the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Thursday, October 30, 2025 · 62 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on October 29, 2025

Summary

City council meeting discusses road funding issues, infrastructure, and deer management, with attendees providing feedback and suggestions for potential solutions.

  • Road funding and infrastructure issues were discussed, with some questioning the effectiveness of current solutions.
  • Council members discussed potential changes to the township's structure and budget, seeking information on consequences and ramifications.
  • Deer management was a major topic, with discussion on potential solutions including sharpshooting, sterilization, and repellents.
  • Residents expressed concerns about road conditions and deer population, with some sharing research and ideas for addressing the problems.
  • Council discussed prioritizing road and deer management, considering a flexible timeline and potential township involvement in SADs.

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Topics

Transcript

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  1. Call the media to order please. We have a quorum tonight. Jeff Hockman won't be here. He's on his way back from England. No, I mean California. We were just talking about England. Sorry. He won't be here. John Schropp contacted me also. He's a new alternate. Yeah, we have two new alternates. Lynn and Jeff. John. And he's also not available today. And Lynn wants to know some things that we'll have to get together. She wants me to contact her about commitment issues or whatever it is. And we'll talk about it and I'll get back with her. So what we do have tonight on the agenda is three things basically. The first thing I wanted to do is I wanted to get your comments, reaction if you got any, if anybody called you or anything about the presentation that we did two weeks ago. And I want to know if we, should we have done it differently? What could we have done to make it better? What have people contacted you, anybody? So I just want to open it up. We don't take very long. I just want to open it up and see, you know, what ideas you had, what you thought. Well, personally, I thought it was really good. Okay. And even my wife thought it was pretty good. And she is an English major. Was she a tough critic? She's always, well, it's not critical. But she said, well, you should have done this and that. But no, it was to the point. And it was at the end of our presentation, the way I look at it, you truly understood what the issue, issues were and what they weren't. And what. we were going to talk about and what we weren't going to talk about. And so that's the best presentation. And she went through it and I said, well, I thought it was good. I thought everybody in the slides were expertly done. I mean, it was good. So what did she say we should have done? You said she said some things we should have done. She's not on the committee, so. Well, she didn't like the fact that I read off the stuff up there. I said, well, you can give the lecture next time. No, she was, but I think the people in the audience had the same reaction. They didn't say, oh, this is like a waste of time. Well, that's what Jeff, we had a conversation. He's not going to be here, but we had a conversation just two days ago, I guess it was. And he said the very same thing. He said, I was reading the room and everybody was going like this, not this. And I thought, that's a very positive thing. Not that we had a big crowd, maybe 30 people, whatever it was, but still, okay.

  2. She's always, well, it's not critical. But she said, well, you should have done this and that. But no, it was to the point. And it was at the end of our presentation, the way I look at it, you truly understood what the issue, issues were and what they weren't. And what. we were going to talk about and what we weren't going to talk about. And so that's the best presentation. And she went through it and I said, well, I thought it was good. I thought everybody in the slides were expertly done. I mean, it was good. So what did she say we should have done? You said she said some things we should have done. She's not on the committee, so. Well, she didn't like the fact that I read off the stuff up there. I said, well, you can give the lecture next time. No, she was, but I think the people in the audience had the same reaction. They didn't say, oh, this is like a waste of time. Well, that's what Jeff, we had a conversation. He's not going to be here, but we had a conversation just two days ago, I guess it was. And he said the very same thing. He said, I was reading the room and everybody was going like this, not this. And I thought, that's a very positive thing. Not that we had a big crowd, maybe 30 people, whatever it was, but still, okay. The first group? I felt the same from the trustees and members, you know, of the township. I thought they accepted it and they understood, and I feel we did a good job of informing them. I agree. Yeah, I agree, and the comments I did hear came from a lot of the staff that watched the presentation, and they were shocked when that PACER rating went up there and all that red. Judge Redmond said that's why I want it to be- That's why I wanted to give you- So I thought it was well done. Everyone who spoke was, did well and the slides were exceptional. And it was technical. It was like, someone went through a lot of rigmarole, especially the PACER stuff that, John, it was very, very good. I mean, it was, I don't know, it couldn't have been better, so anyway. I think everybody walked out with a clear understanding, yes, it's a problem and it's a money problem. Or it's a, we require focus from the Oakland County Road Commission to spend some dimes on getting our stuff done. It became very apparent.

  3. Not that we had a big crowd, maybe 30 people, whatever it was, but still, okay. The first group? I felt the same from the trustees and members, you know, of the township. I thought they accepted it and they understood, and I feel we did a good job of informing them. I agree. Yeah, I agree, and the comments I did hear came from a lot of the staff that watched the presentation, and they were shocked when that PACER rating went up there and all that red. Judge Redmond said that's why I want it to be- That's why I wanted to give you- So I thought it was well done. Everyone who spoke was, did well and the slides were exceptional. And it was technical. It was like, someone went through a lot of rigmarole, especially the PACER stuff that, John, it was very, very good. I mean, it was, I don't know, it couldn't have been better, so anyway. I think everybody walked out with a clear understanding, yes, it's a problem and it's a money problem. Or it's a, we require focus from the Oakland County Road Commission to spend some dimes on getting our stuff done. It became very apparent. I was surprised that we didn't get more questions from the board of trustees, from the trustees. But that's okay. I guess they just accepted, like you said, and that was the end of that, so I guess that was good. The question that I did get from Mark, the trustee, and that's the information that Sue forwarded to you, is that when I ran the PACER diagrams for Bloomfield Township, I toggled between a filter that says, is it federally funded or not, that gave me the main roads versus the neighborhood roads. And so what I did the same for Oakland County and toggled it off and said, okay, there's no federal funding for Oakland County. Show me the roads, the chart that was in the presentation. I don't know. had cities and everything in it which pay for their own roads they don't they get pa 51 money so then i went back after the meeting that night and re-ran the charts and that's what got sent out to you guys as a copy that here's what the presentation was sue's got that up there now that's what's in the presentation and i for whatever reason didn't leave out the cities and villages that did get money and on the next slide i created again and again you see plenty of

  4. I was surprised that we didn't get more questions from the board of trustees, from the trustees. But that's okay. I guess they just accepted, like you said, and that was the end of that, so I guess that was good. The question that I did get from Mark, the trustee, and that's the information that Sue forwarded to you, is that when I ran the PACER diagrams for Bloomfield Township, I toggled between a filter that says, is it federally funded or not, that gave me the main roads versus the neighborhood roads. And so what I did the same for Oakland County and toggled it off and said, okay, there's no federal funding for Oakland County. Show me the roads, the chart that was in the presentation. I don't know. had cities and everything in it which pay for their own roads they don't they get pa 51 money so then i went back after the meeting that night and re-ran the charts and that's what got sent out to you guys as a copy that here's what the presentation was sue's got that up there now that's what's in the presentation and i for whatever reason didn't leave out the cities and villages that did get money and on the next slide i created again and again you see plenty of red there's some yellow in it but the cities and villages have been omitted on that so it's still a problem but he brought up a good point like okay if it's if it's only for townships then why is pontiac in here it's like i don't know i turned the filter he made another good i thought he made one point that he said that the condition of the roads in the cities and villages is no different it's just just as bad even though they get i know that's true he said that it looked like it well i don't know if it's true but but if that is the case then yeah that that's a good point but i don't know what he said was true he just said it well we didn't i didn't check it yeah from the picture it seems that way but that that's a worse problem so if they're getting funding and their roads are just as bad then how do they fix it so anyhow so it's been updated anybody else we were just talking about the reaction to the presentation um the other last week um yes yeah i'm gonna say my only comment it was is that and i and i understand this is for a topic for a follow-up of going forward but i think that we still have to address at some point how we got here and it's not just the age of the roads you know and and i think at that point it's where the township and

  5. and villages that did get money and on the next slide i created again and again you see plenty of red there's some yellow in it but the cities and villages have been omitted on that so it's still a problem but he brought up a good point like okay if it's if it's only for townships then why is pontiac in here it's like i don't know i turned the filter he made another good i thought he made one point that he said that the condition of the roads in the cities and villages is no different it's just just as bad even though they get i know that's true he said that it looked like it well i don't know if it's true but but if that is the case then yeah that that's a good point but i don't know what he said was true he just said it well we didn't i didn't check it yeah from the picture it seems that way but that that's a worse problem so if they're getting funding and their roads are just as bad then how do they fix it so anyhow so it's been updated anybody else we were just talking about the reaction to the presentation um the other last week um yes yeah i'm gonna say my only comment it was is that and i and i understand this is for a topic for a follow-up of going forward but i think that we still have to address at some point how we got here and it's not just the age of the roads you know and and i think at that point it's where the township and and other communities have to take some responsibility for making sure that we fix the root cause which i still believe is is massive construction of much bigger housing in our in our neighborhoods if we don't fix that we're going to spend a load of money fixing the roads and in 10 years they're going to be right back where they are okay and i accept that that's not part of the first report but i i believe it's something i feel strongly that it's something that we have to address at some point the next time we could be included in part of the solution weight limits right you know or something who knows right okay anybody else have a comment okay then the next thing that we need to the next major thing we have to talk about is what's next what do we do next so i'm just i'm just let you leave it open what what you know we what do you think we should be doing next well we heard that we lost some money some constitutional money so excuse me excuse me when we get um you

  6. not just the age of the roads you know and and i think at that point it's where the township and and other communities have to take some responsibility for making sure that we fix the root cause which i still believe is is massive construction of much bigger housing in our in our neighborhoods if we don't fix that we're going to spend a load of money fixing the roads and in 10 years they're going to be right back where they are okay and i accept that that's not part of the first report but i i believe it's something i feel strongly that it's something that we have to address at some point the next time we could be included in part of the solution weight limits right you know or something who knows right okay anybody else have a comment okay then the next thing that we need to the next major thing we have to talk about is what's next what do we do next so i'm just i'm just let you leave it open what what you know we what do you think we should be doing next well we heard that we lost some money some constitutional money so excuse me excuse me when we get um you When the appropriate people from the township learn what was lost and have a chance to go back and look at what that means, I'd like to hear from them. To see, you know, because we lost money and then they gave money. Well, what's the net? And so what's the consequence of the loss of the money? And also then hear from the road commission as to what are we getting? And what potentially are we getting? It looked like $174 million over. Call it the COVID cough. Sorry. Would you like a cough drop? A lozenge? Yeah, a cough drop. There you go. Thank you very much. That's from Mike. I call that the COVID cough. That was discreet. I hear that going around. I recognize that cough. Thank you. So. You've diagnosed. So I just have my health, my annual physical, so I don't think I have COVID, but so, and so in any case, that's what I, I think, but I want to hear from the township and I'm not, you know, they've got to have time to, to do their analysis. But I think that would be helpful.

