level on a daily basis you know work through your the township supervisor is a great place because it provides one voice out of him to us because otherwise you're gonna come with one somebody else is gonna come with a different priority and stuff if it comes from the supervisor comes with one voice and one priority you've been he's been given a direction to talk to us that's the best way to do it and we work through that way and it works works real well we partner up and do a lot of things together I want to go a little bit different direction here we keep what we're focusing which we should be doing on funding how to pay for it but one of the in our mission statement one of the things that's in there is also an item about autonomy of the roads and the gentleman who mr. Goldstein brought one subject up we didn't even talk to talk about it he said about putting signs of no encroaching meaning no right turn certain times or whatever how do we work with the Road Commission to loosen some of those rules up so that we could somehow do something like no through traffic no turned no turning uncertain at certain times to help control that how do we work with you to kind of to get that done together to loosen some of those rules well there's two parts to that first of all again anybody we have a number of ways to contact the road commission whether it's a number of websites um in different ways you everybody that's all out on our website you go out there it's easy to find you contact us when they do we have those conversations with those people when you use the term lucid implies that you're doing something incorrectly okay we want to we have a process at a place and that follows rules for good reasons we don't develop these just to be a negative nanny or to do so we just don't can say no we do it because we've had effectiveness improving this is a right way and wrong way to do things we want to make sure we're consistent and being consistent when we have one neighborhood ask a question versus another neighbor ask a question we can have consistency in our responses and we know that from a traffic engineering perspective it's the right way to do it there's no reason to spend money and no waiting to do things if it's not going to help or make things worse just because somebody wants something that doesn't make it right and mostly people that

  37. up so that we could somehow do something like no through traffic no turned no turning uncertain at certain times to help control that how do we work with you to kind of to get that done together to loosen some of those rules well there's two parts to that first of all again anybody we have a number of ways to contact the road commission whether it's a number of websites um in different ways you everybody that's all out on our website you go out there it's easy to find you contact us when they do we have those conversations with those people when you use the term lucid implies that you're doing something incorrectly okay we want to we have a process at a place and that follows rules for good reasons we don't develop these just to be a negative nanny or to do so we just don't can say no we do it because we've had effectiveness improving this is a right way and wrong way to do things we want to make sure we're consistent and being consistent when we have one neighborhood ask a question versus another neighbor ask a question we can have consistency in our responses and we know that from a traffic engineering perspective it's the right way to do it there's no reason to spend money and no waiting to do things if it's not going to help or make things worse just because somebody wants something that doesn't make it right and mostly people that suggest these things are not traffic engineers they're not but it has access to the data and information that a road commission that a road commission has it may not be logical to them as a non-engineer as a non-engineer but it is you right thing to do and there's a reason why we got to that point in time and it's been a lot of experience over many years and decades of doing that and on top of it we have to remember there's a we have to also follow a lot of we're the ones that are liable at the end of the day not that person making the request okay so when something goes wrong as a result of that we're the ones that are liable not that person so we have to think of that as well to change not loosen change them just as an example in Birmingham you drive down south on Adams Road every street one after the other you can't make a left turn in off of Adams Road into into the residential street all the way till you get down to Bowers I think okay but we couldn't but if we wanted to do something like that in the Township if it's my understanding that we wouldn't be able to put those signs up because the Road Commission says no we don't want that everybody should be able to use those rope or do it so how can we change the rules and work with you to do it so that maybe we could do some of that we

