the-compact
Design Review Board Wednesday, August 5, 2026 · 59 min

Bloomfield Township Design Review Board Meeting on August 5, 2026

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. Welcome to the Bloomfield Township Design Review Board for August 5th, 2026. It's 2 o'clock, so I'm calling this meeting to order. Chairperson is absent today, so I'm looking for a motion to appoint a chair for this meeting. So moved. Support. So I'll move it. It's going to be marked as our chair. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? OK, the motion carries 3-0. Can I take a moment to introduce Griffin Grava? He's our intern for the summer. We only have Griffin for another week. He'll be going back to northern Michigan. He's been an exceptional addition to PBO. And so I wanted to give him an opportunity to present today, so he's going to be presenting the items. Well, Griffin helped me with my generator. Yes. It's been great working with you, Griffin. Thanks for being here. Thanks. Appreciate it. So I look forward to the meeting and hearing what you've got to say about our items today. OK. All right. Ready to dig into it? I'm ready when you are. OK. Well, we'll see what public comment has for us, and then we'll get into the items. So the first item on the agenda is public comment. And if you're here for one of the items, you'll have an opportunity to speak for that. But if you're for the public and want to speak about any of the items, you're welcome to do that now. OK. Seeing none, we'll close public comment and move on to approval of the minutes from the July 15, 2026 meeting. So moved. Is there support? Support. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed. Motion carries three to zero. Okay, so we have new items on the agenda. And I guess Griffin will start with the A1, 4114 West Maple Road, the eye doctor. All right, good afternoon board. Before today we have a signed proposal for my eye doctor located off of 4114 West Maple Road in the B2 District, out by Maple and Telegraph, by Bose Grill, the Tell Maple Plaza, that location. They're here today proposing two signs, a wall sign and a ground panel sign, which means they won't have to go before the zoning board because it's just a panel replacement, which I will show here. Just a replacement, so there won't be any ZBA required for that. But going back to the main sign, it clocks in about 28.54 square feet within our ordinance. It's replacing the Birmingham Vision Care sign.

  2. But if you're for the public and want to speak about any of the items, you're welcome to do that now. OK. Seeing none, we'll close public comment and move on to approval of the minutes from the July 15, 2026 meeting. So moved. Is there support? Support. All those in favor? Aye. Opposed. Motion carries three to zero. Okay, so we have new items on the agenda. And I guess Griffin will start with the A1, 4114 West Maple Road, the eye doctor. All right, good afternoon board. Before today we have a signed proposal for my eye doctor located off of 4114 West Maple Road in the B2 District, out by Maple and Telegraph, by Bose Grill, the Tell Maple Plaza, that location. They're here today proposing two signs, a wall sign and a ground panel sign, which means they won't have to go before the zoning board because it's just a panel replacement, which I will show here. Just a replacement, so there won't be any ZBA required for that. But going back to the main sign, it clocks in about 28.54 square feet within our ordinance. It's replacing the Birmingham Vision Care sign. I don't think Birmingham Vision Care is going out of business. I just think my eye doctor is kind of taking over their corporate entity in the township. Sitting on the front facade and complies with all township ordinances and requirements. It sits eight and a half inches off the front facade as well. And here are some site photos. Here's what the former sign looked like. Thank you. Oh, great. Oh, yeah. There we go. is there anybody here with the eye doctor who wants to talk about the item oh hey welcome back hello I'm glad to see I'm on the agenda today me too Griffin did a great job presenting it it's basically removing the existing wall sign and replacing what they knew my eye doctor wall sign less square footage involved in that compared to the existing sign it's pretty cut and dry replacement the monument sign faces tenant panel swap out and that's it great any discussion no I think it looks good make a motion that we approve is presented support all those

  3. It's replacing the Birmingham Vision Care sign. I don't think Birmingham Vision Care is going out of business. I just think my eye doctor is kind of taking over their corporate entity in the township. Sitting on the front facade and complies with all township ordinances and requirements. It sits eight and a half inches off the front facade as well. And here are some site photos. Here's what the former sign looked like. Thank you. Oh, great. Oh, yeah. There we go. is there anybody here with the eye doctor who wants to talk about the item oh hey welcome back hello I'm glad to see I'm on the agenda today me too Griffin did a great job presenting it it's basically removing the existing wall sign and replacing what they knew my eye doctor wall sign less square footage involved in that compared to the existing sign it's pretty cut and dry replacement the monument sign faces tenant panel swap out and that's it great any discussion no I think it looks good make a motion that we approve is presented support all those in favor hi any opposed motion carries thanks have a good day Griffin appreciate it all right our second item I don't let me I guess I'll mention that oh now I can't leave everything for you oh yeah so item number two thirty seven hundred Woodward Avenue Eldor Eldor USA yep you got an Eldor here on thirty seven hundred thousand Woodward located in the oh one district and the Simon building this building has gone before the DRB or another sign the IVF mission Again, a few months ago, that came before the design review board. Other tenants are Eddie Merlot's, and there was a subway here at one point. What brings us here today, 63.84 square feet. You will notice the big kicker here is that it sits on what the planning department considers the rear facade of the building. So with that being said, it's actually the discretion of the board when it comes to our ordinances, because the variance up front is that it's on the rear facade.

  4. discussion no I think it looks good make a motion that we approve is presented support all those in favor hi any opposed motion carries thanks have a good day Griffin appreciate it all right our second item I don't let me I guess I'll mention that oh now I can't leave everything for you oh yeah so item number two thirty seven hundred Woodward Avenue Eldor Eldor USA yep you got an Eldor here on thirty seven hundred thousand Woodward located in the oh one district and the Simon building this building has gone before the DRB or another sign the IVF mission Again, a few months ago, that came before the design review board. Other tenants are Eddie Merlot's, and there was a subway here at one point. What brings us here today, 63.84 square feet. You will notice the big kicker here is that it sits on what the planning department considers the rear facade of the building. So with that being said, it's actually the discretion of the board when it comes to our ordinances, because the variance up front is that it's on the rear facade. But that being said, it does comply with all of the townships' ordinances, considering sign and projection. This would be forwarded to the ZBA due to the fact that it's not located on a front facade. Here are some existing photos. This is the facade that is going on. That's on Big Beaver Road, but we consider it a rear facade, even though it is technically on a road. Okay. Is there anybody here representing this item? Are you expecting someone? The township reached out to them yesterday. We didn't get a response, so we assumed it was pretty cut and dry to go forward to the ZBA, and we'll let them know that their proposal has been approved to be forwarded to the ZBA. Okay. So I do have a question. I think what I heard you say is the ZBA approval is only... because it's on the side not because of any dimensional issues yep it's just the face that it sits on when we have things like fences in the township where they sit in the front yard immediately anything with height and from setbacks actually is not disregarded but

  5. because the variance up front is that it's on the rear facade. But that being said, it does comply with all of the townships' ordinances, considering sign and projection. This would be forwarded to the ZBA due to the fact that it's not located on a front facade. Here are some existing photos. This is the facade that is going on. That's on Big Beaver Road, but we consider it a rear facade, even though it is technically on a road. Okay. Is there anybody here representing this item? Are you expecting someone? The township reached out to them yesterday. We didn't get a response, so we assumed it was pretty cut and dry to go forward to the ZBA, and we'll let them know that their proposal has been approved to be forwarded to the ZBA. Okay. So I do have a question. I think what I heard you say is the ZBA approval is only... because it's on the side not because of any dimensional issues yep it's just the face that it sits on when we have things like fences in the township where they sit in the front yard immediately anything with height and from setbacks actually is not disregarded but the motion will always be about the first item which is that it's not in the correct area so if this sign was too big the variance would still be that it was on the incorrect facade for considering our ordinances okay thank you isn't it this so this is on a corner i can picture that and um but on a corner it's like a secondary front yard sometimes isn't i mean that's like my house i'm on a corner and so i have my front and then i have a secondary front and there's different rules than if i had a neighbor there so um it's not okay that it's on the secondary front so for signs in the um the 01 district in any commercial district all signs have to be on the front facade they can't be on a secondary front engine when we consider signage um not residential things it sits on we we then consider it the rear front you don't have a secondary frontage rule for signs just because it's so uncommon and we usually most business this is a unique property most businesses want to put their signs out front so everyone can see them but there is a frontage here we just call it the rear because there really hasn't been a situation and honestly i think till now where

  6. immediately anything with height and from setbacks actually is not disregarded but the motion will always be about the first item which is that it's not in the correct area so if this sign was too big the variance would still be that it was on the incorrect facade for considering our ordinances okay thank you isn't it this so this is on a corner i can picture that and um but on a corner it's like a secondary front yard sometimes isn't i mean that's like my house i'm on a corner and so i have my front and then i have a secondary front and there's different rules than if i had a neighbor there so um it's not okay that it's on the secondary front so for signs in the um the 01 district in any commercial district all signs have to be on the front facade they can't be on a secondary front engine when we consider signage um not residential things it sits on we we then consider it the rear front you don't have a secondary frontage rule for signs just because it's so uncommon and we usually most business this is a unique property most businesses want to put their signs out front so everyone can see them but there is a frontage here we just call it the rear because there really hasn't been a situation and honestly i think till now where the sign is on a secondary frontage, we still just call it the rear. That would be a good thing to look into in the future. Okay, thank you. Any other questions? No, Griffin, nice explanation of everything. And certainly because it's on the side, I understand the need to go to the ZBA, but that side has quite a presence on Big Beaver Road. So with that said, I'd make a motion that we approve subject to the ZBA. We'll accept it and forward it to the ZBA? Yeah. Any support? Support. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. So wherever you are, way to go. And we'll move on to item number three under signs, 2481 South Telegraph Road, Jimmy John's. All right, our final sign proposal today is for the Jimmy John's located at 2481 South Telegraph Road. Located in the B3 District, near the corner of Square Lake Road and Telegraph, near the Galling Chrysler and the Target. This is a unique little piece of property. New. Jimmy John's has been the only tenant here before the building was demolished.

