the-compact
Design Review Board Thursday, October 20, 2022 · 67 min

Bloomfield Township Design Review Board Meeting 'October 19, 2022'

Summary

The city council discussed and approved various sign proposals, including rebranding a Dunkin' Donuts sign, approving a monument sign for a business, and a proposal for a leasing office sign with an arrow and logo.

  • Rebranding a Dunkin' Donuts sign on Woodward Avenue was discussed and approved.
  • A monument sign for a business in Bloomfield was approved with modifications.
  • A proposal for a leasing office sign with an arrow and logo was discussed and approved.
  • Signage proposals for Deep Run Road and 14 Mile were discussed and approved.
  • A proposal for a golf facility was approved, citing its potential to attract customers and create jobs.

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Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. attending today for our design review board of october 19th if we could first stand for the pledge of allegiance i pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the republic for which one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all great first we have attendance sorry you're okay uh and next we have public comment is there anybody here that's not one of the applicants or speaking already okay then next we have approval of the minutes we've all had a chance to look them over unless there's any changes i move to approve motion by clerk brooke support support by trustee murray all in favor aye that does pass now we'll go on to our new items so we have signs first with 4319 woodward avenue dunkin donuts good to see you again so yeah i'll invite kevin deeters forward in september this application was tabled for further discussion with the dunkin donuts corporate offices regarding the sign design for their ground sign facing and along woodward avenue you um the applicant has worked with corporate and has actually come back with two options uh for you to consider the first first one located here, and that is a completely white back with the Dunkin' Drive-Thru. Recalling back to the September meeting, the concern was that this little bump here was originally proposed as a black background, and so this preferred design by Dunkin' Donuts just changes that to to white to match the rest of the sign face itself. There is the second option which would keep the coffee cup design, and again changing over to Dunkin' Drive-Thru, and so the existing ground sign, as I mentioned, looks like this today, and they're rebranding and looking to change the face of this sign moving forward, and they do

  2. tabled for further discussion with the dunkin donuts corporate offices regarding the sign design for their ground sign facing and along woodward avenue you um the applicant has worked with corporate and has actually come back with two options uh for you to consider the first first one located here, and that is a completely white back with the Dunkin' Drive-Thru. Recalling back to the September meeting, the concern was that this little bump here was originally proposed as a black background, and so this preferred design by Dunkin' Donuts just changes that to to white to match the rest of the sign face itself. There is the second option which would keep the coffee cup design, and again changing over to Dunkin' Drive-Thru, and so the existing ground sign, as I mentioned, looks like this today, and they're rebranding and looking to change the face of this sign moving forward, and they do have also a wall sign on the property. I included the minutes in the packet, this is from September, and you can see the discussion that occurred then, and I included what was considered at the September meeting, and here is the black spot on the sign that the design review board asked to possibly have another look at it from the corporate office. And so they did come back with the two options for you to consider. And I just threw this in here as this was originally approved in 2013 at this location. The current request does not change the actual structure. It's simply a face change. And so I will go back to the two options and ask if you have any questions. And just to catch up, new members here today, that ended up coming up because if they cut off that, which would obviously be the better choice, then that's actually a new sign that sends them back to the beginning so they can't change the structure. I figured you'd probably be wondering why aren't they

  3. rebranding and looking to change the face of this sign moving forward, and they do have also a wall sign on the property. I included the minutes in the packet, this is from September, and you can see the discussion that occurred then, and I included what was considered at the September meeting, and here is the black spot on the sign that the design review board asked to possibly have another look at it from the corporate office. And so they did come back with the two options for you to consider. And I just threw this in here as this was originally approved in 2013 at this location. The current request does not change the actual structure. It's simply a face change. And so I will go back to the two options and ask if you have any questions. And just to catch up, new members here today, that ended up coming up because if they cut off that, which would obviously be the better choice, then that's actually a new sign that sends them back to the beginning so they can't change the structure. I figured you'd probably be wondering why aren't they cutting it off? That would be the cleanest, simplest look, but I understand. So we couldn't do that. And then the black stood out and the white. So they were trying to give us options. And Kevin's been very good about that. Want to add anything? Well, Wade summed it up pretty much perfectly. So I don't have much to add other than what he said. Dunkin' Donuts would prefer what's on the screen right here without the coffee cup. But we just wanted to give a couple of options just in case. The board was looking for different options. So that if we had our choice and if Dunkin' had their choice, we would go with what's on the screen right here without the coffee cup. And what was their, what would, how would they explain them? bump to people without the because with coffee cup it's obvious it's right i mean like how would they explain the weird little bump yeah i mean i don't think they would need to explain it to anybody who would they have to explain it to you know next door it's a lovely app for all of our residents like to make comments right i mean it's just that you know when years ago when dunkin donuts had this sign put in the coffee cup with the steam on top was part of their branding now it isn't legally we're only allowed to do a face change without

  4. to the beginning so they can't change the structure. I figured you'd probably be wondering why aren't they cutting it off? That would be the cleanest, simplest look, but I understand. So we couldn't do that. And then the black stood out and the white. So they were trying to give us options. And Kevin's been very good about that. Want to add anything? Well, Wade summed it up pretty much perfectly. So I don't have much to add other than what he said. Dunkin' Donuts would prefer what's on the screen right here without the coffee cup. But we just wanted to give a couple of options just in case. The board was looking for different options. So that if we had our choice and if Dunkin' had their choice, we would go with what's on the screen right here without the coffee cup. And what was their, what would, how would they explain them? bump to people without the because with coffee cup it's obvious it's right i mean like how would they explain the weird little bump yeah i mean i don't think they would need to explain it to anybody who would they have to explain it to you know next door it's a lovely app for all of our residents like to make comments right i mean it's just that you know when years ago when dunkin donuts had this sign put in the coffee cup with the steam on top was part of their branding now it isn't legally we're only allowed to do a face change without having to go back to the zba for a setback variance so i mean believe me i would love to charge them thousands of dollars for a new sign rather than just doing a face change as a sign salesman i'd love to do that but in their best interest that's just not practical for them or or for the township i mean that's just a lot of time and money and effort with everyone involved just to just to change change the sign just a little bit i think we're so we're just trying to circumvent that that's all i do it's kevin right yes okay welcome back all right so uh any plans to change the wall sign to no uh well i'm sure they will at some point the reason we're changing the face is because it's sort of old and faded and it just looks i mean it doesn't look terrible but it doesn't look um what's the word appetizing either it doesn't doesn't get your attention doesn't doesn't look nice the way it is right now so we're they're just saying saying, hey, we want to put in a face that looks newer and sort of brighter. And I'm sure they'll change the wall sign at some point. But the way with these big corporations like Dunkin' Donuts, when they change their branding, for financial reasons,

  5. was part of their branding now it isn't legally we're only allowed to do a face change without having to go back to the zba for a setback variance so i mean believe me i would love to charge them thousands of dollars for a new sign rather than just doing a face change as a sign salesman i'd love to do that but in their best interest that's just not practical for them or or for the township i mean that's just a lot of time and money and effort with everyone involved just to just to change change the sign just a little bit i think we're so we're just trying to circumvent that that's all i do it's kevin right yes okay welcome back all right so uh any plans to change the wall sign to no uh well i'm sure they will at some point the reason we're changing the face is because it's sort of old and faded and it just looks i mean it doesn't look terrible but it doesn't look um what's the word appetizing either it doesn't doesn't get your attention doesn't doesn't look nice the way it is right now so we're they're just saying saying, hey, we want to put in a face that looks newer and sort of brighter. And I'm sure they'll change the wall sign at some point. But the way with these big corporations like Dunkin' Donuts, when they change their branding, for financial reasons, they have to pay for all the signs up front. So they can't afford to do that at every Dunkin' Donuts store across the country all at once. So they'll pick, like, okay, in January of this year, we're going to change them in Houston and Chicago and Dallas. And then next month, we're going to do Phoenix and Detroit and whatever. So I'm sure it'll change at some point. It's just Detroit hasn't come up in that cycle yet. Like, it's not Detroit's turn yet. So the wall sign will change at some point, but I don't have any info on when that's going to be. Well, I got to say, thank you for going back and working with them. It was not an easy request, I'm sure, so you had to work really hard. And I, sadly to say, do prefer the alternative sign with the coffee cup with the steam, which gives a reason for the bump up. I don't know what Brian would, my gut would be that Brian would think the same thing. You know, but I haven't talked to him about it. I don't know how much he disliked the black and the white stands out even more. I would guess that he would want the coffee cup. Okay, well, we're open to either options. That's why we gave two options. If we had our choice, we'd choose the other one, but that's up to the board. Well, and as the new person on this, because I haven't been doing the history of it, but I was just at a Duncan in Boston.

  6. when they change their branding, for financial reasons, they have to pay for all the signs up front. So they can't afford to do that at every Dunkin' Donuts store across the country all at once. So they'll pick, like, okay, in January of this year, we're going to change them in Houston and Chicago and Dallas. And then next month, we're going to do Phoenix and Detroit and whatever. So I'm sure it'll change at some point. It's just Detroit hasn't come up in that cycle yet. Like, it's not Detroit's turn yet. So the wall sign will change at some point, but I don't have any info on when that's going to be. Well, I got to say, thank you for going back and working with them. It was not an easy request, I'm sure, so you had to work really hard. And I, sadly to say, do prefer the alternative sign with the coffee cup with the steam, which gives a reason for the bump up. I don't know what Brian would, my gut would be that Brian would think the same thing. You know, but I haven't talked to him about it. I don't know how much he disliked the black and the white stands out even more. I would guess that he would want the coffee cup. Okay, well, we're open to either options. That's why we gave two options. If we had our choice, we'd choose the other one, but that's up to the board. Well, and as the new person on this, because I haven't been doing the history of it, but I was just at a Duncan in Boston. I think it looks kind of like what's the bump and I guess I prefer the look of the cup although from your perspective if you're going to do the the wall sign and get rid of the cup it's sort of counterproductive for you but I think the cup and I like it that it's just on the white that the other one had like that rich orange it kind of really jumped out at you my initial feeling before the explanation was the cup okay I'm happy to make a motion sure you guys are you ready I move that we approve the alternative proposed sign with the coffee cup report motion by clerk for support by Trustee Murray all in favor aye aye all opposed thank you I do appreciate it because like you said it's not easy dealing with corporate and townships so thank you for being the good middle man all right I think it looks good too I like the coffee cup thanks a lot all right so next we have 2527 South Telegraph for um body burn yeah is that at your place all right we do have a new tenant coming into this building at 2527 South Telegraph you can see here the orientation

  7. I think it looks kind of like what's the bump and I guess I prefer the look of the cup although from your perspective if you're going to do the the wall sign and get rid of the cup it's sort of counterproductive for you but I think the cup and I like it that it's just on the white that the other one had like that rich orange it kind of really jumped out at you my initial feeling before the explanation was the cup okay I'm happy to make a motion sure you guys are you ready I move that we approve the alternative proposed sign with the coffee cup report motion by clerk for support by Trustee Murray all in favor aye aye all opposed thank you I do appreciate it because like you said it's not easy dealing with corporate and townships so thank you for being the good middle man all right I think it looks good too I like the coffee cup thanks a lot all right so next we have 2527 South Telegraph for um body burn yeah is that at your place all right we do have a new tenant coming into this building at 2527 South Telegraph you can see here the orientation of the building at the intersection of South Telegraph and Square Lake Road you may remember the discussions with the SVS vision several months ago at this property as well The requested sign is here. The location of the tenant location is in this area here. So they have 24 feet 6 inches in width by 16 feet 6 inches in height. So that gives us the calculation of what size of sign would be permissible on this facade. And the size of sign that is permissible is, well, 23.42 square feet. And the body burn with the logo, that actually, once you draw the box around the entire sign, comes out to 75.88 square feet. I do want to also point out that the body burn sign individually does comply with the original maximum size permitted.

