the-compact
Planning Commission Wednesday, February 18, 2026 · 159 min

Bloomfield Township Planning Commission Meeting on February 16, 2026

Summary

The city council meeting discussed zoning changes, banquet halls, and development projects, with residents expressing concerns about noise, traffic, and property values.

  • Zoning changes and banquet halls were discussed in the research park district.
  • Residents expressed concerns about noise, traffic, and property values due to proposed developments.
  • The city council tabled the zoning amendment for the banquet hall to allow for further discussion and developer-resident collaboration.
  • The Planning Division presented an annual report highlighting decisions made by bodies throughout the years.
  • The city council discussed a moratorium on sports courts and plans for public input.

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Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. let's call this meeting to order please welcome everybody welcome to the February 16th meeting of the Planning Commission before we start I know that well yes got it before we yes wetland boards is part of the Planning Commission and we will do that but before we start I'd just like to those of you who've never been to one of these meetings or maybe look watching us this with the Planning Commission which is also the wetlands board we're appointed by the Board of Trustees seven members volunteers appointed we're not elected and we are a an advisory board only meaning that whatever we decide here tonight whatever is moved it goes on to the Board of Trustees for final approval we're just advisory so the point is that whatever you tell us tonight when comes time for that we listen we make a recommendation but you'll have another opportunity when it goes to the board who makes the final decision so with that we have to we have three things basically on tonight's agenda it's a full agenda so get ready relax settle in it this may take a while but we have as I said the wetlands board is a part of the Planning Commission and the first item will be a wetlands board meeting and before I go on I just want to introduce one of our elected officials Mike show stack in the back our treasurer so just you know that and well Neal what he's of our our board but um so the first thing on the agenda then is to go is is the um a separate agenda is the wetlands board completely separate what we'll talk about later um and we have a quorum so we can do business need four out of seven we have five we have five and so we have a quorum and the first thing is um we have public comment only on matters pertaining to the wetlands board and and things that are not on the agenda okay uh that gives you an opportunity to say anything you want about other than what's on the agenda you'll have plenty of time for those items after we hear it so if this i don't see anybody jumping up for the public comment you'll have plenty of time to make your comments um approval of the minutes we had um the last meeting was on august wow august of 2025 okay so we have those minutes we have to approve them moved moved and second all those in favor aye and the opposed all right so we have a public hearing right now uh on bloomfield

  2. wetlands board is a part of the Planning Commission and the first item will be a wetlands board meeting and before I go on I just want to introduce one of our elected officials Mike show stack in the back our treasurer so just you know that and well Neal what he's of our our board but um so the first thing on the agenda then is to go is is the um a separate agenda is the wetlands board completely separate what we'll talk about later um and we have a quorum so we can do business need four out of seven we have five we have five and so we have a quorum and the first thing is um we have public comment only on matters pertaining to the wetlands board and and things that are not on the agenda okay uh that gives you an opportunity to say anything you want about other than what's on the agenda you'll have plenty of time for those items after we hear it so if this i don't see anybody jumping up for the public comment you'll have plenty of time to make your comments um approval of the minutes we had um the last meeting was on august wow august of 2025 okay so we have those minutes we have to approve them moved moved and second all those in favor aye and the opposed all right so we have a public hearing right now uh on bloomfield hollows and again it's not about the site plan it's not about anything except the wetlands and um so andrea oh hi good evening uh board uh my name is andrea bibby i am the director of the planning building and ordinance department here at bloomfield township um just a brief introduction to the presentation um that will shortly be presented um by um the township's uh WETLAND CONSULTANT, NSWANDER ENVIRONMENTAL. I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE REQUEST THAT YOU ARE TO HEAR NOW AND TO DELIBERATE ON IN THIS PORTION OF THE WETLAND BOARD MEETING IS YOU WILL CONSIDER, IT'S ACTUALLY A WETLAND APPLICATION THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE TOWNSHIP. AS PART OF THAT WETLAND APPLICATION, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO IMPACT APPROXIMATELY 500 SQUARE FEET OF AN EXISTING WETLAND THAT LIES ON THE PROPERTY. AND SO YOUR DUTY NOW WOULD BE TO CONSIDER THAT WETLAND PERMIT. I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, WHICH YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS, BUT LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT EVEN WITH IF THE WETLAND BOARD WERE TO APPROVE THE WETLAND

  3. those in favor aye and the opposed all right so we have a public hearing right now uh on bloomfield hollows and again it's not about the site plan it's not about anything except the wetlands and um so andrea oh hi good evening uh board uh my name is andrea bibby i am the director of the planning building and ordinance department here at bloomfield township um just a brief introduction to the presentation um that will shortly be presented um by um the township's uh WETLAND CONSULTANT, NSWANDER ENVIRONMENTAL. I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE REQUEST THAT YOU ARE TO HEAR NOW AND TO DELIBERATE ON IN THIS PORTION OF THE WETLAND BOARD MEETING IS YOU WILL CONSIDER, IT'S ACTUALLY A WETLAND APPLICATION THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO THE TOWNSHIP. AS PART OF THAT WETLAND APPLICATION, THE APPLICANT IS REQUESTING TO IMPACT APPROXIMATELY 500 SQUARE FEET OF AN EXISTING WETLAND THAT LIES ON THE PROPERTY. AND SO YOUR DUTY NOW WOULD BE TO CONSIDER THAT WETLAND PERMIT. I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW, WHICH YOU ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE PROCESS, BUT LET THE PUBLIC KNOW THAT EVEN WITH IF THE WETLAND BOARD WERE TO APPROVE THE WETLAND PERMIT, IT CERTAINLY IN NO WAY APPROVES THE SITE PLAN. THESE ARE SEPARATE ITEMS. THESE ARE SEPARATE BOARDS. YOU'RE WEARING YOUR WETLAND BOARD HAT RIGHT NOW. AND THEN LATER ON, YOU'LL BE WEARING YOUR SITE PLAN HAT. IN THAT CASE, THEN WE WILL DISCUSS THE DETAILS OF THE ACTUAL SITE PLAN. SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF EXPLAIN THAT AND WHAT THE PROCESS WAS. AND WITH THAT, I'D BE HAPPY TO INTRODUCE JEFF BRIDGELIN. HE WORKS FOR NISWANDER ENVIRONMENTAL ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP. ANYTIME THAT WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES TO THE TOWNSHIP IN WHICH AN APPLICANT IS SEEKING TO IMPACT A WETLAND. BLOOMFIELD TOWNSHIP DOES HAVE A WETLAND ORDINANCE AND OFTENTIMES. our wetland requirements actually go above and beyond the requirements at the state level in which any wetland that gets impacted in the township does require a wetland permit. So with that, I do want to introduce Jeff, have him come up here, and he can walk you through. He has a slideshow that he's prepared, and he'll be able to address what he found out on the site and what the proposal is, and then also make a recommendation based on his expertise. Come on, come on. But while you're walking up, I just want a housekeeping thing. If you would, please turn your phones off or put them on silent.

  4. WITH IF THE WETLAND BOARD WERE TO APPROVE THE WETLAND PERMIT, IT CERTAINLY IN NO WAY APPROVES THE SITE PLAN. THESE ARE SEPARATE ITEMS. THESE ARE SEPARATE BOARDS. YOU'RE WEARING YOUR WETLAND BOARD HAT RIGHT NOW. AND THEN LATER ON, YOU'LL BE WEARING YOUR SITE PLAN HAT. IN THAT CASE, THEN WE WILL DISCUSS THE DETAILS OF THE ACTUAL SITE PLAN. SO I JUST WANTED TO KIND OF EXPLAIN THAT AND WHAT THE PROCESS WAS. AND WITH THAT, I'D BE HAPPY TO INTRODUCE JEFF BRIDGELIN. HE WORKS FOR NISWANDER ENVIRONMENTAL ON BEHALF OF THE TOWNSHIP. ANYTIME THAT WE HAVE A DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES TO THE TOWNSHIP IN WHICH AN APPLICANT IS SEEKING TO IMPACT A WETLAND. BLOOMFIELD TOWNSHIP DOES HAVE A WETLAND ORDINANCE AND OFTENTIMES. our wetland requirements actually go above and beyond the requirements at the state level in which any wetland that gets impacted in the township does require a wetland permit. So with that, I do want to introduce Jeff, have him come up here, and he can walk you through. He has a slideshow that he's prepared, and he'll be able to address what he found out on the site and what the proposal is, and then also make a recommendation based on his expertise. Come on, come on. But while you're walking up, I just want a housekeeping thing. If you would, please turn your phones off or put them on silent. I don't want to have phones ringing all over the meeting while there's people speaking. Thank you. Hello. My name's Jeff Bridgeland. I'm an ecologist with Nice Wonder Environmental, and we are the wetland consultant for Bloomfield Township. I'll be talking about the proposed Bloomfield Hollow project today. I'll kind of go over what the applicant's wetland consultant found on site. I'll give a description of the wetland and natural feature setback impacts, and then I'll talk a little bit about the site plan review process that we went through with the township and with the applicant. So the site, which is shown here in yellow, whoops, here we go, it was delineated by ASTI Environmental in June 2023. We determined that all the wetlands that they flagged were accurately delineated in the field. The main features on this property, there are eight wetlands, wetlands A through H, and an enclosed drain here, this white line. So this figure that you're seeing is from ASTI's wetland location map as part of their wetland delineation report.

  5. If you would, please turn your phones off or put them on silent. I don't want to have phones ringing all over the meeting while there's people speaking. Thank you. Hello. My name's Jeff Bridgeland. I'm an ecologist with Nice Wonder Environmental, and we are the wetland consultant for Bloomfield Township. I'll be talking about the proposed Bloomfield Hollow project today. I'll kind of go over what the applicant's wetland consultant found on site. I'll give a description of the wetland and natural feature setback impacts, and then I'll talk a little bit about the site plan review process that we went through with the township and with the applicant. So the site, which is shown here in yellow, whoops, here we go, it was delineated by ASTI Environmental in June 2023. We determined that all the wetlands that they flagged were accurately delineated in the field. The main features on this property, there are eight wetlands, wetlands A through H, and an enclosed drain here, this white line. So this figure that you're seeing is from ASTI's wetland location map as part of their wetland delineation report. I actually added the white enclosed drain line. That was not identified by ASTI Environmental, which is not surprising. It's an enclosed drain. It doesn't show up on any of the typical online maps that wetland consultants typically use when determining if there's, you know, we kind of do like a desktop review prior to going into the field to see what we should be looking for, and enclosed drains don't usually show up. So it's not surprising that it was missed. But so I added this white line on here. It's approximate. It's not exact. But these other wetlands here are exact. In fact, they were GPSed in the field by ASTI. So there's eight wetlands, wetlands A through H. Wetland A is down here in the southwest corner. Wetland B is this linear feature right here. A and B are both man-made ditches and not much more than that. Wetlands D and E are here in the southeast corner. Wetland E extends off-site onto the adjacent property owner's site. There's wetland F, which is up in here. Wetland F, which is up in here. Thank you.

  6. So this figure that you're seeing is from ASTI's wetland location map as part of their wetland delineation report. I actually added the white enclosed drain line. That was not identified by ASTI Environmental, which is not surprising. It's an enclosed drain. It doesn't show up on any of the typical online maps that wetland consultants typically use when determining if there's, you know, we kind of do like a desktop review prior to going into the field to see what we should be looking for, and enclosed drains don't usually show up. So it's not surprising that it was missed. But so I added this white line on here. It's approximate. It's not exact. But these other wetlands here are exact. In fact, they were GPSed in the field by ASTI. So there's eight wetlands, wetlands A through H. Wetland A is down here in the southwest corner. Wetland B is this linear feature right here. A and B are both man-made ditches and not much more than that. Wetlands D and E are here in the southeast corner. Wetland E extends off-site onto the adjacent property owner's site. There's wetland F, which is up in here. Wetland F, which is up in here. Thank you. It extends slightly off-site to the north. Wetland G, which is this very small little feature right here. This is a scrub shrub wetland. And wetland H, which is this larger wetland here. And this is a vernal pool that extends off-site to the north as well. So I'll talk in depth mostly about wetlands B and C tonight. But in essence, all eight wetlands total about 1.45 acres on the property, like I said, they were all accurately flagged by ASTI. All the on-site wetlands are regulated by the township due to the essential clause. We determined that they're essential to the natural preservation of the natural resources within the township. Regarding whether or not they are regulated by the state, by EGLE, stands for Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy. They're the state agency that has jurisdiction over the regulatory status of wetlands. We think that EGLE will probably regulate wetlands B and C. So typically wetlands are regulated if they're greater than five acres in size

  7. It extends slightly off-site to the north. Wetland G, which is this very small little feature right here. This is a scrub shrub wetland. And wetland H, which is this larger wetland here. And this is a vernal pool that extends off-site to the north as well. So I'll talk in depth mostly about wetlands B and C tonight. But in essence, all eight wetlands total about 1.45 acres on the property, like I said, they were all accurately flagged by ASTI. All the on-site wetlands are regulated by the township due to the essential clause. We determined that they're essential to the natural preservation of the natural resources within the township. Regarding whether or not they are regulated by the state, by EGLE, stands for Department of Environment, Great Lakes and Energy. They're the state agency that has jurisdiction over the regulatory status of wetlands. We think that EGLE will probably regulate wetlands B and C. So typically wetlands are regulated if they're greater than five acres in size or if they're within 500 feet of a stream or a lake or a pond. In this case, it's a little bit different because we're dealing with an enclosed drain. And it's been our experience that EGLE is a little... inconsistent when determining regulatory status with enclosed drains based on my personal experience they tend to regulate wetlands that are directly connected hydrologically to it so that's why we feel that wetlands b and c will probably be regulated by eagle because there are direct hydrologic connections to to the drain via catch basins and culverts so it is up to eagle to make the their determination on whether or not they're going to take jurisdiction over it and we've strongly advised the applicant to reach out to eagle for what they call a pre-application meeting to get their determination on those two wetlands in particular talk a little bit about the site plan here this is the what we've seen as the final site plan you can see there's a access driveway coming in from franklin road here

  8. So typically wetlands are regulated if they're greater than five acres in size or if they're within 500 feet of a stream or a lake or a pond. In this case, it's a little bit different because we're dealing with an enclosed drain. And it's been our experience that EGLE is a little... inconsistent when determining regulatory status with enclosed drains based on my personal experience they tend to regulate wetlands that are directly connected hydrologically to it so that's why we feel that wetlands b and c will probably be regulated by eagle because there are direct hydrologic connections to to the drain via catch basins and culverts so it is up to eagle to make the their determination on whether or not they're going to take jurisdiction over it and we've strongly advised the applicant to reach out to eagle for what they call a pre-application meeting to get their determination on those two wetlands in particular talk a little bit about the site plan here this is the what we've seen as the final site plan you can see there's a access driveway coming in from franklin road here parking in the north and a little bit down here the building itself is proposed for this area and then it kind of terminates at a cul-de-sac right here so as far as wetland impacts go these are pretty minor from you know we've we've gone through a lot of wetland board meetings in the past and um this is a very minor impact they're proposing to impact 414 square feet with the driveway wait you crossing in wetland b the crossing is 13.8 feet long by about 30 feet wide the actual area they're going to be crossing is it's not this exact area but it's very close to this this is the linear ditch this is kind of the very southern terminus of this of this ditched feature so the the impact is going to be slightly north of that so but it is essentially just the ditch that they're going to be impacting this this feature extends from the southern property boundary to the northern property boundary so it's unavoidable there's if you're going to develop anything east of this drain or of this ditch rather the wetland has to be impacted that's it's it's an unavoidable situation

  9. parking in the north and a little bit down here the building itself is proposed for this area and then it kind of terminates at a cul-de-sac right here so as far as wetland impacts go these are pretty minor from you know we've we've gone through a lot of wetland board meetings in the past and um this is a very minor impact they're proposing to impact 414 square feet with the driveway wait you crossing in wetland b the crossing is 13.8 feet long by about 30 feet wide the actual area they're going to be crossing is it's not this exact area but it's very close to this this is the linear ditch this is kind of the very southern terminus of this of this ditched feature so the the impact is going to be slightly north of that so but it is essentially just the ditch that they're going to be impacting this this feature extends from the southern property boundary to the northern property boundary so it's unavoidable there's if you're going to develop anything east of this drain or of this ditch rather the wetland has to be impacted that's it's it's an unavoidable situation so because this wetland impact is so minor we're talking point zero zero nine acres we're not recommending mitigation mitigation for a forested well and is typically at a two to one ratio so if they were to impact an acre of wetland they would have to replace it with two acres of wetland in this situation we'd be talking about 0.018 acres of of of wetland mitigation and we've found that it's it's it just doesn't work when you when you have to mitigate for something that small it leads to a lot of issues it's excessively costly to the applicant and this is a pretty you minor impact to a pretty low quality wetland. So that's why we've decided that mitigation, or we're recommending that mitigation not be required for the wetland impact. This is the northern portion of wetland B, this photo here. So as mentioned, it's a forested wetland. It is a linear ditch that kind of extends beyond just the banks of the ditch. It's largely dominated by buckthorn, common buckthorn, which is a highly invasive shrub. There are some ash trees and elm trees along the edge.

  10. or of this ditch rather the wetland has to be impacted that's it's it's an unavoidable situation so because this wetland impact is so minor we're talking point zero zero nine acres we're not recommending mitigation mitigation for a forested well and is typically at a two to one ratio so if they were to impact an acre of wetland they would have to replace it with two acres of wetland in this situation we'd be talking about 0.018 acres of of of wetland mitigation and we've found that it's it's it just doesn't work when you when you have to mitigate for something that small it leads to a lot of issues it's excessively costly to the applicant and this is a pretty you minor impact to a pretty low quality wetland. So that's why we've decided that mitigation, or we're recommending that mitigation not be required for the wetland impact. This is the northern portion of wetland B, this photo here. So as mentioned, it's a forested wetland. It is a linear ditch that kind of extends beyond just the banks of the ditch. It's largely dominated by buckthorn, common buckthorn, which is a highly invasive shrub. There are some ash trees and elm trees along the edge. This portion in the photo here is a little bit further north. This is what I would say is probably the nicer or higher quality portion of wetland B. It's dominated by sedges and native vegetation. And as mentioned, there is a direct connection to the Murphy Drain here. So that's it for as far as wetland impacts go. There are natural feature setback impacts. So each wetland has a 25-foot natural feature setback that requires a variance if it's gonna be impacted. So the applicant is proposing impacts to four wetlands in five locations, to wetlands A, B, two portions of wetland C, and wetland F up here. So in total, the five areas would constitute about 6,600 square feet, which is about- 0.15 acres the photos down here are kind of snapshots of what the habitat looks like surrounding these wetlands it's pretty weedy it's dominated by invasive buckthorn for the most part there's a some herbaceous weedy species non-native grasses goldenrods pretty common species raspberry

  11. There are some ash trees and elm trees along the edge. This portion in the photo here is a little bit further north. This is what I would say is probably the nicer or higher quality portion of wetland B. It's dominated by sedges and native vegetation. And as mentioned, there is a direct connection to the Murphy Drain here. So that's it for as far as wetland impacts go. There are natural feature setback impacts. So each wetland has a 25-foot natural feature setback that requires a variance if it's gonna be impacted. So the applicant is proposing impacts to four wetlands in five locations, to wetlands A, B, two portions of wetland C, and wetland F up here. So in total, the five areas would constitute about 6,600 square feet, which is about- 0.15 acres the photos down here are kind of snapshots of what the habitat looks like surrounding these wetlands it's pretty weedy it's dominated by invasive buckthorn for the most part there's a some herbaceous weedy species non-native grasses goldenrods pretty common species raspberry multiflora rose there are a few trees that would be impacted but nothing of major significance so because it's about 0.15 acres of impact to the natural feature setback we will be requiring mitigation for that mitigation varies from project to project but it for this project they are proposing to provide invasive species control which i took to mean buckthorn control and they're proposing to plant and seed this feature right here this is a proposed bioretention basin adjacent to wetland sea they're proposing to seed that with a native wetland seed mix so essentially it could um end up becoming a wetland so as far as the site plan review comments go i'm going to switch between this uh this slide and the previous one um as i mentioned this this is their latest iteration of the of the uh site plan

  12. there's a some herbaceous weedy species non-native grasses goldenrods pretty common species raspberry multiflora rose there are a few trees that would be impacted but nothing of major significance so because it's about 0.15 acres of impact to the natural feature setback we will be requiring mitigation for that mitigation varies from project to project but it for this project they are proposing to provide invasive species control which i took to mean buckthorn control and they're proposing to plant and seed this feature right here this is a proposed bioretention basin adjacent to wetland sea they're proposing to seed that with a native wetland seed mix so essentially it could um end up becoming a wetland so as far as the site plan review comments go i'm going to switch between this uh this slide and the previous one um as i mentioned this this is their latest iteration of the of the uh site plan Initially, it was much different from the first time that I saw it in October. They had the building pretty much lying on top of Wetland C. They had a road crossing right through Wetland A. Wetland B, like I mentioned, is unavoidable, so that hasn't really changed much. But they also showed parking lot impacting Wetland G up here and a little bit of Wetland F. So there were some hurdles to get through with the applicant and his design team. And I do have to say we went through a lot of meetings, and they went through a number of iterations, which I'm sure were not cheap. And they did their best to minimize and avoid the Wetlands to the greatest extent possible. And from a Wetlands perspective, I'm appreciative of that and the efforts they took to do that. So as I mentioned, they were talking about initially impacting Wetlands A, B, C, and G. And what they did is they altered this driveway to avoid Wetland A completely. They shifted the site east to avoid Wetland C completely. And they reconfigured the parking lot several times to miss Wetlands G and F up here.