  7. When the appropriate people from the township learn what was lost and have a chance to go back and look at what that means, I'd like to hear from them. To see, you know, because we lost money and then they gave money. Well, what's the net? And so what's the consequence of the loss of the money? And also then hear from the road commission as to what are we getting? And what potentially are we getting? It looked like $174 million over. Call it the COVID cough. Sorry. Would you like a cough drop? A lozenge? Yeah, a cough drop. There you go. Thank you very much. That's from Mike. I call that the COVID cough. That was discreet. I hear that going around. I recognize that cough. Thank you. So. You've diagnosed. So I just have my health, my annual physical, so I don't think I have COVID, but so, and so in any case, that's what I, I think, but I want to hear from the township and I'm not, you know, they've got to have time to, to do their analysis. But I think that would be helpful. So, yeah, I think we could probably come in, bring our finance director in and talk about, I don't think our, our number that we're going to lose out of constitutional as high as we first thought. It's like a change. moving target but I also would like to bring back in the Road Commission Gary Petrovich and tell us what they're seeing from Lansing and what some of their ideas that they're tossing around to maybe get an update on what to expect and what's the process and what are they and they're still sorting it out but what how do they think it's going to work what's the timing those kinds of things right do they do they even have do they even have the scale on no it's okay in our packet we had one of the final pages was the depiction of the expense of the SADs and the famous or infamous arrow that said it's right she's thank you for listening to me she's gonna pull it up why am I bringing that up and I'm trying to answer your question so or kind of if I may say we have five sections we the village has five sections the fifth section which is under I don't

  8. But I think that would be helpful. So, yeah, I think we could probably come in, bring our finance director in and talk about, I don't think our, our number that we're going to lose out of constitutional as high as we first thought. It's like a change. moving target but I also would like to bring back in the Road Commission Gary Petrovich and tell us what they're seeing from Lansing and what some of their ideas that they're tossing around to maybe get an update on what to expect and what's the process and what are they and they're still sorting it out but what how do they think it's going to work what's the timing those kinds of things right do they do they even have do they even have the scale on no it's okay in our packet we had one of the final pages was the depiction of the expense of the SADs and the famous or infamous arrow that said it's right she's thank you for listening to me she's gonna pull it up why am I bringing that up and I'm trying to answer your question so or kind of if I may say we have five sections we the village has five sections the fifth section which is under I don't know what it's called officially green the greens but it's petition signing gathering whatever that is calling going on as we speak that is going to happen again right we're gonna watch this occur again which is going to be another item and I don't know that we can I don't know I just wanted to cite that as a time sensitive issue I think it is I talked to Gary at Petrovich at the road Commission About the green section asking them since they're getting this money can they come to the table, right? And so maybe that's something we bring them in and talk to them. It's real But I want to ask you a question. Let's say they come to the table and they do participate Are you gonna put me on the spot publicly in a meeting? No go ahead. I mean the reaction from the others You know the yellow the gold the red and the blue Yes, would be could you imagine? I mean, I hope we can get some money But how would the other residents who are stuck paying? fees Just Follow me. Yeah, I don't think we can go back No, you can't you can't go backwards. No, but but there's still there's a whole lot of red So like so how does the township sort out?

  9. sections we the village has five sections the fifth section which is under I don't know what it's called officially green the greens but it's petition signing gathering whatever that is calling going on as we speak that is going to happen again right we're gonna watch this occur again which is going to be another item and I don't know that we can I don't know I just wanted to cite that as a time sensitive issue I think it is I talked to Gary at Petrovich at the road Commission About the green section asking them since they're getting this money can they come to the table, right? And so maybe that's something we bring them in and talk to them. It's real But I want to ask you a question. Let's say they come to the table and they do participate Are you gonna put me on the spot publicly in a meeting? No go ahead. I mean the reaction from the others You know the yellow the gold the red and the blue Yes, would be could you imagine? I mean, I hope we can get some money But how would the other residents who are stuck paying? fees Just Follow me. Yeah, I don't think we can go back No, you can't you can't go backwards. No, but but there's still there's a whole lot of red So like so how does the township sort out? Which is you know, which is the worst the worst of the worst? I assume that the Road Commission would they they're the ones who are tracking but what I was getting at is because Mindy's in the gold section So there's gold and yellow. They've been hit the hardest the highest with SADs and then the red and the blue Were last year which were big numbers not as big as what right now, but what you're having to handle That's right. Let's say the Road Commission now decides they have the money to participate in the final SAD and it lowers the cost. Yeah, I would be red and blue red in the face You can go back on those because they would when they built the when they built the the basin under Lincoln Hills Yeah, so this is okay we were we had to there was an SAD for that and we had to pay over so many years and then all of a sudden like in the third year something changed and all of a sudden the money was there and and it was changed it went thinking they either took it away or I don't remember exactly but we did they did go back so there was an SAD approved and it went back hmm right and you know it's a you can pay it once or you can pay over time there may be some options for consideration is what I would say the answer could we please thank you for

  10. So like so how does the township sort out? Which is you know, which is the worst the worst of the worst? I assume that the Road Commission would they they're the ones who are tracking but what I was getting at is because Mindy's in the gold section So there's gold and yellow. They've been hit the hardest the highest with SADs and then the red and the blue Were last year which were big numbers not as big as what right now, but what you're having to handle That's right. Let's say the Road Commission now decides they have the money to participate in the final SAD and it lowers the cost. Yeah, I would be red and blue red in the face You can go back on those because they would when they built the when they built the the basin under Lincoln Hills Yeah, so this is okay we were we had to there was an SAD for that and we had to pay over so many years and then all of a sudden like in the third year something changed and all of a sudden the money was there and and it was changed it went thinking they either took it away or I don't remember exactly but we did they did go back so there was an SAD approved and it went back hmm right and you know it's a you can pay it once or you can pay over time there may be some options for consideration is what I would say the answer could we please thank you for saying that maybe we have an example right I think that's a healthy good conversation it's the right thing to do it's the right time to do it the thing that I thought to follow up on what you've said what you all said is that we need to again look of course with it what the new budget is going to show we know that so we need to have you know our people from the Treasury come in and then but I there are other things that we talked about what are the ramifications is what I think of other things not things that we're going to recommend but things that we've talked about that on the table for instance the changes in the road commission to a county is it a county department or something they want to change it to when there's some talk about changing that that's not maybe that what would happen if they did that I'd like to hear that the what about what are the ramifications if we decided to have a conversation about going from a township to a city okay financially legally police and fire EMS finance building and planning you know I'd like to know that before we you know as part of what just so we have information not that we're gonna recommend those things but I would like to know about that so that's where I see see us going but that's just follow up on what you all said right

  11. consideration is what I would say the answer could we please thank you for saying that maybe we have an example right I think that's a healthy good conversation it's the right thing to do it's the right time to do it the thing that I thought to follow up on what you've said what you all said is that we need to again look of course with it what the new budget is going to show we know that so we need to have you know our people from the Treasury come in and then but I there are other things that we talked about what are the ramifications is what I think of other things not things that we're going to recommend but things that we've talked about that on the table for instance the changes in the road commission to a county is it a county department or something they want to change it to when there's some talk about changing that that's not maybe that what would happen if they did that I'd like to hear that the what about what are the ramifications if we decided to have a conversation about going from a township to a city okay financially legally police and fire EMS finance building and planning you know I'd like to know that before we you know as part of what just so we have information not that we're gonna recommend those things but I would like to know about that so that's where I see see us going but that's just follow up on what you all said right getting the departments I think those are good questions to bring them in and let's talk yeah and then also the state yeah you know have her come back in again perhaps somebody else I don't know and and I don't know if even if there's any federal money if there's any federal get someone from you know our representative from Congress I don't know if there's any money there if there's anything we can we can get sure I the only thing to be fair to the Treasury Department that forgot his name already Jason Jason you want to we ought to say we want to know what would be the the consequence of us moving from what we are as a township to a different entity exactly right and so but you should give him a warning before he comes in oh yeah but there's also we want to talk to I want to talk to chief Gallagher I want to talk to fire fire department are there changes that could happen there I don't know I have no idea and so yeah that's all involved yeah yeah all right so what do you want oh good yes sorry I'm sorry you trigger something there was a discussion I think before the committee was even formed about you you

  12. about that so that's where I see see us going but that's just follow up on what you all said right getting the departments I think those are good questions to bring them in and let's talk yeah and then also the state yeah you know have her come back in again perhaps somebody else I don't know and and I don't know if even if there's any federal money if there's any federal get someone from you know our representative from Congress I don't know if there's any money there if there's anything we can we can get sure I the only thing to be fair to the Treasury Department that forgot his name already Jason Jason you want to we ought to say we want to know what would be the the consequence of us moving from what we are as a township to a different entity exactly right and so but you should give him a warning before he comes in oh yeah but there's also we want to talk to I want to talk to chief Gallagher I want to talk to fire fire department are there changes that could happen there I don't know I have no idea and so yeah that's all involved yeah yeah all right so what do you want oh good yes sorry I'm sorry you trigger something there was a discussion I think before the committee was even formed about you you contacting our federal legislators to ask if this there could be a tax deduction yeah they're working on that now Haley Stevens office is working on that we could get an update would it be appropriate to ask her or someone from her office absolutely see that's what I was talking about getting someone like her to come in tonight I talk about that but to talk about other avenues for for other federal money well you're right because we actually we just had a meeting with representative from Gary Stevens Center Gary Stevens office and we talked about the roads and we also talked about getting some money for FEMA for some areas that we need may need some attention so I agree I think that would be a nice idea so it's broader than just my budget right because if you you know where Club Drive is that runs by the Forest Lake Country Club and the lakes that are there well part of Club Drive is actually a dam and some residents have expressed concern about the strength of that dam and so we had a meeting and asked the representative from Gary Stevens office to help us take a look at this for some funding in case we want to start rebuilding that because if that were to give way lakes would drain into the Country Club and they would like Stanford up in

  13. contacting our federal legislators to ask if this there could be a tax deduction yeah they're working on that now Haley Stevens office is working on that we could get an update would it be appropriate to ask her or someone from her office absolutely see that's what I was talking about getting someone like her to come in tonight I talk about that but to talk about other avenues for for other federal money well you're right because we actually we just had a meeting with representative from Gary Stevens Center Gary Stevens office and we talked about the roads and we also talked about getting some money for FEMA for some areas that we need may need some attention so I agree I think that would be a nice idea so it's broader than just my budget right because if you you know where Club Drive is that runs by the Forest Lake Country Club and the lakes that are there well part of Club Drive is actually a dam and some residents have expressed concern about the strength of that dam and so we had a meeting and asked the representative from Gary Stevens office to help us take a look at this for some funding in case we want to start rebuilding that because if that were to give way lakes would drain into the Country Club and they would like Stanford up in Midland I was gonna say don't talk to the people in Midland yeah we'd have a similar situation So do we want to wait a certain amount of time to let the budget thing settle before we get someone to come in and talk about it? What do you want to do? I'd like to start having conversations right now. I mean, why not? We can't do anything, but at least we can start conversations and get some ideas of what they're talking about. But you could put Haley Stevens in while the budget director's doing his math. I mean, he's got to analyze. Right. Well, and some of the other things that we just talked about. Ravifications of, and we could get them to come in too. Well, how do we go about it? Can you help with that? Yeah, we'll reach out. Can you get that scheduled? Yes, we'll reach out. The first time. Okay. Well, that makes sense. All right. That'd be good. Okay. Anything else? I mean, if you're 15 minutes, we got through two items on the agenda already, you know? Any other ideas on next steps? Schedule the next presentation to the township, or is that way in the future?