  8. we do have a new tenant coming into this building at 2527 South Telegraph you can see here the orientation of the building at the intersection of South Telegraph and Square Lake Road you may remember the discussions with the SVS vision several months ago at this property as well The requested sign is here. The location of the tenant location is in this area here. So they have 24 feet 6 inches in width by 16 feet 6 inches in height. So that gives us the calculation of what size of sign would be permissible on this facade. And the size of sign that is permissible is, well, 23.42 square feet. And the body burn with the logo, that actually, once you draw the box around the entire sign, comes out to 75.88 square feet. I do want to also point out that the body burn sign individually does comply with the original maximum size permitted. So it is the logo that bumps them up quite a bit past the permitted square footage allowable. What's the allowable? 23.42 square feet. So 23 is allowable. They're asking for 75. Yeah. And the body burn... burn sign itself does comply with that calculation of 23.42. They are also asking for a tenant panel sign on the ground mounted monument sign out front and that is approximately five square feet as well. I've included the tenant space floor plan for you all to look at. There are five overall tenant spaces in this center. This on the corner right here is where the SVS vision is approved and now open. So the body burn will be located on the other end sort of in the middle.

  9. I do want to also point out that the body burn sign individually does comply with the original maximum size permitted. So it is the logo that bumps them up quite a bit past the permitted square footage allowable. What's the allowable? 23.42 square feet. So 23 is allowable. They're asking for 75. Yeah. And the body burn... burn sign itself does comply with that calculation of 23.42. They are also asking for a tenant panel sign on the ground mounted monument sign out front and that is approximately five square feet as well. I've included the tenant space floor plan for you all to look at. There are five overall tenant spaces in this center. This on the corner right here is where the SVS vision is approved and now open. So the body burn will be located on the other end sort of in the middle. And you can see that the floor plan basically exists of workout machinery and a small office bathroom area. And I've taken some pictures for you all to see. Down here is the SVS. The body burn will be located in this area here. And you can see the relation to the other signage on the building at this point. And then here is the existing. Here is the existing. . . Thank you. ground sign, monument sign which is also proposed for a tenant sign. So the application itself does need to proceed to the Zoning Board of Appeals for the secondary signage because we have one on the monument ground sign and then one on the building. So it is a secondary signage request already. So they will have to proceed through that board as well as if they move forward as such.

  10. So the body burn will be located on the other end sort of in the middle. And you can see that the floor plan basically exists of workout machinery and a small office bathroom area. And I've taken some pictures for you all to see. Down here is the SVS. The body burn will be located in this area here. And you can see the relation to the other signage on the building at this point. And then here is the existing. Here is the existing. . . Thank you. ground sign, monument sign which is also proposed for a tenant sign. So the application itself does need to proceed to the Zoning Board of Appeals for the secondary signage because we have one on the monument ground sign and then one on the building. So it is a secondary signage request already. So they will have to proceed through that board as well as if they move forward as such. You said, I see it's 23.76 square feet allowed, but you said with the logo it bumps them up. Yeah, it all counts. What again was that? 75.8 square feet. Like three times the size. Yes. That's what I thought you said. I was just double checking. Because we measure a box around the entire sign itself. So with the logo there's a lot of this kind of empty space on both sides of it, but we're still counting that as one sign. And is the front going to be redone or which door would you put? Is it the one to the left or to the right? The door would be right here. Right, okay. And that goes into some of the other questions too, but I figure are you going to come up and speak on behalf or is the applicant here? Okay. So if you want to announce yourself, because I figure you might want to speak before we ask questions. Good to see you. toe and um the owner of the property and with me today is donna with inner city neon who's going to actually build the sign okay and then kate shannon and nancy giftis will be the operators they have a currently have a facility in gross point but i told them we want to we want you to

  11. So they will have to proceed through that board as well as if they move forward as such. You said, I see it's 23.76 square feet allowed, but you said with the logo it bumps them up. Yeah, it all counts. What again was that? 75.8 square feet. Like three times the size. Yes. That's what I thought you said. I was just double checking. Because we measure a box around the entire sign itself. So with the logo there's a lot of this kind of empty space on both sides of it, but we're still counting that as one sign. And is the front going to be redone or which door would you put? Is it the one to the left or to the right? The door would be right here. Right, okay. And that goes into some of the other questions too, but I figure are you going to come up and speak on behalf or is the applicant here? Okay. So if you want to announce yourself, because I figure you might want to speak before we ask questions. Good to see you. toe and um the owner of the property and with me today is donna with inner city neon who's going to actually build the sign okay and then kate shannon and nancy giftis will be the operators they have a currently have a facility in gross point but i told them we want to we want you to come to bloomfield all right so they're excited about opening up and um getting back to the to the variants so you're going to see me here again and again and again because everybody that goes on the monument sign because it's a secondary sign will require a variance and also i think we're coming here again for a special land use approval due to the fact that there's a 5 30 a.m class oh that'll be a different one today we will right i'm just saying you love seeing you though yeah being here i'll be here tonight at seven there you go and people like andrew that get up early in the morning that want to work out at 5 30 so she can get to work on time yep but we'll talk about that because now we got to talk about why you uh brought something at three times the size i thought i thought the architectural feature wouldn't be considered part of the sign but if it is yeah definitely we'll have to discuss that so so what kind of discussions have we with them about it's obviously three times the size so we don't usually i mean we have somebody here who's dealing with us being pretty picky on signs who would be shocked if we ever approved that too but

  12. they have a currently have a facility in gross point but i told them we want to we want you to come to bloomfield all right so they're excited about opening up and um getting back to the to the variants so you're going to see me here again and again and again because everybody that goes on the monument sign because it's a secondary sign will require a variance and also i think we're coming here again for a special land use approval due to the fact that there's a 5 30 a.m class oh that'll be a different one today we will right i'm just saying you love seeing you though yeah being here i'll be here tonight at seven there you go and people like andrew that get up early in the morning that want to work out at 5 30 so she can get to work on time yep but we'll talk about that because now we got to talk about why you uh brought something at three times the size i thought i thought the architectural feature wouldn't be considered part of the sign but if it is yeah definitely we'll have to discuss that so so what kind of discussions have we with them about it's obviously three times the size so we don't usually i mean we have somebody here who's dealing with us being pretty picky on signs who would be shocked if we ever approved that too but knowing it's got to come in lower what kind of discussions have we had with them already so we can aim them in the right direction because i assume they're also going to although they haven't asked they're probably going to put on decals like a lot of people try and put on on their door because trustee marie's already pointed out that you won't know what door it is so what's their real sign concept the whole thing so we can take it all into it it was important to have the body burn sign as large as possible so it could be seen and that's why that because of the positioning of building that's why we have to have a monument sign the logo was added on because that is the logo just to see if it would be amenable not realizing that you have to encompass the whole entire logo and sign as one rectangular because we we wouldn't consider it that many square footage if we if we would have known that it couldn't be figured separately so separately it's a very small increase in the maximum square footage so maybe you've already considered this but since we talked about which door is it would you consider moving the logo after body burn and then it would touch over the door and then it would really reduce your square footage it would make well would turn you into a rectangle you wouldn't have to reduce the size of body burn but you'd put the logo at the end of

  13. knowing it's got to come in lower what kind of discussions have we had with them already so we can aim them in the right direction because i assume they're also going to although they haven't asked they're probably going to put on decals like a lot of people try and put on on their door because trustee marie's already pointed out that you won't know what door it is so what's their real sign concept the whole thing so we can take it all into it it was important to have the body burn sign as large as possible so it could be seen and that's why that because of the positioning of building that's why we have to have a monument sign the logo was added on because that is the logo just to see if it would be amenable not realizing that you have to encompass the whole entire logo and sign as one rectangular because we we wouldn't consider it that many square footage if we if we would have known that it couldn't be figured separately so separately it's a very small increase in the maximum square footage so maybe you've already considered this but since we talked about which door is it would you consider moving the logo after body burn and then it would touch over the door and then it would really reduce your square footage it would make well would turn you into a rectangle you wouldn't have to reduce the size of body burn but you'd put the logo at the end of the end i suppose that that we'd be amenable to that if we didn't have to reduce the because otherwise the letters wouldn't be legible right i was going to say the logo is going to be here It's huge still, so it's still going to be bigger than what you might be thinking? Because he's just mentioned, too, they're not going to make the logo smaller. So it appears that the letter height... But what would that do to the square footage? The 19.75-inch letter height, so that means the logo would, in theory, be 19.75, same height as the letters? Would that fall within their normal? How does that fit with the square footage? If the logo was bigger, you'd have a little bigger box. I can get up my calculator and figure the square footage. That's a Donna question. The way they'll help us out. Yeah, the body burn sign itself is right at the maximum. So if you added that to the end of this, you would be exceeding. Your box would just grow bigger as a rectangle instead of a square. But it wouldn't be three times as much. It might be more within a consideration. Yeah, right now, is it really three feet by six feet? Yeah. Yes. So that's the... It's huge.