  7. the sign is on a secondary frontage, we still just call it the rear. That would be a good thing to look into in the future. Okay, thank you. Any other questions? No, Griffin, nice explanation of everything. And certainly because it's on the side, I understand the need to go to the ZBA, but that side has quite a presence on Big Beaver Road. So with that said, I'd make a motion that we approve subject to the ZBA. We'll accept it and forward it to the ZBA? Yeah. Any support? Support. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. So wherever you are, way to go. And we'll move on to item number three under signs, 2481 South Telegraph Road, Jimmy John's. All right, our final sign proposal today is for the Jimmy John's located at 2481 South Telegraph Road. Located in the B3 District, near the corner of Square Lake Road and Telegraph, near the Galling Chrysler and the Target. This is a unique little piece of property. New. Jimmy John's has been the only tenant here before the building was demolished. I think back in 2008 there was a building standing here. They demolished it and then put this one here. And Jimmy John's has been the tenant ever since. In terms of, there is a ground sign. And of course there is a building. Thank you. Thank you. Um... the sign itself the wall sign is 29 and a half square feet which is in compliance the sign is located on the front facade and the projection as we saw it now we're willing the applicant is here be some clarification for a few things we saw it as seven but now I see right here it's eight inches off the wall so that is within compliance for the ground sign again similar to my eye doctor just a panel replace the entire sign is staying just the panel is coming off the one issue that our department noticed is the logo size in the B3 district the logo can only be 5% of the sign this one measures at 8.26 square feet which is 28% of the sign we understand we were a little late to the applicant on informing him of this so we are very much open to discussion and open to any discretion considering the two letters as a logo it was within the

  8. Jimmy John's has been the only tenant here before the building was demolished. I think back in 2008 there was a building standing here. They demolished it and then put this one here. And Jimmy John's has been the tenant ever since. In terms of, there is a ground sign. And of course there is a building. Thank you. Thank you. Um... the sign itself the wall sign is 29 and a half square feet which is in compliance the sign is located on the front facade and the projection as we saw it now we're willing the applicant is here be some clarification for a few things we saw it as seven but now I see right here it's eight inches off the wall so that is within compliance for the ground sign again similar to my eye doctor just a panel replace the entire sign is staying just the panel is coming off the one issue that our department noticed is the logo size in the B3 district the logo can only be 5% of the sign this one measures at 8.26 square feet which is 28% of the sign we understand we were a little late to the applicant on informing him of this so we are very much open to discussion and open to any discretion considering the two letters as a logo it was within the department's opinion that since the logo if you did not have it you would still be able to identify the business that we consider it a logo I mean if you look at McDonald's down the street if you removed the golden arches and the stuff on there I would still say McDonald's you'd still be able to identify the business while the 7-eleven who did a rebrand recently where the 7 is now colored in in part of the logo if you remove the seven the business would just be called 11 that wouldn't be you wouldn't be able to identify it but we understand that um we were a little late in correspondence and we are willing to listen to the applicant and his opinion and also the board's opinion on what would constitute as a logo so i do invite the applicant up if he has anything to share and um we'll go from there jj and jimmy johns can you yeah come on the microphone so we can make sure that it's recorded and broadcast the jj and jimmy johns is part of their signage i don't consider it a logo it's part of their signage and it complies with the distance and the height

  9. open to any discretion considering the two letters as a logo it was within the department's opinion that since the logo if you did not have it you would still be able to identify the business that we consider it a logo I mean if you look at McDonald's down the street if you removed the golden arches and the stuff on there I would still say McDonald's you'd still be able to identify the business while the 7-eleven who did a rebrand recently where the 7 is now colored in in part of the logo if you remove the seven the business would just be called 11 that wouldn't be you wouldn't be able to identify it but we understand that um we were a little late in correspondence and we are willing to listen to the applicant and his opinion and also the board's opinion on what would constitute as a logo so i do invite the applicant up if he has anything to share and um we'll go from there jj and jimmy johns can you yeah come on the microphone so we can make sure that it's recorded and broadcast the jj and jimmy johns is part of their signage i don't consider it a logo it's part of their signage and it complies with the distance and the height and it's a compilation of the letters that indicates it as the jimmy johns griffin in your research did you determine that the other logo that currently is on the building went to the design that to the zba yes the previous logo did go before the zoning board of appeals so but i also understand that there's a lot more to this logo we the design review board before has taken circles you know a simple black circle we've seen it before actually with pure hockey we took a logo as simple as a circle as something that needed to be shrank or changed or taken to the zba so there's definitely a difference in style between the logos for sure, minimalist, I would call it, for this second one. Any questions, sir? I would just comment that taking the JJ to the Zoning Board of Appeals would be consistent, traditionally, with everything that we've done. As a matter of fact, the logo went for Jimmy John's when it was at the corner of Square Lake and Woodward. They also had a variance for their logo size. So, in our interpretation, our department, this is considered a logo.

  10. it a logo it's part of their signage and it complies with the distance and the height and it's a compilation of the letters that indicates it as the jimmy johns griffin in your research did you determine that the other logo that currently is on the building went to the design that to the zba yes the previous logo did go before the zoning board of appeals so but i also understand that there's a lot more to this logo we the design review board before has taken circles you know a simple black circle we've seen it before actually with pure hockey we took a logo as simple as a circle as something that needed to be shrank or changed or taken to the zba so there's definitely a difference in style between the logos for sure, minimalist, I would call it, for this second one. Any questions, sir? I would just comment that taking the JJ to the Zoning Board of Appeals would be consistent, traditionally, with everything that we've done. As a matter of fact, the logo went for Jimmy John's when it was at the corner of Square Lake and Woodward. They also had a variance for their logo size. So, in our interpretation, our department, this is considered a logo. Understanding that the applicant is concerned about the timeframe of going to the Zoning Board, you know, luckily they still have a sign there. People are still aware of their business, so I don't feel that there's any undue, you know what I'm trying to say, any of that. Yeah, I mean, it's been there a few years now. It's just a refresh of the signage? Nine years. Yeah. So, yeah, it's not like we're leaving them without a sign. What about the sign at Square Lake and Woodward? Does it have the old logo or the new, which I think is a logo. This is actually a really good question. I wouldn't be surprised if maybe we get this coming our way shortly for that location, because I think they still have the original, the crest, and it sounds like they're doing a rebranding. So all the more reason why I think we need to be consistent. Yeah. Well, honestly, it looks like a logo to me, which you guys agree? Yeah, it's sort of big and bold. I kind of like the old logo better. That's all. Thank you. but, you know, that's not for me to say. Consider it logo, and we have precedent, and the previous sign did have to go to the ZBA, which I do think we need to be consistent with that. So I'll entertain a motion.

  11. Understanding that the applicant is concerned about the timeframe of going to the Zoning Board, you know, luckily they still have a sign there. People are still aware of their business, so I don't feel that there's any undue, you know what I'm trying to say, any of that. Yeah, I mean, it's been there a few years now. It's just a refresh of the signage? Nine years. Yeah. So, yeah, it's not like we're leaving them without a sign. What about the sign at Square Lake and Woodward? Does it have the old logo or the new, which I think is a logo. This is actually a really good question. I wouldn't be surprised if maybe we get this coming our way shortly for that location, because I think they still have the original, the crest, and it sounds like they're doing a rebranding. So all the more reason why I think we need to be consistent. Yeah. Well, honestly, it looks like a logo to me, which you guys agree? Yeah, it's sort of big and bold. I kind of like the old logo better. That's all. Thank you. but, you know, that's not for me to say. Consider it logo, and we have precedent, and the previous sign did have to go to the ZBA, which I do think we need to be consistent with that. So I'll entertain a motion. Make a motion that we approve subject to this going to the ZBA for approval. Support. Accept it. And all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, motion carries. So we'll see you at the ZBA, I guess, when that comes up next. We'll talk a lot more. Right. We'll meet downstairs. Yeah, we'll meet downstairs. Good. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Okay, so now we're moving on to site improvements, and the first one on the agenda is 4099 Telegraph Road, Kroger. Kroger, I'm there often. I'm there often. All right. Kroger comes before us today in the B2 district, right across the building here. Probably, if you could probably see it from the other side of the building. They're coming before us today with a site improvement for eight new light poles, which I will get on here shortly. To the left here is kind of what the head of the light pole will look like that shines down in the parking lot. The pole itself, I don't believe. The pole itself, I don't believe. The pole itself, I don't believe.

