the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Monday, September 22, 2025 · 55 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on September 17, 2025

Summary

The city council discussed road maintenance and federal aid, presentation formats, and budget updates, with a focus on improving subdivision roads and addressing safety concerns.

  • The Road Advisory Committee held a work session to finalize a presentation for the Board of Trustees.
  • City council members discussed updates to a document regarding road maintenance and federal aid.
  • The council discussed road maintenance and federal aid with the road department.
  • City council meeting discussed budget updates and presentation format.
  • The city council discussed the importance of preventing damage to roads and infrastructure.

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Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. Call this meeting to order, please. Everybody, we welcome to the September 17th meeting of the Road Advisory Committee. Call it to order. We have one, two, three, four, five, six, seven here, two missing. I do want to welcome, before we do anything, it's not here yet. But I want to welcome the newest member, Fred Nader. Fred Nader. Fred Nader. Nader, okay. I just want to be here for the round. Well, okay, I'll welcome him if he comes in the door. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to dispense with reading this message I always do, because there's nobody here, it's just us. It's a work session. First of all, the minutes for the September 3rd meeting, did you send those out? Because I can't find them. Well, that's me, it's not you, it's me, so we can still, if you've read, has everybody else that read them? Yeah. No? Look for them right before the left, so. Okay, so we didn't get them. The agenda. Yeah. We got the agenda. All right, so you know what then? It should have been with the agenda, was it not? No, it was not. No, it was not. That's why I said, okay. So you know what, let's just postpone that. I can pull it up right now if you want to see it. Well, I would just assume we'll approve those minutes at the next meeting, that's all. It's not, it's not, it's no big deal, it was just a study session, so. But anyway, we'll approve it at the next meeting, we can, that's perfectly legal, you can. do that doesn't have to be done now so okay this is a work session to kind of finalize what we have published here what we're gonna what we're going to presenting on the in the October meeting to the Board of Trustees and I just want to say first of all that it's with the amount of work I'm really impressed with what you folks have done here the amount of information that's in here I think it's probably the first time ever that this much information on this subject has been put into one place at one time in an organized way and I think when people see this they're gonna go whoa I mean it's really impressive what you fight what you folks have done so it's really good thank you so I guess today what we'll do is we'll just go over the format again if we need to and then what I what I'd like to do is suggest a format for the presentation and see what you think about that okay so it's up to you what do you want to do you want to talk

  2. Well, I would just assume we'll approve those minutes at the next meeting, that's all. It's not, it's not, it's no big deal, it was just a study session, so. But anyway, we'll approve it at the next meeting, we can, that's perfectly legal, you can. do that doesn't have to be done now so okay this is a work session to kind of finalize what we have published here what we're gonna what we're going to presenting on the in the October meeting to the Board of Trustees and I just want to say first of all that it's with the amount of work I'm really impressed with what you folks have done here the amount of information that's in here I think it's probably the first time ever that this much information on this subject has been put into one place at one time in an organized way and I think when people see this they're gonna go whoa I mean it's really impressive what you fight what you folks have done so it's really good thank you so I guess today what we'll do is we'll just go over the format again if we need to and then what I what I'd like to do is suggest a format for the presentation and see what you think about that okay so it's up to you what do you want to do you want to talk about the content now are you satisfied with it or what's your pleasure what do you want to do any suggestions what you guys put in correct yeah so I go through what those changes were go ahead yeah sure so basically Steve had brought up for instance the the pacer stuff I've just had the original document of evaluated period because I couldn't find any hard copy anywhere that said it was on a three-year cycle. So I added in that it's typically on a three-year cycle so that everybody has awareness of it. I also changed from the one you had seen two weeks ago that I downloaded some new PACER rating charts from the, from SEMCOG instead, as opposed to the ones that were presented to us from the Road Commission of Oakland County. Yeah, this is different. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so basically it shows only the streets that belong to Bluefield Township, and it's the freshest data possible. So it still reflects the same thing as Mike brought out before,

  3. think about that okay so it's up to you what do you want to do you want to talk about the content now are you satisfied with it or what's your pleasure what do you want to do any suggestions what you guys put in correct yeah so I go through what those changes were go ahead yeah sure so basically Steve had brought up for instance the the pacer stuff I've just had the original document of evaluated period because I couldn't find any hard copy anywhere that said it was on a three-year cycle. So I added in that it's typically on a three-year cycle so that everybody has awareness of it. I also changed from the one you had seen two weeks ago that I downloaded some new PACER rating charts from the, from SEMCOG instead, as opposed to the ones that were presented to us from the Road Commission of Oakland County. Yeah, this is different. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so basically it shows only the streets that belong to Bluefield Township, and it's the freshest data possible. So it still reflects the same thing as Mike brought out before, that's the true tale of when you look at the ones where the federal aid is available, they're, they're yellow and green and just a couple of reds versus the ones where there is no federal aid. It's mostly rated as poor. And then the last page, I added the part with regards to the township has no control over what can be done to the roads with respect to items such as speed limits, signage, and speed humps. Good. That was your recommendation, Jeff? Yeah, thank you. And then it just continues on with while they provide the service of asphalt patching, they are not responsible for nor have the budget to provide repaving services at this time. Therefore, repaving or replacement of subdivision streets remains a responsibility. the RC OC which will be borne out in all the presentations yeah okay so that's the changes that I made so it's different math very good beginning and glad so thanks for your input when when we got together there were a couple things that we didn't have exact numbers for sure you see the highlighted we didn't have that didn't think of a way to do that so we were hoping that maybe the road department or somebody could help us with that but but if you can then

  4. So it still reflects the same thing as Mike brought out before, that's the true tale of when you look at the ones where the federal aid is available, they're, they're yellow and green and just a couple of reds versus the ones where there is no federal aid. It's mostly rated as poor. And then the last page, I added the part with regards to the township has no control over what can be done to the roads with respect to items such as speed limits, signage, and speed humps. Good. That was your recommendation, Jeff? Yeah, thank you. And then it just continues on with while they provide the service of asphalt patching, they are not responsible for nor have the budget to provide repaving services at this time. Therefore, repaving or replacement of subdivision streets remains a responsibility. the RC OC which will be borne out in all the presentations yeah okay so that's the changes that I made so it's different math very good beginning and glad so thanks for your input when when we got together there were a couple things that we didn't have exact numbers for sure you see the highlighted we didn't have that didn't think of a way to do that so we were hoping that maybe the road department or somebody could help us with that but but if you can then should we fine-tune this and take that out and you know because we don't want we can't we can't I see what you wait yeah I got it yeah we can't publish with highlight and we're not trying to make trouble you know for the road department I mean they're busy so we understand that so we're looking we're looking for guidance how do you want Jeff and me there well if I could suggest we still have several weeks we have like three of at least three weeks before we do the presentation yes could you try to get the road department to give you this updated and see if you can't is that possible can Mike do that Mike can you help us with that okay and ever we don't want to burn a lot of township time you But I mean, so if you can, great. If not, whatever is left highlighted, we'll take another pass. You can edit it out. Do what you can at the end. We'll fine-tune it. Good. We'll do it. Or you can leave it blank if you don't have the data yet.

  5. the road department or somebody could help us with that but but if you can then should we fine-tune this and take that out and you know because we don't want we can't we can't I see what you wait yeah I got it yeah we can't publish with highlight and we're not trying to make trouble you know for the road department I mean they're busy so we understand that so we're looking we're looking for guidance how do you want Jeff and me there well if I could suggest we still have several weeks we have like three of at least three weeks before we do the presentation yes could you try to get the road department to give you this updated and see if you can't is that possible can Mike do that Mike can you help us with that okay and ever we don't want to burn a lot of township time you But I mean, so if you can, great. If not, whatever is left highlighted, we'll take another pass. You can edit it out. Do what you can at the end. We'll fine-tune it. Good. We'll do it. Or you can leave it blank if you don't have the data yet. Well, if you could help us, please. If not, take a pass. If it doesn't work, then we'll take another pass. So you want me to do that for you? Between the law department and engineering, I can come up with the data. Hey, Fred. Hey, sorry. No, come on in. This is Fred Nader, our new board member. Well, welcome, Fred. Welcome back. Hello, guys. Thank you. Good to see you all. Appreciate it. Welcome. Thank you. So, Mike, whenever it is, just shoot it back to us and we'll clean up. Yeah, we'll clean up whatever they can. Okay. Thank you. And the other thing on our section, we've got a separate handout, and we've added a couple of things, and it's in yellow. It's under 3D and 3H and 4E and 4F. Those are just edit updates. That's what we're looking at right now. You can see. Trying to make it a little bit clearer. One thing I was unaware of, and maybe everybody else understood I didn't, that they, on 3D, and to help, we got that.