  14. a rectangle you wouldn't have to reduce the size of body burn but you'd put the logo at the end of the end i suppose that that we'd be amenable to that if we didn't have to reduce the because otherwise the letters wouldn't be legible right i was going to say the logo is going to be here It's huge still, so it's still going to be bigger than what you might be thinking? Because he's just mentioned, too, they're not going to make the logo smaller. So it appears that the letter height... But what would that do to the square footage? The 19.75-inch letter height, so that means the logo would, in theory, be 19.75, same height as the letters? Would that fall within their normal? How does that fit with the square footage? If the logo was bigger, you'd have a little bigger box. I can get up my calculator and figure the square footage. That's a Donna question. The way they'll help us out. Yeah, the body burn sign itself is right at the maximum. So if you added that to the end of this, you would be exceeding. Your box would just grow bigger as a rectangle instead of a square. But it wouldn't be three times as much. It might be more within a consideration. Yeah, right now, is it really three feet by six feet? Yeah. Yes. So that's the... It's huge. It's huge. I mean, maybe just to eliminate the logo and maximize the verbiage. The wall sign does not have the logo proposed to be on that, so... Are they going to be putting a Wayfinder sign on the door? Because that could be the logo. I think the thought for the door was it's a glass, mostly glass, so just like vinyl letters, maybe that have hours. And if we could incorporate the logo on the door without violating any rules, that would be another option. So... So... is normally what we do but we've noticed and unfortunately a lot of people have been brought back into compliance that people will come with a sign a sign idea and then they add a whole lot more signs so what is their true signage idea is that logo going to appear anybody else anywhere else or was it just well for sure the logo is going to appear inside no on the outside on the outside the the thought was obviously the monument sign that we saw and and this in this sign you with or without the logo if it's prohibitive because of the percentage of overage then we would have to consider either putting it alongside of it and shrinking the font size or just do without the logo and rely on the logo that's inside the building i guess i would find it most interesting

  15. So that's the... It's huge. It's huge. I mean, maybe just to eliminate the logo and maximize the verbiage. The wall sign does not have the logo proposed to be on that, so... Are they going to be putting a Wayfinder sign on the door? Because that could be the logo. I think the thought for the door was it's a glass, mostly glass, so just like vinyl letters, maybe that have hours. And if we could incorporate the logo on the door without violating any rules, that would be another option. So... So... is normally what we do but we've noticed and unfortunately a lot of people have been brought back into compliance that people will come with a sign a sign idea and then they add a whole lot more signs so what is their true signage idea is that logo going to appear anybody else anywhere else or was it just well for sure the logo is going to appear inside no on the outside on the outside the the thought was obviously the monument sign that we saw and and this in this sign you with or without the logo if it's prohibitive because of the percentage of overage then we would have to consider either putting it alongside of it and shrinking the font size or just do without the logo and rely on the logo that's inside the building i guess i would find it most interesting to consider putting the logo at the end maybe reduce the size so that it all fits leave your body burn the same height and then it kind of leads you to the right door because when i looked at this i was kind of like are you redoing the front or which door is body burns and that would take you over the top of the door still have your logo might be more reasonable that it would be a small variance before i have another question too just to be clear about the the finder sort of signs on the door we allow i understand there can be there can be a name on the door i mean they can put body burn yes yes um and you know address and so forth reasonably addressing yeah we have information only on a lot more than that right right oh i know we're going to go through township wide cleaning those up they were it was out of control they're putting in all the windows and yeah okay so and they wouldn't need to come back for that that's something they can do it's called directional sign it and that's how we address it so without doing this on an actual computer i'm just looking at if the uh three foot high logo would be cut in half to 18 inches high which is i'm just trying to compare to the existing 19.75 inch letters

  16. the logo and rely on the logo that's inside the building i guess i would find it most interesting to consider putting the logo at the end maybe reduce the size so that it all fits leave your body burn the same height and then it kind of leads you to the right door because when i looked at this i was kind of like are you redoing the front or which door is body burns and that would take you over the top of the door still have your logo might be more reasonable that it would be a small variance before i have another question too just to be clear about the the finder sort of signs on the door we allow i understand there can be there can be a name on the door i mean they can put body burn yes yes um and you know address and so forth reasonably addressing yeah we have information only on a lot more than that right right oh i know we're going to go through township wide cleaning those up they were it was out of control they're putting in all the windows and yeah okay so and they wouldn't need to come back for that that's something they can do it's called directional sign it and that's how we address it so without doing this on an actual computer i'm just looking at if the uh three foot high logo would be cut in half to 18 inches high which is i'm just trying to compare to the existing 19.75 inch letters then the assumption would be that the length would also be cut in so you'd be you'd probably be adding you know somewhere between four and five square feet so if the maximum allowable signage is 23.42 we'll just round it off to 23 and a half for discussion it might be something like 28 and a half so it might well it does go all the way because you're not putting it next to it you do have to go all that empty space on the right and the left too you don't just add those you do the box right but the box would be one continuous rectangle all the way to the end correct all the way i thought you were saying you were just adding the top and then your logo and that's not the way it's figured out it's no it will be encompassing the whole uh word spelled out body burn with the logo next to it but it would be shrunk so that the height would be the same i'm thinking i have to do you agree that it would only go five if you're still doing the full box which we have to do, it seems like it wouldn't drop all the way to 28 from 75. Can I have a suggestion? I mean, because right now the body burn language is compliant and that's great. We're also here to consider a monument sign which is one variance already.

  17. half to 18 inches high which is i'm just trying to compare to the existing 19.75 inch letters then the assumption would be that the length would also be cut in so you'd be you'd probably be adding you know somewhere between four and five square feet so if the maximum allowable signage is 23.42 we'll just round it off to 23 and a half for discussion it might be something like 28 and a half so it might well it does go all the way because you're not putting it next to it you do have to go all that empty space on the right and the left too you don't just add those you do the box right but the box would be one continuous rectangle all the way to the end correct all the way i thought you were saying you were just adding the top and then your logo and that's not the way it's figured out it's no it will be encompassing the whole uh word spelled out body burn with the logo next to it but it would be shrunk so that the height would be the same i'm thinking i have to do you agree that it would only go five if you're still doing the full box which we have to do, it seems like it wouldn't drop all the way to 28 from 75. Can I have a suggestion? I mean, because right now the body burn language is compliant and that's great. We're also here to consider a monument sign which is one variance already. I mean, my preference would be eliminate the logo, keep the sign on the wall in compliance, and we have only one variance we're dealing with, which is the monument sign. We've already allowed SVS to have a monument sign. It exists. There's an established purpose for that. Personally, I'd rather not give a variance for the wall sign and a variance for the ground sign, but that's me. I mean, so my proposal if I were to make a motion would be would we approve the body burn language as presented, minus the logo and the monument sign and forward it to the ZBA for consideration of the variance. That's my thought. So before you move on that, I just have a question. If in fact the body burn text was shrunk so that the body burn with the logo on the side did not exceed the 23.4, and I'm not saying we want to do that, we have to see it, would that be if you made that motion? That would be fine with me as far as that would be consistent. It would still fit within the spirit of your motion? It would be. Okay. It would be very good.

  18. We're also here to consider a monument sign which is one variance already. I mean, my preference would be eliminate the logo, keep the sign on the wall in compliance, and we have only one variance we're dealing with, which is the monument sign. We've already allowed SVS to have a monument sign. It exists. There's an established purpose for that. Personally, I'd rather not give a variance for the wall sign and a variance for the ground sign, but that's me. I mean, so my proposal if I were to make a motion would be would we approve the body burn language as presented, minus the logo and the monument sign and forward it to the ZBA for consideration of the variance. That's my thought. So before you move on that, I just have a question. If in fact the body burn text was shrunk so that the body burn with the logo on the side did not exceed the 23.4, and I'm not saying we want to do that, we have to see it, would that be if you made that motion? That would be fine with me as far as that would be consistent. It would still fit within the spirit of your motion? It would be. Okay. It would be very good. be so you want us to table it so that they could bring we don't approve signs that we don't see in front of us that's why kevin had to come back with the new version so we could table this so you could talk to them figure some things out and come back but we wouldn't we would only be looking at today's sign in front of us we wouldn't be conceptually voting i would say to keep things moving and um so that we can apply for the variance is if we approve the uh body burn sign without the logo and the size that it shows which is 14.275 by 1975 and then and the monument sign and then but not come back again for like once we're done we'd be done with the signs well we wouldn't approve it and then you come back which is why we would table it so you'd come back because if you came back there would be a no because we already agreed to it so that's what i'm saying do you want to table it talk to them figure it out and come back or do you because that's that's well it sounds to me like um it's not going to be approved if it exceeds the square footage because we're already getting a second variance for the monument would be my position so it boils down to is the is the logo important enough to have a smaller text sign that may or may

  19. be so you want us to table it so that they could bring we don't approve signs that we don't see in front of us that's why kevin had to come back with the new version so we could table this so you could talk to them figure some things out and come back but we wouldn't we would only be looking at today's sign in front of us we wouldn't be conceptually voting i would say to keep things moving and um so that we can apply for the variance is if we approve the uh body burn sign without the logo and the size that it shows which is 14.275 by 1975 and then and the monument sign and then but not come back again for like once we're done we'd be done with the signs well we wouldn't approve it and then you come back which is why we would table it so you'd come back because if you came back there would be a no because we already agreed to it so that's what i'm saying do you want to table it talk to them figure it out and come back or do you because that's that's well it sounds to me like um it's not going to be approved if it exceeds the square footage because we're already getting a second variance for the monument would be my position so it boils down to is the is the logo important enough to have a smaller text sign that may or may not be as legible so i don't know if we want to have that discussion at a later date it seems unlikely i mean the size of the words are pretty important because it is far off set off the road i can see why the size of the words are key, but that's your call. If you want a table, I'm happy to entertain that. Because we do sometimes go outside the overall variance like I think we did for SVS. It's just way outside for this one. I think SVS is bigger on the wall. Yeah, SVS has three signs, which... No, we turned down the one on the side. Didn't they do one on each side? They asked for it. We said no to that. Did you say no to the one on the right? Yeah. Wall signs. SVS wall signs. They only have two, not three. We said no to the right. They have two wall signs, one ground sign. That's right, you guys said yes, I said no. Well, we went around and around on that. They came back a couple times, and I think they justified a good business reason that was unique from other situations to justify that. And I think there's less of a reason to justify a variance here, so I'm getting more conservative, you're getting more liberal. Well, because having three signs is a lot better than the tiniest one on the thing,

  20. it boils down to is the is the logo important enough to have a smaller text sign that may or may not be as legible so i don't know if we want to have that discussion at a later date it seems unlikely i mean the size of the words are pretty important because it is far off set off the road i can see why the size of the words are key, but that's your call. If you want a table, I'm happy to entertain that. Because we do sometimes go outside the overall variance like I think we did for SVS. It's just way outside for this one. I think SVS is bigger on the wall. Yeah, SVS has three signs, which... No, we turned down the one on the side. Didn't they do one on each side? They asked for it. We said no to that. Did you say no to the one on the right? Yeah. Wall signs. SVS wall signs. They only have two, not three. We said no to the right. They have two wall signs, one ground sign. That's right, you guys said yes, I said no. Well, we went around and around on that. They came back a couple times, and I think they justified a good business reason that was unique from other situations to justify that. And I think there's less of a reason to justify a variance here, so I'm getting more conservative, you're getting more liberal. Well, because having three signs is a lot better than the tiniest one on the thing, so I was, yeah, I thought that was a little overwhelming, versus to give them everything and give them nothing seems strange. Well, they're getting a ground sign, and they're getting a variance. Everybody gets the ground sign going forward. Well, that's true. I mean, you can't have a monument there and not fill up the monument. We could say welcome to Bloomfield Township. We pretty much pre-approved everybody else. I have a question. They're on a corner there, which is different, because the way that Square Lake and Telegraph were connecting. I don't know. We did, but- they're on the corner spot because of the way those two roads connect. And this one is not. SOS is on the corner. Which is different than the monument sign. That's why you gave them the second sign on the other side. I mean, I'm certainly going to support the monument sign. Yeah, we already set the precedent for that. It's still a variance. Are you married to the colors there? Because the reddish, the brownish-red jumps out, but the kind of gray, you know, if you really are worried about, you want people to see and read it, it's more faint considering I know that corner, it's fairly far from the road. I'm not sure of those like corporate colors that we're adhering to. The colors are black, gray, red, and white. So I mean, you can change it to black, the body part. I'm just thinking for your visibility. It would just stand out more.

