the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Thursday, December 11, 2025 · 68 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on December 10, 2025

Summary

The city council discussed road construction costs, funding allocation, and process, as well as millage rates, inflation rate multiplier, and Headley rollbacks, with a focus on transparency and community engagement.

  • Residents expressed concerns about road construction costs and lack of transparency in the bidding process.
  • Council members discussed millage rates, inflation rate multiplier, and Headley rollbacks, and their impact on municipal revenues.
  • The city council discussed the impact of property value rollbacks on municipal revenues and millage rates.
  • Residents suggested improving meeting efficiency with metrics and a dashboard, and council members discussed organizational management and deer population management.
  • The city council discussed road funding, infrastructure, and marijuana regulations, and referenced a previous meeting and a newspaper article from Kent County.

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Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. All this meeting to order. Fred will be here. It's just running away. That's okay. We have a quorum. One, two, three, four, five. We have a quorum so we can do business. The first item on the agenda would be minutes from three meetings. October 1st, the 29th, and the 12th. And so you all got them. It's an attachment. Anybody have any changes or corrections you want to make? Yes, sir. I move that we accept the minutes of the meetings on the October 1st, the 29th. Move the support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Okay, they're accepted. I want to make one or two little changes in this. What I want to do before Darren Kratz comes up, we have one person here who would like to speak, but he has to leave. So I would like to move up. Public comment right to now. He's the only one here, so let's, you know. It's not like we're going to have a 45 minutes before we get to this. We've got all our time. There you go. Welcome. We need to name and address. Yeah, Casey Christensen. I'm at 2517 Bradway Boulevard in the village. So yeah, I just wanted to come and, you know, I've been in this process of going through, you know, the roads and I was, I've been in the village for over like 15 years. So I was a part of it when it first came out and when the, the roads were bid all at one time. And then now obviously they were broken up. And as I look through the pricing that is. of going through kind of every different uh sad the cost seemed just exorbitant to me and they have from the very beginning and you know when you start looking at the per mile per section you know there is economies of scale that would take place like in regards to like phase four versus phase one you know it's another mile roughly per road than phase four and then you look at for phase four it's four four point three almost four point three million miles per road which ten years ago um roughly when they bid it it was about a million dollars per road and when you start to take into consideration when this new one was bid um you know you know uh materials were at an all-time high uh petroleum which again makes up quite a bit of the you know materials of ashwall was at all the time high and now those have you know come down significantly as well too so just wondering what process would be taken to kind of maybe rebid this rethink this um as kind of a point

  2. So yeah, I just wanted to come and, you know, I've been in this process of going through, you know, the roads and I was, I've been in the village for over like 15 years. So I was a part of it when it first came out and when the, the roads were bid all at one time. And then now obviously they were broken up. And as I look through the pricing that is. of going through kind of every different uh sad the cost seemed just exorbitant to me and they have from the very beginning and you know when you start looking at the per mile per section you know there is economies of scale that would take place like in regards to like phase four versus phase one you know it's another mile roughly per road than phase four and then you look at for phase four it's four four point three almost four point three million miles per road which ten years ago um roughly when they bid it it was about a million dollars per road and when you start to take into consideration when this new one was bid um you know you know uh materials were at an all-time high uh petroleum which again makes up quite a bit of the you know materials of ashwall was at all the time high and now those have you know come down significantly as well too so just wondering what process would be taken to kind of maybe rebid this rethink this um as kind of a point one and then um originally when we requested during this beginning of the process so i've been a part of like a large group and a small group and multiple different groups all over the place in terms of like asking other options like in terms of like doing just like a straight rip of the the very top as opposed to going down eight inches and all this other kind of stuff and so to save my time um we were told that there were no other options absolutely couldn't do it was impossible there were no All other funding efforts that were available from the state, we couldn't really get anything. And then recently, seeing the latest email, I think it was from the village association, that 500,000 was allocated to only the green section. Well, because I wrote this process with pink, green, whatever color you want to throw out there, I started getting calls and a lot of folks are pretty upset about that it's only allocated to the green and it's not amortized over the rest of the group. And so what my question is, is one, if they found 500,000 now for the green, I feel like it's because the green is not passing. It's, we're not getting the email saying, hey, we're this close, let's do a little bit more, so on and so forth.

  3. wondering what process would be taken to kind of maybe rebid this rethink this um as kind of a point one and then um originally when we requested during this beginning of the process so i've been a part of like a large group and a small group and multiple different groups all over the place in terms of like asking other options like in terms of like doing just like a straight rip of the the very top as opposed to going down eight inches and all this other kind of stuff and so to save my time um we were told that there were no other options absolutely couldn't do it was impossible there were no All other funding efforts that were available from the state, we couldn't really get anything. And then recently, seeing the latest email, I think it was from the village association, that 500,000 was allocated to only the green section. Well, because I wrote this process with pink, green, whatever color you want to throw out there, I started getting calls and a lot of folks are pretty upset about that it's only allocated to the green and it's not amortized over the rest of the group. And so what my question is, is one, if they found 500,000 now for the green, I feel like it's because the green is not passing. It's, we're not getting the email saying, hey, we're this close, let's do a little bit more, so on and so forth. And then, again, this is outside of the realm of, you can interpret this how you want, but it's more of a, it's an exploding offer. If you don't pass green now, this money goes away, it's gone, nothing else you can do. Which, again, I find that a little kind of sending, you know, around like how they're positioning this. It's like, it should be, hey, here's the facts, it's 500 grand, we wish you would vote yes, so on and so forth, right? But I feel like there's other funding options that should be available if we found 500k now, but we never had 500k across any of the other sections. And then, you know, we went through all this process, we actually spoke here at a meeting where we FOIA'd all the sections. and prove that a lot of the signatures were actually not two per home even though those individuals were married couples it was proven that they weren't and then they just said hey thanks for the facts but we're just gonna push this through which again I just didn't agree with and then last thing which I got four seconds left I voiced this for two years and what is my voice gonna do now I feel like it's done nothing and I just come here and I speak to brick walls so that's just my thoughts and my comment so what I'm gonna say is that the questions

  4. It's, we're not getting the email saying, hey, we're this close, let's do a little bit more, so on and so forth. And then, again, this is outside of the realm of, you can interpret this how you want, but it's more of a, it's an exploding offer. If you don't pass green now, this money goes away, it's gone, nothing else you can do. Which, again, I find that a little kind of sending, you know, around like how they're positioning this. It's like, it should be, hey, here's the facts, it's 500 grand, we wish you would vote yes, so on and so forth, right? But I feel like there's other funding options that should be available if we found 500k now, but we never had 500k across any of the other sections. And then, you know, we went through all this process, we actually spoke here at a meeting where we FOIA'd all the sections. and prove that a lot of the signatures were actually not two per home even though those individuals were married couples it was proven that they weren't and then they just said hey thanks for the facts but we're just gonna push this through which again I just didn't agree with and then last thing which I got four seconds left I voiced this for two years and what is my voice gonna do now I feel like it's done nothing and I just come here and I speak to brick walls so that's just my thoughts and my comment so what I'm gonna say is that the questions you asked we're not qualified to answer those questions okay we here yeah but maybe administration well that part but the first ones were about rebidding you asked about well Darren's here Darren Darren's quite involved with that and he could probably help answer some of those questions okay so would you want to do that right now or I'll address the 500,000 okay so the state of Michigan in October the first passed a new budget and in that new budget was two billion dollars for road funding to go towards local roads and then the governor signed it in the law I believe on that Wednesday the third you remember hearing about this in the press at all yeah so they M dots budget was about five billion so by adding two billion which is now a majority of it I forget the number is earmarked for local roads so our Road Commission is due to get an additional thirty five billion dollars but we're trying to clarify that now okay and what the Road Commission has been telling us is that they are going to try and now participate in SADs at what level they're not sure so I've been hounding them since I got into office for money to help us and this is

  5. that's just my thoughts and my comment so what I'm gonna say is that the questions you asked we're not qualified to answer those questions okay we here yeah but maybe administration well that part but the first ones were about rebidding you asked about well Darren's here Darren Darren's quite involved with that and he could probably help answer some of those questions okay so would you want to do that right now or I'll address the 500,000 okay so the state of Michigan in October the first passed a new budget and in that new budget was two billion dollars for road funding to go towards local roads and then the governor signed it in the law I believe on that Wednesday the third you remember hearing about this in the press at all yeah so they M dots budget was about five billion so by adding two billion which is now a majority of it I forget the number is earmarked for local roads so our Road Commission is due to get an additional thirty five billion dollars but we're trying to clarify that now okay and what the Road Commission has been telling us is that they are going to try and now participate in SADs at what level they're not sure so I've been hounding them since I got into office for money to help us and this is the first time that they were able to commit dollars because of the new funding but yet they were they were hesitant because they are not clear yet on any strings that are attached to it okay but they still wanted to start participating in SADs so that's why the green section and it had to do with time and the new budget with the money involved that they were able to participate now I'm going back to them again for more money because there's another SAD out there that we're gonna need help on but we have to clarify and they still don't have clarity yet on exactly when and how it's coming in does that help it does yeah but it again brings up another question is to where they're not clear on how much they can fund when is that going to be with that clarity going to go and then how many other SADs would be a part of that because if you have two billion dollars amortized over X number five billion we think is going to the Oakland County the Road Commission of Oakland County okay so it's two billion statewide statewide that goes to city villages and then road commissions okay but there's also some money earmarked for another purpose and like it's not coming to mind I'm sorry I want to correct in one thing though yeah

  6. been hounding them since I got into office for money to help us and this is the first time that they were able to commit dollars because of the new funding but yet they were they were hesitant because they are not clear yet on any strings that are attached to it okay but they still wanted to start participating in SADs so that's why the green section and it had to do with time and the new budget with the money involved that they were able to participate now I'm going back to them again for more money because there's another SAD out there that we're gonna need help on but we have to clarify and they still don't have clarity yet on exactly when and how it's coming in does that help it does yeah but it again brings up another question is to where they're not clear on how much they can fund when is that going to be with that clarity going to go and then how many other SADs would be a part of that because if you have two billion dollars amortized over X number five billion we think is going to the Oakland County the Road Commission of Oakland County okay so it's two billion statewide statewide that goes to city villages and then road commissions okay but there's also some money earmarked for another purpose and like it's not coming to mind I'm sorry I want to correct in one thing though yeah you said that you've come to us become here before and talked about this and you get you didn't not to this you may have come to the township to the board of trustees to others but we're and we're not involved in individual when individual SATs or individual we're looking at global solutions over the township I just want to correct you you're right I did come to a township board meeting not to a road commission got it now the other thing the other question I'm gonna ask that maybe some one of you felt you got not now but if you could you could work together with them and get your answers from them okay personally instead of you know from us because we don't know the answer any but if you get your answer from them is that all right yeah I think okay understand more about when you talked about why they are redoing the rows away they are it's the road commission that makes those decisions we don't they they own and manage the roads in the township and as frustrating that is because we can't get a stop sign a yield sign a slowdown sign you know what else Jeff anything home speed bump they'll turn on right no right no traffic yeah they it's all up to them now we can ask them for it and petition for it but that doesn't mean that we're