  6. Or you can leave it blank if you don't have the data yet. Well, if you could help us, please. If not, take a pass. If it doesn't work, then we'll take another pass. So you want me to do that for you? Between the law department and engineering, I can come up with the data. Hey, Fred. Hey, sorry. No, come on in. This is Fred Nader, our new board member. Well, welcome, Fred. Welcome back. Hello, guys. Thank you. Good to see you all. Appreciate it. Welcome. Thank you. So, Mike, whenever it is, just shoot it back to us and we'll clean up. Yeah, we'll clean up whatever they can. Okay. Thank you. And the other thing on our section, we've got a separate handout, and we've added a couple of things, and it's in yellow. It's under 3D and 3H and 4E and 4F. Those are just edit updates. That's what we're looking at right now. You can see. Trying to make it a little bit clearer. One thing I was unaware of, and maybe everybody else understood I didn't, that they, on 3D, and to help, we got that. information from the on the finances and I had understated the amount of money going into the road program it's it's much much more than I thought because I didn't pick up the transfer from the township you know two million that's going to be two million seven and twenty six so that that makes that a bit a much bigger budget of about six million bucks so anyway that's good so just so and you can see that in the finance report that came out too so just Jeff Jeff and I will clean up whatever we have to do thank you okay one of the things I was going to ask for is that when we do this this probably comes up more under the next thing about the format of the presentation yes of all the groups the four groups if you could give me the name who's going to present ahead of time I want to have that so that I don't look stupid not knowing who's doing what so if you could do that the other thing I was going to ask you all to do is we have that one picture so you had that one picture with that beautiful road which is all right well you remember she had that up on the board on the screen there and

  7. information from the on the finances and I had understated the amount of money going into the road program it's it's much much more than I thought because I didn't pick up the transfer from the township you know two million that's going to be two million seven and twenty six so that that makes that a bit a much bigger budget of about six million bucks so anyway that's good so just so and you can see that in the finance report that came out too so just Jeff Jeff and I will clean up whatever we have to do thank you okay one of the things I was going to ask for is that when we do this this probably comes up more under the next thing about the format of the presentation yes of all the groups the four groups if you could give me the name who's going to present ahead of time I want to have that so that I don't look stupid not knowing who's doing what so if you could do that the other thing I was going to ask you all to do is we have that one picture so you had that one picture with that beautiful road which is all right well you remember she had that up on the board on the screen there and it had a you know the cover sheet you know here we are and it had a perfect road right well what I'd like you all to do is to go in someplace in your subdivision wherever and find the worst road you've got and take a photo okay and send you you it to Sioux and put and we'll figure out which one and put that one on that photo on that not the perfect road which don't exist and we can sprinkle that you know a couple throughout the presentation well the in your own presentation sure yeah you know that's great yeah but so that leads that's okay anybody else have any any other suggestions or anything else about I asked you yeah sure in the current portion of the report so they're all small do you want to call it a outline committee progress report in the title because it's a progress right it's not a final report oh no no absolutely I'm gonna make that clear in the introduction and then you know in item one eight through e mm-hmm should we have a conclusion before recommendation I you may already have

  8. all right well you remember she had that up on the board on the screen there and it had a you know the cover sheet you know here we are and it had a perfect road right well what I'd like you all to do is to go in someplace in your subdivision wherever and find the worst road you've got and take a photo okay and send you you it to Sioux and put and we'll figure out which one and put that one on that photo on that not the perfect road which don't exist and we can sprinkle that you know a couple throughout the presentation well the in your own presentation sure yeah you know that's great yeah but so that leads that's okay anybody else have any any other suggestions or anything else about I asked you yeah sure in the current portion of the report so they're all small do you want to call it a outline committee progress report in the title because it's a progress right it's not a final report oh no no absolutely I'm gonna make that clear in the introduction and then you know in item one eight through e mm-hmm should we have a conclusion before recommendation I you may already have written down and you know it's you mean we have record D is recommendations right so usually you have a conclude based on our finding what we concluded and then based on that we recommend that now okay do ABCD that well I don't think we're up to that no so my thought what I put this together is we're just dealing with current situation and findings this was for the committee to see what the total report would be because if you go to the second page you see get into you get a sense that we're getting into alternatives and we get into recommendations that's fine so what that won't even be in the no all we're all we're doing is just dealing with where we are today got it and and this this outline is for the entirety of our effort yeah what i did was i i kind of which is what i usually do when i make a presentation i look at the people who are present we are presenting to and how they are going to understand what you're trying to present and that's how i you know it's my critique it's nothing you know right or wrong i'm just and then there's an item f2f it said the although you know the last sentence it said the adjacent property owners although it benefits the

  9. eight through e mm-hmm should we have a conclusion before recommendation I you may already have written down and you know it's you mean we have record D is recommendations right so usually you have a conclude based on our finding what we concluded and then based on that we recommend that now okay do ABCD that well I don't think we're up to that no so my thought what I put this together is we're just dealing with current situation and findings this was for the committee to see what the total report would be because if you go to the second page you see get into you get a sense that we're getting into alternatives and we get into recommendations that's fine so what that won't even be in the no all we're all we're doing is just dealing with where we are today got it and and this this outline is for the entirety of our effort yeah what i did was i i kind of which is what i usually do when i make a presentation i look at the people who are present we are presenting to and how they are going to understand what you're trying to present and that's how i you know it's my critique it's nothing you know right or wrong i'm just and then there's an item f2f it said the although you know the last sentence it said the adjacent property owners although it benefits the community now do we have a proof of that i'm sorry where are you he's on a 2f 2f last line yeah in their current situations it says uh and and this is what probably uh board is going to read most than all the details because this is pretty voluminous i just wonder whether we we we need some kind of sentence that there is a proof of that uh that it's going to benefit the whole community or because and i i i have a experience recent experience going before the board and they you know in reference to safety path and they they they do safety path on the main roads they don't do anything they think subdivision is not part of the connecting neighborhoods or whatever so their mindset is in my opinion and my experience recent experience is that we are connecting you know by putting safety bus and telegraph road we are connecting

  10. although you know the last sentence it said the adjacent property owners although it benefits the community now do we have a proof of that i'm sorry where are you he's on a 2f 2f last line yeah in their current situations it says uh and and this is what probably uh board is going to read most than all the details because this is pretty voluminous i just wonder whether we we we need some kind of sentence that there is a proof of that uh that it's going to benefit the whole community or because and i i i have a experience recent experience going before the board and they you know in reference to safety path and they they they do safety path on the main roads they don't do anything they think subdivision is not part of the connecting neighborhoods or whatever so their mindset is in my opinion and my experience recent experience is that we are connecting you know by putting safety bus and telegraph road we are connecting neighborhoods so as ours is opposite we are saying that we are improving the subdivision road that's going to help the whole community right well let's look at it okay just just to say what you said how many of the subdivisions how many of them have cut through street where people go through going to schools or wherever and they do use those subdivision streets whether through Bloomfield Village Westchester Village or any other place people all over the community use those roads they go to churches they they go to schools they go wherever and they're going through subdivisions to get there and that's whose benefit I don't disagree with you I'm just saying that we should put one sentence of proof what you just said that because most people use subdivision street to commute through okay then if you want to do that let me go ahead go ahead I put this outline together just to guide the committee It was not my intention that this outline would go to the Board of Supervisors at this time. What I did when I was kind of brainstorming, I was just making suggestions under each broad category of what may be included in there. It was not anything definitive or a finding of this committee.

  11. are connecting you know by putting safety bus and telegraph road we are connecting neighborhoods so as ours is opposite we are saying that we are improving the subdivision road that's going to help the whole community right well let's look at it okay just just to say what you said how many of the subdivisions how many of them have cut through street where people go through going to schools or wherever and they do use those subdivision streets whether through Bloomfield Village Westchester Village or any other place people all over the community use those roads they go to churches they they go to schools they go wherever and they're going through subdivisions to get there and that's whose benefit I don't disagree with you I'm just saying that we should put one sentence of proof what you just said that because most people use subdivision street to commute through okay then if you want to do that let me go ahead go ahead I put this outline together just to guide the committee It was not my intention that this outline would go to the Board of Supervisors at this time. What I did when I was kind of brainstorming, I was just making suggestions under each broad category of what may be included in there. It was not anything definitive or a finding of this committee. So we really decided we're going to break it down into current situation, you know, Township County State financing and the overall situation. And that these were just suggestions for each group to consider and what they put together. And that was just me. Right. So it wasn't intention. Intention was not to be for the committee or to be presented at this meeting. OK, so what you're saying is that this outline, this is not going to be in the presentation. No, it's us. It's us. Just for us. That is not in the presentation. This is not in the presentation? No, not that outline. It's an internal working document. When you go here, go and you go into that packet and you go into section two, current situation, Township, which that reflects. But number two or it would be number one? Well, I don't know how we're going to put that. We'll have to work that out. That's how you do the PowerPoint. That's how we do the PowerPoint, but that's the first, that is the first part of the report. Current situation, Township, because there's only four. There's five sections here, but only four. All right. Here we go.

  12. It was not anything definitive or a finding of this committee. So we really decided we're going to break it down into current situation, you know, Township County State financing and the overall situation. And that these were just suggestions for each group to consider and what they put together. And that was just me. Right. So it wasn't intention. Intention was not to be for the committee or to be presented at this meeting. OK, so what you're saying is that this outline, this is not going to be in the presentation. No, it's us. It's us. Just for us. That is not in the presentation. This is not in the presentation? No, not that outline. It's an internal working document. When you go here, go and you go into that packet and you go into section two, current situation, Township, which that reflects. But number two or it would be number one? Well, I don't know how we're going to put that. We'll have to work that out. That's how you do the PowerPoint. That's how we do the PowerPoint, but that's the first, that is the first part of the report. Current situation, Township, because there's only four. There's five sections here, but only four. All right. Here we go. are going to be reported on. So I think you had your hand up first. I think somewhere we need to address the fact that since we don't have sidewalks required, the burden for having safe streets to walk on is now put on the neighborhood to have nice streets. We do not have that anywhere that I'm aware of. And the new sidewalks that they're putting in along Telegraph, that's great. No one lives there. So the idea that we're, you know, I think you mentioned at the beginning to have the airplane land on the runway, that safety is our primary concern, and it truly is. This is really a safety issue. It's not a visionary issue. It's a safety issue in that the kids cannot ride their bikes without putting their life in peril. So that's the bottom line. And we need to address that, that that's their responsibility. And they just are not safe. That's part of the problem. No one cares about the sewers that run under them. They care about the surface, so. Okay, so what we could do, and that would be under current conditions.