  38. things worse just because somebody wants something that doesn't make it right and mostly people that suggest these things are not traffic engineers they're not but it has access to the data and information that a road commission that a road commission has it may not be logical to them as a non-engineer as a non-engineer but it is you right thing to do and there's a reason why we got to that point in time and it's been a lot of experience over many years and decades of doing that and on top of it we have to remember there's a we have to also follow a lot of we're the ones that are liable at the end of the day not that person making the request okay so when something goes wrong as a result of that we're the ones that are liable not that person so we have to think of that as well to change not loosen change them just as an example in Birmingham you drive down south on Adams Road every street one after the other you can't make a left turn in off of Adams Road into into the residential street all the way till you get down to Bowers I think okay but we couldn't but if we wanted to do something like that in the Township if it's my understanding that we wouldn't be able to put those signs up because the Road Commission says no we don't want that everybody should be able to use those rope or do it so how can we change the rules and work with you to do it so that maybe we could do some of that we think working with staff bring it through bring it up through supervisor and when we can work through those items okay there's a specific work together to do it absolutely we work all the time on all these elements here they're not nothing's in stone stone tablets here we things modify and they change over time and we address things as they go but we just don't change things because somebody wants them change there has to be a reason to change them there has to be data there has to be something that supports it more than just somebody's feeling well you know some subdivisions they have cut through traffic they go from main road and they go through another example in the township Maple Lane comes off Maple Road just west of the losser okay it's a dirt road cuts around by the Oakland Hills country behind it okay so anyway you this it says no through traffic certain times now I'm not sure how that got there but that's done because the subdivision didn't want cut through traffic well there's a lot of cut through traffic in a lot of subdivisions and it's documented by traffic signs that have that that collect data we have them in ours they collect that and the numbers are tremendous they really are for a

  39. the rules and work with you to do it so that maybe we could do some of that we think working with staff bring it through bring it up through supervisor and when we can work through those items okay there's a specific work together to do it absolutely we work all the time on all these elements here they're not nothing's in stone stone tablets here we things modify and they change over time and we address things as they go but we just don't change things because somebody wants them change there has to be a reason to change them there has to be data there has to be something that supports it more than just somebody's feeling well you know some subdivisions they have cut through traffic they go from main road and they go through another example in the township Maple Lane comes off Maple Road just west of the losser okay it's a dirt road cuts around by the Oakland Hills country behind it okay so anyway you this it says no through traffic certain times now I'm not sure how that got there but that's done because the subdivision didn't want cut through traffic well there's a lot of cut through traffic in a lot of subdivisions and it's documented by traffic signs that have that that collect data we have them in ours they collect that and the numbers are tremendous they really are for a subdivision street and I have that data so but the point is we want to work together not adversarially but together to see we can't change something so that maybe we can put no through traffic certain hours through a subdivision that's my point that's what I'm asking can we do that absolutely and there's no different and we've been doing that all along and that we've worked on but you know every every sites its own issue has its own place you can't you know we did we do something here it doesn't mean it fits another place but each individual is once brought to us we have whole files of cut through okay cut through traffic roads and we don't just about them all in the county there's this they probably all have a file on each one it's good to know that we will be able to do that yes together with our police, with our, and look at some of these areas where people are complaining. And we have the data to show, yeah, there's no way that 10,000 cars a week can go down that street. Not enough people live here to do that, and we have the data for that in some subdivisions. Well, and again, that is a critical part of this. Also have to remember, too, that many of these instances, they're public roads, okay? So everybody has a right to use that road, okay? Whether it's a primary, a subdivision, it's a public road, anybody can use that road, okay?

  40. ours they collect that and the numbers are tremendous they really are for a subdivision street and I have that data so but the point is we want to work together not adversarially but together to see we can't change something so that maybe we can put no through traffic certain hours through a subdivision that's my point that's what I'm asking can we do that absolutely and there's no different and we've been doing that all along and that we've worked on but you know every every sites its own issue has its own place you can't you know we did we do something here it doesn't mean it fits another place but each individual is once brought to us we have whole files of cut through okay cut through traffic roads and we don't just about them all in the county there's this they probably all have a file on each one it's good to know that we will be able to do that yes together with our police, with our, and look at some of these areas where people are complaining. And we have the data to show, yeah, there's no way that 10,000 cars a week can go down that street. Not enough people live here to do that, and we have the data for that in some subdivisions. Well, and again, that is a critical part of this. Also have to remember, too, that many of these instances, they're public roads, okay? So everybody has a right to use that road, okay? Whether it's a primary, a subdivision, it's a public road, anybody can use that road, okay? Now, does it create problems when other people from that neighborhood are using it? In certain instances, certainly, but we all have visitors that come to our neighborhood all the time, right? I mean, we're not the only ones using our subdivision streets. We have buses that use them, we have delivery trucks, and FedEx, and everybody else using these subdivision streets. There's other people using streets. Now, in many instances, if we're going to put, like, no turnaround rides up or other things like this certain times of day, we have to have agreement for the sub. Significant portion. We usually use three quarters, okay? Because that restricts it for everybody. It's not just the neighborhood folks. That's for everybody, because you can't write. You can't write just for neighborhood, because then it's no longer a public road, okay? So, many times, when it gets down to the end, these subdivisions decide not to do it, okay? We've worked with them, we go through them, we go through the process, we're on board to put that sign up, and they're like, we don't want it. And that happens way more. than you think. I mean, probably 90% of the time, people end up at the end of the day, they're like, you know what, I'd rather have my freedom and be able to turn right at any time than whatever benefit that it's going to produce on the other end. They have to make that decision within each individual street and subdivision. As long as the answer is we can work together.