  21. Well, because having three signs is a lot better than the tiniest one on the thing, so I was, yeah, I thought that was a little overwhelming, versus to give them everything and give them nothing seems strange. Well, they're getting a ground sign, and they're getting a variance. Everybody gets the ground sign going forward. Well, that's true. I mean, you can't have a monument there and not fill up the monument. We could say welcome to Bloomfield Township. We pretty much pre-approved everybody else. I have a question. They're on a corner there, which is different, because the way that Square Lake and Telegraph were connecting. I don't know. We did, but- they're on the corner spot because of the way those two roads connect. And this one is not. SOS is on the corner. Which is different than the monument sign. That's why you gave them the second sign on the other side. I mean, I'm certainly going to support the monument sign. Yeah, we already set the precedent for that. It's still a variance. Are you married to the colors there? Because the reddish, the brownish-red jumps out, but the kind of gray, you know, if you really are worried about, you want people to see and read it, it's more faint considering I know that corner, it's fairly far from the road. I'm not sure of those like corporate colors that we're adhering to. The colors are black, gray, red, and white. So I mean, you can change it to black, the body part. I'm just thinking for your visibility. It would just stand out more. So one thing, too, I wouldn't assume that you would automatically not be okay if you came back with something a little more reasonable. Because like you just pointed out, somebody who is stricter on one and not as strict on another completely flipped because of a situation. But I personally wouldn't be as against Val's idea of go a little bit bigger across to do that. Like when you're talking about a 23 square foot and you're asking for like 28, that is not a hard sell compared to, I want 23, or I can get 23, can I have 75? So I wouldn't, I don't want you to assume that it would be an automatic no if you came back with another option. Just like Kevin came back with another option, he got a, yeah, like, uh... So I don't know. if I don't know what's going through, i wouldn't want you to settle if you think you can come up with something else well the consensus that i'm hearing from the owners of the body burn operation is that they don't really want to shrink the text of the letters but if we could propose the logo being alongside of it without shrinking the letters if you think that's something that's a could be considered then and i think that would tie into your door personally aesthetically i'm not always on this board i'm just going to warn you but um that maybe before you finish your next case we could

  22. It would just stand out more. So one thing, too, I wouldn't assume that you would automatically not be okay if you came back with something a little more reasonable. Because like you just pointed out, somebody who is stricter on one and not as strict on another completely flipped because of a situation. But I personally wouldn't be as against Val's idea of go a little bit bigger across to do that. Like when you're talking about a 23 square foot and you're asking for like 28, that is not a hard sell compared to, I want 23, or I can get 23, can I have 75? So I wouldn't, I don't want you to assume that it would be an automatic no if you came back with another option. Just like Kevin came back with another option, he got a, yeah, like, uh... So I don't know. if I don't know what's going through, i wouldn't want you to settle if you think you can come up with something else well the consensus that i'm hearing from the owners of the body burn operation is that they don't really want to shrink the text of the letters but if we could propose the logo being alongside of it without shrinking the letters if you think that's something that's a could be considered then and i think that would tie into your door personally aesthetically i'm not always on this board i'm just going to warn you but um that maybe before you finish your next case we could have a drawing ready for you um how just out of estimate if it was at the same size and the logo next to it do we have an idea of an estimate of what square footage i think the sign contractor is here maybe she'd be able to help out yeah and well we could perhaps approve a sign not below it next to it so it's not four feet i thought it was three feet high it's it it's three feet high and six feet seven inches wide if you took the 19.75 times say 20 just by three as an example it would be um we could do that math real quick well three feet times one and a half would be four and a half feet so you'd go from you're twenty three point seven six to uh what you 28 and a quarter. Yeah, which is, I think I said something in the neighborhood of 28. Right, that was your estimate. Yeah, and I don't think that's as huge of an ask as 75. Definitely. If I can't guarantee you, you would get three yeses that day. If I ask somebody for $75 or $28, they'd probably give you 28 before they'd give you 75, right?

  23. this board i'm just going to warn you but um that maybe before you finish your next case we could have a drawing ready for you um how just out of estimate if it was at the same size and the logo next to it do we have an idea of an estimate of what square footage i think the sign contractor is here maybe she'd be able to help out yeah and well we could perhaps approve a sign not below it next to it so it's not four feet i thought it was three feet high it's it it's three feet high and six feet seven inches wide if you took the 19.75 times say 20 just by three as an example it would be um we could do that math real quick well three feet times one and a half would be four and a half feet so you'd go from you're twenty three point seven six to uh what you 28 and a quarter. Yeah, which is, I think I said something in the neighborhood of 28. Right, that was your estimate. Yeah, and I don't think that's as huge of an ask as 75. Definitely. If I can't guarantee you, you would get three yeses that day. If I ask somebody for $75 or $28, they'd probably give you 28 before they'd give you 75, right? I can definitely tell you that if you expected to pay me $23 for something, I said you owe me 75, you'd question it. But I can't guarantee you'd get three yeses, but you wouldn't necessarily get three noes, is all I'm telling you. I can never guarantee anyone else's voices, but I'm not saying that that's overwhelmingly out of an ask. Considering somebody else got double signage. Yeah, they did. Can we entertain a motion that says logo to the right, not exceeding total amount of 28 square feet? If you're not going to look at the sign, then I would liken that motion that it is administratively at least viewed by the supervisor, because I don't trust sometimes the signs that come back. They look a little different than what we thought we were getting. We'll just bring it back then. We don't want to be able to assume that responsibility. We'll always bring the design back. We'll just table it then. I'd be happy to do that. It's just a matter of timing because they're trying to open, you know, beginning of the year. But the next one is two weeks from now. Do you think you could have it for the next meeting in two weeks? I'm sure we could, but you might have other items on the agenda. I don't know. No, we don't have that.

  24. If I ask somebody for $75 or $28, they'd probably give you 28 before they'd give you 75, right? I can definitely tell you that if you expected to pay me $23 for something, I said you owe me 75, you'd question it. But I can't guarantee you'd get three yeses, but you wouldn't necessarily get three noes, is all I'm telling you. I can never guarantee anyone else's voices, but I'm not saying that that's overwhelmingly out of an ask. Considering somebody else got double signage. Yeah, they did. Can we entertain a motion that says logo to the right, not exceeding total amount of 28 square feet? If you're not going to look at the sign, then I would liken that motion that it is administratively at least viewed by the supervisor, because I don't trust sometimes the signs that come back. They look a little different than what we thought we were getting. We'll just bring it back then. We don't want to be able to assume that responsibility. We'll always bring the design back. We'll just table it then. I'd be happy to do that. It's just a matter of timing because they're trying to open, you know, beginning of the year. But the next one is two weeks from now. Do you think you could have it for the next meeting in two weeks? I'm sure we could, but you might have other items on the agenda. I don't know. No, we don't have that. many signage issues so for him to come back he could be on our next drb in two weeks yeah yeah november 2nd if you're worried about our agenda there's not usually a lot but does it does it push us past the next zba yeah because it's already pretty booked out you have time to do this before zba because zba is so far booked out we are not far booked out there aren't many sign requests i mean one option as i just said the applicant is i mean if they decided that they want the ground sign to be their primary sign by right they could at least get a presence on the ground sign as their one permitted sign and then working through the details of zba for the wall sign where the wall signs of variance yeah so at least they have an option to get a presence on that ground sign without zba because really if that's their permitted primary we'd allow it the only risk is what if people hear the zba says we can't have a second sign now they don't have one on the wall yeah that's that's the only risk because you never know who's sitting in the seats that's the risk true but it's a great idea i um we table it i think i think since you have time with cba i would suggest that you table it and

  25. many signage issues so for him to come back he could be on our next drb in two weeks yeah yeah november 2nd if you're worried about our agenda there's not usually a lot but does it does it push us past the next zba yeah because it's already pretty booked out you have time to do this before zba because zba is so far booked out we are not far booked out there aren't many sign requests i mean one option as i just said the applicant is i mean if they decided that they want the ground sign to be their primary sign by right they could at least get a presence on the ground sign as their one permitted sign and then working through the details of zba for the wall sign where the wall signs of variance yeah so at least they have an option to get a presence on that ground sign without zba because really if that's their permitted primary we'd allow it the only risk is what if people hear the zba says we can't have a second sign now they don't have one on the wall yeah that's that's the only risk because you never know who's sitting in the seats that's the risk true but it's a great idea i um we table it i think i think since you have time with cba i would suggest that you table it and bring back another option with it next to it yeah i personally think it would look nice to have the logo at the end it would make more sense for the keep the logo it would go over the door i would be in favor of that but i'm not sure i'll be here on the next meeting he's one of brian's friends okay what do you think what's your decision do you want us a table i think um we'd like to come back with um another sign with the logo to the right without changing the size of the words body burn and without increasing the height and take a shot at that and then uh i guess it's still subject to the zba's approval right because they're going to be typically a unified front from us helps in the zba that's why i'm saying it you have time for zba and if it is something that we can all work on and and get forward it would look it would look better at that meeting should we apply for the zba just to get the docket we'll talk let's talk yeah um i mean we can talk we can at least get something in