  13. are going to be reported on. So I think you had your hand up first. I think somewhere we need to address the fact that since we don't have sidewalks required, the burden for having safe streets to walk on is now put on the neighborhood to have nice streets. We do not have that anywhere that I'm aware of. And the new sidewalks that they're putting in along Telegraph, that's great. No one lives there. So the idea that we're, you know, I think you mentioned at the beginning to have the airplane land on the runway, that safety is our primary concern, and it truly is. This is really a safety issue. It's not a visionary issue. It's a safety issue in that the kids cannot ride their bikes without putting their life in peril. So that's the bottom line. And we need to address that, that that's their responsibility. And they just are not safe. That's part of the problem. No one cares about the sewers that run under them. They care about the surface, so. Okay, so what we could do, and that would be under current conditions. Yeah, I thought it would be, yeah. So we can add, we can add that to that. And we'll, and Sue and I can work on that when we put it together. That would be great. So I think it's important. Okay, add. Safety. I'll just put that as a keyword for myself. So we work. if I could go right ahead build on that because it's not just walking in my we've got all these scooters But they're powered scooters that are flying around my neighborhood. Yeah, and I'm not complaining I'm just saying these guys are moving pretty fast Well, they're going well We'll call it 25 At least at a minimum They're flying around and they're these are 12 year olds on a you know going 30 miles an hour Right, you know, but also you have to include then you have to say also people driving and they're swerving around big holes No question and it could be hitting somebody hitting on it. That's it's all part of that It could all be inclusive into say right so that's a good point because I don't when I see I don't see anything in that in the current situation Township in the in the text here talking about that so we can we should add that okay, okay, we can do that Good Okay, yes, that's all I I agree with the safety part. I quite honestly if I were to go and ask talk to all my neighbors

  14. Okay, so what we could do, and that would be under current conditions. Yeah, I thought it would be, yeah. So we can add, we can add that to that. And we'll, and Sue and I can work on that when we put it together. That would be great. So I think it's important. Okay, add. Safety. I'll just put that as a keyword for myself. So we work. if I could go right ahead build on that because it's not just walking in my we've got all these scooters But they're powered scooters that are flying around my neighborhood. Yeah, and I'm not complaining I'm just saying these guys are moving pretty fast Well, they're going well We'll call it 25 At least at a minimum They're flying around and they're these are 12 year olds on a you know going 30 miles an hour Right, you know, but also you have to include then you have to say also people driving and they're swerving around big holes No question and it could be hitting somebody hitting on it. That's it's all part of that It could all be inclusive into say right so that's a good point because I don't when I see I don't see anything in that in the current situation Township in the in the text here talking about that so we can we should add that okay, okay, we can do that Good Okay, yes, that's all I I agree with the safety part. I quite honestly if I were to go and ask talk to all my neighbors Say we're gonna pay to pay we're gonna pay to pay the street and the whole community is going to benefit from it I'm gonna go out on the limb and say nine out of ten of my neighbors are gonna say I don't give a damn about the rest of my community I go to those same neighbors and say we're gonna pay the streets and it's going to be a safer place for your kids to roller skate To walk children to you know, that's a much better story I'm trying to convince, you know, I have this rule of never tell people more than they're willing to believe, even if it's the truth. And I think it falls into that category. I thank you for bringing up the safety portion of it. I think it's a better story. Well, the thing about the benefit, the community benefiting, it's the dichotomy between who's paying and who's getting the benefit. Who's paying for it is the people that live on that street. But people, everybody else is, not everybody, many people are driving through there. Benefiting from what you've paid for. That's the point. Now, we're not doing it so they'll benefit. But this is the fact that we're paying for it and they are benefiting the way it's funded now. And I prefer that they don't cut through my street. Well, then leave the hot holes and make it bad for them to go through.

  15. Okay, yes, that's all I I agree with the safety part. I quite honestly if I were to go and ask talk to all my neighbors Say we're gonna pay to pay we're gonna pay to pay the street and the whole community is going to benefit from it I'm gonna go out on the limb and say nine out of ten of my neighbors are gonna say I don't give a damn about the rest of my community I go to those same neighbors and say we're gonna pay the streets and it's going to be a safer place for your kids to roller skate To walk children to you know, that's a much better story I'm trying to convince, you know, I have this rule of never tell people more than they're willing to believe, even if it's the truth. And I think it falls into that category. I thank you for bringing up the safety portion of it. I think it's a better story. Well, the thing about the benefit, the community benefiting, it's the dichotomy between who's paying and who's getting the benefit. Who's paying for it is the people that live on that street. But people, everybody else is, not everybody, many people are driving through there. Benefiting from what you've paid for. That's the point. Now, we're not doing it so they'll benefit. But this is the fact that we're paying for it and they are benefiting the way it's funded now. And I prefer that they don't cut through my street. Well, then leave the hot holes and make it bad for them to go through. However, however, part of this is, if you remember, we added, and it's in the mission statement, about autonomy, about what we want to be able to do. If we have perfect roads, okay, so you say, well, they'll go, but if we could put speed bumps or something, physical impediments to slow them down, which we can't do right now, really, that's also part of what we want to try to do. Yeah. So. All right. Yeah, that's the picture I'm saying. That doesn't exist. That's on Mars. People would want to live here if it was like that. That looks like a northern mission. That's up north someplace, maybe. We're up north. Yeah, I was just there. That's right. In Leland. Okay, so the safety thing is going to be added. We'll add that. I like Leland. I know we do all of that. Okay. Well, we got that on. The red hat. Well, one of the things. And again, I'm new, so I want to listen more than anything else. And I read through the documents over the last couple of days a couple of times, and a lot of good ideas on how to fix the roads, a lot of good alternatives, suggestions. What's missing is how to stop the damage. Stop what? Stop the damage. And I think that, for me, I think that has to be a strong part of what we're proposing.

  16. However, however, part of this is, if you remember, we added, and it's in the mission statement, about autonomy, about what we want to be able to do. If we have perfect roads, okay, so you say, well, they'll go, but if we could put speed bumps or something, physical impediments to slow them down, which we can't do right now, really, that's also part of what we want to try to do. Yeah. So. All right. Yeah, that's the picture I'm saying. That doesn't exist. That's on Mars. People would want to live here if it was like that. That looks like a northern mission. That's up north someplace, maybe. We're up north. Yeah, I was just there. That's right. In Leland. Okay, so the safety thing is going to be added. We'll add that. I like Leland. I know we do all of that. Okay. Well, we got that on. The red hat. Well, one of the things. And again, I'm new, so I want to listen more than anything else. And I read through the documents over the last couple of days a couple of times, and a lot of good ideas on how to fix the roads, a lot of good alternatives, suggestions. What's missing is how to stop the damage. Stop what? Stop the damage. And I think that, for me, I think that has to be a strong part of what we're proposing. Because, you know, if we don't stop the damage through our building and permitting department, it doesn't matter how we're going to be fixing the roads again in another 8 or 10 years, not 30. So I, at least for what it's worth for me, I think that that is, if you're going to fix something, you've got to prevent it from getting broken again. Part of the problem is fixing it is not necessarily replacing what you have. It may be like where you have concrete, and we got a lecture on the gases falling apart of the concrete, and it's not the state of Michigan's fault. It's really a whole bunch of other people's fault. But if they were to come in my neighborhood and just put blacktop over it, that would be non-replacing it, but making it so that it's the way we, you know, people are hoping that it will be. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. Asphalt can be redone, reused, and then relayed. Now, you could say every 10 years that would be a horrible thing. Well, the cement in our neighborhood is only from 1988, and it's, as we say, horrible.

  17. Because, you know, if we don't stop the damage through our building and permitting department, it doesn't matter how we're going to be fixing the roads again in another 8 or 10 years, not 30. So I, at least for what it's worth for me, I think that that is, if you're going to fix something, you've got to prevent it from getting broken again. Part of the problem is fixing it is not necessarily replacing what you have. It may be like where you have concrete, and we got a lecture on the gases falling apart of the concrete, and it's not the state of Michigan's fault. It's really a whole bunch of other people's fault. But if they were to come in my neighborhood and just put blacktop over it, that would be non-replacing it, but making it so that it's the way we, you know, people are hoping that it will be. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. That can be replaced. Asphalt can be redone, reused, and then relayed. Now, you could say every 10 years that would be a horrible thing. Well, the cement in our neighborhood is only from 1988, and it's, as we say, horrible. So we could have replaced it once or twice, but I think it's an issue that you have to just think it through, like you mentioned there, and make the case to your neighbors, you said one neighbor would say it would be okay, or eight neighbors? Maybe, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. The one neighbor would be, you know, when you go out to the mailbox, you're not going to find a crater there, and when your grandchildren are there, they can ride their bikes like a human being, and when the scooters go by, that's a community benefit that we're talking about. And that's not a... Keep on focusing. We're not proposing any fixes or any solutions. Right. This is not... That's the next phase. We'll get into that. Well, we'll get the picketers. Right now, we'll just say what is. Well, the picketers will come and help us with that. Well, we just want to say what is. Now, the safety part of it that you said, yes, that's what is. No, you're right. You're right. That's what's going to be. We've got to stay on the lane. Okay. I'm sorry. Steve, did you want to say something? You have something? No, I was going to ask Fred for a follow-up, but I like your... Let's keep on... Let's not lose sight of the focus for this. Of this part. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I'll park...