  14. give way lakes would drain into the Country Club and they would like Stanford up in Midland I was gonna say don't talk to the people in Midland yeah we'd have a similar situation So do we want to wait a certain amount of time to let the budget thing settle before we get someone to come in and talk about it? What do you want to do? I'd like to start having conversations right now. I mean, why not? We can't do anything, but at least we can start conversations and get some ideas of what they're talking about. But you could put Haley Stevens in while the budget director's doing his math. I mean, he's got to analyze. Right. Well, and some of the other things that we just talked about. Ravifications of, and we could get them to come in too. Well, how do we go about it? Can you help with that? Yeah, we'll reach out. Can you get that scheduled? Yes, we'll reach out. The first time. Okay. Well, that makes sense. All right. That'd be good. Okay. Anything else? I mean, if you're 15 minutes, we got through two items on the agenda already, you know? Any other ideas on next steps? Schedule the next presentation to the township, or is that way in the future? Way in the future. Okay. We're not ready. Okay. All right. And then I know it's a lot to ask us, but not a lot to ask, but I think we have to start talking about the deer issue too. Well, that's the next item on the agenda. Okay. I want to get through this, you know, wrap this up before we get there. Okay. Okay. But you know what? I think I would like, well, we have public comment. We always do that after everything. I, I'm, my, I'm. I'm. know if you have anything that you want to talk about but I thought maybe we divide into two things now that we're finished with the road part of the B agenda if you have something that you have want to bring up you need to come up and name and all that then we'll do the deer thing and get comment on that yeah recruits just on the road okay so the road my name is Clay Phillips 247 North Williams very cool session appreciate the opportunity to beat the crowd here I'm just a couple things and just taking some notes while you're talking my recollection from the township meeting on next steps included analysis and I think there were some post-meeting conversations so I'm interested in well

  15. Schedule the next presentation to the township, or is that way in the future? Way in the future. Okay. We're not ready. Okay. All right. And then I know it's a lot to ask us, but not a lot to ask, but I think we have to start talking about the deer issue too. Well, that's the next item on the agenda. Okay. I want to get through this, you know, wrap this up before we get there. Okay. Okay. But you know what? I think I would like, well, we have public comment. We always do that after everything. I, I'm, my, I'm. I'm. know if you have anything that you want to talk about but I thought maybe we divide into two things now that we're finished with the road part of the B agenda if you have something that you have want to bring up you need to come up and name and all that then we'll do the deer thing and get comment on that yeah recruits just on the road okay so the road my name is Clay Phillips 247 North Williams very cool session appreciate the opportunity to beat the crowd here I'm just a couple things and just taking some notes while you're talking my recollection from the township meeting on next steps included analysis and I think there were some post-meeting conversations so I'm interested in well what does that mean what kind of analysis who's going to do what what is there a process is it independent and then what questions are going to be addressed and how is that going to get done and when so that's just like analysis of the big term what and when how does that get you to a milestone and and what's next more tactically on the presentation I just want to make a comment on the graphic the reds and the yellows and there was also a slide that had the two different analytical systems for the roads and the terminologies weren't equal so my point on what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map Well, it doesn't matter what sequence we, so my point on the, I'm Bloomfield Village, so I understand this is a township topic. Everything in the village looks red, but we know there was a significant section of Glengarry north of north of Bradway that was ripped up, completely rebuilt. I think it's state or federal expense 10, 15 years ago.

  16. and I think there were some post-meeting conversations so I'm interested in well what does that mean what kind of analysis who's going to do what what is there a process is it independent and then what questions are going to be addressed and how is that going to get done and when so that's just like analysis of the big term what and when how does that get you to a milestone and and what's next more tactically on the presentation I just want to make a comment on the graphic the reds and the yellows and there was also a slide that had the two different analytical systems for the roads and the terminologies weren't equal so my point on what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map what is that going to make a comment on the map Well, it doesn't matter what sequence we, so my point on the, I'm Bloomfield Village, so I understand this is a township topic. Everything in the village looks red, but we know there was a significant section of Glengarry north of north of Bradway that was ripped up, completely rebuilt. I think it's state or federal expense 10, 15 years ago. It's a great road. There's nothing wrong with it. And some of the Indian Mound roads are in pretty good shape. But throughout the village, there were clearly some pretty rough, pretty nasty, like you can only go 10 miles an hour on them. And others were perfectly good. So just anecdotally, I look at that map and I say, that doesn't resonate with what I know is going on. But if you remember in the introduction and when we talked about that, we said that this map could be an older map, and I know I said it, that the information here is not exactly correct, because you wanted it that way. And I, that's why I did it. That number one, some of the Bloomfield Village, right, those roads have been improved, and they still read because this is an older map, but also, well, it could be up to three years old. Okay, but the, but, I know you, the one you said was over 10, you got it, I get it. And it's, well, that's fine. So even if it was three years old, three years ago, a lot of the roads were crummy. Amen. Amen. and some of the roads some of the roads were good so that just triggers like i don't believe the map well i will say that we had the list of um sands and my subdivision was at the very top of that list we did it 13 years ago and our roads are really cruddy and you know that's a technical

  17. It's a great road. There's nothing wrong with it. And some of the Indian Mound roads are in pretty good shape. But throughout the village, there were clearly some pretty rough, pretty nasty, like you can only go 10 miles an hour on them. And others were perfectly good. So just anecdotally, I look at that map and I say, that doesn't resonate with what I know is going on. But if you remember in the introduction and when we talked about that, we said that this map could be an older map, and I know I said it, that the information here is not exactly correct, because you wanted it that way. And I, that's why I did it. That number one, some of the Bloomfield Village, right, those roads have been improved, and they still read because this is an older map, but also, well, it could be up to three years old. Okay, but the, but, I know you, the one you said was over 10, you got it, I get it. And it's, well, that's fine. So even if it was three years old, three years ago, a lot of the roads were crummy. Amen. Amen. and some of the roads some of the roads were good so that just triggers like i don't believe the map well i will say that we had the list of um sands and my subdivision was at the very top of that list we did it 13 years ago and our roads are really cruddy and you know that's a technical term but i mean they're really lousy and so we're really disgusted that we paid a lot of money out of pocket not what the village is paying but you know we paid out of pocket and 13 years later we're still we're back in the soup and so um i do not i'm not challenging you at all but i'm suggesting that our roads i think that that's a we're red and i think that's an accurate reflection of the status of my roads so i don't know it's it's hard to i i know 13 years but our unfortunately ours didn't last are not lasting 13 years what i'm what i'm presenting is an observation and an opinion yeah got it the picture for the bloomfield village square mile of mostly red doesn't reflect my version of your point is that you don't quite accept this map right it doesn't it doesn't ring true okay yeah and then um and then the other chart um that you had pulled up that had the two the side-by-sides um there was this the terminology the terminology yeah there we go um

  18. list we did it 13 years ago and our roads are really cruddy and you know that's a technical term but i mean they're really lousy and so we're really disgusted that we paid a lot of money out of pocket not what the village is paying but you know we paid out of pocket and 13 years later we're still we're back in the soup and so um i do not i'm not challenging you at all but i'm suggesting that our roads i think that that's a we're red and i think that's an accurate reflection of the status of my roads so i don't know it's it's hard to i i know 13 years but our unfortunately ours didn't last are not lasting 13 years what i'm what i'm presenting is an observation and an opinion yeah got it the picture for the bloomfield village square mile of mostly red doesn't reflect my version of your point is that you don't quite accept this map right it doesn't it doesn't ring true okay yeah and then um and then the other chart um that you had pulled up that had the two the side-by-sides um there was this the terminology the terminology yeah there we go um Yeah, the two, the Passer and the TAMC, whatever that means. This was just a little weird that Passer goes excellent to very good and then good, good is part of fair in the TAMC and the color coding was based on TAMC, whatever that means, and doesn't correlate with the Passer, which Passer was told. That's the evaluation of the roads. So it's just, I think there's a methodology and vocabulary problem where some things that are being coded red are actually yellow and some things that are being coded yellow are actually green. So the map, if the map was done that way, it presents a false impression. It makes it look worse than it really is. It's interesting when I did the research on how people do the rating, there's over 100 teams that go out and literally ride on the roads to make the assessment, and they have to be trained every year and make sure that there's consistency across 100-plus groups in their assessments. And they said basically it's within 10% from group A and group B,

  19. Yeah, the two, the Passer and the TAMC, whatever that means. This was just a little weird that Passer goes excellent to very good and then good, good is part of fair in the TAMC and the color coding was based on TAMC, whatever that means, and doesn't correlate with the Passer, which Passer was told. That's the evaluation of the roads. So it's just, I think there's a methodology and vocabulary problem where some things that are being coded red are actually yellow and some things that are being coded yellow are actually green. So the map, if the map was done that way, it presents a false impression. It makes it look worse than it really is. It's interesting when I did the research on how people do the rating, there's over 100 teams that go out and literally ride on the roads to make the assessment, and they have to be trained every year and make sure that there's consistency across 100-plus groups in their assessments. And they said basically it's within 10% from group A and group B, so they're using consistent things, and this is basically the chart that they end up doing the reports through. So it's weird that something would be... Well, you could have a fair yellow and a fair red. That part I understand, yeah. That's right, so I'm just... I'm just pointing out the terminology doesn't, if those colors were the things that were used for the chart, then you're not, it doesn't tie to the passer description of the passer rating. We're giving, we're presenting what we were given. I understand. Yeah. You might want to, you just might want to push back. You made some good points, and I appreciate that, because you're coming and doing that, so thank you. Thank you very much, Clay. Oh, there was just one other anecdote, I think, or comment on, there's new asphalt that's being cut up on, on the street, the streets that have just the first layer of asphalt, they're coming in and they're cutting out pretty good swatches of asphalt to do some kind of repair, so that's creating seams in the first layer, and the second layer hasn't even been put down yet, and there's a section over on Waddington that was finished last year, it was like a three or four-way intersection, and there was a team there two or three weeks ago cutting out massive pieces of asphalt, um, and, and repairing it, so.