  12. Make a motion that we approve subject to this going to the ZBA for approval. Support. Accept it. And all those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, motion carries. So we'll see you at the ZBA, I guess, when that comes up next. We'll talk a lot more. Right. We'll meet downstairs. Yeah, we'll meet downstairs. Good. Thanks a lot. Thank you. Okay, so now we're moving on to site improvements, and the first one on the agenda is 4099 Telegraph Road, Kroger. Kroger, I'm there often. I'm there often. All right. Kroger comes before us today in the B2 district, right across the building here. Probably, if you could probably see it from the other side of the building. They're coming before us today with a site improvement for eight new light poles, which I will get on here shortly. To the left here is kind of what the head of the light pole will look like that shines down in the parking lot. The pole itself, I don't believe. The pole itself, I don't believe. The pole itself, I don't believe. is changing I think they're getting new ones but I don't think the design of the pole itself is changing but we do have the applicant here to confirm and I'll kind of zoom out here phonometric studies if we zoom in here though we have the lighting zones on here a little hard to see I'll try to zoom in each number represents a pole and where it'll be sitting within the parking lot those poles are 20 feet in height as well we also have a night view a night rendering which we at the planning department do enjoy a bit more top-down view you can see the foot candles and where the light kind of runs off out to the edge here yep we did have a discussion with the applicant today actually and that I think that email just came in today about reducing the foot candles for I believe it was parking zone number two because of the fact that the light would bleed into a residential property but the applicant has sent some updated information and I'm sure she'd be more than happy to share great come on up introduce yourself and let's talk about the proposal yeah so Kroger Maria Sinishtai I'm happy to be here offer clarification we're hoping to reduce the wattage on pole six and eight so

  13. is changing I think they're getting new ones but I don't think the design of the pole itself is changing but we do have the applicant here to confirm and I'll kind of zoom out here phonometric studies if we zoom in here though we have the lighting zones on here a little hard to see I'll try to zoom in each number represents a pole and where it'll be sitting within the parking lot those poles are 20 feet in height as well we also have a night view a night rendering which we at the planning department do enjoy a bit more top-down view you can see the foot candles and where the light kind of runs off out to the edge here yep we did have a discussion with the applicant today actually and that I think that email just came in today about reducing the foot candles for I believe it was parking zone number two because of the fact that the light would bleed into a residential property but the applicant has sent some updated information and I'm sure she'd be more than happy to share great come on up introduce yourself and let's talk about the proposal yeah so Kroger Maria Sinishtai I'm happy to be here offer clarification we're hoping to reduce the wattage on pole six and eight so hopefully with reducing the wattage that won't be an impact to the adjacent housing trying to get the night view backups yeah I'll zoom in It's somewhat encroaching, so I think there's an opportunity to be able to reduce the wattage. Do you have an idea or another visual of what it would look like with reduced wattage? I do. I just sent it to you. It was just sent to us, I think, probably like 30 minutes ago. Have you had a chance to look at it yourself, Griffin? I have not. Like I said, I think this is very, very fresh resubmittal of those materials. Do you have a physical copy? I do. We could pass out a physical copy to the guys up there. Oh, it's on your phone. Okay. You can show it on the overhead. Yeah, let's do the overhead projector. Let's see. We're challenging Griffin with everything. The overhead, okay. Okay. Can you see the back picture? Yeah. No, that's not really different. Oh, that was it. It's coming out to dry, Andrew.

  14. offer clarification we're hoping to reduce the wattage on pole six and eight so hopefully with reducing the wattage that won't be an impact to the adjacent housing trying to get the night view backups yeah I'll zoom in It's somewhat encroaching, so I think there's an opportunity to be able to reduce the wattage. Do you have an idea or another visual of what it would look like with reduced wattage? I do. I just sent it to you. It was just sent to us, I think, probably like 30 minutes ago. Have you had a chance to look at it yourself, Griffin? I have not. Like I said, I think this is very, very fresh resubmittal of those materials. Do you have a physical copy? I do. We could pass out a physical copy to the guys up there. Oh, it's on your phone. Okay. You can show it on the overhead. Yeah, let's do the overhead projector. Let's see. We're challenging Griffin with everything. The overhead, okay. Okay. Can you see the back picture? Yeah. No, that's not really different. Oh, that was it. It's coming out to dry, Andrew. Let's see. Yeah, how do I include this? How do I include this? We just have to lay it down on the cut. It's just slated. Oh, interesting. It's like the old-fashioned projector. Oh, my goodness. This is so neat. So neat. Okay. Here we go. There you go. You can zoom in, too. I think the night view would really emphasize the change. Yep. Okay, here we go. This would be the light. Do you have the overhead night view, possibly? I think it's... Okay, that's... Okay. Here, I'll try to even get it in a little closer. You just sent it. Oh, here we go. Let's see. Ah. Darker over there. So, there... Oh, I think that phone turned off. That's perfect. So, in the original proposal, you can kind of see... I mean, we're asking to go off memory here. You kind of see those faint little cubes on the side there.

  15. Let's see. Yeah, how do I include this? How do I include this? We just have to lay it down on the cut. It's just slated. Oh, interesting. It's like the old-fashioned projector. Oh, my goodness. This is so neat. So neat. Okay. Here we go. There you go. You can zoom in, too. I think the night view would really emphasize the change. Yep. Okay, here we go. This would be the light. Do you have the overhead night view, possibly? I think it's... Okay, that's... Okay. Here, I'll try to even get it in a little closer. You just sent it. Oh, here we go. Let's see. Ah. Darker over there. So, there... Oh, I think that phone turned off. That's perfect. So, in the original proposal, you can kind of see... I mean, we're asking to go off memory here. You kind of see those faint little cubes on the side there. Those are residential buildings. And in the previous one, they're illuminated. And this one, they aren't. So, that's kind of the... I think the difference here is that that building that was shown in the rendering had light on it prior to the updated rendering. I did just confirm that the foot candles, which is the measurement of light, has decreased. They had it at 1.7. It's now down to 0.7. Oh. So, that falls within the range. So, I've noticed on the... I just confirmed it on the recently submitted. And we'll make sure, obviously, that that's the plan that would be forwarded on as part of the permanent. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that's quite a reduction. That's great. Yeah. I think it's just a little variedarted. Thank you. oh okay you want us to hit get the microphone there Maria so we can make sure yeah I'll turn us back on now what words that the lights will be on we do have a setback usually it's dusted on so I don't have the exact like timing but I can get that I can provide that information good

  16. You kind of see those faint little cubes on the side there. Those are residential buildings. And in the previous one, they're illuminated. And this one, they aren't. So, that's kind of the... I think the difference here is that that building that was shown in the rendering had light on it prior to the updated rendering. I did just confirm that the foot candles, which is the measurement of light, has decreased. They had it at 1.7. It's now down to 0.7. Oh. So, that falls within the range. So, I've noticed on the... I just confirmed it on the recently submitted. And we'll make sure, obviously, that that's the plan that would be forwarded on as part of the permanent. Okay. Thank you. Yeah, that's quite a reduction. That's great. Yeah. I think it's just a little variedarted. Thank you. oh okay you want us to hit get the microphone there Maria so we can make sure yeah I'll turn us back on now what words that the lights will be on we do have a setback usually it's dusted on so I don't have the exact like timing but I can get that I can provide that information good question the store isn't open all night long that's correct so it's typically usually for safety purposes in terms of our customers and our associates we do have people kind of pulling in carts so I try to I try to approach it where it could be like 8 p.m. and it could be up until 8 a.m. um just because I want to be able to make sure I'm accommodating safety concerns so give or take 12 hours just so I'm clear it's the turns on are for the 8 p.m. and stays on till yes through the night mm-hmm yes so it's yep it probably varies with sunrise and sunset I would imagine if there's us to dawn correct usually it's we we basically will fall back with the daylight savings and we'll spring forward if need be just to be able to save and conserve energy how's this compared to the lights that are there now it's got a really great look i think if you kind of see the way the pole looks well i guess i'm more concerned about the impact on the neighbors i think it's going to look exactly like lifetime fitness i do have a specification

  17. dusted on so I don't have the exact like timing but I can get that I can provide that information good question the store isn't open all night long that's correct so it's typically usually for safety purposes in terms of our customers and our associates we do have people kind of pulling in carts so I try to I try to approach it where it could be like 8 p.m. and it could be up until 8 a.m. um just because I want to be able to make sure I'm accommodating safety concerns so give or take 12 hours just so I'm clear it's the turns on are for the 8 p.m. and stays on till yes through the night mm-hmm yes so it's yep it probably varies with sunrise and sunset I would imagine if there's us to dawn correct usually it's we we basically will fall back with the daylight savings and we'll spring forward if need be just to be able to save and conserve energy how's this compared to the lights that are there now it's got a really great look i think if you kind of see the way the pole looks well i guess i'm more concerned about the impact on the neighbors i think it's going to look exactly like lifetime fitness i do have a specification on the pole i can share it with everybody but it's on my phone well we judge the impact also based on the foot candle measurement so that's really the measurement from lighting that we determine whether or not it's going to be impacted for the neighbors is this more foot candles than the lights presently have or i i wouldn't have a photometric from today but i can tell you that between a one foot candle down to zero is usually our acceptable range right at a lot line so it's consistent with what's been permitted previously okay good to know and obviously if there's any complaints yeah obviously from residents or neighbors we certainly would have a conversation absolutely yeah we would fix it quickly okay good well that's good to hear that makes me happy so if you are hearing some issues you'll dialogue with our staff here and absolutely resolve it okay thank you thanks you're welcome make a motion that we approve the plan with the amended uh submission of the foot candles uh near the uh near the residence which are with poll number what six and i think it's 1.7 down to point seven no yeah right i just want the polls themselves oh the specific ones that are affected six and eight with poll six and eight six and eight with polly thank you support action so you