  7. you said that you've come to us become here before and talked about this and you get you didn't not to this you may have come to the township to the board of trustees to others but we're and we're not involved in individual when individual SATs or individual we're looking at global solutions over the township I just want to correct you you're right I did come to a township board meeting not to a road commission got it now the other thing the other question I'm gonna ask that maybe some one of you felt you got not now but if you could you could work together with them and get your answers from them okay personally instead of you know from us because we don't know the answer any but if you get your answer from them is that all right yeah I think okay understand more about when you talked about why they are redoing the rows away they are it's the road commission that makes those decisions we don't they they own and manage the roads in the township and as frustrating that is because we can't get a stop sign a yield sign a slowdown sign you know what else Jeff anything home speed bump they'll turn on right no right no traffic yeah they it's all up to them now we can ask them for it and petition for it but that doesn't mean that we're gonna get it right yeah no you know again I feel like it's it's the similar questions that we asked before about the rebidding process and a little bit too late you know because it should have been at the very beginning when we could tell you bid 14 miles of road versus now we have the last two miles and we're kind of little and then when we get money it's their rules and their guidelines that we have to follow so for instance we were able to get more money from the state because we want to build a new fire station at 15 and telegraph we asked for 12 million we got 1.5 million which means we got to go back to ask for some more money we also got money from some cog for some safety paths that we applied for for a grant of 1.4 million and every time we get that money it comes with guidelines and restrictions okay and there's a million overlay thing that you mentioned you said why not do that that's done on major roads like telegraph has done that maple road was done like that but the county won't do it in subdivisions I've had experience with this myself in because the standards then don't meet the new standards of the road and the the sad it doesn't last long enough for that for an sad so they won't do that did did that so that's that wasn't the case 10 years ago though when they bid

  8. now we can ask them for it and petition for it but that doesn't mean that we're gonna get it right yeah no you know again I feel like it's it's the similar questions that we asked before about the rebidding process and a little bit too late you know because it should have been at the very beginning when we could tell you bid 14 miles of road versus now we have the last two miles and we're kind of little and then when we get money it's their rules and their guidelines that we have to follow so for instance we were able to get more money from the state because we want to build a new fire station at 15 and telegraph we asked for 12 million we got 1.5 million which means we got to go back to ask for some more money we also got money from some cog for some safety paths that we applied for for a grant of 1.4 million and every time we get that money it comes with guidelines and restrictions okay and there's a million overlay thing that you mentioned you said why not do that that's done on major roads like telegraph has done that maple road was done like that but the county won't do it in subdivisions I've had experience with this myself in because the standards then don't meet the new standards of the road and the the sad it doesn't last long enough for that for an sad so they won't do that did did that so that's that wasn't the case 10 years ago though when they bid them all at once that's that's what I'm saying is they did build bid them all at once unless the standards changed can I ask you a question yeah you know I'm I know you and you know me what has been the I don't live in the green section but I've received feedback from people in the green section about the offer to defray cost of $2,500 on a much more expensive project than $2,500 and their dissatisfaction with the timing of when that offer was made because there is very tenacious effort afoot with multiple calls from the HOA president board chair and manager of residents in the green section as I understand it some people have been contacted 15 times as an individual what's the feedback you have from the green section about the offer of $2,500 to defray a $50,000 project minus interest etc yes I think the the feedback I've been given is one from the green is it's that they feel that it's more of like an act of desperation of like hey we had this money now take it or leave it or else it's gone and then the other portion of it is they don't really care because unless they you know write a check for $50,000 it really doesn't do much because then the and the percentages have changed but it's a different percent by section but then

  9. they won't do that did did that so that's that wasn't the case 10 years ago though when they bid them all at once that's that's what I'm saying is they did build bid them all at once unless the standards changed can I ask you a question yeah you know I'm I know you and you know me what has been the I don't live in the green section but I've received feedback from people in the green section about the offer to defray cost of $2,500 on a much more expensive project than $2,500 and their dissatisfaction with the timing of when that offer was made because there is very tenacious effort afoot with multiple calls from the HOA president board chair and manager of residents in the green section as I understand it some people have been contacted 15 times as an individual what's the feedback you have from the green section about the offer of $2,500 to defray a $50,000 project minus interest etc yes I think the the feedback I've been given is one from the green is it's that they feel that it's more of like an act of desperation of like hey we had this money now take it or leave it or else it's gone and then the other portion of it is they don't really care because unless they you know write a check for $50,000 it really doesn't do much because then the and the percentages have changed but it's a different percent by section but then that $2,500 is gonna get eaten up like that so it goes away pretty quickly and then you know with me family of three and younger family sole breadwinner you know having to come out of pocket for $50,000 or amortize that over 15 years is a big pill to swallow you know you're looking at 65 to $70,000 for 63 feet of road when you have a house down the street that's worth 10 million dollars and he makes 20 million a year it's the same cost and I know that originally they said that we couldn't bid it by frontage and there was reasons that we were given for that but again that's been the feedback is that one that the money seems just oddly timed two it's a little bit active desperation to get them to sign because it's not passing as it sits now. And then the other sections find it highly disrespectful that it's not going across and amortized to everybody and they had to pay the 52, the 60, whatever that is across the board. So and somehow I entered into like the voice of a lot of different things. Yes, thank you for coming. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Okay, real quick, so what would you like to have done originally?

  10. and the percentages have changed but it's a different percent by section but then that $2,500 is gonna get eaten up like that so it goes away pretty quickly and then you know with me family of three and younger family sole breadwinner you know having to come out of pocket for $50,000 or amortize that over 15 years is a big pill to swallow you know you're looking at 65 to $70,000 for 63 feet of road when you have a house down the street that's worth 10 million dollars and he makes 20 million a year it's the same cost and I know that originally they said that we couldn't bid it by frontage and there was reasons that we were given for that but again that's been the feedback is that one that the money seems just oddly timed two it's a little bit active desperation to get them to sign because it's not passing as it sits now. And then the other sections find it highly disrespectful that it's not going across and amortized to everybody and they had to pay the 52, the 60, whatever that is across the board. So and somehow I entered into like the voice of a lot of different things. Yes, thank you for coming. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Okay, real quick, so what would you like to have done originally? Originally, like from the very beginning? Well, originally I would have rather had, so the village association, there was a lot of I thinks, maybes, that might be true. They didn't have the answers, so we asked. Discourse, excuse me, a discourse between the HOA and the people who live there and the city? Correct, of like, I'm the person in the village resident. The HOA is answering questions but then not allowing us to answer it of the people that are actually making the decisions, like at the road commission or at the, you know, the people that actually hold the pens of like what really is going to happen. And it was more of a trust me, we went through it, we did this for 10 years. So it was really kind of, we're the middle man, don't ask to speak to the other people. So I think more transparency should have been right out of the gate. Well, it seems like there's a lot of disconnects. And unfortunately, now we've got a hodgepodge of stuff that we're going to have to work through. But anyway, thanks, that was, that was. That was very helpful, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for the comments. That's what we pushed that up. We're going to do comments again at the end. If anybody else has something, we'll do it later for you guys. But thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks for the comments. Thanks, Casey. Okay. First item. Now, Darren?

  11. Originally, like from the very beginning? Well, originally I would have rather had, so the village association, there was a lot of I thinks, maybes, that might be true. They didn't have the answers, so we asked. Discourse, excuse me, a discourse between the HOA and the people who live there and the city? Correct, of like, I'm the person in the village resident. The HOA is answering questions but then not allowing us to answer it of the people that are actually making the decisions, like at the road commission or at the, you know, the people that actually hold the pens of like what really is going to happen. And it was more of a trust me, we went through it, we did this for 10 years. So it was really kind of, we're the middle man, don't ask to speak to the other people. So I think more transparency should have been right out of the gate. Well, it seems like there's a lot of disconnects. And unfortunately, now we've got a hodgepodge of stuff that we're going to have to work through. But anyway, thanks, that was, that was. That was very helpful, to be honest. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for the comments. That's what we pushed that up. We're going to do comments again at the end. If anybody else has something, we'll do it later for you guys. But thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thanks for the comments. Thanks, Casey. Okay. First item. Now, Darren? Yep. Okay. Well, I don't know what you guys did to request me as a speaker, because in about 10 minutes, your eyes would be glazed over, and you'd be ready to go take a nap. So, Supervisor McCready asked me to do a brief presentation on millage rates, the consumer price index, also known as the inflation rate multiplier, and then also the Hedley rollbacks, all of which are fairly straightforward, with the exception of the Hedley rollbacks. So, I'm not sure how you want to do this. If you want me just to go through my presentation and answer questions at the end or as we kind of work through it. So, I'll kind of – it works. All right. Let's start this way. At the last meeting, one of the things we talked about this, the last meeting, somebody made some very valid points that I think 99 out of 100 people would not get. In the fact that we have new construction, we have uncapped properties sold, new houses sold, etc., and asked, well, where does that money go? And the answer is, well, we only get 3% of that. And I was – I was –

  12. Now, Darren? Yep. Okay. Well, I don't know what you guys did to request me as a speaker, because in about 10 minutes, your eyes would be glazed over, and you'd be ready to go take a nap. So, Supervisor McCready asked me to do a brief presentation on millage rates, the consumer price index, also known as the inflation rate multiplier, and then also the Hedley rollbacks, all of which are fairly straightforward, with the exception of the Hedley rollbacks. So, I'm not sure how you want to do this. If you want me just to go through my presentation and answer questions at the end or as we kind of work through it. So, I'll kind of – it works. All right. Let's start this way. At the last meeting, one of the things we talked about this, the last meeting, somebody made some very valid points that I think 99 out of 100 people would not get. In the fact that we have new construction, we have uncapped properties sold, new houses sold, etc., and asked, well, where does that money go? And the answer is, well, we only get 3% of that. And I was – I was – scratching my head saying well where does it go and you answered that in a meeting we had and that's what I'd like to start yeah so and that's that's in my presentation so that'll be that'll all be addressed um it's just sometimes this gets a little confusing and okay and so um not sometimes all the time um okay so to address the inflation rate multiplier uh portion of it the state of Michigan it used to be in September um would issue the uh CPIs or the inflation rate multiplier for the state for that year it's now been I think it was just approved uh the 25th of November um so it's taken them quite a bit longer to get these out to us for whatever reason and they there's really no good justification for it other than it's just taking them longer but so the inflation rate multiplier is determined by the state of Michigan annually um and then that's handed down to the local units um you know and and then it's up to the local units to apply that to each property in the township uh on an annual basis so uh I've included a list of the consumer price indexes since 1995 which is the first year um all the way up through current year for you to take a look at um I would say that on average it's somewhere right around two two and a half percent um if you

  13. scratching my head saying well where does it go and you answered that in a meeting we had and that's what I'd like to start yeah so and that's that's in my presentation so that'll be that'll all be addressed um it's just sometimes this gets a little confusing and okay and so um not sometimes all the time um okay so to address the inflation rate multiplier uh portion of it the state of Michigan it used to be in September um would issue the uh CPIs or the inflation rate multiplier for the state for that year it's now been I think it was just approved uh the 25th of November um so it's taken them quite a bit longer to get these out to us for whatever reason and they there's really no good justification for it other than it's just taking them longer but so the inflation rate multiplier is determined by the state of Michigan annually um and then that's handed down to the local units um you know and and then it's up to the local units to apply that to each property in the township uh on an annual basis so uh I've included a list of the consumer price indexes since 1995 which is the first year um all the way up through current year for you to take a look at um I would say that on average it's somewhere right around two two and a half percent um if you look at the overall average of of the history of the consumer price index but again remember that that consumer price index can't go over five percent so if you You recall two years ago, I believe the real inflation rate was 7.9%. Everybody here in the state of Michigan was capped at five. I think that was two years in a row. I think last year, actually back in 24, it was, I think, 5.3% or 5.4% actual inflation. And again, it was capped at the five. So if you're in your house and you don't move, you don't do an addition, you don't do anything to your house other than just maintain it and live in there, your house every year is going to go up by the consumer price index. Now, that only applies to taxable value. So if you're in a neighborhood where the market's doing really good and you get a 10% or 15%, 10%, 12% increase in your market value, your assessed value can go up 10%, 12%. But your taxable value is limited to the CPI of 5%, whichever is the lesser of the two. That includes both residential, commercial, other property?