  20. And they said basically it's within 10% from group A and group B, so they're using consistent things, and this is basically the chart that they end up doing the reports through. So it's weird that something would be... Well, you could have a fair yellow and a fair red. That part I understand, yeah. That's right, so I'm just... I'm just pointing out the terminology doesn't, if those colors were the things that were used for the chart, then you're not, it doesn't tie to the passer description of the passer rating. We're giving, we're presenting what we were given. I understand. Yeah. You might want to, you just might want to push back. You made some good points, and I appreciate that, because you're coming and doing that, so thank you. Thank you very much, Clay. Oh, there was just one other anecdote, I think, or comment on, there's new asphalt that's being cut up on, on the street, the streets that have just the first layer of asphalt, they're coming in and they're cutting out pretty good swatches of asphalt to do some kind of repair, so that's creating seams in the first layer, and the second layer hasn't even been put down yet, and there's a section over on Waddington that was finished last year, it was like a three or four-way intersection, and there was a team there two or three weeks ago cutting out massive pieces of asphalt, um, and, and repairing it, so. Do you know why? I don't know, that's why I'm, I'm just reporting what I see, and so what I remember. There were some spots that we went back and inspected, and they didn't meet the quality standard, and, and some of the, when they were laying the asphalt last year, some oil got spilled in, and we saw some damage, and deep, and defect. Oh. Yeah. But right on Williamsbury, North Williamsbury, there are two, at least. Yeah, we're just talking about our currents area, like it's being already cut up. Yeah, it might have. and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents, and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents area, I don't know what it means it's just a little weird that new asphalt that's maybe a month old is now getting cut I'll get your reason but we hired a contractor who actually retired from RCOC our eyes are on the project and so he is just taking watching everything that goes on to make sure it's done to the spec so I'll find out what happened there for you it just raises a question when the guy that was doing all the talking from the Road Commission many many many meetings I guess is gonna be a 40-year road so we're paying big money

  21. Do you know why? I don't know, that's why I'm, I'm just reporting what I see, and so what I remember. There were some spots that we went back and inspected, and they didn't meet the quality standard, and, and some of the, when they were laying the asphalt last year, some oil got spilled in, and we saw some damage, and deep, and defect. Oh. Yeah. But right on Williamsbury, North Williamsbury, there are two, at least. Yeah, we're just talking about our currents area, like it's being already cut up. Yeah, it might have. and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents, and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents area, and we're just talking about our currents area, I don't know what it means it's just a little weird that new asphalt that's maybe a month old is now getting cut I'll get your reason but we hired a contractor who actually retired from RCOC our eyes are on the project and so he is just taking watching everything that goes on to make sure it's done to the spec so I'll find out what happened there for you it just raises a question when the guy that was doing all the talking from the Road Commission many many many meetings I guess is gonna be a 40-year road so we're paying big money you know the four million dollars per mile for roads that are already being repaired yeah thank you very very much appreciate you coming you beat the crowd is still not here okay I apologize for that going off I have new hearing aids and it's tied to my phone and I turned the phone off but it still came through here and every and you could hear it sorry all right we have to hear what what what the doctor said all right next step then I guess it we're done with the roads now let's talk about deer yes oh yes please I know we got so we got some information we do from Farmington Hills from farming excuse me yeah and we got some other things so I don't know how to start this so start the conversation here so deer in headlights huh yeah so we've been receiving information from different people and then we dug up some from the communities from Rochester Hills Farmington Hills for you to look through as well as did you get a chance to also

  22. many many meetings I guess is gonna be a 40-year road so we're paying big money you know the four million dollars per mile for roads that are already being repaired yeah thank you very very much appreciate you coming you beat the crowd is still not here okay I apologize for that going off I have new hearing aids and it's tied to my phone and I turned the phone off but it still came through here and every and you could hear it sorry all right we have to hear what what what the doctor said all right next step then I guess it we're done with the roads now let's talk about deer yes oh yes please I know we got so we got some information we do from Farmington Hills from farming excuse me yeah and we got some other things so I don't know how to start this so start the conversation here so deer in headlights huh yeah so we've been receiving information from different people and then we dug up some from the communities from Rochester Hills Farmington Hills for you to look through as well as did you get a chance to also see the presentation that they did from the DNR yeah right and and so what I think we need to do is announce that we're gonna hit a public meeting that's on the agenda that we're gonna start addressing the deer issue and who should we bring in to talk to us about it maybe I don't know if we want to bring in the DNR fell again or other members of other communities that are dealing with this to kind of walk through it with us what they've been through and where they stand because we hear from some that they want to call the deer which is basically bring in sharpshooters but we're so heavy residential you can't have sharpshooters in neighborhoods you know well that's what that's and that's what Farmington Farmington Hills just that's what they're doing that's what we read but I don't know if they're doing it in the residents area I think they're doing it in parks and in commercial districts or in the country clubs where and they'll bait them I just read in the report it said that that's what they're doing right With professional sharpshooters and also people can use bow and I don't get it. Yeah, they can do it now in the township. Just got to get your hunting license and you have to be 450 feet or something away from a structure. And you have the permission of the property owner to do it.

  23. Farmington Hills for you to look through as well as did you get a chance to also see the presentation that they did from the DNR yeah right and and so what I think we need to do is announce that we're gonna hit a public meeting that's on the agenda that we're gonna start addressing the deer issue and who should we bring in to talk to us about it maybe I don't know if we want to bring in the DNR fell again or other members of other communities that are dealing with this to kind of walk through it with us what they've been through and where they stand because we hear from some that they want to call the deer which is basically bring in sharpshooters but we're so heavy residential you can't have sharpshooters in neighborhoods you know well that's what that's and that's what Farmington Farmington Hills just that's what they're doing that's what we read but I don't know if they're doing it in the residents area I think they're doing it in parks and in commercial districts or in the country clubs where and they'll bait them I just read in the report it said that that's what they're doing right With professional sharpshooters and also people can use bow and I don't get it. Yeah, they can do it now in the township. Just got to get your hunting license and you have to be 450 feet or something away from a structure. And you have the permission of the property owner to do it. If you're going on somebody else's property. Right, right. And the problem with that is that if you have someone do it, I had a friend of mine did that. He let somebody go and he found out that if he shot an arrow, missed a deer, hurt somebody, he gets sued. Yeah. So he said, you're done. So I think that's, you know, but I think what they're talking about is more professionally done. Not just people going out and doing it. No, it is. And you hire these companies and I understand that's very expensive. And then others feel that we should use an approach where you catch the deer and then you would sterilize them and then release them. And you can also, there's also chemicals out there you can spray on your plants and bushes that apparently are deer repellent. Right. Well, I can't tell you how many chemicals we've used without long-term success. Right. Yeah. If it never rained, it would be good. Or the types of plants. And then we also understand there's neighbors out there that are feeding the deer. Yes. Which is something we need to put on our website to say, please do not feed the deer. Yeah. Well, there are legalities involved in that too, of course.

  24. And you have the permission of the property owner to do it. If you're going on somebody else's property. Right, right. And the problem with that is that if you have someone do it, I had a friend of mine did that. He let somebody go and he found out that if he shot an arrow, missed a deer, hurt somebody, he gets sued. Yeah. So he said, you're done. So I think that's, you know, but I think what they're talking about is more professionally done. Not just people going out and doing it. No, it is. And you hire these companies and I understand that's very expensive. And then others feel that we should use an approach where you catch the deer and then you would sterilize them and then release them. And you can also, there's also chemicals out there you can spray on your plants and bushes that apparently are deer repellent. Right. Well, I can't tell you how many chemicals we've used without long-term success. Right. Yeah. If it never rained, it would be good. Or the types of plants. And then we also understand there's neighbors out there that are feeding the deer. Yes. Which is something we need to put on our website to say, please do not feed the deer. Yeah. Well, there are legalities involved in that too, of course. Can we get an ordinance? Yes. There is an ordinance. There's a no-feeding ordinance? It's a state law. We do not have one now. Is it a state law? It's a state law. Yeah, Mindy. May I say, I mean, I think it's really important, which is probably why you asked a group to work on this, to be as, I hate to use, as scientific as we can and objective as we can, because just from my casual feedback, this has become a very sensitive issue where we live. And I mean, strong feelings on, I don't know if there's even, you can say both sides, but kind of, I don't know, there's probably more than two sides, but, you know, different opinions are very strong. It seems like there are very few people that are, what would the word be, moderate about it. They seem to feel one way or another. It's a passionate issue. And that's a better way to say. Well, the thing of it is, if you want to, we have to, like, you're right, and we should do pretty much the same we did in the road, to get information first. It's always the best way. But the thing of it is, in this, we have to be careful. We put in some, get some from the DNR. Well, then you have to have, there's other groups that are out there. I don't know who they are. I'm not into that.