  18. So we could have replaced it once or twice, but I think it's an issue that you have to just think it through, like you mentioned there, and make the case to your neighbors, you said one neighbor would say it would be okay, or eight neighbors? Maybe, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. The one neighbor would be, you know, when you go out to the mailbox, you're not going to find a crater there, and when your grandchildren are there, they can ride their bikes like a human being, and when the scooters go by, that's a community benefit that we're talking about. And that's not a... Keep on focusing. We're not proposing any fixes or any solutions. Right. This is not... That's the next phase. We'll get into that. Well, we'll get the picketers. Right now, we'll just say what is. Well, the picketers will come and help us with that. Well, we just want to say what is. Now, the safety part of it that you said, yes, that's what is. No, you're right. You're right. That's what's going to be. We've got to stay on the lane. Okay. I'm sorry. Steve, did you want to say something? You have something? No, I was going to ask Fred for a follow-up, but I like your... Let's keep on... Let's not lose sight of the focus for this. Of this part. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I'll park... my follow-up to fred later well i think i think you got to understand how did we get here and yeah and part of how we got here is age there's no doubt but the other part of how we got here is accelerated construction of you know big mansions in our subdivisions with large lots and you know it's like i use the example and the last presentation just of one house in my neighborhood two million pounds of dirt were removed from that property yeah you know that's got to be core to understanding how we got here we are accelerating the damage through the construction process and i would be willing to say that our permitting process probably hasn't changed in well that's a very long time it's a good point just as a follow-up and what i'm what i really don't want to get involved with right now only now is that what can we do about it because that that property is there it can be developed i don't think the township wants to not allow development so i'm not sure i mean we i think there was you were the one that talked about 10 concrete trucks lined up you

  19. my follow-up to fred later well i think i think you got to understand how did we get here and yeah and part of how we got here is age there's no doubt but the other part of how we got here is accelerated construction of you know big mansions in our subdivisions with large lots and you know it's like i use the example and the last presentation just of one house in my neighborhood two million pounds of dirt were removed from that property yeah you know that's got to be core to understanding how we got here we are accelerating the damage through the construction process and i would be willing to say that our permitting process probably hasn't changed in well that's a very long time it's a good point just as a follow-up and what i'm what i really don't want to get involved with right now only now is that what can we do about it because that that property is there it can be developed i don't think the township wants to not allow development so i'm not sure i mean we i think there was you were the one that talked about 10 concrete trucks lined up you know nose to tail you know each of which weighs 90 000 you know i mean a lot of weight bang bang bang and all the dirt that was removed and all that I don't have an answer I mean what let's just think about for the tomorrow discussion what would you do about that how would how would they permit it differently because that dirt that top cell has got to be removed though that concrete has to come through how would you do that so just think about what that what the solution looks like okay again I want to I want to say that that's again that's how we got here and what to do about it yeah outside the the scope that's what we have I agree that's a tomorrow but that's that's yes let's keep that in mind bring that up as we get into the next phase absolutely that's true so anyway let's let's get back to this report okay so what I wanted to suggest is a format I want to get your input on how we're going to do this I think whatever always happens Mike you have to introduce this to the agenda what's on the agenda but you have to introduce it because you put it on the agenda okay and then I would think that you would perhaps let me introduce the

  20. not sure i mean we i think there was you were the one that talked about 10 concrete trucks lined up you know nose to tail you know each of which weighs 90 000 you know i mean a lot of weight bang bang bang and all the dirt that was removed and all that I don't have an answer I mean what let's just think about for the tomorrow discussion what would you do about that how would how would they permit it differently because that dirt that top cell has got to be removed though that concrete has to come through how would you do that so just think about what that what the solution looks like okay again I want to I want to say that that's again that's how we got here and what to do about it yeah outside the the scope that's what we have I agree that's a tomorrow but that's that's yes let's keep that in mind bring that up as we get into the next phase absolutely that's true so anyway let's let's get back to this report okay so what I wanted to suggest is a format I want to get your input on how we're going to do this I think whatever always happens Mike you have to introduce this to the agenda what's on the agenda but you have to introduce it because you put it on the agenda okay and then I would think that you would perhaps let me introduce the subject absolutely you know okay so what I want to do is to use that photo that you had up there but with a road that actually exists in the township and take your choice but yeah well let's figure we'll find one okay and you have all the photos that I gave you last time I'm not I don't want I won't get into any of the reports when I do the introduction but I'd like to show is what I'm going to do is is tell tell show the mission statement why and and that you know and refresh you remember well you got to remember this is not just going to the board more importantly it's going out to the community who's watching this that's really who it's going gonna see it it's you know so I want to remind people of how this developed that that the town the board of trustees appointed this committee to do this and have the mission statement and you know a little bit of a little just a little of that but what I want to do is say is show this I want to put this pacer report right away and I say say you know it's worth a thousand a

  21. agenda okay and then I would think that you would perhaps let me introduce the subject absolutely you know okay so what I want to do is to use that photo that you had up there but with a road that actually exists in the township and take your choice but yeah well let's figure we'll find one okay and you have all the photos that I gave you last time I'm not I don't want I won't get into any of the reports when I do the introduction but I'd like to show is what I'm going to do is is tell tell show the mission statement why and and that you know and refresh you remember well you got to remember this is not just going to the board more importantly it's going out to the community who's watching this that's really who it's going gonna see it it's you know so I want to remind people of how this developed that that the town the board of trustees appointed this committee to do this and have the mission statement and you know a little bit of a little just a little of that but what I want to do is say is show this I want to put this pacer report right away and I say say you know it's worth a thousand a picture is worth a thousand words and here it is this is the crux of the problem that is what we have and I'll go into a little bit but I'm going to say that it's going to be fully reported on later you know in the in the individual reports but I want them to see that's what we have and and so that's it might be powerful to add that's that's their rating I mean that's their analysis it's not our you know home yeah it's there that's there it's the county it's not our home cooked we're trying to put our thumb on the scale this is what the county and that's part of what I want to when I bring something like that I'm gonna say what we're gonna show you here tonight yeah it's not just stuff anecdotal stuff and people tell us what's going on this up in it this is the fact from the authority that's not ours that's just what you said I want to emphasize that yeah now what I also want to emphasize is that what we're showing them tonight there are no solutions in here I want to write a phone tell there's not going to be any solutions we have none no recommendations no solutions and I'm going to say if you're if you've tuned in to see solutions well turn go to another channel because you're not going to see it and and then say this is just the beginning and I you know some quote except depends on what happens in the

  22. put this pacer report right away and I say say you know it's worth a thousand a picture is worth a thousand words and here it is this is the crux of the problem that is what we have and I'll go into a little bit but I'm going to say that it's going to be fully reported on later you know in the in the individual reports but I want them to see that's what we have and and so that's it might be powerful to add that's that's their rating I mean that's their analysis it's not our you know home yeah it's there that's there it's the county it's not our home cooked we're trying to put our thumb on the scale this is what the county and that's part of what I want to when I bring something like that I'm gonna say what we're gonna show you here tonight yeah it's not just stuff anecdotal stuff and people tell us what's going on this up in it this is the fact from the authority that's not ours that's just what you said I want to emphasize that yeah now what I also want to emphasize is that what we're showing them tonight there are no solutions in here I want to write a phone tell there's not going to be any solutions we have none no recommendations no solutions and I'm going to say if you're if you've tuned in to see solutions well turn go to another channel because you're not going to see it and and then say this is just the beginning and I you know some quote except depends on what happens in the next 13 days from a budget point of view well that could be it we're going to talk about that I mean that's okay we'll get into that after we got 13 days I know only solution is a city right now right sorry you said they're not solution is right now the only solution is a city well no I'm not going to go into that I mean we'll say that's the current situation the situation is and we have it written in that the current situation is that the company that each individual the homeowners pay for it that's how that's the situation but I'm not going to start talking about what we need to any anything other than what really is the facts as they are on the ground right now because if we start doing that then it just dilutes what we've done what we've done is terrific work here and it's factual it's no not just hearsay it's from the from the source and this is real not made up well that's all I want to do that's the purpose is you're we're only going to agree what the situation is based upon this report we're presenting to them that's the bottom line this is this is the bottom of the foundation of which every other decision should be made I'd like to just kind of like so I don't miss a deadline the presentations are all going to be put on PowerPoint is that correct right who's going to do this Sue and I are going to work on