  13. Initially, it was much different from the first time that I saw it in October. They had the building pretty much lying on top of Wetland C. They had a road crossing right through Wetland A. Wetland B, like I mentioned, is unavoidable, so that hasn't really changed much. But they also showed parking lot impacting Wetland G up here and a little bit of Wetland F. So there were some hurdles to get through with the applicant and his design team. And I do have to say we went through a lot of meetings, and they went through a number of iterations, which I'm sure were not cheap. And they did their best to minimize and avoid the Wetlands to the greatest extent possible. And from a Wetlands perspective, I'm appreciative of that and the efforts they took to do that. So as I mentioned, they were talking about initially impacting Wetlands A, B, C, and G. And what they did is they altered this driveway to avoid Wetland A completely. They shifted the site east to avoid Wetland C completely. And they reconfigured the parking lot several times to miss Wetlands G and F up here. So during the site plan review process, kind of later in the game, once we determined that this iteration was pretty good in terms of minimizing... and avoiding wetland impacts our biggest concern was with their proposed retention basin bioretention basin down here and they had an outlet up here both of which we were fearful was going to impact wetland sea negatively so wetland sea is a forested wetland and it's a vernal pool vernal pools are are increasingly uncommon in Michigan especially southeast Michigan they provide critical habitat for amphibians and reptiles particularly frogs and salamanders vernal pools in general have less protection from Eagle because of their just because of how they are they're they're generally isolated features and they're generally small so if they're not within 500 feet of a wetland lake stream and if they're not larger than five acres which not many of these fernal pools are then they're not regulated by Eagle so again these are

  14. And they reconfigured the parking lot several times to miss Wetlands G and F up here. So during the site plan review process, kind of later in the game, once we determined that this iteration was pretty good in terms of minimizing... and avoiding wetland impacts our biggest concern was with their proposed retention basin bioretention basin down here and they had an outlet up here both of which we were fearful was going to impact wetland sea negatively so wetland sea is a forested wetland and it's a vernal pool vernal pools are are increasingly uncommon in Michigan especially southeast Michigan they provide critical habitat for amphibians and reptiles particularly frogs and salamanders vernal pools in general have less protection from Eagle because of their just because of how they are they're they're generally isolated features and they're generally small so if they're not within 500 feet of a wetland lake stream and if they're not larger than five acres which not many of these fernal pools are then they're not regulated by Eagle so again these are this is critical habitat for some pretty important wildlife in our estimation so with the bioretention basin initially shown as being lower than the adjacent wetland and a catch basin up here with an invert elevation lower than the well and we were really concerned that it was going to basically dewater wetland sea which would essentially kill the the functions and values that it provides not only for stormwater and pollution control and groundwater recharge and everything else but also for for the wetlands or for the amphibians and reptiles that that need vernal pools in order to breed so we met with them and they essentially lowered the site they or raised the site rather they made the they redesigned the bioretention basin so it would be higher than the adjacent grade of the wetland and they raised the invert elevation of this catch basin so it would no longer dewater wetland so two of our biggest concerns there were alleviated by the design team for that so as mentioned we are requiring mitigation for the natural feature setback impacts the plan again is to plant the bioretention basin with

  15. these fernal pools are then they're not regulated by Eagle so again these are this is critical habitat for some pretty important wildlife in our estimation so with the bioretention basin initially shown as being lower than the adjacent wetland and a catch basin up here with an invert elevation lower than the well and we were really concerned that it was going to basically dewater wetland sea which would essentially kill the the functions and values that it provides not only for stormwater and pollution control and groundwater recharge and everything else but also for for the wetlands or for the amphibians and reptiles that that need vernal pools in order to breed so we met with them and they essentially lowered the site they or raised the site rather they made the they redesigned the bioretention basin so it would be higher than the adjacent grade of the wetland and they raised the invert elevation of this catch basin so it would no longer dewater wetland so two of our biggest concerns there were alleviated by the design team for that so as mentioned we are requiring mitigation for the natural feature setback impacts the plan again is to plant the bioretention basin with native wetland seed and to provide invasive species control in the nature in the natural feature setbacks one thing that we did requires that they provide this plan prior to beginning construction so one other issue we had with the site plan towards the end of the review process was that their soil erosion sediment control plan wasn't showing that it was protecting all the natural feature setbacks in wetland areas and again they made changes to the plans as we asked them to do and so all the natural features including the wetlands are being protected now So, essentially the wetland impact area, wetland B, that linear ditch, is a, like we said, kind of a pretty low-quality wetland feature. It doesn't provide much function or value. It's a man-made ditch. So, and the impact area is 0.009 acres. So, this is a very minor impact to a fairly low-quality wetland. So, it's our opinion that the project is in the public interest. And because of the low impacts, and because it is in the project public interest, because they've done a good job of minimizing and avoiding wetlands to the greatest extent possible,

  16. feature setback impacts the plan again is to plant the bioretention basin with native wetland seed and to provide invasive species control in the nature in the natural feature setbacks one thing that we did requires that they provide this plan prior to beginning construction so one other issue we had with the site plan towards the end of the review process was that their soil erosion sediment control plan wasn't showing that it was protecting all the natural feature setbacks in wetland areas and again they made changes to the plans as we asked them to do and so all the natural features including the wetlands are being protected now So, essentially the wetland impact area, wetland B, that linear ditch, is a, like we said, kind of a pretty low-quality wetland feature. It doesn't provide much function or value. It's a man-made ditch. So, and the impact area is 0.009 acres. So, this is a very minor impact to a fairly low-quality wetland. So, it's our opinion that the project is in the public interest. And because of the low impacts, and because it is in the project public interest, because they've done a good job of minimizing and avoiding wetlands to the greatest extent possible, Niswander Environmental is recommending that the wetland board approve this project from a wetlands perspective. And it should be noted that the applicant needs to deal with wetlands B and C with EGLE to determine if EGLE's going to regulate those. And if they do regulate wetlands B and C, the applicant is also going to need a permit from the state of Michigan. So, that's about all I have. If anybody has any questions. We'll bring it here. Okay. Sure. Anybody on the commission have any questions? Gotcha. I have one. Sure. Is there a difference between, you know, you show the one, two, three, four, five impacts, but one, only one is really a disruption. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. something to be built on it the others are is there a different impact and disruption or I know what the word you want to use so these are for the natural feature setback so I should have mentioned earlier that these these wetland lines here the interior line is the actual wetland so where my cursor is

  17. And because of the low impacts, and because it is in the project public interest, because they've done a good job of minimizing and avoiding wetlands to the greatest extent possible, Niswander Environmental is recommending that the wetland board approve this project from a wetlands perspective. And it should be noted that the applicant needs to deal with wetlands B and C with EGLE to determine if EGLE's going to regulate those. And if they do regulate wetlands B and C, the applicant is also going to need a permit from the state of Michigan. So, that's about all I have. If anybody has any questions. We'll bring it here. Okay. Sure. Anybody on the commission have any questions? Gotcha. I have one. Sure. Is there a difference between, you know, you show the one, two, three, four, five impacts, but one, only one is really a disruption. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. something to be built on it the others are is there a different impact and disruption or I know what the word you want to use so these are for the natural feature setback so I should have mentioned earlier that these these wetland lines here the interior line is the actual wetland so where my cursor is now the perimeter line is the natural features setback boundary so these five impacts are impacting the natural features the setback okay okay yeah the only I'm sorry about that the only weapon impact is right here to what would be okay okay any other questions hold on the applicant do you want to have anything to give anything you want to say about wetlands that's up there I'm sorry no wait the applicant first yeah my name is Reid Cooksey with Stonefield engineering design here representing the applicant Zach Sklar my address is 555 South Old Woodward suite 12 L Birmingham Michigan 48009 Jeff did a great presentation here really explaining kind of the the process that we've been through again we initially were impacting wetland sea entirely and then work with him and the rest of the township staff pretty diligently on shifting it in order to maintain the the health of wetland sea when ensuring that not only that we are outside of the well in itself but

  18. wetland lines here the interior line is the actual wetland so where my cursor is now the perimeter line is the natural features setback boundary so these five impacts are impacting the natural features the setback okay okay yeah the only I'm sorry about that the only weapon impact is right here to what would be okay okay any other questions hold on the applicant do you want to have anything to give anything you want to say about wetlands that's up there I'm sorry no wait the applicant first yeah my name is Reid Cooksey with Stonefield engineering design here representing the applicant Zach Sklar my address is 555 South Old Woodward suite 12 L Birmingham Michigan 48009 Jeff did a great presentation here really explaining kind of the the process that we've been through again we initially were impacting wetland sea entirely and then work with him and the rest of the township staff pretty diligently on shifting it in order to maintain the the health of wetland sea when ensuring that not only that we are outside of the well in itself but also ensuring that the drainage area to wetland sea was going to be maintained as well as raising the site as it was mentioned to not negatively impact and potentially dewater it from a subgrade perspective. So I really do appreciate Jeff's time on that. The only other color I'd add is we have started the process with EGLE. We've submitted for our pre-application meeting and had a couple conversations there. Due to the weather, it makes it a little difficult to have these on-site meetings to actually do a field investigation. We've sent over the report that Jeff provided to them and they're reviewing that currently to try to make a determination on the status of each. But as Jeff said, we're working with them and we're going to work with the township and do the proper mitigation and get all the proper permits in the end here. So with that, we're excited to continue to work with you guys and we're excited for this project. Happy to answer any questions that you guys may have. I have to ask a question. Go ahead. So that's good that you started the process with EGLE. Well, but the question that I have is if they, and Jeff's opinion is they may not even seek to have jurisdiction over them due to whatever their reason to size or, but if they do want to have jurisdiction over those wetlands, they're the ones that are not impacted.

  19. also ensuring that the drainage area to wetland sea was going to be maintained as well as raising the site as it was mentioned to not negatively impact and potentially dewater it from a subgrade perspective. So I really do appreciate Jeff's time on that. The only other color I'd add is we have started the process with EGLE. We've submitted for our pre-application meeting and had a couple conversations there. Due to the weather, it makes it a little difficult to have these on-site meetings to actually do a field investigation. We've sent over the report that Jeff provided to them and they're reviewing that currently to try to make a determination on the status of each. But as Jeff said, we're working with them and we're going to work with the township and do the proper mitigation and get all the proper permits in the end here. So with that, we're excited to continue to work with you guys and we're excited for this project. Happy to answer any questions that you guys may have. I have to ask a question. Go ahead. So that's good that you started the process with EGLE. Well, but the question that I have is if they, and Jeff's opinion is they may not even seek to have jurisdiction over them due to whatever their reason to size or, but if they do want to have jurisdiction over those wetlands, they're the ones that are not impacted. So I mean, what would possibly, what could possibly change? Not much just because the township has, you know, standards as it was mentioned that are generally above and beyond what the state would require. You know, they, they may require. some additional detail in our final mitigation report but you know we'll work with both entities for that um you know again i think the mitigation that we're proposing right now is above what the the state would require due to the quality of the the minor wetland we're impacting um but you know obviously if they require anything separate or anything different you know we'll be sure to you know work with uh both the township staff and uh and the state to to get the required permits here thank you if they if they do take jurisdiction over wetland b it will require an eagle permit to impact that even even with its small size right it might require a permit but it wouldn't prevent the site plan or the proposal to we're impacting the 25 foot environmental feature setback and the wetland that's being impacted in the driveway probably wouldn't even come under that jurisdiction so they they may require a permit but i'm thinking they're not going to twist the site plan around

  20. to have jurisdiction over those wetlands, they're the ones that are not impacted. So I mean, what would possibly, what could possibly change? Not much just because the township has, you know, standards as it was mentioned that are generally above and beyond what the state would require. You know, they, they may require. some additional detail in our final mitigation report but you know we'll work with both entities for that um you know again i think the mitigation that we're proposing right now is above what the the state would require due to the quality of the the minor wetland we're impacting um but you know obviously if they require anything separate or anything different you know we'll be sure to you know work with uh both the township staff and uh and the state to to get the required permits here thank you if they if they do take jurisdiction over wetland b it will require an eagle permit to impact that even even with its small size right it might require a permit but it wouldn't prevent the site plan or the proposal to we're impacting the 25 foot environmental feature setback and the wetland that's being impacted in the driveway probably wouldn't even come under that jurisdiction so they they may require a permit but i'm thinking they're not going to twist the site plan around i don't see no reason to no if if this was an avoidable wetland impact they may make them um come in from a different route or something but this is like i said minor and unavoidable so um i don't see eagle doing that yeah anybody else have any questions okay now now it's your turn um here's the ground rules um here's the ground rules um here's the ground rules um come up to the speaker form a line so we don't have to wait for everybody to come at a time need your name your address you get three minutes and please again I'm gonna say only about the wetlands forget about the site plan we'll talk about that later only about wetlands so I guess that's the so we need to have name address in three minutes hi my name is Julia Northcutt I'm a property owner at 310 North Berkshire just I'm Jeff I'm curious the nature of vernal pools do they change throughout the year yes yes so as I understand it was evaluated in June which is arguably one of the driest months in the state it was initially evaluated in June it did have standing water in it at the time when I was there I evaluated AST eyes delineation in October there's no standing water in it

  21. so they they may require a permit but i'm thinking they're not going to twist the site plan around i don't see no reason to no if if this was an avoidable wetland impact they may make them um come in from a different route or something but this is like i said minor and unavoidable so um i don't see eagle doing that yeah anybody else have any questions okay now now it's your turn um here's the ground rules um here's the ground rules um here's the ground rules um come up to the speaker form a line so we don't have to wait for everybody to come at a time need your name your address you get three minutes and please again I'm gonna say only about the wetlands forget about the site plan we'll talk about that later only about wetlands so I guess that's the so we need to have name address in three minutes hi my name is Julia Northcutt I'm a property owner at 310 North Berkshire just I'm Jeff I'm curious the nature of vernal pools do they change throughout the year yes yes so as I understand it was evaluated in June which is arguably one of the driest months in the state it was initially evaluated in June it did have standing water in it at the time when I was there I evaluated AST eyes delineation in October there's no standing water in it at that time I would be very curious as to your evaluation if you were to visit the site in November March or April because it is closer to a pond than a pool or mere wetland yeah and I strongly believe that this setback in the future itself would be expanded upon if it was taken into consideration at that time of year you mean the size of it yes no I don't think the the size of the wetland would change so we don't look at at standing water when we delineate and I don't want to speak for ASTI but I'm familiar with their work and we're all professional wetland scientists we look at soils we look at hydrology and we look at vegetation so every plant in Michigan has a wet rating so the wettest species like cattails are given a rating of obligate the driest species would be considered an upland species so when we delineate when I delineate I don't really even look at standing water I use it as as another measurement but I'm looking at vegetation first and I STI that most wetland scientists do as well so the wetland boundary is kind of where the wetland vegetation stops and the upland vegetation starts there's always you

  22. there I evaluated AST eyes delineation in October there's no standing water in it at that time I would be very curious as to your evaluation if you were to visit the site in November March or April because it is closer to a pond than a pool or mere wetland yeah and I strongly believe that this setback in the future itself would be expanded upon if it was taken into consideration at that time of year you mean the size of it yes no I don't think the the size of the wetland would change so we don't look at at standing water when we delineate and I don't want to speak for ASTI but I'm familiar with their work and we're all professional wetland scientists we look at soils we look at hydrology and we look at vegetation so every plant in Michigan has a wet rating so the wettest species like cattails are given a rating of obligate the driest species would be considered an upland species so when we delineate when I delineate I don't really even look at standing water I use it as as another measurement but I'm looking at vegetation first and I STI that most wetland scientists do as well so the wetland boundary is kind of where the wetland vegetation stops and the upland vegetation starts there's always you know a five-foot difference between that roughly and it can change over time but from from one year to the next based on rainfall it's it's not gonna change so even if it has standing water but it's surrounded by upland vegetation I wouldn't call that well and I wouldn't go by the wet by the water boundary I'd go more by the vegetation boundary okay and my understanding is further that this is all based on gravel paving which is the best of my knowledge a variance that has not yet been approved what impact do you feel that asphalt paving would have upon the existing plan can you repeat that my understanding is that all of this is based on a gravel road surface whereas that impact in wetland yes wetland B so how do you feel that would change if it was actually an asphalt I don't know enough about that to answer what about right you water studies you mean i mean my property is one that would be flooding as a result of these changes so i'm curious as to what studies and actual follow-through have been done as to the impact that the site itself and proposed itself will have on not just these lands but my property

  23. wetland vegetation stops and the upland vegetation starts there's always you know a five-foot difference between that roughly and it can change over time but from from one year to the next based on rainfall it's it's not gonna change so even if it has standing water but it's surrounded by upland vegetation I wouldn't call that well and I wouldn't go by the wet by the water boundary I'd go more by the vegetation boundary okay and my understanding is further that this is all based on gravel paving which is the best of my knowledge a variance that has not yet been approved what impact do you feel that asphalt paving would have upon the existing plan can you repeat that my understanding is that all of this is based on a gravel road surface whereas that impact in wetland yes wetland B so how do you feel that would change if it was actually an asphalt I don't know enough about that to answer what about right you water studies you mean i mean my property is one that would be flooding as a result of these changes so i'm curious as to what studies and actual follow-through have been done as to the impact that the site itself and proposed itself will have on not just these lands but my property um i don't think i can answer that's it i don't know thank you for your time okay i'm going to just say one thing i forgot to say and it's evident make your statement ask a question for sure we're going to record those questions and then we will come back and answer them after the discussion otherwise it'll take forever to get through this so i um from now on just make your statement ask any questions you have and we'll you or somebody will answer them after the the open um public comments i'm sorry oh yeah we're going to do right now will it all be passed out if we can get just like everybody else was noticed uh notified for everything that's going on just a rhetorical question all right good evening my name is brett northcott i live at 310 north berkshire uh jeff thank you for your time um uh can you quantify how many iterations have been made with the developer so far that will be answered we'll get that answer right after you finish your comments and questions okay um can you clarify what is meant by this development is in the best interest of the public which was shared in your slides well i didn't say it was in the best answer okay again okay so answer those questions yep i my comment is i don't know how you

  24. that the site itself and proposed itself will have on not just these lands but my property um i don't think i can answer that's it i don't know thank you for your time okay i'm going to just say one thing i forgot to say and it's evident make your statement ask a question for sure we're going to record those questions and then we will come back and answer them after the discussion otherwise it'll take forever to get through this so i um from now on just make your statement ask any questions you have and we'll you or somebody will answer them after the the open um public comments i'm sorry oh yeah we're going to do right now will it all be passed out if we can get just like everybody else was noticed uh notified for everything that's going on just a rhetorical question all right good evening my name is brett northcott i live at 310 north berkshire uh jeff thank you for your time um uh can you quantify how many iterations have been made with the developer so far that will be answered we'll get that answer right after you finish your comments and questions okay um can you clarify what is meant by this development is in the best interest of the public which was shared in your slides well i didn't say it was in the best answer okay again okay so answer those questions yep i my comment is i don't know how you somebody who's potentially not a resident at all would understand how it is in the best interest of people who are living in houses abutting this property in the neighborhood and in the township so i believe that part of the presentation should be removed what's really interesting so far with this presentation tonight is i'm hearing that there's been a significant amount of work with the township and the environmental consultants there's been work with eagle but there has been absolutely zero work with any residents in the township with any homeowners who are abutting this property with any neighbors in this neighborhood i find it really really interesting i've asked myself the question why would somebody who's spending millions of dollars not talk to anybody who's actually going to be impacted by this and all i can keep coming back to is that they know nobody would want this in a million years not in our neighborhood not in our backyard and not in our township it is absurd that we keep hearing about how many people have been worked with except for the people that is going to impact the most you might say that i'm frustrated i'm irritated i'm

  25. somebody who's potentially not a resident at all would understand how it is in the best interest of people who are living in houses abutting this property in the neighborhood and in the township so i believe that part of the presentation should be removed what's really interesting so far with this presentation tonight is i'm hearing that there's been a significant amount of work with the township and the environmental consultants there's been work with eagle but there has been absolutely zero work with any residents in the township with any homeowners who are abutting this property with any neighbors in this neighborhood i find it really really interesting i've asked myself the question why would somebody who's spending millions of dollars not talk to anybody who's actually going to be impacted by this and all i can keep coming back to is that they know nobody would want this in a million years not in our neighborhood not in our backyard and not in our township it is absurd that we keep hearing about how many people have been worked with except for the people that is going to impact the most you might say that i'm frustrated i'm irritated i'm disappointed i'm going to save the rest of my comments for the next part of this okay i appreciate your time thank you thank you good evening my name is John Klusniak I live at 216 North Berkshire a lot of times referred to as the Red House I want to shift the conversation away from parcels permits site plans for just a minute and back to what actually lives in the wetlands because the wetlands aren't empty space they're home the people that rely on them don't get to vote tonight they don't get to be heard every morning there's a buck big one cuts through the tree line near the wetlands big body slow steps doesn't rush unless he's pushed watch him every morning we call him iron head he beds down near the edge of the wetlands moves at first light and uses the corridor as his highway same path same pattern year after year that's not random that's habit there's also a group of turkeys that work the higher ground just off the wetlands it's a big time he's a three-year-old he's got a 12 inch beard

  26. for the people that is going to impact the most you might say that i'm frustrated i'm irritated i'm disappointed i'm going to save the rest of my comments for the next part of this okay i appreciate your time thank you thank you good evening my name is John Klusniak I live at 216 North Berkshire a lot of times referred to as the Red House I want to shift the conversation away from parcels permits site plans for just a minute and back to what actually lives in the wetlands because the wetlands aren't empty space they're home the people that rely on them don't get to vote tonight they don't get to be heard every morning there's a buck big one cuts through the tree line near the wetlands big body slow steps doesn't rush unless he's pushed watch him every morning we call him iron head he beds down near the edge of the wetlands moves at first light and uses the corridor as his highway same path same pattern year after year that's not random that's habit there's also a group of turkeys that work the higher ground just off the wetlands it's a big time he's a three-year-old he's got a 12 inch beard big spurs I call him boss Tom he struts that edge every spring and he owns he walks like he owns the place because in a way he does turkeys don't stay where they feel pressured they move when habitat gets noisy lit up or disrupted lose the quiet you'll lose the turkeys and then there's the ducks I love the ducks my kids have named the ducks we have a pair that returns season the residents know them by sight call them Fred Nethel sometimes they're in DC too by the way when I'm there they settle into the same pockets of water the same reads the same shelters from wind and predators they come back because it works because it's stable because it's protected because it hasn't been pushed out by human activity yet now it's this is what's at stake not in an abstract environmental impact not a study real wildlife real movement patterns real dependency on exact lands the deer they don't get to speak here tonight the turkeys they don't file objections the ducks they don't give

  27. the higher ground just off the wetlands it's a big time he's a three-year-old he's got a 12 inch beard big spurs I call him boss Tom he struts that edge every spring and he owns he walks like he owns the place because in a way he does turkeys don't stay where they feel pressured they move when habitat gets noisy lit up or disrupted lose the quiet you'll lose the turkeys and then there's the ducks I love the ducks my kids have named the ducks we have a pair that returns season the residents know them by sight call them Fred Nethel sometimes they're in DC too by the way when I'm there they settle into the same pockets of water the same reads the same shelters from wind and predators they come back because it works because it's stable because it's protected because it hasn't been pushed out by human activity yet now it's this is what's at stake not in an abstract environmental impact not a study real wildlife real movement patterns real dependency on exact lands the deer they don't get to speak here tonight the turkeys they don't file objections the ducks they don't give public comment but they're all part of the project and I have heard none of that addressed tonight we are here temporarily the wetlands are here before us the wetlands depend on and the wildlife depends on them and they will be here after us and if protected they're still here for a long time my recommendation protect the habitat protect the wetlands protect the rough life that's already rooted there I vote I pay taxes my recommendation is vote this down it's the wrong thing for our community thank you very much hi my name is robert mitchell robert mitchell Along with my family, Aretha, is that a, we own Fremont Street. My family has been there 70 years. Nobody's going to be impacted by this worse than me, okay, but I support this. I have, this whole area has been my playground for 61 years.

  28. tonight the turkeys they don't file objections the ducks they don't give public comment but they're all part of the project and I have heard none of that addressed tonight we are here temporarily the wetlands are here before us the wetlands depend on and the wildlife depends on them and they will be here after us and if protected they're still here for a long time my recommendation protect the habitat protect the wetlands protect the rough life that's already rooted there I vote I pay taxes my recommendation is vote this down it's the wrong thing for our community thank you very much hi my name is robert mitchell robert mitchell Along with my family, Aretha, is that a, we own Fremont Street. My family has been there 70 years. Nobody's going to be impacted by this worse than me, okay, but I support this. I have, this whole area has been my playground for 61 years. Listen, it's time for something to happen down there. It's time. Listen, don't know what, formerly a police officer and fireman, nobody keeps the vagrants out of there but me. Nobody gets the trash up from the illegal dumping but me. And I've been doing that for over 40 years myself. Well, my father and my Uncle Dan did that for the 30 years before I did it, okay. Listen, this could potentially be the best thing that happened for this area. Something needs to happen. It's going to be good for the township. Okay. But I've got two things I want to mention. I hope they deal with the wetlands. Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, wetlands be because I've been in communication with Mr. It's already been meeting by 4,002. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Speaking of everything. Lahr, his architect. Well, as be, if it is not handled properly, it will flood Fremont, at least a third of it, because the ditches come down, and you called it a Murphy Drain?

  29. Listen, it's time for something to happen down there. It's time. Listen, don't know what, formerly a police officer and fireman, nobody keeps the vagrants out of there but me. Nobody gets the trash up from the illegal dumping but me. And I've been doing that for over 40 years myself. Well, my father and my Uncle Dan did that for the 30 years before I did it, okay. Listen, this could potentially be the best thing that happened for this area. Something needs to happen. It's going to be good for the township. Okay. But I've got two things I want to mention. I hope they deal with the wetlands. Yes. Okay. Yes. Well, wetlands be because I've been in communication with Mr. It's already been meeting by 4,002. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Speaking of everything. Lahr, his architect. Well, as be, if it is not handled properly, it will flood Fremont, at least a third of it, because the ditches come down, and you called it a Murphy Drain? The Murphy Drain. That Murphy Drain, if that is not, and I do it, I've been doing it for ') the last 40 years, I have to clean that out so it can get to that southern storm drain. It's not a ditch. It's a very important ditch, especially this season, because it will flood that third of that street, and that's the only drain available for that street. I'd like to submit a letter from my attorney. You guys probably have a copy of it. You do? For the record. Thank you. Okay, great. But nobody will be impacted more than me, and I think it's a great idea. Something needs to happen down there. And I'm going to miss it. I've been feeding a deer for all my light. I have names for them too, but something needs to happen over there. Thank you very much. Hi, Greg Utubo, 127 South Berkshire. I was here last week to talk a little bit, and I actually had the pleasure of speaking with Mr. Sklar earlier today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

  30. at least a third of it, because the ditches come down, and you called it a Murphy Drain? The Murphy Drain. That Murphy Drain, if that is not, and I do it, I've been doing it for ') the last 40 years, I have to clean that out so it can get to that southern storm drain. It's not a ditch. It's a very important ditch, especially this season, because it will flood that third of that street, and that's the only drain available for that street. I'd like to submit a letter from my attorney. You guys probably have a copy of it. You do? For the record. Thank you. Okay, great. But nobody will be impacted more than me, and I think it's a great idea. Something needs to happen down there. And I'm going to miss it. I've been feeding a deer for all my light. I have names for them too, but something needs to happen over there. Thank you very much. Hi, Greg Utubo, 127 South Berkshire. I was here last week to talk a little bit, and I actually had the pleasure of speaking with Mr. Sklar earlier today. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I actually spoke with him and asked permission to explain part of our conversation to the board, because I think it is important to reiterate the conversation we're having. If I need you to give me that permission, if any time I misrepresent anything, please, please let me know. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was supposed to liaison with the township for any revisions to anything, that the township is acting as liaison, specifically Ms. Bibby and Jeff on the wetlands. I was specifically told that the township is who placed it 300 feet south of a previous location to put it right next to John Schaefer's address and the north cut. So I guess that is a question I'd like to ask you, is if you're requiring it to be 300 feet south from a previous location. Again, we'll answer the question. Understood, but that's my stated question. Another question I would have is in your wetlands delineation and your explanation, which was excellent. If I'm correct on the numbers, G and H are not regulated by EGLE, but only regulated by the township, and if you're requiring the entire development to move south 300 feet or an entire football field to literally abut by our neighbors, are we choosing an unregulated wetland to uninterrupt and turn to erupt the lives of our neighbors on Berkshire?