  25. Can we get an ordinance? Yes. There is an ordinance. There's a no-feeding ordinance? It's a state law. We do not have one now. Is it a state law? It's a state law. Yeah, Mindy. May I say, I mean, I think it's really important, which is probably why you asked a group to work on this, to be as, I hate to use, as scientific as we can and objective as we can, because just from my casual feedback, this has become a very sensitive issue where we live. And I mean, strong feelings on, I don't know if there's even, you can say both sides, but kind of, I don't know, there's probably more than two sides, but, you know, different opinions are very strong. It seems like there are very few people that are, what would the word be, moderate about it. They seem to feel one way or another. It's a passionate issue. And that's a better way to say. Well, the thing of it is, if you want to, we have to, like, you're right, and we should do pretty much the same we did in the road, to get information first. It's always the best way. But the thing of it is, in this, we have to be careful. We put in some, get some from the DNR. Well, then you have to have, there's other groups that are out there. I don't know who they are. I'm not into that. They're just as passionate on another way to do things. And they have to have them speak as well. You could get, you know, you could get into a real quagmire, so we have to figure out a way to do it. Oh, I watched the Farmington Hills meeting. It went on for three and a half hours. Well, that's what I mean. And then we're going to go to the Farmington Hills meeting. every other comment was the other side well that was just public comment you mean uh but there there are some things that are indisputable one is the deer whining across the road is a menace yes okay so what's the what's the solution to that have less of them what's the solution to that i think we have to go through a cascade of of objectives just that's sort of what i got out of between farmington and rochester yeah i believe um you have to figure out how do we control the herd there like someone said you can shoot with an arrow you can shoot them with a bullet you can catch them you can do all sorts of things um what's not been tried in a lot of places which as a pathologist i don't understand maybe we could give them some estrogen and they would not produce but that doesn't reduce the number of deer that are presently there that's just going produce prod progeny um and then that's what we if we start with that then we can maybe get to

  26. I'm not into that. They're just as passionate on another way to do things. And they have to have them speak as well. You could get, you know, you could get into a real quagmire, so we have to figure out a way to do it. Oh, I watched the Farmington Hills meeting. It went on for three and a half hours. Well, that's what I mean. And then we're going to go to the Farmington Hills meeting. every other comment was the other side well that was just public comment you mean uh but there there are some things that are indisputable one is the deer whining across the road is a menace yes okay so what's the what's the solution to that have less of them what's the solution to that i think we have to go through a cascade of of objectives just that's sort of what i got out of between farmington and rochester yeah i believe um you have to figure out how do we control the herd there like someone said you can shoot with an arrow you can shoot them with a bullet you can catch them you can do all sorts of things um what's not been tried in a lot of places which as a pathologist i don't understand maybe we could give them some estrogen and they would not produce but that doesn't reduce the number of deer that are presently there that's just going produce prod progeny um and then that's what we if we start with that then we can maybe get to offer some solutions i i mean and the board of supervisors is going to have to make a decision but there are certain things that are indisputable and that's that there is a rule that the state has on the books that you are not supposed to feed the deer and if you do feed the deer there has to be a demonstrable consequence to that because it doesn't help it doesn't help them even though we've not any chronic wasting disease as far as i could see from the maps from the dnr oakland county is pretty clean and um but that's and just go through a process not dissimilar to what jeff had set up for the for the other you know the the law the state law was pretty well defined in the presentation in the in the resolution from farmington hills yeah they said whereas whereas whereas and they went through that feeding assaulting feeding yeah if you have you're in a handicapped uh excuse me i don't know if you're challenged um and you're in a wheelchair for instance you have different rules so there are there are a lot of things in that law so that's what i would it was well defined in in the that's what i think we we could at least start with that and just build upon it just like brick by brick

  27. produce prod progeny um and then that's what we if we start with that then we can maybe get to offer some solutions i i mean and the board of supervisors is going to have to make a decision but there are certain things that are indisputable and that's that there is a rule that the state has on the books that you are not supposed to feed the deer and if you do feed the deer there has to be a demonstrable consequence to that because it doesn't help it doesn't help them even though we've not any chronic wasting disease as far as i could see from the maps from the dnr oakland county is pretty clean and um but that's and just go through a process not dissimilar to what jeff had set up for the for the other you know the the law the state law was pretty well defined in the presentation in the in the resolution from farmington hills yeah they said whereas whereas whereas and they went through that feeding assaulting feeding yeah if you have you're in a handicapped uh excuse me i don't know if you're challenged um and you're in a wheelchair for instance you have different rules so there are there are a lot of things in that law so that's what i would it was well defined in in the that's what i think we we could at least start with that and just build upon it just like brick by brick yes sir in the farmington hills resolution they referred to a couple different groups and one was the southeast michigan urban deer coalition and uh there's more than 25 groups uh communities and organizations in seven uh counties i think that would be a group we might want to hear from um so we have to google and you know identify them but i think that would be a group to to have come and talk to us about what they found and what's worked and what hasn't worked and you know it doesn't mean we have to accept them but i just want to hear i mean if why reinvent the wheel you you you you you you you you And the next one dealt with the deer management plan and managing deer within suburban communities from the DNR. So I would like to hear what or receive what is the deer management plan and what are they suggesting for suburban and urban communities. So I'd like to get my hands on that plan. And finally, the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments had a study dealing with perception on deer, too.

  28. that's what i think we we could at least start with that and just build upon it just like brick by brick yes sir in the farmington hills resolution they referred to a couple different groups and one was the southeast michigan urban deer coalition and uh there's more than 25 groups uh communities and organizations in seven uh counties i think that would be a group we might want to hear from um so we have to google and you know identify them but i think that would be a group to to have come and talk to us about what they found and what's worked and what hasn't worked and you know it doesn't mean we have to accept them but i just want to hear i mean if why reinvent the wheel you you you you you you you you And the next one dealt with the deer management plan and managing deer within suburban communities from the DNR. So I would like to hear what or receive what is the deer management plan and what are they suggesting for suburban and urban communities. So I'd like to get my hands on that plan. And finally, the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments had a study dealing with perception on deer, too. And so I'd like to that's just getting this getting our hands on the study and making it available to review. But I think the Southeast Michigan Urban Deer Coalition is somebody that I think. Let's start with. Yeah, I think. Have you vetted them? Do you know who they are? I don't. See, I was going to suggest that we need to vet the group that we want to invite. You know, you never know what you're going to get. That's a good idea. So that's, so, I mean, if you want, I can look at it and, you know, send you a note. Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of, I'm sorry for interrupting. No, no, go ahead. I think, I don't mean to, Dr. Sarian, I hold you in very high regard and you know that. But I just want to say that you're, so, so the people thinking that there are too many deer and there are many, not everyone agrees with that. Well, I'm just saying. I agree. I totally understand that. I know you do. So if we, but we have to really be on vibe. Have you heard from both sides of the. this issue or what okay I would think you had okay I'm just saying we don't want public comment yeah at the end okay we'll get you we'll get you okay so one of my thoughts just from the standpoint of coming up with a solution is one

  29. And finally, the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments had a study dealing with perception on deer, too. And so I'd like to that's just getting this getting our hands on the study and making it available to review. But I think the Southeast Michigan Urban Deer Coalition is somebody that I think. Let's start with. Yeah, I think. Have you vetted them? Do you know who they are? I don't. See, I was going to suggest that we need to vet the group that we want to invite. You know, you never know what you're going to get. That's a good idea. So that's, so, I mean, if you want, I can look at it and, you know, send you a note. Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of, I'm sorry for interrupting. No, no, go ahead. I think, I don't mean to, Dr. Sarian, I hold you in very high regard and you know that. But I just want to say that you're, so, so the people thinking that there are too many deer and there are many, not everyone agrees with that. Well, I'm just saying. I agree. I totally understand that. I know you do. So if we, but we have to really be on vibe. Have you heard from both sides of the. this issue or what okay I would think you had okay I'm just saying we don't want public comment yeah at the end okay we'll get you we'll get you okay so one of my thoughts just from the standpoint of coming up with a solution is one thing does it make sense though once you have a solution that you think is going that we think is going to work do you let the township citizens vote on it sort of sort of releases everybody from from the obligation of you know you're the Bambi killer type of thing and see what see what the deal with the residents have a have a have a position that would be that would be a position that the Board of Trustees would have to weigh in on after if we come up with solutions report to them say here's we think then they would take over and say and then they could make a motion or somebody there could say yeah you're right we need to have a public we need to have a referendum on this or they could say no we're the Board of Trustees you elected us it's a republic not a pure democracy this is a republic and so we're going to represent so we're gonna vote I mean they could do that that's up to them that wouldn't be up to us no I think that's suggesting it would be up to us it's just up to us I think to make a recommendation that here are the two different directions you can go you can do it by you can do it by edict or you can do it by rough give them options yeah

  30. of my thoughts just from the standpoint of coming up with a solution is one thing does it make sense though once you have a solution that you think is going that we think is going to work do you let the township citizens vote on it sort of sort of releases everybody from from the obligation of you know you're the Bambi killer type of thing and see what see what the deal with the residents have a have a have a position that would be that would be a position that the Board of Trustees would have to weigh in on after if we come up with solutions report to them say here's we think then they would take over and say and then they could make a motion or somebody there could say yeah you're right we need to have a public we need to have a referendum on this or they could say no we're the Board of Trustees you elected us it's a republic not a pure democracy this is a republic and so we're going to represent so we're gonna vote I mean they could do that that's up to them that wouldn't be up to us no I think that's suggesting it would be up to us it's just up to us I think to make a recommendation that here are the two different directions you can go you can do it by you can do it by edict or you can do it by rough give them options yeah recommend one way yeah okay got it one of the thing is that we're we're this group is wearing two hats and so we might want to call it the deer slash or the road slash deer advisory committee so that when we post you know here's the here's the agenda you just look at the heading the road advisory committee you wouldn't think that we're talking about deer so we're not we're not stealth we're not hiding we're not we're not trying to do this under the cover of dark so I think that we may want to change the name of this group to include the word deer so that the public knows that it's formed we're working on it and that they can weigh in if they wish regardless of the position the last time at the last meeting and I likened it to what the Planning Commission does with the water with the wetlands board okay the Planning Commission is becomes the wetlands board when something comes up however it has its own agenda it's publicly noticed separately okay and they're two separate even though the same people the two separate categories and I in my opinion I mean every one vote out of all of us I

  31. recommend one way yeah okay got it one of the thing is that we're we're this group is wearing two hats and so we might want to call it the deer slash or the road slash deer advisory committee so that when we post you know here's the here's the agenda you just look at the heading the road advisory committee you wouldn't think that we're talking about deer so we're not we're not stealth we're not hiding we're not we're not trying to do this under the cover of dark so I think that we may want to change the name of this group to include the word deer so that the public knows that it's formed we're working on it and that they can weigh in if they wish regardless of the position the last time at the last meeting and I likened it to what the Planning Commission does with the water with the wetlands board okay the Planning Commission is becomes the wetlands board when something comes up however it has its own agenda it's publicly noticed separately okay and they're two separate even though the same people the two separate categories and I in my opinion I mean every one vote out of all of us I think that's what it should be done it should be the road advisory committee and I guess dear advisory I don't know what do you want to call it but have it so each one have its own agenda great I didn't separate it out like that that's what I think that's great and I like that I just want the public to know and be fully informed, because that's what we want, and I want them to be able to know that. Okay. What I think we should do then is, again, do the same, pretty much follow the same path that we did before with the roads. Is that we should start calling, having people come in, and not more, and only one at a time. In other words, we get one side in one meeting, okay? The DNR, and I don't know what side there, I don't know, but let's just say that's one side. Then the group, like you suggest, that may have a different viewpoint, have them come in and speak to us, and then another group, maybe. And then the public comment, well, anybody can say whatever they want, but presentation-wise, it should be something, and we need to vet the group. I really believe that. You can't just call somebody in, because it could be, I'm not saying they are, I have no idea, but you can call someone and say you want to call, and they could be a bunch of crackpots. I don't know. You know, so we need to make sure they are legitimate, you know, representing, you know. I looked at the resolution, and the name looked like somebody we might want to hear from.

