the-compact
Road Advisory Committee Thursday, September 4, 2025 · 61 min

Bloomfield Township Road Advisory Committee Meeting on September 3, 2025

Summary

The Bloomfield Township City Council discussed road conditions, financing, and funding for local roads, including the deployment of funds for road maintenance and capital expenditures, and the potential impact of new state plans.

  • The Road Advisory Committee discussed its mission and goals for improving local road conditions in Bloomfield Township.
  • The city council discussed the deployment of funds for road maintenance and capital expenditures.
  • The city council discussed funding for the road fund and the township's outstanding road SADs debt.
  • The city council discussed the township's budget and debt, including road SADs and personnel costs.
  • The county may receive an additional $141 million if the proposed three billion dollar road funding bill passes.

AI-generated from the meeting transcript. Check the video for anything load-bearing.

Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Let's turn your microphone on and everybody else down there. Everybody's off. Is it on? Okay. All right. I hope everybody, well anybody who's listening or watching on the line can see this. Just in case somebody has not been with us before, let me just tell you what we are. The Road Advisory Committee is a nine-member committee. Well now it's eight. It's a nine-member committee. The Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees formed this back, I guess in March or something, to look into, to seek solutions to local road conditions throughout the township, except for the township supervisor, Mr. McCready. We're all just unpaid volunteers, township residents, and we come from all parts of the township. All of us on this committee have been leaders in one area or another, whether it's township, homeowners associations, or other roles throughout the area. The mission is up on the board there now. Our mission statement,

  2. Thank you. Let's turn your microphone on and everybody else down there. Everybody's off. Is it on? Okay. All right. I hope everybody, well anybody who's listening or watching on the line can see this. Just in case somebody has not been with us before, let me just tell you what we are. The Road Advisory Committee is a nine-member committee. Well now it's eight. It's a nine-member committee. The Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees formed this back, I guess in March or something, to look into, to seek solutions to local road conditions throughout the township, except for the township supervisor, Mr. McCready. We're all just unpaid volunteers, township residents, and we come from all parts of the township. All of us on this committee have been leaders in one area or another, whether it's township, homeowners associations, or other roles throughout the area. The mission is up on the board there now. Our mission statement, we approved that the very first meeting. It's to seek alternative solutions to getting subdivision local roads repaired at a reasonable cost and to get more control over the roads. The mission statement is broad enough to allow for a blank sheet of paper approach, yet narrow enough to stay focused on the goals that we set for ourselves. We want to hear from as many people as possible. We wish more people would come to these meetings and give us your thoughts. thoughts, but send us emails or letters, and we certainly will enter that into the next meeting. Okay, so the first order of business is the minutes, sorry, first of all, it's attendance, which is not up, but we have a quorum, and so we can have a meeting. We have minutes from August 6th, that was the last time we met, and have you all read there any corrections or any? So move the approval. Moved. Support. Move and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. All right. Just so you know, this is a work session today. We'll start it off with an outline that we have, but what we want to do today is just be very informal, just we'll go one down each one and present what you have.

  3. roles throughout the area. The mission is up on the board there now. Our mission statement, we approved that the very first meeting. It's to seek alternative solutions to getting subdivision local roads repaired at a reasonable cost and to get more control over the roads. The mission statement is broad enough to allow for a blank sheet of paper approach, yet narrow enough to stay focused on the goals that we set for ourselves. We want to hear from as many people as possible. We wish more people would come to these meetings and give us your thoughts. thoughts, but send us emails or letters, and we certainly will enter that into the next meeting. Okay, so the first order of business is the minutes, sorry, first of all, it's attendance, which is not up, but we have a quorum, and so we can have a meeting. We have minutes from August 6th, that was the last time we met, and have you all read there any corrections or any? So move the approval. Moved. Support. Move and support. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay. All right. Just so you know, this is a work session today. We'll start it off with an outline that we have, but what we want to do today is just be very informal, just we'll go one down each one and present what you have. If you have something, we'll talk about it, we'll just discuss it. Very informal, just open for discussion, that's it, from the group. So first, the list that we have, we created this worksheet. We have current situation, that's what we're looking at right now. Where are we now? What have we found out to this point? We're just about finished, I think, with our information gathering phase. And so that's what we want to report to the Board of Trustees sometime, I guess, late September, early October. And so that's what we're working on right now. So we have four different areas. First is the current situation in the township, current situation in the county. county and state level the current situation in the financing in a current situation deficiencies township roads and financing and some of that will include it will it will include oh sorry oh that's it never mind no that's not that's not it some of it will include legislative things that we work bit that's baked into some of the some of these as well so that's what we'll be talking about today so without anybody anybody want to anything to that anything so

  4. be very informal, just we'll go one down each one and present what you have. If you have something, we'll talk about it, we'll just discuss it. Very informal, just open for discussion, that's it, from the group. So first, the list that we have, we created this worksheet. We have current situation, that's what we're looking at right now. Where are we now? What have we found out to this point? We're just about finished, I think, with our information gathering phase. And so that's what we want to report to the Board of Trustees sometime, I guess, late September, early October. And so that's what we're working on right now. So we have four different areas. First is the current situation in the township, current situation in the county. county and state level the current situation in the financing in a current situation deficiencies township roads and financing and some of that will include it will it will include oh sorry oh that's it never mind no that's not that's not it some of it will include legislative things that we work bit that's baked into some of the some of these as well so that's what we'll be talking about today so without anybody anybody want to anything to that anything so Jeff yeah if I can Jason Tice is here our finance director and he you put together a recap of the numbers of our financing that we do for roads okay and since he's here can we start with that sure with that absolutely you can go back to his yeah business of course okay thank you this is gonna be a very informal meeting so yeah right on you want to go get his hair cut today but I find enough wait another day is your microphone on yeah I figured it perfect supervisor shared with me item number four I believe in your outline current situation on financing so I kind of summarized those ABC and D so in in your state road fund sources amounts collected very simple response on that Bloomfield does not receive any state fundings that is specifically earmarked or specified for roads on item B county county road fund sources amounts collected and deployment of those funds so as you've heard probably multiple times in your

  5. about today so without anybody anybody want to anything to that anything so Jeff yeah if I can Jason Tice is here our finance director and he you put together a recap of the numbers of our financing that we do for roads okay and since he's here can we start with that sure with that absolutely you can go back to his yeah business of course okay thank you this is gonna be a very informal meeting so yeah right on you want to go get his hair cut today but I find enough wait another day is your microphone on yeah I figured it perfect supervisor shared with me item number four I believe in your outline current situation on financing so I kind of summarized those ABC and D so in in your state road fund sources amounts collected very simple response on that Bloomfield does not receive any state fundings that is specifically earmarked or specified for roads on item B county county road fund sources amounts collected and deployment of those funds so as you've heard probably multiple times in your meetings we do have a agreement with the Road Commission they provide us reimbursement we actually have to show them invoices and such and they they reimburse us per a annual contract so that amount for fiscal year 2025 was eight hundred and ten thousand one hundred sixty five dollars and historically at least in the last few years the Road Commission ends up increasing that amount by about two percent a year so we would expect in 26 and then 27 2% on on those numbers on your section C Township Road funds sources and deployment of those the road millage in fiscal year 2025 was three million four hundred and three thousand fourteen dollars collected the next largest funding source for our road fund is a transfer in from the general fund that is going to jump up and down every year based on what is net what is the road

  6. deployment of those funds so as you've heard probably multiple times in your meetings we do have a agreement with the Road Commission they provide us reimbursement we actually have to show them invoices and such and they they reimburse us per a annual contract so that amount for fiscal year 2025 was eight hundred and ten thousand one hundred sixty five dollars and historically at least in the last few years the Road Commission ends up increasing that amount by about two percent a year so we would expect in 26 and then 27 2% on on those numbers on your section C Township Road funds sources and deployment of those the road millage in fiscal year 2025 was three million four hundred and three thousand fourteen dollars collected the next largest funding source for our road fund is a transfer in from the general fund that is going to jump up and down every year based on what is net what is the road fund need and does the general fund have the availability to give it to them because general fund also helps support public safety so typically those transfers are one of the last things we figure out when we're in our budgeting process is when you pay for everything that needs to be paid for and you start getting into the elective things and and paving contractors is an elective item that transfer into the road fund can get reduced so for example in 2021 we were able to support the road fund with 750 000 2023 it was only 300 000 if you look at what we're budgeted to give the road fund in 26 it's 2.7 million so it really does bounce up and down part of that 2.7 million is this year we have two major uh plow truck capital expenditures that two of them combined is a million dollars so the next item uh we already well we already talked about is the road commission funding of 810 000. on the deployment side as examples for fiscal year 25

  7. fund need and does the general fund have the availability to give it to them because general fund also helps support public safety so typically those transfers are one of the last things we figure out when we're in our budgeting process is when you pay for everything that needs to be paid for and you start getting into the elective things and and paving contractors is an elective item that transfer into the road fund can get reduced so for example in 2021 we were able to support the road fund with 750 000 2023 it was only 300 000 if you look at what we're budgeted to give the road fund in 26 it's 2.7 million so it really does bounce up and down part of that 2.7 million is this year we have two major uh plow truck capital expenditures that two of them combined is a million dollars so the next item uh we already well we already talked about is the road commission funding of 810 000. on the deployment side as examples for fiscal year 25 um we funded one and a half million of contracted paving 200 000 of patching which is not contract that's our own staff going out they buy the materials and do the patch they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out We laid down $200,000 of salt on the local roads. And then one of our biggest expenses is then the personnel and retiree costs, and that's $2.4 million. On your last section, there was discussion or wanting more information on the township role of SADs and the current outstanding balance. So the SADs that run through the township allows the parcel owners to pay it over 15 years. If you go through the road commission, it's 10 years they have to pay it off. And then when I looked as of August last month, the township has 23 road SADs outstanding. Related debt on those SADs is $37 million. And that is 40% of the township's direct debt that is outstanding. So almost half of our debt is related to these road SADs.

