the-compact
Board Of Trustees Tuesday, September 9, 2025 · 160 min

Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees Meeting on September 8, 2025

Summary

The Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees meeting discussed public comments, deer nuisance, and potential solutions, including culling, with concerns about safety and ecological impact.

  • Residents discussed deer population and its impact on properties and families.
  • City council discussed deer population and potential culling methods.
  • Oakland County proposed turning Clemas into a local authority to modernize and share data with other communities.
  • The city council discussed the benefits and costs of the Clemmas system for data sharing and public safety.
  • Council discussed management options for urban deer conflicts, considering pros and cons of each approach.

AI-generated from the meeting transcript. Check the video for anything load-bearing.

Topics

Transcript

Click any timestamp to jump the video to that moment. Auto-transcribed; expect occasional errors on proper nouns.

  1. All right, good evening everybody and welcome to our Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees for Monday, September the 8th. It will stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you all for being with us tonight and item number one is public comment. If you're here to comment on anything happening in the township or specifically to the agenda tonight, the podium to my right, your left, you can come up and we ask you to stay within three minutes. And you can line up or one at a time. And if you introduce yourself and give us your address too, please. Hi, Chris Gagnon, 6529 Cathedral Drive. I just have a quick comment in relation to agenda topic number nine. If the board were to vote in favor of moving up the scheduled time for trustee meetings from 7 p.m. to 6.30 p.m. and recommend for other committees to do the same for their meetings, I would request that the times are not adjusted until at least October and potentially the new year. For those residents who are planning to attend the special ZBA meeting on September 30th at 7 p.m., which has already been moved once, it would be challenging to coordinate another change to time or day, especially with flyers and notices already having been circulated. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you, Chris. Hello. Hi, I'm Alyssa Frensley. I live at 778 North Street. Shady Hollow. I don't really have anything prepared, but this is in regards to the deer nuisance and just we have way too many where we live and my dog now has Lyme disease. I've seen other moms post about how they're removing ticks off their kids in Bloomfield Hills and Bloomfield Township. And I have two little babies, a three and a half year old and a one and a half year old. So they're in my yard, they're rutting, they're damaging our property and I want to keep my kids safe because we don't have fences and we want to play out like on our property without having to worry about all the wildlife that's just grown too quickly in our neighborhood. So thank you. Thank you Melissa. Hi, I'm Kim Miller in 841 Thorn Tree Court. I too am talking about the deer problem. I've lived in my neighborhood for 32 years and over the last three years it's gotten so out of control there maybe you'd see four deer but now there's ten of them and I have pictures of ten of them

  2. which has already been moved once, it would be challenging to coordinate another change to time or day, especially with flyers and notices already having been circulated. Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you, Chris. Hello. Hi, I'm Alyssa Frensley. I live at 778 North Street. Shady Hollow. I don't really have anything prepared, but this is in regards to the deer nuisance and just we have way too many where we live and my dog now has Lyme disease. I've seen other moms post about how they're removing ticks off their kids in Bloomfield Hills and Bloomfield Township. And I have two little babies, a three and a half year old and a one and a half year old. So they're in my yard, they're rutting, they're damaging our property and I want to keep my kids safe because we don't have fences and we want to play out like on our property without having to worry about all the wildlife that's just grown too quickly in our neighborhood. So thank you. Thank you Melissa. Hi, I'm Kim Miller in 841 Thorn Tree Court. I too am talking about the deer problem. I've lived in my neighborhood for 32 years and over the last three years it's gotten so out of control there maybe you'd see four deer but now there's ten of them and I have pictures of ten of them on my yard and just they'll go across the street and as Alyssa said I mean they're eating everything and it's just a mess and I don't know why over the last three or four years it's gotten to be so out of control that it's not just a couple here or there it's ten and it's every night in our neighborhood. So I guess we're interested to hear what you have to say about that. You can come up to the mic. phone and make public comment and then at the end we'll answer we'll try and answer any questions for you but public comment is only now yeah public comment is only now not and again later so if you have something to say about an agenda item it is yeah but please don't interrupt our meeting just come on up and make your comment and then we'll answer thank you hi my name is sherry waltz i live at 5838 raven road i'm up here about the deer too my landscaping has just been decimated the deer have tried to attack my dog um i have to keep our when my kids friends kids come over i have to keep them in the house there's 10 deer i wish that was off sometimes i have 12 and 14 in my backyard especially eating the crab apples um it's to the point now where they actually ate they're eating

  3. you'd see four deer but now there's ten of them and I have pictures of ten of them on my yard and just they'll go across the street and as Alyssa said I mean they're eating everything and it's just a mess and I don't know why over the last three or four years it's gotten to be so out of control that it's not just a couple here or there it's ten and it's every night in our neighborhood. So I guess we're interested to hear what you have to say about that. You can come up to the mic. phone and make public comment and then at the end we'll answer we'll try and answer any questions for you but public comment is only now yeah public comment is only now not and again later so if you have something to say about an agenda item it is yeah but please don't interrupt our meeting just come on up and make your comment and then we'll answer thank you hi my name is sherry waltz i live at 5838 raven road i'm up here about the deer too my landscaping has just been decimated the deer have tried to attack my dog um i have to keep our when my kids friends kids come over i have to keep them in the house there's 10 deer i wish that was off sometimes i have 12 and 14 in my backyard especially eating the crab apples um it's to the point now where they actually ate they're eating things they never ate before i came out today and they ate all my azaleas i mean guys i'm trying to maintain property values i'm trying to maintain curb appeal and it's it's beyond the point of anything being okay and i don't know if there can be some sort of a program where they can be neutered or something where you know we can start to reduce the population um i don't know what what plans you guys have thought about or talked about but it's to the point now where i mean my life is being affected they poop all over my yard and then my dog goes out and kind of sniffs and eats at it and then we're constantly taking him to the vet like why he has to eat their poop I don't know but you know and I know this is common I just think that there has to be some sort of I don't know an answer to all of this so thank you sure hi my name is Katherine Lenter 4260 Cary Lane I don't think I'm speaking totally in favor of

  4. especially eating the crab apples um it's to the point now where they actually ate they're eating things they never ate before i came out today and they ate all my azaleas i mean guys i'm trying to maintain property values i'm trying to maintain curb appeal and it's it's beyond the point of anything being okay and i don't know if there can be some sort of a program where they can be neutered or something where you know we can start to reduce the population um i don't know what what plans you guys have thought about or talked about but it's to the point now where i mean my life is being affected they poop all over my yard and then my dog goes out and kind of sniffs and eats at it and then we're constantly taking him to the vet like why he has to eat their poop I don't know but you know and I know this is common I just think that there has to be some sort of I don't know an answer to all of this so thank you sure hi my name is Katherine Lenter 4260 Cary Lane I don't think I'm speaking totally in favor of you're doing something like what Farmington Hills and Southfield have already agreed to I think we should sign on just exactly what they did the DNR is for that I think the they all feel that if all the townships get together that we'll have a much better chance of really doing something about the deer population the deer it's not good for anybody nobody is going to be very sympathetic when I tell them that they ate my hostas but they have decimated my yard that's not the point we are going to get Lyme's disease that is absolutely inevitable that soon I don't think there have been any cases I thought this is the first time I've heard a dog has it but I'm sure that people are going to get Lyme's disease because it's just inevitable the amount of deer that there are the we've been in a terrible terrible accident where our char was almost totaled and the air fortunately the bags came out so we were not hurt, but that I understand. Is there one every day in Bloomfield Township somebody is hitting a deer? It's not good for the deer. Apparently they are now out during the day when they, we just saw them on the way here. You cannot go a

  5. Katherine Lenter 4260 Cary Lane I don't think I'm speaking totally in favor of you're doing something like what Farmington Hills and Southfield have already agreed to I think we should sign on just exactly what they did the DNR is for that I think the they all feel that if all the townships get together that we'll have a much better chance of really doing something about the deer population the deer it's not good for anybody nobody is going to be very sympathetic when I tell them that they ate my hostas but they have decimated my yard that's not the point we are going to get Lyme's disease that is absolutely inevitable that soon I don't think there have been any cases I thought this is the first time I've heard a dog has it but I'm sure that people are going to get Lyme's disease because it's just inevitable the amount of deer that there are the we've been in a terrible terrible accident where our char was almost totaled and the air fortunately the bags came out so we were not hurt, but that I understand. Is there one every day in Bloomfield Township somebody is hitting a deer? It's not good for the deer. Apparently they are now out during the day when they, we just saw them on the way here. You cannot go a day without seeing a deer. They are eating poison now. I know that. They're eating things that they're not supposed, that they wouldn't normally eat because there's not enough food for them. I heard from a fellow who's in the gardening business that they are dying, that they're dying, some deer are dying because they're starving. It's changing their whole ecology I think, their whole, the whole ecological system. Anyway, I don't think it's good for anybody and I sure, and I know that the other townships who have adopted the culling would love to see Bloomfield Township sign on also. Thank you. Thank you. Edwina Bednar is also about the deer. 845 Jonathan Lane. There has to be a solution, but we want to speak to the, we don't think the solution is to have private individuals hunting in our backyards. I do not want to have people with compound bows with permission of my neighbors to hunt with capacity of those bows to

  6. now out during the day when they, we just saw them on the way here. You cannot go a day without seeing a deer. They are eating poison now. I know that. They're eating things that they're not supposed, that they wouldn't normally eat because there's not enough food for them. I heard from a fellow who's in the gardening business that they are dying, that they're dying, some deer are dying because they're starving. It's changing their whole ecology I think, their whole, the whole ecological system. Anyway, I don't think it's good for anybody and I sure, and I know that the other townships who have adopted the culling would love to see Bloomfield Township sign on also. Thank you. Thank you. Edwina Bednar is also about the deer. 845 Jonathan Lane. There has to be a solution, but we want to speak to the, we don't think the solution is to have private individuals hunting in our backyards. I do not want to have people with compound bows with permission of my neighbors to hunt with capacity of those bows to into our yard. I don't want to have happened like happened last November to look out of my window preparing dinner and see this deer dead in the backyard thinking, what in the world am I going to do about that? My husband doesn't want to go into the yard in the winter time and find footprints for people who are stalking deer and scouting racks and things of that sort. So there has to be a solution. In our opinion, private individuals hunting on our property isn't the answer. Thank you. Yeah, Michael Waro, 5355 Provincial Drive. You've got to do something about this deer problem. I lived in the township 45 years. I could plant crops out in my backyard. You can't even put the strawberry out that they don't like anymore. They just ate my arborvitae. It'll be permanently scarred with the waistline now. Something has to be done. I don't care if it's private hunting or what, but it has to be complete. And you can't do it on a township basis. It's got to be area-wide.

  7. into our yard. I don't want to have happened like happened last November to look out of my window preparing dinner and see this deer dead in the backyard thinking, what in the world am I going to do about that? My husband doesn't want to go into the yard in the winter time and find footprints for people who are stalking deer and scouting racks and things of that sort. So there has to be a solution. In our opinion, private individuals hunting on our property isn't the answer. Thank you. Yeah, Michael Waro, 5355 Provincial Drive. You've got to do something about this deer problem. I lived in the township 45 years. I could plant crops out in my backyard. You can't even put the strawberry out that they don't like anymore. They just ate my arborvitae. It'll be permanently scarred with the waistline now. Something has to be done. I don't care if it's private hunting or what, but it has to be complete. And you can't do it on a township basis. It's got to be area-wide. Thank you, Michael. I'm disgusted. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Hi. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you. Robin Sternberg 6575 Donegan Court I agree something has to be done we just put in within the last 12 months a lot of money in landscaping and all I do is see deer coming and eating it this morning I saw a deer on its hind legs eating a tree up in the air last night we came back from a wedding and we're driving down Inkster and there had to have been eight deer just on the side of the road just grazing they need to eat but if there's that many there's not enough food for them and they're withering away so I am in favor of the culling or if there's other options I would love to hear that also but I can't cannot I put stakes in my yard with this like wire fencing going all the way

  8. but it has to be complete. And you can't do it on a township basis. It's got to be area-wide. Thank you, Michael. I'm disgusted. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Hi. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you. Robin Sternberg 6575 Donegan Court I agree something has to be done we just put in within the last 12 months a lot of money in landscaping and all I do is see deer coming and eating it this morning I saw a deer on its hind legs eating a tree up in the air last night we came back from a wedding and we're driving down Inkster and there had to have been eight deer just on the side of the road just grazing they need to eat but if there's that many there's not enough food for them and they're withering away so I am in favor of the culling or if there's other options I would love to hear that also but I can't cannot I put stakes in my yard with this like wire fencing going all the way around some of the prop area where my plantings are which is not aesthetic to anyone nor is it great for birds that could fly into it or other natural habitats so please let's let's take care of this thank you Any further comment, public comment? If not, I'll close public comment, and I'll just let you know. Tonight it's just an informational presentation from the DNR on the deer situation, and to date, as of this calendar year, I believe we've had about 56 car deer crashes. Normally we average about one a week. The highest we've had was about a month ago. We had four in one week, and we've had, you know, once in a while we have two. It gives you an idea of just the natural progression of deer crashes that we're dealing with, just FYI. Okay, thank you. All right, item number two, consider the consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda?

  9. can't cannot I put stakes in my yard with this like wire fencing going all the way around some of the prop area where my plantings are which is not aesthetic to anyone nor is it great for birds that could fly into it or other natural habitats so please let's let's take care of this thank you Any further comment, public comment? If not, I'll close public comment, and I'll just let you know. Tonight it's just an informational presentation from the DNR on the deer situation, and to date, as of this calendar year, I believe we've had about 56 car deer crashes. Normally we average about one a week. The highest we've had was about a month ago. We had four in one week, and we've had, you know, once in a while we have two. It gives you an idea of just the natural progression of deer crashes that we're dealing with, just FYI. Okay, thank you. All right, item number two, consider the consent agenda. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? I'd like to remove three items, the board minutes, the replacement boiler, and payroll and vouchers. Okay, go from the beginning again, Mark. Mark, which ones? A, D, F, F. Okay, A, D, and F. So we'll make those items number 10A, 10B, and 10C. Okay, and is there a motion to approve the consent agenda, minus the items Mark as asked? So moved. And support? Support. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that passes. Seven to nothing. Okay, thank you. Item number three, consider approval of the Clemens Authority Formation Interlocal Agreement presented by our chief. of police james gallagher welcome jim good evening uh thanks for letting us come today um with me is beau chang uh beau is what we'll call the interim director of clemas now and just i'll give you a real brief rundown of what clemas is clemas was built in 1968 uh or formulated in 1968 by the county and uh several police departments bloomfield township being one of the original uh groups and it's a way for us to data share amongst law enforcement agencies uh to solve crimes and serve our community unfortunately that was built in 1968 and has

  10. Is there a motion to approve the consent agenda? I'd like to remove three items, the board minutes, the replacement boiler, and payroll and vouchers. Okay, go from the beginning again, Mark. Mark, which ones? A, D, F, F. Okay, A, D, and F. So we'll make those items number 10A, 10B, and 10C. Okay, and is there a motion to approve the consent agenda, minus the items Mark as asked? So moved. And support? Support. All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Okay, that passes. Seven to nothing. Okay, thank you. Item number three, consider approval of the Clemens Authority Formation Interlocal Agreement presented by our chief. of police james gallagher welcome jim good evening uh thanks for letting us come today um with me is beau chang uh beau is what we'll call the interim director of clemas now and just i'll give you a real brief rundown of what clemas is clemas was built in 1968 uh or formulated in 1968 by the county and uh several police departments bloomfield township being one of the original uh groups and it's a way for us to data share amongst law enforcement agencies uh to solve crimes and serve our community unfortunately that was built in 1968 and has never been modernized uh oakland county's uh it department is where clemas fell under the oakland county as a whole has been supplementing clemas for the last um for several million dollars for the last several years which is just not a sustainable model anymore for clemas under that we have myself the chief keller from white lake along with clemas and several other communities uh created a committee to figure out what we could do about this um and we're proposing that we turn clemas into a local authority uh that that being a public authority still uh and that funding would come from uh the initial funding to help us modernize clemas oakland county will be at wednesday will be in front of the board of commissioners uh requesting money for that so in front of you uh and i think was included in your board packet is an interlocal agreement for bloomfield township and white lake uh to partner with oakland county to be to establish the authority um anthony or tony and i have been going in front of you and i have been going back and forth with it uh he He has reviewed this interlocal agreement. White Lake signed on it about two weeks ago, I think it was. And we're asking tonight that Bloomfield Township, again, continues to be the leader in Clemmas and move forward in creating the authority. Thank you. Any questions for the chief?

  11. uh to solve crimes and serve our community unfortunately that was built in 1968 and has never been modernized uh oakland county's uh it department is where clemas fell under the oakland county as a whole has been supplementing clemas for the last um for several million dollars for the last several years which is just not a sustainable model anymore for clemas under that we have myself the chief keller from white lake along with clemas and several other communities uh created a committee to figure out what we could do about this um and we're proposing that we turn clemas into a local authority uh that that being a public authority still uh and that funding would come from uh the initial funding to help us modernize clemas oakland county will be at wednesday will be in front of the board of commissioners uh requesting money for that so in front of you uh and i think was included in your board packet is an interlocal agreement for bloomfield township and white lake uh to partner with oakland county to be to establish the authority um anthony or tony and i have been going in front of you and i have been going back and forth with it uh he He has reviewed this interlocal agreement. White Lake signed on it about two weeks ago, I think it was. And we're asking tonight that Bloomfield Township, again, continues to be the leader in Clemmas and move forward in creating the authority. Thank you. Any questions for the chief? How does Clemmas benefit the township? Clemmas is a data-sharing, law enforcement, public safety platform. So our fire departments are on it. In fact, just about almost all of Oakland County agencies are on it. All of Oakland County agencies are on it. It also spreads out to the greater Detroit area. Going to the authority, Mark, allows us to actually modernize and sell Clemmas as a vendor instead of keeping it so tight in-house. But we're able to share data with several communities. I think there's 40? We have about 250 agencies. 250 agencies on it that we are able to share our data with. They don't get the narrative portions of our report. But an example I can use is if Bloomfield Township is experiencing larceny from autos, people breaking into cars overnight, we can go onto that computer system right away and see that Troy had the same problem last night, that Wes Bloomfield had the same problem last night. And we're able to coordinate those resources. Instead of making individual phone calls, we can gather that all. If I'm involved in several incidents or several incidents at my house as an Oakland County resident, that area of agency.

  12. Any questions for the chief? How does Clemmas benefit the township? Clemmas is a data-sharing, law enforcement, public safety platform. So our fire departments are on it. In fact, just about almost all of Oakland County agencies are on it. All of Oakland County agencies are on it. It also spreads out to the greater Detroit area. Going to the authority, Mark, allows us to actually modernize and sell Clemmas as a vendor instead of keeping it so tight in-house. But we're able to share data with several communities. I think there's 40? We have about 250 agencies. 250 agencies on it that we are able to share our data with. They don't get the narrative portions of our report. But an example I can use is if Bloomfield Township is experiencing larceny from autos, people breaking into cars overnight, we can go onto that computer system right away and see that Troy had the same problem last night, that Wes Bloomfield had the same problem last night. And we're able to coordinate those resources. Instead of making individual phone calls, we can gather that all. If I'm involved in several incidents or several incidents at my house as an Oakland County resident, that area of agency. can run my address and see how many times they've been to our residence. We use it for our co-responders. They now have access to our Clemmas system. So that information data sharing is unique across this country. There's no other system like Clemmas, and we're hoping to be able to expand it throughout the rest of the state. Is there – what's the cost of the system? The cost of the system for us – we pay an annual fee, and we always have. Bo, do you know the cost per user right now? Mark, it's really got an antiquated system on how we did it. We're an original member, so we pay a certain price per user. And I think our total cost is about – I don't want to be quoted on it. I think it's about $60,000 a year that we pay. But it's a per-user fee. Compared to all the competitors of Clemmas, it's extremely affordable for the township. In agencies, some of our competitors in the Clemmas system would be unaffordable for smaller agencies. Is there – can we get any reimbursement from the county for participating? No, that's the problem. No, that's the problem, is that every agency is required, based on the number of users they have to be part of Clemmas.

  13. can run my address and see how many times they've been to our residence. We use it for our co-responders. They now have access to our Clemmas system. So that information data sharing is unique across this country. There's no other system like Clemmas, and we're hoping to be able to expand it throughout the rest of the state. Is there – what's the cost of the system? The cost of the system for us – we pay an annual fee, and we always have. Bo, do you know the cost per user right now? Mark, it's really got an antiquated system on how we did it. We're an original member, so we pay a certain price per user. And I think our total cost is about – I don't want to be quoted on it. I think it's about $60,000 a year that we pay. But it's a per-user fee. Compared to all the competitors of Clemmas, it's extremely affordable for the township. In agencies, some of our competitors in the Clemmas system would be unaffordable for smaller agencies. Is there – can we get any reimbursement from the county for participating? No, that's the problem. No, that's the problem, is that every agency is required, based on the number of users they have to be part of Clemmas. Oakland County has been supplementing it for years, in the tune of about $4 million per year to do it. So, for us, if we were to go with another company, another vendor, the cost would be astronomical for us. Okay, thank you. Chief? Yeah. And then, Chief, of course, by being a pioneer and being part of this, it certainly helps our residents as far as safety. Having that data is very important for the safety and for you and the command staff to make decisions on, you know, as far as the safety of our residents, where to deploy police as far as detectives, police. So, I mean, it's just very, very important that we have this. 100 percent, Neil. And I think I equated at the Board of Trustees or at the Board of Commissioners meeting, without us, without Clemence, it would be like me giving somebody a computer or a laptop with no word processing, no data at all on it. For us to have, there are counties that can't wait to come into Clemence, but because of the outdated, you know, because it's not modernized, we've really siloed Clemence into an Oakland County and just outside Oakland

  14. based on the number of users they have to be part of Clemmas. Oakland County has been supplementing it for years, in the tune of about $4 million per year to do it. So, for us, if we were to go with another company, another vendor, the cost would be astronomical for us. Okay, thank you. Chief? Yeah. And then, Chief, of course, by being a pioneer and being part of this, it certainly helps our residents as far as safety. Having that data is very important for the safety and for you and the command staff to make decisions on, you know, as far as the safety of our residents, where to deploy police as far as detectives, police. So, I mean, it's just very, very important that we have this. 100 percent, Neil. And I think I equated at the Board of Trustees or at the Board of Commissioners meeting, without us, without Clemence, it would be like me giving somebody a computer or a laptop with no word processing, no data at all on it. For us to have, there are counties that can't wait to come into Clemence, but because of the outdated, you know, because it's not modernized, we've really siloed Clemence into an Oakland County and just outside Oakland County, you know, information management system. I was just with Midland Police Department and we just presented to them, actually Bo and them were just there last week and they want to get on it. And we're trying to really expand it to our northern counties. And it's hard to explain what Clemence is unless you sit in a patrol car and reap the benefits of it. But when we, as agencies or officers, sitting in a patrol car, when Supervisor McCready was talking about the number of car crashes, that's where we get our data. data is all through Clemice. And part of that data, when DNR comes up, is part of that data we were able to gather from the West Bloomfield crashes, the Farmington Hills crashes, us. I think Southfield and Birmingham might be on that data. And so that's where we get all that information. Thank you. Just a couple of comments. I'm an agency that works with Clemice. And again, not only has it provided us data, it also works with our mutual aid partners. So if Bloomfield Township is on the forefront of this and being part of the early members and early adopters, we get to create the change. We get to be the change agent for it. So as it continues to evolve, we have a very front row seat at the table. That's what makes this great for the township and for our residents is we get to be a change agent for it.

  15. it's not modernized, we've really siloed Clemence into an Oakland County and just outside Oakland County, you know, information management system. I was just with Midland Police Department and we just presented to them, actually Bo and them were just there last week and they want to get on it. And we're trying to really expand it to our northern counties. And it's hard to explain what Clemence is unless you sit in a patrol car and reap the benefits of it. But when we, as agencies or officers, sitting in a patrol car, when Supervisor McCready was talking about the number of car crashes, that's where we get our data. data is all through Clemice. And part of that data, when DNR comes up, is part of that data we were able to gather from the West Bloomfield crashes, the Farmington Hills crashes, us. I think Southfield and Birmingham might be on that data. And so that's where we get all that information. Thank you. Just a couple of comments. I'm an agency that works with Clemice. And again, not only has it provided us data, it also works with our mutual aid partners. So if Bloomfield Township is on the forefront of this and being part of the early members and early adopters, we get to create the change. We get to be the change agent for it. So as it continues to evolve, we have a very front row seat at the table. That's what makes this great for the township and for our residents is we get to be a change agent for it. And again, it also works well with our mutual aid partners. So again, we talk about how we work together with all these different partners, we get to do that. And then utilize the data for resource and personnel deployment. So both police and fire, we utilize this data for that. So whether it's hiring, whether it's different types of crashes or how we're going to deploy our resources, this is where we use it. So this is a great thing for us to do, and I'm glad we were able to be part of it. Great. Yeah, Mark, go ahead. How is it managed? Well, Mo, do you want to answer how the management portion, if it's going to work? Yeah, absolutely. Are you talking about today or in the future? I guess that's really what we're talking about. Yeah, so today is under the Department of IT for Oakland County. so the authority proposal it will be independent governance process. So it will still be a government agency, so all the public acts we have to follow and et cetera, but basically it will have its own executive director and the management team and then a governance that is basically made up of the board of directors that are part of the participation. So Bluefin Township would have a seat on the board in that process as well as other agencies joining onto the authority. So how many members of the executive committee? Nine. And will we always have a seat? I'm sorry, what was that? Will we always be one of those times?

