the-compact
Board Of Trustees Tuesday, August 11, 2026 · 131 min

Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees Meeting on August 10, 2026

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. The Township Board of Trustees meeting for Monday, August the 10th, which you'll stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Welcome everyone. We'll open up for public comment. If you're here to make a comment on any issue on the agenda or the Township, you're welcome to come up to the microphone. And we ask you to keep it to three minutes. If you could introduce yourself and your address, we'd appreciate it as well. Not seeing anyone for public comment. I'll close public comment and move to item two, consider consent agenda. Can I have a motion to approve the consent agenda? Motion to approve. Support. Support. I would like to remove two items. Item A and D. Which ones, Mark? Item A and D. A and B, okay. A and D is in Dodge. Oh, okay. A and D. Okay. Got it. Okay. So can I have a motion to approve the minutes, which are left with B and C? A motion to approve the consent agenda for B and C. Just a second. Just a second. Sorry. I'm sorry. Which two are off? A and D. A and D. Yep. A and D. Okay. Right. So I would like to make a motion that we approve the consent agenda items B and C. Thank you. Motion by Chris. Is there support? Support. Support from Bell. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. any opposed okay that passes seven to nothing and so mark we'll move those to the end after item number four okay thank you item number three public hearing site plan a special land use request for the Birmingham Country Club at 1750 Saxon Drive Tom welcome good evening board for you today is the Birmingham Country Club located at 1750 Saxon Drive this property is located in our R3 single-family district and is surrounded by residential properties because country clubs because the country club is in a non single-family property in a residential district is considered to be a special land use any modifications would require review and approval by the

  2. I'm sorry. Which two are off? A and D. A and D. Yep. A and D. Okay. Right. So I would like to make a motion that we approve the consent agenda items B and C. Thank you. Motion by Chris. Is there support? Support. Support from Bell. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. any opposed okay that passes seven to nothing and so mark we'll move those to the end after item number four okay thank you item number three public hearing site plan a special land use request for the Birmingham Country Club at 1750 Saxon Drive Tom welcome good evening board for you today is the Birmingham Country Club located at 1750 Saxon Drive this property is located in our R3 single-family district and is surrounded by residential properties because country clubs because the country club is in a non single-family property in a residential district is considered to be a special land use any modifications would require review and approval by the design review board Planning Commission and the Board of Trustees for this project site plan and special land use proposal concerns a kitchen and snack bar addition along with the renovation of their outdoor terrace the proposed improvements are located within the interior of the property and are several hundred yards away from the nearest residential home concerning the kitchen addition it's going to be a 1,000 square foot modernized kitchen that is proposed on the southerly portion of the clubhouse where the loading dock is currently located and the objective of this modern kitchen is to better accommodate club operations secondly the snack bar will be 312 square feet that will be located here and it is proposing the northern portion of the clubhouse to provide additional space for patrons and then for this area we are looking at a proposed terrace renovation to better accommodate events during peak hours and to me and then there will be some rearrangements of the golf cart drives

  3. be a special land use any modifications would require review and approval by the design review board Planning Commission and the Board of Trustees for this project site plan and special land use proposal concerns a kitchen and snack bar addition along with the renovation of their outdoor terrace the proposed improvements are located within the interior of the property and are several hundred yards away from the nearest residential home concerning the kitchen addition it's going to be a 1,000 square foot modernized kitchen that is proposed on the southerly portion of the clubhouse where the loading dock is currently located and the objective of this modern kitchen is to better accommodate club operations secondly the snack bar will be 312 square feet that will be located here and it is proposing the northern portion of the clubhouse to provide additional space for patrons and then for this area we are looking at a proposed terrace renovation to better accommodate events during peak hours and to me and then there will be some rearrangements of the golf cart drives when it comes to these events that are occurring for example this path here when there's a large event they're going to use decorative pavements to expand where the guests could be and then north of this structure here is going to be an alternate pathway for golf carts that will they'll be able to access it during such events we have some close-ups of the proposed kitchen area and the snack bar addition as well as a partial floor plan. Then when it comes to the terrace renovation, there will be some existing walls that will be replaced with decorative metal fencing that will be under four feet tall, 3.3 feet to be exact. And then there will be some brick piers. And because they're also incorporated on a patio and they're lower than four feet high, there are no variances associated with this request. Four existing trees will be removed and replaced.

  4. events during peak hours and to me and then there will be some rearrangements of the golf cart drives when it comes to these events that are occurring for example this path here when there's a large event they're going to use decorative pavements to expand where the guests could be and then north of this structure here is going to be an alternate pathway for golf carts that will they'll be able to access it during such events we have some close-ups of the proposed kitchen area and the snack bar addition as well as a partial floor plan. Then when it comes to the terrace renovation, there will be some existing walls that will be replaced with decorative metal fencing that will be under four feet tall, 3.3 feet to be exact. And then there will be some brick piers. And because they're also incorporated on a patio and they're lower than four feet high, there are no variances associated with this request. Four existing trees will be removed and replaced. A total of 69 dbh replacement inches is required. And the applicant is proposing 72 caliber inches of replacement trees. Here we have some site photos of what the current site looks like. And this is a rendering of the terrace edition. This proposal was reviewed by township departments, such as engineering, fire, police, and DPW, and all have recommended approval following the review of the site plans. Dual landscape architecture also reviewed the landscape plan and concluded that it meets the intent of the zoning ordinance. And when it comes to review of the township's boards and commissions, on July 15th, the design review board recommended approval and forwarded it to the planning commission. On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation and forwarded it to the board of trustees. On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation and forwarded it to the planning commission. On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation Thank you. And here is the recommendation for the board tonight. In summary, I'll note that the kitchen and stack bar additions provide additional indoor space, along with improvements to the terrace, and will help the country club meet current demands, such as mobile ordering.

  5. Four existing trees will be removed and replaced. A total of 69 dbh replacement inches is required. And the applicant is proposing 72 caliber inches of replacement trees. Here we have some site photos of what the current site looks like. And this is a rendering of the terrace edition. This proposal was reviewed by township departments, such as engineering, fire, police, and DPW, and all have recommended approval following the review of the site plans. Dual landscape architecture also reviewed the landscape plan and concluded that it meets the intent of the zoning ordinance. And when it comes to review of the township's boards and commissions, on July 15th, the design review board recommended approval and forwarded it to the planning commission. On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation and forwarded it to the board of trustees. On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation and forwarded it to the planning commission. On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation On July 20th, the planning commission gave a positive recommendation Thank you. And here is the recommendation for the board tonight. In summary, I'll note that the kitchen and stack bar additions provide additional indoor space, along with improvements to the terrace, and will help the country club meet current demands, such as mobile ordering. Existing kitchen and ventilation systems are approximately 30 years old and are due for modernization. The improvements do not increase the capacity for events. The clubhouse is already in active space. And lastly, the additions are not expected to significantly increase the overall traffic, and the existing circulation and parking will continue to serve the club. With that, I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Tom. Any questions? No questions. Just a comment similar to the one I had at the Planning Commission. I think they did a beautiful job in updating the kitchen and the outdoor area is beautiful, and it does not impact the neighbors at all. So I think it's a great project and certainly enhances the club. I agree. I would like to make a motion that we approve. Support. Motion by... Oh, do we have to open up the public hearing? Okay. Sorry. So I'll open up for a public hearing. And if you're here to comment on the site plan by the Birmingham Country Club, you're welcome to come up to the microphone on my right, your left, and ask you to keep it to three minutes and introduce yourself. Thank you.

  6. along with improvements to the terrace, and will help the country club meet current demands, such as mobile ordering. Existing kitchen and ventilation systems are approximately 30 years old and are due for modernization. The improvements do not increase the capacity for events. The clubhouse is already in active space. And lastly, the additions are not expected to significantly increase the overall traffic, and the existing circulation and parking will continue to serve the club. With that, I'm happy to answer any questions. Thank you, Tom. Any questions? No questions. Just a comment similar to the one I had at the Planning Commission. I think they did a beautiful job in updating the kitchen and the outdoor area is beautiful, and it does not impact the neighbors at all. So I think it's a great project and certainly enhances the club. I agree. I would like to make a motion that we approve. Support. Motion by... Oh, do we have to open up the public hearing? Okay. Sorry. So I'll open up for a public hearing. And if you're here to comment on the site plan by the Birmingham Country Club, you're welcome to come up to the microphone on my right, your left, and ask you to keep it to three minutes and introduce yourself. Thank you. Good evening. My name is Anne North. I am the resident in the Bloomfield Township at 1625 North Lawn Boulevard. I'm directly next to the maintenance shed of the Country Club. I think you all have done a beautiful job, and I've spent 30 years in food and beverage. I certainly applaud this situation. I only have one issue, and it's really easily solved if the Country Club's willing to work with me and listen and be neighborly. It's mainly involved in the sound, and I'll tell you why. In July, I was sitting on my front porch with my son. He said, Mom, what's that noise? I said, well, it sounds like it's a high school. I said, no, it's the Country Club. The way the sound travels, it travels straight across as well as down and up the ravine that I sit at the top of, and it magnifies.

  7. Good evening. My name is Anne North. I am the resident in the Bloomfield Township at 1625 North Lawn Boulevard. I'm directly next to the maintenance shed of the Country Club. I think you all have done a beautiful job, and I've spent 30 years in food and beverage. I certainly applaud this situation. I only have one issue, and it's really easily solved if the Country Club's willing to work with me and listen and be neighborly. It's mainly involved in the sound, and I'll tell you why. In July, I was sitting on my front porch with my son. He said, Mom, what's that noise? I said, well, it sounds like it's a high school. I said, no, it's the Country Club. The way the sound travels, it travels straight across as well as down and up the ravine that I sit at the top of, and it magnifies. And so I took a little walk down the street last week and listened to the noise at various levels of people down the street. Across the street is all Birmingham. I'm one of two. residences on the other side and so the existing noise that comes across from swim meets and golf tournaments and lovely events the sound is audible i can hear every single word that's sung not a problem i love having that but at the same time it doesn't sit in an isolated situation we have generators and possible pickleball courts and the lighting is also an issue so my my request that the town that the birmingham country club would do would be to come and sit with me come in my house if you want look at the lights that come across that shine into my bedroom and into my master living room area as well as direct the some of the sound back at the country club so it all doesn't come across to me it's not really a big issue but the existing noise burden burden is

  8. The way the sound travels, it travels straight across as well as down and up the ravine that I sit at the top of, and it magnifies. And so I took a little walk down the street last week and listened to the noise at various levels of people down the street. Across the street is all Birmingham. I'm one of two. residences on the other side and so the existing noise that comes across from swim meets and golf tournaments and lovely events the sound is audible i can hear every single word that's sung not a problem i love having that but at the same time it doesn't sit in an isolated situation we have generators and possible pickleball courts and the lighting is also an issue so my my request that the town that the birmingham country club would do would be to come and sit with me come in my house if you want look at the lights that come across that shine into my bedroom and into my master living room area as well as direct the some of the sound back at the country club so it all doesn't come across to me it's not really a big issue but the existing noise burden burden is quite high anyway when you have air compressors and vehicles starting up on sunday at 608 in the morning it's just um these things don't sit in isolation to each other and i'm feeling a little bit like a punching bag it's not a problem i chose to purchase a house right next to the maintenance shed but during that time There's been a complete landscape renovation for the maintenance shed and the lights do shine up into my house. And so it's just a lot of things that I'd love to meet with the country club on in addition to the generator, which doesn't seem to be a problem. But after the situation is put up, I'm a little bit of a victim of not being able to solve a problem. So if we could talk about it in advance, I'm all in. Okay. I've tried to stay within three minutes. Great. Thank you, Ann. My pleasure. Thank you. I don't see anybody else for public hearing, so I'll close the public hearing and turn it back to the board for any comments or...

  9. it all doesn't come across to me it's not really a big issue but the existing noise burden burden is quite high anyway when you have air compressors and vehicles starting up on sunday at 608 in the morning it's just um these things don't sit in isolation to each other and i'm feeling a little bit like a punching bag it's not a problem i chose to purchase a house right next to the maintenance shed but during that time There's been a complete landscape renovation for the maintenance shed and the lights do shine up into my house. And so it's just a lot of things that I'd love to meet with the country club on in addition to the generator, which doesn't seem to be a problem. But after the situation is put up, I'm a little bit of a victim of not being able to solve a problem. So if we could talk about it in advance, I'm all in. Okay. I've tried to stay within three minutes. Great. Thank you, Ann. My pleasure. Thank you. I don't see anybody else for public hearing, so I'll close the public hearing and turn it back to the board for any comments or... Well, I have a comment or a question. I know there was discussion about increasing the number of pickleball courts, and then there was discussion of fencing and the sound. And the people on the other side of Saxon hear it quite intensely. And have we ever resolved that? Is that still pending? It's like... It's still pending. The planning division received an email from Tim Gardella of the country club, and they are working on improving their sound plan when it comes to the pickleball courts. So, you know, I feel for the resident, you know, things have changed a lot, and it's a beautiful country club. I don't object to that at all. But... it But when noises and lights and then an increase in the pickleball, I think we need to look at the whole picture and do something for the residents. Well, the only thing that certainly can be corrected immediately would be the lights because lights is something that, and I know Andrea is already working on that, I can see, because lights, it cannot go over and interfere with the residential property.

  10. back to the board for any comments or... Well, I have a comment or a question. I know there was discussion about increasing the number of pickleball courts, and then there was discussion of fencing and the sound. And the people on the other side of Saxon hear it quite intensely. And have we ever resolved that? Is that still pending? It's like... It's still pending. The planning division received an email from Tim Gardella of the country club, and they are working on improving their sound plan when it comes to the pickleball courts. So, you know, I feel for the resident, you know, things have changed a lot, and it's a beautiful country club. I don't object to that at all. But... it But when noises and lights and then an increase in the pickleball, I think we need to look at the whole picture and do something for the residents. Well, the only thing that certainly can be corrected immediately would be the lights because lights is something that, and I know Andrea is already working on that, I can see, because lights, it cannot go over and interfere with the residential property. So that, I'm sure, can be corrected. As far as pickleball, that's an ongoing process, and they're working on that. So I think that's premature. So wait until we see the results because they are putting a lot of money into that. And I know we have some representatives from Birmingham Country Club. If you'd like to come up and make any comment, you're welcome. Well, from what Ann just said, I mean, she's already got issues, and, no, please come up. You know, she's explained her issues currently, and then before we approve a plan to expand greater use and more facilities, it sort of seems like they should maybe be considered more together than, like, the pickleballs here and the lighting and the kitchen. Well, actually, we're just talking about the change in the kitchen. Right. And it's really set far away from where Mrs. North is. Right. But those other issues, maybe you want to... I can certainly give... I'll give you an update on that. You've already had the update. Introduce yourself, please. I'm Tim McCafferty. I'm on the Facilities Committee of Birmingham Country Club. Thank you, Tim. Yeah, no problem. So right now, we are working on the Pickleball program.

  11. because lights, it cannot go over and interfere with the residential property. So that, I'm sure, can be corrected. As far as pickleball, that's an ongoing process, and they're working on that. So I think that's premature. So wait until we see the results because they are putting a lot of money into that. And I know we have some representatives from Birmingham Country Club. If you'd like to come up and make any comment, you're welcome. Well, from what Ann just said, I mean, she's already got issues, and, no, please come up. You know, she's explained her issues currently, and then before we approve a plan to expand greater use and more facilities, it sort of seems like they should maybe be considered more together than, like, the pickleballs here and the lighting and the kitchen. Well, actually, we're just talking about the change in the kitchen. Right. And it's really set far away from where Mrs. North is. Right. But those other issues, maybe you want to... I can certainly give... I'll give you an update on that. You've already had the update. Introduce yourself, please. I'm Tim McCafferty. I'm on the Facilities Committee of Birmingham Country Club. Thank you, Tim. Yeah, no problem. So right now, we are working on the Pickleball program. We're working with a vendor that does specialty walls for sound, because Pickleball has been an issue with sound. And so these guys have developed these sound walls that really cut the levels that we had shown before. I want to say it's like another 20 or 30%. And the numbers that we had presented before were already below the sound threshold. I will say that this person was talking about her residence on North Lawn. The Pickleball is planned all the way over on Saxon, so it's the exact opposite end of the grounds. So I don't know that the two really would play together there, but anyhow. Okay. Well, thank you. Yeah, no problem. Sure, Chris. Since I have you. So she brought up a couple points that, while we're not talking about it today, are you willing to work with her and find ways to mitigate some of those improvements that the maintenance shed is causing on their property, including light, if there's any ways you guys can do sound? So we've been doing that continuously through the whole process. The maintenance shed work was done probably six years ago, and probably the only thing that occurred in the last year is DTE. Basically, it could be you that project for the building in Manhattan and the development. See you next time. Let's go to this building into a building. Well, thank you. Please do not be here.

  12. So right now, we are working on the Pickleball program. We're working with a vendor that does specialty walls for sound, because Pickleball has been an issue with sound. And so these guys have developed these sound walls that really cut the levels that we had shown before. I want to say it's like another 20 or 30%. And the numbers that we had presented before were already below the sound threshold. I will say that this person was talking about her residence on North Lawn. The Pickleball is planned all the way over on Saxon, so it's the exact opposite end of the grounds. So I don't know that the two really would play together there, but anyhow. Okay. Well, thank you. Yeah, no problem. Sure, Chris. Since I have you. So she brought up a couple points that, while we're not talking about it today, are you willing to work with her and find ways to mitigate some of those improvements that the maintenance shed is causing on their property, including light, if there's any ways you guys can do sound? So we've been doing that continuously through the whole process. The maintenance shed work was done probably six years ago, and probably the only thing that occurred in the last year is DTE. Basically, it could be you that project for the building in Manhattan and the development. See you next time. Let's go to this building into a building. Well, thank you. Please do not be here. came through a long north lawn and took down all the trees that were along that edge of the property i guess for maintenance for their high voltage lines so we came back in after them and have replanted most of that of that hill that is so north line's kind of up and the maintenance sheds are all down so the that those plantings were probably shielding a lot of that light we've since like i said have gone back in with new plannings but they're going to take a little bit to grow to shield that light again okay so will you be able to meet with the resident and try to find ways to mitigate it in the interim because i don't want to wait three she's always welcome to come over to the club and meet with our manager and will you be able to go over and see her issues on her property so that we can try to mitigate that i'm sure tim would do that perfect because it seems like in general the township wants downward light so downward light shouldn't really go across north lawn to her property um and the same thing with the sound if you're going to mitigate some of the sound with pickleball possibly there's something that could go up by the maintenance building um to help the residents yeah i really don't know how that would be i i'm not saying that

  13. came through a long north lawn and took down all the trees that were along that edge of the property i guess for maintenance for their high voltage lines so we came back in after them and have replanted most of that of that hill that is so north line's kind of up and the maintenance sheds are all down so the that those plantings were probably shielding a lot of that light we've since like i said have gone back in with new plannings but they're going to take a little bit to grow to shield that light again okay so will you be able to meet with the resident and try to find ways to mitigate it in the interim because i don't want to wait three she's always welcome to come over to the club and meet with our manager and will you be able to go over and see her issues on her property so that we can try to mitigate that i'm sure tim would do that perfect because it seems like in general the township wants downward light so downward light shouldn't really go across north lawn to her property um and the same thing with the sound if you're going to mitigate some of the sound with pickleball possibly there's something that could go up by the maintenance building um to help the residents yeah i really don't know how that would be i i'm not saying that we wouldn't do something but we really have already done something we had a full wall of plantings there it was all green and dte took it all down so we've replanted it just takes time for that stuff to grow but to grow back that's the best sound barrier and light barrier you can get well they could take years this is my concern well we certainly understand that I can't make them grow faster we we could maybe put in a few more but we can take a look at that perfect I think there was one other question which was sound coming from the patio across the course if you guys looked at that or is there is that a that's never been an issue for us I'm not aware of any particular complaint until I heard that just now and it's not been an issue that I'm aware of well you're aware of it now that's kind of where we're at I understand okay good thank you anything up Sean can you put the the aerial view I wanted to know where exactly the maintenance sheds were located that's a good question the maintenance

  14. building um to help the residents yeah i really don't know how that would be i i'm not saying that we wouldn't do something but we really have already done something we had a full wall of plantings there it was all green and dte took it all down so we've replanted it just takes time for that stuff to grow but to grow back that's the best sound barrier and light barrier you can get well they could take years this is my concern well we certainly understand that I can't make them grow faster we we could maybe put in a few more but we can take a look at that perfect I think there was one other question which was sound coming from the patio across the course if you guys looked at that or is there is that a that's never been an issue for us I'm not aware of any particular complaint until I heard that just now and it's not been an issue that I'm aware of well you're aware of it now that's kind of where we're at I understand okay good thank you anything up Sean can you put the the aerial view I wanted to know where exactly the maintenance sheds were located that's a good question the maintenance shack is back towards North Lawn correct you come in off the North Lawn to get to your maintenance shack yes right yep that's about how many feet would you say it is off or yards off a hundred yards off of North Lawn probably not even it's pretty tight to North Lawn right it's kind of tucked right up against it remember at that point it's really tough to pick it up on that on that aerial But North Lawn is above the maintenance building, so you're driving down a hill to get down to the maintenance area. And then there's a few homes that are just past it, and they're all up above what is the maintenance area. So the sound probably does come up. And they're, you know, just like similar to what you've probably seen down Maple for Oakland Hills now that they've built their buildings all out along Maple. They're all steel and concrete buildings. So, but like good neighbors who said you're going to try to work with her to try to figure out a way to mitigate some of those issues. Sure. Which is great. What she's looking for and what we're looking for. Got it. Okay. So I would like to make a motion that we approve what's in the packet.