  8. on the deployment side as examples for fiscal year 25 um we funded one and a half million of contracted paving 200 000 of patching which is not contract that's our own staff going out they buy the materials and do the patch they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out they're going out We laid down $200,000 of salt on the local roads. And then one of our biggest expenses is then the personnel and retiree costs, and that's $2.4 million. On your last section, there was discussion or wanting more information on the township role of SADs and the current outstanding balance. So the SADs that run through the township allows the parcel owners to pay it over 15 years. If you go through the road commission, it's 10 years they have to pay it off. And then when I looked as of August last month, the township has 23 road SADs outstanding. Related debt on those SADs is $37 million. And that is 40% of the township's direct debt that is outstanding. So almost half of our debt is related to these road SADs. So what I read through that section of the outline, those are the things I came up with. I hope that is kind of what you're looking for. But if not, I'm always available for questions too. I don't mean to put you on the spot. So if you don't, you know, if you don't know it. You talked about the road commission typically increases money to the township by 2%. Yep. Yep. Yep. Thank you. the question is do you know how much the cost of doing the work increases i would assume it's not two percent i would agree with that yeah i mean if you said six or seven i wouldn't blink but i mean so we're going backwards we're because they're only giving us two percent and the cost of doing business increases our money goes doesn't go as far correct year to year yeah that's especially these last few years with just just normal inflation over five years it's been pretty okay i just you don't have a concrete number though i mean do you don't know the cost of the cost of materials and labor no i i would expect i would expect it to be different based on so i

  9. So almost half of our debt is related to these road SADs. So what I read through that section of the outline, those are the things I came up with. I hope that is kind of what you're looking for. But if not, I'm always available for questions too. I don't mean to put you on the spot. So if you don't, you know, if you don't know it. You talked about the road commission typically increases money to the township by 2%. Yep. Yep. Yep. Thank you. the question is do you know how much the cost of doing the work increases i would assume it's not two percent i would agree with that yeah i mean if you said six or seven i wouldn't blink but i mean so we're going backwards we're because they're only giving us two percent and the cost of doing business increases our money goes doesn't go as far correct year to year yeah that's especially these last few years with just just normal inflation over five years it's been pretty okay i just you don't have a concrete number though i mean do you don't know the cost of the cost of materials and labor no i i would expect i would expect it to be different based on so i would think the contract what the contractors are going to cost us for our charges for their paving will be a different increase than say the salts that we're buying or the pothole patching versus our labor which you know that one may be actually one of the lowest because you know it's only like a two two and a half percent increase to labor okay um but yeah you're absolutely right and just my guess is that the two percent is is probably there if they're going to get an increase on their act 51 money from from the state or federal government um it's probably like it's probably around the same number one or two percent they're not so then i think they're just gonna well we're getting two percent will get to pass along yeah yeah okay thank you when you're going through the use of funds i didn't write it down you said 1.5 million what's that for contracted paving was 1.5 okay and um again that's that's a that gets us back to uh pre pre-covid pre-recession numbers of of what we would typically spend on contracted paving but again if we if we were to head into another

  10. cost of materials and labor no i i would expect i would expect it to be different based on so i would think the contract what the contractors are going to cost us for our charges for their paving will be a different increase than say the salts that we're buying or the pothole patching versus our labor which you know that one may be actually one of the lowest because you know it's only like a two two and a half percent increase to labor okay um but yeah you're absolutely right and just my guess is that the two percent is is probably there if they're going to get an increase on their act 51 money from from the state or federal government um it's probably like it's probably around the same number one or two percent they're not so then i think they're just gonna well we're getting two percent will get to pass along yeah yeah okay thank you when you're going through the use of funds i didn't write it down you said 1.5 million what's that for contracted paving was 1.5 okay and um again that's that's a that gets us back to uh pre pre-covid pre-recession numbers of of what we would typically spend on contracted paving but again if we if we were to head into another financial crisis or some issues that'd be one of the things we'd have to consider can we afford 1.5 do we have to reduce it to one to a half a million um it's a bay line item that that eats up a lot of the funding as you can see when you talked about the budget uh you said you know 3.4 is the millage 2.7 is a general fund because of equipment for 26 and 810 from uh accounting so that's a 6.9 budget for what you would have in 26. so i guess you'd have another line item called capital equipment because if you add up to two four and one and a half and the 200 200 you don't get to 69. yeah so those those weren't it wasn't all inclusive those were the the biggest pieces of it um i believe the the fiscal year 26 road budget is the highest it's ever been and it's about seven and a half million i believe this could you give us a source and use schedule for 26. Yeah, like the actual budget that shows. Yeah, here's your source of funds and here's your uses of funds for our report. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it would really help us if you could document that so that we have it codified per Jeff's request because it's great information.

  11. we would typically spend on contracted paving but again if we if we were to head into another financial crisis or some issues that'd be one of the things we'd have to consider can we afford 1.5 do we have to reduce it to one to a half a million um it's a bay line item that that eats up a lot of the funding as you can see when you talked about the budget uh you said you know 3.4 is the millage 2.7 is a general fund because of equipment for 26 and 810 from uh accounting so that's a 6.9 budget for what you would have in 26. so i guess you'd have another line item called capital equipment because if you add up to two four and one and a half and the 200 200 you don't get to 69. yeah so those those weren't it wasn't all inclusive those were the the biggest pieces of it um i believe the the fiscal year 26 road budget is the highest it's ever been and it's about seven and a half million i believe this could you give us a source and use schedule for 26. Yeah, like the actual budget that shows. Yeah, here's your source of funds and here's your uses of funds for our report. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it would really help us if you could document that so that we have it codified per Jeff's request because it's great information. Thank you for coming and sharing, but it's hard for us to visualize it. Absolutely. Because we want it to balance out. And I know you have equipment at different times, so it can be a kind of a one-off. I have a couple of questions. Yeah, go for it. You mentioned legacy cost, two or three people who are going to get pension. Is that going to, once they retire, would that help the township road department budget? Because new people don't get all those benefits, right? New people do not. Yeah, depending on which, yeah. The pension was closed in 2005, retire healthcare in 2011. So yeah, with each retirement, we're transitioning. But I think you're, I think the answer is no. And it's not going to give us a immediate reduction in the budget because we're still paying for all of those legacy costs. We're, we're still playing catch up. So.

  12. per Jeff's request because it's great information. Thank you for coming and sharing, but it's hard for us to visualize it. Absolutely. Because we want it to balance out. And I know you have equipment at different times, so it can be a kind of a one-off. I have a couple of questions. Yeah, go for it. You mentioned legacy cost, two or three people who are going to get pension. Is that going to, once they retire, would that help the township road department budget? Because new people don't get all those benefits, right? New people do not. Yeah, depending on which, yeah. The pension was closed in 2005, retire healthcare in 2011. So yeah, with each retirement, we're transitioning. But I think you're, I think the answer is no. And it's not going to give us a immediate reduction in the budget because we're still paying for all of those legacy costs. We're, we're still playing catch up. So. while these people are still working actively that have the benefits, we're having to make annual contributions based on the actuaries' reports. And then they're gonna, once they're off as an active employee on to retirement, they're then gonna be drawing on those benefits and so we're still gonna be paying for those as we go. So it's not like as soon as they transition to retirement, we get a reprieve or a relief on the costs. We're gonna be paying for those still for a number of decades. So in a short term, it's not gonna make any difference. That's what you're saying. No, and we're actually, it's almost the opposite because each of the new employees you're bringing on with these defined contribution plans, you can't put off any of their costs and contribution. You're 100% funding it as they're becoming active. So you're kind of getting hit twice, right? Double dose right now. You have the new ones you have to pay for and you're still playing catch up on the old defined benefit plans for all the other ones. Okay, the second question, you may or may not have an answer right now. We are, from the day one, we've been quoting village SAD as our benchmark kind of thing.

