the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Thursday, February 19, 2026 · 46 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on February 18, 2026

Summary

The city council meeting discussed road damage and construction projects, including the Verner's Estates and Bloomfield Village Green projects, and explored options for road rehabilitation and maintenance.

  • The city council approved minutes and updates on road damage and construction projects.
  • Bid letting for the Verner's Estates and Bloomfield Village Green projects is scheduled for April.
  • Roads are expected to experience frost freeze heave due to cold temperatures.
  • The city council discussed road repair methods, including edge drain trenches and SADs, to improve road conditions and reduce costs.
  • A committee was formed to research and report on road and deer issues with a focus on objective and quantitative analysis.

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Topics

Transcript

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  1. um quorum so we can we can run the meeting uh first thing is the approval of the minutes from february 4th anybody have any changes any anything to say about that motion to approve move to approve or moving supported all those in favor aye opposed okay uh first on the agenda mr hasler mesler i'm sorry right we're gonna the update on on um what's being done what road winter damage etc so come to the podium i think it's being recorded so we need to hear hear that and currently we have uh burners estates the sad project right now it's out for uh bid um the bids are due march 3rd so we have uh last i checked this morning there was four or five uh bidders that have uh pulled plans plan holders at this point so we're hopeful that we have a few more um and then we'll see where we're at with uh with how the bids come in and moving forward with verner's estates so um bloomfield village green we're moving forward with that the road commission is currently in the design process um preparing the final plans for the bid letting there's actually the final plans are to go on the shelf March 10th. And then I wanna say, what is it? I think it's April, beginning of April is the actual bid letting for that. So we're hopeful that that stays on track at this point. I know there's quite a bit of profiles that need to be done from the road commission's consultant and et cetera, et cetera. I haven't seen the plans nor the proposal book yet to review it. So hopeful to get that at least a week ahead of the plans going on the shelf. So that's where that stands at this point. I know there has been some contractors that have expressed interest in bidding that project. So they reached out and was inquiring as to when that bid letting was gonna be. So hopefully this time around, we have more than just Cadillac like Bitton, Bloomfield Village Green. So that being said, obviously we're into

  2. moving forward with verner's estates so um bloomfield village green we're moving forward with that the road commission is currently in the design process um preparing the final plans for the bid letting there's actually the final plans are to go on the shelf March 10th. And then I wanna say, what is it? I think it's April, beginning of April is the actual bid letting for that. So we're hopeful that that stays on track at this point. I know there's quite a bit of profiles that need to be done from the road commission's consultant and et cetera, et cetera. I haven't seen the plans nor the proposal book yet to review it. So hopeful to get that at least a week ahead of the plans going on the shelf. So that's where that stands at this point. I know there has been some contractors that have expressed interest in bidding that project. So they reached out and was inquiring as to when that bid letting was gonna be. So hopefully this time around, we have more than just Cadillac like Bitton, Bloomfield Village Green. So that being said, obviously we're into the frost freeze effects here as of the last week. So I'm sure that residents everywhere throughout the county, throughout the state are gonna be noticing that the roads are definitely starting to frost freeze heave. I haven't noticed it yet in driving around. But I would suspect with the weather temperatures that we have, that we're gonna start seeing the frost come out from underneath the road. So. I am sure we've got reservations on it. For a solo, yeah. Sounds like he's part of it. a good indication of that is you know the roads are going to dry out here and then all the cracks and stuff you'll slowly see the water kind of migrating to the top and relieving itself so if you're not familiar with the frost freeze cycles happens is the road ends up freezing at whatever depth it does and as it thaws during the course of the winter it raises up when it freezes and then it comes back down when it thaws so that's what they talk about a frost freeze cycle is it comes up and it comes down it comes up and it comes down we haven't experienced a lot of those cycles this year like we have in past years because of the cold temperatures i would expect going forward that we're probably going to see those cycles increase tremendously so i know i

  3. So that being said, obviously we're into the frost freeze effects here as of the last week. So I'm sure that residents everywhere throughout the county, throughout the state are gonna be noticing that the roads are definitely starting to frost freeze heave. I haven't noticed it yet in driving around. But I would suspect with the weather temperatures that we have, that we're gonna start seeing the frost come out from underneath the road. So. I am sure we've got reservations on it. For a solo, yeah. Sounds like he's part of it. a good indication of that is you know the roads are going to dry out here and then all the cracks and stuff you'll slowly see the water kind of migrating to the top and relieving itself so if you're not familiar with the frost freeze cycles happens is the road ends up freezing at whatever depth it does and as it thaws during the course of the winter it raises up when it freezes and then it comes back down when it thaws so that's what they talk about a frost freeze cycle is it comes up and it comes down it comes up and it comes down we haven't experienced a lot of those cycles this year like we have in past years because of the cold temperatures i would expect going forward that we're probably going to see those cycles increase tremendously so i know i looked at the long range and at night we're getting down in 20s but we're still up into the mid 30s low 40s during the day so um i would expect that on the main road subdivision roads culverts everything's going to start reflecting that and that's why asphalt roads crack because sooner or later even though asphalt is flexible and it takes numerous cycles sooner or later something's got to give with all that movement so um so i would expect that like i said uh phones will probably be ringing off of the hook probably here with concerns and definitely over at the road commission with concerns in regards to the roads So, with that being said, that's why I know there's a lot of residents through the course of the SAD projects. I guess I should give you a little background if you're not familiar with myself. I worked at the Road Commission for 35 years. For 20 of those years, I was actually overseeing the SAD projects throughout the county, designing them and overseeing the construction of them. So, I recently retired as of May 1st and then came on board with Bloomfield Township as a consultant for their SADs.

  4. going forward that we're probably going to see those cycles increase tremendously so i know i looked at the long range and at night we're getting down in 20s but we're still up into the mid 30s low 40s during the day so um i would expect that on the main road subdivision roads culverts everything's going to start reflecting that and that's why asphalt roads crack because sooner or later even though asphalt is flexible and it takes numerous cycles sooner or later something's got to give with all that movement so um so i would expect that like i said uh phones will probably be ringing off of the hook probably here with concerns and definitely over at the road commission with concerns in regards to the roads So, with that being said, that's why I know there's a lot of residents through the course of the SAD projects. I guess I should give you a little background if you're not familiar with myself. I worked at the Road Commission for 35 years. For 20 of those years, I was actually overseeing the SAD projects throughout the county, designing them and overseeing the construction of them. So, I recently retired as of May 1st and then came on board with Bloomfield Township as a consultant for their SADs. So, that being said, I'm very familiar with the Bloomfield Village projects. I designed them all. So, I should say myself and my staff. The frost freeze effects, like I said, it comes up, it comes down. You know, the roads are all over the place. So, it's kind of, if you have any questions in regards to that, I will say, kind of getting back to where I was, design-wise, that's why we design underdrain. So, with the Bloomfield Village projects, there was a lot of questions about, well, why do we have to dig that trench under the curb and put that edge drain in and et cetera, et cetera. Whenever we have curb and gutter, we put edge drain in because when we construct the road, we actually construct the road in the subgrade. We put the crown in it. Then, when we add aggregate to it, we duplicate. Okay. that crown, and then the asphalt, the first lift to asphalt duplicates that, and then the second lift and final lift to asphalt duplicates that. So the other thing is a lot of people don't realize that HMA is actually permeable. Water will actually penetrate through asphalts.