  32. think that's what it should be done it should be the road advisory committee and I guess dear advisory I don't know what do you want to call it but have it so each one have its own agenda great I didn't separate it out like that that's what I think that's great and I like that I just want the public to know and be fully informed, because that's what we want, and I want them to be able to know that. Okay. What I think we should do then is, again, do the same, pretty much follow the same path that we did before with the roads. Is that we should start calling, having people come in, and not more, and only one at a time. In other words, we get one side in one meeting, okay? The DNR, and I don't know what side there, I don't know, but let's just say that's one side. Then the group, like you suggest, that may have a different viewpoint, have them come in and speak to us, and then another group, maybe. And then the public comment, well, anybody can say whatever they want, but presentation-wise, it should be something, and we need to vet the group. I really believe that. You can't just call somebody in, because it could be, I'm not saying they are, I have no idea, but you can call someone and say you want to call, and they could be a bunch of crackpots. I don't know. You know, so we need to make sure they are legitimate, you know, representing, you know. I looked at the resolution, and the name looked like somebody we might want to hear from. Right. But I have not followed up in Google. But it's good to be cautious. You're not kidding. Yeah. Because you can't go backwards. So, Mike, do you want one of us to, I can look at that and try to, you know, I can send you. Yeah. Send it over to Sue. I think we know about them, but send what you have and let us reach out to them. Okay. I think we've read about them. There's a lot of communities here that are part of that. And then there's the Michigan. Michigan. sportsmen against hunger program which I think is a pretty universal I don't know if that's Ted Nugent's thing or not but it's you see it come up in a few plus so it might be good if we could have them or you know just you want to hear from all of them yeah but not crack we're not well these are crack the DNR the DNR public comment yeah I mean if we invite somebody well they work with the DNR so that stands some kind of normalcy so that would be the next step is to get get these same thing and then we'll start there and then now public comment oh is that okay we done tonight I'll do I'll look at those okay and um get get some

  33. I looked at the resolution, and the name looked like somebody we might want to hear from. Right. But I have not followed up in Google. But it's good to be cautious. You're not kidding. Yeah. Because you can't go backwards. So, Mike, do you want one of us to, I can look at that and try to, you know, I can send you. Yeah. Send it over to Sue. I think we know about them, but send what you have and let us reach out to them. Okay. I think we've read about them. There's a lot of communities here that are part of that. And then there's the Michigan. Michigan. sportsmen against hunger program which I think is a pretty universal I don't know if that's Ted Nugent's thing or not but it's you see it come up in a few plus so it might be good if we could have them or you know just you want to hear from all of them yeah but not crack we're not well these are crack the DNR the DNR public comment yeah I mean if we invite somebody well they work with the DNR so that stands some kind of normalcy so that would be the next step is to get get these same thing and then we'll start there and then now public comment oh is that okay we done tonight I'll do I'll look at those okay and um get get some more details submit us to what they are okay send that to soup okay yes sir need name and address please five different 53 55 provincial drive in the township it disturbs me that the information presented to you from the DNR in my mind was misleading here's why and I'm an engineer so I get to quantify everything you want to you want to have an idea of what the growth rate of the DRR their graph was totally misleading if I can use imagination here vertical and horizontal axis they had it going up from zero at a constant rate and then leveled off into call it a sinusoidal curve ups and downs that's completely misleading it doesn't start out at a strong rate it's like uh i'm a i'm a nuclear baby where you get under the desk when the bombs start falling you saw the you saw the advertisements where they had the mouse trap with two ping pong balls set up hundreds of them and you throw one on there and just can you talk into that microphone

  34. that okay we done tonight I'll do I'll look at those okay and um get get some more details submit us to what they are okay send that to soup okay yes sir need name and address please five different 53 55 provincial drive in the township it disturbs me that the information presented to you from the DNR in my mind was misleading here's why and I'm an engineer so I get to quantify everything you want to you want to have an idea of what the growth rate of the DRR their graph was totally misleading if I can use imagination here vertical and horizontal axis they had it going up from zero at a constant rate and then leveled off into call it a sinusoidal curve ups and downs that's completely misleading it doesn't start out at a strong rate it's like uh i'm a i'm a nuclear baby where you get under the desk when the bombs start falling you saw the you saw the advertisements where they had the mouse trap with two ping pong balls set up hundreds of them and you throw one on there and just can you talk into that microphone to your right yeah yeah thank you you have an explosion well the other way is a nuclear power plant where you control it you keep the countdown of the hits the deer are the same way you start out small very small it's a zero graph at the start not inclined that's extremely important how wide that zero graph is or close to zero allows you to control the population effectively then when you get into too much growth that's when it takes off so there's an area where you can keep it down and under control it's not a black and white thing you just keep it low so that's why i want to make sure that you understood that their graph was didn't show that it showed the opposite so that's why i wanted to make sure that you understood that their graph was The other thing is I'm a homeowner looking to redo my landscaping. When I came to a meeting or two ago, I talked about how my arborvitae were now hourglass shaped where the deer had eaten as high up and as down low as they could go.

  35. balls set up hundreds of them and you throw one on there and just can you talk into that microphone to your right yeah yeah thank you you have an explosion well the other way is a nuclear power plant where you control it you keep the countdown of the hits the deer are the same way you start out small very small it's a zero graph at the start not inclined that's extremely important how wide that zero graph is or close to zero allows you to control the population effectively then when you get into too much growth that's when it takes off so there's an area where you can keep it down and under control it's not a black and white thing you just keep it low so that's why i want to make sure that you understood that their graph was didn't show that it showed the opposite so that's why i wanted to make sure that you understood that their graph was The other thing is I'm a homeowner looking to redo my landscaping. When I came to a meeting or two ago, I talked about how my arborvitae were now hourglass shaped where the deer had eaten as high up and as down low as they could go. And I'm reconsidering whether I want to do my rear lot line at all. In light of the deer, it's what's the point? So do you want to live in a grass only township or do you want some landscaping? Another point, for these Bambi lovers, fine, you want to let the deer roam free, then let the predators roam free. I know you're not going to like that. We don't want coyote and mountain lions or whatever that kills the deer. I mean, if you're going to let one species survive, then let them all survive. Otherwise, you control it. You're in a new environment with man occupying the land, not just animals. We have coyote and fox right now. Yeah. I'm sorry. I apologize. Let him finish his comment. I thought he can. I thought he can. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I'm kind of done. I'd like a conversation, not a presentation. I'd like to be on the group that's studying this because I'm very emotional about it. It's a waste of my time.

  36. where the deer had eaten as high up and as down low as they could go. And I'm reconsidering whether I want to do my rear lot line at all. In light of the deer, it's what's the point? So do you want to live in a grass only township or do you want some landscaping? Another point, for these Bambi lovers, fine, you want to let the deer roam free, then let the predators roam free. I know you're not going to like that. We don't want coyote and mountain lions or whatever that kills the deer. I mean, if you're going to let one species survive, then let them all survive. Otherwise, you control it. You're in a new environment with man occupying the land, not just animals. We have coyote and fox right now. Yeah. I'm sorry. I apologize. Let him finish his comment. I thought he can. I thought he can. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I'm kind of done. I'd like a conversation, not a presentation. I'd like to be on the group that's studying this because I'm very emotional about it. It's a waste of my time. put plantings out there i'm redoing my house the deck the siding the windows i'd like to do the landscaping but i'm not going to touch it if we're going to have deer out there okay i bought eight of these zero deer ultrasound and and strobe light they seem to be effective but i can't guarantee that okay long term thank you very much thank you i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt but i wanted to let some public comment go play out and then you know answer it i apologize sir if i stepped on your toes yeah i guess my comment was i have seen uh fox and coyote in my backyard yeah so i mean it's not a daily thing but they're there there's no question there's a fuel yeah okay all right so we have a um there's nobody else here no other public comments so we'll close that portion up nobody else here unless you want to talk about the deer as well okay okay that's it that's another point of view isn't it it is another point of view i can care less that go unnoticed thank you mr phillips okay there you go there you go all right so then we

  37. put plantings out there i'm redoing my house the deck the siding the windows i'd like to do the landscaping but i'm not going to touch it if we're going to have deer out there okay i bought eight of these zero deer ultrasound and and strobe light they seem to be effective but i can't guarantee that okay long term thank you very much thank you i'm sorry i didn't mean to interrupt but i wanted to let some public comment go play out and then you know answer it i apologize sir if i stepped on your toes yeah i guess my comment was i have seen uh fox and coyote in my backyard yeah so i mean it's not a daily thing but they're there there's no question there's a fuel yeah okay all right so we have a um there's nobody else here no other public comments so we'll close that portion up nobody else here unless you want to talk about the deer as well okay okay that's it that's another point of view isn't it it is another point of view i can care less that go unnoticed thank you mr phillips okay there you go there you go all right so then we we have a plan to start right we're going to start inviting some of these some groups to that will and some that will refute the previous you know that's good that's what that's you know how we'll work and then get plenty of public comment in the middle you know this will be a contentious subject mm-hmm because people are all over the map and the consequences of of this particular problem hits everybody a little differently so that's unlike the roads that hit everybody the same this is this is like well do I care about the deer I could care less come together and I happen to be who's had some of his made us some kind of a salad out of my hostas but then I fought back and I actually won so we have to kind of go in with an open mind exactly that's the point not appear to be biased but obviously we're not the only people who come across this crossroad yeah and that was the nice thing about the Susan's list of different town locale locale the DNR itself the Indian tribes everybody recognizes that