  23. beginning and I you know some quote except depends on what happens in the next 13 days from a budget point of view well that could be it we're going to talk about that I mean that's okay we'll get into that after we got 13 days I know only solution is a city right now right sorry you said they're not solution is right now the only solution is a city well no I'm not going to go into that I mean we'll say that's the current situation the situation is and we have it written in that the current situation is that the company that each individual the homeowners pay for it that's how that's the situation but I'm not going to start talking about what we need to any anything other than what really is the facts as they are on the ground right now because if we start doing that then it just dilutes what we've done what we've done is terrific work here and it's factual it's no not just hearsay it's from the from the source and this is real not made up well that's all I want to do that's the purpose is you're we're only going to agree what the situation is based upon this report we're presenting to them that's the bottom line this is this is the bottom of the foundation of which every other decision should be made I'd like to just kind of like so I don't miss a deadline the presentations are all going to be put on PowerPoint is that correct right who's going to do this Sue and I are going to work on this together okay make sure that everything so and so if we have ideas about the PowerPoint subscripts that need to be there we just send them on to you and you can say yeah yeah any ideas how many minutes are you supposed to speak I have no idea I don't know three well it'll be agenda item no I mean I'm talking about I mean like some of these you're going to spend much more time mine yeah it basically reiterates regurgitates what the situation is we don't have to go through a big history lesson purpose and and we will just say I'm sorry I thought I shut my phone we'll go through and say these are the you know that this is where we are this is the situation but some of these are much more interesting than that and obviously require more detailed discussion well so what's the date we want those you want to know what our take is on the PowerPoint presentation well as soon as you can get it in I mean this what you've already presented that's the gist the gist of the report that's there now you I think I think you do Sue you want to you need to have a discussion I think with Sue

  24. be put on PowerPoint is that correct right who's going to do this Sue and I are going to work on this together okay make sure that everything so and so if we have ideas about the PowerPoint subscripts that need to be there we just send them on to you and you can say yeah yeah any ideas how many minutes are you supposed to speak I have no idea I don't know three well it'll be agenda item no I mean I'm talking about I mean like some of these you're going to spend much more time mine yeah it basically reiterates regurgitates what the situation is we don't have to go through a big history lesson purpose and and we will just say I'm sorry I thought I shut my phone we'll go through and say these are the you know that this is where we are this is the situation but some of these are much more interesting than that and obviously require more detailed discussion well so what's the date we want those you want to know what our take is on the PowerPoint presentation well as soon as you can get it in I mean this what you've already presented that's the gist the gist of the report that's there now you I think I think you do Sue you want to you need to have a discussion I think with Sue about your report to clear some things up she asked me about it and I think you should be the one who's just for perspectives who's 12 hours away from major surgery she's yeah but but okay she's 12 hours away well major surgery keep that in mind okay all right anyway that's my just my business there's no typically agenda item there's no time so it really is all right you know we don't want to go on for four hours I mean so everybody speaks five minutes there's four that's 20 minutes not a question question so if we get it under a half hour with 20 minutes right that's pretty reasonable yeah and remember each trustee will get a copy in their agenda of the report and I know many of them review that thoroughly before the meeting okay all right so we'll get it to you as fast as they may have questions sure I mean go from there we'll have to you know and they'll if if they ask me I'm you know and I'm telling you everybody doesn't I'm the chair I'm up there if I I don't have the answer if I can refer to one of you for you and if you don't have the answer now look if you don't know don't try to make something I have no clue I don't know is an answer yeah I I don't

  25. about your report to clear some things up she asked me about it and I think you should be the one who's just for perspectives who's 12 hours away from major surgery she's yeah but but okay she's 12 hours away well major surgery keep that in mind okay all right anyway that's my just my business there's no typically agenda item there's no time so it really is all right you know we don't want to go on for four hours I mean so everybody speaks five minutes there's four that's 20 minutes not a question question so if we get it under a half hour with 20 minutes right that's pretty reasonable yeah and remember each trustee will get a copy in their agenda of the report and I know many of them review that thoroughly before the meeting okay all right so we'll get it to you as fast as they may have questions sure I mean go from there we'll have to you know and they'll if if they ask me I'm you know and I'm telling you everybody doesn't I'm the chair I'm up there if I I don't have the answer if I can refer to one of you for you and if you don't have the answer now look if you don't know don't try to make something I have no clue I don't know is an answer yeah I I don't know is a good answer it's a deposition yeah yeah I mean I haven't got a clue that's all we don't say we're not clueless we just don't know if you ask me but I have no I don't know what the answer to your question is. I think most of the questions will be out of the screen. We'll find out and get it back to you. But you've got to remember, this is just an interim update on what we've done so that they know and people know. We've been doing this six months now. You realize that March, I think, is when we got this. Was that the first meeting? Well, I think March is when they, all right, let's say we're doing it for five, and I've talked to you six months. Yeah. So what have you been doing for six months? Well, this is what we've been doing. This is what it is. Getting educated. Getting educated. And that's the whole purpose. Yep. Jeff, go ahead. When do you think you'll have a draft of the PowerPoint? I've started it. It's just whittling down exactly what you guys want. Like Dr. Asarian, there's so much information. I just need to know what he really, I would say like eight solid points. Yeah. That's okay. That's what I, okay. What? You're going to be. I'll be fine. I'll be at home. I'll be working from home. Okay. Would you be able to. We'll get it straight. Yeah. The first week of October, would you be available that we could get together and work on it?

  26. don't try to make something I have no clue I don't know is an answer yeah I I don't know is a good answer it's a deposition yeah yeah I mean I haven't got a clue that's all we don't say we're not clueless we just don't know if you ask me but I have no I don't know what the answer to your question is. I think most of the questions will be out of the screen. We'll find out and get it back to you. But you've got to remember, this is just an interim update on what we've done so that they know and people know. We've been doing this six months now. You realize that March, I think, is when we got this. Was that the first meeting? Well, I think March is when they, all right, let's say we're doing it for five, and I've talked to you six months. Yeah. So what have you been doing for six months? Well, this is what we've been doing. This is what it is. Getting educated. Getting educated. And that's the whole purpose. Yep. Jeff, go ahead. When do you think you'll have a draft of the PowerPoint? I've started it. It's just whittling down exactly what you guys want. Like Dr. Asarian, there's so much information. I just need to know what he really, I would say like eight solid points. Yeah. That's okay. That's what I, okay. What? You're going to be. I'll be fine. I'll be at home. I'll be working from home. Okay. Would you be able to. We'll get it straight. Yeah. The first week of October, would you be available that we could get together and work on it? Yeah. I'm back in the office on the set. That's fine. Because I think the third, that's a week before the presentation. But I plan on working on it at home. Okay. So I'll probably be in trouble. So it would be good to get, when it's done, given your personal health situation, to get it to the board. And then I think we're supposed to meet in two weeks. Is that the plan? So it would be nice if we had a draft. Yeah. When we met. Using timeframe. When we meet. And then we can say okay. Okay, now look. tweak it because we're then you know two weeks out but if we have something that's how i think well that's a good target i like targets yeah so if we can do that we can react to it then it's two weeks to clean it perfect so our next meeting is what day october first thank you october first so getting back to the the format of the presentation so once i do the do it i'll do an introduction that little background whatever you know so that we they know what we're here for they know exactly and the people who are listening at home in the audience they know what to expect um then still go to each you know group and whoever but i want to get again i want i want between now and then whoever's going to do the presentation from your group um so that i know exactly who it's going to be and i can put that in my notes and i'm you know don't have a problem um and then then after

  27. The first week of October, would you be available that we could get together and work on it? Yeah. I'm back in the office on the set. That's fine. Because I think the third, that's a week before the presentation. But I plan on working on it at home. Okay. So I'll probably be in trouble. So it would be good to get, when it's done, given your personal health situation, to get it to the board. And then I think we're supposed to meet in two weeks. Is that the plan? So it would be nice if we had a draft. Yeah. When we met. Using timeframe. When we meet. And then we can say okay. Okay, now look. tweak it because we're then you know two weeks out but if we have something that's how i think well that's a good target i like targets yeah so if we can do that we can react to it then it's two weeks to clean it perfect so our next meeting is what day october first thank you october first so getting back to the the format of the presentation so once i do the do it i'll do an introduction that little background whatever you know so that we they know what we're here for they know exactly and the people who are listening at home in the audience they know what to expect um then still go to each you know group and whoever but i want to get again i want i want between now and then whoever's going to do the presentation from your group um so that i know exactly who it's going to be and i can put that in my notes and i'm you know don't have a problem um and then then after that's done then come back to me and i'll ask you know are there any you know we have any questions anything and and again reiterate that this is just the beginning and we'll we'll keep them up to date but if any questions on on any of the information that we got you know any of the data and that's one you may have to your own group whoever is doing it yeah you may have to come up with you know an answer or i don't know well some have a bigger data trench than others so that's well that's the bottom like the financial your jeff your stuff yeah uh there's a lot in there but it looks like she's got a good jump on this yeah so i did just kind of paraphrase from what you guys had provided again you might want something more substantial put in there can you send that out to us now yeah yeah see it again really just a few sides the what's it send what you got see that that I want right up I want to have that right up front to show people exactly what what we're dealing with and then again again under the presentation from that group but I think Jeff if you if we leave it where it is there's a lot of explanation as to how to interpret that

  28. going to be and i can put that in my notes and i'm you know don't have a problem um and then then after that's done then come back to me and i'll ask you know are there any you know we have any questions anything and and again reiterate that this is just the beginning and we'll we'll keep them up to date but if any questions on on any of the information that we got you know any of the data and that's one you may have to your own group whoever is doing it yeah you may have to come up with you know an answer or i don't know well some have a bigger data trench than others so that's well that's the bottom like the financial your jeff your stuff yeah uh there's a lot in there but it looks like she's got a good jump on this yeah so i did just kind of paraphrase from what you guys had provided again you might want something more substantial put in there can you send that out to us now yeah yeah see it again really just a few sides the what's it send what you got see that that I want right up I want to have that right up front to show people exactly what what we're dealing with and then again again under the presentation from that group but I think Jeff if you if we leave it where it is there's a lot of explanation as to how to interpret that other than the fact red obviously must mean something bad I'd rather go through how the pacer oh no we actually have generous or that gets shown to them but I also want it to be open up in the front right the beginning in the introduction to say what is there it is this is what we got first thing you know later with the explanation oh look at you I like it look at you so I could do it that way or we can move it right up both leave it in both places do it twice yeah twice yeah this is a reminder I like that look at you maybe do that and maybe finish with it again and then we're gonna have a piece of asphalt we'll pass around to all the visuals then finish up the most people people they see a visual and that visual is really something that right yeah I have one question what what is What is our desired outcome as a committee for this presentation? For this presentation? Just to give information? To know what the problem is. What's the problem? Update. What have we done in the last six months? Shouldn't we state that right up front at the beginning?

