the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Monday, March 9, 2026 · 50 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on March 4, 2026

Summary

City council discussed progress on township debt and local roads, potential funding opportunities, and infrastructure costs, including road maintenance, millage, and accessibility issues.

  • Discussed progress on township debt and local roads
  • Met with Road Commission to discuss funding opportunities
  • Explored potential cost-saving methods for road maintenance
  • Discussed road funding and weight limits on bridges
  • Prioritized accessibility and ADA compliance in city infrastructure

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Topics

Transcript

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  1. The February 18th meeting, anybody have any changes or any corrections for that? Move as circulated. It's been moved. Second. All in favor say aye. Aye. Okay. There's nobody here for public comments, so we'll move right on. Okay, the purpose, this is really another study session, I guess. What we want to do is go over the assignments that we all got and see what progress we've made, if we've met with anybody or anything. And we'll just start at the top of the list. And if you've got anything accomplished, I just want to hear what we're up to. That's all. There's really nothing else that we need to discuss today, actually. I have that at some point. Here it is. Okay, so at the top of the list, increased funding for township debt, and I think together with identify available funding from RCOC from state 2026 budget beyond together. Jeff, do you want to? Yeah. Mike and I met last week, and basically, you know, the big picture here is we're trying to understand the existing debt of a township when it matures, and as it matures, is there some capacity, if any, that could be used for roads and know what that four- or five-year forecast looks like. We have prepared a schedule or two to help document the numbers or to bring the numbers in for analysis, and that's been handed out, and that'll be put together in the next two weeks by staff. And then we're going to... We'll start to understand where we are on the debts within the township, what capacities there is for that, if any. And so that can answer one of the questions about when people ask, well, can the township incur any debt to run the roads? So that's where that one is. The second one, Jeff and I and Mike met on dealing with the Road Commission and the state budget. And we had a very good discussion about how to approach that. What we're trying to accomplish is really trying to understand opportunities and limitations for securing funds for our local roads from the Road Commission as well as maybe some money coming to the Road Commission if the state budget ever gets funded. But as of today, unless there's any update, Mike, that still hasn't been funded. We talked about all that in the fall, and it was going to be that $40 million flowing to the County Road Commission, and it's still not here.

  2. and know what that four- or five-year forecast looks like. We have prepared a schedule or two to help document the numbers or to bring the numbers in for analysis, and that's been handed out, and that'll be put together in the next two weeks by staff. And then we're going to... We'll start to understand where we are on the debts within the township, what capacities there is for that, if any. And so that can answer one of the questions about when people ask, well, can the township incur any debt to run the roads? So that's where that one is. The second one, Jeff and I and Mike met on dealing with the Road Commission and the state budget. And we had a very good discussion about how to approach that. What we're trying to accomplish is really trying to understand opportunities and limitations for securing funds for our local roads from the Road Commission as well as maybe some money coming to the Road Commission if the state budget ever gets funded. But as of today, unless there's any update, Mike, that still hasn't been funded. We talked about all that in the fall, and it was going to be that $40 million flowing to the County Road Commission, and it's still not here. So what we want to do is, what we talked about doing, is getting together, Jeff and I, with Mike, and try to understand what is currently transpiring and the relationships the township has with the Road Commission, what kind of outreach has been made, what is going on, what's the current situation. Then once that is done, we'll have a subcommittee of us. Well, thank you. Then plan on meeting with the road commission officials and talk to them about where they are, understand their issues, hopefully get another way of communicating our issues and what our concerns are and see if we can start to make some more progress than Mike has made great progress in the last year or two with him compared previously and see if we can start to understand and report back to the group where they are, what they're doing, is there any opportunities as we go forward, and then we'll also be able to give an update on the state budget allocation or not. So that's kind of a two-stepper. We're going to meet in the next week or two internally to understand how the township is working, how they interface, how they deal with the road commission, and then we'll set

  3. We talked about all that in the fall, and it was going to be that $40 million flowing to the County Road Commission, and it's still not here. So what we want to do is, what we talked about doing, is getting together, Jeff and I, with Mike, and try to understand what is currently transpiring and the relationships the township has with the Road Commission, what kind of outreach has been made, what is going on, what's the current situation. Then once that is done, we'll have a subcommittee of us. Well, thank you. Then plan on meeting with the road commission officials and talk to them about where they are, understand their issues, hopefully get another way of communicating our issues and what our concerns are and see if we can start to make some more progress than Mike has made great progress in the last year or two with him compared previously and see if we can start to understand and report back to the group where they are, what they're doing, is there any opportunities as we go forward, and then we'll also be able to give an update on the state budget allocation or not. So that's kind of a two-stepper. We're going to meet in the next week or two internally to understand how the township is working, how they interface, how they deal with the road commission, and then we'll set up a meeting with the senior people at the road commission. Then we'll report back. We also, at the meeting, and I apologize, I forgot her name, what was her name? That was telling us about the SAD. Jen Werthman. Huh? Jen Werthman. Oh yeah, Jen. I'm sorry, I forgot her name. Okay. And she's the one who takes care of the SADs in the township. And it was very enlightening, and I was encouraged by the fact that now the township can pull permits to do some of this. It doesn't have to go through the county, right? Right? And if we pull our own permit through the county. Right? So, thanks for joining us, I would, for now our city does definitely include the traditional From the county, we have to pull a permit. We might be able to find other ways that are way less expensive things, methods that are less expensive than the $50,000 to $60,000 assessments. Like Mill and Overlay, like Cape Seal, like other things that will last a good amount of time, but are way less expensive. So that's another thing, and she talked about that. If the road meets that requirement. That's correct, of course, right. That is right. There are a lot of requirements there, and it's, but it was encouraging that now there's another avenue,

  4. working, how they interface, how they deal with the road commission, and then we'll set up a meeting with the senior people at the road commission. Then we'll report back. We also, at the meeting, and I apologize, I forgot her name, what was her name? That was telling us about the SAD. Jen Werthman. Huh? Jen Werthman. Oh yeah, Jen. I'm sorry, I forgot her name. Okay. And she's the one who takes care of the SADs in the township. And it was very enlightening, and I was encouraged by the fact that now the township can pull permits to do some of this. It doesn't have to go through the county, right? Right? And if we pull our own permit through the county. Right? So, thanks for joining us, I would, for now our city does definitely include the traditional From the county, we have to pull a permit. We might be able to find other ways that are way less expensive things, methods that are less expensive than the $50,000 to $60,000 assessments. Like Mill and Overlay, like Cape Seal, like other things that will last a good amount of time, but are way less expensive. So that's another thing, and she talked about that. If the road meets that requirement. That's correct, of course, right. That is right. There are a lot of requirements there, and it's, but it was encouraging that now there's another avenue, to use a pun, another avenue to approach this, not the one route only. So, I thought that was encouraging. And who is this, I'm sorry? Jen Werfman. Right, she's very nice. She works for you. Yeah, in assessing. Okay. So it would still be like an SAD though, where- Yeah, yes, it could be. You see, the county will not allow an SAD for, for instance, a Mill and Overlay, because they say, the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it is that they feel that a Mill and Overlay is a five-year fix. But an SAD is 15 years. You can't do that. It can't outlast. The SAD can't be longer than the, than, than the benefit stream. However, I know from, you know, I don't know, I'm not an engineer, but I can see that in certain places, it was done 20 years ago, it's still, it's still great. It's not perfect, but it's certainly pretty good. In Westchester, it was done. In Westchester, it was done. We have those areas, and they're still very nice. And so we could change rules and SADs so that we could do it, perhaps, with something way less expensive. And that's to be determined. It has to be looked at. But that's an avenue that I think is pretty good.