  41. Whether it's a primary, a subdivision, it's a public road, anybody can use that road, okay? Now, does it create problems when other people from that neighborhood are using it? In certain instances, certainly, but we all have visitors that come to our neighborhood all the time, right? I mean, we're not the only ones using our subdivision streets. We have buses that use them, we have delivery trucks, and FedEx, and everybody else using these subdivision streets. There's other people using streets. Now, in many instances, if we're going to put, like, no turnaround rides up or other things like this certain times of day, we have to have agreement for the sub. Significant portion. We usually use three quarters, okay? Because that restricts it for everybody. It's not just the neighborhood folks. That's for everybody, because you can't write. You can't write just for neighborhood, because then it's no longer a public road, okay? So, many times, when it gets down to the end, these subdivisions decide not to do it, okay? We've worked with them, we go through them, we go through the process, we're on board to put that sign up, and they're like, we don't want it. And that happens way more. than you think. I mean, probably 90% of the time, people end up at the end of the day, they're like, you know what, I'd rather have my freedom and be able to turn right at any time than whatever benefit that it's going to produce on the other end. They have to make that decision within each individual street and subdivision. As long as the answer is we can work together. Absolutely. So I would like, okay, maybe we can have a conversation, you and I, on perhaps sort of Mr. McCready about this. Okay, very much. Moving on. So what you would like us to do as individuals is work with, so as an example, I won't get into it because of time, but you know, the sad consternation in the village, there is a cut through street, you know what it is, it's cramped across, and there are children that have almost been struck there already with the new paving. God forbid, I'm just saying this for both of you to hear this, if something happens with a child on that through street or another person, an older adult, me, it's going to be a huge issue, Gary. And so they've asked for speed bumps or a stop sign or something because it goes from Lasser all the way through to Cranbrook and it cuts off the intersection, which is generically probably what Jeff's talking about. I'm talking about the village and the paving. It's why you both heard people weren't complaining about that road being repaved because it slowed people down. So just know this, if we should have people sign a petition, I don't know, but it is a significant concern. Just putting it on the record, okay?

  42. within each individual street and subdivision. As long as the answer is we can work together. Absolutely. So I would like, okay, maybe we can have a conversation, you and I, on perhaps sort of Mr. McCready about this. Okay, very much. Moving on. So what you would like us to do as individuals is work with, so as an example, I won't get into it because of time, but you know, the sad consternation in the village, there is a cut through street, you know what it is, it's cramped across, and there are children that have almost been struck there already with the new paving. God forbid, I'm just saying this for both of you to hear this, if something happens with a child on that through street or another person, an older adult, me, it's going to be a huge issue, Gary. And so they've asked for speed bumps or a stop sign or something because it goes from Lasser all the way through to Cranbrook and it cuts off the intersection, which is generically probably what Jeff's talking about. I'm talking about the village and the paving. It's why you both heard people weren't complaining about that road being repaved because it slowed people down. So just know this, if we should have people sign a petition, I don't know, but it is a significant concern. Just putting it on the record, okay? I think almost every subdivision in the township can look to that and say, traffic is cutting through. I mean, like that, and it's dangerous. Okay, anyway, as long as we know, I know, that was my answer to the question. You answered it, thank you. And if it's, what I'm saying, individually, if you've got an issue, call the number of staff who's going to respond and get back to everybody here, okay? Just if I don't want, if it's more of a township issue, I'd rather hear it, priorities coming from the township, I'd rather hear it coming through your supervisor. That's fine. So it's one voice in that area. Sure. But if you have an issue with your subdivision, you've got to call. Okay, absolutely, call the number, and staff will get somebody on that, so. Okay, sure. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. Gary, I'd like to, just one other question. I'd like to understand, like, when you start talking about using SADs for repaving or repairing roads and subdivisions, how is that contract process done? You know, and like, is the contracting of that work done through the road commission? What level of transparency is there to the people that end up having to pay the bill for the work being done? And how do people understand, like, what the bid process is or was, and what the breakdown of the cost is?