  15. know where exactly the maintenance sheds were located that's a good question the maintenance shack is back towards North Lawn correct you come in off the North Lawn to get to your maintenance shack yes right yep that's about how many feet would you say it is off or yards off a hundred yards off of North Lawn probably not even it's pretty tight to North Lawn right it's kind of tucked right up against it remember at that point it's really tough to pick it up on that on that aerial But North Lawn is above the maintenance building, so you're driving down a hill to get down to the maintenance area. And then there's a few homes that are just past it, and they're all up above what is the maintenance area. So the sound probably does come up. And they're, you know, just like similar to what you've probably seen down Maple for Oakland Hills now that they've built their buildings all out along Maple. They're all steel and concrete buildings. So, but like good neighbors who said you're going to try to work with her to try to figure out a way to mitigate some of those issues. Sure. Which is great. What she's looking for and what we're looking for. Got it. Okay. So I would like to make a motion that we approve what's in the packet. Support. Motion by Chris. Support by Neil. All in favor say aye. I would like to add to Chris's motion, if he's allowing, that some of the issues with sound and light, I know it's separate from this, but to get it on record, can we? Well, the problem is really a separate issue. That would be a separate issue. All right. So we'll just take the motion as been presented. And Andrea is aware and she's already, she's going to work on it. So we'll take the motion as presented by Chris and supported by Neil. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes 7-0. Thank you. Good luck to all. Thanks. Thank you, Andrea. Item number four. Consider placing a millage. Bye. Bye. a November ballot dedicated to repay bonds for township public services or public safety building. We'll start with Michael. Michael.

  16. So I would like to make a motion that we approve what's in the packet. Support. Motion by Chris. Support by Neil. All in favor say aye. I would like to add to Chris's motion, if he's allowing, that some of the issues with sound and light, I know it's separate from this, but to get it on record, can we? Well, the problem is really a separate issue. That would be a separate issue. All right. So we'll just take the motion as been presented. And Andrea is aware and she's already, she's going to work on it. So we'll take the motion as presented by Chris and supported by Neil. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes 7-0. Thank you. Good luck to all. Thanks. Thank you, Andrea. Item number four. Consider placing a millage. Bye. Bye. a November ballot dedicated to repay bonds for township public services or public safety building. We'll start with Michael. Michael. Okay. So we've been now for the last several meetings talking about this and really we've been talking about it for a while. Can you go to the next slide? Can you put it up in presentation mode? It's the little easel down at the lower right. Right above that. Right there. That one. Okay. Thank you. So I thought it would be instructive to look at the history of this project and center on where we've been and provide a background for what we're talking about. So in some In September 2023, based on the request of the police department and the fire department, the township hired Redstone Architects, which is a known architectural firm that specializes in public safety facilities to conduct a space needs assessment.

  17. Okay. So we've been now for the last several meetings talking about this and really we've been talking about it for a while. Can you go to the next slide? Can you put it up in presentation mode? It's the little easel down at the lower right. Right above that. Right there. That one. Okay. Thank you. So I thought it would be instructive to look at the history of this project and center on where we've been and provide a background for what we're talking about. So in some In September 2023, based on the request of the police department and the fire department, the township hired Redstone Architects, which is a known architectural firm that specializes in public safety facilities to conduct a space needs assessment. And the analysis was fire station number three, which is the location on Maple Road, and this building, the Township Hall Police Department building. And that process went through working with the departments and the various department heads here in the administration to come up with where we're at and what we feel we need. In 2024, we went through an extensive strategic plan process that lasted most of the year and ended up with the 2025 strategic plan. In January of 2025, Redstone presented their findings to the board. The recommendation was three new buildings, a fire station number three, either in its current location or in a location nearby, a new police department building, and a new town hall administration building. Following that and, you know, internal discussions, the board hired the Smith Group, which is another architectural firm, to provide campus design ideas and concepts so that We do immediately conversation with Mel Hyatt and dettoon, and then organize the show he gave us know that if we lied about it and we've been asked for the first time, then we counted right around.

  18. In September 2023, based on the request of the police department and the fire department, the township hired Redstone Architects, which is a known architectural firm that specializes in public safety facilities to conduct a space needs assessment. And the analysis was fire station number three, which is the location on Maple Road, and this building, the Township Hall Police Department building. And that process went through working with the departments and the various department heads here in the administration to come up with where we're at and what we feel we need. In 2024, we went through an extensive strategic plan process that lasted most of the year and ended up with the 2025 strategic plan. In January of 2025, Redstone presented their findings to the board. The recommendation was three new buildings, a fire station number three, either in its current location or in a location nearby, a new police department building, and a new town hall administration building. Following that and, you know, internal discussions, the board hired the Smith Group, which is another architectural firm, to provide campus design ideas and concepts so that We do immediately conversation with Mel Hyatt and dettoon, and then organize the show he gave us know that if we lied about it and we've been asked for the first time, then we counted right around. we could look at everything holistically um and we worked with smith group through the end of 2025 and into early 2026 they looked at the whole campus for redesign including the 48th district court ultimately we went back to redstone and had them conduct a space needs assessment for the court um and based on that result um it was determined that the court needed more space um they you know they say they need more space than they already have um but it just felt like we it was not something that we could combine with any other uh building so uh the decision was made to leave the court where it stands um in its current form um we received cost estimates for different building configurations and the project considered the findings of the 2025 strategic plan um three of which of the pillars of the strategic plan were reliable infrastructure enhancing the community character with green space and best-in-class government on the next slide please on the next slide this is um the proposal that i've been presenting over the

  19. we could look at everything holistically um and we worked with smith group through the end of 2025 and into early 2026 they looked at the whole campus for redesign including the 48th district court ultimately we went back to redstone and had them conduct a space needs assessment for the court um and based on that result um it was determined that the court needed more space um they you know they say they need more space than they already have um but it just felt like we it was not something that we could combine with any other uh building so uh the decision was made to leave the court where it stands um in its current form um we received cost estimates for different building configurations and the project considered the findings of the 2025 strategic plan um three of which of the pillars of the strategic plan were reliable infrastructure enhancing the community character with green space and best-in-class government on the next slide please on the next slide this is um the proposal that i've been presenting over the last few um meetings and we've been discussing for a long time throughout this process uh to replace this one building township hall police you building which is what you know it's roughly half and half police is probably 55 to 60 percent but to replace that with one new building to the south in between in the current parking lot between township hall and 48th district court we would move the communications and community affairs department into this new building from their current building this is the department formerly known as the cable department and so we would convert that cable building into the animal shelter and the old animal shelter would be taken down to make room for parking for the new building and this building would be taken down as well and we would have the ability to build a park or green space some kind of green space on our township campus so the business case i think that you know supports this proposal it simplifies operations by remaining in just one building it's a more efficient use of space eliminates any excess

  20. on the next slide please on the next slide this is um the proposal that i've been presenting over the last few um meetings and we've been discussing for a long time throughout this process uh to replace this one building township hall police you building which is what you know it's roughly half and half police is probably 55 to 60 percent but to replace that with one new building to the south in between in the current parking lot between township hall and 48th district court we would move the communications and community affairs department into this new building from their current building this is the department formerly known as the cable department and so we would convert that cable building into the animal shelter and the old animal shelter would be taken down to make room for parking for the new building and this building would be taken down as well and we would have the ability to build a park or green space some kind of green space on our township campus so the business case i think that you know supports this proposal it simplifies operations by remaining in just one building it's a more efficient use of space eliminates any excess space in the town hall building modern construction will lower ongoing operating costs it provides much requested in a first ever township park or green space there's definite synergies of having the township administration the police and the emergency operation center together and it eliminates the unknown costs of maintaining this building which is a 90-year-old building that is really three buildings in one. The original building was built in the late 1930s. There was a addition put on in the 1960s, and then there was a third edition or a second edition, I guess, put on in the early 1990s. And so really it's the way it's built. It's three separate buildings that all connect together. So there are three different mechanical systems, HVAC, plumbing, all of that that comprises this one building. On the next slide, please. These are the financial projections, assuming a building footprint of

  21. by remaining in just one building it's a more efficient use of space eliminates any excess space in the town hall building modern construction will lower ongoing operating costs it provides much requested in a first ever township park or green space there's definite synergies of having the township administration the police and the emergency operation center together and it eliminates the unknown costs of maintaining this building which is a 90-year-old building that is really three buildings in one. The original building was built in the late 1930s. There was a addition put on in the 1960s, and then there was a third edition or a second edition, I guess, put on in the early 1990s. And so really it's the way it's built. It's three separate buildings that all connect together. So there are three different mechanical systems, HVAC, plumbing, all of that that comprises this one building. On the next slide, please. These are the financial projections, assuming a building footprint of 210 feet by 125 feet. The cost of the new building would be about $74 million. You add in the demo for the two buildings, the animal shelter in this building, some site work. You add in the cost of the fire station. We did receive a state grant for $1.5 million towards the fire station. And then you throw in some funds to convert the cable into the animal shelter. I think that's a pretty conservative number. We have our capital reserve, which is what we've been funding for this kind of project over the last six years, six, seven years. And the net project costs would be about $58.9 million. And with bond issuance costs, it comes out to a round number of about $60 million. The first year debt service, assuming a two-series bond issuance, would be 0.235 mils, which on the average taxable value home of $260,000 is about $104. On the next slide, this is just some early concepts. So originally, we had talked about potentially building a park or green space area at the corner of Telegraph and Exeter.

  22. On the next slide, please. These are the financial projections, assuming a building footprint of 210 feet by 125 feet. The cost of the new building would be about $74 million. You add in the demo for the two buildings, the animal shelter in this building, some site work. You add in the cost of the fire station. We did receive a state grant for $1.5 million towards the fire station. And then you throw in some funds to convert the cable into the animal shelter. I think that's a pretty conservative number. We have our capital reserve, which is what we've been funding for this kind of project over the last six years, six, seven years. And the net project costs would be about $58.9 million. And with bond issuance costs, it comes out to a round number of about $60 million. The first year debt service, assuming a two-series bond issuance, would be 0.235 mils, which on the average taxable value home of $260,000 is about $104. On the next slide, this is just some early concepts. So originally, we had talked about potentially building a park or green space area at the corner of Telegraph and Exeter. We thought about it and proposed this as an alternative so that the park wouldn't be next to Telegraph Road. We could take over that parking lot and then convert the slanted shaded areas to parking. And that would provide all of the parking that we would need. And so it is a pretty good size green space area that we could build out the first for the township. On the next slide, please. So the timeline, assuming that the millage is approved in November, next year, early next year, we would issue an RFP for a construction manager and an architect. Late 27, early 28, we'd issue the first series of bonds. On the next slide, please. construction would begin the first levy of the bond village would be in winter 2028 so that's two years from now we'd issue the second series of bonds either late 28 or early 29 and the first full levy of the bond village would be in the

  23. So originally, we had talked about potentially building a park or green space area at the corner of Telegraph and Exeter. We thought about it and proposed this as an alternative so that the park wouldn't be next to Telegraph Road. We could take over that parking lot and then convert the slanted shaded areas to parking. And that would provide all of the parking that we would need. And so it is a pretty good size green space area that we could build out the first for the township. On the next slide, please. So the timeline, assuming that the millage is approved in November, next year, early next year, we would issue an RFP for a construction manager and an architect. Late 27, early 28, we'd issue the first series of bonds. On the next slide, please. construction would begin the first levy of the bond village would be in winter 2028 so that's two years from now we'd issue the second series of bonds either late 28 or early 29 and the first full levy of the bond village would be in the winter tax of 2029 and right around then is when the construction would be completed so in the last slide just the summary of the proposal it's a comprehensive solution it efficiently utilizes space and simplifies operations in one building instead of two I already went over the bond specifics it eliminates any unknown maintenance or repair liability of a 90-year-old building with the three different mechanical systems we have no idea what kind of issues could come up over the next 10 20 years with with this kind of building we have to set aside a large amount of money to be able to fund that the existing town hall once the police moves out would only be about 60 percent utilized the by removing the current town hall building we would be able to put in that park either at the corner or in the other parking lot the millage difference would be about 86 cents in the first year and about $20 per average for the average taxpayer per year between the two proposals I think this follows the strategic plan

  24. late 28 or early 29 and the first full levy of the bond village would be in the winter tax of 2029 and right around then is when the construction would be completed so in the last slide just the summary of the proposal it's a comprehensive solution it efficiently utilizes space and simplifies operations in one building instead of two I already went over the bond specifics it eliminates any unknown maintenance or repair liability of a 90-year-old building with the three different mechanical systems we have no idea what kind of issues could come up over the next 10 20 years with with this kind of building we have to set aside a large amount of money to be able to fund that the existing town hall once the police moves out would only be about 60 percent utilized the by removing the current town hall building we would be able to put in that park either at the corner or in the other parking lot the millage difference would be about 86 cents in the first year and about $20 per average for the average taxpayer per year between the two proposals I think this follows the strategic plan that we spent a lot of time and effort working on calling for upgrades in infrastructure and providing much needed green space and i'll add that the administration has a demonstrated track record of watching costs and returning surplus funds to taxpayers that's not just from the road projects that we've done in bluefield village for example where we've returned a significant amount of money to taxpayers but we also refunded or refinanced the last series of bonds that will be a direct savings to taxpayers of over half a million dollars and so i think that we've demonstrated that we are very keenly watching costs and doing what's in the best interest of the taxpayers and what's in the best interest of the uh township as a whole for the future so that's my presentation i'd be happy to take any questions all right thank you michael any questions for michael yes i do um uh an average of 20 dollars per taxpayer per year that's 300 000 a year

  25. that we spent a lot of time and effort working on calling for upgrades in infrastructure and providing much needed green space and i'll add that the administration has a demonstrated track record of watching costs and returning surplus funds to taxpayers that's not just from the road projects that we've done in bluefield village for example where we've returned a significant amount of money to taxpayers but we also refunded or refinanced the last series of bonds that will be a direct savings to taxpayers of over half a million dollars and so i think that we've demonstrated that we are very keenly watching costs and doing what's in the best interest of the taxpayers and what's in the best interest of the uh township as a whole for the future so that's my presentation i'd be happy to take any questions all right thank you michael any questions for michael yes i do um uh an average of 20 dollars per taxpayer per year that's 300 000 a year 15 000 rate payers let's say no no this is not rate payers this is so the average taxable value in the township for a whole for a property owner is 260 000 dollars that's the average taxable value we multiply that by the 0.08 mills that would be the difference between the two proposals and that comes out to about twenty dollars a year for the average taxpayer so if we have 15 000 taxpayers in the township at twenty dollars per it's three hundred thousand dollars per year um we have sixteen thousand or so taxpayers but everybody has a different taxable value so everyone pays this is so this is it says i'm trying to get out how much money are is it raising per year it says 20. okay you're trying to figure out how much money this will raise per year yeah okay so um i have those numbers

  26. yes i do um uh an average of 20 dollars per taxpayer per year that's 300 000 a year 15 000 rate payers let's say no no this is not rate payers this is so the average taxable value in the township for a whole for a property owner is 260 000 dollars that's the average taxable value we multiply that by the 0.08 mills that would be the difference between the two proposals and that comes out to about twenty dollars a year for the average taxpayer so if we have 15 000 taxpayers in the township at twenty dollars per it's three hundred thousand dollars per year um we have sixteen thousand or so taxpayers but everybody has a different taxable value so everyone pays this is so this is it says i'm trying to get out how much money are is it raising per year it says 20. okay you're trying to figure out how much money this will raise per year yeah okay so um i have those numbers somewhere here give me one second so remember we're talking about taxable values we're not talking about rate payers or anything having to do with water and sewer we're talking about taxpayers and taxpayers have different taxable values based on the values of their property and whether or not they've been capped etc so the average tax if you look at all of the taxable values for all of the parcels in the township the average taxpayer has a value of two hundred and sixty thousand dollars that's their taxable value than me if you know that's a which is different fruit and you would multiply that and you would multiply that and you would multiply that you would multiply that taxable value by the number of mills that they um get levied and that calculates their annual property tax so i'm suggesting that the difference between the two proposals under consideration tonight is 0.08 mills that's the difference between the two and so the difference between the two is roughly twenty dollars per year for the average taxpayer does that make sense but that doesn't tell me how much you're collecting per year okay that's a different question um the collection would be once the bonds are fully levied the collection would be a little under three million dollars

  27. somewhere here give me one second so remember we're talking about taxable values we're not talking about rate payers or anything having to do with water and sewer we're talking about taxpayers and taxpayers have different taxable values based on the values of their property and whether or not they've been capped etc so the average tax if you look at all of the taxable values for all of the parcels in the township the average taxpayer has a value of two hundred and sixty thousand dollars that's their taxable value than me if you know that's a which is different fruit and you would multiply that and you would multiply that and you would multiply that you would multiply that taxable value by the number of mills that they um get levied and that calculates their annual property tax so i'm suggesting that the difference between the two proposals under consideration tonight is 0.08 mills that's the difference between the two and so the difference between the two is roughly twenty dollars per year for the average taxpayer does that make sense but that doesn't tell me how much you're collecting per year okay that's a different question um the collection would be once the bonds are fully levied the collection would be a little under three million dollars uh the township currently charges rent to water and sewer even though we have a a debt millage on the campus what is going to be the um rental income charged to public safety for this new facility um we don't charge rent to public safety because it's a governmental fund um we never charge rent to public safety so but we are charging with to water water water to water is an enterprise fund it's a little bit different These are governmental funds, so we don't charge rent to the roads department, we don't charge rent to the senior center, we don't charge rent to the cable department. Okay, and then the last question I have is here it says set aside taxpayer funds, but in last week's meeting we talked about investment income being retained by the general fund from water and sewer, so some of that.