  16. and for our residents is we get to be a change agent for it. And again, it also works well with our mutual aid partners. So again, we talk about how we work together with all these different partners, we get to do that. And then utilize the data for resource and personnel deployment. So both police and fire, we utilize this data for that. So whether it's hiring, whether it's different types of crashes or how we're going to deploy our resources, this is where we use it. So this is a great thing for us to do, and I'm glad we were able to be part of it. Great. Yeah, Mark, go ahead. How is it managed? Well, Mo, do you want to answer how the management portion, if it's going to work? Yeah, absolutely. Are you talking about today or in the future? I guess that's really what we're talking about. Yeah, so today is under the Department of IT for Oakland County. so the authority proposal it will be independent governance process. So it will still be a government agency, so all the public acts we have to follow and et cetera, but basically it will have its own executive director and the management team and then a governance that is basically made up of the board of directors that are part of the participation. So Bluefin Township would have a seat on the board in that process as well as other agencies joining onto the authority. So how many members of the executive committee? Nine. And will we always have a seat? I'm sorry, what was that? Will we always be one of those times? So the seat changes every four years because of term. And then what we want to do is basically have a staggered in the beginning of the process. So if you look at our membership today, we have about 250 members in the process. So that executive committee is obviously very important for the overall governance of kind of the authority process. But the day-to-day is really with, you know, the local chiefs that we're working with as well as the executive team on a day-to-day basis. Okay. So how do you get on the executive committee? You'll be selected, appointed. Who does the appointing? David Coulter or whoever the executive, the county executive director is. Okay. So the county executive would have the authority to appoint all the members? Correct. Yep. Okay. So we don't, we're not guaranteed to have a seat? Correct. Yeah. In the future, is it? Yeah. Correct. We're going to have one at the beginning? Yes. Correct. Yep. Okay. Okay. That's good. Mark? Sorry. Two questions. So I noted the same thing that Treasurer Showstack did with regard to control. Uh, The county executive is appointing 15 of the members of the board, which is almost all of them, and almost all of the executive committee as well. You're comfortable with that, Chief? I am comfortable with that. And we can be reselected to be on that board as well.

  17. I'm sorry, what was that? Will we always be one of those times? So the seat changes every four years because of term. And then what we want to do is basically have a staggered in the beginning of the process. So if you look at our membership today, we have about 250 members in the process. So that executive committee is obviously very important for the overall governance of kind of the authority process. But the day-to-day is really with, you know, the local chiefs that we're working with as well as the executive team on a day-to-day basis. Okay. So how do you get on the executive committee? You'll be selected, appointed. Who does the appointing? David Coulter or whoever the executive, the county executive director is. Okay. So the county executive would have the authority to appoint all the members? Correct. Yep. Okay. So we don't, we're not guaranteed to have a seat? Correct. Yeah. In the future, is it? Yeah. Correct. We're going to have one at the beginning? Yes. Correct. Yep. Okay. Okay. That's good. Mark? Sorry. Two questions. So I noted the same thing that Treasurer Showstack did with regard to control. Uh, The county executive is appointing 15 of the members of the board, which is almost all of them, and almost all of the executive committee as well. You're comfortable with that, Chief? I am comfortable with that. And we can be reselected to be on that board as well. It's because of the number of agencies. One of the problems we run into is that there's agencies like Lenawee or Livingston County is part of this. Well, currently under the current structure, they're not supplementing Oakland County any additional money, while Oakland County as a whole is paying for that process, right? And so creating that authority, I am comfortable with that. The way that it's set up now is there is an advisory council now. And we control, and I'm on that council now, and we've always had members on that council. So I think it really is going to depend when, you know, whoever the county executive makes those boards. We, as a law enforcement community, know how important Clemence is. Nobody's going to want it to change, and the affordability behind it, right? Again, we can go to a separate vendor, and there's the integration and the communication between our computer-aided dispatch and our report management system, and all that data may not communicate. We're getting it to that point now where we've allowed outside vendors in, but really it's the modernization that we're concerned about, and Oakland County not being the only ones that are supplementing the cost behind it.

  18. And we can be reselected to be on that board as well. It's because of the number of agencies. One of the problems we run into is that there's agencies like Lenawee or Livingston County is part of this. Well, currently under the current structure, they're not supplementing Oakland County any additional money, while Oakland County as a whole is paying for that process, right? And so creating that authority, I am comfortable with that. The way that it's set up now is there is an advisory council now. And we control, and I'm on that council now, and we've always had members on that council. So I think it really is going to depend when, you know, whoever the county executive makes those boards. We, as a law enforcement community, know how important Clemence is. Nobody's going to want it to change, and the affordability behind it, right? Again, we can go to a separate vendor, and there's the integration and the communication between our computer-aided dispatch and our report management system, and all that data may not communicate. We're getting it to that point now where we've allowed outside vendors in, but really it's the modernization that we're concerned about, and Oakland County not being the only ones that are supplementing the cost behind it. it the entire time okay thanks one last question or a request which is a to change the agreement within one area it's minor but could be very important so the notice to Bloomfield Township is simply mailed to the township at 4200 Telegraph Road as you may know it goes into a mail room we don't really know who when they're addressed like that who they really end up at and we may lose that so I just suggest that it says similar to White Lake the White Lake notice goes to the White Lake Police Department I think our notice should go to the White Lake Police Department and the local township supervisor specifically just a general address who knows where that notice will go I don't someone ten years from now I will never see it so if we could change that that'd be great White Lake was smart they've got that okay any other any other questions if not entertain a motion similar the chief of police or the police department I think they should one it's fine with me yeah they monitor it so that's man the mail goes to the to all comes to our office yeah but is it better to address it to the chief of police for Bloomfield Township and the supervisor or the police department in general what would you prefer if you had a seat on the

  19. it the entire time okay thanks one last question or a request which is a to change the agreement within one area it's minor but could be very important so the notice to Bloomfield Township is simply mailed to the township at 4200 Telegraph Road as you may know it goes into a mail room we don't really know who when they're addressed like that who they really end up at and we may lose that so I just suggest that it says similar to White Lake the White Lake notice goes to the White Lake Police Department I think our notice should go to the White Lake Police Department and the local township supervisor specifically just a general address who knows where that notice will go I don't someone ten years from now I will never see it so if we could change that that'd be great White Lake was smart they've got that okay any other any other questions if not entertain a motion similar the chief of police or the police department I think they should one it's fine with me yeah they monitor it so that's man the mail goes to the to all comes to our office yeah but is it better to address it to the chief of police for Bloomfield Township and the supervisor or the police department in general what would you prefer if you had a seat on the well it goes to Lorde right your all the mail comes to the administration so all the mail comes right to the administration so whether they put chief of police on it or not it's going to come to my office or order my administrative assistant picks up all the emails from police and goes right to jim i don't mind if it's if it says bluefield township police department we're getting it okay yeah it doesn't go down to the peat main city it comes up upstairs yeah okay so is there support approved with that amendment support yes yes with that amendment yes support all in favor say aye aye any opposed best of nothing thank you do we have to have the amendment um formally read with the approval no i think we have it in the minutes okay all right item number four uh discuss the deer nuisance and options for control uh control chad stewart michigan dnr welcome chat you want to come on up and do you have a powerpoint he does sean will help oh yeah go go to that one you'll see the powerpoint yeah thanks for being here chad i want to also just recognize your help that you've just in getting this far you've helped us understand the issue and what some options are we're really help happier here um you know you've got a lot of things on your plate and uh we appreciate

  20. the police department in general what would you prefer if you had a seat on the well it goes to Lorde right your all the mail comes to the administration so all the mail comes right to the administration so whether they put chief of police on it or not it's going to come to my office or order my administrative assistant picks up all the emails from police and goes right to jim i don't mind if it's if it says bluefield township police department we're getting it okay yeah it doesn't go down to the peat main city it comes up upstairs yeah okay so is there support approved with that amendment support yes yes with that amendment yes support all in favor say aye aye any opposed best of nothing thank you do we have to have the amendment um formally read with the approval no i think we have it in the minutes okay all right item number four uh discuss the deer nuisance and options for control uh control chad stewart michigan dnr welcome chat you want to come on up and do you have a powerpoint he does sean will help oh yeah go go to that one you'll see the powerpoint yeah thanks for being here chad i want to also just recognize your help that you've just in getting this far you've helped us understand the issue and what some options are we're really help happier here um you know you've got a lot of things on your plate and uh we appreciate it yeah no um good evening yeah and thank you for the invite um both supervisor mccready clerk brooke i appreciate the opportunity to be here uh my name is chad stewart i've been a deer biologist with the michigan dnr now for about 10 years and we've restructured a little bit so i'm in a slightly different position but still very much involved with whitetail deer management for the state and in the department of natural resources i also want to acknowledge my colleague who's here uh kara colton who is the wildlife biologist who oversees uh bloomfield township and several other communities so also has uh experience with urban deer management um in her past um spot stops as well so um feel free to introduce yourself to her and get to know her as well um yes i was invited here to talk about um urban deer management um really when i have these discussions with communities you know i i tend to sort of focus on three different options one is the the biology of white-tailed deer two is the process that a community should you know consider when entertaining the idea of moving forward with any type of urban deer management and three what

  21. we're really help happier here um you know you've got a lot of things on your plate and uh we appreciate it yeah no um good evening yeah and thank you for the invite um both supervisor mccready clerk brooke i appreciate the opportunity to be here uh my name is chad stewart i've been a deer biologist with the michigan dnr now for about 10 years and we've restructured a little bit so i'm in a slightly different position but still very much involved with whitetail deer management for the state and in the department of natural resources i also want to acknowledge my colleague who's here uh kara colton who is the wildlife biologist who oversees uh bloomfield township and several other communities so also has uh experience with urban deer management um in her past um spot stops as well so um feel free to introduce yourself to her and get to know her as well um yes i was invited here to talk about um urban deer management um really when i have these discussions with communities you know i i tend to sort of focus on three different options one is the the biology of white-tailed deer two is the process that a community should you know consider when entertaining the idea of moving forward with any type of urban deer management and three what everybody's really interested in is is the options um but i i have a very deliberate way of going through this because the the options are something that need to be considered once you determine what the goals of the community are and that is really best identified through the process but before we get to that i wanted to talk just a little bit about the biology of of white-tailed deer and some of the things you're seeing and why it's different here than maybe in other places that that might be more rural um really what i want to focus on with white-tailed deer is is there what i what we as biologists call survival you know what is their annual survival rate um in in these urban communities and when we talk about urban deer versus rural deer you know it's not that they're different species but their life histories are very very different if you go and walk outside your house and look at a deer it will probably look at you and it might even come towards you because some people might be feeding it you do not get that same sort of behavior and experience if you're on a state game area those deer are running the other way because they view humans as a threat in these rural settings so what you tend to see are higher survival rates in these

  22. entertaining the idea of moving forward with any type of urban deer management and three what everybody's really interested in is is the options um but i i have a very deliberate way of going through this because the the options are something that need to be considered once you determine what the goals of the community are and that is really best identified through the process but before we get to that i wanted to talk just a little bit about the biology of of white-tailed deer and some of the things you're seeing and why it's different here than maybe in other places that that might be more rural um really what i want to focus on with white-tailed deer is is there what i what we as biologists call survival you know what is their annual survival rate um in in these urban communities and when we talk about urban deer versus rural deer you know it's not that they're different species but their life histories are very very different if you go and walk outside your house and look at a deer it will probably look at you and it might even come towards you because some people might be feeding it you do not get that same sort of behavior and experience if you're on a state game area those deer are running the other way because they view humans as a threat in these rural settings so what you tend to see are higher survival rates in these urban communities i've seen reports as high as 87 percent that's simply because traditional management tools do not exist in many of these communities so we cannot be as effective with management and deer populations what they really want to do is grow to what i'll touch on lately is what we call their biological caring capacity and that growth rate tends to be once it gets to a certain point it becomes exponential if anybody's ever familiar with like an exponential curve it essentially increases at an accelerating rate and that's a lot of what these communities in southeast michigan are starting to likely experience so how does it get to that um you know exponential growth growth rate it all comes from reproduction uh we tend to see increased reproduction in urban in urban uh uh areas because they simply have more resources available to them. We have seen again reports as high as 1.8 fawns per adult doe and additionally you don't see reproductive senescence.

  23. as a threat in these rural settings so what you tend to see are higher survival rates in these urban communities i've seen reports as high as 87 percent that's simply because traditional management tools do not exist in many of these communities so we cannot be as effective with management and deer populations what they really want to do is grow to what i'll touch on lately is what we call their biological caring capacity and that growth rate tends to be once it gets to a certain point it becomes exponential if anybody's ever familiar with like an exponential curve it essentially increases at an accelerating rate and that's a lot of what these communities in southeast michigan are starting to likely experience so how does it get to that um you know exponential growth growth rate it all comes from reproduction uh we tend to see increased reproduction in urban in urban uh uh areas because they simply have more resources available to them. We have seen again reports as high as 1.8 fawns per adult doe and additionally you don't see reproductive senescence. There's no such thing as menopause in female white-tailed deer. So in addition to that, the cute little fawns that you were seeing this summer, you know the ones that are balled up, maybe in your garden bed, in the forest, wherever, if they can get to be about 80 pounds by about December, they can actually come into estrus and breed themselves. So you're looking at a species now that can breed very early. They have multiple young every year, two for most adult does. You'll probably see many does walking around with three fawns as well. That is not uncommon. And they are long-lived and they never stop breeding as they age. That is the perfect recipe for how deer population or any wildlife population can grow. And then we talk about home range size. And home range size is essentially the area that an individual is living throughout their year. What we typically see in urban deer are much smaller home ranges. And again, that means they have all the resources that they need in a much smaller area. They don't need to wander around large edges.

  24. see reproductive senescence. There's no such thing as menopause in female white-tailed deer. So in addition to that, the cute little fawns that you were seeing this summer, you know the ones that are balled up, maybe in your garden bed, in the forest, wherever, if they can get to be about 80 pounds by about December, they can actually come into estrus and breed themselves. So you're looking at a species now that can breed very early. They have multiple young every year, two for most adult does. You'll probably see many does walking around with three fawns as well. That is not uncommon. And they are long-lived and they never stop breeding as they age. That is the perfect recipe for how deer population or any wildlife population can grow. And then we talk about home range size. And home range size is essentially the area that an individual is living throughout their year. What we typically see in urban deer are much smaller home ranges. And again, that means they have all the resources that they need in a much smaller area. They don't need to wander around large edges. areas and expend calories and resources to get all the food that they need they can get all that yearly caloric intake safety water you name it from a very small area so again that lends itself to higher deer densities because you're packing them in in tighter areas so this is sort of what you're seeing in an urban setting with white-tailed deer is anybody familiar with the george reserve george reserve is a research area that's actually owned by the university of michigan and some of the most landmark studies on white-tailed deer populations occurred right here in michigan in 1928 six deer were put into this two square mile pen called the george reserve two males and four females and two males maybe if it works there by 1934 there were 180 deer in that pen so in six short years that deer herd went from six to 180. it then went to 222 in 1935 so one year later what's fascinating about this is that this study was

  25. areas and expend calories and resources to get all the food that they need they can get all that yearly caloric intake safety water you name it from a very small area so again that lends itself to higher deer densities because you're packing them in in tighter areas so this is sort of what you're seeing in an urban setting with white-tailed deer is anybody familiar with the george reserve george reserve is a research area that's actually owned by the university of michigan and some of the most landmark studies on white-tailed deer populations occurred right here in michigan in 1928 six deer were put into this two square mile pen called the george reserve two males and four females and two males maybe if it works there by 1934 there were 180 deer in that pen so in six short years that deer herd went from six to 180. it then went to 222 in 1935 so one year later what's fascinating about this is that this study was replicated in the 70s in 1975 a researcher named dale mccullough put 10 deer in this exact same facility and by 1981 there were e e e e So it really shows the growth potential for white-tailed deer in small areas when they have optimal conditions available to them. And yes, there are 180 deer in there exactly. The other thing you're seeing with white-tailed deer is a changing landscape. And their ability to adapt to that landscape is really unparalleled. So what you're seeing here is an aerial photo. Granted, this is from a location from my previous stop when I was a deer biologist in Indiana. So this is an Indiana aerial from 1999. And what you see, fairly rural setting. You see a lot of large farm fields. You see a river corridor running through there. But what happens about 10 years later is that area completely changes. Now you have golf courses. You have these small neighborhoods throughout. And from a deer standpoint, this is actually an improvement.

  26. to 180. it then went to 222 in 1935 so one year later what's fascinating about this is that this study was replicated in the 70s in 1975 a researcher named dale mccullough put 10 deer in this exact same facility and by 1981 there were e e e e So it really shows the growth potential for white-tailed deer in small areas when they have optimal conditions available to them. And yes, there are 180 deer in there exactly. The other thing you're seeing with white-tailed deer is a changing landscape. And their ability to adapt to that landscape is really unparalleled. So what you're seeing here is an aerial photo. Granted, this is from a location from my previous stop when I was a deer biologist in Indiana. So this is an Indiana aerial from 1999. And what you see, fairly rural setting. You see a lot of large farm fields. You see a river corridor running through there. But what happens about 10 years later is that area completely changes. Now you have golf courses. You have these small neighborhoods throughout. And from a deer standpoint, this is actually an improvement. Most people think of deer walking through a soybean field and a corn field. And it's true. Deer absolutely love those areas. But typically what comes in those rural settings also is hunting and management. In this sort of situation, you don't see that. So right now, these deer might no longer have access to corn and soybeans. But there's plenty of clover. There's plenty of hostas. There's plenty of hostas. There's plenty of hostas. arborvitaes there's plenty of you name it and i'm sure many people in this room have experience and can probably rattle off more plant species that they have available to them than i can one of the considerations with deer management is this idea of of biological caring capacity and social caring capacity and this is where urban deer management becomes extremely polarizing extremely tricky for any decision maker so when we talk about biological caring capacity we talk about how many deer can the land support and i will tell you that we should not be managing for the maximum number of deer because when you manage for deer at maximum biological caring capacity they're living but they're not thriving they tend to be showing declining

  27. And from a deer standpoint, this is actually an improvement. Most people think of deer walking through a soybean field and a corn field. And it's true. Deer absolutely love those areas. But typically what comes in those rural settings also is hunting and management. In this sort of situation, you don't see that. So right now, these deer might no longer have access to corn and soybeans. But there's plenty of clover. There's plenty of hostas. There's plenty of hostas. There's plenty of hostas. arborvitaes there's plenty of you name it and i'm sure many people in this room have experience and can probably rattle off more plant species that they have available to them than i can one of the considerations with deer management is this idea of of biological caring capacity and social caring capacity and this is where urban deer management becomes extremely polarizing extremely tricky for any decision maker so when we talk about biological caring capacity we talk about how many deer can the land support and i will tell you that we should not be managing for the maximum number of deer because when you manage for deer at maximum biological caring capacity they're living but they're not thriving they tend to be showing declining condition their reproductive responses starts to wane you start to see higher fawn mortality you start to introduce sickness and social stresses so biological caring capacity while it's certainly a consideration we never want to really max that out the other idea is social caring capacity and that simply is how many animals are people willing to tolerate before they become viewed as a nuisance as a nuisance and those are two very different numbers and perspectives so i i borrowed this slide from a researcher with michigan state university uh dr sean riley because i thought it really you don't you they don't know don't know you illustrates the challenges that communities face really well. So here you've got two different, he's got it labeled as acceptance capacities. We'll call it social tolerance or social caring capacity and that's because there is no sort of one-size-fits-all social caring capacity. There are people in this room that probably are not seeing enough deer. There are people in this room that are seeing way too many deer for their liking. That's why you have different acceptance capacities along the way. In each instance, especially in southern

  28. caring capacity they're living but they're not thriving they tend to be showing declining condition their reproductive responses starts to wane you start to see higher fawn mortality you start to introduce sickness and social stresses so biological caring capacity while it's certainly a consideration we never want to really max that out the other idea is social caring capacity and that simply is how many animals are people willing to tolerate before they become viewed as a nuisance as a nuisance and those are two very different numbers and perspectives so i i borrowed this slide from a researcher with michigan state university uh dr sean riley because i thought it really you don't you they don't know don't know you illustrates the challenges that communities face really well. So here you've got two different, he's got it labeled as acceptance capacities. We'll call it social tolerance or social caring capacity and that's because there is no sort of one-size-fits-all social caring capacity. There are people in this room that probably are not seeing enough deer. There are people in this room that are seeing way too many deer for their liking. That's why you have different acceptance capacities along the way. In each instance, especially in southern Michigan, the number of deer that an area can hold is probably more. And typically what we see is that people get fed up of deer before biological caring capacity is reached. So when we talk about deer management and everybody's saying like there's a lot of deer, we're starting to see conflicts, this community probably can hold more. That's just how efficient whitetail deer are in terms of pulling nutrients out of their environment, out of the landscape, etc. So what you see over time is how a deer population may change. And as you start to go up that that line from where it meets the the intersection of the wildlife population and time, deer population can grow very quickly. And when it's in the green, people are happy with deer, right? They think there's the appropriate number of deer, they like that. Yet there's more people in the community that say, I would like to see more deer, there's not enough deer. Well, that deer population will continue to grow and once it's in the blue line, those people who previously said, I would like to see more, now are happy, they're seeing more deer.

  29. acceptance capacities along the way. In each instance, especially in southern Michigan, the number of deer that an area can hold is probably more. And typically what we see is that people get fed up of deer before biological caring capacity is reached. So when we talk about deer management and everybody's saying like there's a lot of deer, we're starting to see conflicts, this community probably can hold more. That's just how efficient whitetail deer are in terms of pulling nutrients out of their environment, out of the landscape, etc. So what you see over time is how a deer population may change. And as you start to go up that that line from where it meets the the intersection of the wildlife population and time, deer population can grow very quickly. And when it's in the green, people are happy with deer, right? They think there's the appropriate number of deer, they like that. Yet there's more people in the community that say, I would like to see more deer, there's not enough deer. Well, that deer population will continue to grow and once it's in the blue line, those people who previously said, I would like to see more, now are happy, they're seeing more deer. But now the people that are in green, that have a lower acceptance capacity, think there are too many. And this is where the polarization of white-tailed deer management comes in. Because there are different views and perspectives in terms of how many deer should be in the environment. And meanwhile, the deer are going to do what they're going to do. Once they hit biological carrying capacity, their numbers probably will come back down in typically some sort of catastrophic event. They'll see some sort of hemorrhagic disease outbreak, which is going on in certain counties in southern Michigan right now. You'll start to see poor nutrition, poor fawn survival. Their numbers just simply will stop growing. Their population will come down a little bit, which will give the habitat an opportunity to recover. And then the deer population will go back up again. And that's the cycle that we tend to see when managing at a biological carrying capacity. So typically when communities come to us and ask about deer management, there's only a handful of things that they're considering when they come forward. And I heard a few of them here today. There's there's concerns over Lyme disease and Lyme disease. 132,0001,0502,0502,0603,321,0601,1190. There's water and the water on the ground. And there's an amount of fewer milligrams per cent. It's very delicate, it's как бы munculировать. There's good sails over maintainability Song Dang 420 grandpa.

  30. those people who previously said, I would like to see more, now are happy, they're seeing more deer. But now the people that are in green, that have a lower acceptance capacity, think there are too many. And this is where the polarization of white-tailed deer management comes in. Because there are different views and perspectives in terms of how many deer should be in the environment. And meanwhile, the deer are going to do what they're going to do. Once they hit biological carrying capacity, their numbers probably will come back down in typically some sort of catastrophic event. They'll see some sort of hemorrhagic disease outbreak, which is going on in certain counties in southern Michigan right now. You'll start to see poor nutrition, poor fawn survival. Their numbers just simply will stop growing. Their population will come down a little bit, which will give the habitat an opportunity to recover. And then the deer population will go back up again. And that's the cycle that we tend to see when managing at a biological carrying capacity. So typically when communities come to us and ask about deer management, there's only a handful of things that they're considering when they come forward. And I heard a few of them here today. There's there's concerns over Lyme disease and Lyme disease. 132,0001,0502,0502,0603,321,0601,1190. There's water and the water on the ground. And there's an amount of fewer milligrams per cent. It's very delicate, it's как бы munculировать. There's good sails over maintainability Song Dang 420 grandpa. is a complicated procedure with white-tailed deer because white-tailed deer are a role in the cycle of the deer tick and Lyme disease, but they are not responsible for, you know, giving Lyme disease to the tick. They're actually, the virus is actually picked up by field mice, but they need deer to complete that life cycle. And we are seeing increases in Lyme disease, geographic spread in Michigan, certainly in my last 10 years and certainly longer than that. We're also seeing introduction of new tick species as well. Speaking with some tick experts in Michigan State, they are starting to identify what's called a lone star tick, which is typically more of a Southern tick. And that can carry a host of different diseases as well, but that's becoming more, I guess, identified and recognized in Michigan. We see habituation there with the gentleman with the cowboy hat, animals just sort of coming up and typically not very aggressive towards humans, but can be very aggressive towards canids, especially during the fawning season in the summertime, because they are doing what good mothers do and protecting their fawns nearby.

  31. is a complicated procedure with white-tailed deer because white-tailed deer are a role in the cycle of the deer tick and Lyme disease, but they are not responsible for, you know, giving Lyme disease to the tick. They're actually, the virus is actually picked up by field mice, but they need deer to complete that life cycle. And we are seeing increases in Lyme disease, geographic spread in Michigan, certainly in my last 10 years and certainly longer than that. We're also seeing introduction of new tick species as well. Speaking with some tick experts in Michigan State, they are starting to identify what's called a lone star tick, which is typically more of a Southern tick. And that can carry a host of different diseases as well, but that's becoming more, I guess, identified and recognized in Michigan. We see habituation there with the gentleman with the cowboy hat, animals just sort of coming up and typically not very aggressive towards humans, but can be very aggressive towards canids, especially during the fawning season in the summertime, because they are doing what good mothers do and protecting their fawns nearby. Landscape damage, you see some damage to hostas. You see people covering up their beautiful flowers with netting, because otherwise those flowers will be no more. There you see a picture of a deer in a forest with very little undergrowth. understory whatsoever it's got one lone leaf hanging out of its mouth and that's a very young deer but still a little bit ribby but not a lot of food and nutrition in that forest and and certainly not a sustainably managed force for you know the next hundred years given the inadequate regeneration that you're seeing and then deer vehicle collisions is also one of the main ones that is uh really drives communities um wanting to looking for some sort of resolution uh for their for their deer conflicts so now i'm going to start moving into um sort of this process and and again um i'm going to give credit to a colleague of mine uh she was previously with the dnr and that's why i kept this uh recognition here she is now with michigan state university she's a wonderful social scientist dr emily pomeranz uh she was very involved and instrumental in new york and coming up with this concept of community-based deer management um and and decision making and her actual presentation is

  32. Landscape damage, you see some damage to hostas. You see people covering up their beautiful flowers with netting, because otherwise those flowers will be no more. There you see a picture of a deer in a forest with very little undergrowth. understory whatsoever it's got one lone leaf hanging out of its mouth and that's a very young deer but still a little bit ribby but not a lot of food and nutrition in that forest and and certainly not a sustainably managed force for you know the next hundred years given the inadequate regeneration that you're seeing and then deer vehicle collisions is also one of the main ones that is uh really drives communities um wanting to looking for some sort of resolution uh for their for their deer conflicts so now i'm going to start moving into um sort of this process and and again um i'm going to give credit to a colleague of mine uh she was previously with the dnr and that's why i kept this uh recognition here she is now with michigan state university she's a wonderful social scientist dr emily pomeranz uh she was very involved and instrumental in new york and coming up with this concept of community-based deer management um and and decision making and her actual presentation is much much longer much more in depth much more thorough i just wanted to pull some highlights out and hit some of those highlights for you today because i know there's obviously a time limitation but she identified this general cycle uh going through community-based deer management one where you define the problem two where you make the decision three when you implement or you know operationalize your your decision and then finally evaluation and adaptation very basic uh circle and and most are probably already thinking this way but But really what I wanted to bring forward and identify this first instance was this definition of a problem. Many communities start off coming to us with the question of we think we have too many deer. How many deer do we have and how many should we have? And we typically push back on that line of thinking because it's not necessarily about the number of deer or the number of deer that there should be. Because as we discussed, there's different levels and views in how that is interpreted. We can certainly bring forward the biological impact, but if that's not a consideration or concern for the community, then that's probably not a management priority. Instead, we talk about, you know, trying to measure the impacts of the deer population in the community.