  5. There are a lot of requirements there, and it's, but it was encouraging that now there's another avenue, to use a pun, another avenue to approach this, not the one route only. So, I thought that was encouraging. And who is this, I'm sorry? Jen Werfman. Right, she's very nice. She works for you. Yeah, in assessing. Okay. So it would still be like an SAD though, where- Yeah, yes, it could be. You see, the county will not allow an SAD for, for instance, a Mill and Overlay, because they say, the way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it is that they feel that a Mill and Overlay is a five-year fix. But an SAD is 15 years. You can't do that. It can't outlast. The SAD can't be longer than the, than, than the benefit stream. However, I know from, you know, I don't know, I'm not an engineer, but I can see that in certain places, it was done 20 years ago, it's still, it's still great. It's not perfect, but it's certainly pretty good. In Westchester, it was done. In Westchester, it was done. We have those areas, and they're still very nice. And so we could change rules and SADs so that we could do it, perhaps, with something way less expensive. And that's to be determined. It has to be looked at. But that's an avenue that I think is pretty good. Yes? Well, one of my questions was kind of in the same direction of what are opportunities to cost check what kind of pricing the Road Commission is coming up with. I see numbers from other cities. The city of Ann Arbor recently announced a $20 million funding citywide for road resurfacing. And one of them, and I don't know what annual resurfacing looks like, but for $6.7 million, they're going to do 9.7 lane miles of road resurfacing. Now, I'm sure that's not tear out and replace. But to your point, what is enough in order to fix some of the progress? Because right now, we're doing nothing. And we got one source of telling us how much it's going to cost. Well, I think we do have some working in that direction with, again, I'm terrible with name, what's Mark Metzler? Mark Metzler. Metzler. Okay, the consultant. And he's looking.

  6. But that's an avenue that I think is pretty good. Yes? Well, one of my questions was kind of in the same direction of what are opportunities to cost check what kind of pricing the Road Commission is coming up with. I see numbers from other cities. The city of Ann Arbor recently announced a $20 million funding citywide for road resurfacing. And one of them, and I don't know what annual resurfacing looks like, but for $6.7 million, they're going to do 9.7 lane miles of road resurfacing. Now, I'm sure that's not tear out and replace. But to your point, what is enough in order to fix some of the progress? Because right now, we're doing nothing. And we got one source of telling us how much it's going to cost. Well, I think we do have some working in that direction with, again, I'm terrible with name, what's Mark Metzler? Mark Metzler. Metzler. Okay, the consultant. And he's looking. to all this stuff too and those are being checked as we speak that those numbers now I have no idea what's going on with that but but I know that he's been looking at it and some checks and balances I guess they're checking into fact-checking so I suppose that yeah I guess being done from my perspective it's interesting to be able to factor in like what is the premium that we're paying because of the road commission over in those are answers that we have to get yeah can't get answer now but those are things that we have to look at right if we can do the permits we don't need to pay that premium no not at all those were charged not that right but they let go on the road they still on the way so that's it for my tonight great thank you very much um Gary did you did you do any have you got anything to report yet yeah I did what I sort of thought the question was pertaining to and I could be wrong I could be I could be right I've been both in my life so and and it basically it's kind of a regurgitation of things we've all heard about you know with the millage and this

  7. to all this stuff too and those are being checked as we speak that those numbers now I have no idea what's going on with that but but I know that he's been looking at it and some checks and balances I guess they're checking into fact-checking so I suppose that yeah I guess being done from my perspective it's interesting to be able to factor in like what is the premium that we're paying because of the road commission over in those are answers that we have to get yeah can't get answer now but those are things that we have to look at right if we can do the permits we don't need to pay that premium no not at all those were charged not that right but they let go on the road they still on the way so that's it for my tonight great thank you very much um Gary did you did you do any have you got anything to report yet yeah I did what I sort of thought the question was pertaining to and I could be wrong I could be I could be right I've been both in my life so and and it basically it's kind of a regurgitation of things we've all heard about you know with the millage and this and that some of the questions that I think we have to figure out or you know if the city versus the township what is that going to do towards ability to to to legislate and and fix whatever this need to be fixed and I think getting the back to the Fred's thing the biggest issue that that I keep wrestling with is what's the level of roads that world will tolerate it's not are we fixing them right because we can't we can't fix all the roads the way they should be fixed but we can fix them to a level that make them drivable for a certain amount of time and that's where the nuance comes in as it's our other municipalities able to do that better than we are you know maybe we should send a group of people down to the IKEA Avenue and see what on earth they're doing there I don't think they're doing anything that's crazy but I my attitude was I thought that the people who are fixing the roads always knew what they were doing it could be wrong but I didn't get into I didn't get into well

  8. a regurgitation of things we've all heard about you know with the millage and this and that some of the questions that I think we have to figure out or you know if the city versus the township what is that going to do towards ability to to to legislate and and fix whatever this need to be fixed and I think getting the back to the Fred's thing the biggest issue that that I keep wrestling with is what's the level of roads that world will tolerate it's not are we fixing them right because we can't we can't fix all the roads the way they should be fixed but we can fix them to a level that make them drivable for a certain amount of time and that's where the nuance comes in as it's our other municipalities able to do that better than we are you know maybe we should send a group of people down to the IKEA Avenue and see what on earth they're doing there I don't think they're doing anything that's crazy but I my attitude was I thought that the people who are fixing the roads always knew what they were doing it could be wrong but I didn't get into I didn't get into well we we have an engineer that lives here and he says you're doing it wrong never did that and it worked and that's the best way to do it it's it's kind of hard to sit there and say I'm going to criticize what you're doing when that's your job to do that may I share something doctors there when we were in the process two and a half years ago as a village of trying to figure out what the next section should look like because the first two were exorbitantly expensive, realized they were $42,000. The section that we're in is $55,000. So it didn't go in the right direction, even though we were working on it. And then somebody has to justify that. We brought in a panel of experts, people in the business, to talk about how it could be done. We meaning the people that live there, because there wasn't an avenue to do that, as we know, through... That's why we're doing this, right? Because there hasn't been an avenue. And long story short, the most expensive of the three was in the mid-20s. And they didn't know what they didn't know. We just laid everything out, all the detail, all the specifications that we had. So I think it's a great idea. So anyway, that's...

  9. they were doing it could be wrong but I didn't get into I didn't get into well we we have an engineer that lives here and he says you're doing it wrong never did that and it worked and that's the best way to do it it's it's kind of hard to sit there and say I'm going to criticize what you're doing when that's your job to do that may I share something doctors there when we were in the process two and a half years ago as a village of trying to figure out what the next section should look like because the first two were exorbitantly expensive, realized they were $42,000. The section that we're in is $55,000. So it didn't go in the right direction, even though we were working on it. And then somebody has to justify that. We brought in a panel of experts, people in the business, to talk about how it could be done. We meaning the people that live there, because there wasn't an avenue to do that, as we know, through... That's why we're doing this, right? Because there hasn't been an avenue. And long story short, the most expensive of the three was in the mid-20s. And they didn't know what they didn't know. We just laid everything out, all the detail, all the specifications that we had. So I think it's a great idea. So anyway, that's... But in answering the question, my question, number three, I guess, it's the old thing that we go through, we understand what the millage limits are if we're not a city. And if we are a city, can you make a millage that's only pertainable to the streets? What happens to your other stuff? Do you want to be in this business? Those are other questions that I don't think we're supposed to be answering. But I will bring it up, and then it'll be part of the report, and then we'll be able to talk about it. Well, I think that might be part of the next, number four, one that I'm working with... with Steve. Becoming a city. Those questions... Do you know how to doió up your name? Maybe we've been... that really help the building, Yeah, exactly. So they kind of melt, a lot of these questions melt together, but it's very well put together because then we can have a good blanket review of what the heck we're supposed to be doing here. Well, I think it also melds in well with some of the things that Mindy and I have been tasked with talking about because it's a fair assessment, I think, to say what is good enough. But to say what is good enough, you've got to understand what's causing the premature wear or accelerated wear.