  43. I think almost every subdivision in the township can look to that and say, traffic is cutting through. I mean, like that, and it's dangerous. Okay, anyway, as long as we know, I know, that was my answer to the question. You answered it, thank you. And if it's, what I'm saying, individually, if you've got an issue, call the number of staff who's going to respond and get back to everybody here, okay? Just if I don't want, if it's more of a township issue, I'd rather hear it, priorities coming from the township, I'd rather hear it coming through your supervisor. That's fine. So it's one voice in that area. Sure. But if you have an issue with your subdivision, you've got to call. Okay, absolutely, call the number, and staff will get somebody on that, so. Okay, sure. Thank you. Thank you, Gary. Gary, I'd like to, just one other question. I'd like to understand, like, when you start talking about using SADs for repaving or repairing roads and subdivisions, how is that contract process done? You know, and like, is the contracting of that work done through the road commission? What level of transparency is there to the people that end up having to pay the bill for the work being done? And how do people understand, like, what the bid process is or was, and what the breakdown of the cost is? You know, if I put a roof on my house or I do a driveway, I get a bid and it breaks the price down. It comes down to, you know, this is so much gravel and this is so much asphalt, et cetera. You're not. Are you looking for security yourself? I'm just looking for security. And the there's going. That's a problem. what level of transparency is that for residents that end up having to pay the SAD back for being able to have access to that information all of our documentation is public information so our bids are public we put out public bid it goes out publicly it's open publicly it's it's approved by a public board and all that information related to that anybody can ask for at any point in time it can get that information to know what was in that bid how much was in that bid what the costs were probably every individual item of that bid well is all paperwork that can be requested okay I'm not sure that people know that certainly if it's happening in front of my house I certainly want to be able to understand it but you're saying that every single resident would have to then access or request that information individually well generally most people don't care about that the curb cost $35 okay they're no more concerned about their SAD costs so we're not gonna get that many people that ask I mean if the

  44. And how do people understand, like, what the bid process is or was, and what the breakdown of the cost is? You know, if I put a roof on my house or I do a driveway, I get a bid and it breaks the price down. It comes down to, you know, this is so much gravel and this is so much asphalt, et cetera. You're not. Are you looking for security yourself? I'm just looking for security. And the there's going. That's a problem. what level of transparency is that for residents that end up having to pay the SAD back for being able to have access to that information all of our documentation is public information so our bids are public we put out public bid it goes out publicly it's open publicly it's it's approved by a public board and all that information related to that anybody can ask for at any point in time it can get that information to know what was in that bid how much was in that bid what the costs were probably every individual item of that bid well is all paperwork that can be requested okay I'm not sure that people know that certainly if it's happening in front of my house I certainly want to be able to understand it but you're saying that every single resident would have to then access or request that information individually well generally most people don't care about that the curb cost $35 okay they're no more concerned about their SAD costs so we're not gonna get that many people that ask I mean if the whole neighborhood wanted to know we could easily get it to move to a village we've been working with their leadership we could get they've got the bids by themselves you probably just talked to him everybody's got them everybody has that paperwork around it's all available it could easily be emailed or whatever but what level of transparency do the people have where the road is being done prior to the actual contract being issued I say that again well I'm gonna use my street as my street which is not under contract contract and not under an SAD, but I've got 120-some feet or 130 feet of road in front of my house. And if that road's going to be repaved, I'm going to get a bill for my 50% of that road. In normal situations where I'm paying for something, I'm speaking again hypothetically for any resident of the township, I see what the costs are and I see what the structure is before the money is spent and before the contract is issued, not after. That's correct. Yeah, it actually takes about a year through the special assessment project to process to go through all that because there's multiple meetings that are, there's initial meetings to allow, here's all the costs, this is what it costs everybody to do this, they have to