  31. And I actually spoke with him and asked permission to explain part of our conversation to the board, because I think it is important to reiterate the conversation we're having. If I need you to give me that permission, if any time I misrepresent anything, please, please let me know. I was told in no uncertain terms that I was supposed to liaison with the township for any revisions to anything, that the township is acting as liaison, specifically Ms. Bibby and Jeff on the wetlands. I was specifically told that the township is who placed it 300 feet south of a previous location to put it right next to John Schaefer's address and the north cut. So I guess that is a question I'd like to ask you, is if you're requiring it to be 300 feet south from a previous location. Again, we'll answer the question. Understood, but that's my stated question. Another question I would have is in your wetlands delineation and your explanation, which was excellent. If I'm correct on the numbers, G and H are not regulated by EGLE, but only regulated by the township, and if you're requiring the entire development to move south 300 feet or an entire football field to literally abut by our neighbors, are we choosing an unregulated wetland to uninterrupt and turn to erupt the lives of our neighbors on Berkshire? That's, and again, I understand you don't have to answer that now, but that is my question, is through the seven iterations that I was told that cost thousands of dollars, at what point did we consider? the property on Berkshire at what point did we consider again I don't know enough about what lands to comment on what's necessary or not I think it's all important right but at some point the livelihood of the residents has to take over for an unregulated wetland that as you said is dry and full of evasive species if I'm if I'm quoting you correct I didn't see anywhere in there did you address how the neighbors are going to be affected by this development and most importantly and if I'm correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Sklar I was told that you guys told him he had to move it 300 feet south and he would love to move it 300 feet north which would be 300 feet further away from our our property lines that having instead that being told to me today me conveying that to members of the township and me being here today I would ask that you hold this vote because if I'm being told by by a developer that the wetlands development the wetlands board

  32. are we choosing an unregulated wetland to uninterrupt and turn to erupt the lives of our neighbors on Berkshire? That's, and again, I understand you don't have to answer that now, but that is my question, is through the seven iterations that I was told that cost thousands of dollars, at what point did we consider? the property on Berkshire at what point did we consider again I don't know enough about what lands to comment on what's necessary or not I think it's all important right but at some point the livelihood of the residents has to take over for an unregulated wetland that as you said is dry and full of evasive species if I'm if I'm quoting you correct I didn't see anywhere in there did you address how the neighbors are going to be affected by this development and most importantly and if I'm correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Sklar I was told that you guys told him he had to move it 300 feet south and he would love to move it 300 feet north which would be 300 feet further away from our our property lines that having instead that being told to me today me conveying that to members of the township and me being here today I would ask that you hold this vote because if I'm being told by by a developer that the wetlands development the wetlands board is making it so that our property line is eternally affected by a development that could move 300 feet but for your ascent I think this should be table until that is fully vetted thank you thank you very much anybody else would like to speak if you would form a line we can move a little quicker Chris Northcross 168 Astorwood Pontiac Michigan you you you Thank you. I'm just trying to connect the dots. I know there are some assumptions. I think one person already alluded to the assumption of gravel, gravel roads, gravel pavement. The question is, as we make these different changes, what happens to the folks that are downstream of that flow? Will we be seeing some type of flooding, increased flooding? I think that was already one question, along what used to be First Street. Does that also mean that we see some other problems elsewhere? Thank you very much.

  33. I'm being told by by a developer that the wetlands development the wetlands board is making it so that our property line is eternally affected by a development that could move 300 feet but for your ascent I think this should be table until that is fully vetted thank you thank you very much anybody else would like to speak if you would form a line we can move a little quicker Chris Northcross 168 Astorwood Pontiac Michigan you you you Thank you. I'm just trying to connect the dots. I know there are some assumptions. I think one person already alluded to the assumption of gravel, gravel roads, gravel pavement. The question is, as we make these different changes, what happens to the folks that are downstream of that flow? Will we be seeing some type of flooding, increased flooding? I think that was already one question, along what used to be First Street. Does that also mean that we see some other problems elsewhere? Thank you very much. I was hoping somebody else would ask this question. I'm Lynn Wethi. I live at 125 North Berkshire. Looking at the diagram, the vernal pond that's there, will it not be totally surrounded by pavement and parking? Yes. And how will that? That's why I was hoping somebody would ask this question. Directly to the board, please. He's our consultant. How? We'll answer the question. But he's the. That's my question, I guess. Okay. What the lifeline of that vernal pond, that's an important water, how is that impacted being totally surrounded by pavement? We'll get you the answer. Thank you. I hope. All right. I don't see anybody else running up. So I'm going to close the public. to comment for this again we'll be talking about more you have more opportunities questions that were raised the first gentleman so you have them I think you have them one at a time and see if we can answer if not we'll get back to them with an answer but I'm sure we can get answers right now

  34. I was hoping somebody else would ask this question. I'm Lynn Wethi. I live at 125 North Berkshire. Looking at the diagram, the vernal pond that's there, will it not be totally surrounded by pavement and parking? Yes. And how will that? That's why I was hoping somebody would ask this question. Directly to the board, please. He's our consultant. How? We'll answer the question. But he's the. That's my question, I guess. Okay. What the lifeline of that vernal pond, that's an important water, how is that impacted being totally surrounded by pavement? We'll get you the answer. Thank you. I hope. All right. I don't see anybody else running up. So I'm going to close the public. to comment for this again we'll be talking about more you have more opportunities questions that were raised the first gentleman so you have them I think you have them one at a time and see if we can answer if not we'll get back to them with an answer but I'm sure we can get answers right now okay so there was a question about the asphalt versus gravel driveway and parking lots there was a question about rainwater on runoff yeah just go ahead start with the first question the difference between the asphalt versus gravel driveway and parking lots okay I don't have much to comment on that as it pertains to the wetlands as a great I'm not an engineer I'm tasked with looking at the wetlands so you know generally gravel is more pervious than asphalt so but I don't know if if they looked at an asphalt versus gravel versus pervious pavements I don't know and there were various questions about well yeah we're answering questions yeah absolutely so the answer yeah so regarding the the hydrology of it all one of the items that we presented was the that we're not changing the overall

  35. okay so there was a question about the asphalt versus gravel driveway and parking lots there was a question about rainwater on runoff yeah just go ahead start with the first question the difference between the asphalt versus gravel driveway and parking lots okay I don't have much to comment on that as it pertains to the wetlands as a great I'm not an engineer I'm tasked with looking at the wetlands so you know generally gravel is more pervious than asphalt so but I don't know if if they looked at an asphalt versus gravel versus pervious pavements I don't know and there were various questions about well yeah we're answering questions yeah absolutely so the answer yeah so regarding the the hydrology of it all one of the items that we presented was the that we're not changing the overall drainage area to the wetland which would have the dictating calculation for the amount of volume going there asphalt versus gravel would really just change our time of concentration and the drainage area is so large that the time of concentration would be very minimal minimally impacted as well as most of the rain runoff in that area is going to the buyer retention first which will allow it to have a chance to infiltrate into the ground before discharging into the well in itself at a standard release rate so no there should not be any changes regarding the material to between asphalt and gravel the the gravel really is more for the aesthetic more natural look that we're going for here as opposed to a you know asphalt field and it's one of the variants we're seeking and we'll get to that next what next one questions related to rainwater runoff affecting neighboring properties well again go ahead but that's not all right go ahead yeah it's not wet so i it's not wet so yeah

  36. one of the items that we presented was the that we're not changing the overall drainage area to the wetland which would have the dictating calculation for the amount of volume going there asphalt versus gravel would really just change our time of concentration and the drainage area is so large that the time of concentration would be very minimal minimally impacted as well as most of the rain runoff in that area is going to the buyer retention first which will allow it to have a chance to infiltrate into the ground before discharging into the well in itself at a standard release rate so no there should not be any changes regarding the material to between asphalt and gravel the the gravel really is more for the aesthetic more natural look that we're going for here as opposed to a you know asphalt field and it's one of the variants we're seeking and we'll get to that next what next one questions related to rainwater runoff affecting neighboring properties well again go ahead but that's not all right go ahead yeah it's not wet so i it's not wet so yeah Similar answer, we're maintaining the existing drainage patterns on the site to the different wetlands, especially Wetland C, which is the wetland of concern here with health. So no, there will not be any impacts to downstream properties as it was determined that Wetland C and Wetland B, the two wetlands that are going to be the most impacted with the development here, connect directly to the Murphy Drain, which is a 60-inch drain, 20 feet underground. No, no, no, no, because he's the one that, I know, he has the answer, no, all right. I'm actually just the engineer, I'm not the developer. He's got an answer, we want to hear it. If you don't like the answer, okay, we'll get more on the drainage runoffs, we'll talk about the site with the buildings and the parking lot and all that other thing later. We're looking at just the wetlands. Absolutely. Okay, next question. There was a discussion about one of the wetlands ponds and how that would be impacted by the developments. I believe it was the vernal wetlands. Wetland C. Right. That was your question, I believe, ma'am. Yes. Your question about wetland C and the vernal feature.

  37. Similar answer, we're maintaining the existing drainage patterns on the site to the different wetlands, especially Wetland C, which is the wetland of concern here with health. So no, there will not be any impacts to downstream properties as it was determined that Wetland C and Wetland B, the two wetlands that are going to be the most impacted with the development here, connect directly to the Murphy Drain, which is a 60-inch drain, 20 feet underground. No, no, no, no, because he's the one that, I know, he has the answer, no, all right. I'm actually just the engineer, I'm not the developer. He's got an answer, we want to hear it. If you don't like the answer, okay, we'll get more on the drainage runoffs, we'll talk about the site with the buildings and the parking lot and all that other thing later. We're looking at just the wetlands. Absolutely. Okay, next question. There was a discussion about one of the wetlands ponds and how that would be impacted by the developments. I believe it was the vernal wetlands. Wetland C. Right. That was your question, I believe, ma'am. Yes. Your question about wetland C and the vernal feature. That it's totally surrounded by the development itself and surrounded by pavement or gravel or whatever. What's that lifeline of that? Well I don't know if it'll change too much because as he explained the drainage the surrounding drainage of it which we call a mini watershed is not changing the the the topography of the site isn't changing too much so all the water is being funneled into a bioretention basin prior to being discharged into wetland sea where most of it will infiltrate through the ground system naturally over time well no no no no more questions question next question from you there are questions about processes on the township side when it came to iterations and reviews with the consultants developer I can speak to this I've been at the township for 13 years and never the township does have the right and authority to meet with property owners whether it's a commercial application whether it's a private property frequently we oftentimes meet with developers prior to making a site plan application it's called a pre-application meeting every time we've ever met with a developer we've always encouraged that developer or property owner to please meet with the adjacent neighbors

  38. Your question about wetland C and the vernal feature. That it's totally surrounded by the development itself and surrounded by pavement or gravel or whatever. What's that lifeline of that? Well I don't know if it'll change too much because as he explained the drainage the surrounding drainage of it which we call a mini watershed is not changing the the the topography of the site isn't changing too much so all the water is being funneled into a bioretention basin prior to being discharged into wetland sea where most of it will infiltrate through the ground system naturally over time well no no no no more questions question next question from you there are questions about processes on the township side when it came to iterations and reviews with the consultants developer I can speak to this I've been at the township for 13 years and never the township does have the right and authority to meet with property owners whether it's a commercial application whether it's a private property frequently we oftentimes meet with developers prior to making a site plan application it's called a pre-application meeting every time we've ever met with a developer we've always encouraged that developer or property owner to please meet with the adjacent neighbors no comment please. I'm sorry that you don't. Okay. Okay. Sure you do. Um, so I just want to say that there has been, um, I believe there was two reiterations that we saw. By no means does the, did the township say you need to locate the building here. Our response is going to be in regards to what's on sites. Um, and the, if the applicant was directed to relocate a building based on natural features or wetlands, that's certainly not uncommon. Um, we like to always encourage an applicant to avoid, uh, natural features impacts in, in times that they can. So if the applicant had so chosen to relocate the building to be, as to not impact significant wetlands, um,

  39. the township does have the right and authority to meet with property owners whether it's a commercial application whether it's a private property frequently we oftentimes meet with developers prior to making a site plan application it's called a pre-application meeting every time we've ever met with a developer we've always encouraged that developer or property owner to please meet with the adjacent neighbors no comment please. I'm sorry that you don't. Okay. Okay. Sure you do. Um, so I just want to say that there has been, um, I believe there was two reiterations that we saw. By no means does the, did the township say you need to locate the building here. Our response is going to be in regards to what's on sites. Um, and the, if the applicant was directed to relocate a building based on natural features or wetlands, that's certainly not uncommon. Um, we like to always encourage an applicant to avoid, uh, natural features impacts in, in times that they can. So if the applicant had so chosen to relocate the building to be, as to not impact significant wetlands, um, that, those are decisions that are made on behalf of his team and that are then culminated into a site plan application. Once a site plan application is submitted to, uh, building in, our planning building ordinance department, that is a public record. It's a public information. Um, and, uh, again, that's our process. I'm sharing with you what I experienced. Um, if you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them. Okay. Next question. There was a question from an individual from 127 South Berkshire about, um, when was the Berkshire property, uh, considered when it came to the 300 Foots. uh setback if i'm rephrasing andrea you want to add to that one um so again as part of the public process in accordance with the michigan planning enabling act which we are what we do in the planning world is um delegated and we do have responsibilities and obligation to the michigan zoning enabling act as part of that requirement um prior to having a public hearing which is the purpose of a public hearing is for the board to be able to take public input hear from the

  40. had so chosen to relocate the building to be, as to not impact significant wetlands, um, that, those are decisions that are made on behalf of his team and that are then culminated into a site plan application. Once a site plan application is submitted to, uh, building in, our planning building ordinance department, that is a public record. It's a public information. Um, and, uh, again, that's our process. I'm sharing with you what I experienced. Um, if you have any other questions, I'll be happy to answer them. Okay. Next question. There was a question from an individual from 127 South Berkshire about, um, when was the Berkshire property, uh, considered when it came to the 300 Foots. uh setback if i'm rephrasing andrea you want to add to that one um so again as part of the public process in accordance with the michigan planning enabling act which we are what we do in the planning world is um delegated and we do have responsibilities and obligation to the michigan zoning enabling act as part of that requirement um prior to having a public hearing which is the purpose of a public hearing is for the board to be able to take public input hear from the applicant and there could very well be reiterations or changes based on public input that is why the planning process actually exists is that you can have the opportunity to have a public hearing and in the according to michigan zoning enabling act you're required to send proper notification to every property owner within 300 feet from the outermost point of every parcel involved the townships um over the years i've been here it's always been 500 feet they go above and beyond that legal requirement um so that is the townships practice um notices were mailed out to everywhere within 500 feet of the subject parcels in accordance with the with state law okay next next question i have is what about the project is the best interest of the community well that's again relating to the wetlands only not the is you yes Lighting of the site arrangement just the wetlands Okay, yeah That's something we look at when we're determining whether or not to recommend approval of it We look at to see if the applicant has minimized and avoided wetlands first and foremost

  41. the purpose of a public hearing is for the board to be able to take public input hear from the applicant and there could very well be reiterations or changes based on public input that is why the planning process actually exists is that you can have the opportunity to have a public hearing and in the according to michigan zoning enabling act you're required to send proper notification to every property owner within 300 feet from the outermost point of every parcel involved the townships um over the years i've been here it's always been 500 feet they go above and beyond that legal requirement um so that is the townships practice um notices were mailed out to everywhere within 500 feet of the subject parcels in accordance with the with state law okay next next question i have is what about the project is the best interest of the community well that's again relating to the wetlands only not the is you yes Lighting of the site arrangement just the wetlands Okay, yeah That's something we look at when we're determining whether or not to recommend approval of it We look at to see if the applicant has minimized and avoided wetlands first and foremost we look to see if it's in the Public interest which this project is I realize that many and by the way, I have no opinion whatsoever I am an individual consultant. I don't live in Bloomfield Township. I'm here to look at the wetlands So I have no opinion if this project goes through or not so But in in terms of the You know, we're not looking for public support necessarily We're looking is if if this has public interest and it certainly does No, no, it's it's it's not it's it's not really an opinion. It's it's It's not something similar to a landmine or a sludge field or a mulch facility Composting facility something like that This isn't something that that is Naturally detrimental to the environment So they've shown that they've reduced the impacts and minimize the impacts to the greatest extent possible Which we asked them to do and that's why we nice wonder environmental is recommending approval Okay, no No, no No

  42. We look at to see if the applicant has minimized and avoided wetlands first and foremost we look to see if it's in the Public interest which this project is I realize that many and by the way, I have no opinion whatsoever I am an individual consultant. I don't live in Bloomfield Township. I'm here to look at the wetlands So I have no opinion if this project goes through or not so But in in terms of the You know, we're not looking for public support necessarily We're looking is if if this has public interest and it certainly does No, no, it's it's it's not it's it's not really an opinion. It's it's It's not something similar to a landmine or a sludge field or a mulch facility Composting facility something like that This isn't something that that is Naturally detrimental to the environment So they've shown that they've reduced the impacts and minimize the impacts to the greatest extent possible Which we asked them to do and that's why we nice wonder environmental is recommending approval Okay, no No, no No questions no questions from the audience no it wasn't you've got you've got full three minutes I know that was you asked him questions and he answered them and you have the next question please last one pertains to addressing animal life protection okay what what about it they are that I mean there's there's no doubt there's a lot of wildlife on the property I saw the dirt the deer the turkey I saw Fox I saw a coyote scat there's reptiles and amphibians that are on site but again in dealing with the wetlands only they're avoiding all but point zero zero nine acres of wetland on the property that's what I'm looking at okay there any more questions okay I do have something came up that I wanted to ask and I'm not again only pertaining to wetlands not the rest of it with regard to wetlands I'd like to know if the applicant met with I said that he that you never met with him at

  43. questions no questions from the audience no it wasn't you've got you've got full three minutes I know that was you asked him questions and he answered them and you have the next question please last one pertains to addressing animal life protection okay what what about it they are that I mean there's there's no doubt there's a lot of wildlife on the property I saw the dirt the deer the turkey I saw Fox I saw a coyote scat there's reptiles and amphibians that are on site but again in dealing with the wetlands only they're avoiding all but point zero zero nine acres of wetland on the property that's what I'm looking at okay there any more questions okay I do have something came up that I wanted to ask and I'm not again only pertaining to wetlands not the rest of it with regard to wetlands I'd like to know if the applicant met with I said that he that you never met with him at all with regard to wetlands did you meet with any of the homeowners and discuss the wetlands me I'm asking him not you I'm just engineer I did not meet with any of the residents. Anybody here from your group that can answer that question? Yes or no? We conducted a neighborhood, again Jeff Klatt, Krieger Klatt Architects, 400 East Lincoln, Royal Oak, we did conduct a neighborhood meeting. It's in my slide presentation, the exact date, I don't have it handy on me, but we did conduct a neighborhood meeting. The question was, did you meet with homeowners with regard to the wetlands? Again, the neighbors were notified to the township, we received addresses, we then sent out postcards to those neighbors affected by the project. We conducted a zoom call to meet with the residents to discuss this, that is what we did. Okay. We discussed how we impacted the wetlands, these various things. So yes, it was more about the project holistically versus just a wetland discussion. Okay, well that's what we're talking about right now. Okay, so you contacted them, but it doesn't necessarily say that you actually sat down with the group, homeowners association, and have a discussion. Is that correct?

  44. know if the applicant met with I said that he that you never met with him at all with regard to wetlands did you meet with any of the homeowners and discuss the wetlands me I'm asking him not you I'm just engineer I did not meet with any of the residents. Anybody here from your group that can answer that question? Yes or no? We conducted a neighborhood, again Jeff Klatt, Krieger Klatt Architects, 400 East Lincoln, Royal Oak, we did conduct a neighborhood meeting. It's in my slide presentation, the exact date, I don't have it handy on me, but we did conduct a neighborhood meeting. The question was, did you meet with homeowners with regard to the wetlands? Again, the neighbors were notified to the township, we received addresses, we then sent out postcards to those neighbors affected by the project. We conducted a zoom call to meet with the residents to discuss this, that is what we did. Okay. We discussed how we impacted the wetlands, these various things. So yes, it was more about the project holistically versus just a wetland discussion. Okay, well that's what we're talking about right now. Okay, so you contacted them, but it doesn't necessarily say that you actually sat down with the group, homeowners association, and have a discussion. Is that correct? This was two weeks ago. Please, let him answer the question I asked. Sorry, I did not disrupt you. One second, please. We had, we discussed the project in general. We introduced the project, like we have tonight. We had a slideshow, a presentation, where we rolled out what we were doing, how we were impacting the site, and what we did. What the goals are for the project, what it is, and what we're doing. Simply, that's all it was. An introduction to the project. You know what you're doing right now. I like to admit that right here with your lockdown, let me do well. Thank you. we fielded questions we did our best to answer them there's concerns but again with the wetlands we we just simply discussed how our project was going to nestle and work around those in a careful way in conjunction with our wetlands expert in the township if you folks have any other comment about that part of it when it comes to the site plan again you can bring that up again yes i have one more approximately how many residents were on this zoom call regarding the wetlands part i don't know offhand um more than 5 15 20 give or take okay well that's pretty close okay uh the other question that i had and maybe andrea maybe you can answer this one i'm not sure um the comment was made

  45. Okay, well that's what we're talking about right now. Okay, so you contacted them, but it doesn't necessarily say that you actually sat down with the group, homeowners association, and have a discussion. Is that correct? This was two weeks ago. Please, let him answer the question I asked. Sorry, I did not disrupt you. One second, please. We had, we discussed the project in general. We introduced the project, like we have tonight. We had a slideshow, a presentation, where we rolled out what we were doing, how we were impacting the site, and what we did. What the goals are for the project, what it is, and what we're doing. Simply, that's all it was. An introduction to the project. You know what you're doing right now. I like to admit that right here with your lockdown, let me do well. Thank you. we fielded questions we did our best to answer them there's concerns but again with the wetlands we we just simply discussed how our project was going to nestle and work around those in a careful way in conjunction with our wetlands expert in the township if you folks have any other comment about that part of it when it comes to the site plan again you can bring that up again yes i have one more approximately how many residents were on this zoom call regarding the wetlands part i don't know offhand um more than 5 15 20 give or take okay well that's pretty close okay uh the other question that i had and maybe andrea maybe you can answer this one i'm not sure um the comment was made that we the township forced the project to be moved south so it wouldn't impact the wetlands can you can you elaborate that did we actually tell them to move it or was that a choice that they made it was a decision that was made by the developer based on the wetlands that were on site of based on conversations that were had between environmental engineering services based on their review internally based on uh niswander's review of what was on site the applicant's intention to relocate that was to avoid impacts to wetlands that's that's all i can speak of there was that's that's what i can speak to that's what i'm aware of that's the conversation i had okay so what you're saying you So we didn't say, no, you didn't say, move it, or we're not even going to consider it. Move it there. You just said, it's up here. He could have kept it there, but it also would have probably resulted in a lot more wetland. And the other concern was the fact that that was the verneal pool, which was the most highly sensitive. So I would think it would be the best interest of the township and the board to have the planning staff want developers to consider thoughtfully where they're going to locate a building as to not impact natural features.