  10. So anyway, that's... But in answering the question, my question, number three, I guess, it's the old thing that we go through, we understand what the millage limits are if we're not a city. And if we are a city, can you make a millage that's only pertainable to the streets? What happens to your other stuff? Do you want to be in this business? Those are other questions that I don't think we're supposed to be answering. But I will bring it up, and then it'll be part of the report, and then we'll be able to talk about it. Well, I think that might be part of the next, number four, one that I'm working with... with Steve. Becoming a city. Those questions... Do you know how to doió up your name? Maybe we've been... that really help the building, Yeah, exactly. So they kind of melt, a lot of these questions melt together, but it's very well put together because then we can have a good blanket review of what the heck we're supposed to be doing here. Well, I think it also melds in well with some of the things that Mindy and I have been tasked with talking about because it's a fair assessment, I think, to say what is good enough. But to say what is good enough, you've got to understand what's causing the premature wear or accelerated wear. And if you can modify the things that are causing accelerated wear, good enough suddenly becomes pretty damn good. Well, but the thing when you use the term accelerated wear, you have to have a benchmark by which you're saying this is abnormal wear versus what a normal wear would be. And I don't know that I've seen that. Well, it's one thing to say, well, they look, you know, they're wearing out too fast, but you can't, I'd like to see it more quantifiable to say that on, and it could be Mr. Surak's pair of view that, you know, he's got some kind of a list that goes through that because he was the commander. We need to get a knowledge base to understand that exists between MDOT and RCOC. This is a science. Yeah, well, I know they'll share it with us. It's a whole different bulletin. Yeah, this is a science that can be analyzed of, you know, what caused this particular area of wear. road to be in this condition. And I use my subdivision as a good example a lot because I'm there a lot and I travel the roads by bicycle and car. And I can tell you that, you know, all the roads in our subdivision with little exception of some areas that have been fixed are the same age. And if you go through neighborhood, go through streets where there's been a high

  11. Well, I think it also melds in well with some of the things that Mindy and I have been tasked with talking about because it's a fair assessment, I think, to say what is good enough. But to say what is good enough, you've got to understand what's causing the premature wear or accelerated wear. And if you can modify the things that are causing accelerated wear, good enough suddenly becomes pretty damn good. Well, but the thing when you use the term accelerated wear, you have to have a benchmark by which you're saying this is abnormal wear versus what a normal wear would be. And I don't know that I've seen that. Well, it's one thing to say, well, they look, you know, they're wearing out too fast, but you can't, I'd like to see it more quantifiable to say that on, and it could be Mr. Surak's pair of view that, you know, he's got some kind of a list that goes through that because he was the commander. We need to get a knowledge base to understand that exists between MDOT and RCOC. This is a science. Yeah, well, I know they'll share it with us. It's a whole different bulletin. Yeah, this is a science that can be analyzed of, you know, what caused this particular area of wear. road to be in this condition. And I use my subdivision as a good example a lot because I'm there a lot and I travel the roads by bicycle and car. And I can tell you that, you know, all the roads in our subdivision with little exception of some areas that have been fixed are the same age. And if you go through neighborhood, go through streets where there's been a high amount of new construction versus streets where there's been little to no amount of new construction, the roads are very, very different looking. And they're very different looking from how they're broken up and how you can see the sort of alligatoring of the surface level. The base is still good, because if the base is bad, then you start getting potholes and you start getting, you know, asphalt moving away and popping out of things. But when it just starts looking like an alligator skin, the asphalt is crumbling on the surface, but the base is still holding. I'm not a scientist in that area, but I've worked with MDOT in the past and I've worked with the Road Commission in the past and I know that the knowledge base of how to analyze that exists. I always approach things from a standpoint, this is not the first time that this problem's come up. Somebody must know. We'll see. We'll see. Okay. All right.

  12. road to be in this condition. And I use my subdivision as a good example a lot because I'm there a lot and I travel the roads by bicycle and car. And I can tell you that, you know, all the roads in our subdivision with little exception of some areas that have been fixed are the same age. And if you go through neighborhood, go through streets where there's been a high amount of new construction versus streets where there's been little to no amount of new construction, the roads are very, very different looking. And they're very different looking from how they're broken up and how you can see the sort of alligatoring of the surface level. The base is still good, because if the base is bad, then you start getting potholes and you start getting, you know, asphalt moving away and popping out of things. But when it just starts looking like an alligator skin, the asphalt is crumbling on the surface, but the base is still holding. I'm not a scientist in that area, but I've worked with MDOT in the past and I've worked with the Road Commission in the past and I know that the knowledge base of how to analyze that exists. I always approach things from a standpoint, this is not the first time that this problem's come up. Somebody must know. We'll see. We'll see. Okay. All right. okay you want one of me too sure I've got something to report to but you go ahead sure so Jeff and I had a recent meeting covered a lot of ground on the topic of whether the township should consider becoming a city we went through a lot of elements to that we did some parceling of you do this I'll do that but one thing that had occurred to me was what I call mission creep have we exceed if we were to go down that road would we be on the mission or the charge from the trustees and so you know looking at the mission we've created I'm not sure that considering city township is part of that mission maybe we didn't consider it maybe the trustees didn't consider it so we thought that the first step before we get too deep into the pool was to decide to talk with Mike does he have some understanding and then if appropriate talk to the trustees and and do they want us

  13. okay you want one of me too sure I've got something to report to but you go ahead sure so Jeff and I had a recent meeting covered a lot of ground on the topic of whether the township should consider becoming a city we went through a lot of elements to that we did some parceling of you do this I'll do that but one thing that had occurred to me was what I call mission creep have we exceed if we were to go down that road would we be on the mission or the charge from the trustees and so you know looking at the mission we've created I'm not sure that considering city township is part of that mission maybe we didn't consider it maybe the trustees didn't consider it so we thought that the first step before we get too deep into the pool was to decide to talk with Mike does he have some understanding and then if appropriate talk to the trustees and and do they want us to look at that or not and so that so as I said we we had a lot of conversation we've talked about it so I think it's a divide and conquer it as to the who does what but But we wanted to. get an answer to that question about possible mission creep before we went any further and that leads right into what I've already done yeah no that was happening is that I'm starting to meet with first of all the Martin Brooke and I talked to Mike show stack yep and we're gonna sit down and tomorrow is my first meeting yeah and we're gonna see is that mission creep yes should we be looking at that as a blank sheet of paper is that included right and then and what ramifications or what can you tell tell us what you think that's that's where I'm at that's what I want to report that's where I'm at right you have been in the office earlier the day that Mike and I sat down and so so what you're so that's that's the essence of what where we are right now right and Jeff is going to do the contact with Mike and the other elected officials as to whether we're in the creep you know we're beyond our scope and maybe we are but maybe

  14. understanding and then if appropriate talk to the trustees and and do they want us to look at that or not and so that so as I said we we had a lot of conversation we've talked about it so I think it's a divide and conquer it as to the who does what but But we wanted to. get an answer to that question about possible mission creep before we went any further and that leads right into what I've already done yeah no that was happening is that I'm starting to meet with first of all the Martin Brooke and I talked to Mike show stack yep and we're gonna sit down and tomorrow is my first meeting yeah and we're gonna see is that mission creep yes should we be looking at that as a blank sheet of paper is that included right and then and what ramifications or what can you tell tell us what you think that's that's where I'm at that's what I want to report that's where I'm at right you have been in the office earlier the day that Mike and I sat down and so so what you're so that's that's the essence of what where we are right now right and Jeff is going to do the contact with Mike and the other elected officials as to whether we're in the creep you know we're beyond our scope and maybe we are but maybe they want us to and so then then okay then we got a charge from them to look at it so but we just wanted to well make sure we weren't getting ahead of the we talk back and forth about that very thing at length at our meetings even I and I argued that since we told the board that we were gonna look at everything that's an open right in the presentation that night a year ago almost right that it was going to be a blank sheet of paper look at everything so everything's on the table so I I argue right that that's part it could be I mean maybe maybe it's a lot of left field and it's not gonna happen and it's no good but to look at it is nothing was left not to look at yeah I wasn't arguing a position necessarily I was just saying right let's make sure we're on solid ground before we split put and that's why I'm meeting with everyone a whole lot of work into something that they don't want us to do okay so that's so end of report okay yeah that's up that's all I got too so next you also talk about funding possibilities with Oakland County federal you do any Mike you want me to let go ahead okay so Mike and I met I think it was last week and we talked about various possibilities one