  45. their SAD costs so we're not gonna get that many people that ask I mean if the whole neighborhood wanted to know we could easily get it to move to a village we've been working with their leadership we could get they've got the bids by themselves you probably just talked to him everybody's got them everybody has that paperwork around it's all available it could easily be emailed or whatever but what level of transparency do the people have where the road is being done prior to the actual contract being issued I say that again well I'm gonna use my street as my street which is not under contract contract and not under an SAD, but I've got 120-some feet or 130 feet of road in front of my house. And if that road's going to be repaved, I'm going to get a bill for my 50% of that road. In normal situations where I'm paying for something, I'm speaking again hypothetically for any resident of the township, I see what the costs are and I see what the structure is before the money is spent and before the contract is issued, not after. That's correct. Yeah, it actually takes about a year through the special assessment project to process to go through all that because there's multiple meetings that are, there's initial meetings to allow, here's all the costs, this is what it costs everybody to do this, they have to go out and get petitions from there, petitions are brought back, the bids go out, the bids are publicly opened, you have multiple chances in there to say, hey, we don't want this anymore and they can stop the process even though the petition started it. So there's multiple steps in the SAD process to, that everybody's, the whole neighborhood's aware of all the steps and they're getting, they get information on every step of the way they get information, hey, there's a meeting, the next meeting is here and this is what it's for. The next meeting's here and this is what it's for. It's probably four to five to six meetings depending on before that ever becomes a real project. Was that your experience in here? No, but Gary knows that. Okay. It was very murky, but everyone here knows that. We have three minutes. I'm so busy four weeks. Anyway, I've got any kind of work. So I don't think we want to take the group's time to talk about the history of Bloomfield Village with bidding and the process. We'll just leave it at that for now. I do have a question on writing up the specifications. I assume that the commission is responsible for creating the specification for road replacement. But do they get into the, like, if you have concrete already, is it cost effective just to put, you know, a different surface on top of it or those sorts of things?

  46. to allow, here's all the costs, this is what it costs everybody to do this, they have to go out and get petitions from there, petitions are brought back, the bids go out, the bids are publicly opened, you have multiple chances in there to say, hey, we don't want this anymore and they can stop the process even though the petition started it. So there's multiple steps in the SAD process to, that everybody's, the whole neighborhood's aware of all the steps and they're getting, they get information on every step of the way they get information, hey, there's a meeting, the next meeting is here and this is what it's for. The next meeting's here and this is what it's for. It's probably four to five to six meetings depending on before that ever becomes a real project. Was that your experience in here? No, but Gary knows that. Okay. It was very murky, but everyone here knows that. We have three minutes. I'm so busy four weeks. Anyway, I've got any kind of work. So I don't think we want to take the group's time to talk about the history of Bloomfield Village with bidding and the process. We'll just leave it at that for now. I do have a question on writing up the specifications. I assume that the commission is responsible for creating the specification for road replacement. But do they get into the, like, if you have concrete already, is it cost effective just to put, you know, a different surface on top of it or those sorts of things? Do you make those sorts of decisions so that you can address a greater lineage number of linear feet of roads in a certain subdivision where if you just put, you know, and asphalt, you know, I don't know the technology of asphalt. I'm sure it improves over time that people, you know, put different avenues and whatever it is. But do you get into that sort of thing when you're, when you're spec, you're specing out a, you know, a potential job or something? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you're open to look at different alternatives to just replacing the concrete? Yeah. Every road is looked at on its own basis, you know, because there's a whole lot of elements to that road. How the age of the road, what's underneath the road, how the road drains, the character of that road. We do whole soils, borings and stuff ahead of time to find out what's in that road. What's. been doing and and then the design is based on that information so if we wanted to put an s to redo our roads we could sit down with you and say well if it's if it's $20 a yard for this it's eight dollars a yard for this if we did