  18. the neighbors i think it's going to look exactly like lifetime fitness i do have a specification on the pole i can share it with everybody but it's on my phone well we judge the impact also based on the foot candle measurement so that's really the measurement from lighting that we determine whether or not it's going to be impacted for the neighbors is this more foot candles than the lights presently have or i i wouldn't have a photometric from today but i can tell you that between a one foot candle down to zero is usually our acceptable range right at a lot line so it's consistent with what's been permitted previously okay good to know and obviously if there's any complaints yeah obviously from residents or neighbors we certainly would have a conversation absolutely yeah we would fix it quickly okay good well that's good to hear that makes me happy so if you are hearing some issues you'll dialogue with our staff here and absolutely resolve it okay thank you thanks you're welcome make a motion that we approve the plan with the amended uh submission of the foot candles uh near the uh near the residence which are with poll number what six and i think it's 1.7 down to point seven no yeah right i just want the polls themselves oh the specific ones that are affected six and eight with poll six and eight six and eight with polly thank you support action so you All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you both. Yeah, of course. Okay. Ready, Griffin, for the next one? Oh yeah, we're ready. Okay, good. You look ready. 1415 South Telegraph Road, BP Gas Station. Another site improvement. All right. Second site improvement of the day here. Folks at BP Gas Station are proposing a site improvement in the B3 District near the Oakland Vet, near Old Telegraph, kind of above the border of Pontiac. They are proposing EV chargers, two new EV chargers at the gas station. We've got a lot of plans here. But basically, they'll be located on the frontage where parking spots exist now. You can actually see in one of the site proposals there were yellow parking space, line parking spaces there. Those would be taken up by the chargers. There'll be two chargers in four spaces. So a car would fit here and here and be charged at once. And same with that one. So two chargers for a total of four cars at once. We also do have a rendering of the chargers. They're going to look almost something like this. It's kind of like a gas pump, but it's a charger, which is a lot different actually from the existing chargers in the township.

  19. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Motion carries. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Thank you both. Yeah, of course. Okay. Ready, Griffin, for the next one? Oh yeah, we're ready. Okay, good. You look ready. 1415 South Telegraph Road, BP Gas Station. Another site improvement. All right. Second site improvement of the day here. Folks at BP Gas Station are proposing a site improvement in the B3 District near the Oakland Vet, near Old Telegraph, kind of above the border of Pontiac. They are proposing EV chargers, two new EV chargers at the gas station. We've got a lot of plans here. But basically, they'll be located on the frontage where parking spots exist now. You can actually see in one of the site proposals there were yellow parking space, line parking spaces there. Those would be taken up by the chargers. There'll be two chargers in four spaces. So a car would fit here and here and be charged at once. And same with that one. So two chargers for a total of four cars at once. We also do have a rendering of the chargers. They're going to look almost something like this. It's kind of like a gas pump, but it's a charger, which is a lot different actually from the existing chargers in the township. Is the applicant here? The applicant is here and he's able to answer any questions. Also a good site photo from where you're sitting at the gas station. They would basically go along this lawn right here. We have also, we are just going to forward this applicant to the zoning board if approved, based on the fact that we are considering EV chargers accessory structures. And actually there's been a department initiative to start keeping track of unpermitted and on chargers that haven't gone through the proper channels. There are, think about two plus chargers in the township that are on commercial property that haven't gone through any boards or any permit processes. So we're hoping to start keeping everyone up to check and we would be starting here with this applicant who's been very patient with us. Great, thanks, welcome. Can you introduce yourself? Yes, my name is Hedy Boosie, yep.

  20. Those would be taken up by the chargers. There'll be two chargers in four spaces. So a car would fit here and here and be charged at once. And same with that one. So two chargers for a total of four cars at once. We also do have a rendering of the chargers. They're going to look almost something like this. It's kind of like a gas pump, but it's a charger, which is a lot different actually from the existing chargers in the township. Is the applicant here? The applicant is here and he's able to answer any questions. Also a good site photo from where you're sitting at the gas station. They would basically go along this lawn right here. We have also, we are just going to forward this applicant to the zoning board if approved, based on the fact that we are considering EV chargers accessory structures. And actually there's been a department initiative to start keeping track of unpermitted and on chargers that haven't gone through the proper channels. There are, think about two plus chargers in the township that are on commercial property that haven't gone through any boards or any permit processes. So we're hoping to start keeping everyone up to check and we would be starting here with this applicant who's been very patient with us. Great, thanks, welcome. Can you introduce yourself? Yes, my name is Hedy Boosie, yep. We're just trying to install these chargers. We have some on Telegraph already, not in Bloomfield Township. You know, just brings more business to the station for our client. You know, those screens, really nice accommodation in terms of the look that it puts together. High quality units and we're looking forward to hopefully having the opportunity to get them in. So what level chargers are these, so these would be on level two? So these are level three fast chargers. So the average charging duration is about 17 minutes. give or take obviously varies on the vehicle great any other questions welcome pledge making an installation up there and I'm sure people will be using it very much yep make a motion that we approve the EV chargers and then subject to get to ZBA approval any support so moved all those in favor aye aye any opposed motion carries 3-0 and will they be installed after ZBA soon as they're approved so how long does it take a day about two three weeks the problem is for these chargers we have DT energy kind of involved they

  21. Yes, my name is Hedy Boosie, yep. We're just trying to install these chargers. We have some on Telegraph already, not in Bloomfield Township. You know, just brings more business to the station for our client. You know, those screens, really nice accommodation in terms of the look that it puts together. High quality units and we're looking forward to hopefully having the opportunity to get them in. So what level chargers are these, so these would be on level two? So these are level three fast chargers. So the average charging duration is about 17 minutes. give or take obviously varies on the vehicle great any other questions welcome pledge making an installation up there and I'm sure people will be using it very much yep make a motion that we approve the EV chargers and then subject to get to ZBA approval any support so moved all those in favor aye aye any opposed motion carries 3-0 and will they be installed after ZBA soon as they're approved so how long does it take a day about two three weeks the problem is for these chargers we have DT energy kind of involved they take forever they were to six weeks so yeah okay thank you thank you mm-hmm okay that that takes care of site improvements I think right yeah okay awesome let's let's move on to our special event of items first one is 434 94 Woodward Avenue Donner PC the Woodward Dream Cruise all right the folks at Donner PC submitted the DRB application to host a special event for the Woodward Dream Cruise there'll be food trucks located in the parking lot they're using their front yard that is on the street side obviously to watch the cars go by have some people over they're expecting about 20 to 40 people attending there'll be people there to help with safety and security in the parking lot there'll be someone supervising the parking lot as well there will be food trucks present as I just mentioned and there'll be no grills good food trucks we'll have two fifteen by fifteen tents located in the parking

  22. about two three weeks the problem is for these chargers we have DT energy kind of involved they take forever they were to six weeks so yeah okay thank you thank you mm-hmm okay that that takes care of site improvements I think right yeah okay awesome let's let's move on to our special event of items first one is 434 94 Woodward Avenue Donner PC the Woodward Dream Cruise all right the folks at Donner PC submitted the DRB application to host a special event for the Woodward Dream Cruise there'll be food trucks located in the parking lot they're using their front yard that is on the street side obviously to watch the cars go by have some people over they're expecting about 20 to 40 people attending there'll be people there to help with safety and security in the parking lot there'll be someone supervising the parking lot as well there will be food trucks present as I just mentioned and there'll be no grills good food trucks we'll have two fifteen by fifteen tents located in the parking lot and there was a sub an updated plan submitted a while ago there will also looks like it's a cover tent here there are two tents so one is actually in the parking lot and the other it's a little hard to see it was kind of cut off by the scanner that'll be on the side lot of their property that it's where it will be located it looks a little long but we have confirmed that there will be 15 by 15. I think that's it we do have the applicant here if there are two questions great thanks please come on up and introduce yourself yeah my name is Calvin Kizzy new owner Bloomfield of the PPC building there just got in in June I'm very then welcome with open arms Griffin's been great so yeah just trying to have a little fun out there I got a couple food trucks coming got Kona ice and another outfit out of Detroit coming in to do Thursday Friday and then Saturday is only going to be the regular food shop so Kona Ice had to back up with that other engagement last minute. That item that he was talking about on the side of the building is kind of long. That was I was adding tables and stuff to that so that's what we're extending that to our tenants so we decided at the last minute and

  23. good food trucks we'll have two fifteen by fifteen tents located in the parking lot and there was a sub an updated plan submitted a while ago there will also looks like it's a cover tent here there are two tents so one is actually in the parking lot and the other it's a little hard to see it was kind of cut off by the scanner that'll be on the side lot of their property that it's where it will be located it looks a little long but we have confirmed that there will be 15 by 15. I think that's it we do have the applicant here if there are two questions great thanks please come on up and introduce yourself yeah my name is Calvin Kizzy new owner Bloomfield of the PPC building there just got in in June I'm very then welcome with open arms Griffin's been great so yeah just trying to have a little fun out there I got a couple food trucks coming got Kona ice and another outfit out of Detroit coming in to do Thursday Friday and then Saturday is only going to be the regular food shop so Kona Ice had to back up with that other engagement last minute. That item that he was talking about on the side of the building is kind of long. That was I was adding tables and stuff to that so that's what we're extending that to our tenants so we decided at the last minute and that's only going to be for Saturday by the way it's not going to be there all three days. Saturday we decided to do a little tenant party so to speak so we might have it's hard to say 20 40 maybe I mean if you depends on if the tenants are going to show sometimes they will sometimes they don't so there's 14 units at the building 12 which is our rented out or leased out rather so again expecting hopefully a good turnout but we never know what we're gonna get so that's why I put that little extra area there pretty much tables one tent but just tables on the side to do some you know chips and pop and so on and so forth and just have a nice gathering kind of a get to know my tenants and vice versa and just let you know because the tent is over a hundred and twenty square feet you will need to get a permit for the tent. It's a 15 by 15. Oh I thought you said 30 by 30. It's a no no no no no 15 by 15. It's a regular home it's like a tailgate that's how you know that's that's how I'm considering it and I didn't write that on there but it's gonna be a little tailgate party pretty much just to get to know the neighborhood get to know people get to know my tenants and then to know me and so on. Is that something you're gonna have open to the public? Oh on Thursday