  15. we're in the creep you know we're beyond our scope and maybe we are but maybe they want us to and so then then okay then we got a charge from them to look at it so but we just wanted to well make sure we weren't getting ahead of the we talk back and forth about that very thing at length at our meetings even I and I argued that since we told the board that we were gonna look at everything that's an open right in the presentation that night a year ago almost right that it was going to be a blank sheet of paper look at everything so everything's on the table so I I argue right that that's part it could be I mean maybe maybe it's a lot of left field and it's not gonna happen and it's no good but to look at it is nothing was left not to look at yeah I wasn't arguing a position necessarily I was just saying right let's make sure we're on solid ground before we split put and that's why I'm meeting with everyone a whole lot of work into something that they don't want us to do okay so that's so end of report okay yeah that's up that's all I got too so next you also talk about funding possibilities with Oakland County federal you do any Mike you want me to let go ahead okay so Mike and I met I think it was last week and we talked about various possibilities one was Oakland County and we were we Mike was aware of the fact that Jeff Soles and Jeff Hockman are in the process of ultimately meeting with Dennis Kolar at the Road Commission and so we just said we'll let them I mean they're already going to meet that why should we meet when they're already going to meet and so we'll let them we'll talk to them but before their meeting but we'll let them pursue that when they meet with Dennis on the federal level representative Haley Stevens as we know introduced the legislation to deliver tax relief for future SADS in mid-February of this year so and the federal level we'll keep in our recommendation is to keep in contact with a federal representative Stevens at the state level we talked about identifying a possible ally to to introduce similar legislation at the state level and we we thought it best because our representative is Jeremy Ross Moss I apologize Moss can't read my writing to to stay in contact with representative

  16. and I met I think it was last week and we talked about various possibilities one was Oakland County and we were we Mike was aware of the fact that Jeff Soles and Jeff Hockman are in the process of ultimately meeting with Dennis Kolar at the Road Commission and so we just said we'll let them I mean they're already going to meet that why should we meet when they're already going to meet and so we'll let them we'll talk to them but before their meeting but we'll let them pursue that when they meet with Dennis on the federal level representative Haley Stevens as we know introduced the legislation to deliver tax relief for future SADS in mid-February of this year so and the federal level we'll keep in our recommendation is to keep in contact with a federal representative Stevens at the state level we talked about identifying a possible ally to to introduce similar legislation at the state level and we we thought it best because our representative is Jeremy Ross Moss I apologize Moss can't read my writing to to stay in contact with representative Moss on that issue a senator I'm sorry state senator yeah thank you yeah and so and so so then finally then there was a other categories there's something else other than the county state or federal level and if we recall it when they represented from the I think was the township clerk but whoever it was from the Kenton township talked about a particular grant that they had obtained and it's a congestion mitigation and air quality grant and it has to do with they got it for a roundabout and I guess they qualified for congestion because the cars move more than if they sit at a traffic light so there's less congestion congestion and in less exhaust at that particular site and so I guess they qualified for the grant and so Mike was going to pass the name of that grant and information about that grant to our grant writer and see if that's something that we could qualify for or that we could fit into

  17. apologize Moss can't read my writing to to stay in contact with representative Moss on that issue a senator I'm sorry state senator yeah thank you yeah and so and so so then finally then there was a other categories there's something else other than the county state or federal level and if we recall it when they represented from the I think was the township clerk but whoever it was from the Kenton township talked about a particular grant that they had obtained and it's a congestion mitigation and air quality grant and it has to do with they got it for a roundabout and I guess they qualified for congestion because the cars move more than if they sit at a traffic light so there's less congestion congestion and in less exhaust at that particular site and so I guess they qualified for the grant and so Mike was going to pass the name of that grant and information about that grant to our grant writer and see if that's something that we could qualify for or that we could fit into that possible grant. In my research, that's the only grant possible sort of kind of that I could identify, but I'm not a grant person, but I didn't find anything other than that congestion mitigation and air quality grant. So Mike will have our grant writer research that and pursue it and we'll get back to you. Do you know how long ago that grant was issued? From the presentation from Canton, it was probably within the last year or two, but I don't know Fred. I'm going to bring it up because EPA has been neutered in the past 12 months, so. It's different now. Yeah. Are you kidding? Change is a constant. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So I don't know about, I'm not a grant person, but that was something that I came across and so I thought. I think it's still worth looking into. It's worth looking at and if it doesn't work, it doesn't. But if it does, then in a particular situation, maybe we could qualify. Yeah. So that's, anything else Mike that, beyond that, that we talked about? Yep. Okay. Thank you.

  18. writer and see if that's something that we could qualify for or that we could fit into that possible grant. In my research, that's the only grant possible sort of kind of that I could identify, but I'm not a grant person, but I didn't find anything other than that congestion mitigation and air quality grant. So Mike will have our grant writer research that and pursue it and we'll get back to you. Do you know how long ago that grant was issued? From the presentation from Canton, it was probably within the last year or two, but I don't know Fred. I'm going to bring it up because EPA has been neutered in the past 12 months, so. It's different now. Yeah. Are you kidding? Change is a constant. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. So I don't know about, I'm not a grant person, but that was something that I came across and so I thought. I think it's still worth looking into. It's worth looking at and if it doesn't work, it doesn't. But if it does, then in a particular situation, maybe we could qualify. Yeah. So that's, anything else Mike that, beyond that, that we talked about? Yep. Okay. Thank you. that comes to mind but okay we got it we have to look into those areas and sometimes it's not available this year you just got to stay with it yeah so that's it the one thing when I put this together when I put Oakland County I wasn't thinking of the Road Commission I was thinking of the county government okay and somebody I've you know get one of these things you run into somebody and they were saying that they were aware that the county they they thought was doing some things that could be ancillary or part of roads which I find different unusual because you got the Road Commission yeah but so the idea was to investigate at the county level not the Road Commission okay to say if there's anything out there it may be nothing there may be some grant or something that you're not going and just to see if it exists we appreciate that Jeff that wasn't something that we covered but that's what that we'll circle back and touch on that it's an ongoing process it's just an update I understand but that's I said well yeah that's it I appreciate the clarification yeah and both we'll follow up I think for me it would be very helpful because of all this marijuana talk going around about the tax money and is it there is it not there to understand right now where is the state in regards to making a commitment to

  19. that comes to mind but okay we got it we have to look into those areas and sometimes it's not available this year you just got to stay with it yeah so that's it the one thing when I put this together when I put Oakland County I wasn't thinking of the Road Commission I was thinking of the county government okay and somebody I've you know get one of these things you run into somebody and they were saying that they were aware that the county they they thought was doing some things that could be ancillary or part of roads which I find different unusual because you got the Road Commission yeah but so the idea was to investigate at the county level not the Road Commission okay to say if there's anything out there it may be nothing there may be some grant or something that you're not going and just to see if it exists we appreciate that Jeff that wasn't something that we covered but that's what that we'll circle back and touch on that it's an ongoing process it's just an update I understand but that's I said well yeah that's it I appreciate the clarification yeah and both we'll follow up I think for me it would be very helpful because of all this marijuana talk going around about the tax money and is it there is it not there to understand right now where is the state in regards to making a commitment to neighborhood roads and where does Bloomfield Hills Bloomfield Township fit in to that plan And that's, to me, that kind of tells us where we are, at least with the money-wise, because it's silly for us to say we can raise money this way and that way when it doesn't really, it's not an impact. So have they done that yet? No, but maybe we can bring Gary back in from Road Commission and have him give us the latest update. We'll get that set up. Well, it's in here. What does it say? That it hasn't known yet, and it's the amount we knew before. Well, it doesn't know it. But when they made the brochure, I'm thinking that. Well, we just got the brochure. I think this brochure's been out for a couple of years. Well, it's in here. Just came in the mail. No, you got it right there. Well, there you go. Well, the last I talked to Gary. You look right here, Dr. Serian. Tells you. He had indicated that they felt they were a year away from really receiving money. Right. But I haven't talked to Gary in probably a month. But I need to call him about a couple of things. There's a lot of lawsuits, especially for the marijuana stuff.