  33. concept of community-based deer management um and and decision making and her actual presentation is much much longer much more in depth much more thorough i just wanted to pull some highlights out and hit some of those highlights for you today because i know there's obviously a time limitation but she identified this general cycle uh going through community-based deer management one where you define the problem two where you make the decision three when you implement or you know operationalize your your decision and then finally evaluation and adaptation very basic uh circle and and most are probably already thinking this way but But really what I wanted to bring forward and identify this first instance was this definition of a problem. Many communities start off coming to us with the question of we think we have too many deer. How many deer do we have and how many should we have? And we typically push back on that line of thinking because it's not necessarily about the number of deer or the number of deer that there should be. Because as we discussed, there's different levels and views in how that is interpreted. We can certainly bring forward the biological impact, but if that's not a consideration or concern for the community, then that's probably not a management priority. Instead, we talk about, you know, trying to measure the impacts of the deer population in the community. And this is sort of maybe a challenging concept sometimes to get your head around. But what we try to talk about is if there's a thousand deer in your community and they're not causing any problems or people don't view them as causing problems and they're tolerant of the deer vehicle collisions and tolerant of the damage that they're experiencing, just people love deer, then you really don't have a deer conflict problem because nobody's experiencing that problem. Everybody's very tolerant of the number of deer. However, if you have five deer in your community and you pride yourself on growing this rare orchid or trillium, and that's what your community is. based out of, and those five deer are preventing that orchid or trillium from growing, and it's forcing you to lose your identity, then five deer is too many in your community. So it's all based on the goals and objectives that you set. And we talked about some of those just a little bit ago. It's tick-borne illnesses, it's deer vehicle collisions, it's horticultural losses. If there's any agriculture, that's certainly a consideration as well. It could be a report from your botanist that's saying we only see five species in our understory

  34. Instead, we talk about, you know, trying to measure the impacts of the deer population in the community. And this is sort of maybe a challenging concept sometimes to get your head around. But what we try to talk about is if there's a thousand deer in your community and they're not causing any problems or people don't view them as causing problems and they're tolerant of the deer vehicle collisions and tolerant of the damage that they're experiencing, just people love deer, then you really don't have a deer conflict problem because nobody's experiencing that problem. Everybody's very tolerant of the number of deer. However, if you have five deer in your community and you pride yourself on growing this rare orchid or trillium, and that's what your community is. based out of, and those five deer are preventing that orchid or trillium from growing, and it's forcing you to lose your identity, then five deer is too many in your community. So it's all based on the goals and objectives that you set. And we talked about some of those just a little bit ago. It's tick-borne illnesses, it's deer vehicle collisions, it's horticultural losses. If there's any agriculture, that's certainly a consideration as well. It could be a report from your botanist that's saying we only see five species in our understory in our parks anymore, and three of them are invasive or exotics. It's not a healthy forest any longer. These are all things that the community has to sort of understand and determine what is the priority and how we can manage for it. And once those goals are set, then we can start discussing what the management options are. So we try to break things down into goals or objectives, and from my 20,000-foot view, if a community comes forward and says, we've seen an increase of deer vehicle collisions by 50% over the last 10 years, and these are just my makeup numbers for a hypothetical situation. I don't know what Bloomfield Township is experiencing, but if we're seeing this and we ultimately think that's too many, we want to reduce the number of deer vehicle collisions by, we want to reduce the number of deer vehicle collisions. That's a goal. Now, we can further refine that with an objective. We want to reduce those deer vehicle collisions by 25 percent over the next three years. That's something that is a measurable outcome that you can start to monitor and determine

  35. It could be a report from your botanist that's saying we only see five species in our understory in our parks anymore, and three of them are invasive or exotics. It's not a healthy forest any longer. These are all things that the community has to sort of understand and determine what is the priority and how we can manage for it. And once those goals are set, then we can start discussing what the management options are. So we try to break things down into goals or objectives, and from my 20,000-foot view, if a community comes forward and says, we've seen an increase of deer vehicle collisions by 50% over the last 10 years, and these are just my makeup numbers for a hypothetical situation. I don't know what Bloomfield Township is experiencing, but if we're seeing this and we ultimately think that's too many, we want to reduce the number of deer vehicle collisions by, we want to reduce the number of deer vehicle collisions. That's a goal. Now, we can further refine that with an objective. We want to reduce those deer vehicle collisions by 25 percent over the next three years. That's something that is a measurable outcome that you can start to monitor and determine the efficacy of your management program. And then it also helps with the management options that we'll be talking about here in just a minute because you want to try to align your management options to meet your goals and objectives. One consideration that communities have done in the past is they've formed citizen advisory committees to really vet and evaluate these, to come up with goals and objectives and get those cleared within their community. Some communities say, I think we're far enough along where we can just move forward with it. So from our perspective, the management agency, we can provide a lot of flexibility in terms of a management response. You know, there are a few things that we ask you to consider, and that's really to sort of protect us for your action and protect yourselves for your action to make sure that this idea has been vetted thoroughly and appropriately. And you're starting to see that in several communities in the southeast right now. Many of you have probably seen that Southfield and Farmington Hills are starting to take some action and have gone through a fairly elaborate process. So let's talk about really quickly some of the management

  36. That's something that is a measurable outcome that you can start to monitor and determine the efficacy of your management program. And then it also helps with the management options that we'll be talking about here in just a minute because you want to try to align your management options to meet your goals and objectives. One consideration that communities have done in the past is they've formed citizen advisory committees to really vet and evaluate these, to come up with goals and objectives and get those cleared within their community. Some communities say, I think we're far enough along where we can just move forward with it. So from our perspective, the management agency, we can provide a lot of flexibility in terms of a management response. You know, there are a few things that we ask you to consider, and that's really to sort of protect us for your action and protect yourselves for your action to make sure that this idea has been vetted thoroughly and appropriately. And you're starting to see that in several communities in the southeast right now. Many of you have probably seen that Southfield and Farmington Hills are starting to take some action and have gone through a fairly elaborate process. So let's talk about really quickly some of the management options that are available to communities and I will preface this by saying there are pros and cons with every one of these if there was sort of a magic solution that was cost-effective and non-controversial and very quick and made everybody happy there would be no such thing as urban deer conflicts because everyone would just choose that option but we don't live in that world and that's why this is very complicated the main the first option is always doing nothing that's always a consideration that's always an option community can always evaluate something and say no I don't think we have a problem we're not going to do anything there that may look like a compromise as there are some individuals in the community that think there are too many there are some community individuals in the community think there are not enough and it's certainly inexpensive you know there's no management action so there's no cost at least immediately but what I would say that the cons of that decision some are going to view that as an inaction and if there are conflicts

  37. options that are available to communities and I will preface this by saying there are pros and cons with every one of these if there was sort of a magic solution that was cost-effective and non-controversial and very quick and made everybody happy there would be no such thing as urban deer conflicts because everyone would just choose that option but we don't live in that world and that's why this is very complicated the main the first option is always doing nothing that's always a consideration that's always an option community can always evaluate something and say no I don't think we have a problem we're not going to do anything there that may look like a compromise as there are some individuals in the community that think there are too many there are some community individuals in the community think there are not enough and it's certainly inexpensive you know there's no management action so there's no cost at least immediately but what I would say that the cons of that decision some are going to view that as an inaction and if there are conflicts that are occurring I would wager to say that they will not stop they will only continue and are likely to escalate so the picture I chose for this is a picture from a long time ago in a state park and what you're seeing is a browse line So, in other words, the distance and that gap between the grass and the leaves growing on that tree matches up perfectly to the height that a deer's mouth can reach. And you can't see the inside of that forest, but I bet everyone knows what it looks like too. If you go into that forest, you're really seeing nothing green six feet and below unless it's something like garlic mustard, barberry, maybe some beech growth, very little things that deer find unpalatable. The other option is hunting. Hunting is fairly inexpensive to communities and actually can provide an economic stimulus. What I mean by that is a managed hunt within a community. Hunters generally will pay to be a part of that program. They will pay for access. They will pay to try to be a part of the solution. And hunting, lots of surveys have shown, generally supportive by many people, both hunters

  38. decision some are going to view that as an inaction and if there are conflicts that are occurring I would wager to say that they will not stop they will only continue and are likely to escalate so the picture I chose for this is a picture from a long time ago in a state park and what you're seeing is a browse line So, in other words, the distance and that gap between the grass and the leaves growing on that tree matches up perfectly to the height that a deer's mouth can reach. And you can't see the inside of that forest, but I bet everyone knows what it looks like too. If you go into that forest, you're really seeing nothing green six feet and below unless it's something like garlic mustard, barberry, maybe some beech growth, very little things that deer find unpalatable. The other option is hunting. Hunting is fairly inexpensive to communities and actually can provide an economic stimulus. What I mean by that is a managed hunt within a community. Hunters generally will pay to be a part of that program. They will pay for access. They will pay to try to be a part of the solution. And hunting, lots of surveys have shown, generally supportive by many people, both hunters and non-hunters, because it's providing food and an outlet for venison and it's going to be consumed by people. And whether that's hunters or whether that's through a donation program, generally that's appealing to a lot of individuals. There are some cons associated with hunting. I've seen communities go forward and simply create almost like a, what I would call, quote-unquote, what a good old . boys club where they just bring in their friends and buddies to come in and they just focus on bucks, which does nothing from a management perspective. Trophy hunting is typically viewed as unfavorable for many individuals, especially non-hunters. There's also local concerns often with hunting and with safety. So just simply giving hunters the opportunity for free rain to go out and shoot deer, probably not a good idea because you want to have some sort of control and management in a densely populated location. And then there's access issues. Many communities have small parcel sizes and a lot of communities that choose this option choose to go with archery. And it's difficult to shoot and recover a deer taken with, excuse me, with a bow and arrow

  39. And hunting, lots of surveys have shown, generally supportive by many people, both hunters and non-hunters, because it's providing food and an outlet for venison and it's going to be consumed by people. And whether that's hunters or whether that's through a donation program, generally that's appealing to a lot of individuals. There are some cons associated with hunting. I've seen communities go forward and simply create almost like a, what I would call, quote-unquote, what a good old . boys club where they just bring in their friends and buddies to come in and they just focus on bucks, which does nothing from a management perspective. Trophy hunting is typically viewed as unfavorable for many individuals, especially non-hunters. There's also local concerns often with hunting and with safety. So just simply giving hunters the opportunity for free rain to go out and shoot deer, probably not a good idea because you want to have some sort of control and management in a densely populated location. And then there's access issues. Many communities have small parcel sizes and a lot of communities that choose this option choose to go with archery. And it's difficult to shoot and recover a deer taken with, excuse me, with a bow and arrow on a tenth of an acre parcel or a quarter of an acre parcel because that deer typically runs 100 yards, maybe even longer before it expires. And then you come into property rights issues in terms of trailing that animal. So there can be challenges. I have seen communities implement management programs with archery fairly successfully. Meridian Township, which is the community east of East Lansing. If you're familiar with the Okemos and Hazlitt area, they have a managed archery hunt, have done so now for 10 years. But the structure of their community allows for that to happen. And they have very big park systems, they have large river corridors that allow hunters to get into those areas. They have large river corridors that allow hunters to get into those areas. And I think that I have a big park system. And I think that I do that because the mayor and of those areas, be fair. effective at managing deer and really reduce the amount of conflict that occurs. I'm not familiar with Bloomfield Township or the overlay and if that is a possibility or not, but it can be a reasonable solution in some communities. Many communities choose to go with what I just sort of call sharpshooting. Here you're hiring in professionals who are very highly skilled and highly trained and have very

  40. And it's difficult to shoot and recover a deer taken with, excuse me, with a bow and arrow on a tenth of an acre parcel or a quarter of an acre parcel because that deer typically runs 100 yards, maybe even longer before it expires. And then you come into property rights issues in terms of trailing that animal. So there can be challenges. I have seen communities implement management programs with archery fairly successfully. Meridian Township, which is the community east of East Lansing. If you're familiar with the Okemos and Hazlitt area, they have a managed archery hunt, have done so now for 10 years. But the structure of their community allows for that to happen. And they have very big park systems, they have large river corridors that allow hunters to get into those areas. They have large river corridors that allow hunters to get into those areas. And I think that I have a big park system. And I think that I do that because the mayor and of those areas, be fair. effective at managing deer and really reduce the amount of conflict that occurs. I'm not familiar with Bloomfield Township or the overlay and if that is a possibility or not, but it can be a reasonable solution in some communities. Many communities choose to go with what I just sort of call sharpshooting. Here you're hiring in professionals who are very highly skilled and highly trained and have very specialized equipment to come in and reduce a population quickly and intensively and that is one of the pros of it. So this reduces a deer population very quickly. I would argue that it is safe. These individuals are very well trained. They know how and where to remove deer and safety is always their top priority, especially if you're going with one of the reputable corporations or organizations or agencies that do this type of work. The cons, this is very expensive and I'm dating myself here. You just can't pick up a phone book, which I guess don't even exist anymore, and go to the yellow pages and find 25 sharpshooters and find the best rate and the best one. That doesn't exist. There are very few individuals or groups that do this type of work and their costs reflect that. It is also controversial, whether it's the the lethal side of things, whether it's the the economic side of things, whether it's there there's safety concerns. I can promise you that 100 of the people in your community will not be supportive of this approach but i can say that about any of these options to be honest with you one that often is brought forward is this concept of trap and either relocate or trap and remove

  41. you're hiring in professionals who are very highly skilled and highly trained and have very specialized equipment to come in and reduce a population quickly and intensively and that is one of the pros of it. So this reduces a deer population very quickly. I would argue that it is safe. These individuals are very well trained. They know how and where to remove deer and safety is always their top priority, especially if you're going with one of the reputable corporations or organizations or agencies that do this type of work. The cons, this is very expensive and I'm dating myself here. You just can't pick up a phone book, which I guess don't even exist anymore, and go to the yellow pages and find 25 sharpshooters and find the best rate and the best one. That doesn't exist. There are very few individuals or groups that do this type of work and their costs reflect that. It is also controversial, whether it's the the lethal side of things, whether it's the the economic side of things, whether it's there there's safety concerns. I can promise you that 100 of the people in your community will not be supportive of this approach but i can say that about any of these options to be honest with you one that often is brought forward is this concept of trap and either relocate or trap and remove the advantage to this is that it doesn't fire a projectile it doesn't fire a bullet to remove the deer it doesn't fire an arrow to remove the deer deer are captured and they are euthanized on site so you can remove deer in these very difficult areas where safety can be a concern but again the cons there's high stress for these deer so once these deer are captured they are very stressed out in these traps it could take time for a the individual to come in and humanely euthanize the animal again very expensive as you can imagine it takes a special skill set and i will say that relocation is not going to be an option that's something that we will draw a line in the sand on with this because when you move a deer you move the entire entire biological package that is the deer there's also a lot of stress and it also shows that studies studies have shown in the past moving deer to far areas and letting them go generally does not result in high survival for those animals so uh that's something that we will not entertain as a management agency um

  42. one that often is brought forward is this concept of trap and either relocate or trap and remove the advantage to this is that it doesn't fire a projectile it doesn't fire a bullet to remove the deer it doesn't fire an arrow to remove the deer deer are captured and they are euthanized on site so you can remove deer in these very difficult areas where safety can be a concern but again the cons there's high stress for these deer so once these deer are captured they are very stressed out in these traps it could take time for a the individual to come in and humanely euthanize the animal again very expensive as you can imagine it takes a special skill set and i will say that relocation is not going to be an option that's something that we will draw a line in the sand on with this because when you move a deer you move the entire entire biological package that is the deer there's also a lot of stress and it also shows that studies studies have shown in the past moving deer to far areas and letting them go generally does not result in high survival for those animals so uh that's something that we will not entertain as a management agency um not know of any communities that are engaging in trap and removal but it certainly could be part of the discussion i want to touch quickly on two non-lethal approaches contraception contraception was a little bit more popular in the early 2000s and was just sort of a budding technology and it gained a lot of traction initially so the pro is that again it does not fire a lethal projectile and many of these contraceptive drugs are good at preventing future fronds from being born again the cons broken record here it is expensive if you're already having a problem with too many deer you don't get that immediate result so you are not removing deer that may be causing the problem in your community and i will say with this and other non-lethal methods that it is very difficult if not impossible to achieve satisfactory results in a free-ranging deer herd and i'll talk about that a little bit when i get into sterilization but i want to give you two examples of contraception and this is going to be very quick because i don't know if it's going to be very relevant for the discussion there are two

  43. not know of any communities that are engaging in trap and removal but it certainly could be part of the discussion i want to touch quickly on two non-lethal approaches contraception contraception was a little bit more popular in the early 2000s and was just sort of a budding technology and it gained a lot of traction initially so the pro is that again it does not fire a lethal projectile and many of these contraceptive drugs are good at preventing future fronds from being born again the cons broken record here it is expensive if you're already having a problem with too many deer you don't get that immediate result so you are not removing deer that may be causing the problem in your community and i will say with this and other non-lethal methods that it is very difficult if not impossible to achieve satisfactory results in a free-ranging deer herd and i'll talk about that a little bit when i get into sterilization but i want to give you two examples of contraception and this is going to be very quick because i don't know if it's going to be very relevant for the discussion there are two two federally approved uh contraceptive drugs um currently in our in our country i will say one is called gonacon and gon The gonicon is essentially a drug that creates antibodies to the gonadotropin-releasing hormone. The gonadotropin-releasing hormone is like the precursor that initiates the development and release of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone, which basically puts deer into a reproductive state. This gonicon, you have to capture the animal and hand-in-check this drug, and then you have to boost that animal annually to continue to administer antibodies to this animal to build up the antibodies that keep it from coming into a reproductive state. Now I will say that this drug is registered through the Environmental Protection Agency as a pesticide, and as a pesticide to be eligible for use in Michigan, it has to be approved by our Department of Agriculture. That step has not been done. So this is a very high-level overview and a long way of saying that this is not an option

  44. very quick because i don't know if it's going to be very relevant for the discussion there are two two federally approved uh contraceptive drugs um currently in our in our country i will say one is called gonacon and gon The gonicon is essentially a drug that creates antibodies to the gonadotropin-releasing hormone. The gonadotropin-releasing hormone is like the precursor that initiates the development and release of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone, which basically puts deer into a reproductive state. This gonicon, you have to capture the animal and hand-in-check this drug, and then you have to boost that animal annually to continue to administer antibodies to this animal to build up the antibodies that keep it from coming into a reproductive state. Now I will say that this drug is registered through the Environmental Protection Agency as a pesticide, and as a pesticide to be eligible for use in Michigan, it has to be approved by our Department of Agriculture. That step has not been done. So this is a very high-level overview and a long way of saying that this is not an option here in Michigan, gonicon. Similar results with this other drug called Zonistat. Zonistat works a little bit differently where gonicon prevents the animal from coming into reproductive state or rutting. Zonistat prevents implantation from the sperm to the follicle to the egg. And that's very, very few mental experiences. It suits us as The zona pellucida is the layer around the egg, and basically what this injection does is it creates antibodies for that zona pellucida, so there's no site attachment. What this does is that keeps animals in a reproductive state over and over and over again until they shut it down. So every 28 days, a doe that is not bred will come back into estrus, and the rut will kick in again. This study was done using this technique up in New York, I believe up in the Ithaca area, and what they saw actually was an increase in deer vehicle collisions because all these does that were unbred or unsuccessfully bred kept attracting males into the area.

  45. So this is a very high-level overview and a long way of saying that this is not an option here in Michigan, gonicon. Similar results with this other drug called Zonistat. Zonistat works a little bit differently where gonicon prevents the animal from coming into reproductive state or rutting. Zonistat prevents implantation from the sperm to the follicle to the egg. And that's very, very few mental experiences. It suits us as The zona pellucida is the layer around the egg, and basically what this injection does is it creates antibodies for that zona pellucida, so there's no site attachment. What this does is that keeps animals in a reproductive state over and over and over again until they shut it down. So every 28 days, a doe that is not bred will come back into estrus, and the rut will kick in again. This study was done using this technique up in New York, I believe up in the Ithaca area, and what they saw actually was an increase in deer vehicle collisions because all these does that were unbred or unsuccessfully bred kept attracting males into the area. So now you're increasing deer activity that's associated with the rut in October and November and creating more of a challenge. So, but very similarly, this drug needs a booster, and again is also registered as a pesticide through the EPA, which is not approved for use in Michigan. And then I want to talk about sterilization because sterilization seems to be the new wave of non-lethal approaches or options. Again, very similar to contraception in that you're not firing a lethal projectile, and you are preventing fawns from being born, except now it's permanent. You don't have to. go in and boost that animal like you do with a contraceptive drug which takes time skill and effort but again as you can imagine sterilization very expensive again it's not removing the deer in your your community that may or may not be the problem and i will say that it's very difficult to achieve results most of you may be familiar with some of the efforts that ann arbor undertook several years ago they had a four-year project where they used both jointly lethal removal or

  46. This study was done using this technique up in New York, I believe up in the Ithaca area, and what they saw actually was an increase in deer vehicle collisions because all these does that were unbred or unsuccessfully bred kept attracting males into the area. So now you're increasing deer activity that's associated with the rut in October and November and creating more of a challenge. So, but very similarly, this drug needs a booster, and again is also registered as a pesticide through the EPA, which is not approved for use in Michigan. And then I want to talk about sterilization because sterilization seems to be the new wave of non-lethal approaches or options. Again, very similar to contraception in that you're not firing a lethal projectile, and you are preventing fawns from being born, except now it's permanent. You don't have to. go in and boost that animal like you do with a contraceptive drug which takes time skill and effort but again as you can imagine sterilization very expensive again it's not removing the deer in your your community that may or may not be the problem and i will say that it's very difficult to achieve results most of you may be familiar with some of the efforts that ann arbor undertook several years ago they had a four-year project where they used both jointly lethal removal or sharpshooting and sterilization and they actually have publications out that show that they had some success in their south study area in their north study area seeing declines in their deer population by 47 percent and 60 percent but i was i want to provide some context to that and look at the number of effort that was required to achieve those results they sterilized 78 does and they removed 432 deer so there were a lot more deer impacted from the removal side than from the sterilization side so just that's a that's a context to sort of keep in mind as you're discussing these things um typically from if you're just considering like a sterilization approach we typically require some sort of research approach with that and i will i will probably We encourage the township, if they're thinking about this, to consider alternatives. And I'm just going to sort of throw this out because it is very difficult to achieve the desired objectives with a non-lethal approach.

  47. several years ago they had a four-year project where they used both jointly lethal removal or sharpshooting and sterilization and they actually have publications out that show that they had some success in their south study area in their north study area seeing declines in their deer population by 47 percent and 60 percent but i was i want to provide some context to that and look at the number of effort that was required to achieve those results they sterilized 78 does and they removed 432 deer so there were a lot more deer impacted from the removal side than from the sterilization side so just that's a that's a context to sort of keep in mind as you're discussing these things um typically from if you're just considering like a sterilization approach we typically require some sort of research approach with that and i will i will probably We encourage the township, if they're thinking about this, to consider alternatives. And I'm just going to sort of throw this out because it is very difficult to achieve the desired objectives with a non-lethal approach. There's published reports out there that show you need to be effective at getting 90 to 95 percent of your does effectively sterilized. That is no small task. That is very, very challenging and very, very expensive. This one has come up before, reintroducing predators. I will keep this short and say we're not going to allow you to do that. In short, if you think you have a deer problem, I would hate to be on your mountain lion committee or wolf committee here. And then there are some non-lethal options to consider as well. Fencing and repellents, while it may not solve a community-wide problem, there are certainly options that individual landowners can pursue. But again, pros and cons with this. You know, the pros, it is very relatively inexpensive. Exclusion fences can be successful at keeping deer from specific areas. But again, the cons, and I'm sure people here can speak to this because they've probably tried this. It requires a lot of maintenance. It's never 100 percent effective. So there's no guarantees. And it's not going to solve your community-wide problems. So if you are experiencing things like... Well, the pros, when you face them, it's not going to solve the problem. And I think that's the process. Thank you.