  13. while these people are still working actively that have the benefits, we're having to make annual contributions based on the actuaries' reports. And then they're gonna, once they're off as an active employee on to retirement, they're then gonna be drawing on those benefits and so we're still gonna be paying for those as we go. So it's not like as soon as they transition to retirement, we get a reprieve or a relief on the costs. We're gonna be paying for those still for a number of decades. So in a short term, it's not gonna make any difference. That's what you're saying. No, and we're actually, it's almost the opposite because each of the new employees you're bringing on with these defined contribution plans, you can't put off any of their costs and contribution. You're 100% funding it as they're becoming active. So you're kind of getting hit twice, right? Double dose right now. You have the new ones you have to pay for and you're still playing catch up on the old defined benefit plans for all the other ones. Okay, the second question, you may or may not have an answer right now. We are, from the day one, we've been quoting village SAD as our benchmark kind of thing. I was wondering, do we have like data on last three to five SADs in the township that what kind of cost people had to pay so that... I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. don't just do in my opinion just do you know only one example if an average of five SADs or three SADs or something that that gives us a or the trustees a good feel for you know how expensive or what's a variable right between 60,000 and is it like a Kirkway Road was you know there was an SAD just last year I wonder what was the cost per homeowner in that particular and it's gonna vary so maybe in my opinion to provide a range of SADs that our homeowners are paying within last two to five years yeah we have we have all that data yeah we can easily pull that together that there will it'll be hard to decipher all the variables because just just in supply and contractor costs alone even if

  14. we've been quoting village SAD as our benchmark kind of thing. I was wondering, do we have like data on last three to five SADs in the township that what kind of cost people had to pay so that... I don't know. Thank you. Thank you. don't just do in my opinion just do you know only one example if an average of five SADs or three SADs or something that that gives us a or the trustees a good feel for you know how expensive or what's a variable right between 60,000 and is it like a Kirkway Road was you know there was an SAD just last year I wonder what was the cost per homeowner in that particular and it's gonna vary so maybe in my opinion to provide a range of SADs that our homeowners are paying within last two to five years yeah we have we have all that data yeah we can easily pull that together that there will it'll be hard to decipher all the variables because just just in supply and contractor costs alone even if everything else was the same you would see a drastic increase over the last five years but then on top of it you have the different size of the parcels and and everything that goes into the assessing and Treasury evaluation of those and but I've been here for as long as as they've been doing the SADs so 23 of them now we started with SAD I think in Knob Hill SAD 404 or 405 and now we're up in at four 29 those though my memory is those might have been around 15 they were less than 20 grand the parcel I believe right now you're at close to 60 I'm a nob Hill and it was less than 20 okay but that was 13 years ago and we went to 2011 or 12 or something that will get the year okay seven years ago our subdivision went through the process of a total rebuild and it came to 15,000 that was seven eight years ago now eight years ago was 15,000 and it was well anyway so that's what it

  15. variables because just just in supply and contractor costs alone even if everything else was the same you would see a drastic increase over the last five years but then on top of it you have the different size of the parcels and and everything that goes into the assessing and Treasury evaluation of those and but I've been here for as long as as they've been doing the SADs so 23 of them now we started with SAD I think in Knob Hill SAD 404 or 405 and now we're up in at four 29 those though my memory is those might have been around 15 they were less than 20 grand the parcel I believe right now you're at close to 60 I'm a nob Hill and it was less than 20 okay but that was 13 years ago and we went to 2011 or 12 or something that will get the year okay seven years ago our subdivision went through the process of a total rebuild and it came to 15,000 that was seven eight years ago now eight years ago was 15,000 and it was well anyway so that's what it was then and now it's probably in the 40s so I don't know whether all those old SADs from way back I don't know if that is really relevant because it was done last year yeah like within last two years here that gives a range you know so it doesn't look like we are just focusing on just one something might help us is I noticed in the simcog report mr. Shostak indicated it was 55,000 so that's another you know another item we could do but that's the base number and if it's financed you have to it's on top of on top of 68,000 so we've got something and if you look at the debt that the township has taken on you know this is going to be reflected as we work with Standard & Poor's that we have to maybe get out of doing SADs and not taking on any more debt at a certain point and it has to go to the county. One of the problems going to the county number one is only 10 years but the other thing is that they they have an interest rate that's much higher. It is. Six percent whether no matter what no matter what it what the market is the

  16. years ago now eight years ago was 15,000 and it was well anyway so that's what it was then and now it's probably in the 40s so I don't know whether all those old SADs from way back I don't know if that is really relevant because it was done last year yeah like within last two years here that gives a range you know so it doesn't look like we are just focusing on just one something might help us is I noticed in the simcog report mr. Shostak indicated it was 55,000 so that's another you know another item we could do but that's the base number and if it's financed you have to it's on top of on top of 68,000 so we've got something and if you look at the debt that the township has taken on you know this is going to be reflected as we work with Standard & Poor's that we have to maybe get out of doing SADs and not taking on any more debt at a certain point and it has to go to the county. One of the problems going to the county number one is only 10 years but the other thing is that they they have an interest rate that's much higher. It is. Six percent whether no matter what no matter what it what the market is the township goes by the mark one percent of the market I believe it is correct and so it's two percent three percent you know but but the county is always six percent and that's that could be good if we get nine percent interest market but it's how much debt are we going to take out for this in the township and then we don't own our roads. I have I just want to ask you this if you had an opportunity to really digest the new plan that's been coming out of Lansing for road funding I don't think it's not been approved yet I don't think it's gone through but it's the plan that's out there and what if you have do you have any opinion on how that will affect the amount of money we will get I I have not I try to while I follow it I try not to spend too much time on it until it's final just just learning from past experience of how many times it changes and goes back and forth and but um yeah i'm watching that to see okay by the day yeah i'm just curious if you have any thoughts that's all that's okay october one we'll get a right final number by october one they're supposed to pass the budget yeah well we'll see okay anybody else

  17. Six percent whether no matter what no matter what it what the market is the township goes by the mark one percent of the market I believe it is correct and so it's two percent three percent you know but but the county is always six percent and that's that could be good if we get nine percent interest market but it's how much debt are we going to take out for this in the township and then we don't own our roads. I have I just want to ask you this if you had an opportunity to really digest the new plan that's been coming out of Lansing for road funding I don't think it's not been approved yet I don't think it's gone through but it's the plan that's out there and what if you have do you have any opinion on how that will affect the amount of money we will get I I have not I try to while I follow it I try not to spend too much time on it until it's final just just learning from past experience of how many times it changes and goes back and forth and but um yeah i'm watching that to see okay by the day yeah i'm just curious if you have any thoughts that's all that's okay october one we'll get a right final number by october one they're supposed to pass the budget yeah well we'll see okay anybody else questions comments okay thank you so much i appreciate that all that information i look forward to getting we put it in the report thanks that's great yeah send us that source and use that'll be helpful all right so then let's go back to the beginning we'll go back to the current situation township and we do have something here um jay do you want to comment on that you want to talk about that i'll talk about it yeah that's fine all right so basically this the piece that i have here is broken into three sections uh the first section is with regards to the rating system so that the trustees understand when we talk about road conditions what they're based on i don't know if you want me to just read this stuff to you sure yes all right condition of all the roads in oakland county are evaluated periodically and i left that periodically even though our presenters said it was every three years but i found stuff under michigan department transportation that said it was less than every three years so for townships that's correct for the others it's three years but we were we were the poor stepchild okay all right the pavement service event

  18. number by october one they're supposed to pass the budget yeah well we'll see okay anybody else questions comments okay thank you so much i appreciate that all that information i look forward to getting we put it in the report thanks that's great yeah send us that source and use that'll be helpful all right so then let's go back to the beginning we'll go back to the current situation township and we do have something here um jay do you want to comment on that you want to talk about that i'll talk about it yeah that's fine all right so basically this the piece that i have here is broken into three sections uh the first section is with regards to the rating system so that the trustees understand when we talk about road conditions what they're based on i don't know if you want me to just read this stuff to you sure yes all right condition of all the roads in oakland county are evaluated periodically and i left that periodically even though our presenters said it was every three years but i found stuff under michigan department transportation that said it was less than every three years so for townships that's correct for the others it's three years but we were we were the poor stepchild okay all right the pavement service event Evaluation and rating PACER system is used to rate the roads the Transportation Asset Management Council TAMC of Michigan Adopted the PACER system for its statewide assessment of the pavement conditions Each roadway is rated on a score of one to ten with ten being new construction and one being a failing condition Following table summarizes the ranking system. So basically if you look at the table It's rated one to ten. It gives you what the descriptions are What the TAMC calls good fair or poor and based on what the construct of the roadways are made out of either Ashfold or concrete what the recommended treatment would be to resolve it if it needs some work The condition of major highways the u.s. Highways such as u.s. 12 For example Michigan Avenue the interstate roads such as I 75 in the Michigan roads such as m24 That is telegraph is the responsibility of the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT The condition of main roads in Oakland County is a responsibility of the Road Commission of Oakland County RCOC It is partially funded by federal aid However, the condition of subdivision streets is also the responsibility of the RCOC

  19. Evaluation and rating PACER system is used to rate the roads the Transportation Asset Management Council TAMC of Michigan Adopted the PACER system for its statewide assessment of the pavement conditions Each roadway is rated on a score of one to ten with ten being new construction and one being a failing condition Following table summarizes the ranking system. So basically if you look at the table It's rated one to ten. It gives you what the descriptions are What the TAMC calls good fair or poor and based on what the construct of the roadways are made out of either Ashfold or concrete what the recommended treatment would be to resolve it if it needs some work The condition of major highways the u.s. Highways such as u.s. 12 For example Michigan Avenue the interstate roads such as I 75 in the Michigan roads such as m24 That is telegraph is the responsibility of the Michigan Department of Transportation MDOT The condition of main roads in Oakland County is a responsibility of the Road Commission of Oakland County RCOC It is partially funded by federal aid However, the condition of subdivision streets is also the responsibility of the RCOC But there is no federal aid allocated to these streets Therefore improvements to subdivision streets necessitates the approval of a special assessment district sad which we all property owners adjacent to a proposed road service replacement project to agree to assess themselves the cost of replacement typically for fifty thousand to sixty thousand dollars per lot at this time the latest data available on the concurrent road conditions in Bloomfield Township are shown on the following two pages the first is that of the main roads for which the county receives federal aid and the second is that of subdivision streets for which the county receives no federal aid those are the two handouts that we had been presented with before and I'll get cleaner copies of those but if you notice on the one that has federal aid as I say at the bottom the condition of the roads or federal aid is available is mostly in fair to good condition that being the green and the yellows on the ones where there are no federal aid so that being the subdivision streets the conditions of the roads where federal aid is not available is mostly rated as poor lastly Bloomfield Township is the only township in the state of Michigan to