  20. understand right now where is the state in regards to making a commitment to neighborhood roads and where does Bloomfield Hills Bloomfield Township fit in to that plan And that's, to me, that kind of tells us where we are, at least with the money-wise, because it's silly for us to say we can raise money this way and that way when it doesn't really, it's not an impact. So have they done that yet? No, but maybe we can bring Gary back in from Road Commission and have him give us the latest update. We'll get that set up. Well, it's in here. What does it say? That it hasn't known yet, and it's the amount we knew before. Well, it doesn't know it. But when they made the brochure, I'm thinking that. Well, we just got the brochure. I think this brochure's been out for a couple of years. Well, it's in here. Just came in the mail. No, you got it right there. Well, there you go. Well, the last I talked to Gary. You look right here, Dr. Serian. Tells you. He had indicated that they felt they were a year away from really receiving money. Right. But I haven't talked to Gary in probably a month. But I need to call him about a couple of things. There's a lot of lawsuits, especially for the marijuana stuff. They're not going down without a fight. Yeah. And I know just what I read is the marijuana sales are down, but we don't know where it's going. But when I was with some legislators, and they indicated that the market here for the marijuana price is still lower than anywhere else. And I'm not sure what he meant by everywhere else, but we still have some of the lower prices with the higher tax on it. But... But... But... I didn't get deep into it, but that was a comment I heard. But that would help. They thought many people stocked up before the new year, before the tax took effect as well. And the legal marijuana business competes with the black market here. I don't know anything about that. Yeah, it doesn't. I read the legislation. The way it works is the funding mechanism is there, but they have to fill the coffers. So if the money isn't there on January 1st or June 13th, it takes a while for the coffers to fill, and they won't be fully funded until toward the end of the year. So although the legislation is in place, we're not going to really see some gush of cash in

  21. There's a lot of lawsuits, especially for the marijuana stuff. They're not going down without a fight. Yeah. And I know just what I read is the marijuana sales are down, but we don't know where it's going. But when I was with some legislators, and they indicated that the market here for the marijuana price is still lower than anywhere else. And I'm not sure what he meant by everywhere else, but we still have some of the lower prices with the higher tax on it. But... But... But... I didn't get deep into it, but that was a comment I heard. But that would help. They thought many people stocked up before the new year, before the tax took effect as well. And the legal marijuana business competes with the black market here. I don't know anything about that. Yeah, it doesn't. I read the legislation. The way it works is the funding mechanism is there, but they have to fill the coffers. So if the money isn't there on January 1st or June 13th, it takes a while for the coffers to fill, and they won't be fully funded until toward the end of the year. So although the legislation is in place, we're not going to really see some gush of cash in 2026 because it's not there. The coffers haven't been filled. Are you having Gary come back then? Yeah, I think we should and get some updates. We'll get it from the SME. Yeah, and they've been really, they've been very helpful. And Mark has really made an impact helping us understand some of the challenges that the RCOC has. Okay, anything else on that? Okay, then the next is other funding sources and damage mitigation. Mindy and Fred. Fred. Fred. I see. Well, okay. No, no, I'm being transparent. It's Fred. No, no, no, no. And Fred knows it's Fred. Having a chance to read it, we just got this. I read it, but I read it, but it's Fred. I have a good chance. we're really kind of in the draft stage still okay I think we'll be meeting next week to go over some of the more details and quite honestly it's gone from first draft was kind of just spitballing ideas without any without any order and and at least to this the latest draft I think we're kind of looking at well what are some of the root causes because we can look at we can look at other funding sources and what can be done but until you understand the root cause of what's

  22. So although the legislation is in place, we're not going to really see some gush of cash in 2026 because it's not there. The coffers haven't been filled. Are you having Gary come back then? Yeah, I think we should and get some updates. We'll get it from the SME. Yeah, and they've been really, they've been very helpful. And Mark has really made an impact helping us understand some of the challenges that the RCOC has. Okay, anything else on that? Okay, then the next is other funding sources and damage mitigation. Mindy and Fred. Fred. Fred. I see. Well, okay. No, no, I'm being transparent. It's Fred. No, no, no, no. And Fred knows it's Fred. Having a chance to read it, we just got this. I read it, but I read it, but it's Fred. I have a good chance. we're really kind of in the draft stage still okay I think we'll be meeting next week to go over some of the more details and quite honestly it's gone from first draft was kind of just spitballing ideas without any without any order and and at least to this the latest draft I think we're kind of looking at well what are some of the root causes because we can look at we can look at other funding sources and what can be done but until you understand the root cause of what's causing things to be there and make recommendations based on the root cause and and again you know I it's hard to look at scientific data because the scientific data doesn't exist because the methodologies that have been used historically by the county Road Commission and by our township to analyze roads is archaic it's just archaic so I think I look at just you know I'm a relatively new resident I think to the county I've been here for 22 years but just in my neighborhood like I said I've seen the prototypical house in my neighborhood go from 2,500 to 3,300 square feet half of them without basements and now that it's 4,500 to 6,500 square feet multi-level and they have full basements. And you just look at the impact of that and the methodology of issuing building permits. Nothing has changed. I think I'm not going too far

  23. sources and what can be done but until you understand the root cause of what's causing things to be there and make recommendations based on the root cause and and again you know I it's hard to look at scientific data because the scientific data doesn't exist because the methodologies that have been used historically by the county Road Commission and by our township to analyze roads is archaic it's just archaic so I think I look at just you know I'm a relatively new resident I think to the county I've been here for 22 years but just in my neighborhood like I said I've seen the prototypical house in my neighborhood go from 2,500 to 3,300 square feet half of them without basements and now that it's 4,500 to 6,500 square feet multi-level and they have full basements. And you just look at the impact of that and the methodology of issuing building permits. Nothing has changed. I think I'm not going too far out on a limb to say I would bet that that not a thing has changed in the way we issue building permits in the townships since the 1970s. I'd like to be wrong but I see no scientific evidence based on how they do it to prove me wrong. So I think we just have to look at what can be done. How much tonnage is being removed? If you go back 25-30 years, even 20 years when I moved in, a very large house in my neighborhood was in the 4,000 square foot range. Now that's a very small house to go in and it's hardly worth the construction. So you know we don't have any rules township wise or building permit wise or otherwise to regulate the types of vehicles that are coming in and out of the neighborhood during construction. And again these are just things that we're just going to start looking at and trying to spitball. Yes sir. Are you saying there's no weight limit on any truck that goes into the neighborhood? I'm saying there are there are weight limits but they're not enforced. So if they're not enforced there's no weight limits.

  24. issuing building permits. Nothing has changed. I think I'm not going too far out on a limb to say I would bet that that not a thing has changed in the way we issue building permits in the townships since the 1970s. I'd like to be wrong but I see no scientific evidence based on how they do it to prove me wrong. So I think we just have to look at what can be done. How much tonnage is being removed? If you go back 25-30 years, even 20 years when I moved in, a very large house in my neighborhood was in the 4,000 square foot range. Now that's a very small house to go in and it's hardly worth the construction. So you know we don't have any rules township wise or building permit wise or otherwise to regulate the types of vehicles that are coming in and out of the neighborhood during construction. And again these are just things that we're just going to start looking at and trying to spitball. Yes sir. Are you saying there's no weight limit on any truck that goes into the neighborhood? I'm saying there are there are weight limits but they're not enforced. So if they're not enforced there's no weight limits. yeah I checked into that I called the county on that once a couple of years ago and we talked and the answer I got was there are no weight limits there are weight limits for like a three-week period in the spring just in the early spring like about now but there's no weight limits all year long so no spring police and then in June and they don't do anything anyway but because they're worried about you know the freestyle you know that when the spring all of a sudden the potholes start showing up there's a weight limit then now it could have changed since then but when I went I spoke with them it there was there's none zero but I mean even at the state level there is a theoretical weight limit for how much you should have on a per axle on a vehicle when's the last time you saw a truck pulled over with with somebody scaling the truck well one solution to that is you tell the people who are asking for a permit these are the weight limits of the truck that can come into the neighborhood if you if your contractor violates this weight limit then this this and this will happen I just really think that's III think that's what you're getting at and I agree with it but someone has to be able to say that because it's it's the guy who if I get if I'm a contractor and I contract with a brick person you can't bring the three car truck