  26. i um we table it i think i think since you have time with cba i would suggest that you table it and bring back another option with it next to it yeah i personally think it would look nice to have the logo at the end it would make more sense for the keep the logo it would go over the door i would be in favor of that but i'm not sure i'll be here on the next meeting he's one of brian's friends okay what do you think what's your decision do you want us a table i think um we'd like to come back with um another sign with the logo to the right without changing the size of the words body burn and without increasing the height and take a shot at that and then uh i guess it's still subject to the zba's approval right because they're going to be typically a unified front from us helps in the zba that's why i'm saying it you have time for zba and if it is something that we can all work on and and get forward it would look it would look better at that meeting should we apply for the zba just to get the docket we'll talk let's talk yeah um i mean we can talk we can at least get something in the door to get you on the december agenda but you understand that you still need to finalize your plans yeah we can work with you and you have finalized the plans quite quickly yeah okay then do i have a motion to table i move we table the body burn signed to the next meeting motion by clerk brooke support support by chessie murray all in favor hi hi all right thank you and we get to see you again in two weeks then tonight if you come to the floor thank you and thank you for coming to our township we're glad you guys are coming it'll be great yeah when is your anticipated open we'll be sure and invite us to the groundbreaking absolutely i was gonna say is it pilates is it yoga is it cool very nice well thanks for coming all right thank you so next we have guys soon glenn's of bloomfield is here again and we have 7480 bingham road for glenn's of bloomfield so i will invite stephanie up as we walk through these plans for the overall sign

  27. to get the docket we'll talk let's talk yeah um i mean we can talk we can at least get something in the door to get you on the december agenda but you understand that you still need to finalize your plans yeah we can work with you and you have finalized the plans quite quickly yeah okay then do i have a motion to table i move we table the body burn signed to the next meeting motion by clerk brooke support support by chessie murray all in favor hi hi all right thank you and we get to see you again in two weeks then tonight if you come to the floor thank you and thank you for coming to our township we're glad you guys are coming it'll be great yeah when is your anticipated open we'll be sure and invite us to the groundbreaking absolutely i was gonna say is it pilates is it yoga is it cool very nice well thanks for coming all right thank you so next we have guys soon glenn's of bloomfield is here again and we have 7480 bingham road for glenn's of bloomfield so i will invite stephanie up as we walk through these plans for the overall sign comprehensive plan for this property um um there is a um a map here in your packet that might be helpful as we go along to follow um there do you have a map in here first page of it it's right after the plat maps from like plat map okay let's see this yep keep on going sorry it's too many here we go after this one right perfect okay so we will start with the first sign uh at the uh corner of south telegraph road and west 14 mile road you so you This is the location of the temporary sign that the board approved earlier this spring, and the request, you can see here, the before temporary sign, the proposed monument ground sign in this configuration. It is going to be a two-sided monument sign. Based on comments the applicant heard from the board, they have reddened the brick from their original proposal to match the large sign and the brick on the perimeter wall up at, is that Franklin?

  28. so i will invite stephanie up as we walk through these plans for the overall sign comprehensive plan for this property um um there is a um a map here in your packet that might be helpful as we go along to follow um there do you have a map in here first page of it it's right after the plat maps from like plat map okay let's see this yep keep on going sorry it's too many here we go after this one right perfect okay so we will start with the first sign uh at the uh corner of south telegraph road and west 14 mile road you so you This is the location of the temporary sign that the board approved earlier this spring, and the request, you can see here, the before temporary sign, the proposed monument ground sign in this configuration. It is going to be a two-sided monument sign. Based on comments the applicant heard from the board, they have reddened the brick from their original proposal to match the large sign and the brick on the perimeter wall up at, is that Franklin? Telegraph, and then it does continue on to 14 as well. Okay. There are plans in your packet also that will show you the proposed lighting. It's towards the end of the packet as well as landscaping. Again, I want to mention that this will now be a two-sided sign. Originally, when it came before you, it was just a one-sided sign. So they have incorporated both sides and a 360 landscape plan around the monument sign itself, and this is the sign, but just provides you the dimension. of the sign. So it's 60 by 120, 18 inches in width, looking at it at the profile stage.

  29. It is going to be a two-sided monument sign. Based on comments the applicant heard from the board, they have reddened the brick from their original proposal to match the large sign and the brick on the perimeter wall up at, is that Franklin? Telegraph, and then it does continue on to 14 as well. Okay. There are plans in your packet also that will show you the proposed lighting. It's towards the end of the packet as well as landscaping. Again, I want to mention that this will now be a two-sided sign. Originally, when it came before you, it was just a one-sided sign. So they have incorporated both sides and a 360 landscape plan around the monument sign itself, and this is the sign, but just provides you the dimension. of the sign. So it's 60 by 120, 18 inches in width, looking at it at the profile stage. And would you like me to continue on with all of the signs, or would you like to ask any questions on each sign as we go through? Maybe let's do each, because I have two questions about that one. You did a great job. You really did. You had a lot coming at you. You had a lot coming at you. My only question was, so with solar, I also have those in my yard, and they don't work three months out of the year, but we don't get any sun. Will you have any auxiliary lighting or anything set up to help light it up in winter? So there are battery options with them too that we can utilize. So they were a recommendation from the sign manufacturer. The existing lighting that's there for that temporary sign has been a little problematic. They keep falling, and the bulbs for that specific model, they don't make them in a brighter, kind of more modern white light that we wanted to. It's very yellow looking, so we thought we'd go with the recommendation of the solar lights. And then the batteries help out in winter? Yes. Perfect. And then this is going to be embarrassing, but I'm not sure. Are boxwoods evergreen? Yes. Perfect. That was my other question. I've never used boxwoods. I'm so used to Arborvitae being our DBA thing. Our go-to. Our go-to. Our go-to. Our go-to. Our go-to.

  30. And would you like me to continue on with all of the signs, or would you like to ask any questions on each sign as we go through? Maybe let's do each, because I have two questions about that one. You did a great job. You really did. You had a lot coming at you. You had a lot coming at you. My only question was, so with solar, I also have those in my yard, and they don't work three months out of the year, but we don't get any sun. Will you have any auxiliary lighting or anything set up to help light it up in winter? So there are battery options with them too that we can utilize. So they were a recommendation from the sign manufacturer. The existing lighting that's there for that temporary sign has been a little problematic. They keep falling, and the bulbs for that specific model, they don't make them in a brighter, kind of more modern white light that we wanted to. It's very yellow looking, so we thought we'd go with the recommendation of the solar lights. And then the batteries help out in winter? Yes. Perfect. And then this is going to be embarrassing, but I'm not sure. Are boxwoods evergreen? Yes. Perfect. That was my other question. I've never used boxwoods. I'm so used to Arborvitae being our DBA thing. Our go-to. Our go-to. Our go-to. Our go-to. Our go-to. Because Lancey would look pretty, I just wanted to make sure it was. Yeah, I had to ask on the species myself. Evergreen. Perfect. Yeah, boxwoods are evergreen. Very nice. Perfect. All right, that was my only question on that. Does anyone else have questions on that side? No. No? Okay. So we will move on to position number two on your map. And that is at Deep Run Road and 14 Mile. And you can, in this picture, see the existing condition. But through the discussions, the applicant has found that bringing some attention to this intersection to help internally as well as externally notify where you're located. This is essentially the same sign as the one we just looked at. And again, this one's 90 by 45, so a little bit smaller, but the same face and color scheme as prior.

  31. Because Lancey would look pretty, I just wanted to make sure it was. Yeah, I had to ask on the species myself. Evergreen. Perfect. Yeah, boxwoods are evergreen. Very nice. Perfect. All right, that was my only question on that. Does anyone else have questions on that side? No. No? Okay. So we will move on to position number two on your map. And that is at Deep Run Road and 14 Mile. And you can, in this picture, see the existing condition. But through the discussions, the applicant has found that bringing some attention to this intersection to help internally as well as externally notify where you're located. This is essentially the same sign as the one we just looked at. And again, this one's 90 by 45, so a little bit smaller, but the same face and color scheme as prior. That is one giant man standing next to you. He's a little taller than your average, I think. Yeah. He's on the piston, so. Any questions about this one? The landscaping and lighting package. would mirror the same as the one on 14 as well and moving on to position three there's an existing sort of pull sign here says Glenn's office and the proposal is to utilize a leasing office sign with an arrow and the logo on it and it is also two-sided sign and it is overall 60 inches tall and 48 inches wide not including the posts I just have one question on that again I'm not always sitting here strikes me as tall that it's bigger than maybe it would need to be just to point an arrow to the leasing office just

  32. And again, this one's 90 by 45, so a little bit smaller, but the same face and color scheme as prior. That is one giant man standing next to you. He's a little taller than your average, I think. Yeah. He's on the piston, so. Any questions about this one? The landscaping and lighting package. would mirror the same as the one on 14 as well and moving on to position three there's an existing sort of pull sign here says Glenn's office and the proposal is to utilize a leasing office sign with an arrow and the logo on it and it is also two-sided sign and it is overall 60 inches tall and 48 inches wide not including the posts I just have one question on that again I'm not always sitting here strikes me as tall that it's bigger than maybe it would need to be just to point an arrow to the leasing office just my personal opinion yeah I believe it's similar to the existing height of the existing sign there okay it's quite hilly in that area there's the retaining wall I believe and then the sidewalk path that runs along 14 so the the height is really to stand out we wanted it to match the the black background with the silver kind of metallic font so it would be directional but tied into our sign sign signage for the monuments okay thank you i do like you've made them all two-sided that helps a lot because when i'm in an area i don't know i'm like oh i know there's a sign there i just don't know what it says it's very helpful for both ways yeah i think it's a really good idea i think it looks better yeah we have three entrances to the property neither of which lead to the leasing office right so part of our challenge is um tying the two being that our leasing office is a converted white brick ranch home into a business so trying to direct people the right way especially when the tendency is to turn right even though we don't have that monument sign there now it's very obvious and a community entrance so the tendency is for everybody to turn into there so our challenge

  33. that it's bigger than maybe it would need to be just to point an arrow to the leasing office just my personal opinion yeah I believe it's similar to the existing height of the existing sign there okay it's quite hilly in that area there's the retaining wall I believe and then the sidewalk path that runs along 14 so the the height is really to stand out we wanted it to match the the black background with the silver kind of metallic font so it would be directional but tied into our sign sign signage for the monuments okay thank you i do like you've made them all two-sided that helps a lot because when i'm in an area i don't know i'm like oh i know there's a sign there i just don't know what it says it's very helpful for both ways yeah i think it's a really good idea i think it looks better yeah we have three entrances to the property neither of which lead to the leasing office right so part of our challenge is um tying the two being that our leasing office is a converted white brick ranch home into a business so trying to direct people the right way especially when the tendency is to turn right even though we don't have that monument sign there now it's very obvious and a community entrance so the tendency is for everybody to turn into there so our challenge is to direct them to bingham where the office entrance is okay moving to position four uh we have the existing sort of uh yeah sidearm sign with the free swinging uh sign uh in this position here the proposal is to actually uh fix the sign to the existing structure that's there so it does so it removes the swinging action in the wind and therefore um lessens maintenance concerns uh concerns and and that sign being you know beat up over the years you by the wind, and so forth. So it is two-sided, and there is the dimensions. Again, the structure will remain the same. It's just the sign face itself with the arrows, depending on which direction you're coming from, to provide direction to the clubhouse and leasing office, as Stephanie mentioned, which is a residential home, and appears as such, so people need that assistance