  48. There's published reports out there that show you need to be effective at getting 90 to 95 percent of your does effectively sterilized. That is no small task. That is very, very challenging and very, very expensive. This one has come up before, reintroducing predators. I will keep this short and say we're not going to allow you to do that. In short, if you think you have a deer problem, I would hate to be on your mountain lion committee or wolf committee here. And then there are some non-lethal options to consider as well. Fencing and repellents, while it may not solve a community-wide problem, there are certainly options that individual landowners can pursue. But again, pros and cons with this. You know, the pros, it is very relatively inexpensive. Exclusion fences can be successful at keeping deer from specific areas. But again, the cons, and I'm sure people here can speak to this because they've probably tried this. It requires a lot of maintenance. It's never 100 percent effective. So there's no guarantees. And it's not going to solve your community-wide problems. So if you are experiencing things like... Well, the pros, when you face them, it's not going to solve the problem. And I think that's the process. Thank you. deer vehicle collisions or poor regeneration in your in your natural areas these these are not the solutions to pursue for those challenges all of this to say and i talked about this a little bit before there is no magic bean for this urban deer discussion the the venn diagram doesn't fully cover that can point you to one thing so typically when you're considering options you're having to choose between two to maybe three of uh is it are we going to save money on cost are we trying to avoid controversy is it going to be effective is it going to be quick you can have some of those things with your decision you you can't have them all unfortunately so it's a matter of trying to decide where your values are and what you're trying to solve and how quickly it needs to be solved so with that i'm happy to answer any questions or comments and i appreciate your your time and interest in this thank you chad that was a very informative presentation so i'll just leave it up to any questions from our board of trustees at this time i don't have a question we've lived here for 40 years and didn't have deer so we've seen the change

  49. deer vehicle collisions or poor regeneration in your in your natural areas these these are not the solutions to pursue for those challenges all of this to say and i talked about this a little bit before there is no magic bean for this urban deer discussion the the venn diagram doesn't fully cover that can point you to one thing so typically when you're considering options you're having to choose between two to maybe three of uh is it are we going to save money on cost are we trying to avoid controversy is it going to be effective is it going to be quick you can have some of those things with your decision you you can't have them all unfortunately so it's a matter of trying to decide where your values are and what you're trying to solve and how quickly it needs to be solved so with that i'm happy to answer any questions or comments and i appreciate your your time and interest in this thank you chad that was a very informative presentation so i'll just leave it up to any questions from our board of trustees at this time i don't have a question we've lived here for 40 years and didn't have deer so we've seen the change as i know some of the other board members have but um there were no deer from the 80s until about 2010 and it was a novelty oh look at that deer and they are they're they're friendly i mean we've had landscape decimated we've had a car damaged um we understand all the the difficulties and now you know we get whole families and herds in our backyard so it's just really changed the history of white-tailed deer in the state is fascinating because they were actually extirpated there were no deer at one point in the early 1900s um in southern michigan at all people had to go to the upper peninsula to see white-tailed deer and over time that has completely flipped so we have so many more deer in southern michigan now far more than the northern lower peninsula and the upper peninsula combined and it's because we have the ideal setting for white-tailed deer in southern michigan winters are not hard habitat is uh primo like they live in food most of the year um and uh they have very high survival rates we also are experiencing a decline

  50. i don't have a question we've lived here for 40 years and didn't have deer so we've seen the change as i know some of the other board members have but um there were no deer from the 80s until about 2010 and it was a novelty oh look at that deer and they are they're they're friendly i mean we've had landscape decimated we've had a car damaged um we understand all the the difficulties and now you know we get whole families and herds in our backyard so it's just really changed the history of white-tailed deer in the state is fascinating because they were actually extirpated there were no deer at one point in the early 1900s um in southern michigan at all people had to go to the upper peninsula to see white-tailed deer and over time that has completely flipped so we have so many more deer in southern michigan now far more than the northern lower peninsula and the upper peninsula combined and it's because we have the ideal setting for white-tailed deer in southern michigan winters are not hard habitat is uh primo like they live in food most of the year um and uh they have very high survival rates we also are experiencing a decline in hunter numbers um our hunter numbers we used to have over 800 000 hunters in in 2000 and we're currently under 600 000 now so within a 20-year period we've lost a quarter of a million hunters and that's been our primary approach for management um it doesn't really help in communities like this because hunting doesn't really occur but we're seeing these challenges um occur even outside of these communities That's an interesting comment, Chad. I've got to make light of it that we go up north to have fun and enjoy. They deer come down here for survival. Very true. Right. Any other comments from the board? So, Chad, you know, we're not like Meridian Township. We're much more like Southfield and Farmington Hills. What's your recommendation for us as we have to deal with this problem? Doing nothing is not an option. Can I just add one thing to that? Sure. In some ways, we are like Southfield and we are like Farmington Hills, and in some ways we are not because we don't have parks. We don't have parks. We don't have open areas other than golf courses. So really, and as far as I'm concerned,

  51. most of the year um and uh they have very high survival rates we also are experiencing a decline in hunter numbers um our hunter numbers we used to have over 800 000 hunters in in 2000 and we're currently under 600 000 now so within a 20-year period we've lost a quarter of a million hunters and that's been our primary approach for management um it doesn't really help in communities like this because hunting doesn't really occur but we're seeing these challenges um occur even outside of these communities That's an interesting comment, Chad. I've got to make light of it that we go up north to have fun and enjoy. They deer come down here for survival. Very true. Right. Any other comments from the board? So, Chad, you know, we're not like Meridian Township. We're much more like Southfield and Farmington Hills. What's your recommendation for us as we have to deal with this problem? Doing nothing is not an option. Can I just add one thing to that? Sure. In some ways, we are like Southfield and we are like Farmington Hills, and in some ways we are not because we don't have parks. We don't have parks. We don't have open areas other than golf courses. So really, and as far as I'm concerned, safety is the number one issue if we're going to take any action at all. And if we are going to take action, safety of our president, safety of domestic animals. And before I get into any further, I'm against anything that goes on private property, bow and arrow. But we do have the golf courses. And golf courses seem to be our, maybe our safe haven for our residents. So have you been in communities such as ours? They have no parks, no open spaces other than golf courses. And they're private, by the way. All these golf courses. Yes, yes. So there's two questions. I'll, i'll. work backwards here I guess. Yes there are communities that certainly have faced the same challenges that you have. Typically what occurs is they start to look for I would say private landowners that are sympathetic to the cause because what you really want to do when you're talking about especially and I'm really focusing on I guess lethal management at this point that's where deer should be removed and trying to find knowing that that distribution

  52. So really, and as far as I'm concerned, safety is the number one issue if we're going to take any action at all. And if we are going to take action, safety of our president, safety of domestic animals. And before I get into any further, I'm against anything that goes on private property, bow and arrow. But we do have the golf courses. And golf courses seem to be our, maybe our safe haven for our residents. So have you been in communities such as ours? They have no parks, no open spaces other than golf courses. And they're private, by the way. All these golf courses. Yes, yes. So there's two questions. I'll, i'll. work backwards here I guess. Yes there are communities that certainly have faced the same challenges that you have. Typically what occurs is they start to look for I would say private landowners that are sympathetic to the cause because what you really want to do when you're talking about especially and I'm really focusing on I guess lethal management at this point that's where deer should be removed and trying to find knowing that that distribution of deer is likely not homogeneously distributed across the the township or the community. You probably have neighborhoods that are more impacted than others so to go into a golf course that may not be having as many deer for for whatever reason maybe that's just sort of a throwaway and they're moving through the community but not staying there but avoiding the conflict areas you might not achieve your goals so this is a long way of saying it really takes a comprehensive approach to look at like how you want to do this and try to understand where your conflicts are coming from within the township and apply your management option appropriately there and sometimes that means working with private landowners who offer up their property to at least have that removal activity occur. you And the other thing, too, is we do have golf courses almost throughout the township. We have at least nine in that range. And they're geographically throughout the township. Yeah. And it sounds like you might have some options if you wanted to pursue that option in the future.

  53. point that's where deer should be removed and trying to find knowing that that distribution of deer is likely not homogeneously distributed across the the township or the community. You probably have neighborhoods that are more impacted than others so to go into a golf course that may not be having as many deer for for whatever reason maybe that's just sort of a throwaway and they're moving through the community but not staying there but avoiding the conflict areas you might not achieve your goals so this is a long way of saying it really takes a comprehensive approach to look at like how you want to do this and try to understand where your conflicts are coming from within the township and apply your management option appropriately there and sometimes that means working with private landowners who offer up their property to at least have that removal activity occur. you And the other thing, too, is we do have golf courses almost throughout the township. We have at least nine in that range. And they're geographically throughout the township. Yeah. And it sounds like you might have some options if you wanted to pursue that option in the future. Your question, sir, was what was my recommendation? My recommendation before we jump into what a management approach would be is really a definition of what the community wants to resolve. What is the main flashpoint within the community? And I don't know what that is yet. I could guess. Is it deer vehicle collisions? Is it property damage? Is the answer just yes? Because it's both of those things. Trying to understand what that is and trying to quantify or calibrate that in some way. So when you do make a decision on moving forward with a management action, you're able to determine whether or not you're being effective. So I understand not every community is like Meridian Township. But one thing Meridian Township has done is they have sort of set a baseline for what they call a threshold of deer vehicle collisions. And they try to work towards that goal. And they have actually been successful at hitting that.

  54. And it sounds like you might have some options if you wanted to pursue that option in the future. Your question, sir, was what was my recommendation? My recommendation before we jump into what a management approach would be is really a definition of what the community wants to resolve. What is the main flashpoint within the community? And I don't know what that is yet. I could guess. Is it deer vehicle collisions? Is it property damage? Is the answer just yes? Because it's both of those things. Trying to understand what that is and trying to quantify or calibrate that in some way. So when you do make a decision on moving forward with a management action, you're able to determine whether or not you're being effective. So I understand not every community is like Meridian Township. But one thing Meridian Township has done is they have sort of set a baseline for what they call a threshold of deer vehicle collisions. And they try to work towards that goal. And they have actually been successful at hitting that. Again, goals are meant to be debated, and that is what it is, but goals can also be revisited, but that's what they do. And then they can point to their management action and saying, showing, yes, we've gotten some efficacy in reaching our goals by conducting this activity, which has a cost to it, which has an effort, which has a monetary, you know, cost, a social cost to it, a political cost. But to be able to do that, you need to show results, and that's clearer in today's day and age. We need to be able to be transparent with our goals and show that we're hitting something. And if you want my recommendation, that's the place to start, understanding what you're trying to achieve. And then once that's defined, then the next step becomes actually much easier. Mark, just as sort of a personal question, but do deer not eat buckthorn or something? Because I've got it everywhere, and they never seem to eat that. That would be considered a starvation food. So only when they are very hungry and running out of things to eat would they take a nibble of that. So buckthorn, I believe mostly, that's probably an invasive. So that is generally something that they-

  55. Again, goals are meant to be debated, and that is what it is, but goals can also be revisited, but that's what they do. And then they can point to their management action and saying, showing, yes, we've gotten some efficacy in reaching our goals by conducting this activity, which has a cost to it, which has an effort, which has a monetary, you know, cost, a social cost to it, a political cost. But to be able to do that, you need to show results, and that's clearer in today's day and age. We need to be able to be transparent with our goals and show that we're hitting something. And if you want my recommendation, that's the place to start, understanding what you're trying to achieve. And then once that's defined, then the next step becomes actually much easier. Mark, just as sort of a personal question, but do deer not eat buckthorn or something? Because I've got it everywhere, and they never seem to eat that. That would be considered a starvation food. So only when they are very hungry and running out of things to eat would they take a nibble of that. So buckthorn, I believe mostly, that's probably an invasive. So that is generally something that they- It's everywhere. It kills everything around it. Exactly. It's everywhere. And that's where- That's how we go well here. That's where invasives really start to take hold is because they're not only out-competing the natives- species just generally but deer are preferentially browsing the native species which is offering an opportunity for these invasives to proliferate it's a good point yeah we had deer actually kill a tree in our yard last year it was a newer tree you know it's only about 10 feet tall it wasn't that large and it did not survive because they rubbed the velvet off and to the point where it takes the side off the tree and the spring the tree was just totally dead not like partly dead like totally dead yeah we we get a couple complaints every year especially from like Christmas tree farms with deer rubbing their velvet on Christmas trees and obviously a Christmas tree that's been rubbed by a deer has really lost its monetary value so yeah we have a friend in the township who I'm not clear on where she how she contacted it but she has had Lyme disease and has kind of like long COVID it's like long-term health issues from Lyme disease and I call them raisins in my backyard but we have all these pellet piles and you know you know you see them and you see what they leave behind

  56. So that is generally something that they- It's everywhere. It kills everything around it. Exactly. It's everywhere. And that's where- That's how we go well here. That's where invasives really start to take hold is because they're not only out-competing the natives- species just generally but deer are preferentially browsing the native species which is offering an opportunity for these invasives to proliferate it's a good point yeah we had deer actually kill a tree in our yard last year it was a newer tree you know it's only about 10 feet tall it wasn't that large and it did not survive because they rubbed the velvet off and to the point where it takes the side off the tree and the spring the tree was just totally dead not like partly dead like totally dead yeah we we get a couple complaints every year especially from like Christmas tree farms with deer rubbing their velvet on Christmas trees and obviously a Christmas tree that's been rubbed by a deer has really lost its monetary value so yeah we have a friend in the township who I'm not clear on where she how she contacted it but she has had Lyme disease and has kind of like long COVID it's like long-term health issues from Lyme disease and I call them raisins in my backyard but we have all these pellet piles and you know you know you see them and you see what they leave behind and they're eating things they didn't used to eat not the buckthorn what while you're here you want to give us an update on the deer car crashes and yeah so if we look at just the car crashes this year in 2025 alone and you're talking January 1st through August 27th we're at 62 already and we are just starting to get into the moving season for the deer. Over the last, since 2016, you know, 2016 we had 32, and this is going to be a number, and last year in 2024 we had 91. And that's just Bloomfield Township. When I did the math for the areas surrounding us, which would consist of West Bloomfield Waterford, Bloomfield Township Franklin, Farmington Ells, and Birmingham, there's over 200 and just already this year in those areas. But when you look at, one thing that should be concerning to the township as a whole is when we look at the number of calls for service that we can track that have deer mentioned in our call for service. Our system can't differentiate if we pick up a dead deer or a dead squirrel by our animal control officers, but the number of calls for service that mentioned a deer in 2015

  57. we have all these pellet piles and you know you know you see them and you see what they leave behind and they're eating things they didn't used to eat not the buckthorn what while you're here you want to give us an update on the deer car crashes and yeah so if we look at just the car crashes this year in 2025 alone and you're talking January 1st through August 27th we're at 62 already and we are just starting to get into the moving season for the deer. Over the last, since 2016, you know, 2016 we had 32, and this is going to be a number, and last year in 2024 we had 91. And that's just Bloomfield Township. When I did the math for the areas surrounding us, which would consist of West Bloomfield Waterford, Bloomfield Township Franklin, Farmington Ells, and Birmingham, there's over 200 and just already this year in those areas. But when you look at, one thing that should be concerning to the township as a whole is when we look at the number of calls for service that we can track that have deer mentioned in our call for service. Our system can't differentiate if we pick up a dead deer or a dead squirrel by our animal control officers, but the number of calls for service that mentioned a deer in 2015 was 246 calls for service, and 2024, 469. So you're seeing that number of increase just in us, those are just deer calls themselves that our animal control officers manage. So the number is increasing. So I think when Chad talks about it, I think there's a dual concern for us from a police department perspective is the number of deer calls that were going on and then the number of car accidents are, you know, in 10 years has doubled or tripled. I would like to just commend, it sounds like the township has been evaluating this for quite a while. The fact that you've documented these changes over time, um, can actually make. things a lot easier and faster on our end if there is a permit request that comes through there are a lot of communities that come forward and haven't done any tracking at all and we really encourage them to try to start just so they can try to get an understanding of where they're at with things you guys have already demonstrated trends that we can rely on and justify if a permit were to be issued for any type of removal so just commending that the township on the work they've already done so I like the idea of a citizen advisory committee I

  58. by our animal control officers, but the number of calls for service that mentioned a deer in 2015 was 246 calls for service, and 2024, 469. So you're seeing that number of increase just in us, those are just deer calls themselves that our animal control officers manage. So the number is increasing. So I think when Chad talks about it, I think there's a dual concern for us from a police department perspective is the number of deer calls that were going on and then the number of car accidents are, you know, in 10 years has doubled or tripled. I would like to just commend, it sounds like the township has been evaluating this for quite a while. The fact that you've documented these changes over time, um, can actually make. things a lot easier and faster on our end if there is a permit request that comes through there are a lot of communities that come forward and haven't done any tracking at all and we really encourage them to try to start just so they can try to get an understanding of where they're at with things you guys have already demonstrated trends that we can rely on and justify if a permit were to be issued for any type of removal so just commending that the township on the work they've already done so I like the idea of a citizen advisory committee I don't know what you all would think of that but we have a road advisory committee that's made up of members of different HOA's that I think could tackle this subject with us they're going to come back in October to give us an update on the road situation I would maybe entertain handing this to them to maybe study it with us and then come back maybe with some recommendations so just a thought advisory committee is a good idea but perhaps you're not suggesting exact same committee but I might suggest a group of different individuals who want to get involved in a lot of people here that have a lot of experience with the problem and feelings about it okay I do have some questions for Chad what is hemorrhagic what is you mentioned hemorrhagic outbreak what is that great question yeah I'm sorry I should have been more specific when I when I introduced it hemorrhagic disease is a viral disease that kills deer typically at this time of year and we are experiencing some some deer loss so typically what happens is that this is a virus that's transmitted by a like a biting midge like if you ever on your insect repellent you say it's it keeps away no-see-ums these are these midges

  59. work they've already done so I like the idea of a citizen advisory committee I don't know what you all would think of that but we have a road advisory committee that's made up of members of different HOA's that I think could tackle this subject with us they're going to come back in October to give us an update on the road situation I would maybe entertain handing this to them to maybe study it with us and then come back maybe with some recommendations so just a thought advisory committee is a good idea but perhaps you're not suggesting exact same committee but I might suggest a group of different individuals who want to get involved in a lot of people here that have a lot of experience with the problem and feelings about it okay I do have some questions for Chad what is hemorrhagic what is you mentioned hemorrhagic outbreak what is that great question yeah I'm sorry I should have been more specific when I when I introduced it hemorrhagic disease is a viral disease that kills deer typically at this time of year and we are experiencing some some deer loss so typically what happens is that this is a virus that's transmitted by a like a biting midge like if you ever on your insect repellent you say it's it keeps away no-see-ums these are these midges that actually transmit this virus to deer at this time of year it's typically associated with droughty like conditions because these midges breed in like mud flats and it can be actually very impactful to deer it can kill deer within about seven to ten days so right now in places like there's one part of washington county i know that's getting hit i think we've confirmed it in jackson county last year we had a severe outbreak in the southwestern uh part of the state up down in like van buren county cass county it can be very very impactful to white-tailed deer but it typically shuts down on the first frost so when the frost occurs those midges die off it really shuts down the transmission cycle which is an important distinction because this is not a transmissible disease between deer this is something that is transferred from one deer to another via a biting fly and picking up the virus and moving it so what it does is it creates a fever in the deer they typically

  60. if you ever on your insect repellent you say it's it keeps away no-see-ums these are these midges that actually transmit this virus to deer at this time of year it's typically associated with droughty like conditions because these midges breed in like mud flats and it can be actually very impactful to deer it can kill deer within about seven to ten days so right now in places like there's one part of washington county i know that's getting hit i think we've confirmed it in jackson county last year we had a severe outbreak in the southwestern uh part of the state up down in like van buren county cass county it can be very very impactful to white-tailed deer but it typically shuts down on the first frost so when the frost occurs those midges die off it really shuts down the transmission cycle which is an important distinction because this is not a transmissible disease between deer this is something that is transferred from one deer to another via a biting fly and picking up the virus and moving it so what it does is it creates a fever in the deer they typically go to or near water. And if they are going to die from the disease, which is not always, but usually, that's where they're going to die. So when we start getting reports at this time of year that there are deer that are dead or dying in or around water, it's indicative of a hemorrhagic disease outbreak. And can that be transmitted to humans in any way? It is not transmitted to humans. Or other animals? Livestock can get it, but it's typically not as fatal. So sheep can get it, cattle can get it, but their resiliency towards the disease is much greater. What about like dogs? Dogs is not an, it's really like an ungulate specific disease. And the other thing that's unique about this, it works through the deer so quickly that we can't even confirm it through a lab test if the animal's about 24 hours after death. So the, we suspect that's what it is, but our ability to even detect that that disease killed that animal, if the animal's more than 24 hours old after it expired, our test is not sensitive enough to that.

  61. go to or near water. And if they are going to die from the disease, which is not always, but usually, that's where they're going to die. So when we start getting reports at this time of year that there are deer that are dead or dying in or around water, it's indicative of a hemorrhagic disease outbreak. And can that be transmitted to humans in any way? It is not transmitted to humans. Or other animals? Livestock can get it, but it's typically not as fatal. So sheep can get it, cattle can get it, but their resiliency towards the disease is much greater. What about like dogs? Dogs is not an, it's really like an ungulate specific disease. And the other thing that's unique about this, it works through the deer so quickly that we can't even confirm it through a lab test if the animal's about 24 hours after death. So the, we suspect that's what it is, but our ability to even detect that that disease killed that animal, if the animal's more than 24 hours old after it expired, our test is not sensitive enough to that. So it's very, very, what we call acute. It kills animals very quickly, but it's not a human health concern. It's not a pet concern at all. We have a large, the school system has some large properties. One is called Bowers Farms. you had mentioned reviewing foliage and types of foliage is there any work that you do with Bowers farm to look at the different foliage on the property and because that's one of the things that you had mentioned can identify whether or not you have too many deer in an area sure I I will say that I've seen some communities hire out and contract with botanists I know there's one individual that was in the Washtenaw County area that worked with Ann Arbor and basically what they did was they went in and did a botany survey and with that they identified the species and basically identified if there was what they would deem adequate regeneration to be able to replace the the mature forest and on that parcel and if not they would try to identify the causes why that wasn't

  62. our test is not sensitive enough to that. So it's very, very, what we call acute. It kills animals very quickly, but it's not a human health concern. It's not a pet concern at all. We have a large, the school system has some large properties. One is called Bowers Farms. you had mentioned reviewing foliage and types of foliage is there any work that you do with Bowers farm to look at the different foliage on the property and because that's one of the things that you had mentioned can identify whether or not you have too many deer in an area sure I I will say that I've seen some communities hire out and contract with botanists I know there's one individual that was in the Washtenaw County area that worked with Ann Arbor and basically what they did was they went in and did a botany survey and with that they identified the species and basically identified if there was what they would deem adequate regeneration to be able to replace the the mature forest and on that parcel and if not they would try to identify the causes why that wasn't the case whether it was a spread of garlic mustard that's preventing anything from growing whether it's deer browse you name it but usually those individuals can be contracted out and can get a really good glimpse into the health of your your forests or your natural areas it's are those kinds of studies done at the county level as well or no typically not no not that I'm aware of county parks i don't know i suspect counties each county would be a little bit different there might be that would be the health department yeah that would be a question for the county parks you know i i was just wondering because the county approved or the county had a millage pass for parks and an increase so i didn't know if that could be used to help us out um and if that would apply to the parks uh the um jimmy well i just wanted to add something on to what mark's saying i know the school that we had an incident uh probably two or three years ago at bowers farm uh where they had they had a um i don't know what you call it but an automatic every so often a gunshot sound would fire um because they were having such a problem with the deer eating the the and messing

  63. parcel and if not they would try to identify the causes why that wasn't the case whether it was a spread of garlic mustard that's preventing anything from growing whether it's deer browse you name it but usually those individuals can be contracted out and can get a really good glimpse into the health of your your forests or your natural areas it's are those kinds of studies done at the county level as well or no typically not no not that I'm aware of county parks i don't know i suspect counties each county would be a little bit different there might be that would be the health department yeah that would be a question for the county parks you know i i was just wondering because the county approved or the county had a millage pass for parks and an increase so i didn't know if that could be used to help us out um and if that would apply to the parks uh the um jimmy well i just wanted to add something on to what mark's saying i know the school that we had an incident uh probably two or three years ago at bowers farm uh where they had they had a um i don't know what you call it but an automatic every so often a gunshot sound would fire um because they were having such a problem with the deer eating the the and messing with the um stuff on their property um and i know it it kept other animals away as well but uh they they did have an incident you know a couple years ago um that brought us out there um but they were doing it to control so that that's probably another opportunity that we could have to work with uh the school system at least to get rid of some of the animals in a safe way i think one thing that we're missing and i think supervisor mccready was kind of getting to with the citizens committee is what when we sat and listened to chad do talk to us initially about coming and doing this presentation there was a lot of focus that the dnr has and the experience that they have with the safety, and also us learning about if you do do a deer culling or some lethal way of doing it, how many of these companies or how they donate and solve some areas of homelessness and hunger, which completely we didn't, I had no idea when we started those things. So I think there's a lot of information that still needs to be disseminated or explained to our community that they really focus on, that this isn't going out and killing deer in the neighborhood and being done and walking away.