  25. yeah I checked into that I called the county on that once a couple of years ago and we talked and the answer I got was there are no weight limits there are weight limits for like a three-week period in the spring just in the early spring like about now but there's no weight limits all year long so no spring police and then in June and they don't do anything anyway but because they're worried about you know the freestyle you know that when the spring all of a sudden the potholes start showing up there's a weight limit then now it could have changed since then but when I went I spoke with them it there was there's none zero but I mean even at the state level there is a theoretical weight limit for how much you should have on a per axle on a vehicle when's the last time you saw a truck pulled over with with somebody scaling the truck well one solution to that is you tell the people who are asking for a permit these are the weight limits of the truck that can come into the neighborhood if you if your contractor violates this weight limit then this this and this will happen I just really think that's III think that's what you're getting at and I agree with it but someone has to be able to say that because it's it's the guy who if I get if I'm a contractor and I contract with a brick person you can't bring the three car truck in here you can only bring this car and then if they understand that that's enforceable because I've done building in Bloomfield and in Southfield and other place you you don't want to get on the wrong side of that equation because if you do then you you can waste your permit your your your your whole project can be dead in the water so but we have to be very forceful about this is what they have to sign an affidavit that they understand I mean assuming that people go along with all this this kind of stuff about you know the deterioration of the because the idea of doing it at seasons is ridiculous well I mean that's a that's a frost law that that I even the size I may have that conversation in writing at home but but it but I have to find it but I agree with you I don't think that there's any stated weight limit for a vehicle coming into a residential road in our township there's a state limit per axle but it's it's a it's a commercial road it you know well maybe the solution that we can buy off and get the people who do the

  26. contractor and I contract with a brick person you can't bring the three car truck in here you can only bring this car and then if they understand that that's enforceable because I've done building in Bloomfield and in Southfield and other place you you don't want to get on the wrong side of that equation because if you do then you you can waste your permit your your your your whole project can be dead in the water so but we have to be very forceful about this is what they have to sign an affidavit that they understand I mean assuming that people go along with all this this kind of stuff about you know the deterioration of the because the idea of doing it at seasons is ridiculous well I mean that's a that's a frost law that that I even the size I may have that conversation in writing at home but but it but I have to find it but I agree with you I don't think that there's any stated weight limit for a vehicle coming into a residential road in our township there's a state limit per axle but it's it's a it's a commercial road it you know well maybe the solution that we can buy off and get the people who do the codes and things like that to buy into that and will done a service to someone yeah I think those are some of the things that I think that Mindy and I are going to get more deeper into next week and just looking at how do you take a look at what's there how do you root cause what's there and and and once you have a root cause then you can come up with some suggestions of what might you do to you know if you were going to revamp the whole the whole permitting system, what might you do? John, did you have something? How might you go about it? I was involved when my subdivision replaced its roads about a dozen years ago. And although there may not be an ordinance or law about weight in a subdivision, I do know that the engineers told us that we engineer the roads for a certain weight. Now, I don't recall that. It was a dozen years ago. It wasn't, you know, but they told us that we engineer for X. And so there is, even though there's not an ordinance, they build the roads with a certain tolerance.

  27. know well maybe the solution that we can buy off and get the people who do the codes and things like that to buy into that and will done a service to someone yeah I think those are some of the things that I think that Mindy and I are going to get more deeper into next week and just looking at how do you take a look at what's there how do you root cause what's there and and and once you have a root cause then you can come up with some suggestions of what might you do to you know if you were going to revamp the whole the whole permitting system, what might you do? John, did you have something? How might you go about it? I was involved when my subdivision replaced its roads about a dozen years ago. And although there may not be an ordinance or law about weight in a subdivision, I do know that the engineers told us that we engineer the roads for a certain weight. Now, I don't recall that. It was a dozen years ago. It wasn't, you know, but they told us that we engineer for X. And so there is, even though there's not an ordinance, they build the roads with a certain tolerance. And if we're exceeding that, what they designed the roads for, then maybe that could exacerbate or accelerate the deterioration of the roads. But you can't just assume because it's... Perhaps, perhaps. You can't assume because the house is bigger, it's harder on the roads. Even though that may be empirically what you're trying to connect the dots. You have to show that that's true. Right. But going above what they've engineered the road to be should be at least the very least be the limit of what you allow to be there. I know, but it also ties back into your topic of what's good enough. So you want to engineer the road so that you can have... If you can exceed axle limits, that's great. You just put a foot and a half a base underneath the road. What you engineer the road to goes back to what is the cost to fix that road or build that road on a per mile basis. And if we can regulate how much damage is being done to the road by size of trucks, you can engineer to a lower level and you can reduce cost. You mean replace the road to a lower level than it was originally designed to do?

  28. they build the roads with a certain tolerance. And if we're exceeding that, what they designed the roads for, then maybe that could exacerbate or accelerate the deterioration of the roads. But you can't just assume because it's... Perhaps, perhaps. You can't assume because the house is bigger, it's harder on the roads. Even though that may be empirically what you're trying to connect the dots. You have to show that that's true. Right. But going above what they've engineered the road to be should be at least the very least be the limit of what you allow to be there. I know, but it also ties back into your topic of what's good enough. So you want to engineer the road so that you can have... If you can exceed axle limits, that's great. You just put a foot and a half a base underneath the road. What you engineer the road to goes back to what is the cost to fix that road or build that road on a per mile basis. And if we can regulate how much damage is being done to the road by size of trucks, you can engineer to a lower level and you can reduce cost. You mean replace the road to a lower level than it was originally designed to do? It might not even be replacing the whole road. You might be able to just change the engineering specification for what you're doing. All I'm getting at is that if you're engineering to a commercial rate, you're engineering for a road about that thick. If you're engineering to a lower rate, you might be reducing down to 8 inches. That is a differential in cost. Yeah. I don't know the answer to it. I'm just throwing it out as things that we should be considering in the whole process. Jeff, would the standard then be whatever the state axle limit is? No. I think we have the ability to reduce. The state axle limit is based on a state three-way highway where you've got 14 inches of base underneath 8 inches of concrete. I can't believe that the township doesn't have a limit for the neighborhood road. Well, it either does. have a limit or it's not enforced i think i can't believe they don't have it the only the only posting i've ever seen is is if you go if you go across the telegraph at square lake road there's a sign

  29. You mean replace the road to a lower level than it was originally designed to do? It might not even be replacing the whole road. You might be able to just change the engineering specification for what you're doing. All I'm getting at is that if you're engineering to a commercial rate, you're engineering for a road about that thick. If you're engineering to a lower rate, you might be reducing down to 8 inches. That is a differential in cost. Yeah. I don't know the answer to it. I'm just throwing it out as things that we should be considering in the whole process. Jeff, would the standard then be whatever the state axle limit is? No. I think we have the ability to reduce. The state axle limit is based on a state three-way highway where you've got 14 inches of base underneath 8 inches of concrete. I can't believe that the township doesn't have a limit for the neighborhood road. Well, it either does. have a limit or it's not enforced i think i can't believe they don't have it the only the only posting i've ever seen is is if you go if you go across the telegraph at square lake road there's a sign at each end that says maximum weight limit for the bridge is is 10 000 for a bridge they'll do it that's a bridge lake road yeah yeah yeah and the only reason that that always sticks out in my mind when i saw it is because the new electric hummer weighs 9 000 pounds wow the one electric car electric calling thousand yeah um i'll look i bet you i still have that communication from from the county about i'll look i bet you i do i seem to remember well these are good questions that kind of because we can ask again and if they're not there maybe we maybe we should we would recommend that uh they look at it that's what we're supposed to be doing like veer for deer same concept no there's not like deer for deer deer you know i don't go down that don't go down that road okay this isn't the deer committee i'm not on the deer committee we're going to arrest our first deer planner person all right see he took you took the bait took the bait you know what you should know better he took the bait

  30. i've ever seen is is if you go if you go across the telegraph at square lake road there's a sign at each end that says maximum weight limit for the bridge is is 10 000 for a bridge they'll do it that's a bridge lake road yeah yeah yeah and the only reason that that always sticks out in my mind when i saw it is because the new electric hummer weighs 9 000 pounds wow the one electric car electric calling thousand yeah um i'll look i bet you i still have that communication from from the county about i'll look i bet you i do i seem to remember well these are good questions that kind of because we can ask again and if they're not there maybe we maybe we should we would recommend that uh they look at it that's what we're supposed to be doing like veer for deer same concept no there's not like deer for deer deer you know i don't go down that don't go down that road okay this isn't the deer committee i'm not on the deer committee we're going to arrest our first deer planner person all right see he took you took the bait took the bait you know what you should know better he took the bait is illegal. Uh-huh, right, exactly. All right, anything else? We got that covered. We got that covered. Okay, then, um, John. Yes, sir? Yes. All right, I was finally successful to get on Representative Donnie Steele's calendar, huh? Did it take a while? Well, two and a half weeks. That's not bad. Mr. McLean, we're going to fix that. Come on. He got in. Okay, well. He's more persevering. The last week had a team's meeting with her with the specific intentions to say what's it going to take to get townships added to Public Act 51, which the answer to that was the, the, um, House Bill 4230 was, uh, going to be an amendment to Public Act 51 to introduce Neighborhood Road Fund with the intention, from her perspective, to include subdivisions. For townships? Correct. I'm sorry. Um, that was stricken from the bill in order to get it approved. So she knows it's an absolute uphill battle to amend Public Act 51 to include township funding. So then it's like, okay, what do we do at that point? Of which she sat back in her chair and says, okay, Oakland County, uh, Road Commission for Oakland County gets the highest amount of funds of any county in Michigan.