  46. question that i had and maybe andrea maybe you can answer this one i'm not sure um the comment was made that we the township forced the project to be moved south so it wouldn't impact the wetlands can you can you elaborate that did we actually tell them to move it or was that a choice that they made it was a decision that was made by the developer based on the wetlands that were on site of based on conversations that were had between environmental engineering services based on their review internally based on uh niswander's review of what was on site the applicant's intention to relocate that was to avoid impacts to wetlands that's that's all i can speak of there was that's that's what i can speak to that's what i'm aware of that's the conversation i had okay so what you're saying you So we didn't say, no, you didn't say, move it, or we're not even going to consider it. Move it there. You just said, it's up here. He could have kept it there, but it also would have probably resulted in a lot more wetland. And the other concern was the fact that that was the verneal pool, which was the most highly sensitive. So I would think it would be the best interest of the township and the board to have the planning staff want developers to consider thoughtfully where they're going to locate a building as to not impact natural features. But we didn't force them. Okay. Got it. Okay, now we're coming back to the, we're done with the public comment for this. You'll have another opportunity. It doesn't matter. No. Public comment is over. Next. What question was that? I asked two questions. One, I just got an answer from this video, which I appreciate. Mr. Schlar's here. You don't need his higher hands. He's here. He didn't answer a question about the phone call he was on. We had a 20-minute conversation on that phone call. Wetlands was not discussed. My entire neighborhood will confirm that. Mr. Schlar will confirm that. Wetlands were not discussed. The first time I heard about Wetlands was at 4.10 p.m. So that answers my question then. Okay. Thank you. But unfortunately, you didn't get a proper answer. And it's a recorded phone call. So the Zoom was recorded. But second, and I do think this is important, is that I asked very specifically, I was told by Mr. Schlar that our... liaisons for wetlands was Miss Biggie and Jeff. I need to know if that's correct. Okay, is that correct? I represent Bloomfield Township in the planning building ordinance department. Just to clarify what my roles and responsibilities and duties are to the residents. I do, I follow the

  47. But we didn't force them. Okay. Got it. Okay, now we're coming back to the, we're done with the public comment for this. You'll have another opportunity. It doesn't matter. No. Public comment is over. Next. What question was that? I asked two questions. One, I just got an answer from this video, which I appreciate. Mr. Schlar's here. You don't need his higher hands. He's here. He didn't answer a question about the phone call he was on. We had a 20-minute conversation on that phone call. Wetlands was not discussed. My entire neighborhood will confirm that. Mr. Schlar will confirm that. Wetlands were not discussed. The first time I heard about Wetlands was at 4.10 p.m. So that answers my question then. Okay. Thank you. But unfortunately, you didn't get a proper answer. And it's a recorded phone call. So the Zoom was recorded. But second, and I do think this is important, is that I asked very specifically, I was told by Mr. Schlar that our... liaisons for wetlands was Miss Biggie and Jeff. I need to know if that's correct. Okay, is that correct? I represent Bloomfield Township in the planning building ordinance department. Just to clarify what my roles and responsibilities and duties are to the residents. I do, I follow the zoning code and I work with developers on projects that they're considering developing. I have a, I have a legal responsibility. Property owners have the legal right to pursue development on their private property. Okay, my role then as the planner is to look at our ordinance that we have on the books. I don't rewrite the ordinances. I look at the ordinances that we have on book and then I will present to the planning commission and the public how it does or does not comply with our ordinances. That is my role and responsibility. If that makes me the liaison, I guess, but I'm not the end all be all. I'm up cog in the wheel. But no, I wouldn't say that I'm a liaison to foster or develop this project. I work with internal staff of the township. I work with our consultants to culminate their reviews, have their reviews come in and then we respond to those reviews in a manner that does or does not comply with our ordinances. And then we present it to you and how it does or does not comply. I think there's a, I'm trying to make a very clear expert.

  48. clarify what my roles and responsibilities and duties are to the residents. I do, I follow the zoning code and I work with developers on projects that they're considering developing. I have a, I have a legal responsibility. Property owners have the legal right to pursue development on their private property. Okay, my role then as the planner is to look at our ordinance that we have on the books. I don't rewrite the ordinances. I look at the ordinances that we have on book and then I will present to the planning commission and the public how it does or does not comply with our ordinances. That is my role and responsibility. If that makes me the liaison, I guess, but I'm not the end all be all. I'm up cog in the wheel. But no, I wouldn't say that I'm a liaison to foster or develop this project. I work with internal staff of the township. I work with our consultants to culminate their reviews, have their reviews come in and then we respond to those reviews in a manner that does or does not comply with our ordinances. And then we present it to you and how it does or does not comply. I think there's a, I'm trying to make a very clear expert. of what my role is because this is not emotional for me either I do not have any skin in the game if you will I'm here to operate on behalf of the township to present you what has been presented to my department you may be and you Jeff you're the contact from the public or the or the developer you're the contact at the township for the people to that someone can talk to and in contact a hundred percent okay okay contact correct one hundred percent I am the person that if you have a question about a land use development coming to the township you contact our department that is absolutely correct well mr. chairperson it's very important I was told at 4 10 p.m. that all of this done and then I'm supposed to contact these two people to and I quote get me the right to move my property back 300 feet north because I was told they had to move it by our property line because of the wetlands well I just asked her that and she said you weren't required to that okay you know what I'm cutting it off right now I'm cutting off we're coming back to the Commission anybody here have any comments anything I don't I've asked my questions I got when I need all

  49. of what my role is because this is not emotional for me either I do not have any skin in the game if you will I'm here to operate on behalf of the township to present you what has been presented to my department you may be and you Jeff you're the contact from the public or the or the developer you're the contact at the township for the people to that someone can talk to and in contact a hundred percent okay okay contact correct one hundred percent I am the person that if you have a question about a land use development coming to the township you contact our department that is absolutely correct well mr. chairperson it's very important I was told at 4 10 p.m. that all of this done and then I'm supposed to contact these two people to and I quote get me the right to move my property back 300 feet north because I was told they had to move it by our property line because of the wetlands well I just asked her that and she said you weren't required to that okay you know what I'm cutting it off right now I'm cutting off we're coming back to the Commission anybody here have any comments anything I don't I've asked my questions I got when I need all right so what's your pleasure what do you want to do what our choices are do we have three choices we we can say it's we don't want to continue it we can say we want to we want to approve it and send it up to the board of trustees or if we want to we can table it and we can so we can either get any more information or um pursue other avenues or whatever those are our three choices so i mean we're dealing with just the wetlands just the wetlands had nothing to do with the project just that one little piece okay yes just the wetlands just we need to make that very clear sorry was it i think it's important to make that very clear oh yeah we're we're uh contemplating the impact on the wetlands on this property and you know according to our township you know consultants it's been minimized the wetland impact has been minimized just just the wetland nothing to do with the rest project okay so no i agree with you i think the uh it's it's minimal impact on the wetlands

  50. have any comments anything I don't I've asked my questions I got when I need all right so what's your pleasure what do you want to do what our choices are do we have three choices we we can say it's we don't want to continue it we can say we want to we want to approve it and send it up to the board of trustees or if we want to we can table it and we can so we can either get any more information or um pursue other avenues or whatever those are our three choices so i mean we're dealing with just the wetlands just the wetlands had nothing to do with the project just that one little piece okay yes just the wetlands just we need to make that very clear sorry was it i think it's important to make that very clear oh yeah we're we're uh contemplating the impact on the wetlands on this property and you know according to our township you know consultants it's been minimized the wetland impact has been minimized just just the wetland nothing to do with the rest project okay so no i agree with you i think the uh it's it's minimal impact on the wetlands and on that property and looking at the wetlands itself as far as the what's presented to us um i i would recommend that we give approval for the permit just for the wetlands which is separate from the site plan uh based on the uh um based on the considerations that have been presented moved supported any comment that motion all right i'll call for a vote all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed all right so just that portion of it just that wetlands portion we we approve going to the board of trustees to get a permit for that okay next item on the agenda is um the text amendment to the zoning ordinance for banquet halls oh what oh yeah i closed the wetland yeah look and lance is closed right i'll just close that portion and now we'll move on now we'll open up excuse me sorry about that we'll open up the um planning commission meeting and again i'm sorry we got to go back to dean again we have a we have a forum and we have minutes from the last meeting any any objective any any comments i i there's one that i had um andrea's name was not on me they need to

  51. project okay so no i agree with you i think the uh it's it's minimal impact on the wetlands and on that property and looking at the wetlands itself as far as the what's presented to us um i i would recommend that we give approval for the permit just for the wetlands which is separate from the site plan uh based on the uh um based on the considerations that have been presented moved supported any comment that motion all right i'll call for a vote all those in favor say aye aye aye any opposed all right so just that portion of it just that wetlands portion we we approve going to the board of trustees to get a permit for that okay next item on the agenda is um the text amendment to the zoning ordinance for banquet halls oh what oh yeah i closed the wetland yeah look and lance is closed right i'll just close that portion and now we'll move on now we'll open up excuse me sorry about that we'll open up the um planning commission meeting and again i'm sorry we got to go back to dean again we have a we have a forum and we have minutes from the last meeting any any objective any any comments i i there's one that i had um andrea's name was not on me they need to reflect uh my name right we have okay we got that is it okay very good uh so any any other all right but they had addition correction and make a motion that we approve second boot and second all is in favor aye any opposed okay um now here we go again with public comment now we're talking about public comment on the on only on the amend the text amendment for the zoning or no excuse me sorry i'm sorry now public comment and the planning commission for anything other than what's on the agenda my mistake i apologize so if you have something that's not on the agenda you want to talk about that deals with planning come up. All right. I'm sorry for the rest of the other. Yeah. Okay. Well then we have the presentation. Okay. Other than what's on the agenda. Okay. Go ahead. My name is Charles Renfro. I live at 243 Crestwood in Pontiac and I was curious as how close is that proposed project to Pontiac line. I know there is a street called Asterwood that's undeveloped and my property butts up against that. Okay. Well we'll answer

  52. objective any any comments i i there's one that i had um andrea's name was not on me they need to reflect uh my name right we have okay we got that is it okay very good uh so any any other all right but they had addition correction and make a motion that we approve second boot and second all is in favor aye any opposed okay um now here we go again with public comment now we're talking about public comment on the on only on the amend the text amendment for the zoning or no excuse me sorry i'm sorry now public comment and the planning commission for anything other than what's on the agenda my mistake i apologize so if you have something that's not on the agenda you want to talk about that deals with planning come up. All right. I'm sorry for the rest of the other. Yeah. Okay. Well then we have the presentation. Okay. Other than what's on the agenda. Okay. Go ahead. My name is Charles Renfro. I live at 243 Crestwood in Pontiac and I was curious as how close is that proposed project to Pontiac line. I know there is a street called Asterwood that's undeveloped and my property butts up against that. Okay. Well we'll answer that question when we get to the site plan and all that. Again if it's I want to hear any public comments for something that's not on the agenda. All right. I don't see anybody coming to the podium so we'll move on. The first item then on our agenda is the text amendment to the zoning orders for banquet halls in the research park and B3 zoning districts. Andrea. Hi. Good evening. I am here to present to the planning commission a proposal for a text amendment to our current research park district. Highlighted on your screen here you can see where our research park district is located. It is north of Square Lake Road and it is highlighted in that shade of purple which is blown up there to your left hand side. So any time we look at a text amendment to our ordinance we want to look at what provisions we currently... take a look at our current ordinance, as well as take a consideration of what the potential impact would be for a text amendment to the zoning ordinance. Interesting enough, within our zoning ordinance, we actually have criteria under 42-4.29 as

  53. undeveloped and my property butts up against that. Okay. Well we'll answer that question when we get to the site plan and all that. Again if it's I want to hear any public comments for something that's not on the agenda. All right. I don't see anybody coming to the podium so we'll move on. The first item then on our agenda is the text amendment to the zoning orders for banquet halls in the research park and B3 zoning districts. Andrea. Hi. Good evening. I am here to present to the planning commission a proposal for a text amendment to our current research park district. Highlighted on your screen here you can see where our research park district is located. It is north of Square Lake Road and it is highlighted in that shade of purple which is blown up there to your left hand side. So any time we look at a text amendment to our ordinance we want to look at what provisions we currently... take a look at our current ordinance, as well as take a consideration of what the potential impact would be for a text amendment to the zoning ordinance. Interesting enough, within our zoning ordinance, we actually have criteria under 42-4.29 as it relates to banquet halls. However, within our zoning ordinance itself, the only zoning classification, if you will, in which a banquet hall is noted to be permitted as a special land use, is actually within our B-4 classification. B-4 is a zoning classification that essentially covers all of Telegraph Road. It doesn't identify particular parcels. It indicates that along the Telegraph Road corridor would be a suitable location for that type of use. Other than that, there's no other zoning districts that have banquet halls specifically called out as a use. So what we did when this was first brought to our attention is we reached out to Giffels-Webster, who is our planning consultant, and they took a look at our zoning ordinance. And one thing that we're going to look at when we look at any text amendment or zoning amendment is what is the current use of that district currently. And by introducing this new use in this instance.

  54. Interesting enough, within our zoning ordinance, we actually have criteria under 42-4.29 as it relates to banquet halls. However, within our zoning ordinance itself, the only zoning classification, if you will, in which a banquet hall is noted to be permitted as a special land use, is actually within our B-4 classification. B-4 is a zoning classification that essentially covers all of Telegraph Road. It doesn't identify particular parcels. It indicates that along the Telegraph Road corridor would be a suitable location for that type of use. Other than that, there's no other zoning districts that have banquet halls specifically called out as a use. So what we did when this was first brought to our attention is we reached out to Giffels-Webster, who is our planning consultant, and they took a look at our zoning ordinance. And one thing that we're going to look at when we look at any text amendment or zoning amendment is what is the current use of that district currently. And by introducing this new use in this instance. the suggested new use under the special land use category on the right-hand side would be a banquet facility. Looking at the current uses that are already proposed, and these have been within our zoning ordinance, again, as long as, you know, for many, many years of these uses. So these are not newly introduced uses allowed in Research Park. They may not have come into fruition, or maybe there's not a development under these uses, but just pointing out that currently on your screen is the way that our Research Park District reads. So within the Research Park District, under special land use classification, and just so the members of the public and the board understands the difference between the left-hand side, which is permitted by right, there is the right-hand category, which is a special land use. Special land uses require our uses that have like a higher level of review and are categorized to be a little bit more sensitive, if you will, to the adjoining neighbors. So that's why we would recommend that if the board were to consider adopting banquet halls as a use within Research Park,

  55. the suggested new use under the special land use category on the right-hand side would be a banquet facility. Looking at the current uses that are already proposed, and these have been within our zoning ordinance, again, as long as, you know, for many, many years of these uses. So these are not newly introduced uses allowed in Research Park. They may not have come into fruition, or maybe there's not a development under these uses, but just pointing out that currently on your screen is the way that our Research Park District reads. So within the Research Park District, under special land use classification, and just so the members of the public and the board understands the difference between the left-hand side, which is permitted by right, there is the right-hand category, which is a special land use. Special land uses require our uses that have like a higher level of review and are categorized to be a little bit more sensitive, if you will, to the adjoining neighbors. So that's why we would recommend that if the board were to consider adopting banquet halls as a use within Research Park, that it would be under that category of a special land use. That gives the board the ability to add on specific conditions related to that use. So just pointing out that the current uses are... within the special land use so again these may not currently occur but these are uses that would be permitted if a property became available if a developer was interested and owned a property and wanted to develop they would be able to consider a number one it's a restaurant a restaurant or other places serving food or beverage except those having the character of an open front or drive-in which would be kind of like a what's the drive-through sonic that's what we consider an open-ended restaurant so already within the special land use category the research park would allow for a restaurant I think we're all familiar with what a restaurant is oftentimes we don't have throughout the township I think we all know what what a restaurant is a new car sales agency a fully enclosed industrial operation a medical office therapy or health facility and the next one is really the one that I'm in the recommendation for

  56. as a use within Research Park, that it would be under that category of a special land use. That gives the board the ability to add on specific conditions related to that use. So just pointing out that the current uses are... within the special land use so again these may not currently occur but these are uses that would be permitted if a property became available if a developer was interested and owned a property and wanted to develop they would be able to consider a number one it's a restaurant a restaurant or other places serving food or beverage except those having the character of an open front or drive-in which would be kind of like a what's the drive-through sonic that's what we consider an open-ended restaurant so already within the special land use category the research park would allow for a restaurant I think we're all familiar with what a restaurant is oftentimes we don't have throughout the township I think we all know what what a restaurant is a new car sales agency a fully enclosed industrial operation a medical office therapy or health facility and the next one is really the one that I'm in the recommendation for the review by Giffels Webster which everybody has a copy within their packet it has the closest relation to the use of a banquet hall in the sense where it says under a special land use within research park it would be recreational uses including but not limited to sports facilities clubs recreational and community center buildings and dance and exercise students So those are, in our research, in looking at the existing uses permitted, in Giffels-Webster professional opinion, they feel that a banquet hall, in terms of use, impact, possible hours of operation, things like that, would be similar to some of the uses that are, again, this is a special land use, in which the reason they're a special land use is because there will be careful consideration, and possibly conditions that could be placed on this by the Township Board and Planning Commission, okay? So those are uses that are currently permitted, and my, in our review, Research Park, as I stated, currently in that area, we do have, it actually has become quite a, there's lots

  57. facility and the next one is really the one that I'm in the recommendation for the review by Giffels Webster which everybody has a copy within their packet it has the closest relation to the use of a banquet hall in the sense where it says under a special land use within research park it would be recreational uses including but not limited to sports facilities clubs recreational and community center buildings and dance and exercise students So those are, in our research, in looking at the existing uses permitted, in Giffels-Webster professional opinion, they feel that a banquet hall, in terms of use, impact, possible hours of operation, things like that, would be similar to some of the uses that are, again, this is a special land use, in which the reason they're a special land use is because there will be careful consideration, and possibly conditions that could be placed on this by the Township Board and Planning Commission, okay? So those are uses that are currently permitted, and my, in our review, Research Park, as I stated, currently in that area, we do have, it actually has become quite a, there's lots of uses up there that are not your nine-to-five office uses. Very recently, there was an indoor pickleball facility that was approved. There was, there's also the Detroit Skate Club, and the Bloomfield Tennis, those are sports facilities that occur, and we also have, there's other dance halls, there's a dog daycare in that area, and so we do have a group of uses that currently exist within the Research Park District. We also do, do have the B-3 General Business classification, which the consideration or mentioned in the GIFL's website. memo would be that whether or not the Planning Commission was so inclined to also consider that a banquet hall would be appropriate within the b3 but most of the discussion as you know up until now has been the impact that research Park District specifically so with that I just want to state again that any application that we would receive for banquet hall would still have to adhere to the criteria that is listed currently within our ordinance this is not new

  58. stated, currently in that area, we do have, it actually has become quite a, there's lots of uses up there that are not your nine-to-five office uses. Very recently, there was an indoor pickleball facility that was approved. There was, there's also the Detroit Skate Club, and the Bloomfield Tennis, those are sports facilities that occur, and we also have, there's other dance halls, there's a dog daycare in that area, and so we do have a group of uses that currently exist within the Research Park District. We also do, do have the B-3 General Business classification, which the consideration or mentioned in the GIFL's website. memo would be that whether or not the Planning Commission was so inclined to also consider that a banquet hall would be appropriate within the b3 but most of the discussion as you know up until now has been the impact that research Park District specifically so with that I just want to state again that any application that we would receive for banquet hall would still have to adhere to the criteria that is listed currently within our ordinance this is not new language and in in regards to banquet halls particularly there is a list of criteria that would be in is considered as part of the special land use a review and in with that I'm happy to answer any questions I know that was a rather quick overview but I'm more than happy to answer any questions that you may have in here from the public any questions from the Commission correct anybody anything just an opinion I would be willing to support a text amendment because I actually have some properties I'm not involved in this property that was subject to the discussion of the wetlands but I do have property in the research park I know the many uses that are there and I think it would be a good idea to have to have a to adopt this text amendment to allow the banquet use at this point in time i probably wouldn't support having that use in the b3 maybe maybe after we see how it works in research park district we might want to consider the b3 later that's just my opinion the other thing is i don't want to look at one single

  59. to the criteria that is listed currently within our ordinance this is not new language and in in regards to banquet halls particularly there is a list of criteria that would be in is considered as part of the special land use a review and in with that I'm happy to answer any questions I know that was a rather quick overview but I'm more than happy to answer any questions that you may have in here from the public any questions from the Commission correct anybody anything just an opinion I would be willing to support a text amendment because I actually have some properties I'm not involved in this property that was subject to the discussion of the wetlands but I do have property in the research park I know the many uses that are there and I think it would be a good idea to have to have a to adopt this text amendment to allow the banquet use at this point in time i probably wouldn't support having that use in the b3 maybe maybe after we see how it works in research park district we might want to consider the b3 later that's just my opinion the other thing is i don't want to look at one single proposal that we're going to look at maybe after this one i want to think about the uh the designation in general and i have been paying attention and there and there's some new entities not in our community obviously because we don't have the ability yet where they have banquet halls but they're of a smaller scale and i i think and this is again my opinion i don't know what my other uh planning commission members agree or not but i think that there should be a minimum size involved because i personally wouldn't want to see multiple banquet halls of a smaller size i'd rather see something that's more meaningful and they can staff it with a proper size kitchen and and run it i just think it needs to be run as a larger scale business so i would like to propose that if we make this text amendment that we have a minimum amount of square footage that would be required and i don't know exactly what that is i don't even know the of square footage i'm sure i could you

  60. later that's just my opinion the other thing is i don't want to look at one single proposal that we're going to look at maybe after this one i want to think about the uh the designation in general and i have been paying attention and there and there's some new entities not in our community obviously because we don't have the ability yet where they have banquet halls but they're of a smaller scale and i i think and this is again my opinion i don't know what my other uh planning commission members agree or not but i think that there should be a minimum size involved because i personally wouldn't want to see multiple banquet halls of a smaller size i'd rather see something that's more meaningful and they can staff it with a proper size kitchen and and run it i just think it needs to be run as a larger scale business so i would like to propose that if we make this text amendment that we have a minimum amount of square footage that would be required and i don't know exactly what that is i don't even know the of square footage i'm sure i could you look it up of what they're proposing but i just i don't want to think about one project we don't want to come back five years from now and we have six banquet halls that are 1200 square feet because somebody that was you know successful in cooking in their basement decided i don't think that's in the best interest of the township i agree and i i thank you for that because you're absolutely right anytime you're looking at a zoning ordinance amendments you're looking and should be thinking about the potential impact to that entire district um and i guess if i guess i will be curious to hear from the other board members regarding size okay but that's my opinion i have i have a question um according to this is one of the one of the uh special land use one of the permitted uses of course it's not a special land use it needs a special land use permit um restaurants now that they are that would mean that they would have to abide by all the other requirements of a restaurant hours of operation of permits for outdoor dining um any anything that other restaurants so if someone wanted to do this they'd have to adhere to all those other things is that correct correct our ordinance still has requirements in place that each site plan has to

  61. look it up of what they're proposing but i just i don't want to think about one project we don't want to come back five years from now and we have six banquet halls that are 1200 square feet because somebody that was you know successful in cooking in their basement decided i don't think that's in the best interest of the township i agree and i i thank you for that because you're absolutely right anytime you're looking at a zoning ordinance amendments you're looking and should be thinking about the potential impact to that entire district um and i guess if i guess i will be curious to hear from the other board members regarding size okay but that's my opinion i have i have a question um according to this is one of the one of the uh special land use one of the permitted uses of course it's not a special land use it needs a special land use permit um restaurants now that they are that would mean that they would have to abide by all the other requirements of a restaurant hours of operation of permits for outdoor dining um any anything that other restaurants so if someone wanted to do this they'd have to adhere to all those other things is that correct correct our ordinance still has requirements in place that each site plan has to adhere to a variety of site standards okay so so then it looks to me i'm asking i'm gonna ask it looks to me like whatever would be done unless i'm missing something whatever would be done at a banquet facility The function, not the name, the function, whatever's done, is already listed here as a permitted use under special land use. In other words, it's got to be, get permits, it's not by right, they have to get permits for it. Well, every single... Dining, music, alcohol... Every single list of use here would require a public hearing for the Planning Commission and ultimately the Township Board. That's the way the Township's ordinance is created. Would anything done at a banquet hall not fall into one of these categories? I don't know. If you're asking me my professional opinion based on the land use that's being proposed, I would say that it falls in line with some of the existing uses and the hours and impacts could be similar to a community center building or things like that. So I do think that there is a nexus between the existing language and the proposed use. Okay, so what we're just saying is you want to just add a word to a word to govern what a banquet hall is, but it's already in here without having a name for it.