  24. what we're extending that to our tenants so we decided at the last minute and that's only going to be for Saturday by the way it's not going to be there all three days. Saturday we decided to do a little tenant party so to speak so we might have it's hard to say 20 40 maybe I mean if you depends on if the tenants are going to show sometimes they will sometimes they don't so there's 14 units at the building 12 which is our rented out or leased out rather so again expecting hopefully a good turnout but we never know what we're gonna get so that's why I put that little extra area there pretty much tables one tent but just tables on the side to do some you know chips and pop and so on and so forth and just have a nice gathering kind of a get to know my tenants and vice versa and just let you know because the tent is over a hundred and twenty square feet you will need to get a permit for the tent. It's a 15 by 15. Oh I thought you said 30 by 30. It's a no no no no no 15 by 15. It's a regular home it's like a tailgate that's how you know that's that's how I'm considering it and I didn't write that on there but it's gonna be a little tailgate party pretty much just to get to know the neighborhood get to know people get to know my tenants and then to know me and so on. Is that something you're gonna have open to the public? Oh on Thursday Friday said that's what the food trucks are for. Yep. Any other questions? I just wanted to add I kind of steamrolled over this one PD and fire have no notes so no concerns from PD or fire. Great. So I'll entertain a motion. Any other questions? Yeah I would make a motion that we approve the special event at 43 494. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any motion carries? Thank you. I'll see you guys in a couple weeks for my sign. All right. Yeah. Appreciate you guys. Thank you so much. Okay that brings us to our second special event permit. 4000 Clubgate Drive, Wildby Country Club, a night in Monaco and the Children's Foundation of Michigan. All right for our last special event we have Wabi with their night in Monaco special event. This is going to be on August 28th going from 7 p.m. to 11 p.m. It'll be sorry I lost my track there. It has taken place in the township before but we did not have any history of it on the design review board.

  25. Friday said that's what the food trucks are for. Yep. Any other questions? I just wanted to add I kind of steamrolled over this one PD and fire have no notes so no concerns from PD or fire. Great. So I'll entertain a motion. Any other questions? Yeah I would make a motion that we approve the special event at 43 494. All those in favor? Aye. Aye. Any opposed? Any motion carries? Thank you. I'll see you guys in a couple weeks for my sign. All right. Yeah. Appreciate you guys. Thank you so much. Okay that brings us to our second special event permit. 4000 Clubgate Drive, Wildby Country Club, a night in Monaco and the Children's Foundation of Michigan. All right for our last special event we have Wabi with their night in Monaco special event. This is going to be on August 28th going from 7 p.m. to 11 p.m. It'll be sorry I lost my track there. It has taken place in the township before but we did not have any history of it on the design review board. There will be 400 people there. There will be volunteers present. There's a valet parking. There will be someone supervising the parking. There will be no road closures. Food and beverage will be sold. There will be a charcoal grill. food and beverage will be sold. There will be a charcoal grill. Food and beverage will be sold. to provide food for everyone. Alcohol will be served, and there will be portable restrooms as well. There was also a bit of entertainment that will be taken outdoors. There will be a live DJ. So in terms of what's going to be there, there will be two grills, five to six 10x10 canopies, 15 4x4 tables, and six 5x5 booths located on the patio. They did want to, in regards to anything additional, which was, we respectfully request a one-time extension of the city's outdoor noise ordinance to allow our DJ to continue playing music until 10.30 p.m. This extension would apply only to this event and would significantly enhance our fundraising efforts while providing a memorable experience for our guests. And I quote. We do have a site plan that they provided. I've heard there has been a little bit of an update, but this is quite the show here. Yeah, if you'd like, we can turn on the doc cam and... Printed a ton for everyone.

  26. There will be 400 people there. There will be volunteers present. There's a valet parking. There will be someone supervising the parking. There will be no road closures. Food and beverage will be sold. There will be a charcoal grill. food and beverage will be sold. There will be a charcoal grill. Food and beverage will be sold. to provide food for everyone. Alcohol will be served, and there will be portable restrooms as well. There was also a bit of entertainment that will be taken outdoors. There will be a live DJ. So in terms of what's going to be there, there will be two grills, five to six 10x10 canopies, 15 4x4 tables, and six 5x5 booths located on the patio. They did want to, in regards to anything additional, which was, we respectfully request a one-time extension of the city's outdoor noise ordinance to allow our DJ to continue playing music until 10.30 p.m. This extension would apply only to this event and would significantly enhance our fundraising efforts while providing a memorable experience for our guests. And I quote. We do have a site plan that they provided. I've heard there has been a little bit of an update, but this is quite the show here. Yeah, if you'd like, we can turn on the doc cam and... Printed a ton for everyone. So I guess we can play the matchmaking game on there with our physical copies. And we'll, um, we also have the applicant here to, um, explain any other differences, um, PD and fire. and the weather amorn of the run. But you're... So, I want the mat Minor 19-100 is there... no notes for this as well site photos are a little inaccurate but just so these site photos here to just enjoy the beauty of Wahbeek out here because I think I kind of missed with the the driving range was that's all right one quick question for you Griffin yeah we move on you know to the outdoor noise ordinance and the time change 1030 is in the permit application is what's the normal time then yeah generally speaking anything beyond 10 o'clock great so I see the applicants welcome please introduce yourself and I'd love to hear more about the event too so thank you thank you Griffin thank you for having us my name is Avar I'm a representative of prime concepts Detroit which is the hospitality group behind Wahbeek and this is Lee Sharkis great to work with yes

  27. So I guess we can play the matchmaking game on there with our physical copies. And we'll, um, we also have the applicant here to, um, explain any other differences, um, PD and fire. and the weather amorn of the run. But you're... So, I want the mat Minor 19-100 is there... no notes for this as well site photos are a little inaccurate but just so these site photos here to just enjoy the beauty of Wahbeek out here because I think I kind of missed with the the driving range was that's all right one quick question for you Griffin yeah we move on you know to the outdoor noise ordinance and the time change 1030 is in the permit application is what's the normal time then yeah generally speaking anything beyond 10 o'clock great so I see the applicants welcome please introduce yourself and I'd love to hear more about the event too so thank you thank you Griffin thank you for having us my name is Avar I'm a representative of prime concepts Detroit which is the hospitality group behind Wahbeek and this is Lee Sharkis great to work with yes absolutely so yeah we're hosting on August 28th we're hosting a night in Monaco at the Wahbeek Club it's the inaugural year for the Joe and Nora Barbette Family Foundation in partnership with the Children's Foundation of Michigan so the foundation the Joe and Nora Barbette Family Foundation has just started this year and this is the first event we're throwing around it and it's in partnership with the Children's Foundation of Michigan we're hosting at the Wahbeek Club it's members it's a members event and we're extending invitations to non-members and it's per discretion of the membership as well so it's not just for anybody it is an invitation only event but it should want to come you sign sign up on a waitlist registration and we determine how we proceed from there as griffin mentioned the event starts at 6 and we're hoping it'll go till about 10 30. as you can see here we have everything from a car showcase from ferrari to live entertainment from a dj that we're actually flying in from the french riviera for this event to tie in the whole monaco feel we have casino tables to draw that

  28. hospitality group behind Wahbeek and this is Lee Sharkis great to work with yes absolutely so yeah we're hosting on August 28th we're hosting a night in Monaco at the Wahbeek Club it's the inaugural year for the Joe and Nora Barbette Family Foundation in partnership with the Children's Foundation of Michigan so the foundation the Joe and Nora Barbette Family Foundation has just started this year and this is the first event we're throwing around it and it's in partnership with the Children's Foundation of Michigan we're hosting at the Wahbeek Club it's members it's a members event and we're extending invitations to non-members and it's per discretion of the membership as well so it's not just for anybody it is an invitation only event but it should want to come you sign sign up on a waitlist registration and we determine how we proceed from there as griffin mentioned the event starts at 6 and we're hoping it'll go till about 10 30. as you can see here we have everything from a car showcase from ferrari to live entertainment from a dj that we're actually flying in from the french riviera for this event to tie in the whole monaco feel we have casino tables to draw that monto monte carlo monaco effect back in we're featuring um seven food cabanas from the prime concepts prime concepts culinary portfolio as well as the wabic chef's features which is the grill component that we were discussing they're going to be live grilling um on that cabana what else are i missing no uh the pool there's no dance floor oh yes so the change to the floor plan from the screen to the one you have in front of you we are no longer doing the dance floor on the pool um so instead we're doing high top tables and lounge seating around the pool and then as you can see we've also added some palm trees that we are going to transport in and um assign around there that is the pretty much the only difference from the one you're looking at on screen and the one you have in front of you oh and the registration desk is moved to the left of the to the right of the square so gate this is club gate right club gate drive as opposed to the front of the loading dock i just want to note that we don't our time ordinance our noise ordinance is respect is um specific to