  5. So, I recently retired as of May 1st and then came on board with Bloomfield Township as a consultant for their SADs. So, that being said, I'm very familiar with the Bloomfield Village projects. I designed them all. So, I should say myself and my staff. The frost freeze effects, like I said, it comes up, it comes down. You know, the roads are all over the place. So, it's kind of, if you have any questions in regards to that, I will say, kind of getting back to where I was, design-wise, that's why we design underdrain. So, with the Bloomfield Village projects, there was a lot of questions about, well, why do we have to dig that trench under the curb and put that edge drain in and et cetera, et cetera. Whenever we have curb and gutter, we put edge drain in because when we construct the road, we actually construct the road in the subgrade. We put the crown in it. Then, when we add aggregate to it, we duplicate. Okay. that crown, and then the asphalt, the first lift to asphalt duplicates that, and then the second lift and final lift to asphalt duplicates that. So the other thing is a lot of people don't realize that HMA is actually permeable. Water will actually penetrate through asphalts. So when it does migrate down, even without a crack or if the road does crack, it gets into the subgrades, and the subgrades are shaped to push that water over to the edge drain trench. To keep the subgrades dry, which helps eliminate a tremendous amount of that frost-free cycle because the moisture is not in those subgrades to allow it to do that. So kind of the reason that we do put the edge drain trench in. The other thing that the edge drain trench does, as much as everybody loves their sprinkler systems, it's absolutely horrendous for the roadbed because then you're getting all that water coming from the outside of the road trying to push into the subgrades. The edge drain trench eliminates that. So it's the path of least resistance, and it collects all the water and then takes it into the storm systems and disperses it at that point. I just want to add, are you also involved in the other aspects of the milling and overlaying certain areas of the, um, that, that road repair, that kind of road repair for the township? No. Just, just the SADs? Not currently. Okay, got it, alright. I'll get my, my rules.

  6. Water will actually penetrate through asphalts. So when it does migrate down, even without a crack or if the road does crack, it gets into the subgrades, and the subgrades are shaped to push that water over to the edge drain trench. To keep the subgrades dry, which helps eliminate a tremendous amount of that frost-free cycle because the moisture is not in those subgrades to allow it to do that. So kind of the reason that we do put the edge drain trench in. The other thing that the edge drain trench does, as much as everybody loves their sprinkler systems, it's absolutely horrendous for the roadbed because then you're getting all that water coming from the outside of the road trying to push into the subgrades. The edge drain trench eliminates that. So it's the path of least resistance, and it collects all the water and then takes it into the storm systems and disperses it at that point. I just want to add, are you also involved in the other aspects of the milling and overlaying certain areas of the, um, that, that road repair, that kind of road repair for the township? No. Just, just the SADs? Not currently. Okay, got it, alright. I'll get my, my rules. currently is coming in and we'll say that the township is looking at doing some of their own SADs in-house which is something that we're kind of looking at at this point so we do have one project that we've somewhat designed and looking forward to moving forward with that we feel that there's probably some better options than just a full rehabilitation system so the Road Commission requires a full rehabilitation no matter what township is kind of looking at how can we do something different maybe not the Cadillac or the best of the best but something in between and working closer with the residents which I think is absolutely promising the Road Commission process the residents really don't have a say in what's designed or how it's designed or what they're really looking for it's just automatically a full rehabilitation so I think there's some other options out there that maybe are financially a little more friendly and

  7. currently is coming in and we'll say that the township is looking at doing some of their own SADs in-house which is something that we're kind of looking at at this point so we do have one project that we've somewhat designed and looking forward to moving forward with that we feel that there's probably some better options than just a full rehabilitation system so the Road Commission requires a full rehabilitation no matter what township is kind of looking at how can we do something different maybe not the Cadillac or the best of the best but something in between and working closer with the residents which I think is absolutely promising the Road Commission process the residents really don't have a say in what's designed or how it's designed or what they're really looking for it's just automatically a full rehabilitation so I think there's some other options out there that maybe are financially a little more friendly and for the residents so I know some of the projects even some of the big major projects we've done mill and overlay two inches of three whatever it is taken off the top and then asphalt doesn't last as long maybe but it lasts a long time Yeah. As part of my position with the road commission when I was there overseeing the SADs, I hosted all the night meetings and everything else, right? And like I told Reza, you know, those are band-aids. There's no if, ands, or buts about it. The road commission does that because it buys them potentially three to five years to obtain additional funds to be able to go in and, you know, do a full rehabilitation. So, you know, overlays are great. I always refer back to, we did a, the road commission did an overlay on Walnut Lake Road in front of West Bloomfield offices. I went through there and the next morning I went through there and it was already reflective cracking. So, if you're not familiar with reflective cracking, no matter what you do to the road, if you don't take it out, if there's a crack in the road or a saw cut in the road or whatever it might be, that is going to reflective crack up through the surface.

  8. other options out there that maybe are financially a little more friendly and for the residents so I know some of the projects even some of the big major projects we've done mill and overlay two inches of three whatever it is taken off the top and then asphalt doesn't last as long maybe but it lasts a long time Yeah. As part of my position with the road commission when I was there overseeing the SADs, I hosted all the night meetings and everything else, right? And like I told Reza, you know, those are band-aids. There's no if, ands, or buts about it. The road commission does that because it buys them potentially three to five years to obtain additional funds to be able to go in and, you know, do a full rehabilitation. So, you know, overlays are great. I always refer back to, we did a, the road commission did an overlay on Walnut Lake Road in front of West Bloomfield offices. I went through there and the next morning I went through there and it was already reflective cracking. So, if you're not familiar with reflective cracking, no matter what you do to the road, if you don't take it out, if there's a crack in the road or a saw cut in the road or whatever it might be, that is going to reflective crack up through the surface. So, when they do overlays, even though they come in and they mill at the curb line and there's cracks or whatever there is, that crack is eventually going to migrate up. And it doesn't matter if you put two inches on it, you put eight inches on it, whatever it is, that crack is going to migrate up to the surface and just reappear. Could I please backtrack to the bidding process? And once the bid is left. how long do potential bidders have time I mean how long is the process what the Road Commission does is they use bid Express now it's all electronic it's three weeks so once it goes on the shelf and is put out to bid the bid letting is three weeks after it goes out for the contractors like mark I sent you a photo Mindy had sent to me and that was in the new gold section I believe was it gold and it looked like a whole chunk of asphalt had come out and we need to get you the address but is that because of workmanship or is that weather or combination yeah so I saw the picture the picture wasn't clear as you and I

  9. So, if you're not familiar with reflective cracking, no matter what you do to the road, if you don't take it out, if there's a crack in the road or a saw cut in the road or whatever it might be, that is going to reflective crack up through the surface. So, when they do overlays, even though they come in and they mill at the curb line and there's cracks or whatever there is, that crack is eventually going to migrate up. And it doesn't matter if you put two inches on it, you put eight inches on it, whatever it is, that crack is going to migrate up to the surface and just reappear. Could I please backtrack to the bidding process? And once the bid is left. how long do potential bidders have time I mean how long is the process what the Road Commission does is they use bid Express now it's all electronic it's three weeks so once it goes on the shelf and is put out to bid the bid letting is three weeks after it goes out for the contractors like mark I sent you a photo Mindy had sent to me and that was in the new gold section I believe was it gold and it looked like a whole chunk of asphalt had come out and we need to get you the address but is that because of workmanship or is that weather or combination yeah so I saw the picture the picture wasn't clear as you and I discussed right if I get an address Mindy that would be great I did pre prior to coming over here I drove all of gold and I drove all of yellow and I and I didn't see anything and I drove it slow but that's not to say that I missed something I will tell you what tends to happen is is part of the process it's just not here you know it's whenever we do a subdivision and you have curb and gutter there's what we call a positive drip and what happens is is the curb faces here the concrete curb faces here And when we pave the road, we intentionally pave the road higher than the curb. And the reason that we do that is because then the water flows off and it falls onto the concrete, not down through the joint. It falls onto the concrete, which then gets it in the gutter and takes it to the storm systems. A lot of times when we do that, because there is nothing to hold the asphalt in place, when the roller goes over it, it pushes it out over that edge.