  14. at um I would say that on average it's somewhere right around two two and a half percent um if you look at the overall average of of the history of the consumer price index but again remember that that consumer price index can't go over five percent so if you You recall two years ago, I believe the real inflation rate was 7.9%. Everybody here in the state of Michigan was capped at five. I think that was two years in a row. I think last year, actually back in 24, it was, I think, 5.3% or 5.4% actual inflation. And again, it was capped at the five. So if you're in your house and you don't move, you don't do an addition, you don't do anything to your house other than just maintain it and live in there, your house every year is going to go up by the consumer price index. Now, that only applies to taxable value. So if you're in a neighborhood where the market's doing really good and you get a 10% or 15%, 10%, 12% increase in your market value, your assessed value can go up 10%, 12%. But your taxable value is limited to the CPI of 5%, whichever is the lesser of the two. That includes both residential, commercial, other property? Yep. And so what is the property value of the Tasha? The taxable value is $5.6 billion. We have it estimated at $5.6 billion, yeah. But our assessed value is like $6.9, I think. $6.9 billion. Clarity, you just said that includes commercial and residential. Commercial, industrial, residential. I think. I thought that only residential was capped under proposed lay. Commercial is also capped? Because of 5%. I didn't know that. I thought it was primary residences. What's that? I thought it was only primary residences. Oh, no, no, it's all property, yeah. So now getting into the Headley rollback, the Headley Amendment was adopted in 1978. And it requires that if taxable values over property in a local jurisdiction increases faster than the inflation rate, again, here we go back to the CPI, then the taxable property, the millages that are applied to those taxable values have to be rolled back on an annual basis. And I'll get into all the rollbacks and the calculations and all that kind of stuff here in a minute.

  15. That includes both residential, commercial, other property? Yep. And so what is the property value of the Tasha? The taxable value is $5.6 billion. We have it estimated at $5.6 billion, yeah. But our assessed value is like $6.9, I think. $6.9 billion. Clarity, you just said that includes commercial and residential. Commercial, industrial, residential. I think. I thought that only residential was capped under proposed lay. Commercial is also capped? Because of 5%. I didn't know that. I thought it was primary residences. What's that? I thought it was only primary residences. Oh, no, no, it's all property, yeah. So now getting into the Headley rollback, the Headley Amendment was adopted in 1978. And it requires that if taxable values over property in a local jurisdiction increases faster than the inflation rate, again, here we go back to the CPI, then the taxable property, the millages that are applied to those taxable values have to be rolled back on an annual basis. And I'll get into all the rollbacks and the calculations and all that kind of stuff here in a minute. So the rollbacks are done through what we, the county calculates out, what's called a millage reduction fraction annually. And basically what that is, is that's, that's a computation of the prior year's taxable value minus the losses times the, times the consumer price index divided by, you know, current year taxable value minus additions. That gives you your, your, your millage reduction fraction, which is what we then apply to the millages annually to roll them back. And that'll be a little bit clearer when I get to the next couple of slides. higher amounts. So the goal of that... So the goal of that... hedley amendment is to uh limit the amount of property tax revenue on an annual basis so again to that person's comment of the the uncappings of a property the new construction on properties all those all those factors go into um the the rollback calculation and they they they don't they don't allow the township or any municipality to generate you know x amount of revenue because of all of these uncappings we roll everything back and and we don't and i'll show it to you in a minute but it

  16. and all that kind of stuff here in a minute. So the rollbacks are done through what we, the county calculates out, what's called a millage reduction fraction annually. And basically what that is, is that's, that's a computation of the prior year's taxable value minus the losses times the, times the consumer price index divided by, you know, current year taxable value minus additions. That gives you your, your, your millage reduction fraction, which is what we then apply to the millages annually to roll them back. And that'll be a little bit clearer when I get to the next couple of slides. higher amounts. So the goal of that... So the goal of that... hedley amendment is to uh limit the amount of property tax revenue on an annual basis so again to that person's comment of the the uncappings of a property the new construction on properties all those all those factors go into um the the rollback calculation and they they they don't they don't allow the township or any municipality to generate you know x amount of revenue because of all of these uncappings we roll everything back and and we don't and i'll show it to you in a minute but it it really limits or hampers the amount of increase in taxable value that the community realizes annually so um i keep doing that um give me just one second i gotta get back to i'm going the wrong direction um make up your mind okay there we go um so again just to kind of wrap that up because because of the rollbacks you know property values go up right everybody knows that they're going up on an annual basis in some cases they're going up pretty substantially but because of the consumer price index and these rollbacks municipalities do not recognize what a lot of the public perceives as windfalls of money on an annual basis it just it's just not you case until the property changes hands until well but but even though that's an uncapping but because of that that that uncapping plays into the rollback so the more uncappings you have and the and the you know the the bigger your rollback is going to be so if we had we typically

  17. these uncappings we roll everything back and and we don't and i'll show it to you in a minute but it it really limits or hampers the amount of increase in taxable value that the community realizes annually so um i keep doing that um give me just one second i gotta get back to i'm going the wrong direction um make up your mind okay there we go um so again just to kind of wrap that up because because of the rollbacks you know property values go up right everybody knows that they're going up on an annual basis in some cases they're going up pretty substantially but because of the consumer price index and these rollbacks municipalities do not recognize what a lot of the public perceives as windfalls of money on an annual basis it just it's just not you case until the property changes hands until well but but even though that's an uncapping but because of that that that uncapping plays into the rollback so the more uncappings you have and the and the you know the the bigger your rollback is going to be so if we had we typically have about 10 of the community turnover on an annual basis but let's say we had a you know for whatever reason we had 30 or 40 percent turnover we have a really really big rollback um so so the the millage that was levied in let's say 24 wouldn't be anywhere near what the millage is going to be levying in 25 because that rollback that reduction fraction would be much much larger so um again though at the at the you know just another point to headley at any point in time communities can override the headley so it would have to go to a vote of the people um and and the public would have to vote on it um it happens occasionally not often but it does happen so um so okay so this is an example of uh what we use to kind of calculate out uh projected uh revenues for the township so if you look in that that first yellow box um how come my mouse isn't up up on that screen which one uh on either one of them it should be popping up on both screens okay well all right well i guess we'll just do it

  18. and the and the you know the the bigger your rollback is going to be so if we had we typically have about 10 of the community turnover on an annual basis but let's say we had a you know for whatever reason we had 30 or 40 percent turnover we have a really really big rollback um so so the the millage that was levied in let's say 24 wouldn't be anywhere near what the millage is going to be levying in 25 because that rollback that reduction fraction would be much much larger so um again though at the at the you know just another point to headley at any point in time communities can override the headley so it would have to go to a vote of the people um and and the public would have to vote on it um it happens occasionally not often but it does happen so um so okay so this is an example of uh what we use to kind of calculate out uh projected uh revenues for the township so if you look in that that first yellow box um how come my mouse isn't up up on that screen which one uh on either one of them it should be popping up on both screens okay well all right well i guess we'll just do it So the 2025 taxable value is what our actual taxable value was in 2025. The far left column is the 25 mills. So those are all the millage rates that were levied by the township. Okay. So we have other library millages. We have capital debt millages, so on and so forth. But those are not impacted by Headley. So that's why I didn't put them on here. Then you'll see – oh, there it goes. Okay. So then you'll see right under there the millage reduction fraction for that year was 0.9957. So what we'll do is we'll take this 25 millage, multiply every one of them by that 0.9957 to come up with your estimated 2026 millage rates. Okay. So then we'll use – that's what we levy per line for 2025 based on these millage rates. Okay. Then 2026, because of the rolled back millage, we're going to be levying on 50 – oh, man, my eyes – 50, what is it, 55 million?

  19. So the 2025 taxable value is what our actual taxable value was in 2025. The far left column is the 25 mills. So those are all the millage rates that were levied by the township. Okay. So we have other library millages. We have capital debt millages, so on and so forth. But those are not impacted by Headley. So that's why I didn't put them on here. Then you'll see – oh, there it goes. Okay. So then you'll see right under there the millage reduction fraction for that year was 0.9957. So what we'll do is we'll take this 25 millage, multiply every one of them by that 0.9957 to come up with your estimated 2026 millage rates. Okay. So then we'll use – that's what we levy per line for 2025 based on these millage rates. Okay. Then 2026, because of the rolled back millage, we're going to be levying on 50 – oh, man, my eyes – 50, what is it, 55 million? Yeah, 55 million. You'll notice in 2025 the levy was 53 million. So you're sitting there saying, okay. well you know that's roughly two million dollar increase in and taxable you know tax revenue if we had no rollbacks which is the farthest right column we would have we would have levied about two two million forty thousand dollars in additional tax revenue from one year to the next if we didn't have these rollbacks okay um i believe we have another yeah okay and then this is 24 25 um estimates or not estimates but 24 25 millage rates and i did the same thing i don't necessarily know that i need to go through the entire explanation again but you'll notice that the millage reduction fraction back then was 0.9953 so it wasn't too terribly different than what it was um in the in the fountain the next year but again for this particular tax year it would have been about an additional 2.6 million dollars had we not had the rollbacks that we were

  20. Then 2026, because of the rolled back millage, we're going to be levying on 50 – oh, man, my eyes – 50, what is it, 55 million? Yeah, 55 million. You'll notice in 2025 the levy was 53 million. So you're sitting there saying, okay. well you know that's roughly two million dollar increase in and taxable you know tax revenue if we had no rollbacks which is the farthest right column we would have we would have levied about two two million forty thousand dollars in additional tax revenue from one year to the next if we didn't have these rollbacks okay um i believe we have another yeah okay and then this is 24 25 um estimates or not estimates but 24 25 millage rates and i did the same thing i don't necessarily know that i need to go through the entire explanation again but you'll notice that the millage reduction fraction back then was 0.9953 so it wasn't too terribly different than what it was um in the in the fountain the next year but again for this particular tax year it would have been about an additional 2.6 million dollars had we not had the rollbacks that we were required to levy just a question you mentioned about headley override yeah okay does that mean that we could have we could vote not to increase millage not to go from 30 whatever mills up but we could say stay the same that's the vote we stay the same but any of the the surplus created by new construction by uncaps new construction by uncaps new construction by uncaps Thank you. we could keep here and not have to roll back. Is that an override we can do? No, overrides really pertain to the millage rates. So as an example, if we were, if in cities, cities are allowed to levy 20 mills of general operating. So let's say they did that, you know, eight years ago, and now they're down to 17 mills, and something came up where they need an influx of cash for some reason. They could put it out to a vote of the people where they would take it from the 17 mills back to the 20 mills. So you collect those three additional mills for additional tax revenue for whatever purposes. That's the headley override. That would be a headley override, yeah. And that happened quite a bit during like eight, nine, ten. Communities went out for headley overrides