  28. uh the township currently charges rent to water and sewer even though we have a a debt millage on the campus what is going to be the um rental income charged to public safety for this new facility um we don't charge rent to public safety because it's a governmental fund um we never charge rent to public safety so but we are charging with to water water water to water is an enterprise fund it's a little bit different These are governmental funds, so we don't charge rent to the roads department, we don't charge rent to the senior center, we don't charge rent to the cable department. Okay, and then the last question I have is here it says set aside taxpayer funds, but in last week's meeting we talked about investment income being retained by the general fund from water and sewer, so some of that. Well, again, you're drawing a connection to something that's really unrelated, we had surplus funds over the last six or seven years that we've been setting aside in a capital reserve for just such a project, that's why we've set it aside, we didn't spend it on whatever, we operated as lean as possible and we saved that money and so that savings, that capital reserve is now being used to fund a capital project. Correct, and last year investment income was approximately 6.9 million and that seems high but okay. So without that investment income, the transfers would not have been made to get it to the... 30 million that's why i'm making that statement well i would tell you that the inc the increased investment income from higher interest rates certainly played a part in our ability to set

  29. Okay, and then the last question I have is here it says set aside taxpayer funds, but in last week's meeting we talked about investment income being retained by the general fund from water and sewer, so some of that. Well, again, you're drawing a connection to something that's really unrelated, we had surplus funds over the last six or seven years that we've been setting aside in a capital reserve for just such a project, that's why we've set it aside, we didn't spend it on whatever, we operated as lean as possible and we saved that money and so that savings, that capital reserve is now being used to fund a capital project. Correct, and last year investment income was approximately 6.9 million and that seems high but okay. So without that investment income, the transfers would not have been made to get it to the... 30 million that's why i'm making that statement well i would tell you that the inc the increased investment income from higher interest rates certainly played a part in our ability to set aside funds correct including waters well as we've discussed the interest from township investments goes into the general fund as per state law okay okay any other questions for michael i would like to make questions after i hear both proposals yeah that's what i thought okay so are you done michael i am okay so here one take one and pass it on all right i have a different proposal here for you to look at and i'm working from the projections that redstone provided to us i am not interested in building a new town hall i think the town hall we have is very sufficient but let's start with the top page i put together here where it says new public safety building and fire station number three okay and again i included in the back of your packet the numbers that were included with the study that was conducted by redstone and you'll see in that my numbers will match up to what's on this sheet

  30. investment income from higher interest rates certainly played a part in our ability to set aside funds correct including waters well as we've discussed the interest from township investments goes into the general fund as per state law okay okay any other questions for michael i would like to make questions after i hear both proposals yeah that's what i thought okay so are you done michael i am okay so here one take one and pass it on all right i have a different proposal here for you to look at and i'm working from the projections that redstone provided to us i am not interested in building a new town hall i think the town hall we have is very sufficient but let's start with the top page i put together here where it says new public safety building and fire station number three okay and again i included in the back of your packet the numbers that were included with the study that was conducted by redstone and you'll see in that my numbers will match up to what's on this sheet redstone. Okay. So I'll start with a new public safety building of 60,000 square feet at $650 per square foot, which is $39 million. He put a number in here for contingency fees of $3.9 million, which is 10% of construction costs. He put in soft costs of $9,750,000 approximately, which is basically, I think, furniture and fixtures, $9,750,000. He put a price in here for a lower level parking. So we can put our cars, police cars and parking down below of $6 million. But in his other caption, he put a little different number in there as a parking deck versus underground parking. Parking deck would be $3.9 million, but we did the $6 million. We put in there animal shelter demolition of $200,000, site work of $1,750,000. And again, I'm working from Redstone's report, which you have a copy of. And then the fire station number three, an estimate of $12 million. If you turn the page and look at if we issue a bond to build the public safety building along with station number three, with all the costs

  31. redstone. Okay. So I'll start with a new public safety building of 60,000 square feet at $650 per square foot, which is $39 million. He put a number in here for contingency fees of $3.9 million, which is 10% of construction costs. He put in soft costs of $9,750,000 approximately, which is basically, I think, furniture and fixtures, $9,750,000. He put a price in here for a lower level parking. So we can put our cars, police cars and parking down below of $6 million. But in his other caption, he put a little different number in there as a parking deck versus underground parking. Parking deck would be $3.9 million, but we did the $6 million. We put in there animal shelter demolition of $200,000, site work of $1,750,000. And again, I'm working from Redstone's report, which you have a copy of. And then the fire station number three, an estimate of $12 million. If you turn the page and look at if we issue a bond to build the public safety building along with station number three, with all the costs I just discussed, over a 20-year period, we do a $20 million bond, which creates $25,741,260. Just把它 mining downUm. Very good. You good. in interest over a 20-year period with a total debt repayment millage of $75,741,260, which means we'd have to use approximately, from the $30 million we have set aside, approximately $23 million of those dollars would be used to build, and we'd be financing $50 million over 20 years with a total debt repayment of almost $76 million. If we were to do a bond for $60 million over 25 years, as Michael presented, which creates an interest of $44 million, $870,590, almost $45 million in total debt payments for over 25 years, creates a total debt of $104 million, $875,590, so almost $30 million more to do

  32. bond to build the public safety building along with station number three, with all the costs I just discussed, over a 20-year period, we do a $20 million bond, which creates $25,741,260. Just把它 mining downUm. Very good. You good. in interest over a 20-year period with a total debt repayment millage of $75,741,260, which means we'd have to use approximately, from the $30 million we have set aside, approximately $23 million of those dollars would be used to build, and we'd be financing $50 million over 20 years with a total debt repayment of almost $76 million. If we were to do a bond for $60 million over 25 years, as Michael presented, which creates an interest of $44 million, $870,590, almost $45 million in total debt payments for over 25 years, creates a total debt of $104 million, $875,590, so almost $30 million more to do that. Then if you look at, I put another sheet in there about Township Hall, I'll remind you our Township Hall is paid for, it has been well maintained, and we will continue to maintain it. The police department relocates to a new building, alleviates a space challenge at Township Hall that we've had. We've had planning building ordinance, which I estimate that they need about two and a half times the space that they have now. We have human resources and finance departments that are co-mingled together that need to be separated. This will allow us to separate them and have their own space. We also will create more conference rooms. We only have two to work from right now, our main conference room on the first floor, and then a small PBO conference room downstairs. And I'll tell you, when we hired an HR director, we're in the process of hiring an HR director, we had no space to put her. I went to every department here looking for space, and no one would give up any space. And so we have a new director coming in with nowhere to put her. Finally, our police chief, Jimmy Gallagher, said, I'll give you our conference room to create space.

  33. 25 years, creates a total debt of $104 million, $875,590, so almost $30 million more to do that. Then if you look at, I put another sheet in there about Township Hall, I'll remind you our Township Hall is paid for, it has been well maintained, and we will continue to maintain it. The police department relocates to a new building, alleviates a space challenge at Township Hall that we've had. We've had planning building ordinance, which I estimate that they need about two and a half times the space that they have now. We have human resources and finance departments that are co-mingled together that need to be separated. This will allow us to separate them and have their own space. We also will create more conference rooms. We only have two to work from right now, our main conference room on the first floor, and then a small PBO conference room downstairs. And I'll tell you, when we hired an HR director, we're in the process of hiring an HR director, we had no space to put her. I went to every department here looking for space, and no one would give up any space. And so we have a new director coming in with nowhere to put her. Finally, our police chief, Jimmy Gallagher, said, I'll give you our conference room to create space. We'll just have to share a conference room. So Jimmy, thank you for that. And that opened up a space. The other issue that we ran into is we've had some mothers come back to work that needed lactation rooms. We haven't been able to locate a space for a lactation room. And this, by creating this extra space, we need this extra space. And we could bring cable over here, the cable department over here, which exists of four employees, and we'd be able to fill about 90 to 95% of this building when PD moves out. And we don't have to move cement walls or brick walls. There's already cubicles. There's down below in PD. that they could move into. There's also been drywall installed for the command staff that will be used by a deputy director and other inspectors. There's a counter there for them. If you move upstairs, we could put finance back where the PD office is. Would it make up more room for our HR department and we can also expand for the clerk's office, who the clerk's office has their equipment in two different buildings and spread out probably in about three or four different rooms. We'll be able to combine that as well. So we would fill

  34. I'll give you our conference room to create space. We'll just have to share a conference room. So Jimmy, thank you for that. And that opened up a space. The other issue that we ran into is we've had some mothers come back to work that needed lactation rooms. We haven't been able to locate a space for a lactation room. And this, by creating this extra space, we need this extra space. And we could bring cable over here, the cable department over here, which exists of four employees, and we'd be able to fill about 90 to 95% of this building when PD moves out. And we don't have to move cement walls or brick walls. There's already cubicles. There's down below in PD. that they could move into. There's also been drywall installed for the command staff that will be used by a deputy director and other inspectors. There's a counter there for them. If you move upstairs, we could put finance back where the PD office is. Would it make up more room for our HR department and we can also expand for the clerk's office, who the clerk's office has their equipment in two different buildings and spread out probably in about three or four different rooms. We'll be able to combine that as well. So we would fill this building. The only problem we'd have is where the jail cells are and where they come in to come into the jail cells. That would probably, if we decided to do something that, yes, that would probably determine some construction costs involved. But I see very little other construction to have to occur that we can move all these people into. And then on the last page I put on there that alleviates a current spacing challenge at Township Hall. It creates, we can create now a lactation room, which by law we're required to have. We bring the cable, community cable studio over to the, this building, which would open up our cable building. As Michael said, it would probably take about a million dollars to redo the communication and cable building into an animal shelter with dog runs and we could probably find room to put a dog park in there. And then the, because the current building. is going to be demolished we relocate and we'll be creating green space for our dogs i also looked at through budinsky and i had him price out on the bonds for us and i explained to you that under the bond with a 50 million dollar bond using 23 million dollars of our 30 million dollars

  35. four different rooms. We'll be able to combine that as well. So we would fill this building. The only problem we'd have is where the jail cells are and where they come in to come into the jail cells. That would probably, if we decided to do something that, yes, that would probably determine some construction costs involved. But I see very little other construction to have to occur that we can move all these people into. And then on the last page I put on there that alleviates a current spacing challenge at Township Hall. It creates, we can create now a lactation room, which by law we're required to have. We bring the cable, community cable studio over to the, this building, which would open up our cable building. As Michael said, it would probably take about a million dollars to redo the communication and cable building into an animal shelter with dog runs and we could probably find room to put a dog park in there. And then the, because the current building. is going to be demolished we relocate and we'll be creating green space for our dogs i also looked at through budinsky and i had him price out on the bonds for us and i explained to you that under the bond with a 50 million dollar bond using 23 million dollars of our 30 million dollars that we have saved up is would cost us a total at the end of the day after 20 years 75 million 741 260 almost 76 million dollars and if you were to take the 60 million 60 million dollar bond over 25 years we would be paying 44 almost 45 million dollars in interest for a total of 104 million 870 590 almost 30 million dollars more and at the same first year millage rate on both of the 50 million dollar bond at 20 years is 0.2350 where the 25 million dollar bond for the um first year millage rate would be 2.2383 and then the average annual millage requirement would be 0.4380 compared to 0.4522 for a 25 year bond very similar numbers but a significant savings over a period of time of 30 million dollars any questions

  36. under the bond with a 50 million dollar bond using 23 million dollars of our 30 million dollars that we have saved up is would cost us a total at the end of the day after 20 years 75 million 741 260 almost 76 million dollars and if you were to take the 60 million 60 million dollar bond over 25 years we would be paying 44 almost 45 million dollars in interest for a total of 104 million 870 590 almost 30 million dollars more and at the same first year millage rate on both of the 50 million dollar bond at 20 years is 0.2350 where the 25 million dollar bond for the um first year millage rate would be 2.2383 and then the average annual millage requirement would be 0.4380 compared to 0.4522 for a 25 year bond very similar numbers but a significant savings over a period of time of 30 million dollars any questions I want to say is I think this has been a conversation that's ongoing as Michael said for quite some time and it's been a really lively interesting conversation and it will be tonight. There's I think before us two very viable paths to take. The problem is the same, the essential core problem which is the public safety, the police function. It has long outgrown its space to provide the public safety, its services that are required today and into the future. We really do need to address that and that's the sort of cornerstone issue. Of course there's also a fire station three on Maple Road that's that's in in both of these proposals and in both these proposals is a solution to the police challenges. Why is it a challenge? I mean there's many reasons you know the experts say so for for sure but as Michael mentioned there's been three additions to this building. One of them provided space

  37. I want to say is I think this has been a conversation that's ongoing as Michael said for quite some time and it's been a really lively interesting conversation and it will be tonight. There's I think before us two very viable paths to take. The problem is the same, the essential core problem which is the public safety, the police function. It has long outgrown its space to provide the public safety, its services that are required today and into the future. We really do need to address that and that's the sort of cornerstone issue. Of course there's also a fire station three on Maple Road that's that's in in both of these proposals and in both these proposals is a solution to the police challenges. Why is it a challenge? I mean there's many reasons you know the experts say so for for sure but as Michael mentioned there's been three additions to this building. One of them provided space space for a PBO was a major part of that expansion when the Planning Building Ordinance Department was created. And the two. 2000s and other functions. They live in the central, the old basement of the original building built in the, during the depression. Another addition created space for police and additional command, a sally port, additional and relocated jail cells. And that was in the 1990s. In the mid 2000s, the township asked residents to support working on the campus and the Department of Public Works, Fire Station number one, you know, Senior Center were all created and they've been really wonderful facilities that have paid back wonderfully to the community through services for roads and seniors and so forth. But left out at that time was town hall and public safety and and that was a decision, you know, that I wasn't here for. I don't know exactly all those

  38. mentioned there's been three additions to this building. One of them provided space space for a PBO was a major part of that expansion when the Planning Building Ordinance Department was created. And the two. 2000s and other functions. They live in the central, the old basement of the original building built in the, during the depression. Another addition created space for police and additional command, a sally port, additional and relocated jail cells. And that was in the 1990s. In the mid 2000s, the township asked residents to support working on the campus and the Department of Public Works, Fire Station number one, you know, Senior Center were all created and they've been really wonderful facilities that have paid back wonderfully to the community through services for roads and seniors and so forth. But left out at that time was town hall and public safety and and that was a decision, you know, that I wasn't here for. I don't know exactly all those reasons but certainly they were left out. It's been a need that has grown only more important as the years go by. I don't think we need to wonder why the demands on policing have changed from, you know, the 2000s with with 911 and all the stressors that are that are placed on our first responders and including the police to which are have to carry, I'm sorry, the fire which have to carry important tasks Which are related to. related to emergency situations as well as the police so we also have you know the old one of the only communities in the state that has its own emergency operations center which both police and fire contribute to considerably and that's over the DPW building as well as the the gun range for police for training purposes so this is a this is you know an important inflection point in deciding the directions where we're going to go as a community and you know we had those inflection points in the early 2000s and and other times so I you know I you know certainly been involved in a lot of these a lot of these if not all of these conversations and you know I've been

  39. was a decision, you know, that I wasn't here for. I don't know exactly all those reasons but certainly they were left out. It's been a need that has grown only more important as the years go by. I don't think we need to wonder why the demands on policing have changed from, you know, the 2000s with with 911 and all the stressors that are that are placed on our first responders and including the police to which are have to carry, I'm sorry, the fire which have to carry important tasks Which are related to. related to emergency situations as well as the police so we also have you know the old one of the only communities in the state that has its own emergency operations center which both police and fire contribute to considerably and that's over the DPW building as well as the the gun range for police for training purposes so this is a this is you know an important inflection point in deciding the directions where we're going to go as a community and you know we had those inflection points in the early 2000s and and other times so I you know I you know certainly been involved in a lot of these a lot of these if not all of these conversations and you know I've been debating in my own mind about which which way to go you know I think that as I said maybe not said more clearly but I don't think there's a wrong answer I really don't I think that there is this is not a math problem that we can simply add up five five numbers and say oh obviously it's this one you know there's pluses and minuses to both approaches no doubt the michael's decision has more money that's in the bond and the the proposal focused on public safety has less um uh in today's dollars uh but there's also long-term considerations we need to think about so you just just one example of something that isn't just really easy but easily to add it up um so us as trustees you know we're here to make this discretionary decision i mean that's what we're elected to do to think about the factors and and if it were easy to be all added up i guess we'd ask ai i wonder what it's ia's opinion is anyway i haven't asked but i'm sure it has one um but i'm not going to go with that that's for sure um uh because you know people have been elected to make these decisions and and um you know the long-term vision here for space um to you know

  40. in a lot of these a lot of these if not all of these conversations and you know I've been debating in my own mind about which which way to go you know I think that as I said maybe not said more clearly but I don't think there's a wrong answer I really don't I think that there is this is not a math problem that we can simply add up five five numbers and say oh obviously it's this one you know there's pluses and minuses to both approaches no doubt the michael's decision has more money that's in the bond and the the proposal focused on public safety has less um uh in today's dollars uh but there's also long-term considerations we need to think about so you just just one example of something that isn't just really easy but easily to add it up um so us as trustees you know we're here to make this discretionary decision i mean that's what we're elected to do to think about the factors and and if it were easy to be all added up i guess we'd ask ai i wonder what it's ia's opinion is anyway i haven't asked but i'm sure it has one um but i'm not going to go with that that's for sure um uh because you know people have been elected to make these decisions and and um you know the long-term vision here for space um to you know to solve this building's issues which are real um and and the police department's issues and support the the cost long term you know i'm very attracted to the comprehensive solution that has been presented um you know and i don't know what else to say about that but but uh you know it's it's you know it's an important decision that we have lasting impacts um if the community were to support this proposal uh or another another proposal um it will be an investment um that will pay back dividends to the taxpayers and residents through um service improvements um throughout uh throughout the township and i think it's well worth the investment uh if we just choose to ask them to support us in this this endeavor um which in part is made I mean, the numbers are really on the reasonable end as far as these costs go because of the savings that have been driven and saved for over the past six years that would be contributed to these projects.