  64. sound would fire um because they were having such a problem with the deer eating the the and messing with the um stuff on their property um and i know it it kept other animals away as well but uh they they did have an incident you know a couple years ago um that brought us out there um but they were doing it to control so that that's probably another opportunity that we could have to work with uh the school system at least to get rid of some of the animals in a safe way i think one thing that we're missing and i think supervisor mccready was kind of getting to with the citizens committee is what when we sat and listened to chad do talk to us initially about coming and doing this presentation there was a lot of focus that the dnr has and the experience that they have with the safety, and also us learning about if you do do a deer culling or some lethal way of doing it, how many of these companies or how they donate and solve some areas of homelessness and hunger, which completely we didn't, I had no idea when we started those things. So I think there's a lot of information that still needs to be disseminated or explained to our community that they really focus on, that this isn't going out and killing deer in the neighborhood and being done and walking away. I think there's a lot more that is involved that Chad doesn't have time tonight to get into, that our board or our trustees and our elected officials focus strongly on the safety portion of this. I can mention too that since that call, I did speak to some executives at Forgotten Harvest, and they routinely accept processed wild game and distribute it to needy. And be more than happy to do that in this case too. And then we have some sections that are near I-75. There are large areas of property there as well. Can that also be, if there are opportunities. You're referring to like the accident entrance ramps, like at Square Lake Road or Harris Road? And then we have I-75 comes around the north part, the northeast part, and heading south. Uh-50s in the south part, you know? No. we have a closed school up there too yeah you have the closed schools so there's no kids ever and then we do have some large areas that and there's a lot of vegetation in there as well so I think thank you Chad and we'll take

  65. in the neighborhood and being done and walking away. I think there's a lot more that is involved that Chad doesn't have time tonight to get into, that our board or our trustees and our elected officials focus strongly on the safety portion of this. I can mention too that since that call, I did speak to some executives at Forgotten Harvest, and they routinely accept processed wild game and distribute it to needy. And be more than happy to do that in this case too. And then we have some sections that are near I-75. There are large areas of property there as well. Can that also be, if there are opportunities. You're referring to like the accident entrance ramps, like at Square Lake Road or Harris Road? And then we have I-75 comes around the north part, the northeast part, and heading south. Uh-50s in the south part, you know? No. we have a closed school up there too yeah you have the closed schools so there's no kids ever and then we do have some large areas that and there's a lot of vegetation in there as well so I think thank you Chad and we'll take this under advisement and maybe we'll talk about putting together citizen visory so we can move forward and try and come up with a plan thank you thank you okay so I thank you thank you all right on number five excuse me a public hearing on site plan and special land use for Oakland veterinary referral services presented by Andrew Bibby our director of planning building welcome Andrea hello hi good evening I think if I'm correct Martin you told me that today was the anniversary 50 years of our zoning ordinance it is September 8th happy birthday to our ordinance it's funny because I just saw that I just saw that reminder so yeah I had to say happy birthday to our ordinance PowerPoint on it 100 years old thanks Jeff thank you okay so I am going to be presenting three site plans this evening I'll go through the staff reports rather quickly but of course if anybody has any questions we have applicants here as well as I can answer any questions so with this the first request that we have this evening is a site plan a special land use for the Oakland veterinarian clinic located at 1400 and 1410 telegraph in this instance you can see this property is located within our B3 classification our general business this is located

  66. of vegetation in there as well so I think thank you Chad and we'll take this under advisement and maybe we'll talk about putting together citizen visory so we can move forward and try and come up with a plan thank you thank you okay so I thank you thank you all right on number five excuse me a public hearing on site plan and special land use for Oakland veterinary referral services presented by Andrew Bibby our director of planning building welcome Andrea hello hi good evening I think if I'm correct Martin you told me that today was the anniversary 50 years of our zoning ordinance it is September 8th happy birthday to our ordinance it's funny because I just saw that I just saw that reminder so yeah I had to say happy birthday to our ordinance PowerPoint on it 100 years old thanks Jeff thank you okay so I am going to be presenting three site plans this evening I'll go through the staff reports rather quickly but of course if anybody has any questions we have applicants here as well as I can answer any questions so with this the first request that we have this evening is a site plan a special land use for the Oakland veterinarian clinic located at 1400 and 1410 telegraph in this instance you can see this property is located within our B3 classification our general business this is located on the Telegraph Corridor, just south of Orchard Lake Road, right where Old Telegraph and New Telegraph split. So as this proposal, Oakland Veterinarian Referral Services is seeking approval to expand their existing 30,000 24-square-foot office building. They are looking to add on a two-story addition, which is approximately 4,360 square feet in the basement, 43,45 square feet of the first floor, as well as about 3,500 square feet on the second floor. Highlighted on your screen is the darker red in the far left of the screen is indicating where the proposed addition would be connecting to the north of the existing building. I do want to note back in 2016 that the Oakland Veterinarian Referral Services did at that time have approval to do an addition in the same location. However, it never came into fruition. It was never developed. So here they are back again. So with that, the other site improvements included the demolition of, there was a one-story building that was immediately south of the site. As part of this request,

  67. on the Telegraph Corridor, just south of Orchard Lake Road, right where Old Telegraph and New Telegraph split. So as this proposal, Oakland Veterinarian Referral Services is seeking approval to expand their existing 30,000 24-square-foot office building. They are looking to add on a two-story addition, which is approximately 4,360 square feet in the basement, 43,45 square feet of the first floor, as well as about 3,500 square feet on the second floor. Highlighted on your screen is the darker red in the far left of the screen is indicating where the proposed addition would be connecting to the north of the existing building. I do want to note back in 2016 that the Oakland Veterinarian Referral Services did at that time have approval to do an addition in the same location. However, it never came into fruition. It was never developed. So here they are back again. So with that, the other site improvements included the demolition of, there was a one-story building that was immediately south of the site. As part of this request, the ownership of that property is now with the Oakland Veterinarian Referral Services, and they are requesting, as you can see highlighted on the site plan shown on your screen, they are looking to add additional parking So in the end of the- the Tá Observe family because I can see and I cannot see and if we see be the same service their existing building as well as to allow for employee parking. In addition to that at-grade parking lot to the south of the site, they are also updating an existing trash enclosure, which will include a bulk oxygen enclosure. Currently, they are storing this oxygen inside their building and it has actually come to find out much safer and makes more sense for them to locate it within the enclosure that is being provided closer to the property to the south side. So that is the intention of them relocating that. I just also want to note too that they do have approval and that their existing hours of operation are 24 hours, as many of us are aware that they do operate as a 24-hour emergency care for animals. I just want to note that the subject site, again, is located within our B3 zoning classification.

  68. the ownership of that property is now with the Oakland Veterinarian Referral Services, and they are requesting, as you can see highlighted on the site plan shown on your screen, they are looking to add additional parking So in the end of the- the Tá Observe family because I can see and I cannot see and if we see be the same service their existing building as well as to allow for employee parking. In addition to that at-grade parking lot to the south of the site, they are also updating an existing trash enclosure, which will include a bulk oxygen enclosure. Currently, they are storing this oxygen inside their building and it has actually come to find out much safer and makes more sense for them to locate it within the enclosure that is being provided closer to the property to the south side. So that is the intention of them relocating that. I just also want to note too that they do have approval and that their existing hours of operation are 24 hours, as many of us are aware that they do operate as a 24-hour emergency care for animals. I just want to note that the subject site, again, is located within our B3 zoning classification. I do want to note that there is the northernmost portion, which would be your furthest to the left. We actually have a dividing line between the city of Pontiac and Bloomfield Township in that location. I do know the applicant has had conversations, has worked with Pontiac in notifying them. We have also notified them. Historically, when the work and the construction is predominantly recurring within the township, which is in this instance, all permitting, all the processes. And again, the following day, would be the working acontece. of approval are going through the township, but the application, and they are here, can speak to the conversations that they've had in terms of notifying Pontiac of their proposal. I do want to note that the development, it does include a 3.18 acre, as well as a .224 acres, which lies within the city of Pontiac, as I just stated. The site is unique in the sense it has frontages on both Telegraph Road and South Telegraph Road. It is compatible with the surrounding uses, as it is predominantly commercial in office. I also want to note that they are not planning on making any changes to the ingress and egress to the site. The only changes with parking that they're doing,

  69. B3 zoning classification. I do want to note that there is the northernmost portion, which would be your furthest to the left. We actually have a dividing line between the city of Pontiac and Bloomfield Township in that location. I do know the applicant has had conversations, has worked with Pontiac in notifying them. We have also notified them. Historically, when the work and the construction is predominantly recurring within the township, which is in this instance, all permitting, all the processes. And again, the following day, would be the working acontece. of approval are going through the township, but the application, and they are here, can speak to the conversations that they've had in terms of notifying Pontiac of their proposal. I do want to note that the development, it does include a 3.18 acre, as well as a .224 acres, which lies within the city of Pontiac, as I just stated. The site is unique in the sense it has frontages on both Telegraph Road and South Telegraph Road. It is compatible with the surrounding uses, as it is predominantly commercial in office. I also want to note that they are not planning on making any changes to the ingress and egress to the site. The only changes with parking that they're doing, other than the proposed addition of the parking lot to the south, which will also include the introduction of some parking lot islands and some landscaping, as well, to help provide a more aesthetic feel to that parking lot, as well as providing the required lighting for that. I just want to note, as part of the overall development, they are also proposing to have a crosswalk, which is being provided, I don't know if you can see my, you can't see my cursor? Put the corner in there, in the corner. In the corner? Thank you. Perfect. Also provided as part of this proposal, because of the is a sidewalk to connect and to provide pedestrian access from the existing building to the new parking lot to the south. That is an additional part of this development, which is a 20, I'm sorry, a five-foot-wide accessible paved concrete, I'm sorry, concrete, not paved, cross-access to provide for that pedestrian, as I stated. The application itself did not require any zoning variances. They actually complied with the provisions

  70. The only changes with parking that they're doing, other than the proposed addition of the parking lot to the south, which will also include the introduction of some parking lot islands and some landscaping, as well, to help provide a more aesthetic feel to that parking lot, as well as providing the required lighting for that. I just want to note, as part of the overall development, they are also proposing to have a crosswalk, which is being provided, I don't know if you can see my, you can't see my cursor? Put the corner in there, in the corner. In the corner? Thank you. Perfect. Also provided as part of this proposal, because of the is a sidewalk to connect and to provide pedestrian access from the existing building to the new parking lot to the south. That is an additional part of this development, which is a 20, I'm sorry, a five-foot-wide accessible paved concrete, I'm sorry, concrete, not paved, cross-access to provide for that pedestrian, as I stated. The application itself did not require any zoning variances. They actually complied with the provisions of our zoning ordinance, and other than that, they are not looking to necessarily, they're not going to be adding any more services other than just expanding on what they currently have. So we're not looking at the parking lot, the parking as it's provided is sufficient for the site. As I stated earlier, they're providing a total of 150 parking spaces, and as you can see highlighted here in the dark gray provides a better illustration of that pedestrian cross-access that I referred to earlier. I'm sorry, this is the new concrete sidewalks that will be extending from the addition as well as the building. And you can see the landscape plan, which did have an opportunity to be reviewed by our landscape architect. No additional landscaping, fencing, or walls are proposed, nor required for the ordinance. The applicant is proposing to remove four protected trees and four unregulated trees. Of course. and they will be replacing them as required with seven replacement trees. So with that, this did have an opportunity to go both be reviewed by our various departments, noting, oh, I do want to show the proposed elevations as well.

  71. They actually complied with the provisions of our zoning ordinance, and other than that, they are not looking to necessarily, they're not going to be adding any more services other than just expanding on what they currently have. So we're not looking at the parking lot, the parking as it's provided is sufficient for the site. As I stated earlier, they're providing a total of 150 parking spaces, and as you can see highlighted here in the dark gray provides a better illustration of that pedestrian cross-access that I referred to earlier. I'm sorry, this is the new concrete sidewalks that will be extending from the addition as well as the building. And you can see the landscape plan, which did have an opportunity to be reviewed by our landscape architect. No additional landscaping, fencing, or walls are proposed, nor required for the ordinance. The applicant is proposing to remove four protected trees and four unregulated trees. Of course. and they will be replacing them as required with seven replacement trees. So with that, this did have an opportunity to go both be reviewed by our various departments, noting, oh, I do want to show the proposed elevations as well. So the proposed elevations, as you can see, are predominantly brick. There is some accents using some ephys, but the predominant material is a brick, very similar and matching the existing building. So the intention is that it will mirror and look as if it is just seamlessly connected to that existing building. On the very top, you can see the proposed elevation showing the existing entry canopy with that proposed addition to the north of the site. On the bottom right-hand graphic, I do want to note that roof-mounted mechanicals that will be added to the site will be shielded in accordance with our ordinance with a visor system as demonstrated and shown on the elevations. And here are some photos of the existing site. The bottom left-hand corner is going to illustrate where that proposed addition, that is essentially looking at the same elevation that we're looking at here in the top, and now we look at it in real life, and you can see that's where the proposed addition would occur. Again, as I stated, this did have an opportunity to be reviewed by our various departments, environmental engineering services, notes, and...

  72. noting, oh, I do want to show the proposed elevations as well. So the proposed elevations, as you can see, are predominantly brick. There is some accents using some ephys, but the predominant material is a brick, very similar and matching the existing building. So the intention is that it will mirror and look as if it is just seamlessly connected to that existing building. On the very top, you can see the proposed elevation showing the existing entry canopy with that proposed addition to the north of the site. On the bottom right-hand graphic, I do want to note that roof-mounted mechanicals that will be added to the site will be shielded in accordance with our ordinance with a visor system as demonstrated and shown on the elevations. And here are some photos of the existing site. The bottom left-hand corner is going to illustrate where that proposed addition, that is essentially looking at the same elevation that we're looking at here in the top, and now we look at it in real life, and you can see that's where the proposed addition would occur. Again, as I stated, this did have an opportunity to be reviewed by our various departments, environmental engineering services, notes, and... their review letter dated July 1st, 2025, that they don't have any issues. Obviously, engineering plan review will be required prior to the issues of any permits. The fire department noted that they have no issues, as well as the police department. So those memos have been provided within your staff report. I did review the aesthetics and the building design. It did go before the design review board on July 16th, 2025. It was then forward on favorably to the township board for ultimate consideration. I do want to note that two of the comments that were provided that would be carried into the recommendation to the township board would be that the plans be presented to the city of Pontiac for review, which I believe the applicant has been working on, and then compliance with the requirements of the township department. I hope that wasn't too quick or too fast, but hopefully it provides you with enough information. All right, thank you, Andrea. And this is a public hearing, so I will open it up for any public comments at this time. And if you're here to speak about the Oakland Veterinary Clinic, now is your time to come up and introduce yourself. He's actually the applicant, so I don't know how you're doing. Yep. Okay, great. Hi. Thank you. My name is Mike Blanick with the firm Stuckey Vitaly Architects, 27172 Woodward Avenue on Royal Oak.

  73. their review letter dated July 1st, 2025, that they don't have any issues. Obviously, engineering plan review will be required prior to the issues of any permits. The fire department noted that they have no issues, as well as the police department. So those memos have been provided within your staff report. I did review the aesthetics and the building design. It did go before the design review board on July 16th, 2025. It was then forward on favorably to the township board for ultimate consideration. I do want to note that two of the comments that were provided that would be carried into the recommendation to the township board would be that the plans be presented to the city of Pontiac for review, which I believe the applicant has been working on, and then compliance with the requirements of the township department. I hope that wasn't too quick or too fast, but hopefully it provides you with enough information. All right, thank you, Andrea. And this is a public hearing, so I will open it up for any public comments at this time. And if you're here to speak about the Oakland Veterinary Clinic, now is your time to come up and introduce yourself. He's actually the applicant, so I don't know how you're doing. Yep. Okay, great. Hi. Thank you. My name is Mike Blanick with the firm Stuckey Vitaly Architects, 27172 Woodward Avenue on Royal Oak. As was described, the addition is going to be contiguous with the building environment as far as the extra materials in that to look seamless as it goes, you know, with the addition. As far as the Pontiac, we actually got I noticed today that it looks like we're going to October 1st, site plan approval, hearing for that, 45% of the building that's on their side, but we also did get confirmation that the building and fire have deferred to the township for the permitting, and I forward that through to the planning department as well. So our plan, the only thing I wanted to add is, I don't know how long it's going to take to get through the Pontiac process, we're not really sure, we're going to see this October first meeting, but what we'd like to do is get the south parking lot, we've already submitted plans to the township for engineering review, is to get that put in this year still so we can have that staged, so when we start the addition, probably in the spring, we're going to lose some parking on that to do that staging and everything, but we would have this in place. So that's really the goal, so hopefully that's okay with the township to kind of phase one, phase two with this development, so it helps with the process. Okay, thank you, Michael. Thank you. Really time though, if there's anybody here from the public that would like to comment on this, now's your time. And if not, I'll close public comment, and Michael, you've spoken, so now if you, any

  74. As was described, the addition is going to be contiguous with the building environment as far as the extra materials in that to look seamless as it goes, you know, with the addition. As far as the Pontiac, we actually got I noticed today that it looks like we're going to October 1st, site plan approval, hearing for that, 45% of the building that's on their side, but we also did get confirmation that the building and fire have deferred to the township for the permitting, and I forward that through to the planning department as well. So our plan, the only thing I wanted to add is, I don't know how long it's going to take to get through the Pontiac process, we're not really sure, we're going to see this October first meeting, but what we'd like to do is get the south parking lot, we've already submitted plans to the township for engineering review, is to get that put in this year still so we can have that staged, so when we start the addition, probably in the spring, we're going to lose some parking on that to do that staging and everything, but we would have this in place. So that's really the goal, so hopefully that's okay with the township to kind of phase one, phase two with this development, so it helps with the process. Okay, thank you, Michael. Thank you. Really time though, if there's anybody here from the public that would like to comment on this, now's your time. And if not, I'll close public comment, and Michael, you've spoken, so now if you, any questions from the board, for the architect, or from Andrea? Yeah, one question, Andrea, you said in your memo that the facade does not meet the requirements of the ordinance of the ordinance, I assume the sign ordinance. Does that, which page are you buying? The paw? Page six. The paw print. Wait, the face rubies indicate a logo. go. a paw print proposed for the facade edition this is considered signage and does not meet the requirements of the ordinance you know I think I'm gonna have to probably state that I'm gonna retract that statement I feel like the paw is just a is a just a graphic I don't necessarily see it as signage and they already have one that's existing so if the board would accept my interpretation as it being like a just a graphic not necessarily logo signage I think we get accepted as part of the elevation and the design and I would remove that requirement and I'd be willing to accept it as she's our expert in this so we yield to you when it comes to these type of things so I would accept

  75. And if not, I'll close public comment, and Michael, you've spoken, so now if you, any questions from the board, for the architect, or from Andrea? Yeah, one question, Andrea, you said in your memo that the facade does not meet the requirements of the ordinance of the ordinance, I assume the sign ordinance. Does that, which page are you buying? The paw? Page six. The paw print. Wait, the face rubies indicate a logo. go. a paw print proposed for the facade edition this is considered signage and does not meet the requirements of the ordinance you know I think I'm gonna have to probably state that I'm gonna retract that statement I feel like the paw is just a is a just a graphic I don't necessarily see it as signage and they already have one that's existing so if the board would accept my interpretation as it being like a just a graphic not necessarily logo signage I think we get accepted as part of the elevation and the design and I would remove that requirement and I'd be willing to accept it as she's our expert in this so we yield to you when it comes to these type of things so I would accept that well and a paw print is not assigned they're not putting their name on it you know OVRS does a great service to our community it's great that you can see at the peak there is it already on the building now they do already have one yes and historically I didn't see that we had ever referred to it as additional signage so I would I would think we would want to make it at the same size yes okay okay I think it's a great addition to the township we appreciate you investing in it I think you're one phase and two phase makes a lot of sense to minimize your impact on your customers obviously run a 24-hour operation so I think that that just makes sense right Right. You want to keep your customer base happy. Yeah. And the site plan is good for a year, the approval. Yeah. So we can certainly work with the applicant on his request. Again, the goal of our planning department is always to work and make sure it not only works for our applicants, but works for other residents, and our residents are using your facility. I think it's just a win-win. So unless I'm anything further, I would love to make a motion. I think Mark has a comment. Yeah. I've never heard the term EFIS. What is EFIS? You're the architect. So if you've seen it, typically it's exterior insulation. So there's insulation and then a hard coat on it.

  76. in this so we yield to you when it comes to these type of things so I would accept that well and a paw print is not assigned they're not putting their name on it you know OVRS does a great service to our community it's great that you can see at the peak there is it already on the building now they do already have one yes and historically I didn't see that we had ever referred to it as additional signage so I would I would think we would want to make it at the same size yes okay okay I think it's a great addition to the township we appreciate you investing in it I think you're one phase and two phase makes a lot of sense to minimize your impact on your customers obviously run a 24-hour operation so I think that that just makes sense right Right. You want to keep your customer base happy. Yeah. And the site plan is good for a year, the approval. Yeah. So we can certainly work with the applicant on his request. Again, the goal of our planning department is always to work and make sure it not only works for our applicants, but works for other residents, and our residents are using your facility. I think it's just a win-win. So unless I'm anything further, I would love to make a motion. I think Mark has a comment. Yeah. I've never heard the term EFIS. What is EFIS? You're the architect. So if you've seen it, typically it's exterior insulation. So there's insulation and then a hard coat on it. If you look at the current building, if you can see a current picture, the entrance is already existing there. You see that canopy there on the picture? So it has like a limestone appearance? Yeah. It looks like limestone or a stone look, smooth faced. And what's the R rating on the insulation? Well, we have to meet the Michigan Energy Code for the addition. So it will be a combination of elements that will make up that requirement. And I have one question on the oxygen. Are there any explosive requirements on that out building? Well, right now it's inside basically a storage room currently. And so what's... So by moving it outside... Which I like. Yeah. So are there any specific requirements for having oxygen stored outside? Well, it's protected. It'll be protected with the corral around it. It's been set. But there's no other requirements for this at the county or state level? Only if the building code has anything we would meet that, but typically not. I mean, it's pretty standard to see that, especially in hospital environments.

  77. So there's insulation and then a hard coat on it. If you look at the current building, if you can see a current picture, the entrance is already existing there. You see that canopy there on the picture? So it has like a limestone appearance? Yeah. It looks like limestone or a stone look, smooth faced. And what's the R rating on the insulation? Well, we have to meet the Michigan Energy Code for the addition. So it will be a combination of elements that will make up that requirement. And I have one question on the oxygen. Are there any explosive requirements on that out building? Well, right now it's inside basically a storage room currently. And so what's... So by moving it outside... Which I like. Yeah. So are there any specific requirements for having oxygen stored outside? Well, it's protected. It'll be protected with the corral around it. It's been set. But there's no other requirements for this at the county or state level? Only if the building code has anything we would meet that, but typically not. I mean, it's pretty standard to see that, especially in hospital environments. You see those outside. Correct. This would be at a smaller scale, of course. Yeah, okay. Thank you. It's nice to see you're at in parking. We've been over there a few times, and boy, it is a busy place. Okay, any other comments? If not, Chris, you had a motion? I would like to make a motion that we accept it as submitted, including the two things with the city of Pontiac as well as the other one. The support for the parking lot? To do the parking lot followed up with the second phase? No, to approve the site plan as submitted with both phases, but they have a site plan that's approved for one year, so that's what the department to decide how they do the phases. And outside of us, that's PBL. I just want to make sure he's covered. Yeah, that's for our director to take care of him. Are we good with that? Yeah, we are. Okay. Is there a second? Second, support? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes seven to nothing. Congratulations. Thank you. Yes, good luck. Thank you. Item number six, public hearing on site plan, a special land use request for L car wash at 1933 Telegraph Road, presented by Andrea Bibby. Welcome back. Hi. Okay, so this is a proposal for a brand new addition to the township. So this is...

  78. I mean, it's pretty standard to see that, especially in hospital environments. You see those outside. Correct. This would be at a smaller scale, of course. Yeah, okay. Thank you. It's nice to see you're at in parking. We've been over there a few times, and boy, it is a busy place. Okay, any other comments? If not, Chris, you had a motion? I would like to make a motion that we accept it as submitted, including the two things with the city of Pontiac as well as the other one. The support for the parking lot? To do the parking lot followed up with the second phase? No, to approve the site plan as submitted with both phases, but they have a site plan that's approved for one year, so that's what the department to decide how they do the phases. And outside of us, that's PBL. I just want to make sure he's covered. Yeah, that's for our director to take care of him. Are we good with that? Yeah, we are. Okay. Is there a second? Second, support? All in favor, say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes seven to nothing. Congratulations. Thank you. Yes, good luck. Thank you. Item number six, public hearing on site plan, a special land use request for L car wash at 1933 Telegraph Road, presented by Andrea Bibby. Welcome back. Hi. Okay, so this is a proposal for a brand new addition to the township. So this is... proposal for a new L car wash located at 1933 Telegraph as many of you are maybe familiar with the site this is the location it's not in my PowerPoint for some reason interesting is the location of the I think we all know where the existing long-standing calico corners has been located at North Telegraph so the property is zoned to be a permitted use it is zoned recommends commercial uses it's zoned B3 within our B3 zoning classification the applicant is proposing a fully enclosed which is our second one we do require car washes to be fully enclosed and what we mean by that is all the vacuums and what have you are going to be enclosed inside the building itself the the structure the L car wash is proposed to be 4,158 square feet and with that they are also including a 10,356 square foot enclosed vacuum structure so when you look at the site plan here on your screen the lower portion which is that dark gray indicates the actual car wash the portion just immediately above that that shows the parking bays that is actually the covered internal parking area so with that I do

  79. proposal for a new L car wash located at 1933 Telegraph as many of you are maybe familiar with the site this is the location it's not in my PowerPoint for some reason interesting is the location of the I think we all know where the existing long-standing calico corners has been located at North Telegraph so the property is zoned to be a permitted use it is zoned recommends commercial uses it's zoned B3 within our B3 zoning classification the applicant is proposing a fully enclosed which is our second one we do require car washes to be fully enclosed and what we mean by that is all the vacuums and what have you are going to be enclosed inside the building itself the the structure the L car wash is proposed to be 4,158 square feet and with that they are also including a 10,356 square foot enclosed vacuum structure so when you look at the site plan here on your screen the lower portion which is that dark gray indicates the actual car wash the portion just immediately above that that shows the parking bays that is actually the covered internal parking area so with that I do want to just review in terms of the site proposal itself the application does meet all the requirements within the B3 zoning classification The proposal includes an 150-foot tunnel car wash with 14 vacuum stalls. The plan includes pay stations enclosed along Telegraph Road. And this was something that I personally, from our department, I appreciated was the integration. You can see the 3D renderings. The integration of the pay stations will actually be in the portion that's closest to Telegraph. And it's actually enclosed and looks like it's actually part of the building as opposed to the stand-alone pay stations. So it actually appears to be incorporated as part of the building. So when we're looking at the site, they are providing, the applicant is providing circulation, which would involve ingress into the site from the existing entrance, like into Menards. Okay, so I think we're entering into Menards. Then the applicant would then come around to the rear of the proposed building along the Ring Road,

  80. parking bays that is actually the covered internal parking area so with that I do want to just review in terms of the site proposal itself the application does meet all the requirements within the B3 zoning classification The proposal includes an 150-foot tunnel car wash with 14 vacuum stalls. The plan includes pay stations enclosed along Telegraph Road. And this was something that I personally, from our department, I appreciated was the integration. You can see the 3D renderings. The integration of the pay stations will actually be in the portion that's closest to Telegraph. And it's actually enclosed and looks like it's actually part of the building as opposed to the stand-alone pay stations. So it actually appears to be incorporated as part of the building. So when we're looking at the site, they are providing, the applicant is providing circulation, which would involve ingress into the site from the existing entrance, like into Menards. Okay, so I think we're entering into Menards. Then the applicant would then come around to the rear of the proposed building along the Ring Road, enter into the car wash queue line. That queue line, which is shown just above the enclosed area, you can slightly see the highlighted car stacking. And then they would be then pulling forward through that queue line, coming around to the front of the building along the Telegraph Road frontage. And that is where they would have that covered ... kiosk, and then upon that, then traveling south through the car wash and then exiting out to the rear of the car wash where at that point they could have an opportunity to go into the vacuum and exit the vacuum out of the same, the vacuum only has one entrance area, so that would be to the rear of the site. The applicant has worked with MDOT as well as our staff to provide an adequate opt-out lane. Anytime that we have stacking lanes within the township, whether it be a coffee, whether it be a drive-thru, we always want to provide our fire marshal as well as patrons to the site an opportunity to be able to circulate the building. Hopefully you appreciate this from a fire standpoint and safety. That is something the applicant worked very well with the township on