  20. However, the condition of subdivision streets is also the responsibility of the RCOC But there is no federal aid allocated to these streets Therefore improvements to subdivision streets necessitates the approval of a special assessment district sad which we all property owners adjacent to a proposed road service replacement project to agree to assess themselves the cost of replacement typically for fifty thousand to sixty thousand dollars per lot at this time the latest data available on the concurrent road conditions in Bloomfield Township are shown on the following two pages the first is that of the main roads for which the county receives federal aid and the second is that of subdivision streets for which the county receives no federal aid those are the two handouts that we had been presented with before and I'll get cleaner copies of those but if you notice on the one that has federal aid as I say at the bottom the condition of the roads or federal aid is available is mostly in fair to good condition that being the green and the yellows on the ones where there are no federal aid so that being the subdivision streets the conditions of the roads where federal aid is not available is mostly rated as poor lastly Bloomfield Township is the only township in the state of Michigan to have its own road division department they maintain 176 miles of subdivision streets and 37 miles of unpaved gravel roads while they provide the service of asphalt paving patching they are not responsible for nor have the budget to provide repaving services at this time therefore repaving or replacement of subdivision streets remain the responsibility of road commission of Oakland County you know I think that These two graphs, two charts that you've supplied here, are two of the most important, in my opinion. The picture tells a thousand orders. Two of the most important things to show not only the Board of Trustees when we make the report, but the public to see it. Correct. Where when it's done, when it's not done by the county, when it's not done simply by the county, it's pretty good. When it's just a county, it's awful. And I think people need to see this, and I like that this is really good. This map, I don't know if we can get it, by the time we do our presentation, you've brought this up before also, that it's really not 100% accurate because the Bloomfield Township is being done and it's better. But still in all, this shows, this is indicative of how the system is set, it's set so we fail.

  21. lastly Bloomfield Township is the only township in the state of Michigan to have its own road division department they maintain 176 miles of subdivision streets and 37 miles of unpaved gravel roads while they provide the service of asphalt paving patching they are not responsible for nor have the budget to provide repaving services at this time therefore repaving or replacement of subdivision streets remain the responsibility of road commission of Oakland County you know I think that These two graphs, two charts that you've supplied here, are two of the most important, in my opinion. The picture tells a thousand orders. Two of the most important things to show not only the Board of Trustees when we make the report, but the public to see it. Correct. Where when it's done, when it's not done by the county, when it's not done simply by the county, it's pretty good. When it's just a county, it's awful. And I think people need to see this, and I like that this is really good. This map, I don't know if we can get it, by the time we do our presentation, you've brought this up before also, that it's really not 100% accurate because the Bloomfield Township is being done and it's better. But still in all, this shows, this is indicative of how the system is set, it's set so we fail. And it's not just Bloomfield Township. When I was doing my research, I was looking at statewide maps and it's everywhere. Well, of course, that's true, but we're concerned. We're focused on ours, sure. And the system is set up so that we are guaranteed to fail, but we can't ever, unless we pay an exorbitant amount of money. It won't work. It won't work. So I think these two, when I do this, this is going to be front and center, these two charts right here. I think that's great. All right. One thing, I see this document, is the only township or there's another township in this? state has a growth department. I thought there was one. Yeah, your report said there was a second one. Yes. We weren't sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true. There is a new one that just started. Okay. I pulled it off the presentation. Right. So, okay. Yeah. We weren't sure. Hey, one or two, one or two in the entire state. It's still the same. Yeah. Right. Like 1800 townships. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Any other questions? Comments? All right. So, should we, is this complete enough, this report? Should we add to, do we need to add to it for our report to the board? Or is this pretty much what we found? I think it is. Right? I think if you look at the PACER ratings. Yeah. I got to look at the numbers. Yeah. Especially now a bill that's now yellow. Yeah, totally.

  22. But still in all, this shows, this is indicative of how the system is set, it's set so we fail. And it's not just Bloomfield Township. When I was doing my research, I was looking at statewide maps and it's everywhere. Well, of course, that's true, but we're concerned. We're focused on ours, sure. And the system is set up so that we are guaranteed to fail, but we can't ever, unless we pay an exorbitant amount of money. It won't work. It won't work. So I think these two, when I do this, this is going to be front and center, these two charts right here. I think that's great. All right. One thing, I see this document, is the only township or there's another township in this? state has a growth department. I thought there was one. Yeah, your report said there was a second one. Yes. We weren't sure. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's true. There is a new one that just started. Okay. I pulled it off the presentation. Right. So, okay. Yeah. We weren't sure. Hey, one or two, one or two in the entire state. It's still the same. Yeah. Right. Like 1800 townships. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Any other questions? Comments? All right. So, should we, is this complete enough, this report? Should we add to, do we need to add to it for our report to the board? Or is this pretty much what we found? I think it is. Right? I think if you look at the PACER ratings. Yeah. I got to look at the numbers. Yeah. Especially now a bill that's now yellow. Yeah, totally. 12 or 13 years old and we're already in the green areas are the new development, you know, that. Hopefully the village will be green. Yeah. Okay. All right. There's nothing else on this. And we can move on to the current situation, county and state. Mr. Dr. Azarian is not here, but Mindy. He did this great work and he's not here, so we. need to have him speak to this too okay but if you look at pages well they're not numbered but two and three there are some things you just spoke of that we can fill in to confirm some of his questions right so we can do some of this and for the next meeting good fill in nice questions okay and then it will

  23. All right. So, should we, is this complete enough, this report? Should we add to, do we need to add to it for our report to the board? Or is this pretty much what we found? I think it is. Right? I think if you look at the PACER ratings. Yeah. I got to look at the numbers. Yeah. Especially now a bill that's now yellow. Yeah, totally. 12 or 13 years old and we're already in the green areas are the new development, you know, that. Hopefully the village will be green. Yeah. Okay. All right. There's nothing else on this. And we can move on to the current situation, county and state. Mr. Dr. Azarian is not here, but Mindy. He did this great work and he's not here, so we. need to have him speak to this too okay but if you look at pages well they're not numbered but two and three there are some things you just spoke of that we can fill in to confirm some of his questions right so we can do some of this and for the next meeting good fill in nice questions okay and then it will be that much more complete but I think it's yeah okay that was good Tony of it but that's okay okay yeah we met about it before we finalized it but she did all the heavy lifting it's great all right then then if we're not when then we'll move on to I'm getting lost I get stuff all over the place here the next one then would be current situation financing oh well we just had we just heard that yeah okay and then current situation these township township roads and financing Jeff and Steve okay I'll start yeah what we did and you have a report that's on that screen also what we tried to do is pull together kind of what we're anticipating coming from the other subgroups and try to bring it to a kind of conclusion for the findings and also you'll see in our report there are yellow marks and that was the things that we need to have checked or confirmed by staff these are data points that we thought would be helpful to the

  24. this and for the next meeting good fill in nice questions okay and then it will be that much more complete but I think it's yeah okay that was good Tony of it but that's okay okay yeah we met about it before we finalized it but she did all the heavy lifting it's great all right then then if we're not when then we'll move on to I'm getting lost I get stuff all over the place here the next one then would be current situation financing oh well we just had we just heard that yeah okay and then current situation these township township roads and financing Jeff and Steve okay I'll start yeah what we did and you have a report that's on that screen also what we tried to do is pull together kind of what we're anticipating coming from the other subgroups and try to bring it to a kind of conclusion for the findings and also you'll see in our report there are yellow marks and that was the things that we need to have checked or confirmed by staff these are data points that we thought would be helpful to the our presentation so those are kind of things that we would need to be completed but if you look at the report the beginning is uh steve put together uh kind of a overview of public 50 50 public act 51 uh how it's worked how it's come together uh some of the you know some of the issues and how it goes so we you know people understand that that right now is the funding source for roads in the state of michigan pulling in the you know the funds from the various components which is primarily gas tax and the registration plus some other sources of funds so maybe we can pause there that was just kind of to put set the table from where we are currently with the source of funding so i think you did a great job and laid it out so if uh i don't know if anybody has any other comments questions changes i just have one question about the public act 51 is that will you talk about this you looking through the history of the public active where we are now and all that is that what you have here yes or do you still have more research to do no this is all this is all baked in there okay it was the big body was in 51 and we're still kind of following that