  10. combination yeah so I saw the picture the picture wasn't clear as you and I discussed right if I get an address Mindy that would be great I did pre prior to coming over here I drove all of gold and I drove all of yellow and I and I didn't see anything and I drove it slow but that's not to say that I missed something I will tell you what tends to happen is is part of the process it's just not here you know it's whenever we do a subdivision and you have curb and gutter there's what we call a positive drip and what happens is is the curb faces here the concrete curb faces here And when we pave the road, we intentionally pave the road higher than the curb. And the reason that we do that is because then the water flows off and it falls onto the concrete, not down through the joint. It falls onto the concrete, which then gets it in the gutter and takes it to the storm systems. A lot of times when we do that, because there is nothing to hold the asphalt in place, when the roller goes over it, it pushes it out over that edge. And then you have that crack that's there, or the joint that's there between the concrete and the asphalt, and it relieves itself, and then you get pieces of asphalt spread out for however long it may take before it relieves all those edges. And the reason for a positive drip that we want the water to fall off onto the curb is obviously we don't want the water to get down into that joint to the subgrades, even though we tack it. So the bonding agent that we use between the HMA layers, it's like a glue, but it is not designed to be a bonding agent between concrete and asphalt. There is no bonding agent currently that actually will seal that joint that takes place there. So that's why we pave and spec reads eight to a quarter inch is what spec reads for a positive. drip so that may be the case Mike I can't say until I get an address to look at it and so did you drive will you drive around red and blue also and check that because I know we're getting close to doing credits back to those homeowners

  11. when the roller goes over it, it pushes it out over that edge. And then you have that crack that's there, or the joint that's there between the concrete and the asphalt, and it relieves itself, and then you get pieces of asphalt spread out for however long it may take before it relieves all those edges. And the reason for a positive drip that we want the water to fall off onto the curb is obviously we don't want the water to get down into that joint to the subgrades, even though we tack it. So the bonding agent that we use between the HMA layers, it's like a glue, but it is not designed to be a bonding agent between concrete and asphalt. There is no bonding agent currently that actually will seal that joint that takes place there. So that's why we pave and spec reads eight to a quarter inch is what spec reads for a positive. drip so that may be the case Mike I can't say until I get an address to look at it and so did you drive will you drive around red and blue also and check that because I know we're getting close to doing credits back to those homeowners yep we're getting real close I can do that here in the next day or so thank you so could I ask a question yeah okay I don't know where that came from but I received several photos so I just picked one I mean not even though I just chose one to send it your expertise now being here in this building with Mike is a huge value I think really it is it's huge and here's my question I don't know if I can even articulate that but it would be great for the residents to understand that you're here and what your value is and I don't know mark because of the odd relationship between in Bloomfield Village leadership of the HOA and the residents the residents don't view on Moss don't view the leadership of the HOA as resourceful I'm not I'm just saying that's the view and so I'm not looking for and I'm happy to share the feedback but I'm not soliciting feedback what should I do with more feedback if there is more direct them to the agent I'm just worried that if it goes let me that goes to the HOA leadership

  12. that because I know we're getting close to doing credits back to those homeowners yep we're getting real close I can do that here in the next day or so thank you so could I ask a question yeah okay I don't know where that came from but I received several photos so I just picked one I mean not even though I just chose one to send it your expertise now being here in this building with Mike is a huge value I think really it is it's huge and here's my question I don't know if I can even articulate that but it would be great for the residents to understand that you're here and what your value is and I don't know mark because of the odd relationship between in Bloomfield Village leadership of the HOA and the residents the residents don't view on Moss don't view the leadership of the HOA as resourceful I'm not I'm just saying that's the view and so I'm not looking for and I'm happy to share the feedback but I'm not soliciting feedback what should I do with more feedback if there is more direct them to the agent I'm just worried that if it goes let me that goes to the HOA leadership If that doesn't go well, it's not a solution, but you are a solution, but I'm also not putting you on the spot to be a solution if that's not what you should. That is 100% my role, so I attend all of the weekly meetings. I'm the liaison between the township and the road commission. Also the liaison between the residents and the road commission or the project. Directly? Directly. So I actually appreciate it when I hear from the residents so that I can bring their concerns forward, so I can evaluate them, I should say, first, and then I bring them forward to the road commission and the project engineer and find remedy with the road commission as to how we can look at potentially resolving a resident's issue if it's legitimate. Great. Thank you for that. So I'm more than happy to share my email, my phone number, so that that can be distributed. Well, if somebody just calls the township and asks for you, would you get the call? The township has my contact information, but I do not have a direct number here at the township. So they can ask for that contact? Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I'm more than happy to provide it. So, you know, I can give you my email, get it to Mike or get it to Jeff or whatever,

  13. If that doesn't go well, it's not a solution, but you are a solution, but I'm also not putting you on the spot to be a solution if that's not what you should. That is 100% my role, so I attend all of the weekly meetings. I'm the liaison between the township and the road commission. Also the liaison between the residents and the road commission or the project. Directly? Directly. So I actually appreciate it when I hear from the residents so that I can bring their concerns forward, so I can evaluate them, I should say, first, and then I bring them forward to the road commission and the project engineer and find remedy with the road commission as to how we can look at potentially resolving a resident's issue if it's legitimate. Great. Thank you for that. So I'm more than happy to share my email, my phone number, so that that can be distributed. Well, if somebody just calls the township and asks for you, would you get the call? The township has my contact information, but I do not have a direct number here at the township. So they can ask for that contact? Yeah, absolutely. And like I said, I'm more than happy to provide it. So, you know, I can give you my email, get it to Mike or get it to Jeff or whatever, and he can distribute it. You know, we as the township are looking to maybe have a closer... relationship with the residents when it comes to the SADs, because I think there's value, and I know the township knows, feels that there's value to have closer communication with the residents in regards to the SADs. I think that would be terrific. I want to ask, go back again to that. SAD, you said the township is looking to do the SADs in-house? They're looking to do some, some at this point, and Mike can probably speak a little more to that, but at this point, they're guinea-pigging some projects to look at what we can do to bring a more financial-friendly scenario to the residents and involve the residents more, right? So, you know, like I said, I was there for 20-some years and, you know, at the Road Commission. Once we, once the residents met that criteria, they didn't hear back from us until we had a full design done and et cetera, et cetera. And the reason for that was is because there really is no

  14. So, you know, I can give you my email, get it to Mike or get it to Jeff or whatever, and he can distribute it. You know, we as the township are looking to maybe have a closer... relationship with the residents when it comes to the SADs, because I think there's value, and I know the township knows, feels that there's value to have closer communication with the residents in regards to the SADs. I think that would be terrific. I want to ask, go back again to that. SAD, you said the township is looking to do the SADs in-house? They're looking to do some, some at this point, and Mike can probably speak a little more to that, but at this point, they're guinea-pigging some projects to look at what we can do to bring a more financial-friendly scenario to the residents and involve the residents more, right? So, you know, like I said, I was there for 20-some years and, you know, at the Road Commission. Once we, once the residents met that criteria, they didn't hear back from us until we had a full design done and et cetera, et cetera. And the reason for that was is because there really is no options, right? It's a full rehabilitation. So, not every project out there is going to be able to not participate in a full rehabilitation, but there may be, you know, some projects out there that we can do mill and fills and et cetera, et cetera, as long as the residents, and we communicate this, and we take feedback from the residents, but we communicate this to the residents that, you know, this is not a 30-year or a 40-year a year life expectancy right so but the point though is that um if if the residents are happy and say okay you've done some mill and overlay in our subdivision that looks great and it lasted for quite a long time we would be happy to pay a certain amount much less than a full you know but with an sad through the township for a lower to do a mill and overlay over the whole subdivision it's part of what so now we could do that perhaps perhaps it's it's in the township it's in the vision right it's it's in the conversation it's part of what we're guinea pigging at this point um you know born lane is our first project it's a it's actually a gravel pave so uh it's right on the