  34. obvious and a community entrance so the tendency is for everybody to turn into there so our challenge is to direct them to bingham where the office entrance is okay moving to position four uh we have the existing sort of uh yeah sidearm sign with the free swinging uh sign uh in this position here the proposal is to actually uh fix the sign to the existing structure that's there so it does so it removes the swinging action in the wind and therefore um lessens maintenance concerns uh concerns and and that sign being you know beat up over the years you by the wind, and so forth. So it is two-sided, and there is the dimensions. Again, the structure will remain the same. It's just the sign face itself with the arrows, depending on which direction you're coming from, to provide direction to the clubhouse and leasing office, as Stephanie mentioned, which is a residential home, and appears as such, so people need that assistance knowing where to turn and where to go. I must note that it's the same guy in each picture, not only in this. He changes height in every photo. He does. He's in like almost every presentation of a sign. He's a very busy model. He's everywhere. He's been four feet tall, he's been seven feet tall. He's in all the sign presentations. Same outfit. Same outfit, too. Position five. I don't have any of these pictures in the winter, either. Sorry. Go ahead, please. Okay. Position five is shown behind the actual leasing office and clubhouse. So you can see the residential structure nature of the facility. This sign is proposed as a repurpose of the temple. You're going to drop the Gearmaster, the silicone, or down Kommadance dot com. It's official. sign that was originally located at Telegraph and 14 Mile and this proposed to become a permanent sign so that there is a long driveway as you see the view

  35. mentioned, which is a residential home, and appears as such, so people need that assistance knowing where to turn and where to go. I must note that it's the same guy in each picture, not only in this. He changes height in every photo. He does. He's in like almost every presentation of a sign. He's a very busy model. He's everywhere. He's been four feet tall, he's been seven feet tall. He's in all the sign presentations. Same outfit. Same outfit, too. Position five. I don't have any of these pictures in the winter, either. Sorry. Go ahead, please. Okay. Position five is shown behind the actual leasing office and clubhouse. So you can see the residential structure nature of the facility. This sign is proposed as a repurpose of the temple. You're going to drop the Gearmaster, the silicone, or down Kommadance dot com. It's official. sign that was originally located at Telegraph and 14 Mile and this proposed to become a permanent sign so that there is a long driveway as you see the view from Bingham Road here there's a long driveway the house is right back in here so the applicant really is seeking this sign to further identify the exact location of the leasing office itself only difference here is you added the hours right correct that is 72 by 70 to us 72 72 by 72 yeah when he got shorter here I do like I was here when you brought in the lighter brick signs yeah and I found that a distraction so I'm really happy to be here today and see that I like the redder brick I think it'll look much nicer thank you yeah ownership and and a regional management team kind of concurred with that idea originally they wanted to do the the faux stone look and then um agreed a new fresh look but it just sort of didn't yeah it didn't flow so that one's six feet by six feet

  36. to become a permanent sign so that there is a long driveway as you see the view from Bingham Road here there's a long driveway the house is right back in here so the applicant really is seeking this sign to further identify the exact location of the leasing office itself only difference here is you added the hours right correct that is 72 by 70 to us 72 72 by 72 yeah when he got shorter here I do like I was here when you brought in the lighter brick signs yeah and I found that a distraction so I'm really happy to be here today and see that I like the redder brick I think it'll look much nicer thank you yeah ownership and and a regional management team kind of concurred with that idea originally they wanted to do the the faux stone look and then um agreed a new fresh look but it just sort of didn't yeah it didn't flow so that one's six feet by six feet yes 72. is that not that doesn't seem small part of it is buried so i think it says on um part of the posts which are 72 feet are buried um for mounting i think i think that's even taller than your other signs are only at five feet so this one will be much tall it would be taller this one is pretty huge we were hoping to have the corner of 14 and bingham approved as a directional sign and similar to the one that would be closer to bingham in front of the office that you can see if you're traveling um southbound on bingham from the the one entrance so this one really would be the only identifier as the glens of bloomfield since the others are purely directional is that why this one's bright white instead of the more calm nice that and that the brick is painted white on the actual building so we felt like it matches the architecture better yes it is pretty big though well and that's the thing you can't really compare because it's obviously he didn't just shrink to five feet tall so earth yeah so he's it's now showing him smaller than the sign so i can't trust that image and that's why i'm like is are we sure it

  37. yes 72. is that not that doesn't seem small part of it is buried so i think it says on um part of the posts which are 72 feet are buried um for mounting i think i think that's even taller than your other signs are only at five feet so this one will be much tall it would be taller this one is pretty huge we were hoping to have the corner of 14 and bingham approved as a directional sign and similar to the one that would be closer to bingham in front of the office that you can see if you're traveling um southbound on bingham from the the one entrance so this one really would be the only identifier as the glens of bloomfield since the others are purely directional is that why this one's bright white instead of the more calm nice that and that the brick is painted white on the actual building so we felt like it matches the architecture better yes it is pretty big though well and that's the thing you can't really compare because it's obviously he didn't just shrink to five feet tall so earth yeah so he's it's now showing him smaller than the sign so i can't trust that image and that's why i'm like is are we sure it doesn't cover up more of this six feet by six feet area like you know normally these are actually kept the same size so you can compare what the guy looks like right that's kind of what we're making jokes so since i can't use him as a comparison so the the width is shorter is that really only six feet in between there and it's not going to cover up like a whole bunch of the house so on another one he was shown at six and six and four six and a half feet tall now he's being shown just under six feet so i can't use the man anymore so uh since i can't use him i'm trying to use the house on how big this will look that whereas that doesn't look like six feet across but it might be that's what i'm saying is this truly where it would be this is the scale even though none of these are to scale this particular picture is to scale meaning the sign itself is to scale but it's just it's photoshopped in front of the picture of the of the building so i don't know how accurate it is so that's what i'm saying this one yes you've written these numbers but everything around it has been shrunken to make it look different so when i'm looking at this sign when it's installed will

  38. him smaller than the sign so i can't trust that image and that's why i'm like is are we sure it doesn't cover up more of this six feet by six feet area like you know normally these are actually kept the same size so you can compare what the guy looks like right that's kind of what we're making jokes so since i can't use him as a comparison so the the width is shorter is that really only six feet in between there and it's not going to cover up like a whole bunch of the house so on another one he was shown at six and six and four six and a half feet tall now he's being shown just under six feet so i can't use the man anymore so uh since i can't use him i'm trying to use the house on how big this will look that whereas that doesn't look like six feet across but it might be that's what i'm saying is this truly where it would be this is the scale even though none of these are to scale this particular picture is to scale meaning the sign itself is to scale but it's just it's photoshopped in front of the picture of the of the building so i don't know how accurate it is so that's what i'm saying this one yes you've written these numbers but everything around it has been shrunken to make it look different so when i'm looking at this sign when it's installed will it actually only cover that amount or is it actually bigger and it's going to cover like this amount that's all i'll know if it looks too big sure it's gonna look more like a billboard than it's yeah will it will it look like this which matches and looks nice or is it going to like now cut out and it looks like whoa glens right well when you said that the posts would be buried deeper yeah in this picture they're really not buried deeper than in the other drawing that's why i wasn't sure what's going on so it's not like the other drawing had a lot more post exposed you lowered it right it looks about the same so it's hard to tell this it might scroll down on the other version of it it's hard to tell because if you look at at this picture with the guy who now is five and a half feet when he was six and a half feet tall i can't tell it's not how it still looks um really big and yet in the other drawings he was six and a half feet tall and here's only five and a half feet tall so it's very kind of confusing and we that of course is an existing sign so it might be helpful if we took an actual picture of the sign in front of the building so as so the existing so that is in there so how tall is that existing sign is that six not in place

  39. has been shrunken to make it look different so when i'm looking at this sign when it's installed will it actually only cover that amount or is it actually bigger and it's going to cover like this amount that's all i'll know if it looks too big sure it's gonna look more like a billboard than it's yeah will it will it look like this which matches and looks nice or is it going to like now cut out and it looks like whoa glens right well when you said that the posts would be buried deeper yeah in this picture they're really not buried deeper than in the other drawing that's why i wasn't sure what's going on so it's not like the other drawing had a lot more post exposed you lowered it right it looks about the same so it's hard to tell this it might scroll down on the other version of it it's hard to tell because if you look at at this picture with the guy who now is five and a half feet when he was six and a half feet tall i can't tell it's not how it still looks um really big and yet in the other drawings he was six and a half feet tall and here's only five and a half feet tall so it's very kind of confusing and we that of course is an existing sign so it might be helpful if we took an actual picture of the sign in front of the building so as so the existing so that is in there so how tall is that existing sign is that six not in place now no but the one that is there there's something there right because you can kind of see the hint of something oh there's a um lamp post there oh so how high is that lamp post i'd have to measure that would give us an idea i guess just not oh the lamppost is still there it's in front of it yeah but you but it looks like it's further back so that perspective at least it would be shorter than the lamp post so that gives you an idea of how high it would look if that's truly if it's taken straight on that's the hard part when you photoshop you don't have that perspective yeah or that scale they're trying to do the best they can to kind of give you that imagery um at best as so suggested by um would be to literally install it and take a picture and so it would be more authentic location and then for your review if you have that concern well because it is really far from the road the lamppost right and that's that's the one reason why i'm like six feet might be appropriate because it's so far from the road but the lamppost is taller than the overhang of the house in this angle and i doubt that the lamppost is taller than the house so the whole thing is sort of not skewed right but it's just very hard to interpret it's way back there yeah

  40. so as so the existing so that is in there so how tall is that existing sign is that six not in place now no but the one that is there there's something there right because you can kind of see the hint of something oh there's a um lamp post there oh so how high is that lamp post i'd have to measure that would give us an idea i guess just not oh the lamppost is still there it's in front of it yeah but you but it looks like it's further back so that perspective at least it would be shorter than the lamp post so that gives you an idea of how high it would look if that's truly if it's taken straight on that's the hard part when you photoshop you don't have that perspective yeah or that scale they're trying to do the best they can to kind of give you that imagery um at best as so suggested by um would be to literally install it and take a picture and so it would be more authentic location and then for your review if you have that concern well because it is really far from the road the lamppost right and that's that's the one reason why i'm like six feet might be appropriate because it's so far from the road but the lamppost is taller than the overhang of the house in this angle and i doubt that the lamppost is taller than the house so the whole thing is sort of not skewed right but it's just very hard to interpret it's way back there yeah i was going to say i guess if we made them go smaller though when i look at this bottom picture it is really far back yeah right it is far from the road it's so it's not like for more apartments yeah yeah you can build more apartments yeah well there's a lot of space on the north side um between bingham and lincoln you guys have a great property that's a good point to make is that the only people who will be viewing this are going to be the residents yeah it's not like this one's the one general public will not be seeing this yeah yeah this one's not no otherwise if it was to be honest in the more public area i'd want you to change it to the color and everything sure um but since you already have the sign and you're trying to repurpose it yeah i get it and it's not in truly the public area no yeah i think the whole skew is just off here because i don't think that light post is as tall as the roof line no it seems like it's a little bit angled that way but all right i'll stop asking questions on that one okay what's next And here we have positions A through F on your map. These are directional signage. Is that six? Position six?