  38. less that go unnoticed thank you mr phillips okay there you go there you go all right so then we we have a plan to start right we're going to start inviting some of these some groups to that will and some that will refute the previous you know that's good that's what that's you know how we'll work and then get plenty of public comment in the middle you know this will be a contentious subject mm-hmm because people are all over the map and the consequences of of this particular problem hits everybody a little differently so that's unlike the roads that hit everybody the same this is this is like well do I care about the deer I could care less come together and I happen to be who's had some of his made us some kind of a salad out of my hostas but then I fought back and I actually won so we have to kind of go in with an open mind exactly that's the point not appear to be biased but obviously we're not the only people who come across this crossroad yeah and that was the nice thing about the Susan's list of different town locale locale the DNR itself the Indian tribes everybody recognizes that the deer population is X Y or Z and there are different ways to address it and I think we're obligated to look at the different ways to address it and at least you know come up with it acknowledge that is an issue and the solution to the issue is X Y and Z and then other people who actually get who run for office can decide what they want to do early on one of our very first steps on the road group was to prepare a mission statement and maybe we should maybe you can fine tune that but we can we should we should create next meeting we can create a mission statement we could do that well I'll send you a draft oh yeah I'll send you a draft of a mission statement okay and then at least you could just say whether it's it's kind of silly no I thank you all for volunteering because these are difficult subjects that we have to work through this is harder than the roads yeah because it's more emotional right it's going to roll it's gonna pay

  39. town locale locale the DNR itself the Indian tribes everybody recognizes that the deer population is X Y or Z and there are different ways to address it and I think we're obligated to look at the different ways to address it and at least you know come up with it acknowledge that is an issue and the solution to the issue is X Y and Z and then other people who actually get who run for office can decide what they want to do early on one of our very first steps on the road group was to prepare a mission statement and maybe we should maybe you can fine tune that but we can we should we should create next meeting we can create a mission statement we could do that well I'll send you a draft oh yeah I'll send you a draft of a mission statement okay and then at least you could just say whether it's it's kind of silly no I thank you all for volunteering because these are difficult subjects that we have to work through this is harder than the roads yeah because it's more emotional right it's going to roll it's gonna pay for it hold on guys do other quick comments just people this is not I don't have a sign on the front door saying please see me about dear I'm set this okay but people are interested right so one and you may have received something one of our neighbors did significant research nationally on addressing an issue like this and came up with a long-term strategy of plantings I don't know if you received this the type of vegetation what the implications are for red oak when they're planted I don't know anyone just that's one two another person approached me she was doing some landscaping next door and she has been thinking about developing a business in the state of Michigan to anesthetize and relocate deer. She's gone so far as to investigate it to say many of the deer don't survive. Now, this is anecdotal, when you transport them. I'm just making that, all that aside, that could be all wrong. I'm not validating. I'm just, this is in the last three weeks, and I am not home all the time. So I'm just saying the level of commentary is very high from my experience. Hopefully, the groups that we bring in to do presentations will have some of that information available, you know?

  40. roads yeah because it's more emotional right it's going to roll it's gonna pay for it hold on guys do other quick comments just people this is not I don't have a sign on the front door saying please see me about dear I'm set this okay but people are interested right so one and you may have received something one of our neighbors did significant research nationally on addressing an issue like this and came up with a long-term strategy of plantings I don't know if you received this the type of vegetation what the implications are for red oak when they're planted I don't know anyone just that's one two another person approached me she was doing some landscaping next door and she has been thinking about developing a business in the state of Michigan to anesthetize and relocate deer. She's gone so far as to investigate it to say many of the deer don't survive. Now, this is anecdotal, when you transport them. I'm just making that, all that aside, that could be all wrong. I'm not validating. I'm just, this is in the last three weeks, and I am not home all the time. So I'm just saying the level of commentary is very high from my experience. Hopefully, the groups that we bring in to do presentations will have some of that information available, you know? That's what I'd like to hear. Yeah, because we have heard about some. Have you heard about some of this? Yes. Okay, good. The only other thing I wanted to bring up is we have several people that have volunteered to be alternates, I guess you want to call them. And I had a conversation with Lynn, one, and she wanted to know about what the commitment was to this. So maybe we could just, are we going to be doing this meeting like every other week, the same as we did with roads? Or how are we going to, can we do Zoom, for instance? That's a very good question. No, I don't think, because we're an authorized body of trustees, which means we're open public, so we can't do Zoom. It was authorized through COVID. Oh, I didn't know that. I believe. But I can double check. Okay. But yes, and then we have another gentleman that would like, he said, Yeah, he just said he would like to be a part of this. So maybe what we do, and just an idea of just thinking off the top of my head, you know, once a month. month we because we meet every other week every other week maybe once a month we deal with the road issue and then the next meeting we deal with the deer issue or we do half the meeting we figure it out we want to keep these meetings an hour we're pretty good now yeah and we dedicate half of the meeting and the

  41. will have some of that information available, you know? That's what I'd like to hear. Yeah, because we have heard about some. Have you heard about some of this? Yes. Okay, good. The only other thing I wanted to bring up is we have several people that have volunteered to be alternates, I guess you want to call them. And I had a conversation with Lynn, one, and she wanted to know about what the commitment was to this. So maybe we could just, are we going to be doing this meeting like every other week, the same as we did with roads? Or how are we going to, can we do Zoom, for instance? That's a very good question. No, I don't think, because we're an authorized body of trustees, which means we're open public, so we can't do Zoom. It was authorized through COVID. Oh, I didn't know that. I believe. But I can double check. Okay. But yes, and then we have another gentleman that would like, he said, Yeah, he just said he would like to be a part of this. So maybe what we do, and just an idea of just thinking off the top of my head, you know, once a month. month we because we meet every other week every other week maybe once a month we deal with the road issue and then the next meeting we deal with the deer issue or we do half the meeting we figure it out we want to keep these meetings an hour we're pretty good now yeah and we dedicate half of the meeting and the other half to the other issue I'm just throwing ideas out there but well one of the things I begin we spoke when you asked me about this and I said I didn't like the idea right well to be open and honest because I didn't want to dilute the road portion of this by having something else however if we make commitment that we're gonna we're still gonna meet on roads every other week okay and concentrate on that but also every other weeks like you said devote part of the hour to deer I don't think it's going to delete you don't dilute either one as long as it's a firm commitment that we're going to look at each on a regular basis and not now all of a sudden go once a month which is that's a that's you know let's so that dilutes it well the other I don't I think we can be flexible that if we really get there's a lot that's coming our way on roads yes then the next two meeting our roads right and then then we flip and spend time on deer okay I mean so I like the let's try it mixed moving forward but if one is a very time intensive discussion or presentation then that takes the whole meeting right I just don't want people

  42. hour we're pretty good now yeah and we dedicate half of the meeting and the other half to the other issue I'm just throwing ideas out there but well one of the things I begin we spoke when you asked me about this and I said I didn't like the idea right well to be open and honest because I didn't want to dilute the road portion of this by having something else however if we make commitment that we're gonna we're still gonna meet on roads every other week okay and concentrate on that but also every other weeks like you said devote part of the hour to deer I don't think it's going to delete you don't dilute either one as long as it's a firm commitment that we're going to look at each on a regular basis and not now all of a sudden go once a month which is that's a that's you know let's so that dilutes it well the other I don't I think we can be flexible that if we really get there's a lot that's coming our way on roads yes then the next two meeting our roads right and then then we flip and spend time on deer okay I mean so I like the let's try it mixed moving forward but if one is a very time intensive discussion or presentation then that takes the whole meeting right I just don't want people get the idea that one or the other is more important right no you know what i mean yep because for instance he could say well i want to talk about rose i don't want to talk about dear and he could say i want to talk about dear i don't talk about role and i don't want either one of them to think that we're saying the other guy is more important no it's not we've take made this commitment and so we have to we have to do the best we can yeah i think sue did you have a comment from my only thought on that is when we started the road advisory committee we had speakers come in uh those some of those meetings ran over so my only thought is is if we do i don't think we can i'm not in favor of tandem tandemizing yeah i think you're spot on with the road should stay the roads and the deer should stay the deer um just because of that and then yeah exactly i agree because the roads are going to become more bizarre when we find out the the budget numbers well there's and they're going to have to noodle through all that yeah yeah there's a time sensitivity as we talked about 30 minutes ago and a huge expenditure yeah if we can and then the deer thing is is a whole different thing i mean we don't even monetize that and it's going to be contentious well but as far as the time thing yeah yes okay you that could be put off too you know i mean it

  43. get the idea that one or the other is more important right no you know what i mean yep because for instance he could say well i want to talk about rose i don't want to talk about dear and he could say i want to talk about dear i don't talk about role and i don't want either one of them to think that we're saying the other guy is more important no it's not we've take made this commitment and so we have to we have to do the best we can yeah i think sue did you have a comment from my only thought on that is when we started the road advisory committee we had speakers come in uh those some of those meetings ran over so my only thought is is if we do i don't think we can i'm not in favor of tandem tandemizing yeah i think you're spot on with the road should stay the roads and the deer should stay the deer um just because of that and then yeah exactly i agree because the roads are going to become more bizarre when we find out the the budget numbers well there's and they're going to have to noodle through all that yeah yeah there's a time sensitivity as we talked about 30 minutes ago and a huge expenditure yeah if we can and then the deer thing is is a whole different thing i mean we don't even monetize that and it's going to be contentious well but as far as the time thing yeah yes okay you that could be put off too you know i mean it doesn't have to just because they're going through the process now and they get to get the petitions then they have hearings i mean it takes a while but it also can be said to delay it for six months to see what happens here before they move on You know what I mean? It doesn't have to have a rigid timeline for that. Well, that would be, okay. I know they can't because there's no timeline. It's up to Mr. McCready. Well, I think we make a collective decision here. And what I'm thinking is maybe, let's say, what if we took it in every two or three months or a quarter? We have four quarters in a year, and we devote two of the meetings to the DEER and the rest of the meetings to the ROADs. Okay, what I was referring to is the SAD. The SAD, just because you're in the process doesn't mean, and you even get through the process and you get the petitions, it doesn't mean you have to, boom, you've got to move ahead now. You can put that off. You can hold it off. It doesn't matter. Now, make it more expensive. Well, and I'd like to talk about SADs at some point with all of us to decide if it's something the township should consider getting into versus just letting it go to the county. And I think that's worth a few discussions. Well, the process is, and there's an ongoing process for the last section in the village,