  15. And the reason for that was is because there really is no options, right? It's a full rehabilitation. So, not every project out there is going to be able to not participate in a full rehabilitation, but there may be, you know, some projects out there that we can do mill and fills and et cetera, et cetera, as long as the residents, and we communicate this, and we take feedback from the residents, but we communicate this to the residents that, you know, this is not a 30-year or a 40-year a year life expectancy right so but the point though is that um if if the residents are happy and say okay you've done some mill and overlay in our subdivision that looks great and it lasted for quite a long time we would be happy to pay a certain amount much less than a full you know but with an sad through the township for a lower to do a mill and overlay over the whole subdivision it's part of what so now we could do that perhaps perhaps it's it's in the township it's in the vision right it's it's in the conversation it's part of what we're guinea pigging at this point um you know born lane is our first project it's a it's actually a gravel pave so uh it's right on the outskirts of bloomfield village um they reached out and we did a quick design with that and et cetera et cetera and the township's working through policy things and things of that nature at this point but the township is looking to help the residents and potentially make some projects a little more financially friendly but the roads are owned by the road commission correct so you're what i guess i'm hearing is the road commission is now showing flexibility to the road commission's not so i'm sorry how do you work through it when an essay when an sad is done um and this is even if it goes through the town or the road commission's project So this was always part of my night meeting that, you know, went for two and a half hours explaining the process and what's going to happen and et cetera, et cetera, which we're also looking to institute as part of this new where we're educating the residents up front and then we're moving forward with the project so everybody has a better understanding of what's going to take place. With that being said, even with the road commission process, the residents have the right to pull a permit through the permit department, design something, obtain a permit from the road commission, and then build it accordingly.

  16. um you know born lane is our first project it's a it's actually a gravel pave so uh it's right on the outskirts of bloomfield village um they reached out and we did a quick design with that and et cetera et cetera and the township's working through policy things and things of that nature at this point but the township is looking to help the residents and potentially make some projects a little more financially friendly but the roads are owned by the road commission correct so you're what i guess i'm hearing is the road commission is now showing flexibility to the road commission's not so i'm sorry how do you work through it when an essay when an sad is done um and this is even if it goes through the town or the road commission's project So this was always part of my night meeting that, you know, went for two and a half hours explaining the process and what's going to happen and et cetera, et cetera, which we're also looking to institute as part of this new where we're educating the residents up front and then we're moving forward with the project so everybody has a better understanding of what's going to take place. With that being said, even with the road commission process, the residents have the right to pull a permit through the permit department, design something, obtain a permit from the road commission, and then build it accordingly. So it's not, even though it's their roads, the road commission does not say that you have to go through our process and solely through our process. You have the ability to pull a permit and hire your own contractor, et cetera, et cetera, and that's basically what Bloomfield Township program will look like is we'll actually obtain a permit from the road commission and then we'll move forward with the construction and et cetera, et cetera themselves. So if I understand what you're saying is if you went through that permit pull process and do it, and the road commission can't come in and veto it. So the efforts you could proceed, they're not sitting there at the last minute and saying, thanks for all your work, but we're still going to veto it. This is a way of, yes, when you obtain a permit and I will also say, uh, you know, kudos to the road commission, um, Gary Petrovich has made a, uh, stance that they're not charging permit fees for subdivisions that are going through the permit process so um hopefully that continues in the future but uh that has historically been the case here in the last couple of years i know it raises the next question so if you go through

  17. With that being said, even with the road commission process, the residents have the right to pull a permit through the permit department, design something, obtain a permit from the road commission, and then build it accordingly. So it's not, even though it's their roads, the road commission does not say that you have to go through our process and solely through our process. You have the ability to pull a permit and hire your own contractor, et cetera, et cetera, and that's basically what Bloomfield Township program will look like is we'll actually obtain a permit from the road commission and then we'll move forward with the construction and et cetera, et cetera themselves. So if I understand what you're saying is if you went through that permit pull process and do it, and the road commission can't come in and veto it. So the efforts you could proceed, they're not sitting there at the last minute and saying, thanks for all your work, but we're still going to veto it. This is a way of, yes, when you obtain a permit and I will also say, uh, you know, kudos to the road commission, um, Gary Petrovich has made a, uh, stance that they're not charging permit fees for subdivisions that are going through the permit process so um hopefully that continues in the future but uh that has historically been the case here in the last couple of years i know it raises the next question so if you go through the alternative percentage-wise i mean how much difference are you talking about if at the at the uh village you know it's fifty thousand dollars a house so is this like half that price and i want to kind of be clear because the village it's important to understand that bloomfield village is unique as unique comes in the sad process okay bloomfield village there was no alternative but to do a full rehabilitation and the reason for that is bloomfield village had been overlaid so many times that there was actually a curb and gutter there that you could not see okay therefore the road wasn't draining properly right the road commission went through hiring a consultant to run profiles and do a full topo so that we could design the curb and the grades to get the water to run so we didn't have bird baths and ponding and everything else like they did with the overlay process when the township came in and overlaid it they had no grade control or anything of that nature and as they kept building overlays and overlays and overlays all of a sudden the curb and gutter was gone so i want to be clear that

  18. case here in the last couple of years i know it raises the next question so if you go through the alternative percentage-wise i mean how much difference are you talking about if at the at the uh village you know it's fifty thousand dollars a house so is this like half that price and i want to kind of be clear because the village it's important to understand that bloomfield village is unique as unique comes in the sad process okay bloomfield village there was no alternative but to do a full rehabilitation and the reason for that is bloomfield village had been overlaid so many times that there was actually a curb and gutter there that you could not see okay therefore the road wasn't draining properly right the road commission went through hiring a consultant to run profiles and do a full topo so that we could design the curb and the grades to get the water to run so we didn't have bird baths and ponding and everything else like they did with the overlay process when the township came in and overlaid it they had no grade control or anything of that nature and as they kept building overlays and overlays and overlays all of a sudden the curb and gutter was gone so i want to be clear that bloomfield village and there's going to be other projects that there is no alternative option a full rehabilitation is the only option right but there's also projects out there that potentially could benefit from doing something different than a full rehabilitation this is just orders of magnitude and i'm holding you i'm just trying to get concept but if they would not go to the full rehab is that roughly half what a rehab project project would be it's hard to say i'm going to say somewhere probably uh 25 to 50 percent less going going through something of that nature again that's real rough estimates you know it's when people wanted to know what average assessments were at the road commission or what assessments were when i was there we gave them a range between 12 000 and you know 35 000 because every job is actually really really unique to itself which is what always actually was uh intriguing to me as a designer in the sad projects so last year we were told that the average cost for rehabilitation

  19. bloomfield village and there's going to be other projects that there is no alternative option a full rehabilitation is the only option right but there's also projects out there that potentially could benefit from doing something different than a full rehabilitation this is just orders of magnitude and i'm holding you i'm just trying to get concept but if they would not go to the full rehab is that roughly half what a rehab project project would be it's hard to say i'm going to say somewhere probably uh 25 to 50 percent less going going through something of that nature again that's real rough estimates you know it's when people wanted to know what average assessments were at the road commission or what assessments were when i was there we gave them a range between 12 000 and you know 35 000 because every job is actually really really unique to itself which is what always actually was uh intriguing to me as a designer in the sad projects so last year we were told that the average cost for rehabilitation location in townships in oakland county was a million dollars a mile and that's an average do you have a figure for 26 or no is it yeah I would say that it would be very hard to put a number on that and again it's because of the uniqueness of every subdivision right you have open-ditch subdivisions and kind of clarify we talked about the edge drain right open-ditch subdivisions so we built those that we actually build them in steps or subgrade comes out here and then we step in the aggregate and then we step in the leveling course and then we step in so there's actually a tier ladder effect and the reason for that is and everything is crowned and again the reason for that is is any water gets into the subgrades or through the layers or whatever it has outlet to the face of the ditches so we start with just above the bottom of the ditch and then we build it up and that's actually how we create the front slope of a ditch in an open ditch so with that being said you know I never put a mile figure