  21. it would have been about an additional 2.6 million dollars had we not had the rollbacks that we were required to levy just a question you mentioned about headley override yeah okay does that mean that we could have we could vote not to increase millage not to go from 30 whatever mills up but we could say stay the same that's the vote we stay the same but any of the the surplus created by new construction by uncaps new construction by uncaps new construction by uncaps Thank you. we could keep here and not have to roll back. Is that an override we can do? No, overrides really pertain to the millage rates. So as an example, if we were, if in cities, cities are allowed to levy 20 mills of general operating. So let's say they did that, you know, eight years ago, and now they're down to 17 mills, and something came up where they need an influx of cash for some reason. They could put it out to a vote of the people where they would take it from the 17 mills back to the 20 mills. So you collect those three additional mills for additional tax revenue for whatever purposes. That's the headley override. That would be a headley override, yeah. And that happened quite a bit during like eight, nine, ten. Communities went out for headley overrides because of the market crashing and the revenues just really falling off the table. Any of our attorneys looked at what I said about keeping the millage the same, not going up, keeping it the same. So my mill would be exactly the same, and my property taxes would go up 5% of the rate of inflation because the millage stayed the same. But the excess from, have attorneys ever looked into that and said that it can or can't be done the other way? Keeping the millage the same, but keeping the excess. Our attorneys have looked into everything. I think every angle, every which way we can look at these things. And I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know. think that's a possibility i think i think the way we're doing things is well i know the way we're doing things is the right way it's the way it's supposed to be done so in all the ways the only way to rate an over it can only be to increase millage yeah to add mills and then you know i mean in that and that's yeah i mean that's really the the crux of it and that's that it happened back in the downturn and um a lot it was more muni cities were doing that um but it did happen quite a bit so and some of them actually passed so did you have a question that's okay

  22. Communities went out for headley overrides because of the market crashing and the revenues just really falling off the table. Any of our attorneys looked at what I said about keeping the millage the same, not going up, keeping it the same. So my mill would be exactly the same, and my property taxes would go up 5% of the rate of inflation because the millage stayed the same. But the excess from, have attorneys ever looked into that and said that it can or can't be done the other way? Keeping the millage the same, but keeping the excess. Our attorneys have looked into everything. I think every angle, every which way we can look at these things. And I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know. think that's a possibility i think i think the way we're doing things is well i know the way we're doing things is the right way it's the way it's supposed to be done so in all the ways the only way to rate an over it can only be to increase millage yeah to add mills and then you know i mean in that and that's yeah i mean that's really the the crux of it and that's that it happened back in the downturn and um a lot it was more muni cities were doing that um but it did happen quite a bit so and some of them actually passed so did you have a question that's okay okay so here's the millage reduction fraction calculation worksheet that the counties use to estimate your um the individual community's uh millage reduction fraction for the for whatever individual year so really the the the calculation is the it's really the prior year taxable minus any losses so that would be fires or demolitions because somebody's going to reconstruct the house or whatever and then they and then multiply that number times the consumer price index for that individual year and then you take the current year taxable value you back out the additions so that's any new construction you know garage extensive remodel anything like that that um you divide those two numbers into each other and that that calculates out your millage reduction fraction so if it's over one which has happened maybe one or two times in my you know my 18 19 years here then you don't get a reduction fraction your

  23. quite a bit so and some of them actually passed so did you have a question that's okay okay so here's the millage reduction fraction calculation worksheet that the counties use to estimate your um the individual community's uh millage reduction fraction for the for whatever individual year so really the the the calculation is the it's really the prior year taxable minus any losses so that would be fires or demolitions because somebody's going to reconstruct the house or whatever and then they and then multiply that number times the consumer price index for that individual year and then you take the current year taxable value you back out the additions so that's any new construction you know garage extensive remodel anything like that that um you divide those two numbers into each other and that that calculates out your millage reduction fraction so if it's over one which has happened maybe one or two times in my you know my 18 19 years here then you don't get a reduction fraction your millage rate stays the same from one year to the next if it's under one then you're getting your millage rates rolled back so and the only time it's really ever happened is when inflation has been sky high okay this may be a bizarre question but I have to ask it if the property values are linked to the condition of the roads okay then why is it as the condition of the roads as we know we're on defton nine defcon five as far as the road conditions and every road is a red and the road conditions in the neighborhoods are deteriorating why would the property taxes go higher so the answer to that question is property values are not tied to road conditions what they're tied to is market conditions so with that said you know and I know a hot topic is the village you know the property values in the village have not gone down

  24. you know my 18 19 years here then you don't get a reduction fraction your millage rate stays the same from one year to the next if it's under one then you're getting your millage rates rolled back so and the only time it's really ever happened is when inflation has been sky high okay this may be a bizarre question but I have to ask it if the property values are linked to the condition of the roads okay then why is it as the condition of the roads as we know we're on defton nine defcon five as far as the road conditions and every road is a red and the road conditions in the neighborhoods are deteriorating why would the property taxes go higher so the answer to that question is property values are not tied to road conditions what they're tied to is market conditions so with that said you know and I know a hot topic is the village you know the property values in the village have not gone down because of the condition of the roads now we're so new into some of the phases being done that we'll we'll be able to establish shortly how much impact in the market that the new roads have had on these properties well when they when they when they culminate when one comes and says we should we have to repair the roads because we want to increase our property values they're tied to the property value then they're really not being honest I would say to you that the answer to that is if you're it's it's a little tricky because we deal with market right so whatever's happened in the market so we we value properties based on what data we're getting from the market so if somebody says to me Darren I want we got to do these roads because I want to increase my property values let's say that's what you're going to the subdivisions and saying so let's say that happens in my neighborhood okay so somebody you know circulates a petition and and it's fifty thousand dollars do I want to pay that fifty thousand dollars no probably not do I know that at the end of the day that I'm probably going to realize an increased market value because of the roads absolutely 100% and I can you show that that that's true we can I mean but like with the village we're new so

  25. because of the condition of the roads now we're so new into some of the phases being done that we'll we'll be able to establish shortly how much impact in the market that the new roads have had on these properties well when they when they when they culminate when one comes and says we should we have to repair the roads because we want to increase our property values they're tied to the property value then they're really not being honest I would say to you that the answer to that is if you're it's it's a little tricky because we deal with market right so whatever's happened in the market so we we value properties based on what data we're getting from the market so if somebody says to me Darren I want we got to do these roads because I want to increase my property values let's say that's what you're going to the subdivisions and saying so let's say that happens in my neighborhood okay so somebody you know circulates a petition and and it's fifty thousand dollars do I want to pay that fifty thousand dollars no probably not do I know that at the end of the day that I'm probably going to realize an increased market value because of the roads absolutely 100% and I can you show that that that's true we can I mean but like with the village we're new so we don't we only have a couple months worth of yeah data from the red and blue but yeah something that charts well along those lines would be helpful thanks several years ago when Westchester was looking at this the first time right we we got from the township a comparison of two similar subdivisions of course they're not the same exactly you can't but they were similar and they and it's a little arbitrary but they said there was about a 10% increase from the one that did the roads to the one that didn't that goes back several years but that's that's what the argument was it would go up 10% yeah and I think I think what you'll find if you sit down and you analyze whatever neighborhood doesn't it doesn't even need to be the village if you have a neighborhood I think Caroline Hills just over here on Long Lake redid their roads eight years ago or so and they were that that neighborhood was suffering now there was a lot of other reasons they you know the homes were dated they needed to be updated inside and out the roads were suffering the roads were not in good condition and Caroline Hills has bounced back now again some of the homes have done extensive remods and different things like that but you know I from my experiences I can tell you if I'm you know if and we've heard it from

  26. you show that that that's true we can I mean but like with the village we're new so we don't we only have a couple months worth of yeah data from the red and blue but yeah something that charts well along those lines would be helpful thanks several years ago when Westchester was looking at this the first time right we we got from the township a comparison of two similar subdivisions of course they're not the same exactly you can't but they were similar and they and it's a little arbitrary but they said there was about a 10% increase from the one that did the roads to the one that didn't that goes back several years but that's that's what the argument was it would go up 10% yeah and I think I think what you'll find if you sit down and you analyze whatever neighborhood doesn't it doesn't even need to be the village if you have a neighborhood I think Caroline Hills just over here on Long Lake redid their roads eight years ago or so and they were that that neighborhood was suffering now there was a lot of other reasons they you know the homes were dated they needed to be updated inside and out the roads were suffering the roads were not in good condition and Caroline Hills has bounced back now again some of the homes have done extensive remods and different things like that but you know I from my experiences I can tell you if I'm you know if and we've heard it from people if if I'm looking at a neighborhood two neighborhoods one has nice roads and the one doesn't well but we've also heard it the other way I mean we've had you know we have people that don't want to live in a nice neighborhood have a nice road they want dirt roads so their people who want to live in the gravel road yeah yeah oh yeah echo and and and Milford what's that they should move to Milford well they don't need to move to Milford they got several of them in the town show okay so any questions on the reduction fraction calculation worksheet good okay anybody ready to take a nap this is this is actually this is interesting so with with you know kind of again addressing you know how how the Headley impacts you know townships budgets or any municipality really so if you have an area with rapid market driven on cappings which we have I mean you know we have tons and tons of sales itself are way way more than what we haven't valued at so people look at that and they say wow you know and that the uncappings automatically going into the townships coffers well you know I've explained

  27. from my experiences I can tell you if I'm you know if and we've heard it from people if if I'm looking at a neighborhood two neighborhoods one has nice roads and the one doesn't well but we've also heard it the other way I mean we've had you know we have people that don't want to live in a nice neighborhood have a nice road they want dirt roads so their people who want to live in the gravel road yeah yeah oh yeah echo and and and Milford what's that they should move to Milford well they don't need to move to Milford they got several of them in the town show okay so any questions on the reduction fraction calculation worksheet good okay anybody ready to take a nap this is this is actually this is interesting so with with you know kind of again addressing you know how how the Headley impacts you know townships budgets or any municipality really so if you have an area with rapid market driven on cappings which we have I mean you know we have tons and tons of sales itself are way way more than what we haven't valued at so people look at that and they say wow you know and that the uncappings automatically going into the townships coffers well you know I've explained that that's not the case it's just that's just a false preconceived notion it just doesn't happen it would be nice but it doesn't unfortunately so what is is new construction so when you know I said earlier in there that we back out the new construction the current years taxable value that's revenues that we realize so that does help the township to what extent does it does it affect revenue say to what extent does it affect revenue um you know last year we last year example in my neighborhood I would say conservatively 85% of the homes that are sold are bulldozed and new construction and the houses that are bulldozed are you know retail value in the four to five hundred thousand dollar range the new homes are one and a half to two and a half million dollars so that would seem to be a fairly substantial windfall of revenue I mean in the new construction there's no doubt the new construction