  29. for this event to tie in the whole monaco feel we have casino tables to draw that monto monte carlo monaco effect back in we're featuring um seven food cabanas from the prime concepts prime concepts culinary portfolio as well as the wabic chef's features which is the grill component that we were discussing they're going to be live grilling um on that cabana what else are i missing no uh the pool there's no dance floor oh yes so the change to the floor plan from the screen to the one you have in front of you we are no longer doing the dance floor on the pool um so instead we're doing high top tables and lounge seating around the pool and then as you can see we've also added some palm trees that we are going to transport in and um assign around there that is the pretty much the only difference from the one you're looking at on screen and the one you have in front of you oh and the registration desk is moved to the left of the to the right of the square so gate this is club gate right club gate drive as opposed to the front of the loading dock i just want to note that we don't our time ordinance our noise ordinance is respect is um specific to construction from 7 a.m to 6 p.m um i guess my comment would be um we would recommend that you have a conversation with the adjacent homeowner homeowners associations um have a conversation about the time would be my recommendation is that that would be part of the consideration by the board today um but i just wanted to clarify that we don't necessarily have an ordinance as relates to music but for construction but obviously there would have to be you know knowledge by the neighbors as well as if there's any complaints that were that came about so i just wanted to share that with the board as you deliberated thank you thank you any questions um great cause by the way thank you and it sounds like a lot of fun at the same time um make a motion that we approve and uh i do have a couple quick questions oh i'm sorry good okay thank you um where would the dj be set up on this so the as of right now we're still confirming the dj setup but we have it on here on the one that's printed right on the terrace overlooking the pool it's titled my canopy oh yeah okay where's that stage area um it says on the on the one you're looking at

  30. want to note that we don't our time ordinance our noise ordinance is respect is um specific to construction from 7 a.m to 6 p.m um i guess my comment would be um we would recommend that you have a conversation with the adjacent homeowner homeowners associations um have a conversation about the time would be my recommendation is that that would be part of the consideration by the board today um but i just wanted to clarify that we don't necessarily have an ordinance as relates to music but for construction but obviously there would have to be you know knowledge by the neighbors as well as if there's any complaints that were that came about so i just wanted to share that with the board as you deliberated thank you thank you any questions um great cause by the way thank you and it sounds like a lot of fun at the same time um make a motion that we approve and uh i do have a couple quick questions oh i'm sorry good okay thank you um where would the dj be set up on this so the as of right now we're still confirming the dj setup but we have it on here on the one that's printed right on the terrace overlooking the pool it's titled my canopy oh yeah okay where's that stage area um it says on the on the one you're looking at on the printout it says seated dining area and then right in front of it there's that black table sorry it's very blurry it says DJ booth got it okay it's actually a good spot I mean as far as the connection to where the residents are there's nothing very close it's quite a distance quite a distance yes yeah you don't want to have it too loud because you have guests talking and visiting so I can imagine it's gonna be bumping loud music yes absolutely you know right imagine that there's a you want people to communicate and talk while they're there and this DJ is the resident DJ at a very notable club in the French Riviera in San Tropez so he's very familiar with people having dinner while he's performing so he plays like a nice you know mellow sing-along should you dance if should you but also eat and talk and enjoy your evening what day of the week is it it is a Friday Friday night okay I don't have any other questions a motion that we approve this with the condition that homeowners association are

  31. on the printout it says seated dining area and then right in front of it there's that black table sorry it's very blurry it says DJ booth got it okay it's actually a good spot I mean as far as the connection to where the residents are there's nothing very close it's quite a distance quite a distance yes yeah you don't want to have it too loud because you have guests talking and visiting so I can imagine it's gonna be bumping loud music yes absolutely you know right imagine that there's a you want people to communicate and talk while they're there and this DJ is the resident DJ at a very notable club in the French Riviera in San Tropez so he's very familiar with people having dinner while he's performing so he plays like a nice you know mellow sing-along should you dance if should you but also eat and talk and enjoy your evening what day of the week is it it is a Friday Friday night okay I don't have any other questions a motion that we approve this with the condition that homeowners association are notified about the music and and during the event support all those in favor aye any opposed motion carries thank you good luck thank you looks like really well planned out yeah looks like a fun evening I hope the weather cooperates yeah is there a backup for that obviously things change yeah okay that's just so hard when it's I suppose you already have a rain date picked out I guess the board is you have a committee so we're on Labor Day okay so the Friday after Labor Day do we want to make a amended to the motion that should I suppose yeah yeah thank you I guess that a courtesy would be appropriate to do that amend the motion to include the also the tentative follow-up rain date of September 4th if necessary support support and we're sure hoping you don't need it so now I set it

  32. a motion that we approve this with the condition that homeowners association are notified about the music and and during the event support all those in favor aye any opposed motion carries thank you good luck thank you looks like really well planned out yeah looks like a fun evening I hope the weather cooperates yeah is there a backup for that obviously things change yeah okay that's just so hard when it's I suppose you already have a rain date picked out I guess the board is you have a committee so we're on Labor Day okay so the Friday after Labor Day do we want to make a amended to the motion that should I suppose yeah yeah thank you I guess that a courtesy would be appropriate to do that amend the motion to include the also the tentative follow-up rain date of September 4th if necessary support support and we're sure hoping you don't need it so now I set it up probably won't need all those in favor aye opposed great thanks now you're covered okay oh okay now I can't wait yeah this is yeah this is exciting stuff here like Chris Fox general business yeah introduction of the amendments the zoning ordinance another tree preservation our newly appointed deputy director of planning building an ordinance previously in the capacity of our building official he's now getting involved with more planning related items and this is something that Chris and I have worked with Martin and other staff members in our engineering department keep in mind this is a draft ordinance this is the first rollout presentation of the draft that we have and it will be proceeding forward so with that I will let Chris take it from there hi Chris welcome thank you thanks for working so hard on us I know we've been working on this for I don't know a year maybe having a lot of conversations already and meetings you know it's a complicated issue much more to come so I look forward to it okay well good afternoon everyone I'm gonna go over the introduction of the amendments for the zoning zoning ordinance for tree

  33. necessary support support and we're sure hoping you don't need it so now I set it up probably won't need all those in favor aye opposed great thanks now you're covered okay oh okay now I can't wait yeah this is yeah this is exciting stuff here like Chris Fox general business yeah introduction of the amendments the zoning ordinance another tree preservation our newly appointed deputy director of planning building an ordinance previously in the capacity of our building official he's now getting involved with more planning related items and this is something that Chris and I have worked with Martin and other staff members in our engineering department keep in mind this is a draft ordinance this is the first rollout presentation of the draft that we have and it will be proceeding forward so with that I will let Chris take it from there hi Chris welcome thank you thanks for working so hard on us I know we've been working on this for I don't know a year maybe having a lot of conversations already and meetings you know it's a complicated issue much more to come so I look forward to it okay well good afternoon everyone I'm gonna go over the introduction of the amendments for the zoning zoning ordinance for tree preservation I want to start with a little bit of a background we've had a tree preservation ordinance in the township since what 2007 I believe is 2008 somewhere in that time frame over the years we've had a lot of comments and questions and suggestions on how the ordinance can be improved or how it's not adequate or whatever it might be mostly in relation to how we how we deal with trees in relation to residential construction and in commercial construction on the properties similarities you you you you you you you you Presently, our ordinance does not allow for a lot of preservation of landmark trees or woodlands themselves. It doesn't specify anything in that nature. It uses a grading system for tree health, which is very interpretational. The ordinance does have language in it in regards to clear cutting, which we're trying

  34. over the introduction of the amendments for the zoning zoning ordinance for tree preservation I want to start with a little bit of a background we've had a tree preservation ordinance in the township since what 2007 I believe is 2008 somewhere in that time frame over the years we've had a lot of comments and questions and suggestions on how the ordinance can be improved or how it's not adequate or whatever it might be mostly in relation to how we how we deal with trees in relation to residential construction and in commercial construction on the properties similarities you you you you you you you you Presently, our ordinance does not allow for a lot of preservation of landmark trees or woodlands themselves. It doesn't specify anything in that nature. It uses a grading system for tree health, which is very interpretational. The ordinance does have language in it in regards to clear cutting, which we're trying to minimize that type of activity on properties. In review of that ordinance and with all the research we've done, we've used that to draft some amendments that hopefully will help us prevent unreasonable cutting and more preservation of the existing woodlands and landmark trees and better plantings or more high quality trees. So as a brief overview of the changes to the ordinance, the very beginning of the ordinance in the intent section, that's been updated to include more detailed language about protecting the woodlands and the trees and how their importance applies to the township. Again, the clear cutting information has kind of been removed from the tree from the tree. ordinance there's there's nothing in there that specifically says for particular you know in if you're clear cutting you have to do this or anything of that nature those that kind of language was was removed at this time um the sections that are that have to do with grading

  35. The ordinance does have language in it in regards to clear cutting, which we're trying to minimize that type of activity on properties. In review of that ordinance and with all the research we've done, we've used that to draft some amendments that hopefully will help us prevent unreasonable cutting and more preservation of the existing woodlands and landmark trees and better plantings or more high quality trees. So as a brief overview of the changes to the ordinance, the very beginning of the ordinance in the intent section, that's been updated to include more detailed language about protecting the woodlands and the trees and how their importance applies to the township. Again, the clear cutting information has kind of been removed from the tree from the tree. ordinance there's there's nothing in there that specifically says for particular you know in if you're clear cutting you have to do this or anything of that nature those that kind of language was was removed at this time um the sections that are that have to do with grading of trees have been completely removed so that whole section since we're not going to use that method anymore in our in our way of doing things with the trees that has been completely removed we updated the language on tree replacements as far as what the requirements are saying specifically for protected trees landmark trees and we've also started including diseased and dead trees as part of the replacement values so that type of information has been added into the requirements the review standards have been changed to reflect our more stringent rules for the removal and relocation of trees and wooded areas we've had some language modifications in the tree protection procedure section to clean up some of the ordinance language that was in there we had a couple of items that contradicted each other and things of that nature so we've cleaned some of that language up to make it uh more consistent and uh some of the illustrations have been changed to uh again for conflicting information things of that nature um just so that everything everything is all consistent everything is all the way through and we've added a section up