  41. make these decisions and and um you know the long-term vision here for space um to you know to solve this building's issues which are real um and and the police department's issues and support the the cost long term you know i'm very attracted to the comprehensive solution that has been presented um you know and i don't know what else to say about that but but uh you know it's it's you know it's an important decision that we have lasting impacts um if the community were to support this proposal uh or another another proposal um it will be an investment um that will pay back dividends to the taxpayers and residents through um service improvements um throughout uh throughout the township and i think it's well worth the investment uh if we just choose to ask them to support us in this this endeavor um which in part is made I mean, the numbers are really on the reasonable end as far as these costs go because of the savings that have been driven and saved for over the past six years that would be contributed to these projects. So, yeah, those are my initial thoughts about these things and thanks for both these proposals. You know, and I look forward to more conversation about it here tonight. So, and by the way, I think that it's a testament to us and how well we're going to, how well this, we think about things on behalf of our community that we have two good proposals here to think about and debate and come to a decision on. Can I just make a few points of clarification before we engage other thoughts? So, a couple of things. First, regarding the bond dollars, I suggested that we ask the voters for a 25 year period to pay the bonds. That doesn't mean we have to do 25 years. We could do 20 years. I want the flexibility for us to be able to look at the market, what our actual spending is, where interest rates are, et cetera, to make what's the best decision at the time. So, going to 25 years, asking for 25 years gives us that flexibility. We could still do 20, so to compare apples to apples. If you

  42. So, yeah, those are my initial thoughts about these things and thanks for both these proposals. You know, and I look forward to more conversation about it here tonight. So, and by the way, I think that it's a testament to us and how well we're going to, how well this, we think about things on behalf of our community that we have two good proposals here to think about and debate and come to a decision on. Can I just make a few points of clarification before we engage other thoughts? So, a couple of things. First, regarding the bond dollars, I suggested that we ask the voters for a 25 year period to pay the bonds. That doesn't mean we have to do 25 years. We could do 20 years. I want the flexibility for us to be able to look at the market, what our actual spending is, where interest rates are, et cetera, to make what's the best decision at the time. So, going to 25 years, asking for 25 years gives us that flexibility. We could still do 20, so to compare apples to apples. If you at a 20-year bond for the 60 million dollar bond the interest amount is actually only 30 million not 44 million so that you know you got it versus the 25 million so you really got to compare apples to apples there um and then the one other um so just to be clear michael and i have that here it's 31 million in uh if you went 20 years which would drive the cost up to 91 million which is 15 then 15 million dollars more than the 75 million yes but i was you your slide says interest so i was comparing the interest yeah that's what i'm looking at here it'd be in 20 on a 60 million dollar bond a 20-year bond issue would create 31 million dollars in interest um versus 25 versus 25 six million dollars more so it would it would drive the cost up to 91 million with a 60 million dollar bond versus a 50 million bond would be at about 75 million dollars right understood so there's the 10 million extra of principal and then there's a five million dollar interest increase over over the same 20 years okay so i just want to be clear

  43. at a 20-year bond for the 60 million dollar bond the interest amount is actually only 30 million not 44 million so that you know you got it versus the 25 million so you really got to compare apples to apples there um and then the one other um so just to be clear michael and i have that here it's 31 million in uh if you went 20 years which would drive the cost up to 91 million which is 15 then 15 million dollars more than the 75 million yes but i was you your slide says interest so i was comparing the interest yeah that's what i'm looking at here it'd be in 20 on a 60 million dollar bond a 20-year bond issue would create 31 million dollars in interest um versus 25 versus 25 six million dollars more so it would it would drive the cost up to 91 million with a 60 million dollar bond versus a 50 million bond would be at about 75 million dollars right understood so there's the 10 million extra of principal and then there's a five million dollar interest increase over over the same 20 years okay so i just want to be clear about that um and uh regarding the um project costs um a couple things first the proposal that redstone put together um assumed one building and he out allocated the cost for that building between public safety and town hall so for example looking at the site work the site work is going to cost two and a half million dollars regardless of whether you make it three floors or two floors the site work is the site work so you really have to include the 2.5 million total for the building he just allocated it between the two assuming that we were all in one building but if it's only public safety then that two and a half million would have to go to public safety so that's that would be an additional 750,000 and then the other thing to just to keep in mind is that I'm using a different number for the construction costs which came from the Smith group and I validated against no buys recent project construction costs so it may be that it is only at a cost of $650 I estimated $850 per square foot so to compare the proposals

  44. a five million dollar interest increase over over the same 20 years okay so i just want to be clear about that um and uh regarding the um project costs um a couple things first the proposal that redstone put together um assumed one building and he out allocated the cost for that building between public safety and town hall so for example looking at the site work the site work is going to cost two and a half million dollars regardless of whether you make it three floors or two floors the site work is the site work so you really have to include the 2.5 million total for the building he just allocated it between the two assuming that we were all in one building but if it's only public safety then that two and a half million would have to go to public safety so that's that would be an additional 750,000 and then the other thing to just to keep in mind is that I'm using a different number for the construction costs which came from the Smith group and I validated against no buys recent project construction costs so it may be that it is only at a cost of $650 I estimated $850 per square foot so to compare the proposals you really got to put them on the same you know cost structure you can't you know I'm being more conservative with my numbers that's why I used 850 based on what I saw well if you're using 850 that's a much higher cost than the 650 I used so it would drive the cost up even higher right no I 850 is what I used in my proposal but I'm saying that right now that number came from the Smith group which was validated against what no buys currently spending so I'm saying I hope it's $6.50 a square foot, in which case I'd have to recalculate my numbers and they would actually be lower. I'm using a higher number as a conservative estimate based on what I'm seeing out there. I just want to clarify that, to keep in mind that we're using two different sets of cost estimates. I'm just using the Redstone that came here and did their study, and that's what we're using. That's what you have in front of you. I understand, but Smith Group also did a study. Did they go throughout every building? They did. And I didn't see that. Do you have a copy that you could share with us? I could certainly print it out and give it to you. I know Redstone was done a few years ago, so that might be a little more out of date. When was the Smith study done? Smith Group study was done at the end of 25, beginning of 26.

  45. be that it is only at a cost of $650 I estimated $850 per square foot so to compare the proposals you really got to put them on the same you know cost structure you can't you know I'm being more conservative with my numbers that's why I used 850 based on what I saw well if you're using 850 that's a much higher cost than the 650 I used so it would drive the cost up even higher right no I 850 is what I used in my proposal but I'm saying that right now that number came from the Smith group which was validated against what no buys currently spending so I'm saying I hope it's $6.50 a square foot, in which case I'd have to recalculate my numbers and they would actually be lower. I'm using a higher number as a conservative estimate based on what I'm seeing out there. I just want to clarify that, to keep in mind that we're using two different sets of cost estimates. I'm just using the Redstone that came here and did their study, and that's what we're using. That's what you have in front of you. I understand, but Smith Group also did a study. Did they go throughout every building? They did. And I didn't see that. Do you have a copy that you could share with us? I could certainly print it out and give it to you. I know Redstone was done a few years ago, so that might be a little more out of date. When was the Smith study done? Smith Group study was done at the end of 25, beginning of 26. Because, as we all know, everything just seems to go up. Oh, it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. But we also have to look at what our needs are and what our wants are. Our needs are a public safety building and a new fire station. We may want a new town hall, but our need is public safety, and that is fire and police. If I may make a couple of comments. So, I want to emulate what Brooke talked about. I think, regardless of what option we choose here today, we're going after the needs of the township, which Supervisor McCready is talking about. The needs are police and fire. Police and fire. and the needs are to follow our strategic plan and make investments in our infrastructure. So we are following that regardless of what plan we go through. We talk about being financial stewards of this money, which I know Supervisor McCready continues to talk about, which I appreciate. I think about, as Treasurer, we reissued some of our bonds, and as a board, came up with different types of policies so we could provide sad money returns in a faster manner. Again, being good stewards of our taxpayer money. As Supervisor, Supervisor McCready went to the county and was able to lobby to get some extra money from the county to help offset some of these sads.

  46. Smith Group study was done at the end of 25, beginning of 26. Because, as we all know, everything just seems to go up. Oh, it is. Absolutely. Absolutely. But we also have to look at what our needs are and what our wants are. Our needs are a public safety building and a new fire station. We may want a new town hall, but our need is public safety, and that is fire and police. If I may make a couple of comments. So, I want to emulate what Brooke talked about. I think, regardless of what option we choose here today, we're going after the needs of the township, which Supervisor McCready is talking about. The needs are police and fire. Police and fire. and the needs are to follow our strategic plan and make investments in our infrastructure. So we are following that regardless of what plan we go through. We talk about being financial stewards of this money, which I know Supervisor McCready continues to talk about, which I appreciate. I think about, as Treasurer, we reissued some of our bonds, and as a board, came up with different types of policies so we could provide sad money returns in a faster manner. Again, being good stewards of our taxpayer money. As Supervisor, Supervisor McCready went to the county and was able to lobby to get some extra money from the county to help offset some of these sads. So again, constantly, whether it was $50,000 or $500,000 in some cases, we're always looking for ways to help our taxpayers with this shoulder of burden that a lot of our services have. When I look at the clerk, he reduced some of our voting districts and even did some of the elections in-house to save us some of those monies for elections. So every turn, our administration here, the people who do day-to-day operations, are looking to save taxpayer money. So we don't take these millages or asking for money lightly. And that's what we can see here today, is that the Treasurer is thinking this is our best option and the best way moving forward, looking holistically. Our supervisor is looking holistically on what he believes is the best thing possible for our residents. And I think this is really great, because then we have two great proposals. At the end of the day, we have shown... a track record of doing the right thing regardless so i appreciate that so i thank you both for taking the time to do that and coming up with these ideas um i really appreciate you um supervisor trying to do the lowest interest burden possible to try to save taxpayers the most amount of

  47. As Supervisor, Supervisor McCready went to the county and was able to lobby to get some extra money from the county to help offset some of these sads. So again, constantly, whether it was $50,000 or $500,000 in some cases, we're always looking for ways to help our taxpayers with this shoulder of burden that a lot of our services have. When I look at the clerk, he reduced some of our voting districts and even did some of the elections in-house to save us some of those monies for elections. So every turn, our administration here, the people who do day-to-day operations, are looking to save taxpayer money. So we don't take these millages or asking for money lightly. And that's what we can see here today, is that the Treasurer is thinking this is our best option and the best way moving forward, looking holistically. Our supervisor is looking holistically on what he believes is the best thing possible for our residents. And I think this is really great, because then we have two great proposals. At the end of the day, we have shown... a track record of doing the right thing regardless so i appreciate that so i thank you both for taking the time to do that and coming up with these ideas um i really appreciate you um supervisor trying to do the lowest interest burden possible to try to save taxpayers the most amount of interest so you could have found ways to make it a 25-year bond and made that millage less so it looked like a bigger difference but you didn't because your goal was to make it as um fiscally prudent and cheapest for our residents so i appreciate that you could have tried to make the numbers work you didn't you try to do it the cheapest way not the cheapest way the most fiscally conservative way possible for our residents which is a testament to what you believe in um when i look at this i am more interested and more supportive at this time for doing a holistic approach when i look at the difference for taxpayers we're talking about on average twenty dollars when we look at what our strategic plan has asked for this checks a lot more of the boxes for what the residents have asked either proposal checks a lot of boxes this one just happens to check more for green space and it reduces the liability and uncertainty of our township hall but i think regardless which way our board goes this is going to address a lot of issues that have been kicked the can has been kicked down the road for many years but as board we've put ourselves

  48. trying to do the lowest interest burden possible to try to save taxpayers the most amount of interest so you could have found ways to make it a 25-year bond and made that millage less so it looked like a bigger difference but you didn't because your goal was to make it as um fiscally prudent and cheapest for our residents so i appreciate that you could have tried to make the numbers work you didn't you try to do it the cheapest way not the cheapest way the most fiscally conservative way possible for our residents which is a testament to what you believe in um when i look at this i am more interested and more supportive at this time for doing a holistic approach when i look at the difference for taxpayers we're talking about on average twenty dollars when we look at what our strategic plan has asked for this checks a lot more of the boxes for what the residents have asked either proposal checks a lot of boxes this one just happens to check more for green space and it reduces the liability and uncertainty of our township hall but i think regardless which way our board goes this is going to address a lot of issues that have been kicked the can has been kicked down the road for many years but as board we've put ourselves position that we can actually make this investment that's a testament to everybody who's been here everybody's been here for a few extra years including Neil over there but again it took a while for us to get here and now we're in a position where we can actually make that investment so I thank you both for that well Chris let me ask you a question have you talked to your residents about building a new town hall I have and what's the comments back like a lot of people when we make these investments even in their own home we know that's gonna be expensive so we want to do the construction one time and we know construction costs continue to go up so when I explain to them that the difference could be 25 to $30 on average which was my original numbers as you and this board have kind of sharpened that pencil throughout this six-month process we've talked about they said if we're gonna do it we should do it now because everything continues to go up their construction costs go up and they are seeing that a lot of them say they don't we don't want to have to spend the money but we see the need and this board has educated them on what our police is going through what our fire station looks like anybody who's been to town hall can kind of see some of that dysfunction that you've talked about where PBO isn't how Jim there and how the clerk's office is kind of jammed in and how we could

  49. position that we can actually make this investment that's a testament to everybody who's been here everybody's been here for a few extra years including Neil over there but again it took a while for us to get here and now we're in a position where we can actually make that investment so I thank you both for that well Chris let me ask you a question have you talked to your residents about building a new town hall I have and what's the comments back like a lot of people when we make these investments even in their own home we know that's gonna be expensive so we want to do the construction one time and we know construction costs continue to go up so when I explain to them that the difference could be 25 to $30 on average which was my original numbers as you and this board have kind of sharpened that pencil throughout this six-month process we've talked about they said if we're gonna do it we should do it now because everything continues to go up their construction costs go up and they are seeing that a lot of them say they don't we don't want to have to spend the money but we see the need and this board has educated them on what our police is going through what our fire station looks like anybody who's been to town hall can kind of see some of that dysfunction that you've talked about where PBO isn't how Jim there and how the clerk's office is kind of jammed in and how we could better utilize that space so almost everyone that I've met has been supportive they just want to make sure that whatever we do we're being fiscal stewards with their money which our board including yourself has always and that we're not wasting their money. Yeah, thank you both, Mike and Michael, for the presentations. They're both, I think, very good proposals, and they both meet the most important need that we have, which is our police department. Our police department is the primary need that we have to take care of. They don't have enough space. They don't meet the needs as far as attracting and taking care of our officers, having locker rooms for both men and women, and certainly having more conference rooms so they can speak to residents, whether it's domestic violence or sexual violence or whatever it is, so they have space rather than speaking to residents in the lobby, which I certainly observed a couple weeks ago after an unfortunate situation.

  50. Jim there and how the clerk's office is kind of jammed in and how we could better utilize that space so almost everyone that I've met has been supportive they just want to make sure that whatever we do we're being fiscal stewards with their money which our board including yourself has always and that we're not wasting their money. Yeah, thank you both, Mike and Michael, for the presentations. They're both, I think, very good proposals, and they both meet the most important need that we have, which is our police department. Our police department is the primary need that we have to take care of. They don't have enough space. They don't meet the needs as far as attracting and taking care of our officers, having locker rooms for both men and women, and certainly having more conference rooms so they can speak to residents, whether it's domestic violence or sexual violence or whatever it is, so they have space rather than speaking to residents in the lobby, which I certainly observed a couple weeks ago after an unfortunate situation. So there's no question. I think most of us, if not all of us, agree that the police department is in, has the paramount need as far as improving their facilities and to bring them up to the standards of 2026 and beyond. No question about fire station number three. It's certainly extremely busy. need to be engaged in which they sit and debe говорю. We'll open up this afternoon with a free food, there really are no ones situations to see us because of human violence or They go on more runs than anybody, and they're in a very busy, high-volume location with Maple and Telegraph, and the building is almost a joke. I mean, it's so small, and it really needs to be improved. We probably need another location, but whatever we need, we need to improve it. So I don't think there's any question about the needs both of police and fire. As far as Township Hall, I think it's a want, not to say that it's something that's not important. It certainly is. When we started this whole venture back in the winter, my thought was, well, we don't need to really tackle Township Hall at this time, just police and fire.

  51. which I certainly observed a couple weeks ago after an unfortunate situation. So there's no question. I think most of us, if not all of us, agree that the police department is in, has the paramount need as far as improving their facilities and to bring them up to the standards of 2026 and beyond. No question about fire station number three. It's certainly extremely busy. need to be engaged in which they sit and debe говорю. We'll open up this afternoon with a free food, there really are no ones situations to see us because of human violence or They go on more runs than anybody, and they're in a very busy, high-volume location with Maple and Telegraph, and the building is almost a joke. I mean, it's so small, and it really needs to be improved. We probably need another location, but whatever we need, we need to improve it. So I don't think there's any question about the needs both of police and fire. As far as Township Hall, I think it's a want, not to say that it's something that's not important. It certainly is. When we started this whole venture back in the winter, my thought was, well, we don't need to really tackle Township Hall at this time, just police and fire. But I will say, Michael, you've done a very nice job of looking at the numbers, trying to bring the numbers down, and come up with a plan that works or is more workable, let's put it that way. My concerns with Township Hall, which I've certainly verbalized before, has been if we are going to replace it, we have to make a strong case that in the long run we're saving the residents' money, whether it's through retrofitting, maintenance, long-term maintenance, construction. costs when you look at the whole picture are we and efficiency efficiency and service to our residents is it going to improve all of that if the case can be made that it is in fact improving efficiencies through departments for our residents for the services then that's something that I certainly believe needs consideration so again I'm I'm certainly open to both proposals and also the

  52. When we started this whole venture back in the winter, my thought was, well, we don't need to really tackle Township Hall at this time, just police and fire. But I will say, Michael, you've done a very nice job of looking at the numbers, trying to bring the numbers down, and come up with a plan that works or is more workable, let's put it that way. My concerns with Township Hall, which I've certainly verbalized before, has been if we are going to replace it, we have to make a strong case that in the long run we're saving the residents' money, whether it's through retrofitting, maintenance, long-term maintenance, construction. costs when you look at the whole picture are we and efficiency efficiency and service to our residents is it going to improve all of that if the case can be made that it is in fact improving efficiencies through departments for our residents for the services then that's something that I certainly believe needs consideration so again I'm I'm certainly open to both proposals and also the other part of the having the park as far as Michael's proposal I think is the grant that green space is very attractive I know most of us have certainly wanted a park this is I think the first one I've seen where the location is more ideal than the other ones that have been proposed so that's also a valuable consideration so thank you both so initially I was 100% on board with Michael's proposal because to renovate an old building and unknown maintenance and unfortunately for what's happened before we were here this campus is so chopped up if you visit other municipalities you see where they have a campus and and there's actually more of a flow or maybe a better thought process it seems like we've got all these pieces and parts of different departments in different buildings and so to to do it right and create you know one new building and the park is

  53. consideration so again I'm I'm certainly open to both proposals and also the other part of the having the park as far as Michael's proposal I think is the grant that green space is very attractive I know most of us have certainly wanted a park this is I think the first one I've seen where the location is more ideal than the other ones that have been proposed so that's also a valuable consideration so thank you both so initially I was 100% on board with Michael's proposal because to renovate an old building and unknown maintenance and unfortunately for what's happened before we were here this campus is so chopped up if you visit other municipalities you see where they have a campus and and there's actually more of a flow or maybe a better thought process it seems like we've got all these pieces and parts of different departments in different buildings and so to to do it right and create you know one new building and the park is extremely appealing to me and that's kind of where I've been however it does cost more money would put us in a better long-term position it gets us the park which I can't tell you how many residents have talked to me about the park it's very much an issue and it's very much needed in our community so I'm I'm really torn I don't think we can go totally wrong with either plan because I think bottom line we need to make the improvements for public safety fire station 3 and the police department way past time that we address that and that's my primary concern kind of like Chris with his wants and needs that's a need what concerns me the only twenty dollars or whatever average homeowner cost per year to me seems like it's worth it to go with the holistic approach that being said we just had an election where multiple of our neighboring communities did not pass millages some of what

  54. so to to do it right and create you know one new building and the park is extremely appealing to me and that's kind of where I've been however it does cost more money would put us in a better long-term position it gets us the park which I can't tell you how many residents have talked to me about the park it's very much an issue and it's very much needed in our community so I'm I'm really torn I don't think we can go totally wrong with either plan because I think bottom line we need to make the improvements for public safety fire station 3 and the police department way past time that we address that and that's my primary concern kind of like Chris with his wants and needs that's a need what concerns me the only twenty dollars or whatever average homeowner cost per year to me seems like it's worth it to go with the holistic approach that being said we just had an election where multiple of our neighboring communities did not pass millages some of what for police and some for fire. And our community has always been extremely supportive of police and fire. I hope it stays that way. But considering, I think it was eight communities, I can't remember when I've seen that before. And some of them are saying, well, come January 1st, we just don't have a fire department. As a resident, that would be extremely frightening and worrisome. And, you know, because they've waited till there isn't time to have another election in there. Not likely to try and bolster that and try and get it approved again. So I think the thought processes we put into this, the two plans, I could go either way. I like them both. I think we need to do one. But I'm a little bit torn as, you know, we've just invested like in this room. We've just put a lot of money in this room. So to bulldoze that personally hurts my feelings. But the big picture would be... Most of the money was technology, though, which would be transferable. A lot of it, yes. This is a resurfaced desk. That's true. And a lot of things could be taken over, like all the furniture. All the furniture we've done over at Cable and any of those things would be movable to their ultimate new location.