  28. automatically going into the townships coffers well you know I've explained that that's not the case it's just that's just a false preconceived notion it just doesn't happen it would be nice but it doesn't unfortunately so what is is new construction so when you know I said earlier in there that we back out the new construction the current years taxable value that's revenues that we realize so that does help the township to what extent does it does it affect revenue say to what extent does it affect revenue um you know last year we last year example in my neighborhood I would say conservatively 85% of the homes that are sold are bulldozed and new construction and the houses that are bulldozed are you know retail value in the four to five hundred thousand dollar range the new homes are one and a half to two and a half million dollars so that would seem to be a fairly substantial windfall of revenue I mean in the new construction there's no doubt the new construction is it's it increases the revenue for the township there's no doubt but again every year when we do so when we when we do our budgets when Jason I work through the budget we sit down and we kind of calculate okay you know we're I'm estimating that we're going to get X amount of dollars in new construction plus the consumer price index we're going to have some loss so we sit on we come up with a number all right so our taxable value is going to increase by X dollars and then we've kind of equate that to a percent so if if let's say we say all right by the end of the by in this budget we're estimating about a five percent increase in taxable value then we have to take out about a percent isn't it about a percent percent and a half generally because of rollbacks so yeah we may with the new construction and then the you know we may realize a five percent increase in taxable value but at the end of the day when we do our rollbacks it ends up usually being a percent or maybe a percent and a quarter less than them than what we've calculated out to be the total taxable value increase because of her you're referring to that as holistically for the whole town yeah why can't we why

  29. substantial windfall of revenue I mean in the new construction there's no doubt the new construction is it's it increases the revenue for the township there's no doubt but again every year when we do so when we when we do our budgets when Jason I work through the budget we sit down and we kind of calculate okay you know we're I'm estimating that we're going to get X amount of dollars in new construction plus the consumer price index we're going to have some loss so we sit on we come up with a number all right so our taxable value is going to increase by X dollars and then we've kind of equate that to a percent so if if let's say we say all right by the end of the by in this budget we're estimating about a five percent increase in taxable value then we have to take out about a percent isn't it about a percent percent and a half generally because of rollbacks so yeah we may with the new construction and then the you know we may realize a five percent increase in taxable value but at the end of the day when we do our rollbacks it ends up usually being a percent or maybe a percent and a quarter less than them than what we've calculated out to be the total taxable value increase because of her you're referring to that as holistically for the whole town yeah why can't we why can't we have the ability to calculate what those numbers are on a HOA HOA or neighborhood basis an individual neighborhood basis yeah okay I guess the easy answer to that is that it's not that's not the way it's done you can't I can't treat one neighborhood one way another neighborhood another way another you know I've got to treat everybody as as a whole so but what we do for situations like you is we'll separate out we'll keep the original homes in a neighborhood all of their own and then we'll just use in Bloomfield Estates Bloomfield Estates is a neighborhood that's turned over in the last really eight years or so from older homes to big big mansions so what we've done with them is we'll take the new homes and they'll be in their own neighborhood the older homes will stay in their own neighborhood so we're not commingling values of multi-million dollar properties with you know six seven hundred thousand dollar properties so we to a certain degree as far as the taxpayer goes we're keeping them separate but as far as like Headley rollbacks and those types of we can't we can't do that it's that that's not something that that's not part of the state statute so you so

  30. referring to that as holistically for the whole town yeah why can't we why can't we have the ability to calculate what those numbers are on a HOA HOA or neighborhood basis an individual neighborhood basis yeah okay I guess the easy answer to that is that it's not that's not the way it's done you can't I can't treat one neighborhood one way another neighborhood another way another you know I've got to treat everybody as as a whole so but what we do for situations like you is we'll separate out we'll keep the original homes in a neighborhood all of their own and then we'll just use in Bloomfield Estates Bloomfield Estates is a neighborhood that's turned over in the last really eight years or so from older homes to big big mansions so what we've done with them is we'll take the new homes and they'll be in their own neighborhood the older homes will stay in their own neighborhood so we're not commingling values of multi-million dollar properties with you know six seven hundred thousand dollar properties so we to a certain degree as far as the taxpayer goes we're keeping them separate but as far as like Headley rollbacks and those types of we can't we can't do that it's that that's not something that that's not part of the state statute so you so we'd have to we we'd have to keep them all the same so what's the gap between what you effectively can apply and what is the actual property values say that again they get there the gap between you know he said there might be a five percent increase but you can only do one mill or something yeah well when we're doing the budgets if our taxable value goes up five percent and then we have to apply the rollbacks it's about a percent reduction percent in a quarter reduction so we'll realize like four percent versus a five percent so this here is just a an example of our millage tables this one's 2025 mill millage rate so that's current tax year these are the other authorities in the in the county that you'll that you'll see on your tax bills so so what Henley really does it doesn't limit millage it limits revenue well because revenue is the guideline it limits the millage because and then which in turn limits the revenue no I think I would say the revenue dictates the millage the headley doesn't allow you to take in

  31. we'd have to we we'd have to keep them all the same so what's the gap between what you effectively can apply and what is the actual property values say that again they get there the gap between you know he said there might be a five percent increase but you can only do one mill or something yeah well when we're doing the budgets if our taxable value goes up five percent and then we have to apply the rollbacks it's about a percent reduction percent in a quarter reduction so we'll realize like four percent versus a five percent so this here is just a an example of our millage tables this one's 2025 mill millage rate so that's current tax year these are the other authorities in the in the county that you'll that you'll see on your tax bills so so what Henley really does it doesn't limit millage it limits revenue well because revenue is the guideline it limits the millage because and then which in turn limits the revenue no I think I would say the revenue dictates the millage the headley doesn't allow you to take in more revenue if you get more revenue you have to reduce the millage to compensate for that headley reduce well headley reduces the millage rate which in turn reduces what well for the following year yeah I get that right but it's good it's driven by the amount of money you take in the right well yeah I mean those yeah those are factors of it yeah that doesn't make sense because it because a community that is vibrant that is inviting people to build to create they're being punished because they're there they are because the revenues coming in it's not hurting the ones that are there they're not getting changed but it's the same you recall I mean part of you know full transparency part of the reason of Hedley is that if you recall back in the 60s and 70s when things were blooming and houses were being built and school districts and looking miss palies were just breaking Reagan in the cash yeah because they were milling they were just the board of trustees or a city commission or whatever they say well that we're gonna raise the millage by two mills or five because you want to do this and the state Hedley said no you can't do that you know I mean just being

  32. would say the revenue dictates the millage the headley doesn't allow you to take in more revenue if you get more revenue you have to reduce the millage to compensate for that headley reduce well headley reduces the millage rate which in turn reduces what well for the following year yeah I get that right but it's good it's driven by the amount of money you take in the right well yeah I mean those yeah those are factors of it yeah that doesn't make sense because it because a community that is vibrant that is inviting people to build to create they're being punished because they're there they are because the revenues coming in it's not hurting the ones that are there they're not getting changed but it's the same you recall I mean part of you know full transparency part of the reason of Hedley is that if you recall back in the 60s and 70s when things were blooming and houses were being built and school districts and looking miss palies were just breaking Reagan in the cash yeah because they were milling they were just the board of trustees or a city commission or whatever they say well that we're gonna raise the millage by two mills or five because you want to do this and the state Hedley said no you can't do that you know I mean just being being very successful and attracting new construction and and getting trust the rewards I know it's not again I get it thought process but you know that's from our all right the next slide so the next slide is what I bring to the township board on an annual basis this is our 4029 so you'll see on here If you look at this line right here, these are the original millages that were authorized on these dates for these purposes, okay? And you'll note that these are, I'm pretty sure all of them are voted with the exception of the allocated general millage. But these here are all voted millages by the residents of the township. But that's what they originally were authorized to levy, excuse me, that's what we were originally authorized to levy. Then you'll look at this column here. This was last year's millage that was levied. If you recall from one of the previous slides, that was the millage reduction fraction for 2025.

  33. this and the state Hedley said no you can't do that you know I mean just being being very successful and attracting new construction and and getting trust the rewards I know it's not again I get it thought process but you know that's from our all right the next slide so the next slide is what I bring to the township board on an annual basis this is our 4029 so you'll see on here If you look at this line right here, these are the original millages that were authorized on these dates for these purposes, okay? And you'll note that these are, I'm pretty sure all of them are voted with the exception of the allocated general millage. But these here are all voted millages by the residents of the township. But that's what they originally were authorized to levy, excuse me, that's what we were originally authorized to levy. Then you'll look at this column here. This was last year's millage that was levied. If you recall from one of the previous slides, that was the millage reduction fraction for 2025. So here is the reduced millage amount based on the millage reduction fraction. I'm not going to get into this, but if it's anything other than one, Mike will be looking for a new tax assessor. And then this is what we can maximally allow a levy right here, which will be the same as this column here. So that's our maximally reduced millage rate. And then that's what we request the levy for 2025. And then here's the expiration dates. Thank you. some of the millages and then darren if you look at those millages what is it 60 percent of them are public for public safety right yeah yeah yeah it's a big it's a big percent um and then you know i i included on the second page because this is you know this is something that goes to the board i didn't include these on my spreadsheet again because these are not township related they don't um they don't impact our 10 mil cap and um you know of course three of them three of them are

  34. If you recall from one of the previous slides, that was the millage reduction fraction for 2025. So here is the reduced millage amount based on the millage reduction fraction. I'm not going to get into this, but if it's anything other than one, Mike will be looking for a new tax assessor. And then this is what we can maximally allow a levy right here, which will be the same as this column here. So that's our maximally reduced millage rate. And then that's what we request the levy for 2025. And then here's the expiration dates. Thank you. some of the millages and then darren if you look at those millages what is it 60 percent of them are public for public safety right yeah yeah yeah it's a big it's a big percent um and then you know i i included on the second page because this is you know this is something that goes to the board i didn't include these on my spreadsheet again because these are not township related they don't um they don't impact our 10 mil cap and um you know of course three of them three of them are for a different entity anyway so um how much on the roads you have the roads the line item for roads about seven tenths of a mill the mill millage rate yeah how much money what how much money does that generate jason is about three little over three million um yeah okay all right just a general idea that's all i'm just curious generally it's it's a little over three million i'm feeling yeah so we have three million there let's say it's three million give or take and the 800 000 that we get under the contract from the county so you have a little under four million dollars in the road budget to the township am i reading that correctly about okay thanks okay all right so that's the 25 40 29. um the rest of them are um pretty much this same slide. So this is 2024's millage rates. Same as the prior year. Then you go to 2024's. Now I put this one in here to kind of give you an idea of the difference. But again, you're dealing with the source of the millage, you know, the purpose of the millage, the date of the election, the original millage amount. Then, you know, now then you see 23's millage rate.