  29. leave it where it is there's a lot of explanation as to how to interpret that other than the fact red obviously must mean something bad I'd rather go through how the pacer oh no we actually have generous or that gets shown to them but I also want it to be open up in the front right the beginning in the introduction to say what is there it is this is what we got first thing you know later with the explanation oh look at you I like it look at you so I could do it that way or we can move it right up both leave it in both places do it twice yeah twice yeah this is a reminder I like that look at you maybe do that and maybe finish with it again and then we're gonna have a piece of asphalt we'll pass around to all the visuals then finish up the most people people they see a visual and that visual is really something that right yeah I have one question what what is What is our desired outcome as a committee for this presentation? For this presentation? Just to give information? To know what the problem is. What's the problem? Update. What have we done in the last six months? Shouldn't we state that right up front at the beginning? That's exactly what I'm going to do. That's part of my introduction. I always like starting presentations with my desired outcome for this presentation is. That's the assumption. Because you don't want people to over-expect what is going to come. But you also don't want to under-expect. That's exactly why I said in the introduction. They say if you're looking for solutions from this presentation, turn to another channel. Because there won't be any. Right up front. That's it. The purpose of this, and that's part of the introduction, is to give you the information that we've gathered over the last six months. The real situation. The real information. I think the mission kind of describes it. That's the point. Exactly. Mission sort of describes where we are at, where we're going, right? Well, the mission statement that's going to be right up on the, that I'm going to point to, that's the total of what we're going to do. Right. That's really, it's really a general outline, a roadmap of what we want to do. That's a good point. Right after that, you can say that this is just the beginning, right? Well, I'm going to use a, I'm going to use a Winston Churchill quote. That this is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. But it is the end of the beginning. That's Winston. Winston Churchill. Can we put that up on the end? I think that should be the first slide. Yeah, that could be the first slide.

  30. That's exactly what I'm going to do. That's part of my introduction. I always like starting presentations with my desired outcome for this presentation is. That's the assumption. Because you don't want people to over-expect what is going to come. But you also don't want to under-expect. That's exactly why I said in the introduction. They say if you're looking for solutions from this presentation, turn to another channel. Because there won't be any. Right up front. That's it. The purpose of this, and that's part of the introduction, is to give you the information that we've gathered over the last six months. The real situation. The real information. I think the mission kind of describes it. That's the point. Exactly. Mission sort of describes where we are at, where we're going, right? Well, the mission statement that's going to be right up on the, that I'm going to point to, that's the total of what we're going to do. Right. That's really, it's really a general outline, a roadmap of what we want to do. That's a good point. Right after that, you can say that this is just the beginning, right? Well, I'm going to use a, I'm going to use a Winston Churchill quote. That this is not the end. This is not the beginning of the end. But it is the end of the beginning. That's Winston. Winston Churchill. Can we put that up on the end? I think that should be the first slide. Yeah, that could be the first slide. I like it. Yeah. Hey, Winston Churchill did not well with it. Well, there's a. If you're in Alamein. I was impressed you didn't remember it. No, I don't think so. Not a lot of people know that quote, but it's never been before. It's a good one. All right, anyway. It's like, who's on first? Never let a good crisis go to waste. That's what Winston Churchill, yeah. All right, anyway. Interesting. More comments? Any other comments on the, the format? No. Okay, now, so we've got, we have the reports in place up to this point. We have the format of the presentation. You know, that was pretty much the purpose of this meeting today. Any other, any other, anything else you want to bring up about just, but again, stay focused on this. Mike had brought up there'd be a handout to the trustees ahead of time. So is that just a conglomeration of this stuff? It'll be the report that we're going to submit to them that Jeff's going to present. The actual report. The actual report. The actual report. Every trustee gets an agenda, and in the agenda, in the packet, there's information on every agenda item. Okay. As it's presented, so they have it in front of them, and they should have previewed it before they get there. Which would be the PowerPoint presentation. Yeah. Yeah.

  31. I like it. Yeah. Hey, Winston Churchill did not well with it. Well, there's a. If you're in Alamein. I was impressed you didn't remember it. No, I don't think so. Not a lot of people know that quote, but it's never been before. It's a good one. All right, anyway. It's like, who's on first? Never let a good crisis go to waste. That's what Winston Churchill, yeah. All right, anyway. Interesting. More comments? Any other comments on the, the format? No. Okay, now, so we've got, we have the reports in place up to this point. We have the format of the presentation. You know, that was pretty much the purpose of this meeting today. Any other, any other, anything else you want to bring up about just, but again, stay focused on this. Mike had brought up there'd be a handout to the trustees ahead of time. So is that just a conglomeration of this stuff? It'll be the report that we're going to submit to them that Jeff's going to present. The actual report. The actual report. The actual report. Every trustee gets an agenda, and in the agenda, in the packet, there's information on every agenda item. Okay. As it's presented, so they have it in front of them, and they should have previewed it before they get there. Which would be the PowerPoint presentation. Yeah. Yeah. It wouldn't be all this stuff. Oh, okay. So this is just for talking points to understand what the bullet points need to be. This is how we develop the bullet points. Got you. Thank you. Is there any benefit? I'm just throwing out a brainstorm. Brains court. Thank you. Thank you. list all the people we had, you know, shows us how deep our research is, where all this information coming from, right? So, we are not experts ourselves, but we have all these people gave us information, and based on that, we are presenting this. I don't think that's in here. It's not, but there could be one slide with all those people. Absolutely, we need a brief. Okay, that's absolutely what we need. I think we have a degree in community, in civil engineering, by the end of this. Okay, I'm going to write that, I want to make sure I put that, add... Just speakers. It just had a slide with a bullet of all the people who have been there. So, we had MDOT, we had a legislator, we got it. Yeah, there it is, okay, that's what you want, right? Thank you. Yeah, the timelines, the great current action. That was at each meeting, and giving us a presentation.

  32. It wouldn't be all this stuff. Oh, okay. So this is just for talking points to understand what the bullet points need to be. This is how we develop the bullet points. Got you. Thank you. Is there any benefit? I'm just throwing out a brainstorm. Brains court. Thank you. Thank you. list all the people we had, you know, shows us how deep our research is, where all this information coming from, right? So, we are not experts ourselves, but we have all these people gave us information, and based on that, we are presenting this. I don't think that's in here. It's not, but there could be one slide with all those people. Absolutely, we need a brief. Okay, that's absolutely what we need. I think we have a degree in community, in civil engineering, by the end of this. Okay, I'm going to write that, I want to make sure I put that, add... Just speakers. It just had a slide with a bullet of all the people who have been there. So, we had MDOT, we had a legislator, we got it. Yeah, there it is, okay, that's what you want, right? Thank you. Yeah, the timelines, the great current action. That was at each meeting, and giving us a presentation. I didn't notice that before. Me neither. You're a mind reader, right? Boy, you're way ahead of us. Why don't you just come up with the solutions, come up with everything, what we need to do, and then we... I'll get out of here. Save us some time. Like on every TV show on TV. I'm on it, boss, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. Okay, are we assuming that everybody understands the disconnect over ownership and funding? We will... That's part of what this is about. Because that's a part that I, you know, when I talk to my neighbors, you know, there's an assumption that the township owns the roads. No, no. And there's all kinds of assumptions, but I don't think anybody, I don't, anybody, I don't think the majority of our citizens understand that the ownership of the roads falls within the road commission, but they don't have any money. Yeah. So that's a huge disconnect as far as how do, you know, how do we move to this next phase of fixing it? Yeah. That's the bulk of my part. Should I add that to the introduction or should it be in the report? That's a bulk of number two. It talks about who owns what as far as the streets, who's getting funded for it, and who's not getting funded for it.

  33. That was at each meeting, and giving us a presentation. I didn't notice that before. Me neither. You're a mind reader, right? Boy, you're way ahead of us. Why don't you just come up with the solutions, come up with everything, what we need to do, and then we... I'll get out of here. Save us some time. Like on every TV show on TV. I'm on it, boss, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. Okay, are we assuming that everybody understands the disconnect over ownership and funding? We will... That's part of what this is about. Because that's a part that I, you know, when I talk to my neighbors, you know, there's an assumption that the township owns the roads. No, no. And there's all kinds of assumptions, but I don't think anybody, I don't, anybody, I don't think the majority of our citizens understand that the ownership of the roads falls within the road commission, but they don't have any money. Yeah. So that's a huge disconnect as far as how do, you know, how do we move to this next phase of fixing it? Yeah. That's the bulk of my part. Should I add that to the introduction or should it be in the report? That's a bulk of number two. It talks about who owns what as far as the streets, who's getting funded for it, and who's not getting funded for it. I just looked at it and see that. But sees it being a problem. Yeah. So that'll be in your report. He laid it out. He laid it out. I'm on that committee too. Right. Good. Yes, sir. There you go. Go ahead. That's right. And then we cycle back. You're right. But that's the most misunderstood thing. Everybody I talk to says, well, how come we can't, you know, because we don't own the road. We don't, you know, and that's a big disconnect. As I understand, we don't even own an easement. No, it's about 17 feet into your property. It's county owned. Oh, is that right? You measure from the center of the road. If it's a 60 foot right away, you measure 30 feet from the center of the road onto your property. Generally, it's about 17 feet in from the curb or from the road. That's the county. Okay. Not only are they not taking care of the roads, they're not taking care of the ditches. The swales. Correct. They're not doing that. Which leads to problems on the roads. Well, okay. And of the houses. Yeah, okay. But what you suggest is correct, and that, as John said, that'll be in that report. Okay. So can we move on to the next subject? Yeah. Which is? Deer.