  25. our presentation so those are kind of things that we would need to be completed but if you look at the report the beginning is uh steve put together uh kind of a overview of public 50 50 public act 51 uh how it's worked how it's come together uh some of the you know some of the issues and how it goes so we you know people understand that that right now is the funding source for roads in the state of michigan pulling in the you know the funds from the various components which is primarily gas tax and the registration plus some other sources of funds so maybe we can pause there that was just kind of to put set the table from where we are currently with the source of funding so i think you did a great job and laid it out so if uh i don't know if anybody has any other comments questions changes i just have one question about the public act 51 is that will you talk about this you looking through the history of the public active where we are now and all that is that what you have here yes or do you still have more research to do no this is all this is all baked in there okay it was the big body was in 51 and we're still kind of following that that outline uh it was amended as recently as february of this year but it's just a minor tweak and so that's all kind of it didn't really impact in any significant way what we're talking about so then the next phase when we to get into the next phase of what we're doing after we report can are we going to be able to talk about the deficiencies of of this act and how it's outdated or um what we recommend should be done to the act or you know like donnie donnie steel said i mentioned you should be thrown away she said absolutely right so but we'll wait that is the next phase i thought that's what it was so i didn't we together didn't do that part okay we we tried to make sense draw the line um this was just a background as to where we are and it talked about township and then um what what is a well first pa 51 but then toward the bottom of this page we talked about what's the township and goes back to you know quite a while ago when townships were first established and what what are the responsibilities and duties and what what's the mandatory versus the permissive and so that's so we talked about pa 51 and then because we're different a township that was the lower half of

  26. is all baked in there okay it was the big body was in 51 and we're still kind of following that that outline uh it was amended as recently as february of this year but it's just a minor tweak and so that's all kind of it didn't really impact in any significant way what we're talking about so then the next phase when we to get into the next phase of what we're doing after we report can are we going to be able to talk about the deficiencies of of this act and how it's outdated or um what we recommend should be done to the act or you know like donnie donnie steel said i mentioned you should be thrown away she said absolutely right so but we'll wait that is the next phase i thought that's what it was so i didn't we together didn't do that part okay we we tried to make sense draw the line um this was just a background as to where we are and it talked about township and then um what what is a well first pa 51 but then toward the bottom of this page we talked about what's the township and goes back to you know quite a while ago when townships were first established and what what are the responsibilities and duties and what what's the mandatory versus the permissive and so that's so we talked about pa 51 and then because we're different a township that was the lower half of this page so we're only we're only interested in facts here no no editorial on what's good or bad or or anything about just the facts that's what jeff and i that's what i'm that's and then we drew the line don't go past that yeah we can but that's it i think that's late that's the next phase that's what we thought yeah okay all right all right um then what we also then went on and we of divided it into three pieces what we call the physical deficiencies which we're talking about financing deficiencies and then one we added was what i call the political situation in the environment we're operating in because at the end of the day this is a very political environment to us try to secure some additional funding under the physical deficiencies again fact-based uh just trying to state you know so everybody can we're at one level of knowledge we got a whole community that's not up to speed so part of the way we tried to organize this was to bring other people up to speed you know in a very efficient manner for them so it's not time consuming you don't have to read a lot but it gives them a way to kind of get the feel for what's going on and get the broad understanding so under the physical thing we just wanted to talk about

  27. so we talked about pa 51 and then because we're different a township that was the lower half of this page so we're only we're only interested in facts here no no editorial on what's good or bad or or anything about just the facts that's what jeff and i that's what i'm that's and then we drew the line don't go past that yeah we can but that's it i think that's late that's the next phase that's what we thought yeah okay all right all right um then what we also then went on and we of divided it into three pieces what we call the physical deficiencies which we're talking about financing deficiencies and then one we added was what i call the political situation in the environment we're operating in because at the end of the day this is a very political environment to us try to secure some additional funding under the physical deficiencies again fact-based uh just trying to state you know so everybody can we're at one level of knowledge we got a whole community that's not up to speed so part of the way we tried to organize this was to bring other people up to speed you know in a very efficient manner for them so it's not time consuming you don't have to read a lot but it gives them a way to kind of get the feel for what's going on and get the broad understanding so under the physical thing we just wanted to talk about you know the role that we all know about us the road commission you know what its you know position is and it's basically there's no money for local roads and but we know that but we need to establish that as information uh you know the idea of the pace report which we just talked about in the poor condition and then talk about the pace report in three categories for the township you know what percent is poor which percent is fair and what percent is good and we need to get somebody to convert that but essentially our estimate is based on the presentations at least 85 of our roads are poor which means under the definition of poor they need attention now not 10 years from now so that's what we're trying to establish with that point and then we talked about maybe adding in addition to that we'd have the pace report which we could have in section one of us bring it here some combination but also we thought it would be good to have some physical pictures of the roads it's one thing to have a description or a discussion but we want concrete examples which we think would help people again like we talked about the pace report pictures worth a thousand words and we think that would be helpful so that's what we wanted to do there

  28. and get the broad understanding so under the physical thing we just wanted to talk about you know the role that we all know about us the road commission you know what its you know position is and it's basically there's no money for local roads and but we know that but we need to establish that as information uh you know the idea of the pace report which we just talked about in the poor condition and then talk about the pace report in three categories for the township you know what percent is poor which percent is fair and what percent is good and we need to get somebody to convert that but essentially our estimate is based on the presentations at least 85 of our roads are poor which means under the definition of poor they need attention now not 10 years from now so that's what we're trying to establish with that point and then we talked about maybe adding in addition to that we'd have the pace report which we could have in section one of us bring it here some combination but also we thought it would be good to have some physical pictures of the roads it's one thing to have a description or a discussion but we want concrete examples which we think would help people again like we talked about the pace report pictures worth a thousand words and we think that would be helpful so that's what we wanted to do there um and then i you know the number h is we need to confirm that but it's the way we understand that there's nothing in the law that requires them the county road commission to maintain and replace our local roads it's discretionary not mandatory which we can talk about later on so that's kind of what we tried to highlight what we think of the key physical things that we want people to understand to as we move forward so everybody's got jeff you talked about what i call the allegating alligator ring of your road so you just have little small pieces of asphalt just kind of patchwork together that look like alligator skin and so we'd love to have a picture of that so that i mean that alone is massive well isn't going to be hard to it isn't hard to find well yeah right so every one of our subsidies wherever we live is you're going to find it so yeah i think what you what what is important here is what you just said is that people think about all these about all these predetermined ideas all over and this what we found here comes from the sources this is the truth this is what it really is I think that's very important to present and so that the people will say oh I thought we hit this I thought that I didn't know that but this is right from from the from the

  29. thousand words and we think that would be helpful so that's what we wanted to do there um and then i you know the number h is we need to confirm that but it's the way we understand that there's nothing in the law that requires them the county road commission to maintain and replace our local roads it's discretionary not mandatory which we can talk about later on so that's kind of what we tried to highlight what we think of the key physical things that we want people to understand to as we move forward so everybody's got jeff you talked about what i call the allegating alligator ring of your road so you just have little small pieces of asphalt just kind of patchwork together that look like alligator skin and so we'd love to have a picture of that so that i mean that alone is massive well isn't going to be hard to it isn't hard to find well yeah right so every one of our subsidies wherever we live is you're going to find it so yeah i think what you what what is important here is what you just said is that people think about all these about all these predetermined ideas all over and this what we found here comes from the sources this is the truth this is what it really is I think that's very important to present and so that the people will say oh I thought we hit this I thought that I didn't know that but this is right from from the from the people who are involved I think this is good should we should we have references where we got this should we at the very end of the report say where we got this information from we will in the report we're going to talk about that a good reference for wrote from the capital of the Road Commission from from legislative people would talk all the people are presented can township all the people are presented yeah some of the numbers you know got it from OCRC website or whatever so then you know we people know that it is it is factual and they can go back and check our number yeah I have one question on item H I'm a little I'm a little confused the township Broomfield Township has no millage capacity available is that which one last H H yeah correct oh I'm sorry we're at like 9.98 on our millage right now I believe yeah that makes out so in order to do a road millage

  30. I thought that I didn't know that but this is right from from the from the people who are involved I think this is good should we should we have references where we got this should we at the very end of the report say where we got this information from we will in the report we're going to talk about that a good reference for wrote from the capital of the Road Commission from from legislative people would talk all the people are presented can township all the people are presented yeah some of the numbers you know got it from OCRC website or whatever so then you know we people know that it is it is factual and they can go back and check our number yeah I have one question on item H I'm a little I'm a little confused the township Broomfield Township has no millage capacity available is that which one last H H yeah correct oh I'm sorry we're at like 9.98 on our millage right now I believe yeah that makes out so in order to do a road millage We don't have a capacity, or? We don't under state law. However, in 2030 and 2032, most of our bonds and millages will be complete. So we'll have a chance then to come back and recalculate. Now, we can go over our millage cap, but that has an effect on your S&P ratings and other areas, too. So, in a timeline-wise, you know, 26 to the next four years, you can't really go to voters for a millage, right? Because you already have maxed out to 10. Yeah, unless we were to somehow figure a way to redo some of the millages we have and turn them into SADs. Oh, I see. So, right, but either way, we're paying somehow, right? Right. You roll into safety path, or this, or that, into... Right. Okay. You prioritize. Prioritize, okay. Got you. Okay, go ahead. So the next one is the financing, which we started to get into, is that we thought it was important to break down where the money comes from 51 and how it gets allocated. The key here is townships get zero. So I just want that.