  62. that correct correct our ordinance still has requirements in place that each site plan has to adhere to a variety of site standards okay so so then it looks to me i'm asking i'm gonna ask it looks to me like whatever would be done unless i'm missing something whatever would be done at a banquet facility The function, not the name, the function, whatever's done, is already listed here as a permitted use under special land use. In other words, it's got to be, get permits, it's not by right, they have to get permits for it. Well, every single... Dining, music, alcohol... Every single list of use here would require a public hearing for the Planning Commission and ultimately the Township Board. That's the way the Township's ordinance is created. Would anything done at a banquet hall not fall into one of these categories? I don't know. If you're asking me my professional opinion based on the land use that's being proposed, I would say that it falls in line with some of the existing uses and the hours and impacts could be similar to a community center building or things like that. So I do think that there is a nexus between the existing language and the proposed use. Okay, so what we're just saying is you want to just add a word to a word to govern what a banquet hall is, but it's already in here without having a name for it. But, yeah, of course. That is categorically incorrect. No, it's not. And I object to the fact that you're trying to do that. Okay, I'm going to ask you one more time. I have a police officer back here. If you disrupt a meeting, I'm going to ask him to ask you to leave. You have an opportunity to say what you want under comments. I have asked a question. I'd like to get an answer. That's all. Okay? I'm sorry. That's okay. I'm sorry. So, you're asking me if the actual use and function of a restaurant could be similar to that of a banquet hall. I would say yes, however, we all know that a banquet hall facility at the end of the day could potentially have different uses times. They may have singular people arriving at the same time leaving, so there's probably some differences. Yes, in all fairness, which is why we're asking to have this amended appropriately and be called what it is, which is a banquet hall. That's what I wanted to get the answer to. Thank you. Anybody else? Okay. Then let's open, now we're going to open it up again to public comment on the language of this. Again, name and address, 30 minutes, questions will be answered after we finish, just like we did before.

  63. Okay, so what we're just saying is you want to just add a word to a word to govern what a banquet hall is, but it's already in here without having a name for it. But, yeah, of course. That is categorically incorrect. No, it's not. And I object to the fact that you're trying to do that. Okay, I'm going to ask you one more time. I have a police officer back here. If you disrupt a meeting, I'm going to ask him to ask you to leave. You have an opportunity to say what you want under comments. I have asked a question. I'd like to get an answer. That's all. Okay? I'm sorry. That's okay. I'm sorry. So, you're asking me if the actual use and function of a restaurant could be similar to that of a banquet hall. I would say yes, however, we all know that a banquet hall facility at the end of the day could potentially have different uses times. They may have singular people arriving at the same time leaving, so there's probably some differences. Yes, in all fairness, which is why we're asking to have this amended appropriately and be called what it is, which is a banquet hall. That's what I wanted to get the answer to. Thank you. Anybody else? Okay. Then let's open, now we're going to open it up again to public comment on the language of this. Again, name and address, 30 minutes, questions will be answered after we finish, just like we did before. Have them speak to the board. And speak to us, please. Speak to the board. Speak to us, not the audience, speak to us. Okay. Hold on one second. I want to get that timer up. Okay, there we go. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Please. Good evening. My name is Jonathan Martone. I'm an attorney at law and I stand here representing Brett and Julia Northcutt, who are owners and residents on Berkshire Drive. I'm going to go with the City MAYOR for purposes of Public comment. record, I'm going to adopt and incorporate the correspondences written by my colleague Stefan Bagney that were tendered to the commission and should be reviewed, including the discussion regarding some of the procedural concerns regarding the notice and the manner in which these are going forward. I intend to address predominantly the issue with respect to proposed text amendment, but to respond to a point raised by Member Atto, I do agree that these types of decisions should be bifurcated that this text amendment really is the genesis is because of a specific use

  64. Again, name and address, 30 minutes, questions will be answered after we finish, just like we did before. Have them speak to the board. And speak to us, please. Speak to the board. Speak to us, not the audience, speak to us. Okay. Hold on one second. I want to get that timer up. Okay, there we go. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Please. Good evening. My name is Jonathan Martone. I'm an attorney at law and I stand here representing Brett and Julia Northcutt, who are owners and residents on Berkshire Drive. I'm going to go with the City MAYOR for purposes of Public comment. record, I'm going to adopt and incorporate the correspondences written by my colleague Stefan Bagney that were tendered to the commission and should be reviewed, including the discussion regarding some of the procedural concerns regarding the notice and the manner in which these are going forward. I intend to address predominantly the issue with respect to proposed text amendment, but to respond to a point raised by Member Atto, I do agree that these types of decisions should be bifurcated that this text amendment really is the genesis is because of a specific use instance and that the decision of the township should review this in a vacuum whether or not it should even permit this sort of amendment to its zoning, not with respect to whether it would make sense and whether this change to the zoning would then allow this special use permit to then occur. This proposal though is incongruous with the master plan. The township has, and considering this proposal, it has largely disregarded and distorted the master plan. If you look at the master plan, it puts a premier emphasis on the residential component in nature of Bloomfield Township. In fact, in the preamble, it talks about that the desire of the master plan is to be a premier residential community and it closes that it is to be a desirable community in which to live. Placing a banquet hall permitting for banquet halls of this nature to be placed 80 feet from the residential rear line of these homes. So let's look at the stage of the master plan. I'm going to turn to the master plan. anything but consistent with preserving a community in which is desirable and improper to live in. This the the research tech park intended use is for community research technical office service training uses and related

  65. be bifurcated that this text amendment really is the genesis is because of a specific use instance and that the decision of the township should review this in a vacuum whether or not it should even permit this sort of amendment to its zoning, not with respect to whether it would make sense and whether this change to the zoning would then allow this special use permit to then occur. This proposal though is incongruous with the master plan. The township has, and considering this proposal, it has largely disregarded and distorted the master plan. If you look at the master plan, it puts a premier emphasis on the residential component in nature of Bloomfield Township. In fact, in the preamble, it talks about that the desire of the master plan is to be a premier residential community and it closes that it is to be a desirable community in which to live. Placing a banquet hall permitting for banquet halls of this nature to be placed 80 feet from the residential rear line of these homes. So let's look at the stage of the master plan. I'm going to turn to the master plan. anything but consistent with preserving a community in which is desirable and improper to live in. This the the research tech park intended use is for community research technical office service training uses and related facilities. Now while there may be some contemplated other uses that's the predominant intent. If you want to amend the master plan to describe different uses that's what the proper process should be it shouldn't be to amend the zoning ordinance in this this manner. Restaurants in the contemplated uses are auxiliary and would support those office uses. It is not a banquet hall that contemplates serving up to a thousand people and I will address this when it comes to the special use but the thousand people exiting at 1 a.m. in the morning a thousand people that have attended a venue that largely and very well might have an open bar that are intoxicated that are making noise none of the sound mitigation light mitigation or even safety concerns or processes that are addressed in the application would adequately and guarantee that this wouldn't have an adverse impact on the residents in in that area. The Giffels Webster report speaks in conclusory statements. It doesn't actually do the analysis. It states there's no adverse impact on the value of the homes. It challenges and details. Thank you very much. Thanks Scott, cause it sinn- Playing. Thank you. Thank you very much. .

  66. community research technical office service training uses and related facilities. Now while there may be some contemplated other uses that's the predominant intent. If you want to amend the master plan to describe different uses that's what the proper process should be it shouldn't be to amend the zoning ordinance in this this manner. Restaurants in the contemplated uses are auxiliary and would support those office uses. It is not a banquet hall that contemplates serving up to a thousand people and I will address this when it comes to the special use but the thousand people exiting at 1 a.m. in the morning a thousand people that have attended a venue that largely and very well might have an open bar that are intoxicated that are making noise none of the sound mitigation light mitigation or even safety concerns or processes that are addressed in the application would adequately and guarantee that this wouldn't have an adverse impact on the residents in in that area. The Giffels Webster report speaks in conclusory statements. It doesn't actually do the analysis. It states there's no adverse impact on the value of the homes. It challenges and details. Thank you very much. Thanks Scott, cause it sinn- Playing. Thank you. Thank you very much. . Good evening, again, Brett Northcutt, 310 North Berkshire. If you haven't guessed, I'm strongly opposed to the proposed development of 350 Fremont. I'm strongly opposed to any and all variances of the proposed development of 350 Fremont Street. I'm strongly opposed to any text changes to the zoning ordinance to allow for banquet halls and RP zoning. Again, earlier I mentioned I'm frustrated, we're irritated, I'm disappointed. Those are adjectives and nouns that I could use to describe this development, but let's hear from the developer himself. Specific verbiage, recently, in Cranes, it's an event venue in the woods, not a banquet hall in the woods. Our Detroit, 650 seats available, space for 1,000 strolling guests. Oakland County's premier large-scale event space, didn't say large-scale banquet hall. We'll have two floors, including a sunken amphitheater and indoor-outdoor transitional space. Yet to see any indoor-outdoor transitional space in any banquet hall I've been to. In D-business on the website, 30,000-square-foot venue large enough to host notable events. A jewel box for Bloomfield Township with reach far beyond its borders.

  67. Good evening, again, Brett Northcutt, 310 North Berkshire. If you haven't guessed, I'm strongly opposed to the proposed development of 350 Fremont. I'm strongly opposed to any and all variances of the proposed development of 350 Fremont Street. I'm strongly opposed to any text changes to the zoning ordinance to allow for banquet halls and RP zoning. Again, earlier I mentioned I'm frustrated, we're irritated, I'm disappointed. Those are adjectives and nouns that I could use to describe this development, but let's hear from the developer himself. Specific verbiage, recently, in Cranes, it's an event venue in the woods, not a banquet hall in the woods. Our Detroit, 650 seats available, space for 1,000 strolling guests. Oakland County's premier large-scale event space, didn't say large-scale banquet hall. We'll have two floors, including a sunken amphitheater and indoor-outdoor transitional space. Yet to see any indoor-outdoor transitional space in any banquet hall I've been to. In D-business on the website, 30,000-square-foot venue large enough to host notable events. A jewel box for Bloomfield Township with reach far beyond its borders. I think from what you've seen tonight, it definitely is going to reach beyond its borders. It's going to reach every single neighbor, homeowner, and resident within probably three-quarters of a mile. I don't think, though, that's what they meant by this. that's actually what's going to happen. There isn't much in our backyards to accommodate 600 to 700 people for a sit-down dinner outside of a hotel ballroom. Yeah, you're freaking right. But you know what's going to happen? 600, 700 people are actually going to be in my backyard, Julia's backyard, Kim and John's backyard. That is not what Bloomfield Township stands for. In the January 7th design meeting, Mr. Sklar stated the amphitheater is going to be sick. And I agree. But for me, sick stands for the fact that it is going to be a significant safety risk, not just to my four kids in my house that are less than 100 yards from 1,000 drunk people, but for the entire neighborhood. How on earth do we expect anybody at this event center to corral 1,000 people in the dark on 31 acres? It's absurd to assume that that will ever be able to happen.

  68. A jewel box for Bloomfield Township with reach far beyond its borders. I think from what you've seen tonight, it definitely is going to reach beyond its borders. It's going to reach every single neighbor, homeowner, and resident within probably three-quarters of a mile. I don't think, though, that's what they meant by this. that's actually what's going to happen. There isn't much in our backyards to accommodate 600 to 700 people for a sit-down dinner outside of a hotel ballroom. Yeah, you're freaking right. But you know what's going to happen? 600, 700 people are actually going to be in my backyard, Julia's backyard, Kim and John's backyard. That is not what Bloomfield Township stands for. In the January 7th design meeting, Mr. Sklar stated the amphitheater is going to be sick. And I agree. But for me, sick stands for the fact that it is going to be a significant safety risk, not just to my four kids in my house that are less than 100 yards from 1,000 drunk people, but for the entire neighborhood. How on earth do we expect anybody at this event center to corral 1,000 people in the dark on 31 acres? It's absurd to assume that that will ever be able to happen. Um, I it's going to um negatively impact our home value and there's zero analysis been done to refute that. Simply a statement saying no home values will be impacted. Would you like to put this behind your 1.52 million dollar home? Probably not. But beyond all this is extremely frustrating how quickly this is all moving. We found out just over three weeks ago. Again, as I said earlier, nobody has reached the right. nobody's trying to work with us this needs to stop today hi my name is Mike vanhoff at 330 North Berkshire so I would be very close to this proposed event space and speaking specifically about the zoning proposal that's on the table now I would ask that the township must consider first of course the master plan and it's listed right in our vision statement that Bloomfield is a premier residential community and I definitely feel that this would negatively impact our specific community and it would fall far below what I would consider

  69. Um, I it's going to um negatively impact our home value and there's zero analysis been done to refute that. Simply a statement saying no home values will be impacted. Would you like to put this behind your 1.52 million dollar home? Probably not. But beyond all this is extremely frustrating how quickly this is all moving. We found out just over three weeks ago. Again, as I said earlier, nobody has reached the right. nobody's trying to work with us this needs to stop today hi my name is Mike vanhoff at 330 North Berkshire so I would be very close to this proposed event space and speaking specifically about the zoning proposal that's on the table now I would ask that the township must consider first of course the master plan and it's listed right in our vision statement that Bloomfield is a premier residential community and I definitely feel that this would negatively impact our specific community and it would fall far below what I would consider premier adding a banquet hall is not appropriate for a research park zoning district and I'll explain why it is a significant part departure from the from what my experience is with the research park I my back of my lot backs up to the research park in a different area but but close by where you're talking about and they've been great great neighbors no problems they're busy you know the activity is Monday through Friday from maybe 8 a.m. until 6 p.m. and then nothing on the weekends nothing in the evenings and and the proposal that we're talking about here today is essentially the complete opposite in the level of what that is so that is a clear differentiation for what would be typically a research park we bought our property knowing it was a research park and it should stay a research park the what has been discussed as far as the negative impact on the home values I would ask as a clear question where is the evidence that it will have no impact okay we need a study of some sort nothing that's been provided except for maybe a one sentence statement in the proposal

  70. our specific community and it would fall far below what I would consider premier adding a banquet hall is not appropriate for a research park zoning district and I'll explain why it is a significant part departure from the from what my experience is with the research park I my back of my lot backs up to the research park in a different area but but close by where you're talking about and they've been great great neighbors no problems they're busy you know the activity is Monday through Friday from maybe 8 a.m. until 6 p.m. and then nothing on the weekends nothing in the evenings and and the proposal that we're talking about here today is essentially the complete opposite in the level of what that is so that is a clear differentiation for what would be typically a research park we bought our property knowing it was a research park and it should stay a research park the what has been discussed as far as the negative impact on the home values I would ask as a clear question where is the evidence that it will have no impact okay we need a study of some sort nothing that's been provided except for maybe a one sentence statement in the proposal from the Planning Commission that's not enough that's not appropriate even for you guys to make a decision that's not appropriate so at at a minimum also what I would ask is that the definition of banquet hall is set up for other reasons or other zoning districts so we really need to look at tailoring any language you may consider for adding the research park in in order to accommodate what is being discussed here today you know I know that it's been discussed but oh there could be restaurants there could be this today we're not talking about restaurants we're talking about this proposal this proposal is directly adjacent to our neighborhood that has to be the focus according to the master plan also referenced about you know the skating venue and the tennis clubs and other pickleball this and that that's not next to our neighborhood that you have to consider this proposal only you're adding it specifically for this development proposal thank you thank you very much again greg you 2127 again i want to respect all quorum but mr atto how do you take the position

  71. that's been provided except for maybe a one sentence statement in the proposal from the Planning Commission that's not enough that's not appropriate even for you guys to make a decision that's not appropriate so at at a minimum also what I would ask is that the definition of banquet hall is set up for other reasons or other zoning districts so we really need to look at tailoring any language you may consider for adding the research park in in order to accommodate what is being discussed here today you know I know that it's been discussed but oh there could be restaurants there could be this today we're not talking about restaurants we're talking about this proposal this proposal is directly adjacent to our neighborhood that has to be the focus according to the master plan also referenced about you know the skating venue and the tennis clubs and other pickleball this and that that's not next to our neighborhood that you have to consider this proposal only you're adding it specifically for this development proposal thank you thank you very much again greg you 2127 again i want to respect all quorum but mr atto how do you take the position that you own property in ip and that you're in support of this because it might benefit you later honestly i'm befuddled that you said that and then mr sol it's like how do you banquet hall is defined in the zoning ordinance you don't need miss bibby on the record to tell you it's like a restaurant it's like you guys are spot zoning this and mr atto you literally said i want to make them bigger i don't know what size he wants but i'm sure it's with what i'm thinking i mean this is like this is getting outrageous i've never seen anything like this before your banquet hall is defined in the orders mr atto you said we can't have small banquet halls because they're not currently allowed they are just on telegraph road where there's no homes you said in your opening question that we don't allow banquet halls but you do right miss bibby on telegraph road in the current zoning ordinance you just don't allow it in our backyards right now and you're saying you own ip and you want to encourage this development because it might be better for you later and you know banquet hall is defined you know what a banquet hall is i can read it to you out of your own zoning ordinance it's not a restaurant it's a use which provides rental space for such functions but not limited to wedding parties conferences service

  72. again greg you 2127 again i want to respect all quorum but mr atto how do you take the position that you own property in ip and that you're in support of this because it might benefit you later honestly i'm befuddled that you said that and then mr sol it's like how do you banquet hall is defined in the zoning ordinance you don't need miss bibby on the record to tell you it's like a restaurant it's like you guys are spot zoning this and mr atto you literally said i want to make them bigger i don't know what size he wants but i'm sure it's with what i'm thinking i mean this is like this is getting outrageous i've never seen anything like this before your banquet hall is defined in the orders mr atto you said we can't have small banquet halls because they're not currently allowed they are just on telegraph road where there's no homes you said in your opening question that we don't allow banquet halls but you do right miss bibby on telegraph road in the current zoning ordinance you just don't allow it in our backyards right now and you're saying you own ip and you want to encourage this development because it might be better for you later and you know banquet hall is defined you know what a banquet hall is i can read it to you out of your own zoning ordinance it's not a restaurant it's a use which provides rental space for such functions but not limited to wedding parties conferences service meetings and other similar gatherings along with the catering of food services off-premise for the purpose of this chapter be beer wine and spirit shall also be permitted you tell me one expert that says that's the same as a pickle ball court this is insanity what I'm hearing I didn't even come here that upset but this is making me upset you're telling me a basketball venue a pickleball venue is the same as a thousand person venue in our backyard drinking alcohol dancing getting married in the woods right mr. Sklar what you told me there's gonna be outdoor weddings but just not the music that'll be inside but the weddings that's outdoors and the strolling that's outdoors I guess I don't even know like I don't even know what to respond to anymore I'm hearing we need a spot zone a certain size that fits his we don't currently allow it but we do allow it on telegraph or there's no homes but I want to allow it on Franklin Road so that it can affect all these neighbors but I want to make sure the size requirement I'm asking for fits his fits his proposal right I didn't misrepresent what you guys just said I'm in shock we're in shock and you get mad at us when we get upset these are our homes our we built our families here you go home to your home without a banquet hall in the backyard he goes to Birmingham without a

  73. meetings and other similar gatherings along with the catering of food services off-premise for the purpose of this chapter be beer wine and spirit shall also be permitted you tell me one expert that says that's the same as a pickle ball court this is insanity what I'm hearing I didn't even come here that upset but this is making me upset you're telling me a basketball venue a pickleball venue is the same as a thousand person venue in our backyard drinking alcohol dancing getting married in the woods right mr. Sklar what you told me there's gonna be outdoor weddings but just not the music that'll be inside but the weddings that's outdoors and the strolling that's outdoors I guess I don't even know like I don't even know what to respond to anymore I'm hearing we need a spot zone a certain size that fits his we don't currently allow it but we do allow it on telegraph or there's no homes but I want to allow it on Franklin Road so that it can affect all these neighbors but I want to make sure the size requirement I'm asking for fits his fits his proposal right I didn't misrepresent what you guys just said I'm in shock we're in shock and you get mad at us when we get upset these are our homes our we built our families here you go home to your home without a banquet hall in the backyard he goes to Birmingham without a banquet hall in his backyard but we if you guys do this go home to a banquet hall not a pickleball court not a basketball court drinking Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday till midnight 2 a.m. drunk just running around. That's what bank and all's do. You've been to a bank, you've been to a wedding, you've been to an open bar, and your expert is comparing it to a pickleball court? This is insanity. Tough act to follow again. My name is John Schaefer. I live at 300 North Berkshire. My property is the one they reference 80 feet from the building, right? So I'm going to take a little different tact here. I want to talk about special land uses for a research park as opposed to the Zone B3 general business classification. So when I look at the special land uses available for a research park, you know, you've got your restaurants, your car agency, your sports shoes, accessories. There's a couple words that are missing from every single one of those that is in several of the

  74. your home without a banquet hall in the backyard he goes to Birmingham without a banquet hall in his backyard but we if you guys do this go home to a banquet hall not a pickleball court not a basketball court drinking Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday till midnight 2 a.m. drunk just running around. That's what bank and all's do. You've been to a bank, you've been to a wedding, you've been to an open bar, and your expert is comparing it to a pickleball court? This is insanity. Tough act to follow again. My name is John Schaefer. I live at 300 North Berkshire. My property is the one they reference 80 feet from the building, right? So I'm going to take a little different tact here. I want to talk about special land uses for a research park as opposed to the Zone B3 general business classification. So when I look at the special land uses available for a research park, you know, you've got your restaurants, your car agency, your sports shoes, accessories. There's a couple words that are missing from every single one of those that is in several of the special land uses of the B3 classification, and that word is alcohol. Nowhere in the research park special land uses mentions anything about alcohol. You want to put a restaurant in there without alcohol? I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as big of a problem. If you look at the special land uses in the B3, you have several places that restaurants possessing Class C and or tavern licenses. Have a great weekend with Alexis. Ok this says it is the favorite magic for you. cinemas with glassy and tavern licenses and what i'm saying to you is by the admission of that in the research park that it should not be allowed you can't just add that in the reason that there's no alcohol in the research park is because it stays quieter because this is a bedroom community because this is right next to us the pickleball court you guys are talking about i know where it is it's silent it's all interior if they stay open to midnight i don't care this is going to be 80 feet from my property a thousand people three week three weekend day i'm sorry so nurse spring to fall every weekend alcohol people roaming around we talked about having a line of trees

  75. There's a couple words that are missing from every single one of those that is in several of the special land uses of the B3 classification, and that word is alcohol. Nowhere in the research park special land uses mentions anything about alcohol. You want to put a restaurant in there without alcohol? I don't think it's going to be anywhere near as big of a problem. If you look at the special land uses in the B3, you have several places that restaurants possessing Class C and or tavern licenses. Have a great weekend with Alexis. Ok this says it is the favorite magic for you. cinemas with glassy and tavern licenses and what i'm saying to you is by the admission of that in the research park that it should not be allowed you can't just add that in the reason that there's no alcohol in the research park is because it stays quieter because this is a bedroom community because this is right next to us the pickleball court you guys are talking about i know where it is it's silent it's all interior if they stay open to midnight i don't care this is going to be 80 feet from my property a thousand people three week three weekend day i'm sorry so nurse spring to fall every weekend alcohol people roaming around we talked about having a line of trees between me and that that's not enough 80 feet is not enough the purpose of the special land uses and the reason that alcohol isn't in it for research park there's a reason as to keep things quiet for the neighbors thank you hi my name is kim shafer i'm john's wife i live at 300 north berkshire i'm not nearly as eloquent as any of them but um i came to the last meeting um i met with zach he met with us like two weeks after uh like week after that meeting the residents of fremont street were contacted six months ago which i appreciate i would have liked the same i would feel a little more we'd have more information we have very little time to react or it just felt like it was going behind our back um i liked him i frequent his restaurants i no problem with that my problem which i would disagree completely

  76. spring to fall every weekend alcohol people roaming around we talked about having a line of trees between me and that that's not enough 80 feet is not enough the purpose of the special land uses and the reason that alcohol isn't in it for research park there's a reason as to keep things quiet for the neighbors thank you hi my name is kim shafer i'm john's wife i live at 300 north berkshire i'm not nearly as eloquent as any of them but um i came to the last meeting um i met with zach he met with us like two weeks after uh like week after that meeting the residents of fremont street were contacted six months ago which i appreciate i would have liked the same i would feel a little more we'd have more information we have very little time to react or it just felt like it was going behind our back um i liked him i frequent his restaurants i no problem with that my problem which i would disagree completely with mr atcho but just the giant enormous size of it it's 80 feet from my property i understand equally i have friends who are developers it's your private property you should be able to develop it but i don't need people trying to what pee on my garage i i don't like people are going to have alcohol we've all been to giant weddings and i completely agree i think the size and the scale of it is is the troublesome thing to to me being 80 feet from it and a line of trees isn't enough and i appreciate that you get to develop your property i but i feel like you guys just like the first meeting i watched with you your minds are made up i don't i i don't feel like you're hearing us i don't feel like we're respected i watched pick people get buried since for pickleball courts people having to move their their generators because of sound but this is okay i i know i'm emotional you you and I just think the size and the scale of it, or at least something to block people from wandering into our neighborhood. And I equally, that's all I've got to say, I guess. I've spoke here before, and you know how I feel,

  77. i frequent his restaurants i no problem with that my problem which i would disagree completely with mr atcho but just the giant enormous size of it it's 80 feet from my property i understand equally i have friends who are developers it's your private property you should be able to develop it but i don't need people trying to what pee on my garage i i don't like people are going to have alcohol we've all been to giant weddings and i completely agree i think the size and the scale of it is is the troublesome thing to to me being 80 feet from it and a line of trees isn't enough and i appreciate that you get to develop your property i but i feel like you guys just like the first meeting i watched with you your minds are made up i don't i i don't feel like you're hearing us i don't feel like we're respected i watched pick people get buried since for pickleball courts people having to move their their generators because of sound but this is okay i i know i'm emotional you you and I just think the size and the scale of it, or at least something to block people from wandering into our neighborhood. And I equally, that's all I've got to say, I guess. I've spoke here before, and you know how I feel, and thank you for your time. Thank you. Good evening. Kelly Forster, 179 North Berkshire, representing my parents, Adam and Nancy Forster, who could not be here for medical reasons tonight. They've been residents of the neighborhood since 1977. It's a nice, quiet, safe neighborhood. It was a beautiful place to grow up. We now have an extended neighborhood with many, many young children, young families who've invested a lot. And under your banquet halls, the number one thing, such uses are subject to the following, compatibility with adjacent existing proposed residential properties shall be a primary concern. That should be your primary concern. Speak thus, please. That should be the primary concern. Well, this is the person who's in charge of planning, too. So that, you need to take that into consideration. This is a safety issue. Small children. Small children. Small children. Small children.