  81. Then the applicant would then come around to the rear of the proposed building along the Ring Road, enter into the car wash queue line. That queue line, which is shown just above the enclosed area, you can slightly see the highlighted car stacking. And then they would be then pulling forward through that queue line, coming around to the front of the building along the Telegraph Road frontage. And that is where they would have that covered ... kiosk, and then upon that, then traveling south through the car wash and then exiting out to the rear of the car wash where at that point they could have an opportunity to go into the vacuum and exit the vacuum out of the same, the vacuum only has one entrance area, so that would be to the rear of the site. The applicant has worked with MDOT as well as our staff to provide an adequate opt-out lane. Anytime that we have stacking lanes within the township, whether it be a coffee, whether it be a drive-thru, we always want to provide our fire marshal as well as patrons to the site an opportunity to be able to circulate the building. Hopefully you appreciate this from a fire standpoint and safety. That is something the applicant worked very well with the township on and also engaged with MDOT to allow for a revised curb cut. They are taking the existing curb cut, which is more southern to the site, where you enter into Calico Corners. They're removing that curb cut and adding a new curb cut with a little bit of a different geometry to accommodate the intended egress if needed, but really the intention of that curb cut is solely just for that if it's deemed an emergency egress. Other than that, the site is totally self-contained in terms of site circulation onto the site. It was reviewed in a memo dated February 11, 2025. We did have fishback. Our traffic engineer review the traffic impact study that was provided by the applicant. In their review, they did note that based on the proposed peak hours of operation, that they do not anticipate any issues with the circulation of the site. And they also have noted within that staff report, without getting into all the details, they have provided an overview in terms of what the current traffic impact and study is within that corridor of Telegraph Road,

  82. a fire standpoint and safety. That is something the applicant worked very well with the township on and also engaged with MDOT to allow for a revised curb cut. They are taking the existing curb cut, which is more southern to the site, where you enter into Calico Corners. They're removing that curb cut and adding a new curb cut with a little bit of a different geometry to accommodate the intended egress if needed, but really the intention of that curb cut is solely just for that if it's deemed an emergency egress. Other than that, the site is totally self-contained in terms of site circulation onto the site. It was reviewed in a memo dated February 11, 2025. We did have fishback. Our traffic engineer review the traffic impact study that was provided by the applicant. In their review, they did note that based on the proposed peak hours of operation, that they do not anticipate any issues with the circulation of the site. And they also have noted within that staff report, without getting into all the details, they have provided an overview in terms of what the current traffic impact and study is within that corridor of Telegraph Road, an area that has been studied quite a bit over the recent years with the development of the Bloomfield Villages. The familiarity with that corridor with curb cuts and traffic has been well vetted, and our traffic engineers have very good experience with that, I can say personally. With that, the applicant has provided, this is the geometry showing the circulation of a fire truck entering and exiting the site. This is also a good diagram in the sense where you can see highlighted on the pavement markings what the intended traffic circulation is for this proposed car wash, as well as providing additional landscaping, which has also been reviewed by our landscape architect. I don't believe that's the landscape plan, though. That does not look like a landscape plan to me. Provided here is elevations. The applicant is... providing a rather neutral design providing some glazing along the southerly elevation our ordinance does allow for a zero side yard setback when there's no windows so to gain that that opt-out lane we were able to work with

  83. within that corridor of Telegraph Road, an area that has been studied quite a bit over the recent years with the development of the Bloomfield Villages. The familiarity with that corridor with curb cuts and traffic has been well vetted, and our traffic engineers have very good experience with that, I can say personally. With that, the applicant has provided, this is the geometry showing the circulation of a fire truck entering and exiting the site. This is also a good diagram in the sense where you can see highlighted on the pavement markings what the intended traffic circulation is for this proposed car wash, as well as providing additional landscaping, which has also been reviewed by our landscape architect. I don't believe that's the landscape plan, though. That does not look like a landscape plan to me. Provided here is elevations. The applicant is... providing a rather neutral design providing some glazing along the southerly elevation our ordinance does allow for a zero side yard setback when there's no windows so to gain that that opt-out lane we were able to work with the applicant they're doing glazing along that that southerly elevation which provides a more open appeal to the building but also allows them to meet their requirements on site so that was something that worked very well for this application so the colors are provided to be neutral again an introduction of building materials include the the utilization utilization of split face CMU in sterling silver black they are also asking for aluminum composite panel reflective mirrors and white EFIS there's that term EFIS again EFIS should always be an accent not the primary element EFIS we like as as accents only so the applicant is definitely meeting that criteria they have provided a photometric study as well noting that the light poles in the parking lot will not exceed the allowed 20 feet in height this is a highly commercial area heavily trafficked no residential immediately within the proximity of the proposal and again it had an opportunity to be reviewed by our various departments

  84. there's no windows so to gain that that opt-out lane we were able to work with the applicant they're doing glazing along that that southerly elevation which provides a more open appeal to the building but also allows them to meet their requirements on site so that was something that worked very well for this application so the colors are provided to be neutral again an introduction of building materials include the the utilization utilization of split face CMU in sterling silver black they are also asking for aluminum composite panel reflective mirrors and white EFIS there's that term EFIS again EFIS should always be an accent not the primary element EFIS we like as as accents only so the applicant is definitely meeting that criteria they have provided a photometric study as well noting that the light poles in the parking lot will not exceed the allowed 20 feet in height this is a highly commercial area heavily trafficked no residential immediately within the proximity of the proposal and again it had an opportunity to be reviewed by our various departments The fire department reviewed the site plan and noted in their July 7, 2025 memo that additional requirements will be reviewed as the time of permit is submitted. Fire department having no objections, and engineering and environmental services recommending approval of the site plan, knowing if approval is granted, engineering plans would be required to be submitted prior to the issue of permits. We also had this reviewed by our engineering consultant, Hubble, Roth, and Clark. They have reviewed the preliminary site plan with respect to the water main, sanitary sewer, storm sewer, and storm water management, and they have found that the plans are adequate to recommend site plan approval to the board of trustees. This did have an opportunity to go before various boards received a favorable recommendation from our design review board on July 16, 2025, forwarded on the planning commission. Planning commission forwarding on their recommendation from their July 21, 2025 meeting, supporting the project with the conditions that I'm forwarding on for consideration to this board, which include compliance with the requirements of the township's department, compliance with the requirements of the township's landscape architect, compliance with the requirements of the township's traffic

  85. The fire department reviewed the site plan and noted in their July 7, 2025 memo that additional requirements will be reviewed as the time of permit is submitted. Fire department having no objections, and engineering and environmental services recommending approval of the site plan, knowing if approval is granted, engineering plans would be required to be submitted prior to the issue of permits. We also had this reviewed by our engineering consultant, Hubble, Roth, and Clark. They have reviewed the preliminary site plan with respect to the water main, sanitary sewer, storm sewer, and storm water management, and they have found that the plans are adequate to recommend site plan approval to the board of trustees. This did have an opportunity to go before various boards received a favorable recommendation from our design review board on July 16, 2025, forwarded on the planning commission. Planning commission forwarding on their recommendation from their July 21, 2025 meeting, supporting the project with the conditions that I'm forwarding on for consideration to this board, which include compliance with the requirements of the township's department, compliance with the requirements of the township's landscape architect, compliance with the requirements of the township's traffic consultant, and review and approval of signage by the design review board. The applicant has provided some potential elements of what their signage traditionally looks like. They will be routed back to the design review board and possibly of the Zoning Board of Appeals once they have their final signed package. I have a sneaky suspicion they're gonna probably want more than one sign. So with that, again, I can answer any questions and the applicant is here as well. Thank you, Andrea. Thank you. Okay, so we'll open up for public hearing and again, this is just for people who wanna come and comment on this development and if you're here to comment on El Car Wash on Telegraph Road, now's your time to come up to the podium. Looks like they're not lining up so we'll close public hearing and open up if the applicant would like to come up and add anything to this and answer any questions from the board. Come up and introduce yourself, please. And I do wanna note that I missed, I didn't read the hours of operation. Their request is to operate 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday through Sunday, which does meet the standard hours of operation within our B-3. Thank you, hello. Thank you, my name is Mitchell Harvey. I'm with Stonefield Engineering and Design. We're the civil engineer on the project. Really, Andrea always does such a good job

  86. of the township's landscape architect, compliance with the requirements of the township's traffic consultant, and review and approval of signage by the design review board. The applicant has provided some potential elements of what their signage traditionally looks like. They will be routed back to the design review board and possibly of the Zoning Board of Appeals once they have their final signed package. I have a sneaky suspicion they're gonna probably want more than one sign. So with that, again, I can answer any questions and the applicant is here as well. Thank you, Andrea. Thank you. Okay, so we'll open up for public hearing and again, this is just for people who wanna come and comment on this development and if you're here to comment on El Car Wash on Telegraph Road, now's your time to come up to the podium. Looks like they're not lining up so we'll close public hearing and open up if the applicant would like to come up and add anything to this and answer any questions from the board. Come up and introduce yourself, please. And I do wanna note that I missed, I didn't read the hours of operation. Their request is to operate 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. Monday through Sunday, which does meet the standard hours of operation within our B-3. Thank you, hello. Thank you, my name is Mitchell Harvey. I'm with Stonefield Engineering and Design. We're the civil engineer on the project. Really, Andrea always does such a good job of going through the project, so she steals all my thunder. But really, what we're kinda looking at here is a pretty unique site when it comes to shape. It's fairly narrow, but pretty deep. So really, it was a kind of a design challenge that we worked really close with the fire department as well as the planning team to come up with a site plan that can work on this kinda narrow lot. And really, we're really happy with the design that we arrived at with this. So the team would be the only one that we had to do and this is, um ... and this is, um ... you know, that's fully compliant with the fire department's requirements as well as the zoning ordinance. Just briefly on kind of some of the neat features of El Car Wash. They're able to recycle 90% of their water from wash to wash. There is a three-stage settling tank, a oil water separator, and then actually a reverse osmosis system that allows for a lot of this water to be reused from car to car. All their soaps are biodegradable, environmentally friendly, and then a majority of our drive-through or the stacking lane going into the tunnel and then as well as the lane exiting the tunnel is also going to be with heated concrete. So that prevents a lot of the ice buildup and snow buildup for the winter months.

  87. Really, Andrea always does such a good job of going through the project, so she steals all my thunder. But really, what we're kinda looking at here is a pretty unique site when it comes to shape. It's fairly narrow, but pretty deep. So really, it was a kind of a design challenge that we worked really close with the fire department as well as the planning team to come up with a site plan that can work on this kinda narrow lot. And really, we're really happy with the design that we arrived at with this. So the team would be the only one that we had to do and this is, um ... and this is, um ... you know, that's fully compliant with the fire department's requirements as well as the zoning ordinance. Just briefly on kind of some of the neat features of El Car Wash. They're able to recycle 90% of their water from wash to wash. There is a three-stage settling tank, a oil water separator, and then actually a reverse osmosis system that allows for a lot of this water to be reused from car to car. All their soaps are biodegradable, environmentally friendly, and then a majority of our drive-through or the stacking lane going into the tunnel and then as well as the lane exiting the tunnel is also going to be with heated concrete. So that prevents a lot of the ice buildup and snow buildup for the winter months. The enclosed vacuum is a pretty unique feature that we have here and really it offers our customers a pretty unique opportunity where you can actually go in and vacuum out your car during those beautiful February days when it's single digits and blowing. I'm sure everybody likes to do it then. So really a cool design that we thought we're really excited about, really working really close with planning and fire department. As well as MDOT, you know, they had a lot to say about it too. And I think we came to a marriage of a really good design that's really going to be beautiful in the community here. So the architects here, some members from El Carwasher here, and we're happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Any questions? No, just a comment. I might have said it at the planning. Commission it's a great concept it's a great design fits in nicely with the township actually it's very attractive for that area well thought out I like the fact that you have the heated concrete in addition to that something that's very important for safety purposes is having the interior road rather than having the engines directly off of telegraph into the car wash so that's well thought out and certainly adds a degree of safety so I think did a

  88. So that prevents a lot of the ice buildup and snow buildup for the winter months. The enclosed vacuum is a pretty unique feature that we have here and really it offers our customers a pretty unique opportunity where you can actually go in and vacuum out your car during those beautiful February days when it's single digits and blowing. I'm sure everybody likes to do it then. So really a cool design that we thought we're really excited about, really working really close with planning and fire department. As well as MDOT, you know, they had a lot to say about it too. And I think we came to a marriage of a really good design that's really going to be beautiful in the community here. So the architects here, some members from El Carwasher here, and we're happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you. Any questions? No, just a comment. I might have said it at the planning. Commission it's a great concept it's a great design fits in nicely with the township actually it's very attractive for that area well thought out I like the fact that you have the heated concrete in addition to that something that's very important for safety purposes is having the interior road rather than having the engines directly off of telegraph into the car wash so that's well thought out and certainly adds a degree of safety so I think did a great job thank you Chris yeah I just want to piggyback on Trustee Barnett this is an underserved business in our township I believe we currently have one we approved another one I'm a car guy it's kind of hard when you can't go get a nice car wash in your township so I think there's gonna be a great addition to the township as well as a great investment here so I appreciate that I really appreciate the fact that the entrance to it like he said is off the ring road so as your business expands it becomes very attractive all those cars stack on to the ring road not on the telegraph which again telegraph is already really busy area so again it doesn't have any impact there which is always important which came up in other areas we've talked about so again I think this is also a very smart design because you guys have to go to the ZPA to ask for anything until we get to the sign but in all I mean again you had a tough site and you were able to still build what you wanted and what's part of your brand in that site so I commend you thank you guys thank you any other questions or comments I have a question about the glass is it reflective or Hi, my name is Eric Myers, architect at Krieger Cloud Architects. The tint of the glass, you won't have a reflective glass where you're looking at it, it's like a mirror. You're going to be able to see into the structure, see what's going on inside of it.

  89. that's well thought out and certainly adds a degree of safety so I think did a great job thank you Chris yeah I just want to piggyback on Trustee Barnett this is an underserved business in our township I believe we currently have one we approved another one I'm a car guy it's kind of hard when you can't go get a nice car wash in your township so I think there's gonna be a great addition to the township as well as a great investment here so I appreciate that I really appreciate the fact that the entrance to it like he said is off the ring road so as your business expands it becomes very attractive all those cars stack on to the ring road not on the telegraph which again telegraph is already really busy area so again it doesn't have any impact there which is always important which came up in other areas we've talked about so again I think this is also a very smart design because you guys have to go to the ZPA to ask for anything until we get to the sign but in all I mean again you had a tough site and you were able to still build what you wanted and what's part of your brand in that site so I commend you thank you guys thank you any other questions or comments I have a question about the glass is it reflective or Hi, my name is Eric Myers, architect at Krieger Cloud Architects. The tint of the glass, you won't have a reflective glass where you're looking at it, it's like a mirror. You're going to be able to see into the structure, see what's going on inside of it. There'll be a slight tint, it won't be just clear as can be, but that's mostly to keep that space warm during the winter so you're keeping some of the heat coming in. It's a traditional clear with low-E coating or is it okay? And then it's low-reflective outdoor reflection? Correct. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments or questions? No. I think this is a great addition and I'm excited for you guys. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion. I'd like to make a motion that we approve it as submitted. Support. Support. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Bass is 7-0. Good luck. Congratulations, guys. Thank you. We'll hang out there on a Tuesday in February. Yeah. Item number seven. Consider approval of a site plan request of Birmingham Athletic Club at 4033 West Maple Road presented by Andrea. Welcome back, Andrea. I know. Hi. Thank you for having me. Okay. So this is the last proposal for me this evening. And this is for the Birmingham Athletic Club located at 4033 Maple Road. Highlighted on your screen you can see the existing layout of the...

  90. You're going to be able to see into the structure, see what's going on inside of it. There'll be a slight tint, it won't be just clear as can be, but that's mostly to keep that space warm during the winter so you're keeping some of the heat coming in. It's a traditional clear with low-E coating or is it okay? And then it's low-reflective outdoor reflection? Correct. Okay. Very good. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments or questions? No. I think this is a great addition and I'm excited for you guys. Thank you. I'll entertain a motion. I'd like to make a motion that we approve it as submitted. Support. Support. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Bass is 7-0. Good luck. Congratulations, guys. Thank you. We'll hang out there on a Tuesday in February. Yeah. Item number seven. Consider approval of a site plan request of Birmingham Athletic Club at 4033 West Maple Road presented by Andrea. Welcome back, Andrea. I know. Hi. Thank you for having me. Okay. So this is the last proposal for me this evening. And this is for the Birmingham Athletic Club located at 4033 Maple Road. Highlighted on your screen you can see the existing layout of the... Birmingham Athletic Club. Interesting enough, this property is comprised of, in the orange, it's actually multiple family residential. And then there are a few parcels that face along Oak Hills Drive, which are yellow, which is single family residential. And then in addition to that, there is a lease agreement in which they lease some of the property to the south of their site with the Country Manor, Country Club Manor condominiums. So it's a very interesting layout in terms of zoning and site configuration. So the proposal we have before you this evening is that the Birmingham Country Club is looking to do the following. They are looking to rebuild an existing service station hut, which is for food service. This is existing, it's in the Maple Road frontage, but due to the grade change, you can still really, wouldn't really be able to see it. So they are providing, they've provided elevations for the improvement to that existing service station. They are looking to extend the existing ground-level dining patio off the rear of the clubhouse.

  91. Birmingham Athletic Club. Interesting enough, this property is comprised of, in the orange, it's actually multiple family residential. And then there are a few parcels that face along Oak Hills Drive, which are yellow, which is single family residential. And then in addition to that, there is a lease agreement in which they lease some of the property to the south of their site with the Country Manor, Country Club Manor condominiums. So it's a very interesting layout in terms of zoning and site configuration. So the proposal we have before you this evening is that the Birmingham Country Club is looking to do the following. They are looking to rebuild an existing service station hut, which is for food service. This is existing, it's in the Maple Road frontage, but due to the grade change, you can still really, wouldn't really be able to see it. So they are providing, they've provided elevations for the improvement to that existing service station. They are looking to extend the existing ground-level dining patio off the rear of the clubhouse. They are looking to rebuild the existing Tiki Bar, which is also in the rear of their clubhouse. And last part of this proposal is they are seeking to convert the sports... Sports... which is currently a tennis court, is located to the further northeast of the site, right at the corner of Maple Road and Oak Hills. They are seeking to receive approval to allow for them to redo that sports court to allow for pickleball play. The applicant has provided details of their proposal. The subject property, as I noted, adjoins, as you saw on the zoning map, they do adjoin R3 single-family residential residents across Maple Road, as well as there is some 01 zoning, single-family residential zoning, as well as the RM residential multifamily zoning at the Country Club Manor. So it's sort of mixed in a variety of land classifications. The master plan use recommends recreational uses for the subject area.

  92. off the rear of the clubhouse. They are looking to rebuild the existing Tiki Bar, which is also in the rear of their clubhouse. And last part of this proposal is they are seeking to convert the sports... Sports... which is currently a tennis court, is located to the further northeast of the site, right at the corner of Maple Road and Oak Hills. They are seeking to receive approval to allow for them to redo that sports court to allow for pickleball play. The applicant has provided details of their proposal. The subject property, as I noted, adjoins, as you saw on the zoning map, they do adjoin R3 single-family residential residents across Maple Road, as well as there is some 01 zoning, single-family residential zoning, as well as the RM residential multifamily zoning at the Country Club Manor. So it's sort of mixed in a variety of land classifications. The master plan use recommends recreational uses for the subject area. I do want to note that the athletic club is actually an existing non-conforming use. We don't allow for athletic clubs within multiple-family residential. So anytime the club is looking to do any expansions or any additions, they have to go before the zoning board of appeals and seek an approval to expand their existing non-conformity, which includes being they're required to be 200 feet to the nearest residential lot line, which is not the case, but these are existing conditions. I'm not sure if they're everytime check it out. But I'm sure if in an apartment i got the right� of 10, where they sent a link time if the local can be out, that was the next two guys already had the apartment. So the student says, they're on this one page based off, but have a complete ending in totalwah for the Rangers they did receive those necessary variances to expand the existing nonconformities from the zoning board prior to this meeting. So additionally, because their ingress and egress is in the nonconformity in the sense that they don't meet the maximum right-of-way that's required, that was another variance. However, this is an existing condition that already exists on that current Maple Road. Off-street parking and general site layout ! is to remain the same and the changes to the sports court will include an eight-foot-high sound mitigating barrier fence as well as the addition of evergreen plantings

  93. The master plan use recommends recreational uses for the subject area. I do want to note that the athletic club is actually an existing non-conforming use. We don't allow for athletic clubs within multiple-family residential. So anytime the club is looking to do any expansions or any additions, they have to go before the zoning board of appeals and seek an approval to expand their existing non-conformity, which includes being they're required to be 200 feet to the nearest residential lot line, which is not the case, but these are existing conditions. I'm not sure if they're everytime check it out. But I'm sure if in an apartment i got the right� of 10, where they sent a link time if the local can be out, that was the next two guys already had the apartment. So the student says, they're on this one page based off, but have a complete ending in totalwah for the Rangers they did receive those necessary variances to expand the existing nonconformities from the zoning board prior to this meeting. So additionally, because their ingress and egress is in the nonconformity in the sense that they don't meet the maximum right-of-way that's required, that was another variance. However, this is an existing condition that already exists on that current Maple Road. Off-street parking and general site layout ! is to remain the same and the changes to the sports court will include an eight-foot-high sound mitigating barrier fence as well as the addition of evergreen plantings to fully screen that sound deafening or sound mitigating screen that they are proposing on the sports court. I do want to note that the applicant did provide a sound study. That sound study was looking at the impact of the pickleball sound and frequency in relationship to the existing ambient sound. The determination from that sound study is based on its location, and I know the club did spend a significant amount of time thinking about what the best location would be and what the least impact would be on their site to have pickleball, and that is why they chose this. And from that sound study, we did learn that the ambient... ambient, ambient, traffic sound is actually about the same, if not higher, than the impact of pickleball. So that being said, we did have it reviewed. Our HRC, we have a sound engineer that reviewed that study. He was supportive of that finding. And again, I do want to note that they are taking an effort to add that sound mitigating screen to the north and south of that proposed pickleball area. So from that, I do want to go through some of the proposed changes in elevations.

  94. as well as the addition of evergreen plantings to fully screen that sound deafening or sound mitigating screen that they are proposing on the sports court. I do want to note that the applicant did provide a sound study. That sound study was looking at the impact of the pickleball sound and frequency in relationship to the existing ambient sound. The determination from that sound study is based on its location, and I know the club did spend a significant amount of time thinking about what the best location would be and what the least impact would be on their site to have pickleball, and that is why they chose this. And from that sound study, we did learn that the ambient... ambient, ambient, traffic sound is actually about the same, if not higher, than the impact of pickleball. So that being said, we did have it reviewed. Our HRC, we have a sound engineer that reviewed that study. He was supportive of that finding. And again, I do want to note that they are taking an effort to add that sound mitigating screen to the north and south of that proposed pickleball area. So from that, I do want to go through some of the proposed changes in elevations. Bottom left-hand side indicates the rebuilding of their tiki huts. Right-hand side is that food service hut that I was referring to. These are both items that currently exist within what we would consider the Maple Road frontage because, again, another unique thing about this site is that it's essentially surrounded or a lot of things occur within front yards. So they did receive reverences for these items. This is some 3D renderings, although it looks real. I guess it's really good technology, but you almost feel like you're there. So there's the expanded patio they're showing behind the tiki hut, an overview from essentially what would be from Maple Road if you could see over the vegetation from Maple Road. So with that, I stated that this was reviewed by our various departments. The variances were granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals. So we are recommending that the board consider... the conditions for the addition of the pickleball use as well as the remodeling and re-expansion of some of these structures. I do want to note that at the Planning Commission meeting, there was some discussion by the board members

  95. Bottom left-hand side indicates the rebuilding of their tiki huts. Right-hand side is that food service hut that I was referring to. These are both items that currently exist within what we would consider the Maple Road frontage because, again, another unique thing about this site is that it's essentially surrounded or a lot of things occur within front yards. So they did receive reverences for these items. This is some 3D renderings, although it looks real. I guess it's really good technology, but you almost feel like you're there. So there's the expanded patio they're showing behind the tiki hut, an overview from essentially what would be from Maple Road if you could see over the vegetation from Maple Road. So with that, I stated that this was reviewed by our various departments. The variances were granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals. So we are recommending that the board consider... the conditions for the addition of the pickleball use as well as the remodeling and re-expansion of some of these structures. I do want to note that at the Planning Commission meeting, there was some discussion by the board members at that meeting, and within your packet, you will see the recommendations that were made by the Planning Commission back in July 21st of 2025. At that time, I did want to note that the Planning Commission stated in their motion that the pickleball must stop at dusk and may not extend with artificial lighting, which is common within the township. We don't allow for sports events to occur late into the evening with artificial lighting. The club is aware of that requirement. And I also want to note that the club will look into a consideration of any expansion of the sound barrier if there are any noise complaints. So that was a safeguard that the Planning Commission felt that they wanted to have the applicant can understand that if there are noise complaints or any issues, that they would be accountable to address some of those concerns. And then lastly, there was a motion that included that the pickleball that was currently happening on their site on sports courts that were not approved specifically for pickleball, that they had to cease immediately. So that was some of the discussion I want to share with you that came from our Planning Commission. But tonight, the board is being asked to consider under what conditions that they would approve this proposal. And I did continue into those five...