  35. they don't um they don't impact our 10 mil cap and um you know of course three of them three of them are for a different entity anyway so um how much on the roads you have the roads the line item for roads about seven tenths of a mill the mill millage rate yeah how much money what how much money does that generate jason is about three little over three million um yeah okay all right just a general idea that's all i'm just curious generally it's it's a little over three million i'm feeling yeah so we have three million there let's say it's three million give or take and the 800 000 that we get under the contract from the county so you have a little under four million dollars in the road budget to the township am i reading that correctly about okay thanks okay all right so that's the 25 40 29. um the rest of them are um pretty much this same slide. So this is 2024's millage rates. Same as the prior year. Then you go to 2024's. Now I put this one in here to kind of give you an idea of the difference. But again, you're dealing with the source of the millage, you know, the purpose of the millage, the date of the election, the original millage amount. Then, you know, now then you see 23's millage rate. And then if you recall, the one reduction fraction was 0.9953. Then here's 24's. So if you looked at year after year after year, you would see, you know, that these numbers just kind of slide across the table. The new ones appear on the right hand side. And then the prior years kind of shift to the left a little bit. But again, it's an example of what the millage reduction fraction does to our, you know, our millage rates and our bottom line for that extent. So that's all I have. Okay, I hope I didn't bore you too much. And I will tell you that it's not an easy subject matter. And if you wanted to know a little bit more about it, I'm certainly one of those guys that I can, I'll talk to your ear off about it. But it's probably easier if you just give me a call or come in. I prefer, I would prefer phone call or in person versus email because responding to some of the

  36. same slide. So this is 2024's millage rates. Same as the prior year. Then you go to 2024's. Now I put this one in here to kind of give you an idea of the difference. But again, you're dealing with the source of the millage, you know, the purpose of the millage, the date of the election, the original millage amount. Then, you know, now then you see 23's millage rate. And then if you recall, the one reduction fraction was 0.9953. Then here's 24's. So if you looked at year after year after year, you would see, you know, that these numbers just kind of slide across the table. The new ones appear on the right hand side. And then the prior years kind of shift to the left a little bit. But again, it's an example of what the millage reduction fraction does to our, you know, our millage rates and our bottom line for that extent. So that's all I have. Okay, I hope I didn't bore you too much. And I will tell you that it's not an easy subject matter. And if you wanted to know a little bit more about it, I'm certainly one of those guys that I can, I'll talk to your ear off about it. But it's probably easier if you just give me a call or come in. I prefer, I would prefer phone call or in person versus email because responding to some of the questions is yes this is very helpful to kind of understand where we are and how we got here because we have to kind of obviously this goes along with all the assessment that gets done it's in everybody's interest to see the assessed value of the houses go up but it's also enough everyone's interest to see that the government's participation in this keeps up with the individual homeowner who decides to redo their home or something in some way because then the streets just take away that added value that you put in they take it away by making it so their kid can't ride the bike on the street so if there is a desire to do a headley override safer roads what capacity is available not much is that that point one point two yes it's not much we I mean we're almost right up against our 10 mil cap yeah so if we overrode it it's it's something else would have to go it's then yeah it's in consequence yeah I mean we would have to let another millage fall off you know could you get us can we get a copy of

  37. questions is yes this is very helpful to kind of understand where we are and how we got here because we have to kind of obviously this goes along with all the assessment that gets done it's in everybody's interest to see the assessed value of the houses go up but it's also enough everyone's interest to see that the government's participation in this keeps up with the individual homeowner who decides to redo their home or something in some way because then the streets just take away that added value that you put in they take it away by making it so their kid can't ride the bike on the street so if there is a desire to do a headley override safer roads what capacity is available not much is that that point one point two yes it's not much we I mean we're almost right up against our 10 mil cap yeah so if we overrode it it's it's something else would have to go it's then yeah it's in consequence yeah I mean we would have to let another millage fall off you know could you get us can we get a copy of this yeah can you thanks that it's really good stuff that's very good thank you yeah I agree I think it will be good to have possible before because I had to read all those fine numbers and things but excellent presentation I appreciate that yeah what I mean it's it this subject matter is not easy to discuss with folks especially if they you know especially if you don't have any experience with it really and you're just kind of throwing stuff at people and it's not not the easiest thing in the world to digest either right on the right on the spot but I'm all more than willing to sit down and talk to anybody who wants to come in and I'll have to get you a cup of coffee before you come in question for now one is you know it's a pretty complex spreadsheet and I assume every city township every community does that right is that like a standardized thing or somebody audits that or yeah actually well it's interesting you say that because we the county actually is a responsible party for filling out the reduction calculation worksheet so it's not actually part of our review because

  38. let another millage fall off you know could you get us can we get a copy of this yeah can you thanks that it's really good stuff that's very good thank you yeah I agree I think it will be good to have possible before because I had to read all those fine numbers and things but excellent presentation I appreciate that yeah what I mean it's it this subject matter is not easy to discuss with folks especially if they you know especially if you don't have any experience with it really and you're just kind of throwing stuff at people and it's not not the easiest thing in the world to digest either right on the right on the spot but I'm all more than willing to sit down and talk to anybody who wants to come in and I'll have to get you a cup of coffee before you come in question for now one is you know it's a pretty complex spreadsheet and I assume every city township every community does that right is that like a standardized thing or somebody audits that or yeah actually well it's interesting you say that because we the county actually is a responsible party for filling out the reduction calculation worksheet so it's not actually part of our review because it's it will be part of the county's review not ours but we get reviewed every five years and the assessing business and ours is coming up next year next year second question is Susan send us a sheet showing the bonding the drain bonds and uh geo general obligation bonds this was it oh okay you yeah oh you guys already got it yeah yeah did you just make up those does that include the would it include uh sad bond you know the sad uh the road sad are revenue bonds right i believe so yeah so uh so the the you know there's a general obligation bond and there's a drainage bond you know what they're general obligation bonds that's what those that's what the road commit that's what the sad bonds are called general obligation line although each each home is going to pay for so there's the revenue generator right it's one percent over the bond rate yep yes whatever the bonds sold for it's one percent over that yeah okay i thought it

  39. reduction calculation worksheet so it's not actually part of our review because it's it will be part of the county's review not ours but we get reviewed every five years and the assessing business and ours is coming up next year next year second question is Susan send us a sheet showing the bonding the drain bonds and uh geo general obligation bonds this was it oh okay you yeah oh you guys already got it yeah yeah did you just make up those does that include the would it include uh sad bond you know the sad uh the road sad are revenue bonds right i believe so yeah so uh so the the you know there's a general obligation bond and there's a drainage bond you know what they're general obligation bonds that's what those that's what the road commit that's what the sad bonds are called general obligation line although each each home is going to pay for so there's the revenue generator right it's one percent over the bond rate yep yes whatever the bonds sold for it's one percent over that yeah okay i thought it would be a third column with the revenue bond okay no i mean that you know the township's i think done the what the one percent i mean other entities do more but you know the township really just wants these roles done so that's why they're not and we are maxed out uh as far as uh our bonding capacity uh well i'm that's not really my purview but i would say we're getting pretty darn close yeah we we went over that before that we're right at the more than like point one percent of what we can be as a township any other questions i think we're gonna have to we have one other subject um you know contact them and we'll get the answers yeah yeah call me thank you uh stop in whatever thank you very much thank you're welcome thank you you're welcome the next item though i have i want i'm going to do something here was this township um to cities um information that i brought up but i'm going to ask for to take ask for a motion to table that there's something else that jeff wanted to bring up which is more important so i'm going to ask for a motion to table that to another meeting i'll move this

  40. the bond rate yep yes whatever the bonds sold for it's one percent over that yeah okay i thought it would be a third column with the revenue bond okay no i mean that you know the township's i think done the what the one percent i mean other entities do more but you know the township really just wants these roles done so that's why they're not and we are maxed out uh as far as uh our bonding capacity uh well i'm that's not really my purview but i would say we're getting pretty darn close yeah we we went over that before that we're right at the more than like point one percent of what we can be as a township any other questions i think we're gonna have to we have one other subject um you know contact them and we'll get the answers yeah yeah call me thank you uh stop in whatever thank you very much thank you're welcome thank you you're welcome the next item though i have i want i'm going to do something here was this township um to cities um information that i brought up but i'm going to ask for to take ask for a motion to table that there's something else that jeff wanted to bring up which is more important so i'm going to ask for a motion to table that to another meeting i'll move this yeah okay i'll move to support okay uh all in favor all right all right okay but what i do want to insert here something that we need to talk about some housekeeping things about the next steps um and um what we need to concentrate on and the fact that we we just can't we just can't get this done in an hour so jeff you had some in some things why don't you go ahead i asked jeff for two items for the agenda um one is the way we organize our meetings and uh we also have that dear responsibility and if we seem to be you know try to jam all that together i think what we should do and think about as a committee is we we maybe uh instead of doing this for an hour do it for an hour and a half and to start at four o'clock rather than 4 30 and allocate so we know 45 minutes to an hour to rose and a half hour to deer so we have some predictability in a way we don't feel rushed at the end and we can't really get into it, or it's 45 minutes and 45 minutes depending on the agenda. But I think to think that we can do both discussions within an hour is probably very optimistic and probably not realistic.

  41. important so i'm going to ask for a motion to table that to another meeting i'll move this yeah okay i'll move to support okay uh all in favor all right all right okay but what i do want to insert here something that we need to talk about some housekeeping things about the next steps um and um what we need to concentrate on and the fact that we we just can't we just can't get this done in an hour so jeff you had some in some things why don't you go ahead i asked jeff for two items for the agenda um one is the way we organize our meetings and uh we also have that dear responsibility and if we seem to be you know try to jam all that together i think what we should do and think about as a committee is we we maybe uh instead of doing this for an hour do it for an hour and a half and to start at four o'clock rather than 4 30 and allocate so we know 45 minutes to an hour to rose and a half hour to deer so we have some predictability in a way we don't feel rushed at the end and we can't really get into it, or it's 45 minutes and 45 minutes depending on the agenda. But I think to think that we can do both discussions within an hour is probably very optimistic and probably not realistic. So I was suggesting maybe as a committee for the next near term, we consider maybe starting our meetings at 4 rather than 4.30 with the idea that we devote 45 minutes, an hour to roads and a half hour to the deer and see how it works out. If we don't need that time, we don't need that time. But I think right now we're trying to jam too much into a short period of time. So that's my suggestion. I think that's an excellent suggestion because the amount of work we do is a lot more than we started out with. But I'd raise an option early on as a subcommittee that doesn't require public comments and all that. So there's an option of creating a subcommittee who can look at in-depth deer's issue or in-depth the city issue or something and then present it to the full board. But what Jeff's referring to is when that subcommittee comes and presents to here and we discuss it, we're obligated with Open Meetings Act and all the other things and agendas and we just, he's right, we just don't have an hour. It's not enough.