  78. I've spoke here before, and you know how I feel, and thank you for your time. Thank you. Good evening. Kelly Forster, 179 North Berkshire, representing my parents, Adam and Nancy Forster, who could not be here for medical reasons tonight. They've been residents of the neighborhood since 1977. It's a nice, quiet, safe neighborhood. It was a beautiful place to grow up. We now have an extended neighborhood with many, many young children, young families who've invested a lot. And under your banquet halls, the number one thing, such uses are subject to the following, compatibility with adjacent existing proposed residential properties shall be a primary concern. That should be your primary concern. Speak thus, please. That should be the primary concern. Well, this is the person who's in charge of planning, too. So that, you need to take that into consideration. This is a safety issue. Small children. Small children. Small children. Small children. in the neighborhood this banquet hall is supposed to be operating seven days a week from 8 a.m to midnight or beyond serving alcohol this is a big big factor to think about in a neighborhood like ours that people have invested so much in so much time and money in to live so my parents wanted to make sure they're on record thank you thank you good evening my name is elizabeth brower i live in 213 north picture road i moved to bloomfield with my family around eight nine years ago we have two little children that they leave there happily they actually hang out with some of the children's our neighbors there they go alone back and forth and we feel so relaxed because it's a very quiet neighborhood very safe our concern is what is going to happen how we're going to i'm personally will not feel safe with my kids going around in their bicycles walking around as you mentioned when there is people drinking in this banquet which by the way i'm uh i have a question because um

  79. in the neighborhood this banquet hall is supposed to be operating seven days a week from 8 a.m to midnight or beyond serving alcohol this is a big big factor to think about in a neighborhood like ours that people have invested so much in so much time and money in to live so my parents wanted to make sure they're on record thank you thank you good evening my name is elizabeth brower i live in 213 north picture road i moved to bloomfield with my family around eight nine years ago we have two little children that they leave there happily they actually hang out with some of the children's our neighbors there they go alone back and forth and we feel so relaxed because it's a very quiet neighborhood very safe our concern is what is going to happen how we're going to i'm personally will not feel safe with my kids going around in their bicycles walking around as you mentioned when there is people drinking in this banquet which by the way i'm uh i have a question because um i would like to the board to clarify is this a banquet called banquet center hall but it also will have an amphitheater being constructed on that property you rather than out so then it will be an outdoor music entertainment place on top of that so not only a banquet also an entertainment so how will you feel if you will leave there where you invested we you invested your time we pay taxes we put money on these houses we as we heard we turn this neighborhood into a big neighborhood they start and everyone is concerned yeah property value that's a big one but the biggest one is safety and drunk people going around so what there's going to go what is going to happen how we're going to ensure that that is not going to happen right so i totally opposed to this development and i i will not support this thank you thank you john kluzniak 216 north berkshire i gotta echo what greg said i was appalled earlier on we talked wetlands

  80. people drinking in this banquet which by the way i'm uh i have a question because um i would like to the board to clarify is this a banquet called banquet center hall but it also will have an amphitheater being constructed on that property you rather than out so then it will be an outdoor music entertainment place on top of that so not only a banquet also an entertainment so how will you feel if you will leave there where you invested we you invested your time we pay taxes we put money on these houses we as we heard we turn this neighborhood into a big neighborhood they start and everyone is concerned yeah property value that's a big one but the biggest one is safety and drunk people going around so what there's going to go what is going to happen how we're going to ensure that that is not going to happen right so i totally opposed to this development and i i will not support this thank you thank you john kluzniak 216 north berkshire i gotta echo what greg said i was appalled earlier on we talked wetlands you guys all had your opinions made up you didn't talk about one thing that any residents had anything about you voted the way you were going to vote before any of us got up here and mr otto i mean really you have a vested interest you should recuse yourself right now i will give you the opportunity recuse yourself from this vote if you recuse yourself from this vote you won't do it banquet halls are wrong for this spot and by the way i my property connects directly to the development not one person in the developer ever came and talked to me that one and i and i attached directly to the property they had a zoom call at noon on a weekday are you kidding me you guys have it in the evening so that we can attend we have jobs noon on a weekday and you call that connecting with the community unbelievable and it's been said more times than not uh banquet halls are about noise alcohol late hours traffic lighting these guys better be planned to come to my house many times because i'll call it in every single time because apparently zoning doesn't matter anymore i'm gonna

  81. john kluzniak 216 north berkshire i gotta echo what greg said i was appalled earlier on we talked wetlands you guys all had your opinions made up you didn't talk about one thing that any residents had anything about you voted the way you were going to vote before any of us got up here and mr otto i mean really you have a vested interest you should recuse yourself right now i will give you the opportunity recuse yourself from this vote if you recuse yourself from this vote you won't do it banquet halls are wrong for this spot and by the way i my property connects directly to the development not one person in the developer ever came and talked to me that one and i and i attached directly to the property they had a zoom call at noon on a weekday are you kidding me you guys have it in the evening so that we can attend we have jobs noon on a weekday and you call that connecting with the community unbelievable and it's been said more times than not uh banquet halls are about noise alcohol late hours traffic lighting these guys better be planned to come to my house many times because i'll call it in every single time because apparently zoning doesn't matter anymore i'm gonna put two giant speakers out the back of my house blurring the most violent music in the world and don't come talking to me about zoning because it doesn't matter if you have enough money in this in this community you're a developer with millions of dollars you can have whatever you want you'll change the zoning for them because they've already bought and paid for it it's unbelievable you know we're told to wait for the study i'd love to see the study i've never got to see the study m1 concourse did a study i had my own study did i get to see theirs no i didn't they wouldn't put it on the table i'm intelligent enough to read a study i have one from the massachusetts institute of technology sensible city planning 5,000 pages it says this is a bad idea I'll show it to them I'll show it to you as soon as they put theirs on the table now here's the thing we got burned once with M1 concourse glad to see the people from Pontiac here right because we weren't invited and one concourse Bloomfield doesn't care I god bless them I call these guys they come out they don't care because it's coming from Pontiac Pontiac doesn't care because I'm not a citizen of Pontiac and the local county sheriff and they direct their damn traffic they

  82. because i'll call it in every single time because apparently zoning doesn't matter anymore i'm gonna put two giant speakers out the back of my house blurring the most violent music in the world and don't come talking to me about zoning because it doesn't matter if you have enough money in this in this community you're a developer with millions of dollars you can have whatever you want you'll change the zoning for them because they've already bought and paid for it it's unbelievable you know we're told to wait for the study i'd love to see the study i've never got to see the study m1 concourse did a study i had my own study did i get to see theirs no i didn't they wouldn't put it on the table i'm intelligent enough to read a study i have one from the massachusetts institute of technology sensible city planning 5,000 pages it says this is a bad idea I'll show it to them I'll show it to you as soon as they put theirs on the table now here's the thing we got burned once with M1 concourse glad to see the people from Pontiac here right because we weren't invited and one concourse Bloomfield doesn't care I god bless them I call these guys they come out they don't care because it's coming from Pontiac Pontiac doesn't care because I'm not a citizen of Pontiac and the local county sheriff and they direct their damn traffic they get paid to do it they're bought and paid for are we upset yes we are very upset every single one of us and this has got to stop here I'll end this way I pay taxes I vote honor your zoning you already have it there honor your zoning protect the residents that are already there do your job vote go hi I'm Ellen Reed I live at 255 North Berkshire Road I bought my home 15 years ago I've renovated on my own I'm a single person I'm raising my seven-year-old granddaughter on my own now I bring that up primarily because she is in the school district that way she is connected not only with the other kids in the neighborhood but every adult here knows who she is okay and the point is you're putting all this emphasis on what's going on the other side of the street or behind us I look right out my front windows I'm the postmodern ranch there I see in clear daylight exactly what's going to go in front of me not behind me and even though

  83. of Pontiac and the local county sheriff and they direct their damn traffic they get paid to do it they're bought and paid for are we upset yes we are very upset every single one of us and this has got to stop here I'll end this way I pay taxes I vote honor your zoning you already have it there honor your zoning protect the residents that are already there do your job vote go hi I'm Ellen Reed I live at 255 North Berkshire Road I bought my home 15 years ago I've renovated on my own I'm a single person I'm raising my seven-year-old granddaughter on my own now I bring that up primarily because she is in the school district that way she is connected not only with the other kids in the neighborhood but every adult here knows who she is okay and the point is you're putting all this emphasis on what's going on the other side of the street or behind us I look right out my front windows I'm the postmodern ranch there I see in clear daylight exactly what's going to go in front of me not behind me and even though that would make a difference as well but in front of me so and I'm just across the street through the woods I don't even have a house across the street for me in the first notice I received was this postcard this postcard which everybody should have received a few weeks ago followed up by a new meeting coming soon I know you guys have seen this if you read the front and the back of it and you look at the pictures in the plan the first thing you think about is coming soon when I didn't know anything about this blindsided completely by the board by the township where are the notices that we were supposed to receive I have not gotten a notice prior to this and I've been there 15 years what's your address 255 I totally support every neighbor that has stood up here every person that has stood up here I have not been to all the meetings because you know I

  84. I see in clear daylight exactly what's going to go in front of me not behind me and even though that would make a difference as well but in front of me so and I'm just across the street through the woods I don't even have a house across the street for me in the first notice I received was this postcard this postcard which everybody should have received a few weeks ago followed up by a new meeting coming soon I know you guys have seen this if you read the front and the back of it and you look at the pictures in the plan the first thing you think about is coming soon when I didn't know anything about this blindsided completely by the board by the township where are the notices that we were supposed to receive I have not gotten a notice prior to this and I've been there 15 years what's your address 255 I totally support every neighbor that has stood up here every person that has stood up here I have not been to all the meetings because you know I have a seven-year-old I'm watching right now and raising. I can't be here. But I do want you to know that this is architecturally beautiful. I work at a company, Fleur Detroit, you probably know much about us, right down the street. I am very familiar with big events. I'm very familiar with the cost of them and what it brings to the table and what it puts in my boss's pocketbook. I get where you're going with it. I don't get that you don't talk to us, that you don't communicate. And you have people up here, oh, state what you want to say, turn it all off, we'll answer you in a minute. Totally lose the continuity of the question and the answer or that they even go together. Totally controlling every aspect of the meeting. I don't appreciate that as a resident. If you volunteered for your position, great, thanks. Okay? If you're getting paid for whatever position in the township, great. However, you are still obligated to us as residents. I have renovated my house, put a lot of money into it. I keep my property up. And I expect a return. And not a diminished return, a solid

  85. have a seven-year-old I'm watching right now and raising. I can't be here. But I do want you to know that this is architecturally beautiful. I work at a company, Fleur Detroit, you probably know much about us, right down the street. I am very familiar with big events. I'm very familiar with the cost of them and what it brings to the table and what it puts in my boss's pocketbook. I get where you're going with it. I don't get that you don't talk to us, that you don't communicate. And you have people up here, oh, state what you want to say, turn it all off, we'll answer you in a minute. Totally lose the continuity of the question and the answer or that they even go together. Totally controlling every aspect of the meeting. I don't appreciate that as a resident. If you volunteered for your position, great, thanks. Okay? If you're getting paid for whatever position in the township, great. However, you are still obligated to us as residents. I have renovated my house, put a lot of money into it. I keep my property up. And I expect a return. And not a diminished return, a solid return on my property. And will that come up? Thank you very much. hello good evening thank you for the time my name is Philip Kafka I'm speaking in three capacities one is a resident of Bloomfield Township I'm not a neighbor of the property I want to state that I don't have as much skin in the game there but I am a resident of the township I'm a developer in the city of Detroit and have been fortunate enough to develop quite a bit of land there that has was had had resistance at first but everybody's been thankful that happened and sorry oh five five three zero Shadow Lane and I'm also a professor of architecture when I first saw the press about this project I was excited about the pro about the product and I know that we drive around our world and we're often underwhelmed and this is a good example of why it's so hard to get good work done I'm here today not in adamant favor of the project and not against the project I'm here to try to push our community to allow for good work to happen we have some good ingredients here

  86. into it. I keep my property up. And I expect a return. And not a diminished return, a solid return on my property. And will that come up? Thank you very much. hello good evening thank you for the time my name is Philip Kafka I'm speaking in three capacities one is a resident of Bloomfield Township I'm not a neighbor of the property I want to state that I don't have as much skin in the game there but I am a resident of the township I'm a developer in the city of Detroit and have been fortunate enough to develop quite a bit of land there that has was had had resistance at first but everybody's been thankful that happened and sorry oh five five three zero Shadow Lane and I'm also a professor of architecture when I first saw the press about this project I was excited about the pro about the product and I know that we drive around our world and we're often underwhelmed and this is a good example of why it's so hard to get good work done I'm here today not in adamant favor of the project and not against the project I'm here to try to push our community to allow for good work to happen we have some good ingredients here we have a developer that seems to have amazing taste and has been connected to the community for a long time I'm speaking as a developer here I know what can happen when you push back against good projects you get worse projects and yes it might not happen tomorrow or the day after but it can happen in two or three years from now right now I think the township I don't know exactly legally what what can be done in terms of a negotiation but it seems like we have the ingredients for a great project and inevitably when there is a reward there's always going to be risk and i and i totally resonate with the risk that the neighbors of this property have but i'd like to push everybody to kind of think we have i'm very familiar with the architect isaac mihan and the landscape landscape architect landform these are world class designers and architects and it would be a shame for us to miss the opportunity to try to make a project where everybody can win because i know as a developer that actually can happen if conversations happen um but we have the ingredients for a great project here and i'd like to push the township and the community i understand and the developer i understand all your interests and all your concerns to try to make something great happen because i'm tired of seeing a world that is boring unattractive and continues to be uninspiring i think this project has the potential

  87. to try to push our community to allow for good work to happen we have some good ingredients here we have a developer that seems to have amazing taste and has been connected to the community for a long time I'm speaking as a developer here I know what can happen when you push back against good projects you get worse projects and yes it might not happen tomorrow or the day after but it can happen in two or three years from now right now I think the township I don't know exactly legally what what can be done in terms of a negotiation but it seems like we have the ingredients for a great project and inevitably when there is a reward there's always going to be risk and i and i totally resonate with the risk that the neighbors of this property have but i'd like to push everybody to kind of think we have i'm very familiar with the architect isaac mihan and the landscape landscape architect landform these are world class designers and architects and it would be a shame for us to miss the opportunity to try to make a project where everybody can win because i know as a developer that actually can happen if conversations happen um but we have the ingredients for a great project here and i'd like to push the township and the community i understand and the developer i understand all your interests and all your concerns to try to make something great happen because i'm tired of seeing a world that is boring unattractive and continues to be uninspiring i think this project has the potential to be great i understand the risks and i'd like to push everybody our community our township and our developer here to try to make this work because i think there's a reward and inevitably there is a risk and we should try to mitigate that as much as possible thank you very much thank you hello my name is leslie kyes i live at 2208 somerset road bloomfield township i'm here on behalf of my mother she lives at 135 bloomfield boulevard bloomfield township and her property is 340 fremont right adjacent to this development and i want you to know for the record she was never ever contacted once the first time we ever heard about this project was in the detroit free press on january January 25th, 2026, and so I, for the record, just want to say that we're very disappointed that no one ever contacted us. Now, after the article came out, we all of a sudden got letters about this public hearing. But the actual Free Press article is the first time we ever heard about this, and her property is right next to this development. We have concerns, even though the property is vacant, it's still been in our family for a couple generations, and we want to make sure that it's not negatively impacted in terms

  88. that is boring unattractive and continues to be uninspiring i think this project has the potential to be great i understand the risks and i'd like to push everybody our community our township and our developer here to try to make this work because i think there's a reward and inevitably there is a risk and we should try to mitigate that as much as possible thank you very much thank you hello my name is leslie kyes i live at 2208 somerset road bloomfield township i'm here on behalf of my mother she lives at 135 bloomfield boulevard bloomfield township and her property is 340 fremont right adjacent to this development and i want you to know for the record she was never ever contacted once the first time we ever heard about this project was in the detroit free press on january January 25th, 2026, and so I, for the record, just want to say that we're very disappointed that no one ever contacted us. Now, after the article came out, we all of a sudden got letters about this public hearing. But the actual Free Press article is the first time we ever heard about this, and her property is right next to this development. We have concerns, even though the property is vacant, it's still been in our family for a couple generations, and we want to make sure that it's not negatively impacted in terms of flooding. We notice on the site plan that there's a retention pond, a large one, right next to her property, and so we have concerns about that. I did send a certified letter, because I, as you can tell by my nervousness, I do not like public speaking, but we did put this in the record. We sent it by email and by certified mail. So hopefully in the future, there will be more communication. Just make sure that they have a copy of this letter, and they should. Yes. I'll share it with them. Yes. I think we have a check. You do? I'm sure we do. Well, make sure. Make sure. Yeah, I just want to make sure. Make sure. Yeah, I just want to make sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. Sorry. Thank you. please restart the clock. Thank you. As I stated before, my name is Julia Northcott. I am a property owner at 310 North Berkshire. I'm not going to address the proposal right now. I'm going to speak to the zoning singularly. There seem to be a lot of debates and connections

  89. a couple generations, and we want to make sure that it's not negatively impacted in terms of flooding. We notice on the site plan that there's a retention pond, a large one, right next to her property, and so we have concerns about that. I did send a certified letter, because I, as you can tell by my nervousness, I do not like public speaking, but we did put this in the record. We sent it by email and by certified mail. So hopefully in the future, there will be more communication. Just make sure that they have a copy of this letter, and they should. Yes. I'll share it with them. Yes. I think we have a check. You do? I'm sure we do. Well, make sure. Make sure. Yeah, I just want to make sure. Make sure. Yeah, I just want to make sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. Sorry. Thank you. please restart the clock. Thank you. As I stated before, my name is Julia Northcott. I am a property owner at 310 North Berkshire. I'm not going to address the proposal right now. I'm going to speak to the zoning singularly. There seem to be a lot of debates and connections being made as to what a banquet hall is most similar to. Is it similar to the current allowed special use categories? Is it not? The good news is we don't need to ask that question. It is answered by the Michigan building code, which classifies banquet halls in assembly group A2. What else is in assembly group A2? Restaurants with liquor licenses, bars, night clubs, taverns, and casinos, all of which are currently prohibited in research park zoning. Furthermore, I've done an exhaustive search of municipal code in the state of Michigan. There is not a single municipality with a comparable research park zoning that currently allows banquet halls, either as a land right or special use permission. It is simply not done. And the fact that this council is trying to allow that as a loophole and as way out of a rezoning process completely mitigates and annihilates the purpose of zoning. We did our diligence when we bought our property. We knew what we were building next to. We understood what it was allowed and what was not. We knew that we could live with that. As another of my neighbors said, we currently back to a research park. They're fantastic.

  90. now. I'm going to speak to the zoning singularly. There seem to be a lot of debates and connections being made as to what a banquet hall is most similar to. Is it similar to the current allowed special use categories? Is it not? The good news is we don't need to ask that question. It is answered by the Michigan building code, which classifies banquet halls in assembly group A2. What else is in assembly group A2? Restaurants with liquor licenses, bars, night clubs, taverns, and casinos, all of which are currently prohibited in research park zoning. Furthermore, I've done an exhaustive search of municipal code in the state of Michigan. There is not a single municipality with a comparable research park zoning that currently allows banquet halls, either as a land right or special use permission. It is simply not done. And the fact that this council is trying to allow that as a loophole and as way out of a rezoning process completely mitigates and annihilates the purpose of zoning. We did our diligence when we bought our property. We knew what we were building next to. We understood what it was allowed and what was not. We knew that we could live with that. As another of my neighbors said, we currently back to a research park. They're fantastic. neighbors we don't see hear nothing they create less disturbance than our actual neighbors do no problems and it is my children four children that i'm raising that i'm not going to be able to let play in our backyard anymore with a thousand drug people running around on our property line it is unconscionable that this is even a question that is being put or considered before the township and i uncategorically object to this proposal it is your responsibility as representatives as the township residents to reject this outright and end it right now thank you hello uh my name is new jabral i live at 320 north berkshire i bought my house in this most recent summer uh it's a beautiful neighborhood and the property that we're talking about is also very beautiful and i appreciate the designs that this developer is bringing forward but um on my concerns you know i i have many one we've already talked ad nauseum about the research park and the zoning and the like and i stand with my fellow neighbors more so have questions about the commission

  91. neighbors we don't see hear nothing they create less disturbance than our actual neighbors do no problems and it is my children four children that i'm raising that i'm not going to be able to let play in our backyard anymore with a thousand drug people running around on our property line it is unconscionable that this is even a question that is being put or considered before the township and i uncategorically object to this proposal it is your responsibility as representatives as the township residents to reject this outright and end it right now thank you hello uh my name is new jabral i live at 320 north berkshire i bought my house in this most recent summer uh it's a beautiful neighborhood and the property that we're talking about is also very beautiful and i appreciate the designs that this developer is bringing forward but um on my concerns you know i i have many one we've already talked ad nauseum about the research park and the zoning and the like and i stand with my fellow neighbors more so have questions about the commission i feel like and maybe i have a couple questions i'd like to have in the record that you can ask afterward one have you guys actually visited the the park and the boundary um are there any specific decibel limits i think there's outdoor events that are consistent It's basically going to be happening, what about amplified music, outdoor events? You're always going to have amplified music, even indoor events, late night parties. People like to go outside, have a smoke, take a break, it gets hot when you're around people. Doors are going to be opening and closing all the time. I live three houses down from the property, I never received any postcard or notice or anything. So all of this is coming very quickly, so I'm very concerned if there's a chance that this is going to be approved or voted on further today. I also have concerns about even how the question and answer system happened in the wetlands. It sort of seemed like people had a very specific question and whoever's handling the questions wasn't put in a great position. He's like, oh, it's a question about parking. You know, I don't think we're really getting our voices heard. I also have concerns about Mr. Addo with what he's talking about his own interest financially. I don't, I'm not going to speak on what that is or not, but I have a concern that he's bringing it up openly in front of people. Not just about being openly, but he might have a different interest if that's what he's talking about.