  36. language was was removed at this time um the sections that are that have to do with grading of trees have been completely removed so that whole section since we're not going to use that method anymore in our in our way of doing things with the trees that has been completely removed we updated the language on tree replacements as far as what the requirements are saying specifically for protected trees landmark trees and we've also started including diseased and dead trees as part of the replacement values so that type of information has been added into the requirements the review standards have been changed to reflect our more stringent rules for the removal and relocation of trees and wooded areas we've had some language modifications in the tree protection procedure section to clean up some of the ordinance language that was in there we had a couple of items that contradicted each other and things of that nature so we've cleaned some of that language up to make it uh more consistent and uh some of the illustrations have been changed to uh again for conflicting information things of that nature um just so that everything everything is all consistent everything is all the way through and we've added a section up penalty section for violations which uh we it we had something similar but this one's been rewritten to provide for more stringent penalties on uh on illegal cutting of trees and and woodlands and that nature overall that's a pretty brief representation of what we've done so can i add a little bit to that is um just a little more color to the to the commentary uh you know chris andrea me many others have been in the room um for a while and some of those others are you know the engineering department and the staff there who are tasked in part to address this issue um and have really really engaged with the process and and so much so that you know one of one of the engineering staff has taken his test to become a certified arborist which is an important element in in this process that it isn't just you know when dealing with a resident and talking about trees uh someone will be there with with the credentials that uh uh support his opinions um the uh penalty section um you know it does contain some sort of gradation that um civil infraction at first i believe and then a potentially a misdemeanor infraction uh for

  37. penalty section for violations which uh we it we had something similar but this one's been rewritten to provide for more stringent penalties on uh on illegal cutting of trees and and woodlands and that nature overall that's a pretty brief representation of what we've done so can i add a little bit to that is um just a little more color to the to the commentary uh you know chris andrea me many others have been in the room um for a while and some of those others are you know the engineering department and the staff there who are tasked in part to address this issue um and have really really engaged with the process and and so much so that you know one of one of the engineering staff has taken his test to become a certified arborist which is an important element in in this process that it isn't just you know when dealing with a resident and talking about trees uh someone will be there with with the credentials that uh uh support his opinions um the uh penalty section um you know it does contain some sort of gradation that um civil infraction at first i believe and then a potentially a misdemeanor infraction uh for repetition repetition uh being repeated violations and i think that the you know overall it's something that will uh protect more trees um increase the replacements that will be expected, streamline the, maybe streamline isn't the right word, but clarify for residents about what is permitted and isn't permitted and streamline the application process. And I think also from the enforcement side, clarify and streamline what is or isn't permitted from the enforcement side. So there was a lot of room for improvement, I think, in where we were at and this has been a super collaborative process throughout the township, including outside experts to come up with something that is going to be workable for residents, for township staff, keep us on the right side of the line as far as preservation versus property rights, and continue to improve the health of the community through preservation of trees long term because, of course, you can't just protect what you have, you have to put in new trees, too, otherwise that they'll all eventually die on their own.

  38. civil infraction at first i believe and then a potentially a misdemeanor infraction uh for repetition repetition uh being repeated violations and i think that the you know overall it's something that will uh protect more trees um increase the replacements that will be expected, streamline the, maybe streamline isn't the right word, but clarify for residents about what is permitted and isn't permitted and streamline the application process. And I think also from the enforcement side, clarify and streamline what is or isn't permitted from the enforcement side. So there was a lot of room for improvement, I think, in where we were at and this has been a super collaborative process throughout the township, including outside experts to come up with something that is going to be workable for residents, for township staff, keep us on the right side of the line as far as preservation versus property rights, and continue to improve the health of the community through preservation of trees long term because, of course, you can't just protect what you have, you have to put in new trees, too, otherwise that they'll all eventually die on their own. So, Chris, you've been a great help in all of this, so, you know, spotted the things that need to be spotted and point out the, you know, where the bad ideas were and helped get us on the, you know, right track often, so thanks a lot. So, I have a question. Recently, we did the Enclave and I drove by there the other day to see because I've had people tell me what the heck are they doing? Where, when, where all the. trees went and I know there were some landmark trees and some hundred year old trees and I went by there and did they spare anything it's just all clear-cut is that right they submitted a tree permit application that was reviewed in conformance with the plan that was approved by the township board that tree permit was released so I I guess I am not familiar with there being anything that was inconsistent that was done other than what was approved okay yeah I just I you know hope had hoping because it's great that we have the the tree fund and the preservation and you know you have to plant new but you can't replace you know trees like that arborvitaes you know you could put a hundred arborvitaes

  39. trees long term because, of course, you can't just protect what you have, you have to put in new trees, too, otherwise that they'll all eventually die on their own. So, Chris, you've been a great help in all of this, so, you know, spotted the things that need to be spotted and point out the, you know, where the bad ideas were and helped get us on the, you know, right track often, so thanks a lot. So, I have a question. Recently, we did the Enclave and I drove by there the other day to see because I've had people tell me what the heck are they doing? Where, when, where all the. trees went and I know there were some landmark trees and some hundred year old trees and I went by there and did they spare anything it's just all clear-cut is that right they submitted a tree permit application that was reviewed in conformance with the plan that was approved by the township board that tree permit was released so I I guess I am not familiar with there being anything that was inconsistent that was done other than what was approved okay yeah I just I you know hope had hoping because it's great that we have the the tree fund and the preservation and you know you have to plant new but you can't replace you know trees like that arborvitaes you know you could put a hundred arborvitaes it's not gonna make up for some of those stately trees so very difficult when you develop a piece of property to work because of because of the grading requirements and the the infrastructure that has to go in underground to preserve a lot of trees in those areas of those trees and that hopefully some of the changes in the ordinance will help us you know depending on how you have them do a little bit more creative thinking and how they develop a piece of property so they can save areas of trees instead of cutting everything down which is what we're trying to avoid but that is under our current ordinance there's nothing that says they can't do it that way and that's fairly typical of how those types of projects have always been done but it's just kind of sad I've had a bunch of people reach out to me and that either live there two of them had their fences destroyed and other people just say what is going on on Telegraph and I was like okay it's a story you know and the development is is you know not necessarily a bad thing but it would be

  40. you know trees like that arborvitaes you know you could put a hundred arborvitaes it's not gonna make up for some of those stately trees so very difficult when you develop a piece of property to work because of because of the grading requirements and the the infrastructure that has to go in underground to preserve a lot of trees in those areas of those trees and that hopefully some of the changes in the ordinance will help us you know depending on how you have them do a little bit more creative thinking and how they develop a piece of property so they can save areas of trees instead of cutting everything down which is what we're trying to avoid but that is under our current ordinance there's nothing that says they can't do it that way and that's fairly typical of how those types of projects have always been done but it's just kind of sad I've had a bunch of people reach out to me and that either live there two of them had their fences destroyed and other people just say what is going on on Telegraph and I was like okay it's a story you know and the development is is you know not necessarily a bad thing but it would be I'm sure appreciated especially by the immediate residents you know if we could find ways to save even a few trees in certain areas so I'm hearing is support here tightening up changes are to make it less desirable to remove as many trees or woodland areas and more difficult to do such without some sort of a penalty or something of that nature so yes the quality of use for the our varieties we've reduced we've limited that to I think depending on what you're using it for if you're if you're filling in a woodland area that's primarily deciduous you can't use more than 30% our varieties to read to replace that area because that seems to be such a common thing it's like broom this or put this addition or put this yeah whatever then run a row of arborvitaes you know and properties where they just went all the way around the perimeter with arborvitaes and that was it yeah yeah so this will definitely help address that the intent was to improve the quality of the trees are being being planted double counting so if there are providing to

  41. development is is you know not necessarily a bad thing but it would be I'm sure appreciated especially by the immediate residents you know if we could find ways to save even a few trees in certain areas so I'm hearing is support here tightening up changes are to make it less desirable to remove as many trees or woodland areas and more difficult to do such without some sort of a penalty or something of that nature so yes the quality of use for the our varieties we've reduced we've limited that to I think depending on what you're using it for if you're if you're filling in a woodland area that's primarily deciduous you can't use more than 30% our varieties to read to replace that area because that seems to be such a common thing it's like broom this or put this addition or put this yeah whatever then run a row of arborvitaes you know and properties where they just went all the way around the perimeter with arborvitaes and that was it yeah yeah so this will definitely help address that the intent was to improve the quality of the trees are being being planted double counting so if there are providing to be there for screening they couldn't count it for a placement value so yes yeah that was clarified a little that was clarified in the ordinance as well that those screening trees are not allowed to be counted as part of the replacement value so that's great thank you thank you Chris thank you Martin for and the other people who addressed this when we had our tree permit and well actually the whole tree ordinance that was about 2007 we didn't have an ordinance at all whatsoever so there was a starting point and is it as good as it can be absolutely not but that was the first first model and certainly over the years we've heard a lot of things that as far as what we needed for improvements and certainly this addresses a lot of them landmark trees are important and they weren't addressed before rather than doing by caliper and all of that the penalty part increasing the type of trees that I think that's great and certainly will improve the just the overall value of these projects and I agree with you Chris be more