  20. last year we were told that the average cost for rehabilitation location in townships in oakland county was a million dollars a mile and that's an average do you have a figure for 26 or no is it yeah I would say that it would be very hard to put a number on that and again it's because of the uniqueness of every subdivision right you have open-ditch subdivisions and kind of clarify we talked about the edge drain right open-ditch subdivisions so we built those that we actually build them in steps or subgrade comes out here and then we step in the aggregate and then we step in the leveling course and then we step in so there's actually a tier ladder effect and the reason for that is and everything is crowned and again the reason for that is is any water gets into the subgrades or through the layers or whatever it has outlet to the face of the ditches so we start with just above the bottom of the ditch and then we build it up and that's actually how we create the front slope of a ditch in an open ditch so with that being said you know I never put a mile figure on it because you have jobs that are have so like Verner Estates right Verner Estates has curb and gutter in it we're doing FDR in the curb and gutter section and then we have probably three-quarters of it five eights of it that's open ditch right so how do you really relate all of that and then you got open ditch job you know so really it's we based off of what assessments were. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Thank you so much. It was very informative. Nobody else has any questions, so I guess any other. My other comment. Oh, sorry. My other comment is this is extremely encouraging to see that the Township is looking at alternative ways and being creative and with your expertise and help. I think that's a great message and Mike, you should be commended for doing that. Our team working on this and with Mark on board, it's a game changer. Yeah, it is. And you know, we're getting ready now. We're trying to finish up red and blue to get the credits back to the community there. And Mark's helped us with it. And Mike, our treasurer, are running the numbers. And the credit's coming back. We're not sure,

  21. the front slope of a ditch in an open ditch so with that being said you know I never put a mile figure on it because you have jobs that are have so like Verner Estates right Verner Estates has curb and gutter in it we're doing FDR in the curb and gutter section and then we have probably three-quarters of it five eights of it that's open ditch right so how do you really relate all of that and then you got open ditch job you know so really it's we based off of what assessments were. Thank you. Okay, thanks. Thank you so much. It was very informative. Nobody else has any questions, so I guess any other. My other comment. Oh, sorry. My other comment is this is extremely encouraging to see that the Township is looking at alternative ways and being creative and with your expertise and help. I think that's a great message and Mike, you should be commended for doing that. Our team working on this and with Mark on board, it's a game changer. Yeah, it is. And you know, we're getting ready now. We're trying to finish up red and blue to get the credits back to the community there. And Mark's helped us with it. And Mike, our treasurer, are running the numbers. And the credit's coming back. We're not sure, but they look, they're going to be substantial, far more than what we thought. Great. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much. It's very informative. That's great. Yeah, we had talked about this when they did the big stretches of overways in Westchester. And I asked, we sat with Noah, said, well, what was the cost? What would cost the whole subdivision? You know, we could, that's terrific. Contact information. I'll email it to Mike. Yeah, and Sue has it. Sue has an email and phone number. And then you also saw our email that Haley Stevens has proposed the tax credits for us. And we'll go to the state as well. We'll take, I'll take, I'll take it to the tax. So. committees in a probes both the House and the Senate and see what kind of response we get but I don't know how long it could take to get into Washington and what could happen but and I think that the combined income is a little high on that but those things are all negotiated but if they put she put a $10,000 like our our property tax right people have to feel this across the country sure but on that whole thing that she proposed I was curious on the dollar cap if you look at the

  22. And Mike, our treasurer, are running the numbers. And the credit's coming back. We're not sure, but they look, they're going to be substantial, far more than what we thought. Great. Thank you. Okay, thank you so much. It's very informative. That's great. Yeah, we had talked about this when they did the big stretches of overways in Westchester. And I asked, we sat with Noah, said, well, what was the cost? What would cost the whole subdivision? You know, we could, that's terrific. Contact information. I'll email it to Mike. Yeah, and Sue has it. Sue has an email and phone number. And then you also saw our email that Haley Stevens has proposed the tax credits for us. And we'll go to the state as well. We'll take, I'll take, I'll take it to the tax. So. committees in a probes both the House and the Senate and see what kind of response we get but I don't know how long it could take to get into Washington and what could happen but and I think that the combined income is a little high on that but those things are all negotiated but if they put she put a $10,000 like our our property tax right people have to feel this across the country sure but on that whole thing that she proposed I was curious on the dollar cap if you look at the village for example about maybe one of our outliers in the big picture that income problem is not going to help us if we're doing we're trying to do something what was the reasoning or the rationale on what he had put an income cap yeah I can't answer that but those are things we'll get it you know when you propose a bill in the legislature it goes everybody's got a comment everybody wants changes and they have to find out if it's affordable to the country or to the state and then they'll start working through those things because I have found that this really affects seniors retirees but also we have first-time homeowners right and they're usually working very thin budgets so those income caps probably will go into the microscope by I suspect I think they put I can see the reason for putting a cap like that on politically you start letting people who have huge incomes deduct this stuff. You say, they don't need it. It's the low income people need, the middle income. I can see why they did it. If I understand, if I was in a city and they did the road improvements, say like Birmingham does, can those people deduct that as part of their tax, the full amount? Say that again, Jeff. If you're in the, like Birmingham does some

  23. sure but on that whole thing that she proposed I was curious on the dollar cap if you look at the village for example about maybe one of our outliers in the big picture that income problem is not going to help us if we're doing we're trying to do something what was the reasoning or the rationale on what he had put an income cap yeah I can't answer that but those are things we'll get it you know when you propose a bill in the legislature it goes everybody's got a comment everybody wants changes and they have to find out if it's affordable to the country or to the state and then they'll start working through those things because I have found that this really affects seniors retirees but also we have first-time homeowners right and they're usually working very thin budgets so those income caps probably will go into the microscope by I suspect I think they put I can see the reason for putting a cap like that on politically you start letting people who have huge incomes deduct this stuff. You say, they don't need it. It's the low income people need, the middle income. I can see why they did it. If I understand, if I was in a city and they did the road improvements, say like Birmingham does, can those people deduct that as part of their tax, the full amount? Say that again, Jeff. If you're in the, like Birmingham does some street improvements and they pass on some to them. They do. And so that person, that's part of his tax bill so he can deduct the whole amount. I believe they would. Yep. And the same with like the water lines that we did up at South Bloomfield Highlands. See, so I'm looking for consistency and equity. Right. And so if I was a city, I wouldn't have this issue. But because again, I'm the township at the back of the line. But cities do have this SAD issue as well. Yeah, but they're allowed to deduct the payment. That's my question. No. Now they're not. Even in the cities, they can't. I don't believe so. I thought it was through their tax bill. It probably would be on the tax bill, but it would be listed separately. Oh, I'd say SAD. Yeah, I believe. But don't quote me. You'd have to check with an accountant. I'd be curious to know whether that's, because my impression is on a city, they just roll it all into their general's tax. Yeah, but when you're capped at $10,000, with the way property taxes are these days, right? And if you're buying in new, you know, we see these property taxes come in, and we see people that have lived in their house for 50 years, and their property taxes are, say, $2,500 a year. The neighbor who just moved did, could be...