  92. zoning and the like and i stand with my fellow neighbors more so have questions about the commission i feel like and maybe i have a couple questions i'd like to have in the record that you can ask afterward one have you guys actually visited the the park and the boundary um are there any specific decibel limits i think there's outdoor events that are consistent It's basically going to be happening, what about amplified music, outdoor events? You're always going to have amplified music, even indoor events, late night parties. People like to go outside, have a smoke, take a break, it gets hot when you're around people. Doors are going to be opening and closing all the time. I live three houses down from the property, I never received any postcard or notice or anything. So all of this is coming very quickly, so I'm very concerned if there's a chance that this is going to be approved or voted on further today. I also have concerns about even how the question and answer system happened in the wetlands. It sort of seemed like people had a very specific question and whoever's handling the questions wasn't put in a great position. He's like, oh, it's a question about parking. You know, I don't think we're really getting our voices heard. I also have concerns about Mr. Addo with what he's talking about his own interest financially. I don't, I'm not going to speak on what that is or not, but I have a concern that he's bringing it up openly in front of people. Not just about being openly, but he might have a different interest if that's what he's talking about. I have concerns about talking about the research park where, yes, all those things are indoor. This is outdoor. I've been to large weddings and I love them, and I think that would be a beautiful place, but not next to all these houses where you're having amplified music. How do you handle, there's questions on how do you even handle traffic, you know, moving in and out, all people moving all at one time. People are allowed when they leave these events, especially if you're drunk, right? so concerns about alcohol too I've you know a child and one on the way and these are very concerns when you're growing a family and you know you want them to be able to go out in the neighborhood probably just in closing my concerns is that I feel like the Commission isn't really compassionate or hearing the people you listen to us for our three minutes but it seems like we very quickly get shoved away and things get moved forward so thank you for your time good evening my name is Beth Kalusniak and I live at 216 North Berkshire Road directly adjacent to the parcel proposed to be rezoned and I strongly oppose this

  93. Not just about being openly, but he might have a different interest if that's what he's talking about. I have concerns about talking about the research park where, yes, all those things are indoor. This is outdoor. I've been to large weddings and I love them, and I think that would be a beautiful place, but not next to all these houses where you're having amplified music. How do you handle, there's questions on how do you even handle traffic, you know, moving in and out, all people moving all at one time. People are allowed when they leave these events, especially if you're drunk, right? so concerns about alcohol too I've you know a child and one on the way and these are very concerns when you're growing a family and you know you want them to be able to go out in the neighborhood probably just in closing my concerns is that I feel like the Commission isn't really compassionate or hearing the people you listen to us for our three minutes but it seems like we very quickly get shoved away and things get moved forward so thank you for your time good evening my name is Beth Kalusniak and I live at 216 North Berkshire Road directly adjacent to the parcel proposed to be rezoned and I strongly oppose this request the existing research park they are indeed quiet neighbors with predictable traffic and minimal disruption to any surrounding properties a banquet hall especially this one as designed is not not comparable use at all it is not even comparable to any of the special uses that's currently in the thing all of which would have to come before this Commission and all of us would be here to shoot those down as well and to ask please for you to do the same this is a high-intensity event-based commercial operation that concentrates large numbers of guests vehicles lighting amplified sound particularly during weekend and evening Banquet halls generate a huge amount of traffic with surges of vehicles arrivals and departures and headlights shining into our neighborhood properties Noise is an even more serious concern one that is impossible to mitigate based on the design itself and based on the use Beyond vehicle noise the property has an amphitheater outdoor gathering areas with the operator Publicly stating there will be amplified music high attendance outdoor events and late-night celebrations

  94. directly adjacent to the parcel proposed to be rezoned and I strongly oppose this request the existing research park they are indeed quiet neighbors with predictable traffic and minimal disruption to any surrounding properties a banquet hall especially this one as designed is not not comparable use at all it is not even comparable to any of the special uses that's currently in the thing all of which would have to come before this Commission and all of us would be here to shoot those down as well and to ask please for you to do the same this is a high-intensity event-based commercial operation that concentrates large numbers of guests vehicles lighting amplified sound particularly during weekend and evening Banquet halls generate a huge amount of traffic with surges of vehicles arrivals and departures and headlights shining into our neighborhood properties Noise is an even more serious concern one that is impossible to mitigate based on the design itself and based on the use Beyond vehicle noise the property has an amphitheater outdoor gathering areas with the operator Publicly stating there will be amplified music high attendance outdoor events and late-night celebrations He said that here and he said that in the news Even with imposed conditions enforcement is reactive and not effective once the facility is operational We have already experienced the townships inability to shield nearby residents from the impacts associated with the m1 development in Pontiac Township residents have raised concerns only to be told by the township staff and the supervisor directly that the township cannot control the m1 effects and noise because it is not in the township well You know what now you can you can control the effects of this piece of property on The residents by not allowing rezoning for a banquet hall with built-in outdoor entertainment areas Further under the aforementioned Michigan Zoning Enabling Act a banquet hall is not a demonstrated need Introducing high-intensity entertainment into a research park is not consistent It will inherently and unreasonably interfere with our quiet enjoyment of our properties Approving a rezoning that clearly and foreseeably creates these impacts exposes both the operator and the township to ongoing disputes and litigation. I relied on the existing research park zoning when purchasing and investing in my property.

  95. Publicly stating there will be amplified music high attendance outdoor events and late-night celebrations He said that here and he said that in the news Even with imposed conditions enforcement is reactive and not effective once the facility is operational We have already experienced the townships inability to shield nearby residents from the impacts associated with the m1 development in Pontiac Township residents have raised concerns only to be told by the township staff and the supervisor directly that the township cannot control the m1 effects and noise because it is not in the township well You know what now you can you can control the effects of this piece of property on The residents by not allowing rezoning for a banquet hall with built-in outdoor entertainment areas Further under the aforementioned Michigan Zoning Enabling Act a banquet hall is not a demonstrated need Introducing high-intensity entertainment into a research park is not consistent It will inherently and unreasonably interfere with our quiet enjoyment of our properties Approving a rezoning that clearly and foreseeably creates these impacts exposes both the operator and the township to ongoing disputes and litigation. I relied on the existing research park zoning when purchasing and investing in my property. If this proceeds, despite its clear incompatibility and foreseeable impacts, I, along with everybody else, are going to pursue under law actions related to nuisance, reduction in property value, or any other remedy. We will have no choice. You've told us before that if you had the power to mitigate the noise and the impact you would, I respectfully ask that you do that, that you deny the rezoning and protect our property owners from harm. Thank you. Hi, my name is Doug Willoughby. I'm at 71 South Berkshire. We've lived there since 1968, off and on, in between, but basically we've been there forever. You know, I didn't plan on speaking, getting up and speaking. I completely oppose this proposal, but honestly, everything's been said well. I'm concerned, though, that perhaps it's been ignored. I came here today more as an education for myself. This whole proposal doesn't pass the reasonable man theory. Mr. Right. Jay, my son. Mr.

  96. I relied on the existing research park zoning when purchasing and investing in my property. If this proceeds, despite its clear incompatibility and foreseeable impacts, I, along with everybody else, are going to pursue under law actions related to nuisance, reduction in property value, or any other remedy. We will have no choice. You've told us before that if you had the power to mitigate the noise and the impact you would, I respectfully ask that you do that, that you deny the rezoning and protect our property owners from harm. Thank you. Hi, my name is Doug Willoughby. I'm at 71 South Berkshire. We've lived there since 1968, off and on, in between, but basically we've been there forever. You know, I didn't plan on speaking, getting up and speaking. I completely oppose this proposal, but honestly, everything's been said well. I'm concerned, though, that perhaps it's been ignored. I came here today more as an education for myself. This whole proposal doesn't pass the reasonable man theory. Mr. Right. Jay, my son. Mr. I mean, it smells bad from a perspective of everyone on this board to consider a banquet hall as a legitimate special purpose for a research park. These people, especially the ones close to it, including me, we're close enough that we're going to hear all the noise also, assume that it would be a research park that would go in there. And that's a reasonable assumption. Any reasonable man would come to that conclusion, right? When you think of research park, you don't think about a thousand drunk people and loud music and all the rest that goes along with an outdoor, indoor wedding venue. So this has really been very educational for me to be sitting here and watching and listening and watching the looks on the faces, the chairperson who spends more time looking at the clock than the person who's talking to him. The man who has a vested interest. This is called conflict of interest. If you were in a publicly held company, you would be up by everybody, every stockholder, you would be on line for it.

  97. I mean, it smells bad from a perspective of everyone on this board to consider a banquet hall as a legitimate special purpose for a research park. These people, especially the ones close to it, including me, we're close enough that we're going to hear all the noise also, assume that it would be a research park that would go in there. And that's a reasonable assumption. Any reasonable man would come to that conclusion, right? When you think of research park, you don't think about a thousand drunk people and loud music and all the rest that goes along with an outdoor, indoor wedding venue. So this has really been very educational for me to be sitting here and watching and listening and watching the looks on the faces, the chairperson who spends more time looking at the clock than the person who's talking to him. The man who has a vested interest. This is called conflict of interest. If you were in a publicly held company, you would be up by everybody, every stockholder, you would be on line for it. And I would contend, really, the only currency that you have is the trust of the people in the township. You vote yes on this. The truth is this. You. The truth is this. lost that currency. This whole board becomes, this whole process becomes a joke because we don't believe you. Nothing, I mean, I've heard nothing reasonable. This is absurd to use Greg's position. I am, I am livid. I came in here with kind of just a, you know, hey, you know, let's find out a little bit more about how something like this could happen. And I'm at the point where I will campaign against every board member on the Board of Trustees if this goes through. I don't know how you got your, okay. Anyway, obviously I'm upset. I wasn't upset until I saw your attitudes, candidly. And conflict, well, at least you disclosed it. I mean, bravo for being upfront about that. I mean, what are we doing here? Sorry. Thank you very much for your time.

  98. If you were in a publicly held company, you would be up by everybody, every stockholder, you would be on line for it. And I would contend, really, the only currency that you have is the trust of the people in the township. You vote yes on this. The truth is this. You. The truth is this. lost that currency. This whole board becomes, this whole process becomes a joke because we don't believe you. Nothing, I mean, I've heard nothing reasonable. This is absurd to use Greg's position. I am, I am livid. I came in here with kind of just a, you know, hey, you know, let's find out a little bit more about how something like this could happen. And I'm at the point where I will campaign against every board member on the Board of Trustees if this goes through. I don't know how you got your, okay. Anyway, obviously I'm upset. I wasn't upset until I saw your attitudes, candidly. And conflict, well, at least you disclosed it. I mean, bravo for being upfront about that. I mean, what are we doing here? Sorry. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. I'm going to be short and sweet on this. Well, maybe not sweet. My name is Stanley Ralph Wendler. I live at 194 North Berkshire with my wife, Judy. We've been there since the middle of 1977. I have gone around the world, six of the seven continents. I've visited other people other places and i've had those people come to our place and 201 every one of the my guests from other places have said you live in a park what a great place to live and i said yeah it has been great but i was surprised about three weeks ago when i found out how stupidly run this place could actually be i didn't know that there was going to be any consideration of a research park change in my backyard effectively i didn't know it nobody has come to visit us this is not the way that a government should be treating its residents

  99. Sorry. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you. I'm going to be short and sweet on this. Well, maybe not sweet. My name is Stanley Ralph Wendler. I live at 194 North Berkshire with my wife, Judy. We've been there since the middle of 1977. I have gone around the world, six of the seven continents. I've visited other people other places and i've had those people come to our place and 201 every one of the my guests from other places have said you live in a park what a great place to live and i said yeah it has been great but i was surprised about three weeks ago when i found out how stupidly run this place could actually be i didn't know that there was going to be any consideration of a research park change in my backyard effectively i didn't know it nobody has come to visit us this is not the way that a government should be treating its residents you are there to serve you are there to come through with a good plan coming through in an orderly fashion and this is backwards absolutely backwards you have come for comment and we have not had any comment opportunity until now and now is the time that you want to have a decision made that's stupid and i expect you to rectify that tonight thank you you Good evening. My name is Arlene Pirat and I live at 210 South Berkshire Road. I'm here to record my strong opposition specifically to the Bloomfield hollow site and also the proposed zoning amendment. Both represent a fundamental departure from the charter township of Bloomfield's master plan and our established zoning ordinances. The research park district was codified for a specific purpose, low intensity, professional daytime activity. By design, it's

  100. has come to visit us this is not the way that a government should be treating its residents you are there to serve you are there to come through with a good plan coming through in an orderly fashion and this is backwards absolutely backwards you have come for comment and we have not had any comment opportunity until now and now is the time that you want to have a decision made that's stupid and i expect you to rectify that tonight thank you you Good evening. My name is Arlene Pirat and I live at 210 South Berkshire Road. I'm here to record my strong opposition specifically to the Bloomfield hollow site and also the proposed zoning amendment. Both represent a fundamental departure from the charter township of Bloomfield's master plan and our established zoning ordinances. The research park district was codified for a specific purpose, low intensity, professional daytime activity. By design, it's meant to be harmonious with the surrounding residential community. The research park district is one of the many districts and there are other ones, B3, B4, many of those would be more accommodating than research park for something like a banquet hall. Approving this amendment for our P zone feels like an isolated use to benefit a developer rather than the community. It feels like we're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that's going to have lots of cash coming. And frankly, once we erode the definition of research park, I'm afraid we're going to lose the future standing to protect any future neighborhoods from additional commercial enforcement. I want to be clear. I'm very familiar with banquet halls. I have been a bridesmaid more times than I can count. I love the celebration, time with friends. with family so I'm not opposed to banquet halls but I am the way that this is being organized and in my backyard at the end of the day I know the operational realities with a banquet hall amplified music crowd noise high

  101. was codified for a specific purpose, low intensity, professional daytime activity. By design, it's meant to be harmonious with the surrounding residential community. The research park district is one of the many districts and there are other ones, B3, B4, many of those would be more accommodating than research park for something like a banquet hall. Approving this amendment for our P zone feels like an isolated use to benefit a developer rather than the community. It feels like we're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole that's going to have lots of cash coming. And frankly, once we erode the definition of research park, I'm afraid we're going to lose the future standing to protect any future neighborhoods from additional commercial enforcement. I want to be clear. I'm very familiar with banquet halls. I have been a bridesmaid more times than I can count. I love the celebration, time with friends. with family so I'm not opposed to banquet halls but I am the way that this is being organized and in my backyard at the end of the day I know the operational realities with a banquet hall amplified music crowd noise high intensity lighting alcohol related activity and honestly these are not one-time events it's gonna be day after night after weekend after week 360 five days a year it really fundamentally reduces the livability of our residences this project creates a direct conflict with the peace and quality of life that my family and these neighbors and the value of our homes is absolutely going to go down after this because who's gonna want to buy a house right behind a banquet hall probably nobody so I also think it's highly questionable that we're hosting hearings for site plans and variances whether for wetlands or for design for a development that's not yet legally permitted in this district everything is backwards and it doesn't make sense and that's why people are angry and they're frustrated and I don't feel that you guys have adequately communicated with the residents of this neighborhood the people who are gonna bear this burden is everybody here so honestly I urge the board to reject this amendment please do not

  102. operational realities with a banquet hall amplified music crowd noise high intensity lighting alcohol related activity and honestly these are not one-time events it's gonna be day after night after weekend after week 360 five days a year it really fundamentally reduces the livability of our residences this project creates a direct conflict with the peace and quality of life that my family and these neighbors and the value of our homes is absolutely going to go down after this because who's gonna want to buy a house right behind a banquet hall probably nobody so I also think it's highly questionable that we're hosting hearings for site plans and variances whether for wetlands or for design for a development that's not yet legally permitted in this district everything is backwards and it doesn't make sense and that's why people are angry and they're frustrated and I don't feel that you guys have adequately communicated with the residents of this neighborhood the people who are gonna bear this burden is everybody here so honestly I urge the board to reject this amendment please do not the long-term character of what you describe as a premier residential community for a commercial project that simply does not fit good evening my name is Val Murray I live on Ballantrae Road for the past 40 years I do not live in this subdivision I'm here on behalf of just speaking to the residents the residents have been reaching out they're upset and I get it if you look back at our master plan and our updated strategic plan what do the residents want all the residents want more green space less development parks admit this would make a great park has that even been considered if I'm not mistaken I believe this was zoned residential before it was made research park so now we're going to take another step and would any of us really want a banquet hall with a thousand people regularly in our backyards there's so many other uses and in terms of getting questions answered the developer talked about an amphitheater repeatedly then we're told there's no amphitheater but they keep saying amphitheater that

  103. the long-term character of what you describe as a premier residential community for a commercial project that simply does not fit good evening my name is Val Murray I live on Ballantrae Road for the past 40 years I do not live in this subdivision I'm here on behalf of just speaking to the residents the residents have been reaching out they're upset and I get it if you look back at our master plan and our updated strategic plan what do the residents want all the residents want more green space less development parks admit this would make a great park has that even been considered if I'm not mistaken I believe this was zoned residential before it was made research park so now we're going to take another step and would any of us really want a banquet hall with a thousand people regularly in our backyards there's so many other uses and in terms of getting questions answered the developer talked about an amphitheater repeatedly then we're told there's no amphitheater but they keep saying amphitheater that says outdoor noise I've also heard the developer talk about phases two and three what are phases two and three oh I don't know you need to know this before you make the decision. This is not something to take lightly. You know, on top of it, when I saw the plan, the building is right on top of the houses and the special nature feature with the water. Why are we building right around and on top of it? Why aren't they considering the northeast side of that lot further away from the residents if that's where you really want to go with this? I just, I think it's all wrong and I didn't really plan on speaking tonight but I feel strongly so I hope you just think carefully for all the residents because I don't think this community wants to see this in anybody's backyard because, you know, we've stopped doing sports courts in backyards because everybody's doing them and some of

  104. then we're told there's no amphitheater but they keep saying amphitheater that says outdoor noise I've also heard the developer talk about phases two and three what are phases two and three oh I don't know you need to know this before you make the decision. This is not something to take lightly. You know, on top of it, when I saw the plan, the building is right on top of the houses and the special nature feature with the water. Why are we building right around and on top of it? Why aren't they considering the northeast side of that lot further away from the residents if that's where you really want to go with this? I just, I think it's all wrong and I didn't really plan on speaking tonight but I feel strongly so I hope you just think carefully for all the residents because I don't think this community wants to see this in anybody's backyard because, you know, we've stopped doing sports courts in backyards because everybody's doing them and some of them are right on top of neighbors and that's gotten to be a negative situation. So those have been halted for now. But I thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Hello. My name is Dr. Adel Rushdie. I own one of the biggest properties on Berkshire. I live on 50 North Berkshire. I'm against this project because it's like it's the wrong place for... Thank you. And we also have a lot of noise issues because this is where Woodward and Telegraph kind of converge, it's just not the right place for a banquet hall. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hi, my name's Brian Diazio, I live in Bluefield Township. The proposal that is in play right now doesn't immediately would impact me. I am south of Square Lake. Kind of what I'm shocked is at this point we're discussing a proposal from a developer where at least I haven't seen a comprehensive plan to address most of these folks

  105. we've stopped doing sports courts in backyards because everybody's doing them and some of them are right on top of neighbors and that's gotten to be a negative situation. So those have been halted for now. But I thank you for your time. Thank you very much. Hello. My name is Dr. Adel Rushdie. I own one of the biggest properties on Berkshire. I live on 50 North Berkshire. I'm against this project because it's like it's the wrong place for... Thank you. And we also have a lot of noise issues because this is where Woodward and Telegraph kind of converge, it's just not the right place for a banquet hall. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hi, my name's Brian Diazio, I live in Bluefield Township. The proposal that is in play right now doesn't immediately would impact me. I am south of Square Lake. Kind of what I'm shocked is at this point we're discussing a proposal from a developer where at least I haven't seen a comprehensive plan to address most of these folks concerns, which they brought up repeatedly, which I would think from a developer standpoint, from a township standpoint, would have been vetted out before we even got to this point, which is noise. How are we going to handle it? Alcohol, techniques and alcohol management. What are we going to do on our property? What are we going to do to confine it? What are we going to do? Bluefield Township has told us repeatedly in my neighborhood to have no control over the roads. Well, what are we doing with the traffic at that point from these? It's all egress, ingress. I've worked with. But learning concerns can actually get us into this problem uh. What are we going to do? Thank you. public for years and it's always in short bursts people coming in people getting out so forth and so on and what do we do with that are we who's paying for that is the Township Police Department are they getting an increased budget from that and I would think from a you know I'm not slamming the developer but I would think from at least my perspective that's worked in To the dangers. the marketing position when you go in and you need to convince I don't think they need to convince you I think they need to convince them folks there what

  106. where at least I haven't seen a comprehensive plan to address most of these folks concerns, which they brought up repeatedly, which I would think from a developer standpoint, from a township standpoint, would have been vetted out before we even got to this point, which is noise. How are we going to handle it? Alcohol, techniques and alcohol management. What are we going to do on our property? What are we going to do to confine it? What are we going to do? Bluefield Township has told us repeatedly in my neighborhood to have no control over the roads. Well, what are we doing with the traffic at that point from these? It's all egress, ingress. I've worked with. But learning concerns can actually get us into this problem uh. What are we going to do? Thank you. public for years and it's always in short bursts people coming in people getting out so forth and so on and what do we do with that are we who's paying for that is the Township Police Department are they getting an increased budget from that and I would think from a you know I'm not slamming the developer but I would think from at least my perspective that's worked in To the dangers. the marketing position when you go in and you need to convince I don't think they need to convince you I think they need to convince them folks there what they're gonna do and how they're gonna go about it and have that all worked out before you even come to a public forum mr. salts before you even come here to air it out in public because when and I'll tell you I've been here from Bloomfield Park which nobody was for and got forced on our throats when target came in target came to my neighborhood and several other neighborhoods sat down with as a group laid out exactly what they're gonna do how they're gonna do it and they said what do you think and we made suggestions about well you know they wanted to have a exit on the square lake we go and we don't think that's a good idea we don't want to do that it's gonna be spilling people unneedlessly at all hours in our neighborhood guess what they close it up they took suggestions and Implemented those suggestions by having us as Residents have some input. We felt we had ownership over that project And felt better about it hasn't been perfect. No None of us going to be perfect

  107. they need to convince you I think they need to convince them folks there what they're gonna do and how they're gonna go about it and have that all worked out before you even come to a public forum mr. salts before you even come here to air it out in public because when and I'll tell you I've been here from Bloomfield Park which nobody was for and got forced on our throats when target came in target came to my neighborhood and several other neighborhoods sat down with as a group laid out exactly what they're gonna do how they're gonna do it and they said what do you think and we made suggestions about well you know they wanted to have a exit on the square lake we go and we don't think that's a good idea we don't want to do that it's gonna be spilling people unneedlessly at all hours in our neighborhood guess what they close it up they took suggestions and Implemented those suggestions by having us as Residents have some input. We felt we had ownership over that project And felt better about it hasn't been perfect. No None of us going to be perfect Just as much as when at the corner of Square Lake and Telegraph a Developer who's well entrenched in this community Irk of Jonah took a property took a zoning and Migrated it to a whole nother thing and then put in a strip mall there against our neighbors our Neighborhood our Forest Lake Objection because what is it going to do? More traffic more speeding more garbage more Theft coming through the neighborhood we were shot down so I would suggest to these folks here to have skin in the game as They go forward you may not be able to stop it But fight it to help shape it to get it as best as you can Because I think what I'm hearing from what I'm hearing is it's kind of like well It's going to be like Sylvan table so far and so on or something tables a different property It's got a big green space buffer zone between the residents the property and things that they're doing here and from what I I haven't seen that you saw a little plan up here and This young lady I have nothing against her, but she's referring to banquet

  108. None of us going to be perfect Just as much as when at the corner of Square Lake and Telegraph a Developer who's well entrenched in this community Irk of Jonah took a property took a zoning and Migrated it to a whole nother thing and then put in a strip mall there against our neighbors our Neighborhood our Forest Lake Objection because what is it going to do? More traffic more speeding more garbage more Theft coming through the neighborhood we were shot down so I would suggest to these folks here to have skin in the game as They go forward you may not be able to stop it But fight it to help shape it to get it as best as you can Because I think what I'm hearing from what I'm hearing is it's kind of like well It's going to be like Sylvan table so far and so on or something tables a different property It's got a big green space buffer zone between the residents the property and things that they're doing here and from what I I haven't seen that you saw a little plan up here and This young lady I have nothing against her, but she's referring to banquet hall she's talking about telegraph and roma hall in the 1980s when this was a fly speck out in the middle of nowhere and by the way where bloomfield park at there was a driving theater there sir your time is up your time is up sir oh okay sorry sorry to run on it's not fair to you and we cut this woman i appreciate you bringing that to my attention mr solid thank you appreciate good evening i'm rosalyn north cross i came initially because i'm from pontiac and i was concerned about potential of flooding from this project but since i've been listening here i'm also concerned about the noise i've been in my home in pontiac for over 50 years and pontiac has ignored residents requests about m1 in fact pontiac entered into an agreement which will increase the noise levels up to 110 decibels from auto events this summer so between the proposed banquet development and m1 it might get loud unfortunately pontiac people didn't anticipate that the car condos and

  109. hall she's talking about telegraph and roma hall in the 1980s when this was a fly speck out in the middle of nowhere and by the way where bloomfield park at there was a driving theater there sir your time is up your time is up sir oh okay sorry sorry to run on it's not fair to you and we cut this woman i appreciate you bringing that to my attention mr solid thank you appreciate good evening i'm rosalyn north cross i came initially because i'm from pontiac and i was concerned about potential of flooding from this project but since i've been listening here i'm also concerned about the noise i've been in my home in pontiac for over 50 years and pontiac has ignored residents requests about m1 in fact pontiac entered into an agreement which will increase the noise levels up to 110 decibels from auto events this summer so between the proposed banquet development and m1 it might get loud unfortunately pontiac people didn't anticipate that the car condos and the test track would morph into what has become today i applaud the homeowners here for speaking up and speaking on this issue, because once it's done, additional phases will only make the situation worse. Thank you. All right, let's bring it back here. Anybody have any questions? You have something to say. I just... Yeah, it's close. Close the public hearing. Okay. Go ahead. You know, this board works, we work really hard to accommodate not only the residents, yet also the property owner. And the criticism, some of it is just completely wrong, and it's not right. It's, when I say not right, it's not truthful. So, we're trying to follow the proper order of an orderly meeting, so that you do have the opportunity to hear, we can hear your voice, and that we can actually collaborate as a board and make decisions. That's it. I only say that because people are criticizing some of the way things are happening up here.