  47. But do they get into the, like, if you have concrete already, is it cost effective just to put, you know, a different surface on top of it or those sorts of things? Do you make those sorts of decisions so that you can address a greater lineage number of linear feet of roads in a certain subdivision where if you just put, you know, and asphalt, you know, I don't know the technology of asphalt. I'm sure it improves over time that people, you know, put different avenues and whatever it is. But do you get into that sort of thing when you're, when you're spec, you're specing out a, you know, a potential job or something? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So you're open to look at different alternatives to just replacing the concrete? Yeah. Every road is looked at on its own basis, you know, because there's a whole lot of elements to that road. How the age of the road, what's underneath the road, how the road drains, the character of that road. We do whole soils, borings and stuff ahead of time to find out what's in that road. What's. been doing and and then the design is based on that information so if we wanted to put an s to redo our roads we could sit down with you and say well if it's if it's $20 a yard for this it's eight dollars a yard for this if we did with Asheville you know and we could talk through so that maybe we can reduce the cost there is a but you you run into some unusual things there because we warranty these special assessment districts okay so we're gonna require a circle that's why it has to come from you obviously just to let you know we we're not looking for a blue light special but we're looking for something that's maybe a Costco's or something and and there are places that we're working on and one our first our first one likely we'll hopefully go up and another township where they're willing to give up to the the warranty and to put a less road fixin okay but that's that's their call to put they're gonna spend less on a road that won't last as long and they'll have the warranty but that's a choice they have to make yeah so dr. sirian we offered to do that in Bloomfield Village and the answer was no that's why our road is well we'll have to revisit it you will have to revisit it for sure anyway but that's it makes sense to me and who has another question I'm sorry for because of the time but if if if we want to if a subdivision or the township wants to restrict what size of vehicles would have access to

  48. it's if it's $20 a yard for this it's eight dollars a yard for this if we did with Asheville you know and we could talk through so that maybe we can reduce the cost there is a but you you run into some unusual things there because we warranty these special assessment districts okay so we're gonna require a circle that's why it has to come from you obviously just to let you know we we're not looking for a blue light special but we're looking for something that's maybe a Costco's or something and and there are places that we're working on and one our first our first one likely we'll hopefully go up and another township where they're willing to give up to the the warranty and to put a less road fixin okay but that's that's their call to put they're gonna spend less on a road that won't last as long and they'll have the warranty but that's a choice they have to make yeah so dr. sirian we offered to do that in Bloomfield Village and the answer was no that's why our road is well we'll have to revisit it you will have to revisit it for sure anyway but that's it makes sense to me and who has another question I'm sorry for because of the time but if if if we want to if a subdivision or the township wants to restrict what size of vehicles would have access to residential road is that does that authority fall under the road commission or does it fall under the township or the county it's a road commission to road commission yes okay there's proposed legislation Michigan home program are you familiar with that and has there been discussion about that it would essentially take away local control zoning control for homes or housing and it establishes a much smaller minimum for each home each lot and so in part of that is that there would the state controls things and there's a requirement for only one garage or one place for a vehicle per lot these are quick very small lots and so then if there's more than one driver more than one vehicle in that home then multiple vehicles are going to be parking on the streets and so I just wondered has there been discussion about the possible

  49. residential road is that does that authority fall under the road commission or does it fall under the township or the county it's a road commission to road commission yes okay there's proposed legislation Michigan home program are you familiar with that and has there been discussion about that it would essentially take away local control zoning control for homes or housing and it establishes a much smaller minimum for each home each lot and so in part of that is that there would the state controls things and there's a requirement for only one garage or one place for a vehicle per lot these are quick very small lots and so then if there's more than one driver more than one vehicle in that home then multiple vehicles are going to be parking on the streets and so I just wondered has there been discussion about the possible impact of putting all kinds of parking on residential streets I mean in my neighborhood I'm not saying they're narrow but there's there's not you know two cars can pass but there's not a lot there's not there's no shoulder there's no other place to go and so if there's a vehicle parked on the street there's a lot of you know chicanery to get to get through that and if there's a ton of cars parked on the road have you thought about that and the consequences to our roads I'm not familiar with that legislation so I don't I can't speak to what much about it other than the fact that all the planning decisions are made at the local level not the road so the housing and all that proposal that wasn't something that people were seriously well this fall was it was reintroduced in February and I don't know where that is going now but it's basically to preempt local zoning yeah yes that's the philosophy I that's a I just wondered if you had landed on your desk and if so you know if you if you taking a look at that is that is that come across right now as a priority right