  55. for police and some for fire. And our community has always been extremely supportive of police and fire. I hope it stays that way. But considering, I think it was eight communities, I can't remember when I've seen that before. And some of them are saying, well, come January 1st, we just don't have a fire department. As a resident, that would be extremely frightening and worrisome. And, you know, because they've waited till there isn't time to have another election in there. Not likely to try and bolster that and try and get it approved again. So I think the thought processes we put into this, the two plans, I could go either way. I like them both. I think we need to do one. But I'm a little bit torn as, you know, we've just invested like in this room. We've just put a lot of money in this room. So to bulldoze that personally hurts my feelings. But the big picture would be... Most of the money was technology, though, which would be transferable. A lot of it, yes. This is a resurfaced desk. That's true. And a lot of things could be taken over, like all the furniture. All the furniture we've done over at Cable and any of those things would be movable to their ultimate new location. I love the idea of a bigger animal shelter. I think nobody here is surprised to hear that. I have... I have... five kittens at my house today uh felt like bringing one up but i know mike's allergic so you can go there thank you so that's where i'm at sort of torn right so let me ask you a question because you brought up some good points there let's say we went with this three-story building right now residents can come in on the first floor walk in and pay their taxes or the construction the permit people come in they go downstairs and pay very easy access in this building if you go into a three-story building how do you lay that out to have easy access for uh for the residents but also for pd to respond to calls that is a interesting question we have police chief gallagher here would you like to address that it's more of a facility design issue right right but just think about that that's a great question it's a great question so that's what i was thinking let's ask i think about um city of birmingham has two stories city of royal oak has three stories so there are other

  56. we've done over at Cable and any of those things would be movable to their ultimate new location. I love the idea of a bigger animal shelter. I think nobody here is surprised to hear that. I have... I have... five kittens at my house today uh felt like bringing one up but i know mike's allergic so you can go there thank you so that's where i'm at sort of torn right so let me ask you a question because you brought up some good points there let's say we went with this three-story building right now residents can come in on the first floor walk in and pay their taxes or the construction the permit people come in they go downstairs and pay very easy access in this building if you go into a three-story building how do you lay that out to have easy access for uh for the residents but also for pd to respond to calls that is a interesting question we have police chief gallagher here would you like to address that it's more of a facility design issue right right but just think about that that's a great question it's a great question so that's what i was thinking let's ask i think about um city of birmingham has two stories city of royal oak has three stories so there are other buildings and um there are experts that can help lay that out and then since our building was kind of copped together i think when our police chief designs this building whether it's a police station only or a police station and town hall they'd be looking at ways to mitigate um danger areas and or issues for our not only our residents but also all staff i think that'd be part of his architecture and his planning regardless which you Building we approached because whether it's a three-story town hall or a two-story police station There's still gonna be people moving around Have you ever been to our state capitol recently? I have not had the privilege It's a pretty good shape really well taken care of I'd say we take good care of our building just saying that building is 147 years old No, I have definitely been in that building just a few years ago Yeah, and we've maintained this building. I think at the same level and we would continue to maintain it And it'd be a lot less than the additional 15 to 30 million dollars And granted you have to replace HVAC systems you have some imbalances

  57. about um city of birmingham has two stories city of royal oak has three stories so there are other buildings and um there are experts that can help lay that out and then since our building was kind of copped together i think when our police chief designs this building whether it's a police station only or a police station and town hall they'd be looking at ways to mitigate um danger areas and or issues for our not only our residents but also all staff i think that'd be part of his architecture and his planning regardless which you Building we approached because whether it's a three-story town hall or a two-story police station There's still gonna be people moving around Have you ever been to our state capitol recently? I have not had the privilege It's a pretty good shape really well taken care of I'd say we take good care of our building just saying that building is 147 years old No, I have definitely been in that building just a few years ago Yeah, and we've maintained this building. I think at the same level and we would continue to maintain it And it'd be a lot less than the additional 15 to 30 million dollars And granted you have to replace HVAC systems you have some imbalances Look at I mean, we just redid this room We we did build outs downstairs very easy access for our residents right now Yeah, I'm I guess I'm more concerned about I would think designers would excuse me help us Oh sure make the best choices, but police and our fire station That's our ultimate not got to be most convenient for And that's our need and that's what we should be focused top priority, and that's what we should be focusing on Well, I'll just throw out there that redstone you Did provide a three-story diagram as part of their sub their study when they provided those cost estimates I have it here if anyone wants to look at it and Noah has already come up with between six and ten million dollars in upgrades and Repairs that would need to happen to this building over the next 10 to 15 years So if you're talking about a difference between 15 million dollars on one hand six to ten million dollars to upkeep this building

  58. Look at I mean, we just redid this room We we did build outs downstairs very easy access for our residents right now Yeah, I'm I guess I'm more concerned about I would think designers would excuse me help us Oh sure make the best choices, but police and our fire station That's our ultimate not got to be most convenient for And that's our need and that's what we should be focused top priority, and that's what we should be focusing on Well, I'll just throw out there that redstone you Did provide a three-story diagram as part of their sub their study when they provided those cost estimates I have it here if anyone wants to look at it and Noah has already come up with between six and ten million dollars in upgrades and Repairs that would need to happen to this building over the next 10 to 15 years So if you're talking about a difference between 15 million dollars on one hand six to ten million dollars to upkeep this building Well, actually, I think he did it over 20 years and he put together six six point seven million over 20 years And of that six point seven million he put a two million dollar figure of miscellaneous So I think it was done not in the best interest that we should have to be accurate But there were some points in there I think he did made about some windows being changed out But these are all keeping your building up which we've done here for years This is a good building. It's been kept up The problem we're having here is we have too many people in this building and And our and by moving PD out we finally get the room that we need to expand and PD then can keep up Recruit people have lockers and facilities for men and women have proper lockup facilities and keep up with the changing environment of chasing down the criminal whether it's out on the street or You know trying to get get to senior citizens and that's one of the biggest concerns that we have today you know what's what's the priority and our priority are our residents and taking care of our residents well and the fire department responding to i know all too well about that oh absolutely i i think that's the priority of both proposals is public safety and both proposals have addresses what's

  59. Well, actually, I think he did it over 20 years and he put together six six point seven million over 20 years And of that six point seven million he put a two million dollar figure of miscellaneous So I think it was done not in the best interest that we should have to be accurate But there were some points in there I think he did made about some windows being changed out But these are all keeping your building up which we've done here for years This is a good building. It's been kept up The problem we're having here is we have too many people in this building and And our and by moving PD out we finally get the room that we need to expand and PD then can keep up Recruit people have lockers and facilities for men and women have proper lockup facilities and keep up with the changing environment of chasing down the criminal whether it's out on the street or You know trying to get get to senior citizens and that's one of the biggest concerns that we have today you know what's what's the priority and our priority are our residents and taking care of our residents well and the fire department responding to i know all too well about that oh absolutely i i think that's the priority of both proposals is public safety and both proposals have addresses what's left with you know when police leave and have their own building if that were to be supported by the residents we either you know invest additional dollars and put town hall with them or we invest additional dollars and retrofit existing town hall so both proposals focus on public safety and both proposals have to address what's sort of what's left of us but when you talk about retrofitting we're really only talking about one area which is the jail cell area right when you talk about retrofitting are you thinking about different retrofitting in some different areas here i think that there's there's um well you've identified that the most important which is building planning ordinance which which touches more residents than really almost anybody it's really big and defining and defining finance department and defining the hr department additional space for clerk requirements and then bringing the clerks in together and bringing communications over here all those things i think so it it's it's not a little project it's it's a it's but it's completely doable that's absolutely right i mean the space here that would be created by the police

  60. that's the priority of both proposals is public safety and both proposals have addresses what's left with you know when police leave and have their own building if that were to be supported by the residents we either you know invest additional dollars and put town hall with them or we invest additional dollars and retrofit existing town hall so both proposals focus on public safety and both proposals have to address what's sort of what's left of us but when you talk about retrofitting we're really only talking about one area which is the jail cell area right when you talk about retrofitting are you thinking about different retrofitting in some different areas here i think that there's there's um well you've identified that the most important which is building planning ordinance which which touches more residents than really almost anybody it's really big and defining and defining finance department and defining the hr department additional space for clerk requirements and then bringing the clerks in together and bringing communications over here all those things i think so it it's it's not a little project it's it's a it's but it's completely doable that's absolutely right i mean the space here that would be created by the police department being in its own building is absolutely sufficient to cover all of those those issues IT is in two different areas you know maybe they they want IT in its other area for because they do service a bunch of people on the other side of you know the other buildings but yeah so either way we're looking at a public safety focus proposal that also has a component to address town hall one is and it you know to make included in the construction we're doing and there's some advantages to that you know but I like we've talked about but you know having command and elected officials together EOC together I mean those are good things I think it does overall will have a smaller ongoing maintenance costs to have one building versus two how much that is or when when that break-even point is I don't know we don't know I mean it you know you made a point of that I know I put in two million because he I think he recognized it's not because he's trying to pad it in any way but he recognizes that it's unpredictable well we're still trying to work on getting numbers of what it costs us every year to operate this building and those are really the basis that we need to use going forward it's not accounted the accounting doesn't

  61. department being in its own building is absolutely sufficient to cover all of those those issues IT is in two different areas you know maybe they they want IT in its other area for because they do service a bunch of people on the other side of you know the other buildings but yeah so either way we're looking at a public safety focus proposal that also has a component to address town hall one is and it you know to make included in the construction we're doing and there's some advantages to that you know but I like we've talked about but you know having command and elected officials together EOC together I mean those are good things I think it does overall will have a smaller ongoing maintenance costs to have one building versus two how much that is or when when that break-even point is I don't know we don't know I mean it you know you made a point of that I know I put in two million because he I think he recognized it's not because he's trying to pad it in any way but he recognizes that it's unpredictable well we're still trying to work on getting numbers of what it costs us every year to operate this building and those are really the basis that we need to use going forward it's not accounted the accounting doesn't doesn't address it building by building it's more maintenance and then it's so we've asked for that I don't believe it's right but I think it's something that we have to work on it's something we have to work on to define it because it's that we have to work on to define it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we the future versus looking at the past you have to have a combination I would love to have that past number but I think we've been told we can't get it I think we will get it it's just a matter of working on and we also have you know fire station fired in the next building over we have DPW in another building we have senior services in another building right it's kind of a practice we have it is we're such a close campus well and that's true and your point about you know you go to the senior center you walk in and you're there and go to the fire department you walk in and you're very convenient for residents and we're an aging community yeah I mean so with building and planning ordinance they move to the police department they'll still have their own separate entrance and I you know and that's a great that's important part of the accessibility you've mentioned but then again if you don't go in there regularly I'm sure for

  62. that we need to use going forward it's not accounted the accounting doesn't doesn't address it building by building it's more maintenance and then it's so we've asked for that I don't believe it's right but I think it's something that we have to work on it's something we have to work on to define it because it's that we have to work on to define it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we have to work on it and we the future versus looking at the past you have to have a combination I would love to have that past number but I think we've been told we can't get it I think we will get it it's just a matter of working on and we also have you know fire station fired in the next building over we have DPW in another building we have senior services in another building right it's kind of a practice we have it is we're such a close campus well and that's true and your point about you know you go to the senior center you walk in and you're there and go to the fire department you walk in and you're very convenient for residents and we're an aging community yeah I mean so with building and planning ordinance they move to the police department they'll still have their own separate entrance and I you know and that's a great that's important part of the accessibility you've mentioned but then again if you don't go in there regularly I'm sure for builders and homeowners that have active projects but I have to tell you we've lived here 40 years we've done multiple projects but we were just here and my husband did not know my own husband did not know that we could go in down there you know so I think a lot of people probably come in the front door and then go looking for it yeah most people do and then they get guided to whatever department they need to go to whether it's the clerk's office the treasurer the assessor right pbo but that downstairs location is extremely handy um if you know about it but well all the contractors know where to go how to get there right and they're the ones that are waiting here seven a.m yeah you know usually the residents come in later in the day into the evening hours but it's it is awfully um that is awfully convenient i will say if they have to be in the lower level that you can just walk in right yeah right now there's no space for residents or contractors to collaborate with the building officials there's no space to lay out a plan and really look at it it's really just that inhibits the free flow of communications and ideas between them and efficiency for the projects that residents have which are which are numerous every single year um unlike when uhy was in here doing their audit which they come in every year for what

  63. you've mentioned but then again if you don't go in there regularly I'm sure for builders and homeowners that have active projects but I have to tell you we've lived here 40 years we've done multiple projects but we were just here and my husband did not know my own husband did not know that we could go in down there you know so I think a lot of people probably come in the front door and then go looking for it yeah most people do and then they get guided to whatever department they need to go to whether it's the clerk's office the treasurer the assessor right pbo but that downstairs location is extremely handy um if you know about it but well all the contractors know where to go how to get there right and they're the ones that are waiting here seven a.m yeah you know usually the residents come in later in the day into the evening hours but it's it is awfully um that is awfully convenient i will say if they have to be in the lower level that you can just walk in right yeah right now there's no space for residents or contractors to collaborate with the building officials there's no space to lay out a plan and really look at it it's really just that inhibits the free flow of communications and ideas between them and efficiency for the projects that residents have which are which are numerous every single year um unlike when uhy was in here doing their audit which they come in every year for what three weeks right they use the main conference room which locks us out of conference room so we either go to the fire department or we go down to um senior center the fire department has a nice conference room i've been in there yeah they do but just shows you how limited we've been how jammed in here people have been and this is an opportunity to finally expand right a couple things that just more statements if you don't mind to create meaningful discussion um noah brought up around seven to anywhere from 6.7 to 10 million but let's go with the 6.7 number of just known maintenance items on this building versus a brand new building which is about million dollar difference so that's what some of the difference we're talking about here so having some unknown versus known and how we as a board and future boards want to be able to maintain that that that's one thing I'm you know when we talk about those numbers the other one is a lot of our residents do go down to PBO but they don't realize there is that walkway so they have to go down steps or they have to go into the supervisors area to use the elevator so our building really isn't set up great for some of our aging residents we do have one of the oldest populations in Oakland County as a whole so when we

  64. single year um unlike when uhy was in here doing their audit which they come in every year for what three weeks right they use the main conference room which locks us out of conference room so we either go to the fire department or we go down to um senior center the fire department has a nice conference room i've been in there yeah they do but just shows you how limited we've been how jammed in here people have been and this is an opportunity to finally expand right a couple things that just more statements if you don't mind to create meaningful discussion um noah brought up around seven to anywhere from 6.7 to 10 million but let's go with the 6.7 number of just known maintenance items on this building versus a brand new building which is about million dollar difference so that's what some of the difference we're talking about here so having some unknown versus known and how we as a board and future boards want to be able to maintain that that that's one thing I'm you know when we talk about those numbers the other one is a lot of our residents do go down to PBO but they don't realize there is that walkway so they have to go down steps or they have to go into the supervisors area to use the elevator so our building really isn't set up great for some of our aging residents we do have one of the oldest populations in Oakland County as a whole so when we build this new building we can take into account how those residents will utilize the space and make sure that we design it in residence at the forefront of our thoughts right now this building is kind of three buildings put together it doesn't necessarily function the best we have made do and as you said to rise McCready we have done the best with what we have and we have maintained it to a high level it doesn't mean that we can't be better so again the stairway going down I know residents who have physical disabilities that is hard they have to go the different way and again I'm a contractor I didn't know was there until I became a township trustee that there was another entrance just because I always come to stairs but I don't have that same need or disadvantage that some other people have so wanting to think about all our residents that new building will address that need so i want to thank uh supervisor mccready for his comment on the entrances i think that's very insightful it was consistent with uh concerns raised by chief gallagher when he gave me his tour

  65. have one of the oldest populations in Oakland County as a whole so when we build this new building we can take into account how those residents will utilize the space and make sure that we design it in residence at the forefront of our thoughts right now this building is kind of three buildings put together it doesn't necessarily function the best we have made do and as you said to rise McCready we have done the best with what we have and we have maintained it to a high level it doesn't mean that we can't be better so again the stairway going down I know residents who have physical disabilities that is hard they have to go the different way and again I'm a contractor I didn't know was there until I became a township trustee that there was another entrance just because I always come to stairs but I don't have that same need or disadvantage that some other people have so wanting to think about all our residents that new building will address that need so i want to thank uh supervisor mccready for his comment on the entrances i think that's very insightful it was consistent with uh concerns raised by chief gallagher when he gave me his tour and um on a privacy side uh sometimes when there are personal issues that you want to address with police staff seeing people that are here for building permits and whatnot seeing you go in it's uh it can be a little bit embarrassing when there's nothing wrong so on that note i want to thank you for making that comment i do believe the police department does need a new facility um my number one concern is the uh the debt millage and uh the township has set aside prudently set aside 30 million dollars over six years that's five million a year on average so i don't see the need to go out for a bond debt millage um for three million a year i think it's a little bit excessive based on the township's performance can you expound on that a little bit at the end there

  66. insightful it was consistent with uh concerns raised by chief gallagher when he gave me his tour and um on a privacy side uh sometimes when there are personal issues that you want to address with police staff seeing people that are here for building permits and whatnot seeing you go in it's uh it can be a little bit embarrassing when there's nothing wrong so on that note i want to thank you for making that comment i do believe the police department does need a new facility um my number one concern is the uh the debt millage and uh the township has set aside prudently set aside 30 million dollars over six years that's five million a year on average so i don't see the need to go out for a bond debt millage um for three million a year i think it's a little bit excessive based on the township's performance can you expound on that a little bit at the end there 60 million divided by six is 5 million um treasurer show stack mentioned uh the bond debt millage for the more expensive project would bring in about 3 million a year and if that's so 5 million versus 3 million that seems like you have some room and uh therefore i believe it's excessive oh i see okay so i just don't think that there we our budgets project now to that the 5 million we were able to accumulate per year or 30 million total won't continue um that we will have a surplus this year but i think the projection is that that's not going to continue i mean otherwise that would be a great source of funds i mean that's a very good point but um it's been considered and the the cash flow isn't there you know any longer maybe that's what you're getting at martin some of our our bonds are going to be falling off in the next few years um dpw and certainly uh the pension costs are going to be going down uh so there's additional sources on the senior centers coming yeah that's part of the capital improvement yeah with the campus and senior center the campus yeah so so mark i appreciate the thought about trying to find a way to internally bond which is what other