  31. We don't have a capacity, or? We don't under state law. However, in 2030 and 2032, most of our bonds and millages will be complete. So we'll have a chance then to come back and recalculate. Now, we can go over our millage cap, but that has an effect on your S&P ratings and other areas, too. So, in a timeline-wise, you know, 26 to the next four years, you can't really go to voters for a millage, right? Because you already have maxed out to 10. Yeah, unless we were to somehow figure a way to redo some of the millages we have and turn them into SADs. Oh, I see. So, right, but either way, we're paying somehow, right? Right. You roll into safety path, or this, or that, into... Right. Okay. You prioritize. Prioritize, okay. Got you. Okay, go ahead. So the next one is the financing, which we started to get into, is that we thought it was important to break down where the money comes from 51 and how it gets allocated. The key here is townships get zero. So I just want that. There are some points in here that I'm making, too. You know, it's not all factual, but factual, but with a little emphasis that we're trying to do. And we talked about Act 51, you know, what's going on, which we just talked about. And, you know, that... There's zero funding, you know, this could be that C should be the County Road Commission. I didn't have the R in there. Provide zero funding to the township for local roads. It's kind of repetitive, but it's a point that we want to make to understand there is a source of money, but from a prioritization or a view by a different group that they have decided that the local roads are not a priority or do not have resources to do it. And then what we wanted to do is just show, as an example, what's going on, you know, here in the township. As a road department, we talked about whether it's one or two, we'll confirm that, and what it goes for, which we got a little bit more information today so we can beef that section up to be consistent. But what we're trying to say is, you know, we're trying. We're doing the best we can. And we've got some millage dedication, but it doesn't get to the core issue of really replacing the roads. And then on the next page, you know, we wanted to talk about, you know, as an example of the SAD and the village,

  32. There are some points in here that I'm making, too. You know, it's not all factual, but factual, but with a little emphasis that we're trying to do. And we talked about Act 51, you know, what's going on, which we just talked about. And, you know, that... There's zero funding, you know, this could be that C should be the County Road Commission. I didn't have the R in there. Provide zero funding to the township for local roads. It's kind of repetitive, but it's a point that we want to make to understand there is a source of money, but from a prioritization or a view by a different group that they have decided that the local roads are not a priority or do not have resources to do it. And then what we wanted to do is just show, as an example, what's going on, you know, here in the township. As a road department, we talked about whether it's one or two, we'll confirm that, and what it goes for, which we got a little bit more information today so we can beef that section up to be consistent. But what we're trying to say is, you know, we're trying. We're doing the best we can. And we've got some millage dedication, but it doesn't get to the core issue of really replacing the roads. And then on the next page, you know, we wanted to talk about, you know, as an example of the SAD and the village, just to give an example of how this works out and what the SADs mean, which we've talked a little bit about previously. And what we're, this is, now this is a little bit more than a fact, but what we're saying, SADs are not a viable approach to replace the roads. What we're trying to establish is, we have to be, think differently than SADs. It's kind of been, oh, well, let's let them do an SAD at $55,000, $60,000, $70,000. that is not a viable option so that's the reason we're kind of came together is that's kind of what people are thinking but we need to kind of articulate that and go from that and then the last item which we just talked about is is our understanding i think mikey just indicated there is no people say well we raise the millage or let's have you know let's get some more money because of the state law we're capped at 10 mils you know cities have 20. so we don't need to go you know but so we have a limitation of what we can do and it's the 10 mills and so and we're at that number so we don't have the flex or the even the opportunity to see if we can do so if you remember that michael burn the engineer had come in and said i think you're misreading the law can go up to 20 mills yeah well we've had three different attorneys look at it and we've got three different

  33. And then on the next page, you know, we wanted to talk about, you know, as an example of the SAD and the village, just to give an example of how this works out and what the SADs mean, which we've talked a little bit about previously. And what we're, this is, now this is a little bit more than a fact, but what we're saying, SADs are not a viable approach to replace the roads. What we're trying to establish is, we have to be, think differently than SADs. It's kind of been, oh, well, let's let them do an SAD at $55,000, $60,000, $70,000. that is not a viable option so that's the reason we're kind of came together is that's kind of what people are thinking but we need to kind of articulate that and go from that and then the last item which we just talked about is is our understanding i think mikey just indicated there is no people say well we raise the millage or let's have you know let's get some more money because of the state law we're capped at 10 mils you know cities have 20. so we don't need to go you know but so we have a limitation of what we can do and it's the 10 mills and so and we're at that number so we don't have the flex or the even the opportunity to see if we can do so if you remember that michael burn the engineer had come in and said i think you're misreading the law can go up to 20 mills yeah well we've had three different attorneys look at it and we've got three different opinions okay what's the answer which well we don't want to go past time yeah right so so i think we you know that may be a a fact that could be challenged so we need to make sure that we we document that in the proper way that there's a basis for that that fact so that's kind of the highlights of what we wanted to try to talk about the financing trying to establish the whole principle of where we are what what's available to us you know and what we have to do i i just want to comment on one thing you you brought up maybe um um i won't get an agreement on this but you talked about the difference between you you kind of minimized talking about the difference between township and you and cities and villages in the in the millage and in it and i in my opinion i mean maybe we don't want to put it in i think we should just to to point that out specifically that because we are a township we're all we're limited and cities and villages i know villages i guess the same but cities anyway they have the ability to raise more to raise more than keep more of their own raise more of their own money keep more of their own money and put it toward toward that and i think that should be in there that's all okay we can add that and that's a good point and the only

  34. up to 20 mills yeah well we've had three different attorneys look at it and we've got three different opinions okay what's the answer which well we don't want to go past time yeah right so so i think we you know that may be a a fact that could be challenged so we need to make sure that we we document that in the proper way that there's a basis for that that fact so that's kind of the highlights of what we wanted to try to talk about the financing trying to establish the whole principle of where we are what what's available to us you know and what we have to do i i just want to comment on one thing you you brought up maybe um um i won't get an agreement on this but you talked about the difference between you you kind of minimized talking about the difference between township and you and cities and villages in the in the millage and in it and i in my opinion i mean maybe we don't want to put it in i think we should just to to point that out specifically that because we are a township we're all we're limited and cities and villages i know villages i guess the same but cities anyway they have the ability to raise more to raise more than keep more of their own raise more of their own money keep more of their own money and put it toward toward that and i think that should be in there that's all okay we can add that and that's a good point and the only other thing that i wanted to say is that i think maybe it's not in this maybe i should have brought it up in current situation township is is the fact of our say over what we can do with our roads speed limits um speed bumps um um no turn on you know no right turn none you know all these other signage sorry signage whatever that we have we have we because the county owns them we have no control over that and i think that's important people people are people want to know that we can they want to know about that and they i know a lot of people think that that's wrong that we should have more control of what we do it's our our they're in our village our township anyway um maybe that should be in the we should go back into hours and put that in there i didn't think about i forgot to add that so but but the different where that's a good point where oh you can put it there okay wherever it is as long as it's in there this is the progress report right this is not the final oh no this is just a update we don't need all the no but we want people to know what we've been discussing and we've had talked about this several times in fact it's in the mission statement what I just brought up yeah so I do want it I think it should

  35. think that should be in there that's all okay we can add that and that's a good point and the only other thing that i wanted to say is that i think maybe it's not in this maybe i should have brought it up in current situation township is is the fact of our say over what we can do with our roads speed limits um speed bumps um um no turn on you know no right turn none you know all these other signage sorry signage whatever that we have we have we because the county owns them we have no control over that and i think that's important people people are people want to know that we can they want to know about that and they i know a lot of people think that that's wrong that we should have more control of what we do it's our our they're in our village our township anyway um maybe that should be in the we should go back into hours and put that in there i didn't think about i forgot to add that so but but the different where that's a good point where oh you can put it there okay wherever it is as long as it's in there this is the progress report right this is not the final oh no this is just a update we don't need all the no but we want people to know what we've been discussing and we've had talked about this several times in fact it's in the mission statement what I just brought up yeah so I do want it I think it should be in in the report that goes to the board and goes out over to everybody else knows even the press will cover it I don't know and it'll be out there so anyway okay so go ahead the last situation the last one is the political situation is where you know our conclusion is at the end of the day how this gets resolved we've got to start talking about the environment in which we're operating and which is a political environment we talk about the state and we talk about the county that's where we are we can't change it so how do we work within that systems or try to so what we want to do is just talk about you know act 51 has been out there for 75 years and townships get the get the heisman on those and you know change there's been attempts as we understand the state legislature to change it has not been successful so then I wanted to also indicate so we have a factual basis I don't know a thing that much about the local the road commission but how many people commissioners you know what's their budget and who appoints them because tonight I think the county board of supervisors does but I'm not

  36. mission statement what I just brought up yeah so I do want it I think it should be in in the report that goes to the board and goes out over to everybody else knows even the press will cover it I don't know and it'll be out there so anyway okay so go ahead the last situation the last one is the political situation is where you know our conclusion is at the end of the day how this gets resolved we've got to start talking about the environment in which we're operating and which is a political environment we talk about the state and we talk about the county that's where we are we can't change it so how do we work within that systems or try to so what we want to do is just talk about you know act 51 has been out there for 75 years and townships get the get the heisman on those and you know change there's been attempts as we understand the state legislature to change it has not been successful so then I wanted to also indicate so we have a factual basis I don't know a thing that much about the local the road commission but how many people commissioners you know what's their budget and who appoints them because tonight I think the county board of supervisors does but I'm not sure but we need to just make that statement so people understand that they serve at the pleasure of the board of supervisors which now i'm kind of you start talking about potential political thing maybe you go to some of those people and talk about how this prioritization needs to be changing because of those needs so that that's the purpose of that item and then you know there's we've had you know we want to get more money for local roads we've been unsuccessful so that's what we're we're trying to talk about the last two items are enf and then i had the uh good fortune to have uh reps representative steels la led slave assistant call me just before a meeting and that's what we handed out here and what this is is the report by the state fiscal agency now this is on this report here is this is how the money would be allocated remember they talked about the three billion and this is showing what's in public act 51 and then you go all the way to the right and you can see what's coming out of the proposed bill the only positive is both the senate and the house talked about three billion for roads the issue is they have totally different ideas on how to fund it so that's what they should they have to work out in the next four weeks three and a half weeks to