  50. streets and so I just wondered has there been discussion about the possible impact of putting all kinds of parking on residential streets I mean in my neighborhood I'm not saying they're narrow but there's there's not you know two cars can pass but there's not a lot there's not there's no shoulder there's no other place to go and so if there's a vehicle parked on the street there's a lot of you know chicanery to get to get through that and if there's a ton of cars parked on the road have you thought about that and the consequences to our roads I'm not familiar with that legislation so I don't I can't speak to what much about it other than the fact that all the planning decisions are made at the local level not the road so the housing and all that proposal that wasn't something that people were seriously well this fall was it was reintroduced in February and I don't know where that is going now but it's basically to preempt local zoning yeah yes that's the philosophy I that's a I just wondered if you had landed on your desk and if so you know if you if you taking a look at that is that is that come across right now as a priority right now but again drive because it's in the planning stages it's more for planning people we don't deal with the planning local level planning so thank you all right thanks so much thanks Gary thank you thank you that was really informative thank I think maybe we'd come back to this another day this has been a great conversation unless you want to talk about any of his comments that he made or anything? I think we found out we have no money. It's like talking to your father and saying, I want to go to college and he'd say, here, write me a... He gives you money for a postcard and say, write me when you get there. We don't have any difference in our funding now than we did before we started all of this. It's really frustrating. A lot of those decisions were made in the legislature at 3 or 4 in the morning and we had received some money to build a new fire station and it was mislabeled for a fire station but for police equipment and vehicles. So now they're suspending paying us the money because it wasn't given to us for what we applied

  51. taking a look at that is that is that come across right now as a priority right now but again drive because it's in the planning stages it's more for planning people we don't deal with the planning local level planning so thank you all right thanks so much thanks Gary thank you thank you that was really informative thank I think maybe we'd come back to this another day this has been a great conversation unless you want to talk about any of his comments that he made or anything? I think we found out we have no money. It's like talking to your father and saying, I want to go to college and he'd say, here, write me a... He gives you money for a postcard and say, write me when you get there. We don't have any difference in our funding now than we did before we started all of this. It's really frustrating. A lot of those decisions were made in the legislature at 3 or 4 in the morning and we had received some money to build a new fire station and it was mislabeled for a fire station but for police equipment and vehicles. So now they're suspending paying us the money because it wasn't given to us for what we applied for. So now I'm trying to work with our legislators to try and get that money back. They say what we really meant was... So he said at 4 in the morning, the wording that you talked about for neighborhoods, these things happen. Right. I would like to make this point to the group. Forgetting the timing for a second. Their budget is going to increase by 25 percent. There are 227 million burned now. It's 46 million. So they're going to get 25 percent more. 45... His number's in his slide. 46 million more. And what we're hearing... that it doesn't end. None of it's earmarked for neighborly roads. Yes. That's my frustration. You get 25% more money and you say basically for a, and he used the figure, I think a million here, a million there for SADs. That's all we got for local roads. That doesn't track. Sorry. They have priorities of certain roads. They have a whole list of things. These new things need to be done on these major roads. We can only do this much. Now we get

  52. given to us for what we applied for. So now I'm trying to work with our legislators to try and get that money back. They say what we really meant was... So he said at 4 in the morning, the wording that you talked about for neighborhoods, these things happen. Right. I would like to make this point to the group. Forgetting the timing for a second. Their budget is going to increase by 25 percent. There are 227 million burned now. It's 46 million. So they're going to get 25 percent more. 45... His number's in his slide. 46 million more. And what we're hearing... that it doesn't end. None of it's earmarked for neighborly roads. Yes. That's my frustration. You get 25% more money and you say basically for a, and he used the figure, I think a million here, a million there for SADs. That's all we got for local roads. That doesn't track. Sorry. They have priorities of certain roads. They have a whole list of things. These new things need to be done on these major roads. We can only do this much. Now we get 40-something million. Now we can do these. But none of those are in some... I understand that. It's just, to me, it's just a lot of... I think the problem for us is the problem for us is... He's ridiculous. Okay. The problem here is that we're being charged with trying to figure out how to get more money for subdivisions and we're not. Well, we're not going to get... Because there's no obligation whatsoever. Because we can't do a millage. I mean, you just read my slides. We can, but politically, that's not going to happen. You're not going to be in office? You're not going to do a millage. You know, read the... The slides I made kind of just... I don't want to get into that. ...outline all these options that we have. It kind of goes through the... Kind of what's happened in the past and... I'll take the judgment, yeah. I... I'll tell you what... I guess... And then... We have one conversation, folks. One conversation, please. So that's... But anyway, you can look at these and comment on them. And I did have all the numbers checked by Mr. McCready's office. All right, so let's move on. So I think I'm as accurate as I can be. I guess. Yeah. meeting i have to go i apologize i'm sorry i have a hard stop too i apologize well we can still continue uh we have um three items left updates from phase two we can if you'd like if you want