  67. 60 million divided by six is 5 million um treasurer show stack mentioned uh the bond debt millage for the more expensive project would bring in about 3 million a year and if that's so 5 million versus 3 million that seems like you have some room and uh therefore i believe it's excessive oh i see okay so i just don't think that there we our budgets project now to that the 5 million we were able to accumulate per year or 30 million total won't continue um that we will have a surplus this year but i think the projection is that that's not going to continue i mean otherwise that would be a great source of funds i mean that's a very good point but um it's been considered and the the cash flow isn't there you know any longer maybe that's what you're getting at martin some of our our bonds are going to be falling off in the next few years um dpw and certainly uh the pension costs are going to be going down uh so there's additional sources on the senior centers coming yeah that's part of the capital improvement yeah with the campus and senior center the campus yeah so so mark i appreciate the thought about trying to find a way to internally bond which is what other communities have done with some of these um projects um i believe maybe we kind of didn't kind of not glossed over but the money that was at 30 million dollars that have been so you created by this board and passports were a result of interest um earnings going up significantly which again were tied to interest rates rising also on negotiation of contracts that were done for five and six year contracts so there were savings there and then um the big one was the township going um self-insured in 2020 so those three things happened right at a time where we were able to kind of save some money and be financially frugal during those times but as we've had to um reposition with contracts that attract the best employees and as this board has done made investments in both our facilities our people and at times our roads that's where some of those extra monies in the future are going so i don't i don't believe it um we only go out one year on a budget so if those documents are available some communities go out three years some go out five years but we don't have that information so if it is available then the township

  68. so so mark i appreciate the thought about trying to find a way to internally bond which is what other communities have done with some of these um projects um i believe maybe we kind of didn't kind of not glossed over but the money that was at 30 million dollars that have been so you created by this board and passports were a result of interest um earnings going up significantly which again were tied to interest rates rising also on negotiation of contracts that were done for five and six year contracts so there were savings there and then um the big one was the township going um self-insured in 2020 so those three things happened right at a time where we were able to kind of save some money and be financially frugal during those times but as we've had to um reposition with contracts that attract the best employees and as this board has done made investments in both our facilities our people and at times our roads that's where some of those extra monies in the future are going so i don't i don't believe it um we only go out one year on a budget so if those documents are available some communities go out three years some go out five years but we don't have that information so if it is available then the township should make it available to everyone well i think it it speaks to the um the stewardship or the fiscal responsibility of this board that we and our treasurer who has done an amazing job with our investments renegotiating bonds and you know securing better interest rates when interest were a little higher that we created that equipment and replacement fund that's a really sizable investment that we've set aside because we knew there were going to be some things coming and I think it was you know really responsible and I think that will help a lot either proposal very much needed and both are very expensive that's kind of where we're at but we need to do one or the other because it's way past time to take care of the fire station and the police station

  69. some go out five years but we don't have that information so if it is available then the township should make it available to everyone well i think it it speaks to the um the stewardship or the fiscal responsibility of this board that we and our treasurer who has done an amazing job with our investments renegotiating bonds and you know securing better interest rates when interest were a little higher that we created that equipment and replacement fund that's a really sizable investment that we've set aside because we knew there were going to be some things coming and I think it was you know really responsible and I think that will help a lot either proposal very much needed and both are very expensive that's kind of where we're at but we need to do one or the other because it's way past time to take care of the fire station and the police station and then I just want to point out if and trust supervisor McCready's proposal which again he's going right off of redstone he didn't come up with these numbers he didn't you know whatever the experts said at the time shows six hundred fifty dollars a square foot which comes out to that 39 million dollars for the public safety building if we went with the updated numbers that supervisor I'm sorry treasurer show stack was coming up with it would add another twelve million dollars just to public safety if we went from 650 square six hundred dollars a square foot two hundred dollars square foot so I mean now we're talking twelve million dollars which continues to bridge that gap between the two and again it's not that either proposal is using different numbers are trying that they have different experts that they utilizing to their proposal. Well, and I don't recall ever seeing Smith Group numbers. I remember seeing a schematic of a plan, but I don't remember ever seeing a numbers breakdown from Smith Group like we received from Redstone. We need to have it tonight to look at it so we can compare it. Which is a fair thing, right? Like you're going off of, this is how you're doing your number and that. So if we did Treasurer Sosak's number, which was reducing it to $6.50, the savings would be significant.

  70. and then I just want to point out if and trust supervisor McCready's proposal which again he's going right off of redstone he didn't come up with these numbers he didn't you know whatever the experts said at the time shows six hundred fifty dollars a square foot which comes out to that 39 million dollars for the public safety building if we went with the updated numbers that supervisor I'm sorry treasurer show stack was coming up with it would add another twelve million dollars just to public safety if we went from 650 square six hundred dollars a square foot two hundred dollars square foot so I mean now we're talking twelve million dollars which continues to bridge that gap between the two and again it's not that either proposal is using different numbers are trying that they have different experts that they utilizing to their proposal. Well, and I don't recall ever seeing Smith Group numbers. I remember seeing a schematic of a plan, but I don't remember ever seeing a numbers breakdown from Smith Group like we received from Redstone. We need to have it tonight to look at it so we can compare it. Which is a fair thing, right? Like you're going off of, this is how you're doing your number and that. So if we did Treasurer Sosak's number, which was reducing it to $6.50, the savings would be significant. Right, because the Redstone proposal is older and at the end of the day, whichever proposal we go with, the cost is gonna be the cost per square foot. So it isn't that, you know, Michael's is gonna cost more per square foot and yours is gonna cost less. But it's gonna cost more to add a town hall. It is. And that's, I think, what we haven't really determined, how much extra that would cost, both immediately and then long-term, when we already have a town hall that's paid for and has been maintained at a very high standard. I just can't vote for another town hall when we have this town hall, and we need to focus on our needs, not our wants. We may want a new town hall, but we need to talk about what's most important to our community and ourselves, which is public safety and a fire station. Well, and we do have multiple things going. and this is epic não can be. here the fire station and the police station and those are our top concerns that's right well in both proposals we have more than that we have police station fire station and animal shelter and then upgrades the town hall so we are touching all those other things so again as I've said and supervisor

  71. the savings would be significant. Right, because the Redstone proposal is older and at the end of the day, whichever proposal we go with, the cost is gonna be the cost per square foot. So it isn't that, you know, Michael's is gonna cost more per square foot and yours is gonna cost less. But it's gonna cost more to add a town hall. It is. And that's, I think, what we haven't really determined, how much extra that would cost, both immediately and then long-term, when we already have a town hall that's paid for and has been maintained at a very high standard. I just can't vote for another town hall when we have this town hall, and we need to focus on our needs, not our wants. We may want a new town hall, but we need to talk about what's most important to our community and ourselves, which is public safety and a fire station. Well, and we do have multiple things going. and this is epic não can be. here the fire station and the police station and those are our top concerns that's right well in both proposals we have more than that we have police station fire station and animal shelter and then upgrades the town hall so we are touching all those other things so again as I've said and supervisor McCready continues to say there are needs and wants but we're touching everything in each proposal it is where we want to make this investment now we make this investment now or is that investment gonna be something in the future so well I'll just add that you know I definitely understand the description of needs versus wants the compelling point for me on this is that in the long run it is more financially in the best interest of the township to move into one building rather than operate out of two buildings because you've got to have the additional costs and now two buildings plus this being an older building the extra cost of that and yeah ideally you know if this were a newer building it wouldn't be an issue but it's the unknown cost of this building in the long run ten years from now it's gonna be a hundred year old building and it's it's well I think there is some weight to that no doubt but if you're adding 30,000 square feet to a new building you're going to be paying to maintain that additional 30,000 square feet

  72. are touching all those other things so again as I've said and supervisor McCready continues to say there are needs and wants but we're touching everything in each proposal it is where we want to make this investment now we make this investment now or is that investment gonna be something in the future so well I'll just add that you know I definitely understand the description of needs versus wants the compelling point for me on this is that in the long run it is more financially in the best interest of the township to move into one building rather than operate out of two buildings because you've got to have the additional costs and now two buildings plus this being an older building the extra cost of that and yeah ideally you know if this were a newer building it wouldn't be an issue but it's the unknown cost of this building in the long run ten years from now it's gonna be a hundred year old building and it's it's well I think there is some weight to that no doubt but if you're adding 30,000 square feet to a new building you're going to be paying to maintain that additional 30,000 square feet Well, my proposal only adds another 18,000 or 19,000 square feet. But we really need around 30,000 square feet to handle our different departments. I mean, we're jammed in at 35,000 square feet. Once PD moves out, we're going to refill this 90% to 95%. And you've all walked around to see how it is. Yeah, I guess I'm confused between that this building would be, was it 40% empty? Right, considering that we have these other needs for the spaces. Right. And if we move the cable station over here, which I think would be great, that's going to take quite a lot of the space that gets vacated by the police department. I guess I don't see. Well, there's four people in communications plus a little studio, right? Right. And we could take, and Michael budgeted and I figured a million dollars for that to make it the animal shelter. With green space for the dogs to run plus a dog park. It gets it further away from, maybe. Telegraph Road. Telegraph. Right, from Telegraph Road. That's right. But you can't cut short what we need for general office space. And if you walk into each department, we are so on top of each other.

  73. Well, my proposal only adds another 18,000 or 19,000 square feet. But we really need around 30,000 square feet to handle our different departments. I mean, we're jammed in at 35,000 square feet. Once PD moves out, we're going to refill this 90% to 95%. And you've all walked around to see how it is. Yeah, I guess I'm confused between that this building would be, was it 40% empty? Right, considering that we have these other needs for the spaces. Right. And if we move the cable station over here, which I think would be great, that's going to take quite a lot of the space that gets vacated by the police department. I guess I don't see. Well, there's four people in communications plus a little studio, right? Right. And we could take, and Michael budgeted and I figured a million dollars for that to make it the animal shelter. With green space for the dogs to run plus a dog park. It gets it further away from, maybe. Telegraph Road. Telegraph. Right, from Telegraph Road. That's right. But you can't cut short what we need for general office space. And if you walk into each department, we are so on top of each other. And even when I was trying to get space for HR director, Martin was the best when he said, you can't take space for me. I'll chain myself to my office before I allow you to. take any space. That's true. But he gave us space, so thank you. But he did. Thank you. But that takes away space that he needs for his department and today's standards. We all need to run an election. Well, we definitely need to run an election and we definitely need an HR person to have a space and we need a lactation room, which we still can't seem to find. I mean, we'd have another five to seven thousand up here and then there's seventeen thousand downstairs. You give planning a building another two thousand. You bring over a cable. That's about four thousand. That still leaves eleven thousand and a lot of that space is going to be very expensive to repurpose. Well, that's the point. We're not. We're not. That's not. I don't agree with that. Playing PBO need about two and a half times the amount of space that they have. They are so jammed in. I don't know if you saw that one inspector that had just a little desk that they sat at. And they need more conference room space. And they need conference room space, right? But really, the only real purpose thing, Michael, that I would tell you I agree with is in the, in where the, when the prisoner comes in, the sally port and the jail cells. That would be the one area that we'd have to really repurpose. The rest of it, I don't see moving any walls. I mean, Jimmy has workstations already set up there where the detectives are. And we're the command staff now. He just built in some drywall, private offices, and there's a counter there.

  74. And if you walk into each department, we are so on top of each other. And even when I was trying to get space for HR director, Martin was the best when he said, you can't take space for me. I'll chain myself to my office before I allow you to. take any space. That's true. But he gave us space, so thank you. But he did. Thank you. But that takes away space that he needs for his department and today's standards. We all need to run an election. Well, we definitely need to run an election and we definitely need an HR person to have a space and we need a lactation room, which we still can't seem to find. I mean, we'd have another five to seven thousand up here and then there's seventeen thousand downstairs. You give planning a building another two thousand. You bring over a cable. That's about four thousand. That still leaves eleven thousand and a lot of that space is going to be very expensive to repurpose. Well, that's the point. We're not. We're not. That's not. I don't agree with that. Playing PBO need about two and a half times the amount of space that they have. They are so jammed in. I don't know if you saw that one inspector that had just a little desk that they sat at. And they need more conference room space. And they need conference room space, right? But really, the only real purpose thing, Michael, that I would tell you I agree with is in the, in where the, when the prisoner comes in, the sally port and the jail cells. That would be the one area that we'd have to really repurpose. The rest of it, I don't see moving any walls. I mean, Jimmy has workstations already set up there where the detectives are. And we're the command staff now. He just built in some drywall, private offices, and there's a counter there. And one thing we don't have. PBO that we have is if there was an emergency down there, we really don't have both two ways in and out. This will allow us now to have two way in and out. Oh, through the police side. Through the police side. And then I think someone mentioned about the elevator. The elevator that we have now is restricted to PD use only. So unless you have clearance through police, you can't use that elevator. So that would open up to allow to use for general public as well. That's huge. There's also about 6,000 square feet of locker rooms and showers and things like that. Right. That would need to be repurposed. What about you have the weight room that the police use that will also be moved out of the public safety building?

  75. more conference room space. And they need conference room space, right? But really, the only real purpose thing, Michael, that I would tell you I agree with is in the, in where the, when the prisoner comes in, the sally port and the jail cells. That would be the one area that we'd have to really repurpose. The rest of it, I don't see moving any walls. I mean, Jimmy has workstations already set up there where the detectives are. And we're the command staff now. He just built in some drywall, private offices, and there's a counter there. And one thing we don't have. PBO that we have is if there was an emergency down there, we really don't have both two ways in and out. This will allow us now to have two way in and out. Oh, through the police side. Through the police side. And then I think someone mentioned about the elevator. The elevator that we have now is restricted to PD use only. So unless you have clearance through police, you can't use that elevator. So that would open up to allow to use for general public as well. That's huge. There's also about 6,000 square feet of locker rooms and showers and things like that. Right. That would need to be repurposed. What about you have the weight room that the police use that will also be moved out of the public safety building? That's over in DPW. Yeah. And then you also have the shooting range. Will we keep that or will that be new? Well, for now, Oakland County is developing a new training center. And they're probably going to have, are they going to have a range there, Chief? Right. I think that's one of the things. Oh, I thought they said that they were building something that all the departments could use. Yeah. The Oakland County Sheriff's Department has their range in the basement of their jail area. And that's staying put, that's, that's their facility range. The training facility there is replacing the Brandon facility. MIT... which is where we do all our active shooter response or where they do their active shooter response training um and oak tack we then use that as well for some of the new higher active shooter response in addition to our own um that we do on on site so our current building we have the range was actually chief bowden was here the other day and i kind of asked him how did our range end up here it's when they built uh when they tore down the um back garages if you remember correctly the garages maintenance garages were um where the salt dome kind of is run ran

  76. the public safety building? That's over in DPW. Yeah. And then you also have the shooting range. Will we keep that or will that be new? Well, for now, Oakland County is developing a new training center. And they're probably going to have, are they going to have a range there, Chief? Right. I think that's one of the things. Oh, I thought they said that they were building something that all the departments could use. Yeah. The Oakland County Sheriff's Department has their range in the basement of their jail area. And that's staying put, that's, that's their facility range. The training facility there is replacing the Brandon facility. MIT... which is where we do all our active shooter response or where they do their active shooter response training um and oak tack we then use that as well for some of the new higher active shooter response in addition to our own um that we do on on site so our current building we have the range was actually chief bowden was here the other day and i kind of asked him how did our range end up here it's when they built uh when they tore down the um back garages if you remember correctly the garages maintenance garages were um where the salt dome kind of is run ran north and south where the salt dome was our range was on the back side of that so in order to do that they had to demo our range and the only place they could put it was there he said it was it's been a problem from day one they argued about doing that uh in 0706 when they were planning um because they knew it was going to be a problem with the offices above um and now that's our current problem today our current range is obsolete um when i say obsolete the equipment uh the company went out of business we're literally buying parts on ebay now um so there would be some considerations down there i don't know what you could do with that space but the range is something that would have to be um discussed or somehow you know during this process um one of those things so does the new do the new building proposals include a range i thought that that new building did not include a range okay no that's where the whole conversation came up with the training grounds up at uh um golf drive was what that's what spearheaded that conversation there and that again that was not our proposal there are options at the new building I'll give you an example East Point PD is currently in the process of building a new police department I think they broke ground here in the last month or two and they're building a range on

  77. remember correctly the garages maintenance garages were um where the salt dome kind of is run ran north and south where the salt dome was our range was on the back side of that so in order to do that they had to demo our range and the only place they could put it was there he said it was it's been a problem from day one they argued about doing that uh in 0706 when they were planning um because they knew it was going to be a problem with the offices above um and now that's our current problem today our current range is obsolete um when i say obsolete the equipment uh the company went out of business we're literally buying parts on ebay now um so there would be some considerations down there i don't know what you could do with that space but the range is something that would have to be um discussed or somehow you know during this process um one of those things so does the new do the new building proposals include a range i thought that that new building did not include a range okay no that's where the whole conversation came up with the training grounds up at uh um golf drive was what that's what spearheaded that conversation there and that again that was not our proposal there are options at the new building I'll give you an example East Point PD is currently in the process of building a new police department I think they broke ground here in the last month or two and they're building a range on their property and I think the cost of ended up being only 1.4 million and so it's gonna be in the parking lot kind of kind of odd but I think there's options but again until we get an architect in here to say you know maybe if it's a police only building and if we're doing lower level ground underground parking is there an opportunity to take away some of those parking spaces and put a range you know below ground and there's a lot of money involved with underground parking right now yeah and again that's that was the I don't know which proposal that was redstone I can't remember between the deck and the undergrounds the deck was 3.5 or 3.9 and the underground was six over six million yeah what about the I mean I know we can't force the issue but PB I was only in there Monday through Thursday 7 a.m. to 5 30 p.m. and police officers work 12-hour shifts seven days a week I don't know how many hours a week or hours a month that's used but is there a way to shift the hours of use because it after 5 30 p.m. we already have other than our base

  78. broke ground here in the last month or two and they're building a range on their property and I think the cost of ended up being only 1.4 million and so it's gonna be in the parking lot kind of kind of odd but I think there's options but again until we get an architect in here to say you know maybe if it's a police only building and if we're doing lower level ground underground parking is there an opportunity to take away some of those parking spaces and put a range you know below ground and there's a lot of money involved with underground parking right now yeah and again that's that was the I don't know which proposal that was redstone I can't remember between the deck and the undergrounds the deck was 3.5 or 3.9 and the underground was six over six million yeah what about the I mean I know we can't force the issue but PB I was only in there Monday through Thursday 7 a.m. to 5 30 p.m. and police officers work 12-hour shifts seven days a week I don't know how many hours a week or hours a month that's used but is there a way to shift the hours of use because it after 5 30 p.m. we already have other than our base qualifications supervisor McCready had us approved us to add some for our training when we use our rifles etc down there I'm doing some suppressive type you know just fire muffled up but but I have some significant safety concerns in the upstairs that I won't get into in a public forum for those employees over there that I we have altered those times the problem is as again when we talk about the youth of our organization you know we're in there a lot more now our accreditation we qualify quarterly but that's not enough time down at a range and so we have moved it to weekends Friday we allowed certainly allowed some of our partnership SWAT teams to train in there as well so we've put a stop to all that or it becomes an overtime issue really yeah that's right overtime issues which then over long term is cost costs and just getting in half an hour before after you get off through shift or before you go in you get in early it's enough to keep them sharp and accurate and if you don't get that time because DPW is there then that's yeah you're a hundred percent right on that there's there's

  79. qualifications supervisor McCready had us approved us to add some for our training when we use our rifles etc down there I'm doing some suppressive type you know just fire muffled up but but I have some significant safety concerns in the upstairs that I won't get into in a public forum for those employees over there that I we have altered those times the problem is as again when we talk about the youth of our organization you know we're in there a lot more now our accreditation we qualify quarterly but that's not enough time down at a range and so we have moved it to weekends Friday we allowed certainly allowed some of our partnership SWAT teams to train in there as well so we've put a stop to all that or it becomes an overtime issue really yeah that's right overtime issues which then over long term is cost costs and just getting in half an hour before after you get off through shift or before you go in you get in early it's enough to keep them sharp and accurate and if you don't get that time because DPW is there then that's yeah you're a hundred percent right on that there's there's other things right I mean the the doesn't matter what we've done and you guys have all trust it that lower level was police department that was the when the buildings over there were created that that was the police departments you know, um, involvement at the time, but every one of these organization or areas have now expanded. Um, you know, we, we need training rooms for the entire township. Uh, we host different types of leadership training now. And so those areas are, we have to fight for those areas when, when, you know, that's where we do our defensive tactics. That's where we do our classrooms. I mean, there's just so much that we try to do. And an agency are, are young. We, this young, we have to train. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Jim. So where do we go from here? Well, I think, as I said, for myself anyway, I, I think that both, both proposals are getting at the needs that are required to provide the services that are expected by the residents. Um, and, um, um, you know, one does it in a, you know, a, a lower numbers for bonds, bond support, uh, and a remodel component, um, uh, which will, you know, have less costs today. The other one is a little more today, a higher bond component, um, but arguably has, uh, greater costs over the long term and, you know, ties our hands here with flex, there's less flexibility in the future.