  31. is illegal. Uh-huh, right, exactly. All right, anything else? We got that covered. We got that covered. Okay, then, um, John. Yes, sir? Yes. All right, I was finally successful to get on Representative Donnie Steele's calendar, huh? Did it take a while? Well, two and a half weeks. That's not bad. Mr. McLean, we're going to fix that. Come on. He got in. Okay, well. He's more persevering. The last week had a team's meeting with her with the specific intentions to say what's it going to take to get townships added to Public Act 51, which the answer to that was the, the, um, House Bill 4230 was, uh, going to be an amendment to Public Act 51 to introduce Neighborhood Road Fund with the intention, from her perspective, to include subdivisions. For townships? Correct. I'm sorry. Um, that was stricken from the bill in order to get it approved. So she knows it's an absolute uphill battle to amend Public Act 51 to include township funding. So then it's like, okay, what do we do at that point? Of which she sat back in her chair and says, okay, Oakland County, uh, Road Commission for Oakland County gets the highest amount of funds of any county in Michigan. Uh, with the, um, House Bill 4230, there was going to be a 30% with the, um, House Bill 4230, there was going to be a 30% and that, um, do, uh, we're going to try to declare systems ask no staff at this point. increase of that. So you need to establish a good relationship with the road commission and become a squeaky wheel to them. So attend the board meetings for the road commission. And I'm thinking what I've heard is that we already have a good relationship with the road commission of Oakland County. So trying to raise the awareness wasn't really going to help at all. She reminded me of things we've heard from other presenters that the road commission prioritizes based on traffic load and safety. And because obviously subdivisions don't have the issue with regards to lots of traffic on it, what's going to happen for the local roads is going to be a higher priority on traditional roads that are supported by MDOT, for instance. So it looks like you're the loser unless you become the squeaky wheel with regards to subdivisions.

  32. Um, that was stricken from the bill in order to get it approved. So she knows it's an absolute uphill battle to amend Public Act 51 to include township funding. So then it's like, okay, what do we do at that point? Of which she sat back in her chair and says, okay, Oakland County, uh, Road Commission for Oakland County gets the highest amount of funds of any county in Michigan. Uh, with the, um, House Bill 4230, there was going to be a 30% with the, um, House Bill 4230, there was going to be a 30% and that, um, do, uh, we're going to try to declare systems ask no staff at this point. increase of that. So you need to establish a good relationship with the road commission and become a squeaky wheel to them. So attend the board meetings for the road commission. And I'm thinking what I've heard is that we already have a good relationship with the road commission of Oakland County. So trying to raise the awareness wasn't really going to help at all. She reminded me of things we've heard from other presenters that the road commission prioritizes based on traffic load and safety. And because obviously subdivisions don't have the issue with regards to lots of traffic on it, what's going to happen for the local roads is going to be a higher priority on traditional roads that are supported by MDOT, for instance. So it looks like you're the loser unless you become the squeaky wheel with regards to subdivisions. Well, your chart showed that the roads were unsafe. No, they were in poor condition. In poor condition. Well, a poor condition road is usually an unsafe road. No, like in a subdivision north of me, Bloomfield North, which has the same roadway as my subdivision, they're concrete roads. We had a washout from underneath one of the platforms and the road actually collapsed. That's the same road. stayed that way for three months until, and they put, Boothfield Township put barricades around it so you didn't go into the spot that had dropped, but it finally got fixed because that was truly an unsafe condition with the roadway being washed out underneath the concrete itself. But having poor-looking concrete roads and having unsafe are completely different as far as road commission. Well, depending on the definition of unsafe, I think that's the key. They define it one way, that's all. Is the road commission, since they own the roads, are they exempt from meeting the American Disabilities Act standards? Because unsafe for somebody in a walker or a wheelchair

  33. So it looks like you're the loser unless you become the squeaky wheel with regards to subdivisions. Well, your chart showed that the roads were unsafe. No, they were in poor condition. In poor condition. Well, a poor condition road is usually an unsafe road. No, like in a subdivision north of me, Bloomfield North, which has the same roadway as my subdivision, they're concrete roads. We had a washout from underneath one of the platforms and the road actually collapsed. That's the same road. stayed that way for three months until, and they put, Boothfield Township put barricades around it so you didn't go into the spot that had dropped, but it finally got fixed because that was truly an unsafe condition with the roadway being washed out underneath the concrete itself. But having poor-looking concrete roads and having unsafe are completely different as far as road commission. Well, depending on the definition of unsafe, I think that's the key. They define it one way, that's all. Is the road commission, since they own the roads, are they exempt from meeting the American Disabilities Act standards? Because unsafe for somebody in a walker or a wheelchair is very different from somebody who's able-bodied. Sure. And maybe that's the squeaky wheel approach that can take. Well, I think roads are designed for what are called motorized vehicles, not wheelchairs. Not in a subway that doesn't have sidewalks. Well, we only have sidewalks, so. Yeah, the township allowed people to develop neighborhoods without sidewalks. Yeah. So that takes that argument away. Okay, the other thing, we can't get political here, but we can rally and go to the meeting and stack the meeting of the commission and just say, this is long enough, and all we can do is try. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. let me just say the approach that we were taking is to establish a good relationship with the county not to be adversarial so let's we want to go on that route but at times at times sometimes the county needs a enzyme to be able to make this happen sometimes sometimes an adversary can well I mean if they're not gonna get off the docket we'll try the nice way first good idea and then we then we won't put any Crisco in the cookies after that I have a

  34. Because unsafe for somebody in a walker or a wheelchair is very different from somebody who's able-bodied. Sure. And maybe that's the squeaky wheel approach that can take. Well, I think roads are designed for what are called motorized vehicles, not wheelchairs. Not in a subway that doesn't have sidewalks. Well, we only have sidewalks, so. Yeah, the township allowed people to develop neighborhoods without sidewalks. Yeah. So that takes that argument away. Okay, the other thing, we can't get political here, but we can rally and go to the meeting and stack the meeting of the commission and just say, this is long enough, and all we can do is try. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. let me just say the approach that we were taking is to establish a good relationship with the county not to be adversarial so let's we want to go on that route but at times at times sometimes the county needs a enzyme to be able to make this happen sometimes sometimes an adversary can well I mean if they're not gonna get off the docket we'll try the nice way first good idea and then we then we won't put any Crisco in the cookies after that I have a question yes is this the Road Commission yes yes this is the Road Commission yes that's the executive committee appointed by the Oakland County Board of Commissioners okay how many more people besides these three just three that's it that's it those are the commissioners and two are new fairly new and they're very politically they're very very politically okay um could we have them come they would never come to us could they come and speak to us we could ask them I think that'd be great I'm gonna send an olive branch and say we talked to you about your pacer report it's all right I think so what are you guys laughing at me I don't know I never know until you ask that's right if you don't ask you don't get you you can always ask for come to Jesus meeting that's I learned that what did Donnie say about the Pacer report she has the awareness of our conditions through all of Oakland County yes I mean isn't she running for office yes but not in this district no but she's running for office for state Senate