  24. tax, the full amount? Say that again, Jeff. If you're in the, like Birmingham does some street improvements and they pass on some to them. They do. And so that person, that's part of his tax bill so he can deduct the whole amount. I believe they would. Yep. And the same with like the water lines that we did up at South Bloomfield Highlands. See, so I'm looking for consistency and equity. Right. And so if I was a city, I wouldn't have this issue. But because again, I'm the township at the back of the line. But cities do have this SAD issue as well. Yeah, but they're allowed to deduct the payment. That's my question. No. Now they're not. Even in the cities, they can't. I don't believe so. I thought it was through their tax bill. It probably would be on the tax bill, but it would be listed separately. Oh, I'd say SAD. Yeah, I believe. But don't quote me. You'd have to check with an accountant. I'd be curious to know whether that's, because my impression is on a city, they just roll it all into their general's tax. Yeah, but when you're capped at $10,000, with the way property taxes are these days, right? And if you're buying in new, you know, we see these property taxes come in, and we see people that have lived in their house for 50 years, and their property taxes are, say, $2,500 a year. The neighbor who just moved did, could be... Well that's the beauty of Proposal A, isn't it? That if you're in your house for a long time... I don't know if I'd call it beauty, but... Well, because you don't have to sell it. Someone who's in there and lives there, all of a sudden the value is up, but they're not selling it. Their value is up, all of a sudden my tax... I have to move. I can't afford to pay the taxes. So that was the whole impetus for Proposal A. Now, when someone buys a new house, they're told right up front, this is what your taxes are going to be. Buy it or not, it's your choice. Curious on it. I think you're right. We should find out. Our discussion on city, township city thing, that could be something to look at, too. We'd like to know... Does it go through as an SAD or does it just go through as a part of the taxes? Right. That's a good question. All right, next item. Dear management, this subcommittee, I think what we want to talk about, Mike, do you want to talk about this, please? Yeah, sure. Gary's not here, but we had found that the road committee would get going on that subject and then we tried to shift gears and it was confusing. And we also had some people who wanted to volunteer to be on the committee, but just talk about deer. And so we got together

  25. Well that's the beauty of Proposal A, isn't it? That if you're in your house for a long time... I don't know if I'd call it beauty, but... Well, because you don't have to sell it. Someone who's in there and lives there, all of a sudden the value is up, but they're not selling it. Their value is up, all of a sudden my tax... I have to move. I can't afford to pay the taxes. So that was the whole impetus for Proposal A. Now, when someone buys a new house, they're told right up front, this is what your taxes are going to be. Buy it or not, it's your choice. Curious on it. I think you're right. We should find out. Our discussion on city, township city thing, that could be something to look at, too. We'd like to know... Does it go through as an SAD or does it just go through as a part of the taxes? Right. That's a good question. All right, next item. Dear management, this subcommittee, I think what we want to talk about, Mike, do you want to talk about this, please? Yeah, sure. Gary's not here, but we had found that the road committee would get going on that subject and then we tried to shift gears and it was confusing. And we also had some people who wanted to volunteer to be on the committee, but just talk about deer. And so we got together and Gary did some homework on it and really found out that University of Michigan in Ann Arbor has done extensive research on the deer situation where if they were to come in and you hire them, they'll come in at night. with drone suit you want to talk about this you know a little bit better than i do so it's it's actually part of the southeast michigan uh urban deer coalition and they're the ones that put together or work together with the university of michigan and they had biologists and ecologists and they did this whole study and this is that framework that they've developed so it's like a 30-page document it's not quite ready to be released but it talks about what you need to do and like you had said before do we really have a deer problem well we think we do but we have to prove it so there's a drone study there is a biologist study and so they have all of their you know and it was interesting how they showed the true damage to the ecology that these deer are doing these herds are doing and that there are actually native species that are now gone because of what they're doing so but we have to start by actually identifying do we have a deer problem so i've already actually we've started i met with our grant jose guzman who does our grant

  26. who wanted to volunteer to be on the committee, but just talk about deer. And so we got together and Gary did some homework on it and really found out that University of Michigan in Ann Arbor has done extensive research on the deer situation where if they were to come in and you hire them, they'll come in at night. with drone suit you want to talk about this you know a little bit better than i do so it's it's actually part of the southeast michigan uh urban deer coalition and they're the ones that put together or work together with the university of michigan and they had biologists and ecologists and they did this whole study and this is that framework that they've developed so it's like a 30-page document it's not quite ready to be released but it talks about what you need to do and like you had said before do we really have a deer problem well we think we do but we have to prove it so there's a drone study there is a biologist study and so they have all of their you know and it was interesting how they showed the true damage to the ecology that these deer are doing these herds are doing and that there are actually native species that are now gone because of what they're doing so but we have to start by actually identifying do we have a deer problem so i've already actually we've started i met with our grant jose guzman who does our grant writing so we're going to try and find grants to cover the cost because it's almost ten thousand like roughly ten thousand dollars to do this drone study so we're going to try and cover some of the costs of that but this is this is what we're looking at can you tell them how that drone study works so they actually go through and they they'll they'll go through the township and i guess they can they focus on areas where like there's heavy the heavy accidents so we feel that there's more of a population there and they have this, it's amazing the research that they've done. It's taken a couple years and they'll go through and determine how, you know, estimate how many deer we have per square mile. Then they go forward with that information. So it's a multiple tiered process to determine, so it's not just, oh, they're eating your hostas, let's go call, not at all. It's all kinds of information and data to go through and determine what the correct course of action, and if they're even if it's really a problem. So it's interesting. Is the drone just doing the body count or is it assessing damage even? They can also assess some of the damage. I don't know how it would work from night. I'm trying to get in touch with Brian Farmer

  27. problem so i've already actually we've started i met with our grant jose guzman who does our grant writing so we're going to try and find grants to cover the cost because it's almost ten thousand like roughly ten thousand dollars to do this drone study so we're going to try and cover some of the costs of that but this is this is what we're looking at can you tell them how that drone study works so they actually go through and they they'll they'll go through the township and i guess they can they focus on areas where like there's heavy the heavy accidents so we feel that there's more of a population there and they have this, it's amazing the research that they've done. It's taken a couple years and they'll go through and determine how, you know, estimate how many deer we have per square mile. Then they go forward with that information. So it's a multiple tiered process to determine, so it's not just, oh, they're eating your hostas, let's go call, not at all. It's all kinds of information and data to go through and determine what the correct course of action, and if they're even if it's really a problem. So it's interesting. Is the drone just doing the body count or is it assessing damage even? They can also assess some of the damage. I don't know how it would work from night. I'm trying to get in touch with Brian Farmer to get the information on that drone study, even to get an estimate cost for this grant. But I believe it's a body count. Yeah, it's more of a body count, but I think it's going to be more boots on the ground to determine the ecology part of it. Do you need to do both a deer study, or with a drone study and a biology study? I believe that's what this framework is suggesting. Yeah. And the charge for that's 10,000? We don't, that's what I'm trying to find out. We roughly, it's not cheap. Yeah, it's not cheap because they come out, yeah. So that's why you had also talked about possibly getting other communities to involve to try and defer the cost as well. But yeah, it was very extensive, the research they did. It was- really a nice presentation so we'll be on next so tell them about the deer committee that who so I think we at the meeting last week dr. Sarian Jeff and Mike and I met and I think since this is it's just too much of a distraction I think for the road committee that we've thought about just decided to maybe make it into a subcommittee so talking with the township attorney it is not subject to open meetings act if we have for a committee of four so there would be two staff people we don't count as part of that committee so be myself and there

  28. I'm trying to get in touch with Brian Farmer to get the information on that drone study, even to get an estimate cost for this grant. But I believe it's a body count. Yeah, it's more of a body count, but I think it's going to be more boots on the ground to determine the ecology part of it. Do you need to do both a deer study, or with a drone study and a biology study? I believe that's what this framework is suggesting. Yeah. And the charge for that's 10,000? We don't, that's what I'm trying to find out. We roughly, it's not cheap. Yeah, it's not cheap because they come out, yeah. So that's why you had also talked about possibly getting other communities to involve to try and defer the cost as well. But yeah, it was very extensive, the research they did. It was- really a nice presentation so we'll be on next so tell them about the deer committee that who so I think we at the meeting last week dr. Sarian Jeff and Mike and I met and I think since this is it's just too much of a distraction I think for the road committee that we've thought about just decided to maybe make it into a subcommittee so talking with the township attorney it is not subject to open meetings act if we have for a committee of four so there would be two staff people we don't count as part of that committee so be myself and there is a police officer that's agreed to help out Elliot Wilson but there's an officer that's interested would be dr. Sarian I believe John you agreed to be on that as well and then Lynn and in John Stratt as well so there that would be the committee of four and then they would report back to this committee you say John Shrove John Shrove okay good yeah sorry did I turn I probably pronounced it wrong I'm sorry and then Lynn Groth so then they would obviously do the research and then come back and report to you and then however it would be handled to take to the Board of Trustees so we would be making motions or saying let's do it let's not let's do this or that and I'm guessing yeah coming of a cooperative decision once they make their okay yeah that's good in communication with the some money you know taking the initiative yeah because it is I mean this is an important issue the roads but there are so many people that have an issue with the deer as well and it just felt like I think it's distracting from both topics so I think separating it probably makes sense but it's it's encouraging that you have a game plan and a way to do this and it's going to be done objectively and