  34. It talks about who owns what as far as the streets, who's getting funded for it, and who's not getting funded for it. I just looked at it and see that. But sees it being a problem. Yeah. So that'll be in your report. He laid it out. He laid it out. I'm on that committee too. Right. Good. Yes, sir. There you go. Go ahead. That's right. And then we cycle back. You're right. But that's the most misunderstood thing. Everybody I talk to says, well, how come we can't, you know, because we don't own the road. We don't, you know, and that's a big disconnect. As I understand, we don't even own an easement. No, it's about 17 feet into your property. It's county owned. Oh, is that right? You measure from the center of the road. If it's a 60 foot right away, you measure 30 feet from the center of the road onto your property. Generally, it's about 17 feet in from the curb or from the road. That's the county. Okay. Not only are they not taking care of the roads, they're not taking care of the ditches. The swales. Correct. They're not doing that. Which leads to problems on the roads. Well, okay. And of the houses. Yeah, okay. But what you suggest is correct, and that, as John said, that'll be in that report. Okay. So can we move on to the next subject? Yeah. Which is? Deer. Oh, I was going to put that under items. Right, okay. If we're done with that, then I'll bring it up. Deer. All right. Okay. We have one item. Oh, jeez. Mike, you want to talk about that? I need to leave right at 530. I apologize. Go ahead. So the board trustees had a very interesting presentation from the DNR at our last meeting. And Sue, can we make sure they each get an email with that presentation? It lasts about an hour. We talked about deer. And we're getting a lot of complaints in the community about the deer population and the damage it's doing to people's property. And we talked about putting a citizen's commission together to learn about the deer problem and maybe come back and make some recommendations. And I thought we could put a new committee together, take some time. And I thought maybe this committee could consider looking into the deer situation. We want to try to get a new deer plan. And then, when I say that we will be in the deer plan, we can do something. discussing it and maybe come back with some recommendations if you're comfortable doing it if you're not and we don't need to answer it tonight we can just think about it because we're here we're all from different neighbors neighborhoods and I don't know how you feel about the deer and I feel about the

  35. Deer. Oh, I was going to put that under items. Right, okay. If we're done with that, then I'll bring it up. Deer. All right. Okay. We have one item. Oh, jeez. Mike, you want to talk about that? I need to leave right at 530. I apologize. Go ahead. So the board trustees had a very interesting presentation from the DNR at our last meeting. And Sue, can we make sure they each get an email with that presentation? It lasts about an hour. We talked about deer. And we're getting a lot of complaints in the community about the deer population and the damage it's doing to people's property. And we talked about putting a citizen's commission together to learn about the deer problem and maybe come back and make some recommendations. And I thought we could put a new committee together, take some time. And I thought maybe this committee could consider looking into the deer situation. We want to try to get a new deer plan. And then, when I say that we will be in the deer plan, we can do something. discussing it and maybe come back with some recommendations if you're comfortable doing it if you're not and we don't need to answer it tonight we can just think about it because we're here we're all from different neighbors neighborhoods and I don't know how you feel about the deer and I feel about the deer so deer deer well it's a question if you want this community to do it or not not feel about it right what this community how you feel about it here thinks about tackling the subject on top of the road your ticker is a problem my my grandson got yeah and then you know luckily it kind of was cured but that people I've seen that Lyme disease can disable what are you what are your thoughts about us taking that on but you know as a newbie and having had a chance to present to this group my experience is when you put a committee together a huge component of the committee is the dynamics of the people and so once you learn the dynamics of how people think and react with each other what that committee can do is endless in my opinion I don't have a problem I mean you know you want to learn about tick disease I'd be glad to explain but no it's because it again it's all about

  36. neighborhoods and I don't know how you feel about the deer and I feel about the deer so deer deer well it's a question if you want this community to do it or not not feel about it right what this community how you feel about it here thinks about tackling the subject on top of the road your ticker is a problem my my grandson got yeah and then you know luckily it kind of was cured but that people I've seen that Lyme disease can disable what are you what are your thoughts about us taking that on but you know as a newbie and having had a chance to present to this group my experience is when you put a committee together a huge component of the committee is the dynamics of the people and so once you learn the dynamics of how people think and react with each other what that committee can do is endless in my opinion I don't have a problem I mean you know you want to learn about tick disease I'd be glad to explain but no it's because it again it's all about safety and you know i don't i don't think it's nice the deer walk through it and then they bring other animals the coyotes and things like that that are trying to get the fawns and and whatever it is but i don't know what i don't know what world what yeah turkeys um i don't know what our world they think they can do about it without culling the herd and i don't know that they're willing to do that but anyway yeah it would be interesting steve do you have something oh i'm sorry i thought you wanted to interject into this no i i'm taking it in okay um i i see you you've had no i'm going to respectfully just completely disagree with what you said i think and i sent that email back to you this committee was was was formed to do one thing and that was look at roads by taking on another subject and doing that it's going to dilute the focus of this committee but deer cause problems just let me give you my opinion that's all they do cause problems so a lot of things traffic causes problems um the schools need help uh there's lots of problems there's lots of things you know um i understand what are we do we want to dilute not now this committee does by taking on another thing unless you want to change this committee not to road advisory committee but create a committee make and maybe this is it township advisory committee

  37. safety and you know i don't i don't think it's nice the deer walk through it and then they bring other animals the coyotes and things like that that are trying to get the fawns and and whatever it is but i don't know what i don't know what world what yeah turkeys um i don't know what our world they think they can do about it without culling the herd and i don't know that they're willing to do that but anyway yeah it would be interesting steve do you have something oh i'm sorry i thought you wanted to interject into this no i i'm taking it in okay um i i see you you've had no i'm going to respectfully just completely disagree with what you said i think and i sent that email back to you this committee was was was formed to do one thing and that was look at roads by taking on another subject and doing that it's going to dilute the focus of this committee but deer cause problems just let me give you my opinion that's all they do cause problems so a lot of things traffic causes problems um the schools need help uh there's lots of problems there's lots of things you know um i understand what are we do we want to dilute not now this committee does by taking on another thing unless you want to change this committee not to road advisory committee but create a committee make and maybe this is it township advisory committee policy committee advisory committee meaning that it could take on any subject any subject that comes along we can advise the township a permanent committee advisory committee I'm not saying we should but I really don't think in my opinion it's only one vote well I disagree with what anything you said I think we dilute what we're gonna do and we need to focus on what we're doing that's my opinion and if you don't agree and I would only address it if it has something to do with the purpose of the committee that was my point or after this or after this is done he may want to resurrect the committee to do it because of the dynamics of the committee which are absolutely valid but no I don't have a I don't have an issue with them you know you could stick turkeys in there too if you want because what's the timing I mean is this start tomorrow or is it because we don't know where this is going because the state's got two weeks to do its thing right we can set our own schedule with it I don't think there's any rush okay but we do we have to address it one of our trustees came up with the idea then this is humorous that we bring in some wolves and panthers to help clean up the deer and then we bring in the bear to help

  38. to road advisory committee but create a committee make and maybe this is it township advisory committee policy committee advisory committee meaning that it could take on any subject any subject that comes along we can advise the township a permanent committee advisory committee I'm not saying we should but I really don't think in my opinion it's only one vote well I disagree with what anything you said I think we dilute what we're gonna do and we need to focus on what we're doing that's my opinion and if you don't agree and I would only address it if it has something to do with the purpose of the committee that was my point or after this or after this is done he may want to resurrect the committee to do it because of the dynamics of the committee which are absolutely valid but no I don't have a I don't have an issue with them you know you could stick turkeys in there too if you want because what's the timing I mean is this start tomorrow or is it because we don't know where this is going because the state's got two weeks to do its thing right we can set our own schedule with it I don't think there's any rush okay but we do we have to address it one of our trustees came up with the idea then this is humorous that we bring in some wolves and panthers to help clean up the deer and then we bring in the bear to help clean up the wolves and the panthers and then we catch the bear and put them in the zoo but I think roads are a priority for us we can address it anytime we want but it needs to start to be addressed and I think the first move that the trustees can do is put out an ordinance saying it's illegal to feed the deer we don't have an ordinance on that so we can at least do something in the meantime right and then we can you have people come in and address the committee at a future date, but if you don't want to do it, that's fine. We can put together another deer advisory committee, but since we were here, I thought let's run it by this group because this is a pretty balanced group from different neighborhoods. I don't know how you feel about the deer, so it's kind of a neutral. Well, that's another issue. That's personal to everybody. Right, but I haven't cued any of you about how do you feel about deer? Do you have deer problems? What do you think should happen? I thought let's have the conversation, and like Jeff said, he wants to stay focused on this, but I said let's at least talk about it. The proper way to do it is to put that on the agenda at the next meeting on October 1st so that we can vote on it. You can't vote on anything that's not on the agenda. It's just not done. Robert's Rules don't like it. You don't do that because then other people