  41. thing is sort of not skewed right but it's just very hard to interpret it's way back there yeah i was going to say i guess if we made them go smaller though when i look at this bottom picture it is really far back yeah right it is far from the road it's so it's not like for more apartments yeah yeah you can build more apartments yeah well there's a lot of space on the north side um between bingham and lincoln you guys have a great property that's a good point to make is that the only people who will be viewing this are going to be the residents yeah it's not like this one's the one general public will not be seeing this yeah yeah this one's not no otherwise if it was to be honest in the more public area i'd want you to change it to the color and everything sure um but since you already have the sign and you're trying to repurpose it yeah i get it and it's not in truly the public area no yeah i think the whole skew is just off here because i don't think that light post is as tall as the roof line no it seems like it's a little bit angled that way but all right i'll stop asking questions on that one okay what's next And here we have positions A through F on your map. These are directional signage. Is that six? Position six? Yeah, but they're located. They're the actual letters, not the numbers on your map. So six is position which number? So these signs are... A through E. They meant A through D on this one. So there'd be four A through D that have up arrows. And you match them to one, two. So it'd be A, B, C, and D. A through E, up. And then E and F are right arrows. I think they meant A through D are all up. Got it. These are meant to be internal community signs along Deep Run to direct back to the office as people get lost. And I see up arrow, up arrow, up arrow. Got it. Yeah, so those four would be the up, and then these are the ones that go that way. Thank you. And there's like... Oh, he's a little taller there. I'm telling you. Okay, so... He's got like quadruplets going on here. And finally, we added the existing sign, which is not changing, but you can compare the existing brick wall with the brick of the monument signs as being proposed. And the landscape looks really nice. Let's go. Let's go.

  42. Position six? Yeah, but they're located. They're the actual letters, not the numbers on your map. So six is position which number? So these signs are... A through E. They meant A through D on this one. So there'd be four A through D that have up arrows. And you match them to one, two. So it'd be A, B, C, and D. A through E, up. And then E and F are right arrows. I think they meant A through D are all up. Got it. These are meant to be internal community signs along Deep Run to direct back to the office as people get lost. And I see up arrow, up arrow, up arrow. Got it. Yeah, so those four would be the up, and then these are the ones that go that way. Thank you. And there's like... Oh, he's a little taller there. I'm telling you. Okay, so... He's got like quadruplets going on here. And finally, we added the existing sign, which is not changing, but you can compare the existing brick wall with the brick of the monument signs as being proposed. And the landscape looks really nice. Let's go. Let's go. really pretty and here are the landscape plans spring and summer for the two monument signs and then we have a fall winter plan and then just the lighting information which was included and those are the boxwoods in the back so those would stay green all year yeah there's the box woods and then they're um pure middle boxwoods that are on the sides flanking that just give it a little more um end cap yeah but i like the boxwoods that it's the rest are perennials they're going to die off at least you've got that green border so how many of the signs or which of the signs are subject to variances please this would require a zoning board of approval for um essentially secondary signage um for essentially all of them because of the the logo and the message and whatnot but of course you know the one sign would be permitted by right and then the additionals would

  43. really pretty and here are the landscape plans spring and summer for the two monument signs and then we have a fall winter plan and then just the lighting information which was included and those are the boxwoods in the back so those would stay green all year yeah there's the box woods and then they're um pure middle boxwoods that are on the sides flanking that just give it a little more um end cap yeah but i like the boxwoods that it's the rest are perennials they're going to die off at least you've got that green border so how many of the signs or which of the signs are subject to variances please this would require a zoning board of approval for um essentially secondary signage um for essentially all of them because of the the logo and the message and whatnot but of course you know the one sign would be permitted by right and then the additionals would trigger secondary signage so it's it would have to go uh to the zoning board for approval and the one sign that's on telegraph that's within the size requirements and yes For the single sign? Okay, so that's fine. I see. And then the other ones, and they're all replacing existing signs, are they not? Except for the internal ones that are directing to the office. The A through F. And then the one that would be up by the office is a relocation. The rest are existing signs we'd be replacing. And I think this is actually a good example of why we need the ZBA to look at things individually because this is a larger development. This does have a lot of hills and such that if we kept you strict to the ordinance, people would get lost. So it makes sense to have and I like that you went really simple and neutral with them. So it truly is just for wayfinder signs and I think it would be sad if they didn't approve that because people won't get lost as easily. So do all of them need ZBA approval or just the logoed ones? You have a logo on every one. You put that little leafy logo on every single one so

  44. but of course you know the one sign would be permitted by right and then the additionals would trigger secondary signage so it's it would have to go uh to the zoning board for approval and the one sign that's on telegraph that's within the size requirements and yes For the single sign? Okay, so that's fine. I see. And then the other ones, and they're all replacing existing signs, are they not? Except for the internal ones that are directing to the office. The A through F. And then the one that would be up by the office is a relocation. The rest are existing signs we'd be replacing. And I think this is actually a good example of why we need the ZBA to look at things individually because this is a larger development. This does have a lot of hills and such that if we kept you strict to the ordinance, people would get lost. So it makes sense to have and I like that you went really simple and neutral with them. So it truly is just for wayfinder signs and I think it would be sad if they didn't approve that because people won't get lost as easily. So do all of them need ZBA approval or just the logoed ones? You have a logo on every one. You put that little leafy logo on every single one so they all would. But I don't I mean again I can't guarantee but I would assume they would see value in finding ways to the offices and such. I think it's subtle and it kind of ties the signs together is that that's your complex. I like the logo. I think your logo is smaller than the one that was supposed to be on the other building too so that helps. That's what I mean. We're not against logos. We're not against them. It's just that you put it in a nice in a nice pack. package so it's easier to approve does anyone have any questions or anybody ready to make a motion one quick question I'm just looking at the so on Bingham Road one side is the apartment complex and across from that is that the backyard of the other no that's the front yard of the other houses it is the the first house on the across from us on Bingham has quite a bit of landscaping in the front yard and the only one they're really going to see is F I guess is it you know I'm guessing perhaps is F the house across Bingham will see the sign the correctional arrow perhaps this one right

  45. leafy logo on every single one so they all would. But I don't I mean again I can't guarantee but I would assume they would see value in finding ways to the offices and such. I think it's subtle and it kind of ties the signs together is that that's your complex. I like the logo. I think your logo is smaller than the one that was supposed to be on the other building too so that helps. That's what I mean. We're not against logos. We're not against them. It's just that you put it in a nice in a nice pack. package so it's easier to approve does anyone have any questions or anybody ready to make a motion one quick question I'm just looking at the so on Bingham Road one side is the apartment complex and across from that is that the backyard of the other no that's the front yard of the other houses it is the the first house on the across from us on Bingham has quite a bit of landscaping in the front yard and the only one they're really going to see is F I guess is it you know I'm guessing perhaps is F the house across Bingham will see the sign the correctional arrow perhaps this one right here yes correct yep and that single side right gets on a post single-sided yes if that one is is an example that those ones will actually be internal to the community because that oh no that is leaving the community off of um deep run to Bingham right so they come to Bingham turn right yes and so I'm just noticing that there's a you know the houses here and what signs they might see this is the only one they'll see of the internal sign yeah only new one that that wouldn't be a replacement that they'd see questions if not do we have a motion um i guess i'm i'm willing to propose a motion to to approve the sign plan as as proposed and forward to the zba for variance iterations okay so we have a motion by clerk brooke support support by trustee murray all in favor aye that does pass thank you for all your hard work on this i appreciate it you were the front person so that's that even though someone else did some behind the scenes work you had to come do it all by yourself

  46. perhaps is F the house across Bingham will see the sign the correctional arrow perhaps this one right here yes correct yep and that single side right gets on a post single-sided yes if that one is is an example that those ones will actually be internal to the community because that oh no that is leaving the community off of um deep run to Bingham right so they come to Bingham turn right yes and so I'm just noticing that there's a you know the houses here and what signs they might see this is the only one they'll see of the internal sign yeah only new one that that wouldn't be a replacement that they'd see questions if not do we have a motion um i guess i'm i'm willing to propose a motion to to approve the sign plan as as proposed and forward to the zba for variance iterations okay so we have a motion by clerk brooke support support by trustee murray all in favor aye that does pass thank you for all your hard work on this i appreciate it you were the front person so that's that even though someone else did some behind the scenes work you had to come do it all by yourself if you have to take the brunt of us you get the approvals at the end too sign the gold star later great next we have carl's and we have one nine seven six south telegraph road it's located in the b3 zone district this is for carl's golf land as mentioned we have a proposal to provide a roof cover over the existing tees located in this area here on the property and it will be tied into the main building for carl's golf land as well it's 13 feet and a half inches essentially it will be a standing seam metal roof uh existing burgundy color to match the existing burgundy out at the site the fascia uh so the building will also be burgundy and then the horizontal sides of the roof structure will be tan siding to match the existing on the property as well best to see in pictures i think these are the

  47. even though someone else did some behind the scenes work you had to come do it all by yourself if you have to take the brunt of us you get the approvals at the end too sign the gold star later great next we have carl's and we have one nine seven six south telegraph road it's located in the b3 zone district this is for carl's golf land as mentioned we have a proposal to provide a roof cover over the existing tees located in this area here on the property and it will be tied into the main building for carl's golf land as well it's 13 feet and a half inches essentially it will be a standing seam metal roof uh existing burgundy color to match the existing burgundy out at the site the fascia uh so the building will also be burgundy and then the horizontal sides of the roof structure will be tan siding to match the existing on the property as well best to see in pictures i think these are the this is the area that is being proposed to be covered and again just another shot you can see the existing burgundy roof color the tan siding is there as well there will be several doors placed in the over roof covering um in the back as well as um gutters being installed to catch the rain are those the existing covered ones yes they're which are north of those i've got it those are behind the building no no those are right on telegraph yeah the ones we're proposing is behind all the buildings okay so um charlie bowls uh representative for the application uh can answer any further questions and as can i so those existing ones aren't this spot right here right behind the building that aren't visible from telegraph the existing one isn't this the existing ones and we're talking

  48. siding to match the existing on the property as well best to see in pictures i think these are the this is the area that is being proposed to be covered and again just another shot you can see the existing burgundy roof color the tan siding is there as well there will be several doors placed in the over roof covering um in the back as well as um gutters being installed to catch the rain are those the existing covered ones yes they're which are north of those i've got it those are behind the building no no those are right on telegraph yeah the ones we're proposing is behind all the buildings okay so um charlie bowls uh representative for the application uh can answer any further questions and as can i so those existing ones aren't this spot right here right behind the building that aren't visible from telegraph the existing one isn't this the existing ones and we're talking talking about putting them here? Yeah, we're putting them there, yeah. Okay, yeah. There is some that's behind the building, but the majority of it going towards the top of the page. The strip center to the left. There you go, right there. That's it, okay. So this is it, okay. So you're just continuing that same exact building down here. On the other side, yes. With that little red line there, that's these right here. That's the red roof, yep. Got it. So basically you're kind of making some symmetry now to what you have on the one you'll have on the left. Okay. Is there any screening on the existing one right now? And if so, will you be matching it on the new? It's got a fence. You can't even see it from Telegraph. It's behind the LA Fitness in the new warehouse and there's a stocky fence. But so this area won't be seen at all from? Very little between the two buildings. But knowing the screening rules and such, is any of this going to be seen? Well, as far as screening rules, it's... Like when you're putting up structure. You know how, like, especially one of our members likes you to soften it. It can't be a big break. It's got a wood privacy fence there now. So it's going to be behind that. But with no either or anything softening it. No. Is there an elevation from the street?