  29. staff people we don't count as part of that committee so be myself and there is a police officer that's agreed to help out Elliot Wilson but there's an officer that's interested would be dr. Sarian I believe John you agreed to be on that as well and then Lynn and in John Stratt as well so there that would be the committee of four and then they would report back to this committee you say John Shrove John Shrove okay good yeah sorry did I turn I probably pronounced it wrong I'm sorry and then Lynn Groth so then they would obviously do the research and then come back and report to you and then however it would be handled to take to the Board of Trustees so we would be making motions or saying let's do it let's not let's do this or that and I'm guessing yeah coming of a cooperative decision once they make their okay yeah that's good in communication with the some money you know taking the initiative yeah because it is I mean this is an important issue the roads but there are so many people that have an issue with the deer as well and it just felt like I think it's distracting from both topics so I think separating it probably makes sense but it's it's encouraging that you have a game plan and a way to do this and it's going to be done objectively and quantitatively yeah it was really interesting so it's great there's a structure and everything so which gets us out of all this yeah and they even explain the timeline of how long and then maybe five years down the road you reevaluate and things like that so yeah I don't think you I think you said around 10,000 you said it's a lot of money I think it's well worth spending that well we have to see how much it is oh I'm sorry I'm so interested what you said I got a separate meeting agenda for that group four plus the staff well to the four people yeah yeah they'll have and then they'll come back to us and then in the meantime there is grant money out there and that's why we're going to try and great great that'd be terrific as well as we're still talking to the Road Commission about paying for some SADs and they're also they're looking at that Verner Estates right now so we're waiting to hear back of how much they're going to be able to contribute you know I think it's it's very important to get that official get a study or get official use somebody else's rather than just say you know just do it

  30. a game plan and a way to do this and it's going to be done objectively and quantitatively yeah it was really interesting so it's great there's a structure and everything so which gets us out of all this yeah and they even explain the timeline of how long and then maybe five years down the road you reevaluate and things like that so yeah I don't think you I think you said around 10,000 you said it's a lot of money I think it's well worth spending that well we have to see how much it is oh I'm sorry I'm so interested what you said I got a separate meeting agenda for that group four plus the staff well to the four people yeah yeah they'll have and then they'll come back to us and then in the meantime there is grant money out there and that's why we're going to try and great great that'd be terrific as well as we're still talking to the Road Commission about paying for some SADs and they're also they're looking at that Verner Estates right now so we're waiting to hear back of how much they're going to be able to contribute you know I think it's it's very important to get that official get a study or get official use somebody else's rather than just say you know just do it Last night, we had a subdivision meeting, Homeowner Association, and it was about 30 people, 20 people there, something like that, and I always refresh what we do with roads, and with a deer, and just bring it up and it's a committee report. And they all said, we don't need any studies, just come in my backyard. Well, but that's, it's so unscientific. Well, everybody's got a different opinion, right? You know, and those who say we don't, no, we don't want to do anything, you have to show them, yeah, here it is, and I think it's very good, I like that. Could I ask a couple questions? Who are the other people that you're putting on this other committee? It would be John, Dr. Osirio. Right, and then the other, isn't it? John Schott and Lynn Groff, they were the two that were all. I'm just asking, I don't remember. He got added to this group for a while. I see, okay. Yeah, and they weren't interested in talking about roads, they really just wanted to talk about deer, so they were like alternates to this. Are they pro-deer, anti-deer? Oh no, open-minded. They didn't offer an opinion. Well, okay, all right guys, I'm going to be asked these questions, that's why I'm asking, we don't know, I'll say we don't know. No. We don't know, okay. No, but we're going to take a scientific approach, and we want to hire the U of M, what's his name at U of M, the group, do you recall Sue? I don't recall.

  31. Last night, we had a subdivision meeting, Homeowner Association, and it was about 30 people, 20 people there, something like that, and I always refresh what we do with roads, and with a deer, and just bring it up and it's a committee report. And they all said, we don't need any studies, just come in my backyard. Well, but that's, it's so unscientific. Well, everybody's got a different opinion, right? You know, and those who say we don't, no, we don't want to do anything, you have to show them, yeah, here it is, and I think it's very good, I like that. Could I ask a couple questions? Who are the other people that you're putting on this other committee? It would be John, Dr. Osirio. Right, and then the other, isn't it? John Schott and Lynn Groff, they were the two that were all. I'm just asking, I don't remember. He got added to this group for a while. I see, okay. Yeah, and they weren't interested in talking about roads, they really just wanted to talk about deer, so they were like alternates to this. Are they pro-deer, anti-deer? Oh no, open-minded. They didn't offer an opinion. Well, okay, all right guys, I'm going to be asked these questions, that's why I'm asking, we don't know, I'll say we don't know. No. We don't know, okay. No, but we're going to take a scientific approach, and we want to hire the U of M, what's his name at U of M, the group, do you recall Sue? I don't recall. Yeah, Dr. Osirio did some great research on this, and the whole thing is going to be done, we'll do the drones, we'll do the boots on the ground, they can come back and tell us what they found, and it'll be actual real information, not just, I've got... five running through my backyard anecdotal right so does that so does this change them so does the mission statement not exist any longer for this group no i think oh sorry well we created two mission statements that way well one for roads and we create a mission statement for deer right right so does the mission do we still have a mission statement for the deer and that do you remember this you guys okay yeah so do is it we still operate with this yeah this is just a subcommittee okay i'm just asking for to report back to people that live in bloomfield village and then the other thing i would say since i have videos of deer and a lot of positive things coming through my phone the more that we get ahead of this about what we're doing how it's being done who's involved etc the better it will be ultimately over time okay so i would i would recommend strongly erring on the side of communication and over communication well you know mike you do a from the supervisor every so often i don't know how often you do it but i always get the an email

  32. I don't recall. Yeah, Dr. Osirio did some great research on this, and the whole thing is going to be done, we'll do the drones, we'll do the boots on the ground, they can come back and tell us what they found, and it'll be actual real information, not just, I've got... five running through my backyard anecdotal right so does that so does this change them so does the mission statement not exist any longer for this group no i think oh sorry well we created two mission statements that way well one for roads and we create a mission statement for deer right right so does the mission do we still have a mission statement for the deer and that do you remember this you guys okay yeah so do is it we still operate with this yeah this is just a subcommittee okay i'm just asking for to report back to people that live in bloomfield village and then the other thing i would say since i have videos of deer and a lot of positive things coming through my phone the more that we get ahead of this about what we're doing how it's being done who's involved etc the better it will be ultimately over time okay so i would i would recommend strongly erring on the side of communication and over communication well you know mike you do a from the supervisor every so often i don't know how often you do it but i always get the an email when it on there and a super summary yeah that's it so could could you include that yes did you catch that i think that that's part of the deer resource committee as well i think that we can keep updates or not the committee the resource page on the website i think we can constantly put updates on that i have had actually had residents call me wanting to be at least be at the meetings that the the subcommittee is having you So that's something that I think when we finally meet with the subcommittee to discuss as well, maybe putting those dates on the website, having it at the library or what have you. But I think that once we get this study, we can put something on the website explaining that these are the guidelines. We're following this was the group through University of Michigan then and who they were and explained who they are. I want to say it was like an eight to ten people panel of biologists, ecologists. I mean, it was a whole bunch of people, master's students, doctors. It was actually a very complete study. Dr. Osarian shared that with me. We've talked about it more than once. I just want to, you know, the more communication, the better it will cut down on follow-ups, on everything that you're all approached about over time.