  37. sure but we need to just make that statement so people understand that they serve at the pleasure of the board of supervisors which now i'm kind of you start talking about potential political thing maybe you go to some of those people and talk about how this prioritization needs to be changing because of those needs so that that's the purpose of that item and then you know there's we've had you know we want to get more money for local roads we've been unsuccessful so that's what we're we're trying to talk about the last two items are enf and then i had the uh good fortune to have uh reps representative steels la led slave assistant call me just before a meeting and that's what we handed out here and what this is is the report by the state fiscal agency now this is on this report here is this is how the money would be allocated remember they talked about the three billion and this is showing what's in public act 51 and then you go all the way to the right and you can see what's coming out of the proposed bill the only positive is both the senate and the house talked about three billion for roads the issue is they have totally different ideas on how to fund it so that's what they should they have to work out in the next four weeks three and a half weeks to figure it out but this is what is currently on the table we know it's not final yet but it gives us a feel and and and the one takeaway uh on this for us is that the county will pick up with if the three billion goes through they would pick up an additional 141 million dollars in addition to what they get above that 51 and the county she explained to me will have with if this passed plus what they're getting on 51 would be 270 million dollars for their budget which would be an increase of 141. so that that just kind of as a point in time where things are and what what what the amount is and so you know i had 200 million that's incorrect you got we got to change that because i've got an update so it just tells you kind of what to think the process and then where that leads us is then and what the legislative denise emphasized several times in the call was this is all about the intent here is about this incremental funding is all about local roads however there's nothing in the formula that says

  38. so that's what they should they have to work out in the next four weeks three and a half weeks to figure it out but this is what is currently on the table we know it's not final yet but it gives us a feel and and and the one takeaway uh on this for us is that the county will pick up with if the three billion goes through they would pick up an additional 141 million dollars in addition to what they get above that 51 and the county she explained to me will have with if this passed plus what they're getting on 51 would be 270 million dollars for their budget which would be an increase of 141. so that that just kind of as a point in time where things are and what what what the amount is and so you know i had 200 million that's incorrect you got we got to change that because i've got an update so it just tells you kind of what to think the process and then where that leads us is then and what the legislative denise emphasized several times in the call was this is all about the intent here is about this incremental funding is all about local roads however there's nothing in the formula that says that so that means it goes to the county road commission that's right and then they will make that allocation decision and depending on what they view their priorities to be or such we don't know that's the reason i'm raising this in our report that we need to be at the table now talking about you're getting this incremental funding this is for local roads you know and not say well we've got this and we did this and we deferred that so we still don't have any money for you it's it's a mindset change that we have to be actively involved and be very involved with talking to our elected representatives to make sure that the message is getting across to the funder of our situation at the Road Commission and that's a little bit more strong with it you wanted but I feel that feels wrong you know you mentioned you said those two things further I think there are three Commission sorry there's only this three members oh three okay okay so that that's okay but the other thing is you mentioned something you said well we're not gonna be able to change this so we're not in the political section public act 51 and I think that although that's coming in the next phase that's in solutions or something I don't

  39. incremental funding is all about local roads however there's nothing in the formula that says that so that means it goes to the county road commission that's right and then they will make that allocation decision and depending on what they view their priorities to be or such we don't know that's the reason i'm raising this in our report that we need to be at the table now talking about you're getting this incremental funding this is for local roads you know and not say well we've got this and we did this and we deferred that so we still don't have any money for you it's it's a mindset change that we have to be actively involved and be very involved with talking to our elected representatives to make sure that the message is getting across to the funder of our situation at the Road Commission and that's a little bit more strong with it you wanted but I feel that feels wrong you know you mentioned you said those two things further I think there are three Commission sorry there's only this three members oh three okay okay so that that's okay but the other thing is you mentioned something you said well we're not gonna be able to change this so we're not in the political section public act 51 and I think that although that's coming in the next phase that's in solutions or something I don't think we should discount the fact that maybe it could be changed that because us and can Township did it we heard from them and others across the around are having the same problem and now all of a sudden they're finding out to do it 60 grand they're gonna say wait a minute maybe we can change some of this maybe we can look at some of this stuff and change the way this is done get rid of public act 51 change that I'm not saying we can do it I'm saying that because we said in our mission statement it's a blank sheet of paper I don't think we should discount anything like that that's that's my opinion and I think this is just setting up the premise at this stage this is the way it is then we move forward and we can talk about well that's the way it is that's what we do all right that's not this is the way it is is right yes this is how it is okay good everybody talking about how to change it so that's our that's our report excellent this is really good all right so what you got are you gonna fill in some of these blanks well and we're asking you know staff here to help us so yes all right anybody have any more comments on this part anybody want to okay all right so I think that's that the that's the last that's the last one right right okay so it looks like every every group has come

  40. although that's coming in the next phase that's in solutions or something I don't think we should discount the fact that maybe it could be changed that because us and can Township did it we heard from them and others across the around are having the same problem and now all of a sudden they're finding out to do it 60 grand they're gonna say wait a minute maybe we can change some of this maybe we can look at some of this stuff and change the way this is done get rid of public act 51 change that I'm not saying we can do it I'm saying that because we said in our mission statement it's a blank sheet of paper I don't think we should discount anything like that that's that's my opinion and I think this is just setting up the premise at this stage this is the way it is then we move forward and we can talk about well that's the way it is that's what we do all right that's not this is the way it is is right yes this is how it is okay good everybody talking about how to change it so that's our that's our report excellent this is really good all right so what you got are you gonna fill in some of these blanks well and we're asking you know staff here to help us so yes all right anybody have any more comments on this part anybody want to okay all right so I think that's that the that's the last that's the last one right right okay so it looks like every every group has come forward with report that can be I think we should we should be fine-tuning this before we go to the board and then we'll do it in a PowerPoint is that what you say we're gonna do yeah but okay so if we want to if in the next meeting you want to have yours okay maybe we can meet again we can now meet we're all together we can meet and maybe fine-tune it Jeff you want to get to get these answers to some of these sounds okay we can do it and then we want to get the financial we get it in writing that we ask for so we can look at it at the next meeting okay all right yeah absolutely Mike do you have a topical areas within a PowerPoint you typically would like covered on any topic that would apply to this report I know subject matter but do you know what I'm asking beyond introduction I mean the basics but do you know what I'm saying Jim and you don't do you have a formula for how you like to have oh for a presentation I'm not no I don't think so not like a standard form I think what we put together like with these separate

  41. that's the last one right right okay so it looks like every every group has come forward with report that can be I think we should we should be fine-tuning this before we go to the board and then we'll do it in a PowerPoint is that what you say we're gonna do yeah but okay so if we want to if in the next meeting you want to have yours okay maybe we can meet again we can now meet we're all together we can meet and maybe fine-tune it Jeff you want to get to get these answers to some of these sounds okay we can do it and then we want to get the financial we get it in writing that we ask for so we can look at it at the next meeting okay all right yeah absolutely Mike do you have a topical areas within a PowerPoint you typically would like covered on any topic that would apply to this report I know subject matter but do you know what I'm asking beyond introduction I mean the basics but do you know what I'm saying Jim and you don't do you have a formula for how you like to have oh for a presentation I'm not no I don't think so not like a standard form I think what we put together like with these separate reports and they follow the outline yes I think that would be sufficient because we'll give them the handout also and then we'll make it available online for people don't look at them as well I can pull up what I've already started with you play what do you have yeah what are descendants of all of us we'll just add our own stuff okay our point and load it in let's see what she does just so you can get an idea of graphics and just the background in the car so we can add to that that's that's a great way to start we met with and then go into these reports one after the other in the outline wow this is pretty oh I like that too yeah I know see this is well except that show that shows perfect roads you're gonna get you're gonna get that right wait a minute

  42. not like a standard form I think what we put together like with these separate reports and they follow the outline yes I think that would be sufficient because we'll give them the handout also and then we'll make it available online for people don't look at them as well I can pull up what I've already started with you play what do you have yeah what are descendants of all of us we'll just add our own stuff okay our point and load it in let's see what she does just so you can get an idea of graphics and just the background in the car so we can add to that that's that's a great way to start we met with and then go into these reports one after the other in the outline wow this is pretty oh I like that too yeah I know see this is well except that show that shows perfect roads you're gonna get you're gonna get that right wait a minute our goal you got wrong yeah no that's so that's our goal okay this is where you find yourself this is what you think we have this is what you think well you're wrong yeah that's it we can say here is what does not exist did you get annexed no no no no my name but not me so don't say that about you know I just I just we have to make a comment about that picture that road that are you kidding me what planet are you living on I got the same yeah that's a good place say this is this is what we would you we'd like now here's what we got told you you show a picture of a road that's disintegrated so that first time will be last night we'll spend as well we'll figure that out pictures we'll make them laugh so what's the timing of our next steps like what is your well well I think let's do one