  49. talking about putting them here? Yeah, we're putting them there, yeah. Okay, yeah. There is some that's behind the building, but the majority of it going towards the top of the page. The strip center to the left. There you go, right there. That's it, okay. So this is it, okay. So you're just continuing that same exact building down here. On the other side, yes. With that little red line there, that's these right here. That's the red roof, yep. Got it. So basically you're kind of making some symmetry now to what you have on the one you'll have on the left. Okay. Is there any screening on the existing one right now? And if so, will you be matching it on the new? It's got a fence. You can't even see it from Telegraph. It's behind the LA Fitness in the new warehouse and there's a stocky fence. But so this area won't be seen at all from? Very little between the two buildings. But knowing the screening rules and such, is any of this going to be seen? Well, as far as screening rules, it's... Like when you're putting up structure. You know how, like, especially one of our members likes you to soften it. It can't be a big break. It's got a wood privacy fence there now. So it's going to be behind that. But with no either or anything softening it. No. Is there an elevation from the street? Yeah, because there's not... It's got my hand. No. Everyone's catching them in. No. No. No. No. No. We'll be right back. Keep going. Right there, right there. I thought there was a photo. There we go, right there. See that? To the right, you see the brown fence. And there's trees and landscaping. There's a putting green and a chipping facility there. It's all landscaped. I don't see any of that. I don't see any of that in that picture. I don't see any of that in any of these pictures. That's why I was asking. Normally, like, whenever somebody proposes stuff, they either show a picture from the street so we can verify it. You can't see it from the street. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah, so they can verify it for us. So this is where they're talking. Some evergreens here. Just right here. So what's the view from the street? And this is the fence. I think that, I think, just to be sure.

  50. So it's going to be behind that. But with no either or anything softening it. No. Is there an elevation from the street? Yeah, because there's not... It's got my hand. No. Everyone's catching them in. No. No. No. No. No. We'll be right back. Keep going. Right there, right there. I thought there was a photo. There we go, right there. See that? To the right, you see the brown fence. And there's trees and landscaping. There's a putting green and a chipping facility there. It's all landscaped. I don't see any of that. I don't see any of that in that picture. I don't see any of that in any of these pictures. That's why I was asking. Normally, like, whenever somebody proposes stuff, they either show a picture from the street so we can verify it. You can't see it from the street. Well, that's what I mean. Yeah, so they can verify it for us. So this is where they're talking. Some evergreens here. Just right here. So what's the view from the street? And this is the fence. I think that, I think, just to be sure. Street view isn't going to change. It's still going to be fenced? Perfect. We're not doing anything. It's just, yeah. The whole landscape changed. We're leaving all the putting green, chipping facilities. If you stood on Telegraph and you looked at it, there's really going to be no change. You can't see LA Fitness blocks it. So here's Telegraph right here. And you're picking the same, we also don't have the, the, what you're putting in there because you're absolutely matching it to the existing. All those things still exist. You can buy the same stuff. Yep. Okay. Well, this one doesn't have stone on the bottom. That's the only difference. So here's Telegraph. So here's Telegraph. So here's Telegraph. So here's Telegraph. as siding goes all the way down and there is just this beige but it's pages yeah it's big yeah it's all magic yeah we can yeah yes this is a really good elevation around Ariel because you can see the word telegraph is where we to showing and then you have buildings you have fence line you have evergreens and then you see that okay at a strip the pup part area yeah I mean I just covered so we can use it more too that's that's the purpose yes just to the south is there a wall there too but before the parking lot yes that's a wood wood fence bench and then those must be apartment buildings there yes perfect

  51. I think that, I think, just to be sure. Street view isn't going to change. It's still going to be fenced? Perfect. We're not doing anything. It's just, yeah. The whole landscape changed. We're leaving all the putting green, chipping facilities. If you stood on Telegraph and you looked at it, there's really going to be no change. You can't see LA Fitness blocks it. So here's Telegraph right here. And you're picking the same, we also don't have the, the, what you're putting in there because you're absolutely matching it to the existing. All those things still exist. You can buy the same stuff. Yep. Okay. Well, this one doesn't have stone on the bottom. That's the only difference. So here's Telegraph. So here's Telegraph. So here's Telegraph. So here's Telegraph. as siding goes all the way down and there is just this beige but it's pages yeah it's big yeah it's all magic yeah we can yeah yes this is a really good elevation around Ariel because you can see the word telegraph is where we to showing and then you have buildings you have fence line you have evergreens and then you see that okay at a strip the pup part area yeah I mean I just covered so we can use it more too that's that's the purpose yes just to the south is there a wall there too but before the parking lot yes that's a wood wood fence bench and then those must be apartment buildings there yes perfect so the pictures of you're you already know where I was going north part by the parking lot is that right the ones that exist yes if you can park in front of closest to like the closest to the strip strip mall yep those are already in existence okay and then our area that the people who live there see they won't just see the buildings or this they'll see you said there's greenery blocking their view okay great what about hours and lighting same as is now yeah lightings and stay the same because there's poles there they'll just be mounted on the front of this awning instead of the big poles behind it it's just to let people use it when it's raining or like on a day like today like all miserable you want to golf So we're not like extending hours. Hours aren't changing, yeah, it's still hours are all staying the same. I used to golf on a little par 3 course. I used to be there a long time ago. A big slide? It was, yeah. Do you remember the big slide? I do not remember the big slide. The big slide where LA Fitness is. Big slide. Oh, I don't remember the big slide. Oh, wow. Big slide in a par 3. Movie theater, the par 3. I would have hung out on a big slide. I do not remember the big slide. That's hilarious.

  52. so the pictures of you're you already know where I was going north part by the parking lot is that right the ones that exist yes if you can park in front of closest to like the closest to the strip strip mall yep those are already in existence okay and then our area that the people who live there see they won't just see the buildings or this they'll see you said there's greenery blocking their view okay great what about hours and lighting same as is now yeah lightings and stay the same because there's poles there they'll just be mounted on the front of this awning instead of the big poles behind it it's just to let people use it when it's raining or like on a day like today like all miserable you want to golf So we're not like extending hours. Hours aren't changing, yeah, it's still hours are all staying the same. I used to golf on a little par 3 course. I used to be there a long time ago. A big slide? It was, yeah. Do you remember the big slide? I do not remember the big slide. The big slide where LA Fitness is. Big slide. Oh, I don't remember the big slide. Oh, wow. Big slide in a par 3. Movie theater, the par 3. I would have hung out on a big slide. I do not remember the big slide. That's hilarious. Maybe that was gone by the time I was golfing there. What did they come out saying? It's been gone a long time. Yeah. So this covering would be similar to like, I'm not a golfer, but I did tap golf. And so they had like the covering. If you step too far, you fall into the netting. These are on the ground, yes. Right, right. This was stacked up, and so that's why they had the netting. But, you know, there was the covering just enough so that you could golf. It simulates a carport, basically, is what it looks like. Heated to compete with Topgolf. Is that, will they be heated? No. In case you could answer that. The food and booze, but we still did the golf bar. Okay. It's probably helped them. Because people go and do it for fun, and then they get hooked on it, and then they got to go to Carl's Golf Land. There you go. You know, really learn the craft. Yeah, well, Carl's is closer, too, for us township people. So what, Carl's is better. Does this go to Planning Commission next, or ZBA, or? No. No. This is the only stop? Mm-hmm. What? That's right. That's right. I can't leave yet. I don't have anything. No signs? No signs. Signage, no signage. Signs you've noticed are the thing. We've had to dial it back in like you could believe lately.

  53. That's hilarious. Maybe that was gone by the time I was golfing there. What did they come out saying? It's been gone a long time. Yeah. So this covering would be similar to like, I'm not a golfer, but I did tap golf. And so they had like the covering. If you step too far, you fall into the netting. These are on the ground, yes. Right, right. This was stacked up, and so that's why they had the netting. But, you know, there was the covering just enough so that you could golf. It simulates a carport, basically, is what it looks like. Heated to compete with Topgolf. Is that, will they be heated? No. In case you could answer that. The food and booze, but we still did the golf bar. Okay. It's probably helped them. Because people go and do it for fun, and then they get hooked on it, and then they got to go to Carl's Golf Land. There you go. You know, really learn the craft. Yeah, well, Carl's is closer, too, for us township people. So what, Carl's is better. Does this go to Planning Commission next, or ZBA, or? No. No. This is the only stop? Mm-hmm. What? That's right. That's right. I can't leave yet. I don't have anything. No signs? No signs. Signage, no signage. Signs you've noticed are the thing. We've had to dial it back in like you could believe lately. I can imagine. Well, I don't know. There's nothing, you know, no smoking gun, no controversy. Isn't that funny? We're looking, we're like, this can't be possibly this easy. Nobody comes to us with anything this easy. Well, you guys have operated in the township long enough, you know. 65 years. You're another unicorn that we love to see come by. I'll make a motion to approve as presented. Motion by Clerk Brooke? I will support. Support by Trustee Murray. All in favor? Aye. That does pass. Thank you, guys. It's a great idea. Thank you for being here, too. I'm sure they'll be busy all the time. We hope so. Yep. Great. Bye-bye. Next, do we have any recent DRBs to discuss? We have done. All right. Then our next meeting will be on Wednesday, November 2nd, and I look for your favorite- I move we adjourn. Motion to adjourn by Clerk Brooke? I support that. Support by Trustee Murray. All in favor? Aye. All opposed? That does pass. That was a long one. Step 3 on to our region? I have a good tiempo. It was toasted blue light on your mind and it seven times. That might cause, what's the most important when you go away aboard? No. Thank you.