  42. is probably very optimistic and probably not realistic. So I was suggesting maybe as a committee for the next near term, we consider maybe starting our meetings at 4 rather than 4.30 with the idea that we devote 45 minutes, an hour to roads and a half hour to the deer and see how it works out. If we don't need that time, we don't need that time. But I think right now we're trying to jam too much into a short period of time. So that's my suggestion. I think that's an excellent suggestion because the amount of work we do is a lot more than we started out with. But I'd raise an option early on as a subcommittee that doesn't require public comments and all that. So there's an option of creating a subcommittee who can look at in-depth deer's issue or in-depth the city issue or something and then present it to the full board. But what Jeff's referring to is when that subcommittee comes and presents to here and we discuss it, we're obligated with Open Meetings Act and all the other things and agendas and we just, he's right, we just don't have an hour. It's not enough. time just you know I'd say I would suggest we try it for a month or two and see you know we're not locked into anything but at least not feel this compression I agree and what I would also ask and I don't know if this was possible with his presentation one of you gentlemen said we could have things in advance instead of it being a let's go through each slide and let me I mean we should we're smart I mean I don't have to say that we're all accomplished enough we can grab the information read it digest it and come and have an interaction okay I'm really not no I just want to clarify okay that's fine thank you anyway that would be my comment about how to be more effective and I agree Jeff with anybody object to us starting half an hour early starting at four o'clock anybody have a big problem with that I mean personally I agree I think we should try it okay let's try it for a couple of months and see if we don't need a vote okay next six o'clock could be fine with somebody's going to make a

  43. time just you know I'd say I would suggest we try it for a month or two and see you know we're not locked into anything but at least not feel this compression I agree and what I would also ask and I don't know if this was possible with his presentation one of you gentlemen said we could have things in advance instead of it being a let's go through each slide and let me I mean we should we're smart I mean I don't have to say that we're all accomplished enough we can grab the information read it digest it and come and have an interaction okay I'm really not no I just want to clarify okay that's fine thank you anyway that would be my comment about how to be more effective and I agree Jeff with anybody object to us starting half an hour early starting at four o'clock anybody have a big problem with that I mean personally I agree I think we should try it okay let's try it for a couple of months and see if we don't need a vote okay next six o'clock could be fine with somebody's going to make a presentation to us they have to whatever material they're going to present has to be given to her 24 hours Well, my only thing with that is you can say that, but I don't want to tell someone where you can't present it because you didn't give it to us in enough time. So the idea would be to tell them, anybody who's presenting, they expect to get a day's notice, that they have it to digest it, at least a day, maybe more than a day, God forbid. But to say that I don't want to see the presentation because we haven't seen it again, I don't think is right. But can't we differentiate between somebody that wants to orally present to us versus somebody that wants us to go through a PowerPoint presentation? I don't know. Don't forget, they're doing this at our request. That's their job. That's their job. So give them a deadline. Give them a deadline. Or try to be reasonable about asking people to do things. Any other group, any other committee, commission, whatever, they get a packet. Ahead of time.

  44. a vote okay next six o'clock could be fine with somebody's going to make a presentation to us they have to whatever material they're going to present has to be given to her 24 hours Well, my only thing with that is you can say that, but I don't want to tell someone where you can't present it because you didn't give it to us in enough time. So the idea would be to tell them, anybody who's presenting, they expect to get a day's notice, that they have it to digest it, at least a day, maybe more than a day, God forbid. But to say that I don't want to see the presentation because we haven't seen it again, I don't think is right. But can't we differentiate between somebody that wants to orally present to us versus somebody that wants us to go through a PowerPoint presentation? I don't know. Don't forget, they're doing this at our request. That's their job. That's their job. So give them a deadline. Give them a deadline. Or try to be reasonable about asking people to do things. Any other group, any other committee, commission, whatever, they get a packet. Ahead of time. And in that packet are these presentations, for the most part. Yes. Of course, public comment's not. But they are. So it's not unreasonable to ask. I agree. Do it ahead of time and give us something if they can. We can do our homework and... All right, Jeff, you had something else. Go ahead. Okay, the second thing was this handout that I gave it, I handed it out to us at the last meeting. And this is just an attempt to help organize as we go forward. And as we have... different resources come to present these are some things I had on my mind and I'd like to ask the various people and so what I wanted to do is just get and this is not all inclusive I mean I'm sure that there's a lot more we want to add but I think would help the presenters and also help the committee as we go through if we identify to the you know as we sit here tonight it'll change we recognize that but be able to identify what we're trying to find by various categories so when those people come in at least they know those are the expectations which we also are starting to think about what are the information we need to identify the three or four or five options of trying to evaluate and then so this stuff comes together you know in an organized

  45. Ahead of time. And in that packet are these presentations, for the most part. Yes. Of course, public comment's not. But they are. So it's not unreasonable to ask. I agree. Do it ahead of time and give us something if they can. We can do our homework and... All right, Jeff, you had something else. Go ahead. Okay, the second thing was this handout that I gave it, I handed it out to us at the last meeting. And this is just an attempt to help organize as we go forward. And as we have... different resources come to present these are some things I had on my mind and I'd like to ask the various people and so what I wanted to do is just get and this is not all inclusive I mean I'm sure that there's a lot more we want to add but I think would help the presenters and also help the committee as we go through if we identify to the you know as we sit here tonight it'll change we recognize that but be able to identify what we're trying to find by various categories so when those people come in at least they know those are the expectations which we also are starting to think about what are the information we need to identify the three or four or five options of trying to evaluate and then so this stuff comes together you know in an organized fashion so this was my attempt to just start getting some things down and these are the things I was interested in it's a little bit finance heavy I get that but I think what would be helpful is everybody else in the committee add what they want and then pull Jeff can pull it together and then Susan as we have other presenters come in we can say here are areas of interest in your subject matter and then we know as we start to identify solutions or recommendations or options that group that we we're not don't have to go back and we have a really good additional information that's trying to be proactive instead of reactive so that's what do you want us to do what do you want to do with that right now well what I I think what we should do is this is is my cut is and I think everybody else in the committee needs to add their input and at the next meeting we'll say okay this is the game plan that what we're trying to do so Susan knows and the presenters know that this is the information we're trying to gather and you know the point is and maybe we break out some of this to a subcommittee you know because I I was going to meet with Jason in January because I'm trying to pull your question about the bond information the revenue bonds geobond when the bonds mature because my big

  46. evaluate and then so this stuff comes together you know in an organized fashion so this was my attempt to just start getting some things down and these are the things I was interested in it's a little bit finance heavy I get that but I think what would be helpful is everybody else in the committee add what they want and then pull Jeff can pull it together and then Susan as we have other presenters come in we can say here are areas of interest in your subject matter and then we know as we start to identify solutions or recommendations or options that group that we we're not don't have to go back and we have a really good additional information that's trying to be proactive instead of reactive so that's what do you want us to do what do you want to do with that right now well what I I think what we should do is this is is my cut is and I think everybody else in the committee needs to add their input and at the next meeting we'll say okay this is the game plan that what we're trying to do so Susan knows and the presenters know that this is the information we're trying to gather and you know the point is and maybe we break out some of this to a subcommittee you know because I I was going to meet with Jason in January because I'm trying to pull your question about the bond information the revenue bonds geobond when the bonds mature because my big picture thinking if we know when that stuff starts to roll off is there a possibility that we could go out and then reassign those freed up monies that are in the bonding to roads but until we know what's available the problem is that's a that's a moving target a moving target but at least we certain things that have maturities yeah I'm really trying to get a maturity schedule and see what capacity and because of that then say would we have to go to a vote I get that but say okay now we have this ability so what we'd like to go out and erase this well why don't we do that why don't we just noodle on this what you presented it and maybe yeah if we have other issues and then list out these are the issues that we have to to have a conclusion to yes and then and then go from there meanwhile the marijuana monkey business is going to go on I think years it'll say it may take years but it may not who knows and um so that money those monies may may never come or they may come next week yes we don't know and we'll assume they're not but let jeff finish what he's got yeah so anyway let's this is a cut uh let's let's i think the next meeting you're going to bring their input

  47. information the revenue bonds geobond when the bonds mature because my big picture thinking if we know when that stuff starts to roll off is there a possibility that we could go out and then reassign those freed up monies that are in the bonding to roads but until we know what's available the problem is that's a that's a moving target a moving target but at least we certain things that have maturities yeah I'm really trying to get a maturity schedule and see what capacity and because of that then say would we have to go to a vote I get that but say okay now we have this ability so what we'd like to go out and erase this well why don't we do that why don't we just noodle on this what you presented it and maybe yeah if we have other issues and then list out these are the issues that we have to to have a conclusion to yes and then and then go from there meanwhile the marijuana monkey business is going to go on I think years it'll say it may take years but it may not who knows and um so that money those monies may may never come or they may come next week yes we don't know and we'll assume they're not but let jeff finish what he's got yeah so anyway let's this is a cut uh let's let's i think the next meeting you're going to bring their input give it give your input as soon as before the meeting we have an outline to say this is the committee's outline for how it's going to work in the next couple months that sounds good that's my two cents good stuff eight cents did you have a comment you wanted to make for public comment please i don't want to cut anybody off i want you to my name is clay phillips 247 north williamsbury good to be back um just a couple of observations one i was just i took note of darren's comment uh property values are not tied to road conditions that's the underpinning of a sad so i think that's something that needs to be noted he said he can show it he's got data that can link property values to road conditions i think we'd all love to see it because one of the criticisms of the whole process has been there is no evidence that that law is being adhered to and that the whole sad funding process is wrong and if that gets challenged and if there is evidence to challenge it then a lot of stuff comes unraveled yes it does that's what you're talking about that's what it's doing

  48. this is a cut uh let's let's i think the next meeting you're going to bring their input give it give your input as soon as before the meeting we have an outline to say this is the committee's outline for how it's going to work in the next couple months that sounds good that's my two cents good stuff eight cents did you have a comment you wanted to make for public comment please i don't want to cut anybody off i want you to my name is clay phillips 247 north williamsbury good to be back um just a couple of observations one i was just i took note of darren's comment uh property values are not tied to road conditions that's the underpinning of a sad so i think that's something that needs to be noted he said he can show it he's got data that can link property values to road conditions i think we'd all love to see it because one of the criticisms of the whole process has been there is no evidence that that law is being adhered to and that the whole sad funding process is wrong and if that gets challenged and if there is evidence to challenge it then a lot of stuff comes unraveled yes it does that's what you're talking about that's what it's doing Tactical observations, when my road was getting done, I did a little bit of Googling on when is it okay to put down asphalt, 50 degrees or so seemed to be the number. The team was putting tar down, putting asphalt down in the 40s. I think they probably had a 40-degree cutoff, but there were some very cold days when they were putting top coat asphalt down. So what I forgot the guy's name a year or two ago from Oakland Road Commission said these are 40-year roads, I'm suspect. There also was in the blog a statement that there would be sweepers or teams in front of the machines pushing out gravel and stuff. I have photographs, it was a very windy day, there were leaves that were getting tarred over. So there was no team of people with blowers or sweepers. So it puts another bit of credibility that these are 40-year roads, probably not. Last thing on this last comment, I think I was here two meetings ago, maybe three, and you were getting into the deer topic. Just as a resident and as a citizen, I would ask you, don't get distracted by deer in the headlights. It's not a road topic. I think you are at risk of mission creep, scope creep.