  53. 40-something million. Now we can do these. But none of those are in some... I understand that. It's just, to me, it's just a lot of... I think the problem for us is the problem for us is... He's ridiculous. Okay. The problem here is that we're being charged with trying to figure out how to get more money for subdivisions and we're not. Well, we're not going to get... Because there's no obligation whatsoever. Because we can't do a millage. I mean, you just read my slides. We can, but politically, that's not going to happen. You're not going to be in office? You're not going to do a millage. You know, read the... The slides I made kind of just... I don't want to get into that. ...outline all these options that we have. It kind of goes through the... Kind of what's happened in the past and... I'll take the judgment, yeah. I... I'll tell you what... I guess... And then... We have one conversation, folks. One conversation, please. So that's... But anyway, you can look at these and comment on them. And I did have all the numbers checked by Mr. McCready's office. All right, so let's move on. So I think I'm as accurate as I can be. I guess. Yeah. meeting i have to go i apologize i'm sorry i have a hard stop too i apologize well we can still continue uh we have um three items left updates from phase two we can if you'd like if you want to we said we're going to meet until six o'clock no that's next meeting oh so then all right so then maybe we have to table these items just read it over and if you have comments you can shoot me or whatever you don't like or whatever that's right yeah and this for 30 seconds the other handouts you have that mike and i worked on is really trying to identify you can see at the top is there any sources of money at the town yeah consistent with what you were working on here and uh basically there are a couple ideas that we want to give everybody a status update that we're looking at is you know the safety path path millage and that expires and what we can do with that the uh the bond debt as it burns off to the capacity there and then maybe and then there's some heavily money that we might yeah so those are the three things and we want to come back to the next meeting it it is you would never come up with this headway wait a second so are we it should be adjourned and um push these back to the a future date well i guess we'll have to we can't discuss it today anymore we can handle all these i mean these are all these are like very

  54. continue uh we have um three items left updates from phase two we can if you'd like if you want to we said we're going to meet until six o'clock no that's next meeting oh so then all right so then maybe we have to table these items just read it over and if you have comments you can shoot me or whatever you don't like or whatever that's right yeah and this for 30 seconds the other handouts you have that mike and i worked on is really trying to identify you can see at the top is there any sources of money at the town yeah consistent with what you were working on here and uh basically there are a couple ideas that we want to give everybody a status update that we're looking at is you know the safety path path millage and that expires and what we can do with that the uh the bond debt as it burns off to the capacity there and then maybe and then there's some heavily money that we might yeah so those are the three things and we want to come back to the next meeting it it is you would never come up with this headway wait a second so are we it should be adjourned and um push these back to the a future date well i guess we'll have to we can't discuss it today anymore we can handle all these i mean these are all these are like very But they're very conversational issues. Yeah, and so we can, I think if you go through what's been submitted and then what's going to be submitted at the longer meeting, I think we can get through all of them without a problem. Yeah, because some of these are very related. Yeah, they're all pretty much, you know, it's like, I don't know, it's frustrating. But anyway, I hope that we adjourn. Yeah, I guess so you stood up. I'll support you. My hip hurts. Okay. Oh, sorry. All right. That's all right. Jeff, hit the gamble. We'll adjourn. Okay? Okay. All right, so we adjourned. We're adjourned. Thank you.