  80. there then that's yeah you're a hundred percent right on that there's there's other things right I mean the the doesn't matter what we've done and you guys have all trust it that lower level was police department that was the when the buildings over there were created that that was the police departments you know, um, involvement at the time, but every one of these organization or areas have now expanded. Um, you know, we, we need training rooms for the entire township. Uh, we host different types of leadership training now. And so those areas are, we have to fight for those areas when, when, you know, that's where we do our defensive tactics. That's where we do our classrooms. I mean, there's just so much that we try to do. And an agency are, are young. We, this young, we have to train. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Jim. So where do we go from here? Well, I think, as I said, for myself anyway, I, I think that both, both proposals are getting at the needs that are required to provide the services that are expected by the residents. Um, and, um, um, you know, one does it in a, you know, a, a lower numbers for bonds, bond support, uh, and a remodel component, um, uh, which will, you know, have less costs today. The other one is a little more today, a higher bond component, um, but arguably has, uh, greater costs over the long term and, you know, ties our hands here with flex, there's less flexibility in the future. Um, but that's, that's down the road. I don't really know how to predict those, those. Well, if you're going to spend the draft. You're going to have to see, if you're going to no longer get a record. It's in a locker room with the läuft pen. Thank you. cost but I think they're real but in the end you know I think that both of them get to the situation that we have to address and I can support both I think that that you know I'd like to hear sort of where everybody is ultimately here on the board and see what they can support and and go from there so I agree with you I can support either one I think kind of like what I do personally is when you're gonna make a project to do all the things you can now because costs are just going to continue to rise and sometimes I can't predict what the costs are to be in my home or on older cars or older products but when I have something new it is more of a predictable cost basis for me and my family so I'm going to take that same approach here and I am going to be in support of the 60

  81. um, you know, one does it in a, you know, a, a lower numbers for bonds, bond support, uh, and a remodel component, um, uh, which will, you know, have less costs today. The other one is a little more today, a higher bond component, um, but arguably has, uh, greater costs over the long term and, you know, ties our hands here with flex, there's less flexibility in the future. Um, but that's, that's down the road. I don't really know how to predict those, those. Well, if you're going to spend the draft. You're going to have to see, if you're going to no longer get a record. It's in a locker room with the läuft pen. Thank you. cost but I think they're real but in the end you know I think that both of them get to the situation that we have to address and I can support both I think that that you know I'd like to hear sort of where everybody is ultimately here on the board and see what they can support and and go from there so I agree with you I can support either one I think kind of like what I do personally is when you're gonna make a project to do all the things you can now because costs are just going to continue to rise and sometimes I can't predict what the costs are to be in my home or on older cars or older products but when I have something new it is more of a predictable cost basis for me and my family so I'm going to take that same approach here and I am going to be in support of the 60 million dollar bond now to hope that again long term it is more fiscally prudent for our residents going forward and has a predictive measure for cost and the maintenance and we'll address a lot of our issues associated with accessibility in the building for our residents I suppose there's one other option which is to do nothing we could do nothing that's a good option yeah I guess was yes I don't think doing this and again what I appreciate is both options are addressing the needs and I think nobody nobody on this board will say that doing nothing is the right approach that's just kicking the can down the road which is what other boards have had to do basically the financial situation we have as this board and previous boards created this position where we can make this investment and we have the ability to so again that's a testament to not only us but boards before us that got us here so again that's where my stance is i i could support either one and i think we definitely need to put one one through so which one would you do val i told you i'm conflicted um i was all about the new the whole comprehensive plan

  82. going to take that same approach here and I am going to be in support of the 60 million dollar bond now to hope that again long term it is more fiscally prudent for our residents going forward and has a predictive measure for cost and the maintenance and we'll address a lot of our issues associated with accessibility in the building for our residents I suppose there's one other option which is to do nothing we could do nothing that's a good option yeah I guess was yes I don't think doing this and again what I appreciate is both options are addressing the needs and I think nobody nobody on this board will say that doing nothing is the right approach that's just kicking the can down the road which is what other boards have had to do basically the financial situation we have as this board and previous boards created this position where we can make this investment and we have the ability to so again that's a testament to not only us but boards before us that got us here so again that's where my stance is i i could support either one and i think we definitely need to put one one through so which one would you do val i told you i'm conflicted um i was all about the new the whole comprehensive plan but i know that asking the residents to go there considering that election we just had if it if it fails then where have we gone but if it fails it doesn't mean we don't have a police department our fire department that would just that we would just then be able to listen to our residents and they can tell us some of these other millages which you pointed out and again you point out as well as uh supervisor mccurdy has and it's very fair some residents have been very outspoken about some of the millages so the millages we're talking about are three and a half mills two and a half mills big dollars what we're talking about which again to the credit of everybody is talking about twenty dollar difference to our average and those millages by were for services not for not for buildings so So now, Supervisor McCready has pointed out other places have missed on some of their investments in their buildings. But a lot of the feedback was, are you being transparent about where you're spending the money? Both plans are very comprehensive about where we're spending the money and what we're doing with it.

  83. one would you do val i told you i'm conflicted um i was all about the new the whole comprehensive plan but i know that asking the residents to go there considering that election we just had if it if it fails then where have we gone but if it fails it doesn't mean we don't have a police department our fire department that would just that we would just then be able to listen to our residents and they can tell us some of these other millages which you pointed out and again you point out as well as uh supervisor mccurdy has and it's very fair some residents have been very outspoken about some of the millages so the millages we're talking about are three and a half mills two and a half mills big dollars what we're talking about which again to the credit of everybody is talking about twenty dollar difference to our average and those millages by were for services not for not for buildings so So now, Supervisor McCready has pointed out other places have missed on some of their investments in their buildings. But a lot of the feedback was, are you being transparent about where you're spending the money? Both plans are very comprehensive about where we're spending the money and what we're doing with it. So Supervisor McCready's plan is very comprehensive about where I'm spending my dollars. The same thing with Michael's. This is where our dollars are being spent based on what you've asked for us. So Chris, let me ask you a question. You're a voter, right? Yes, sir. We're all voters, right? Chris is a builder, too. Yeah, he builds new homes, so he likes new. But I live in a house from 1963. But he understands construction was my point. Why do you live in a house from 1963? Why don't you build yourself a brand new house? Because I couldn't afford it in the township. That's right. That's why. That's right. But if you're a voter now and you've heard our conversation, this will all be in the press. Right? We've got to put a proposal out there that has a best chance of passing. And that's what's most important. And we're going to hear what's best chance of passing is the needs of our public safety department and our fire department. And best-in-class services and infrastructure. We're not going to change our best-in-class services. We won't allow that to happen. We could work out of a trailer. And with this group, we will provide the services our residents expect. Okay. Well, this is...

  84. Both plans are very comprehensive about where we're spending the money and what we're doing with it. So Supervisor McCready's plan is very comprehensive about where I'm spending my dollars. The same thing with Michael's. This is where our dollars are being spent based on what you've asked for us. So Chris, let me ask you a question. You're a voter, right? Yes, sir. We're all voters, right? Chris is a builder, too. Yeah, he builds new homes, so he likes new. But I live in a house from 1963. But he understands construction was my point. Why do you live in a house from 1963? Why don't you build yourself a brand new house? Because I couldn't afford it in the township. That's right. That's why. That's right. But if you're a voter now and you've heard our conversation, this will all be in the press. Right? We've got to put a proposal out there that has a best chance of passing. And that's what's most important. And we're going to hear what's best chance of passing is the needs of our public safety department and our fire department. And best-in-class services and infrastructure. We're not going to change our best-in-class services. We won't allow that to happen. We could work out of a trailer. And with this group, we will provide the services our residents expect. Okay. Well, this is... I agree it's a very difficult decision and, I mean, as I mentioned, I could be listening to everything, persuaded both ways. However, Mike, you just mentioned something that we have talked about. What is the most likely or what's the strongest thing we could put on, proposal we could put on the ballot as far as having the residents support? And I believe yours is probably the one that would get the easiest support. I like Michael's proposal, even though the building is, I mean, I'm not scared away the fact this is a 90-year-old building. Look at the Fisher Building. It's 100 years old. This is no Fisher Building. No, this is during the Depression. Exactly, exactly. But, I mean, this is. In four months. Yes, three different buildings that are kind of put together. They don't, it's not efficient. It doesn't meet the efficiencies that our residents need both for disability, both for, you know, just use in general. But I think I can make do with it as far as if we have to put a little more money into it

  85. I agree it's a very difficult decision and, I mean, as I mentioned, I could be listening to everything, persuaded both ways. However, Mike, you just mentioned something that we have talked about. What is the most likely or what's the strongest thing we could put on, proposal we could put on the ballot as far as having the residents support? And I believe yours is probably the one that would get the easiest support. I like Michael's proposal, even though the building is, I mean, I'm not scared away the fact this is a 90-year-old building. Look at the Fisher Building. It's 100 years old. This is no Fisher Building. No, this is during the Depression. Exactly, exactly. But, I mean, this is. In four months. Yes, three different buildings that are kind of put together. They don't, it's not efficient. It doesn't meet the efficiencies that our residents need both for disability, both for, you know, just use in general. But I think I can make do with it as far as if we have to put a little more money into it to make it more efficient, so be it. The other part, too, is, as I mentioned, so we have. public works senior center and all of those bonds are falling there'll be falling off in a few years in addition to another one after that so if we decide moving forward or whichever book who's on the board decides moving forward the town hall a new town hall is something that seems that is needed then I believe we'll have less debt as far as in that area and there'll be more money available if the people wanted to move forward with it but getting back to where I started with this I do think that doing police and fire station 3 and your proposal Mike I believe has the best opportunity to get the support of the residents anybody else have comments I think I've made mine my concern is we've

  86. But I think I can make do with it as far as if we have to put a little more money into it to make it more efficient, so be it. The other part, too, is, as I mentioned, so we have. public works senior center and all of those bonds are falling there'll be falling off in a few years in addition to another one after that so if we decide moving forward or whichever book who's on the board decides moving forward the town hall a new town hall is something that seems that is needed then I believe we'll have less debt as far as in that area and there'll be more money available if the people wanted to move forward with it but getting back to where I started with this I do think that doing police and fire station 3 and your proposal Mike I believe has the best opportunity to get the support of the residents anybody else have comments I think I've made mine my concern is we've talked you possess that 30 million over six years it's 5 million a year on average I think as a portion should come from the current revenue stream we're going to be giving 30 million in proposal Michael's proposal and 17 million and and Mike's proposal so we are going to be providing a significant investment from that in Mike's proposal he's setting aside money because there are some unknowns of this building and to make sure so again doing the fiscally prudent thing to make sure that we don't we could lower it more but then we expose the township that's not what he's doing in this proposal so my boy did look at self-financing huh yeah we didn't look at self-financing so again in both proposals they are doing that so which proposal will you be willing to support I don't support doing a debt millage so yeah okay I think they need a new police station and I think we can use the same policies that have generated that 30

  87. anybody else have comments I think I've made mine my concern is we've talked you possess that 30 million over six years it's 5 million a year on average I think as a portion should come from the current revenue stream we're going to be giving 30 million in proposal Michael's proposal and 17 million and and Mike's proposal so we are going to be providing a significant investment from that in Mike's proposal he's setting aside money because there are some unknowns of this building and to make sure so again doing the fiscally prudent thing to make sure that we don't we could lower it more but then we expose the township that's not what he's doing in this proposal so my boy did look at self-financing huh yeah we didn't look at self-financing so again in both proposals they are doing that so which proposal will you be willing to support I don't support doing a debt millage so yeah okay I think they need a new police station and I think we can use the same policies that have generated that 30 million to pay for the new building so we would okay do you have some ideas like I am open I mean what policies do you think we should be following that would free up that kind of money the same policies that use to generate the 30 million but well those are the past that was also during COVID but but again so that we had six-year contracts with our all of our different unions we had COVID we had done self-insured which worked out timing to be a significant financial so like those were one-time big hits to our budget and then the increase in interest income which was not necessarily at that time we we can't predict going forward that we're gonna be able to get three to five million dollars a year in interest income and in either proposal we'll be spending down a lot of our cash so our experts are telling us we can't self-fund at this time so if we have a need I don't want to kick the can down the road whatever proposal we do as a board we're gonna come to a consensus to do one of these investments again they have a need and we have to address it kicking the can down the road because we don't want debt is a noble thing but it

  88. station and I think we can use the same policies that have generated that 30 million to pay for the new building so we would okay do you have some ideas like I am open I mean what policies do you think we should be following that would free up that kind of money the same policies that use to generate the 30 million but well those are the past that was also during COVID but but again so that we had six-year contracts with our all of our different unions we had COVID we had done self-insured which worked out timing to be a significant financial so like those were one-time big hits to our budget and then the increase in interest income which was not necessarily at that time we we can't predict going forward that we're gonna be able to get three to five million dollars a year in interest income and in either proposal we'll be spending down a lot of our cash so our experts are telling us we can't self-fund at this time so if we have a need I don't want to kick the can down the road whatever proposal we do as a board we're gonna come to a consensus to do one of these investments again they have a need and we have to address it kicking the can down the road because we don't want debt is a noble thing but it still makes our men and women of our police department our fire department not have the facilities they need well in the whole problem with kicking the can down the road is that everything gets more expensive and your construction case in point my parents bought a house back in the 50s and my mom was very conservative they paid cash they would saved up their money for four years and they paid cash for my childhood home but they wanted a garage and the garage was another thousand dollars in 1951 and my mother didn't want a loan at 4% so they saved the money for a year and called the builder back well it was you know two thousand dollars the next year so four percent interest and all the hassle of bringing them back Again, putting off doesn't make it cheaper, even if you can go on a cash basis. If you have the cash now, sure, pay down what we can. I'm all for that. Reduce the bond. Reduce the interest. But to say, well, maybe we could save $5 million a year for a few more years,

  89. kicking the can down the road because we don't want debt is a noble thing but it still makes our men and women of our police department our fire department not have the facilities they need well in the whole problem with kicking the can down the road is that everything gets more expensive and your construction case in point my parents bought a house back in the 50s and my mom was very conservative they paid cash they would saved up their money for four years and they paid cash for my childhood home but they wanted a garage and the garage was another thousand dollars in 1951 and my mother didn't want a loan at 4% so they saved the money for a year and called the builder back well it was you know two thousand dollars the next year so four percent interest and all the hassle of bringing them back Again, putting off doesn't make it cheaper, even if you can go on a cash basis. If you have the cash now, sure, pay down what we can. I'm all for that. Reduce the bond. Reduce the interest. But to say, well, maybe we could save $5 million a year for a few more years, it's going to be a more expensive proposal. And in the meantime, the need is now. And the cost we know is going to go up. That's not the point I was making. If the township generated, on average, $5 million a year, why would you need the additional cash? You don't need it. Well, and it was brought up by Michael, and I think Mike before, is when some of these bonds fall off, especially the ones that we internally bonded, like the pension bonds, who utilize some of our general fund revenue to offset this. And the answer, I think, came back was yes. So in either proposal, future boards could find ways to reduce that burden to our residents. But right now, the need is right now, and we cannot internally bond for it. Those are knowns. So if you're on the board or if I'm on the board in the future, we can make those fiscally prudent decisions, regardless of which one we go with. Jimmy, did you have a comment? Yeah, just in response to a couple of things that Trustee Hockley had said. We were down, I mean, we are, for the first time since I've been chief, and we just started my fifth year and my sixth year at fully staffed per personnel. We had significant savings within the police department. We had significant savings within the police department. We had significant savings within the police department.