  44. well but as far as the time thing yeah yes okay you that could be put off too you know i mean it doesn't have to just because they're going through the process now and they get to get the petitions then they have hearings i mean it takes a while but it also can be said to delay it for six months to see what happens here before they move on You know what I mean? It doesn't have to have a rigid timeline for that. Well, that would be, okay. I know they can't because there's no timeline. It's up to Mr. McCready. Well, I think we make a collective decision here. And what I'm thinking is maybe, let's say, what if we took it in every two or three months or a quarter? We have four quarters in a year, and we devote two of the meetings to the DEER and the rest of the meetings to the ROADs. Okay, what I was referring to is the SAD. The SAD, just because you're in the process doesn't mean, and you even get through the process and you get the petitions, it doesn't mean you have to, boom, you've got to move ahead now. You can put that off. You can hold it off. It doesn't matter. Now, make it more expensive. Well, and I'd like to talk about SADs at some point with all of us to decide if it's something the township should consider getting into versus just letting it go to the county. And I think that's worth a few discussions. Well, the process is, and there's an ongoing process for the last section in the village, very tenacious HOA trying to garner enough signatures to then begin construction again next year at an increased rate that exceeds what we're paying now. That is the plan. That's not a rumor. That's not innuendo. So more than what we're paying now will be the plan for the last section of the village. Okay, but even if that's done and they won't prove it. Thank you. It's got to go to the Board of Trustees. The Board of Trustees approve, and they could say, no, you know what? We want to see what the budget's going to look like. We want to see, so we're going to put this off for six months. They could do that, because you're the ones that approve it. Just because the group signs off on it, you're the ones that approve it. Right, we do approve it. And what I'm talking about is that the township doesn't need to be involved with these SADs, because these are county-owned roads. The SADs can go directly to the county, and they take on the debt, and they take on all the work. We stay out of it. Except the interest rate is higher, number one. And I think the time is less, is that correct? Mm-hmm, 10 years.

  45. Well, the process is, and there's an ongoing process for the last section in the village, very tenacious HOA trying to garner enough signatures to then begin construction again next year at an increased rate that exceeds what we're paying now. That is the plan. That's not a rumor. That's not innuendo. So more than what we're paying now will be the plan for the last section of the village. Okay, but even if that's done and they won't prove it. Thank you. It's got to go to the Board of Trustees. The Board of Trustees approve, and they could say, no, you know what? We want to see what the budget's going to look like. We want to see, so we're going to put this off for six months. They could do that, because you're the ones that approve it. Just because the group signs off on it, you're the ones that approve it. Right, we do approve it. And what I'm talking about is that the township doesn't need to be involved with these SADs, because these are county-owned roads. The SADs can go directly to the county, and they take on the debt, and they take on all the work. We stay out of it. Except the interest rate is higher, number one. And I think the time is less, is that correct? Mm-hmm, 10 years. Because they go at a straight, if I'm not mistaken, it's a straight 6%, regardless. For 10 years. And the township goes a point above prime, is that right? And right now, prime is 3%, 4%. It's cheaper and more efficient. It's better to go through the township. Now, as far as debt's concerned, if you take on debt, but it's paid off, how does that hurt? Does that hurt your credit rating? But it's being paid off religiously. Well, debt is still measured by S&P when they give you your credit rating, and there is a revenue source. But we've taken on $43 million worth of debt right now for SADs. We're just at the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, but the revenue source is there. The revenue source is there, but they still look at debt. Okay, I'm not I don't. Should we hear from the auditor or the township auditor which talks about that or the finance director? I think I think that would be great conversation to have. Especially if there's a chance to create some slight relief for historic. We're currently in the process. See that's not that is not a debt sense as long as you pay it off and you have the means to pay it off. I mean look in your family you have a mortgage and maybe you have two cars at the least but you pay them off so your credit rating is fine.

  46. Because they go at a straight, if I'm not mistaken, it's a straight 6%, regardless. For 10 years. And the township goes a point above prime, is that right? And right now, prime is 3%, 4%. It's cheaper and more efficient. It's better to go through the township. Now, as far as debt's concerned, if you take on debt, but it's paid off, how does that hurt? Does that hurt your credit rating? But it's being paid off religiously. Well, debt is still measured by S&P when they give you your credit rating, and there is a revenue source. But we've taken on $43 million worth of debt right now for SADs. We're just at the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, but the revenue source is there. The revenue source is there, but they still look at debt. Okay, I'm not I don't. Should we hear from the auditor or the township auditor which talks about that or the finance director? I think I think that would be great conversation to have. Especially if there's a chance to create some slight relief for historic. We're currently in the process. See that's not that is not a debt sense as long as you pay it off and you have the means to pay it off. I mean look in your family you have a mortgage and maybe you have two cars at the least but you pay them off so your credit rating is fine. You want to buy another car and you got another credit rating. It's good and you're paying it off. It's not a serious it's not a death sentence in other words so taking out more debt I don't think is a horrible thing. I think it would help to hear I no disrespect no no I'd like to hear from the auditor slash finance director. I mean right I'll let you sort that out but what's the implication what's the consequence and if it's a ding to the township maybe maybe we shouldn't. Yeah and that's a financial thing that they have to tell us. Right right I think we had to have some more public comment. Well you know what we still have a couple of minutes so quickly I saw your hand go ahead. Can you go open up the microphone again? Do it like in one minute. Introduce yourself. Yeah because we were at 430, 530. Point of fact in memory I reached out to the clerk's office a month ago or a couple weeks ago. asking for, had the interest rate been set, because I've been told I think in August they were going to set it in September sometime. Said yes, it was set. Could I, I had to ask for a new schedule for the 15 years. My question to her was, is this going to be widely disseminated to everybody in the village?

  47. I mean look in your family you have a mortgage and maybe you have two cars at the least but you pay them off so your credit rating is fine. You want to buy another car and you got another credit rating. It's good and you're paying it off. It's not a serious it's not a death sentence in other words so taking out more debt I don't think is a horrible thing. I think it would help to hear I no disrespect no no I'd like to hear from the auditor slash finance director. I mean right I'll let you sort that out but what's the implication what's the consequence and if it's a ding to the township maybe maybe we shouldn't. Yeah and that's a financial thing that they have to tell us. Right right I think we had to have some more public comment. Well you know what we still have a couple of minutes so quickly I saw your hand go ahead. Can you go open up the microphone again? Do it like in one minute. Introduce yourself. Yeah because we were at 430, 530. Point of fact in memory I reached out to the clerk's office a month ago or a couple weeks ago. asking for, had the interest rate been set, because I've been told I think in August they were going to set it in September sometime. Said yes, it was set. Could I, I had to ask for a new schedule for the 15 years. My question to her was, is this going to be widely disseminated to everybody in the village? The answer was no. There was no intent to, originally when the estimate was provided based on last year's rate, we all got a hard copy mailing of this is your expected 15-year schedule, but now that has not been done for the new rate. And the rate did go down, I think it's 4.18 or something like that. Right, that's right. But just so like, communication wasn't quite clear on why, why there isn't communication out to all the residents. We should be sharing that. We should be open to the public, published on the website. Well, I just said we got the, we got the estimate. All right. We'll look into that. We'll look into that. We'll look into find out. We should be sharing it with all the residents. The real data isn't coming up. Secondly, just my opinion, deer don't have anything to do with the roads. It sounds like you got into it because it's a safety issue on the roads. My recommendation and request would be that the road commission stays focused on road quality, road funding, and the problem at hand. And if deer is a safety issue on roads, I get that. But I think I would agree with one or two of the member service that these are two issues that have a very, very small, overlap. And that's the reason I thought we should separate it into separate. Could be two different. two different people.

  48. My question to her was, is this going to be widely disseminated to everybody in the village? The answer was no. There was no intent to, originally when the estimate was provided based on last year's rate, we all got a hard copy mailing of this is your expected 15-year schedule, but now that has not been done for the new rate. And the rate did go down, I think it's 4.18 or something like that. Right, that's right. But just so like, communication wasn't quite clear on why, why there isn't communication out to all the residents. We should be sharing that. We should be open to the public, published on the website. Well, I just said we got the, we got the estimate. All right. We'll look into that. We'll look into that. We'll look into find out. We should be sharing it with all the residents. The real data isn't coming up. Secondly, just my opinion, deer don't have anything to do with the roads. It sounds like you got into it because it's a safety issue on the roads. My recommendation and request would be that the road commission stays focused on road quality, road funding, and the problem at hand. And if deer is a safety issue on roads, I get that. But I think I would agree with one or two of the member service that these are two issues that have a very, very small, overlap. And that's the reason I thought we should separate it into separate. Could be two different. two different people. committees, but the same people on the committee, same people. Could be different people. Just a moment. Thanks for your time. All right. Now, sorry. Go ahead. Then we're going to adjourn. We're done. So I said I was an engineer. But what I should have said is I'm a professional engineer with a civil focus based on my education and work experience, Hubbell, Roth, and Clark up the road here. You may be familiar with them. Yes. But it occurs to me beyond the deer issue is the street issue that you've brought up. So it strikes me as an engineer that doesn't have any control over the roadways or anything like that, that we expend too much on ripping up roads that are 90% good and 10% bad. And there needs to be more focus on what you've done in my subdivision. And on rare occasions, which is bring in hot asphalt and level it out, you could do that with most of the roads in the township and not have to repave and go through all that expense. Coal patch is worthless. So do some hot patch, level it out. You'll have much happier residents.

  49. committees, but the same people on the committee, same people. Could be different people. Just a moment. Thanks for your time. All right. Now, sorry. Go ahead. Then we're going to adjourn. We're done. So I said I was an engineer. But what I should have said is I'm a professional engineer with a civil focus based on my education and work experience, Hubbell, Roth, and Clark up the road here. You may be familiar with them. Yes. But it occurs to me beyond the deer issue is the street issue that you've brought up. So it strikes me as an engineer that doesn't have any control over the roadways or anything like that, that we expend too much on ripping up roads that are 90% good and 10% bad. And there needs to be more focus on what you've done in my subdivision. And on rare occasions, which is bring in hot asphalt and level it out, you could do that with most of the roads in the township and not have to repave and go through all that expense. Coal patch is worthless. So do some hot patch, level it out. You'll have much happier residents. There was something else I was going to say probably about the landscaping, but... Save it for next time. Yeah. Okay. All right. Thanks. Appreciate your time. Thanks for coming. Thanks for coming. participating. Okay, are we done? I move to adjourn. Move and seconded to adjourn. We are adjourned. Thank you all very much.