  110. and m1 it might get loud unfortunately pontiac people didn't anticipate that the car condos and the test track would morph into what has become today i applaud the homeowners here for speaking up and speaking on this issue, because once it's done, additional phases will only make the situation worse. Thank you. All right, let's bring it back here. Anybody have any questions? You have something to say. I just... Yeah, it's close. Close the public hearing. Okay. Go ahead. You know, this board works, we work really hard to accommodate not only the residents, yet also the property owner. And the criticism, some of it is just completely wrong, and it's not right. It's, when I say not right, it's not truthful. So, we're trying to follow the proper order of an orderly meeting, so that you do have the opportunity to hear, we can hear your voice, and that we can actually collaborate as a board and make decisions. That's it. I only say that because people are criticizing some of the way things are happening up here. Regarding what was said, and what is up here, I have some reservations. That's it. I mean, it seems like it may not be quite the fit. I have something I really need to say. Please do. I've been accused of having my mind made up. I've been cut off when I ask questions. I've been told I'm watching the clock. Well, I have to because I have to keep order. I've been told I'm not paying attention, not listening to you. And I would argue it is you who've made up. your minds about us before you even sat down you knew what we were thinking that's not true because you know what when I came in I hadn't I came in this morning had a meeting with the township to go over all this cuz I'm chair I have to look at it and I got I went home and I thought about it a lot I went over to see the property someone said I didn't even go over and look I did and I have to say I have a lot of reservations about not only the banquet part of it putting it changing the zoning but the project itself as well and so I'm gonna tell you who all made up your mind about me and accuse me of doing all these bad things I am NOT going to support changing the ordinance to put in the word banquet into that ordinance because I think no no no I don't want that I don't want that I

  111. That's it. I only say that because people are criticizing some of the way things are happening up here. Regarding what was said, and what is up here, I have some reservations. That's it. I mean, it seems like it may not be quite the fit. I have something I really need to say. Please do. I've been accused of having my mind made up. I've been cut off when I ask questions. I've been told I'm watching the clock. Well, I have to because I have to keep order. I've been told I'm not paying attention, not listening to you. And I would argue it is you who've made up. your minds about us before you even sat down you knew what we were thinking that's not true because you know what when I came in I hadn't I came in this morning had a meeting with the township to go over all this cuz I'm chair I have to look at it and I got I went home and I thought about it a lot I went over to see the property someone said I didn't even go over and look I did and I have to say I have a lot of reservations about not only the banquet part of it putting it changing the zoning but the project itself as well and so I'm gonna tell you who all made up your mind about me and accuse me of doing all these bad things I am NOT going to support changing the ordinance to put in the word banquet into that ordinance because I think no no no I don't want that I don't want that I don't think that the project but we'll talk about the project later that's not what we're talking about just the language in there I just don't think it's a spot zone is the correct thing to do and so I I'm just telling you why I don't think my I don't know if you're with me but I don't think that I can support changing and adding that in it so I just want to let you know that so don't prejudge us is there a verbiage that you would excuse me is there verbiage that you would support and before we get maybe into that discussion I do have a couple questions are there other locations in the township with banquet halls yes we the Eric well how was it to know yeah we I would say yes I mean we have iroquois club and then in terms of the i mean it's not a it's a i know that one aside from that an actual banquet hall i mean we have private country clubs but obviously that's not considered the same thing however they operate in the sense where they do have weddings but no they're not defined as a banquet hall they're identified separately in our ordinance as a country club and they're wonderful they've been great neighbors

  112. into that ordinance because I think no no no I don't want that I don't want that I don't think that the project but we'll talk about the project later that's not what we're talking about just the language in there I just don't think it's a spot zone is the correct thing to do and so I I'm just telling you why I don't think my I don't know if you're with me but I don't think that I can support changing and adding that in it so I just want to let you know that so don't prejudge us is there a verbiage that you would excuse me is there verbiage that you would support and before we get maybe into that discussion I do have a couple questions are there other locations in the township with banquet halls yes we the Eric well how was it to know yeah we I would say yes I mean we have iroquois club and then in terms of the i mean it's not a it's a i know that one aside from that an actual banquet hall i mean we have private country clubs but obviously that's not considered the same thing however they operate in the sense where they do have weddings but no they're not defined as a banquet hall they're identified separately in our ordinance as a country club and they're wonderful they've been great neighbors well you asked me if there's any verbiage that i would put in and i'm going to just say i i don't think so i don't think so you know i i took a course at michigan state before i did this about land use about planning and it was pretty specific about looking at the zoning and looking at what's what it's written and how it's interpreted and it was very much against spot zoning that was in michigan state um so i don't know that there's any language i and and they talked about people here talked about the master plan well yeah that's a good point the master plan is coming up the new master plan is going to be worked on next year a whole the whole thing i worked on that one that's there my name is right on it and it'll be on the next one too and sorry all of us are sorry we all of us are well back when it was written okay yeah we all are that's correct it will be working on a new one and maybe we have to look at that as well but i there's no no i i just don't think so i just don't hear your opinion so again i don't know if you'll agree or not agree but i'm just telling you what i think I was having it, I mean, that's a stretch for me. Any other comments? Anything? No, I mean, I get concerned. I mean, we've been very respectful to the neighbors, as we should be. We want to listen to you.

  113. well you asked me if there's any verbiage that i would put in and i'm going to just say i i don't think so i don't think so you know i i took a course at michigan state before i did this about land use about planning and it was pretty specific about looking at the zoning and looking at what's what it's written and how it's interpreted and it was very much against spot zoning that was in michigan state um so i don't know that there's any language i and and they talked about people here talked about the master plan well yeah that's a good point the master plan is coming up the new master plan is going to be worked on next year a whole the whole thing i worked on that one that's there my name is right on it and it'll be on the next one too and sorry all of us are sorry we all of us are well back when it was written okay yeah we all are that's correct it will be working on a new one and maybe we have to look at that as well but i there's no no i i just don't think so i just don't hear your opinion so again i don't know if you'll agree or not agree but i'm just telling you what i think I was having it, I mean, that's a stretch for me. Any other comments? Anything? No, I mean, I get concerned. I mean, we've been very respectful to the neighbors, as we should be. We want to listen to you. And at the same time, you need to respect us. We're doing our jobs, and we have not come in with any preordained ideas as far as what we're going to do. We got accused at the last board meeting that this was all made up. We've already decided. There's been violations of the Open Meetings Act. Well, that's insulting as hell, I've got to tell you. I've been on the board for 23 years. Never heard that one before. We listen to every plan as it's presented. It's every one of us have seen the property. Everyone has seen your neighborhood, and every one of us has heard you. So don't insult us, please, because we've been very respectful to you, as we should be. You're our residents. You are some of our neighbors. But at the same time, please give us the benefit of the doubt, because we know what we're doing. We've done this before, and we're not going to just come in with saying, okay, this is a done deal. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Okay, anybody? Okay, what do you want to do? I'd just like to say the same thing. I don't know.

  114. We want to listen to you. And at the same time, you need to respect us. We're doing our jobs, and we have not come in with any preordained ideas as far as what we're going to do. We got accused at the last board meeting that this was all made up. We've already decided. There's been violations of the Open Meetings Act. Well, that's insulting as hell, I've got to tell you. I've been on the board for 23 years. Never heard that one before. We listen to every plan as it's presented. It's every one of us have seen the property. Everyone has seen your neighborhood, and every one of us has heard you. So don't insult us, please, because we've been very respectful to you, as we should be. You're our residents. You are some of our neighbors. But at the same time, please give us the benefit of the doubt, because we know what we're doing. We've done this before, and we're not going to just come in with saying, okay, this is a done deal. It doesn't work that way. It never has. Okay, anybody? Okay, what do you want to do? I'd just like to say the same thing. I don't know. been on the board for 15 years. This is probably the most contentious meeting I've ever attended and it seems that all of you have walked in here thinking that we've all made up our minds already like like we're getting paid on the side or for something and that's that's not what we swore an oath to do. We're here to represent the township but we also are here to see progress in our township and our job is to weigh the pros and the cons and make the best decision for the township and the developer. So to come in here with the preconceived idea that we've been paid and and we're as somebody pointed out or something I don't know it's ridiculous and it's an insult to us for the time and energy that we put forth to represent you and the township and to make proper decisions. So that's all I have to say. Well we have a choice again three choices. Approve it, not approve it, or table it till we can get more information or perhaps more meetings with the developer. Those are the three choices. Okay I'd like to discuss that since I'm not going to be as snarky as some people have been. I will just say that I think the

  115. been on the board for 15 years. This is probably the most contentious meeting I've ever attended and it seems that all of you have walked in here thinking that we've all made up our minds already like like we're getting paid on the side or for something and that's that's not what we swore an oath to do. We're here to represent the township but we also are here to see progress in our township and our job is to weigh the pros and the cons and make the best decision for the township and the developer. So to come in here with the preconceived idea that we've been paid and and we're as somebody pointed out or something I don't know it's ridiculous and it's an insult to us for the time and energy that we put forth to represent you and the township and to make proper decisions. So that's all I have to say. Well we have a choice again three choices. Approve it, not approve it, or table it till we can get more information or perhaps more meetings with the developer. Those are the three choices. Okay I'd like to discuss that since I'm not going to be as snarky as some people have been. I will just say that I think the best approach for right now is as with a previous contentious issue which worked out to be pretty good for everybody is that. the developer, the developers, consultants really need to spend more time with the neighbors and really need to work with them. It's not to say it's a yes or no. It may not, it still may go through at some point, but obviously there's a lot of pushback and there needs to be some considerations. There needs to be listening and some changes and mitigation and addressing the concerns of the neighbors. And at that point, I think it should, if that happens, then bring it back to the planning commission and let's look at it again. But at this time, I certainly hear you and I think the developer needs to work with you more and to try again, whether it's putting, moving the property, putting a wall in, whatever it may be. The point is, if it ever comes back to the planning commission, if that were to happen where it's not passed,

  116. going to be as snarky as some people have been. I will just say that I think the best approach for right now is as with a previous contentious issue which worked out to be pretty good for everybody is that. the developer, the developers, consultants really need to spend more time with the neighbors and really need to work with them. It's not to say it's a yes or no. It may not, it still may go through at some point, but obviously there's a lot of pushback and there needs to be some considerations. There needs to be listening and some changes and mitigation and addressing the concerns of the neighbors. And at that point, I think it should, if that happens, then bring it back to the planning commission and let's look at it again. But at this time, I certainly hear you and I think the developer needs to work with you more and to try again, whether it's putting, moving the property, putting a wall in, whatever it may be. The point is, if it ever comes back to the planning commission, if that were to happen where it's not passed, there's always going to be many conditions that are going to be part of an approval process if we get there. So with that said, I think it's in the best interest of everyone at this time that we table this, look at it, have the, really implore the developer and his team to work with the residents as much as possible to try and address as many of your realistic concerns. as they can support okay discussion i just like to make one one comment somebody brought up the target situation and i can share with you that i controlled that property i used to own hillside furniture and that property was purchased by me with total control as to what went next door to me honestly and truthfully it was done because i didn't want our van moving next door to me so i wanted to control what was there and i got a phone call from the developer that target was interested in the property a wonderful company and i will agree with i forget who made that comment about target but they when they originally designed their building their garbage was facing my door okay where they put their garbage i simply called the the folks who were in charge they completely

  117. if it ever comes back to the planning commission, if that were to happen where it's not passed, there's always going to be many conditions that are going to be part of an approval process if we get there. So with that said, I think it's in the best interest of everyone at this time that we table this, look at it, have the, really implore the developer and his team to work with the residents as much as possible to try and address as many of your realistic concerns. as they can support okay discussion i just like to make one one comment somebody brought up the target situation and i can share with you that i controlled that property i used to own hillside furniture and that property was purchased by me with total control as to what went next door to me honestly and truthfully it was done because i didn't want our van moving next door to me so i wanted to control what was there and i got a phone call from the developer that target was interested in the property a wonderful company and i will agree with i forget who made that comment about target but they when they originally designed their building their garbage was facing my door okay where they put their garbage i simply called the the folks who were in charge they completely changed the plan so people do listen okay we're here to listen and i think the right move is to table this that was my decision 30 minutes into this conversation you know when we get all of our we're here to represent you but again to represent the developers as well but when we see that there's so much anger and misinformation or whatever that's the reason for tabling this is to bring it so everybody sits down and gets all the right information i just want to make one clarification though we're talking about the banquet hall changing the zoning adding that the banquet hall not the project okay so that's one step at a time now we could well we can't join it because we have to have to do the proper order so right now I think we're just tabling the the question the text amendment okay is that correct yes okay that was a motion just tabling that okay and I had supported it and you support that okay so I'll call for a vote all those in favor of tabling say aye aye aye any opposed okay the next thing now now the question is since that's changed we have the next item is the light the site plan so I'm sorry that sure so just because

  118. okay where they put their garbage i simply called the the folks who were in charge they completely changed the plan so people do listen okay we're here to listen and i think the right move is to table this that was my decision 30 minutes into this conversation you know when we get all of our we're here to represent you but again to represent the developers as well but when we see that there's so much anger and misinformation or whatever that's the reason for tabling this is to bring it so everybody sits down and gets all the right information i just want to make one clarification though we're talking about the banquet hall changing the zoning adding that the banquet hall not the project okay so that's one step at a time now we could well we can't join it because we have to have to do the proper order so right now I think we're just tabling the the question the text amendment okay is that correct yes okay that was a motion just tabling that okay and I had supported it and you support that okay so I'll call for a vote all those in favor of tabling say aye aye aye any opposed okay the next thing now now the question is since that's changed we have the next item is the light the site plan so I'm sorry that sure so just because item 4a was tabled we necessarily need to table 4b because it was reviewing a special land use that would be required thank you thank you the motion to do thanks Sonny and I will make the motion that we table the site plan review at this time since it really is connected to the text amendment support oh I'm sorry I didn't see it any discussion on that part of the motion they're not all those in favor say aye aye any opposed okay and I would just like to say on top of that the planning building ordinance department is open for residents always open to have conversations so I guess without more communication without suggesting some of these I mean it's that has to happen for this guy it comes back to us so we're at this point it's not not approved is what it is right Okay, thank you all for coming and voicing your opinions. And we did listen, obviously. All right, next. All right, so continue.

  119. the next item is the light the site plan so I'm sorry that sure so just because item 4a was tabled we necessarily need to table 4b because it was reviewing a special land use that would be required thank you thank you the motion to do thanks Sonny and I will make the motion that we table the site plan review at this time since it really is connected to the text amendment support oh I'm sorry I didn't see it any discussion on that part of the motion they're not all those in favor say aye aye any opposed okay and I would just like to say on top of that the planning building ordinance department is open for residents always open to have conversations so I guess without more communication without suggesting some of these I mean it's that has to happen for this guy it comes back to us so we're at this point it's not not approved is what it is right Okay, thank you all for coming and voicing your opinions. And we did listen, obviously. All right, next. All right, so continue. All right, let's just take two minutes. Thank you, though, I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

  120. All right, let's just take two minutes. Thank you, though, I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, you're Kelly. Oh, my God. Oh, I hate you. That's why I thought you were ringing. Oh, I hate you. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Thank you.

  121. Oh, you're Kelly. Oh, my God. Oh, I hate you. That's why I thought you were ringing. Oh, I hate you. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I know. I'm used to it. Let's plow through this thing and finish it. I would continue the meeting. Oh, he's being interviewed by Channel 7. Yeah. All right. All right. But we have to have everybody back either. You don't have to have everybody. You just have to have quorum. I know. I'm dead sitting against this project. You know what? I can't say that now. I can say it to you.

  122. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I know. I'm used to it. Let's plow through this thing and finish it. I would continue the meeting. Oh, he's being interviewed by Channel 7. Yeah. All right. All right. But we have to have everybody back either. You don't have to have everybody. You just have to have quorum. I know. I'm dead sitting against this project. You know what? I can't say that now. I can say it to you. We're not done yet. We're in the middle of the meeting, actually. Deal. We're in the middle of the meeting. Shall we reconvene? Let's go. All right. We do. Why don't you convene the service? Corey. Let's continue with this meeting. Let's continue with this meeting. The only other thing we have is the items not on the agenda. Anybody have anything? Thank you. Well, it's the annual report, right? What? Oh, the annual report. Come on, let's get the general business going. Yes, I would like to continue. Oh, I'm looking at the wetlands thing. Sorry. You know what? What do they do? Annual report. Okay, Chair, we'll start our meeting, right? Okay, I know. Okay. Okay. So the next item on your agenda is our annual presentation of the annual report. Every year, our planning division prepares an annual report to identify the various projects, site plan, and all the hard work that has been put in by our various boards.

  123. I can say it to you. We're not done yet. We're in the middle of the meeting, actually. Deal. We're in the middle of the meeting. Shall we reconvene? Let's go. All right. We do. Why don't you convene the service? Corey. Let's continue with this meeting. Let's continue with this meeting. The only other thing we have is the items not on the agenda. Anybody have anything? Thank you. Well, it's the annual report, right? What? Oh, the annual report. Come on, let's get the general business going. Yes, I would like to continue. Oh, I'm looking at the wetlands thing. Sorry. You know what? What do they do? Annual report. Okay, Chair, we'll start our meeting, right? Okay, I know. Okay. Okay. So the next item on your agenda is our annual presentation of the annual report. Every year, our planning division prepares an annual report to identify the various projects, site plan, and all the hard work that has been put in by our various boards. So I have presented you. You have a copy within your packet. I would want to highlight that in 2025, we had approximately 16 site plan reviews, the Planning Commission, which is up four from 2024. So we had a very busy year last year. So this is just an opportunity for us to share with the board what... Do you want me to close the doors? We can. Do you want me to? Yeah. I'll do it. That will be great. Thank you. thank you I will I will make this brief however I will in here to answer any questions but I we do have you guys have your Planning Commission bylaws and as part of those bylaws it does state that every second meeting in February that the Planning Division provides you with a annual

  124. Every year, our planning division prepares an annual report to identify the various projects, site plan, and all the hard work that has been put in by our various boards. So I have presented you. You have a copy within your packet. I would want to highlight that in 2025, we had approximately 16 site plan reviews, the Planning Commission, which is up four from 2024. So we had a very busy year last year. So this is just an opportunity for us to share with the board what... Do you want me to close the doors? We can. Do you want me to? Yeah. I'll do it. That will be great. Thank you. thank you I will I will make this brief however I will in here to answer any questions but I we do have you guys have your Planning Commission bylaws and as part of those bylaws it does state that every second meeting in February that the Planning Division provides you with a annual report highlighting the various decisions that were made by the bodies throughout the years and we also provide a historical record so you can see the trajectory of the progress that we've been making so with that I can I would ask that the township consider making a motion to accept the town the Planning staff report or the annual report I just want to note that Kelly Jacobson and our department works very hard to tally and put together this report and does a beautiful job every year and so I would ask for you to take a look and see that the Planning Commission saw 99 not a hundred ninety-nine variances last year and then look as I stated Planning Commission was much more active in 2025 and I anticipate that we'll continue to track site plans throughout 2026 as we do have some that are currently in the queue right now Yeah, and if you could thank her for the work she did on this, she did a compliment. Really, she did a great job. I appreciate that. She really does spend a lot of time, as you can imagine. So please spend some time, read through the report, see all the hard work and all the items that go before our Zoning Board and Planning Commission, and I appreciate that.

  125. that every second meeting in February that the Planning Division provides you with a annual report highlighting the various decisions that were made by the bodies throughout the years and we also provide a historical record so you can see the trajectory of the progress that we've been making so with that I can I would ask that the township consider making a motion to accept the town the Planning staff report or the annual report I just want to note that Kelly Jacobson and our department works very hard to tally and put together this report and does a beautiful job every year and so I would ask for you to take a look and see that the Planning Commission saw 99 not a hundred ninety-nine variances last year and then look as I stated Planning Commission was much more active in 2025 and I anticipate that we'll continue to track site plans throughout 2026 as we do have some that are currently in the queue right now Yeah, and if you could thank her for the work she did on this, she did a compliment. Really, she did a great job. I appreciate that. She really does spend a lot of time, as you can imagine. So please spend some time, read through the report, see all the hard work and all the items that go before our Zoning Board and Planning Commission, and I appreciate that. And I will share that with her. I just have a quick question. Did the amendments to the ordinance help reduce the number of ZBA cases? Remember you had a... Yes, that is our goal. So we are actually, I'm actually considering some new amendments. I'm not really necessarily prepared to address what those are, but we are under that umbrella of looking at what currently goes to the ZBA frequently, what frequently gets approved. I would say that there is an opportunity that I would like to look at in 2026. I would agree. Is there any, please share if there's anything in particular. I will. Please do. Please do. Because we also want to look for guidance from our board as well. I think it's great that the work that you did and the adjustments to the text helped reduce the load on the ZBA for things that just keep getting approved over and over again. Thank you for that. And we will continue to monitor that and be aware of that, because it doesn't make sense to continue to bring back things that are going to be continually approved or have less impact on neighbors. So with that, we would need a motion to accept the annual report. So moved. Second. Second.

  126. So please spend some time, read through the report, see all the hard work and all the items that go before our Zoning Board and Planning Commission, and I appreciate that. And I will share that with her. I just have a quick question. Did the amendments to the ordinance help reduce the number of ZBA cases? Remember you had a... Yes, that is our goal. So we are actually, I'm actually considering some new amendments. I'm not really necessarily prepared to address what those are, but we are under that umbrella of looking at what currently goes to the ZBA frequently, what frequently gets approved. I would say that there is an opportunity that I would like to look at in 2026. I would agree. Is there any, please share if there's anything in particular. I will. Please do. Please do. Because we also want to look for guidance from our board as well. I think it's great that the work that you did and the adjustments to the text helped reduce the load on the ZBA for things that just keep getting approved over and over again. Thank you for that. And we will continue to monitor that and be aware of that, because it doesn't make sense to continue to bring back things that are going to be continually approved or have less impact on neighbors. So with that, we would need a motion to accept the annual report. So moved. Second. Second. second it all is in favor all right okay I just want one thing I want to say ask you I'm happy that the Board of Trustees put a moratorium on sports courts yes and I'm hoping that will be we'll have an opportunity to put input into the language of the whatever word is however it's changed that it'll that this is going to come absolutely I have very specific things I'd like to put in and I hopefully we get a chance oh absolutely I would imagine there'd be a study session involved we definitely need and want input so we will be reaching out to the public to get input related to that and absolutely we want to hear from you because that's really the task at hand is developing an ordinance that would help alleviate some of the concerns that have been presented to date yeah I want to add I'd like to add to that is that impervious services looking at how we calculate it over the whole property that's another subject okay and I just want to make sure we get a chance and it was brought up at the board meeting as you recall I think I recall that yes I know but were you listening did you listen to us okay anything else then we need a motion to adjourn so adjourned thank you thank you very much Jeff thanks

  127. second it all is in favor all right okay I just want one thing I want to say ask you I'm happy that the Board of Trustees put a moratorium on sports courts yes and I'm hoping that will be we'll have an opportunity to put input into the language of the whatever word is however it's changed that it'll that this is going to come absolutely I have very specific things I'd like to put in and I hopefully we get a chance oh absolutely I would imagine there'd be a study session involved we definitely need and want input so we will be reaching out to the public to get input related to that and absolutely we want to hear from you because that's really the task at hand is developing an ordinance that would help alleviate some of the concerns that have been presented to date yeah I want to add I'd like to add to that is that impervious services looking at how we calculate it over the whole property that's another subject okay and I just want to make sure we get a chance and it was brought up at the board meeting as you recall I think I recall that yes I know but were you listening did you listen to us okay anything else then we need a motion to adjourn so adjourned thank you thank you very much Jeff thanks