  35. and then we then we won't put any Crisco in the cookies after that I have a question yes is this the Road Commission yes yes this is the Road Commission yes that's the executive committee appointed by the Oakland County Board of Commissioners okay how many more people besides these three just three that's it that's it those are the commissioners and two are new fairly new and they're very politically they're very very politically okay um could we have them come they would never come to us could they come and speak to us we could ask them I think that'd be great I'm gonna send an olive branch and say we talked to you about your pacer report it's all right I think so what are you guys laughing at me I don't know I never know until you ask that's right if you don't ask you don't get you you can always ask for come to Jesus meeting that's I learned that what did Donnie say about the Pacer report she has the awareness of our conditions through all of Oakland County yes I mean isn't she running for office yes but not in this district no but she's running for office for state Senate first state Senate in a different district well we all know I mean I can tell you in my neighborhood my daughter's in a wheelchair and she lives two doors away from me and navigating from her house to my house on the street is dangerous if she's not paying close attention to the path that she's taking and I don't know if the ADA is a useful tool to use to stimulate somebody at the Road Commission but you know Mike knows my daughter she's very politically savvy and area and quite it quite an activist and a few years ago actually sued the city of Birmingham for the mismanagement of what they did in the downtown area for for accessibility that got turned over to the Department of Justice and then ended up with the city of Birmingham agreeing to to to to 20 million dollar assessment

  36. yes but not in this district no but she's running for office for state Senate first state Senate in a different district well we all know I mean I can tell you in my neighborhood my daughter's in a wheelchair and she lives two doors away from me and navigating from her house to my house on the street is dangerous if she's not paying close attention to the path that she's taking and I don't know if the ADA is a useful tool to use to stimulate somebody at the Road Commission but you know Mike knows my daughter she's very politically savvy and area and quite it quite an activist and a few years ago actually sued the city of Birmingham for the mismanagement of what they did in the downtown area for for accessibility that got turned over to the Department of Justice and then ended up with the city of Birmingham agreeing to to to to 20 million dollar assessment over four years five million dollars a year to repair and make the infrastructure in the city more ADA accessible for parking so you know it's a matter of making the right case and getting the right people involved but my attitude is is whatever it takes well do we have to if we have to hire stunt people to do this my daughter's not a stunt person no I mean I talk about the kids in my neighborhood they can't ride it they can't ride it they can't ride their scooters down the road you just can't yeah she came you remember when she came she was here he spoke to us so I'm very good point early yeah you know may it may come to that point where I'll go to some of the people in the subdivision and say have your kid come there take their scooter up to there and pretend like they went over and I'll say this is what it's you know what that's blocking anyway that's a way to listen let's let's let's let's not but I think it's a topic to at least have a to have a civil conversation with the Road Commission over it doesn't have to escalate to we're going to we're going to sue you we're going to start litigation but I think from the standpoint of of the

  37. over four years five million dollars a year to repair and make the infrastructure in the city more ADA accessible for parking so you know it's a matter of making the right case and getting the right people involved but my attitude is is whatever it takes well do we have to if we have to hire stunt people to do this my daughter's not a stunt person no I mean I talk about the kids in my neighborhood they can't ride it they can't ride it they can't ride their scooters down the road you just can't yeah she came you remember when she came she was here he spoke to us so I'm very good point early yeah you know may it may come to that point where I'll go to some of the people in the subdivision and say have your kid come there take their scooter up to there and pretend like they went over and I'll say this is what it's you know what that's blocking anyway that's a way to listen let's let's let's let's not but I think it's a topic to at least have a to have a civil conversation with the Road Commission over it doesn't have to escalate to we're going to we're going to sue you we're going to start litigation but I think from the standpoint of of the township we can certainly express concern that because we have neighborhoods with outside walks it means that the roads are pedestrian ways and so you've got kids rollerblading You've got people in wheelchairs. You've got a variety of different activities going on, and it creates an unsafe condition. Some of those unsafe conditions are covered by the American Disabilities Act. So how do we work together to find revenue to fix the problem for everybody's safety? I'm just saying. There you go. Just spitballing here. All right. But the problem would be that I don't have any disabled people in my neighborhood, and my roads absolutely suck. So I would never have those taken care of. But you could have. This is what happened during our construction in the village. There were people that were in their homes that there was going to be a death on the street if we didn't figure out how to help them during the construction. It was very serious. All right. A baby in the NICU just came home on oxygen, newborn, premature, and they could not get out of the driveway to take the baby to the hospital. This is serious stuff.

  38. sue you we're going to start litigation but I think from the standpoint of of the township we can certainly express concern that because we have neighborhoods with outside walks it means that the roads are pedestrian ways and so you've got kids rollerblading You've got people in wheelchairs. You've got a variety of different activities going on, and it creates an unsafe condition. Some of those unsafe conditions are covered by the American Disabilities Act. So how do we work together to find revenue to fix the problem for everybody's safety? I'm just saying. There you go. Just spitballing here. All right. But the problem would be that I don't have any disabled people in my neighborhood, and my roads absolutely suck. So I would never have those taken care of. But you could have. This is what happened during our construction in the village. There were people that were in their homes that there was going to be a death on the street if we didn't figure out how to help them during the construction. It was very serious. All right. A baby in the NICU just came home on oxygen, newborn, premature, and they could not get out of the driveway to take the baby to the hospital. This is serious stuff. Mike knows. He was very helpful. Thank you. But I mean, they're that serious. Okay. All right. I think we've got reports from everybody. That's good. We're making progress. Let me just add. Donnie, if I could also bring up that whole idea of being aware of other municipalities of pulling permits, talking about the attempt to reduce the cost of having the pavement done, as opposed to trying to get townships included, maybe that's an approach we can look at. Thank you. Thank you. so that I second that motion I guess we had brought up before all right there is one thing I just know it I just noticed I read this minutes there is a mistake on the minutes on the attendance mr. Nader's name is neither here nor absent nor present only one or the other it can't be neither okay so it needs to be amended I didn't notice that okay any other item okay items not on the agenda anybody want to start bring anything up that we have not we do not have on the agenda I'll just as an FYI and sue can help me with this on Monday March 23rd

  39. This is serious stuff. Mike knows. He was very helpful. Thank you. But I mean, they're that serious. Okay. All right. I think we've got reports from everybody. That's good. We're making progress. Let me just add. Donnie, if I could also bring up that whole idea of being aware of other municipalities of pulling permits, talking about the attempt to reduce the cost of having the pavement done, as opposed to trying to get townships included, maybe that's an approach we can look at. Thank you. Thank you. so that I second that motion I guess we had brought up before all right there is one thing I just know it I just noticed I read this minutes there is a mistake on the minutes on the attendance mr. Nader's name is neither here nor absent nor present only one or the other it can't be neither okay so it needs to be amended I didn't notice that okay any other item okay items not on the agenda anybody want to start bring anything up that we have not we do not have on the agenda I'll just as an FYI and sue can help me with this on Monday March 23rd township offices are going to be closed from 1 to 530 we're going to do some training with the staff here so just make note and we'll have it on on the website email and noted on the doors coming in right soon anything else you want to add to that and that's Monday March 23rd from 1 to 530 nothing like that at all I want to get scared no nothing be scared of and we don't have the meeting on the 18th that's been canceled I missed I apologize we were our next meeting would be able to be able to you you you March the 23rd, from 1 to 5.30, Townsend Bosses are going to be closed. That's a good day to do it. Okay, just made it noted. How to deal with... All right, Mr. Chair, I move to adjourn. It's been moved to adjourn and second. Very good, thank you. This is a good meeting. We're all making good progress in our individual areas. It's good.

  40. agenda I'll just as an FYI and sue can help me with this on Monday March 23rd township offices are going to be closed from 1 to 530 we're going to do some training with the staff here so just make note and we'll have it on on the website email and noted on the doors coming in right soon anything else you want to add to that and that's Monday March 23rd from 1 to 530 nothing like that at all I want to get scared no nothing be scared of and we don't have the meeting on the 18th that's been canceled I missed I apologize we were our next meeting would be able to be able to you you you March the 23rd, from 1 to 5.30, Townsend Bosses are going to be closed. That's a good day to do it. Okay, just made it noted. How to deal with... All right, Mr. Chair, I move to adjourn. It's been moved to adjourn and second. Very good, thank you. This is a good meeting. We're all making good progress in our individual areas. It's good. It's a very complex subject.