  96. there was some discussion by the board members at that meeting, and within your packet, you will see the recommendations that were made by the Planning Commission back in July 21st of 2025. At that time, I did want to note that the Planning Commission stated in their motion that the pickleball must stop at dusk and may not extend with artificial lighting, which is common within the township. We don't allow for sports events to occur late into the evening with artificial lighting. The club is aware of that requirement. And I also want to note that the club will look into a consideration of any expansion of the sound barrier if there are any noise complaints. So that was a safeguard that the Planning Commission felt that they wanted to have the applicant can understand that if there are noise complaints or any issues, that they would be accountable to address some of those concerns. And then lastly, there was a motion that included that the pickleball that was currently happening on their site on sports courts that were not approved specifically for pickleball, that they had to cease immediately. So that was some of the discussion I want to share with you that came from our Planning Commission. But tonight, the board is being asked to consider under what conditions that they would approve this proposal. And I did continue into those five... conditions the same conditions that the planning commission um provided with that i know we have the applicant here i can certainly answer any questions as well thank you andrea yeah the applicant here if you'd like to come up and have anything you'd like to say or present to the board introduce yourself good evening alex sorokhi with sorokhi architecture we're the architects for the project uh here with me this evening from the birmingham athletic club uh is the president uh jess berline and the general manager derek jacques i also have rick ratner from wwrp and nick devlin from cunningham limp thank you andrea for the great presentation um i'll just add that we were very strategic in the location of the pickleball courts furthest away from our residential neighbors and obviously with the addition of the acoustic fence product it really makes a difference uh for that residential neighbor at his property line um i also add that the club has met with the adjacent uh neighbors they've met with the country club manor condo association they've also met with the oak hills homeowners association and with the neighbor uh directly to the south of them and we believe we've addressed all of their concerns uh so with

  97. conditions the same conditions that the planning commission um provided with that i know we have the applicant here i can certainly answer any questions as well thank you andrea yeah the applicant here if you'd like to come up and have anything you'd like to say or present to the board introduce yourself good evening alex sorokhi with sorokhi architecture we're the architects for the project uh here with me this evening from the birmingham athletic club uh is the president uh jess berline and the general manager derek jacques i also have rick ratner from wwrp and nick devlin from cunningham limp thank you andrea for the great presentation um i'll just add that we were very strategic in the location of the pickleball courts furthest away from our residential neighbors and obviously with the addition of the acoustic fence product it really makes a difference uh for that residential neighbor at his property line um i also add that the club has met with the adjacent uh neighbors they've met with the country club manor condo association they've also met with the oak hills homeowners association and with the neighbor uh directly to the south of them and we believe we've addressed all of their concerns uh so with that obviously happy to answer any questions well i it looks like you know like a lovely um plan but i do have concerns because in have questions here uh the packet that you were using pickleball on the courts without, you know, proper approvals, were you getting complaints? So we did have a couple of complaints, but I don't think when they were given, it's a sports court, I don't think they understood that that wasn't allowed. And so they caught it at the playing board. I don't think they did anything to not follow. No, it's just, time elapsed. I'm just curious that, you know, how long was pickleball going on and was it brought to our attention because of complaints or just part of, you know, I haven't received complaints. I've had conversations with the neighbors since we've received the site plan, but I can't say historically we've had a lot of complaints on the athletic club for pickleball per se. Because we do get complaints about pickleball because of the noise. I can tell it. Go ahead. Can I finish up? I'll give you more information. And I appreciate the sound mitigation and that you put it up right in that front corner. Because I'm reading the whole thing. I get it on Thursday night, so I'm not familiar with all the plans. And it all started to make great sense. And I thought

  98. uh directly to the south of them and we believe we've addressed all of their concerns uh so with that obviously happy to answer any questions well i it looks like you know like a lovely um plan but i do have concerns because in have questions here uh the packet that you were using pickleball on the courts without, you know, proper approvals, were you getting complaints? So we did have a couple of complaints, but I don't think when they were given, it's a sports court, I don't think they understood that that wasn't allowed. And so they caught it at the playing board. I don't think they did anything to not follow. No, it's just, time elapsed. I'm just curious that, you know, how long was pickleball going on and was it brought to our attention because of complaints or just part of, you know, I haven't received complaints. I've had conversations with the neighbors since we've received the site plan, but I can't say historically we've had a lot of complaints on the athletic club for pickleball per se. Because we do get complaints about pickleball because of the noise. I can tell it. Go ahead. Can I finish up? I'll give you more information. And I appreciate the sound mitigation and that you put it up right in that front corner. Because I'm reading the whole thing. I get it on Thursday night, so I'm not familiar with all the plans. And it all started to make great sense. And I thought that's where I could picture it. But you talked about talking to the people all on behind and next door. But what about the people across Maple? Do they have any concerns? So the sound, I'll just say the noise generated from pickleball, and this is something we learned through the acoustic study, is less than the ambient traffic noise of Maple Road. So, really, across Maple, our neighbors shouldn't hear any pickleball noise. Okay. All right. Thank you. If I can add up. I want to add. Just a second, Mark. I think. Okay. One second, Mark. To go along with what you just said, Alex, I was just at the corner of Oak Hills and Maple over the weekend speaking to somebody, and the traffic noise, the ambient noise from the traffic was so loud that it was difficult to hear each other. So, the placement of the pickleball, the new pickleball court, is well thought out. That's the area that the homeowners across the street will not hear it, especially with the sound barrier. The Oakland Hills Country Club subdivision, they approved it, I mean, and they're protecting

  99. night, so I'm not familiar with all the plans. And it all started to make great sense. And I thought that's where I could picture it. But you talked about talking to the people all on behind and next door. But what about the people across Maple? Do they have any concerns? So the sound, I'll just say the noise generated from pickleball, and this is something we learned through the acoustic study, is less than the ambient traffic noise of Maple Road. So, really, across Maple, our neighbors shouldn't hear any pickleball noise. Okay. All right. Thank you. If I can add up. I want to add. Just a second, Mark. I think. Okay. One second, Mark. To go along with what you just said, Alex, I was just at the corner of Oak Hills and Maple over the weekend speaking to somebody, and the traffic noise, the ambient noise from the traffic was so loud that it was difficult to hear each other. So, the placement of the pickleball, the new pickleball court, is well thought out. That's the area that the homeowners across the street will not hear it, especially with the sound barrier. The Oakland Hills Country Club subdivision, they approved it, I mean, and they're protecting all of their neighbors. In addition to that, the issue you were referring to was just something that came out. Out of the blue. So, that was not a concern at all. But they've done a great job. You guys have done a really well thought out job on this. Besides the fact, of course, it's very attractive with the addition of the outside eating area and the tiki bar, I know how controversial pickleball can be to those who don't take the time and the effort and the expense to mitigate the sound and you have. So, it's not going to be an issue. So, it's not going to be an issue. And I know . with the additional caveat that the sound will be addressed if necessary with additional sound barriers. So, I mean, it's really, I think a win-win for the club. It's good for the neighborhood. And I think you've done an outstanding job. Thank you. Mark? I just want to touch on Val's comment. For me, I'm kind of confused on the pickleball tennis thing, but noise is noise.

  100. The Oakland Hills Country Club subdivision, they approved it, I mean, and they're protecting all of their neighbors. In addition to that, the issue you were referring to was just something that came out. Out of the blue. So, that was not a concern at all. But they've done a great job. You guys have done a really well thought out job on this. Besides the fact, of course, it's very attractive with the addition of the outside eating area and the tiki bar, I know how controversial pickleball can be to those who don't take the time and the effort and the expense to mitigate the sound and you have. So, it's not going to be an issue. So, it's not going to be an issue. And I know . with the additional caveat that the sound will be addressed if necessary with additional sound barriers. So, I mean, it's really, I think a win-win for the club. It's good for the neighborhood. And I think you've done an outstanding job. Thank you. Mark? I just want to touch on Val's comment. For me, I'm kind of confused on the pickleball tennis thing, but noise is noise. And for me, if you were playing for several weeks and no one was complaining of the sound, that gives me more assurance and a better comfort level of that the sound's going to be okay. And to Val's question, you know, were you playing a couple days? Or was it, and it's not about right or wrong, it's about noise that I'm asking the question? Because I, for me, tennis or pickleball, they're both can be very loud. Sure. So, Derek's walking up, maybe he can address it as well. But it was more than, I think it was a couple seasons is my understanding. And the club received no complaints about pickleball. And my understanding is the township also didn't receive any complaints about pickleball being played on the current paddle courts. I did. I received one. One? Okay. um okay i was not aware of that but um but it stopped when it stopped yes obviously after the planning commission meeting the no pickleball uh has occurred on the paddle courts well but but for me it's comforting to know that the sound was not an issue for a significant

  101. but noise is noise. And for me, if you were playing for several weeks and no one was complaining of the sound, that gives me more assurance and a better comfort level of that the sound's going to be okay. And to Val's question, you know, were you playing a couple days? Or was it, and it's not about right or wrong, it's about noise that I'm asking the question? Because I, for me, tennis or pickleball, they're both can be very loud. Sure. So, Derek's walking up, maybe he can address it as well. But it was more than, I think it was a couple seasons is my understanding. And the club received no complaints about pickleball. And my understanding is the township also didn't receive any complaints about pickleball being played on the current paddle courts. I did. I received one. One? Okay. um okay i was not aware of that but um but it stopped when it stopped yes obviously after the planning commission meeting the no pickleball uh has occurred on the paddle courts well but but for me it's comforting to know that the sound was not an issue for a significant amount of time and the additional steps you're taking are very valid and i i appreciate that thoughtfulness um and i i had one question about the material is it also um is it sound deadening meaning it disperses the sound waves so it also benefits the members as well because of the sound from maple road so it does it absorbs the sound and it deadens the the decibel level for anything behind it so actually the the property owner directly to the south of us just from the ambient noise from maple at his property line uh it's 55 decibels but with this acoustic barrier in place um it's 45 decibels so it's actually actually drops it because nothing is reflecting off of fantastic thank you for sharing when this came to zba this was something that we talked about we appreciate you guys taking the extra steps to try to mitigate noise and being thoughtful about placement as trustee barnett had said and again trying to be good

  102. well but but for me it's comforting to know that the sound was not an issue for a significant amount of time and the additional steps you're taking are very valid and i i appreciate that thoughtfulness um and i i had one question about the material is it also um is it sound deadening meaning it disperses the sound waves so it also benefits the members as well because of the sound from maple road so it does it absorbs the sound and it deadens the the decibel level for anything behind it so actually the the property owner directly to the south of us just from the ambient noise from maple at his property line uh it's 55 decibels but with this acoustic barrier in place um it's 45 decibels so it's actually actually drops it because nothing is reflecting off of fantastic thank you for sharing when this came to zba this was something that we talked about we appreciate you guys taking the extra steps to try to mitigate noise and being thoughtful about placement as trustee barnett had said and again trying to be good neighbors to continue to work with them and then as planning commission put in if there are complaints we'll continue to further mitigate that noise again this is still working to be a good neighbor and be good member of the community which I really appreciate so I have no problem with it and believe we got it right through ZBA with no problem so again thank you very much for bringing it to us we appreciate you investing in the council thank you yeah I'm ready to make a motion unless there's any other comments that we that we approve this as presented support all the conditions all in favor say aye aye any opposed that's enough good luck congratulations thank you item number eight employee improve employee agreement from Jennifer Herring our township human resources director in your packet was the compensation plan and the contract for Jennifer I don't know if you have any questions but this is I guess our standard procedure to move forward with her agreement and I will sign it up upon approval of the board any questions no questions to comment again I know this is something we've talked about at length about getting this in the township I think this is a great thing I'm looking forward to having this professional person you can see they have so much experience and again they're gonna bring a wealth of knowledge of the township and just continue to help us move forward

  103. neighbors to continue to work with them and then as planning commission put in if there are complaints we'll continue to further mitigate that noise again this is still working to be a good neighbor and be good member of the community which I really appreciate so I have no problem with it and believe we got it right through ZBA with no problem so again thank you very much for bringing it to us we appreciate you investing in the council thank you yeah I'm ready to make a motion unless there's any other comments that we that we approve this as presented support all the conditions all in favor say aye aye any opposed that's enough good luck congratulations thank you item number eight employee improve employee agreement from Jennifer Herring our township human resources director in your packet was the compensation plan and the contract for Jennifer I don't know if you have any questions but this is I guess our standard procedure to move forward with her agreement and I will sign it up upon approval of the board any questions no questions to comment again I know this is something we've talked about at length about getting this in the township I think this is a great thing I'm looking forward to having this professional person you can see they have so much experience and again they're gonna bring a wealth of knowledge of the township and just continue to help us move forward so I really appreciate you taking the time and waiting to find the right person to fit the job not just somebody to fit the job I think it's gonna be a great addition to our team thanks Chris no I agree a hundred percent it's something I've certainly been very much in favor of have been trying to get here for the past several years so I'm glad you have moved forward and saw the wisdom of doing this I think it's it's great for the professionalism of the township I think it puts us in a much safer legal position than we have been in the past without this person in place so thank you very much. Mark? I was wondering how the what additional tasks will this individual be doing that are not currently being performed? I've been creating a list of items that I've been watching and knowledge and then I'm gonna have to sit down with Jennifer and our team and develop a 30 60 90 day plan and I kind of got an outline of that right now and and I don't want to go through step by step because they don't have in front of me but I'll give you a couple of for instances we don't really have an onboarding program and we don't have an exit interview program and then you fill in everything in between. And then what

  104. a wealth of knowledge of the township and just continue to help us move forward so I really appreciate you taking the time and waiting to find the right person to fit the job not just somebody to fit the job I think it's gonna be a great addition to our team thanks Chris no I agree a hundred percent it's something I've certainly been very much in favor of have been trying to get here for the past several years so I'm glad you have moved forward and saw the wisdom of doing this I think it's it's great for the professionalism of the township I think it puts us in a much safer legal position than we have been in the past without this person in place so thank you very much. Mark? I was wondering how the what additional tasks will this individual be doing that are not currently being performed? I've been creating a list of items that I've been watching and knowledge and then I'm gonna have to sit down with Jennifer and our team and develop a 30 60 90 day plan and I kind of got an outline of that right now and and I don't want to go through step by step because they don't have in front of me but I'll give you a couple of for instances we don't really have an onboarding program and we don't have an exit interview program and then you fill in everything in between. And then what will be the impact to the central services fees? Central services fees and give me an example of what you mean. So this will obviously be a shared resource so what would be the impact on central services fees? Oh you mean if we're charging back? Yeah. Well I don't know that we do because our other directors help out in other areas I believe so I don't know if that would be any chargeback. Is that well there will be a study. Yeah. And that study will advise us to the Township as to what fees to assess at that time. Okay. And I don't believe anything's, it hasn't been sent out yet for a study, so it's unknown, likely to be some, but unknown. It's not every couple years. But again, we had already budgeted for this position. We had already put this as part of your budget that you submitted. Yeah, we approved it months ago. Yeah. Right. But, I mean, those, yeah. Can I add to that, you know, that the Supervisor McCready, you know, had a very thorough process. I mean, I was involved, Treasurer Shostak was involved in every step of the process. Department heads, current, you know, benefits in HR, folks, finance. So it's been a very thorough review. Everyone who was very thoroughly impressed by Jennifer and, or, you know, I, for one, I'm

  105. exit interview program and then you fill in everything in between. And then what will be the impact to the central services fees? Central services fees and give me an example of what you mean. So this will obviously be a shared resource so what would be the impact on central services fees? Oh you mean if we're charging back? Yeah. Well I don't know that we do because our other directors help out in other areas I believe so I don't know if that would be any chargeback. Is that well there will be a study. Yeah. And that study will advise us to the Township as to what fees to assess at that time. Okay. And I don't believe anything's, it hasn't been sent out yet for a study, so it's unknown, likely to be some, but unknown. It's not every couple years. But again, we had already budgeted for this position. We had already put this as part of your budget that you submitted. Yeah, we approved it months ago. Yeah. Right. But, I mean, those, yeah. Can I add to that, you know, that the Supervisor McCready, you know, had a very thorough process. I mean, I was involved, Treasurer Shostak was involved in every step of the process. Department heads, current, you know, benefits in HR, folks, finance. So it's been a very thorough review. Everyone who was very thoroughly impressed by Jennifer and, or, you know, I, for one, I'm looking forward to having her here and I think everybody else is too. Okay. Any other comments? If not, I'll entertain a motion. We'll make that motion. Support. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes 7-0. Thank you. Excuse me. Item number nine. Consider amending the 2025 Board of Trustees schedule for regular meetings to start meetings at 630. Presented by Martin. Hello. Clerk. Hello. So our meeting in July, July 28th meeting, we introduced the item to consider moving the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees meetings from seven o'clock to 630. And now, bringing it back to the board for decision. Between then and now, as I indicated in the memo, my office has not received any email correspondence for or against the item. At the evening of July 28th, one person did speak to me opposed to the item, but there has not been a response from the community. There was a very great comment tonight about the idea that if notices have already been sent concerning timing of meetings, you know, we would

  106. who was very thoroughly impressed by Jennifer and, or, you know, I, for one, I'm looking forward to having her here and I think everybody else is too. Okay. Any other comments? If not, I'll entertain a motion. We'll make that motion. Support. All in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Passes 7-0. Thank you. Excuse me. Item number nine. Consider amending the 2025 Board of Trustees schedule for regular meetings to start meetings at 630. Presented by Martin. Hello. Clerk. Hello. So our meeting in July, July 28th meeting, we introduced the item to consider moving the Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees meetings from seven o'clock to 630. And now, bringing it back to the board for decision. Between then and now, as I indicated in the memo, my office has not received any email correspondence for or against the item. At the evening of July 28th, one person did speak to me opposed to the item, but there has not been a response from the community. There was a very great comment tonight about the idea that if notices have already been sent concerning timing of meetings, you know, we would would be adhering to those. And I can mention that at the Board of Trustees level, our next meeting is not two weeks from today because of religious holidays. It's pushed back another week. So it's three weeks from today on Monday, September 29th. Just mark your calendars. And we have not sent out any notices about that date, setting the time. So we're free to change it effective the next meeting. Between July 28th and today, the item was reviewed by the ZBA and the Planning Commission and they were in support of it. The intent is that every commission board will have the same starting time. They'll need to make their own vote on that and their own notice change, which will adhere to the noticing that they've already provided. But so the action tonight that I'm requesting is that the Board considers moving its meetings from 7 to 6 30 and to do that would be to amend the Board of Trustees scheduled regular meetings to indicate that meetings start at 6 30 effective immediately. Martin, does there have to be a 30-day notice at all after any action we take on this? No.

  107. notices have already been sent concerning timing of meetings, you know, we would would be adhering to those. And I can mention that at the Board of Trustees level, our next meeting is not two weeks from today because of religious holidays. It's pushed back another week. So it's three weeks from today on Monday, September 29th. Just mark your calendars. And we have not sent out any notices about that date, setting the time. So we're free to change it effective the next meeting. Between July 28th and today, the item was reviewed by the ZBA and the Planning Commission and they were in support of it. The intent is that every commission board will have the same starting time. They'll need to make their own vote on that and their own notice change, which will adhere to the noticing that they've already provided. But so the action tonight that I'm requesting is that the Board considers moving its meetings from 7 to 6 30 and to do that would be to amend the Board of Trustees scheduled regular meetings to indicate that meetings start at 6 30 effective immediately. Martin, does there have to be a 30-day notice at all after any action we take on this? No. Okay. From a legal standpoint? Right. No. Okay. No. So I'm I'm in favor of no problem if we start at 6 30 there's a lot of advantages to it but I am concerned that you know I don't know how many people are like me but I put meetings and dates and things on a calendar way in advance and to change that you know the same month and I think it might also be better to wait till the other boards and if they're all going to change then we can put out a notice all at once but I guess I would rather wait for the other boards and which they probably will want to go this way but we don't know that and change it starting with the other boards did review this and they and they did agree with this concept and will act at their next meetings. Okay I guess I've just personally thought it would start like January 1st new calendar new year new times it just seems like it was a great idea and I don't have a problem with it but it seems like it's kind of been quickly done and you know if someone misses the notice and they're trying to get here for public comment it's not they're too late.

  108. does there have to be a 30-day notice at all after any action we take on this? No. Okay. From a legal standpoint? Right. No. Okay. No. So I'm I'm in favor of no problem if we start at 6 30 there's a lot of advantages to it but I am concerned that you know I don't know how many people are like me but I put meetings and dates and things on a calendar way in advance and to change that you know the same month and I think it might also be better to wait till the other boards and if they're all going to change then we can put out a notice all at once but I guess I would rather wait for the other boards and which they probably will want to go this way but we don't know that and change it starting with the other boards did review this and they and they did agree with this concept and will act at their next meetings. Okay I guess I've just personally thought it would start like January 1st new calendar new year new times it just seems like it was a great idea and I don't have a problem with it but it seems like it's kind of been quickly done and you know if someone misses the notice and they're trying to get here for public comment it's not they're too late. note too that the quickly done part I guess I really disagree with many items come to the board and are voted on the very first time it shows up this came to us almost two months ago and the community has seen it the media has seen it individuals are involved in various committees and the ZBA has seen it we're bringing it back now in a conscious slow process that has allowed everybody who wanted to comment to come and comment on it and you know remarkably there's been no comments we put the deer item on and of course that's a copy it got five people here tonight commenting and that just was a released on Tuesday Thursday so all those great points are great they're just the thing about for rushing it I okay so it wasn't rushed I'll take thank you but my point still stands that maybe we should wait and see what all the boards want to do they're likely going to want to do it as well and start like in January 1st with our calendar when it comes out I just think that that's a reasonable thing and I don't understand I was surprised I was surprised after it came up that it was going to be implemented like now immediately okay let's the boards have the Planning Commission and the ZBA have already stated they wanted it 630 you

  109. note too that the quickly done part I guess I really disagree with many items come to the board and are voted on the very first time it shows up this came to us almost two months ago and the community has seen it the media has seen it individuals are involved in various committees and the ZBA has seen it we're bringing it back now in a conscious slow process that has allowed everybody who wanted to comment to come and comment on it and you know remarkably there's been no comments we put the deer item on and of course that's a copy it got five people here tonight commenting and that just was a released on Tuesday Thursday so all those great points are great they're just the thing about for rushing it I okay so it wasn't rushed I'll take thank you but my point still stands that maybe we should wait and see what all the boards want to do they're likely going to want to do it as well and start like in January 1st with our calendar when it comes out I just think that that's a reasonable thing and I don't understand I was surprised I was surprised after it came up that it was going to be implemented like now immediately okay let's the boards have the Planning Commission and the ZBA have already stated they wanted it 630 you just have to vote on but it's a done deal they've already they've already agreed to that that they've made their made it very clear I think we should start this as soon as we whatever action we take I do not believe we should be waiting till January 1st you did not rush this this was a very deliberate well thought out plan that was introduced certainly on the website when people are interested in coming to our meetings if there's an issue they're aware of that interests them they know what time it's going to be now if they thought it was seven o'clock they're going to see the agenda which would say 630 if that's the action that the board will take so I really don't have those concerns my concerns regarding this topic are more related to participation of our residents and government the requirement to participate is to be a resident they're not required to work inside the township and some of our employees work further away over an hour away other residents have children in school younger children and if one of

  110. the Planning Commission and the ZBA have already stated they wanted it 630 you just have to vote on but it's a done deal they've already they've already agreed to that that they've made their made it very clear I think we should start this as soon as we whatever action we take I do not believe we should be waiting till January 1st you did not rush this this was a very deliberate well thought out plan that was introduced certainly on the website when people are interested in coming to our meetings if there's an issue they're aware of that interests them they know what time it's going to be now if they thought it was seven o'clock they're going to see the agenda which would say 630 if that's the action that the board will take so I really don't have those concerns my concerns regarding this topic are more related to participation of our residents and government the requirement to participate is to be a resident they're not required to work inside the township and some of our employees work further away over an hour away other residents have children in school younger children and if one of the parents or they're by themselves single parent it takes time to get the kids organized get home from work pick them up get them organized and come and attend a meeting so I don't I am concerned about restricting access because of personal issues to get here by seven to participate in public comment and and I think it's appropriate for us to also look look at and consider Chief LaRoy's presentation about traffic accidents and fire departments going out and the number of accidents seem to decline after 6 30 not before so asking our residents to be in a higher traffic time I think especially if they are trying to get home from work they look further away I work with people in the GM Warren Tech Center sometimes they're at the tech center sometimes they're up at Flint sometimes they're up in Hamtramck and if they live in the township it makes it very difficult with their unique schedules to get here by 6 30 and I think it does a disservice to our residents

  111. away other residents have children in school younger children and if one of the parents or they're by themselves single parent it takes time to get the kids organized get home from work pick them up get them organized and come and attend a meeting so I don't I am concerned about restricting access because of personal issues to get here by seven to participate in public comment and and I think it's appropriate for us to also look look at and consider Chief LaRoy's presentation about traffic accidents and fire departments going out and the number of accidents seem to decline after 6 30 not before so asking our residents to be in a higher traffic time I think especially if they are trying to get home from work they look further away I work with people in the GM Warren Tech Center sometimes they're at the tech center sometimes they're up at Flint sometimes they're up in Hamtramck and if they live in the township it makes it very difficult with their unique schedules to get here by 6 30 and I think it does a disservice to our residents that want to participate in our local government and to have a voice okay any other comments I got one so I can appreciate all the comments here but saying that we're limiting access for our residents I find that to be false when the meetings come out or the brochures come out on Thursday my phone's on my emails on I meet with residents not just here but after hours that's the point of being a trustee is being accessible to all of our residents working around their schedules because some people work nontraditional schedule I work a nontraditional schedule I work a 24-hour shift when I work so it might not match everybody else's so I try to make myself available and work around even some of the residents that came here tonight we met with them after hours for a couple hours to over some of their issues so it's not just public comment that i'm listening to residents about their concerns it is throughout the entire time so whether it's at 6 30 i hear their problems or it's five o'clock in a weekend i'm trying to make myself available there's one only one time they can do public comment but their public comment is well first they can email in which is allowed and it's part of the packet can be part of the minutes as well as the fact that

  112. schedules to get here by 6 30 and I think it does a disservice to our residents that want to participate in our local government and to have a voice okay any other comments I got one so I can appreciate all the comments here but saying that we're limiting access for our residents I find that to be false when the meetings come out or the brochures come out on Thursday my phone's on my emails on I meet with residents not just here but after hours that's the point of being a trustee is being accessible to all of our residents working around their schedules because some people work nontraditional schedule I work a nontraditional schedule I work a 24-hour shift when I work so it might not match everybody else's so I try to make myself available and work around even some of the residents that came here tonight we met with them after hours for a couple hours to over some of their issues so it's not just public comment that i'm listening to residents about their concerns it is throughout the entire time so whether it's at 6 30 i hear their problems or it's five o'clock in a weekend i'm trying to make myself available there's one only one time they can do public comment but their public comment is well first they can email in which is allowed and it's part of the packet can be part of the minutes as well as the fact that i'm still hearing their voice and still making sure that their voice and their opinions are being influenced in my decisions so i know valerie and i met with some candidates and some people that were having issues and again it doesn't have to always occur during a meeting that's what being a representative is it's about meeting with your constituents not just during meetings but all hours that's what we're here for so and i know myself trustee barnett we've met with residents all different times because that's that's the point i have as well so it's not just being here at 6 30 so i think we are not not providing we're providing plenty of access for people to voice their concerns and we continue to do that so um i think 6 30 starting is appropriate again i agree with um one of our residents about anything that's been noticed to making sure that that's still we stand and we honor that and that makes sense to me and when we talk about zba tomorrow we'll be addressing that particular one so i'm in favor of it starting at the next meeting and thank you again martin for putting this together we gave ample time for people to voice their concerns. Yeah thank thank you I and I wanted to mention as well I mean I wouldn't suggest it if I thought for a second it would result in excluding people who couldn't be here or have or reducing folks voices and in fact if you know if we make this change