  42. the trees are being being planted double counting so if there are providing to be there for screening they couldn't count it for a placement value so yes yeah that was clarified a little that was clarified in the ordinance as well that those screening trees are not allowed to be counted as part of the replacement value so that's great thank you thank you Chris thank you Martin for and the other people who addressed this when we had our tree permit and well actually the whole tree ordinance that was about 2007 we didn't have an ordinance at all whatsoever so there was a starting point and is it as good as it can be absolutely not but that was the first first model and certainly over the years we've heard a lot of things that as far as what we needed for improvements and certainly this addresses a lot of them landmark trees are important and they weren't addressed before rather than doing by caliper and all of that the penalty part increasing the type of trees that I think that's great and certainly will improve the just the overall value of these projects and I agree with you Chris be more creative in how we go about working with the developers to try and save some of these trees but we haven't had that the other thing when we have a commercial development it certainly is easy to address these when there's because they have to have a permit that's filed with us applied for the other side of it would be when residents removed when they remove a landmark trees I have a concern about that and part of that is I guess notification how do we notify how are we going to let the residents know once this is approved and that just happens where residents aren't aware of some of our newer ordinances we had this discussion yesterday about driveways which we approved about a year ago and many residents aren't aware of when they put in a new type of driveway for example they have to issue they have to apply for a permit so the same thing with trees it's all a notification communication we've got a conversation in line with that that it would be we're looking at possibly and as part of the application that an

  43. creative in how we go about working with the developers to try and save some of these trees but we haven't had that the other thing when we have a commercial development it certainly is easy to address these when there's because they have to have a permit that's filed with us applied for the other side of it would be when residents removed when they remove a landmark trees I have a concern about that and part of that is I guess notification how do we notify how are we going to let the residents know once this is approved and that just happens where residents aren't aware of some of our newer ordinances we had this discussion yesterday about driveways which we approved about a year ago and many residents aren't aware of when they put in a new type of driveway for example they have to issue they have to apply for a permit so the same thing with trees it's all a notification communication we've got a conversation in line with that that it would be we're looking at possibly and as part of the application that an applicant would have to indicate that they have notified the HOA and kind of putting it between having the HOA deal with that applicant ahead you know be aware I what I think would be very important because I think a lot of HOAs, but if there isn't an active HOA, then how do they notify the neighbor? So that's definitely part of the discussion. Obviously, we can't wait for HOA approval to issue a permit, but we are trying to think of ways through the application process that we can at least push back to that applicant and say, did you notify your HOA? There should be an obligation that they have to notify their HOA. And I think that would go a long way. It will force a conversation between that applicant and the HOA, and it also puts it in the hands of the HOA where they can really have a little more hands-on in terms of the things that are sensitive to their area. I get phone calls sometimes from residents asking questions about tree removal, and had they known ahead of time, they would have had a conversation. So I think that not only just improving the standards, but part of that is incorporating, like you said, that conversation with these HOAs and notifying them ahead of time.

  44. it would be we're looking at possibly and as part of the application that an applicant would have to indicate that they have notified the HOA and kind of putting it between having the HOA deal with that applicant ahead you know be aware I what I think would be very important because I think a lot of HOAs, but if there isn't an active HOA, then how do they notify the neighbor? So that's definitely part of the discussion. Obviously, we can't wait for HOA approval to issue a permit, but we are trying to think of ways through the application process that we can at least push back to that applicant and say, did you notify your HOA? There should be an obligation that they have to notify their HOA. And I think that would go a long way. It will force a conversation between that applicant and the HOA, and it also puts it in the hands of the HOA where they can really have a little more hands-on in terms of the things that are sensitive to their area. I get phone calls sometimes from residents asking questions about tree removal, and had they known ahead of time, they would have had a conversation. So I think that not only just improving the standards, but part of that is incorporating, like you said, that conversation with these HOAs and notifying them ahead of time. Because currently, we notify if there's a new home coming into the neighborhood, but we're not notifying when we get a tree permit. So I just wanted to share that two kind of along the same lines. So any comments are welcome. With a new home, you know, we had a home that had been, shall we say, gone bad and had to be bulldozed, and of course it was overgrown. But the new owner came in and did one round of tree clearing. And, you know, it's startling, but it was an overgrown lot. But then they came back and did it again. and the homeowner was sort of like well I'm better at asking forgiveness than approval and it was like startling to be in the adjacent the other side street behind was a different sub and I was over there and it was like wow I mean just how much they took and and there's just like there was like no recourse at that point so I think part of the rollout of this ordinance you know if and when it is adopted that there would definitely be a rollout we've talked about about the informing the neighbors meeting with HOA is letting them know maybe doing a you know airing something on cable letting people know that this is a rollout and these are the changes so yeah it's a big endeavor we're looking forward to it but this is the first stop is today so we look for any input and if anything comes up along the way as it goes through the process ultimately with Township Board please you know share any concerns or ideas we're happy to you

  45. Because currently, we notify if there's a new home coming into the neighborhood, but we're not notifying when we get a tree permit. So I just wanted to share that two kind of along the same lines. So any comments are welcome. With a new home, you know, we had a home that had been, shall we say, gone bad and had to be bulldozed, and of course it was overgrown. But the new owner came in and did one round of tree clearing. And, you know, it's startling, but it was an overgrown lot. But then they came back and did it again. and the homeowner was sort of like well I'm better at asking forgiveness than approval and it was like startling to be in the adjacent the other side street behind was a different sub and I was over there and it was like wow I mean just how much they took and and there's just like there was like no recourse at that point so I think part of the rollout of this ordinance you know if and when it is adopted that there would definitely be a rollout we've talked about about the informing the neighbors meeting with HOA is letting them know maybe doing a you know airing something on cable letting people know that this is a rollout and these are the changes so yeah it's a big endeavor we're looking forward to it but this is the first stop is today so we look for any input and if anything comes up along the way as it goes through the process ultimately with Township Board please you know share any concerns or ideas we're happy to you know look into suggestions yeah no it's great I'm glad to hear it it goes to planning ZBA and and the board ultimately is that would it go all three stops you know typically it doesn't stop but I guess I would double check on ZBA ordinance amendments if they stop at ZBA however one thing to consider with this ordinance is and we've considered Martin is what if and what the impact is going to be now to the zoning board so a sidebar conversation we're having is that if we start seeing a huge influx because keep in mind this is a part of zoning code so anything within here people have the right to appeal to the zoning board for relief due to some of the new changes it may trigger more trips to the ZBA if that were the case then we're also talking about is there going to be how are we going to deal with that so this is all sort of a work in progress will we ultimately need a board that's you know that is a represents the township with our arborist where they can maybe if they can if there's complicated cases maybe they need to have a little more so we don't really quite know so it's something to think about because when you change an ordinance to this degree it could impact

  46. Township Board please you know share any concerns or ideas we're happy to you know look into suggestions yeah no it's great I'm glad to hear it it goes to planning ZBA and and the board ultimately is that would it go all three stops you know typically it doesn't stop but I guess I would double check on ZBA ordinance amendments if they stop at ZBA however one thing to consider with this ordinance is and we've considered Martin is what if and what the impact is going to be now to the zoning board so a sidebar conversation we're having is that if we start seeing a huge influx because keep in mind this is a part of zoning code so anything within here people have the right to appeal to the zoning board for relief due to some of the new changes it may trigger more trips to the ZBA if that were the case then we're also talking about is there going to be how are we going to deal with that so this is all sort of a work in progress will we ultimately need a board that's you know that is a represents the township with our arborist where they can maybe if they can if there's complicated cases maybe they need to have a little more so we don't really quite know so it's something to think about because when you change an ordinance to this degree it could impact the zoning board and we don't want to put all the tree determinations onto the zoning board so that's just something that we've also talked about going along the way so that's the long short of a long part of it we've also done some drafting on flow charts and summaries so that it communicates the requirements more clearly and easily um i just wanted to add that and then that's a great point i mean we've discussed a lot of different ideas about where they should go because the zba is already a very busy body doing important work um and so you know we'll keeping you guys have been keeping a close eye on that and so as this process goes through the good thing is this kind of takes out the interpretation of an arborist presenting an arborist plan and us accepting based on their interpretation that is the level of a tree um we feel like that was definitely not working and we feel that this change is definitely going to be better in the spirit of what we're trying to do is preservation yeah No, that's great. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for the presentation. I appreciate it. Any other questions? Griffin, you did a great job. Yeah. So looks like there's, is there any other general business not listed?

  47. it's something to think about because when you change an ordinance to this degree it could impact the zoning board and we don't want to put all the tree determinations onto the zoning board so that's just something that we've also talked about going along the way so that's the long short of a long part of it we've also done some drafting on flow charts and summaries so that it communicates the requirements more clearly and easily um i just wanted to add that and then that's a great point i mean we've discussed a lot of different ideas about where they should go because the zba is already a very busy body doing important work um and so you know we'll keeping you guys have been keeping a close eye on that and so as this process goes through the good thing is this kind of takes out the interpretation of an arborist presenting an arborist plan and us accepting based on their interpretation that is the level of a tree um we feel like that was definitely not working and we feel that this change is definitely going to be better in the spirit of what we're trying to do is preservation yeah No, that's great. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for the presentation. I appreciate it. Any other questions? Griffin, you did a great job. Yeah. So looks like there's, is there any other general business not listed? No. So our next meeting date is Wednesday, August 19th at 2 o'clock. I won't be there actually, so I won't see you there. You see one of us here then, right? All right. Yeah, for sure. Make a motion to adjourn. All those in favor? Aye. Any opposed? We're adjourned.