  39. and panthers to help clean up the deer and then we bring in the bear to help clean up the wolves and the panthers and then we catch the bear and put them in the zoo but I think roads are a priority for us we can address it anytime we want but it needs to start to be addressed and I think the first move that the trustees can do is put out an ordinance saying it's illegal to feed the deer we don't have an ordinance on that so we can at least do something in the meantime right and then we can you have people come in and address the committee at a future date, but if you don't want to do it, that's fine. We can put together another deer advisory committee, but since we were here, I thought let's run it by this group because this is a pretty balanced group from different neighborhoods. I don't know how you feel about the deer, so it's kind of a neutral. Well, that's another issue. That's personal to everybody. Right, but I haven't cued any of you about how do you feel about deer? Do you have deer problems? What do you think should happen? I thought let's have the conversation, and like Jeff said, he wants to stay focused on this, but I said let's at least talk about it. The proper way to do it is to put that on the agenda at the next meeting on October 1st so that we can vote on it. You can't vote on anything that's not on the agenda. It's just not done. Robert's Rules don't like it. You don't do that because then other people who are out there, they don't know you're going to do it, and all of a sudden you ram something through. You can't do that, but if you put it on the agenda, an item on the agenda, we can vote on it. So I would suggest that we ask the question, put it on the agenda for the next meeting as an agenda item, and we'll vote on whether you want to take it on or discuss it and see what happens. Jeff. An alternative could be, say, you're going to create a deer advisory committee. How many people, because you're talking about the group dynamics and interaction, how many of the people on this committee would be willing to also serve on that committee? And that may give you a core of community representation and the three or four or five of us, I would serve on it. Okay. And then you supplement it that way. confused you know mission yeah i've had a few people email say they they'd like to participate but i mean i think there's a couple of us that probably do it and so then you could have a core of group working together and then it's a nice idea and then sue's going to afford you the um youtube video the presentation so you can at least start to get your feet long it's a it's yeah it's an hour long it's an excellent presentation all right so we will put it on the agenda for the next meeting about deer that's the presentation uh the dnr's presentation okay so when you're home you can't sleep at night you know what is the overall timeline for

  40. not done. Robert's Rules don't like it. You don't do that because then other people who are out there, they don't know you're going to do it, and all of a sudden you ram something through. You can't do that, but if you put it on the agenda, an item on the agenda, we can vote on it. So I would suggest that we ask the question, put it on the agenda for the next meeting as an agenda item, and we'll vote on whether you want to take it on or discuss it and see what happens. Jeff. An alternative could be, say, you're going to create a deer advisory committee. How many people, because you're talking about the group dynamics and interaction, how many of the people on this committee would be willing to also serve on that committee? And that may give you a core of community representation and the three or four or five of us, I would serve on it. Okay. And then you supplement it that way. confused you know mission yeah i've had a few people email say they they'd like to participate but i mean i think there's a couple of us that probably do it and so then you could have a core of group working together and then it's a nice idea and then sue's going to afford you the um youtube video the presentation so you can at least start to get your feet long it's a it's yeah it's an hour long it's an excellent presentation all right so we will put it on the agenda for the next meeting about deer that's the presentation uh the dnr's presentation okay so when you're home you can't sleep at night you know what is the overall timeline for this committee what is the final report do yeah i would say not you know in my mind the work of this committee never really stops but it should at least get to a point where um it becomes a quarterly review of of status type of thing so that we don't just fall right back into the same trench we're in right now but my mind works in microsoft project you know and so i see timelines and i guess what i would being a newbie what i'd like to understand is what's our timeline and where are we on the on the overall timeline well we never established a timeline we never did because and there was a reason we talked about that at the very beginning because we want to make sure we get this done properly and thoroughly and it doesn't it's not going to take i mean it's not going to be an immediate satisfaction now we couldn't do that again it could be an agenda item that we could establish a timeline but we have never done we didn't we did we establish what we want to accomplish that's the mission statement okay and this is the interim report now if you in a future meeting we put it on an agenda

  41. so when you're home you can't sleep at night you know what is the overall timeline for this committee what is the final report do yeah i would say not you know in my mind the work of this committee never really stops but it should at least get to a point where um it becomes a quarterly review of of status type of thing so that we don't just fall right back into the same trench we're in right now but my mind works in microsoft project you know and so i see timelines and i guess what i would being a newbie what i'd like to understand is what's our timeline and where are we on the on the overall timeline well we never established a timeline we never did because and there was a reason we talked about that at the very beginning because we want to make sure we get this done properly and thoroughly and it doesn't it's not going to take i mean it's not going to be an immediate satisfaction now we couldn't do that again it could be an agenda item that we could establish a timeline but we have never done we didn't we did we establish what we want to accomplish that's the mission statement okay and this is the interim report now if you in a future meeting we put it on an agenda next meeting if you want to propose a timeline that's certainly your prerogative we could do that but we don't have one right now even if you don't have time one of the neat things about Microsoft Project is that you can list activities and how activities interact with other activities so whether or not you actually put dates on it is not as relevant as as understanding what the tasks are which may change as we get smarter and how those tasks interrelate to each other where here's a task that we can't really start until this task up here ends and I in my mind that creates a great visual for us okay well we can whether it's time-based or not I can discuss that at the next meeting put it as an agenda item we do kind of did that we said we're going to do the fact-finding that's it right now that's it not an end but that's what we're concentrating on no solutions no suggestions nothing just fact-finding that was phase one phase two we really didn't say exactly what that was going to be okay we're gonna lead into that

  42. this is the interim report now if you in a future meeting we put it on an agenda next meeting if you want to propose a timeline that's certainly your prerogative we could do that but we don't have one right now even if you don't have time one of the neat things about Microsoft Project is that you can list activities and how activities interact with other activities so whether or not you actually put dates on it is not as relevant as as understanding what the tasks are which may change as we get smarter and how those tasks interrelate to each other where here's a task that we can't really start until this task up here ends and I in my mind that creates a great visual for us okay well we can whether it's time-based or not I can discuss that at the next meeting put it as an agenda item we do kind of did that we said we're going to do the fact-finding that's it right now that's it not an end but that's what we're concentrating on no solutions no suggestions nothing just fact-finding that was phase one phase two we really didn't say exactly what that was going to be okay we're gonna lead into that get there. So at the output of phase, the work product of the output of phase one is to define phases two, three, and four? That's this. The outcome of phase one is what you see in front of you. That's it. That presentation. Okay. Then we'll meet, then we'll continue from there. What do we do with that information? That's the problem. That's the thing. Yeah. And we never, we haven't discussed that yet because in my mind, I wanted to get it orderly, get the facts first. Yeah. But important thing is kind of brings up a question. What is our commitment? How long are we going to be committed to doing this? You know, so it's kind of nice to discuss and know that it is not perpetual. It is, you know, finite end. Right. Okay. So why don't we do that at the next meet? That's a lot on the next meeting, actually, but it's not really. We can Fred give us a demonstration of that Microsoft project? Yeah. Yeah. So we can have a good visual of it. Mm-hmm. We'd be happy to. Yeah. So the next meeting, we'll put that on the agenda. Yeah. We'll try to work through that and start. We can start the discussion. Just like you're saying that, you know, we don't want this to be infinite. At the same token, our, our citizens want to see a result. Yeah. For sure. And this is not a result. Nope.

  43. get there. So at the output of phase, the work product of the output of phase one is to define phases two, three, and four? That's this. The outcome of phase one is what you see in front of you. That's it. That presentation. Okay. Then we'll meet, then we'll continue from there. What do we do with that information? That's the problem. That's the thing. Yeah. And we never, we haven't discussed that yet because in my mind, I wanted to get it orderly, get the facts first. Yeah. But important thing is kind of brings up a question. What is our commitment? How long are we going to be committed to doing this? You know, so it's kind of nice to discuss and know that it is not perpetual. It is, you know, finite end. Right. Okay. So why don't we do that at the next meet? That's a lot on the next meeting, actually, but it's not really. We can Fred give us a demonstration of that Microsoft project? Yeah. Yeah. So we can have a good visual of it. Mm-hmm. We'd be happy to. Yeah. So the next meeting, we'll put that on the agenda. Yeah. We'll try to work through that and start. We can start the discussion. Just like you're saying that, you know, we don't want this to be infinite. At the same token, our, our citizens want to see a result. Yeah. For sure. And this is not a result. Nope. This is a fact-finding. Yes. We said that from the very beginning. Yeah. Every meeting, we say that. Yeah. That's what we're doing. But what the citizens want is when are you going to fix the road? and what's causing the road damage to occur and at some point we have we have to get well you know what the other thing is it's not up to us to decide when we're gonna fix or we're only going to say to the Board of Trustees this is what we need to do here the suggestions yeah there it is yeah it's not up to us to do it no I understand so I understand okay so we can continue that discussion that's phase two that's phase two or three or four whatever you say it is all right so next meeting will really finalize this we'll get it oh the report back from the state what they've decided to do we'll find to make sure every all the presentations are in order and then on the 13th we'll give it we'll give it our best shot great okay I think that's it everyone is anything else I move to adjourn what I second oh okay good thank you everyone guys I'll see you good meeting thank you guys