  33. from the supervisor every so often i don't know how often you do it but i always get the an email when it on there and a super summary yeah that's it so could could you include that yes did you catch that i think that that's part of the deer resource committee as well i think that we can keep updates or not the committee the resource page on the website i think we can constantly put updates on that i have had actually had residents call me wanting to be at least be at the meetings that the the subcommittee is having you So that's something that I think when we finally meet with the subcommittee to discuss as well, maybe putting those dates on the website, having it at the library or what have you. But I think that once we get this study, we can put something on the website explaining that these are the guidelines. We're following this was the group through University of Michigan then and who they were and explained who they are. I want to say it was like an eight to ten people panel of biologists, ecologists. I mean, it was a whole bunch of people, master's students, doctors. It was actually a very complete study. Dr. Osarian shared that with me. We've talked about it more than once. I just want to, you know, the more communication, the better it will cut down on follow-ups, on everything that you're all approached about over time. Now, Minnie, if you have people that are calling you and bothering you about this, please forward. Well, I'm not complaining. No, no, but I'm saying forward them to me because I'm keeping a log of people that have strong opinions on either side. Or neutral. So have them contact me. You have my contact information. They can e-mail me. They're on the Dear Resource page. At the bottom, there is a contact thing where they can e-mail their thoughts in or if they have questions. So, yeah, either way. So it can take off your plate. Do you have a separate communication with the HOA leaders? No. Because what, this isn't gratuitous, what Jeff does, not all HOA leaders do. They don't distill what we do here. Or what we do here. the township's doing as a report out at their board meetings so communication doesn't happen well we also have we have a list of hoas but it's on the hoa to update their officers and contacts and we have some that's five six years that old that we they're not even the same people yeah i've talked to our community relations department and had i want hoses well we'll talk about yeah to get involved more with the hoa so we can take the messages back from

  34. on everything that you're all approached about over time. Now, Minnie, if you have people that are calling you and bothering you about this, please forward. Well, I'm not complaining. No, no, but I'm saying forward them to me because I'm keeping a log of people that have strong opinions on either side. Or neutral. So have them contact me. You have my contact information. They can e-mail me. They're on the Dear Resource page. At the bottom, there is a contact thing where they can e-mail their thoughts in or if they have questions. So, yeah, either way. So it can take off your plate. Do you have a separate communication with the HOA leaders? No. Because what, this isn't gratuitous, what Jeff does, not all HOA leaders do. They don't distill what we do here. Or what we do here. the township's doing as a report out at their board meetings so communication doesn't happen well we also have we have a list of hoas but it's on the hoa to update their officers and contacts and we have some that's five six years that old that we they're not even the same people yeah i've talked to our community relations department and had i want hoses well we'll talk about yeah to get involved more with the hoa so we can take the messages back from this meeting other meetings and meet with the hoas on a regular basis i think it would be helpful and can you do you i know you do a video um interview with somebody every time yep can you get somebody from that group maybe and talk about that on a video yeah sure yeah whenever it's convenient i think we get dr sarah sarah and he's done so much homework on it okay yeah whatever but at least to get a conversation so people can can see it right yeah but the idea to get an hoa is where we need to go i mean because we have like 70. right that's a potential communication all right okay good so we got that's the next is phase two documents um i don't know that there's much that has to be discussed on this we have the list of assignments you know the final list of who's doing what right i had a question on that with regards thanks i know i have it yeah see that's on this yes jeff i had a question yeah go ahead with regards like Item three, I rewatched the video of our meeting and it's Dr. Asarian and Fred. I did correct it, I put it off the wrong copy, I'm sorry. I'm thinking, oh, did I get something? No, I put it off the wrong copy. I did add Dr. Asarian to that.

  35. talk about yeah to get involved more with the hoa so we can take the messages back from this meeting other meetings and meet with the hoas on a regular basis i think it would be helpful and can you do you i know you do a video um interview with somebody every time yep can you get somebody from that group maybe and talk about that on a video yeah sure yeah whenever it's convenient i think we get dr sarah sarah and he's done so much homework on it okay yeah whatever but at least to get a conversation so people can can see it right yeah but the idea to get an hoa is where we need to go i mean because we have like 70. right that's a potential communication all right okay good so we got that's the next is phase two documents um i don't know that there's much that has to be discussed on this we have the list of assignments you know the final list of who's doing what right i had a question on that with regards thanks i know i have it yeah see that's on this yes jeff i had a question yeah go ahead with regards like Item three, I rewatched the video of our meeting and it's Dr. Asarian and Fred. I did correct it, I put it off the wrong copy, I'm sorry. I'm thinking, oh, did I get something? No, I put it off the wrong copy. I did add Dr. Asarian to that. Got it. Well, the one that was added is Jay Shaw you put. Yeah, but I added Dr. Asarian and the number three. Got it, okay. Did you add him or replace him? Me. On number three, wait. How do you replace him? Because I hadn't. I don't have money at all. You know that? I hadn't volunteered. I'll get rid of him. Okay. All right, so this is Dr. Asarian and Fred. Thank you for asking. So he's on three? Last one. Just the last one? Okay. I lost you. Where is Gary on? What number? Three. Number three. Number three. Okay, got it. The Senate corrected him tomorrow. Okay. Okay. Okay. So is there any other, I mean, is there any other discussion on who's doing what? We're getting started and, you know, we're going to meet tomorrow. And so I hope, you know, we'll get some done. And I got two other ones to meet with. So I hope everybody's starting to at least make contact. And so by the end of April, I think we said we'd like to have it done or something like that. Yep. Okay. Well, that's the long February. But there's a lot of work to do. All right. But this is good. If we can get a lot of it done. And of course, if it doesn't, we have to push it back.

  36. No, I put it off the wrong copy. I did add Dr. Asarian to that. Got it. Well, the one that was added is Jay Shaw you put. Yeah, but I added Dr. Asarian and the number three. Got it, okay. Did you add him or replace him? Me. On number three, wait. How do you replace him? Because I hadn't. I don't have money at all. You know that? I hadn't volunteered. I'll get rid of him. Okay. All right, so this is Dr. Asarian and Fred. Thank you for asking. So he's on three? Last one. Just the last one? Okay. I lost you. Where is Gary on? What number? Three. Number three. Number three. Okay, got it. The Senate corrected him tomorrow. Okay. Okay. Okay. So is there any other, I mean, is there any other discussion on who's doing what? We're getting started and, you know, we're going to meet tomorrow. And so I hope, you know, we'll get some done. And I got two other ones to meet with. So I hope everybody's starting to at least make contact. And so by the end of April, I think we said we'd like to have it done or something like that. Yep. Okay. Well, that's the long February. But there's a lot of work to do. All right. But this is good. If we can get a lot of it done. And of course, if it doesn't, we have to push it back. it's not the end of the world I'd like to get this done this spring and have a report to the to the Board of Trustees and say here we are we're done well we're done with the with this phase now it's up to you okay anything else on that subject all right then there's nobody here for public comment so we if anything on not on the agenda anybody wants to bring up you can put on it for a future where you're driving there's potholes popping up yeah I know okay then I guess we're that's great see now what 45 that's pretty good okay so we need a motion to adjourn and we're done move I move seconded support thank you very much this was good we've got a lot accomplished there I like that very good thank you thank you it's good good speaker too yeah