  113. which is allowed and it's part of the packet can be part of the minutes as well as the fact that i'm still hearing their voice and still making sure that their voice and their opinions are being influenced in my decisions so i know valerie and i met with some candidates and some people that were having issues and again it doesn't have to always occur during a meeting that's what being a representative is it's about meeting with your constituents not just during meetings but all hours that's what we're here for so and i know myself trustee barnett we've met with residents all different times because that's that's the point i have as well so it's not just being here at 6 30 so i think we are not not providing we're providing plenty of access for people to voice their concerns and we continue to do that so um i think 6 30 starting is appropriate again i agree with um one of our residents about anything that's been noticed to making sure that that's still we stand and we honor that and that makes sense to me and when we talk about zba tomorrow we'll be addressing that particular one so i'm in favor of it starting at the next meeting and thank you again martin for putting this together we gave ample time for people to voice their concerns. Yeah thank thank you I and I wanted to mention as well I mean I wouldn't suggest it if I thought for a second it would result in excluding people who couldn't be here or have or reducing folks voices and in fact if you know if we make this change and we find a year later that you know that there are issues which we should be open to making a change again and I don't think any of us are looking for that or want that or or would it were or would continue to set a time that was contrary to public participation so I guess I just you know it's been seven o'clock forever and if people aren't it was other times before it was eight o'clock before how many years ago doesn't matter if things change but I can speak from my own experience that earlier this year I serve on another board you guys know that preservation Bloomfield we meet at 2 p.m. on the third Tuesday of the month and they did a call around and said can everybody meet at 1230 but nobody called me and I showed up to the meeting at two o'clock walked in and I was like wow they're all like I already I felt like weird like I'm not late usually they start both kind of slow and and the woman next to me she goes she goes well you know Michael called around and I was like and I just sat there quietly and what I found out later was he did call around he didn't call everybody and I got the agenda and I looked at the

  114. have or reducing folks voices and in fact if you know if we make this change and we find a year later that you know that there are issues which we should be open to making a change again and I don't think any of us are looking for that or want that or or would it were or would continue to set a time that was contrary to public participation so I guess I just you know it's been seven o'clock forever and if people aren't it was other times before it was eight o'clock before how many years ago doesn't matter if things change but I can speak from my own experience that earlier this year I serve on another board you guys know that preservation Bloomfield we meet at 2 p.m. on the third Tuesday of the month and they did a call around and said can everybody meet at 1230 but nobody called me and I showed up to the meeting at two o'clock walked in and I was like wow they're all like I already I felt like weird like I'm not late usually they start both kind of slow and and the woman next to me she goes she goes well you know Michael called around and I was like and I just sat there quietly and what I found out later was he did call around he didn't call everybody and I got the agenda and I looked at the agenda i'm real good about my email i read the agenda but i didn't see at the top that it was changed to 12 30 and we never changed the time so my point is just that in a change you know like how many viewers do we have people aren't studying and watching us when they have an issue and they want to come and if they've got it in their head that it's seven they're going to miss that opportunity for public comment on their issue which may only come up once or twice in all the years they live here who knows that's my concern and that's why not to say it was rushed but i feel like it should be talked about longer than making the change in two weeks i mean i would first october meetings you know a fine time to start too but that gives us more time if you're happier if we because we move it back to first october meeting i mean i'm yes i would be happier than than september but okay i'd like to make a motion then i'd like to make a motion that we uh accept the 6 30 p.m starting time for the board of trustees meetings effective um october 1st for the first meeting october first meeting in october correct okay first meeting october okay support support all in favor say aye aye opposed nay okay six to one thank you item number 10 board history snapshot september 8 1925 zoning

  115. agenda i'm real good about my email i read the agenda but i didn't see at the top that it was changed to 12 30 and we never changed the time so my point is just that in a change you know like how many viewers do we have people aren't studying and watching us when they have an issue and they want to come and if they've got it in their head that it's seven they're going to miss that opportunity for public comment on their issue which may only come up once or twice in all the years they live here who knows that's my concern and that's why not to say it was rushed but i feel like it should be talked about longer than making the change in two weeks i mean i would first october meetings you know a fine time to start too but that gives us more time if you're happier if we because we move it back to first october meeting i mean i'm yes i would be happier than than september but okay i'd like to make a motion then i'd like to make a motion that we uh accept the 6 30 p.m starting time for the board of trustees meetings effective um october 1st for the first meeting october first meeting in october correct okay first meeting october okay support support all in favor say aye aye opposed nay okay six to one thank you item number 10 board history snapshot september 8 1925 zoning board presented by martin brooke uh township clerk martin you know um got a bit of history here for us yeah yeah i love talking about history and Sean's going to help me do this presentation. You know, sometimes things just line up. And here's a great example of history sort of lining up. Literally 100 years ago today, Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees adopted its first land use planning requirements, or in other words, zoning, literally 100 years ago today. It's in the minutes. It's interesting. And I wanted to review it. But, you know, Bloomfield Township just didn't drop out of the sky in its current form. People were involved. People were advocated for different approaches and philosophies. Sometimes it was easy. Sometimes it was hard. But, you know, I just want to sort of recognize that and help people see, as we go through this, you'll see that some of the decisions that were made 100 years ago today, we can see today reflected in the way Bloomfield Township was organized and where commercial activity is occurring within the township.

  116. aye aye opposed nay okay six to one thank you item number 10 board history snapshot september 8 1925 zoning board presented by martin brooke uh township clerk martin you know um got a bit of history here for us yeah yeah i love talking about history and Sean's going to help me do this presentation. You know, sometimes things just line up. And here's a great example of history sort of lining up. Literally 100 years ago today, Bloomfield Township Board of Trustees adopted its first land use planning requirements, or in other words, zoning, literally 100 years ago today. It's in the minutes. It's interesting. And I wanted to review it. But, you know, Bloomfield Township just didn't drop out of the sky in its current form. People were involved. People were advocated for different approaches and philosophies. Sometimes it was easy. Sometimes it was hard. But, you know, I just want to sort of recognize that and help people see, as we go through this, you'll see that some of the decisions that were made 100 years ago today, we can see today reflected in the way Bloomfield Township was organized and where commercial activity is occurring within the township. So, you know, it's just really important for all of us to be involved and to be here to speak your mind. And, of course, I want that to happen. I think it will happen at 6.30, maybe more than it does at 7. But we'll keep an eye out for that for sure. But Bloomfield Township sort of helped to lead the way on this topic a little bit. You may not know, but zoning or land use rules were. contentious, very contentious at the time, they were unconstitutional as an improper taking of land. But in 1926, so the very next year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the Euclid versus Amber Realty case that zoning was a legitimate exercise of local police powers and the township was sort of on the leading edge of this. So Sean, what's fun too, by the way, is not only did Bloomfield Township have this in its minutes, but it was extensively covered by the Birmingham Eccentric, and so there were articles on this topic. Birmingham Eccentric, for a bigger and

  117. and where commercial activity is occurring within the township. So, you know, it's just really important for all of us to be involved and to be here to speak your mind. And, of course, I want that to happen. I think it will happen at 6.30, maybe more than it does at 7. But we'll keep an eye out for that for sure. But Bloomfield Township sort of helped to lead the way on this topic a little bit. You may not know, but zoning or land use rules were. contentious, very contentious at the time, they were unconstitutional as an improper taking of land. But in 1926, so the very next year, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the Euclid versus Amber Realty case that zoning was a legitimate exercise of local police powers and the township was sort of on the leading edge of this. So Sean, what's fun too, by the way, is not only did Bloomfield Township have this in its minutes, but it was extensively covered by the Birmingham Eccentric, and so there were articles on this topic. Birmingham Eccentric, for a bigger and better Birmingham, it says there on the tagline. Friday, August 14th, the state announced some additional regulations that allowed local power to control platting. At this time, platting, a lot of plats were coming to the township board and the neighborhoods were popping up all over the place, and the questions were what could go where, what commercial sites should be where, and the state started to act on that. August 14th, Birmingham Eccentric notes the state's plat requirements are more, are going to be more stringent. And then, just shortly after, next, again, the Birmingham Eccentric, Thank you for allowing us to be able to move from here, as we continue to see some of the ways that we have to continue to communicate with this Thank you, Managergt, for your up-to-by- Judah We've got this together today and you're going to do the other thing. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. says, look, of course, subdividers are rushing for plat approvals. Not only did the township see an increase, but throughout the state, in anticipation of this law going in effect, subdividers were submitting plats pretty aggressively throughout the state. And then the next article, September 11th, less than a month later, by the way, township board seeks compliance with new plat law Thank you. Thank you. because a few days earlier,

  118. there were articles on this topic. Birmingham Eccentric, for a bigger and better Birmingham, it says there on the tagline. Friday, August 14th, the state announced some additional regulations that allowed local power to control platting. At this time, platting, a lot of plats were coming to the township board and the neighborhoods were popping up all over the place, and the questions were what could go where, what commercial sites should be where, and the state started to act on that. August 14th, Birmingham Eccentric notes the state's plat requirements are more, are going to be more stringent. And then, just shortly after, next, again, the Birmingham Eccentric, Thank you for allowing us to be able to move from here, as we continue to see some of the ways that we have to continue to communicate with this Thank you, Managergt, for your up-to-by- Judah We've got this together today and you're going to do the other thing. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. says, look, of course, subdividers are rushing for plat approvals. Not only did the township see an increase, but throughout the state, in anticipation of this law going in effect, subdividers were submitting plats pretty aggressively throughout the state. And then the next article, September 11th, less than a month later, by the way, township board seeks compliance with new plat law Thank you. Thank you. because a few days earlier, the township board adopted a zoning ordinance or land use rule concerning plats. That, by the way, happened less than a month after the state law changed. So that's a pretty fast and dramatic decision. But the board of trustees adopted a rule that says no plats showing business frontage intended to be used for stores, oil stations, factories, amusement enterprises, which at that time included anything that was like alcohol or even soda pop, soda fountains, shall be approved accepting the following districts. And the said districts are listed on the next slide. Okay, whatever. Those are the places they listed. By the way, we'll go on to the next slide, Sean, if you wouldn't mind. So this is where they are in the township. And they're spread around, you can see. And I'm going to do a couple more slides which show, help us to make a connection between these locations that are in the township. that were defined 100 years ago today for commerce and what's generally there today. These plat rules only allowed commerce to occur at those sites but didn't require it. So next slide, please, Sean. So my favorite is 13 at the bottom there, 13, that's Dodge and Bauman Roads.

  119. because a few days earlier, the township board adopted a zoning ordinance or land use rule concerning plats. That, by the way, happened less than a month after the state law changed. So that's a pretty fast and dramatic decision. But the board of trustees adopted a rule that says no plats showing business frontage intended to be used for stores, oil stations, factories, amusement enterprises, which at that time included anything that was like alcohol or even soda pop, soda fountains, shall be approved accepting the following districts. And the said districts are listed on the next slide. Okay, whatever. Those are the places they listed. By the way, we'll go on to the next slide, Sean, if you wouldn't mind. So this is where they are in the township. And they're spread around, you can see. And I'm going to do a couple more slides which show, help us to make a connection between these locations that are in the township. that were defined 100 years ago today for commerce and what's generally there today. These plat rules only allowed commerce to occur at those sites but didn't require it. So next slide, please, Sean. So my favorite is 13 at the bottom there, 13, that's Dodge and Bauman Roads. Took us a while to figure that one out and Opdyke there, I'm sorry, that's not Opdyke. Woodward? What are we talking about, 13 still? Over in Long Lake? Up and down the right there, 13. Yeah. It was Dodge Road at that time. Oh, 13. It's not Dodge, it's Adams now. Yeah. But it was Dodge Road, 1925. Bauman Road, we couldn't find any map at all, but at the corner there where 13 is marked was a large lot of land owned by the Bauman family. So what we anticipate, we expect that that's exactly where the Dodge Road and Bauman Road's intersection was located. 12 is also interesting. There's Opdyke Road. We know where that is, of course, and it's at the intersection of Opdyke and Hammond Road. Hammond owned a large part of that land. There was no Hammond Road we could find on the maps, but that's our swag really as to where Hammond Road might have been. Isn't Hammond out in Rochester? There are Hammond Lakes and there are other Hammonds. There's a Hammond Lake in West Bloomfield. Alright, yeah, thanks so much. Yes, yes wonderful. And now, there's that. Yep.

  120. So my favorite is 13 at the bottom there, 13, that's Dodge and Bauman Roads. Took us a while to figure that one out and Opdyke there, I'm sorry, that's not Opdyke. Woodward? What are we talking about, 13 still? Over in Long Lake? Up and down the right there, 13. Yeah. It was Dodge Road at that time. Oh, 13. It's not Dodge, it's Adams now. Yeah. But it was Dodge Road, 1925. Bauman Road, we couldn't find any map at all, but at the corner there where 13 is marked was a large lot of land owned by the Bauman family. So what we anticipate, we expect that that's exactly where the Dodge Road and Bauman Road's intersection was located. 12 is also interesting. There's Opdyke Road. We know where that is, of course, and it's at the intersection of Opdyke and Hammond Road. Hammond owned a large part of that land. There was no Hammond Road we could find on the maps, but that's our swag really as to where Hammond Road might have been. Isn't Hammond out in Rochester? There are Hammond Lakes and there are other Hammonds. There's a Hammond Lake in West Bloomfield. Alright, yeah, thanks so much. Yes, yes wonderful. And now, there's that. Yep. That's where your calling can occur, by the I-75, with number 12. Yeah, exactly. And 11, by the club. So we also, I defined a commerce area, see number 11, right in the center of the city of Bloomfield Hills. How could we do that? Which at the time was really part of the township. It was part of the township. Woodward Avenue and Long Lake Road. I used to work at that corner. City of Bloomfield Hills didn't exist at that time. Not that time. Not quite that far back, in a previous life. No, when I was in advertising, we were in that building where the big, I think it's now, the big buildings on the southwest corner. We were in those old carriage houses where, when you went down Woodward, you saw the little ticker tape. There was the stock brokerage, like old school ticker tape thing. It was right out at the edge of the road, but we were a set of old carriage houses that made like an L shape. And my advertising office was in there until they were developing the property and it blew up by accident. So, of course, 10, Woodward Avenue, Long Lake Road, lots of, you know, businesses and amusement at that location. 12, in fact, is presently zoned.

  121. That's where your calling can occur, by the I-75, with number 12. Yeah, exactly. And 11, by the club. So we also, I defined a commerce area, see number 11, right in the center of the city of Bloomfield Hills. How could we do that? Which at the time was really part of the township. It was part of the township. Woodward Avenue and Long Lake Road. I used to work at that corner. City of Bloomfield Hills didn't exist at that time. Not that time. Not quite that far back, in a previous life. No, when I was in advertising, we were in that building where the big, I think it's now, the big buildings on the southwest corner. We were in those old carriage houses where, when you went down Woodward, you saw the little ticker tape. There was the stock brokerage, like old school ticker tape thing. It was right out at the edge of the road, but we were a set of old carriage houses that made like an L shape. And my advertising office was in there until they were developing the property and it blew up by accident. So, of course, 10, Woodward Avenue, Long Lake Road, lots of, you know, businesses and amusement at that location. 12, in fact, is presently zoned. It's not residential. There's a, I think there's a memory care, you know, unit, facility around where 12 is. But, yeah, so next slide, Sean, please. One, one. One is West Maple and Cranbrook Road. I mean, there are, what, three banks there and a little commercial spot. So the three corners that are in the township all have commercial activity at that location. And otherwise, you would think it's very neighborhood-oriented and then, boom, there's this little spurt of activity. Horton Road, I mean, that was my commute for 10 years. There's nothing there. Why is that noteworthy? This, it was, the board 100 years ago today adopted a required, a rule that permitted development there. It didn't require it. So if the plat was submitted and didn't ask for commercial activity at that location, then there wasn't any. Yeah, because there's never, I don't think there's ever been anything commercial there. Nope. It didn't require it. It just permitted it. So, next slide, Shawn. Yeah. And there's some other locations that are of interest. Number six, bottom left there, Indian Trail and Town Line Road.

  122. It's not residential. There's a, I think there's a memory care, you know, unit, facility around where 12 is. But, yeah, so next slide, Sean, please. One, one. One is West Maple and Cranbrook Road. I mean, there are, what, three banks there and a little commercial spot. So the three corners that are in the township all have commercial activity at that location. And otherwise, you would think it's very neighborhood-oriented and then, boom, there's this little spurt of activity. Horton Road, I mean, that was my commute for 10 years. There's nothing there. Why is that noteworthy? This, it was, the board 100 years ago today adopted a required, a rule that permitted development there. It didn't require it. So if the plat was submitted and didn't ask for commercial activity at that location, then there wasn't any. Yeah, because there's never, I don't think there's ever been anything commercial there. Nope. It didn't require it. It just permitted it. So, next slide, Shawn. Yeah. And there's some other locations that are of interest. Number six, bottom left there, Indian Trail and Town Line Road. So, Town Line Roads were everything, were always the roads between the townships. So, we immediately looked at, okay, Town Line Road between West Bloomfield and Bloomfield, well, we know where that is. And then we had to try to find Indian Trail Road, which took a while. We found a map from 1925 and could identify Indian Trail Road. It went all the way to the Town Line Road, but doesn't today. It's only a small portion there. But there is a little Indian Trail Road. Trail Road there. Eight is interesting that was defined in the ordinance as Square Lake Road at the Square Lake Country Clubhouse. Kind of a vague spot. I'm presuming it might be there forever. Clearly it's not because it it took us a long time to find out where Square Lake Country Clubhouse was. AI didn't know, Google doesn't know, but we did find another old map that indicated it was between south of Square Lake Road and north of Turtle, I'm sorry, Square Lake Lake and Turtle Lake in that area there. So exactly where the Clubhouse was we could identify, but we could identify where that Country Club was. Square Lake and Talleriff, of course that's where, you know, that's like

  123. Number six, bottom left there, Indian Trail and Town Line Road. So, Town Line Roads were everything, were always the roads between the townships. So, we immediately looked at, okay, Town Line Road between West Bloomfield and Bloomfield, well, we know where that is. And then we had to try to find Indian Trail Road, which took a while. We found a map from 1925 and could identify Indian Trail Road. It went all the way to the Town Line Road, but doesn't today. It's only a small portion there. But there is a little Indian Trail Road. Trail Road there. Eight is interesting that was defined in the ordinance as Square Lake Road at the Square Lake Country Clubhouse. Kind of a vague spot. I'm presuming it might be there forever. Clearly it's not because it it took us a long time to find out where Square Lake Country Clubhouse was. AI didn't know, Google doesn't know, but we did find another old map that indicated it was between south of Square Lake Road and north of Turtle, I'm sorry, Square Lake Lake and Turtle Lake in that area there. So exactly where the Clubhouse was we could identify, but we could identify where that Country Club was. Square Lake and Talleriff, of course that's where, you know, that's like downtown, you know, Bloomfield Township. But so there you go. This, just looking at these, you can see that that the board met a hundred years ago and within a month after the state allowing additional greater control over platting acted to protect them. Yeah, but what time did they meet at? Exactly. That I don't know. Okay, do some more digging. No, that's fascinating. Thank you. During the daylight. Yeah, they don't. They made electricity. Okay. They don't say actually what time they met in the minutes. Okay. But they met, so yeah, here we are today. We still see the impacts of those decisions. 100 years ago martin thank you for presenting that welcome i enjoyed it anyway nice history lesson thank you thank you okay let's move to uh item 10a mark you were uh want to review approved board minutes of august 25th uh yes i i went back and i looked at um uh the comments by uh dirk regarding best practices and um it looks like uh uh those best practices that were discussed

  124. was. Square Lake and Talleriff, of course that's where, you know, that's like downtown, you know, Bloomfield Township. But so there you go. This, just looking at these, you can see that that the board met a hundred years ago and within a month after the state allowing additional greater control over platting acted to protect them. Yeah, but what time did they meet at? Exactly. That I don't know. Okay, do some more digging. No, that's fascinating. Thank you. During the daylight. Yeah, they don't. They made electricity. Okay. They don't say actually what time they met in the minutes. Okay. But they met, so yeah, here we are today. We still see the impacts of those decisions. 100 years ago martin thank you for presenting that welcome i enjoyed it anyway nice history lesson thank you thank you okay let's move to uh item 10a mark you were uh want to review approved board minutes of august 25th uh yes i i went back and i looked at um uh the comments by uh dirk regarding best practices and um it looks like uh uh those best practices that were discussed during the meeting are uh um and he explained why the township wasn't following them so i just wanted to um uh clarify what best practices uh michael had mentioned um that we're following that are inconsistent with um or different from what dirk was saying about uh investment following principle and the um budget and accounting act i don't think there's anything in the minutes that is there a specific spot in this you you think should be changed no i wanted to clarify some comments that were made um regarding best practices i brought them up and uh there were statements regarding the audit and um uh druck bekeleg's comments i think Thought were forthright that he made earlier this year and I just wanted to Understand what the other best practices that we were following that were not highlighted by dirt What was the date and time that he made those comments?

  125. dirk regarding best practices and um it looks like uh uh those best practices that were discussed during the meeting are uh um and he explained why the township wasn't following them so i just wanted to um uh clarify what best practices uh michael had mentioned um that we're following that are inconsistent with um or different from what dirk was saying about uh investment following principle and the um budget and accounting act i don't think there's anything in the minutes that is there a specific spot in this you you think should be changed no i wanted to clarify some comments that were made um regarding best practices i brought them up and uh there were statements regarding the audit and um uh druck bekeleg's comments i think Thought were forthright that he made earlier this year and I just wanted to Understand what the other best practices that we were following that were not highlighted by dirt What was the date and time that he made those comments? I'd have to go back and look at there are two meetings in particular There were both both meetings were at the cable studio facility. I'd have to look up the date All right, would you get those dates to us? And then I'll call Dirk and maybe bring him in so we can clarify that No, I was just wondering what best practices Because he said we weren't following some we weren't following all the recommended practices No, I think you've made those accusations. I don't remember Dirk saying best practices are not required Yes, he did he did and they're optional. We had other great practices that comply with the law right and this best practices are defined by you've used in that instance you used the Michigan Township Association the problem with that is There's twelve our townships and most of them are teeny weenie with the budget no employees The budget manual and is from the state of Michigan That's different which is fine talking about I'm talking about and I'm just moving I want to move on from this because this is not an immense All right, I mean right I make a motion that we approve the minutes of August 20 then okay The only other

  126. What was the date and time that he made those comments? I'd have to go back and look at there are two meetings in particular There were both both meetings were at the cable studio facility. I'd have to look up the date All right, would you get those dates to us? And then I'll call Dirk and maybe bring him in so we can clarify that No, I was just wondering what best practices Because he said we weren't following some we weren't following all the recommended practices No, I think you've made those accusations. I don't remember Dirk saying best practices are not required Yes, he did he did and they're optional. We had other great practices that comply with the law right and this best practices are defined by you've used in that instance you used the Michigan Township Association the problem with that is There's twelve our townships and most of them are teeny weenie with the budget no employees The budget manual and is from the state of Michigan That's different which is fine talking about I'm talking about and I'm just moving I want to move on from this because this is not an immense All right, I mean right I make a motion that we approve the minutes of August 20 then okay The only other thing I want to ask is okay we have a we have a motion with support and thank you if you'll just send us the date and time so we can go back and look at Dirk comment would appreciate it okay I will get you that info the other question I have is the vote tallies for yes and no were not recorded in the minutes so we don't the past which item the it just says recording all of them yeah but who voted no and who voted yes I thought in the past when we didn't do a roll call almost never do right so we have we have motion we have support all in favor say aye aye opposed for a this is 10 a all in favor are you mark did you vote no I I okay I'm approving the minutes I asked for clarification okay I think we just did it so seven it's so so I voted and I assume everybody voted yay on that yes seven to nothing okay and then mark you said item number D or yes B replacement oh yeah okay D I put B but it's D right the boiler boiler boiler boiler boiler replacement okay yes go ahead I didn't notice anything regarding I do know there

  127. thing I want to ask is okay we have a we have a motion with support and thank you if you'll just send us the date and time so we can go back and look at Dirk comment would appreciate it okay I will get you that info the other question I have is the vote tallies for yes and no were not recorded in the minutes so we don't the past which item the it just says recording all of them yeah but who voted no and who voted yes I thought in the past when we didn't do a roll call almost never do right so we have we have motion we have support all in favor say aye aye opposed for a this is 10 a all in favor are you mark did you vote no I I okay I'm approving the minutes I asked for clarification okay I think we just did it so seven it's so so I voted and I assume everybody voted yay on that yes seven to nothing okay and then mark you said item number D or yes B replacement oh yeah okay D I put B but it's D right the boiler boiler boiler boiler boiler replacement okay yes go ahead I didn't notice anything regarding I do know there are some schools that have sold their old boilers to refurbishers and they remove them free of charge did we look at that for that replacement price you um i i'm not going to find it and i can check with noah for you on that okay and we'll take a look and and i can get back to you on that one sean will you make a note of that too for me please okay and this item of course it doesn't affect that one way or the other this is just the purchase of a boiler right which happened to be the lowest price by far right but i'm happy to look into that yeah i mean if we can get some money for it or someone will remove it for free okay so motion motion motion for d to award 48th district court for their replacement support support all in favor say aye aye okay thank you and then um item excuse me it was uh uh f is that right yep payroll and vouchers okay mark go ahead so uh my standing objection stands so no okay is there a motion to approve so moves and support all in favor say aye aye opposed nay okay six to one thank you and having said all that no more historical lessons yet if not done i think we want today adjourned

  128. replacement okay yes go ahead I didn't notice anything regarding I do know there are some schools that have sold their old boilers to refurbishers and they remove them free of charge did we look at that for that replacement price you um i i'm not going to find it and i can check with noah for you on that okay and we'll take a look and and i can get back to you on that one sean will you make a note of that too for me please okay and this item of course it doesn't affect that one way or the other this is just the purchase of a boiler right which happened to be the lowest price by far right but i'm happy to look into that yeah i mean if we can get some money for it or someone will remove it for free okay so motion motion motion for d to award 48th district court for their replacement support support all in favor say aye aye okay thank you and then um item excuse me it was uh uh f is that right yep payroll and vouchers okay mark go ahead so uh my standing objection stands so no okay is there a motion to approve so moves and support all in favor say aye aye opposed nay okay six to one thank you and having said all that no more historical lessons yet if not done i think we want today adjourned we can move for it so you and thank you thank you it