  49. Tactical observations, when my road was getting done, I did a little bit of Googling on when is it okay to put down asphalt, 50 degrees or so seemed to be the number. The team was putting tar down, putting asphalt down in the 40s. I think they probably had a 40-degree cutoff, but there were some very cold days when they were putting top coat asphalt down. So what I forgot the guy's name a year or two ago from Oakland Road Commission said these are 40-year roads, I'm suspect. There also was in the blog a statement that there would be sweepers or teams in front of the machines pushing out gravel and stuff. I have photographs, it was a very windy day, there were leaves that were getting tarred over. So there was no team of people with blowers or sweepers. So it puts another bit of credibility that these are 40-year roads, probably not. Last thing on this last comment, I think I was here two meetings ago, maybe three, and you were getting into the deer topic. Just as a resident and as a citizen, I would ask you, don't get distracted by deer in the headlights. It's not a road topic. I think you are at risk of mission creep, scope creep. I think you should pick a couple of things. And then I would suggest also, having been in industry for a long time and public service, reviters, you have metrics. And once you get to go through this process, you have metrics. polls, you have a dashboard, where are you red, where are you yellow, where are you green, and I think Jeff's comment about here are things that you want to get into, that could be a forward-looking agenda and then you track it. Every month, every quarter, you're saying, well, this is what we said we're going to do this year, where are we, and just have a simple dashboard, scoreboard. So I think that's something that would keep the team focused, and you could really say, we did this, so if you're going back to your significant others and saying, you know, are you wasting your time, are you getting something done, and you say, well, yep, we got something done. So just an organizational management comment that might help the group not need more time. You may not need 90 minutes, you could get things done in an hour if you were focusing on fewer topics, just in the input. To be fair, we did that. We have a snapshot of where we are, I don't know if you came to the meeting, some of us made presentations and things like that. On the other part, with the deer, totally agree, and that's why we're having trouble

  50. I think you are at risk of mission creep, scope creep. I think you should pick a couple of things. And then I would suggest also, having been in industry for a long time and public service, reviters, you have metrics. And once you get to go through this process, you have metrics. polls, you have a dashboard, where are you red, where are you yellow, where are you green, and I think Jeff's comment about here are things that you want to get into, that could be a forward-looking agenda and then you track it. Every month, every quarter, you're saying, well, this is what we said we're going to do this year, where are we, and just have a simple dashboard, scoreboard. So I think that's something that would keep the team focused, and you could really say, we did this, so if you're going back to your significant others and saying, you know, are you wasting your time, are you getting something done, and you say, well, yep, we got something done. So just an organizational management comment that might help the group not need more time. You may not need 90 minutes, you could get things done in an hour if you were focusing on fewer topics, just in the input. To be fair, we did that. We have a snapshot of where we are, I don't know if you came to the meeting, some of us made presentations and things like that. On the other part, with the deer, totally agree, and that's why we're having trouble wrestling with that, and it may be the solution is we're not going to have a solution right away. And it's not, to me, it's not a heavy priority, but it may be something as simple as the impact, and I've been through some places looking for Christmas trees, where they say, you know, a lot of deer are around here, but wherever they make the sign, it raises your... ...or... ...or... ...or... ...or... ...or... Thank you. your your your your activity in your brain is it you know I better watch for them and it may be something as simple as that I'm having said that I almost hit a deer a couple weeks ago and it was you know wasn't behaving the way it should behave it should wait till the car goes by them but no so your point is well taken but I don't think you should I think it's good that we're gonna start at 4 o'clock and I don't even know that we have to like always have a half an hour separate out did separate out that's why the last meeting we had had we had two agendas closed one meeting started another and we and we're not trying to do Rosen and deer at the same meeting and you're because you're right

  51. On the other part, with the deer, totally agree, and that's why we're having trouble wrestling with that, and it may be the solution is we're not going to have a solution right away. And it's not, to me, it's not a heavy priority, but it may be something as simple as the impact, and I've been through some places looking for Christmas trees, where they say, you know, a lot of deer are around here, but wherever they make the sign, it raises your... ...or... ...or... ...or... ...or... ...or... Thank you. your your your your activity in your brain is it you know I better watch for them and it may be something as simple as that I'm having said that I almost hit a deer a couple weeks ago and it was you know wasn't behaving the way it should behave it should wait till the car goes by them but no so your point is well taken but I don't think you should I think it's good that we're gonna start at 4 o'clock and I don't even know that we have to like always have a half an hour separate out did separate out that's why the last meeting we had had we had two agendas closed one meeting started another and we and we're not trying to do Rosen and deer at the same meeting and you're because you're right that it you need to separate and focus on certain things that's correct I have not read the charter for this committee so it could be broader than I think it is but the energy seems to be around bad roads measuring the roads there was a chart that was shown at the last one about reds and yellows and greens and I had a comment about that didn't seem to tie and it didn't seem to correlate with the graphic and maybe you need to look at that a little bit harder so just like getting in and understanding what that information means and then you know how are the roads being funded and how the road what's what work really needs to be done and the earlier comment it was from Matt I sat through a lot of the pre the process meetings as well for the village and he's right I mean, there was no alternative presented. It was the gold plate or nothing. There was no good, better, best. There was no discussion of trade-offs, pros and cons about different options. It was just, here it is, you guys can afford it. And if you don't like being around, go up to your house up north, quote, that's what he said. That was a quote. Go to your house up north. That was a quote. No, no, no, this just preceded this group. Oh, okay. Last, we have to go, but what we asked Mr. Christensen, Mr. Phillips, what feedback have you received from people about the offer of $2,500?

  52. trying to do Rosen and deer at the same meeting and you're because you're right that it you need to separate and focus on certain things that's correct I have not read the charter for this committee so it could be broader than I think it is but the energy seems to be around bad roads measuring the roads there was a chart that was shown at the last one about reds and yellows and greens and I had a comment about that didn't seem to tie and it didn't seem to correlate with the graphic and maybe you need to look at that a little bit harder so just like getting in and understanding what that information means and then you know how are the roads being funded and how the road what's what work really needs to be done and the earlier comment it was from Matt I sat through a lot of the pre the process meetings as well for the village and he's right I mean, there was no alternative presented. It was the gold plate or nothing. There was no good, better, best. There was no discussion of trade-offs, pros and cons about different options. It was just, here it is, you guys can afford it. And if you don't like being around, go up to your house up north, quote, that's what he said. That was a quote. Go to your house up north. That was a quote. No, no, no, this just preceded this group. Oh, okay. Last, we have to go, but what we asked Mr. Christensen, Mr. Phillips, what feedback have you received from people about the offer of $2,500? Have you had any feedback from them? No, I just learned about it a few days ago. Okay. It seemed like a bride and pretty squirrely. $2,500. Okay. Before we... Thank you very much. One more. Go ahead, Jeff. All right. Thank you. Now, so it's subject to yours. I think, Susan, what you sent out was excellent because she went to that meeting. When I looked at the stuff, as we all did, but the one thing I found exceptionally interesting is the Kent County piece. Actually, it's a newspaper article, but click on that and see how they addressed it. I thought it was very objective, very professional. They involved, you know, Green Valley State University in it, so I thought that was some ideas for us to think about, and they did a county-wide approach rather than a township approach. So I think it's worth looking at it. I think it's worth looking at it. Okay. Yeah, and in looking at this, sometimes it's something as simple as making a sign that people People are, they can't talk to anybody else and make a participatory. It's time to talk to everybody else. But obviously, when we're going with any Ecumen law 501 forいました, police and employees Now, race is the only reason for hiatus today. Well, you think they're going to be the only way Este По It raises their awareness of what's around there, because short of giving them birth control pills, I don't know how you think you're going to, you're not going to go on Bloomfield and call the herd, I really don't believe that. Look at that, just look at that. Yeah, I will.

  53. what feedback have you received from people about the offer of $2,500? Have you had any feedback from them? No, I just learned about it a few days ago. Okay. It seemed like a bride and pretty squirrely. $2,500. Okay. Before we... Thank you very much. One more. Go ahead, Jeff. All right. Thank you. Now, so it's subject to yours. I think, Susan, what you sent out was excellent because she went to that meeting. When I looked at the stuff, as we all did, but the one thing I found exceptionally interesting is the Kent County piece. Actually, it's a newspaper article, but click on that and see how they addressed it. I thought it was very objective, very professional. They involved, you know, Green Valley State University in it, so I thought that was some ideas for us to think about, and they did a county-wide approach rather than a township approach. So I think it's worth looking at it. I think it's worth looking at it. Okay. Yeah, and in looking at this, sometimes it's something as simple as making a sign that people People are, they can't talk to anybody else and make a participatory. It's time to talk to everybody else. But obviously, when we're going with any Ecumen law 501 forいました, police and employees Now, race is the only reason for hiatus today. Well, you think they're going to be the only way Este По It raises their awareness of what's around there, because short of giving them birth control pills, I don't know how you think you're going to, you're not going to go on Bloomfield and call the herd, I really don't believe that. Look at that, just look at that. Yeah, I will. Okay, anything, any other things, I don't think you want to bring up for next time? When's our next meeting? After the first of the year, I think. Oh, January 7th of the year, so imagine when we had discussed before, we bought separate in the meeting. Right, I know. Okay, I'll talk to you tomorrow. So the next row would be maybe a week later. We have a presenter from Farmington Hills coming in, we have to do the mission statement, so January 7th is going to be just here, and then we can start. So like the 15th of January, the next row we start at 4 o'clock. So then the second meeting is January 7th. We can try, we can try. So then the meeting after that, we'll start at 4 or the split, because there's a lot to do to change that. So we have to look at, we have to look at our objectives in order, now we have to like redefine them for the second phase of the road stuff, because it's more refined and it's crystallizing now as to what we need to go after. And then the other problem I have is, like, I just throw my hands up, I don't, they talk out of two sides, this is all shown. No, this is on the record. It's still on, you guys. If you don't want it on the record, don't say it. Yeah, I'd rather, I'd rather not say it. Don't say it. I think it's confusing. It's confusing. I think it's confusing.

  54. Okay, anything, any other things, I don't think you want to bring up for next time? When's our next meeting? After the first of the year, I think. Oh, January 7th of the year, so imagine when we had discussed before, we bought separate in the meeting. Right, I know. Okay, I'll talk to you tomorrow. So the next row would be maybe a week later. We have a presenter from Farmington Hills coming in, we have to do the mission statement, so January 7th is going to be just here, and then we can start. So like the 15th of January, the next row we start at 4 o'clock. So then the second meeting is January 7th. We can try, we can try. So then the meeting after that, we'll start at 4 or the split, because there's a lot to do to change that. So we have to look at, we have to look at our objectives in order, now we have to like redefine them for the second phase of the road stuff, because it's more refined and it's crystallizing now as to what we need to go after. And then the other problem I have is, like, I just throw my hands up, I don't, they talk out of two sides, this is all shown. No, this is on the record. It's still on, you guys. If you don't want it on the record, don't say it. Yeah, I'd rather, I'd rather not say it. Don't say it. I think it's confusing. It's confusing. I think it's confusing. I vote for adjourning the meeting. I vote for adjourning the meeting. I second. Okay. Thanks, Chef, for doing that. Thank you for turning your microphone off. But I think subcommittees can we can... Well... You