  90. But to say, well, maybe we could save $5 million a year for a few more years, it's going to be a more expensive proposal. And in the meantime, the need is now. And the cost we know is going to go up. That's not the point I was making. If the township generated, on average, $5 million a year, why would you need the additional cash? You don't need it. Well, and it was brought up by Michael, and I think Mike before, is when some of these bonds fall off, especially the ones that we internally bonded, like the pension bonds, who utilize some of our general fund revenue to offset this. And the answer, I think, came back was yes. So in either proposal, future boards could find ways to reduce that burden to our residents. But right now, the need is right now, and we cannot internally bond for it. Those are knowns. So if you're on the board or if I'm on the board in the future, we can make those fiscally prudent decisions, regardless of which one we go with. Jimmy, did you have a comment? Yeah, just in response to a couple of things that Trustee Hockley had said. We were down, I mean, we are, for the first time since I've been chief, and we just started my fifth year and my sixth year at fully staffed per personnel. We had significant savings within the police department. We had significant savings within the police department. We had significant savings within the police department. in a bad way and 14 open police officer positions. So over however many of that time, that's a lot of money. We also have not done any other than the mandatory operational capital improvements we needed to make downstairs so that we had open women's lockers for officers and expanding a dispatch room that we had to have. Some of that capital improvement money that was able to get us that four or five million dollars is money that we would not have had available coming in future years. So I just want to, I appreciate that sentiment too. And I think there's, and correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, I don't know if you want to address this. Do we have to, in the years that we do well financially, do we have to assess every mill? For the millage, for the debt millage or the debt millage? Tony, do you want to try that first? Yeah, sure, no, I did speak with bond council on that and we do have the opportunity to pay out of operating and not levy in any given year if we did have additional funding such that it wasn't necessary in that given year to pay out of general. Okay, and I don't know if that helps, Mark. Well, and to tag on to Chief's comment, when I came on the board in 2020, it was COVID,

  91. in a bad way and 14 open police officer positions. So over however many of that time, that's a lot of money. We also have not done any other than the mandatory operational capital improvements we needed to make downstairs so that we had open women's lockers for officers and expanding a dispatch room that we had to have. Some of that capital improvement money that was able to get us that four or five million dollars is money that we would not have had available coming in future years. So I just want to, I appreciate that sentiment too. And I think there's, and correct me if I'm wrong, Michael, I don't know if you want to address this. Do we have to, in the years that we do well financially, do we have to assess every mill? For the millage, for the debt millage or the debt millage? Tony, do you want to try that first? Yeah, sure, no, I did speak with bond council on that and we do have the opportunity to pay out of operating and not levy in any given year if we did have additional funding such that it wasn't necessary in that given year to pay out of general. Okay, and I don't know if that helps, Mark. Well, and to tag on to Chief's comment, when I came on the board in 2020, it was COVID, and we were short staff, we were short police, we were short fire, we were short the cable station. The director left and we had no director for a while. You know, there were so many labor issues. that now we're pretty much filled we've added an HR director that we never had before we have different levels of our day-to-day costs now so that's partly how we were able to and Michael's been a wonderful treasurer I would say so you know watching not paying her to say that watching the bottom line and making smart investments but things were very different coming out of kovat when I came on the board and yeah I kept hearing there's a surplus there's a surplus and we saved it and I'm glad we did I'll just say my final remarks and that is that you know we are trustees not delegates and the distinction there is that we are put in this position to analyze all of the available information a lot of information that wouldn't necessarily be available to you

  92. when I came on the board in 2020, it was COVID, and we were short staff, we were short police, we were short fire, we were short the cable station. The director left and we had no director for a while. You know, there were so many labor issues. that now we're pretty much filled we've added an HR director that we never had before we have different levels of our day-to-day costs now so that's partly how we were able to and Michael's been a wonderful treasurer I would say so you know watching not paying her to say that watching the bottom line and making smart investments but things were very different coming out of kovat when I came on the board and yeah I kept hearing there's a surplus there's a surplus and we saved it and I'm glad we did I'll just say my final remarks and that is that you know we are trustees not delegates and the distinction there is that we are put in this position to analyze all of the available information a lot of information that wouldn't necessarily be available to you know general taxpayers or residents and we are charged as fiduciaries to do what's in the best long-term interest of the township and I think that everybody here on the board is doing what they think is in the best long-term interest of the township and we don't all agree but I think what's important is that whichever way this vote comes out that we know that going to support this millage because we need um we need it to pass because we need it for the police department and the fire department um and so um you know i i will of course support whatever the board decides um and i've made my case as to why i think that my proposal is in the best long-term interest financially of the township um and i'll leave that to the rest of you to um decide so mike i'm curious do you have a final wrap-up statement yeah i think michael just hit it on the head he just said it's important to do uh police and fire that's number one and that's the

  93. information a lot of information that wouldn't necessarily be available to you know general taxpayers or residents and we are charged as fiduciaries to do what's in the best long-term interest of the township and I think that everybody here on the board is doing what they think is in the best long-term interest of the township and we don't all agree but I think what's important is that whichever way this vote comes out that we know that going to support this millage because we need um we need it to pass because we need it for the police department and the fire department um and so um you know i i will of course support whatever the board decides um and i've made my case as to why i think that my proposal is in the best long-term interest financially of the township um and i'll leave that to the rest of you to um decide so mike i'm curious do you have a final wrap-up statement yeah i think michael just hit it on the head he just said it's important to do uh police and fire that's number one and that's the best chance of getting passed whether we feel differently about a town hall or not we have to vote on what we feel the voters our residents would support and after they see this conversation and the press puts out in the paper i think we need to move forward with just the police station and the fire station but those those are needs and those are huge huge asks as well and one of the things um i know i've wrestled with is you know if we go for the michael's plan the all-encompassing i mean i i i love the plan um and the park and it seems like it checks a lot of boxes but if is so so so Thank you. the voters don't agree then the next election isn't for clerk two years year and a half two years and if we have to hold a separate special right scheduled we know now there's going to be other things that could come but if we have to hold a separate a separate scheduled election because we decide next february uh-oh you know we really we have to go with this again and we try it again correct me if I'm wrong it's probably about a hundred thousand dollars for us to run a

  94. the head he just said it's important to do uh police and fire that's number one and that's the best chance of getting passed whether we feel differently about a town hall or not we have to vote on what we feel the voters our residents would support and after they see this conversation and the press puts out in the paper i think we need to move forward with just the police station and the fire station but those those are needs and those are huge huge asks as well and one of the things um i know i've wrestled with is you know if we go for the michael's plan the all-encompassing i mean i i i love the plan um and the park and it seems like it checks a lot of boxes but if is so so so Thank you. the voters don't agree then the next election isn't for clerk two years year and a half two years and if we have to hold a separate special right scheduled we know now there's going to be other things that could come but if we have to hold a separate a separate scheduled election because we decide next february uh-oh you know we really we have to go with this again and we try it again correct me if I'm wrong it's probably about a hundred thousand dollars for us to run a separate election and that's a hundred thousand dollars that we will never see again so again we want to be as thoughtful and as directed in what you know what's in the best interest and what's the most important that we need I just want to clarify to make sure there's no misunderstandings I am fully in support of my proposal that's what I'll be voting for I will not vote for the other proposal my point was that we want as a board once the vote is taken to make sure that we you know do what we can to you know get this over the finish line and you know I think I think our residents are sophisticated and smart enough to understand that the proposal at least that I'm presenting is you you know what we feel as trustees in the best long-term interest of the township. I'm not happy to operate two buildings. So that's my final thought. I think some of us have said we would support either proposal, and some people are maybe just one proposal.

  95. try it again correct me if I'm wrong it's probably about a hundred thousand dollars for us to run a separate election and that's a hundred thousand dollars that we will never see again so again we want to be as thoughtful and as directed in what you know what's in the best interest and what's the most important that we need I just want to clarify to make sure there's no misunderstandings I am fully in support of my proposal that's what I'll be voting for I will not vote for the other proposal my point was that we want as a board once the vote is taken to make sure that we you know do what we can to you know get this over the finish line and you know I think I think our residents are sophisticated and smart enough to understand that the proposal at least that I'm presenting is you you know what we feel as trustees in the best long-term interest of the township. I'm not happy to operate two buildings. So that's my final thought. I think some of us have said we would support either proposal, and some people are maybe just one proposal. So, Michael, would you support both proposals, if that's the way the board goes? I would support if the board goes in that direction. I, of course, would support it tomorrow because we need to get something passed. However, I will not support it tonight. And Supervisor McCready? I think that we have to be fiduciary responsible to the residents. I believe the proposal I put out there is the best fiduciary conservative approach for our residents while delivering them the best-in-class service with public safety and fire. So you're going to be voting for your proposal tonight? That's correct. And tomorrow the board votes for the other proposal? Mm-hmm. I think I've already spoken out against the town hall, so I think I've spoken and they've heard me. Well, the board gets to make that decision ultimately where we're going, and I'll support whatever the board decides to. Well, thank you.

  96. and some people are maybe just one proposal. So, Michael, would you support both proposals, if that's the way the board goes? I would support if the board goes in that direction. I, of course, would support it tomorrow because we need to get something passed. However, I will not support it tonight. And Supervisor McCready? I think that we have to be fiduciary responsible to the residents. I believe the proposal I put out there is the best fiduciary conservative approach for our residents while delivering them the best-in-class service with public safety and fire. So you're going to be voting for your proposal tonight? That's correct. And tomorrow the board votes for the other proposal? Mm-hmm. I think I've already spoken out against the town hall, so I think I've spoken and they've heard me. Well, the board gets to make that decision ultimately where we're going, and I'll support whatever the board decides to. Well, thank you. I'm with you, Martin. Whichever decision the board makes this evening, tomorrow I'll be supporting. I mean, I could support either proposal, but a new police facility and a new fire station are the critical needs. And so I kind of keep that in the forefront, but I could support either proposal. So I don't know how we're taking multiple votes here. Supervisor McCready, would you like one side to make their motion and see if we get more than four and then go from there? Or how would you like to do this since you ran the meeting, sir? Well, it looks like it's pretty split right now. Which is good. That means that you guys made great arguments. Well, Tony, all we need, whichever, whoever gets four votes, right? That's it. But do we do two different votes or just? Well, I think the first vote that gets four would win. The first that gets four. That's all we need. So if we came out with a tie, then we'd have to figure out a way to split. There's no tie. Well, if so, depending on how Trustee Antakali has stated not supporting debt, I know I'm going to speak for you,

  97. I'm with you, Martin. Whichever decision the board makes this evening, tomorrow I'll be supporting. I mean, I could support either proposal, but a new police facility and a new fire station are the critical needs. And so I kind of keep that in the forefront, but I could support either proposal. So I don't know how we're taking multiple votes here. Supervisor McCready, would you like one side to make their motion and see if we get more than four and then go from there? Or how would you like to do this since you ran the meeting, sir? Well, it looks like it's pretty split right now. Which is good. That means that you guys made great arguments. Well, Tony, all we need, whichever, whoever gets four votes, right? That's it. But do we do two different votes or just? Well, I think the first vote that gets four would win. The first that gets four. That's all we need. So if we came out with a tie, then we'd have to figure out a way to split. There's no tie. Well, if so, depending on how Trustee Antakali has stated not supporting debt, I know I'm going to speak for you, but he has said that, so he hasn't publicly said which way he's going. So I'll make the motion and then we can go from there. I would like, if you're okay with that, Supervisor McCready? Yeah, go ahead. So I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make So I would like to make a motion that we bond for the $60 million for the comprehensive plan for Town Hall and the police department and fire station. And this is for the resolution as proposed from Treasurer Shosek. I'll second. Okay, so a proposal by Chris and support by Mark, is that correct? Correct. Any further comments? No, let's do a roll call. I'll vote Smartin. Okay, Mr. Antocley? No. Just a quick point of order. Our attorney, can you second a motion and vote no? You can. It's unusual, but you can. Okay. Mr. Kalinske? I'll vote yes. Mr. Barnett? No. No. Ms. Marie? Go the other direction. I'm really torn. Um, I guess I'm going to say no.

  98. Well, if so, depending on how Trustee Antakali has stated not supporting debt, I know I'm going to speak for you, but he has said that, so he hasn't publicly said which way he's going. So I'll make the motion and then we can go from there. I would like, if you're okay with that, Supervisor McCready? Yeah, go ahead. So I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make the motion and then I'll make So I would like to make a motion that we bond for the $60 million for the comprehensive plan for Town Hall and the police department and fire station. And this is for the resolution as proposed from Treasurer Shosek. I'll second. Okay, so a proposal by Chris and support by Mark, is that correct? Correct. Any further comments? No, let's do a roll call. I'll vote Smartin. Okay, Mr. Antocley? No. Just a quick point of order. Our attorney, can you second a motion and vote no? You can. It's unusual, but you can. Okay. Mr. Kalinske? I'll vote yes. Mr. Barnett? No. No. Ms. Marie? Go the other direction. I'm really torn. Um, I guess I'm going to say no. Mr. Shosek? Yes. And let's see. So we've got Barnett, I know. Our Antocley, I know. Our Murray, I know. Kalinske. yes show stack yes I'm a yes I'm a no nose carry that four to three okay then I'll make a motion supporting supervisor McCready's bond proposal as as as presented in the in the resolution okay support by Neal or proposed by Neal support we have support can I support it support yes support by Thank You Val support by Val do the roll call vote or any comments before we take a vote so

  99. Um, I guess I'm going to say no. Mr. Shosek? Yes. And let's see. So we've got Barnett, I know. Our Antocley, I know. Our Murray, I know. Kalinske. yes show stack yes I'm a yes I'm a no nose carry that four to three okay then I'll make a motion supporting supervisor McCready's bond proposal as as as presented in the in the resolution okay support by Neal or proposed by Neal support we have support can I support it support yes support by Thank You Val support by Val do the roll call vote or any comments before we take a vote so just to confirm you're gonna still do a 20-year mill it a 20-year bond on yours right is that so that because just in the lowest interest that's the quickest way to pay it off perfect thank you mr. Antockley no mr. Kalinske no mr. Barnett yes miss Murray yes mr. Shostak no I'm a yes I'm a yes sir oh supervisor yes yes yes so that's for yeses and three notes right yes congratulations motion passes we're having a public safety building please Is it great? It is great. Thank you all. Thanks, guys. Great conversation. Great conversation. And then I want to thank the board for being professional throughout this. This was great. It was. Absolutely. Great conversation and the fact that we think differently just gets us the best option and outcome for our residents. So thank you all. Okay. Agreed. All right. So item number will go 4A. Mark approved the board minutes from July 27, 2026. Yes, there's a comment that all questions were answered in the board minutes.

  100. support by Val do the roll call vote or any comments before we take a vote so just to confirm you're gonna still do a 20-year mill it a 20-year bond on yours right is that so that because just in the lowest interest that's the quickest way to pay it off perfect thank you mr. Antockley no mr. Kalinske no mr. Barnett yes miss Murray yes mr. Shostak no I'm a yes I'm a yes sir oh supervisor yes yes yes so that's for yeses and three notes right yes congratulations motion passes we're having a public safety building please Is it great? It is great. Thank you all. Thanks, guys. Great conversation. Great conversation. And then I want to thank the board for being professional throughout this. This was great. It was. Absolutely. Great conversation and the fact that we think differently just gets us the best option and outcome for our residents. So thank you all. Okay. Agreed. All right. So item number will go 4A. Mark approved the board minutes from July 27, 2026. Yes, there's a comment that all questions were answered in the board minutes. There was a comment on my questions regarding OPEP that individuals did not understand what I was talking about. So I printed out a couple of documents on the township website. The first is the report that goes to Treasury. You'll notice on line item 7, there's a $8,787,000 actuarially calculated payment. Mark, can you hang on a quick second? I just got the page in front of me, so. Okay. Am I starting again? Yes. Okay. On line item 7, there's a ADC calculation, an actuarially determined contribution calculation. I see it now. Yep. Okay. Okay. The next page where the calculations come from, from the Milliman report. So what you'll see here is the fire, police, and town are all positive. We'll see you next time. Oh, yeah. ADCs while cable, building inspection, and sewer are negative. So when I make the comments on the negative requirements, make contributions, that's where I'm getting the information from, and this is on our township website.

  101. Yes, there's a comment that all questions were answered in the board minutes. There was a comment on my questions regarding OPEP that individuals did not understand what I was talking about. So I printed out a couple of documents on the township website. The first is the report that goes to Treasury. You'll notice on line item 7, there's a $8,787,000 actuarially calculated payment. Mark, can you hang on a quick second? I just got the page in front of me, so. Okay. Am I starting again? Yes. Okay. On line item 7, there's a ADC calculation, an actuarially determined contribution calculation. I see it now. Yep. Okay. Okay. The next page where the calculations come from, from the Milliman report. So what you'll see here is the fire, police, and town are all positive. We'll see you next time. Oh, yeah. ADCs while cable, building inspection, and sewer are negative. So when I make the comments on the negative requirements, make contributions, that's where I'm getting the information from, and this is on our township website. You'll notice that the full payment, if you look at fire, police, and town only, it's about 9.1 million, yet what's on the actuary includes the negative payments from cable, water, and sewer, and building inspection. So that's something I continually bring up. You'll also notice that the benefit payments are cash outflows for all six funds, or six groups. And even though cash is going out of cable studio, building inspection, and water and sewer, they still have a negative ADC, so that's on our township website. So a lot of comments were made, don't know where my reference point is, this is where it is. The next one is also from the same report, and this looks at what happened in the past. You'll notice that water and sewer, the benefit payments are a lot less than the transfers in, so those are the contributions, and I keep asking when were the contributions approved above the benefit payments for water and sewer. I have not gotten a number.

  102. You'll notice that the full payment, if you look at fire, police, and town only, it's about 9.1 million, yet what's on the actuary includes the negative payments from cable, water, and sewer, and building inspection. So that's something I continually bring up. You'll also notice that the benefit payments are cash outflows for all six funds, or six groups. And even though cash is going out of cable studio, building inspection, and water and sewer, they still have a negative ADC, so that's on our township website. So a lot of comments were made, don't know where my reference point is, this is where it is. The next one is also from the same report, and this looks at what happened in the past. You'll notice that water and sewer, the benefit payments are a lot less than the transfers in, so those are the contributions, and I keep asking when were the contributions approved above the benefit payments for water and sewer. I have not gotten a number. answer to that but they're clearly here highlighted you'll also notice that the public safety and town portion of the funds those items were approved above benefit payouts so by the board and even mr. Tice has been saying it so again this goes back to when were those payments approved I think your point is it these are the points you made before and and I believe there were answers provided you didn't like the answers but there were answers provided no there was no no one ever told me when those contributions from water and sewer were approved because the board approved a plan in 2019 and it required the benefit payments to go in now the benefits the contributions above that for water and sewer were never approved by the board we even talked about it you can't and this is in the documents a moment and I've asked for that and that has not been provided if the township I also received a call from Department of Treasury is that enough for the minutes though well yes it is because items related to the phone

  103. answer to that but they're clearly here highlighted you'll also notice that the public safety and town portion of the funds those items were approved above benefit payouts so by the board and even mr. Tice has been saying it so again this goes back to when were those payments approved I think your point is it these are the points you made before and and I believe there were answers provided you didn't like the answers but there were answers provided no there was no no one ever told me when those contributions from water and sewer were approved because the board approved a plan in 2019 and it required the benefit payments to go in now the benefits the contributions above that for water and sewer were never approved by the board we even talked about it you can't and this is in the documents a moment and I've asked for that and that has not been provided if the township I also received a call from Department of Treasury is that enough for the minutes though well yes it is because items related to the phone call from Treasury included the quarterly reports all funds have to be reported not the four major funds so that's Treasury said that that was improper Treasury also stated. And again, we're talking about our minutes, right? Yes, all questions answered. I had a 28-page document with 40 items listed. Yeah, we all read it. So, and all those questions weren't answered. I asked about. All the questions that were raised were discussed and responded to. And I stand by the board and by the UHY. All right, stating that it happened a long time ago, so there's no reason to look at it. I don't believe it's an answer. If you believe that is, I do. That's part. Yeah, we do. Okay. All in favor. Okay. So we have a motion to approve the minutes and support. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. Nay. Six to one. Thank you. And then, Mark, you said D, approve payroll and vouchers. Yes, I don't agree. I don't believe it's reasonable to charge water and sewer for central services fees, rent, and retain the investment income that's generated on their principal. I believe it should be moved in.

  104. enough for the minutes though well yes it is because items related to the phone call from Treasury included the quarterly reports all funds have to be reported not the four major funds so that's Treasury said that that was improper Treasury also stated. And again, we're talking about our minutes, right? Yes, all questions answered. I had a 28-page document with 40 items listed. Yeah, we all read it. So, and all those questions weren't answered. I asked about. All the questions that were raised were discussed and responded to. And I stand by the board and by the UHY. All right, stating that it happened a long time ago, so there's no reason to look at it. I don't believe it's an answer. If you believe that is, I do. That's part. Yeah, we do. Okay. All in favor. Okay. So we have a motion to approve the minutes and support. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. Nay. Six to one. Thank you. And then, Mark, you said D, approve payroll and vouchers. Yes, I don't agree. I don't believe it's reasonable to charge water and sewer for central services fees, rent, and retain the investment income that's generated on their principal. I believe it should be moved in. That would change the budget. Therefore, I'm voting no. Okay. Can we approve the board? Can I make one statement, if you don't mind? Yeah. But I don't feel that, as we're talking about politics, I don't feel like we should hold employees' pay and benefits hostage. Or our vendors. Just because I have a disagreement with any board member or a policy. Well, the board is down. Only one person is. So, as I said, I make a motion. We approve. And I support. Support. Motion by Neal. Support by Chris. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Nay. Passes 6 to 1. And I move for adjournment. All in favor? Aye. Thank you. Thank you, everyone.