  43. our goal you got wrong yeah no that's so that's our goal okay this is where you find yourself this is what you think we have this is what you think well you're wrong yeah that's it we can say here is what does not exist did you get annexed no no no no my name but not me so don't say that about you know I just I just we have to make a comment about that picture that road that are you kidding me what planet are you living on I got the same yeah that's a good place say this is this is what we would you we'd like now here's what we got told you you show a picture of a road that's disintegrated so that first time will be last night we'll spend as well we'll figure that out pictures we'll make them laugh so what's the timing of our next steps like what is your well well I think let's do one more meeting to get it together sure which would be in two weeks so that's like the 15th 18th whatever is that 17th 17th okay and then I'm thinking like around october 1st yeah whatever and go to the board and do the presentation yeah so that we have after the next meeting we have two weeks to make sure we have the right you know how have it done yeah correct after okay when is your next meeting so our next meeting is the 8th that's monday then the 22nd and then the uh it would be sue if i'm right it would be the sixth that's the one that's what we want actually the 22nd moves to the 23rd uh the 22nd moves let's uh pull up with because of the holiday so october 6th would be the next that would monday the october 6th would be i'm gonna i'll just pencil that would you see that's that's a good time is that the date so if it wasn't the 6th it would be then the um 6th the 20th of october well well she's just good should should we appear at that meeting or in the in the peanut gallery um or no i think so if you'd like yeah i think we should all

  44. them laugh so what's the timing of our next steps like what is your well well I think let's do one more meeting to get it together sure which would be in two weeks so that's like the 15th 18th whatever is that 17th 17th okay and then I'm thinking like around october 1st yeah whatever and go to the board and do the presentation yeah so that we have after the next meeting we have two weeks to make sure we have the right you know how have it done yeah correct after okay when is your next meeting so our next meeting is the 8th that's monday then the 22nd and then the uh it would be sue if i'm right it would be the sixth that's the one that's what we want actually the 22nd moves to the 23rd uh the 22nd moves let's uh pull up with because of the holiday so october 6th would be the next that would monday the october 6th would be i'm gonna i'll just pencil that would you see that's that's a good time is that the date so if it wasn't the 6th it would be then the um 6th the 20th of october well well she's just good should should we appear at that meeting or in the in the peanut gallery um or no i think so if you'd like yeah i think we should all like there is represented that's all on us and maybe we talk about our point that's on the powerpoint then right so we do the powerpoint and then you would present what your portion of that powerpoint and answer any questions why not oh you want to split that so the report's done by everybody right i think that demonstrates some things that's for sure oh oh oh oh oh Okay. or syrian october 13th october 13th yeah what's that counting wrong there sir what's wrong with this what was the six uh the holiday in september what's that september columbus yes and then it moves to the 29th for russia because of russia oh russia that's right okay yeah okay so what's wrong with that monday october 6th it's the planning commission it's not the board of trustees oh well that makes okay 13th okay meeting for sure okay so it'll be october what then sue 13th great that's a that's a done that's yeah okay that's columbus day that doesn't matter is it on the agenda then yeah well federal offices are closed we're open that's fine okay stay right yeah yeah and we're meeting and we're okay i got it

  45. no i think so if you'd like yeah i think we should all like there is represented that's all on us and maybe we talk about our point that's on the powerpoint then right so we do the powerpoint and then you would present what your portion of that powerpoint and answer any questions why not oh you want to split that so the report's done by everybody right i think that demonstrates some things that's for sure oh oh oh oh oh Okay. or syrian october 13th october 13th yeah what's that counting wrong there sir what's wrong with this what was the six uh the holiday in september what's that september columbus yes and then it moves to the 29th for russia because of russia oh russia that's right okay yeah okay so what's wrong with that monday october 6th it's the planning commission it's not the board of trustees oh well that makes okay 13th okay meeting for sure okay so it'll be october what then sue 13th great that's a that's a done that's yeah okay that's columbus day that doesn't matter is it on the agenda then yeah well federal offices are closed we're open that's fine okay stay right yeah yeah and we're meeting and we're okay i got it good enough the hard-working township does it matter are you doing other things that during that meeting that aren't well we won't know the agenda but we'll get first up on the agenda okay so you don't have to sit for two hours listening to yeah yes well that would be i thank you that would be great entertaining yeah uh sure would seven o'clock yes sir although we are looking at moving our meetings up to 6 30 and we hope to make a decision on that soon so it could be 6 30. i'll have to make a decision or serve yeah yeah that's true water that and that picture of the rose what planet do you want what type of wine do you drink no i'm just kidding red or white I think I'm excited to present this to the Board of Trustees and I hope a lot of people in the audience and watching on TV hear what we've done because it's so enlightening and so frustrating. The only other thing we have to talk about though is and that could be after when we before the next meeting is how we want to make it we don't want to make a half an hour you know we want it to be succinct right so that people don't start dozing off right so we have to figure how how much time each one of us can present okay okay all right now that's the man that was here yeah he was he left

  46. that's fine okay stay right yeah yeah and we're meeting and we're okay i got it good enough the hard-working township does it matter are you doing other things that during that meeting that aren't well we won't know the agenda but we'll get first up on the agenda okay so you don't have to sit for two hours listening to yeah yes well that would be i thank you that would be great entertaining yeah uh sure would seven o'clock yes sir although we are looking at moving our meetings up to 6 30 and we hope to make a decision on that soon so it could be 6 30. i'll have to make a decision or serve yeah yeah that's true water that and that picture of the rose what planet do you want what type of wine do you drink no i'm just kidding red or white I think I'm excited to present this to the Board of Trustees and I hope a lot of people in the audience and watching on TV hear what we've done because it's so enlightening and so frustrating. The only other thing we have to talk about though is and that could be after when we before the next meeting is how we want to make it we don't want to make a half an hour you know we want it to be succinct right so that people don't start dozing off right so we have to figure how how much time each one of us can present okay okay all right now that's the man that was here yeah he was he left me this note and I read it oh all right it was George Buehler and um he has four issues where he lives on Lane Lake Road which is this issue with the speed limit would like a flasher speed light uh the road needs to be repaired they need a larger entrance way and um sidewalks okay thanks for the input good okay yeah I wish you would have stayed I wish you would too I asked him if you would I said if you need more time I mean you do three minutes but you know what there's nobody else so right do what you want he said no I didn't need that much time so I get it okay yeah all right anything else that's not on the agenda that anybody wants to bring up the next time okay then I guess we did it in one hour exactly not bad all right next meeting that we're going to go over to fine-tune all this and we have three weeks roughly then for us to all put the thing together so we should fine-tune it in a powerpoint format so that we know what no no no no just make any of the questions that have to be answered yeah we have to fill in the

  47. each one of us can present okay okay all right now that's the man that was here yeah he was he left me this note and I read it oh all right it was George Buehler and um he has four issues where he lives on Lane Lake Road which is this issue with the speed limit would like a flasher speed light uh the road needs to be repaired they need a larger entrance way and um sidewalks okay thanks for the input good okay yeah I wish you would have stayed I wish you would too I asked him if you would I said if you need more time I mean you do three minutes but you know what there's nobody else so right do what you want he said no I didn't need that much time so I get it okay yeah all right anything else that's not on the agenda that anybody wants to bring up the next time okay then I guess we did it in one hour exactly not bad all right next meeting that we're going to go over to fine-tune all this and we have three weeks roughly then for us to all put the thing together so we should fine-tune it in a powerpoint format so that we know what no no no no just make any of the questions that have to be answered yeah we have to fill in the blanks fill in the blanks or anything and if there's nothing if you like it you know if you like the way it is and then we'll load it up on there yeah i just want to have another opportunity to to if there's any changes i'm just concerned that like looking at mine the real estate and powerpoint isn't very large compared to word and so it's now taking some things and making it more concise like the entire reports are not i don't see how that can be put in i mean no no yeah so it's going to be yeah concerns okay presentation uh you have bullets and uh you know you have a lot of written stuff but you have bullets you can make bullet points out of each one talk about those bullets but if if every point is raised that's in there it still can be done in six or seven minutes and then you do four you do four of those you know we could still be under 30 minutes jeff do you want to take our report and we're going to fine-tune it but also make bullet points you know suggested bullet points for for our pieces between now and in our next meeting you refine it that make bullet points out yeah to make it more concise just you can help me we'll do the report

  48. no no no no just make any of the questions that have to be answered yeah we have to fill in the blanks fill in the blanks or anything and if there's nothing if you like it you know if you like the way it is and then we'll load it up on there yeah i just want to have another opportunity to to if there's any changes i'm just concerned that like looking at mine the real estate and powerpoint isn't very large compared to word and so it's now taking some things and making it more concise like the entire reports are not i don't see how that can be put in i mean no no yeah so it's going to be yeah concerns okay presentation uh you have bullets and uh you know you have a lot of written stuff but you have bullets you can make bullet points out of each one talk about those bullets but if if every point is raised that's in there it still can be done in six or seven minutes and then you do four you do four of those you know we could still be under 30 minutes jeff do you want to take our report and we're going to fine-tune it but also make bullet points you know suggested bullet points for for our pieces between now and in our next meeting you refine it that make bullet points out yeah to make it more concise just you can help me we'll do the report but then if someone needs wants to read they can read the whole thing but we can also create bullet points yeah okay okay we'll do whatever you think is we'll do that okay whatever you think you just you're you need to fill in a lot of these blanks that's all yeah what uh director okay good all right you don't have the database all right all right motion to adjourn move to adjourn and we're adjourned thank you thank you very much everybody it worked great thanks good meeting all of course huh no no he's good because i think like you're proud of you